assassination

[final star]

when the healer is struggling

cloak+ health pot

[hollow escarp]

yeah cloak on pride is pretty big

[final star]

ignore me for a bit

[sullen pagoda]

what pepegas you guys play with that dont pop some kind of personal when needed

[hollow escarp]

pugs usually

don't play that much

I did more +15 and up keys yesterday than I did in the last 3 weeks

[final star]

your average +15 doesn't tend to use their defensives unless they think they will die

[hollow escarp]

pretty fun to do keys with consistent group

[final star]

they don't understand that using a cd to remove pressure from the healer is way more valuable

when it will be back up for something that will kill you

[heavy trail]

Going to alternate sub/assassin how critical is it to take necro will do mainly smallmythics and some pvp.... also wondering how tedious/fun is adding bonespike to m+ dot management haha. Would just like some thoughts.

[prisma crescent]

Bonespike is quite nice in M+

[strange python]

So my dungeon slice is simming that doomblade leggo is better then running zoldyck hmmm am i smoking something ?

[final star]

people forget that their defensives usually have a 2 min cd

[hollow escarp]

link the sim

[final star]

and will come back up

[strange python]

@hollow escarp https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/vbXRXyY4732sqW26YuhQXn

[final star]

when they need it

[hollow escarp]

it's not a big difference though

[final star]

225 legendary

is the diff

[strange python]

hmm true ^^

[final star]

as well as stat differences

[prisma crescent]

I was thinking stat difference too

[final star]

that's the only difference in gear

between top and zoldyck

[hollow escarp]

doomblade shoulders and zoldyck boots

[balmy condor]

225 vs 235 legendary, off pieces, and zoldyck boots

[final star]

you've made both legendaries

on the wrong slots

[hollow escarp]

but it's fine

[limber lion]

Zoldyck boots gang rise up

[final star]

[hollow escarp]

that's why you prefer MA?

[final star]

agi value in the bin

[hollow escarp]

[final star]

my zoldyck is on legs

my doomblade is on hands

[hollow escarp]

Finality

I think I'm gonna upgrade my Finality for Council fights

[heavy trail]

@prisma crescent not a pain to manage ?

[final star]

absolute mad lad

[heavy trail]

Would have to find a keybind for bonespike hmmm

[hollow escarp]

same as sepsis/flag/echo

or Blood of the Enemy last expac

or Kingsbane

[final star]

Kingsbane double dipping on poison

was so hilarious

til it got fixed

Kingsbane being close to top damage for a bit

[prisma crescent]

It took a couple dungeons to get used to but I ended up enjoying it

[final star]

fok being main builder for a bit

legion was something

[heavy trail]

it's ranged hmm might be able to get away with a mouseover for it

[final star]

should mouseover it for sure

[prisma crescent]

mouseover is almost mandatory for sbs

[final star]

/cast [@mouseover,harm,nodead][] Serrated Bone Spike

[heavy trail]

For sure or can even macro it to say like the same as my rupture bind (which is only target) sothat it will do sbs on mouseovers only thus sharing the keybind... might be a bit unprecise in tight scenarios though haha 🙂

[prisma crescent]

Worse case scenario you hate it and switch back next week

Best case you like it and stay

Not a huge deal either way

[hollow escarp]

it's also nice to have renown up there whenever you will wanna play the covenant in the future

I'm tempted to swap to necrolord soon

[heavy trail]

I am only 58 atm though so only have the hidden renown with venthyr so far

probably not a big deal and honestly ive done 3-4 toons venthyr so a bit bored of that campaign NL would be fresh kinda do when i hiut 60

[final star]

dw

a guy in my guild forgot to activate soulbind

He only put conduits in

He was 32 renown

[tawdry radish]

is zoyldidkckick bugged?

it seems like its not doing extra dam in execute

[balmy condor]

It’s working fine

Do you have logs showing that it’s not doing extra damage?

Should be fairly easy to double check tick damage

[final star]

my average p1 hc denathrius

average for p3

definitely working

[tawdry radish]

ye I think I just expected a bit more impact looking at the log but when I look at the actual numbers it pretty much adds up

[prisma monolith]

Simulations:
Herodamage: https://www.herodamage.com/rogue/
Bloodmallet: https://bloodmallet.com/index.html

[limber lion]

Yeah, it's hard to see the damage difference between a Zoldyck or say Doomblade in execute because you've already been hitting the boss for several minutes prior

It would be much more easy to see when comparing them against a target that is always in execute range, like the Wrath of Azshara in the Eye of Azshara dungeon in Legion

But we don't have anything similar to that in SL

Just gotta sim it and trust the sims :p

[final star]

muezala is the best we got

on high keys

[limber lion]

True or when one of your DPS forgets to press the vessel after killing the add

[final star]

yeah lol

[torn atlas]

I've never done that before. Nope never.

[strange python]

is venthyr the choice when i want to do mostly assa for st bosses and swap to outlaw for cleave/aoe situations?

[limber lion]

Venthyr or Necro is fine. Venthyr for more ST, Necro for more AoE.

[hollow barn]

LOL

[frosty cedar]

does memory of past sins benefit from MA talent

[limber lion]

No.

None of the trinkets do.

[frosty cedar]

yeah thought so 😛

aite cool cheers

[pseudo hamlet]

The margin of error can be slighty higher than the "~3DPS" mentioned in the simulation details, yeah?
(got 4 DPS difference between crit gem + haste ring ench and haste gem + crit ring ench lol)

[limber lion]

Gems/Enchants are all very, very marginal differences. Doesn't really matter honestly.

Only scenario I can think of where secondaries actually mattered, were if you used IQD as a trinket.

[sweet fable]

Wa!

[limber lion]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination WA's:
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)

[limber lion]

😉

[pseudo hamlet]

Got Phial and Ooze trinkets, so wont change anything in my gear 🙂

[limber lion]

There we go then :p

[sweet fable]

Thanks !

[balmy condor]

+-3 dps is per profile. So a difference of 4 dps can be one profile +2 and another -2, which is all within margin

With 3 dps on the error, you would have to see at minimum 7 dps difference to be out of the error margin

[pseudo hamlet]

Oh, I get it now! Thanks!

[balmy condor]

Np

[thin obsidian]

is lightless force best tu us ein m+ for both daggers?

best to use

[limber lion]

You can sim it, but pretty sure most people just stick to Celestial + Sinful because we use those in the raid

Not sure if it's worth swapping them around

But sim it and see how well it does

[thin obsidian]

i mean only m+ then?

[limber lion]

Yeh just sim it

[thin obsidian]

okay will do

[limber lion]

Celestial + Lightless might be the play

But hard to say.

[thin obsidian]

will check

ty

[bright elk]

Hey do you guys switch to Outlaw for M+ and stay Sin for Raid or just switch talents? I'm sure it's personal preference but looking for opinions.

[limber lion]

I just play Assa in all content that I do.

It's completely fine up to +20 pug keys, probably even higher with good groups.

A lot of people play Sin in the raid and Outlaw in M+

[bright elk]

I played sin all bfa and outlaw from 9.0 to 9.05. The one button aoe kinda spoiled me.

I used to spam CT before that like an idiot.

[limber lion]

:p yeh you can play whichever spec you want and do perfectly well on both

[bright elk]

Thanks 👍

[limber lion]

[gusty mirage]

So fun fact, if you switch covenants your conduit energy doesn’t reset.

[pure moth]

I pugged sire last night and another person told me to use aoe trinkets... and or go outlaw...

[gusty mirage]

Maybe they’ve never seen phase 2 or 3

[weak horizon]

loooool

i mean outlaw is better p2 if you need more add damage

but other than that you can't beat sin's sire dmg

[gusty mirage]

I’m a big fan of the “use aoe trinkets” suggestion though

[weak horizon]

looool wtf is an aoe trinket

[gusty mirage]

Nothing like using decanter on a fight where positioning in scuffed the entire time

[weak horizon]

yeah

[gusty mirage]

Should work out great

Pugging is legit the funniest thing ever sometimes

[stoic needle]

Tbh sin kinda pumps on p2

I wouldn't say outlaw is strictly better there

[arctic folio]

hello there , noob question , Why do we have to open with mutilate instead of ambush ? same energy cost same combot point granted but ambush deal more domage than mutilate ?

[gusty mirage]

!mut

[prisma monolith]

Ambush is currently only used from blindside/sepsis proc, not from stealth.
The reasoning is a little complicated, but the most important of them is the difference in combo points on crit (up to 4 vs 3).
Some other factors to consider are increased poison applications, blindside, and doomblade. This is true for all talent combinations and legendaries.

[gusty mirage]

^

[arctic folio]

ok thx 🙂

[gusty mirage]

[burnt star]

I play sin on slg :) mythic

Top damage on intermission. And last p3.
But mostly its because zoldyc helps destroy those shell

[molten harbor]

Is sin rogue worth learning in M+? Or is Outlaw just that much better?

[gusty mirage]

That’s a personal call on your end, it’s definitely a lot more effort than outlaw for m+ but can do similar damage and if set ups are your thing can be infinitely more rewarding for you

There are people timing 19s and 20s as assa now

So it’s definitely doable

[burnt star]

IMO. Sin is way more fun in m+

[molten harbor]

Is there any good guides on how to play sin is M+? I know it kinda felt like no one I know did anything about it this tier, and I am a new player that is just starting to get into higher m+

[burnt star]

But i also prefer sin over ourlaw

[molten harbor]

Is it just Garrote things on CD and use Crimson tempest?

[burnt star]

Tip 1) use your cd.. dont wait too much
Tip2) learn to play with mfd

[gusty mirage]

@limber lion has been doin a buncha higher keys as assa lately and pumping. I haven’t had the balls to test it yet, so I’m unfortunately not a good resource for it atm

[burnt star]

Takes practice to get the hang out of it though

[molten harbor]

Oh yea, using mfd would probably be a good idea

[burnt star]

Opener is something like. Gar-gar-gar-rupt-mfd-CT

Never hold shiv ever

Even if ur not gonna envenom

[gusty mirage]

And there’s a few builds people have been tinkering with, but the basic one afaik is similar to what it was in bfa. 3 garrotes into CT, fok at 4+ targets and spread ruptures while maintaining CT and keeping up 5-6 bleeds for energy regen

[molten harbor]

I generally use my cds when they are up, unless it the end of a pack

[gusty mirage]

Someone who’s actually done it can comment better

[molten harbor]

And isn't Garrote on a 6 second cd?

[burnt star]

Not with subt

[gusty mirage]

If you play subterfuge you can get 4 off before hitting the 6s CD

[molten harbor]

OHHHH

[burnt star]

U also use vanish to refresh gar

[molten harbor]

I didn't know that was a thing.... I have been doing some things wrong

[burnt star]

Even on a boss

[molten harbor]

Do you mean like the BFA thing where you can have 2 different Garrotes on a target?

[burnt star]

On pack. With 6 mob or more that lives long enough. U can do gar gar gar rup. Mfd ct. Vanish. Gar gar gar rupt. Shiv

[gusty mirage]

Oh that’s the garrote silence that comes up as 2

[burnt star]

No. Its the same

[molten harbor]

ohh ty @gusty mirage

[burnt star]

U never refresh an enpoweree gar with a regular 1

[gusty mirage]

Yeah subt with shrouded suffocation was so good

[burnt star]

Empowered gar are the one done from stealth with subt talent

[molten harbor]

And I should be maintaining slice and dice also for energy regen right?

[gusty mirage]

They removed that in 9.0.5 so you can ignore snd in big aoe pulls

[frosty cedar]

slice and dice energy regen got removed

[molten harbor]

Ohh ok.

What all does add into our energy regen? (and ty all for the help everyone. Started at the end of BFA and just getting into M+ now)

[pure moth]

He was using decanters as outlaw

[gusty mirage]

Bleeds + poisons, which is why you’d ideally want 5-6 bleeds up

[gusty mirage]

[molten harbor]

That makes so much sense. tyty

[gusty mirage]

@pure moth maybe he didn’t have anything better?

[molten harbor]

Ok and last question before I go practice in some keys, I want to build points with fan and use tempest when I am not dotting correct?

[gusty mirage]

Also crimson tempest doesn’t count toward venomous wounds for some reason

[pure moth]

Who knows.... i figured it was a sign of bad things.. so i left group lol

[gusty mirage]

Yeah, and when specced into CT you would use it on single target outside of shiv windows

You use fan as a builder anytime there’s 4 or more targets

[molten harbor]

gotcha. ty again 😄

[next solar]

where my necro bois at https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/6WgmQ1ciskMfyvY5LZeCkc

[frosty cedar]

necr

[sick cairn]

will flagellation be up? if we use it on pull on sludge?

quick question

for first pillar?

[patent topaz]

no

[sick cairn]

oh so we save it for first pull?

i mean pillar*

[patent topaz]

you do cds on pull, 2nd and 4th pillar

with lust on 4th

[sick cairn]

oh really?

[patent topaz]

save flag for vendetta

[sick cairn]

use everything on pull?

even phantom fire?

or save phantom for last pillar?

[patent topaz]

you can do pot on pull and then at 5 mins or just once in lust

[sick cairn]

alright

thanks

so on pull,2ndpillar,and 4th pillar

got it

what if we lust on 1st pillar

lmao i just heard them discuss

[patent topaz]

then you are bad

or are you talking about heroic?

[sick cairn]

heroic

were discussing 3rd pillar

is taht okay?

[patent topaz]

uh then it doesnt matter

[sick cairn]

if the lust is on 3rd pillar

oh

so wahts the plan?

im on HC

[patent topaz]

I mean its hc anything works

[sick cairn]

oh okay

we are lusting on 1st pillar

[patent topaz]

if you lust 3rd pillar then you pop cds on 1 and 3

[sick cairn]

so save CDs?

ohh

okay

[patent topaz]

and save on pull

[sick cairn]

got it

thanks dude

i can use shiv right?

sicne its low cooldown

relatively

[patent topaz]

you can shiv twice at the start

then only once between pillars

[sick cairn]

got it

[agile geode]

swapped today to necro do u think the loss of dps is really only about 100?

mi sims tell me this

or could be more duel to mechanics of fights?

in raid i mean

[lean coral]

Never played necro personally but managing the spikes in aoe seems like something I don't wanna deal with

Btw I finally got a dreadfire last night does vendetta buff the dmg on it or do I just launch it on CD

[drowsy snow]

increasing the damage your abilities and auto attacks deal to the target by 30%

[plucky isle]

Is assasination a fun spec to play compared to outlaw? I still have a hard time deciding on what spec to pick on my rogue....

[frail fossil]

u have to decide that on ur own

[limber lion]

It depends on what you conside fun

[frail fossil]

everyone finds different things fun

play both

[lament dove]

fun is relative

[frail fossil]

and see for urself

[limber lion]

Yeh

A lot of Outlaw players despise Assa and vice versa

[frail fossil]

but if u like fast paced game play : outlaw
if u like planning ahead but a bit slower : assa

[limber lion]

You just have to try them both and see which one you like

[storm forum]

Hello, I am an Assassination player that despises Outlaw

[stoic needle]

Hello, I am an Assassination player that also likes outlaw

Molten take: all rogue specs are fun

[limber lion]

Agree, I like all specs myself as well but I just like Assa just a tad bit more than the others.

[storm forum]

how dare you all not have the exact same preferences as myself!

[thorny rose]

for next April Fools we should only discuss subjective things like which spec is most fun

no stats or theorycrafting. only vibes

[limber lion]

That's every day already

Deathly is better because I feel like it's better

Ambush is better because it does more damage

Vigor is better because it feels better

[old depot]

When do you guys use feint in CN/M+? Are there fights/scenarios where you should aim to have a higher uptime n feint?

[limber lion]

You rarely want to press feint because it eats up your energy so you do less dps.

Jokes aside, there are not many fights where you want to use it.

[gloomy fern]

remove it from ur bar

dps loss

[thorny rose]

is that so? My sin guildy said he uses it a ton

[gloomy fern]

troll

u use it p3 sire

[thorny rose]

[limber lion]

You can use it on Stone Legion's Wicked Blades, Sludgefist when he hits the pillar etc.

[stoic needle]

Imagine dying cuz u didn't feint

[limber lion]

healers fault

[stoic needle]

I feint all the time on pride

And when any mob even looks at me funny tbh

[old depot]

does it help with hungerings beams?

[limber lion]

There are quite a few scenarios in M+ where you want to feint actually

[stoic needle]

It does

I love our defensives in m+ tbh, one of my favorite parts of our class

[old depot]

I guess use it whenever theres damage and youre forced to be away from combat, otherwise dont?

[stoic needle]

I wish whispyr would hurry up and release that sheet so I know whether I'm wasting them or not

[limber lion]

If you think you're gonna die from a mechanic, use it

[stoic needle]

Yeah I mean like there's just so many uses for it it's almost hard to think of examples

[limber lion]

If you're 100% sure that you won't, then don't.

It's hard to say when you want to use it.

[stoic needle]

In high keys it feels like everything fucking one shots you so I just feint all the time

[limber lion]

It's generally better to use it and not die than to not use it and die.

[supple compass]

how do you get 227 bag ilvl without 233 gear

[limber lion]

Not sure if you can.

[brittle pawn]

max should be like 226.6 or something with all 226 and leggo

[spice spire]

^

[limber lion]

Yeh just checked, with all 226 items and a 235 legendary you're sitting at 225 ilvl

[brittle pawn]

maybe it rounds

[limber lion]

Wait no it's fucked

[frail fossil]

233 items guys

[brittle pawn]

225?

[spice spire]

225?

[limber lion]

Average Item Level: 227.00

[spice spire]

The 235 makes the ilvl round down,I see

[limber lion]

Yeah with all 226 items and a 235 legendary, you're at exactly 227 ilvl

[hollow escarp]

why feint when you can cloak?

[spice spire]

Oh nice

[thin inlet]

cloak might be down

[tired sparrow]

if im only going to be doing M+ around 15's should i go necro or venth?

[limber lion]

Doesn't matter.

[thin inlet]

shouldn’t matter

at all

[thorny rose]

whichever one you like better

[thin inlet]

you can even kyrian at that point

if you prefer it

[thorny rose]

venthyr has the cooler mog

[limber lion]

Venthyr is easier to play with, Necro is really high apm when played properly

[tired sparrow]

p sure i like necro best tbh

[strange python]

Omg grill

[limber lion]

Then go with necro

[thin inlet]

necro is very nice for outlaw, don’t like it too much for assa

it’s a lot more awkward

[strange python]

I might just make a second rogue

[stoic needle]

Because cloak has a 2min CD

[tired sparrow]

flagellation just seems pretty useless for aoe situations

[hollow escarp]

and a dungeon has 5 prides

in 30 min

[brittle pawn]

there's no way 6 ilvl on offhand gives another .8 ilvl, yours is getting rounded up i guess?

@limber lion

[hollow escarp]

Prepared for All conduit btw @stoic needle 😉

[stoic needle]

Imagine kicking

[limber lion]

It's straight from a sim

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/cpmEYsGPXLsjaeU6hioWBQ/simc

[stoic needle]

Jk

[brittle pawn]

hm

[limber lion]

https://gyazo.com/567ce3458154e5b62d7c26c20cb646fd?token=593b3ceb4adb08ceadb059621b0c53e6

Yeah looks like the sim is actually rounding it up to an equal number tbh

[brittle pawn]

yea

[limber lion]

Weird how it still says .00

If it doesn't even account for decimals

[brittle pawn]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[vestal wren]

idk, what did you end up with in the calculation ?

[brittle pawn]

should be 226.56

[limber lion]

In-game I have 225.81 ilvl according to Elvui's overlay with the setup that has 220 + 226 trinkets and weapons, but SimC suggest 226 flat.

Just tried it again by only switching either the trinket or the weapon

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/gcsiLkzowTW8NW2uf2DaJ2/simc

[vestal wren]

it probably rounds down

[limber lion]

And it's saying the same thing

Yeah, doesn't really matter. Someone was just asking how someone has 227 bag ilvl without any 233 items

[brittle pawn]

rounds off to closest

[limber lion]

Any idea whether or not the LFG tool rounds to the closer flat number?

[brittle pawn]

i think that also rounds off

[hollow escarp]

we can test

are you online?

[limber lion]

How would you test that?

You can't exactly change your bag ilvl

Unless you get new items

[hollow escarp]

ooooh

I see

[limber lion]

But yeah, literally doesn't matter. Just answered someone's question about that :p

[balmy condor]

Put the items in your bank

[brittle pawn]

i dont think you can ever lower your bag ilvl

[limber lion]

Tbh I don't care enough either

[brittle pawn]

its highest obtained per slot

if it works the same way as tradable loot does

[balmy condor]

Sadge

[hollow escarp]

don't think people care that much about bag ilvl as they used to before when titanforging was a thing

[brittle pawn]

because getting 226 in all slots is conceivable

having max tf everywhere, not so much

[drowsy coral]

Hey guys, does cloak of shadow work on anihilate on xymox MM?

[limber lion]

Yes

[drowsy coral]

Thanks

[limber lion]

Highly recommend you use it to clear stasis traps with it though. :p

[drowsy coral]

We do have immune but these players are not very mechanically skilled aha, might've to do them tonight

Thanks for the info as always Cev

[placid dawn]

is sin agood spec for slg? thinking about using outlul. Which would be better for prog(Assuming I enjoy both specs)

[balmy condor]

No

Slg is sin’s worst fight

You can play it for boss damage but you’ll do nothing to adds

[placid dawn]

cool, ill go outlaw. Thanks

[tidal gorge]

0% wipe on SLG last night. 3700 hp left

[placid dawn]

should have prepotted :/

[limber lion]

No worries, good luck! :p

[limber lion]

Ouch. You'll get it for sure!

[bitter drift]

Shriek+Hungering+Artificer+Council+Sludge+Sire = Sin
Huntsman+Inerva+SunKing++SLG = Outlaw
This is my preferred way at least.

[stoic needle]

Sin's 2 target is better than outlaws so I prefer it for huntsman and inerva tbh. Council is a ST fight, and sun king is about the shields where sin is better as well

[brittle pawn]

yea literally only slg better for outlaw

[bitter drift]

I do better on Altimor as OL and you’re right about Council I put it in wrong list.

[brittle pawn]

that's a you problem

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/26#boss=2418

sin better at all percentiles

[bitter drift]

Lol please see “this is my preferred way at least statement”

[minor thicket]

hey guys i have a question about ambush, how often do we use/incorporate it?

[brittle pawn]

!ambush

[prisma monolith]

Macroing Ambush to Mutilate only works with the use of a addon.
It comes with the downside that it often requires multiple key presss.
Suggested addon to use(Gnome Sequencer):http://tiny.cc/mxb6tz
Showcase Video: #assassination message

[brittle pawn]

!mut

[prisma monolith]

Ambush is currently only used from blindside/sepsis proc, not from stealth.
The reasoning is a little complicated, but the most important of them is the difference in combo points on crit (up to 4 vs 3).
Some other factors to consider are increased poison applications, blindside, and doomblade. This is true for all talent combinations and legendaries.

[minor thicket]

that doesnt answer any of my question

[bitter drift]

I’d rather have Blind range + Gouge + Grappling on Hunts for our current group. It’s more about the utility than sheer number. I mean none of it is quite prog but it’s not always a 1 shot either @brittle pawn

[brittle pawn]

i dont care that you broke your elbow

[bitter drift]

@minor thicket on Blindside procs

[brittle pawn]

then you can't read

[bitter drift]

Uh what?

[brittle pawn]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rF-HEE6PepI

[strange python]

Hey where would i be able to find what the best trinkets are for aoe assasin rogues ?

[brittle pawn]

they're close enough that it doesn't matter anyway. not like you're playing sub on it

[brittle pawn]

https://castle-nathria.subcreation.net/

[hollow barn]

!bis

[limber lion]

You use it whenever you get a proc with Blindside, other than that you don't press it.

[balmy condor]

[hollow barn]

[limber lion]

You can sim it yourself by using Droptimizer in Raidbots. Just set the target count to 5+.

[strange python]

Ah k Thanks cev

[limber lion]

You can also use Herodamage.com for reference

But with a pinch of salt.

[strange python]

il use a little bit of both just wanted to know what most trustworthy 🙂

[balmy condor]

Simming your own character is always more trustworthy

[strange python]

so i just create most trinkets 220 and compare for 5 bosses ?

[balmy condor]

Yea

[bitter drift]

!bis command should just say “Sim Yourself”. ForeverGuy would love it

[strange python]

For how many mins ?

[balmy condor]

I would do like 2

Minimum

The pins for aoe do 5 min

[bitter drift]

Phial and Dreadfire

[balmy condor]

It’s really up to you

[odd flax]

IQD execute worth doing assuming no cds up for 30 sec?

[balmy condor]

Dreadfire probably loses in aoe

[strange python]

i have both but decanter 223 simmed better then dreadfire in aoe

[limber lion]

Yeh I don't see Dreadfire being good in aoe

[balmy condor]

Yeh

[red bloom]

Pretty non spec specific, but is stampeding roar breaking shroud/ stealth? Been having a good few mishaps with shroud breaking perceivably out of nowhere

[limber lion]

Are you using Theotar?

[bitter drift]

I mean “AoE” I just assume to refer to M+ content. In which case Phial and Dread are a great combo.

[limber lion]

Token of Appreciation breaks stealth if you gain a beneficial magic effect or heal.

[stoic needle]

[red bloom]

Oh it’s my fault then?

[limber lion]

It's Blizzard's fault.

[red bloom]

Ah shit I didn’t think of that

[limber lion]

Just use Wasteland instead of Token.

[hollow barn]

[bitter drift]

Arguably the “BiS” combo for trinkets in both ST and M+, but Realistically ilvl is king cause a 213 Dread is a lot less sim damage than a 226 skulkers even though Skulk is trash IMO

[red bloom]

Fair, cheers it’s been confusing me and me mates

[stoic needle]

https://tenor.com/view/sim-simyoself-gif-20048910

Typing !bis should post this

[bitter drift]

I like that one

[royal lantern]

@vestal wren you know what too do thx

[stoic needle]

If you have an accursed keepsake from the prepatch in your inventory, whenever you get the ghost proc it gives you token of appreciation

Because it's a buff

[vestal wren]

not add the gif because we don't want to meme people?

[limber lion]

I was just about to say that OT is for memes

[stoic needle]

It's not a meme if it's the right answer

[balmy condor]

Because blizzard is weird

[limber lion]

Blizzard leaves a lot of things unsaid.

[balmy condor]

Yeh

[soft shale]

they want to cull player skill in the game

[royal lantern]

why isnt kicks and dispells/purges explained in the new tutorial? because blizzard is weird

[limber lion]

Haste still reads "Increases energy regeneration and attack speed"

Even though it affects bleed/poison tick rate as well.

[balmy condor]

Well no lie there

[storm forum]

technically affecting bleed tick rate increases energy regen

[balmy condor]

[stoic needle]

That's double dipping on the energy regen scaling

[royal lantern]

i mean, haste DOES affecct your energy reg

[balmy condor]

Yes

[royal lantern]

its just almost nothing you get

1more energy for 10%haste if im right

[balmy condor]

Yep

[limber lion]

Giga.

[royal lantern]

yeha thats why assassination just FEELS SO GOOD NOW WITH 2%MORE HASTE

[balmy condor]

But IT FEEEEEELS SO GOOOOOD

[stoic needle]

Sin with 14.99% haste is literally unplayable

[royal lantern]

i got gloves that have 14more haste then my old gloves, IT FEELS SO GOOD

[stoic needle]

I don't make the facts

It's just simple maths

[balmy condor]

No

[limber lion]

How much haste do you guys have? I only have 21% and it feels so slow??

[storm forum]

we should tell people 696 and 969 haste are the break points

[tribal mauve]

i have around 18/19 with Doomblade gloves @limber lion

[royal lantern]

22%it feels so gooooooood

[balmy condor]

To you

[royal lantern]

[balmy condor]

?

Sure I can

[storm forum]

they're both worse than MA

is what whispyr's saying

[balmy condor]

Would Subt or nightstalker be better

No

It is not

[stoic needle]

To answer your question though subterfuge is the better of the two for ST

[balmy condor]

Neither one is

Probably really close

Subterfuge usually wins by a little

[ornate raptor]

22% haste feels good to me

[balmy condor]

I mean

If that’s what your heart desires

[brittle pawn]

i dont htink you understand how little that matters over the course of a fight

[stoic needle]

It's not good

[brittle pawn]

what is that scenario

[soft shale]

if you have around 1k or more mastery maybe worth

[balmy condor]

Realistically, subterfuge and nightstalker are basically equal

[soft shale]

but then you have 1k mastery

instead of real stats

[balmy condor]

But both worse in every single target situation

[balmy condor]

I’m done

[soft shale]

read the next phrase

aaaaa

[stoic needle]

If by some unfortunate twist of fate you have NS and DS at the same time that would be the optimal opener yes but good luck getting 6cp and being in stealth

[balmy condor]

But like

It’s not even true

[stoic needle]

Hater

[soft shale]

tbh that just might be as envenom would also be buffed and poisons too

[balmy condor]

That’s exactly why

It’s not true

But we just say shit I guess

[soft shale]

poor nightstalker

[storm forum]

wait does mastery affect envenom?

[balmy condor]

Yes

[stoic needle]

Yes

[soft shale]

yes

[stoic needle]

Envenom is a poison for the purposes of mastery and dashing scoundrel but not zoldyck because fuck logic

[storm forum]

.... what the fuck blizzard

[brittle pawn]

that would be juicy

[soft shale]

interesting eh

[stoic needle]

[spice spire]

Yeah they’re geniuses

[spice spire]

What did he ever do wrong? I know his last album was a bit weak but come on dude smh

[stoic needle]

Zoldyck envenoms

[storm forum]

Zoldyck's: "Poisons and Bleeds"
Mastery: "poisons and bleeds"
Dashing Scoundrel: "poisons"

if the "p" in "poisons" is capitalized it excludes envenom

[balmy condor]

Then you would have master assassin, and vanish into an envenom

[stoic needle]

Even with vendetta and zoldyck NS rupture is worse than MA

[storm forum]

you literally never mentioned this

[stoic needle]

It's not just the envenom damage, it's the cp you get from the muts after the envenom

[storm forum]

you said "for ST"

[balmy condor]

I’m not sure about the actual math of that one envenom, or that one rupture

But Subt and NS are strictly worse

[soft shale]

cp autos poison procs all benefit from the crit

[balmy condor]

Idk why you’re not getting this

[storm forum]

can someone give me a lobotomy?

[vestal wren]

there is nothing wrong to play subtlety if you preferer it

it won't make your output terrible

[somber hill]

unless u hate DAMAGE

justt kidding

[soft shale]

what do you mean as sub

just crit every evis

LUL

[stoic needle]

Ez

[soft shale]

oh wait crit TWICE

[vestal wren]

*subterfuge

sry, subtlety brain ^^

[soft shale]

you can play subter in torg with chain link those garrotes are juicy

or in m+i dont know how behing it is from the mfd NS ct

[stoic needle]

I wonder what % NS would need to be to be competitive with MA

[balmy condor]

“Is this better?”
No
“No but is it better?”
No
“But like in this situation”
No
“So it’s not better?”
No

[soft shale]

deathly shadows big brain

you also get the cp

!

[stoic needle]

Can you modify the % in raidbots advanced sim?

[soft shale]

meanwhile deathly shadows still less dps than tiny toxin

[balmy condor]

You can do an override yeah

I literally told you subterfuge and nightstalker are basically equal

Twice

[brittle pawn]

youre asking about one very weirdly specific global over a fight which is just fucking weird

[balmy condor]

#assassination message

Remember this?

This whole conversation is very weird imo because you’re asking what’s best out of two bad options

But putting that aside

You’ve gotten your answer

Many times

That’s why I’m trying to figure out what you’re not understanding

So I can hopefully explain it to you

In a way that makes sense

[molten harbor]

@ruby ingot Do a test. Go log some batdog kills and try both options.

[soft shale]

i know having genius ideas

then they crash

as they should if they are dog

[balmy condor]

Okay so what were you thinking about

[soft shale]

just accept it

[balmy condor]

Maybe we can get to the root of the question

And figure it out there

[molten harbor]

I think he was asking about Excecute damage Vs. Overall damage.

[balmy condor]

I get that

We’ve already talked about that earlier when he clarified

[molten harbor]

Oh. Welp I am clueless now too

[loud niche]

Colors are back

[balmy condor]

Yes

But what was the thinking about

Was it just “I wonder which of these is better in execute?”

Or is there something else

I’m just trying to understand

[limber lion]

I did one dungeon and meanwhile #assassination has imploded

[molten harbor]

I think it is just one guy that doesn't know how to ask questions clearly and then blames everyone else for being dumb.

[balmy condor]

I don’t think it has :P

[undone eagle]

if we say i have 5 targets and 1 of them is prio, is it fine i only garrote + rupture 2 of them and then cT and then shiv + envenom spam on prio

or should i rupture + garrote 3 targets instead

[balmy condor]

Depends on the pull tbh

But you would probably only want to put out 4-5 bleeds

and then maintain ct and pump envenoms

[limber lion]

Ah that wasn't too bad

[undone eagle]

I get panic when i need to use my shiv + envenom but my bleeds are running out on 4-5 targets

then i dont knwo what to do

xD

[balmy condor]

You just throw the shiv onto something

[limber lion]

You can just slam Shiv honestly and not think about it

[balmy condor]

And just continue as normal

[undone eagle]

shiv affects aoe?

[balmy condor]

No

[undone eagle]

ah ok thanks a lot

[balmy condor]

Shiv is just good

Well shouldn’t say that

It’s good enough

[undone eagle]

So is it fine to me to actually focus on rebleeding the 4-5 targets

instead of using envenom and then some of them has 0 bleeds?

[balmy condor]

It depends on where you want the damage right

If you have prio, then envenom the prio

That’s fine

[undone eagle]

ye but if there is no ? 😛

[limber lion]

It's completely fine to just rupture everything in the screen

If they live long enough

[storm forum]

yeah unless you need to save shiv for an enrage just use it on CD on the prio target

[balmy condor]

Then just toss out the shiv and follow as normal

Rupture garrote on everything that lives long enough

[undone eagle]

ok garrote is as important as rupture ?

ah yeah ok

and CT right

[balmy condor]

Yes

[undone eagle]

ok imma just focus more on all my 3 bleeds timings

and envenom the prio if i have the chance

[balmy condor]

You maintain CT on everything always, except for the one exception of single target, during shiv

[undone eagle]

Alright cheers

@balmy condor even if 6-7 targets is ok to bleed everything and maintain without prio?

if tank double pulls in m+

[balmy condor]

doubtful you can maintain that many bleeds :P but yeah

that's fine

[undone eagle]

ah true , maybe 5-6 is possible xD

[balmy condor]

usually 4 targets is kinda doable

5 is pretty rough

[jagged axle]

we bakc on top?

[limber lion]

We've been for the whole of 9.0.5.

But sure.

[jagged axle]

how longs that been bro I been playin FFXIV 👀

[limber lion]

Depends on your definition of top tbh

A month or so

[jagged axle]

top of rogue

[limber lion]

But ye we're pumping in raids.

[jagged axle]

saw this on wowhead

[limber lion]

Ye, best rogue spec for raids. Outlaw still pumping in m+

[jagged axle]

feel bad for sub lol they went from #1 dmg overall to like 2nd worst

yamean

[brittle pawn]

#1 overall

[jagged axle]

xpac launch sub was #1 on chart

on wowhead

at least

[balmy condor]

yeah

[limber lion]

They were #1 overall in beta with the bugged Akaari's and DD 😛

[balmy condor]

and I'm the king of france

[limber lion]

But launch? Ehh, don't think so.

[jagged axle]

maybe I was thinking of beta

i didnt know it was bugged tho 👀

[balmy condor]

sub rogue was bugged to hell all of beta

legendary adding 77% damage instead of the intended ~5%

[jagged axle]

nuts

[limber lion]

Ye it was silly

[balmy condor]

missing decimals in shit causing it to do like 20% extra damage rather than 2%

all sorts of nonsense

[jagged axle]

whats the content like rn?

[balmy condor]

for reference this was week 1 nathria

[brittle pawn]

theres a raid, and dungeons

[thorny pond]

Started from the bottom now we here

[jagged axle]

so same as when I took a break

[limber lion]

Don't worry, we're getting new content pretty soon

In August

[limber dagger]

Guys is there an opener guide with venthyr somewhere? i cant find it 👀

[limber lion]

!guide

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
RH: https://www.ravenholdt.net/guides/assassination-rogue-guide-shadowlands-raid-dps/
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide

[limber dagger]

ye i was looking at the guide

from wowhead

[limber dagger]

huh idk how i missed that but thanks

[loud niche]

someone please explain why someone would dare tell me that all their core raid spots are based on competency and are always up for grabs if a better player comes along instead of being based on time in the guild, then also tell someone who is averaging an orange parse no vs their green parsing rogue? it's amusing but also makes me wonder if these people understand that they're being contradictory

[pastel shale]

yeah mostly diet and exercise ha ha

[charred mango]

youd best not be trying to poach my green parsing raid spot!

[sudden hound]

It's because of the utility the rogue brings

[limber dagger]

i remember we used to garrote 2 times in the opener, why are we not doing that anymore?

[limber lion]

It's just not worth it.

[loud niche]

what's your guild on?

[balmy condor]

because we don't have shrouded suffocation

[loud niche]

I'm out here trying to find a guild that isn't dying, which is also doing better than 6/10M lol

[limber dagger]

ah yea that makes sense

[undone eagle]

wait wtf they didnt update??

[limber lion]

Which guide is this?

[undone eagle]

best covenants

from icy veins

lel

[limber lion]

You should look at the rogue guide

And not overall

!guide

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
RH: https://www.ravenholdt.net/guides/assassination-rogue-guide-shadowlands-raid-dps/
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide

[limber lion]

^ that one

[balmy condor]

no, that's the recommendation

seli maintains the outlaw/sin guides

and his recommendation remains night fae

[subtle kiln]

NF still stronk

[stoic needle]

Why is venthyr recommended for sub lol

[balmy condor]

gonna have to ask ashine for that one

[undone eagle]

it says night fae

for assas

what the heck

[balmy condor]

yes

it does

[subtle kiln]

what the heck what?

[undone eagle]

isnt venthyr best for sin?

[subtle kiln]

it looks at the overall covenant choice

[stoic needle]

For single target

[undone eagle]

ah

[limber lion]

Ah okay, fair enough

[subtle kiln]

not just st dmg

[undone eagle]

so i should go NF if i do m+ and raids?

[stoic needle]

Not necessarily

It quite literally doesn't matter

[subtle kiln]

what covenant do you like?

[stoic needle]

Pick whichever one you like the most

[subtle kiln]

go with that one, except kyrian

don’t go kyrian.

[stoic needle]

At the end of the day it's just a gameplay playstyle difference and a nearly marginal performance boost in certain situations

Nothing that will make or break anything you want to do in the game

[loud niche]

I just had a rogue who is 10/10M tell me that it's a noob strat to shiv on cd. Am I wrong here?

Is it meta to hold shiv now?

[thorny rose]

not according to this discord

I’ve always heard shiv on CD here

[loud niche]

Yeah, Kinda thought so

[limber lion]

No.

[proper sage]

were they specifically talking about assassination

[limber lion]

Being 10/10M doesn't mean jack shit.

[loud niche]

yes

[proper sage]

huh

[limber lion]

There's people at 3k+ rio saying stupid stuff as well

[loud niche]

oh now he said 1v1 me on target dummy in org

[proper sage]

what

lol

thats the dumbest thing ive heard $_$

[stoic needle]

He's probably boosted

[limber lion]

I don't think I've ever seen Lauren in here

What a rare treat

[proper sage]

hey man

[storm forum]

I mean, you can hold shiv for like ~10 seconds to line it up with stuff, and I think we've been saying that for a while

[stoic needle]

It's only really to line it up with sepsis or vendetta

But yeah

[limber lion]

[limber dagger]

when do i use CT in the opener? 😮

when i CT after rupture i loose S&D

[limber lion]

You don't talent into it in ST

[odd hazel]

Is Zoldyck better on feet or legs?

[limber lion]

But you keep it up always outside of Shiv windows

[low girder]

[limber dagger]

but i do in M+

and in m+ there are bosses 😛

[limber lion]

Yeah well do what I said after thjat

[normal spoke]

My Zoldyck on legs cause it is a weight-ier item than feet...

[storm forum]

CT after the shiv window on the opener

[balmy condor]

[balmy condor]

after the shiv runs out

[normal spoke]

But Doomblade I would advise on shoulders... cause there are no high ilvl haste/crit shoulders in game currently

[balmy condor]

?

[limber dagger]

oh so i never use CT in Shiv window?

[balmy condor]

no, that's the condition where you don't use it

[limber dagger]

ah i see

[normal spoke]

I just clicked on "check the pins" and it told me to get nitro

What is nitro?

[balmy condor]

https://discord.com/nitro

but I'm telling you to check the pins

because we don't recommend it on shoulder

[odd hazel]

on gloves because of slg shoulders

[limber lion]

https://gyazo.com/c8377d0c45ec972c69d906a55badb70d
One 8th of the way there

Rookie numbers :''(

[storm forum]

at the top of the discord window there's a pin tab, it has a thumbtack looking silhouette, click that

when you mouse over it it reads "Pinned Messages"

[normal spoke]

Ah nice

[pseudo hamlet]

Guys, what's your opener on the ST with Doomblade+DS and MA talents?
Mut->SnD->Mut+Garrote->Rupture feels so slow.

[balmy condor]

slow spec is slow

color me surprised

[loud niche]

Whispyr, how much dps you think we lose not using poisons? Serious question

[storm forum]

if you want to play "fast" play vigor or another class/spec

[spice spire]

I guess green is the color of surprise

[balmy condor]

like 25-30%

[pseudo hamlet]

But the Subterfuge or the Vigor talents makes the opener smooth 😛

[balmy condor]

okay but they're worse

[limber dagger]

Question: in m+ in AoE do i at one point just spam garrote, FoK and CT or do i always just keep CT running and rupture every target?

[balmy condor]

you never hard spam CT

[storm forum]

keep CT up and rupture everything

[pseudo hamlet]

So I just have to deal with it? Thought there's some kind of special opener with DS+MA

[balmy condor]

nope

its the same

[limber dagger]

no garrotes?

[storm forum]

Also keep up garottes

but it's lower prio than ruptures

non empowered ruptures*

[limber dagger]

what empowered ruptures?

[storm forum]

fuck

[thorny rose]

Lol

[storm forum]

non empowered garrottes*

[limber dagger]

ah 😄

wait so if there are like 6 targets i dont bother with non empowered garrotes until every one has a rupture on it?

[storm forum]

I find myself holding garrotte in those situations as a CP filler, like I'm at 4 CP and don't want to fan and don't want to rupture

(I usually run vigor in keys)

[limber dagger]

i see

is there a point when i drop envenom for CT when every target has all dots on it?

[limber lion]

No, you keep garrote on cooldown always

You keep applying it whenever you can

[storm forum]

Okay, I'm just doing it wrong then

defer to ceverion, he has higher io than me

[limber lion]

You get the same energy benefit from Garrote as you do from Rupture

Except that you don't have to build combo points or anything for Garrote

You just slam it

[loud niche]

cev a god bruh mans just does WERK

[limber lion]

[unkempt parcel]

I'm pretty sry for the question. But why I never use CT during shiv?

[limber lion]

Envenom just does more damage than CT would during that window.

[balmy condor]

^

[unkempt parcel]

OK ok

Thx

[loud niche]

Aye, this dude said he's the best rogue in US on all 3 specs

Man's got 2 parses on sire both green

POG bois

[normal spoke]

Ooo just went over all the pins... on in-game items... hate how 2ndary stats don't seem to matter much...

[dawn ivy]

they dont matter much when it boils down to just numbers

but having 0 haste is noticeable when playing

[normal spoke]

I mean they are in fancy green and all

I guess it is just the whole lol squish and things will become different in next couple patches

lvl*

[balmy condor]

it always starts like this at the start of expansions

over the course of an expansions lifetime, secondaries will become more important in comparison

[loud niche]

@balmy condor Do you know Omr?

[balmy condor]

I think I've talked to him before

I wouldn't say I know him

but being in both sin and sub a lot I see a lot of people yeh

[loud niche]

Okay. Sorry, he just said that if I ask about him people will say that he's the best Outlaw player and Sub player in the US... Wasn't sure if troll or being serious

[proper sage]

idk why youre still talking to them

just a troll move on

[nimble tartan]

yeah honestly he sounds like a weirdo

[shy dust]

@nimble tartan you suck

[misty holly]

I think he's the best. @nimble tartan if you see this I believe in you!

[loud niche]

Yo, there he is

[nimble tartan]

ty ghost

[loud niche]

#1 Outlaw in US as you claim xD

#1 Sub world Poggers

[nimble tartan]

i know im the best and im glad i have believers

in the flesh baby

[shy dust]

I feel like you’d fail a log check

[low girder]

his name's not in chinese nor is it foreverguy

so i think he fails

[nimble tartan]

i dont believe in logs or sims

[shy dust]

True Mata

[nimble tartan]

true alpha feel player only

[trail dove]

hey, if i don't have the slg shoulders than i can use Doomblade on the shoulder right?

[low girder]

that sentence makes the holding shiv make sense

[balmy condor]

sure

[nimble tartan]

yeah dude hold shiv is just like hold tb

[low girder]

both are bad?

lol

[nimble tartan]

im holding and shiving at max cp baby

[balmy condor]

I ain't a fan of the trolling

not gonna lie

[shy dust]

[loud niche]

lol

[misty holly]

I just added it to my mutilate/ambush cast sequence

[nimble tartan]

alright im sorry i will shiv on cd everytime now

[limber lion]

You do you

[loud niche]

From his guild leader, Omr claims to be #1 rogue in Outlaw US and Sub World, and is a great Sin player. This man's got another person gaslit so hard fam

[limber lion]

Self proclaimed titles are always the best.

And definitely the most legit.

[nimble tartan]

i cant help it if i have believers in me

[limber lion]

And definitely not just a dumbo trying to mess with you a bit.

[nimble tartan]

this discussion has no place here either way!

[daring plover]

@nimble tartan haters be jealous

[loud niche]

I'm rolling to be honest, whether he's trying to mess with me or not this is the best entertainment I could've asked for after a long day at work.

[frail fossil]

i am the best outlaw rogue in the world NO CAP

[nimble tartan]

ty dude glad to have another believer

[muted path]

About Shiv....If I add another poison then deadly poison or an additional poison then deadly poison I will suffer damage made by shiv, correct?

[nimble tartan]

what do u guys think of this new meta breaker opener where u rup before flag and u insta flag vanish env to crit the lashes

trust me try it out

[frail fossil]

pog

[balmy condor]

not sure what the question is

[soft shale]

no englando

[muted path]

Shiv makes damage and adds additional an concentrated dose of the applied poison. if I add deadly poison only shiv should make deadly poisons damage additionally. If I add a second poison (crippling poison for example) its added to my offhand weapon and should do no additional damage.

[balmy condor]

yeah

crippling/numbing aren't lethal poisons

so they don't do damage

but shiv applies an empowered version of your NON-lethal poison

so there's not an option for an empowered deadly poison

[muted path]

ahh, ok. should have red shivs description correctly. Thanks for your help.

[balmy condor]

np

[somber thistle]

!bis

[limber lion]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/droptimizer

Not sure how much I should advertise Droptimizer as it's for premium Raidbot users only. But eh, it's the best source for finding gear upgrades.

[somber thistle]

I couldnt remmeber what the best non raid trinkets were

[stoic needle]

Herodamage.com isn't a bad guide

[limber lion]

You can use Herodamage.com or Bloodmallet.com to get a general idea

[stoic needle]

I recommend hero damage over bloodmallet

[limber lion]

Phial of Putrefaction is the best trinket in the game.

[stoic needle]

Bloodmallet uses some wack ass sim types for it's profiles

Casting patchwerk and hectic add cleave

[nimble tartan]

i love phial

[loud niche]

Man's still here Pog

Gimme more of dem Hot takes bro pls, my face still hurts from laughin so much ❤️ you're the best kinda troll fr

[balmy condor]

can y'all quit it already

laugh about it in dms

[stoic needle]

[loud niche]

:c But I like it when you're included Whispyr. Just like with Peen memes before 905

[balmy condor]

yeah but I actually couldn't care

[nimble tartan]

thank you whispyr

[vital crown]

how do we use Crimson tempest

do you let the bleed time out

[limber lion]

No you refresh it during pandemic

[loud niche]

It gets pandemic like rup

[limber lion]

Which is 30% of the applied duration.

[loud niche]

^ what this guy said

[limber lion]

You can refresh it at 4s or less most of the time and you'll be gucci :p

[undone eagle]

yo im queueing like an idiot for so long and people dont accept sin in 19/20+...

is it cuz of outlaw>sin prefer or week

that they prefer other class

so annoying

[limber lion]

Not necessarily

[undone eagle]

to pug

[limber lion]

It's just hard to pug in general

When there's fire mages and whatnot

[undone eagle]

ye

[loud niche]

it's a rough life for puggers, esp if you dont play fotm classes

[willow eagle]

Melee is a bit more limited in terms of spots

So a lot of times you don't get in because probably there's already a melee dps in the group

[undone eagle]

this is how i imagine when im playing with a team, me mage boomkin/hunter as dps right..

and the mostly people who has the key is a melee class ffs

spec

in pugs

[vital crown]

so what should you just spam fan of knives then crimson tempest at 4 or 5 points instantly

[loud niche]

3-4 garrotes on a pack then CT

if 3 then fok first

[vital crown]

after that

[loud niche]

yeah, then you just fok and ct spam. i toss in evens on focus target for funnel dps when ct doesnt need refresh

and rupture upkeep on a couple things so you get energy regen ofc

i don't do m+ so much, but I have generally pretty good results from 3x gar > fok > CT > mfd focus target, rupt another target > fok > CT > fok > enven focus target, and so on

whispyr or cev feel free to correct me ❤️

[limber lion]

Almost, except that you never want to spam CT.

Generally you want to apply as many garrotes/ruptures as you can on targets that live the duration, whilst also keeping CT uptime close to 100%.

No.

[balmy condor]

what

of course it does

mastery increases envenom damage

yes

[limber lion]

Wait what

Yeah

Of course it does

I'm trolling

Sorry, doing a boost run at the same time

I'm a dumbo

[balmy condor]

legendaries have no effect on the gearing choices you make

yes

I am

?

the difference in stat importance is so minor

it doesn't make sense to try and lean into anything based on it

yeah, it would give you your worst stat

in a large quantity

[loud niche]

It's mastery tho.. And I think that over the course of an entire m+ you'll get more out of going for haste/crit than mastery/else

[balmy condor]

this is all stuff that has been simmed before

I'm not sure why you're calling me an idiot