assassination

[stoic needle]

ascend

[weary marten]

in dungeon, how are you using the quantum device ? on pull to get the stats or as execute for pure dps ?

[stoic needle]

stats

[weary marten]

ok thanks

as soon as up ? or keeping for critical moments ?

[limber lion]

Right away on cd as much as possible

[weary marten]

ok thanks

[plain onyx]

Poisoned Katar or Lethal Poisons for M+ ?

[balmy condor]

both fine

katar is a little better in aoe

poisons in single target

so it's a little bit of a give and take

[deft rampart]

is dauntless duelist bad for council?

[stoic needle]

Nah it resets when they die

[deft rampart]

oh sweet

[mint brook]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination WA's:
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)

[mint brook]

What you guys using for tracking dots on multiple targets? Any decent recommends? I'm using Luxthos as a base, but no multi target tracking, sadly

[balmy condor]

tracking through nameplates

I find tracking multi-target through weakauras to be a janky unreadable mess

[loud niche]

whispyr do you know what we do for pvp? alacrity vs exang?

[balmy condor]

no clue

depends on the burst I guess

if you're trying to combo someone, exsang probably okay

[drifting river]

which of the 3 guides is recommended the highest?

[balmy condor]

all of them have the same info

[bronze fiber]

I use a stoplight system for my name plates for example 8 seconds left on rupture light blue nameplates and it keeps getting darker and darker as that rupture winds down

[sweet fable]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination WA's:
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)

[dawn ivy]

@bronze fiber where did you get that

[heavy skiff]

https://youtu.be/0eetowtZtOQ

They linked it here a few days ago

I think this is ehat he uses

[thorny pond]

Any necro sins here? Just wanna ask how you like it in raids and m+.

[balmy condor]

it's pretty good

[thorny pond]

Feely wise? Obviously I've seen the numbers wanted opinions on how you liked it

[balmy condor]

it makes m+ openers kinda hectic

otherwise fine

[chrome night]

im on the verge of switching necro from fae necro seems really good in pvp

[drowsy parcel]

its really fun for raid fights where you get to utilize sbs proper

like council and slg

[strange python]

if its anything like outlaw then it's a significantly different playstyle

[thorny pond]

Venthyr is fine just kinda fire forget. Necro seems interesting to play. Sims close enough on ST for me

[balmy condor]

it's basically just like another garrote tbh

at least in m+

if you play subt, and are used to triple gar from stealth

[thorny pond]

I love garrote

[balmy condor]

it's basically that

has a similar feel at least

[hollow venture]

The 30 yard range on spike is a nice touch as well. You should be in melee sure but hectic things happen

[runic terrace]

!opener

[bronze fiber]

Justruss YouTube very good

[slow marsh]

I thought about going Necro for stonks but someone said it melts your brain so I will stay venthyr mega haste build

[balmy condor]

it's kinda brain melt when you open on aoe and are playing mfd

if you're playing vigor it's not quite as bad

but juggling mfd and sbs is problematic

[molten harbor]

Ok, so logs show people are taking internal bleeding talent, but that is not actually being used right?

[drifting river]

do many people take non-outlaw rogues to keys? or am i best off just biting the bullet and finally learning outlaw for keys?

[balmy condor]

correct

[drifting river]

havent played anything but Sin since like um... wrath?

[molten harbor]

Sin Rogue has been super fun in keys now that I know what I am doing. Super worth trying

[balmy condor]

it's actually less damage than just using an envenom usually

[molten harbor]

@balmy condor Tyty

[drifting river]

and havent touched my rogue at all since late legion either way

[balmy condor]

most people won't notice or care, but if they're idiots then they'll pepega and go "why no outlaw? outlaw? sin? why sin? sin bad?"

[thorny rose]

Then you can send them here and whispyr will set them straight

[balmy condor]

[shy dust]

Tbf

youll definitely look worse off

[drifting river]

ok so i dont need to really care what covenants is best for both sin and outlaw, and just go with whatever feels best for me for sin

[shy dust]

playing sin in keys

might get kicked after invite

but it is what it is

Play what you enjoy

[drifting river]

my main is a SP.. im use to not getting invited to begin with lol

[cobalt flame]

Just name your rogue "outlaw" and you can say that u are outlaw even in assa spec

[thorny rose]

Yeah and go full pirate mog

[cobalt flame]

And always drunk, like bags filled with alcohol only

Jesus, just imagine if they did the drunk screen effect as a seasonal m+ affix

[hollow escarp]

bring horrific visions affixes as M+ affixes

[cobalt flame]

Leaden foot affix and I can guarantee you i will have Exactly 0 dungeons that season

[drifting river]

leaden foot + sanguine.. highest key completed.. 4

[hollow escarp]

is leaden foot the jump one?

[drifting river]

its the stop moving one

[hollow escarp]

[drifting river]

the longer you move the higher it stacks and the slower you go

[hollow escarp]

yeah, not sure if I like that

bring more rewarding affixes though

[cobalt flame]

Leaden foot, sanguine, spiteful

Lets go

[nova flax]

is elaborate planning better than blindside?

i see a ton of rogues on lgos running it

[hollow escarp]

it's good if you can have good uptime on it

but should sim it

[strange python]

It is better on certain fights

The dps increase is minimal

[hollow escarp]

on sludge might be big because it's another damage amp

[strange python]

For instance it’s optimal on sludge as you have small but v large dps jncreasss

So if you set up right you can blast

With vend shiv the envenom buff pot

[hollow escarp]

I wanna try it on Inerva, I overcap energy with IQD, lust and flag buff

and when blindside procs, it doesn't help either

[strange python]

I don’t run iqd

Don’t trust it

[hollow escarp]

I tried it today

[strange python]

Prefer dena trink

[hollow escarp]

it was fun

my 2nd option is skulkers

[strange python]

Plus it’s 3 mins so doesn’t really line up with cds

[hollow escarp]

got denny trinket 220

[strange python]

Yeah me too it sims best for me

[hollow escarp]

yep, on Huntsman 2nd use was a heal on a player

even using the weakaura

I waited for stats, pressed it but it just changed to heal lol

[strange python]

Yeah that’s why I do t really like it

[hollow escarp]

I just got the trinket for the first time last week and I wanted to play with it a bit

[strange python]

I mean it’s good in terms of raid utility

[hollow escarp]

it's interesting in some situations

[strange python]

Like a heal on a player or a mana buff is great

So it’s not a bad trinket at all if anything it’s kinda op for actual progression

But if you wanna parse nah

[hollow escarp]

tbf, even one use is valuable

for dps

[pastel shale]

All about Phial and flayedwing toxin for maximum poison RP

[strange python]

Yes bro

[hollow escarp]

I don't see a reason to swap phial though

[strange python]

Nah I’d only ever swap my phial for a 226 phial

[hollow escarp]

I even like the ooze

but it's boring to play 2 passive trinkets

[strange python]

I hope the valor system carried into season 2 where I can upgrade the stuff I have again to season 2 ivl rather than having to refarm

[hollow escarp]

I'm confident we will have to refarm

[strange python]

That would

Tbh

[quasi scroll]

How does NF feel compared to Kyrian?

I kinda hate Echoing

[strange python]

It feels like you should go venthyr cos you get to walk kael thas sun strider around on a chain leash like a kinky slave

[quasi scroll]

lul

[slow marsh]

Does the nutty NS mfd CT for a bazillion damage build work with zold?

[hollow escarp]

yes

if you vanish at full CP and CT

when mobs are 30-40% hp

[brittle pawn]

how do you get a details window for damage done to a specific target? (sire)

[hollow escarp]

Enemy Damage Taken

I think

and then you shift click

[misty holly]

I tried simming that build in dungeonslice and lost 71 dps 😦

[strange python]

Was what is this ns build

[hollow escarp]

@misty holly it also sims lower for me but in practice I had better overall dps

[brittle pawn]

ah didnt know shift click was a thing

cool

[slow marsh]

I dont think it sims well but in practice it's nutty

I know it's the play with MA leggo but mine is only 190 so

[hollow escarp]

haven't tried it on tyranical

[hollow escarp]

Ceverion is doing 7-8k dps with 190 MA

[slow marsh]

true actually it might be troll on tyrannical

[low girder]

if you right click you can add a bunch of shortcuts to whatever you want

[strange python]

Is that overall?

[hollow escarp]

yes

[stoic needle]

calm down there satan

[strange python]

In which dun

[slow marsh]

yeah it bursts like 20k in packs right

[hollow escarp]

not sure, but even I manage to do 7.2k dps in Sanguine Depths

on my 2nd dungeon with that build

[strange python]

Night stalker and crimson?

[hollow escarp]

yes

[low girder]

you need mfd too

[stoic needle]

it doesnt work nearly as well as with MA because you don't have the CP generation from MA to get bleeds up after spending your opener on CT instead of 3x gar

[strange python]

That with EP and mfd?

[low girder]

unless you end every pack with 5 cps

[hollow escarp]

EP NS MFD CT

[low girder]

^

[hollow escarp]

we lose Iron Wire though

[strange python]

Cos no trip gar?

[hollow escarp]

yeah

[strange python]

How does it work sorry

What should I do

[stoic needle]

mfd > CT from stealth

[hollow escarp]

^

[stoic needle]

fok > rup x2

[balmy condor]

it's worse for sure

[stoic needle]

vanish when CT is in pandemic and repeat

[slow marsh]

hmmm

[hollow escarp]

imagine if we had vanish cdr

or outlaw had CT

[balmy condor]

right, cause outlaw needs more things to have

[hollow escarp]

[low girder]

give sub 50% NS too

[strange python]

What’s the damage like outside the second vanish

[hollow escarp]

well, I'm already getting more value out of that build with shadowmeld

[balmy condor]

well you get giga CT's from every stealth

so

[stoic needle]

the same as zold above 30%?

lol

[balmy condor]

you're just replacing 3 garrotes with 1 CT

[strange python]

And MA over zold for this obv?

[balmy condor]

otherwise it's the same

[strange python]

Cool

I kinda found the 3 garrottes a pain anyway

[slow marsh]

I guess i'll wait to play with it next week

[stoic needle]

yes you need MA to get ruptures up reliably or you'll be energy starved

[strange python]

Ah for the FoK

Fair

[stoic needle]

i've been using the build in torghast before i bring it into a key it fuckin pumps

like even with no stat boosts or anima powers

[slow marsh]

Yeah I watched a certain somebody's vod playing it from last week

[low girder]

build sounds fun with vein rippers tbh

[stoic needle]

i didn't get VR in the runs i did

[hollow escarp]

lol

[stoic needle]

hoping i do this week

[balmy condor]

[low girder]

also i'm running CT on sire and i hate it

damn you ryler

[hollow escarp]

wait

was rupture or garrote better in ST from NS?

[low girder]

it'd be rupture

[balmy condor]

rup

[stoic needle]

it better not be inf*xious

[hollow escarp]

yeah, I've been spacing out and pressing mutilate from stealth

[balmy condor]

EVEN WORSE

[stoic needle]

WHO

[hollow escarp]

was a bit triggered a few days ago when somebody recommended his videos

in Seli's twitch chat

[balmy condor]

a filthy heroic raider I heard

[stoic needle]

what a scrub

[misty holly]

hey Im a heroic raider 😭

[stoic needle]

suddenly my vers/mastery MA is actually p good

my NS CT will be G I G A

[slow marsh]

If I am on bench for mythic does that mean i'm also heroic raider

even if i don't reclear heroic anymore?

[hollow escarp]

WF raiders on bench are still WF raiders

[balmy condor]

yeah but so am I

so

[slow marsh]

sick

[balmy condor]

[stoic needle]

whispyr when is your guild gonna do mythic

the first 4 bosses are basically free

[balmy condor]

uh

next tier maybe probably who knows

[slow marsh]

kek

[hollow escarp]

bro

[stoic needle]

lol

[hollow escarp]

we had 4 trials tonight

[stoic needle]

oh no no no

[hollow escarp]

we wiped on Inerva

let me show you this

[stoic needle]

geometry too hard

https://tenor.com/view/calculation-math-hangover-allen-zach-galifianakis-gif-6219070

[hollow escarp]

no, dps check

[stoic needle]

trials trying to do geometry

[misty holly]

Dude i watched Thundercraig raid leading a mythic Hungering and that did not look "free"

[stoic needle]

really???

[stoic needle]

if you can do H sire you can do hungering

[hollow escarp]

yeah, we one shot it the last 2 weeks

look at our first shriekwing pull

boss had 18k hp

[stoic needle]

[hollow escarp]

when she went in intermission

[stoic needle]

should've been running zoldyck

[spark edge]

!bis

[stoic needle]

[spark edge]

😦

[stoic needle]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/droptimizer

we need a !masterybis command

[timid grotto]

do I always use stratagem in st or do I only use it when I have a specific % of haste?

[stoic needle]

[hollow escarp]

yeah, sim and see what's better

[balmy condor]

and just have it say "mastery isn't bis"

[uncut schooner]

👀

[timid grotto]

aight

[hollow escarp]

[stoic needle]

you can't hide the truth forever, stop lying to the people

[hollow escarp]

a certain streamer told me to stack mastery for m+

[balmy condor]

was it a mage streamer?

[hollow escarp]

[stoic needle]

as usual he was 1/2 right

[misty holly]

we need a !ooze command too. Because ooze are cool

[hollow escarp]

only if you have 226 ooze

[stoic needle]

gang shit

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/316923750073499648/829142539490557952/unknown.png

[nocturne ridge]

damn my brain is so big

hidden blades sire tech

[daring plover]

xd

[snow hamlet]

Bomb is really suck

[nocturne ridge]

it feels really nice to play too

honestly

[stoic needle]

wait is that your parse lmao

[nocturne ridge]

nah i only did 6.4

but

i swear it's the meta for reclears

when adds get absolutely blasted

[stoic needle]

you absolute madlad

[daring plover]

its not

[stoic needle]

kav whats your r1 sire parse dps again

[daring plover]

7.2ish

[stoic needle]

wew lad

im never beating that

[nocturne ridge]

do you play vigor ep?

or just full st talent

[nocturne ridge]

oh you're zoldyck too

?

maybe i should make that

in 4 weeks

[halcyon zealot]

if playing Subterfuge and MA leggo in M+ as venthyr, when would we flag? after the 3 garrotes and CT?

[stoic needle]

before the CT

gar gar gar fok flag ct

[halcyon zealot]

ty good sir

[manic haven]

Pull/2nd/4th for cds on mythic sludge?

[balmy condor]

yes

[stoic needle]

Use vendetta and vanish asap on pull so they line up with the pillar properly

[manic haven]

Cheers boys, is there a most efficient way to use SBS in single target?

[stoic needle]

Whenever possible to replace mutilate

Except the ma window maybe?

[balmy condor]

yeh try to avoid in ma

[manic haven]

So I don’t apply the initial sbs dot until after MA?

[balmy condor]

correct

[prisma crescent]

Pure ST...how far behind is Necro to Venthyr

[plain thistle]

pins

[prisma crescent]

pins is AoE and cleave

[plain thistle]

first one is ST

[prisma crescent]

oh ty

[fallow solar]

How many envenoms are we meant to be slamming into shiv window with DS? Feels like it takes forever to get 5-6 combo points

[stoic needle]

~2

3 if you have high crit and get lucky / ma

[fallow solar]

Yeah 2 seems to be all im getting most of the time, you think a low combo point enveom os worth it for the last few seconds?

[stoic needle]

No

of envenoms in shiv isn't super important

[fallow solar]

Okay i see

[weak horizon]

Can someone take a look at my logs? Shriek was kinda scuffed, so I guess I'd prefer feedback on the huntsman, hd, and inerva if anyone has the time.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/mhzYpckMXyCTQan3#fight=51&type=casts&source=6

[steep reef]

i hope everyone is having a wonderful day here at ravenholdt #assassination channel esp @nimble tartan

[nimble tartan]

thank you kyric!

[obtuse ruin]

@balmy condor sorry just getting back into rogue but do you think assa has the potential damage to beat ww/havoc right now for m+?

[balmy condor]

idk probably

[shy dust]

Potential damage

To beat WW

Whispyr

🧢

[balmy condor]

idk the last time I saw a ww

that was worth a fuck

[shy dust]

WW are up there

With moonkins and fire mage

For damage in keys

They’re nuts

[stoic needle]

You aren't touching ww or dh overall in keys as rogue

[obtuse ruin]

[stoic needle]

Not unless you hack the game and uncap blade flurry

[obtuse ruin]

Oh as assa

[stoic needle]

But you do better st

[obtuse ruin]

Fk outlaw

[stoic needle]

Definitely not as Assassination either

Well technically poisons are uncapped but they're nothing compared to sck and eye beam

[shy dust]

^

[vital haven]

the only thing beating a good WW monk in a key is a fire mage

[solar flicker]

had an actual fucking aneurysm doing council on sin

and another trying to spell aneurysm

[jaunty crystal]

WW is pretty fun too. Started playing it in January.

nothing feels better than getting chi ji procs

[shy dust]

Yeah like last week I did 10k overall on a 15 dos

Obviously it’s a low key

But I highly doubt sin could match that

WW is just insane at aoe

[vital haven]

ye

i havent seen a class burst aoe like ww monk and fire mage do

40-50k dps

its insane

[obtuse ruin]

@vital haven aren’t you the rogue in blur?

[vital haven]

yes sir

[obtuse ruin]

I’ve seen you play from brads streams haha

[vital haven]

oh shit

lol

[fallow otter]

Nope, no chance

[obtuse ruin]

I’m one of his 2 viewers

[vital haven]

nice nice

[obtuse ruin]

Are you playing assa too for m+?

[vital haven]

nah

sin for raid

outlaw for m+

[fallow otter]

This yep

[obtuse ruin]

Dang I can’t take outlaw lol dabling between assa and havoc for keys

[vital haven]

assa and havoc pump in keys dude cant go wrong with either

[tired sparrow]

So ambush is never used as sin, correct?

[heavy trail]

i speced into blindside on an LFR denetharius at 160ilevel cuz wowhead told me to do that. I used it 🙂 was #2 dps somehow by just rolling my keyboard at that point 🙂

[tired sparrow]

imma take that as no since im never running blindside

lol

[heavy trail]

There you go you just answered your own question 🙂 (Whether it was right or wrong haha)

[nocturne ridge]

blindside is generally the go to for pure st

[tired sparrow]

and is it better to sim dungeonslice or 3-5 tar short time no buffs for M+? or factor in both?

[nocturne ridge]

but for m+ yeah just play ep

aka no ambush

[tired sparrow]

yea i never raid on this char

[heavy trail]

I'd watch some updated spec videos and see how some of those guys go it helped a bit for me

[balmy condor]

dungeonslice usually, but you can factor in both

[tired sparrow]

cool, thanks

[strange python]

Sin is still good in 15+ keys

[balmy condor]

so is running 5 tanks

everything is good in 15's

[slow marsh]

kek

what about 16's

[obtuse ruin]

Right now 17-20s is decent I think

[stoic needle]

Seli did 8.5k in a mists

Probably 20+

Cuz it was with naowh

I could go check the key level

Apparently dashing scoundrel might be the secret tech for m+ because poisons are uncapped

[obtuse ruin]

As sin?

[balmy condor]

maybe for DoS with giga pulls

but like

when are you actually getting uncapped pulls consistently

the end of mists maybe?

the end of sang?

[fallow otter]

cough bloodfang

[stoic needle]

Me personally not much but I can only imagine in higher keys

I'll make a 190 eventually and try it out

I've had some 8+ pulls in spires, mists, dos, top, halls and nw

[balmy condor]

target caps are still fucking stupid

[slow marsh]

yep

[stoic needle]

Yep

[balmy condor]

there's so much dumb theorycrafting that needs to exist because of it that makes me lose my mind

[drifting cosmos]

It brings a lot of advantages to specs have uncapped aoe

[balmy condor]

like sure zold is good in aoe, but we can't CT everything and rupture and garrote all the time

so when is it worse

[drifting cosmos]

In old mdi you wouldn't see a lot of ranged specs 😂

[balmy condor]

speaking of which

lets find out

[charred mango]

finally got SLG down, time to return to assas!

[balmy condor]

gz!

[charred mango]

ty!

[balmy condor]

also first check seems to not be looking that good for dashing @stoic needle

[stoic needle]

uh oh

[balmy condor]

it's looking like doomblade 1-2 and zold for untold amounts of targets later

[fallow otter]

Where's the bloodfang at

[balmy condor]

I'll make a spreadsheet and tell you in like 2 hours

some other interesting things

past 6 targets, MA the talent actually becomes competitive with NS, and better, than subt

because it's sin

and we can run literally anything

[fallow otter]

Im interested if bloodfang starts to rise

[gloomy knoll]

mantle guaranteeing full cp from

[stoic needle]

[gloomy knoll]

your aoe

[fallow otter]

With it

[gloomy knoll]

is big nice

instead of for 1 fuckign cp

wtf is sin aoe called again

[fluid radish]

Returning from like, mid BfA, is assassination relatively the same?

[gloomy knoll]

not shuriken storm

fan of knives?

[balmy condor]

10 target for example, the top is zold with NS/CT, as expected

and then whatever the fuck this is

[balmy condor]

yes

[fallow otter]

Fok

[fluid radish]

Sweet, thanks. ❤️

[balmy condor]

seems to be kinda similar to MA so far

[mortal kayak]

make Tiny Toxic Blade meta

[stoic needle]

delete this right now

[mortal kayak]

TTB gang rise up

the silent majority will rule

[stoic needle]

[obtuse ruin]

so I remember someone saying CT should be used for ST too outside of Toxic blade is that still true?

basically maintain garrote rupt and CT and if you got time then envenoms?

[stoic needle]

yes

[worthy geyser]

Any good streamers? For learning :)

[fallow otter]

Kandyland

[grizzled owl]

Hey guys

Can I ask for a little help ?

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/x2M49QKNmtDP1qCh#fight=14&type=damage-done&source=19

I can't seem to figure out what I'm doing wrong but there's definitely something 😒

I normally do around 85% ilvl and I did only 50 at best yesterday, what the fuck am I doing ?

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/x2M49QKNmtDP1qCh#fight=20&type=damage-done&source=19

we had no monk btw

[gloomy knoll]

hey @balmy condor for a zdicks ct build on denny

you think it'd be worth going ep

for pad / parsing purposes

[balmy condor]

[gloomy knoll]

think i'll try it next week

[fallow otter]

Im yet to see log proof that zdick is better

For any reason

Do we have the data yet

[balmy condor]

poison bomb fucking sucks

this just in

it didn't even make the top 5 until 16 targets

[sonic schooner]

16 targets

[stoic needle]

LOL

[balmy condor]

so much for PB uncapped aoe giga poggers

[low girder]

Can you even stack more than like 5 things in it

Just by mob spacing

[balmy condor]

sure

[low girder]

Thing is like 5 yds across

[balmy condor]

is there a target cap on DK mass grip?

[low girder]

Uh

Great question

Nope

[balmy condor]

either way, we simmed 1-20 target in 1 target increment, 20-30 in 2 target increment, and then 35 and 40 target

so we'll really see what happens with this uncapped aoe nonsense

That’s obviously far and beyond reasonable aoe

But still

If we do this we do it right

[low girder]

Just have a gorefiend's every 15s

For better stacking

[balmy condor]

If you don’t care for any of that, subt after like 7 targets sucks, NS CT zold good to go until 20 targets

[sterile sinew]

iqd feels so shit to use man

[gloomy knoll]

does anyone even have it yet?

i didn't have soul ash banked so

swapping to sin i'm just now able to craft one

[low girder]

I've been running it

But I'm also meh

[gloomy knoll]

and it's not really good outside of gimping your overall for p3 prog for sire

or padding

[low girder]

I'll let you know when we kill it

[gloomy knoll]

xd

i'm more interested in using it ot pad

and just go absolutely ape shit in p2

[stoic needle]

imagine not having 235 zoldyck already

[gloomy knoll]

i'll get my 225 next week

[stoic needle]

ur like 2 months late m8

[gloomy knoll]

they won't let me refund leggos

i got like 8 of them shits now

i don't evne want half of them

[low girder]

Finality refund when

[solar hare]

Finality will be good next tier

[stoic needle]

ep ct ns mfd MA with first steps in torghast

it ticked twice and everything was dead

[final star]

More people coming over to the NS CT train

you love to see it

[stoic needle]

I'm gonna play it next week in keys

its so much fun

[final star]

yup it do be like that

[stoic needle]

my vers/mastery MA is actually pretty great for it

everything hits hard

hmm what to do with 2.6k ash...

upgrade celerity? deathly? craft a dashing?

idek

[final star]

or

save it til u can decide

since no cap

[gloomy fern]

8k cap removed?

[gloomy knoll]

anyone know why exactly melee lusts around 815 on denny

[gloomy fern]

because dk armys

most often

[gloomy knoll]

you lose some of it to the 2nd double up as well

oh that's why

fucking dk's

[gloomy fern]

depends on what comp u have

when u lust

[gloomy knoll]

lemme check my log

see if he armied then

[final star]

yes

[gloomy fern]

some just do it because other do it without thinking

[gloomy knoll]

ah yea they do army

at like 8:25

[austere ledge]

whats first leg for switching to sin as necro

[gloomy knoll]

just seems so bad iuno

like why not just lust after the double up

not like u getting another army

hold dat bitch

[gloomy fern]

you mean second combo?

[gloomy knoll]

yea

seems like they using dt + army with lust

[gloomy fern]

well easy that u lose ppl there = lose value

[gloomy knoll]

they get another dt

at 9:25 so that would be in lust

[fallow otter]

It was removed

[gloomy knoll]

if they held army that would be in lust and they don't get another apoc

[gloomy knoll]

true but ideally you don't xd

[kind veldt]

Early p2 of sire, are you guys using vendetta and just ST sire? And throwin a few bleeds on remornia and 1 of the cabalist

[gloomy knoll]

aight so i went over the entirety of melee group

[kind veldt]

Or middle p2 after 4 big adds down

[gloomy knoll]

and everyone be popping cd's around 9-9:20

seems like it'd be better to move lust there

[gloomy knoll]

you wannt keep bleeds up on as many targets as possible sire and remornia at all times cabalists are lower prio depending on how long they live but everything else yea dot it up

and then most rogues use cd's on duskhollow

but it depends on ur push time

[kind veldt]

Yeah, I’ve used CDs on dusk but they come up sometime during cabalist phase

[gloomy knoll]

what time are you phasing

into p2

[kind veldt]

Yeah, I was tryin dot up the far cabalist but it seemed so dog

We actually phase early, I only use 1 use of vendetta

Or else it’s not up for dusk

[gloomy knoll]

gonna have to just figure optimal timers out for yourself tbh

[kind veldt]

Yeah

[gloomy knoll]

if you don't reach dusk at 4 min

i was doing that all tonight

trying to find best flag / vend placements

cuz my raid pushes like 20 seconds early in p1

[kind veldt]

Yeah, we were pushing a bit early too

[gloomy fern]

yeah u wanna stop dps in p1 just for cds to come back for gloom/dusk

[gloomy knoll]

wish my raid did that

we got too much pumpers

though so not an option

[kind veldt]

Yeah, we don’t have issues with killing gloom/dusk

[gloomy knoll]

if your cd's aren't up for dusk just dump em into sire

[kind veldt]

🥲

[gloomy knoll]

that's what i do

[gloomy fern]

but you hold vendetta+flag so u can use it twice in p3 at least

[gloomy knoll]

in p3 you should get flag + vend twice yea

regardless of what ur raid does

[gloomy fern]

use it after first blood price and second combo

for max uptime

[gloomy knoll]

yea i was using it as soon as i hit boss

at like 6:40ish but

seems better to just use at 7ish

after bprice

[gloomy fern]

yeah u wil lose at least 5+ s due to blood price and some due to knockback

[gloomy knoll]

yea

i save shadowstep for the knock

but price loses u a good 5 seconds

[gloomy fern]

i only step blood price

[gloomy knoll]

and your probably gonna hold vend

till after double up anyways

[gloomy knoll]

is bprice more walking than shatter?

[gloomy fern]

ye u can walk away a bit before

and u will land in melee range

basically

[gloomy knoll]

they seem about the same to me

maybe bprice like 1 second longer

but i guess boss does kinda come to you when you shatter

instead of u finding it xd

[gloomy fern]

also our boss snap to tanks getting knocked away pretty often so

u dont lose uptime

[gloomy knoll]

yea that's nice then

gonna start trying that out

i generally use step

on shatters where i'm shiving

other than that i just be walking em

lol

[gloomy fern]

dont forget to cloak first and third price also

inside healers gotta pump tanks

[gloomy knoll]

i just use pot / cookie for that

and generally be cloaking seed bullshit

[gloomy fern]

feint is enough for that

blood price do way more dmg

[gloomy knoll]

yea but if i get a seed

i can cloak that

then help soak too

[gloomy fern]

u dont wanna do that

then range camp come and dies

or what

[gloomy knoll]

not the range soak lmao

i mean drop ranged

go to melee

help soak

take no dam

[gloomy fern]

u can do that with feint also lol

[gloomy knoll]

true

but feint is energy

[gloomy fern]

pretty sure u mitigate mor edmg with cloaking the bp

[gloomy knoll]

energy is dps

[gloomy fern]

u miss boss uptime so it dont affect ur bossdmg anyway

will regen

[gloomy knoll]

true

generally is fine for 1st bp but

i like having it for 2nd double up

just incase dk fucks me and i gotta run into ravage

[glass root]

Guys do we run posion bomb for M+ this week?

[balmy condor]

Probably not

Maybe for theatre

Anything with any sort of aoe is ct for sure

[glass root]

even thou its not a fortified week?

btw just asking if we run crimson tempest and we are necrolord what should be the damage done order like . i mean like this

[balmy condor]

Yes even on non-fort

[balmy condor]

CT wins easily on 2+ targets

And is quite close on 1

There’s very little reason to run pb ever outside of raw single target

[balmy condor]

Seems fine

[glass root]

its for a16 mists did 6.1k with 211 gear

[balmy condor]

Probably also fine

[stoic needle]

6.1k with 211 gear is p good

But it's also mists

[glass root]

sorry to ask so much xd what about my 2nd trinket im using phial right now and [Sinful Aspirant's Insignia of Alacrity]

[balmy condor]

Probably should find a better trinket than the pvp one

But it’s okay

[stoic needle]

I think the 1 min badge is pretty nice for m+

[balmy condor]

Phial is good

[stoic needle]

It's up every pull

[balmy condor]

Yeh it’s iqd but worse

[mossy crown]

is there any way to to sim yourself with with crit instead of haste that I have gemmed/enchanted?

[gloomy knoll]

topgear

[dawn haven]

Would Zoldyck's be better to run on Sire Denathrius prog?

Mythic

[misty holly]

Please tell me there is a NS, MFD, Exsanguinate build.

[balmy condor]

Exsang giga dead

[soft shale]

exsang nope but ns mfd is fine for m+

[misty holly]

But what about like a 20 second 8 target fight.

you could get 2 full CT in with Exsang

[balmy condor]

Exsang giga dead

The moment you allow alacrity to stack

It’s done for

[gloomy knoll]

yea alacrity killed all hopes exsang will ever be a thing ever again

welcome to outlaw life

never gonna use a diff talent for the rest of this games existance

[gloomy fern]

its spelled ahead not dead

[balmy condor]

I mean, not entirely true

Bleed borrowed power comes in

[gloomy knoll]

you mean rogue scaling

[balmy condor]

And we’re vibing maybe

[gloomy knoll]

that'd be fun

i like exsang

[balmy condor]

It would have to be really strong though

[gloomy knoll]

yea exsang is big doodo

rn

lol

[balmy condor]

Like I’m talking probably 1.5-2x stronger than ss kinda strong

[gloomy knoll]

would have to be something that completely buffs our bleeds and poisons only

jesus fuck

[misty holly]

Like a BUNCH of mastery?

[soft shale]

dont worry we will limit break and be able to put 3 or 4 ruptures on 1 mob

SUPER COVENANT

[misty holly]

How much mastery needed to make Exsang great again?

[soft shale]

mastery does not scale really well in % for only bleed

as it also affects poisons

[gloomy knoll]

ngl this would be kinda fun

[soft shale]

it would be super broken

[misty holly]

A legendary that lets you stack additional ruptures sounds fun.

[soft shale]

and fun

[gloomy knoll]

like a legendary or covenant ro soemthing

that lets you put up double bleeds

[soft shale]

like that is a legit 3 min cooldown

[gloomy knoll]

so like you can 2x garrote 2x rupture something 2 ct

fucking god that'd be nut city

[marble hemlock]

@balmy condor

[gloomy knoll]

WE RAMPING

press exsanfg

[marble hemlock]

DS on boots or cloak?

[gloomy knoll]

brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

[marble hemlock]

kinda leaning towards cloak

[gloomy knoll]

would probably time lusts

[soft shale]

dashing?

[gloomy knoll]

around that cd

for snapshot on exsang tbh

[soft shale]

are there any cloak with cir/haste

[marble hemlock]

i have boe cloak

[gloomy knoll]

in dungo yea

[marble hemlock]

and boe boots

with avoidance, both of them

[soft shale]

haha same

[marble hemlock]

so its kinda

[soft shale]

with leech

pog

[marble hemlock]

[hollow gyro]

does anyone know if it's worth envenoming at 4cp with ds during toxic blade if you don't have time to fit another 5-6cp one in?

[balmy condor]

I would agree, if not for 233 cloak right

[balmy condor]

It is not

[hollow gyro]

aight ty

[gloomy knoll]

oh

that reminds me

@balmy condor if my flag is about to fall off and i have say 2-4 cp

do i just ram env for more flag

even tho it's not 5-6 cp

or just take the loss of a lower flag stack

[balmy condor]

No

[gloomy knoll]

poggers

saves me the hassle of making another wa ty

[marble hemlock]

ehh

high haste cloak

ill mostly play dashing in m+

fuck me with haste in m+

[balmy condor]

Kek

Are you playing dashing and Pb?

Or are you sticking to CT

[little sky]

hi, can someone check this SireHC try and tell me where i need to improve? damage is enough but it's not what i want. i want better and i know there is definitely room for improvement. https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/2nRxFz47wjb9ah3g#fight=14&type=damage-done

[soft shale]

now that i think about dashing with device seems lit if you are necro you can crit cap

on poisons only but still cool

[hollow gyro]

ur opener isn't optimal and ur not lining up vendetta shiv and vanish properly

gotta vanish after shiv during vendetta

[supple pelican]

also lots of energy waste

[marble hemlock]

sry had to talk in the inferior spec channel @balmy condor

ct still

maintaining high envenom on aoe isnt really a problem

and that was with me playing zoldyck

so dunno

i do like zoldyck though, means you can vendetta pride and have it back up for execute on boss

but dashing gonna be better on sustained aoe methinks

[icy haven]

or just join the MA NS CT masterrace

[little sky]

practical examples?

[balmy condor]

yeh I haven't seen it yet in sims

[marble hemlock]

playing MA as assa is inting

dont @ me

same as playing mfd

[limber lion]

[gloomy fern]

i like that #1 outlaw parser plays ebb and flow legy

going against the meta

[iron orchid]

same

[limber lion]

Gonna be honest, I enjoy Subt/Vig+Zoldyck more on 20+ as well, the MA build is really good for lower keys though for sure.

[iron orchid]

can't talk about 20+ because our balance drood can't play anymore so we haven't been pushing for 3 weeks, and stopped at 19/20 keys 😢

only one rio point in 4 weeks, from top 5 sin to top 45

[lean rover]

you guys dislike mfd in m+ ?

[outer furnace]

hi guys

is it only assasination rogue that is good in normal raid for castle nathria ?

[limber lion]

All rogue specs are fine, Sub suffers a little bit from bad tuning.

But you can play anything in normal/heroic

And even in mythic honestly.

[outer furnace]

what i have heared assasination is a dot class or i am wrong ?

[limber lion]

Correct

[outer furnace]

is it hard to play it ?

[gloomy fern]

you keep 2 dots up

[limber lion]

No

[outer furnace]

i guess human is the best race for rogue ?

[limber lion]

No

[gloomy fern]

alliance is mecha gnome i think

for pve

[limber lion]

Races don't really matter, but Mechagnome has the biggest numbers for Alli and Orc for Horde

But it's very minute.

[outer furnace]

why is mechagnome best ?

[limber lion]

Big numbers

Like I said.

[gloomy knoll]

mecha busted

big dam

ally has no players though so

[outer furnace]

would you guys say that rogue is better and easyer then shadow priest ?

[gloomy knoll]

good luck finding people to play with xd

sin rogue? probably

sin rogue st is pretty fucking braindead

only gets harder on multi target where u gotta manage bleeds and cd's

def easier than spriest i'd say

[limber lion]

I honestly think that there's very few "hard' specs in the game

[gloomy knoll]

you tried pvping as sub rogue my dude

[limber lion]

Every class is easy and just play relatively different.

[gloomy knoll]

that shit is redic

[limber lion]

Yeh, but we're talking PvE here

[gloomy knoll]

fair

nothing is hard st

some specs can have challenging aoe rotations

but pretty much every st rotation is easy in this game

[limber lion]

PvP is a different field where you need focus, arena1, arena2, arena3 macros and I don't have enough free keybinds for those kek

But ye, every spec is easy.

The difficulty comes from maximizing damage whilst still doing mechanics properly.

[fossil slate]

!oil

[prisma monolith]

Using consumables will increase your damage, however the difference between oil/stone/potion combinations are very minor (within 0.5% of each other). You can sim the difference for yourself by pasting this pastebin underneath your /simc input, in the "advanced sim" section of raidbots: https://pastebin.com/Lbxc7afJ

[limber lion]

Almost every spec is some sort of generator/finisher style of spec.

[outer furnace]

ok so now the hardest question

with spec should i level as ?

for rogue ?

[gloomy knoll]

sub

sub is all frontloaded burst and movement utility

is very good for leveling

[outer furnace]

the thing i am wondering about stealth is

with attack do i open with stealth

[gloomy knoll]

shadowstrike

[outer furnace]

so i dont need cheap shot ?

[limber lion]

No

[gloomy knoll]

you can use it but i wouldn't open with it

it's better used when needed

stuns always helpful

[limber lion]

Honestly don't bother with it for now

[gloomy knoll]

yea only use it if like

something is slapping ur hsit

and just stun it so u take less melee damage

[limber lion]

It's good for PvP but very rarely used in PvE especially if you're planning to raid.

[outer furnace]

i got 2 skills that i cna use in stealth ambush and cheap shot

with one is the best until i get shadowstrike ?

[limber lion]

Wrong spec

You should swap to Sub to level

[outer furnace]

i am sub now

[gloomy knoll]

if you don't have sstrike while leveling

*shadowstirke

but have ambush

use ambush

[outer furnace]

ok

[gloomy knoll]

never lvled a rogue so not sure what they have at what lvl

once you get shadowstirke use shadowstirke tho

[outer furnace]

should i follow wowhead for talent and rotation while leveling or icyveins from 1-60 talent and rotation ?

[gloomy knoll]

i'd prob find a leveling guide and go off that

if you're newer yea

[slow marsh]

Yeah you can use wowhead guide

[limber lion]

They're the same.

But ye, find a leveling guide. Leveling talents are different from end-game pve talents

[slow marsh]

There's a leveling section in them too

[outer furnace]

what

where

can find it

[slow marsh]

https://www.wowhead.com/rogue-leveling-guide

its super basic

but

[strange python]

Hello if I’m coming from outlaw spec and I have 28% crit and 12% haste stat wise would it be not as great to change over?

[limber lion]

Basic is good

[limber lion]

Stats don't really matter.

Don't look at stats. If you want to swap, feel free to swap.

[outer furnace]

sub rogue only use daggers ?

[limber lion]

Also your stats look fine, they're quite similar to mine.

[strange python]

Oh okay I’ve been looking to understand how to use assasination now for ST raids

[limber lion]

Yes or a slow off-hand,. You should probs just use a dagger.

[strange python]

Wait how did you see my stats so quick lol

[slow marsh]

You just posted them lol

[limber lion]

You... said them yourself.

[outer furnace]

can i use 1 dagger main hand and 1 x herlooms sword or mace off hand ?

[fallen arch]

cant mut then?

[slow marsh]

Talking about leveling sub

[limber lion]

Use 2 daggers

[slow marsh]

yeah that's fine

[strange python]

Oh I thought you seen all lol

[fallen arch]

oh sorry sub, my bad

[limber lion]

But yeh, read thw FAQ section in the pins

[strange python]

So mastery should b higher tho then vers if possible

[limber lion]

There's one very important note there that's bolded.

[strange python]

Okay will do

Hopefully it doesn’t become too confusing

[outer furnace]

so when i look at wowhead for covenant for assasination it seems it is 2 good covenant for raiding and 3 x for m+ ?

[limber lion]

Doubt it

[limber lion]

Huh?

[outer furnace]

wowhead say necrolord and night fae is good for raiding

from what i heared kyrian is best

[limber lion]

No.

Kyrian is the worst by far.

You can play anything but Kyrian.

Venthyr is the most popular choice for Assa raiding.

[slow marsh]

I find people make it confusing because they aren't ok with how simple things are

[marble hemlock]

@balmy condor

can you do me a favor?

[strange python]

Hmmm I see lol I’ll have to get another dagger first then I’ll try it out

[marble hemlock]

can you, unironically, do a sephuz sim for assa sustained aoe on different target counts? :x

[limber lion]

[marble hemlock]

what

80 crit/haste/vers/mastery is pretty neat

[limber lion]

Yeh, just an interesting idea. Never heard anyone using or even thinking of using Sephuz.

[marble hemlock]

50% uptime

[limber lion]

Could be good

[marble hemlock]

i mean

it probably isnt

but i also dont know how to sim it properly

as default apl doesnt trigger it

[limber lion]

Probs not Zoldyck level ye but

[slow marsh]

I mean it would have to be at least double the amount or be stackable I feel

[limber lion]

I mean you can sim casting patchwork for it to trigger

And just use multiple targets

Like CPW 5T 1min without raid buffs

[marble hemlock]

you sure it triggers on pw sims?

[limber lion]

Yes

[marble hemlock]

cause herodmg has it at 18dps (which is probably just the stat gain from teh slot itself)

18dps seems... low

[limber lion]

I'm on the phone so it's scuffed

But it's pretty much 50% uptime.

As it should

[plain onyx]

Is it worth it if I enchant 187ilvl gears ? or i should wait till i get higher ones ?

[limber lion]

HD probably did all of their sims on default PW, not CPW.

[limber lion]

Sure if you have the money to spend.

Extra stats is always good.

[strange python]

What’s best legendary for assa as well? Will have to farm out and make a new ring

[limber lion]

Zoldyck for overall, Doomblade for raiding (maybe Zoldyck for mythic prog still)

[strange python]

Hmm I only care for raiding with assa so doom blade I’ll look into

[limber lion]

Yep, most people use Doomblade.

[strange python]

But does it require thinking? Like ma and ks lol?

[limber lion]

No.

It's passive damage all around

Your rotation doesn't change whatsoever

You just do big Envenoms and have an extra passive bleed.

[strange python]

Nice ok time to farm for another dagger and a legendary thank you! Wish I never gave away my 220 wep drop from sire

[limber lion]

:p good luck!

[strange python]

Najd is lashing scars instead of cto?

[limber lion]

Yep

[marble hemlock]

doing pw sim with sephuz and it has 0 uptime

[dawn ivy]

is there an area of wago to look at specific modules like nameplates?

trying to find a better nameplate module but idk where to look

[final star]

Plater profiles @dawn ivy

Other addons are just do it yourself

[limber lion]

Casting Patchwork

Default PW won't work because it doesn't cast anything. You use CPW for interrupt-based sims.

[marble hemlock]

oh true

me dumb

welp

sephuz ~1% behind zoldyck on 6t 2min aoe sim

and thats with shitty

[limber lion]

Ye, I could have just done the sims but I'm still in bed lol

[marble hemlock]

haste pants

[limber lion]

Damn that's actually not far behind

[marble hemlock]

mhyep

[limber lion]

I kinda assumed it would be more

[outer lodge]

spec/legendary change at all this week for tyranical m+?

[marble hemlock]

also funny that SF sims higher than both LP and katar

well, its a long fight, you get a lot of spikes out

[limber lion]

Yep, LP and PK are pretty bad to begin with so def not helping there :p

#buffassa

Jk don't touch it

[frosty smelt]

maybe a dumb qn but do we use crimson tempest as a finisher on AOE or just maintain the bleed and use envenom?

[limber lion]

You just maintain the bleed on all targets, whilst applying rupture to every target that lives the duration and filling with Envenom.

On bigger packs you rarely have any time to Envenom.

[frosty smelt]

im looking at M SLG parses and there are some folks who seem to chain use CT

any idea why they might be doing that