assassination

[limber lion]

Exactly

That's why you play NS

And not Subterfuge

[grave dock]

I thought 5 bleeds total was the rule

[strange python]

• MFD

[limber lion]

No, I mean Nightstalker.

[strange python]

+mfd so u can open with ct > ns

[limber lion]

5-6 bleeds means that you get more energy than you spend. But you should still rupture everything around you that lives the duration.

[stoic needle]

CT from stealth applies poisons to everything you hit

which is nice

[grave dock]

I meant specifically to the comment about "1 garrote for each target you have"

[raven hollow]

Fuck I hate not running Vigor in Sin

[grave dock]

once you cross 5 bleeds with some combination of ruptures/garrotes/CTs, are you still garroting new targets?

(outside of subt)

[limber lion]

I mean you can literally do gar gar gar fok ct vanish gar gar gar fok rup

[stoic needle]

being able to fok+rup x2 kinda handles the early energy problems

[limber lion]

Yes

You keep your garrote on cooldown 24/7

[grave dock]

that's true, I meant without using vanish

[limber lion]

You press it always

[grave dock]

sure but then your'e just

[limber lion]

When it's available

[grave dock]

at some point you're either using it on pandemic on a target that already has it

or casting it on a new target

and if both have poisons it doesn't matter at that point

[limber lion]

But you're talking about 5 bleeds

And you cannot have 5 bleeds on 2 targets.

Meaning you need at least 3 targets.

Meaning that you can have 3 garrotes up

At all times

Without ever having to overlap one garrote

[analog glade]

Is it better to play Oil + Ap 20 or AP 20 x 2?

[grave dock]

ok I think I didn't phrase that well

[limber lion]

AP x2 usually, you can sim it

!oil

[prisma monolith]

Using consumables will increase your damage, however the difference between oil/stone/potion combinations are very minor (within 0.5% of each other). You can sim the difference for yourself by pasting this pastebin underneath your /simc input, in the "advanced sim" section of raidbots: https://pastebin.com/Lbxc7afJ

[grave dock]

I was specifically responding to "1 new garrote for each target"

in a pack of, say, 5, you probably aren't going to sustain garrote on every target for the whole pull

[analog glade]

@limber lion Ap x2 and agi pot ?

[limber lion]

Yes sir.

[grave dock]

without vanish anyway

[analog glade]

Hmm

[limber lion]

Yeah definitely not, the maximum you can do without any use of Subterfuge is 3.

[grave dock]

okay, that's what I meant, thanks

I haven't played my rogue since kil'jaeden died and I feel like an idiot having to relearn everything

[analog glade]

@limber lion Ty

[limber lion]

[analog glade]

[grim dock]

is Finality even worth looking at

[limber lion]

As an Assassination rogue? No.

It's the go-to legendary for Sub though.

[grim dock]

didnt think so

im having no luck with getting a second dagger

i have my doomblade i need to make dashing scound too

[limber lion]

Why do you want Dashing Scoundrel as well?

Just curious

[grim dock]

isnt it for the cleave fights?

[gusty mirage]

Because he wants to look dashing

[limber lion]

No, you play Doomblade in ST and in cleave fights. You play Zoldyck in AoE and M+.

[limber lion]

[gusty mirage]

Don’t worry, I’ll be here all week with the terrible jokes

[grim dock]

ohh

[limber lion]

Glad to hear it.

[grim dock]

maybe i should just play a survival hunter instead

[limber lion]

[gusty mirage]

I’m just going to play the master class: shaman

Enhancement can’t be that hard, right?

[limber lion]

Surely

[gusty mirage]

Plus I can give my rogue brethren windfury

[limber lion]

Also you'll bring WFT for others

So you'll always be wanted

:p

[limber lion]

Ye exactly

[grim dock]

i did want to make doomblade on shoulders right?

[limber lion]

On Gloves if you're planning to get the mythic SLG shoulders.

If not, then it doesn't matter. Choose whichever.

[grim dock]

yea not planning on mythic

im getting this rogue ready for 9.1 mostly

[drifting whale]

Hi, new in here :3

and new into rogue xd

[limber lion]

Welcome 🙂

[analog glade]

@limber lion If i sims my rogue with no setup, he sims with 2x AP and Phantom Fire 😦

[balmy condor]

hi hi

[limber lion]

Did you try simming with the instructions I gave you?

Or what do you mean?

[subtle tundra]

dont forget to sap every player you see

and dont fight

[limber lion]

You can change what your character uses when you sim.

[balmy condor]

that's the simc default

[analog glade]

Yep

The simc default is better xD

:(:

[limber lion]

It's not better though

You should sim it

Again, here is the link

!oil

[prisma monolith]

Using consumables will increase your damage, however the difference between oil/stone/potion combinations are very minor (within 0.5% of each other). You can sim the difference for yourself by pasting this pastebin underneath your /simc input, in the "advanced sim" section of raidbots: https://pastebin.com/Lbxc7afJ

[limber lion]

But most likely they'll be very close

And you should just stick to stones / agi pot

[analog glade]

I mean i sims with Oil + Ap + PF pot and Ap x2 + Agi pot

the simc default = AP X2 + PF pot

[limber lion]

... Yes?

[analog glade]

the simc default > all

[limber lion]

The default isn't necessarily the best

No.

[analog glade]

😦

[limber lion]

Lol.

No.

[balmy condor]

that's not how any of that works

[limber lion]

Just press this button

And change it to Spectral Agi

[grave dock]

it's kinda hard, sadly

[strange python]

Hey I was Wondering how is necrolord assas For single target any sims done on that ?

[balmy condor]

all in the pins

[strange python]

thanks ❤️

[silent dune]

hey guys

[limber lion]

Sup

[silent dune]

what trinkets are good for M+ ?

[limber lion]

You can find good references in Herodamage.com

Or you can sim yourself using Dungeonslice in the Droptimizer at Raidbots.com

[balmy condor]

lot of good options tbh

[limber lion]

The go-to's are Phial and IQD.

[balmy condor]

phial skulk chain decanter iqd dreadfire

[silent dune]

i have a H Chain, H Dread, 210 IQD and 207 Phial

[stoic needle]

ooze gang

[balmy condor]

yeah so those are all good

[fallen current]

Phial is poggers

[limber lion]

Ooze for people who can't get Phial

[stoic needle]

hey

ooze is hasted

it's good

[silent dune]

took me 30+ runs to get a 184 phial...

had to upgrade from 184 to 207 with valor 😦

[stoic needle]

oh yikes

yeah i dont really recommend upgrading 184 gear

it just costs way too much

[silent dune]

30+ runs though...did 12-15s never seen a drop

[stoic needle]

apparently shadowgrasp totem is pretty amazing

i've looted like 5 phials for some ungodly reason

226 shadowgrasp is nearly as good as hateful chain 🤔

[silent dune]

maybe i'll get lucky tomorrow and get a 226 phial in GV

[carmine fable]

is nf best overall covenant for assa+outlaw ?

[balmy condor]

either that or necro

[subtle kiln]

[silent dune]

i thought venthyr was best for assa

[stoic needle]

Best for single target =/= best all around

Venthyr is pretty bad for outlaw

[limber lion]

He was also asking for the best overall covenant for both Assa and Outlaw.

[stoic needle]

Comparatively

[silent dune]

right. so venthyr for single, necro for aoe? assa that is

[fervent beacon]

Incorrect, venthyr is bis for ST.

[stoic needle]

The delta between single target and aoe performance for both Assassination and Outlaw is lower for Necrolord than for Venthyr

I don't think that's true with the new sbs optimizations

[limber lion]

Ye pretty much

[eternal lance]

yo guys can try veras crit for mythyc plus ?

or just haste

?

[limber lion]

It doesn't matter.

Just use whatever you have.

Versa Crit is fine

Haste is fine

Mastery is fine

[eternal lance]

oww

ty very much

u help me so much

[limber lion]

[eternal lance]

when i start assasn i have 2.1 dps overall with ilvl 211 and now i have overall 5.2

[limber lion]

Happy to help

[eternal lance]

🙂

5.2 is so good

[limber lion]

Good job!

[eternal lance]

for my i lvl u think

Becuse ofu

❤️

[limber lion]

[frail fossil]

gz on the big dam

[gusty mirage]

Cev’s the best, pointed out something to me and my improvement was massive too. CEV FOR PRESIDENT

[eternal lance]

ahaha y

he help me so much

[limber lion]

[eternal lance]

and this guy

[limber lion]

You guys

[eternal lance]

this 2 is awsome

❤️

[gusty mirage]

Whispyr’s dope too until we troll him for too long and he gets cranky

[eternal lance]

haha

[limber lion]

Just happy to see my boys do giga deeeps

[strange python]

Which missives should I grab for doomblade

[limber lion]

Haste/Crit or Haste/Vers

[wooden cave]

Should flagellation be used at 1:30, 1:55ish or on top of vendetta?

[limber lion]

On cooldown, so 1:30

You can try to sync the last Flag cast with Vendetta, as long as you don't miss a cast.

[wooden cave]

So on 2:30 fight its obviously at 2m but on cd is the rule?

[gusty mirage]

Yea

[eternal lance]

trick of the trade

what is this spell

i dont know what is it but all tanks tell me

usit on me pls

😐

[low girder]

it redirects all threat you generate to the target

for 6 seconds

[eternal lance]

😐 what mean

[low girder]

all aggro

if you tricks the tank he gets aggro

during it

[eternal lance]

aaaaa

such a nice

spel

shit

[limber lion]

Yeah it's really good

You should make a macro for it

Which you can spam during dungeons/raids

[balmy condor]

[eternal lance]

what can i use enchant

on my weapons

guys

celestial ?

pr sinful

[limber lion]

Celestial and Sinful is a good combo to go with for most situations.

For M+ Lightless Force might be better, but you're fine if you just put Celestial Guidance on one weapon and Sinful on one weapon.

That's what I do.

[gusty mirage]

But it’s out of love

[wide ridge]

poison bomb or ct for M council?

i'm seeing many people run ct so i guess it's more desirable for the servants right

[limber lion]

Yeah depends on your comp honestly. If you have a lot of AoE already, you don't really need CT.

It's just an extra button on already a hectic fight.

[night atlas]

How many targets does there need to be in order to use Crimson Tempest over Envenom?

[shy dust]

its not particularly close between ct and poison bomb

dont run ct thats just padding and not something sin is meant to do

[limber lion]

1

You use CT outside of Shiv windows, if talented into it.

[night atlas]

Ohhh ok thanks

[low girder]

you keep it up, not just use over envenom, i should clarify

[night atlas]

Right, only use CT to refresh, preferably using pandemic

[low girder]

yep yep

[wide ridge]

even on st?

[low girder]

yes

outside of shiv windows, like he said

[stoic needle]

Running ep on council seems like trolling tbh

[limber lion]

wut

Why would it be trolling

[stoic needle]

Because the extra damage on multidotted targets doesn't matter, unless it's a st dps increase too because of the extra energy from the multidot?

[limber lion]

On Council you should keep other bosses dotted up as well, which means more energy.
More energy = More finishers = More EP uptime

But yeh, you can just sim prio target and see how well compare

[stoic needle]

Yeah in my mind I always thought of the dps increase from EP being from increasing the damage of the dots on extra targets but I didn't consider the way venomous wounds giving you better EP uptime could play into it

[cosmic kelp]

anyone know how the envenom crit + energy works on dashing scoundrel? is it priority target only?

if a fan of knives to apply poison to all 3 council for example for extra energy regen are thye all getting the extra crit or just the target im evenoming

[stoic needle]

It makes your envenoms crit 15% more including the one that you cast to get the buff, and it's energy regen from all poisons on all targets

[cosmic kelp]

oooh

[stoic needle]

It also makes pb crit 15% more

[cosmic kelp]

i would guess poisons on other targets would have their crit increased too then

coolio

[stoic needle]

Envenom is a buff on yourself

Yeah

It's pretty decent, it's better at target swapping and cleaving than doomblade

[cosmic kelp]

I made it regardless of the facts just cause I like more energy

[stoic needle]

Hehe

[fallen current]

Oof. Tried doing a 13 as sin with MA and I’m clearly doing things wrong.

[cosmic kelp]

wowhead and veins dont mention keeping bleeds on extra council members but i see it suggested doing 1 extra or any targets close, is it worth it or is it up in the air?

[stoic needle]

Are you running mfd and ct?

[fallen current]

Vigor and ct

[stoic needle]

Garrotte and rupture on 1 extra target is good

[fallen current]

One of my daggers sucks too only 200 ilvl on it

[stoic needle]

Try running Mfd NS CT

[fallen current]

So that’s some of it

Yeah I’m using NS til I craft zold

[stoic needle]

Mfd+ ct out of stealth for a 50% extra damage CT that applies poisons to everything

[fallen current]

Hm. Ok

[stoic needle]

Then fok > rup > fok > rup

[fallen current]

Yeah

[stoic needle]

It's pretty fun and does really good burst damage

[cosmic kelp]

is PB better always if you're running dashing or can you go CT too

[fallen current]

I’m sure I’ll figure it all out.

Literally first key I did as sin.

5.3 overall but I do like 6.1 as outlaw

Mfd and ct is interesting tho. Didn’t know it applied poisons too

[limber lion]

It's great.

[fallen current]

Will probably use that then.

Just need ash for zold

[limber lion]

You get NS buffed CT and poisons up on everything around you and 2 Ruptures and a garrote for energy regen

MA is fun :p

[stoic needle]

You can run ct too, but the pb synergy is worth considering

[fallen current]

Well now that I know that ct applies poisons I’ll swap to mfd

[limber lion]

It's not the poisons though that are doing the giga damage

It's the CT itself.

And the fact that NS snapshots CT.

[fallen current]

Sure. But it makes it easier to regen energy since poisons are applied

But I’ll give mfd a try.

Can’t hurt anyways

[misty holly]

Spent all weekend queuing for groups trying to finish the last 2 dungeons but got there! What a grind pugging this as rogue 😕

[limber lion]

Grats

[fervent beacon]

Yeah 6/8 of my ksm from pug. Grats tho.

[uneven hamlet]

as a rogue on council, there a way to skip the recital on you? cause u vendetta after the first attendant, and a secs later its the recital, vanish or cloack work on it, or its rng ?

[balmy condor]

you can cloak it

[mortal kayak]

tips for venthyr soulbind/conduits for sin raiding? just swapping specs now so not sure of bis

[balmy condor]

pins

[grave dock]

cannot for the life of me find a WA that properly accounts for NS snapshot on crimson tempest

[strange python]

With cloaking it do you cloak it as it's casting? When it's already out?

[balmy condor]

cloak the damage

[brittle pawn]

16k wipe to slg

someone hold me

[gusty mirage]

[stoic needle]

congratulations

[wide ridge]

do you go that build with MA leggo or zoldyck

[stoic needle]

MA

[wide ridge]

you think zoldyck could work or ma toog ood

[stoic needle]

ma too good

i mean you could probably run it fine but your initial energy generation will suck without MA to get up 2 ruptures

[wide ridge]

since ct snapshots NS, would you 5cp CT then mfd+vanish CT again?

for vanish usage mid pulls

[stoic needle]

you'd MFD > CT from stealth, and try to vanish with 5cp into another CT yeah

MFD > CT, fok > rup > fok > rup, pool cp when ct is entering pandemic, vanish, ct again and repeat

[wide ridge]

when is ct pandemic

how many secs left

is it like 4s?

something like that right

[stoic needle]

3.6

[wide ridge]

CT baseline when?

@blizzard

sin's 50talent row is big sucky

[stoic needle]

honestly

[wide ridge]

i just wish poison bomb did less dmg but was 100% with 5cp

i hate the casino part of it

[stoic needle]

that would be busted

but i get what you mean

it should be guaranteed after a shiv or something

[wide ridge]

80% of the time

it doesnt do anything

your fucking 'strongest' talent row

btw @stoic needle with this NS MFD CT build, do you go nadjia or theo

and what conduits?

if you don't mind

[stoic needle]

theotar with wasteland and lashing

[wide ridge]

wasteland>lethal poisons?

[stoic needle]

the wasteland propriety buff and the haste from flag lines up nicely with the vanish > ct

yeah wasteland is way better than LP imo

if you flag before vanishing your CT will get more ticks from the haste and do more damage from wasteland

and you get lots of stacks on it from MA

if you get an umbrella proc too

whew lad

[wide ridge]

but do you vanish during the 'build up' part of flag then?

i guess so

that makes sense

[stoic needle]

yup

[barren moth]

Whats the standard m+ trash opener ?

And do you run MA leggo or doomblade

PB or CT
Vigor or MFD

Currently finishing dungeons around 5.2k dps want to improve at 226 ilvl

Nightfae btw^

[balmy condor]

doomblade only in top, CT, vigor/mfd both fine

[barren moth]

If you are running MA leggo are you going subterfuge ? If so arent you wasting the first 3/4 globals garroting ?

[balmy condor]

you can go NS with MA

but subterfuge is still fine

it's not a "waste" cause they're still critting

[gusty mirage]

@balmy condor You gave me the simming cooties. I spent like 3 hours today at work tinkering with simcraft to just test our random stuff I had floating in my brain. Am I lost to SimC now?

[balmy condor]

[stoic needle]

one of us, one of us

[gusty mirage]

[severe narwhal]

how many targets does it take for me to use CT just for the impact damage

[balmy condor]

infinite

[tall forge]

In a fight do I want to envenom out of my vanish? for single target

[balmy condor]

usually you'll play deeper strat these days for raids

with MA talented

so you'll have 1 envenom and 2 mutilates

[tall forge]

okay so when I vanish ideally I have 5-6 combo points then enevenom-mutilate-mutilate?

and line it up with vendetta?

[balmy condor]

well vanish env mut mut is actually the same as mut env mut or mut mut env

so it doesn't matter what you vanish into

but vanish should always line up with vendetta by default

they're both 2 min cds

[tall forge]

Ah okay, thanks!

[gleaming stratus]

Hmm Mythic Sludgefist is it worth holding Flagellation for second Pillar or just use on CD Align them for 2nd and 4th

[balmy condor]

hold for pillar

[gleaming stratus]

👍

[ebon thorn]

in m+, is it worth tab targetting and getting bleeds up on several targets, rather than just doing FoK and CT?

[brittle pawn]

.> yes

bleed all the things

[thorny rose]

yeah because your bleeds generate energy for you

[ebon thorn]

yeah ik, was just curious if its worth if the mobs are gonna die within 5-6 seconds or something

[stoic needle]

if they're that low HP it's okay to envenom instead of rupturing or garotting

[primal zinc]

@stoic needle ❤️

[lavish pulsar]

is there an easy way to compare uhhh, Mythic Sire P3 damage with Zoldyck's vs Doomblade?

[brittle pawn]

execute patchwerk sim

[balmy condor]

yeh

execute patchwerk is the way

[worthy geyser]

Hi people! Did NF use to be very good for sin compared to other covenants? I'm new to the spec and from the statistics found on wowranks it's still more people playing NF then venth, and i was just wondering if that is simply because NF used to be very good or if it's something i'm missing

[round harbor]

Can also just look at a bunch of logs and see which is performing better in p3 specifically

[quiet valley]

NF is still decent but was probably the best overall cov before buffs to necro an venth. Likely a lot of people that cba rerolling

[lavish pulsar]

thanks!

[low girder]

it's also still a decent option if you're trying to play both outlaw and sin in a multitude of areas

very middle of the road

[quiet valley]

Also pretty good as sub in pvp

Its a pretty nice cov with a kinda click and forget button plus the mobility of soulshape is great

[fathom swift]

night fae was recommended in a bunch of guides at the start, a lot of people probably picked it based on that then either quit and their characters still get counted, or never bothered to check post patch

[compact pumice]

I think it’s still recommended in the Icy Veins guide

[fathom swift]

[worthy geyser]

Ok, thank you all for the input 🙂

[lofty shell]

IV is a big source of info for a lot of ppl

[balmy condor]

And what’s wrong with recommending fae?

[fallen arch]

What talents / legendary would u guys recommend for Sire heroic progression?

[fathom swift]

depends on ur perspective but

seems worse than other covenants to me

[balmy condor]

The signature ability with soulshape is very useful in all forms of content, including pvp, the ability is easy to use, theres no complicated soulbinds, it performs well everywhere

As an all around recommendation

I see no reason why it’s wrong

[fathom swift]

i think necro probably fits that better but

[tender fjord]

All covs can be recommended cmv

[fathom swift]

i also think its usually better to just give people all the info you can and let them decide, but thats not really something you can do with how guides get formatted unfortunately

[balmy condor]

I’m sure seliathan would be happy to have that conversation with you

But I see no reason why fae is a bad recommendation

[fathom swift]

its not a bad one its just bad that seo and guide formats require a specific covenant to be listed as "best"

not his fault

[tender fjord]

People don’t want all info to decide for themselves. Usually someone wants to know what is “bis” and wants just a single answer

If you want to decide for yourself you are an exception

At least, that is what experience in this disc showed me haha

[balmy condor]

Any pin readers?

[tender fjord]

Hahah the 9.0.5 faq is still in there

That was a hilarious moment of rage 😂

[worthy geyser]

Is outlaw so far ahead on aoe that you almost 'have to play it' in m+?

[warped temple]

no

[worthy geyser]

ok, thanks 🙂

[warped temple]

🙂

[fathom swift]

my experience is that people dont actually care whats bis, they just want to know what covenant wont get them laughed at or kicked from groups for being the "wrong" one

[balmy condor]

🙂

[quartz bear]

!bis

!bis

a bit OT, but does this command work?

[verbal mantle]

it doesnt exist anymore

[lean rover]

are you usually keep playin with nadja when pushing ? or do you swap to theotar depending on key lvl ?

[compact pumice]

I don't think so, considering no answer after you asked it

[verbal mantle]

cause the only answer is to sim yourself

[limber lion]

It was removed because people based their gearing choices on what's bis, causing people to choose items 20 ilvls lowerr from the vault, just because they were "bis"

[compact pumice]

I think bis-lists are good for one thing: some people don't actually know what is currently their bis or sim Droptimizer or similar because they don't put in the effort. I notice it a lot in raids with the loot council option "BiS" which people press without any previous thought or consideration (or for the people who actually know miss out on other stuff).

But I agree though, the answer is always "sim yourself"

problem is people don't do it

[balmy condor]

He’s necro

[quartz bear]

well I do that, but due to the mentioned "BiS" option on loot council, wanted to know if there is an actual list

[balmy condor]

There is

But it’s not public

Not useful

And a waste of time for that purpose

Bis isn’t even bis until you have all the pieces, and even then there’s like 15 pieces that are side grades

[lean rover]

my bad i saw at least one "more or less" fresh log where he was Vent. I assumed he still is

[balmy condor]

It’s actually just a fucking waste to even think about bis most of the time

It’s good for trends and theoretical maximums

And that’s it

And honestly if that’s really really what you’re interested in

Bloodmallet and herodamage do that perfectly fine

[fathom swift]

is it different to just whats on the simc stack rankings cause thats def public

[balmy condor]

No it’s the same but the actual spreadsheet isn’t

[fathom swift]

oh

fair enough

i agree with the idea tho

[warped temple]

🙂

[fathom swift]

bis lists are awful

[balmy condor]

It’s good info for people who actually know what they’re looking for

But the people who know what they’re looking for

Also know where to find it

Without a discord command

[fathom swift]

yeah

pretty much

[gloomy rose]

when running MA is it worth waiting with the dreadfire vessel for vendetta + vanish or just use it on cooldown?

[compact pumice]

It's not affected by MA (nor Vendetta?)

[fathom swift]

i dont believe either of them buff vessel

[compact pumice]

So pop it on CD

[gloomy rose]

oh so the change to the legendary when they made it apply only to abilities also changed the talent or did it never work?

well that makes it kinda easier to use, thanks

[limber lion]

The talent never worked. It was just the legendary.

[plucky sluice]

3 days... 29 mists runs...no dagger.... love it...not 😛

[balmy condor]

I added a point to the faq

For maximum

[limber lion]

[round harbor]

Pvp dagger

[plucky sluice]

i have 1 pvp dagger on ilvl 200... have no rating...dont like the pvp in wow 😦

[shadow helm]

poison rogue

[round harbor]

That's a shame

Pvp is the fastest and easiest way to gear :/

[plucky sluice]

yeah, but i have almost never done pvp and would need daggers tonight for sludge... so 2-3 days learning pvp, finding a mate and getting at least to 1800 is a bit too much xD

[ruby birch]

RBGs

much easier to gear up in RBGs if you're new to pvp

[limber lion]

Yeah RBG's are a free ticket to Rival

[gloomy rose]

depends, I played rbgs quite a lot in the past and still sometimes am triggered at what some people expect of me as a rogue

but definitely easiest of the options

[compact pumice]

As rogue you need to (arguably) perform more than other classes in RBGs, but also can affect the games more that way

[plucky sluice]

maybe i will try next time. but is it possible to get into a rbg group that can manage to get 1800?^^ guild member told me it took him 120 games to get there... which is much time too^^

[plucky sluice]

just look for a team in LFG tool?

[limber lion]

Ye pretty much.

[gloomy rose]

yeah, but it takes a while unless you find a stable group, rogues get invited a lot so its easier than other dps classes, but from certain rating you want to go only with groups around your rating and using voice and that can take a while to assemble and most groups fall apart after one loss

[compact pumice]

Yeah that falling apart after one loss thing is annoying if setting up the group takes more than 30mins sometimes

[ruby birch]

if you're new to pvp, arenas will take much longer than 120 games to get rival in

as a rogue at least

[plucky sluice]

ok thanks to all 🙂 maybe i am lucky in vault too one time.... waiting for dagger sind first january ID but never a weapon... 3 ids ago i got weapon but was outlaw accidently 😦

[foggy ember]

Do you guys recommend farming out quantum device or is it to inconsistent? It doesn't seem that popular on WCL but seems to rank quite high on herodamage

[hollow escarp]

Seli about to play a sin key

[wheat parrot]

Does crits from necro bleed ability benefit our regen?

[limber lion]

No and neither does rupture/garrote crits.

[subtle tundra]

7k overall in a 19 top wtf is this assa dam bro

i did less on monk which is giga broken

[hollow escarp]

what build you played?

it's pretty good damage though

[subtle tundra]

subterfuge

never played the other one

[hollow escarp]

I need to do 2 more keys to have all 10 for vault

gonna finally try Nightstalker

[honest karma]

You gonna go the MA Lego with nightstalker?

[hollow escarp]

I think that's the play

@limber lion have you tried nightstalker build with zoldyck?

I know MfD is essential

in this build

but I already play MfD in m+

[honest karma]

I really want to test it out aswell, what other talents do you go and openers?

[hollow escarp]

#assassination message

Cev summed it up pretty nicely

[weak horizon]

when i'm unloading my burst on a boss in M+ do I crimson tempest and then shiv? Or do I just bust a nut in shiv and then CT?

I know shiv has higher priority than CT, but I'm not sure about on that initial bust

[hollow escarp]

CT outside shiv window

not sure if before or after though

I guess after because you want to have Shiv on CD

[limber lion]

Ah no I haven't. Putting up the initial bleeds would be a harder without the crit and subterfuge. I mean you can always give it a shot, but I don't think that I'd like it :p

[hollow escarp]

true, because you fok more often

and fok is 100% crit

[limber lion]

You get 2 ruptures and 1 garrote out instantly on the opener with MA

So it's pretty decent energy gain

[hollow escarp]

yep

[limber lion]

But without the crit it's gonna feel really sluggish

I just like to blast bosses with MA as well

I might have to give Subterfuge and Zoldyck another round in a bit

[hollow escarp]

gonna have to replace a 226 ring for a 210 MA

[limber lion]

https://gyazo.com/b2594749600f1548e5745061bfd7937f

Here's my setup lel

[hollow escarp]

that's gonna be mine as well lol

[limber lion]

Replacing a 226 socketed Crit/Mast ring as well

[hollow escarp]

no socket on ring yet

[limber lion]

https://gyazo.com/ceb905f15e3e38ab03ab9b6ccf968665
I really need to update my fonts lol.

[hollow escarp]

it's easy fix

[limber lion]

This is what it looks like playing with 4 russian players

[hollow escarp]

don't use default details font

for details

[limber lion]

I don't

[hollow escarp]

it works for me with expressway

I know Fritz Quadrata is not showing russian names

[limber lion]

Yeah, I use Accidental Presidency

But I guess I need to switch

:''(

[hollow escarp]

I changed as well

it's not like I know how to read their names

but looks better

[north basin]

Funny stuff is what russians cant name themselves in english when creating nee char, even chinese can, blizzard have their own ways

[hollow escarp]

I think it's the client

we can't login on russian realms

unless we change client language

but you are right, it's blizzard's ways

[carmine fable]

wich is best potency conduit for raid? lethal poisons or wps?

as nf

[hollow escarp]

for what covenant?

WPS

[north basin]

But chinese have their own clients too. And they have more difficult fonts

[hollow escarp]

most likely

[limber lion]

But what will I do with this second IQD that I just got from the DoS that I did?

[charred wraith]

disenchant in front of the dk

[hollow escarp]

sell it'

[lethal heart]

[autumn sierra]

is there any assa rogue streamers you guys know of the dome

[hollow escarp]

Ryfie

but if you are EU, you will need to watch early mornings

or vods

there are also a few regulars here that stream

[limber lion]

Maybe I should just stream everything that I do

[hollow escarp]

[limber lion]

I just do stuff and people can watch if they care, if not then that's fine

[hollow escarp]

wow streaming is weird, but if you are good in a niche, you can provide nice content

[limber lion]

Yep

[autumn sierra]

which cov. would be the go to for pvp?

[limber lion]

#pvp

[hollow escarp]

venthyr I guess but double check with #pvp

[lethal heart]

if assa only -> necro
if sub only -> venthyr
if you wanna play both -> venthyr

[amber mountain]

Or just go venthyr because they have Theotar

[hollow escarp]

I prefer coffee over tea

[tender sequoia]

would you say that rogue is mainable atm?

like for real mainable?

[vital haven]

yes ofc

[drifting cloud]

[limber lion]

Lol yes.

Every class in the game is "mainable"

[tender sequoia]

no

warlock isnt

[hollow escarp]

big kap

[pastel shale]

[gusty mirage]

well I've been maining rogue since AQ in vanilla, so I'd say yes

[hollow escarp]

usually full dps classes are viable

rogue was a bit weird this patch

[gusty mirage]

BUT WE'RE BACK BABY

WOOOO

[vital haven]

wait

[amber mountain]

I've been maining rogue since beta 🙂

[vital haven]

wdym by locks arent mainable

maybe we can get your definition clear

[hollow escarp]

probably memeing

I'm actually a one-trick rogue by definition

[amber mountain]

I honestly don't know how people get stuff done without being able to stealth and vanish etc

[gusty mirage]

we still love you Kojack

you've come to the correct side

[hollow escarp]

[gusty mirage]

everytime I level an alt I get so tilted because I can't stealth past all the bullshit. Esp early on with all the caves of useless mobs

[hollow escarp]

true

that's why I don't do the maw on alts

also I haven't realized how annoying it is to play without shadowmeld

whenever I play my belf rogue I pop arcane torrent when I wanna meld

[gusty mirage]

it's okay you just needed more energy

[hollow escarp]

true true

[stoic needle]

U wot m8

[amber mountain]

I have alts, mostly so I can fill needs in my guild when it's quiet. But my rogue is always the first I log on with, the first I quest with, and the only one that ever gets caught up on reps etc

[vital haven]

i mean locks arent exactly desirable in high m+

so maybe thats what he meant

[hollow escarp]

that's probably true

even though they are not bad at all

but I can imagine it sucks to find an m+ group as lock

[gusty mirage]

it sucks to find a m+ group for any dps

[hollow escarp]

but when it comes to raids, I know a guild that won't bench their warlock because they have no replacement

[tender sequoia]

yeah thats what i mean

[gusty mirage]

if you want to guarantee a spot in a m+ group roll tank or healer tbh

[tender sequoia]

how will you main a char that is like that

[vital haven]

well

[hollow escarp]

m+ is kind of a side game

[vital haven]

most classes arent super desirable in all forms of content

[hollow escarp]

even though it's pretty big

[vital haven]

like

[solar hare]

Main a vdh and hpal/rsham*

[vital haven]

mages and paladins i think are the only ones

[gusty mirage]

tru

[amber mountain]

You want to guarantee a run in M+, run your own keys?

[gusty mirage]

^

[hollow escarp]

don't try disc priest as first heal experience

[limber lion]

You want to play the game and have fun? Play whatever the fuck you want

[amber mountain]

^

[hollow escarp]

[gusty mirage]

but play rogue so you can hang out with us

we're cooler than all other class discords

just sayin

[amber mountain]

Mostly that

[tender sequoia]

okay bro

[limber lion]

Unless you're pushing for reaaaaaaaaally high keys or competitive raiding, I don't think it matters which class you play.

Just play whatever you want.

Enjoy.

Have fun.

It's a video game

[hollow escarp]

WF rank 4 guild had a rogue in their comp

it's Ashine

but still

[tender sequoia]

i mostly try to be the very best on the world

[hollow escarp]

so I guess if you are an exceptionally good player, you can play at any level your main

[gusty mirage]

you can do that as rogue, if you play at a high level you can get a spot in a CE guild

[limber lion]

Then maybe you can be the very best rogue in the world

As long as you don't get PI's

You'll be gucci

[gusty mirage]

unless you're trying to get 100 parses in heroic as assassination, then Cev's just going to be selfish and keep them to himself

😠

[hollow escarp]

but I almost cringe when I hear people saying rogue is not viable in world 3000-4000 guilds

[stoic needle]

Except mages and monks

[gusty mirage]

monks are kinda meh in pvp

but yea

[hollow escarp]

mages are actually good in all content

[mellow pier]

Rogue is a lot more useful now than it was prior to 9.0.5 tbf

It’s dmg profile is better

[hollow escarp]

except for sub

[mellow pier]

True

[vital haven]

RIP

[tender sequoia]

what is PI?ß

[ruby birch]

power infucktion

[stoic needle]

[ruby birch]

infusion*

[vital haven]

DEC 2020-FEB2021

[tender sequoia]

what does that mean?

[ruby birch]

its a priest buff that increases haste

[gusty mirage]

priest buff that gives you 25% haste

[hollow escarp]

it's an external dps buff

you don't want it

[mellow pier]

I still have never liked sub since they gutted it in legion lol

[hollow escarp]

it's tainted

[gusty mirage]

Speak for yourself sir

[ruby birch]

rumors say if you get PI'd you get transported into asian servers

[mellow pier]

I got a PI on sunking this week

[gusty mirage]

I got a taste and now I can't live without it

[ruby birch]

idk if that's true though

[limber lion]

I do fight for those spots. Haven't done a proper run in a while because I've only done boost runs

[gusty mirage]

that's only if you get more than 3 per boss

[limber lion]

Need to do one tomorrow

And see if I can get myself up there again

[hollow escarp]

last time I got spoiled with PI was on Dentathrius LFR while farming renown

[slender berry]

eveer since one of our dks quit the game because he didnt get pi , pi has become a taboo topic

[mellow pier]

DK players have warrior brain

[amber mountain]

last time I got spoiled with PI was when our priest started letting out a string of curses because he targeted the wrong person >.<

[gusty mirage]

LOL

[hollow escarp]

[amber mountain]

even better? the priest is my brother, so I just said "thanks"

and our boomie laughed and laughed (and then cried)

[lean rover]

melee + plate sucks brains out of every player

[ruby birch]

we're all brothers in bindings now, thief

[mellow pier]

Yeah

Rets have a brain imo tho

Good ones anyways

[hollow escarp]

[vital haven]

must be nice

[hollow escarp]

LFR

[vital haven]

to CHEAT at the game

[hollow escarp]

10 min fight

[tender sequoia]

and why is PI avoidable?

[gusty mirage]

[tender sequoia]

why should it be avoided?

[gusty mirage]

I'm not even upset

[amber mountain]

So... my guild is the furthest from a progression guild you could get. Bunch of casuals who like to raid and M+. We have a few people who just can't stay on top of mechanics or do decent DPS. It's been a good week though. First 10/10N, then 2/10H, and I timed my first 2 M+10's last night

[hollow escarp]

it's not

the thing is that if you get a top parse with PI it will be marked

[amber mountain]

granted, with things like my bro PI'ing me instead of the boomkin that does double my DPS shrug

[tender sequoia]

ah koay

[hollow escarp]

look at Shriekwing parses

[gusty mirage]

PI doesn't do much for boomies tbh

[hollow escarp]

rank 1 has 6 buffs

[tender sequoia]

so getting pi is bad at showing off

[hollow escarp]

6 PIs

in 3 min fight

[gusty mirage]

nah, if you play assa you take any PIs you get

[hollow escarp]

on progression you wanna use PI on the class that brings the most value

[tender sequoia]

i hope i can have fun with this assa

[lean rover]

to be fair pi on boomy is like throwing it away

[gusty mirage]

which is us because we're special snowflakes 🙂

[tender sequoia]

i only play it cause its a venthyr main

[mellow pier]

DK warlock hunter

[hollow escarp]

I would like to think that sin is a good target

but doubt

[mellow pier]

All better options for PI

[hollow escarp]

yeah, what Nurux said

[mellow pier]

So if you’re guild has 3 of each

[gusty mirage]

PI DK on pull, but outside of army it doesn't really have the impact people think

[mellow pier]

You’re far behind on the list

[hollow escarp]

unless you are on farm

[mellow pier]

Even then

[hollow escarp]

and your priest is stockpilling gold for next patch

[mellow pier]

U PI the hpally

Better option

[hollow escarp]

imagine PI-ing a dps on Sun King

[gusty mirage]

I get PI every pull, and I'm not even ashamed by it

[mellow pier]

@hollow escarp I got it this week for boss dmg

[gusty mirage]

I never asked for it either

[hollow escarp]

[mellow pier]

Speed strat

[gloomy rose]

I played resto / balance druid until just recently, then levelled my rogue and damn, sin is fun af, it really reignited my interest in the game somehow, I didn't expect it

[hollow escarp]

wait, what speed strat

can you 1 phase?

[mellow pier]

No

Skip 2nd shield both times tho

[hollow escarp]

ahh

[mellow pier]

Just fast kill speed

[hollow escarp]

we're far from that

we get 2 shields each phase

I think 3 in last phase

sometimes

[gloomy rose]

always played combat, but since they changed it into outlaw it felt bleh, so wasn't motivated to level rogue, but its pretty fun, no regrets

[gusty mirage]

[tender sequoia]

is assa good at getting penta kills?

[hollow escarp]

we didn't wipe either

[mellow pier]

We want to do SLG speed but we also don’t want to reprog... or ever kill the boss again

[gusty mirage]

yeah I can't imagine why

[mellow pier]

So we just do reg strat lol

[hollow escarp]

the only reason I'm excited for SLG is the boss after that

[gusty mirage]

it's actually poetic how shitty of a fight that is

[mellow pier]

SLG speed is u literally use everything on CD lol

[glacial shuttle]

Hey does anyone have a macro that lets me bind a single keybind with Vanish when I'm not in stealth, but Shroud when I am?

[slender berry]

and you take the 2nd goliath into intermission

is the biggest time saver

[mellow pier]

Locks get more value

They were trash for prog on it

[tender sequoia]

is lock better in your opinon?

[hollow escarp]

you play sin on SLG?

[mellow pier]

I only got 1 charity kill

Yeah

I’ll be in for speed tho most likely

[gusty mirage]

you could modify the backstab/shadowstrike macro

worth testing at least: /cast [stance] Shroud of Concealment; Vanish

[mellow pier]

Idk when we are going to do speed tho because we will sell last 2 soon

[hollow escarp]

prices dropped hard though

[burnt star]

I do! Even though overall is less. It does more damage when it matthers for us

All the add mechanic are sub 30

[mellow pier]

Also sin parse on slg for speed strat is easy

U just run CT and there’s a million adds up lol

[hollow escarp]

hopefully we get Sludge down in 1 reset

[shy dust]

Sin does slap p3

[brittle pawn]

4th time bottle of flayedwing toxin has been in gv

[shy dust]

Big boss damage

[hollow escarp]

I don't even think DPS is an issue on progging a boss like that now

just mechanics

[burnt star]

Ya. Thats why i went assa over outlaw

[shy dust]

Well if you’re progging a boss months into a tier

[hollow escarp]

ofc, you do less dps while you learn mechanics

[shy dust]

Dps is almost never an issue

[gusty mirage]

now I'm scared to look 😦

[hollow escarp]

yeah

that's what I'm trying to tell to some people

[limber lion]

Unless you're playing with awful players

[gusty mirage]

rumor has it, if you don't die to avoidable damage you can kill the boss pretty easy as the tier goes on

[limber lion]

Even with good gear, going afk to do mechanics can be quite a hit on overall dps

Too many people get a mechanic that happens in 8s

[hollow escarp]

yeah

[limber lion]

And they just run for 8s

And do nothing

[brittle pawn]

first time i've had to take stygia

[gusty mirage]

alright in solidarity I'll take a break from work and check

I'll report back shortly

[burnt star]

Imagine having healer stop healing completly when running to avoid the pushback in slg. And have people die to the big dot

[hollow escarp]

need to do 2 more keys so I get 5 x 226 options

[round harbor]

I'm on a 6 week stygia streak. Can't wait to open in a little bit

[drifting cloud]

not taking tmog smh

[burnt star]

Stygia streak is an upgrade :) u can put free socket

[hollow escarp]

you can always farm tmog

stygia not

[burnt star]

Socket are bigger upgrade then some item

[shy dust]

@round harbor you’ve been hanging out here a bit

Are you finally free

[round harbor]

Ya

[hollow escarp]

lol

[round harbor]

Free to play whatever I want

[shy dust]

And that entails less outlaw 👀

[round harbor]

Just in raid

I been outlaw one tricking since like season 1 bfa

[hollow escarp]

can't blame you

[round harbor]

Except for keys in season 4

[feral dune]

why do i feel like my MA leggo is the wrong one to be using for assassination in pvp with necro covenant?

[hollow escarp]

[gusty mirage]

got the halls ring and shoulders that are a sidegrade

[limber lion]

You can try Doomblade as well. The boys at #pvp know better, you should ask them

[mellow pier]

@shy dust anything good?

[gusty mirage]

halls ring has a socket do I full send the mastery dream @stoic needle ?

[shy dust]

Oh I haven’t opened chest

[mellow pier]

Same

[shy dust]

My rogue only needs 3 raid pieces then I can stop playing em

[hollow escarp]

[mellow pier]

I’m hoping for 3/3 weeks of sire loot

[stoic needle]

You're goddamn right you do

[feral dune]

i dont even have doomblade atm lol. haven't done torghast in a few weeks

[shy dust]

I think last week I had scuffed vault hopefully this week is better

[mellow pier]

I had to choose between ring and helm

[shy dust]

The helm is big

[mellow pier]

Chose ring, prob not the scumbag choice

Yeah I chose ring cause lot of people still need lol

[shy dust]

That makes sense

I respect it

[mellow pier]

Also higher dmg

From what I had lol

[round harbor]

I just need the 233s. And this is the first week I'm eligible for them from box

[slender berry]

good luck sir

[hollow escarp]

so much juicy gear at last 2 bosses

[shy dust]

I run Iqd and the 233 ring

Just fucks my stats beyond belief

So it’s a 60 or so loss

[burnt star]

So the key is kill dena once. Then every week kill 6 boss only

[mellow pier]

Will u run dread fire

When u get it

[shy dust]

Yeah

[round harbor]

With slg and sire rekills ya

[shy dust]

It does better damage

Since I can equip the cloak

Without losing damage

[hollow escarp]

Sire looks like a fun fight to farm though

[burnt star]

Ya of course :)

[mellow pier]

Double on use is better than phial for some fights imo

Just shit to play

[round harbor]

Yeah but double on use is cringe

#Make double passive good again

[mellow pier]

It’s not bad really but more effort than 0 effort

[shy dust]

Double passive is dull

[brittle pawn]

not when you macro them both to mutilate and forget about it

[shy dust]

Give me coral 2.0

[hollow escarp]

agreed

[shy dust]

And some random passive trinket

[hollow escarp]

I hate double on use, but at least it's more fun

[mellow pier]

Give my soul cap and let me fly

[hollow escarp]

hate is a big word

[slender berry]

yea i also hate fun

[hollow escarp]

but yeah

[mellow pier]

Soul cap with dread fire/scars

Would be pog lol

[round harbor]

Fuck coral

Forever

[shy dust]

Coral was great

Coral and font was weird

[limber lion]

Agree

[shy dust]

But those 10 or so seconds of overlap

Was amazing for damage

[mellow pier]

Coral would suck with stat dr tho

😦

[slender berry]

i remember the opulence trinket era

that shit was stupid

[shy dust]

It would probably still be nuts

Even if you lose some value from crit

[slender berry]

ranged camps with opulence trinket

[mellow pier]

Do people really like BFA trinkets? They were all shit lol

[shy dust]

It still also does damage

Mages probably LOVE font

I liked the ep tier trinkets

[brittle pawn]

font can eat a dick

[shy dust]

Coral and inkpod were awesome

[round harbor]

I didn't mind dice and deadrye

[mellow pier]

They were just shit compared to past trinkets imo

[round harbor]

Inkpod was neat

[slender berry]

inkpod on denathrius would be sweet

[burnt star]

Lol. Font. Ask mage how much they loved it

[mellow pier]

AoC, Soul cap, roro, CoF

[burnt star]

That 20 pull timer or gtfo

[mellow pier]

CDR and stat changers are pog

[hollow escarp]

I liked Plumage

[mellow pier]

It’s boring tho

[hollow escarp]

or w/e the versa on use was called

[mellow pier]

It’s just a badge lol

[hollow escarp]

true

[limber lion]

Font was the worst trinket to play with for sure

[mellow pier]

Font for a caster was fine

[round harbor]

Yeah glad I didn't play sin during font times

[limber lion]

Nah, it was still aids

[mellow pier]

To sit and channel as melee was shit

[limber lion]

Especially in m+

[shy dust]

Font was fine

Especially as a mage

[rocky sluice]

when should you pop dredfire vessel in the opener?

[limber lion]

It was awful to play with in m+

[shy dust]

You could shimmer while casting it

For some reason

[limber lion]

You had to think 20s ahead

[round harbor]

I can't even think 2 seconds ahead

[limber lion]

And if you didn't open on a pack or a boss at that time, you were fucked

[mellow pier]

I loved the mages qq about double on use in nyalotha like we didn’t all of EP lol

[limber lion]

You either combust nothing with Font + Trinket

Or you lose your font

[brittle pawn]

i wasnt even a mage and i hated font

hated it as destro

[shy dust]

Font feel fine for sin

[brittle pawn]

didnt have to double on use

[shy dust]

Was enough downtime for a 4 second channel

[brittle pawn]

channeling anything is aids

[shy dust]

Channeling 4k main stat is chill

[gusty mirage]

+23 dps upgrade if I switch my doomblade to hands or the ring which is a FAT 0 dps upgrade

[shy dust]

Or whatever it was

[gusty mirage]

awesome GV this week

[burnt star]

Well 23 dps upgrade

[limber lion]

750 free stygia

[gusty mirage]

Still have other upgrades where the +23 is kind of meh

[autumn sierra]

arrrgghh what cov. to choose.. im such a noob when it comes to decisionmaking, cant someone of you do that for me :d

[lean rover]

/roll 3

[gusty mirage]

just go night fae

soulshape's dope, especially for pvp and its still damn good

[autumn sierra]

@gusty mirage Pog.. im NF already (i dont play pvp tho)

[gusty mirage]

well there ya go 😛

[autumn sierra]

still torn between vent/necr.. dont know whats more important for me, m+ or raid.. i just play sin tho

[gusty mirage]

venthyr is best for ST fights, necro gets better when there are adds

[limber lion]

I would probably go Necro at this point.

[gusty mirage]

so if you want to do m+, necro's a good choice too but you'd be fine with either tbh unless you're pushing for like world first keys whjere you'd play outlaw anyway

@limber lion crafting doomblade on the shoulders bit me in the ass today

got 226 shoulders finally

although, I could just fully buy in, because I technically lose haste if I craft doomblade on my gloves and go with these shoulders

[visual prairie]

would you still recommend running NS + MFD + MA lego for this week's affixes?

[limber lion]

That was bound to happen. Happened to me as well when I crafted Zoldyck boots.

I made them to get little more dps out of my character for the mythic raid week

But eventually it was not the paly

And would not recommend

[stoic needle]

i feel like thats more of a build for fort weeks no? but idk

[limber lion]

60 dps now is 60dps less in the future.

[autumn sierra]

@limber lion are you necro as well? 🙂

[limber lion]

You can play around and test everything out. I would.

[limber lion]

I play Venthyr.

[tender sequoia]

whats your main rotation?

[limber lion]

You gotta specify a little my man

PvP, M+, raids, ST, AoE, cleave, 2T, 3T

What talents

What legendary

Anyways, you can find all of that info here:

!guide

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
RH: https://www.ravenholdt.net/guides/assassination-rogue-guide-shadowlands-raid-dps/
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide

[tender sequoia]

im level 34