assassination

[dark token]

Only a tiny bit behind on ST

[raven locust]

Sins been the same spec since MoP lol

[slim siren]

fair last time i played sin for alot of time was back in the end of legion

[balmy condor]

And 8.3 was way fast

[dark token]

Ct on single target was mind-blowing

Made spec so smooth

[balmy condor]

[raven locust]

8.3 sin was a blast to play, too bad it was during a terrible expansion

[balmy condor]

And we still CT single target

Fucking trash spec

[dark token]

If you take the talent you mean

[balmy condor]

Well yeah

[lament mica]

8.3 was fun once the vendor came out

[slim siren]

i came back in 8.3 and hated the rng dmg xD

vendor was a great addition tho

[balmy condor]

Legion was so much worse for rng damage

[slim siren]

really? i didnt think so not worse then someone getting a ton of mindflays and it doing 50% of their dps

[balmy condor]

Yeah but we all went expedient

[lament mica]

pretty sure that ability autoprocced with an internal cd

anyway

[balmy condor]

Legion with poison bomb

[slim siren]

then again i quit playing dh cause of the rng dmg in havoc

[balmy condor]

Was actually just fucking awful

[raven locust]

Poison Bomb dictated your DPS so much in Legion, it could vary from 18-20% of your ST dps to 5%

[balmy condor]

20%?

That’s really cute bud

Enjoy your blue logs

[slim siren]

i agree but posion bomb rng gave me an 100% ilvl in burning throne xD

[queen galleon]

I really like the Ep vigor build on sludge

[raven locust]

I have rank 1s on every boss in Antorus

🤔

[balmy condor]

I’ve seen 40% poison bombs

That was the real shit

[slim siren]

i dont know i still kinda enjoy posion bomb but they really should rework it to be after x number of combo points or somthing

[balmy condor]

Ik, Issa joke homie

[raven locust]

Dont remember it being that much but could be misremembering

[slim siren]

i dont either but it was usually 4th or 3rd to be fair

still beats a tank nuking a whole pack xD

[balmy condor]

Well to be fair, I wasn’t playing with good people in legion

[queen galleon]

Its funny to me how much CN servers do not care about sin

And just stan outlaw

[slim siren]

legions when i finnaly got into mythic raiding for one xpac

then never again lol

[balmy condor]

But it wasn’t uncommon to see Pb #1

[lament mica]

i was so confused for a second

i was like wtf is a castle nathria server

[queen galleon]

Lmao

[lament mica]

i thought that one sin was from china

[balmy condor]

Same

[lament mica]

the with with 100 PIs

[queen galleon]

Peen ?

[balmy condor]

Passassin

[lament mica]

yeah that

[queen galleon]

Passassin is getting every pi in the world

[slim siren]

wait your parses never go down in percent right even if someone does better then you?

[lament mica]

right

[queen galleon]

And peen is a KR player

[slim siren]

k

[lament mica]

ur rank goes down but ur original parse stays same

[balmy condor]

It depends on the time window

[lament mica]

but it should still say ur original rank

[slim siren]

yea i went back to one of my 100% parses on defense and it was 21% pb xD

good old times

[balmy condor]

Parses are based on that 2 week window

So anything past that 2 week window

Won’t affect your parse

[queen galleon]

Just wished assassin would have got that buff way before

So I could have use it on more than one boss

[slim siren]

yea pb wasnt that bad it was like 10% on a 95% parse

idk i still miss artifacts not that terrible leggo system tho

[balmy condor]

It was even worse in m+

Tbf

[slim siren]

oh true in mythic plus i could see it doing alot more

[balmy condor]

Fishing for Pb proc in order to be able to do aoe

Is kinda tragic

The fok thing helped a little

[lofty yarrow]

Is there any rogue who managed to push 2K+ rio rating as an outlaw and rerolled assassination?
Can assassination be better than outlaw based on personal experience please.
And thanks in advance 🙂

[slim siren]

fishing for pb then vanishing to get ma procs

fun times

[lament mica]

outlaw in pvp?

[balmy condor]

I assume 2k io

[queen galleon]

He means io

[lament mica]

oh lol duh

[lofty yarrow]

Rio xD

[slim siren]

still want them to change it to make it drop after like 20 cps

[lament mica]

i was so confused for now the second time in like 10 minutes holy

[queen galleon]

And I mean, sin can be really useful some week on some dungeon

[lament mica]

lol

[queen galleon]

But overall outlaw is the best

[lofty yarrow]

A question is pve by default , right ? XD

[slim siren]

do people even play outlaw in pvp xD

[lament mica]

ppl come in the class channels and ask pvp questions all the time, but no ur right

they don't lol

[queen galleon]

• that's if you have a team cause, normand player do not want sin in high m+ xd

[slim siren]

didnt think so

[queen galleon]

Outlaw in pvp is turbo garbage

[slim siren]

law is turbo garbage in general

[queen galleon]

?

[slim siren]

(inc outlaw players mad at me)

[queen galleon]

I'm mad at you

Nice bait

[slim siren]

xD i just hate that spec

[lament mica]

outlaw is good at what outlaw is good at

thats my hot take

[slim siren]

played it in the start of the xpac and was getting gray parses on all bosses switched to sin even tho it was worse and was still doing better

[lofty yarrow]

Well TBH i don’t wanna change from outlaw anymore , since 9.0.5 i deal nearly same damage as boomie/mages in 21+ dungeons so don’t wanna change atm

[slim siren]

im just not an outlaw player

combat was fun tho i miss combat

[queen galleon]

Outlaw might be the easiest spec of the 3

[lofty yarrow]

But need to change for raids and muscle memory needs training 😒

[slim siren]

wait really?

ive always thought it was the hardest/most rng dependant

i thought i was just bad xD

[odd python]

this is easiest cmon

xd

[lofty yarrow]

I personally don’t think outlaw is easiest at allll

It depends , if you wanna be really good outlaw then it’s hard

[lament mica]

thats true for every spec

[void pecan]

There's a bunch of minmax shit if you wanna be good

[lofty yarrow]

If you wanna be just okay then it’s easiest yeah

[uneven plume]

i forgot

can you play sin with dagger/sword?

O.O

[slim siren]

no

[lament mica]

no

[queen galleon]

No

[uneven plume]

=[

thx

[lofty yarrow]

Exactly and co-ordination

[slim siren]

sad ik cause i have a 216 mace sitting im inv ill never use

while im running 200 weapons

[queen galleon]

The minmax argument is literally useable on every spec

[void pecan]

Otherwise you can just roll bones and turn on blade fury. Ez clap

[lament mica]

i haven't played much outlaw at all so I won't comment on its difficulty, but theres no spec in the game that doesn't have min/max shit lol so that's not much of an argument

[lofty yarrow]

But for outlaw the margin is way way much bigger

[void pecan]

Yup

[slim siren]

didnt the rtb change make it alot easier tho in that regard

[lofty yarrow]

Outlaw is the hardest to min max 🙂

[slim siren]

since you dont minmax rolls anymore

[void pecan]

You're stuck with rolls for whatever amount of time

[queen galleon]

So what's so 5head on law? xd

Like I'm really not buying it

[lament mica]

if u wanna see how 'hard' a spec is just check how well good players parse compared to trash players

[queen galleon]

Difficulty wise I still believe that it's really easy to master compare to sub or sin

Comparing parse on law can be a bit tricky

[slim siren]

doesnt really count pod cause rng depends so much on rolls

[queen galleon]

Since a run with full godroll is really different from a basic run

And that's something you can't "minmax"

[lament mica]

of course there's rng, but after thousands of examples of data u can still get something out of it

[slim siren]

ye but if your looking at parses your gonna see rng god parses at top generally

atleast i think idk

[lament mica]

i more mean looking at a graph like this

the classes with the longest bars should in general be 'harder' but there's a ton of factors

[queen galleon]

Do not get baited

It's a 9.0.5

Graph

[slim siren]

frost mage is so easy tho

[lament mica]

ya im not saying to analyze that graph in particular ij ust screenshotted the first thing, im just showing wat i mean

[slim siren]

fair

[strange python]

I feel like those graphs are full of shit half the time...not enuf data/parses and some fight scew it heavily

[queen galleon]

That frost mage one

Is fucked bcs one mage parsed at 0 on sludge

If I remember correctly

[slim siren]

xD

[strange python]

Fights *

[slim siren]

yea i was looking at outlaw parses and its memes cause you just see the highest dmg have the best rtb for like 62% of the fights

[queen galleon]

Top 10 might yeah

But after that you can found some regular rng outlaw logs

[strange python]

Must be nice getting broadside over and over xd

[queen galleon]

And pi

[slim siren]

yea then i look at 100th pl,ace and its just oh broadside is up 30% of the time and he now does more dmg with auto attacks

idk how to even read that spec pro why i had to stop playing it

[strange python]

I wouldn't mind outlaw if it wasn't so heavily rng based with rtb

Wtb old combat

[slim siren]

yea thats why i stoped it

same reason i stopped playing dh

every time i fought the same boss on progression i went from top dps to mid pack

[strange python]

U get shit rolls oh wow this feels hella bad

[slim siren]

i wish they would get rid of alot of rng from spec tbh

but here we are

[strange python]

Why I'm trying to transition back into sin...was my main since legion. I'll admit, I still go outlaw for keys tho cuz bf is poggers

[slim siren]

yea sins better on the rng department def

still has to much tho

tho our rng atleast on single target is mostly seal fate

isnt terrible but i could go without it

[velvet nacelle]

got our first hungering kill and i parsed an amazing 13%

double digits baby! we ready for big time!

[slim siren]

lets goooo

[velvet nacelle]

figures the guilds best pull is my worst pull of the night

i was so focused on my "stay alive" buttons i definitely fell off my rotation hard

i wasn't even potting or eating for the last few pulls tonight when we got it

[slim siren]

hey staying alive is more dps then doing optimal dmg and dying

[velvet nacelle]

honestly just happy to get the kill

yeah i got so many miasma's and shit on that pull

i probably spent as much energy on feint as i did on mutilate heh

i honestly give zero shits about parses other than as a shit talking point after the fact

at least on progression

i kinda wanna bump/pad some heroic parses but we never do heroic

when i used to raid lead back in BC saying "i was top dps til i died" was the quickest way to get benched for the night

[carmine dawn]

!ct

[junior patrol]

!opener

[carmine dawn]

why do we mutilate out of stealth instead of ambush

[sleek sparrow]

!mut

[prisma monolith]

Ambush is currently only used from blindside/sepsis proc, not from stealth.
The reasoning is a little complicated, but the most important of them is the difference in combo points on crit (up to 4 vs 3).
Some other factors to consider are increased poison applications, blindside, and doomblade. This is true for all talent combinations and legendaries.

[carmine dawn]

ty

[slim siren]

hold up did soulbind recommendations just get updated yesterday or am i crazy

cause i thought naj with a pot conduit was better

[vestal wren]

nadija uses a potency conduit (slashing)

[slim siren]

yea but i thought she used double pot

[vestal wren]

doubtless duelist has higher value than a potency, so it should be ahead

possible that it changes with the next tier and higher potency ranks

but you can always double check in a sim, if you are in doubt

[slim siren]

alright cool i just thought there was a diff path a week ago

[limber lion]

For AoE, a lot of people are going double potency conduit

[slim siren]

ah ok

[limber lion]

Dauntless is heavily ST focused

[slim siren]

so m+ just go lashing and lethel then

[limber lion]

It's either Theotar with single potency and wasteland, or Nadja with double potency with Lashing + LP/FoK conduit

Yeh, Leather Poisons sims higher for me personally

Some people like the extra 5% crit that you get from the FoK conduit

[slim siren]

cool yea my lethal conduit is alot higher anyway

[limber lion]

Even if it sims a little bit lower

[timber gale]

hey so - is it just me or is grievous spiteful m+ the most hateful thing for rogues lmao

I think I managed to stealth without vanish about 5 times total in the halls I just did

I figured maybe I should just not take Subterfuge this week but it’s not as though things in that row are much better??

[limber lion]

Spiteful is absolutely an awful affix all around

And even worse for our class which is dependent on stealthing between packs.

[slim siren]

its the worse thing unless your killing the at teh same time

[limber lion]

Tanks already hate Assa rogues, this week even more

[timber gale]

When playing Frost DK as long as I’m not the first target I still just kinda cleave nonstop, I just wanted to make sure it wasn’t just me

[fossil slate]

Just play outlaw doesn't feel bad at all 😂

[timber gale]

is outlaw not as reliant on stealth?

[fossil slate]

Only really for the extra roll chance from CtO

But you also get additional attack range

[limber lion]

The current popular MA/KS build is as well as CTO are

But it's not as major

Outlaw still pumps if you go with Celerity this week

[timber gale]

yeah i don't rly do anything other than sin on my alt, so I'm likely to just suffer for a bit - prob get 2 chests and call it good

[fossil slate]

Yeah I'm still yet to make an MA and pulled 6.8k overall in a 19 mists without using CtO accidently 😂

[fossil slate]

I really enjoy sin in dungeons but spiteful specifically I just CBA dealing with running out of melee range

[grave cove]

How are y'all catching up with renown. I swear I'm hard stuck on 28 renown and doing all sorts of content

[limber lion]

I just did LFR/Normal and the covenant campaign from start to finish and was 30. But I guess I was a bit lucky with raid drops.

A lot of people are complaining that they get hard stuck at some point for no reason

[rancid gulch]

!bis

[limber lion]

There's some hidden Blizzard mechanic that fucks up with your renown

[grave cove]

Ah didn't know LFR also works, might just do that

Hmm yeah, I definitely feel like nothing is moving. Did an entire Normal raid and got 0

[limber lion]

I never had any hard or softlocks, but some people are complaining that they were getting renown just fine and then suddenly it stopped altogether

[limber lion]

Yeah, I got 9 from Normal

[grave cove]

JESUS

Ok might have to push through LFR

[limber lion]

That's around the normal rate, your character is just fucked

No one has any idea what it is that causes the hardcaps for some people.

[grave cove]

Yeah blizz ticket gave me a half-assed answer along the lines of "it is intended to be slow"

Ah well thx for the pointers on LFR, hopefully I'll get lucky there

[limber lion]

Well I got 30 renown in 2 days and some people get hardstuck at 14, not sure what Blizzard's thing there is

"Supposed to be slow - except for some people"

kek

[fossil slate]

I just spammed PFs looking for my trinket and did the campaign and weekly quests when they popped. Got to 40 in like 9 days

Oh and of course callings

But I got to 30 on like 4 or 5 days and that's all I cared about and had my trinket by that point so I stopped farming dungeons at that point

[brisk forge]

Changed to vent this reset and got to 30 aswell in 2 days but not a singel renown after that 😜

[lilac ridge]

!guide

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
RH: https://www.ravenholdt.net/guides/assassination-rogue-guide-shadowlands-raid-dps/
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide

[shadow tusk]

Does it make a difference which wep you have enchants on?

[tribal marlin]

No it doesn't

Don't feel force to buy 2 new enchants whenever you switch your MH to your OH and equip a new MH, it really doesn't matter at all (Off-hands enchants trigger from abilities from MH anyway).

[solar vortex]

haven't done assa pvp recently, mostly be doing sub. Anyone around 2100(+), for conquest gear should i start picking up haste substat gear, is my mastery gear for sub fine? should i do crit ? What is the consensus here from doing mostly sub pvp/pve

[austere gorge]

may I know what is the stats priority for assasination?

[verbal sparrow]

is Frond a good trinket for assa ?

[fossil slate]

Its never simmed well for me

[undone eagle]

So basically as an assa rogue in m+ you just wanna spam bleeds like garrote , rupture & crimson for energy regen?

[digital zodiac]

Are you guys running Theotar for m+ ?

[limber lion]

Double potency Nadja

[limber lion]

Pretty much. Bleed everything that survive the full duration, keep CT up at all times and fill with Envenom

[undone eagle]

@limber lion oh when they pull big i never use envenom, i just spammed fan of knives + CT

i guesss that was a mistake xD

cuz i got like 12 sec bleed with CT

at 5 points

[limber lion]

Unless it's a really, really big pack (like in DoS Ardenweald portion) then you don't want to spam it

[undone eagle]

alriight

[limber lion]

The Env buff increases your damage by quite a bit when you're using FoK actively

[prime robin]

I have celerity and MA legendaries for outlaw and sub. I want to try Assass for ST fights. do i buy doomblade legendary as an obvious pick? ty

[icy haven]

yea doomblade is ahead of zolds on most fights

[tropic echo]

the gladiator proc trinket is better than the use one right? for pve

[shy axle]

does the cto outlaw conduict work for assa or why is it mentioned that often in this channel?

[gentle gyro]

The one that gives you a rtb enhancement?

Man really had to pick my brain, count the odds. It used to work at least, i assume it still does

[balmy condor]

Yes it works

People think it’s really novel or that they’re the first to find it or they’re curious if it’s good I guess

It used to come up a lot more

Nowadays we just get the “why mut from stealth”

And “why deeper over vigor”

[manic crescent]

vigor or deeper strat ?

[balmy condor]

Exactly

[low girder]

the pfp works very well

[icy haven]

WhY No Ambush From SteaLth

[foggy maple]

Is sin good in M+ ? Considering to switch from outlaw

[balmy condor]

It’s worse than outlaw in basically every way imaginable except single target

[brisk forge]

Only change if u like assa better and dont care for declines

[balmy condor]

The declines will happen regardless

95% of groups won’t even look at your spec

[low girder]

dps in a sea of dps apps atm

not only that, a dps without lust

[loud silo]

RTB doesnt have as much impact as you seem to think it does, sorry its a late response

[alpine garden]

Do we run CT for Sire?

[lament mica]

prob to pad. job as sin is to do ST in p3 tho.

[slender berry]

nah

[keen tree]

There is also the fact that it is an actual rogue spec unlike outlaw.

[worldly yarrow]

!iqd

Ok, so here it is, and sorry if it was answered before

Is IQD as good as it sims (pun intended) or is it sim bait for raid. If any good, use ore-pull?

[solar hare]

You can change it in the settings, either to always proc stats or not

Its right above the run sim button

In the little section with buffs and weapon oils and stuff

[hollow escarp]

if you are lucky you might get a rank 1 healing parse

[solar hare]

[worldly yarrow]

Lol

[solar hare]

Recuperator, cloaked in shadows, fleshcraft, full leech

Im pumping

[hollow escarp]

IQD on top of that

[solar hare]

Easy

[hollow escarp]

a boomie in my raid was top healling from the dps group because his IQD procced the heal

[solar hare]

Lmfaoo

[worldly yarrow]

So... not very big fans of IQD in Sin uh?

[solar hare]

Boutta run my 226 hateful chain

Tell my healers to keep me low

Let me self heal a bit

[worldly yarrow]

For dps, not healin

[hollow escarp]

IQD is good, but it doesn't look reliable

probably on Shriekwing

[solar hare]

Typically with iqd in raids what happens is that you’ll get stats for the first one 100% of the time and then its a gamble if you get stats or give a healer some mana for the second

[hollow escarp]

yeah

[solar hare]

I enjoy using it in m+ from time to time

[hollow escarp]

you get stats on pull usually

[solar hare]

Less likely to fuck up

Im not sure how it is for assa m+ tho, not sure how much they can do in the stat window

[dark marten]

what does IQD mean?

[solar hare]

Inscrutable quantum device

DoS trinket

[worldly yarrow]

Can’t go IQD stats pre-pull, then trinket swap just before running in?

[dark marten]

thanks!

[meager kelp]

wow, muti damage in 9.0.5 is good

i have tried it now

[solar hare]

99% sure taking off the trinket gets rid of the buff

[hollow escarp]

did muti damage change?

[meager kelp]

its good

[hollow escarp]

or you mean the doomblade legendary?

[solar hare]

Doomblade gaming

[meager kelp]

no, its more playable now

ma leg

[worldly yarrow]

Thanks for answers! Might be good to add an !IQD bit, for likely frequent

[hollow escarp]

[meager kelp]

I like it now

i think to go muti

[onyx wind]

Its very good in dungeons and short fights, and very inconsistent in raids

[hollow escarp]

most top logs on Shriekwing HC are with IQD on multiple specs

[onyx wind]

Yea, they fixed that in a hotfix not long ago

Yea, dont look at HC logs

[hollow escarp]

well, I was just confirming your take

it's good on short fights

[onyx wind]

for sure, just that most raid fights arent actually that short

[hollow escarp]

did anybody even 1 phase Shriekwing Mythic?

[solar hare]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/26#metric=dps&dataset=95&class=Rogue&spec=Assassination&combatantinfo=Trinkets

[onyx wind]

not that i know of

[solar hare]

I dont think thats very possible yet

[toxic tusk]

The poison trinket? If you take it off you lose the buff.

Oh wait, quantum device.

[hollow escarp]

it's a stretch on HC as well

[manic crescent]

what poison for offhand ?

[slender berry]

youd need almost 200k raid dps to one phase shriekwing mythic

[hollow escarp]

numbing if you wanna soothe, crippling if you don't hate your tank

in raid always numbing

[solar hare]

Crippling pepelaugh

[hollow escarp]

I use crippling in M+

I'm not gonna hold my cd to soothe an ad

[onyx wind]

Maybe running 1-1-18 with boomies or smth

U can one phase it mythic

[manic crescent]

@hollow escarp thx

[solar hare]

Echo killed it in 59 seconds on HC with 29 boomkins and a dh tank

[slender berry]

yea they had 300k dps with 30 people

so the 200k with 20 people is gonna be real tight

[solar hare]

The sludge was hilarious

[hollow escarp]

my fastest kills lol

1k more dps as venthyr

[solar hare]

20 million damage on one pillar

[orchid elk]

How do I use cds on mythic sludgefist? (flag and vendetta)

[hollow escarp]

1.2k actually

[onyx wind]

On pull and hold for pillars

[slender berry]

pull 2nd pillar 4th pillar

[solar hare]

If youre lusting 4th pillar you use it on pull 2nd and 4th

Which not lusting 4th is like

[orchid elk]

should i save flag for vendetta (3 casts) or on cd and have 4 casts

[onyx wind]

yes save it

[hollow escarp]

on Sludge

[limber lion]

https://gyazo.com/fbea9e6f667dc78914ddaca748118389
Fastest kill and the highest dps kill as Night Fae. Venthyr is a scam

[hollow escarp]

I'm gonna beat that next week

[limber lion]

Jk, I was also using Master Assa + DFV

Which was kinda busted

https://gyazo.com/c46eddb43946fe93bb280cb16044fb34
Actually such a fun build

But requires a giga group or it's dog

[hollow escarp]

yep

I have the HC version

some guildies have the mythic though

might worth stacking

[limber lion]

Holy imagine Master Assa + Mythic DFV

Ah, never got the chance to try that out

I'm so sad

[hollow escarp]

you mean on Shriekwing?

[limber lion]

In general

[hollow escarp]

ohh ok

before the nerf

[limber lion]

Yeaah

[hollow escarp]

damn, you got 200 more dps than me lol

but your kill was faster I think

[limber lion]

Nope

6s longer

Mine was 1:53

But that was pre-nerf MA and NF

[hollow escarp]

that korean guy too my alliance r1 spot

[limber lion]

My best Venthyr kill is 7.1k 😢

Damn, you play on Alliance?

[hollow escarp]

ohh yea

[limber lion]

A rare breed

[hollow escarp]

40 dps lol

[limber lion]

Wow what an awful emote, never using that again

[hollow escarp]

[onyx wind]

mechagnome?

[limber lion]

Sorry that you had to see that

[hollow escarp]

night elf

[onyx wind]

how does it play

[limber lion]

Damn, I want meld

Arcane Torrent is shit

[hollow escarp]

meld is op in M+

every week

[onyx wind]

seen a few nelfs

[hollow escarp]

this week even more

for resets

with spitefuls up

[onyx wind]

what does it do in rids

raids*

[hollow escarp]

meld?

[onyx wind]

yea

[hollow escarp]

save food buff on wipe

[onyx wind]

oh

thought it actually worked

[hollow escarp]

I think it works, not sure

we had a discussion about this a few days ago here

nvm, it worked with shrouded suffocation

but it would apply the SS garrote damage buff

not the subterfuge

[onyx wind]

weird

[hollow escarp]

mechagnome is probably best race for raiding

but in m+ you don't look just at damage output

you want to look good in your transmog

[limber lion]

Lmao

[onyx wind]

wait...

are u male or female nelf...

[hollow escarp]

both

[limber lion]

Yeah NF and MG are both really good in high end M+

[hollow escarp]

I swapped to female nelf because of zoom camera distance

[lofty shell]

that's my issue with most male chars they're just too thicc

[onyx wind]

also their animations are shit

[hollow escarp]

yeah, nelf males look so dumb

[onyx wind]

ye theyre even worse than belf males

[tropic echo]

realistically if you don't look like this wyd

[onyx wind]

bad timing

[hollow escarp]

lol

[glacial quarry]

which other trinkets should i aim for alongside phial for m+? I imagine dreadfire for raid

[hollow escarp]

skulkers is nice in m+

[onyx wind]

battery and IQD are good for m+

[tropic echo]

lol

[hollow escarp]

I like some on demand 14-25k hits

[onyx wind]

battery cause it lines up with flag, IQD is insane on bosses

[glacial quarry]

noice, i have IQD atm but it's at 200

i have noticed my dmg is kinda ridiculous on bosses when time warp is added + i pop IQD

[onyx wind]

yea its gucci

[glacial quarry]

crit is my highest stat atm tho

[onyx wind]

thats good

[glacial quarry]

[hollow escarp]

all my trinkets

[glacial quarry]

that goddamn bell

[onyx wind]

decanter :)

[glacial quarry]

i have been hunting that bell on my druid for months

i have decanter & IQD atm

[hollow escarp]

decanter simmed single target for me better before getting phial

[onyx wind]

i want 226 IQD

[thorny pond]

226 iqd from vault would make every week with 3 belts worth it

[hollow escarp]

I have the bell but I don't see where and when I will ever use it.

[glacial quarry]

i have 226 iqd on my druid, but only 200 on my rogue

[lofty shell]

decanter > memory of sins for me lmao

even in actual raid fights that are not sims

[hollow escarp]

same, decanter 226 sims better than 220 DFV

[onyx wind]

our cooldowns arent good enough to make the zone trinket good

[slender berry]

wdym bro check the transmog channel wdym mechagnome doesnt look good 😠

[limber lion]

Wait on ST?

[hollow escarp]

yes

[limber lion]

Sick

[onyx wind]

220 DFV is pretty bad for its ilvl

[hollow escarp]

I think it's because it procs often

[lofty shell]

is decanter affected by haste or something

ye

idk why but its just rlly good

[glacial quarry]

my decanter seems to proc all the time

[limber lion]

Decanter was my first proper trinket that I got in Shadowlands but it was absolute dogshit and simmed really bad for me.

[lofty shell]

i got 216 decanter and it sims above 220 trinks :/

[hollow escarp]

also on council it's good because the damage is higher on multiple target so that also means more single target damage

[limber lion]

Maybe it scales really hard from ilvl and maybe the flat buffs helped it some.

[keen tree]

Same but it was on the night fae mission table just a few days ago so i snagged it then.

[glacial quarry]

the bell?

[hollow escarp]

but in M+ Decanter does less damage than skulker

I do use skulker on CD though

[keen tree]

Yes.

[glacial quarry]

i've given up on the bell, iqd is good enough for my druid lmao

[lofty shell]

is the bell a wq trink

[glacial quarry]

ye

[hollow escarp]

I have 194 bell on my rogue and my 199 hunter

[lofty shell]

is it actually good at 194 ilvl

[hollow escarp]

you can get it 203 version

[glacial quarry]

yep

[lofty shell]

like better than 220 trink?

[glacial quarry]

it was great even at 184

[hollow escarp]

668 mastery

[keen tree]

It's been up a few time actually. But yeah im using IQD and the Mists trinket. Mists is 226 and the first run i did after 9.0.5 when upgradeable items became available was an IQD from DoS 15 lol.

[onyx wind]

i think u swap bell on druid for SoA trinket

[limber lion]

How long does the IQD buff last?

[onyx wind]

but its good until then

[glacial quarry]

well, you run SoA trinket + bell

[keen tree]

EoD?

[limber lion]

No one knows?

[onyx wind]

dont u run SoA + IQD?

[hollow escarp]

never had IQD

[limber lion]

Yeh me neither

[hollow escarp]

I have 171 version on priest

[glacial quarry]

for raids, i think you want to run IQD > bell

[hollow escarp]

but didn't track it

[glacial quarry]

but bell is better for m+

[limber lion]

Just wondering if you can mix it with some other trinkets

If the duration of the buff is long enough

[lofty shell]

i have iqd on my mage but don't have the WA just /pray

[limber lion]

Like if it's 30s, that would be insane on Sludgy

[hollow escarp]

ye

double on use

[onyx wind]

You can mix

Its not that good

[glacial quarry]

double on use on sludge as a boomie is disgusting, my guild had a pretty meh boomie, a purple parser at best, but he had double trinket and was insane on sludge

[onyx wind]

Its 20 seconds

You used to be able to use it and swap trinkets

And maintain the buff

So you could prepop memories, prepop IQD

[hollow escarp]

I'm glad you can't do that though

[onyx wind]

and get 3x on use

[lofty shell]

xD

[hollow escarp]

yeah, it's annoying to have to do that lol

[glacial quarry]

you can prepop IQD still, not sure you can swap it tho

for m+ that is

[onyx wind]

Yea u cant swap it off

memories prepop still works

just ask for a 20 second pulltimer :)

[glacial quarry]

prepop incarn as bear with iqd

free first pull

[tropic echo]

do you mut over ambush even without doomblade?

[hollow escarp]

yes

[onyx wind]

Yes, because of alacrity

[hollow escarp]

!ambush

[prisma monolith]

Macroing Ambush to Mutilate only works with the use of a addon.
It comes with the downside that it often requires multiple key presss.
Suggested addon to use(Gnome Sequencer):http://tiny.cc/mxb6tz
Showcase Video: #assassination message

[hollow escarp]

fuck

[onyx wind]

And blindside if you play that

[hollow escarp]

I never get it

[stoic needle]

Have y'all heard about using the soul letting ruby on agi/str classes

[hollow escarp]

idk about that, but I wanna try the tank trinket from DoS

inspired by Seli ofc

[glacial quarry]

macroing ambush with muti

[tropic echo]

interesting

so if you're not using blindside ambush is a dead ability lol

[hollow escarp]

yes

[onyx wind]

Pretty much

[tropic echo]

very well designed spec :))

[hollow escarp]

well

[stoic needle]

https://www.wowhead.com/item=178809/soulletting-ruby

[onyx wind]

If ur playing some weird build without alacrity and blindside

u can ambush all u want

[glacial quarry]

it's a shame because ambush looks so cool

[stoic needle]

Look at how much crit that gives

The cd syncs with vendetta

[tropic echo]

but alacrity is never not the play 😦

[onyx wind]

Exactly :)

[hollow escarp]

alacrity is the reason exsang is not viable

[onyx wind]

Dude

Even if alacrity was removed

we wouldnt go exsang

[tropic echo]

maybe in theory you can run EX in 2s or 3s for burst

[hollow escarp]

just let me believe

[onyx wind]

that talent is like a +100 dps increase compared to not having a talent at all

ITS SO BAD

[stoic needle]

Exsang is better than venom rush so yes we would lol

[onyx wind]

Oh, tried some sims the other day

Exsang was worse

Maybe i wasnt playing subterfuge or smth

[stoic needle]

I don't believe that

[onyx wind]

let me see

Yea exsang is 250 dps worse than venom rush

[stoic needle]

Link the sim

[hollow escarp]

I hate it that I need to swap sockets before simming

[onyx wind]

Running vigor/subterfuge/EP is worse on exsang

[stoic needle]

Link the whole sim I mean

[tropic echo]

STILL wondering if vulpera racial is buffed by vendetta lol

[stoic needle]

You're so running MA and not subterfuge

[thin inlet]

could that possibly change with vers/crit gear instead of haste

[glacial quarry]

i need to make a talent macro for CT and ambush, since i never use CT and blindside together

[onyx wind]

yes

cause its better than subterfuge

could be shitty APL

but who knows

[stoic needle]

Subterfuge would definitely work better with exsang though that's my point

[onyx wind]

+40% damage on garrote is almost nothing single target tho

But yea intuitively i would say the same

Profile is running very low mastery aswell

and bleeds just dont deal any dmg

[brittle horizon]

!oh

[prisma monolith]

Mutilate requires a dagger in both hands, this makes using a non dagger weapons undesirable.

[slender berry]

i think exsanguinate just sucks because of doomblade
let me reword , it sucks even more compared to venomrush than before doomblade buffs

[limber lion]

Wut

[onyx wind]

There are prob 100 better builds than the stock profile

[glacial quarry]

imagine getting dagger drops in m+

[onyx wind]

for making exsang better

So yea its prob making exsang look worse than it is

[limber lion]

Exsanguinate has been bad for the longest time now. It only worked in 8.1 because of SS and in 8.3 because of Expedient stacking

[onyx wind]

Maybe its not 100% garbage but only 98.3% garbage

[strange python]

Yeah, it even took a lot in 8.3 to get exsang to sim higher

[limber lion]

Yeah, you needed 7x Expedient III's for it to pull ahead with 3x Shrouded Suffocation traits

It requires A LOT to be better

[glacial quarry]

i'm glad, i hope they buff it and make it good once i have the assass rotation down 100%

[thin inlet]

man how good was assa early BFA with triple SS

[onyx wind]

TRUE

[thin inlet]

that shit was incredibly fun

[onyx wind]

miss that shit man

[stoic needle]

Subterfuge is 80%

[onyx wind]

been pvping too much

[limber lion]

It was very overtuned for sure.

[stoic needle]

But I have trouble believing that exsang is worse than 8 energy refund on mutilate

That's just complete dog

[onyx wind]

Well yea it is absolutely shit

[hollow escarp]

you guys made me sad now

because I realized I will never be able to play exsang on sludgefist

imagine ss exsang on sludgefist

[onyx wind]

Exsang also just made the spec fun

If it was as good as alacrity i think a lot of people would play it

[hollow escarp]

I liked playing it in M+

[onyx wind]

EW

WHAT

[limber lion]

Venom Rush was the go-to talent in Legion, but back then it shared a row with Death from Above and MFD

[glacial quarry]

[limber lion]

Yeah, Exsang was OP in M+ honestly

[hollow escarp]

TB was boring, just press on cd

[strange python]

Venom rush just gave more energy on bleeds to in legion

[limber lion]

You just slap it and get crazy energy returns whilst you were putting your other bleeds up

[drifting light]

Make exang speed up all ur targets affected by bleeds, not only main target

[strange python]

They changed it to just mutilate for some reason

[limber lion]

Or you could just ST focus a target with it

[hollow escarp]

yes

was pretty versatile

[glacial quarry]

that'd be insane in m+

[tropic echo]

it's 80%

in pve at least

[onyx wind]

yea been pvping too much sry

[glacial quarry]

spread bleeds, exsang, watch everything melt

[drifting light]

Would be dope

[tropic echo]

sub garrote does more than 6cp rupture

very close

[hollow escarp]

I feel like it's a bit too much to ask Blizzard to make exsang great now

when they need to give Sub some love

[drifting light]

Cant spread love with blizz, got to fully fix 1 spec, sin is still designed by a monkey with a passive that makes u ignore an active ability, and the mut > ambush debacle

[glacial quarry]

ye, i prefer ass, but i'd like the option of being able to go sub

[limber lion]

More of a thigh-guy myself

[hollow escarp]

ass is also the default rogue spec for boosted rogue characters

so I can see why they wanna make it work

before others

[glacial quarry]

tiddy dom here

assassination is probably the strongest thematically for rogue, imo

[tropic echo]

that never made sense to me

[thin inlet]

I very much dislike everything about modern sub

[tropic echo]

like

is the rogue identity poisons and bleeds? or is it stealth?

[thin inlet]

never understood the appeal

[hollow escarp]

both

[glacial quarry]

both, it's garona

[tropic echo]

but then which spec resonates more with rogue then lol

[limber lion]

Just sim'd it with a bis profile, and Venom Rush sims 180 dps higher on 5 mins. Sim'd all talents, with Zold/Doom/MA and both Venth/Necro

[glacial quarry]

and the belf assassin person

[tropic echo]

"outlaw" :^)

[hollow escarp]

Valeera

all rogue characters are hot horde races

[strange python]

I hope blizzard removes spiteful affix - none of my friends get how bad it is for rogue xD

[hollow escarp]

and then we have Mathias Shaw

[drifting light]

Garona is sin, valeera is sin too?

[hollow escarp]

valeera looks sin

[drifting light]

Mathias maybe sub

[tropic echo]

eh who cares about garona she has fork in her name

[hollow escarp]

the pirate guy is Outlaw

[glacial quarry]

she's got the rona

[hollow escarp]

forgot his name

the one that gave you Dreadblades

Tethys?

[drifting light]

Did that guy even existed?

Like outside the dreadblades thingy

[hollow escarp]

yes

well, most rogue characters weren't that big in lore

except Garona I think

[glacial quarry]

valeera is kind of big, although not that much

big enough to be the face of rogue in HS tho

[drifting light]

Agree, but at least mathias was around

[hollow escarp]

yeah, she is double agent

[limber lion]

Valeera is pretty big and so is Wrathion

[hollow escarp]

forgot about Wrathion lol

[glacial quarry]

sub got a bit of a theme revamp to make it more ninja to establish its niche

[hollow escarp]

but I still think Garona was the most infamous

for killing Stormwind's king

[drifting light]

Yup, badass although she was possesed

[hollow escarp]

ohh, there is the Defias girl

Vanessa

she was my companion

[drifting light]

Explanation is always corruption in this game, no free will

[hollow escarp]

ofc

[limber lion]

Or revenge

[hollow escarp]

almost like irl

[limber lion]

Some corrupted dude does something, then another dude seeks revenge

[tropic echo]

did my opener on sun kings with no poisons

nice

[glacial quarry]

noice

[hollow escarp]

it's fine

nobody cares about parses on that boss

[glacial quarry]

the first weakaura i got as sin was the poison one

[drifting light]

Which is kinda why im ok with sylvanas, if she indeed is bad just cause she is bad, but they gonna 100% redemption arc shit

[hollow escarp]

[glacial quarry]

i got a kind of dope one that i can click on to apply my poisons too

[tropic echo]

it's only LFR lmao

[hollow escarp]

you don't parse on LFR?

[tropic echo]

i usually right click and run out to grab a beer

[glacial quarry]

sylvanas had/has the potential to be a great villain but the redemption shit zzzzz

[stoic needle]

Bruh.....

[limber lion]

I slept so fucking bad last night and now I really want an energy drink but I don't have any at home and the weather outside is sooooooooooo awful

[hollow escarp]

just simmed that talent row now

[limber lion]

I know right, I was kinda hoping to see Zoldyck + Necro Exsang pop off 😢

[glacial quarry]

yikes

[hollow escarp]

forgot to swap to Nadjia though

[glacial quarry]

imagine that exsang + zoldyck execute phase combo if exsang was good

[limber lion]

A man can dream

[stoic needle]

That is just sad

[glacial quarry]

i love having an execute phase so much

[hollow escarp]

yep, wished it was better

[tropic echo]

i was tempted to get zold

[glacial quarry]

tfw weapons are my lowest ilevel pieces

[stoic needle]

Just loot a 226 from vault, ez

[hollow escarp]

same, offhand is only 220

[glacial quarry]

praying for it

[limber lion]

On 2 min execute with Zoldyck, CT actually sims better than PB. :^)

Maybe CT on Sire isn't troll after all

[glacial quarry]

CT BiS

[trail mica]

If only CT had a better effect/animation

[winter vapor]

So having discovered the ire this discord has with a certain youtube/twitch streamer. Could anyone confirm/Deny that general (not simmed) stat weighting for M+ is Crit>Vesr=Mas>haste or am i barking up the wrong tree?

[stoic needle]

https://tenor.com/view/dont-you-dare-dont-dont-do-it-the-office-michael-scott-gif-14178027

[stoic needle]

You should sim dungeon Slice for yourself and see what your stat weights are not trust anyone's recommendations blindly

[dawn ivy]

just get 34% in all stats

[stoic needle]

Generally it's crit = haste > vers=mastery for dungeons

[winter vapor]

@dawn ivy ah ofc, why didnt I think of that ^^

[limber lion]

It's really hard to say which stats are best for you in M+.

[winter vapor]

@stoic needle ty, my google fu is weak and im struggling to find dungeon slice, is it just an option within raidbots?

[limber lion]

Generally in AoE situations you do want a lot of crit, but even then haste is not bad.

And haste pulls ahead in ST situations (so every boss)

[hollow escarp]

so full crit build with Nadjia

[limber lion]

You can't just blindly build a full AOE build and then do 1k damage on ST.

[stoic needle]

Yeah it's one of the sim types in raidbots. So if you select stat weights you'd change patchwerk to dungeon slice

[winter vapor]

many thanks just found it, I was toying with that train of thought just recently @limber lion so thank you also ^^

[limber lion]

https://gyazo.com/619beeedd55ac4fe7ca0f5be4802c586
Here's my stat weights in Dungeon Slice.

[onyx wind]

boomers gtfo?

[limber lion]

But I am a Venthyr and I already have quite a bit of haste, that's why it's simming the worst for me

If you were playing a different covenant than Venthyr, Haste would probably be #1 or #2.

[hollow escarp]

haste is the highest secondary in stat weights if I am in m+ gear

but if I am in raid gear, crit is up there again

[winter vapor]

Yeah I went Necro, so that would make sense, im not long 60 so its showing weapon DPS as big atm (for obvious reasons)

[dawn ivy]

i mean weapon dps will forever be your top dps gain

[limber lion]

If you just hit level 60, you should NOT look at secondaries whatsoever

You ONLY look at ilvl.

[onyx wind]

Yea u pretty much dont look at stats

[limber lion]

Once you are comparing 2 items at 226 ilvl, then you can look at secondaries

[onyx wind]

But its nice to know what to build for

[limber lion]

Up to that point, doesn't really matter.

[onyx wind]

Like what stats are actually good to go for on rings

[dawn ivy]

yeah secondaries would only matter at like full 226 gear

[onyx wind]

Secondaries matter for rings

and neck

[winter vapor]

well I agree to an extent on Ilevel, I agree more with exeo

[hollow escarp]

but high ilvl jeweleries still weight more secondaries

than low ilvl ones

[winter vapor]

no agility on rings/neck so

[onyx wind]

Hmm not for me

220 ring with good stats is better than 226 with semi good stats

but might just be a special case

[winter vapor]

I'd rather have the right secondaries (within reason, not like 20+ ilevel difference)

[hollow escarp]

ofc

[limber lion]

Most of the time your stat weights are pretty close to one another

[tropic echo]

huh

dashing scoundrel...

[limber lion]

They're not like Haste is 8.7 and mastery is 1.2

[hollow escarp]

would still use 220 ring with bad stats over 200 ring

[onyx wind]

Sure, but theres obviously a point where stats > ilvl

[hollow escarp]

for sure

[onyx wind]

And depends a LOT on ur current stats

[tropic echo]

stg i saw someone say once a socket was worth around 15 ilvls

[onyx wind]

A 190 ring might be better than 233 depending on ur current stats

(not really)

Yea socket is huge

[hollow escarp]

I can see a 213 ring being better than a 226

but wouldn't even try going lower than that

[onyx wind]

Thats exactly where my PF ring was better than raid one

or not raid one, my old ring

nice guess

both socketed ofc

[sharp echo]

which dungeon is it

[onyx wind]

mists 18

[quaint phoenix]

I did the same dps in a 16 last week

Tyrannical tho

[gentle gyro]

thought the same, but a crit / haste ilvl 200 ring simmed higher for me than a 220 vers/mastery one

[twin bolt]

Yo guys, icy veins or wowhead guide if i want to get the priority right?

[hollow escarp]

just to make an idea, yes

but you should sim yourself

[lofty shell]

Ravenholdt guide!

!guide

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
RH: https://www.ravenholdt.net/guides/assassination-rogue-guide-shadowlands-raid-dps/
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide

[twin bolt]

thanks, gonna check out the ravenholdt guide. is doomblade on shoulders a bad thing? 😦

[slender berry]

wowhead

[lofty shell]

ppl take hands cause theres the shoulder from SLG and i believe hands and shoulders have equal stat distribution?

dont quote me on part 2 of that statement tho, i went shoulders ;p

[tropic echo]

yes

equal stats, bis shoulders > bis hands

[slender berry]

somehow doomblade shoulders and spire gloves sim 3 dps higher then 233 shoulders and doomblade gloves for me

[burnt star]

What talent build and leggo u went? Curious

[limber lion]

Zoldyck with EP, Subt, MFD, CT

[burnt star]

thx! still dont have zoldyck.. and m.a this week is ruff.. cant restealth

well u can but...

[shadow helm]

why pb do less than hateful chain bro

[placid dawn]

how do you open on m+? garrote x3 -> CT -> 1 Rupture -> pump envenom?

[burnt star]

mfd> snd from stealth

[slender berry]

i garotex3 -> rupture -> mfd -> CT

[limber lion]

You want to apply as many ruptures as you can to the targets that live the duration, as well as keeping your garrote on cooldown and CT applied to all targets at all times

If all of that is true, then you can pump Envenom's

But rarely on bigger packs you have much time to use Envenom's

[limber lion]

Yeah, I also do this. Carry combo points from previous pack to maintain SnD. If you don't have SnD rolling, don't worry about it especially on 5+ targets. You can put it up if you're in a 3T situation

[prisma monolith]

Assassination WA's:
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)

[rich dawn]

!wa

[onyx wind]

plaguefall is so dumb man

[hollow escarp]

40% of trash is just barrels and plaguebearers

[onyx wind]

more like

80% if u have rogue

u just sit there and cc for 10 minutes straight

everyone doing 5k overall and ur timing +20's

[hollow escarp]

Bogdan

[undone verge]

sin smart people, i hear everyone talk about mut > ambush. is that only when using blindside?

[hollow escarp]

always

we only use ambush from blindside procs

[undone verge]

ONLY when using blindside

not always

right?

[hollow escarp]

well, based on your question

we always use mutilate

that's why I said always

[undone verge]

i asked if mut is used over ambush only when using blindside

do you use mut over ambush with EP or MP?

[compact pumice]

Ambush is used over mutilate only when blindside procs

[thin inlet]

you never use ambush at any point unless it’s a blindside proc

so if it’s not talented it’s not used at all

[undone verge]

that doesn't make sense. you're saying in pvp to not use ambush

[hollow escarp]

?????

[thin inlet]

got a stroke?

[undone verge]

so ambush is never used unless you use blindside and get a proc

[hollow escarp]

well, you can press whatever you want

[compact pumice]

!mut

[prisma monolith]

Ambush is currently only used from blindside/sepsis proc, not from stealth.
The reasoning is a little complicated, but the most important of them is the difference in combo points on crit (up to 4 vs 3).
Some other factors to consider are increased poison applications, blindside, and doomblade. This is true for all talent combinations and legendaries.

[onyx wind]

always, because of alacrity

the increased chance of proccing alacrity with 4cp mut is better than 3cp ambush

even though ambush deals more dmg

[undone verge]

kk. thank you for the response. that makes more sense

[onyx wind]

So if u have 5x alacrity stacks in m+ for example

and not running blindside

u can ambush

[hollow escarp]

that's not the only advantage of mutilate though

[compact pumice]

Usually best used on garrotes though, in m+, also Doomblade factors in right?

[hollow escarp]

even with doomblade, if I play subt, I still open with garrotes

[compact pumice]

I meant that Doomblade factors in in using Ambush over Mutilate even with 5x Alacrity up

[frosty smelt]

should i still be aiming for 3x evisc in shiv if im using DS

it feels like i have to pool a lot and delay in order to do so

[strange python]

in a key do u keep CT up on a boss or prideful? or is it only used on multi tar

[stoic needle]

Yes you use it on 1t

[stoic needle]

I don't think this is correct

Just cuz you have alacrity stacked doesn't make the extra cp from mut less useful

[compact pumice]

I simmed that and the bot only used CT outside of Vendetta and Shiv (ofc), and only as least prio which meant it fell off multiple times

on 1t

but it did use it yeah

[strange python]

so if im in a key opening on a boss with all cds, id delay my CT till after vendetta?

[compact pumice]

I'm just saying what the bot did

[stoic needle]

Youd put CT up and then vendetta

[strange python]

ah okay but then not refresh it till after?

[stoic needle]

Yeah I guess so

That seems a little weird tho

[strange python]

yeah

[compact pumice]

It seemed to be really low prio

[stoic needle]

I get not doing it during shiv but not refreshing in vendetta seems weird

[compact pumice]

just do a quick sim on patchwerk and see what it does, I was quite surprised tbh

[manic crescent]

well placed steel conduit or lashing scars as venthyr ?

[compact pumice]

lashing scars

I don't find any path in the soulbind where double potency would be better than the alternative either (except for outlaw)

[manic crescent]

thx

went from middle of the pack to almost top dps with assa today feelsgood

[dense bramble]

actually its a lot more factors then alacrity, double crit and double poisoning i believe are the most important ones

[manic crescent]

first time playing it too

[stoic needle]

Double potency is very competitive with wasteland propriety for me in aoe sims

With poisoned katar

[compact pumice]

Oh yes I forgot to say ST

AoE then poisoned katar is great

[hollow escarp]

how do you go double potency with wasteland?

[compact pumice]

and sims high on Dungeon Slice

[stoic needle]

You don't, I'm saying they sim with similar numbers

[tropic echo]

i wonder if it would be op for venomous wounds to proc on CT

[hollow escarp]

ohh

[storm forum]

Absolutely OP

[stoic needle]

I'd be largely wasted energy in aoe but it would be fun for ST

I don't think you can call CT proccing VW op when combustion exists

[storm forum]

Combustion isn't real and can't hurt me

[tropic echo]

well it would let you start any aoe fight with infinite energy instead of having to garrote/rupture 5 dif things

master poisoner might be good then lmao you can MFD CT and just spam fan/envenom for the next 14 seconds

[storm forum]

CT is only ~1% worse on ST than PB for me and I'm already thinking about playing it so if they gave it VW proc too I'd be all over that shit

[tropic echo]

isn't CT a very substantial increase on ST over PB if you have zol's dick

[hollow escarp]

CT is a gcd

PB is a proc

[jovial sphinx]

So i dont run Double potency conduits in m+ ?

[polar cape]

The more you CT the less you envenom

[storm forum]

A GCD is more fun than a proc

[tropic echo]

you're not adding a GCD though

you're just replacing a different GCD

[burnt star]

btw, with subt/ and no M.A leggo. how do u use your vanish window

with m.a leggo or talent we use vanish in burst window for extra crit on mut

but without it. ?

lets say on a s.t target

[heavy skiff]

On st u just use it to extend the buffed garrote when its about to fall of

[tropic echo]

maybe use it for the garrote before you vendetta

if the fight has adds save vanish for that

[heavy skiff]

And later u line it up for second vendetta

[burnt star]

well most of the time i can time to have vendetta up at start of boss

[onyx wind]

Sure, but the damage balances out if those factors arent in play

[storm forum]

We refresh empowered garrote during vendetta, then later delay vendetta by 10 seconds or so to line them up

[onyx wind]

Which means ambush/mut are equal

[burnt star]

and boss already has max empowered garotte

[hollow escarp]

I really want to see a scenario where opening with ambush is better than applying 3 garrotes

[onyx wind]

wait what are u guys discussing

[tropic echo]

i want to see a scenario where ambush is better than mut :))))

[burnt star]

to make it simple: when NOT using any m.a (leggo/talent) and u are on a boss. and u have all your cd (with subt of course)

how do uopen on that said boss

and when do u vanish

[stoic needle]

Doing a little bit more damage with ambush isn't as valuable as having an extra cp for your next rupture or ct

Imo

[tropic echo]

isn't the sub opener garrote mut garrote snd mut rupt vendetta

[hollow escarp]

open with garrote, vanish to refresh garrote

[stoic needle]

We don't double garotte on opener anymore

[tropic echo]

ic

[pallid galleon]

I want to play my rogue only in m+ and I'm wondering which leggo to craft. I have a master assassin ring with crit versa right now and I might switch to doomblade. Are the pins up to date? can you recommend me something please?

[onyx wind]

Its neither better nor worse

its equal

on 2 minute fights

atleast, didnt sim anything else

[stoic needle]

I don't think so because rupture and ct have better DPE than ambush and being able to refresh them later has rotational benefits

[storm forum]

MA and Zoldyck's are best for M+, I personally prefer zoldyck's for flavor reasons

[onyx wind]

can also use vanish garrote for iron wire value

on fox for example

[hollow escarp]

true

[onyx wind]

usually i save vanish for execute range tho

[hollow escarp]

I usually keep vanish for bosses with ads

[onyx wind]

since im running zoldyck

[hollow escarp]

like Echelon, Gorechop

[burnt star]

how u use that vanish window?

[storm forum]

Also I believe Sims are uptodate

[burnt star]

2 garrote?