assassination

[shy dust]

its still a strong spec that can deal with downtime well

and its like a 3 min encounter that would favor a spec like sin

[strange python]

Well thank you whispyr

[balmy condor]

you press exsang, it looks at your haste, and then reapplies dots with a tick rate that's twice as fast as the current haste levels of tick rate

[strange python]

Cool man cheers

Appreciate the reply

[balmy condor]

<3

[stoic needle]

Whispyr, if exsang also set the dots to their maximum duration and made them tick 2x as fast do you think it'd be viable?

[strange python]

Would be a nice interaction to play with when looking at our main bleeds

[balmy condor]

nah

[subtle tundra]

because the only reason assa is as unpopular as it is rn is cause it was severely undertuned for the entirety of 9.0
its damage is comparable to outlaw in 905
all of the potential assa players started playing outlaw when they saw it's dogshit dmg and why swap now

[balmy condor]

setting dots to maximum duration and making them tick 2x as fast is how we play exsang currently

[stoic needle]

That's true, the dots ticking while you get knocked all over the place and run for your life is nice

[soft shale]

exsang was cool when ti was 400%

remember those 2 days

[slim siren]

is the ??? trinket worth upgrading or wait for a new one

[shy dust]

but like anyways

[soft shale]

it is decent but phial is better for most content

[shy dust]

a blanket statement of higher key means more execute uptime

means zoldyck is better

just ignores combat time as a %

[stoic needle]

But imagine if you could extend a subterfuge garotte with vanish and then exsang

[strange python]

You mean it would refresh them then do the 2x?

[stoic needle]

Yeah

[soft shale]

remember to get pi and also use frond for those sweet haste ticks

now you can even get bannered

pog

[rustic whale]

good luck with pugging 15+ keys with sin spec. Thought, i like assasin more than anything let you know. I wanna go to all in as Assasin too. But we can't deny the fact Outlaw is outperforming in M+

[stoic needle]

I got Ksm as sin

[rustic whale]

same

[stoic needle]

It's more than viable for 15s and 16s lol people dgaf that I wasn't outlaw

[ruby birch]

is choosing between vigor and deeper strat a preference thing?

[stoic needle]

It's a covenant/gear thing

[rustic whale]

i dont know bro i kicked in a group because i was not outlaw 😄

[subtle tundra]

noone said assa is better than outlaw, you said "dont push yourself in M+ as assasin spec" so i wanted to argue about that.

[balmy condor]

vigor is usually fine as long as you're not getting PI's as well

it's not a giga gain

but it is better

[soft shale]

venth gets more of deeper but not a huge gain for most people

[ruby birch]

ah so vigor if i dont get PI

[soft shale]

like for me its less than 100 dps

[balmy condor]

if you'd like

[ruby birch]

i see

[balmy condor]

deeper is always going to be a gain

[shy dust]

i doubt deeper is a large gain for anyone

[ruby birch]

i guess ill test it out

[balmy condor]

but you're not losing much playing vigor

[shy dust]

its 70 dps for me

[subtle tundra]

what does that have to do with viability of spec? thats community perception stuff.

[onyx wind]

EP/vigor is better for short fights aswell

[soft shale]

you also overcap less as deeper if you have high crit

[onyx wind]

<2 min

[soft shale]

but that would be kind of meaningless in the grand scheme i guess

[rustic whale]

yeah i did not offend i took another group

[subtle tundra]

if it weren't spiteful i'd be pushing as assa right now

[rustic whale]

you still can if you have boomie+mage 😄

[subtle tundra]

what does that have to do with spiteful?

and being in combat

bro

you're making my brain hurt

[stoic needle]

Delete spiteful, storming and tyrannical

[rustic whale]

storming and spiteful is annoying

[onyx wind]

storming isnt that bad for me idk

bursting is worse

[subtle tundra]

idc about how annoying it is

i have grievous

[rustic whale]

depends on pull size

[manic igloo]

would rather chew on glass than play outlaw in m+ hate roll the bones with a passion

[subtle tundra]

pridefuls are so hard because of grievous

[onyx wind]

its kinda fun dodging tornadoes

[rustic whale]

blizz needs to adress grevious preventing stealth

i mean drops

[subtle tundra]

roll the bones matters so little nowadays

you have plenty of buffs with count the odds

[onyx wind]

tried playing outlaw

feels like fury warrior

where every action u do means so little

but u just do many of them

[subtle tundra]

lowkey count the odds is the ONLY reason i can stand playing outlaw

[onyx wind]

maybe ill try with count the odds

[stoic needle]

Cto is goated

Now that the bug is fixed especially

[subtle tundra]

the spec feels dogshit without CTO

[shy dust]

outlaw always feels dogshit

nothing can save it

[rustic whale]

guys love to chit-chat with you i m off

take care

[icy crater]

outlaw is great

[manic igloo]

what bug did cto have?

[subtle tundra]

when you lost RTB buffs you'd lose CTO buffs aswell

now its even buggier but its in a good way

i sometimes reroll my buffs and keep my previous ones lol

[manic igloo]

if my group forced me into outlaw...i guess the adrenaline rush leggo is the one?

[subtle tundra]

yes and no

[manic igloo]

assa just seems much more fun imo

[subtle tundra]

there are like 4 viable ones

[icy crater]

for raid or m+

[subtle tundra]

celerity is best for both

[manic igloo]

m+ mostly

[subtle tundra]

MA best for m+

[manic igloo]

i find raiding boring

[icy crater]

what cov are you

[subtle tundra]

but MA is bad this week

cause spiteful

wait this is assa channel

[manic igloo]

atm NF but might go venthyr/necro unsure atm

ye it is 😛 was a segway

[icy crater]

celerity is good with korayn first strike

[strange python]

!ambush

[prisma monolith]

Macroing Ambush to Mutilate only works with the use of a addon.
It comes with the downside that it often requires multiple key presss.
Suggested addon to use(Gnome Sequencer):http://tiny.cc/mxb6tz
Showcase Video: #assassination message

[strange python]

!mut

[prisma monolith]

Ambush is currently only used from blindside/sepsis proc, not from stealth.
The reasoning is a little complicated, but the most important of them is the difference in combo points on crit (up to 4 vs 3).
Some other factors to consider are increased poison applications, blindside, and doomblade. This is true for all talent combinations and legendaries.

[elfin grail]

how is assassination in m+

do you not get invited cuz you're not outlaw

[indigo mulch]

oO

I dunno, i don't really have an issue, but i play both.

[marsh yew]

I don't think that !mut command is actually correct, you aren't supposed to use it from a sepsis proc I thought because it still takes energy.

[stoic needle]

It's slightly inconclusive

Ideally you don't, but it's not a huge loss if you do

For Koji it sims as a gain, for whispyr it sims as a loss

[marsh yew]

oh

that's kinda weird

[stoic needle]

It is kinda weird

Just do whatever makes you feel best

But imagine still being night fae

[marsh yew]

u dont gotta do me like that 😦

[dire spoke]

that's how I play any spec rotation

[stoic needle]

[flint summit]

how do I cope with losing soulshape turtle form

door of shadows is poo

[indigo mulch]

I'm curious. Do we use shiv even if we overcap CP?

[marsh yew]

in all honestly I'm too lazy to switch to venthyr and also sepsis into shiv makes me feel good in pvp 🙂

[indigo mulch]

or do we delay Shiv to get the CP gain from it (if we land on 6cp) when shiv comes of cd.

[stoic needle]

Yes

[heavy skiff]

U use shuv on cd

[signal gulch]

press button if its up

[stoic needle]

Max cp evenom in shiv > the damage 1 cp would have done if you didn't waste it

[indigo mulch]

Fair enough

Just slap it on CD

got it

[marsh yew]

but what about

TWO combo point

[gloomy knoll]

@balmy condor will you look at my log now

[marsh yew]

🙂

[balmy condor]

sure

[gloomy knoll]

yay

the 1st one got fucked up so it's the 2nd fight

ignore my trinket use xd

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/ZqwJtmkfXncx8DTy/#fight=2&type=casts&view=timeline&by=ability

anything i can improve on or stuff i'm doing wrong

[dense bramble]

i really would like to have gold to make one max ranked

[indigo mulch]

we should all be brave enough to @ fuu to ask him to look at our logs, I heard thats a popular thing to do.

😮

[gloomy knoll]

oh i bugged him a lot when i was learning sub

fuu is very helpful

[stoic needle]

the best thing to do is @ him in the middle of the night

or like

6am

[indigo mulch]

Super popular.

Honestly wish i could do 5.1k on ST 😦

I can't make it over 4.8k atm 😦

[elfin grail]

what cov did you pick for asa?

[gloomy knoll]

this no lust no execute

i'm just practicing the rotation on dummies

honestly 5.1 seems low for my gear

[frosty burrow]

Pretty sure you @ him and if he doesn’t respond in a minute you can @ him again until he does

[gloomy knoll]

but i don't know how much blindside starts doing in execute since i've never tried it yet

[indigo mulch]

[stoic needle]

It adds about 100-200 dps during that phase? Idk

[marsh yew]

I was so sad I was doing HC Shriekwing and after first intermission phase I was doing around 4.3-4.4k dps and was hella hyped because that's actually not a green parse xd and the boss got the second intermission at about 2-3% hp and ruined my parse. It was a sad night 😦 granted I'm only il 210 so 4.3-4.4k dps on shriek was actually kinda exciting.

ended up with around 3.7k dps

[indigo mulch]

Pretty good D;

[balmy condor]

so overall this looks really solid, the marked parts could've been pooled better, missed a little bit of envenom uptime on that

and you also do that shiv thing

with the vendetta

hit the shiv/vend first

then the envenom

[gloomy knoll]

what you mean shiv / vend then env?

[balmy condor]

there's a fight type defaulted into raidbots called "target dummy", which turns off all raid buffs, and keeps the mob at 99% health btw, which you can use to compare

[balmy condor]

ye

[gloomy knoll]

oh interesting

but how do you vanish with that

i thought you wanted to vanish mut env mut

[balmy condor]

well kinda

[heavy skiff]

If im in the situation that im at 3cp and shiv is gonna be off cd soon is it better to overcap some energy while pooling or to mut and overcap on cp?

[balmy condor]

you still have to mut to hit 5+

[gloomy knoll]

yea

[balmy condor]

so if you vanish mut and land at like 3 cp, you mut then env

[frosty smelt]

would macroing vanish vendetta flag together cause any issue with MA talent

[balmy condor]

instead of slamming a 3cp env

[gloomy knoll]

oh true

i think mine was 5 cp do you wanna make sure it's 6 cp then?

by doing htat

[balmy condor]

in that log you had a 5

[subtle tundra]

dont do that you'll have many situations where you'll want to use them at different timers

[balmy condor]

but that was because of the shiv after the env

[gloomy knoll]

yee

[balmy condor]

so if you were to shiv env

you wouldn't have the shiv cp

to then use on the env during MA

[subtle tundra]

also vanish and vendetta at the same time is really bad

[balmy condor]

?

why would that matter

[indigo mulch]

?

[frosty smelt]

why is that?

[subtle tundra]

well what if you dont have shiv up when you use vendetta

[indigo mulch]

master assassins during vendetta seams pretty good to me atleast.

[balmy condor]

you hold shiv for vendetta

but also he had shiv

[indigo mulch]

o0

[balmy condor]

so what's the problem

[gloomy knoll]

i'm kind of confused

[frosty smelt]

i'm thinking purely about M sludge timings here

[gloomy knoll]

so what should i have done optimally?

[balmy condor]

dude same

[gloomy knoll]

xD

[frosty smelt]

i feel like id always vendetta vanish together

[gloomy knoll]

for the first vendetta i did

[subtle tundra]

we have different conversations whispyr

[balmy condor]

I mean

not really

you're answering the guy

who said macroing vanish and vend together

[indigo mulch]

I'm looking at my own logs now when whispyr was checking his, my eyes are bleeding now ;c

[balmy condor]

so this is the full sequence yeh?

only change to be had

[gloomy knoll]

yessir

[balmy condor]

swap the shiv with the envenom, then vanish into generate 5cp envenom

[subtle tundra]

he said flagellation aswell so he is basically vanishing flagellation

[balmy condor]

yeah what's wrong with that

it's like, very slightly worse

[gloomy knoll]

so i would shiv to 6 / vend vanish > env > mut > sbs > env probably?

[balmy condor]

but it's not giga bad

[balmy condor]

you would shiv even through overcap, vend env vanish mut mut env most likely

[gloomy knoll]

oh interesting

[balmy condor]

in rotation you basically just pretend shiv doesn't grant cp

[gloomy knoll]

and that's more about getting like guaranteed 3 envenoms in that shiv / vend window

oh really o.O

interesting

[balmy condor]

it's a cooldown to use like vendetta

so realistically, you don't play around it giving cp

[gloomy knoll]

gotcha, gonna have to beat that into my brain lol

[balmy condor]

reasoning here being that lashing actually hits pretty hard

if he truly wants to macro things together like that, the bigger troll is that I assume we're then casting everything every 2 minutes

and ignoring flag being a 1:30

which is the actual troll thing to do

but just vanish into flag seems to be okay from what I've seen

[gloomy knoll]

is this the 230ish sequence you were talking about env uptime

[frosty smelt]

sry disregard flag - i'm thinking in terms of m sludge timing so flag on pull, 2nd, 4th

but for 1st and 3rd, vanish vendetta together still bad?

[balmy condor]

that is in fact not it, 130 = 1:10

wait

im dumb

no

disregard

[gloomy knoll]

xD

[balmy condor]

too many numbers in my head

1:10 is sludge pillars

[gloomy knoll]

looooool

trying to figure out how i should've pooled better

[balmy condor]

yeah that's fine then, in that specific situation

[indigo mulch]

I just put up everything just before he slams D:

[gloomy knoll]

are you saying i should be chaining envenoms in the envenom windows?

[frosty smelt]

im just trying to minimise button presses on pillars lol

[gloomy knoll]

i thought that wasn;t a thing anymore

[balmy condor]

I think it's these

I didn't look too closely, but I'm fairly sure that clipped uptime

[indigo mulch]

You should try to maintain envenom as long as you can if i understood it correctly.

Don't take my word from it, i'm le nub

[gloomy knoll]

oh gotcha

yea that makes sense

i should keep better track of that

[balmy condor]

as a general rule, you sit on envenom until like 90ish energy

unless you're in shiv

then you slam obviously

[gloomy knoll]

sounds good to me

ty whispyr xd

[balmy condor]

no problemi

[indigo mulch]

When are we going to to witness some more SoA struggles whispyr?

I enjoyed you slowly dying inside last time.

[balmy condor]

well we were going to do it today

but then apparently not

[indigo mulch]

Rip

[balmy condor]

so sunday looking like the move

[heavy skiff]

Is the last boss of soa still bugged?

[indigo mulch]

Bugged? D:

[heavy skiff]

The bug where.u can ger the orbs early

[subtle lodge]

Hey guys, just coming back from the game. How far is assa compared to outlaw in keys?

[balmy condor]

I think they fixed that

[heavy skiff]

And skip the i intermission

Ah sad

[indigo mulch]

@subtle lodge I'd say they are pretty far behind 😄

[balmy condor]

its a little worse, but not awful tbh

you can do 20's with sin np

[indigo mulch]

yush

[balmy condor]

you probably won't see any sin in world first keys or mdi or whatever

[indigo mulch]

I wouldnt go much higher with sin though, interupting and shit gets to important at that point.

[balmy condor]

but I wouldn't say it's troll

[compact pumice]

Ngl, interrupting pretty important at 18-19 too

[subtle lodge]

What exactly does it lack atm?

[indigo mulch]

A bit of damage and gauge. 😄

[compact pumice]

gouge and "extra" CP's for kidney whenever too

[subtle lodge]

I see, well that helps alot. Thanks guys!

[indigo mulch]

I mean

its viable

[strange python]

Big Burst aoe

[gloomy knoll]

gonna tell my raid i got the whispyr seal of approval

so if i int sales on sunday its not my fault

[indigo mulch]

Noone really cares about aoe burst since mages just blows everything up anyway. 😮

I'm sure if you optimize gear and shit you can easily sit at 7k overall in a high key.

[balmy condor]

uh oh

[hot stag]

How about in raids? Pog or pepega?

[gloomy knoll]

ok i definitely notice the holding env thing now after another round of dummies

[indigo mulch]

I'd say the only fight where i wouldnt want a sin rogue is prob mythic SLG.

[gloomy knoll]

think i can get that down

[indigo mulch]

Outlaw just seams so much better there. I mean on pretty much all the other fights you could easily play sin 😮

[gloomy knoll]

yea slg is probably the biggest outlaw fight

[indigo mulch]

I've seen some crazy people playing sin there but it just seams easier to play outlaw there

[strange python]

Little off topic I apologize but I recently did 9/9 story chapters for ventyr but didn’t get the gloves from the set is there something else I’m suppose to do?

[indigo mulch]

Quest

[strange python]

Which one? I thought you get all of the set from the main story line no?

[indigo mulch]

If you hover over the piece

it says Quest

I don't know what quest though, i'm sure you can find it on wowhead

[strange python]

Oh yea yes I know haha but I wish it would tell me which

Okay will try thanks

[indigo mulch]

Do i want to make sure that all dots are up during shiv window even if i have to overwrite em?

So i don't have to use garrote/rupture during shiv window

[solar hare]

Does sbs count toward the doomblade bleed envenom buff

@balmy condor

[indigo mulch]

[balmy condor]

yes

[solar hare]

Thanks whispy

[balmy condor]

np

[weak horizon]

Can anyone take a look at my dungeon log and tell me why i'm so fucking shitty? https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/JYz3TbK1m4qpg8Vk/#fight=last

it feels like my damage is always really lackluster

except on ST

[marsh yew]

you cast crimson tempest more than rupture, that seems a little sus to me

[indigo mulch]

😮

[weak horizon]

i definitely use CT a lot when running from shades because there's nothing else I can do so that mgiht be part of it

[marsh yew]

afaik you want to keep up 3-4 ruptures on aoe packs and garrote on cd then only use crimson tempest to keep it up and spam FoK and envenoms.

generally I open with 3-4 garrotes into a rupture then I do MfD into Crimson tempest then I usually have to garrote at that point and do more FoK into some ruptures.

[stoic needle]

yes

[stoic needle]

you have to buy them from the vendor in the covenant hall

you want roughly 5-6 bleeds up at any given time for m+, any combo of garottes and ruptures

they dont have to be 5cp ruptures either

[marsh yew]

^^^

not counting CT

[stoic needle]

putting up 2-3cp ruptures just to get everything dotted is fine

[marsh yew]

because CT doesn't give you energy

[solar hare]

I haven't played sin in years and have a few general questions tbh, is there ever a point where you would finish at max -1 like in outlaw/subs case and also when is pooling energy an actual thing if it all 🙂

[compact pumice]

Since muti gives 2 CP you send at 4-5 or 5-6 with DS

[solar hare]

yeah thats what i thought

[marsh yew]

you want to basically pool energy at all times just only use envenom if your at roughly 85-90+ energy and use all of your energy during shiv windows to get more envenoms out than you otherwise could.

[stoic needle]

tbh 3.5k overall on WCL is more like 4.3k+ in details which isn't that bad for a +12

especially with zoldyck

but you are definitely FOKing too much

are you FOKing on 3 instead of 4?

here's a PF15 i did for comparison https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/QgDyGavX2FmMYkAL#fight=10&type=damage-done&source=5

[weak horizon]

yeah, im FOKing on 3

[stoic needle]

yeah you dont fok on 3

mut on 3, fok on 4+

[solar hare]

yeah im kind of a zug outlaw player rn so im instinctivly just spamming at 0 energy and it feels really wrong

[weak horizon]

ahh

kk

[lost mist]

wtf? 22k flagellation on niklaus???

[marsh yew]

respect, I was playing outlaw for sunking and I was hella zugging but was pretty fun XD

[stoic needle]

@weak horizon you also aren't vanishing enough

[glacial quarry]

ty for tht, i've been foking in 3 targets for a while now

[stoic needle]

vanish on CD, dont hold it

play sin like its outlaw, if your CDs are up just use them

[weak horizon]

kk

[stoic needle]

same with vendetta obvi

[marsh yew]

idk personally I tend to try to save vendetta for prideful mob but that might just be me :/

[dense axle]

!bis

[glacial quarry]

i just pop it on anything that'll survive its full duration, tbh

[strange python]

whats the best way to use vanish in a key? for garrote spread?

[brittle pawn]

saving vendetta big dumb

unless youre like, 1 kill away from pride

[marsh yew]

that's what I was thinking of^

[glacial quarry]

ye, vanish is garrote spread in dungeons due to subterfuge

[stoic needle]

the thing about zold especially is that if you vanish and vendetta on CD even if you dont have it up for the beginning of a boss or pride it will come up during the execute phase

which is the ideal scenario

[glacial quarry]

i've noticed that ye

getting vendetta late is better than getting it early, which encourages me to use it more freely

[stoic needle]

yea just toss vendetta on the most dangerous thing of every pack and kinda forget it exists lul

[glacial quarry]

makes sense

is there a target number where applying shiv would make you mut instead of FOK?

aka, would you mut on 4 if you shiv or is it still FOK?

[stoic needle]

@weak horizon one last thing, you ran poisoned katar, which isnt really the worst thing but definitely not recommended on a dungeon like PF where the pulls are small and you rarely fok. I'd only run PK in dungeons with consistent 5+ targetrs per pull like mists, DOS, etc

[stoic needle]

no you still fok on 4 after shiv because fok applies instant poison just like mut does

[glacial quarry]

i guess, wondered if mut would take over a bit since it double hits

[manic igloo]

ive come to the conclusion.....im just bad at rogue and need more practice lol

like real smooth brain

[stoic needle]

practice makes perfect tbh

we were all trash at first

[glacial quarry]

ass aoe is kind of a nice challenge to keep track of

[stoic needle]

I'm only barely not trash

[manic igloo]

like is necro ok for assa? incase i want to switch between it and outlaw lol

[stoic needle]

yeah necro is fine for sin, SBS is a better builder than both mutilate and FOK

[glacial quarry]

i don't garrote nearly enough, i get caught up with all the other bleeds i have to keep up and forget about the most important one

[stoic needle]

which is nice bc cp generation is one of sin's weaknesses in AOE

[stoic needle]

the only way I could solve this was to make my garotte duration weakaura have the CD of garotte on it and just make myself keep it always on CD

[glacial quarry]

yeah, i use luxthos's weakaura which is nice, but i might add something to it

[subtle tundra]

just timed my first 20 as assa
2k inc

[glacial quarry]

if i'm on a target with a lot of garrote time left and my garrote is off cd, i tend to miss it

[manic igloo]

with sbs in aoe/st do i pretty much use it on cd and different targets obv avoiding capping combo points?

[wide ridge]

loots from our last +15 of the day

WICKED

[stoic needle]

huge

[weak horizon]

woooooooooow

im at like fucking 26 pfs without a phial

@stoic needle So I double checked infexious' video on m+ rotation and he suggests FOK on 3 targets as well https://youtu.be/44hmZbevnrw?t=532

[limpid blaze]

oh no no no

[stoic needle]

@frigid briar bro stop

[weak horizon]

ah, so you guys are pretty sure he's wrrong?

[stoic needle]

he's 100% incorrect

[weak horizon]

fuck, not my boi infexious. i'll have to talk to him about it next time i catch his stream

[stoic needle]

oh you have a lot of things to talk to him about

his stat priority is wrong

[limpid blaze]

what's the reason for fok on 4 and not 3 btw? just not reliable without enough crit?

[stoic needle]

his opener is wrong too

[stoic needle]

yep

[limpid blaze]

is there a % it becomes 3 ?

[stoic needle]

you don't CT after 3 garottes. you either fok to 5 and then CT or rupture at 3 and then build to 5 and then CT

I'm not sure I'd have to check but i doubt it

maybe like 50% crit or something

[weak horizon]

at 50% crit each FOK has an expected value of 2.5 cp on 3 targets

[limpid blaze]

i usually garrote 4x and then CT

maybe throw a fok in there to get poisons going for venomous

[stoic needle]

his soulbind recommendations are wrong/lacking nuance as well

this video is like pure misinformation

[weak horizon]

FML

[stoic needle]

i'm malding so hard

[solar hare]

[stoic needle]

he

literally

puts

HIS OWN STAT WEIGHTS

AS THE RECOMMENDATION FOR THE VIDEO

[nocturne hawk]

[stoic needle]

[solar hare]

Haste bad

📉

[limpid blaze]

no haste

[slow marsh]

imagine prioritizing mastery as 2nd stat

[void pecan]

Who this? Infectious or whatever??

Yep. Lmao

Is he still in here?

Last time we called him out and mods got mad.

[weak horizon]

he's a hella good rogue in raid

[drowsy pond]

i should be pooling right before casting shiv no?

if so what amount of energy should i pool to

[proven talon]

haste bad in m+?????????????????????

am i reading that correctly

[gusty kestrel]

in what raid

[stoic needle]

in lfr maybe

[urban thistle]

Is that a failed streamer trying to save his streaming career with guide writing I see criticizing the sin god?

[gusty kestrel]

atleast I have a guild

[urban thistle]

D:

[gusty kestrel]

[urban thistle]

can i join ur guild, then?

[weak horizon]

im so confused

[icy crater]

🍿

[gusty kestrel]

ofc

[weak horizon]

okay, so were you saying that he's a sin god sarcastically?

and you're saying tisumi is the failed streamer who writes guides now?

and does everybody hate infexious around here? is he actually a bad rogue? I thought he was really good

[slow marsh]

infexious is booty cheeks and spreads misinformation and then randomly comes in here and acts like he knows what he's talking about

[gusty kestrel]

believing what infexious says is like believing in a flat earth

[balmy condor]

his videos often have misinformation, so we don't really use his content for education

[weak horizon]

okay, well my entire life is a fucking lie now lol

[slow marsh]

such as recommending to stack crit/mastery

[weak horizon]

fuckkkkkkk

[balmy condor]

have you heard the story of 34% my good sir

[urban thistle]

k brb taking this screenshot to luml

[weak horizon]

no i have not, please tell me of this

[stoic needle]

if you think he's a good rogue go look at his sin logs on wcl

they arent pretty

[balmy condor]

aight well zoomer papi whispyr gonna vape up a cloud of a story from the far history of 8.3

[weak horizon]

also, are there any rogues that make good guides/educational content?

[gusty kestrel]

absolutely not

especially not me

[nocturne hawk]

story time!

[slow marsh]

literally just live on this channel

[balmy condor]

imagine the lush hills of nyalotha

[urban thistle]

Infectious once criticized tisumi for being a failed streamer resorting to guide writing, which is pretty hilarious in my opinion

[slow marsh]

and you will git gud

[balmy condor]

you don't know left from right

so you go to youtube, looking for guidance

[weak horizon]

ty for explanation

[balmy condor]

and stumble upon a video from infexious, a guide, if you may

[weak horizon]

yeah, 8.3 is when i started playing and followed his exsanguinate guide lol

[balmy condor]

perfect

in said guide

when he went over stats

he noted that after 34% crit, you go full into mastery

no idea how he got that idea

or why that was a thing

[gusty kestrel]

roll 1-100?

[weak horizon]

lol i do remember him saying that number for crit lol

[balmy condor]

but there was literally 0 evidence that this imaginary breakpoint existed

and yet

this channel

was flooded for months

with people showing up asking about crit breakpoints

[weak horizon]

LOL

[nocturne hawk]

Wait... is that why we don't garotte now?!

omg

[balmy condor]

eventually, the meme's of "lmao 34% crit, no one would possibly believe that"

turned into sarcastic fantasies of "if you have 34% crit, mut guarantees 3cp every cast"

and the community just kept churning the butter of nonsense

so the tldr is

[gusty kestrel]

ignore infexious

[balmy condor]

youtuber man says some nonsense -> community gets really confused -> people who know better make jokes about how stupid the nonsense is -> the nonsense is now even more confusing for people who don't know -> more talk about the nonsense

[weak horizon]

yeah, that's basically the cycle i got caught up in lol

[slow marsh]

I mean he has doomblade on shoulders

that really says it all imo

[balmy condor]

I mean

would be fine

but uh

[urban thistle]

if you never kill SLG it's fine

[balmy condor]

yeh

[weak horizon]

so where do i find your keys @gusty kestrel ?

guides*

[gusty kestrel]

u dont

[slow marsh]

he is 10/10 mythic and has doomblade on shoulders ****

[weak horizon]

fuck

[balmy condor]

did method take them down?

[urban thistle]

lol

[gusty kestrel]

I made a guide for method early this tier

but its sub only

[slow marsh]

but i guess he only cleared it once so whatevs

[weak horizon]

ahhh, sub... the gigafucked rogue spec

[gusty kestrel]

so since were in assa rn that guide wont help you a lot

however my dear friend @marble hemlock has his guide on icy veins :)

[weak horizon]

i was so fucking hype learning sub this expansion because it was supposed to be nuts and now look at it 😦

[gusty kestrel]

which I can only recommend

[void pecan]

Seli is the real rogue hero

[balmy condor]

he plays outlaw though

dad left us

[void pecan]

Truuuuuue

At least he knows what he's talking about

Lmao

[balmy condor]

big fax no printer

[gusty kestrel]

wasnt there even a command for the iv guide whispyr

[balmy condor]

!guide

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
RH: https://www.ravenholdt.net/guides/assassination-rogue-guide-shadowlands-raid-dps/
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide

[urban thistle]

In my opinion the best way to learn a spec in a really detailed way is to talk to people about it, anyway, bring logs for people to look over

[balmy condor]

its in there

[gusty kestrel]

oh right

[urban thistle]

guide reading is fairly basic

[void pecan]

Oh shit. We summoned him

[weak horizon]

Alright guys, please rip the asshole out of my logs and teach me what I'm doing wrong: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/JYz3TbK1m4qpg8Vk

[slow marsh]

I think cev is our sin daddy at the moment

[weak horizon]

Specifically the inerva pulls; I've already gotten some feedback on the m+, but feel free to tear the m+ up too if you'd like

I just want to stop being shit. I feel like I'm decent at the single target rotation, but I feel amazingly sub-par m+ wise.

[balmy condor]

you're holding shiv way too much

[weak horizon]

I guess step 1 is leaving the infexious cult

[balmy condor]

single target I guess

aoe I didn't look

[weak horizon]

ah, yeah i remember talking to a few guys in here about that last night. I believe your recommendation was to think of it as a debuff you use on CD as opposed to a burst window.

[balmy condor]

yeh

[weak horizon]

the idea being pooling for the 3 envenom shiv is worse than just slamming it on cd and getting 2 envenoms, right?

[slow marsh]

just a rough look it looks like probably way more ruptures

[urban thistle]

do you have any experience reading APLs?

[weak horizon]

I do not, but I could take a shot at it. Where can I find APLs for sin?

[balmy condor]

correct. I'm looking at pull 19 atm, and you got 7 shivs in 4 minutes, when that number should be like 10.5

[urban thistle]

just run a quick sim

and opent he detailed report

or go to github

[brittle pawn]

there needs to be an !infexious command

[balmy condor]

this full html button

[gusty kestrel]

negative

[balmy condor]

then open the profile

[gusty kestrel]

haha noob below 7k sim

[balmy condor]

scroll down till you see this part that says action priority list

will look like this

that's the conditions the sim uses to cast abilities

this for example being the shiv line

[stoic needle]

If you read the apl you'll see it directly contradicts what infexious says at some points

Which is why we mald so hard at his videos

[balmy condor]

so the way to read it is cast shiv, if: rupture is ticking, and either (sepsis is on cooldown, or the cooldown of vendetta has more than 12 seconds left), or if sepsis is currently ticking, slam it

[weak horizon]

makes sense, why doesn't it care about garotte ticking?

[brittle pawn]

you can cast it during shiv

[balmy condor]

garrote is a generator, so usually that doesn't matter too much

[weak horizon]

ahh ofc

[balmy condor]

to be clear, the sim isn't some omnipotent being that knows what the ideal way to play is

these lines are all hand-made by people testing things constantly and improving on the current APL

this stuff for example is calculations about how long the fight will last, in order to sync vendetta and sepsis/flag efficiently

koji put that in a couple weeks ago

this trash was put in during bfa

and I hate it

[stoic needle]

There's a very large chance that infexious isn't writing his own custom apl that has gains over this one and just isn't sharing

[balmy condor]

you'll notice that the "stealthed" list doesn't have ambush

[stoic needle]

CT on ST forever

[balmy condor]

which is why we don't ambush from stealth

that's my doing

you're welcome

or I guess sorry

if you really wanted to ambush

[weak horizon]

go outlaw and take cto

[subtle tundra]

but ambush cool spell 😦

[balmy condor]

true

[weak horizon]

i can't believe i'm so dumb. doing the math the average # of cp on 3 targets is mathematically always better for mutilate vs. FOK

i shoulda just done the math instead of blindly following a YT video

[subtle tundra]

that could be the reason people say to use it 🙂

[balmy condor]

I mean to be fair, there's more to look at than just average cp

[subtle tundra]

if i play poisoned katar conduit do i fok on 3t?

[balmy condor]

we could do a dissertation about fok vs mutilate, expected cp and poison applications, doomblade, poisoned katar, energy costs compared to the expected dps you get from that energy cost

[weak horizon]

i guess there's poison spread + increased FOK damage

[balmy condor]

but uh

that's gonna take a while

[weak horizon]

lol

[balmy condor]

the mut vs ambush stuff really gets people

cause ambush does twice the damage a mut does

and yet it's worse

[undone verge]

This is how I feel about sin aoe

[topaz aspen]

Genuine question since im learning how to play assas and never played it before, if your vend is at around 40-1m cd is it worth not using flag to sync it ?

or nah

Is it only not worth syncing if vendetta is at a >=1m30s?

[subtle tundra]

its about kill timer

[topaz aspen]

Ah.

[balmy condor]

if you're gonna miss a cast, you don't sync

[topaz aspen]

right okay

makes sense

[balmy condor]

so like 6:20 kill time or something

[topaz aspen]

i was reading it and was kinda confused at first

yea

and if flag is up at like 5:20

then ud use it if vendetta is on 1m cd

obv

[balmy condor]

you get 4 vends, 0, 2:00, 4:00, 6:00, and you can either get 4 flags by syncing, or 0, 1:30, 3, 4:30, 6, now you get an extra one

you can use that to figure out if you're getting an extra cast at any time

[topaz aspen]

ooo

i see

[balmy condor]

2:45 kill time, you're getting 2

because it's before that 3 min mark

so you should sync on that

[weak horizon]

although the 30% damage buff means that syncing 4 with vendetta is like casting 4*1.3=5.2 in terms of just straight flag damage

[topaz aspen]

aight makes sense

[balmy condor]

3:30 though you shouldn't, because you're not getting a third vendetta, but you are getting a third flag

so on and so forth

[weak horizon]

but i imagine the haste buff given by the extra one outweighs that

[balmy condor]

the damage as well

[topaz aspen]

thanks whispyr 😄 was hoping u were gonna reply lmfao

[balmy condor]

I mean, feel free to ping me if you're hoping I reply

that just means you want to ask me, in which case, pings are good

:P

[topaz aspen]

xd true

[drowsy pond]

should i be pooling right before using shiv

[urban thistle]

@balmy condor pls reply

[balmy condor]

[balmy condor]

should be pooling on envenom, so I guess yeah

if you pool on envenom instead of before shiv, you technically also pool before shiv

[weak horizon]

What's the reasoning behind pooling on envenom? And how high should I aim to pool?

[drowsy pond]

i should be pooling before each envenom?

about what percent

[balmy condor]

you pool till about 30ish energy from cap

[balmy condor]

pooling on envenom means you pool for everything automatically

EP uptime? envenom uptime? shiv coming off cd? cp/energy before flag? or vendetta?

all solved by just pooling on envenom

obviously if you're in vend/flag/shiv, you should slam the envenom

[weak horizon]

Sorry, what's EP?

[balmy condor]

and not hold it like a pepega

but outside of those burst windows

pool good

[balmy condor]

elaborate planning

first row middle talent

[weak horizon]

Oh, duh

[patent plaza]

I was looking for assassination rogues on raider.io but every time I click one it says not found.. someone have a link to a high end m+ sin rogue run?

[balmy condor]

https://raider.io/characters/eu/hyjal/Deïræ#season=season-sl-1

https://www.twitch.tv/polyvalence_dei

[patent plaza]

Thank you very much

[balmy condor]

np

[stoic needle]

Dei tha god

[balmy condor]

also @iron orchid

since I know you don't like it when people talk about you without a ping

[stoic needle]

[balmy condor]

baguette looking weirdo

[weak horizon]

When simming for aoe should I just use dungeon slice? Or are there better raidbots config?

Also, thanks a shit ton everyone for all the answers and feedback

[balmy condor]

ah the eternal question that plagues the theorycrafting community until the earth explodes

[stoic needle]

Personally I do both dungeon slice and 5 target or 8 target patchwerk

[patent plaza]

interesting.. no CT he is using pb and ep

[stoic needle]

And see if there are differences between both

[balmy condor]

well that's what he logged out with

[stoic needle]

You should look more into the actual runs, he does use Ct mostly

[patent plaza]

sorry, not used to IO im trying to learn 🙂

[stoic needle]

It's fine, it's a common misconception

It's not obvious that the specific runs are different unless you go digging

[balmy condor]

so the idea here is actually a little nuanced, and depends on who you ask. For keys specifically, theorycrafters tend to recommend dungeonslice, while high end players like seli for example, usually sim just patchwerk aoe 5 target 1:30 with no bloodlust, or something like that. The difference is that dungeonslice is a mixture of single target, cleave, and aoe, while patchwerk 5 target is well, 5 target. So if you put more value into the aoe damage of a key, might be worth simming aoe patchwerk. If you're looking for an estimate of a mix of single target/aoe, dungeonslice is probably better for that

dungeonslice gets a bit of a bad rep, mostly because a lot of classes don't have proper implementation for it

[stoic needle]

Back to the sim thing, I think it's better to sim with multiple different setups so you understand what gear/talents/legendaries work well in what target counts so you can then make informed decisions when youre actually doing keys. Imo dungeon slice is fine but there's more nuance to be gained if you do more sims

[balmy condor]

the rogue tc community is nuts though, so we're one of the few classes with actual optimizations for dungeonslice

[subtle tundra]

you guys simming? when i play sin i just put my raid setup and change leggo

[stoic needle]

I don't really have enough gear where I'd change things much

[balmy condor]

oh the other common complaint about dungeonslice is "too much single target"

"not enough aoe"

stuff like that

or "pull times too short"

you hear that one a lot too

but obviously that highly depends on your route, the dungeon, the group, etc

[stoic needle]

But the talents are a bit flexible depending on which legendaries you are using and what the affixes are

[balmy condor]

and it doesn't actually seem to change the evaluation much if you tweak the settings a bit

[stoic needle]

Did you ever do that custom dslice with 10+ targets whispyr?

[balmy condor]

yeh but it was incredibly uninteresting

was basically the same thing, but the numbers were higher

[stoic needle]

The order didn't change at all?

[balmy condor]

doomblade got a little worse

zold a little better

[stoic needle]

That's what I figured

[balmy condor]

all expected things

more aoe = aoe legendary does better

wow

[patent plaza]

Is there a way to get more info in this IO for a dungeon run? more like average dps etc

[balmy condor]

nah

you can try and see if the runs are logged

little warcraftlogs button right there

should take you to his profile

and then you can hunt around for key runs that are logged

not a lot of people logging runs though

[stoic needle]

Expected, yes, but it's better to know for sure than to just assume :P

[balmy condor]

dei for example does log some of his runs

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/character/eu/hyjal/Deïræ?zone=25&new=true#boss=12290

most if not all of his high runs are on there

[patent plaza]

thank you once agan

again*

[balmy condor]

any time

[patent plaza]

so I see his averae dps for the dungeon is 6.5k or round abouts (based on this dungeon and this log) but.. I think I am looking for a bit more.. like a details spit out which I dont think I am going to get.. Id like to learn and figure out how to do each each pull.. my opener.. etc

I see he mainly uses MA

which is great, as thats what im using

[balmy condor]

Well if it’s logged

You can see anything you’d like

Logs are kinda for that

[patent plaza]

maybe im not poking around enough.. ill keep looking

sorry

[balmy condor]

No problem

You can sort by pulls

Timeline -> casts is a good way to see the rotation

If you go to damage done, you can see damage breakdowns

Buffs/debuffs are obviously buffs/uptimes

[kind talon]

whisp

why are u such a saint?

[balmy condor]

You haven’t met a saint

[kind talon]

not tru

id swap assassination just to get advice from u

then realize i cant play ass and swap backl

tbh

[verbal knot]

Question,should i play with deeper strat with 18% haste as venthyr?

I barely fit 2 envenoms during shiv

[stoic needle]

https://tenor.com/view/sim-simyoself-gif-20048910

[kind talon]

what happened to the emojis in ur name bro

[stoic needle]

Mod abuse

[kind talon]

😦

[stoic needle]

Too lazy to put them back

[kind talon]

it made me lol everytime

next to ur pfp

feels bad man

[stoic needle]

I'll come up with something better eventually

[patent plaza]

HA found it! its not in english but ill make due cus icons lol

[candid mountain]

So do assassination rouges always have to have rupture going?

[patent plaza]

rupture gives energy regen, so yes

[candid mountain]

Ok.

[verbal knot]

Refresh it when it has less than 6s left

[candid mountain]

Alright.

And is kidney shot useful?

[kind talon]

yes

[patent plaza]

I mean, its a stun, and if you are using internal bleeding

[candid mountain]

Ok. Heard in classic it does nothing.

[kind talon]

its up to a 6 second stun

and huge damage in pvp with internal bleeding

[balmy condor]

Only real answer is sim yourself

[kind talon]

if you're raiding then its useless for immune targets

but you can use it on things like shades etc

[balmy condor]

There should be a translate button top right of logs that’ll auto-translate everything

Kidney is massive for utility in keys and basically required in pvp

[patent plaza]

yeah its set to english, but the timeline itself isn't reflecting it

which is ok

[verbal knot]

Deeper strat sims better on patchwerk,even saw a guy with 13% haste that showed deeper as 40+ dps but the thing is you cant fit 3 envenoms during shiv window with deeper

[balmy condor]

Weird

[balmy condor]

Why does envenom during shiv window matter?

It sims higher

Main gain on shiv is the uptime

Not some magic breakpoint of envenoms you can cast during it

[slim siren]

hey whispyr running doomblade does internal give enough value to take pret on the weak out?

[balmy condor]

[slim siren]

or is prey just to strong rn

[balmy condor]

I mean that whole row is utility

So I’m gonna say ??? I guess?

[slim siren]

lol ok wasnt sure if internal worked with doomblades envenom passive

[balmy condor]

It does

[kind talon]

prey is bis for that row

[balmy condor]

But it’s still combo points you have to use on a kidney

Which isn’t worth it

[kind talon]

u need to keep kidney as cc

and prey helps you focus down when u press it

synergy is too good not to take

imo

[balmy condor]

I mean, you don’t need to keep it as cc

[slim siren]

hm i find myself kindeying almost on cd in mythic plus maybe im not doing that right then lol

[balmy condor]

But if you like doing damage then kidney isn’t the button to hit

[kind talon]

ass in keys right?

or law?

[slim siren]

assassin

[kind talon]

i mean

u can use kidney on cd if you want

but u dont have gouge so

its ur best way to deal with prot casts

[balmy condor]

Yeh

[kind talon]

loyal beasts and jumpers in spires etc

but its a dps loss when u hit it

like every time

so i usually will just fire it off with low cp

unless tanks need help in a big pull

then its fine to 6 cp kidney

or 5

[slim siren]

true i never thought of it before cause ive never looked into that talent row but prey works the same if its a 1 or 6 cp kindey doesnt it?

[balmy condor]

I mean as an actual answer, I’m not sure how prey/internal actually affects damage. It’s not simmable, and prey depends on the dps of your group

So the real answer is “both options give you an irrelevant amount of damage that shouldn’t change your preference”

[kind talon]

prey is 6 seconds

every time

internal depends on the cp you spend

but 10% damage isnt irrelevant imo

[slim siren]

ah ok that makes sense then why internal isnt used much

[kind talon]

its just more than internal in most situations

idk i dont like internal cause it forces bad habits

in pvp its noticable tho

[balmy condor]

I mean in m+ you’re probably playing subt

And then most likely taking iron wire anyway

So it doesn’t really matter tbh

Technically any damage is more damage

So

I guess

[slim siren]

fair

[balmy condor]

Also the reason why people think internal is insane is because it’s insane in pvp

[kind talon]

lol true

[balmy condor]

But the scaling on that is much different in pve

[kind talon]

iron wire

[balmy condor]

Where it doesn’t really do shit

[kind talon]

insane

[slim siren]

alright thats good to know trying to min max sin to carry my friend whos new to the game in anyway i can lol

icy veins sin trinkets are still accurate right

[balmy condor]

No idea

Probably?

[slim siren]

decanter and phial

got a ??? trinket wansnt sure if it was worth upgrading cause i didnt see much of it on lists

[balmy condor]

It’s pretty good

But there is a concern to be had about multiple uses

Usually for m+ or short raid bosses, or something like sludgefist where burst cooldowns are crazy

Really really good

[slim siren]

guessing that trinket is a sim trap or somthin tho cause of all its uses i havent tryed it yet

i might have to upgrade it if i dont get a decanter this week then

[balmy condor]

“Sim trap” isn’t something we say around here

But kinda

It’s just if you cast at a bad time

[slim siren]

what do you call stuff that only works in theory then

[balmy condor]

You’ll get screwed

[balmy condor]

We don’t really have a term for that

[slim siren]

alright fair enough

[balmy condor]

Sim bait and sim trap at that kind of stuff just tends to devolve into “sims bad” and people ignoring sims and stuff

And it’s just not a good rabbit hole to go down

[slim siren]

true some people do hear stuff once and decide never to trust sims again lol

[balmy condor]

It’s why I pulled the bis list

And why my email is now flooded with people requesting permission

[stoic needle]

[slim siren]

did people only think they could use stuff off the bis list even tho bis doesnt exactly work anymore lol

[stoic needle]

Just a crumb of bis list

[balmy condor]

Yeah

[slim siren]

only bis list i really like are trinkets and if special weapon effects are worth it general gear doesnt matter enough to not just sim it and go

[balmy condor]

Woke up every Tuesday/Wednesday morning with DM’s along the lines of “why does this sim higher than the bis item”

[slim siren]

my god

yea i dont blame you id be gone for me to

[balmy condor]

I remember one of them was like a 190 something item for a mythic +shit

Versus a 210

And they were like

“Yo 20 ilvl but that 190 is bis, do I take it”?”

[queen galleon]

"???" Trinket is a massive trap do not use it

[balmy condor]

I didn’t read it until like 3 hours later

[slim siren]

how do you care about your class enough to come talk in the discord but not to sim or know ilvl prios

[balmy condor]

And when I did, he goes “oh I already took the 190, rip”

[limber lion]

People are dummies

[slim siren]

well yea true

[slow marsh]

Big dumb

Only watch a certain youtuber and then think they can play rogue

[slim siren]

yea i used to think i knew how to play rogue then this xpac came along

and im like well guess im dumb again

[kind talon]

iqd

is a trinket that requires you to use before / on pull

while your party is full health and mana

therefore, you can't use it on cooldown

[queen galleon]

Its scuffed

[kind talon]

therefore, you might want to use it on pull in raid but not for m+

[slim siren]

true and prob not the best to use when you have a blood dk going from 10% to 100% hp every few seconds in m+

[kind talon]

cause you cant change trinkets in m+

[slim siren]

just realized that xD

[balmy condor]

It’s also a very tiresome discussion to have trying to tell people that it’s a good trinket

[kind talon]

you just end up losing casts

[odd python]

!opener

[kind talon]

its a good trinket

because that much main stat

is huge

and it doesnt have to perform as well as the sim because its huge

you just need to play around it

[slim siren]

hm fair seems better just to stick with wing and ooze for now despite how glitchy it is

[kind talon]

ooze?

infinitely divisible ooze?

[queen galleon]

Wing is good but holy fuck you don't want that on sludge prog

[kind talon]

that trinket is def worse than iqd

[slim siren]

yea but i have it at 210 rn

[queen galleon]

He might have confused ooze and vial

[slim siren]

is it that bad lol

to its infinite ooze

[slow marsh]

Just get the iqd weak aura and all your problems are aolved

[kind talon]

what is at 210?

[slim siren]

ooze

[kind talon]

whats iqd?

[slim siren]

194 rn but was thinking of upping it when i get a chance

[subtle tundra]

upping? you want to upgrade a 194 trinket?

sketchy

[slow marsh]

Sim both at 220 and you'll have your answer

[lament mica]

it an iqd...everyone knows those drop 1/100 dos runs

upgrading 194 doesn't sound that bad at all

[slow marsh]

Trinks are cheap upgrade

[slim siren]

yea i was gonna up it if i didnt get decanter by the end of the week lol

[kind talon]

400

per upgrade

194-220 is 8 upgrades

thats 3200 for one piece

[slow marsh]

I mean I guess

[kind talon]

when weapons are 500 per and more important than trinkets idk

[lament mica]

depends wat u need

[kind talon]

try to get things to drop at 210

but yeah of course

[lament mica]

its not very worth to upgrade something a lot if all ur gear needs to be upgraded

[kind talon]

yep

[queen galleon]

Only trinket I'm willing to farm is vial, otherwise I just use mythic skulker or inerva's

[lament mica]

IQD could be a lot better for sin. u look at some other classes and it sims like 100 dps more than the closest trinket

fors ome classes IQD is nuts

for sin im pretty sure phial actually sims higher

[slim siren]

fair im not wrong in thinking decanter is still king for m+ right

or is that not true for sin

[kind talon]

decanter is not v good

if u have it at 226 u can use it

[queen galleon]

I'm progressing on last 3 bosses and hp % is such a rng with a medium level guild I will not be able to play IQD

[kind talon]

thats why you activate it once on pull and swap it with another trinket

[odd python]

Hey - new to SL assa
What is the best opener.
I do
muti -> snd -> muti -> garrote -> rupture -> flaggelion + ma -> stealth -> muti -> shiv -> env

ant it feels clunky af

[slim siren]

i only do m+ so im just trying to gear for that dont care about raid rn

[kind talon]

actually 5head

[queen galleon]

That do not work anymore

[slim siren]

guess ill farm phial then

[kind talon]

why

[kind talon]

why

did they change it?

[queen galleon]

You just can't swap it anymore after pull

[balmy condor]

Would flag before rupture

[kind talon]

huh

[queen galleon]

And if you do before you lose the active

[balmy condor]

Yeah they fixed that out real quick

Must’ve been like 2-2.5 months ago?

[queen galleon]

Yeah

[slim siren]

yea that would be a bit broken

[kind talon]

oh shit

lol

[odd python]

but I am not wrong by thinking it is very.. slow ?
idk BFA assa had waaay more dynamic opener

[queen galleon]

I just wish Raidbot would put a value on prepull trinket like inerva

[balmy condor]

Yes

Sin is slow

That’s normal

[slim siren]

yea sin feels alot diff then other xpacs for me

not stacking mast is just blowing my mind xD

[balmy condor]

It really shouldn’t feel all that different

[dark token]

Play ep/vigor if you hate ds

[raven locust]

We haven't stacked mastery in such a long time

[balmy condor]

Sin hasn’t played different in a very long time

[dark token]

Similar playstyle to previous expacs and it's actually the best cleave talents for taid

[balmy condor]

The only real difference was exsang sorta