assassination

[stoic needle]

I feel like overall I'd be better off playing sin because I'm comfortable with it

[shy dust]

Yeah then do that

Just do you and perform well I believe in you

[frail fossil]

i was still top boss dmg on any boss i played outlaw on

[nimble spoke]

You got this, Oshosi!

[subtle kiln]

just stay assa. boss dmg pumps.

[shy dust]

How does this matter though

[nimble spoke]

The hunters in my guild are sweating. They were easily beating me when I was sub and outlaw. I swapped sin and now I'm beating all but one of them haha

[stoic needle]

thanks boys

[shy dust]

I can join a world 2000 guild and be top damage on every boss just due to on average being better

[stoic needle]

I'm gonna blast

[nimble spoke]

just beat them all in damage and don't die, forehead

[stoic needle]

Sludge should be fun

[shy dust]

Just based off any stats and an understanding of how both specs work would lead you to understand why sub does more boss damage on council

[thorny rose]

gl oshosi

[shy dust]

Have they fixed the sludge fist animations yet

We killed it Tuesday but it was annoying

[stoic needle]

Hmm I dunno

[shy dust]

The soak takes 2.5 seconds

The rock animation lands 1.5 seconds in

Is a bit disorientating

[stoic needle]

That's weird

[frail fossil]

i mean idk like my boss dmg on my first council kill is comparable to sub rogues, my attendant dmg is lower tho

[gloomy fern]

was not fixed yday @shy dust

half of raid had bigger aoe stomp also

[frail fossil]

like kinda weirdchamp outlaw is considered the pad spec when u literally had the same ST as sub and sin before 9.0.5

[shy dust]

How much damage

Does outlaw gain

When there is 3 targets @frail fossil

How much priority damage does it gain

[frail fossil]

wanna see my inerva dmg compared to urs on first kill man ?

[shy dust]

I said council

Didnt i?

Is inerva council?

[limber lion]

[frail fossil]

u were ahead on me on attendant dmg in council

but not in boss dmg

we were even except on frieda

[dull cloak]

tbf, outlaw gains st damage from flurry if you rub korayn

its not pad :)

[shy dust]

Then so does sub

How does that work

Could also just look at the graph

[frail fossil]

i'm not NF

[shy dust]

And use your understanding of both specs

[frail fossil]

ok sorry for playing the #padding spec

[shy dust]

To see sub would clearly do more boss damage when they simmed close to each on st

[dull cloak]

it is what it is, bladeflurry doesnt add to st

[shy dust]

I never called it padding lmao.

It’s just the truth sub funneled there and would put out higher boss damage than outlaw

Sorry for telling you how sub works as a spec?

[strange python]

Council parses also kinda change with the kill order

[frail fossil]

council is a meme to parse and idc

[subtle tundra]

by this logic a lot of the fights are a meme to parse and nobody should care ^^

[strange python]

Boomie parse is better when you get those adds phase two

If you don’t then it’s more like a single target fight

[limber lion]

I also do love Assassination, it is my favorite spec

[strange python]

But sin rogue and shadow priest get little buffs because they can use the other mobs for generators

[limber lion]

That's why I talk in this channel a lot

Because I'm an assassin fanboy

[strange python]

Sub I guess too

[frail fossil]

u parse by dmg adds that are irrelevant and u're parse is also dedicated by how many boomkins u have and how many dks

[strange python]

Because you can shuriken then evis

[frail fossil]

so clearly council parse is a meme

[subtle tundra]

but then

so is SLG and sire

cause it depends on how much aoe and how much you actually dmg the focus targets

[limber lion]

SLG is pretty meme to parse

[strange python]

The damage to the adds is irrelevant but if it helps your single target it’s great

[limber lion]

Because you can either kill the boss in 8 minutes, or 11

[strange python]

Faster evis

[dull cloak]

SLG add damage matters more tho

[limber lion]

If you take 11 minutes, say byebye to your parses

[timid grotto]

stupid question, at what point in the opener do i use flag?

[limber lion]

But anyways, good thing ya'll are having this discussion here in #assassination

[strange python]

Kek

[limber lion]

After garrote

[strange python]

Well applies to sin too

[limber lion]

Muti - Snd - Muti - Gar - Flag - Rup - Shiv - Vanish

[strange python]

Dot the adds for added energy Regen

[timid grotto]

thank you very much

[limber lion]

[gloomy fern]

do dauntless reset between intermission etc on slg

[balmy condor]

no

[stoic needle]

Can run exacting preparation or double potency for slg

[limber lion]

It's very sad, but no :''(

Actually dead branch for half the fight

[gloomy fern]

unlucky

[sly timber]

best weap enchants

[limber lion]

Celestial Guidance and Sinful Revelation

[polar cape]

Does bonespike works with doomblade/xoldyck?

[dapper dock]

how did u guys decide between necro, venthyr, or NF?

[worthy heart]

i may or may not have just switched to venthyr after maxxing out renown on necro cause fuck it

[dapper dock]

are u happy with that choice?

[pliant dust]

Venthyr masterrace

[worthy heart]

dunno yet, apart from having to farm 40 renown i'm kinda ok with that choice

[limber lion]

I wanted the most ST damage as possible, so I went with Venthyr.

[worthy heart]

i hate necro playstyle and i mostly play m+ with outlaw sooooo

[pliant dust]

I've been playing Venthyr since release, and the "new" Flagellation feels so good to play with. Can highly recommend

30% haste is kinda neat

[limber lion]

Well, I personally never see 30%, I always stay around the 21-27% range.

But yeah, it's definitely great.

[pliant dust]

Even 21% free haste is insanely nice

[compact pumice]

Yeah I get 30 all the time as outlaw though...

[limber lion]

Yeh so do I, but this is not #outlaw so we're assuming assa here.

[pliant dust]

Same. Currently playing Outlaw as well, but the haste is nice for either spec

[dapper dock]

i thought outlaw wanted NF?

[shy dust]

Outlaw prefers necro currently

But again you can ask in the outlaw channel

[compact pumice]

Would love to get 30 consistently as Sin though since it feels way more impactful here

[dapper dock]

prefer not 2. i dont like outlaw lol

[limber lion]

Yeah, but it's close to impossible to do as Assa.

Might be able to pull off during lust and using MFD

But eh, not that worth

[shy dust]

A large damage cd

That also gives stats

Is very good

[pliant dust]

all of this

[shy dust]

Similar reasoning to why coral was so good

[limber lion]

ye

[compact pumice]

Flag might get toned down tbh

[pliant dust]

Especially with Lashing Scars conduit

[shy dust]

Why is that

[compact pumice]

But right now it’s amazing

[pliant dust]

Why would Flag get toned just after it became viable, lol

[shy dust]

There are other more prevalent outlier conduits

Infernal cascade is 14% dps for fire

Icy propulsion for frost image

[limber lion]

Yeh let's nerf something that is barely viable instead of nerfing the actual OP stuff in the game

[shy dust]

Tbf

You could argue sin is overtuned currently

For ST at least

[limber lion]

Ye definitely

[compact pumice]

Well, if it’s fun and usable enough that a lot of players swap to it and also start to beat all other specs with it = fun and you know how Blizzard hates fun?

[shy dust]

I mean it definitely is overtuned in ST

[limber lion]

But even if they nerf the conduit, it would still be very strong

[vital haven]

im plugging my ears right now

[pliant dust]

Just stay away from my Venthyr, guys 😦

[limber lion]

It's not like the conduit will suddenly make Assa lose all damage

[shy dust]

Yeah

Even if lashing is nerfed

Sin st is nuts

But it shouldn’t be nerfed

[limber lion]

Venthyr is still #1 and Assa still pumps

Def not.

[shy dust]

Based on other outliers

MAGE

[limber lion]

fuck mages

[compact pumice]

Well. Mages are getting another buff next patch, if you extrapolate from the data we have atm.

[pliant dust]

Mages

[shy dust]

True

Fire mage wasnt dominant enough in 9.0

Let’s buff their 2nd lego to the point where it’s 3% ahead of their previous best lego

[limber lion]

Blozord

What can I say

[shy dust]

I can’t even see the rational about that

If they wanted it to be more appealing for other specs

[shadow pivot]

9.1 Patchnote
We nerfed Pyroblast damage by 2%
To compensate, Ignite gets +66% Damage and Mage now gets a 3rd blink.

[shy dust]

They could have just tuned it lower for fire

[rustic whale]

will they ever adress our Poison Bomb? It is doing %2.3 my total dps

[shy dust]

Like they specifically buffed deathly for sub

[limber lion]

I think they want to keep the current specs op and bad specs bad for this tier

And do a bigger power revamp in 9.1

[vital haven]

thats pretty much it @shy dust

and ye they couldve done what you just said

i guess blizz does consider mages to be the protagonists of wow

[compact pumice]

Ion is a mage main I guess

[rustic whale]

shaman i think

[wind totem]

Stupid question: Does envenom benefit from flagelation with doomblade?

[shy dust]

Don’t believe so

It is not a bleed

[limber lion]

Flag is not a bleed, it's shadow damage.

[compact pumice]

Then he plays elee shaman + mage + healer in arenas

[shy dust]

Mage and shadow priest we hate em

I remember when shadow priests had like 13 blue posts and rogue had 1 in beta

[rustic whale]

i have no problem with mages as long as the rogues are on the table

[shy dust]

I have a large problem with mage

[rustic whale]

they are dps class too

[shy dust]

They have been grotesque overtuned

For two patches straight now

[vital haven]

lol every class was in beta meanwhile rogues were in prealpha

[strange python]

Yall keep talking bout mages but don't mind "bAlAnCeD"

[rustic whale]

i don't believe blizz took asssasin spec even on beta

it still has 2016 talents

[limber lion]

Can you elaborate?

[shy dust]

Sub and outlaw had

[limber lion]

Because Assa got a talent revamp in BFA and SL.

[balmy condor]

Elaborate...planning?

[shy dust]

NYI talents for ages on beta

[balmy condor]

[limber lion]

[rustic whale]

don't you think it is wierd subterfuge nerf did not reverted, MA still as %50 talent while we can do %100 lego one. Poison Bomb damage pathetic and Hidden Knives are useless.

i could elaborate much

[pliant dust]

fixed Assassination talents

[rustic whale]

not to mention Venom Rush

[limber lion]

Poison Bomb, MA and Hidden Blades are not 2016 talents

[rustic whale]

Baked over Artifacts who cares

[limber lion]

Also what do you mean subterfuge nerf?

[rustic whale]

From %125 to %80 on BFA

[limber lion]

Why would it get reverted?

[rustic whale]

i mean garrote dmg

why not

[limber lion]

Garrote is still one of our highest damages in M+

Why would it need to be any higher

[rustic whale]

in BFA PvPers cried so they did nerf

[balmy condor]

Elaborate....planning?

[limber lion]

They nerfed the Shrouded Suffocation trait which was legitimately busted.

[balmy condor]

[limber lion]

Whispyr.

My boy.

Stop.

[rustic whale]

you said very good

[limber lion]

[balmy condor]

[limber lion]

jk, you're doing great

[rustic whale]

but rogues dont have shrouded suffo anymore?

[limber lion]

Keep it up

[gusty mirage]

[vital haven]

shrouded

[limber lion]

Yeah because it was busted

We don't have Blood of the Enemy either

Or Echoing Blades

[gusty mirage]

but it was FUN

I want to have FUN again

[rustic whale]

are not you think if some burrowed power stript away they should also revert the nerf?

[limber lion]

Assa is doing competitive damage already, it doesn't need to have its talents reverted

[rustic whale]

i m not asking buffs lol

[limber lion]

They stripped borrowed power from EVERYONE.

Not just Assa.

[rustic whale]

im talking about fairness

[gusty mirage]

well that depends on your definition of fair

[balmy condor]

I’m not asking for buff, I’m talking about fairness

Man

That’s a fucking quote

[limber lion]

We already got 18% aura buffs and a ton of other stuff

[balmy condor]

Put that on a doormat or something

[limber lion]

I think we're gucci my man

[limber lion]

[rustic whale]

so you like my word eh 😄

[gusty mirage]

Ravenholdt merch, when?

[limber lion]

Or on a shirt

Would wear

[surreal halo]

Whisp is a fucking savage hahahaha

[limber lion]

👕

[rustic whale]

should i copyright it? 😄

[balmy condor]

I mean it’s very thought provoking, unlike what you’re talking about

[limber lion]

Holy fuck, spare this man

[gusty mirage]

I want a shirt that says "What's the haste breakpoint to make this viable?"

[shy dust]

The haste breakpoint

[limber lion]

[shy dust]

Is when you have enough haste to drop SF as sub

[rustic whale]

tshirts can be cheap but wise words not

[gusty mirage]

just give everyone convoke

[surreal halo]

• Finish Him *

[gusty mirage]

fuck it

[burnt latch]

do we swap talents for sludge? like could exsang or sth?

[gusty mirage]

We could do haste themed shirts for all specs

[stoic needle]

convoke the envenom when?

[rustic whale]

use the word "swiftblade's cunning"

[stoic needle]

press one button, 15 envenoms

[limber lion]

Exsang is bad, but EP NS MFD can work.

[stoic needle]

ezclap

[gusty mirage]

and the screenshot makeitquake has: Front of shirt - "!bis" Back of shirt: "Whispyr: fuck off"

[wary ice]

12 more to go baby !!! woooo!

[burnt latch]

alright thanks 🙂

[limber lion]

[wary ice]

My dream is for the free vendetta by the end of the expac

[rustic whale]

cant imagine that dps output lol

[stoic needle]

it'd still be worse than boomkin

[gusty mirage]

[limber lion]

And a 1% chance to proc Vein Rippers

[gusty mirage]

make exsang vein rippers?

[hollow escarp]

PLEASE

[stoic needle]

[wary ice]

make PB good again 😦

[hollow escarp]

and delete council

[gusty mirage]

I'll join you in that camp tonight

[hollow escarp]

I just asked to be benched lol

[gusty mirage]

lmao I offered to bring a "more viable" class instead of me and was told to stfu

so there's that I guess

[rustic whale]

don't worry time will come they will say "need rogue"

[hollow escarp]

it's not about needing rogue or not

but our damage is not the best there

[balmy condor]

Sin: buffed to relevancy and one of the highest boss damage in the game, while having one of the most diverse and viable talent trees out of any spec

Sin channel: wah why no exsang wah why outlaw better aoe wah why convoke wah why we suck so much

[hollow escarp]

why stop though?

[rustic whale]

P3 Denetr is full of knockbacks and soaks 😄

[limber lion]

It blows my mind every time

[gusty mirage]

we want supremacy sir

[dark basalt]

hold up

[balmy condor]

We’re already at the top

[rustic whale]

boss dmg definetly good

[trail locust]

!bis

[gusty mirage]

moar

[balmy condor]

The fuck are we arguing for

[surreal halo]

Baseline smokebomb with 10-20% damage reduction, 3 Min CD, and make PB something interactive with some control over the proc.

[trail locust]

why no work

[shy dust]

and 2-3t cleave*

[gusty mirage]

I want to look down at the other classes and laugh at them like the peasants that they are

[balmy condor]

Buff us till we get nerfed

Genius

[shy dust]

Sin is already

on the nerf radar

[balmy condor]

Cause it’s gone

[shy dust]

stay woke

[hollow escarp]

I mean

[trail locust]

okay thanks hot anime grill

[rustic whale]

what i wonder is releasing of 2nd legos

how would spec fares

[hollow escarp]

don't wanna be toxic

[gusty mirage]

https://tenor.com/view/michael-scott-theoffice-dont-gif-7904750

[balmy condor]

If you’re in this channel, complaining about sin being bad

[hollow escarp]

I can't even be tbf

[shy dust]

fire would nut over every spec in the game

[balmy condor]

Stop talking tbh

[dark basalt]

0 sugar indeed

[limber lion]

[hollow escarp]

outlaw still better than sin on denathrius

[gusty mirage]

ban him

[hollow escarp]

I'm out, pull in 20

[gusty mirage]

ban him right now

[rustic whale]

don't push fellow rogues 😄

[balmy condor]

Yo pass the fucking blunt

[hollow escarp]

it wasn't me who said that btw

[limber lion]

Anyone who disses Assa, feel free to leave and create a Boomkin. You won't be missed

[gusty mirage]

okay ban me so I don't have to see it anymore

[balmy condor]

Well get me in touch with who did

[gusty mirage]

I'll settle for that

[balmy condor]

Cause that man

Is on fucking Pluto

[limber lion]

Whispyr

That

Was

[gusty mirage]

he's probably got some good drugs tbh

[limber lion]

My RL

[gusty mirage]

oh my god

someone save this man

[balmy condor]

Get down mr president

[hollow escarp]

I know at least a guy who said that

[balmy condor]

But like actually tho

Consider new guild?

[gusty mirage]

^

thats like next level fuckery on your RL's part

[limber lion]

Def need to

The argument was

[rustic whale]

good night girl i ll see u tomorrow meme came on mind

[limber lion]

"There's 83 Outlaw parse and 79 Assa parses on EU/NA. EU/NA are more likely to play Outlaw, so Outlaw is obviously better"

[gusty mirage]

lmfao

[limber lion]

Comparing 1100 Outlaw logs to 110 Assa logs btw

[hollow escarp]

nvm

[limber lion]

And out of those 1100 logs 950+ are from China

Not even kidding

You can go look it up

[balmy condor]

Wait. He means Asia is more likely to play outlaw?

[rustic whale]

i did 4k on denetr hc total fight

[hollow escarp]

that guy just said the he performs better than sin rogues

[rustic whale]

opening paddle omg

[hollow escarp]

but also PI parses are inflating sin damage

[rustic whale]

some classes wreck that

[hollow escarp]

but there are only 5 PI parses on Denny Mythic

[rustic whale]

but sin perfectly available

not sure of Mhytic

[limber lion]

Idk what he was on about

https://gyazo.com/a7004241da75aa319e41368faebe8ec5

[rustic whale]

i dont have xp on that

[balmy condor]

🚣 🚣

[gusty mirage]

[balmy condor]

Yo I just want 5 minutes with the guy

[limber lion]

Like he was literally basing his opinion on whichever class had more parses

[balmy condor]

Just a Talk

[stoic needle]

do we really have one of the most diverse talent trees in the game when we have like 4 dead talents

[balmy condor]

Yes lmao

[gusty mirage]

can I be there for this conversation?

[stoic needle]

what specs have it worse?

[balmy condor]

Every other spec in the game

[gusty mirage]

Just look through the other trees for rogue

and you'll be so confused

at some of the talents

[limber lion]

I was talking about progression only, so just looking at overall parses is the dumbest thing. Most of the parses are reclears and most of those guilds progressed on the boss as Outlaw in 9.0 when Assa was a garbage spec, so it's natural that they would just stick to Outlaw for reclears as well.

[rustic whale]

it is hard to swap specs due to legendaries?

[limber lion]

I'm 99.99% sure that if there was a way to filter reclears and first kills on WCL, Assa would win 10/1

[balmy condor]

MP in pvp, elab in m+, blindside in single target
NS in m+ subt in m+, ma in raids
Vigor in m+ deeper in raids mfd in m+
Utility row with good options
Utility row with good options
VR bad, alac everywhere, exsang bad
PB single target, HB for cheese, CT in m+

Like

If we count HB

We have 3 talents that we don’t take

Sub has 3 talents that they don’t take

IN THE FIRST TWO ROWS ALONE

[hollow escarp]

what is HB?

[limber lion]

Hidden Blades

[hollow escarp]

ohh

that's a thing

yeah

[rustic whale]

wait DS better on raids then Vigor?

[balmy condor]

Have you ever looked at like a fire mage tree or a windwalker tree

[rustic whale]

or is it for venthry?

[balmy condor]

Literally all the specs in the game

Are like

[gusty mirage]

Sim it my dude

[balmy condor]

Maybe a talent here

Or a talent there

Are good

[limber lion]

For Venthyr yes, might be better for others as well at high haste levels

[balmy condor]

Where as our main issue is alacrity being too strong

[rustic whale]

hmm gotta check that

[balmy condor]

And that’s about it

[rustic whale]

i have %21 haste

but not venthry

[limber lion]

Fire Mages literally run the 100% same setup everytime, maybe swapping out Flame Patch for Conflegration

[balmy condor]

Yep

[limber lion]

Oh well

[gusty mirage]

yeah even outlaw's tree is like that, at most you change quick draw to ghostly and KS in M+ (and some dungeons you just keep blade rush)

[limber lion]

We should probably get buffed

tbh

Maybe add Shrouded as a talent

[rustic whale]

what i wanna see is Poison BomB either buffed or somekinda fixed proc chance

[frigid kestrel]

CT baseline is on my wish list

[stoic needle]

[limber lion]

It does have a fixed proc chance, kind of.

It's not 100% random

[gusty mirage]

CT Baseline would be nice

[rustic whale]

i mean % chance

[stoic needle]

idk i dont know enough about these other specs to say for sure whether they're better or worse off than sin

[shy dust]

ww talents are relatively varied

[limber lion]

It's literally impossible for you to do a 5 min encounter and not get a PB once

[shy dust]

the first 3 are generally preferrence with eye being best in st and burst being best in aoe

[rustic whale]

yeah but i find it very lackluster for a last tier talent

[shy dust]

ascension vs fist is personal perfromance rly

final row is just wdp though

[limber lion]

Lackcluster? It's passive damage that just happens

How is that lackcluster?

[rustic whale]

feels weak

even on procs

[limber lion]

So

[stoic needle]

its unexciting

[limber lion]

Weak = lackcluster

[stoic needle]

yes

don't you know

dam = good

[limber lion]

welp

[stoic needle]

no dam = no good

[limber lion]

okidoki

[rustic whale]

😄

[stoic needle]

lmao

[gusty mirage]

feels weaker than what?

[stoic needle]

i do get the argument for wanting more control over it though

[gusty mirage]

you want something consistent just play CT and use it on ST

idk what to tell you lol

[rustic whale]

or idk when it comes to vs dmg on Legion i am disappointing

[limber lion]

LMAO

You cannot be seriously comparing the two

[gusty mirage]

bruh that's like... 4 years ago

[rustic whale]

even after 40 years that damage can not be forgotten

[limber lion]

You either parsing a 99 by getting procs and doing 50% of your damage with Poison Bomb or parsing a 60 because you didn't get a single proc

[gusty mirage]

sure it can

[limber lion]

Yeah, sounds like great design my dude

Bring that back

[gusty mirage]

I used to 1 shot clothies in classic

should I compare us now to then?

[vital haven]

legion was 4 years ago

wtffffff

[limber lion]

We like to have plebs with 183 ilvl get rank 1 on every boss because they proc'd PB on every finisher

[hollow escarp]

[limber lion]

You literally cannot compare current PB to Legion's iteration

[gusty mirage]

it was released in summer 2016 I believe

[rustic whale]

i m not. But it is weak

[limber lion]

But, you just did

[dull cloak]

i used to have a weakaura that played wilheim scream when PB procs in legion. cuz its that exciting to get a proc back then

[gusty mirage]

it's not weak, unless you compare it to legion's PB lol

its the same PB that was in bfa

literally the entire expansion

so yes you are comparing it

[rustic whale]

i did not play in BFA sorry

[gusty mirage]

smart man

[rustic whale]

doubt it?

[vital haven]

i will defend this till the day i die

8.3 patch

with vendor

was pretty good

[gusty mirage]

then you remember they could've done that at launch and it infuriates you

lol

[vital haven]

season 4 bfa m+ was also pretty good

[limber lion]

Okay, Whispyr already ditched. I'm ditching as well, store closes in 25 minutes and I have a 15min walk there. Hoping to see some spicy memes when I come back, make me proud boys

[gusty mirage]

I'll do my best Cev

[hollow escarp]

I can stir up some drama

[rustic whale]

send nudes?

[balmy condor]

I just cba

I'm still here tho

[worldly bridge]

hey everyone, progging Council MM tonight. Should i go for Marked for death ? The only Sin rog in top100 rogs warcraftlogs is playing MFD but he's got 5PI lol

[balmy condor]

no

definitely not

[keen aurora]

So it looks like the ST difference between Venthyr and Necro is pretty small for assassin, if I'm planning on also running outlaw for M+ I should probagly go Necro right?

[worldly bridge]

Sin dmgs seems quite low. Should i play Outlaw for this fight ? idk

[gusty mirage]

rogues in general do meh damage on council

[balmy condor]

boss damage is worth

[balmy condor]

sure

[amber trench]

if you look at boss dmg on council it's all sin rogues

outlaw dmg is from add pad

[hollow escarp]

I've been playing this for 40 min on Council

and a key before that

[vital haven]

uuuf

[gusty mirage]

LOL

[vital haven]

UUUF

[pliant dust]

Love to see it

[jovial horizon]

is there some interaction between huntsman's shades and entropic embrace that I'm missing? last night entropic embrace was like 9% of my huntsman damage, nearly all of that was to the shades

[balmy condor]

the fuck is entropic embrace

[jovial horizon]

void elf passive

[balmy condor]

no idea what that even does

but I know the shade damage is weird

[hollow escarp]

extra shadow damage

[onyx wind]

it embraces entropy

[hollow escarp]

it's trash

[pliant dust]

thenks

[hollow escarp]

I mean good but meh

[jovial horizon]

weird

[hollow escarp]

did you check that on logs

or details?

[strange python]

roll the krit chance ?

[hollow escarp]

I had issues proccing duelist on 2nd boss

[jovial horizon]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/GV9AJgkPrTKYj1Zq#fight=3&type=damage-done&source=16

[hollow escarp]

on council

[jovial horizon]

both

[hollow escarp]

and I was wondering why is there no duelist debuff lol

wait a second

I thought I had that on yesterday's reclear

[vital haven]

ngl thats happened to me but in reverse

i go do keys

and i see the fucking arrow above the mob

and im like fuuuuuuuuuu

[hollow escarp]

duelist is not that bad thouhg

[balmy condor]

yeah that sounds like WCL jank

[jovial horizon]

yeah I think so too

[gusty mirage]

[mossy crown]

for m+ would you craft 190 Zold or wait? I currently have equipped 235 Doomblade

[balmy condor]

probably fine to use that 235

[hollow escarp]

do you guys hold vendetta after first attendant is killed on Council?

[dull cloak]

CTO used to work on Sin lol, if you cast ambush it will give you rtb buffs, unledd they already fixed it

[soft shale]

it still works as far as i know

[balmy condor]

yes

[oak arrow]

Anyone know if the initial 3 second cast of Consume (Mythic Hungering) does damage? i know the second part of it (6 second leech) does. Trying to time my Cloak for it.

[compact pumice]

Cast does not

6 second leech does

[balmy condor]

take the first tick of damage

and cloak the rest

[compact pumice]

Its around 15k right?

If you're low hp you can run out and then wait for 5 sec on cast and shadowstep + cloak back inside

you can feint the first tick too

[timid whale]

Hey guys, is it worth changing from outlaw to sin considering the changes to sin?

[oak arrow]

not sure how much damage it does, just trying to maximize my dps on the fight. Killed myself the second consume of our kill last night cause i didnt realize their were two parts to it and cloaked early. got miasma right after

[balmy condor]

for raids yeh

for m+ nah

[soft shale]

necro has some cool bugs going around so if you enjoy those

[oblique tulip]

yes i enjoy getting less combo points because bone spike is bugged very much

[soft shale]

yea but when you get back 2 charges

[steel ridge]

Does it??? 😅

Blindside CtO lets go

[balmy condor]

it's trash

wouldn't use it

but it does work

[soft shale]

not recommended

maybe on m+ with restealths

getting broadsides 15 secs seems interesting

or getting GM and getting 3 min SnD

tb would not work i guess

[balmy condor]

its still bad

[gray fjord]

Pretty sure most of them don't even work correctly or at all.

Like 99% sure I tested a meme build of that on beta and ruthless precision/Truebearing/SkullCrossbones/Broadside(?) don't work in assassination. I'd have to retest it but there is really no point to attempt it. xD

Ah RP is actually whitlisted to include all rogue moves, even sin/sub. but yeah still not a good idea.

[valid jolt]

Does anyone know if doomblade bleed from mutilate restores energy

[balmy condor]

yeah most stuff has jank whitelist

[balmy condor]

it does not

[valid jolt]

Does it buff ebvenom by 5percent

[gray fjord]

Yes

To the envenom effect part

[glad narwhal]

It says you should build zoldyck for overall but there % difference in ST is considerable whereas in dungeon slice it's only marginally smaller than Doomblade. Is the recommendation still to build zoldyck for overall?

[versed mica]

does SBS buff envenom dmg by 5% with doom?

[gray fjord]

Also yes

[balmy condor]

yes

[versed mica]

thats kind of sick- tempted to swap off venthyr for SBS, even if it isn't as good\

I like them big envenoms, esp in pvp

[ebon tapir]

SBS + Doomblade is indeed big envenoms. feels REALLY good even if Venthyr is better

[glad narwhal]

But why? It's 0.3% better in dungeon slice and over 3.5% worse in ST situations.

[versed mica]

2% worse*

[chilly crane]

guys question: decanter or infinitely divisible ooze for m+ sin? 🙂

[strange python]

Does exsanguinate still work on bonespike?

[stoic needle]

dungeon slice is 50% single target

if you sim an actual aoe situation doomblade is behind

[limber lion]

Dungeon Slice is not just aoe my boy

[glad narwhal]

Well, i Know that...

I said for overall

[limber lion]

Decanter, you should sim it though

[limber lion]

No, that was fixed right away.

[stoic needle]

overall most dungeons have more aoe than dslice does

[glad narwhal]

If in M+ situations the ZOldyck is 0.3% behind but in a raid i'm gonna be losing x% then that's not that great an overall pick, is it?

[stoic needle]

sure it is, sin still blasts in single target with zoldyck

[limber lion]

Just depends on the the content that you want to do.

If you want to raid more, build Doomblade.

If you want to do m+, get Zoldyck.

Doomblade is pretty bad in M+ compared to Zoldyck, but Zoldyck is perfectly fine in raids compared to DB.

[stoic needle]

it's not like other classes where their aoe legendary is 8%+ behind their single target one in single target situations

its just 3%

[limber lion]

But again, in M+ it doesn't really matter what legendary you play. Go ham.

[amber quail]

which is your highest envenom guys?

[balmy condor]

I hit a 250k in torg one time

not sure what my highest is on first boss mists

17.4k on sire on tuesday

[mellow carbon]

That 17.4k made me go back and check my logs. My max has been about 16.6k. Didn't realize they were doing that much. I never really look while raiding.

[limber lion]

My highest is 51k on Sludge in 9.0.

Haven't really looked into other Envenom's much.

I just get wet thinking about Sludge I just like Sludgefist as a fight, smile

[mellow carbon]

Yeah my guild is still trying to get through council. Bunch of 11% wipes.j We are close.

[vital ermine]

any recommendations for addons to help track debuff?

like garrote and rupture?

[safe barn]

wiped on 1% of sludgefist yesterday

[vital ermine]

i have plater but i have bunch of other debuffs showing

[safe barn]

[mellow carbon]

I have all of that in a weakaura. I would recommend looking into them.

[vital ermine]

which one in weakaura?

i see so many

or do you mean you created a custom one?

[mellow carbon]

Wago's site has a bunch, just look at them, and see which one looks good for you. I create my own weakauras, but there are a lot of really good ones already made.

[limber lion]

You can find good weak aura packs here:

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination WA's:
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)

[limber lion]

I personally use Afenar's weak aura pack, works wonderfully.

[safe barn]

If you are looking for a more classic wow design the seliathan WA is great

[limber lion]

Yeah, there's quite a few good weak aura packs from the RH community as well.

[fallow solar]

Is it worth using a low rank zold over a rank 4 doomblade in M+ untill i get enough soulash?

[stoic needle]

sure

[limber lion]

Yes sir

[stoic needle]

ilvl really doesn't matter as much as people think it does for legendaries

[stiff mountain]

how can u see someones cast sequence with icons etc like an opener for example

on log

[fallow solar]

Okay thanks

[bright hemlock]

is it better to PI Assa now than firemage?

[limber lion]

On Warcraftlogs, Timelines > Casts

Give me a sec, I'll take a picture for you

[stiff mountain]

timelines aight

[limber lion]

Click their name first when you open up the log, then you click Timelines > Casts

[candid mountain]

I have a level 14 assassination Rogue. I just realized muilate can't be used as much.

[limber lion]

Eh, hard to say.

[candid mountain]

Only like twice every 100 energy.

[balmy condor]

yeah but sin gets a lot more energy as it levels

[stiff mountain]

rank 4 shriek log doesnt even cast shiv or am i blind ;s

[limber lion]

You probably got it, even without me taking a picture

[balmy condor]

sin at level 15

is like

actually mega slow

[limber lion]

The old logs don't show Shiv because it was bugged previously.

It's working on the newer logs

[candid mountain]

Ok.

[limber lion]

Yeh, I think you get Venomous Wounds at like lvl 48 or something

it's actually dumb

[balmy condor]

also level 15

doesn't have vigor

or alacrity

[limber lion]

I can't imagine playing Assa without any of those

but like tbh

Why do you get VW at level 37*

It makes no sense

[gusty mirage]

because blizzard

[scenic sandal]

what talent is better vigor or DP?

[stoic needle]

blizzard doesn't consider the game under lvl 60 to even be a real game

lmao

[gusty mirage]

tbf it really isn't

[stoic needle]

its just the endgame waiting room

[gusty mirage]

remember pre-SL when most classes didn't get their kicks until like level 27?

[limber lion]

DP? You mean DS? Vigor is better for most, DS is better for Venthyr and at high haste levels.

[tribal mauve]

Haste ? or crit

[limber lion]

Haste.

A combination of both to be precise

But haste is the deciding factor most of the time.

A NF player with 12% haste rarely sims better with DS.

[stiff mountain]

how much % haste did ppl see the sims favouring DS?

roughly

[grim hawk]

do you guys sim 7k+ patchwerk?

[balmy condor]

some people do, yeah

[balmy condor]

like 20ish without venthyr

[stiff mountain]

with venth

[balmy condor]

like 5

[sick oyster]

guys how moch of a sim bait would you say is niya? it sims exactly the same for me compared to nadija but i cant imagine a rng procc being as good as flat 3%

[sullen fern]

how do you use master assassin lego as assa spec in mythic+?

spam FoK and crimson tempest?

[balmy condor]

are you playing subt

[stiff mountain]

im only simming 6.56k sadge 222 ilvl tho

[limber lion]

That's still pretty good.

[balmy condor]

simbait doesn't exist

[stoic needle]

good gear

[limber lion]

The thing is, sometimes it'll do more damage and sometimes less. Then it evens out to be approx the same.

You might see it pop off on a boss

[stiff mountain]

i see DS is simming only 70 more than vigor but DS feels so shit

[limber lion]

Then you might notice that it did nothing

[limber lion]

You get used to it.

[modest glen]

exactly the same here

[stiff mountain]

i guess

[stoic needle]

3x garotte + 1 fok/mut out of stealth > rupture or CT. then more fok/mut into ruptures

[sick oyster]

ok thx guys

[stiff mountain]

its best to get PI during vandetta i guess if u get it right?

[limber lion]

Yes

[balmy condor]

yes of course

[limber lion]

The cooldown actually matches, so if you tell your PI boy to use PI after 5s on pull and then on cooldown, they should match pretty well

[ebon fulcrum]

Should I stay NF or switch to Vent?

[limber lion]

It's your choice my boy. Venthyr = more ST damage -- NF = More versatility, best covenant signature ability

NF is not bad by any means.

[tropic echo]

best covenant sig is kyrian

[limber lion]

[balmy condor]

that's just factually wrong

[ebon fulcrum]

whats the dps diff between vent and nf? is it worth the trouble of grinding the renown ?

[limber lion]

Less than 200 dps, you can look at the pins for more info.

The renown grind is not too bad, you can do it in under 3 days easily.

[ebon fulcrum]

200 dps is kindda alot

[limber lion]

I'm simming 6973 dps. Ugh, so close 😢

[shy dust]

Invest in the iqd

[limber lion]

That's assuming perfect play though and staying on the target

[subtle tundra]

ill be simming 120 less tmr gonna swap from vampire gang sadge

[limber lion]

A 220 IQD would literally push it to 7k

I'm so tempted

[shy dust]

[ebon fulcrum]

So the suggestion is switching to vent ?

[limber lion]

We can't really give suggestions on which covenant to choose because it's a matter of preference in the end. But if you are looking to get the maximum ST dps out of your character, then yes, Venthyr would be the play.

[ebon fulcrum]

tnx !

[gusty mirage]

just an off the top of the head comparison, could a 220 anima battery be as good/better as a 220 IQD?

the CD on the battery is kinda wonky though tbh

[limber lion]

No, OAB is a 0.8% dps loss and IQD is a 0.5% dps increase.

I like the idea of having an IQD though

[undone eagle]

What horde rogue race do you suggest?

[limber lion]

But I cba grinding it, ughhh

[undone eagle]

For assa

[gusty mirage]

tauren rogue

[limber lion]

Doesn't reaaaally matter

Blood Elf is for the transmog-boys

Orc for the minmaxers

[gusty mirage]

I've been waiting 16 years for a tauren rogue damnit

[undone eagle]

Trolls has the haste racial right? 😛

[limber lion]

Yes, but Orc is better.

[gusty mirage]

they're all within an acceptable %, just pick which one you like best

unless you plan on PVPing too, then just go orc

[limber lion]

I just use Blood Elf because I like to look at my character often and not puke

[undone eagle]

I just did pvp rbg for sub gear when i used to play that spec

So nah

[gusty mirage]

I switched orc for pvp and all my mogs look terrible. It makes me so sad

[undone eagle]

Ye they just dont fit in

Undead + blood elf rogue looking good

Undead such nostalgi

[limber lion]

I made a Troll Fire Mage because of the haste only. He looks so fucking ugly

Those toes creep me out

[gusty mirage]

use the windigo woolies

[undone eagle]

xD

[gusty mirage]

problem solved

[limber lion]

Yeh, Undead is great. Fits the theme

[undone eagle]

U guys are horde players?

[limber lion]

But anyways, that's for #transmog

[undone eagle]

Im considering to switch to horde

[pure moth]

Horde is the only way @undone eagle

[limber lion]

Yes. Alliance has the best race for pure sim dps though, so that's sad.

[undone eagle]

Why i play ally is becuz of lore + my friends but 80% of them quit so..

My first character was an orc warrior pog

[red plaza]

Female orc is a pretty good model though. With a full helm, you can’t even tell it’s female 😂

[undone eagle]

True

[valid portal]

for pvp, should i go venthyr or necro ?

[icy crater]

@gusty mirage #transmog message

[cobalt flame]

[limber lion]

Huge

[gusty mirage]

I need this in my life

[icy crater]

#transmog message
Here is a female mog, no 2 items from the same set

kinda blend in when inside CN though lul

[charred wraith]

Do you guys hold a shiv until you can lend 2-3 envenoms for sure on sludge as you have to constantly spread and move, besides when approaching a pillar bump, or just use it on cd and hold it a bit before the pillar?

[balmy condor]

on sludge it's 1 shiv between pillars

and then hold for pillar

[charred wraith]

thank you very much

[subtle tundra]

ah i kill sire i get 2 items

2 conduits

thanks, game

[undone eagle]

F

[dense bramble]

hey, should i use sinful revelation on mh or oh or it doesn't matter?

[balmy condor]

doesn't matter

[dense bramble]

thanks!

[worldly bridge]

Hey would u play 220 marauder over 213 IQD for Council ? Sims says its better but targeting sucks sooo... idk

[balmy condor]

the fuck is marauder

[stoic needle]

Decanter?

[teal bloom]

Crafted 235 doomblade yesterday and I was top dps in 7 out of 8 Heroic kills we did today 😎

[red plaza]

[stoic needle]

[feral merlin]

[final star]

assassination pretty pog for m+ this week

for pumping inspired mobs

[thin inlet]

BFA sub

would’ve been so nice...

[final star]

legion sub >>>>

[thin inlet]

was assa/outlaw

that entire expac

[final star]

[thin inlet]

man... assa was rly fun

in legion

[final star]

literally sub was king from end of nh

[thin inlet]

what can I say

[final star]

to end of xpac

[worldly bridge]

idk the english for it, shriekwing's trinket

[final star]

assassination fort EN/ToV/NH prog

[thin inlet]

ye I didn’t play entire expac

only some tiers

[candid mountain]

What is the best covenant for Assassination Rogues?

For raiding.

[stoic needle]

Ah skulker's wing. It's kinda meh on council, you can use it and it hits a waiter and it'll be useless

[thin inlet]

probably missed the good sub ones

Venthyr

is best

[stoic needle]

Venthyr

[thin inlet]

for raiding

[final star]

NH onwards

was sub

[candid mountain]

Ok.

[final star]

so if you only played the first half

I guess?

[thin inlet]

yes

[stoic needle]

I want to do more keys this week but tanks just can't handle it it seems

[thin inlet]

and the very end but

didn’t seriously raid

so didn’t care enough

to go bis spec

[balmy condor]

I would iqd

[stoic needle]

The things I would do for a 226 iqd

I wonder if it's worth farming a 220....

[limber lion]

I'm in a DOS right now

For that exact reason

kek

[stoic needle]

Lmao

That's a trinket I genuinely haven't seen once all xpac

[limber lion]

nothing else to do

[stoic needle]

I remember simming it and it wasn't better than my 226 ooze but it could still be fun

And good for sludge etc

[thin inlet]

is IQD good for assa

got it in 220

[limber lion]

Yeh, especially for shorter fights

[thin inlet]

feels like a trinket that would sim a lot better than it is

how should I use it

[stoic needle]

For p*rsing

[thin inlet]

for execute or

I’m rly not familiar with it

[stoic needle]

You want the stats

During lust/vendetta

I mean the execute isn't bad either

But the stats are optimal

[thin inlet]

ok

is there something to look out for

I know there is multitude of effects

but I’m not entirely sure what the triggers are

[stoic needle]

There's a weakaura that will predict what you get when you press it

Just search iqd weakaura

On Google or wago.io

[thin inlet]

I see

ye I’ll just get that

let the weak auras do any thinking

[verbal wigeon]

!bis

[final star]

[stoic needle]

[charred wraith]

iirc it gives 1 of 2 of highest stats

[stoic needle]

I heard that it was always your highest stat during lust

[spice nymph]

So I'm at 17% haste and my sims just keep telling me to drop haste for crit/vers, am I just missing something or is haste just not big priority for venthyr anymore

[sullen pagoda]

it is always highest during lust and its 5sec longer

[stoic needle]

Haste is slightly less valuable as venthyr, yes

Because you get a lot from flag+thrill seeker

[thin inlet]

I’m running a lot of haste as necrolord

[teal bloom]

versatility is so boring stat 😦

[thin inlet]

and it’s still my best stat by far

[stoic needle]

Imagine wanting melee to be one of your top damage sources

[spice nymph]

Yeah, obviously it just feels weird chasing haste and now that I'm venthyr I don't anymore

[stoic needle]

Idk I have 22% haste as venthyr and it's still my top 2 stat

28% crit 22% haste

23 mastery 8% vers

I wanna be a 30% crit gamer

When you get like 3 4cp muts in a row

[spice nymph]

Well I have 30% crit, 17% haste, 16% mastery and 14% vers

[silent tinsel]

Well placed steal better on sludge vs dauntless?

[balmy condor]

stop giving a shit about secondaries

[balmy condor]

no

[stoic needle]

It's like mut > gar > env, mut > shiv > env, mut > mut > env

So satisfying

[teal bloom]

I had two 2 cp mutilates in a row in master assassin window today Sadge

felt so bad

[stoic needle]

Oof

[charred wraith]

I guess elaborate planning is just straight worse than blindside for sludge but ppl just running suboptimal talent and there is no idea behind it?

[silent tinsel]

I end up prioritizing the envenom over dots during vanish opener, dont know if that right

[balmy condor]

there was a build for EP NS MFD on sludge to full send it on pillars

EP is just more consistent I guess

slightly worse, but consistent

[limber lion]

I got a cloak 😦

[somber thistle]

So because I mainly push m+ I stuck with NF, but shold i be switching to Korayn now?

[limber lion]

Korayn is generally the better choice for M+, yeah.

If you use the MA legendary, Niya with Herbs can be a better choice.

[somber thistle]

I stuck with Zoldyck

[stoic needle]

Niya herbs is also solid for tyrannical weeks like this week

Good in aoe but also gives you a nice single target boost

[icy crater]

exang? 😮

[balmy condor]

LMAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

exsang

funny man

[icy crater]

oookay no reason to be toxic

[onyx wind]

guys sim no talent in that row

then sim exsanguinate

🙂

[prisma perch]

Nadja Well placed steel , dauntless duelist for ST

what is the go to for aoe?

[subtle tundra]

lashing scars is better than wps

[prisma perch]

oh

ty

[stoic needle]

Nadjia exacting prep or theotar with wasteland propriety

[prisma perch]

exacting prep really??

[stoic needle]

yes it sims very well even with cheap food

[prisma perch]

for st only?

[stoic needle]

for aoe

DD is better for ST

[royal lantern]

dauntlest is ST only

[prisma perch]

I see

[stoic needle]

it sims well in dungeon slice specifically

[royal lantern]

cus..its...only 1 target....

[prisma perch]

what potency for aoe?

[limber lion]

There's quite a few choices. Lashing Scars always, if that wasn't obvious, but then you have a choice between Poisoned Katar/Leeching Poison

Or WPS for slightly more ST damage, but if you're only looking for AOE then it doesn't help you much there

[prisma perch]

lashing scars is the best main one then?

[limber lion]

Yes

For all content.

[prisma perch]

and nadja as well?

[limber lion]

Ye

[prisma perch]

ah easy then

[limber lion]

Theotar with Wasteland is great for AoE

But you can just run Nadja for all your M+ needs if you cba.

[prisma perch]

is exac prep the go to also in aoe raid fight like altimore etc

[limber lion]

Well, it's a bit tough

For Huntsman Dauntless Duelist is the go-to

But for a more heavy AOE fight like Mythic SLG, you'd want Theotar with Wasteland probably.

It's really hard to say really.

And the difference is quite minimal in the end to be honest.

Just do what the logs are doing

[prisma perch]

so sunking is theotar

[limber lion]

I would actually disagree there, because of the nature of SSK

The umbrella from Theotar might drop in an awful place and then you get no value out of it

I would run Nadja with double potency instead there.

[prisma perch]

welp Ill have to look at the logs for conduits

i dont get rlly 100% the new gameplay style we have

[balmy condor]

we don't have a new gameplay style

[prisma perch]

ambush is new for shadowlands

shiv

[limber lion]

Shiv is Toxic Blade, so not new

[limber lion]

You don't press Ambush

See, same spec.

🙂

[prisma perch]

ambush is used for ST no??

[limber lion]

Only if Blindside procs

[icy crater]

or sepsis

[prisma perch]

ya i thought we play 331 in st

[icy crater]

332 is sometimes better

[prisma perch]

bcs venthyr

i see

[icy crater]

ye

sim it tho

[prisma perch]

but we use ambush tho

[icy crater]

wym

[balmy condor]

ambush is just on blindside proc

[icy crater]

yeah you press it occasionally

[balmy condor]

if proc, you replace the next mutilate

with an ambush

that's it

[prisma perch]

oh only if it procs?

[icy crater]

yea

[fathom lodge]

Any necros here ?

💩

[balmy condor]

many, yes

[prisma perch]

Ah st is easy

do we just CT once for the bleed in aoe?

or do we spam fok and ct?

[balmy condor]

you maintain CT single target when not in shiv

[limber lion]

Don't spam cock

[prisma perch]

lmao

[prisma perch]

CT ST?

i mean when in m+ for example

[balmy condor]

yes

if you have CT talented

you use it single target to maintain

when not in shiv

[prisma perch]

ya in shiv envenom

but i mean in aoe like 6 targets

do i spam fok

and keep CT