assassination

[slender berry]

for some people CT is actually a gain in p3 sire depending on haste and covenant choice and ofc with zoldyck

[stoic needle]

I've never seen ct sim better than pb for single target but it's been a very minimal loss from what I've seen

It's close enough that it's viable imo

[slender berry]

if youre venthyr with zoldyck it sims really close and in a real sire scenario its almost guaranteed better , if only by a a bit ( only talking about execute dmg ofc)

[hollow escarp]

I just left a Sire pug earlier

got too triggered because they didn't pop hero

[plain jetty]

I just hit 60 with my rogue. In 8.3 I played outlaw in m+ and sin in raids and I’ll probably eventually do that again in SL but since I’m pretty much a fresh 60 which legendary should I craft first that would make me the most versatile? Doom? Master assassin? Or should I start with outlaw focus and go celerity? I’ve read the wowhead guide so I’ve seen the recommended craft orders there what I’m really asking is which spec is more versatile in 9.0.5 and/or is master assassin good enough to have 1 leggo to switch between

[heavy trail]

@slender berry Would you focus on a 190 of both MA/zold for m+ and pvp if I am playing both sub/ass or get the MA up a bit higher first ? Just wanted some opinions since I am fresh 60

[analog shard]

Anyone got good weakauras that focus on bleed timers?

[stoic needle]

If you're going to do more m+ than raid you should craft ma first, if you're going to raid more than do keys I'd craft doomblade or zoldyck first

But you can craft a 190 every week so it shouldn't take long to get the base levels of the legendaries you want

[stoic needle]

Ilvl on legendaries isn't very important

[heavy trail]

isn't zold better for M plus ?

ok

[stoic needle]

Well he says he wants to play outlaw in m+

And MA is bis for outlaw in m+

[heavy trail]

oh ok

[slender berry]

yea whast oshosi said

get multiple legendariey you wanna use first

[wintry steppe]

I use Luxthos’ WA package, they are great for timers.

[thorny rose]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination WA's:
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)

[leaden garden]

Is Dashing Scoundrel a OK option for legendary? I know doomblade is better but dont wanna wait anotehr week for torghast 😮

[slender berry]

dashing scoundrel basically does the same exact thing as doomblade

just a bit worse

[leaden garden]

okay...ill make it 😄

[slender berry]

id wait since soul ash is really annoying to get

but if you dont care about suboptimal dmg go ahead

[stoic needle]

It's actually quite a bit better in aoe

Because poisons are essentially uncapped

[leaden garden]

whats the second best legendary for ST, after doomblade?

[slender berry]

dashing scoundrel

[leaden garden]

aha I see hmmm im just gonna make it I think

just an alt so

[slender berry]

you can check the sims in the pins

for comparisons

[stoic needle]

It's literally like a .15% dps difference

[leaden garden]

oh really

nice

[slender berry]

#assassination message

[plain jetty]

Thanks for the feedback

[leaden garden]

Feet > back for legendary slot right? (Dashing)

[slender berry]

yea

[spice spire]

Yessir

[fallen arch]

Do I make Zoldy or WA as go to m+ leggo? And what slot preferably?

[stoic needle]

Zoldyck pantaloons

[fallen arch]

Ty

[stoic needle]

!guide

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
RH: https://www.ravenholdt.net/guides/assassination-rogue-guide-shadowlands-raid-dps/
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide

[hard basin]

what is best for sludge progress zoldryck or doomblade

[stoic needle]

Zoldyck

[drifting cloud]

uhm what

its db and its not really close

[plain jetty]

Even for progression? 30% more damage in execute is pretty wild

[ruby birch]

execute damage is better for progression

[drifting cloud]

not on sludge

[stoic needle]

I'm sorry I missed 'sludge' somehow

It's DB yeah

[limber lion]

DB 1000%

[stoic needle]

I just read 'progression'

[plain jetty]

Is it because you get more use out of DB on pillars?

[dawn ivy]

yes

[ruby birch]

yes the first 2 pillars are all out of exe phase

[dawn ivy]

the time you hit sludgefist from 30% to 0% is normally very short

[stoic needle]

Sin does pretty damn good pillar damage with DB

You have shiv up for every pillar

[slender berry]

DB also double dips meaning you get extra dmg on the hit which makes your bleed bigger and then the increased damage taken increases the bleed dmg again

[stoic needle]

And vend/vanish up for 2

[plain jetty]

Ok but say hungering or denathrius prog, you’d go zold on those bosses correct? As well as on a boss like SLG or huntsman

And then DB for parses?

[limber lion]

DB for Hungering

Zoldyck on Sire is preference and what your guild needs.

[limber lion]

Some people struggle to kill adds in P2, where Doomblade might help

Some people struggle with the damage check in P3

[ruby birch]

how tf do you get 9 PIs

[plain jetty]

🤔

[polar cape]

Moneyzz

[stoic needle]

💸

[ruby birch]

do people actually pay for PI

[stoic needle]

Yes

[limber lion]

Quite a few do

[ruby birch]

yikes

[plain jetty]

As a shadow priest main, yes they do

[limber lion]

And some guilds have weekly rotation for PI as well

[slender berry]

time to reroll to make some moneyz

[ruby birch]

literally why

[limber lion]

Where one or two dudes get PI's for the whole raid

[stoic needle]

That's the best way

[plain jetty]

Parses

[limber lion]

And then they swap it around next week

[ruby birch]

they get outparsed 1/2 the time by someone with 0 pi buffs

isnt that just pathetic

[stoic needle]

I dig the rotation

[limber lion]

It is

For sure

And I hate it.

[ruby birch]

how fucking sad lmao

[slender berry]

we have private logs so no one really care about PI except that 1 dk who left because he didnt get pi

[plain jetty]

You wouldn’t believe how many people are pugging heroics to get their parses up to try and get into a better mythic guild

[obtuse ruin]

dang do you stream your assa keys? would love to see someone and how they maintain dots and stuff now

[stoic needle]

Turns out getting pi doesn't make you good at the game

[plain jetty]

Ez $$

[ruby birch]

idk what kinda mythic guild looks at parses alone

and let alone parses with like 8 PIs

[stoic needle]

People getting 8 pis are usually doing parse runs that's a little different

[plain jetty]

I’m not saying those are the only people paying

[ruby birch]

the top sin on sludge got 9 PIs

but it was prob a parse run

[limber lion]

Sometimes yeah, but don't really have a schedule or anything set for it. :p

[ruby birch]

still though, im amazed that people actually pay for PI

[thorny rose]

that’s fuckin hilarious tbh

[plain jetty]

I’ve had prot paladins pay me for it when they’re venthyr

[ruby birch]

why

literally why

[lean rover]

what leg are you using generally in m+ ?

[plain jetty]

They wanna get up to 16k dps on pull with ashen hollow

[ruby birch]

how much do they pay anyways

it has to be like some dirt cheap amount of 10k gold or some shit right

[plain jetty]

Yeah usually 8-10k unless I’m trying to parse as well in which case it’s more

[obtuse ruin]

im unable to beat my group ww or his alt havoc no matter how much I try on my assa lol

[limber lion]

For 20+ I just run with Zoldyck.

MA is a lot of fun in lower keys though!

[plain jetty]

But that’s 8-10k a boss. Not for the whole night

[ruby birch]

ok 8-10k makes sense i guess

still pathetic

[plain jetty]

It adds up

[limber lion]

Don't give up, practice makes perfect!!

[lean rover]

thats what i thought (zoldyck getting better and better the higher you go)

[obtuse ruin]

so I have a MA question

[stoic needle]

That's an impossible battle, you will never beat a ww or havoc on overall unless they're dead half the run or just terrible

[limber lion]

The thing is that Zoldyck does decent damage even outside of cooldowns

[obtuse ruin]

if you have all bleeds on lots of adds and then vanish and sit in stealth with the MA buff do they keep critting? KEK

[plain jetty]

What about as outlaw?

[stoic needle]

No

[limber lion]

So it helps your group a lot when everyone has used their cooldowns

[stoic needle]

It's just not possible, they have uncapped aoe and actual burst

[lean rover]

or hold theirs on a pride before a boss indeed

[brazen pine]

MA doesn't reset by vanish at all, right?

[ruby birch]

wym reset

if you enter stealth you get MA back

[limber lion]

Yeah. Like I did some keys with an UDK and Fire Mage yesterday and I was #1 in overall, even though on the big pulls they were pumping hard and I was lower than the holy pala (Ashen Hallow OP)

[ruby birch]

if you mean the short time window between vanish and stealth, no you do not get MA afaik

[safe rover]

usually an outlaw but cant decide whether to make zoldyck or doomblade

[limber lion]

FM just goes to the dumpster without combust. It's still decent if the tank can hold the mobs in the mage's flame patch, but you know, pugs.

[limber lion]

Doomblade for the boys.

Zoldyck is the better overall option for most PvE content though, but if you only want to raid, then Doomblade is the go

[safe rover]

looked at the pins and doomblade didnt sim far behind zoldyck in the dungeon slice

[brazen pine]

Huh, thought there was an issue with not getting MA via Vanish, just normal ooc/ restealth. Didn't ever check ingame tho

[ruby birch]

I am fairly certain MA only applies from actual stealth

vanish activates stealth after like 3 sec

[safe rover]

you dont gain stealth from vanish for a few seconds

[ruby birch]

or a bit earlier

[lean rover]

is there some kind of option to enable on twitch so that it keeps record of past streaming session ? I'd be interested as well to check the way you handle 20+ keys

[ruby birch]

not sure exactly what the window is

[limber lion]

So you're saying that MA activates 3 seconds after Vanish as well?

Because that's not a thing.

[fathom lynx]

MA works with Vanish. Don't know if the dots crit while you're stealthed though.

[ruby birch]

nvm no

MA activates with vanish

[wary ice]

they do

[limber lion]

You can use Vanish and Envenom on the same GCD

[ruby birch]

but vanish doesnt put you in stealth

[limber lion]

And still get MA up

[ruby birch]

instantly

ye mb

[fathom lynx]

Slick

[wary ice]

vanish activates true stealth it has a like no-aggro/cantbeseen effect for a few seconds on activation though

[ruby birch]

just realized i literally vanish for MA damage in pvp

[stoic needle]

its ok, the tooltip is just misleading

[ruby birch]

yes

the tooltip says stealth but vanish counts too

although it doesnt put you in stealth directly

[stoic needle]

#justblizzardthings

[ruby birch]

yeah i know but technically there are other stealth abilities that wont activate MA

[stoic needle]

its because vanish gives you super stealth where you can't be seen by things with stealth vision

[slender berry]

vanishes tooltip is literally "improved stealth"

[ruby birch]

duel and vendetta show vanish im p sure

[stoic needle]

this game is so

[ruby birch]

vanish tooltip isnt improved stealth anymore iirc

ill check

[slender berry]

i just checked

[ruby birch]

it says stealth while in combat

so i guess

[slender berry]

the tooltip of the actual vanish buff you get

says just "improved stealth"

[ruby birch]

oh you mean

the actual buff

[slender berry]

ye

[brazen pine]

Not sure if I'm more or less confused now xD So just for my smoll melee brain, Vanish - > Ambush gives the 100% critchance, y?

[ruby birch]

i see

[wary ice]

yes

[ruby birch]

yes

vanish gives MA

[brazen pine]

Thx guys

Much appreciated

[stiff tapir]

It’s not stealth. Vanish won’t proc the conduit if that’s what you’re asking

You can macro vanish with actual stealth. To re-stealth after you vanish to proc the conduit

[ruby birch]

blizzard spaghetti code

idk what to tell you

both conduit and legendary say "stealth"

vanish procs legendary, doesnt proc conduit

"entering stealth"

[safe rover]

just starting to play ass spec and feelsbad using mutilate with sepsis proc

[ruby birch]

"While Stealth is active"

i really dont fkin know lol

[velvet imp]

new to assa - does it matter much if u use shiv at 6cp or is that heresy? also is it worth holding shiv if u dont have the cp/energy to guarantee 2 envenoms

[exotic orbit]

so... Zoldyk or Doomblade for Raid?

[strange python]

doom

[ruby birch]

try to use shiv before capping, but if you need to use it and capped, just use it

dont hold shiv CD

[velvet imp]

figured as much, thx bro

[ruby birch]

but if you dont have energy then yes i'd say hold

but really, you should always have the energy

[velvet imp]

i havent tried it in a raid situation yet

[ruby birch]

@velvet imp try to use pandemic timers to keep bleeds up so they never overlap with your shiv window

[velvet imp]

just practising on dummies

[stiff tapir]

Question, for MA window. Would you shiv to max cp, vanish, envenom? Mut, envenom ?

[velvet imp]

i mained feral for 2 exp so pandemic is np

[stiff tapir]

For ST

[tired vessel]

Yes

[stiff tapir]

Ty ty

[tired vessel]

Vanish has same cd as Vendetta as well, so make sure to always do it with detta popped and on opener ideally with your covenant ability as well.

[sharp zodiac]

When your target hits 30% with zoldyck is the extra damage already applied to your existing bleeds. Or do you have to re apply to get the damage buff

[ruby birch]

it applies

dots are dynamic

well sin dots afaik are at least

[velvet imp]

vendetta doesnt affect trinkets right

[tired vessel]

I think all are dynamic but crimson tempest iirc, pretty sure CT snapshots still.

[thorny rose]

CT definitely snapshots nightstalker at least

Not sure about other buffs

[visual prairie]

nightstalker buff will get erased if you pandemic any dot cast from stealth

[thorny rose]

But yeah zoldyck automatically applies under 30%, no refreshing necessary

[visual prairie]

same for subterfuge garrote

but that's the only thing

every other buff dynamically changes your existing dots

[plain jetty]

For those of you that mythic raid, have y’all had a problem with getting benched often in this raid tier?

[ruby birch]

not me but i finished raiding pretty early this tier

[plain jetty]

Did you raid as outlaw or assassin

[ruby birch]

neither

i did reruns as sin

[plain jetty]

I think I’m too smooth brain to play sub

[ruby birch]

i feel like im too smooth brained to play sin

even though people say its easier

i just dont know how to play it as well as sub

[plain jetty]

I played sin/outlaw last tier and I’m playing shadow currently so sin makes more sense to me than sub

[visual prairie]

actually exsanguinate creates a "snapshot" like situation as well but nobody uses it

[stoic needle]

honestly sub and sin aren't that different

[velvet imp]

do we hold venthyr ability to line up with vendetta? or use on cd

[young spoke]

Stats are not high enough for it to have good throughput

[stoic needle]

shiv is shadow dance, rupture is rupture, snd is snd(but cttc makes it an afterthought) and garotte is just like snd part 2

[celest ruin]

im torn, is doomblade > zoldyck at m slg?

[stoic needle]

i think zoldyck would be better for slg

[young spoke]

mind saying that last bit in english?

Ah sludge

[stoic needle]

no stone legion generals

[ruby birch]

i think the main difference is sub is punished heavily for not using cooldowns as soon as they come up but you also have to set up shadow dance to line up

with shiv you almost always just press it

[stoic needle]

sure

[plain jetty]

All that makes sense but also I think where I get lost is the shadow strikes I think

[stoic needle]

they have the same basic gameplay but sub just gets punished for fucking up and sin doesn't

[stoic needle]

wdym? shadow strike is basically like mutilate

[plain jetty]

I never really gave sub a fair chance, we were melee heavy at the beginning of this tier when sub was at its peak so I was playing ranged but I kinda miss melee tbh

[ruby birch]

eh, p much, sub's only thing that's tough is lining dance with symbols

[plain jetty]

Don’t you have to be in stealth to use it?

[ruby birch]

also any mechanics = -2k dps as sub

[stoic needle]

not with shadow dance up

[wary ice]

snapshotting is an attribute of the buff, not the dot.

CT doesnt snapshot, NS + Subt do

[plain jetty]

And you said shadow dance is basically shiv?

As far as comparisons go

[ruby birch]

honestly

[stoic needle]

yeah, you press it then spam builders and finishers

[ruby birch]

i think treating shiv as symbols of death

is a much better comparison

they both are on similar CD and you wanna press them as soon as they're up

[stoic needle]

yeah true

[ruby birch]

and that's usually when you wanna be spamming builder + finisher

[stoic needle]

since you dont really hold shiv but you can hold a charge of shd

[ruby birch]

shadow dance is just a self cuck tool

[rain sleet]

Elaborate Planning or Blindside on sludge?

[stoic needle]

ep

[ruby birch]

EP

[plain jetty]

Someone tried to tell me that as sin you’re supposed to hold shiv for soothes in m+

[ruby birch]

in super high keys

probably

in 15s, no

[stoic needle]

[ruby birch]

i dont even think you need to press any CC abilities in 15s

[stoic needle]

not even in super high keys

[ruby birch]

yeah in most keys there's nothing to soothe

[stoic needle]

shiv is one of your biggest dps cds you dont ever hold it

[limber lion]

You press Shiv on CD

[ruby birch]

but maybe in a very particular scenario

[stoic needle]

the only time i'd hold it is the raging thing at the beginning of top

[limber lion]

But you can hold it in m+

[prisma perch]

wait do we use shiv and numbing poison to rage dispell?

[stoic needle]

and the skeletons at the beginning of dos

[limber lion]

There are certain scenarios

The ToP beast that does the AoE which you can stop, the shield on the Decapitator boss in ToP, the 2 big boys in DoS before the Mechagon section

Etc.

It's not a giga loss to hold Shiv in m+.

[stoic needle]

but like every other class that can soothe is better at it than us

[limber lion]

Yeah, but sometimes you don't have those classes.

[plain jetty]

On this guy if You held it for his first cast wouldn’t it line up for the rest till he died

[stoic needle]

then you have bigger problems lol

[limber lion]

Not relaly

Assassination Rogue

[tulip nacelle]

if you need it to live you should hold it

[ruby birch]

what does ass stand for

[limber lion]

I did a +20 ToP yesterday where we didn't have any soothes

[stoic needle]

usually he only casts it once

[prisma perch]

i got flamed bcs I did not use my shiv to soothe the mobs

[limber lion]

And I was the one soothing the shield on the first boss and the tantrum

[celest ruin]

my guild wants me to go outlaw for slg 😦

[limber lion]

And it was perfectly fine.

[ruby birch]

isnt the majority of your damage in m+ garrote, rupture and CT

[stoic needle]

yeah

[limber lion]

And poisons.

And melee

[ruby birch]

oh ye and poisons

but i meant from your abilities

its mostly just the dots

[limber lion]

Well melee is usually #2

But yeah

Poisons show up as 2 different things in Details

[ruby birch]

the insta dmg and dot

[limber lion]

But that's normally the highest damage dealer

When you combine both instant damage and the dot.

[ruby birch]

true

[limber lion]

Like if you sim yourself in Raidbots

It'll show Deadly Poison as your highest damage.

[plain jetty]

Can you blind the big slime on the first boss in plaguefall

[ruby birch]

yes

[plain jetty]

That’s awesome

[prisma perch]

is shiv a soothe or a dmg cd this week??

[limber lion]

It's always a damage cd

But you can use it as a soothe occasionally.

[prisma perch]

but why do i get flamed that we could wipe bcs i didnt soothe with it?

[ruby birch]

using it as a soothe really depends on your comp and key

[limber lion]

You shouldn't do raging week as the only soothe

Because that doesn't work

It's fine on the occasional one mob.

But it won't work if you have to soothe 8 mobs

Because there's still a 25s cooldown

[ruby birch]

maybe on a mob that's a real pain in the ass

only one i can think of is DoS mask guy

though im not sure if you can soothe every mob type

im assuming you can

i guess there's the one at the start of ToP too

[prisma perch]

it soothes only if u use numbing poison right

[limber lion]

Yeah, soothe on that guy is great.

[limber lion]

Yes

[ruby birch]

yes

[prisma perch]

why isnt there anything written in the tooltip?

[ruby birch]

there is

hover over shiv

[limber lion]

There literally is.

[ruby birch]

whenever you have the different poisons active

[prisma perch]

ah on shiv

[ruby birch]

thats sub shiv but sin is p much the same

but with the sin bonus

[prisma perch]

ya that bonus is why i use it with envenom...

[ruby birch]

ye you're supposed to

[stoic needle]

i dont think shiv does anything to the mask guy, its to the skeletons

[ruby birch]

are you sure?

[prisma perch]

it was in my group at klotos SoA

[ruby birch]

i thought i remembered numbing him a long time ago

[prisma perch]

can i soothe him?

[stoic needle]

i'm like 95% sure shivving him does nothing

[prisma perch]

you mean me?

oh nvm

[stoic needle]

no i was talking about the mask guy

[ruby birch]

if numbing doesnt work on DoS mask guy then i dont think it would work on klotos either

but i think it works on them

[stoic needle]

klotos can't be shivved either

[ruby birch]

honestly im not sure, ive never ran SoA on enrage

[ruby birch]

i meant on the mask guy

but like if shiv doesnt work on mask, it sure as hell wont work on klotos

[stoic needle]

wait.

are we talking about the raging affix

[ruby birch]

yes

[stoic needle]

or the mobs themselves having an enrage

OH

[ruby birch]

no

[stoic needle]

yes you can remove that

[ruby birch]

the affix

[prisma perch]

klotos enrage

[stoic needle]

XD

[ruby birch]

okay lmao thats what i thought i was second guessing

[stoic needle]

yeah shiv works on everything with the raging affix

[ruby birch]

@prisma perch you're talking about the affix right

[prisma perch]

yes

[ruby birch]

yes

it works

[stoic needle]

lmaoo my bad

[ruby birch]

nah its all good lmao

[prisma perch]

I see alright thanks

[stoic needle]

i like zoldyck a lot for raging affix because you do lots of damage to the mobs when they're raging and you don't have a dispel up

[ruby birch]

i should run more m+ on rogue, literally have been forgetting everything from playing veng only

[gloomy fern]

aaand we got stygia 2 weeks in a row

[limber lion]

Yes we did

[shy dust]

[gloomy fern]

maybe time to get a guild so i dont miss 3 resets

need my 233 daggers

[willow drum]

How do people get 30% haste off flagellation

[limber lion]

They usually don't.

[willow drum]

oh

[limber lion]

You should see around 21-27 in your opener.

[willow drum]

i can barely get it with hero

[dim temple]

i get around 24

[willow drum]

yeah same

[limber lion]

It's perfectly fine.

[shy dust]

Next week

[willow drum]

is there a max haste window actually? cuz i rly dont know when to go for more crit

[gloomy fern]

100%

[shy dust]

I will buy a PvP weapon and upgrade it to 233

[limber lion]

You should sim yourself.

[limber lion]

Actually 126%

[shy dust]

And Delete it in your honor

[limber lion]

[shy dust]

A sacrifice

[gloomy fern]

thx

[shy dust]

A soul for a soul

[gloomy fern]

i am making rotten to get my last 300 in rbg for 2400

[dim temple]

6 weeks 4 slots of 226 and still no daggers 😦

[gloomy fern]

even though rbgs most often wont hang on my play

[compact lagoon]

is assassin better for PvE ?

or outlow is better

[stoic needle]

sin is better for single target, law is better for aoe

you can kinda play whatever you like though

[compact lagoon]

so sin for raid and law for m+ ?

[stoic needle]

you can play outlaw in raid and sin in M+

its really just whatever you prefer

[shy dust]

It’s not that simple

Some bosses sin is better and some bosses outlaw is better

Though sin is overtuned now so it’s better on like all but 1 boss

[compact lagoon]

can u tell me which legendary should i go for sin ?

[shy dust]

Pins answer this very well

[compact lagoon]

xD

ty for help btw ❤️

[full pecan]

I was looking up dome guides And i can't find mentions about ambush. Is IT worth using in the opener/with Vanish or just with free procs Fromm blindside?

[tulip nacelle]

only with blindside iirc

[frosty cedar]

!mut

[prisma monolith]

Ambush is currently only used from blindside/sepsis proc, not from stealth.
The reasoning is a little complicated, but the most important of them is the difference in combo points on crit (up to 4 vs 3).
Some other factors to consider are increased poison applications, blindside, and doomblade. This is true for all talent combinations and legendaries.

[full pecan]

OH nice, thanks :)

[fallen arch]

!bis

[thorny rose]

they don’t do bis here, the answer is to sim yourself because stat prios change

[fallen arch]

Ah right, thanks

It’s in the pins tho, that’s why I tried

But it’s usually agi>haste>=crit>vers>mastery right?

[ruby birch]

i believe haste is better in ST, and crit is better in aoe

but that should be general stat prio

[ionic vault]

whats the necrolord souldbind setup for ST ?

[rotund oak]

heirmir i believe

[errant plover]

how does assassin compare to outlaw during tyrannical weeks? seems that ST profile would be helpful?

[stoic needle]

yeah it does a bit more ST than outlaw

[ionic vault]

never tried assassination since SL launch but is it me or with Cut to the chase you apply SnD once and never have to worry about it on ST fights?

[stoic needle]

even with M+ talents

[stoic needle]

yeah pretty much

[ionic vault]

interesting

[stoic needle]

also it depends on your covenant but haste and crit are roughly the same on ST with mastery getting some value for AOE

[ionic vault]

!guide

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
RH: https://www.ravenholdt.net/guides/assassination-rogue-guide-shadowlands-raid-dps/
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide

[ionic vault]

which guide is most up to date for rotation?

like, would you open with mutilate is specced with MA ?

[nocturne ridge]

over under how many patches until they just make snd passive / remove it

[stoic needle]

snd is gone in 10.0

[gusty mirage]

All should be up to date now. IV is a safe bet because @marble hemlock is awesome

[stoic needle]

oshostradamus has spoken

[nocturne ridge]

its so pointless that you use it once and never think about it

[stoic needle]

they literally only added it to appease classic andies

and now they're like " ah fuck, this kinda sucks ass"

[gusty mirage]

Better than using combo points to refresh it 🤷🏻‍♂️

[stoic needle]

but they can't just go back on the 'unpruning' like that

so: cttc, grand melee, premed

[nocturne ridge]

sure, but it just makes the opener unnecessarily clunky

and it just feels like shit for sub

[gusty mirage]

I mean they could, but that would entail blizzard admitting they messed up

[stoic needle]

^^^^

they will never do that

[marble hemlock]

im also super lazy

[gusty mirage]

Which from the entire iteration of rogue changes going into shadowlands, is obvious rogue was “oh shit we forgot about something”

[marble hemlock]

so it might not be a safe bet if something changed in the last few weeks

[gusty mirage]

I don’t think much changed in the last few weeks besides like conduit/leggo changes

In the sims that is

I asked about this last week, apparently the trinket is hasted and that wasn’t realized until recently which makes it legit. Been farming dos for it myself

[stoic needle]

i've heard that the range is kinda short and that it's hard to keep up with it when it target swaps at times

but it's worth a shot at least

seems good for m+

[shy dust]

Idk about farming the trinket

It can easily fail if you just move out of range

[gusty mirage]

Imagine actually having a DFV

[stoic needle]

yeah but i don;t think you can choose which target it swaps to

[strange python]

For mythic council do I want to be holding vendetta and shiv for after the first attendant?

[stoic needle]

personally i would but i'll defer to someone who's done more council prog than me

[sinful cradle]

You tell 1 boomkin to convoke the add and you just do the normal opener yepyep

[plain jetty]

How well does sin scale with secondaries compared to the other rogue specs

[stoic needle]

He said the s word

[dawn ivy]

uh oh

you better delete that or dads gonna get the belt

[plain jetty]

The belts nothing new to me

[spice spire]

You can’t fear the weeb avatars, otherwise fear will consume you :/

[plain jetty]

You simply adopted the belt, I was raised by it

[obtuse ruin]

Necro assa in m+ needs too much time to ramp up their damage

Jeez

I’m spending about 12-13 global just to get dots up on 4 adds

And one CT

[plain jetty]

That’s almost every dot class. It’s the nature of the beast

[obtuse ruin]

Mean while the pack is dead because a mage or ww pressed their 4 buttons

I miss spamming EB for the pad

[desert ether]

Hello guys. I wanted to ask a question(s).

Is their a point when I should stop stacking haste. I have 25% currently. But Raidbots is wanting me to take off certain pieces for crit. Which would put me at 21% haste. Just curious if their was a breaking or stopping point. Thanks guys for any info you can give.

[obtuse ruin]

Listen to sims!

They work

[plain jetty]

So my answer isn’t rogue specific but you should always listen to sims

There’s no magic number for secondaries iirc

[obtuse ruin]

Do a stat weight sim and you’ll get better idea how much extra haste you have

[plain jetty]

So if you have too much of one stat other stats will gain more value

[loud niche]

Don't use Stat weights. For 99% of people they're useless, and for 1% of people they're next to worthless.

If you wanna know the best gear you can use listen to raidbots. If you want to play FeelyCraft, do that instead and you'll be slightly worse off

[obtuse ruin]

Maybe. Not too sure about feelycraft yet. Just getting back into assa since early bfa

Back then I ran about 5-7% haste and stacked crit mastery

[stoic needle]

You're rupturing with too much cp

[obtuse ruin]

Which doesn’t look like the move now

[stoic needle]

Rupture with 2-3 cp

[obtuse ruin]

One of the guide said to maintain rupture on 4 targets now

[stoic needle]

You can have 5 bleeds up in 5-6 globals

[loud niche]

Osh don't you mastery stack? I'm sure it's not that bad.

[stoic needle]

It's not targets, it's cp

Rupture at 2-3 cp not 4-5

[warm portal]

j

[obtuse ruin]

But what’s the difference

[timid grotto]

Do I always want to run stratagem on st or do I want to run vigor with low haste?

[loud niche]

You can rupture with very little cp, and if the target dies before the bleed ends, you did good.

[obtuse ruin]

Is this because the mobs die fast?

[stoic needle]

Rupture scales linearly with cp so you don't gain anything by doing full ones on targets that won't even live the full duration

[obtuse ruin]

Gotcha

[stoic needle]

I don't full stack mastery, but in m+ mastery and crit are a bit better than haste but not by much

I try to get an equal amount of haste and mastery

And a lot of crit

[loud niche]

If a target will live for the entire rupture, you want the big one for longevity. If it will die in 15 seconds, just put a wittle one on.

[stoic needle]

I have 30% crit in my m+ set now

[loud niche]

Damn. I'm not at my computer to give numbers

[obtuse ruin]

When you say same haste and mastery what %is that

[stoic needle]

It doesn't matter the % really

[obtuse ruin]

So just going with less than 10% haste is not recommended anymore?

[stoic needle]

Because you don't really have the luxury of choosing exactly

[limber lion]

When was it recommended?

[stoic needle]

I mean, you can do that, but you'll just do less damage on bosses

[obtuse ruin]

During bfa iirc

[limber lion]

[obtuse ruin]

Yeah that’s the trade off

[stoic needle]

My goal is to balance aoe damage and single target damage equally for keys

[limber lion]

It's Shadowlands

Everything is different

[stoic needle]

That's why I try to balance mastery and haste

[limber lion]

You cannot look at bfa

[obtuse ruin]

That’s why I’m here asking 😬

[stoic needle]

But it's not strictly better than focusing haste or focusing mastery, they all work

[loud niche]

608 crit, 598 haste, 168 mastery, 544 vers

[limber lion]

But yeh, stats don't really matter. Just get a good bunch of everything and you're gucci

Simming yourself is the best way to get best results.

Nothing else really matters.

[obtuse ruin]

Dungeon slice works?

[loud niche]

Yes

[limber lion]

And you shouldn't look at stats at all, just get high ilvl items.

[stoic needle]

Yeah dungeon slice is good

[limber lion]

If you're comparing two items of similar ilvl, then you can look at stats

But if one item is a higher ilvl, 95% of the time you want that one.

It's different for rings/necks though.

[stoic needle]

The only thing I would say is to try not to run low crit because that directly affects your cp generation

[loud niche]

Well, if an item had a socket... just sim everything.

[obtuse ruin]

Alright I think I’ll try to get decent crit and just ilvl every other stat

[loud niche]

Raidbots makes your life easy. Just input, and get the answers you desire

[stoic needle]

I got another socket today, not sure what item to put it on

[limber lion]

Imagine not having 6 sockets already

[burnt star]

@limber lion look i got even more then 7k 😉 got slg shoulder yesterday

[obtuse ruin]

I don’t know why but I get the feeling assa will be better coming 9.1 so im jumping ship now 😂 sick of mage ww meta

[burnt star]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/4WSTG1hjWdSA7EYaoDoVVT

[stoic needle]

[loud niche]

I'm maxed on sockets. Just need to hurry up and grind out 2100 to get 226

[stoic needle]

I regret skipping those maw dailies

[limber lion]

You're already ahead of me :''(

I'm only at 7045

[stoic needle]

Ww seems so fun ngl

[burnt star]

i might be ahead on sim, but in reality u are ahead

for now 😉

[stoic needle]

I need to transfer servers and get a cheap 226 bracers and cloak, I think that should put me up to like 225 ilvl

[loud niche]

Someone wanna help my guild git gud and kill slg? Lol

I'm tryina get that CE for the first time.

[limber lion]

[fallow river]

Which covenant is better at mythic+ venthyr or necrolord?

[frigid cipher]

on huntsman, do you dot up the dog after the vendetta window?

or before?

[stoic needle]

Necrolord

I'm gonna swap I think

[limber lion]

This one

[loud niche]

Cev are you CE yet? I feel as if I've asked you this before

[frigid cipher]

kk

[obtuse ruin]

I went necro and SBS is doing about 10% damage for me

[stoic needle]

Yeah sbs is kinda giga

[loud niche]

SBS pretty cool I guess. Just seems like a pain imo.

[stoic needle]

I like mfd

[uneven plume]

Is Sin pretty good for m sludge?

And if so what talents people usually run

[carmine sierra]

How does assassination hold up to outlaw in raids

[stoic needle]

And sbs is cheap cp I can't say no to that

[limber lion]

https://gyazo.com/b6d049eebd2164940032f904faccb21f
Doing P3 RP currently 😛

[stoic needle]

It's definitely better than outlaw, sub may be slightly better if played perfectly but sin is easier. You'd run EP vigor

[limber lion]

Hopefully dying this week.

[stoic needle]

Better single target, worse aoe

[gusty mirage]

We’re celebrating when you get CE, party in #assa

[shy dust]

Sin is a great spec for sludge

And is better than sub

[loud niche]

Woo! GL

[next solar]

also proggin p3 sire atm! necro assass

[loud niche]

GLGL

[royal wasp]

Where does our best dagger drop from?

Dungeon wise

[fallen arch]

Mists

[royal wasp]

!bis

Ty

[fallow river]

Is necro any good at raid then?

[limber lion]

@gusty mirage @loud niche Thanks boys

[limber lion]

Good luck!

[limber lion]

Yeah it's great, slightly behind Venthyr in ST but pulls ahead in 2+ targets.

[fallen current]

necro is poggers

[fallow river]

So necro is new meta?

[stoic needle]

Not really

They're close enough that you can pick whatever you want

There's no one easy answer, sorry :P

You'll have to think for yourself

[solar flicker]

lmao does everyone do this

like draw a fucking visual note

[fallen current]

grug brain no work. grug confused.

[limber lion]

We do have visual notes and google spreadsheets, it's more about doing it in practice.

Actually practicing it and having everyone do the whole P3 shabang a few times really helps, so people don't randomly clip others by running the wrong way

[gloomy fern]

i mean u just put it beside the other group that u ahve decided every time

but some ppl picnic i guess

[limber lion]

Even during our practice, we had people (warlocks) running on top of the melee.

[gloomy fern]

lol

[shut pollen]

someone know why so many top rogues play EP and Vigor on sludgefist despite it simming less than blindside/dedeper strat?

[outer furnace]

holy it is so hard to decide new main
i have been bm hunter main since 15/10/2008 but dont like hunter anymore in shadowlands
everyone say play whatever you like and now i am unsure with class i like more then others any recomend been looked at warcraftlogs and i see that assasination is high up

[uneven plume]

Roll a priest

Go rogue if you like doing m+

[limber lion]

It doesn't sim less when you sim the vulnerability phases.

[frail fossil]

assa is a simple, but slow spec, u need to like maintaining dots and pooling some energy, it has very good ST and low cleave if that's what u're into

[limber lion]

You cannot use conventional simming methods for Sludge because the fight works very differently to what the sim wants to do.

[gloomy fern]

its just feels better to be able to pump more envenoms during pillars thats prolly why

[shut pollen]

mmh that's what I thought I guess you guys are right. Will try that setup myself tonight

[uneven plume]

EP and extra energy during pillar is better than having a chance on blindside happening

I can see why top rogues go ep/vigor now

[shut pollen]

y I guess u lose less dps overall than the amount u get on pillars, making it worth it

[uneven plume]

Yah rather have no rng on pillar phases

Even though blindside does proc a lot imo

[shut pollen]

y it kicks in quite consistently in the enrage phase where u actually need to kill him

and a lot of rogues pop agi despite it being a single target fight

instead of phantom fire

[gloomy fern]

you always pop agi

[smoky ruin]

Can someone link me raid opener/rotation. :))

[balmy condor]

!guide

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
RH: https://www.ravenholdt.net/guides/assassination-rogue-guide-shadowlands-raid-dps/
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide

[signal ginkgo]

Hi guys, this week, with tyrannical do you suggest to use outlaw or Assa (15+)

[fallow river]

Hmm just read a guide that say Nightfae, Venthyr and Necrolord covenant are almost equal, is that true?

[subtle tundra]

whatever you play better/enjoy.

[balmy condor]

Overall, yes

[loud niche]

Always agi? What?

[desert ether]

Yeah. I have read and heard differently.

[gloomy fern]

you got problems if u pop phantom fire tbh

[alpine garden]

Constant buff > RNG

[loud niche]

It's just sim yo self. Whispyr has a sim that tells you what to use

[frail fossil]

so u using sharpenings ye ?

[gloomy fern]

ofc

[loud niche]

S I M I T

[gloomy fern]

? anyone using phantom fire actually trolling

or want to luck on their 1.5min shriek kill for logs

in hc

[balmy condor]

But why

[gloomy rose]

is there any inerva parry mechanic? I just had multiple pulls where I noticed streaks of parries both of abilities and melee attacks while attacking from the back

[solar flicker]

im a gambling man

[desert ether]

I will try out the agility pot tonight. But I have done fine with phantom

[loud niche]

What's your name in game? Where are your logs hotshot

[desert ether]

Yes parses please

[gloomy fern]

if you look at my nick in discord u might find out

[balmy condor]

Mizu is a gamer

[loud niche]

All bosses parry. Stay behind her

[gloomy fern]

and they are private

i only have pug 5 logs from last week cus i left guild

but go look

[balmy condor]

I’m just confused why this is the hill he dies on

[loud niche]

Lol private logs

[desert ether]

Ok. So this conversation is over for me once he said they were private. Back to work I go.

[balmy condor]

I don’t know why you guys are questioning mizu’s logs

[gloomy fern]

oh no dont hurt my feelings

[balmy condor]

Any regular knows that he’s a good rogue

[loud niche]

4/10M claiming authority

[gloomy fern]

i am 10/10

lol

[balmy condor]

River please

[loud niche]

Prove it

[gloomy fern]

i am the only rogue named mizutani

[balmy condor]

Don’t make a fool of yourself

[gloomy fern]

how hrad is it to check

[loud niche]

You're the only one with logs. They show you to be 4/10

[pastel shale]

but people, do we shiv on cd

[gloomy fern]

yes i am showed as 4/10M

[solar flicker]

is he trolling or does he have fetal alcohol syndrome

still dont know

[balmy condor]

Insane

How well established rogues in the discord

Just get questioned

As if Google doesn’t exist

[gloomy fern]

i do however only have 5/10 public logs cus i pugged last week due to not being in a guild atm

without war buffs bad kill timers etc

[loud niche]

Buying 10/10 is the only reason I can imagine making your logs private 🤷‍♂️

[gloomy fern]

you are spot on

[balmy condor]

[solar flicker]

aight hes trolling

[jaunty crystal]

? dude so many guilds private log lol

[balmy condor]

Aight this conversations moving on

We’ve reached nonsense levels

[median igloo]

🍿

[gloomy rose]

I specifically said that I stood behind her

[simple wadi]

She turns a ton for various mechanics

[strange python]

Inerva ends up spinning a lot with various mechanics.

[dawn ivy]

river you gotta chill bruh

[loud niche]

I said stay, and as Diomedes says she turns. If you watch her model you'll see when that happens

[simple wadi]

I’ve noticed similar parry issues @gloomy rose

[gloomy rose]

I wouldnt even notice if I didnt hear the parry sound like 5 times in 10 seconds

[rose trout]

so... when did everyone start calling the spec "sin" or "assa"? what happened to being a MUT rogue?

[gloomy rose]

wasnt it MUT back when you needed to spec into mutilate in talents

[balmy condor]

Time progressed by about 12-13 years

[dawn ivy]

people who didnt play rogue didnt know what "mut" meant

[loud niche]

I've got to chill for what? Someone saying I have issues and that I'm trolling aka flaming me, in front of a community figure mind you, all for using a different pot, then having logs comparable to mine, seems like I'M not the one trolling

[warped temple]

[balmy condor]

[rose trout]

people i played with at the time still called it mut through LK and cata at least. i forget when the talent system was redone

[strange python]

MoP was when we got rows.

[balmy condor]

Redone in cata

But then rows in nop

Yes

[strange python]

Cata was when they brought in the specialisation thing and rows came in MoP.

Wasn't MoP rows per class instead of per spec?

[balmy condor]

Not sure

[solar flicker]

so people who call assassination mut are boomers?

good to know

[gusty mirage]

A wild Ryfie has appeared

[warped temple]

[balmy condor]

Giga, yeah

[limber lion]

[pastel shale]

Assassination is for boomers anyway

[warped temple]

this channel is fun to read 🙂

[solar flicker]

buff sub

[warped temple]

(watching whispyr get a headache)

[solar flicker]

wrong channel sry

[agile hill]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination WA's:
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)

[solar flicker]

cant whispyr mute people

[gusty mirage]

[warped temple]

[balmy condor]

I am able to, yes

[frail fossil]

[spice spire]

I’d be amazed if whispyr doesn’t mute people

[velvet cosmos]

anyone have good cd rotation for sludge mythic? 🙂

[balmy condor]

Pull/2/4

[velvet cosmos]

Perfect, Thanks

[amber mountain]

What does "Pull/2/4" mean? In an uncompressed form?

Just out of curiosity, since I haven't seen that notation

[strange python]

On pull, 2nd pillar, 4th pillar.

[spice spire]

You do your cooldowns on pull? Pillars 2 and 4.

That was supposed to be a comma, apologies

[amber mountain]

ah

[limber lion]

Meaning you hold CD's for pillars 2 and 4 (Including Flag/Covenant, Shiv, Vend and Vanish)

[amber mountain]

Yep 🙂

Just didn't line up the numbers with the pillars. I think I need more coffee

[topaz trout]

i dont understand the flag usage on the opener before vendetta. wouldn't you do vend > flag first to boost the initial flag damage?

[balmy condor]

You can

The difference is mostly irrelevant

[topaz trout]

ok

[stoic needle]

Do crits from dots count towards narrowed gemstones?

Or do they have to be direct attacks

Also what about autos

[balmy condor]

All crits as far as I know

[stoic needle]

Nice

[tired vessel]

Should shiv be used on cooldown or always before a 4-5 point(6 with dsg i guess) envenom?

[balmy condor]

On cooldown

[tired vessel]

Roger. Thank you.

[cerulean nest]

@balmy condor hey thanks for the pooling tip last night. so just so I'm clear, if you're pooling for envenoms between shiv/vendetta/flag windows, how many envenoms are you realistically fitting in between them?

guess im just trying to figure out how to find that balance and not over or under-cast

[final star]

my guild just killed denathrius

and the rogue in my guild got rank 6

on first kill

[limber lion]

Nice :p

[spice spire]

He’s about to be 7 once cev kills it :/

[final star]

[balmy condor]

Idk, that number isn’t something I ever think about

[gloomy fern]

that p2 sbs pad

[slender urchin]

!opener

[cerulean nest]

for sure. guess i'll play around with it

[stoic needle]

As long as none of your dots drop off and you aren't starved when shiv comes up it's fine

The exact number of envenoms will depend on talents and gear

How much crit and haste you have

[edgy sierra]

Does it make sense to hold shiv for the vendetta/vanish combo when running MA? Or do you just slam it on CD even if it won’t be up for vendetta?

[stoic needle]

It's best not to worry about the nunber and just focus on uptimes

You can hold shiv for 12 seconds to line up with vend otherwise just slam it

[edgy sierra]

Love that straightforward answer, thanks

[subtle kiln]

was it you?

[final star]

No I'm not raiding atm

[dull cloak]

i thought u never hold shiv

[final star]

I should be soon™️

[subtle kiln]

are you on the rogue or running something else?

[final star]

I'm playing rogue, boomy and shaman atm

[subtle kiln]

busy boy

[final star]

rogue is 224ish, boomy 223, shaman like 200 since just started it

[balmy condor]

You can hold to line up with vendetta, but usually just slamming it is fine

[final star]

I've done 18 on rogue, 20 on boomy

[gusty mirage]

[loud niche]

Is there a way to see private parses?

[gusty mirage]

If you can get a link to them yea probably

[balmy condor]

People have been saying with venthyr on sire with zoldyck specifically, otherwise no

That’s only a feelycraft so far but it seems reasonable

It’s possible they hit adds on it, got bad crits, bad procs, etc

[plain thistle]

for sure CT will do more damage and PB, but thats not the right way to compare those talents

[balmy condor]

They’re fairly close in single target to be fair

But usually not worth

[plain thistle]

oh, sorry, didnt read your first comment

[loud niche]

anyone know how to see what guild someone was in after theyve left it?

[plain thistle]

wowprogress has a history at the bottom of his page

[limber lion]

wowprogress.com?

[loud niche]

yeppers, thanks

[cerulean nest]

when im using Vigor instead of DS, a lot of times i end up at 4/5 CP. should i waste the extra builder to get to 5, or is 4 fine

[gusty mirage]

4 is fine

[balmy condor]

Always finish max-1

[cerulean nest]

kk

[visual prairie]

if i happen to get to max cp, how do i remove a cp so i can always finish at max-1?

[gusty mirage]

you cut off your right pinky finger and eat it

[visual prairie]

this game is hard

[gusty mirage]

its the price to pay to be the best

[misty holly]

Oh wow... that brings up an interesting design idea. Finishers that use a set number of combo points, rather than all of them.

[gusty mirage]

I'm down to 3 fingers myself

[stoic needle]

the system shock talent would like a word

should be a spec talent not a pvp one

[visual prairie]

doesn't unholy do that?

or something like that

[gusty mirage]

[smoky ruin]

Is there anyway to macro blindside procs to the same button as mutilate?

[gusty mirage]

yeah it requires an addon, but you're better off just making another bind

[dawn ivy]

i think he means a finisher that only consumes an exact number of CP

[limber lion]

!m8ut

!mut

[prisma monolith]

Ambush is currently only used from blindside/sepsis proc, not from stealth.
The reasoning is a little complicated, but the most important of them is the difference in combo points on crit (up to 4 vs 3).
Some other factors to consider are increased poison applications, blindside, and doomblade. This is true for all talent combinations and legendaries.

[limber lion]

Not worth it though

You can, but not recommended.

[stoic needle]

https://www.wowhead.com/spell=198222/system-shock

[gusty mirage]

I can't remember what the command is for the other one

[limber lion]

My boy

[smoky ruin]

ok thanks

[limber lion]

Read what he's saying lol

[gusty mirage]

yeah but that's just a requirement for a finisher sir

[limber lion]

He's saying

You have 6 combo points

[stoic needle]

i mean its the same concept

[limber lion]

You cast a finisher

And you're at 3 combo points

It's not

You still use 100% of your combo points with System Shock

[stoic needle]

oh wait i didn't see the at least

but still the idea is there

[loud niche]

I thought he was saying something like reverb from kyrian

[thorny rose]

isn’t that just WW monk

[gusty mirage]

yes

green rogue

[thorny rose]

no weapons, ewww

[misty holly]

Is it? Maybe I should play a class other than rogue someday lol

[thorny rose]

Lol yeah

[stoic needle]

playing other classes

[loud niche]

!food

!oils

[stoic needle]

jk i'm about to make a ww alt

[gusty mirage]

!oil

[prisma monolith]

Using consumables will increase your damage, however the difference between oil/stone/potion combinations are very minor (within 0.5% of each other). You can sim the difference for yourself by pasting this pastebin underneath your /simc input, in the "advanced sim" section of raidbots: https://pastebin.com/Lbxc7afJ

[loud niche]

what's the command

thanks

[gusty mirage]

^

🙂

[gloomy rose]

anything specific in gameplay with deeper stratagem vs vigor? I simmed it higher, but all of my parses in todays raid are lower, so I am not sure if I am doing something wrong or if its just that we killed everything a little slower

[gusty mirage]

do it, and then zug zug your way to 1800

[visual prairie]

nah, they're all the same. build some resource with these buttons, spend the resource with those buttons

press these cds when they light up

yay melee

[echo geyser]

!guide

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
RH: https://www.ravenholdt.net/guides/assassination-rogue-guide-shadowlands-raid-dps/
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide

[gusty mirage]

is that... ramfam in the assa home?

[echo geyser]

i got 2 daggers now

[loud niche]

Any gearing changes? Also definitely could be a difference in kill speed (slower isn't always worse, just look at top 20 of each boss, i think huntsman is 4:20 vs like 3:40ish and the longer is on top)

[stoic needle]

👀

[gusty mirage]

welcome to the cool kids club sir

[echo geyser]

[gloomy rose]

well yes some changes, but not that many and I simmed the talents with this gear, it felt a bit clunky though, but I guess thats normal with the less energy regen

I thought vigor was recommended so I didnt sim until now and played with it, maybe its also just not being used to it, I guess there is nothing different than finishing on 5+ instead of 4+

[stoic needle]

the one major difference between deeper and vigor is that you can overcap energy easier

[loud niche]

It takes some getting used to, for sure. like with shivs i feel like i get fewer enven's in but oh well

[fathom lynx]

Vigor is less punishing because it feeds you more energy, so you can bump your dots back up quicker. I don't play DS because it's quite a boring talent and I always slam too many Envenoms in Shiv and lose Rupture uptime; I do better with Vigor/MFD because I frequently make mistakes.

Which sort of translates to: you just need to learn how to play the slower pace with the talent.

[cerulean nest]

but if we manage to do that, our pumping will be pumpier?

[gloomy rose]

yeah that makes sense, thanks!

[balmy condor]

That’s what the sims say yeh

[gusty mirage]

you playing better will make your pumping pumpier

[odd hazel]

i just switched to venthyr--- flag is such a pog move.

[supple pelican]

big pog

[gusty mirage]

you really really appreciate the new flag after playing with the old one

[nimble tartan]

i hope everyone is having a wonderful day here at ravenholdt #assassination channel

[echo geyser]

how much are u guys simming on ST patchwerk?

[shy dust]

7.2

[balmy condor]

weird flex

[gusty mirage]

iirc last time it was like 6500 but I'm only renown like 20

[shy dust]

I answered 👺

Not a flex

[gusty mirage]

its kind of a flex

[cerulean nest]

do you hold anything for thrill seeker? or just let it happen when it happens

[shy dust]

Let it happen

[gusty mirage]

just let it happen

[shy dust]

Don’t play around it

[cerulean nest]

fsho

[echo geyser]

is it weird my sudden fractures conduit sims higher than well placed steel / lethal poison /maim?

[cerulean nest]

switched back to venth yesterday before raid and forgot i had to literally click "activate" on my soulbind....

rawdogged the first 4

[shy dust]

That’s not weird at all

[gusty mirage]

[echo geyser]

nice

[gusty mirage]

I did that too dw

I was like wtf why am I doing so little damage

legit played 2 days without activating a soulbind

<- me

[cerulean nest]

yeah literally just realized it today

[echo geyser]

@shy dust was 7.2 with WFT?

[shy dust]

Yes

[stoic needle]

no, but currently SF is bugged and not affected by mastery like it should

[gloomy fern]

imagine actually raiding with wf

so boosted

[shy dust]

50k per boss baby

[echo geyser]

ive only got like 213/200 other potency conduits but my SF is 226

[shy dust]

Though I rarely actually pay for it

[echo geyser]

feels good to not have to farm potency then if sf is the best

[gloomy fern]

do he charge for being in same group?

[shy dust]

Yeah

[stoic needle]

sin potencies r shit

[echo geyser]

@shy dust https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/ecsV7TZUKoA4qaufobho8q 200 behind, i guess my assa setup isnt super garbo then

[stoic needle]

tfw only 6.8k simmer

[shy dust]

I mean

Ofc you won’t

[echo geyser]

this is wft

[stoic needle]

gonna be even less when i necrolord swap

[shy dust]

Have the BiS trinkets

And two 233 weapons

Theres not much upgrades left at that point

Outside of the other 233 pieces

[gloomy fern]

throw away them versa gems

[echo geyser]

yeah ive pretty much only have 1 item in every slot cept for chest

its all outlaw shit

[shy dust]

Just get in the maw

[final star]

vers gems > crit

[gloomy fern]

sim with ds instead of vigor, new gem setup and add socket to ring and ur prolly at 7.2k almost

[echo geyser]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/ehWFiDg6A1Vgky1wiyesSW

my crit is quite low

[final star]

as expected 😛

[echo geyser]

im giga haste vers

literally 0 mastery

[final star]

mastery not great for ST

good in aoe though

[echo geyser]

perfect then

[final star]

idk how good denathrius head/ring would be over what you have too

[gloomy fern]

big upg vs boe ring

[echo geyser]

yeah since its my offspec ive passed 2 rings already

[final star]

yeah that's what I would think

[echo geyser]

head would be good

[final star]

head just on agi alone

and stats aren't useless

[shy dust]

the 5head strat

is go IQD

and get PI crit buff

Its large

👀

[loud niche]

pugging m+ is so draining

[spice spire]

Giga brain play 👀

[stoic needle]

suffering is strength