How’s raid night in the us going
#assassination
strange python
strange python
I have a question about raid lockouts am I okay to ask here or shall I use general
balmy condor
well since you asked, I'm gonna tell you #wow-general
strange python
Way Ahead of you my g
strange python
Well whis I don’t wanna chance it
cobalt flame
I would have very hard time thinking about name for a channel for some discussions i have seen here.
balmy condor
mossy sable
Should I run Elaborate or Blindside on Council?
balmy condor
I mean it's either wow-related, which is #wow-general
or it's not
which is #off-topic
strange python
Should I run Elaborate or Blindside on Council?
It’s single target so whatever sims higher
mossy sable
Mmk
strange python
But I would run blind always ST
Does it make sense to run crimson tempest on council?
soft shale
blindside on council you get many execute phases
CT only if you have problems with adds on last phase and are killing nik last
strange python
Cool ty
soft shale
although if you go CT go zold instead of doomblade maybe
strange python
Guess it doesn’t make sense as the damage is reset when they heal anyway and you only need 1 extra garrotte up for the energy ticks
balmy condor
blindside on council you get many execute phases
why does this continue to be an argument
actually tilting the fuck out of me
strange python
Explain your tilt
soft shale
hahaha it does help on attendants etc getting more ambush
strange python
True
strange python
3 executes
strange python
Plus the big adds
soft shale
tbh if ash was not super cucked dashing would be lit on council
strange python
You can get a mut or two in during execute depending on your groups dps
I don’t even know what dashing does tbh
cobalt flame
I would agree on one thing. Council is cancer fight with endless stream of attendants and boomies just afking with starfall doing 3 times more dps
compact pumice
But if it was literally one boss, one hp, for the same amount of HP as all the adds and bosses on council put together, then blindside would proc on average the same amount of times
strange python
I would agree on one thing. Council is cancer fight with endless stream of atten...
The timing in council is really unfortunate
compact pumice
So why are you counting it differently
strange python
You have to hold vend for after the first attendant which kinda screws up the whole thing
Then it’s time to recital after the attendant
So if you get hit with it you need to do your vend rotation and the recital at the same time. Bit skuffed
cobalt flame
Also with our timings i get a lot of thrill seekers or whatever the nadja stuff is called into the intermission. Pretty tiltting
soft shale
i think you could cancelaura that one but i never bothered
cobalt flame
And since i played sub on our council progress our rangeds are sucking massive dong on attendants dmg. They are expecting me to blast them 
manic pebble
can legendary gears be upgraded or you have to spend your whole soul ashes for the new one?
soft shale
you can upgrade them with the difference in ash
manic pebble
if I upgrade from rank 1 to 4, it will still cost less right
soft shale
yes
soft shale
it will detract 1250 fromt the total 5100 cost
cobalt flame
Yes, you have to buy rank 4 base if u want to upgrade to rank 4
shy dust
why does this continue to be an argument
my guy
people dont understand %
they only know time
weak jay
Lately i've been feeling energy starved in m+ even while running vigor. I made sure poisons are on. Anyone feeling the same?
soft shale
i mean it only works quite fine because of attendants etc is not a % issue at least on council getting 1 ambush for free and putting 1 envenom in the back of those fuckers while they run can be the difference between raid losing a lot of dps because of shield or not
same reason as i was considering using mfd as sub on those
neat pulsar
why does krajll keep ambushing on opener ? 😮
daring plover
neat pulsar
why do so many rogues play cloaked in shadows soulbind ? I feel like it's really low utility soulbind in pve
Maybe I am missing smthg
compact pumice
It's pretty much needed for m+ it feels like. Nothing worse than getting popped out of your MA due to a dot ticking right before you get to the pack
strange python
It’s nice to have abs cba changing it
Like I’m not going to get that much more utility from something else
Plus saves me a conduit token when I change specs from OL to sin or to sub
neat pulsar
now that you mention it, my ambush doesn't work sometimes after I vanish in outlaw ^^ The shield should prevent it
compact pumice
Shield is like the only reason kyrian is not that imporant for cleansing bleeds etc, you can just take it with that conduit. Best there is tbh
strange python
So as I’m not being ripped apart I’m assuming my play was perfect ty boys
neat pulsar
why not a haste gem ?
neat pulsar
ok, vendetta too late on opener I think, I do the same but I figured out that a lot of people cast it between second mut and flag
neat pulsar
I think it might be because we run out of energy pretty fast on opener
strange python
I think it might be because we run out of energy pretty fast on opener
Try to offset that with arcane torrent when I remember
strange python
You're overcapping on CP a few times
I try to avoid this but sometimes if I’m coming up to a transitional phase I’ll just use an extra mut to get a longer rup up
neat pulsar
idk if it worth it, i saw your AT, but using it on opener ...
strange python
I mean I don’t have any other buttons to press as I have no energy
neat pulsar
the faster you burst, the faster you get it back ^^
compact pumice
Also from 62.5s to 73 I am counting at minimum 9 CP before Envenom
neat pulsar
using your vendetta earlier, won't decrease your dmg burst anyway
compact pumice
I try to avoid this but sometimes if I’m coming up to a transitional phase I’ll ...
But at that instance it's better to send 2x muti, garrote, muti
well rather
2xmuti garrote rupt muti I mean
strange python
Okay ty I’ll keep that in mind
When should I be vending then
I just do it after I rupture and pump envs into it
Again @balmy condor said the opener doesn’t really matter you can swap it all about and it’s a pretty minimal difference
stoic needle
vend > flag > rup
compact pumice
I go
Muti > SND > Muti > Garrote > Flag > Rupt > Vend
compact pumice
everything hits like a truck with vendetta up
strange python
So I should flag then vend rup for the big damage
stoic needle
no, vend flag rup
compact pumice
Vend is before the shiv window but the energy is amazeballs for getting the Shiv up ASAP
Kk
strange python
I mean as long as I don’t spend cp before I flag and vend is up it can’t make that much of a difference
stoic needle
i mean do you want your flag to do 10k+ damage or just 5k
strange python
Does the flag not increase after I press vend
stoic needle
the initial hit of flag with the conduit
is like half of the damage
so you vend first then flag
stoic needle
with the conduit it lashes 5 times intially, and it does 50% of your attack power
neat pulsar
however, with 500 haste, idk if ovid has enough haste to cast 3 times envenom during shiv without the energy from vendetta ...
stoic needle
3 envenoms during shiv doesnt really matter
neat pulsar
ok
stoic needle
mut > snd > mut > gar > vend > flag > rup > mut > shiv > envenom
you could even vend before gar if you dont want to wait the few seconds for your energy to recharge but it doesnt really matter
neat pulsar
do you use same opener on coucnil ?
compact pumice
Try to not use Rupture during shiv but rather before or after if possible
neat pulsar
Either I have to delay my opener, either it is stopped in the middle of my burst because of attendant
stoic needle
yeah don't blow cds until after the attendant is dead
strange python
Try to not use Rupture during shiv but rather before or after if possible
Even if it means rup falling off?
stoic needle
no, if rup falls off you reapply
compact pumice
Nope
strange python
Cool
stoic needle
thats more important than envenom during shiv
strange python
Ya
compact pumice
But don't refresh pandemic though
strange python
That’s what’s I’ve been doing just double checking
stoic needle
on council you can use the time before the attendant to get up gar and rup on the 2nd boss
strange python
Why not
stoic needle
you refresh rupture if it won't last til the end of shiv
compact pumice
because if pandemic runs out right after shiv, better to get that last env off and then do a last second rupt
strange python
mut > snd > mut > gar > vend > flag > rup > mut > shiv > envenom
Should there not be a vanish in there
stoic needle
yeah you vanish after shiv
neat pulsar
on council you can use the time before the attendant to get up gar and rup on th...
Why ? just for the energy passive on dots ? the dmg will ba canceled on 2nd boss anyway right ?
strange python
Is vend off gcd
stoic needle
yeah for the energy regen, it's a single target dps boost to dot up the 2nd add
yeah vend is off gcd
strange python
Cool so I could just vend and gar then flag rup
stoic needle
yeah you could if you want to use the energy regen for garrotte
chilly crane
hey everyone
what is the opener sequence in m+
for venthyr
what goes after triple garrote?
odd flax
delay any flags to sync with vendetta in a 6 min fight?
balmy condor
if you're playing vigor, 4x gar into a flag vend ct
balmy condor
delay any flags to sync with vendetta in a 6 min fight?
if it's exactly 6 min, you would delay the 4 min vendetta/vanish to 4:30 to line up with the 4:30 flag
compact pumice
once a the start
compact pumice
you should carry over from last pack generally. But if it's the first pack then maybe do it after the first CT?
chilly crane
thank you
compact pumice
if you run MFD you can do it before
but I think doing 4x garr > snd > mfd +CT is a bit better then, but at this point you are optimizing for that one pack in a whole m+ 😛
chilly crane
and the empowered garrotes
do I wait till they are completely gone
or do I still refresh on pandemic
chilly crane
do you have a good way to distinguish between garrotes in packs?
it gets hectic
😄
compact pumice
are you using a nameplate WA or is it just a list?
compact pumice
ah 😛
chilly crane
thank you 🤲
wary ice
finally got my phial
😢 226 skulkers simming better than the 220 dreadfire
I'll never be rid of this thing
compact pumice
Yeah I'm in that same situation
But it's fun to get killed by skulkers sometimes, makes it more interesting
wary ice
im just so happy to be rid of this double on usebullshit
been in double on use since the expansion launched
compact pumice
(though I swap out my skulkers for dreadfire on hungering since it teleported me into beams a few times)
wary ice
(though I swap out my skulkers for dreadfire on hungering since it teleported me...
yeah I've done that
compact pumice
The difference is kind of marginal so the sensible thing is to use dreadfire tbh... I’ve recently started executing low health Inerva adds also wasting most of that 24k crit....
compact pumice
You doing the NS MFD CT m+ build?
balmy condor
ye
compact pumice
Sounds fun tbh. It fits best with MA legendary I guess?
balmy condor
but also some people unironically run nightstalker for single target for some cheese shit
yeah you run MA with that buidl
compact pumice
That one big rupture I guess 
balmy condor
mostly big envenom on sludge pillar
compact pumice
Oh yeah. Big number for sure
stoic needle
😢 226 skulkers simming better than the 220 dreadfire
Just don't use it 
gusty mirage
Just don't use it <:4head:464582950529531904>
I made it really easy to not use it by never looting anything above the normal version 
stoic needle
Dude the weekly gave me another 213 today
stoic needle
I pretend I do not see it
dusky vault
Yes
thorn dove
neat
odd hazel
is there a way to change your CoV in raid bots?
balmy condor
anyone have a WA code snippet to track multiple UnitGUIDs
balmy condor
is there a way to change your CoV in raid bots?
hit the "unlock all soulbinds" in top gear, select a soulbind of a different cov
odd hazel
Thank you whispyr~ awesome as always
balmy condor
np
solar vortex
keen lantern
so the pinned message for m+ says to just run outlaw lol should i even try to explore outside of mark of master assassin for legendaries in that content?
balmy condor
fallow otter
Ps. Dw I'll get neither
shy dust
<@167090536602140682> if I get sire loot in vault and a phial what do I choose
Ring is SHIT
weapon is nuts
But phial is next prob
You can still loot sire on reclear
Chances of another phial
fallow otter
Probs get phial coz can keep getting sire loot technically
Actually fuck phial
Im goin on phial strike
balmy condor
so the pinned message for m+ says to just run outlaw lol should i even try to ex...
mark and zoldyck are both very close in dps
cobalt flame
I stopped thinking about what i would choose from vault after i got 2x cloak and sheet music one week and then 2x neck and sheet music next week in my 3 mythic slots with posibbility of 233 items
fallow otter
Ring is SHIT
Yeh I couldnt give less fucks about the ring, that ain't on my radar
strange python
I ran doom blade this week for tyrannical and it did fine on 15s
Sure you don’t get meme damage on easy packs
But it’s there when you need it the most
Most of the trash where MA would gimme dps numbers were trash packs we weren’t afraid of anyways
stoic needle
you can run any legendary and time 15s
strange python
Yeah
stoic needle
i think doomblade is good in some dungeons, but i wouldnt recommend it for pugging in general
trash damage isn't a meme, and you cant rely on pugs to do it
strange python
Depends on your comp if you dont have big meme damage for the bosses
Our only struggle at all was bosses
So i was just trying to help during those moments
We’ll see how next week goes
Should be a good push week
Will probably switch back to Ma
arctic axle
Are you guys switching back to outlaw for fights like sunking and sire d?
strange python
Depends
arctic axle
or Sin for life?
strange python
My guild has fine aoe
So I just focus the big boys on sunking
And help push sire during p2 and p3
P2 you can just focus on sire and the melee adds
We got boomies for rotting down everything else
So me and the aff lock can just tunnel
And then p3 we really shine
Works for us
3 boomies, a DH, and a frost mage handles the p1 adds
And we often stop dps pretty early on sire
P1
But if you don’t have that available then I guess crimson tempest would help
Kind of a waste though because p1 ain’t the problem
stoic needle
sin > outlaw for sire
sin probably > outlaw for sun king too because it does better shield damage
fallow otter
Usually this is correct
But honestly, it's more of a decision best made according to your raid comp
slender berry
Sin is better for both fights regardless of comp
fallow otter
I disagree, what if the rest of your group is shadow priests, outlaw probs better.
strange python
im torn, do i go venth sin or necro/outlaw
fallow otter
Nf both
kind veldt
Progging on Sire, should I use zoldycks or doomblade
soft shale
p3 is the hardest where zoldyck shines
fathom swift
im not even convinced zoldycks is that much better than doomblade even just for last phase
i've done sire kills with both zoldycks and doomblade and the p3 damage is not significantly different
fallow otter
im not even convinced zoldycks is that much better than doomblade even just for ...
Yeh I was making this argument yesterday
After checking logs
strange python
so doomblade is useless?
neat cairn
im torn, do i go venth sin or necro/outlaw
Go with what you will be maining the most. Sin or Outlaw
Sin can go with all 4 just with a preference for certain things for certain content.
uneven plume
Necro sin isn’t bad at all
It’s actually rly good for the main stat and crit for sin
neat cairn
Mhm
So if you do plan on playing both sin and outlaw, necrolord is fine for both
NF is if you're doing sub/outlaw
But Sin has that luxury of not being useless no matter the cov you take
edgy notch
im not even convinced zoldycks is that much better than doomblade even just for ...
i think doomblade is so good in p 3 because of the dot that ticks when u have to play mechanics like knocks and orbs and so on. And when u play mechanics u pool energy and u dont loose enevenoms
neat cairn
As far as the zoldyck/doomblade discussion, imo Sire is at that point where people have to slow down DPS because of his phases being rude.
so if they're both close then hey, pick your poison
neat cairn
I guess it all depends if your guild is struggling in that particular portion or in different areas.
slender berry
It's Like 100-200 p3 dps diff
edgy notch
I guess it all depends if your guild is struggling in that particular portion or...
yeah thats what i m thinking too
neat cairn
I've had too many 0.4% wipes on too many bosses to not take that 200 DPS difference
slender berry
If you have both legendarys use zoldyck if you gotta decide on one due to soul ash and stuff doomblade is fine
neat cairn
Honestly having both is probably the best option especially during prog so you can swap back and forth like most classes do
edgy notch
For me zoldyck only sims 200-300 higher than doomblade in execute patchwerk 2min
neat cairn
Example: holy priests between flash con and apparatus on boss fight length. Both are viable on every boss fight but just better in certain circumstances
broken dirge
!guide
prisma monolithBOT
fallen fable
Can some one take a look, i went assasin last night on sludge. What can i do to improve?
neat cairn
Idk if I'm really qualified to remark but cast Vendetta and Slice and Dice earlier?
steep obsidian
Can some one take a look, i went assasin last night on sludge. What can i do to ...
not using an oulaw conduit for sin might help?
i think you missed a few secs of vendetta during the dam multipler window too you could prepare better there apart from that I'm barely playg rn but maybe that will help
fallen fable
Ye ye conduits would help surely, wasnt able to.change it at that time.
balmy condor
Can some one take a look, i went assasin last night on sludge. What can i do to ...
Looks fine, but it seems like you didn’t hold shiv for second pillar, which screwed You up a little. You got slice up giga late in your opener, not sure what your reasoning was, but it should be your second cast in every fight
Uptimes look fine, maybe some loss of boss uptime could’ve been avoided but you’re at the mercy of the dipshit you’re chained to
So that’s aight
Generally looks okay
prisma crescent
Phantom Fire on pillar has to be wrong
balmy condor
?
prisma crescent
Wouldn't Agi get way more value?
balmy condor
I don’t see why
prisma crescent
he got 2 hits of phantom fire
balmy condor
On average it will do the same
fallow otter
Burrs and phantom fire
balmy condor
Infinite stars was rng as hell, but it was very good
fallow otter
The ultimate combo
balmy condor
Burrs isnt even that rng
fallow otter
Pffft
balmy condor
Idk where people get that idea
Lot of scaredy cats this expansion
The moment something even has the opportunity to not give them 100% value
fallen fable
@balmy condor thanks on review m8. When i put up better conduits and keep that SnD start with better rng it should be better. Thx once again
balmy condor
Instantly scared
fallow otter
Wait till you get a real bad one
balmy condor
Iqd has the opportunity to not give you giga damage? Trash trinket
Burrs might miss once in a blue moon? Awful soulbind
balmy condor
Phantom fire doesn’t high roll every pull? Must be bad
prisma crescent
Not bad just inconsistent
prisma crescent
So why wouldn't you prefer something that is more consistent
balmy condor
soft shale
some people have heavy ptsd
soft shale
like me in bfa 42% crit still not critting sadge
balmy condor
Okay let me give you an example
prisma crescent
If averages are equal
soft shale
if only i could pull a boss 10000 times
fallow otter
like me in bfa 42% crit still not critting sadge
I believe you need 34%
lavish pulsar
question: stone legion generals suck ass
soft shale
we live and die by highroll
soft shale
remember dislike=/= it not being good
soft shale
i dislike super rng but i know it can give better results
balmy condor
If stuff is equal on average, but one is more consistent, and one is more rng
The rng might actually be the way to go a lot of the time
fallow otter
question: stone legion generals suck ass
Im no English major but it was a good try
balmy condor
Especially in like keys or something where your damage in certain situations is very important
lavish pulsar
sorry got distracted by slg being annoying
balmy condor
If your outlaw rogue 5 rolls out of a prideful in dos straight into an ardenweald giga pull
That will shave seconds off of your time
It won’t make or break your key probably
But we’ve all had close keys
Where 2 seconds matter
And that’s where high rolling is good
soft shale
there is also a secre tech to do on denathrius now
play coral from bfa
stack it to 100% crit
pump in p3
but shhh
balmy condor
I just wish people would stop bashing really good items, or soulbinds, or legendaries, or whatever it may be
Just because there is any rng involved
Because that’s just the dumbest fucking nonsense
fallow otter
I prefer consistency if the results over many iterations are the same personally but, that doesn't mean that's the inconsistent option is bad that's for sure. End of the day I'll be using what sims best though, I'm a slave to the numbers
prisma crescent
I think the community broke whispyr
fallow otter
You prefer the gamble if the average is slightly lower?
Or stick with highest average either way?
prisma crescent
We're talking equal average
balmy condor
Scaling, iqd, rng, stat breakpoints, the amount of execute phases on zoldyck vs the actual time, feelcrafting some weird nonsense with nothing to back it up, bashing dungeonslice for no reason, the list just goes on and on
balmy condor
You prefer the gamble if the average is slightly lower?
I personally prefer consistency, and I play agi double stone in every setting
subtle tundra
yea but what if i get 34% crit on assa? im at 32% and i wanna know if its worth pushing for 2% more
balmy condor
That comes at a 5 dps loss in sims
But I can’t be fucked
If that were like 30 dps
I would probably switch
fallow otter
I personally prefer consistency, and I play agi double stone in every setting
Yeh I play the same, iqd also a step too far for me, but I have other great options
balmy condor
Hacha I will reach through my screen and strangle you with my bare hands
subtle tundra
hot
balmy condor
I think one of the worst things these days
soft shale
agi pots and me are bff
balmy condor
Is the people that go “oh necro sbs works with doomblade, Thats fucking giga”
balmy condor
That really gets the blood pumping
subtle tundra
its almost like the sims already know that!
soft shale
it's only kinda good on pvp you actually notice it
but for pve its hmm not a huge thing
balmy condor
its almost like the sims already know that!
When you got people questioning whether zoldyck execute sims properly
I’m just sayin
subtle tundra
dang
soft shale
im just waiting for the inevitable dashing scoundrel hype after any more borrowed power gives crit or whatever
balmy condor
People mold their own reality around what they perceive to be truth
And if truth to them is “well the sim doesn’t know that”
It also means “well the sim doesn’t know X either or Y and dungeonslice bad because of Z”
And you get this spiral
soft shale
that one is *closes door *
subtle tundra
yea but does the sim know that in aoe we use a lot of energy so duskwalker reduces vendetta cd by a lot????
balmy condor
And I speak from experience on that one, because I used to be in that spiral
Because people told me that dungeonslice is bad
prisma crescent
balmy condor
Most people just copy paste and the number gets spit out at the end
And they have no idea what happens to make that number spit out
And that’s okay
fallow otter
I called bloodfang to be bis ages ago, my fav tier set will shine again! Bloodmallet already think it's bis now we just need correct sims to line up 
balmy condor
But there has to be trust in the system, even when there are some mistakes that fall through the cracks
fallow otter
Ps. It's boring but I like the name
balmy condor
Because it’s been shown to be accurate time and again
soft shale
well dungeon slice in legion is different than the one now
it has been sharpened like a 1000 fold katana
balmy condor
It’s come a long way yeah
But even in 8.3
It was deemed a mess
Even though the differences from 8.3 to now
Aren’t really that big
soft shale
problem about bfa was dps on dungeons could get obscured pretty hard
thx to our friend mages or other classes
or like now with holy paladins venth on bosses
misty holly
Is the people that go “oh necro sbs works with doomblade, Thats fucking giga”
It is giga, though.
balmy condor
Kyrian Holy Paladins
soft shale
if you had 120% mastery maybe
subtle tundra
aint no way
balmy condor
arctic walrus
balmy condor
Throw the hammers m’lord
compact pumice
Had a discussion with a guildie and he didn’t recommend dungeon slice simming because he said it didn’t look exactly like his high keys so he preferred to sim fight by fight instead. My whole point was that even he does sim every fight in a while M+ at a certain key level how does he even combine the results OR how does he even begin to recommend that madness to another person.
steep obsidian
lol the people who are scared of being screwed by a little rng obviously never played in legion and got 0 shoulder poison bombs on a boss kill while the other rogue played worse and wrecked you coz he got one every time
neat cairn
RNG is my lifeblood
balmy condor
Had a discussion with a guildie and he didn’t recommend dungeon slice simming be...
The thing is, if you talk to other people, like mages, dungeonslice is actually trash
So they will tell you it’s trash
neat cairn
I play Dancer in FFXIV and have mained rogue for a few expacs
RNG is bread and butter of having chad moments
compact pumice
He also thought there were no combat drops or restealths in dungeon slice so I had to point some out to him
balmy condor
Yeh
neat cairn
3 poison bombs in a row on a pack and beat the mage? Poggers
subtle tundra
i dont think many people know what dancer is in ffxiv
balmy condor
That’s a common misconception as well
balmy condor
i dont think many people know what dancer is in ffxiv
neat cairn
Oh, it's RNG: the spec
You hit two abilities and wait for a proc
Then you can get two procs and it's just nyoooom
compact pumice
The thing is, if you talk to other people, like mages, dungeonslice is actually ...
How come they don’t fix it if it’s the general consensus?
neat cairn
RNG makes games fun too.
balmy condor
How come they don’t fix it if it’s the general consensus?
Because fixing it requires a lot of work, and a lot of testing, and sometimes even re-writing of the entire section of APL
soft shale
they would need to make their apl AND mantain it
compact pumice
Anyway he was a monk and was swapping to rogue if that is any point
soft shale
also because of how mage cdr works
neat cairn
monk
soft shale
sometimes you want to cdr other times you flame stroke
balmy condor
There’s so many classes without working dungeonslice implementation
We’re the exception
soft shale
or maybe next patch they go frost
balmy condor
Not the rule
prisma crescent
Honestly trying to develop a dungeon slice for mage sounds like a nightmare
neat cairn
Reminds me of the WoWanalyzer site
fallow otter
Anyway he was a monk and was swapping to rogue if that is any point
Monks is good, you just ignore it pointing you towards haste
neat cairn
"You could have popped Tranq at the beginning and had one more tranq" yeah okay
balmy condor
And we’re the exception because we have a lot of hardworking theorycrafters that have implemented and found gains for this stuff
That’s why we can optimize for m+ with things like “don’t garrote if the target will die in 8 seconds”
balmy condor
Sin changed very little
neat cairn
From BFA to Slands?
balmy condor
90% of the theorycrafting this expansion was “don’t ambush”
And that was all done in beta
soft shale
borrowed power was kinda crutch but now at least you dont suffer the FoK jail
balmy condor
The only other big changes that got implemented was syncing vend+flag/sepsis if the fight time allows
And some slice optimizations
neat cairn
I just appreciate that there is a lot of "there is more than one way to play this spec with minor differences in DPS, pick your favorite and what is best with the gear you got"
balmy condor
Because slice and dice is huge
neat cairn
The few that gets the "pick your favorite Cov"
Of course I mean always go Venthyr because the ability name itself is fun
balmy condor
I swapped for m+ buff and haste minigame > sepsis nothing
The damage is just an added bonus to me
prisma crescent
most dps is fun 
hollow escarp
^
round harbor
I switched for mini lust and St dps
neat cairn
I just chose because I'm tired of all my chars being night fae
round harbor
Flag feels ten times better than echoing reprimand
hollow escarp
not sure if I would have swapped from NF to Venthyr if I wasn't still in progress
I'm also tempted to swap to Necrolord when we reach to SLG, just to play outlaw 
round harbor
Also the benefit in keys
hollow escarp
and also get another covenant renown up
round harbor
The two dungeons having a venth is way more worth than having a kyrian for me
hollow escarp
I liked Korayn in m+, but theotar simmed better 
ohh, that as well
SD buff is also huge
neat cairn
and very few do keys as venthyr anymore
hollow escarp
but it's annoying for sin
hollow escarp
I open with 3 garrotes and click vessel 
neat cairn
neat cairn
nah
hollow escarp
I do less dps with outlaw
round harbor
Ew
neat cairn
I got my KSM as sin before, and I can do it again
hollow escarp
I'm gonna put the blame on the 210 legendary
round harbor
Sin is actually worse on tyran
hollow escarp
I'm gonna do keys next week as sin with a guild group 
round harbor
Since you can really I ly build, st or aoe
neat cairn
Tell that to my guild when I live lord
round harbor
Whereas outlaw it's the same build for both mostly
hollow escarp
ST is still good on sin with aoe build
hollow escarp
bad example, but fun one, first boss in MISTS as sin 
round harbor
Yeah but if you are full st build you lack aoe, if you go aoe build you are sacrificing st
fallow otter
most dps is fun <:peepohappy:585740413223043075>
This is where I fit
neat cairn
To each their own. Most of my teams just nuke the adds and use all CDs on adds (like how you're suppose to) and don't have anything for bosses usually
Fire mage slave
hollow escarp
if I don't have a fire mage in group, I use most of my vendetta's on Pride
but I don't wanna waste 20 sec cd on a 10 sec fight
balmy condor
Not having CDs for pride/boss is real questionable
round harbor
I mean u can get ksm with any spec, I'm just saying outlaw is objectively better because it doesn't need to lose at to gain aoe and vice versa
neat cairn
Mists is difficult to predict Prideful so sometimes CDs have to be used.
fallow otter
And it still has the control
hollow escarp
Not having CDs for pride/boss is real questionable
you risk getting a twitter post 
balmy condor
Mists is difficult to predict Prideful so sometimes CDs have to be used.
Is it?
hollow escarp
not really
round harbor
No
fallow otter
Imagine pugging
neat cairn
I mean obviously you can predict with the 20% each time but the adds aren't all in the "same" order
round harbor
And people who don't use cooldowns on prides are trolling
balmy condor
It’s not any harder to predict than another dungeon
neat cairn
I mean apparently 2-14 keys are hard while +15 is easy for pugs
neat cairn
Hence CDs being pushed
fallow otter
If the pride will kill you but the boomkin is holding, they are dogtier
Nah the kicker is no treants on necrotic week
neat cairn
oh god
round harbor
Ya I'm just referring to his mention of "twitter post"
neat cairn
wait was that a thing?
hollow escarp
yes
neat cairn
did someone make a twitter post- omg
round harbor
I mean he got hit by a red ball, but still
strange python
I usually play healer and dps held their cds for after pride 🙂 it was a +17
literally trolling doing 2k dps on pride
stupid mages
neat cairn
delete mage
hollow escarp
mages holding CDs
neat cairn
warlocks are better anyway
neat cairn
"I will combust when we have a bajillion adds or nothing"
round harbor
If only mages knew that if they combust pride, they will get it back during the boss right after
strange python
yup
round harbor
We can dream
hollow escarp
good mages know
round harbor
True
round harbor
But mages arnt people
neat cairn
My fiance has rerolled and finally settled on warrior after mage made him want to quit the game.
strange python
hollow escarp
I haven't pugged in a while but I started checking the raid logs not only rio
neat cairn
So he finally did and now he is happy
prisma crescent
Now he plays Slam-a-mole
fallow otter
"and stop leaving the toilet seat up"
strange python
now he plays slam a - never invited to groups cause no mage and no boomie
neat cairn
yeeeeep
hollow escarp
playing meta is fun if you are a good multi classer
neat cairn
He told me how he applies to keys and people deny him, even for onesl ower than he completed, and gets messaged "don't even apply on a warrior"
torn atlas
I struggle to play one class well, let alone several
strange python
sad
prisma crescent
Fury is sick in keys tho
neat cairn
It is
hollow escarp
yep
strange python
ye but people are dumb
hollow escarp
but has no tricks
neat cairn
But they are too dumb
strange python
fury does huge dam
neat cairn
They're like "if it's not a mage, warlock, or boomie we don't want it"
little to the know feral is the sleeper
strange python
I swear feral might be the most op sleeper
hollow escarp
did a key with a nf fury warrior, he had 7.8k dps, me 6.5k
hollow escarp
he wasn't even high rio
strange python
had ferals applying and staying in moonkinform until the key started
hollow escarp
strange python
neat cairn
that's great
prisma crescent
That's hilarious
hollow escarp
or frost/arcane mages not using shield until key starts
neat cairn
LOL
neat cairn
Frost is decent too
arctic walrus
Feral isn’t sleeper it’s just a spec on a class that has a ranged alternative
neat cairn
Yet people are like "ewww"
hollow escarp
frost is nice
weary shoal
hi... "Doomblade goes on hands because slg shoulders" says in pins... what is "slg" just to understand ^^
fallow solar
Whats the go with shiv in AoE situations? Better to just focus on maintaining all your bleeds or ignore and slam envenoms into the shiv window?
hollow escarp
hi... "Doomblade goes on hands because slg shoulders" says in pins... what is "s...
the only 233 pair of shoulders in the game for leather
glad narwhal
hi... "Doomblade goes on hands because slg shoulders" says in pins... what is "s...
Stone legion generals
hollow escarp
but if you don't mythic raid, it's w/e
hollow escarp
I still crafted Celerity on ring at the beginning of the patch and I wasn't expecting to see SLG
neat cairn
Yeee I always look at gear and what drops before looking at the recommended for slot
since most of the time, people say the biggest stat ones
Most of the time, they would be correct until the highest pieces of gear for that spec are stats you hate
hollow escarp
even if not that big, even secondaries can make you pick a different slot
let's say there is no good piece with our best stats
neat cairn
Hell I'd say for some, pick which doesn't cost the most on the AH LOL
hollow escarp
that can be a potential good lego slot
neat cairn
Since people still broke
weary shoal
im raiding mythic but generals are kind of far away xD
hollow escarp
im raiding mythic but generals are kind of far away xD
then go for hands
neat cairn
patch
hollow escarp
patch is far away
neat cairn
If the patch was in like a month I'd say wait but like
hollow escarp
so you might get to see the boss 😉
weary shoal
i see
prisma crescent
It literally doesn't matter stat wise, so might as well just go hands
neat cairn
it throws me off sometimes
hollow escarp
yeah, it's a common question
hollow escarp
haha
neat cairn
syntax brain be like
weary shoal
i was lookign at skills and other legos ^^ s/g xD
balmy condor
Whats the go with shiv in AoE situations? Better to just focus on maintaining al...
Press shiv and just continue
Don’t have slam envenoms to make it worth
weary shoal
i've alos heard someone recommending crimson tempest also in ST situations... can someone agree or is it bs and you always go poison bomb
prisma crescent
You always go poison bomb for ST
You use CT on ST if you are talented into it tho
manic igloo
so for dungeons theotar or nadjia?
weary shoal
and blindside is also our best option by now
prisma crescent
Maintaining EP and Envenom uptime while weaving in bleeds
Peak Assa gameplay tbh
neat cairn
mmm
Cause when you can do it right, damn it felt so good
I fooled my friends into thinking I was good
prisma crescent
neat cairn
Side note
I just got asked "where did you get all your high ilvl gear"
wh-
I mean.. I guess if you're new you wouldn't really know
But the journal tells you where to go?
weary shoal
is it still athing to use 1 agi gem or did they nerf it already?
neat cairn
Regardless of nerf I'd say 1 agi gem is still something to have
lament dove
it depends on your stats
strange python
sim it
weary shoal
oh i just noticed that there is no more poisoned knife... shiv took that place?
or what was the talent called ?
toxic blade i mean
neat cairn
yep, at 58
weary shoal
sad taht exsanguinate is not a viable option... was pretty fun in bfa
neat cairn
I get the appeal to it.
I never liked it
But I saw how fun it could be for some. Just felt clunky
arctic cloud
maybe they should rework it to something like the druid leggo that cuts dot/hot times down but obviously not so powerful?
green peak
Is Zoldyck’s still the best to go on single target progression? Bloodmallet has Doomblade simming for over twice the DPS.
drifting cloud
only on sire
compact pumice
Doomblade is still really good on Sire
green peak
I think I’ll go Doomblade. I just don’t like the idea of just not having a legendary effect for most of a fight
compact pumice
Since p3 starts at 40 the doomblade gets a bit more of a headstart depending on your group comp
But Zoldyck takes over at the end
hollow escarp
but that's the hardest phase, so on prog I would still play zoldyck to carry the team more
doomblade for first 2 phases prog
most logs are doomblade but they are reclears
green peak
We’re on Hungering so I’m not too worried about Sire yet
compact pumice
But the difference is a lot smaller than just simming for execute since you only are in execute 75% of the phase (well not really, the timing of the % is probably not fully linear)
hollow escarp
that's true, that's why we see this on Denny
compact pumice
That MA though 
hollow escarp
I was tempted to go zoldyck on Council as well but we hero at the beginning of P3 so there is no point having that if it's not in a high damage phase
also no vendetta on 2nd phase
this though
don't think it's a good way to look at it though 
native lynx
but that's the hardest phase, so on prog I would still play zoldyck to carry the...
would zold on denathrius not just be holdover advice from before the buff to doomblade? Doomblade should outperform it, as shown in wcl
hollow escarp
for overall damage probably yes
but if you prog, and struggle in the last phase
you can bring other classes that do better dps than rogues overall if that's the case 😄
also even before, zoldyck wasn't the best pick either for pure st
I think dashing simmed better
fallow otter
that's true, that's why we see this on Denny
run a query on p3 dmg, im interested in results 🙂
hollow escarp
not sure how to do that
but I checked a few logs
first kill logs
I would be interested too
hollow escarp
also comparing first kill/ farm kills
hollow escarp
do you have any data to share?
fallow otter
lemme see if i can query it
hollow escarp
I checked some top logs and then some logs from people from my server that killed it
can't really take conclusions based on that though
hollow escarp
yeah
fallow otter
hollow escarp
how come only 6 logs?
hollow escarp
I see
fallow otter
see the link
hollow escarp
the top zoldyck are 2 players from same guild
hollow escarp
ohh 
fallow otter
its more so that its apples to apples for p3 compares
hollow escarp
the doomblade boys still did more p3 damage
fallow otter
yeh, my argument is that the dot is still ticking while you're doin mechanics
and zold is obv still helping dots
but you're losing the extra spenders on zold dmg
hollow escarp
that could also be the argument for flagellation stacks
if you need to soak
and the placement is not ideal
fallow otter
yeh the long story is that we need more data honestly
hollow escarp
not sure how it is in mythic, but in HC that annoys me so much
hollow escarp
I should probably filter by kill time when I try to compare my logs
not a big wcl guy 
compact pumice
Well, considering Zoldyck is only slightly ahead of Doomblade on execute then I think it's still within a good margin of error and all the mechanics, the part of the phase not in execute range, your tactics and luck matter more than the extra damage from the legendary. In this case it looks like even a net loss on average
hollow escarp
could also have the argument for doomblade that it has an extra dot and you also have bigger envenoms
compact pumice
Those are just factors in the overall damage parse though, neither aspect is more beneficial than the other in that sense when you factor in everything.
That's what the numbers seem to say at least
real gazelle
Audit -ignore miss type...
glacial shuttle
What school of 'magic' are our bleeds part of?
limber lion
What school of 'magic' are our bleeds part of?
Bleed.
It's a thing of its own. Poisons are nature damage.
ruby birch
Aids damage
limber lion
That's what the numbers seem to say at least
The thing is Zoldyck provides more damage during downtime and can be the deciding factor between you killing the boss or not. Most guilds at this point probably don't have a problem with the dps check in a vacuum, but once you start adding downtime to your team, the worse players tend to only do mechanics and forget to dps as well as having a chance to die to mechanics. There have been countless of wipes on Sire at under 2%, where the dps difference from Zoldyck could have pushed it at least a little bit closer to the kill or even maybe kill the boss.
Progression kills are a thin of their own and reclears shouldn't necessarily be lookee at when progressing the boss yourself. Usually having that extra bit of damage at the end can be helpful, even if you do less on overall.
Doomblade is a parsing legendary, Zoldyck is progression legendary.
compact pumice
But what you find is that that extra bit of damage is missing a lot of the time though, which is interesting
Like the actual benefit of Zold is not really showing on the logs for some reason
But I agree with the sentiment of course
limber lion
Like the actual benefit of Zold is not really showing on the logs for some reaso...
Because Zoldyck is not a parsing legendary
Doomblade will have a higher overall.
compact pumice
I'm not talking overall
limber lion
And a lot of guilds have private logs on progression
compact pumice
I'm talking p3 only
limber lion
And only make them public after starting to reclear.
compact pumice
I've never understood private logging but yeah that might just make Zoldyck have fewer logs
Might also make the logs of lesser quality I guess
cold turtle
private logging helps with people having dps brain and trying to parse on prog
compact pumice
But the damage from the sims are not easy to find in the logs that exist though
limber lion
Yeah me neither but quite a lot of guilds do private log on progression to promote the ideal of focusing on killing the boss first instead of parsing
Get CE first with shit parses, improve parses later
compact pumice
But seeing how you're parsing very bad might make you want to fix it, no? But not sure
limber lion
But seeing how you're parsing very bad might make you want to fix it, no? But no...
But you private log
So it doesn't matter
As long as the boss dies
compact pumice
Oh I am talking until the boss dies, so you know that you could be doing more kind of
but I think I get the reasoning
limber lion
You'd be surprised how many people are trying to minmax their damage during progression and end up making a lot if mistakes.
cold turtle
Parses sometimes aren't indicative of what you should be doing to kill boss
padding on adds etc
compact pumice
That's very true
But that would also be shown on a log
But the parse number might not show it
But the log is very useful in that regard when you check something like "damage to boss"
cold turtle
raid members can still see their own guilds private logs
they just don't get a parse number
sacred isle
The logs are still there. It’s just not broadcasted to everyone.
It’s a great way to make ppl focus on doing the fight right. Not parsing high for epeen
On progression the logs are more for raidleaders to analyse and see what needs improvement. Not for you to check your dmg vs others that has killed the boss 10 times already
limber lion
If you've never used private logs, it might be hard to understand. Like Triarch sais, a lot of people that private log with their guild don't even open up the logs during the raid at all. They just play the game and leave the analysis to the officers.
Private logs also get rid of the "ah we wiped on 1% and I had a 99 and now we killed it and I died and only got a 46" because it doesn't matter. Boss is dead, you should be celebrating that and not sad because you parsed bad.
cold turtle
should also be realizing that being alive is important for your parse xd
fallow otter
The thing is Zoldyck provides more damage during downtime and can be the decidin...
yeh im just not seeing the numbers to support that yet, i agree in theory though
but its more a lack of data than anything else
subtle kiln
you’re missing data for two reasons. assa was shit in 9.0 so very few made legendaries. as people have started swapping they made “the bis” as close to max level as possible and probably still don’t have zoldyck
fallow otter
yup
limber lion
you’re missing data for two reasons. assa was shit in 9.0 so very few made legen...
Yeah and also a lot of people are playing Outlaw on most fights but swap to Assa just for Sire
subtle kiln
and while technically the legendary power should be the deciding factor, I don’t think anyone will tell you it feels good to swap from a 235 to a 190/210 that sims lower via patchwerk
limber lion
and while technically the legendary power should be the deciding factor, I don’t...
Yeah. Zoldyck sims around 300 dps more for me than Doomblade in a 3min execute scenario.
subtle kiln
Yeah. Zoldyck sims around 300 dps more for me than Doomblade in a 3min execute s...
i don’t think your average andy on raidbots knows how to set that.
limber lion
i don’t think your average andy on raidbots knows how to set that.
Yup.
hollow escarp
private logging helps with people having dps brain and trying to parse on prog
had somebody last night complain that their IQD gives mana to the healer
while we were struggling in P3 on Council
parsing on prog is cringe
alpine garden
Finally got myself an upgradeable phial
limber lion
Finally got myself an upgradeable phial
Grats 🙂
alpine garden
ta!
willow oracle
The only Phial i've gotten sos far was in a low key with an alt 1 day before the patch hit. 
night breach
why is it recomended to craft master assassin on ring instead of wrists? isnt more agi better?
alpine garden
I assume because you don't get agi on rings from regular rings?
fallow otter
its because you can get 233 shoulders from SLG 😄
night breach
master assassin goes on wrists
ancient kraken
why is it recomended to craft master assassin on ring instead of wrists? isnt mo...
cause it sims better
eternal lance
hey guys i try to playing ns mkd and its really working
Ty boys
its really good rotation
for mythyc plus
❤️
limber lion
alpine garden
Sounds interesting, just spam 5 point envenoms from stealth or what?
subtle kiln
why is it recomended to craft master assassin on ring instead of wrists? isnt mo...
there are very few well stated rings right now. there are a few well stated bracers.
limber lion
Sounds interesting, just spam 5 point envenoms from stealth or what?
You do MFD CT Fok Rup Fok Rup as your opener
It relies on the NS CT combo and the MA legendary
alpine garden
aaaah kk
unkempt parcel
NS = nightstalker?
regal chasm
That sure sounds more fun than garrotte tab repeat. Sims quite a bit lower though..
limber lion
NS = nightstalker?
Yes
unkempt parcel
Thx
wary ice
You do MFD CT Fok Rup Fok Rup as your opener
this is funny
tender fjord
It relies on the NS CT combo and the MA legendary
Haven’t been to the disc a few days. Is this a new thing? People swore by the empowered garrotes
limber lion
Haven’t been to the disc a few days. Is this a new thing? People swore by the em...
Not exactly a brand new thing, it's been around. But yeah, it's one way of playing in M+. It's not the go-to, EP/Subt/Vig with Zoldyck is still the one.
heavy skiff
But this is better on big pulls
tender fjord
Haha yeah ofc it was a thing but people kinda swore by the garrote talent.
burnt star
Does CT bleed works with zoldyc?
limber lion
Does CT bleed works with zoldyc?
Yes
burnt star
Neat
raven grove
!bis
strange python
Not exactly a brand new thing, it's been around. But yeah, it's one way of playi...
i play this with Doomblade , am I losing a lot (ep, sub, vigor)
old depot
If I play sin for raid and outlaw for M+, which spec should I open my vault as if both sets of weapons are 220?
I'm looking for a 226 weapon, and I'm assuming Sin only gives daggers whereas outlaw would give dagger or 1H?
stoic needle
Sin only gives daggers, outlaw only gives 1h
If you raid more open vault as sin, if you m+ more open vault as outlaw
weak horizon
low trout
@weak horizon is there a DPS difference between your assassination and outlaw in m+?
old depot
I enjoy the spec that pumps more for the given content. I also swap to outlaw for certain fights in CN. Sin in m+ feels weird and my DPS is crap. Although that's due to me using doomblade and not zoldycks
wild lion
<@161299654175096833> is there a DPS difference between your assassination and o...
it depends on dungeon, overall outlaw is better but for me in top and spires especially in tyrannical assa do morde dmg but u lose gouge
odd hazel
So, i figured venthyr would be miles ahead of necro in ST--- but it barely sims ahead for me.
i've been debating switching to main sin but it feels odd that it didn't sim more ( i know i can play with out venth but i figured it would do more )
limber lion
i play this with Doomblade , am I losing a lot (ep, sub, vigor)
Quite a bit. You need to alter your gameplay to incorporate more Mutilates/Envenoms to get value out of it.
stoic needle
Outlaw will pretty much always do more damage than sin. But unless you're pushing high keys it doesn't matter
limber lion
On smaller packs (3 or less) it's completely fine.
stoic needle
So, i figured venthyr would be miles ahead of necro in ST--- but it barely sims ...
Did you sim with the lashing scars conduit and dauntless duelist?
limber lion
So, i figured venthyr would be miles ahead of necro in ST--- but it barely sims ...
Did you remember to also sim with Lashing Scars conduit, Deeper Stratagem and Blindside talents?
limber lion
I enjoy the spec that pumps more for the given content. I also swap to outlaw fo...
Yeah, Assa's damage is fine if you play it correctly. I just did a HOA +16 and did 7k dps, excluding Gargoyles. It's not too far behind Outlaw, but it also misses out on the utility.
old depot
Is anyone alternating between Sin and Outlaw for content? I'm continuously running out of them dam conduit charges for swiitchg specs between Nadjia. Wondering if I should just dedicate Draven or Theo for the other spec.
limber lion
Is anyone alternating between Sin and Outlaw for content? I'm continuously runni...
Depends on the content you do. You can definitely just use Nadja for Assa for ST purposes and Theotar for Outlaw in AoE
stoic needle
You don't need to switch conduits as venthyr. Sin never uses double potency, outlaw always does
You can use both nadjia and theotar for both outlaw and sin by putting cto in the 2nd potency slot
limber lion
You don't need to switch conduits as venthyr. Sin never uses double potency, out...
But you still need to swap one potency conduit even then.
stoic needle
No you don't
limber lion
You don't use Lashing Scars as Outlaw.
You use CtO and the Roll the bones double chance one.
old depot
I'm using Outlaw - CTO and SOH . Sin is Flag and Maim Mangle
stoic needle
Yes you do
sacred isle
actually u can use both
stoic needle
Nah sleight of hand is bad
prisma perch
eternal stats or skirmish?
stoic needle
Lashing > sleight by a decent margin
limber lion
Nah sleight of hand is bad
Literally sims more on AoE
old depot
But CTO is also potency
limber lion
Maybe if you sim ST
stoic needle
It doesn't for me
limber lion
But I don't know who plays Outlaw in ST.
stoic needle
Lashing wins in dslice
old depot
Regardless how does outlaw only use one potency? Isn't CTO and Lash both potency
limber lion
Regardless how does outlaw only use one potency? Isn't CTO and Lash both potency
No, it uses two but we're talking about whether or not you switch one out or not.
stoic needle
Read what I wrote again
limber lion
Assa uses just one.
old depot
Oh sorry, what does Sin use? I thought it was lash and Maim
stoic needle
Lashing cto for outlaw, lashing dauntless or lashing wasteland for sin
limber lion
Oh sorry, what does Sin use? I thought it was lash and Maim
Just Lash.
And Dauntless Duelist.
old depot
Ahh I see. Duelist
stoic needle
You only use maim as non venthyr
old depot
Roger. Thanks for the advice. I'll sim Lash vs Sleight for dungeon slice, if it's close enough I'll just use Lash for outlaw m+ to save the trouble
burnt star
Or u can play sin in m+ and have fun too if u like sin
odd hazel
Did you remember to also sim with Lashing Scars conduit, Deeper Stratagem and Bl...
im dumb, it sims +150 better.
limber lion
Roger. Thanks for the advice. I'll sim Lash vs Sleight for dungeon slice, if it'...
Yeah, like under 50 dps is whatever.
limber lion
im dumb, it sims +150 better.
There we go :p
old depot
Btw where do I get a higher level Lashing Scars conduit? I'm still using a green one. Have yet to find a better. I don't really do my callings I guess?
burnt star
Simss never lie! Except when they do
old depot
Wowhead not showing me where it drops
odd hazel
Btw where do I get a higher level Lashing Scars conduit? I'm still using a green...
sire drops a 213