assassination

[brittle pawn]

NS snapshots

[balmy condor]

no

to the sludge

the additional damage portions of nightstalker and subterfuge snapshot

and exsang snapshots haste

but aside from that, everything is dynamic

[dreamy vessel]

so if we run master assasin talent then i don't need to care about dot snapshot?

[balmy condor]

correct

it's safe to assume nothing snapshots, and then go from there

[soft shale]

phial also used to snapshot but they fixed it

last patch

[stoic needle]

Did they really??

[balmy condor]

yeh

[dreamy vessel]

cool, thx for the help yall

[balmy condor]

that's why things are beating phial every now and then

[soft shale]

what they have not fixed yet is the SoD flag interaction

[stoic needle]

What interaction is that?

[soft shale]

you use SoD then flag and the initial hit always crits

[stoic needle]

Probably because it still counts as a generator in the code

[jaunty ginkgo]

would a macro like this ever be wrong to use?:

/cast Ambush
/cast Mutilate

[balmy condor]

from stealth, yeah

[soft shale]

on opener that is garbo

[brittle pawn]

cant have 2 globals on aa macro

[soft shale]

same as after vanish

[balmy condor]

yeah

you also can't have 2 globals

but just on top of that

we don't ambush from stealth

so that would just fuck you over

[jaunty ginkgo]

But I mean it will use ambush first then if can't use ambush will use mutilate

[stoic needle]

It doesn't work

[balmy condor]

maybe this will help

!bs

[prisma monolith]

Macroing Ambush to Mutilate only works with the use of a addon.
It comes with the downside that it often requires multiple key presss.
Suggested addon to use(Gnome Sequencer):http://tiny.cc/mxb6tz
Showcase Video: #assassination message

[soft shale]

i guess he only wants that macro in normal bar outside of stealth

but yea you do that

[jaunty ginkgo]

I don't use a stealth bar

[balmy condor]

and even then, that GSE macro isn't recommended

cause it can still fuck you

sin already only has like 6 buttons

just put it on a different key

that's really just the solution

anything else is a loss of dps

[jaunty ginkgo]

yeah fair enough thanks for the infos

sorry just new to the spec after years 😄

[balmy condor]

np

we get the question a fair amount

that's why there's the command

:)

[brisk drift]

When is best to slice and dice on pull? I've looked on wowlogs and either I'm blind or it doesnt look like people use it on pull?

Maybe I'm just blind though

[burnt latch]

Muti -> snd afaik

If running normal st talents

[brisk drift]

tyty!

[brittle pawn]

show us a log without snd

[brisk drift]

Either it's not showing up or I'm blind

[manic harness]

Uh, aren't those damage sources?

SnD is a buff

[brisk drift]

Ohh, not blind, just an idiot

mbmb

lol

[brittle pawn]

yea

[brisk drift]

ty!

[soft shale]

look at casts not timeline

[brittle pawn]

you want timeline

casts not damage

[soft shale]

yea timeline and casts

[jagged sail]

hm

[balmy condor]

Timeline -> casts can be wrong too if they precast the snd

[jagged sail]

anyone tried assa with Venomrush or Exsanguinate (pref. with high haste) if its good or not?

[limber lion]

No.

Bad.

Very bad.

[soft shale]

take your poison you lose 200 dps or 400 dps

[jagged sail]

well that was simple 😄

[soft shale]

or play ala

[balmy condor]

Yeah both of those talents are the worst talents on the entire tree

[brittle pawn]

but what about if i have 0 cp and vendetta just came up and the boss is at 20% with a blindside proc and rupture just fell off

[balmy condor]

Consume the blindside, rupture, then vendetta

[brittle pawn]

then exsang?

just memeing about that guy last night

[balmy condor]

Then you alt f4 because boss at 20% and they don’t need you

[soft shale]

wait didnt you need to play nighstalker and vanish with a big 6 p rupture

that will show the boss

[brittle pawn]

it was something like that

[heavy summit]

just did a dos 12 ilvl 214 does this overall seem accurate?

[brittle pawn]

that's probably very accurate

that's how details works

[heavy summit]

😄

[karmic crystal]

that is exactly the damage you did

can confirm

[heavy summit]

i thought it was off

let me reword that. should i be doing more dps

[limber lion]

It's hard to say

Depends on your talent setup, legendary, pack sizes, tanks route, pride usage, lusts etc.

[heavy summit]

yeah you're right

[karmic crystal]

it's a perfectly fine amount of damage to have done based on the information we have

[covert stratus]

is shadowgrasp totem a trap or is it actually good?

220 totem sims higher than 226 skulker's

[stoic needle]

It's not a trap

[brittle pawn]

skulker's really not that super great

[balmy condor]

Traps aren’t real

[limber lion]

[gusty mirage]

Say it aint so, the meme totem trinket is actually good now?

[balmy condor]

Yeah

Turns out it’s hasted

For some reason

[gusty mirage]

oh snap

[balmy condor]

So when we all went back to sin

[brittle pawn]

i passed on a 226 one of the first weeks

[balmy condor]

We’re like wait a minute

[gusty mirage]

So I've been giving away a good trinket every DOS I've done?

[balmy condor]

I mean it’s not like giga op go farm

But is aight

[stoic needle]

Can't give one away if it never drops

[gusty mirage]

I feel dirty saying this

but bonespike feels kinda nice

[balmy condor]

I agree

I hate the covenant tho

Ability feels great

[gusty mirage]

I've found a solution for no fancy covenant mog

I just farm 4 stacks of deviate delight every couple of days

[stoic needle]

Wow we're all gonna be stinky

[gusty mirage]

I'll stock up on fabreeze for us

[stoic needle]

I can't abide by the fucking flying mount in 9.1

[gusty mirage]

tbh at this point I might as well switch fae and get that to 40 renown too

[stoic needle]

Yeah that's what I'm doing

Though I will never go kyrian

[gusty mirage]

But then you won't get the fun of telling one of your friend that they are "yoo-hoo the best"

[stoic needle]

I'm being a turbo degen and leveling up necro so I can swap before every push week and then swap back to venthyr whenever I decide to raid

[limber lion]

https://tenor.com/view/stop-it-get-some-help-gif-7929301

[gusty mirage]

I'm just gonna stick with the stinky boys

[stoic needle]

you'll never take me alive

[gusty mirage]

this renown farm is getting annoying

[stoic needle]

Well it doesn't really matter once you unlock all of the soulbinds

Who cares what your renown is after that

[gusty mirage]

but think of all the cool mogs with the extra arms

[stoic needle]

I'd rather not

If you just take the rejoin covenant quest the same week you swap and just play the game, swapping back and forth isn't that bad actually

[balmy condor]

[limber lion]

[stoic needle]

Leave me alone ok

[balmy condor]

"idk maybe I'll quit, but FIRST let's spend a bunch of time giga min-maxing an annoying system for minimal gain"

[stoic needle]

That's me

I don't consider it that much extra time tbf because it do the swap quests from keys I would've done already to begin with

Because I'm a weirdo who likes doing keys

[sullen pagoda]

then just stay necro who cares about ST 200 dps +- on farm

[soft shale]

well just think about people like me farming sets of gear that will make me do less damage on most content but have shiny numbers on other

living for those 6k garrote ticks like old SS

[stoic needle]

I mean I do, and I like the venthyr aesthetic more

I couldn't take being stinky 24/7

[limber lion]

Also when do you even raid? I thought you didn't have a guild

[stoic needle]

'whenever I decide to raid'

I'm trying to find one

[kind talon]

Has your trial not happened?

Join our guild Osho lmao

We are raiding today

Come

[stoic needle]

They didn't need me for the comp this week apparently

[kind talon]

Unless you’re locked out lol

[brittle pawn]

you can't take the rejoin quest the week you swap

[sullen pagoda]

not to be offensive but you are 2/10 mythic 1.4k rio you can just chill on that kind of min max of swapping covenants per week lmao

[stoic needle]

You can also mind your fucking business

[brittle pawn]

i bet you go to the playground and yell at the kids playing stickball

[sullen pagoda]

I mean you are sharing your business in a public discord if you want it private dont spread it @stoic needle

[brittle pawn]

YOURE GARBAGE, ITS NOT THE BOTTOM OF THE 9TH WITH FULL COUNT AND 2 OUTS, BASES LOADED

[stoic needle]

Who?

[gusty mirage]

woah

I step away for a bit and I miss roast osh hour?

[echo cargo]

Yo what the hell

[gusty mirage]

?

[crimson terrace]

The who?

[soft shale]

my fellow mastery believer although i will also level necro eventually i guess

to have almost all at 40

[hollow escarp]

I was planning to do that for SLG

[limber lion]

Necro is definitely better for SLG

So not sure how that would work.

[hollow escarp]

well, I mean to swap to necro after killing sludge

[limber lion]

Ah I thought that you'd go Necro for push weeks and Venthyr for SLG

That makes sense :p

[hollow escarp]

yeah

also planned to play outlaw

85 pulls on council as sin were too much for me

[soft shale]

council is def a sub/outlaw fight

unless you're in my guild where all the waiters insta die

fuck 3 boomies

i was tempted to whip out the mfd sub like on my old guild

for attendants

[storm forum]

can we evasion dodge the charge from the first boss of SD?

[soft shale]

yes

[storm forum]

thanks

[hollow escarp]

but call it in voice

[storm forum]

i willl

[soft shale]

usually if you face the wall they get the idea

like dont even run out of melee

just do a 90º

[hollow escarp]

yeah, I had somebody die because of that

[ebon bramble]

zoldryk our go to for m+ right?

[soft shale]

that is correct

[ebon bramble]

how many targets before we use fan of knives instead of multilatE?

3 right?

[hollow escarp]

4

[weak horizon]

Yeah, if you think about your crit as x and n as the number of targets then 2 +2x is mutilate cp and fok is 1+nx.

If x is between 0 and 1 then it's always more combo points on average to mut on 3

Only argument I've seen for fok on 3 is to spread poisons quickly but idk if that's correct

[balmy condor]

Correct

Foking on 3 to refresh poisons is a slight gain

[unborn eagle]

crit/mast

[balmy condor]

Crit/mast?

[dawn ivy]

crit/mast

[ebon bramble]

ah 4. ok thanks 😄

[torn atlas]

Mast/crit?

[stoic needle]

Mast/mast

[soft shale]

im considering just deleting the assa part from the list tbh

it is a big bait

[balmy condor]

Cast mrit?

[soft shale]

like living in the world of no haste seems hell

although well i guess you have the 10% from ala

[balmy condor]

I mean, I would just delete the list altogether, but you do you

[stoic needle]

Don't delete it, I could help you come up with a mast + crit/haste set

[soft shale]

just gonna save it for myself it does do more damage than my current set at least

also getting some of those pieces at 226 is kinda good

[slow marsh]

Are we talking about simming full mastery as assassination??

[stoic needle]

Honestly I just like that it's an easy reference for what items I want to live out my meme dreams

So I don't delete them if I get them in a dungeon

I've got the legs and helm already

[soft shale]

sadly this expansion has stats dr

so it becomes even more meme to try anything like that

getting to 2k mastery seems lit until you realise how much % you are losing because of dr

crit seems possible to cap next tier tho

[stoic needle]

I'd like to have the set just in case one day they add some ridiculous new system that makes it good

[soft shale]

and haste can get to absurd levels with venth and bl as those are not affected by dr

[slow marsh]

Depends on the amount of crit/haste but then you'd just go haste/crit

And even then I imagine you would just stack haste vers pieces over mastery still

[soft shale]

nah only on m+ mastery crit is better as haste and vers lose some value

[stoic needle]

I've gotten to 121% haste in raid with all procs during bloodlust

[soft shale]

but the thing is you cant go all in

like on past expansions

[balmy condor]

Or

Just sim it

[soft shale]

yea just sim all combinations that would work too

[slow marsh]

I mean I highly doubt we will be able to upgrade our current gear past the current ilvl max anyways but I suppose if you're that bored there's no harm to it

[soft shale]

or just try to filter as much as possible

i only lack gloves from inerva and im done getting a good crit/mastery set with some vers

or well the ones from DoS work too

like i mean im not dumb i would not farm DoS boots when i already have the BoE ones with leech

just because of mastery

[balmy condor]

I wouldn’t put it past you;

;)

[soft shale]

and they are even less ilvl

hey i would have 15% leech if i didnt have to trade slg shoulders to a tank dh

i will never live that out

[stoic needle]

I hope they let us upgrade them to the later valor caps I don't want to have to farm a Phial every tier

[soft shale]

then guild disbands

[stoic needle]

[slow marsh]

I agree I hope they do too but I'm just saying I doubt it. It's blizzard

[soft shale]

i dont mind farming phial

[slow marsh]

They will release the patch then say any previous gear from before the patch is capped so you have to refarm

[soft shale]

but if raid comes with good trinkets like this one is not really 100% obligatory

[slow marsh]

I wouldn't mind a vendor though to meet halfway

[soft shale]

i do hope they shy away from stat increase trinks as how dr is already a thing

or ones that give % stat like the darkmoon one for int

so you dont get dr cucked

[slow marsh]

Idk if drs will be that big of an issue tbh. Vers is too good as a third stat

[soft shale]

if they introduced a trophy system like in bfa i would also be game

problem is blizz does not want you to play stat allocation

but at this rate we will get borrowed power shit that gives stats

and then trinkets like device will be hmm

[slow marsh]

At least the pvp trink isn't our bis unlike some other classes. Or at least very close

[soft shale]

the pvp proc one was really good the first weeks

if you had a 226 one

[slow marsh]

I'm not too mad about trinks this patch. Phial is annoyingly good but it's not game breaking

[soft shale]

phial got stealth nerfed this patch tho

it used to snapshot does not do anymore

so it not huge diff anymore

[fleet anchor]

Snapshot in what regard?

[soft shale]

yea remember it was vaughn or someone else that confirmed if you equiped MA the 30 sec dot always crit

and also bl haste/trinkets etc

[fleet anchor]

Didn't see anything like that personally, but I guess it's possible.

Don't believe it ever simmed like that anyway, it's still BiS

[soft shale]

yea good thing but what i mean it wont do like 7% of overall now

it was crazy

[rocky sluice]

hey guys

i can't tell what does more damage.. phantom fire/shadowcore oil combo or two sharpening stones with the spectral agility potion

tell me your thoughts :p

[balmy condor]

!oil

[prisma monolith]

Using consumables will increase your damage, however the difference between oil/stone/potion combinations are very minor (within 0.5% of each other). You can sim the difference for yourself by pasting this pastebin underneath your /simc input, in the "advanced sim" section of raidbots: https://pastebin.com/Lbxc7afJ

[rocky sluice]

yo word, thanks

[soft shale]

one has more variance than the other

but dont confuse that of being better or worse

[placid dawn]

does numbing poison work on raid bosses? and does it stack with the curse from warlocks?

[soft shale]

yes and yes but multiplicatively

[placid dawn]

nice, thanks

[stoic needle]

That giga rogue utility poggers

[torn atlas]

I thought it did not work on raid bosses? In practice I've seen it apply on plater, but instantly removed maybe .5seconds later.

[balmy condor]

It does

It’s a little janky though

The attack speed works

The cast speed does not

[halcyon zealot]

worth getting a rupture on off boss on council for regen or nah

[balmy condor]

Yes

Gar and rup on a side Boss

[halcyon zealot]

on just one or worth on both for p1

[soft shale]

garrote i know is always worth but rupture on third no idea

[torn atlas]

Ahh righto. Makes sense. Good thing I run it out of habit then haha.

[balmy condor]

After 5 bleeds it’s not worth but it’s questionable whether the downtime you need to run over and dot it, then run back, is worth it

So I would suggest just one

[dark jewel]

for m sire prog are people going doomblade or zoldyck still

[balmy condor]

Honestly doomblade p3 damage seems pretty good

[soft shale]

it depends on how your guild is doing the boss if you have to wait 10 to 15 secs in p1 and 2

[balmy condor]

Zoldyck seems to be better for specifically that

[wanton imp]

!sims

[prisma monolith]

Simulations:
Herodamage: https://www.herodamage.com/rogue/
Bloodmallet: https://bloodmallet.com/index.html

[halcyon zealot]

@balmy condor ty

[balmy condor]

Np homie

[thorny pond]

IQD > Chain?

[soft shale]

fight lenght

[balmy condor]

Yeah depends on the fight length tbh

They’re both very good

[thorny pond]

Thank you. I didn't think the sims were off

[balmy condor]

Yeah the sims are fine

[rancid blaze]

Best soulbind for M+ for Venth?

[soft shale]

theotar

double potency or wasteland are fine although maybe any assa player can answer what they run usually

[stoic needle]

wasteland > double potency

[solid mica]

So iqd isnt a trap for sin like it is for outlaw?

[stoic needle]

no

not really sure how it's a trap for outlaw either

[soft shale]

outlaw's can proc haste sometimes and they int with that i guess

[solid mica]

Just sims insanely high but doesnt practice out that way

[stoic needle]

if you use a weakaura it works fine

and haste isnt bad for outlaw

[solid mica]

And its specifically awkward to open with that and CtO

[stoic needle]

how?

[solid mica]

You have to find a window to proc it in between pacs where it wont proc anything else and before youre restealths to open with ambush/dispatch

[stoic needle]

? why wouldn't you just use it as soon as you open on a pack

[solid mica]

You can but doesnt it risk just healing someone/doing something irrelevant or does the WA fix that?

[stoic needle]

the WA tells you what its going to do

[solid mica]

Yea I guess that helps but haste aint as great for AoE and mastery is alwaya p bad so if you dont get crit/verse itd be pretty medium I presume

And if you do run MA then the crit could be awkward as well

I havent used in awhile tho

Iqd*

[stoic needle]

it chooses your 2 highest stats on gear, so if you have crit/vers stacked itll always give you that

i dont think the MA affect influences it towards crit

and it wont heal someone unles they're less than 30% hp

likewise with mana

[solid mica]

Hm thats good to know, theres gotta be some reason everybody in the OL channel is off it then

[stoic needle]

i think there's a lot of misunderstanding about the trinket

it's good for all rogue specs

[regal chasm]

The only thing "wrong" w iqd is it generally performs worse than the raid trinkets

It's p good for M+ though

[solid mica]

Apparently its because its good to line up with big cd's which outlaw doesnt really have

[stoic needle]

that's not really true

doesnt matter whether you line iqd up with big cds or not its good regardless

the sims dont hold cds for iqd

and it sims well

[regal chasm]

Well, it is indeed even better for specs with bigger CDs, since they're gonna align at least once. It's probably regarded as a sim trap cuz in prog scenarios your subsequent casts just end up giving mana

[slow marsh]

people just dont know how iqd works and so they just say it's bad cuz they're bad

that used to be me but then i read the wowhead entry and got the WA

problem solved

[soft shale]

people also dont know that on bl you get 5 extra secs it always procs a secondary stat and its also the highest at that time

[sick scarab]

what trinket are we talòking about ?

ah device

[sick scarab]

what WA are you using ?

[slow marsh]

Just look up iqd on wagio and it should pop. It simply shows if it'll proc stats, heal, maNa, or execute damage. Super useful

[sick scarab]

k tnx i got a 220 idq but sims lower .. need to farm phial

anyone using shaded sharp stones + agi pots instead oil and phantn fire.. i got better sims with stones + agi pots

[shy dust]

It’s pretty common

For it to sim higher

[frail fossil]

u hold iqd for 1min tho right ? to line it up with vendetta

after first use

[gloomy knoll]

@shy dust why no mastery on slg

[shy dust]

mastery?

[balmy condor]

Yeah haven’t you heard, it’s all the rage, we even have a spreadsheet now with mastery/crit items

For giga crit mastery

The best stats

[shy dust]

o

i think he means

parasol

or w/e

for slg soulbind

[fossil eagle]

any though of gem and enchant matery?

[indigo mulch]

Awww feelsbad when you get kicked out the ToP +17 for playing sin 😦

"sorry need outlaw" lulw

[fossil eagle]

been there @indigo mulch

[indigo mulch]

I don't really do m+ outside of the guild so thats a first for me lol

[frail fossil]

spec into outlaw and change spec just before the key starts

[indigo mulch]

I didnt think people was that anal about what spec you play D:

I mean anything under 20 is fine to play w/e lol

[balmy condor]

Mastery is usually our worst stat

[limber lion]

It's really different for many people. Some people consider 15+ keys already as really high keys where you need an optimal comp to get through

[indigo mulch]

Wait what lol

[limber lion]

Whereas some consider +22 a relaxed key

[frail fossil]

i mean for some ppl a 15 is a prog key so they want to get everything as optimized as they can

but kicking someone cuz he's assa is rly silly

[limber lion]

Seli is boosting 22-23's, whereas for most it's hard to ever get to that level

[balmy condor]

I’ve been kicked from a 9 because “sorry double melee”

[frail fossil]

they just didn't like u and found an excuse

[balmy condor]

True

[indigo mulch]

We ran +16 mist with 2 warriors 1 surv hunter a memeweaver and paladin tank 😦

[frail fossil]

i mean personally i rly dont. care abt comp

[torn atlas]

I farmed Pox and made Celerity, ran some keys and my damage as Law is just dog shit compared to Sin.

[frail fossil]

yeah might not have to do with the spec tho

[stoic needle]

yeah idk i can't manage to hit the same dps as outlaw as i usually do with sin

[fossil eagle]

@balmy condor ty

[stoic needle]

guess im just not good with it yet

or maybe my gear is bad for it idk

[torn atlas]

I also don't WANT to learn Outlaw either. Just our healer is insistent cos the other rogue in our guild is an absolute monster.
So maybe I'm just subconsciously inting because I don't want to play it.

[stoic needle]

too much mastery or something xd

[indigo mulch]

MAstery is great in m+ 😄

[stoic needle]

not for outlaw

[indigo mulch]

I wish i had a crit/mastery set for m+ as sin

[limber lion]

[indigo mulch]

I love it! Big bleed damagez!

[stoic needle]

i like the spec and i think im decent at it besides my opportunity procs but the damage isnt there and im not entirely sure why

[indigo mulch]

My gear overall is pretty meh though

Our other rogue in the guild has near perfect sin gear and he still does less dmg than me in raids 😐

feelsbadman

[stoic needle]

i think mine is really good for sin but pretty meh for outlaw

thats a weirdchamp

[frail fossil]

turn out doing ur rotation properly is more important than 5% more haste

[indigo mulch]

Rotation as sin is pretty darn simple though lol

[limber lion]

Hot take: every single class and spec in this game is very simple to play and get good at, and the difficulty comes from other factors like the mechanics in the encounter.

[frail fossil]

i just think ppl give way too much importance to secondaries

[torn atlas]

Slap on some bleeds, spread a lil poison, maybe throw an envenom in here and there if I'm feeling naughty.

[frail fossil]

like daaamn i cant play sin with 10% haste

when rly agi never been this strong

[stoic needle]

wdym sin is unplayable without 1 extra energy/second

[limber lion]

Technically it's more than that

Because your bleeds tick faster as well.

[balmy condor]

Really? You don’t think agility, which is more damage, haste, which is a lot of your damage is now faster, which is more damage, crit, which is sometimes just double damage, which is more damage, vers, which is all your damage is more damage, and mastery, which is a lot of your damage is more damage, isn’t an important distinction?

Dude no way

[limber lion]

Imagine

[balmy condor]

Crit increases bleed damage and Envenoms, Mastery increases bleed damage and Envenoms, Haste increases bleed damage and more Envenoms, Vers increases bleeds damage and Envenoms

Insane

[frail fossil]

[stoic needle]

it takes like 22% haste before you even get 1 extra tick on your dots like its not that noticeable

[balmy condor]

Bruh say sike right now

[limber lion]

1 extra tick is 16 energy

With gar/rup

[stoic needle]

https://tenor.com/view/yawnface-gif-4425271

[balmy condor]

I won’t have you spouting that nonsense lmao

Miss me with that shit

[stoic needle]

16 energy

[balmy condor]

Tick breakpoints

Classic brain

[stoic needle]

wut

[limber lion]

If tick breakpoints mattered

[frail fossil]

hey can u guys check my logs, i'm parsing grey, i only have 8% haste rly bad sin gear haha ? wait what do u mean by 75% bleed uptime uptime

[stoic needle]

they literally dont

[limber lion]

Then we would build toward them

But they don't.

[balmy condor]

You’re playing retail, tick breakpoints don’t exist

[stoic needle]

tahts my point

[limber lion]

Yeh

[stoic needle]

they do though? but they're irrelevant

[limber lion]

They literally don't

[balmy condor]

[limber lion]

[frail fossil]

classic brains

[stoic needle]

just because refreshing stuff in pandemic makes it weird doesnt mean that the breakpoints suddenly don't exist

[frail fossil]

@stoic needle what's the tick treshold

[stoic needle]

i dont know off the top of my head because they dont matter

[balmy condor]

I don’t have the energy for this

[stoic needle]

why would i remember something irrelevant

[limber lion]

Get some more haste

[balmy condor]

True

Maybe I’ll hit a breakpoint

[limber lion]

Imagine

[frail fossil]

hello mr whispyr, i always wanted to ask you, would it be possible to macro mut and ambush together ? as i do not use any modifier key i am kinda struggling to find more buttons haha

[balmy condor]

Haha

!bs

[prisma monolith]

Macroing Ambush to Mutilate only works with the use of a addon.
It comes with the downside that it often requires multiple key presss.
Suggested addon to use(Gnome Sequencer):http://tiny.cc/mxb6tz
Showcase Video: #assassination message

[balmy condor]

Get moroes’d

[frail fossil]

[balmy condor]

[frail fossil]

moroes

[balmy condor]

You think I don’t have a command for that?

[soft shale]

yea but what if the mob is on execute range would it be worth to vanish with ns for a 6 p rupture

he

i love this channel

[low girder]

What do you think about moving flag before the garrote in the opener?

[limber lion]

[balmy condor]

You mean bone spike?

[low girder]

Heathen

[ornate dawn]

Anyone find taking the Vers at the bottom of the Theotar tree better than taking double potency?

[balmy condor]

Yes

That’s completely normal

[frail fossil]

double potency

[ornate dawn]

uwot

[hallow peak]

[balmy condor]

It’s either nadjia double potency, theotar double potency, or wasteland

Most of the time it’s wasteland

[ancient delta]

shadowcore or stone?

[balmy condor]

!oil

[prisma monolith]

Using consumables will increase your damage, however the difference between oil/stone/potion combinations are very minor (within 0.5% of each other). You can sim the difference for yourself by pasting this pastebin underneath your /simc input, in the "advanced sim" section of raidbots: https://pastebin.com/Lbxc7afJ

[ancient delta]

thanks bud

[balmy condor]

https://tenor.com/view/homie-shower-gotchu-sneaky-gif-13813267

[tawdry falcon]

im glad you mentioned that stuff about soulbinds because now my sims are showing something completely different then when i started lol

double pot is better for me now by 100dps

[balmy condor]

For single target though right

[tawdry falcon]

yeah

[balmy condor]

Yeah we were talking m+

[tawdry falcon]

oh i gotcha

[balmy condor]

But yeah venthyr binds are kinda wild

[tawdry falcon]

yeah i figured that the 3% damage was pretty much unbeatable, but well place steel is edging it out for me

[balmy condor]

Happens if you have a decent amount of mastery I think

There’s stat when shenanigans involved

[tawdry falcon]

im at 31%, probably because of my sub gear

[balmy condor]

Ye

[inland heath]

how you guys use serrated bones on mythic+ just on cd on 3 targets asap after 3 garrotes?

[quiet valley]

I use it as a CP builder when available. It super cheap and gets a few ruptures going quickly

Rarely play assa in m+ though

[balmy condor]

Yeh it’s basically just mfd

With some damage

[limber lion]

Ye pretty much just apply garrotes, CT and just apply it to whatever, trying to snipe targets when possible if you care enough

[inland heath]

tyvm

[zinc frost]

Usually garrote x 3 > CT > SBS target 1 > SBS target 2 > rupture > SBS target 3 > snd/rupture etc.

Also if you tab target like I do, be careful cause I pulled an entire pack from across the room in DoS

[winter vapor]

I do slightly different, Garrote x3, FoK, CT, SBS 1, SBS 2, Rupture, then just look at maintaining bleeds, and using the last SBS on balance with FoK

also, agreed, screw tab target -.-

[zinc frost]

Yeah just depends on your CP at the time

[winter vapor]

indeed, am happy to be corrected but its just the routine I feel is the most efficient. Feels a lot more flexible in its timing compared to what I see people writing re Flag

which is both good and bad, I guess 😛

[balmy condor]

If I’m at 0 cp I like gar x4 -> ct tbh

But all basically the same

[zinc frost]

Sniping mobs with SBS for a cheeky reset is where it becomes a sexy ability tho

[balmy condor]

Yeh

[winter vapor]

agreed

cheap CP ftw

I also like the torghast powers with them

[solid mica]

what would the 2 best potencies be for emeni on sludge?

[limber lion]

WPS and Sudden Fractures most likely.

[solid mica]

ya wasn't sure if like maim would be good since i assume it would burst on pillars?

better than a poison

[limber lion]

Eh it's not that great honestly.

[solid mica]

ya i've never used it so wasn't sure

is the talent setup just ST or is like EP better than blindside

[strange python]

check logs ?

[solid mica]

good idea

66% EP 34% BS

[limber lion]

EP is generally considered better for the fight yeah.

[solid mica]

yeah i guess blindside would be less reliable burst

[strange python]

how awkward is Inscrutable Quantum Device to use in the raid? Never really played with it because I'm not really a fan of thinking about yet another mechanic while fighting bosses. But it sims really good for me unfortunately.

[warm cedar]

Depends on the boss

[frosty cedar]

Always shows only fukin mana for me on second use

[warm cedar]

Some bosses like denathrius u can use it safely but others like council you won't guarantee stats everytime etc

[strange python]

thanks

[frosty cedar]

It's better to take the sim with a grain of salt

[strange python]

Guess I will have to try it for myself 😕

[warm cedar]

Ya can also sim 0% chance to proc stats if u don't trust other raid members etc

Or check logs where people use cube etc

[rocky rain]

I have outlaw still simming higher than assa pure single target. Did I miss something, or do I just not have the gear for assa atm?

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/3xaBDJdC8ag5Af4Z5CAYgL

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/wchoTPWRHtXMkhFz69Pq8D

[warm cedar]

Pretty big weapon ilvl difference

226+220 VS 220+207

[rocky rain]

Yeah, outlaw is definitely better geared. Just wondering If I missed something silly in the sin sim since I'm not used to it. Can you sanity check it for me please ❤️

[solid mica]

i see a bunch of people running CiS on sludge, are they legit vanishing and waiting 4 sec just to soak?

[olive tendon]

Does someone know why top#18 assassination rogues on Sludgefist [mythic] play with Elaborate Planning (instead of Blindside) and Vigor (instead of Deeper Stratagem)?
I was thinking about Vigor. Maybe it's because they don't want to lose energy during Destructive Stomp and Hateful Gaze.
But what about Elaborate Planning on pure single target fight?

[solid mica]

i think it might be because vigor allows you to pool more energy for pillar burst and EP provides more consistent dmg in those windows than hoping to get enough BS procs (would be my guess)

[limber lion]

Exactly like Yaga said. You have more resources to use on pillars with Vigor and you deal more damage with EP during those windows. BS is unreliable and if you pool properly before the pillars, you don't get as much value out of it as you would from EP.

[limber lion]

No, defensive/utility conduits do not matter. They are just preference. You should not play around those.

[limber lion]

I did a sim check for you and I got 10 more DPS by changing some enchants around, but fact is that you're still quite poorly geared for Assa. The weapon difference is just quite big.

[olive tendon]

Make sense, thanks for the answers, guys! ❤️

[limber lion]

With better weapons Assa would pull ahead.

[limber lion]

[strange python]

Question for Stone Legion. Is it worth it to keep up my bleeding dots on the bosses in their shield phases while fighting the ads? I guess energy should still regenerate faster right?

[solid mica]

Was jw cause cis literally doesnt do anything besides on pull if you dont do that lol

@limber lion

[alpine garden]

Just drag them off your character/out your bag and say yes to delete

[limber lion]

Yup exactly. Just play what you want, doesn't really matter. I use CiS as well because I use it in M+ and in PvP and I don't think it's worth it to swap it for raid.

[limber lion]

Yes you should. Do note that the boss needs to be poisoned as well for the Venomous Wounds passive to function.

[plucky sluice]

wow.... blizz shoud buff drop chance of daggers... only rogues can get it and 20 times mists without drop... so nice -.-

[limber lion]

Pretty sure other classes can as well.

Jusy unlucky, what can I say lol

You'll get it next time!! Gambatte!

[knotty heron]

Morning! Questions:

1. In M+ is Lashing Scars worth more than the vile poisons conduit? Seems like the latter has more overall usage?
2. Mystlers guide says Theotar is better for M+ than Nadjia. Why?
3. Now many targets should I rupture on an aoe pull?

[knotty heron]

Pretty sure they cant since INT daggers cannot become AGI daggers

Ive personally never seen a dagger drop for a non rogue in the last two years

Unless it was a spellblade

[ruby birch]

this is true, they are separate weapons

[limber lion]

Ah, I was thinking Feral could drop an agi dagger

But I stand corrected

Rip.

[ruby birch]

ye unfortunately nothing can use daggers but us

i guess DH has the same problem with glaives

[knotty heron]

A simple fix would be to let spell blades switch

[fallen current]

But dh can use other 1 handers.

[knotty heron]

So at least we could share weapons with clothies

[ruby birch]

yup, sad

[ruby birch]

problem here is they are designed completely differently, so what agi dagger would it swap to?

[knotty heron]

But i mean in the future

[ruby birch]

ye they should

[knotty heron]

Like just design them exactly like 1h swords that can be str/agi

[limber lion]

1. Yes, always Lashing Scars for all content.
2. Thrill Seeker is a bit random and the combo of the umbrella and Wasteland is too good to pass up. Sim-wise double potency Nadja and Theotar with Wasteland are pretty close actually. The umbrella can be pretty random and hard to play with as well, so in the end it's preference.
3. You should rupture everything that lives close to the full duration.

[regal chasm]

Doubt that'll happen since int weapons are meant to have a different look. This weapon gearing issue for rogues has persisted for so long, blizz doesn't care

[knotty heron]

So wasteland buff is better than 2 potenicies?

[limber lion]

Yes, it sims similarly but the sim doesn't account for the vers you give to your team as well

It only sims the benefit you get

Giving your whole team vers whenever you Flag is great

[knotty heron]

So currently ive been holding Flag for Pridefuls and bosses

So should I just spam it on cooldown for that buff?

[limber lion]

You should have Flag for most Prides and/or bosses, but you should not hold on to it for 5 minutes because there's no boss/pride to be hit

Just press it on cooldown as much as you can (same with Vend/Vanish) but holding it for the big boys when needed.

[fallen current]

Try and time it for prides and bosses. Exception is probably pride before a boss.

[limber lion]

You should be able to use it at least once or twice on trash packs before needing it for Pride/Boss.

[fallen current]

Yep.

[limber lion]

Holding CD's is generally a big no-no.

[knotty heron]

This has been my biggest confusion with sin in keys

Popping my big single target cds on trash has felt kinda not worth it

[limber lion]

But why would holding them be better if you literally don't use them for 5minutes and miss out on 2 free Vendettas and 3 free Flags?

It's free damage.

Just need to allign cds for the big boys

[knotty heron]

I dunno. I dont have a good explanation

[limber lion]

But don't be afraid of using them on cd

Preferably on bigger targets of course.

[knotty heron]

My brain just thinks “this thing wont even last a full vendetta”

[viral meadow]

does EP grant the finishing move you use the 10%? or only the damage following

[knotty heron]

Oh also at what Haste breakpoint will it feel comfortable to switch to Deeper Strat?

[viral meadow]

20% still doesn't feel good

[knotty heron]

Yeahhh im at 21% and feel like i couldnt take off vigor

[limber lion]

It's a bit of a different playstyle. There are no breakpoints for any stats or for any class in WoW.

For a Venthyr 20% haste is already quite a lot.

[potent rune]

at 18% haste sim was telling me to swap to more crit. does the thrillseeker have anything to do it more crit?

[limber lion]

It's just the nature of Venthyr getting so much haste from other sources. (Thrill Seeker/Flag)

Also the more crit you have, the more combo points you can fit in your Flag window

[potent rune]

ah true i forgot about flag

[knotty heron]

Yeah my sims are telling me crit is starting to hedge out haste too

[limber lion]

I'm at 15.6% haste and crit is high for me.

[knotty heron]

Oh wow

[limber lion]

I even have more crit than haste anyways.

[knotty heron]

Im over here like dreamining of 30% unbuffed crit for better regen lol

[rocky rain]

Thanks mate

[jovial sphinx]

Feel u so Hard Bro 😂

[fallen current]

Best enchants for m+? Lightless on both? I don’t raid so it’d be whatever is best for m+

[plucky sluice]

nope, only rogues (sind and sub) can drop dagger >:<

[limber lion]

My pleasure

[clever vapor]

Hey fellas, I saw a rogue using the following macro:

#showtooltip Vanish
/stopattack
/cast Vanish
/cast Stealth

What's the point of Vanish and then stealthing?

[limber lion]

Double Lightless or Cele/Light. You should sim it.

[limber lion]

Literally nothing.

No reason whatsoever to have /cast Stealth after the Vanish.

[clever vapor]

It's one of the macros Jpc uses apparently

[limber lion]

It literally does nothing.

Vanish gives you stealth.

The stopattack is also useless

Because Vanish already has that built in

The only Vanish macro that is useful or that I can think of, is a macro that casts Vanish when you're in combat and Stealth when you're not.

So you don't accidentally waste Vanish outside of combat.

[clever vapor]

@limber lion Thanks, I felt like it doesn't make much sense too

[limber lion]

My pleasure.

[hollow escarp]

with shadowmeld you would want that kind of macro

but I still prefer to press them separately

[quiet valley]

Could the stealth shield conduit have something to do with that macro? Just trying to find a reason

[hidden timber]

Its for the Conduit for shield in stealth

[hollow escarp]

doubt, that conduit actually helps you to not require restealthing so often if you have a dot on, plaguefall water for example

[hidden timber]

Vanish doesn't apply the shield, you have to be in stealth

[hollow escarp]

ohh

is that it?

[quiet valley]

In that case, mystery solved

[hollow escarp]

well, aren't we vanishing offensively most of the time?

[quiet valley]

I dont really play that conduit so cant confirm

[hollow escarp]

maybe I assume that because I play night elf

[hidden timber]

Yeah :)

[hollow escarp]

so I use shadowmeld for stuff like that

[tired falcon]

Doesn’t hurt to have the shield

[hollow escarp]

and vanish always offensively

the snd conduit healed me more overall

[quiet valley]

For sure worth it to have the macro though

I mean the shield drops passively out of stealth so it wont give much

But still worth it

[hollow escarp]

but I can see it being valuable in Plaguefall

with all those dots

[hidden timber]

It has its use, even more so if you Play outlaw since Vanish is off CD so often :)

[hollow escarp]

as outlaw for sure

did my first outlaw key in a while today and I did the same dps as sin

but my boomie and mage teammates didn't even hit 5.5k

idk wtf is going on with pugs

[fallen current]

Sadness.

That’s what’s going on

[tired falcon]

Tbf pf isn’t a dps dung though

Just abuse bombs and even if everyone does below 5k, prob a time

[lament dove]

what does best drop mean in the droptimizer? socket...?

[quiet valley]

Best item from that specific source

You might have multiple upgrades, best drop is the one that gives u the most dps upgrade

Does not take into account that you can socket it, i am pretty sure

[lament dove]

then what does this mean...?

[hollow escarp]

good trinket

[quiet valley]

It means that Hateful chain is a 54 dps upgrade

[lament dove]

then what is expected?:D

[quiet valley]

BUT since there are two possible drops the expected value is 54/2

Or rather sum of all upgrades/available items which in this case 54+0/2

[quiet valley]

Vessel is 84 upgrade, vessel+weapon+head+ring/4 is 54

[lament dove]

what...?

sorry, I just don't get how 84/4 is 54:)

[fallen current]

It’s not 84/4

It’s the dps value add of all 4 items to divided by 4

[quiet valley]

Given that you loot an item, there are 4 possible outcomes (head, trinket, ring or weapon). The expected value if the average of all upgrades (sum/4). The best value is the highest dps upgrade

[lament dove]

why does it show the average of all upgrades and why do I need that info...? what does average of 4 upgrades mean?:D

[quiet valley]

It means that if you loot something thats the average upgrade you would get. My guild uses it to evaluate which player should be in on what boss as we want to maximize raid dps

What info do you want to know?

[lament dove]

e.g. the individual upgrades

so for example if I want to sim a specific item, I guess I have to do it otheerwise

lol never mind

I didn't see the list below this:D

sorry, never checked droptimizer before...

[rose violet]

it tells you the average dps gain per boss and the best item dps value what more do you want

[quiet valley]

Thought i was going to have to explain math but good you found the list

[fallen current]

Math and numbers are hard.

[drifting cloud]

it was more useful when bonus coina were still a thing

[strange python]

how do you guys play the adds in the second phase of the Sire fight? We have quite the AoE burst classes in our raid. Should I apply poisons on every cabalists and also bleeding dots even though they might not live the whole duration or should I just try to focus the adds down with Garrote and Envenom?

[brave vector]

I just bleed up sire and remornia + throw a garrote on a Cabalist if it doesn’t die instantly

[kindred imp]

Reading on DS and places say to take it at higher haste, is there a specific haste break point where I should swap from vigor to DS?

[tired vessel]

Looking at top Night Fae M+ logs for Sin (I'm typically an outlaw M+ main, but having some fun fooling around with sin)

A lot of guys are taking MA leggo with subterfuge. It seems kind of counter intuitive to me? Could someone explain why this is a potent combo; and how a typical opener on an aoe pack would look?

I don't understand why youd want a 100% crit rate leggo out of stealth for 3 seconds, and then a talent designed to spam 3 garrotes (which dont crit to my knowledge). Any insight would be appreciated! Thank you!

[kindred imp]

I did sim, shows +9 dps on DS. Was just wondering if there is some kind of break point where DS starts to take over thats all :)

[jovial horizon]

is there a link to the defensive spreadsheet somewhere?

[limber lion]

There are no haste breakpoints or anything of that sort in the game or hasn't been for years

[limber lion]

Not sure if Whispyr has made it public yet.

You can ask him.

[limber lion]

Generally the go-to is Subtlety with Zoldyck. MA is fine and works as a way to burst bosses/prides/big mobs. It somehow bursts in packs as well with Vanish. You apply bleeds/poisons to everything and then Vanish to make everything around you crit.

But Zoldyck + Subt is more streamlined and easier to play around and often will provide better results.

[tired vessel]

neato, so vanish would be used more to burst packs down; rather than reapply empowered garrotes. makes sense. thanks!

[limber lion]

Yes, but don't get me wrong, you would still apply garrotes to everything after vanishing

But it works better then when you already have multiple garrotes, ruptures and CT already on everything.

[tired vessel]

totes. I dont have Zoldyck's yet, so i was kind of just looking to see how to manage with what i have currently. and was very confused seeing people run the subterfuge + MA setup.

[limber lion]

But I would personally recommend either going full on with the MA niche by going EP NS MFD CT

Or Zoldyck when playing with Subt.

[tired vessel]

word. Same here. in theory anyways.

[limber lion]

I do consistently 7-8k dps in M+ with the MA build with EP NS MFD CT

But there's many options and you just have to try everything out

To see what works the best for you

[tired vessel]

I will give it a try in my next key, are you NF?

[limber lion]

No, Venthyr. NF is actually better for packs.

[tired vessel]

I also see multiple people running niya, and multiple running korayn as well hahaha.

[limber lion]

Also when running with that build, you wamt to MFD from stealth and open with CT

Because NS snapshots CT

[limber lion]

I recommend Korayn for m+ when running Subt/Zoldy and Niya with Herbs when running MA

[tired vessel]

that is a great tip. thank you.

[limber lion]

Good luck!

[strange python]

finally got some better secondary stats for sin after ending my sub career. feels good. 25%, 20% haste, 9% vers, 29% mastery. Startet with like 42% mastery and almost 25% vers xD

*25% crit

[shy axle]

which talents do you prefer for sludge ? Logs seem to say (idk) that people take vigor over ds + ep instead of blindside, is that a realistic thing i should do? why is vigor better then? Because i got more energy stored + more reg for more dmg on the pillars + more lashes from vent?

i just took blindside + ds the last time

[sinful cradle]

ep enables you to do more dmg without relying on RNG (procs from blindside) during pillar phases and vigor enables you to spend more energy within pillar phase also

thats my take atleast

[strange python]

Do you play m+ with vigor or ds?

[brittle pawn]

vigor

[strange python]

thanks

[brittle pawn]

cant get all your garrotes out on a pack with ds

[strange python]

makes sense

[brittle pawn]

some people do mfd

but we dont talk to them

[fervent beacon]

Why wouldn't you not take MFD tho?

[stoic needle]

Energy starvation

[strange python]

saw some people playing with EP on Legion. Why is that?

[manic harness]

Because it was better than the other options

[molten harbor]

Can anyone share a decent M+ Damage breakdown using the normie build?

[molten harbor]

tysm! @balmy condor

Is that with Zolduck?

[calm socket]

hey guys, which legendary would you recommend for a vers/haste night elf assa?

[zinc frost]

Doomblade for ST and Zold for M +

[calm socket]

doomblade is better than Dashing Scoundrel?

[compact pumice]

Doomblade is BIS for ST

[zinc frost]

^

[calm socket]

cheers!!

[balmy condor]

Yes

[winter vapor]

interesting, it moves CT down the overall

[stoic needle]

No it doesn't specifically, I think that's more of a feature of the dungeon

When I do keys with zoldyck CT is top 3

[balmy condor]

I mean, moves it compared to what

[stoic needle]

Depending on the dungeon

[balmy condor]

Compared to NS it’s obviously lower

[stoic needle]

Envenom is rarely above CT for me

[balmy condor]

Here’s a DoS

[molten harbor]

Ohhh ok. I need new shoulders before I can use that legendary, but I am stealth - Gar Gar Gar - Rupture - MFD - CT - Then vanishing when it is time to reapply Gar.

How many Ruptures are you trying to keep up?

[wispy surge]

Hey a bit of a dum dum question: Outlaw works with dagger in offhand right? So i just need 1 weapon to switch between specs

[balmy condor]

Anything that lives long enough

[balmy condor]

Yes

[molten harbor]

Do yo uwait for 4/5 points to apply rupture?

[stoic needle]

I find it a lot easier to keep tons of ruptures up if you do 2-3cp ones instead of 4-5

[balmy condor]

Generally, yes

[stoic needle]

Not many things live a full Rupture anyway

[molten harbor]

@balmy condor How often are you using CT? Just when it falls off/about to fall off? I just feel like I am falling behind on ruptures, but that may just come with practice

[balmy condor]

In pandemic

[molten harbor]

ty. Will try practice and come back :p

[shadow breach]

what item slot do we craft zold?

[balmy condor]

Legs

[fallen arch]

What item slot do we craft MA?

[calm socket]

should I haste/crit or haste/vers the Doomblade?

i would go with haste/verse but not sure

[winter vapor]

@balmy condor it was my understanding that CT should be usually below Rupture overall, but I don't have Zold so

[balmy condor]

That’s usually not true

[balmy condor]

Ring

[balmy condor]

Yep, vers is fine though

[calm socket]

perrfect thanks mate

[fallen arch]

Thanks

[edgy cloak]

I just switched to vent. Do you guys hold second flag for vendetta?

[odd kiln]

!guides

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
RH: https://www.ravenholdt.net/guides/assassination-rogue-guide-shadowlands-raid-dps/
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide

[balmy condor]

Usually no

The default is you don’t hold

If you know for sure that you’re not missing a cast

You sync

[edgy cloak]

I'm talking on a ST in raid setting btw 🙂

[balmy condor]

Yes

[naive surge]

Sure prog tonight, we are getting to p3 but we suck. Should I be running zoldy or doomblade okays?

Sire*

[balmy condor]

Zoldyck most likely

[clever vapor]

when playing with dreadfire vessel, do I use it on cooldown or do I sync it with something?

[balmy condor]

On cooldown

Trinkets are not affected by our abilities

Everything is whitelisted

[clever vapor]

I see, so should I just macro it to mutilate?

would there be any drawbacks?

[steep hamlet]

anyone know how Dauntless Duelist works on sun kings salvation?

[royal lantern]

well, on the target you hit first

[steep hamlet]

im guessing it resets when stuff dies so itll work on shade after adds are cleaned

[royal lantern]

and then when it dies the next target

[steep hamlet]

perfect

[mighty bolt]

Guys, if i got a blindside proc during vanish window (master assasin talent) do i mutilate x2 and envenom or can i envenom ambush mutilate

[lost mist]

If u have active doomblade i think is worth to ambush, because u don't miss the opportunity to proc another ambush and overcap BS... But idk, thats my point (consider too that in some situations u will be energy cap, and the main value of BS is the 0 energy cost, because mut+poison damage isn't much different from an ambush)

Btw, 2x mut+ envenom means 4~6 cp > finisher. And envenom +ambush+mut means???? 0 cp envenom? Are different situations

[limber lion]

You should always look to use the Blindside proc whenever you get it.

[mighty bolt]

i'll always envenom on each master assasin window

vanish on 2cp or on 6cp

ill never vanish on 0cp

anyway with the crit chance u usually get 3-4 cp from each mut

[limber lion]

This is because if you use a Mutilate when you have an Ambush, you throw away one chance at a Blindside proc. Every Mutilate does an extra 20% of Ambush damage in a way.

[lost mist]

I think is better to vanish at 0 cp than 2 cp, because u will still do 2 mut and 1 envenom, if u have 2 cp and get just 2 from your mut, u will be OR casting 4 cp envenom, or maybe overcapping 1~2 cp from your next mut, then envenom

[mighty bolt]

u can mut env mut

if u got crit

[lost mist]

And what if u dont get crit? 4 cp envenom isnt that good

[limber lion]

You need to be really, really, really unlucky to not crit with either Mutilate during a MA window.

Or get parried by the boss.

[lost mist]

Yes but my point is for this

[limber lion]

Neither situation is better or worse. It's such a minimal thing.

Normally you use Shiv before Vanish anyways, so you'll rarely start at 0 CP.

Also if you know your Vanish is coming up and you're sitting at 5cp having used Shic then just chill and slam a 5cp envenom with your vanish instead of finishing and then using vanish.

But like said, none of these micro minmaxing things really make a difference in the grand scheme.

As long as you press Vanish and use 3 abilities (2x mut, 1x Env or 3x mut), you'll be gucci.

[lost mist]

That way u have pooled more energy to envenom more times inside a shiv btw

[lost mist]

3x mut for eugenes like me 😢

2+2+2

[limber lion]

Very, very, very, very unlikely.

[mighty bolt]

almost never

[lost mist]

Hahaha

[limber lion]

If you're at 30% base crit

Let's say 25% base crit

[lost mist]

Yeah, but the odds are there, it is like the 35% double hit of sinister as outlaw

😢

[limber lion]

You have 75% crit chance to hit with either hand

And you do that twice

[frigid kestrel]

Should I drop IQD for M+ and use my Dreadfire instead?

[limber lion]

So you generate combo points 4 times

[frigid kestrel]

Like everyone keeps saying it’s a sim trap

[limber lion]

No, IQD is amazing in M+

Sim traps don't really exist.

[frigid kestrel]

That’s why I been using it

[shy dust]

IQD is an amazing trinket

[frigid kestrel]

Just been checking what people have been using and it’s odd that I see everything else but IQD

[limber lion]

IQD can perform worse in raid scenarios, but in M+ you should always have a chance at secondaries.

Even in most raid scenarios you do.

[frigid kestrel]

(Also I only checked like 7)

I use IQD religiously in raid

Just starting to question it in keys

I want to get that 223 PVP trinket and see how that works in Keys tho

[limber lion]

Back to this.

You have a 0.3% chance of not critting with either mutilate.

That's once every 330ish times you do that.

[limber lion]

That's also a great choice, just a matter of preference mainly.

[lost mist]

Which 223 pvp trink?

[limber lion]

Insignia.

[frigid kestrel]

^ ye that

[lost mist]

🤔🤔 Crit or haste one? Idk if i know what are u talking

[limber lion]

No, it procs main stat for you passively.

[lost mist]

Ohhh, that one, it is good? I use dfv+skulkers and i hate it

I can stand 2 on use in raid

But for m+ is just :(((

[limber lion]

It's fine

[frigid kestrel]

I use Phial and IQD in raid and M+

[limber lion]

IQD and Phial are "bis" for m+

A 233 DFV also pumps.

[frigid kestrel]

Ye if you got a mythic Sire kill, sadly I have only acquired the 220 DFV. We progging on Blood and it’s painful

[limber lion]

This is by the way a 0.02% chance of happening with 25% base crit and MA. Meaning once in 5000.

[limber lion]

Actually let's dive a little deeper as well

Let's assume that you use Vanish every 2 minutes with no exceptions, meaning that you'd always be in an encounter.

It would take you approximately 600 000 seconds of active play time to ever be so unlucky where you don't crit with any of the 3 mutilates.

Meaning 166.67 hours or approx 7 days.

So I think you'll be just fine even if you vanish at 0 combo points. :p

[potent rune]

does master assasin work on dreadfire or skulkers?

[limber lion]

No

[potent rune]

too bad

[limber lion]

Our talents/abilities don't work with any trinkets.

[potent rune]

dang it

[limber lion]

Neither does the MA legendary.

[potent rune]

how about the items in necro wake? i know ma doesnt anymore but what about the talent?

[balmy condor]

No

[potent rune]

dang

[balmy condor]

The talent has never worked

No matter how much jpc wants to believe it does

:P

I think he’s caught on

But it was a common misconception at the start of 9.0.5

[potent rune]

can someone explain to me what exactkly does the quantam device do? it just says ??? on it

[balmy condor]

It has the opportunities to give stats, do damage, give mana to an ally, or heal an ally

[gloomy fern]

oh god joins a pug for 6 kills, they end run after 5 wasting muh time

[potent rune]

can we target which one it does?

[balmy condor]

If an ally is low mana, it will give mana, if an ally is low health, it will give health, if the target is low health, it will do damage, and otherwise it will give you one of your highest stats

[gloomy fern]

better get a 233 dagger for this

[balmy condor]

There’s a weakaura which helps you track what effect it will give

[potent rune]

ah kk

how long does the buff lasts if it doesn that? i assume 20secs?

[balmy condor]

I think 20, and 25 in lust

But for some reason I’m thinking 30

[potent rune]

kk ty much appreciated

[solar flicker]

macro to target urself eliminates the execute portion apparently

[limber lion]

The self-target macro doesn't work as it did previously, and now you have to use a macro that removes your target, casts IQD and then targets your last target.

[soft shale]

just bruteforce it like me

f1

[limber lion]

The execute also does quite a bit of damage, it's not necessarily worth it to always self-cast it.

It's comparable to DFV.

[fossil wasp]

!stats

[prisma monolith]

**Shadowlands: ** Haste > Versatility => Critical Strike => Mastery

[cyan pine]

What am I missing if I have the same setup my sim has, but I cant reach the DPs number it posted? i.e. it's 3.3-ish and I can't break 3 outside of burst damage.

[limber lion]

Consumables? Raid buffs? Are you simming target dummy or patchwork?

Are you using Vanish?

Vanish resets details at least for most.

[worldly bridge]

hey i'm struggling with add shield / recital on MM Council so i went out and checked some top10 Sin warcraftlogs

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/HcGMz9ZpyfDVPAja#fight=21&type=casts&source=20&start=3553108&end=3580636

i dont understand this guy's opening sequence. Opens with ambush and immediately Vendetta

[tulip nacelle]

iqd also removes cc, our spriest actually used it on slg cause our disc didn't come to raid, so he ran it to clear crystalize that we would normaly leap

[limber lion]

The openers don't really matter as much as you'd think. You should just sim yourself in a quick sim in Raidbots and use the cast sequence there as a reference for your opener.

Or just follow any of these guides:

!guide

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
RH: https://www.ravenholdt.net/guides/assassination-rogue-guide-shadowlands-raid-dps/
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide

[limber lion]

The log you linked definitely doesn't use an optimal rotation, but moving one gcd, using Ambush instead of Muti or using Vendetta early doesn't really matter honestly.

[worldly bridge]

i mean i understang the generic opener

[limber lion]

What matters more is everything that happens after the opener. Like how you handle multi-dotting, maintaining bleeds, using Shiv on CD, not capping on resources and whatnot.

There are just some outliers who do whatever they want in the opener and still parse well

Just goes to show that opener doesn't matter as much.

[worldly bridge]

but on council it feels slightly different than other fights

[limber lion]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/TD9xYFwVaM2v73HK#fight=24&type=casts&source=8&view=timeline

[worldly bridge]

cuz shield add is fucking up precious shiv/vendetta seconds. Same for recital

[limber lion]

Like this dude is using MA and he still opens Gar - Muti - Snd, which is very not optimal.

[brave vector]

You shouldn’t expect to always hit your sim dps

[limber lion]

And he's the #1 parse outside of the people using PI.

[worldly bridge]

yeah i was analyzing this one too and i was like wtf has it changed ?

[limber lion]

No, the rotation is still the exact same.

You just have to account for multi-dotting and Attendants.

[worldly bridge]

idk if im supposed to pretend attendants doesnt exist, regarding shiv casts and line ups

[limber lion]

You have to make that choice.

[worldly bridge]

like i usually setup burst window by shiving and vanish

[limber lion]

It really depends on how long the attendants live, does your tank kite the boss at all and so on

Most of the openers just open on the boss right away and switch to the attendant at 15s

[patent topaz]

how much of a gain on main target is fully dotting a secondary target supposed to be

[limber lion]

But some just bleed everything up and only open on the main boss after the attendant is dead.

[patent topaz]

I did some dummy tests and it wasnt an increase

[limber lion]

It is quite a large increase.

[worldly bridge]

i suck at multidotting especially this fight. Any advices / setup / WA / tools that might help ?

[limber lion]

Keeping both garrote and rupture up on a secondary target that is poisoned

It is a large upgrade.

Even so if the secondary target is not immune to damage, like in Council

[patent topaz]

was -100 dps compared to just ST on dummies

[limber lion]

But even then it's worth to multi-dot them

[patent topaz]

so idk

[limber lion]

You're doing something wrong then.

[patent topaz]

perhaps

but it was almost full bleed/poison uptime on secondary

[worldly bridge]

• when 2nd target isnt poisoned do you wait for melees hit to naturally poison and pool energy or do you throw a knife ?

[soft shale]

do you auto the other one to refresh or use fok

[patent topaz]

4800 dummy dps on main target

[unkempt parcel]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination WA's:
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)

[limber lion]

Either you get poisons on the target with melee when you're applying garrote/rup, or you just Muti it once.

Here's Koji's sim regarding prio-damage on a 2T scenario

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/5WZeVLEFZRKxV7mwWWMKu7

[limber lion]

Then I'm guessing you're doing something else wrong on the main target.