Yeh
#assassination
fallow otter
shy dust
People are decked out in gear on average at this point
hexed root
do we go duelist or familiar predict? I was seeing familiar bu tlooking at simcraft it says duelist
fallow otter
We 41% with one dps dead for ages
shy dust
Duelist for ST
fallow otter
So we'll be holding soon
fallow otter
Yeah
shy dust
Having only one charge of step is painful
fallow otter
I get a bop so I'm gucci
hexed root
wouldn't duelist be fine for AoE as well, or swap every time? Seems fine to have a "main focus" target that's taking 3% extra while aoeing the rest compared to what, running well-placed steel?
drifting cloud
boping a rogue seems questionable
shy dust
We had a spare bop and I got it this week
So free
Soaked ravage like a moron though and proceed CD
shy dust
wouldn't duelist be fine for AoE as well, or swap every time? Seems fine to have...
Only boss where i wouldn’t run dauntless is like slg and sunking
slender urchin
We don’t have a lot of great targets. It just kind of worked out that way. One goes to our lock, the other to me. The other potential picks are our two MM hunters but they’re kinda dumpstered right now
Unlimited energy during pillar is pretty solid too
hexed root
@shy dust those two make sense. Wonder if it'd be easier to just run a different soulbind altogether for those two bosses so you're not having to run back and forth to covenant
drifting cloud
no you go double potency
shy dust
Just swap to 2nd potency
drifting cloud
and get summoned back
hexed root
yea, new to venth. didn't realize how "Awful" the other soulbinds are in comparison
slender urchin
I love the NF binds. They each have their own niche.
slender urchin
It really should’ve been the template
I love everything about venthyr, but the soulbinds leave something to be desired
drifting cloud
wow your 2nd priest isnt even piing on pull
thats just so terrible
you should pi both mages on pull
and lock on 4th pillar other is ffa I guess
indigo mulch
ye
You need to PI your mages so they get combust ready D;
Well you don't need it but it helps
drifting cloud
instead your priest is doing lock 1st pillar and 4th so you just straight up lose a cast
shy dust
You need to PI your mages so they get combust ready D;
Nah
From speaking with mages in my guild
It’s not needed anymore
But it helps
indigo mulch
I'm pretty sure you can only get there with high haste and berserking.
shy dust
But also fire is one of the few specs who cooldowns on pull
And nah
Guild is alliance and he could get it
shy dust
O
drifting cloud
iits not that few
vast forum
DK uses CDs on pull too
drifting cloud
wait is it only boomie and lock that dont then
vast forum
if you army pull, you get it for lust + 4th pillar
indigo mulch
I'm pretty sure you save army for no?
Oh
Wait really? I thought army was like 5~6min cd
vast forum
abom limb on pull, 2nd pillar, 4th pillar
vast forum
army is ~4
drifting cloud
yeah closer to 4 I guess
vast forum
on pure patchwerk, it can go under 3.30
i just checked 1 of my recent hungering logs and i had it at 3.30, even tho there's 2 minor downtime phases
indigo mulch
We are talking sludgeboi right? I'm pretty sure you only get 1 army on that fight. 😮
gloomy knoll
@balmy condor is there any bonespike optimization for st or do you just use them on cd for sin?
indigo mulch
I mean unless they give you every PI in the world.
vast forum
there's no way you only get 1 army on sludge
drifting cloud
you easily get 2 armies on sludge lol
vast forum
it's a 5 min fight
vast forum
because they use 1 pre-pull probably
drifting cloud
maybe they prepul
indigo mulch
If you look through the logs, most sludgeboi fights clocks in at 5:30ish
like 90% of them only have 1 army
Some do though, i'm guessing thats why they stack PI on DK's oO
vast forum
that's always a pre-pull army tho
indigo mulch
Fair
vast forum
there's no need for PIs to get an army back in 5 min
indigo mulch
Oh well, you learn something new everyday.
drifting cloud
just check the dmg graph
ionic kelp
stable moss
do we want to stack more mastery in m+
balmy condor
more than in single target
which is like
maybe a little
but not enough to warrant searching for it
indigo mulch
But the scottish guy said mastery is great!
stoic needle
@balmy condor so what's the math behind mastery scaling slightly better than haste in AOE? the % damage increase from mastery just ends up giving you more damage than the extra ticks from haste?
brittle venture
if i wanna play sin for pvp/ST in raid & outlaw for cleave/m+ what would the best cov overall be?
limpid blaze
would all hell break loose if i recommended people in m+ assa:
- haste >= crit
2 vers >= mastery
??
balmy condor
no
stoic needle
if you want to do the most single target damage: venthyr, if you want to do the most aoe damage: necrolord
balmy condor
recommending crit over haste is also fine honestly
limpid blaze
yeah i was thinking that
stoic needle
only you can decide which is more important to you @brittle venture
stoic needle
i think giving context is so nice
limpid blaze
i shall continue doing that then
stoic needle
cuz ppl just look at the stat recommendations and follow them without knowing why
but if someone understands that it's dependent on target count that may influence their gearing decisions
limpid blaze
yeah im trying to actually get people in the know of why they do that or why they press that
instead of following just because they're told
stoic needle
you're doing god's work
limpid blaze
makes you a much better player if you actually understand the intricacies of the class
south umbra
is there a cap on how much haste flagellation will give?
balmy condor
30
low girder
30
stoic needle
30%
limpid blaze
30% i think
low girder
lol
south umbra
ty lol
stoic needle
enjoy ~12 second bloodlust
low girder
speaking of
does vanishing do weird shit with flag stacks for anyone else
had it happen a couple times in keys
where it'll just stop stacking for some reason
balmy condor
I haven't noticed it
stoic needle
i haven't paid attention enough to notice it either
low girder
i noticed it one time on SLG this week and i meant to go back to that pull
stoic needle
i dont pay attention to flag stacks at all tbh i just press the button and blast
south umbra
should we be reliably hitting it? in LFR for renown now and getting like 20-25 usually
stoic needle
20-25 is pretty good
balmy condor
yeah that's normal
low girder
in raid no you probably won't ever hit it
south umbra
schweet
stoic needle
i kinda wish i had a higher ilvl anima battery just for syncing with flag
limpid blaze
i think i'm sold on vigor > mfd in dungs
feels like it scales smoothly
also this weeks affixes are actually toxic for assa
stoic needle
but hoo boy law with a 207 mh is fucking trash
limpid blaze
at least law has long arms
stoic needle
they nerfed the spiteful melee range thank god
limpid blaze
unless you play cloaked in shadow but i ran out of conduit energy
stoic needle
celerity week 
stoic needle
I'm glad i didn't upgrade my ma to 235 this week or i'd be salty
MA+KS is too much fun
celery so boring
low girder
maybe someday
limpid blaze
yea
stoic needle
i have about 6k ash just sitting here
low girder
yeah well i made a finality
stoic needle
probably gonna max MA and then ??
stoic needle
limpid blaze
dashing scoundrel master poisoner 
stoic needle
limpid blaze
low girder
stoic needle
i should do some 2 legendary sims sometime
i'm gonna be sad if it's just doomblade + dashing
limpid blaze
dashing scoundrel, master poisoner, mastery stacking, sleeper op 
stoic needle
now you're speaking my language 
balmy condor
dashing + pb is actually usable in keys
vast forum
@balmy condor do you know if there's a way to sim just an execute phase?
balmy condor
yeh
stoic needle
how much worse is it than CT zold
balmy condor
<@!167090536602140682> do you know if there's a way to sim just an execute phase...
there's execute patchwerk as a default fight type
vast forum
does it assume you're out of stealth then? 😄
limpid blaze
NGL if you can keep on top of CT it fucking slaps
stoic needle
i've had some glorious CT uptime before
balmy condor
does it assume you're out of stealth then? 😄
no it'll be like normal
stoic needle
is vendetta too weak of a CD to make duskwalkers bis as our 2nd legendary?
vast forum
2nd legendary 
limpid blaze
I had a 71% Elaborate planning uptime in a DoS17 with spiteful downtime
balmy condor
no, the problem with duskwalkers is that it lowers vend to 70 sec cd
stoic needle
2nd legendary <:kekw:610125925413289985>
hey i can dream
balmy condor
which is dogshit
stoic needle
how is it dogshit 
low girder
if that happens you might be able to make something happen combining it with dashing
vast forum
if it was 60, it would line up with a lot of stuff
low girder
outside of that no
limpid blaze
oh yeah, another reason these affixes suck, i cant guage how dps is because half the time im stuck in combat moving to next pack and it drags down overall, its really annoying when trying to test different things
vast forum
but i can see 70 being fine tbh
stoic needle
30% extra damage is on the better side of cds isnt it
stoic needle
yeah its trash in aoe
low girder
but desyncing from vanish just makes it weird
if it's not an even multiple
compared to the other leggos
vast forum
tbf in a 5 min fight, you could just delay the 2 later vanishes by ~20 sec each
if you have 70 sec vendettas
stoic needle
2 guaranteed +15% damage envenom crits
vast forum
but that's on exactly 5 min fights 😄
low girder
duskwalker's + dashing might be pretty decent, whether it would outsim other combos idk
you'd probably get to 60s that way
stoic needle
throw a little NS in there
stoic needle
double legendaries for every class except mage 
vast forum
i want 1 leggo with 2 powers instead of 2 leggos
so you can't combine any 2 leggos but only those that go on the same slot 😄
stoic needle
lament mica
that limits shit too much
vast forum
but that for sure won't happen
lament mica
for no real reason
low girder
so what would sin get
stoic needle
dashing zoldyck
low girder
TTB zoldyck 
vast forum
for no real reason
real reason is that they wanna re-add tier sets and shit and having 2 slots taken by legendaries is meh
but also, limiting things could be better than having super OP cookie-cutter combos
like, you could choose the combo of your best + 4th best vs 2nd best + 3rd best leggo
stoic needle
deathly zoldyck 
lament mica
ya but I'd rather they just balance accordingly than add a system like that
low girder
doomblade/bloodfang
vast forum
there is no "balance accordingly" with systems upon systems
stoic needle
doomblade/bloodfang
this would be pog if bloodfang counted for doomblade
low girder
wait this gives outlaw MA + celerity
vast forum
this game will never be properly balanced as long as they keep their borrowed power philosophy
low girder
i'm out
lament mica
i mean there is though. as soon as u can have 2 leggos, the balance of individuals leggos doesn't matter. the balance of 2 together does, so u just nerf and buff around that fact
stoic needle
maybe this is why they gave the legendaries specific slots 
vast forum
1 of the primary reasons they wouldn't give us 2 powers on 1 piece is because then ppl who made their leggos in "the wrong slot" would lose their shit on the forums
stoic needle
what, you don't want MA/arbiter? 
stoic needle
i'd like them to add expanded secondary effects to the legendaries but I don't believe that blizzard is capable of that
we'll probably see them let us just boost the effect of them for some extra ash
and change the stats
zoldyck is now 45% under 45% or something crazy like that
stoic needle
thats def the lazy approach
vast forum
and maybe let us use 2 in 9.2
stoic needle
was 2 legendaries universally loved back in legion?
stoic needle
was it?
vast forum
yes, but you needed to unlock it or smt
stoic needle
ah
vast forum
maybe i'm wrong tho, maybe it was 7.1
low girder
yep
stoic needle
well, the fact that everyone loved it means that it's definitely likely that it comes back
vast forum
i was thinking what it was connected to
low girder
which is why i kinda think it won't happen here
vast forum
thing is, current leggos for some classes are bonkers
stoic needle
i have some faith that we won't go the whole exp with 12% BOAT
vast forum
the fact that rogue's best leggo from legion (MA) is now 1 of the worst says enough
low girder
i think if they do that we might end up with like 1 more legendary at 50% power
or something
stoic needle
unless blizzard has completely lost it
low girder
and maybe they'll nerf some shit
low girder
but tbh think it's more likely we get nothing
low girder
yeah, it does
vast forum
covenants aren't clunky, they're just shit
stoic needle
clunky is blizzard's MO lmao
vast forum
but they're straightforward
you join a covenant and farm renown
it's not a "1 full lego, 1 half lego" type of deal
misty holly
i think if they do that we might end up with like 1 more legendary at 50% power
9.2 we get class sets again finally. 9.3 they just let us wear as many legendaries as we can craft to get out of having to make tier sets again.
vast forum
how do you convey to a casual player that they get 1 normal 1 weak lego?
stoic needle
through some jailer tie in
low girder
9.2 we get class sets again finally. 9.3 they just let us wear as many legendar...
lmao
vast forum
tbf
back in legion
i felt like they should have let us use all leggos at the end
in bfa prepatch
just for the memes
low girder
instead we had some insane proc
misty holly
Imagine the engagement metrics as people grind torghast every week for ash
low girder
ended up being like 15k mainstat or some shit
vast forum
that was just on the wep tho
stoic needle
i really feel like some of the popular azerite traits from BFA are going to come back
low girder
yeah but that was their "end of xpac" thing
vast forum
and it wasn't prepatch
stoic needle
somehow
vast forum
it was 7.3.2
stoic needle
like as tier set bonuses or new conduits or something
vast forum
in prepatch, we had weps completely disabled
low girder
yeah that was an experience
vast forum
the good old concordance of legionfall
low girder
and not a good one
stoic needle
yeah those weapons you spent the whole expansion farming to power up?
BYE
get fucked, idiots
gloomy knoll
wouldn't it be better do sbs after the 2nd mutilate then rupture (assuming the 2nd mute gave 4cp) that way if A. the sbs bugs and gives 1 cp you can garrote rupture, and B. if it doesn't you can just rupture garrote
subtle tundra
it doesnt account for bugs
low girder
unless it crits obv
which it might have idk
maybe if MA was consistent i would know
subtle tundra
also its a "sample" not an opener
hard pivot
We finally killed sludge tonight yeeehawww, we were stuck on it for literally a month lmao
subtle tundra
you have depression ahead, my friend
hard pivot
My guild makes no fucking sense, so I wouldn't be surprised if we dunk on SLG in like 100-125 pulls
gloomy knoll
yea but going off samples because i keep getting ignored
gloomy knoll
but if the apl does that consistently
wouldn't it be an improvement to swap the sbs in earlier
balmy condor
No
But if you got 4cp obviously you would garrote into rupture
And then continue
And the apl does that
gloomy knoll
but wouldn't 4 cp + the 2 from bonespike into a 6 cp rupture be better
than a 5 cp rupture?
or is it about getting garrote up earlier
for venomous wounds?
balmy condor
Garrote earlier
There’s actually no downside to a 5cp rup except inefficient energy
gloomy knoll
it also only uses sbs when it's about to cap on charges
wouldn't it be more efficient to use them to force 6 cp
when you have 4
that way you don't risk losing cp from mutilate
torn atlas
As far as I know, you want all dots and snd up prio for energy. Then worry about hitting beefy Rupts.
gloomy knoll
yea the venomous wounds thing makes sense
balmy condor
wouldn't it be more efficient to use them to force 6 cp
Forcing like that leads to other problems timing wise that creates no gain
bleak glacier
what slot for MA leggo? a while back i remember it being wrist but wanted to make sure
stoic needle
wrist if you pvp , ring if you pve
balmy condor
oh really? interesting <:peepostudy:585733927562641408>
Yeah a lot of time the “logical” gain, doesn’t actually show a gain. Like with LBE timing on sub, the “logical” gain is to hold for dance/symbols, and then go, but that actually pulls a noticeable loss because you’re using sbs in a way that actually negatively affects the part outside of dance
balmy condor
so just use it w/e u want then?
Pretty much
balmy condor
Any time
gloomy knoll
so if i do have the 2nd mutilate crit to 4 cp
in my opener
i garrote then rupture at 5
sbs > shiv / vend
into vanish mut env mut
?
gloomy knoll
and just ignore the possible 1 cp loss right
ok that works for me
time to hit some dummies lol
it is kinda fun that the opener regularly changes based on cp
balmy condor
and just ignore the possible 1 cp loss right
Still not a “loss” technically
Rupture ticks do equal damage regardless of CP
gloomy knoll
oh i meant if shiv crits with sbs that takes me to 3 and with vanish mut u can get 4+3 if everything crits sorry shoulda worded better xd
quick vale
Rupture ticks do equal damage regardless of CP
I feel dumb for never realizing this 😂
balmy condor
oh i meant if shiv crits with sbs that takes me to 3 and with vanish mut u can g...
Oh, yeh
balmy condor
I feel dumb for never realizing this 😂
Yeah, without doing tooltip math it’s hard to tell for the average person tbh
rose oak
Noob Sin Rogue Question: When using Blindside talent when do we Ambush > Mut?
gloomy knoll
^ blindside good cuz it makes the ambush free
otherwise ambush is pretty meh from my understanding
rose oak
Thank you, I was wondering about that.
void pecan
It does double damage of mut? but doesn't give the CP IIRC
lament mica
double damage? no way
prisma monolithBOT
Ambush is currently only used from blindside/sepsis proc, not from stealth.
The reasoning is a little complicated, but the most important of them is the difference in combo points on crit (up to 4 vs 3).
Some other factors to consider are increased poison applications, blindside, and doomblade. This is true for all talent combinations and legendaries.
weak horizon
Does anyone have some time to look at my logs and help me improve? I'm not sure where I'm messing up. https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/JYz3TbK1m4qpg8Vk
balmy condor
I would but I’m on mobile and gonna pass out in like an hour
Just had tacos
And it be hittin different
weak horizon
Lol, no worries. I'll post then here some other time for feedback if I don't get any tonight.
fossil slate
Wait, Whispyr actually sleeps 
balmy condor
Wait, Whispyr actually sleeps <:poggers:652288776021999626>
Contrary to popular belief :P
boreal cliff
Hello there I was wondering what was the best leggo for Assassination , is icy vein recommendation viable ?
void pecan
lament mica
have u thrown it into one of those websites? idk if wowanalyzer is optimized for sin, but it can give u some basics that can help u analyze better
boreal cliff
cheers
void pecan
all of them are close
balmy condor
Wowanalyzer still dogshit to my knowledge
void pecan
but doom and zoldy are best
lament mica
it still tells u shit like bleed uptime
take it with a grain of salt, but its good for stuff like that
weak horizon
Wow analyzer doesn't support sin right now. I tried it right before posting here 😭
balmy condor
Ye
fallow otter
You need to know how to get the correct information from wowanalyzer to use it correctly for some classes and fights and if you know how you also know how to just look at the log directly so imo it doesn't really serve much of a purpose
void pecan
bleed uptime, proper pooling for vendetta/shiv windows, snd not falling off
gloomy knoll
do you ideally just want 2 envenoms in a shiv window?
weak horizon
How big of a deal is pooling for shiv so you can use it as soon as it's off cd?
gloomy knoll
is it ideal to shiv near full cp so you can envenom right away then?
void pecan
for vendetta
stoic needle
Contrary to popular belief :P
weak horizon
Yeah, I think shiv at max cp is okay
fallow otter
Gotta get 4 or it is time for the bench, O wait this ain't 8.3
balmy condor
is it ideal to shiv near full cp so you can envenom right away then?
Yes but it’s more ideal to slam on cd
lament mica
ur not using troll active lol
gloomy knoll
or do you use 4 and just play with the 20 seconds of wiggle room
balmy condor
If you really want to min-max, you hold shiv for a max of 12 seconds to line up with vendetta
And otherwise
weak horizon
ur not using troll active lol
Fuck, I keep forgetting to bind that
balmy condor
Slam slam slam
lament mica
gloomy knoll
gotcha ty
fallow otter
If it's your last cd you can hold vendetta instead ofc assuming you will get full duration
lament mica
literally bind it to an ability with a 30 second cd and call it a day
or actually ur rogue, just bind it to vendetrta
gloomy knoll
why would you do that
balmy condor
Thinking about shiv as a maintenance debuff with a cooldown, instead of a burst cd, usually helps
gloomy knoll
sin has like 0 buttons
balmy condor
It’s the uptime that’s important more than anything
lament mica
im talking about troll active. and why wouldn't you
gloomy knoll
you can easily have a keybind for all
weak horizon
Slam shiv even if you drop bleeds? Or get good to the point at which you never drop bleeds by shiving on cd?
gloomy knoll
thought u meant binding shiv to vend xd my bad lol
weak horizon
And thanks, I'll definitely fix using troll active
balmy condor
Slam shiv even if you drop bleeds? Or get good to the point at which you never d...
The latter, but yes, slam even if you drop
gloomy knoll
ideally refresh bleeds before u slam shiv
balmy condor
Ye
gloomy knoll
so you don't run into that problem
young hamlet
So is anyone good playing Necrolord? Would be interesting to see what build and what opener to use, I’ve been experimenting some myself
stoic needle
young hamlet
Haha any input is good
gloomy knoll
@balmy condor will you look at a 2min log or is it too late .-.
young hamlet
To begin with, does Bone Spike bleed work with Doomblade now? Don’t think it did before?
balmy condor
To begin with, does Bone Spike bleed work with Doomblade now? Don’t think it did...
Yes, yes
stoic needle
Facts
gloomy knoll
@shy dust will you go over my 2 min sin log 
young hamlet
Elaborate Planning or Blindside as necrolord? I feel like I can use Bone Spike as a substitute for the Blindside procs which makes it feel more consistent. Don’t know if it’s numerically better though
balmy condor
Solution would be to sim yourself
Usually blindside in single target
But you don’t take it ever in aoe
young hamlet
Blindside sims +9 on ST for me, which doesn’t convince me that it’s better in practice. This is just from a simple talent compare on raidbots though, havn’t dove into my own custom sims
torn atlas
+9 with extra buttons sounds like a down grade to me haha
young hamlet
Indeed! And also a layer of rng
shy dust
<@!179752119945920512> will you go over my 2 min sin log <:feelsloveman:58798229...
id recommend asking whispyr
im very lazy at reading logs
tribal marlin
Blindside is execute tho
gloomy knoll
ok ty i'll bug him tomorrow
young hamlet
True, I’m guessing the sim only hits 100% target?
tribal marlin
nah the sims have execute counted in
lament mica
we have the technology
young hamlet
Haha okay, neat
wary pawn
if have very good gloves, but 220 shoulders and my guild is stuck at 4/10 M is worth it to make shoulders legendary or still worse than gloves?
tribal marlin
Shoulder and Gloves have same stat budget
so yeah if you won't get SLG shoulder anytime soon you can go for shoulder
wary pawn
ty
opaque sigil
guys, can someone share a link to a nice plater profile optimized for dot classes?
just want to get an idea how a good one should look like
torn atlas
I thought I had a nice plater profile going until last week, when bolstering got plastered over the top of all my bleeds and shit. Was running blind half the time.
ebon bramble
tender frost
are sin dots no longer affected by snapshots? sry its been awhile since ive played it. just getting back into it
just noticed the snapshot numbers arent like my ferals on the WA's
fallow otter
Yep not a thing
proper belfry
What does ‘shiv’ mean by a concentrated dose of non-lethal poison?
fallow otter
What does ‘shiv’ mean by a concentrated dose of non-lethal poison?
It's toxic blade from bfa
And
The added bonus is that if you have numbing you can soothe enrage
low girder
the non-lethal part means either numbing or crippling
like he said numbing removes an enrage effectr
crippling applies a bigger slow
proper belfry
Okay thanks dudes!
fallow otter
what legendaries are you all using?
Invokers delight
proper belfry
Does envenom hit for more than evis btw?
fallow otter
On rogue I use heaps lol but if you mean specially for sin, I already had MA from sub pvp and outlaw NW keys so I crafted doomblade because I can use MA for keys
young hamlet
So what’s the reasoning again for opening with Mut instead of Ambush? (When running Master Assassin)
vocal karma
!mut
prisma monolithBOT
Ambush is currently only used from blindside/sepsis proc, not from stealth.
The reasoning is a little complicated, but the most important of them is the difference in combo points on crit (up to 4 vs 3).
Some other factors to consider are increased poison applications, blindside, and doomblade. This is true for all talent combinations and legendaries.
gleaming reef
vendetta buff work with trinkets like shriek wing?
gloomy knoll
vendetta buff work with trinkets like shriek wing?
read the tooltip
gleaming reef
so no?
gloomy knoll
is trinket an ability or auto attack
gleaming reef
neither
gloomy knoll
poggers you answered your own question
gleaming reef
ty, was just double checking. friend said it did but i didn't think it did!
dusk basalt
M+ Assass rogue, Zoldyk or Doomblade
stoic needle
Zoldyck
dusk basalt
even on tyran weeks?
stoic needle
You could run doomblade for plaguefall SD and top on tyrannical but that's the only dungeons I would recommend it in
Zoldyck is good on tyrannical too
dusk basalt
And it's 100% venthyr right
stoic needle
Necrolord is also viable
Just depends on if you want more AOE damage/cleave/cheap cp generation or a more single target damage/a mini bloodlust+ haste or mastery procs
fallow otter
Imagine doing keys this week
dusk basalt
I've been looking for an alt to play on necrolords, not much is good for necro
stoic needle
This poxstorm isn't going to grind itself
dusk basalt
necro for outlaw i think is best too
stoic needle
They're close enough that there is no clear best
Just comes down to what you want to specialize in
fallow otter
If necro was where it is now at launch I would be necro right now
But it wasn't and i have no reason to regrind from fae
dusk basalt
im level 30 kyrian so i gotta change to something
fallow otter
If I was you, I would just can that toon and start again if you really wanna be necro
stoic needle
fallow otter
Level 30 is nothing
dusk basalt
renown 30
stoic needle
You can't be part of a covenant unless you're 60
fallow otter
Ok that makes more sense haha
dusk basalt
lol
fallow otter
You can't be part of a covenant unless you're 60
Threads of fate @50
stoic needle
Swapping covenants isn't that bad tbh
fallow otter
Just remembered
stoic needle
Oh fair enough
stoic needle
Lmao I have been necro venthyr and fae on my rogue
fallow otter
But I don't like that the bridge is burnt
stoic needle
?
fallow otter
Imagine fae was bis after a patch
stoic needle
Takes like 2 days to do the prove your worth quests if you do one the day before reset and the other reset day
dusk basalt
i am going to go venthyr or necro 100% just cant decide which
stoic needle
Well you can try one out and if you don't like it swap instantly
pure moth
On mythic Sun King, my group split us into different groups to pop cds on the cloak of flames.. Do we use vanish when shade spawns or wait till cloak happens?
pure moth
ok
ionic cave
yo how does recuperator work with assa rogue and slice n dice
fallow otter
Otherwise you can use at the best time because that whole phase has a dps requirement also
pure moth
alright thanks
stoic needle
yo how does recuperator work with assa rogue and slice n dice
It's just a flat heal every 2s while slice and dice is active
torn atlas
So Cut to the Chase doesn't interact directly with Recup, but it does keep your SnD going and therefore keeps the heals up.
ionic cave
It's just a flat heal every 2s while slice and dice is active
On sin though snd is active all the time so would it just be permanently healing you or only for 36 seconds
iron orchid
permanently
while snd is up, recup heals you
the way recup works is that it creates a healing instance that heals you every 2s when the conduit is socketed. Recup heals you for 0 when snd isn't up, and for a % of your max hp when snd is up
lament dove
that 36 seconds just tells you the tempo of the healing, 25% per 36 seconds, but it goes on as long as S&D is active
iron orchid
I thought it was a simple concept
I thought so too
ionic cave
No i know how the healing part of it works just didnt know if there was a cd for it in arena or something cause healing 2% for an entire arena can be pretty good
strange python
@surreal leaf hello
fallow otter
Nah essentially is just a 24/7 heal
Assuming you keep the buff up
In beta it ticked for so much that we were pretty much unkillable and when you combine that with being able to global people and sbs dmg we were stupid
feral wasp
hello everyone, I'm a beginner wow player. Can someone help me try to understand why my parse is very low. https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/Z24j1VPFfAYQG8v7/#fight=23&type=damage-done
I am the rogue Psyborc
outer tundra
how good is PI for assa rogue ?
frail fossil
pretty good
dusk basalt
Im no rogue expert but keep in mind you're 64th percentile for your ilvl, even if your overall parse isnt great @feral wasp
outer tundra
i am blessed with it now in raid lol
frail fossil
getting pi 
outer tundra
hunt hate me now
vestal wren
soulbinds:
merry fox
vestal wren
if there is something wrong in the updated chart, pls let me know
but the change is basically to have venthyr on lashing^^
boreal cliff
so I have to do the full scenario of the night bae to have the optimum ?
can't remember which is the first one you unlock there
boreal cliff
alright so I don't need to do the full scenario and just go ape
thanks for the soulbind thingy
vestal wren
koryan is rly strong in m+ with first strike
pseudo granite
!guide
prisma monolithBOT
grim dock
So managed to get my doomblade memory from twisting layer 3 and I'm not even 150 ilvl yet
grave cove
!stats
prisma monolithBOT
**Shadowlands: ** Haste > Versatility => Critical Strike => Mastery
iron orchid
if there is something wrong in the updated chart, pls let me know
It may require more in depth simming but rn Sudden fractures 200 is simming equally to wps for me on patchwerk with necro/heirmir, maybe it will turn out to be better ...
and it wins by a slight amount on Dungeon Slice too
even to LP
vestal wren
interessting
cedar lynx
Hey guys i'm training a bit the rotation in heroic with my rogue, could you please check what i can improve on this pull pls ? https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/Ypxj4DnAVtfvmMXB#fight=3&type=damage-done&source=19
i think i understand the core of the spec but if you see any details that can be improve let me know 🙏
torn atlas
soulbinds:
Shouldn't Theotar be set with Wasteland Pro? Or is the main focus only on the "Best Pick" Binds?
Only thing I could really think of
vestal wren
is wasteland simming higher for him?
torn atlas
Been a week and a few upgrade pieces so maybe I need to sim again.
vestal wren
wasteland did not sim higher for me
put its possible that going double potency is better
wps + lashing
grim dock
necro for life
slender berry
yea double potency sims alot better even in 6 min sims
verbal knot
Is 18% haste enough to play with deeper as venthyr?
arctic axle
Hey guys new to Sin switching over from outlaw. Which guides are considered the best so that i can make sure im learning the right info from the start. Never played Sin before.
iron orchid
!guide
prisma monolithBOT
iron orchid
Hey guys new to Sin switching over from outlaw. Which guides are considered the ...
You can start with those
worldly bridge
Is 18% haste enough to play with deeper as venthyr?
Sim it. Usually yes, but it might be tied to your crit % too.
verbal knot
it does sim a bit higher,just feels kinda slow while in boss fights.30% crit 18% haste atm
arctic axle
You can start with those
Thanks 🙂
frail fossil
p sure i saw a guy having ds simming higher with 13% haste
i'm not sure it's even tied to haste
DS is just really a good talent
even if it slows down the spec
slender berry
i think DS is also auto pick if youre venthyr
frail fossil
i run around 20% haste and like, idk it doesn't feel that much slower compared to vigor
verbal knot
maybe the 6 point vanish envenoms are too much to pass
worldly bridge
it does sim a bit higher,just feels kinda slow while in boss fights.30% crit 18%...
Same it feels weird to me too but I think it's much better than vigor when you have to do mechanics imo. Cuz vigor will make you energy cap faster during downtimes which is bad
frail fossil
also buff all of the finishers u press
worldly bridge
Guys I've got a bunch of questions since yesterday I've raided with Deeper for the first time in ages as Sin
verbal knot
@worldly bridge good point
frail fossil
Same it feels weird to me too but I think it's much better than vigor when you h...
also this tbf, on sludge u can make sure u got low energy before the aoe and when u come back it'll be full ish without capping
slender berry
Same it feels weird to me too but I think it's much better than vigor when you h...
10% faster energy regen but 40% bigger energy cap actually makes vigor "better" for downtime
but its not like that would actually affect your decision
worldly bridge
Playing with Vigor I used to be able to fit 3 envenoms during a shiv, even better if I get blindside and crits
frail fossil
u can still do that with ds
worldly bridge
Playing Ds it's taking forever to get to 5-6cp, do you still respect the Max-1 rule during Shiv/Vendetta/MA window ?
bronze verge
is the ravenholdt guide up to 9.0.5?
worldly bridge
In other words is it better to cast 2 buffed envenoms for 4cp or only one 6cp envenom
odd python
!opener
verbal knot
my 6cp envenoms when critted do about 11k so for sure its better after you vanish
worldly bridge
i guess you can fit 3 envenoms during shiv if you get lucky crits
I can't. During pull even with PI I had to cast Vendetta super early cuz I had not enough energy
My DS opener was mut snd mut Vendetta here cuz energy starved, mut flag garrote shiv, mut mut pool 70 vanish envenom
verbal knot
i dont think the opener changes
worldly bridge
And then trying to figure out if I should 4cp MA buff envenom or 6cp no MA envenom
verbal knot
especially if you bl on pull
worldly bridge
Well I think it does cuz you will lack energy to make it smooth. No bl on pull tho, it was Xymox we save it for the min3 "nothing is happening" phase
slender berry
even if you are "energy" starved you just chil and wait for energy in the opener for the normal opener
even if it may feel bad for you its a dmg loss to just press vendetta cus low energy
verbal knot
yeah thats what i do too
cause you have to flag vendetta
same time
if you vendetta earlier than flag youll lose some deeps and haste after it ends
worldly bridge
I've read somewhere that Vendetta/Flag is a bit better cuz flag deals tons of dmgz now
Might be wrong
worldly bridge
Yeah I forgot about the garrote rupture part before shiv/envenoms fkme
verbal knot
flag does huge damage
worldly bridge
My explanation sucked lol
worldly bridge
Aight I won't use Vendetta for energy starvation with DS then
verbal knot
this ones seems pretty good makes sense to use rupture after flag
worldly bridge
Now fight-related questions
Currently at Xymox Mm. MC ghosts can fuck you up real bad early
You can loose your whole Vendetta window if you are unlucky with portals and these
worldly bridge
Should I delay Vendetta after these ?
limber lion
Yeh, they should line up pretty well honestly
worldly bridge
the ghosts come after your burst window
Not sure about this. This is kinda related to DS too, I'm pretty sure I've got fked some pulls cuz ghosts
And Ds delaying burst by like 5-10sec
worldly bridge
Also, do you use Vendetta on CD or do you delay Vendetta2 to line up with the lust?
slender berry
vendetta falls of at like 27 with the normal opener with no lust
limber lion
Also, do you use Vendetta on CD or do you delay Vendetta2 to line up with the lu...
Cd
slender berry
when does your guild lust?
worldly bridge
3.05 or something after overlaps
limber lion
Def cd then
verbal knot
i thought its better to vendetta before you lust to not cap on energy
slender berry
yea kil timer is below 5 minutes usually
verbal knot
or like not use vendetta on bl
slender berry
so you loose a vendetta if you delay
worldly bridge
Aight
verbal knot
except if the bl is in the opener then i guess you do use it
limber lion
or like not use vendetta on bl
Definitely not. Lust is a great extra deal of damage
worldly bridge
Last question related to this fight, tied to Vendetta usages : what about prepot ?
limber lion
You always want to match up lust if you can.
limber lion
That's why on Sludge you base your cooldowns regarding when you lust
worldly bridge
Do you pot pull with Vendetta or pot during bl even if no cds are up ?
slender berry
doesnt really matter that much honestly
limber lion
Do you pot pull with Vendetta or pot during bl even if no cds are up ?
On pull and second time after 5minutes
slender berry
if your guild is progressing and might get a 5:30 kill or something with half raid dead you might consider pot at pull to get a second one
worldly bridge
My guild is calling wipe whenever 1 or 2 guys are dead they dumb af but that's an other story lol
hexed dock
is it not worth to flag during vendetta?
slender berry
you mean compared to flag shortly before?
or compared to using stuff on cd so it doesnt line up?
slender berry
using flag there is slighty more dps
since you have more haste during vendetta that way
and only loose a bit of dmg on the initial flag
slender berry
also when you use flag in that opener you are at 0 energy usually and so you dont loose a global there
hexed dock
before the first envenom inside vendetta window
fervent pasture
im gonna mutilate my penis
slender berry
its not that big of a difference
fervent pasture
did sub die?
verbal knot
ye
errant delta
why is dredfire bis over skullker?
proven talon
slender berry
mainly the agi
agile geode
guys should i trust simc and go for deeper stratagem or run vigor as guides says?
i feel like deeper stratagem is a bit slowly to use
arctic walrus
Deeper is better when you’re venthyr, yes it is not lying to you. How something feels and the output it produces are not always identical
arctic walrus
You can stack all the haste in the world and you’ll feel on top of the world. It doesn’t mean you’re actually doing more damage
Faster smaller hits or slower bigger hits, it’s a trade off
drowsy zodiac
Is there any weakaura to track cleary doomblade effect?
foggy flint
experiment on the dummy, try 5 minute rotations with vigor and deeper stratagem and check results for yourself
violet rain
Deeper strat is better on paper but I like not waiting 2 seconds between each ability and the other on the opener😂
But totally depends on the fight, if BL at pull then deep strat is definitely the way to go
limber lion
Is there any weakaura to track cleary doomblade effect?
You don't need to track Doomblade. It does nothing
final star
I assume the difference would be kill speed to parse this?
and using shiv properly in opener
iron orchid
I assume the difference would be kill speed to parse this?
If you don't one phase this, parsing will get harder
limber lion
Ye, can't parse on Shriek if you get an intermission
final star
lament mica
u should still be able to get a 98 or so with 1 intermission I'd think
strange python
So I usually go outlaw for keys but was wondering what kind of soulbind/conduit build people are using for keys as venthyr
As assa
slow merlin
I finally found good assa Venthyr m+ guide. https://youtu.be/44hmZbevnrw
strange python
I finally found good assa Venthyr m+ guide. https://youtu.be/44hmZbevnrw
careful, infex gets memed on a little because of some comments in the past
slow merlin
ok, but there is none m+ assa guide right now, no one answered my question about AOE rotation in M+ on this Discord so there are at least some suggestions 🙂
strange python
I mean it's the same spec it's been for a long time
old guides are still valid tbh
lol
slow merlin
but none will tell you when to pop Flagellations, which soulbinds, conduits, legendary, etc.. Conduits are boosting abilities, like CT conduits, changes playstyle. I'm afraid old guides will tell you very little.
strange python
also, tbh, your m+ rotation is still
1 Exit dungeon
2 Open spec tree
3 Press outlaw
4 Enter dungeon
LOL
Big true...started doin that in bfa
covert bronze
dont think AOE has changed since legion, FoKs while keeping up as many Ruptures a poss and if speced then keep up Tempest as well
strange python
you press flag when you have it
like there's a weird thing about current sin tbh, the various small iterations in orders make very little difference overall
just make sure you use your shit
slow merlin
seem assa can be rly good at least for some dungs: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/25#sample=7&boss=12293&dataset=80&bracket=14&class=DPS
warm parcel
There is really no set point you wanna flag
Do you need to kill this pride?
Do you need to kill this one big mob?
lament mica
that is such a random thing to link lol
warm parcel
There are literally 4 conduits 1 of which does anything relevant on aoe and 2 that are completely useless
And playing on aoe is playing on aoe
You wanna dot enemies around you
There is no magical supersecret way of doing m+
Also m+ is a lot of the times pure feelcraft on higher levels
strange python
there's this thing that you notice the more you spend time in these channels, generally speaking most of the higher end crew don't really seem to care that much about the nitty gritty stuff that a ton of other lower end crowd think is the be all end all of specs
as if these tiny variations in order of operations will completely break you, by comparison to "yeah you just didn't USE your shit"
most of the time people struggling with blue parses link logs and they legit just have big gaps in melee uptime
but they're wildly concerned aobut when to use flag
or if they should hold shadowblades
warm parcel
Yea like I can understand the question if there really are no assa m+ players
Its a fair one
strange python
that is true
but really
like the spec is the same now as it was in prepatch
lol
warm parcel
But as you cannot really simulate m+, its always going to be personal way of playing and feelcraftian
strange python
and the prepatch spec is the same as it was at the start of bfa lol
warm parcel
And I dont think youre going to suffer too much if you follow the vid you posted
strange python
infex is a good player
warm parcel
Just whenever you hear "best" or "this is the only way"
slow merlin
well then question is why this Discord exists if not to discuss details. Just do a pin message "Use your shit and you are good" 🙂
strange python
he gets memed on because of some comments
warm parcel
Then you should know that thats not true
strange python
but he's good
lament mica
discord class channels don't exist to regurgitate easy to find info like rotation...if u asked something more specific u would get some nuanced answers back fitting the question
strange python
no that's a fair comment @slow merlin but I'd counter that with understanding the WHY to use a skill when you do is more important than WHEN
frigid kestrel
Tbh out of all the discos this one is one of the majorly more helpful
strange python
and that skill translates into understanding other skills without being told when
warm parcel
Teach a man to fish n so on
frigid kestrel
Like you don’t need wowhead or Icey it’s legit a one stop shop.
I’d also argue that they way this discord works, it more of immediate information vs regurgitated information. 9 times out of 10 after a change it’s here almost immediately vs any other source.
strange python
the only important thing that I saw off the bat when reading the new iteration of flag was instantly "oh so I wana use this at high cp, cool"
generally "whens" are all just about maximising your gcds
warm parcel
And I get people wanting a definite answer when to use flag
But reality is
Sometimes you need to use it to kill pride or your group wipes
Sometimes you wanna save it for after pride dies to truck the boss
Sometimes you just use it to prio down an add in the middle of a pack
strange python
sometimes I feel like a better thing to tell people isn't when to use it, it's what to NOT do
I've already seen a bunch of people hit flag and then have to, or choose to immediately switch target
they lose all this uptime running around
slender urchin
Is there any way to sim on raid bots with PI
warm parcel
Yeah thats not too optimal
strange python
then the flag runs out and they have like 2 stacks
at some point I'm going to have to go do a sub m+ run just to see how many stacks I can bust a nut with
warm parcel
ol felt real good
especially if you get to snipe an enemy that dies just before flag ends
strange python
yeah I was a little worried about switching off of necro and onto venth
coz I play OL a lot
but it's totally fkn fine
warm parcel
I love flag from gameplay standpoint way more than the others
strange python
although, I DO enjoy the playstyle of throwing my bone around
warm parcel
Them simply removing 2nd cast made this spell so much better to use
iron orchid
unkempt belfry
I've been considering setting up a weakaura with that audio "You must whip it" for when I activate flag.
shuriken bomb with flag feels good, but sub in general just feels bad. Maybe next xpac they'll make it playable again. I look forward to those first few months of the xpac 🙂
worldly bridge
That's what happened with Sub early SL too
Pvp was busted and I've heard pve sims in beta was insane cuz Akaari. Then smthng happened and sub vanished
unkempt belfry
Akaari got nerfed super hard (which it did need, to be fair), other specs got buffed and it got left where it is.
compact pumice
Took 10 runs and 3 failed runs!
unkempt belfry
grats! Now you'll get a 226 one from your vault!
compact pumice
The dream
worldly bridge
grats! Now you'll get a 226 one from your vault!
I'd still take it lol
unkempt belfry
upgrade is an upgrade!
worldly bridge
Feels like vault didnt give me anything gud for so fucking long
compact pumice
226 phial would still be one of the higher upgrades for me, even from 220
weak horizon
Lucky you man, I'm at like 25 runs and no trinket yet
heady kayak
I upgraded mine from 203, dumping all that valor was pretty 
karmic crystal
I vendored my phial and then they announced upgrades so I used item restoration only to find out it’s not upgradeable
brisk forge
Cast CT on cd or spam it at certain amount of mobs?
compact pumice
Keep the CT dot up
If more then eight targets it might be better to CT twice in a row with moving to different parts of the group maybe? Dunno how to sim that but might hit more than just 8 with the dot then
burnt star
Ct replace envenom. Except on shiv window
brisk forge
so which is it, got 2 diff answears xd
warm parcel
At a certain point if all you care is aoe you discard envenom
Tho I doubt its happening too much
compact pumice
I was under the understanding that you should rupture rather than envenom
So I would CT > ruptures until next CT
warm parcel
And this is the line the roborogue uses
# Crimson Tempest on multiple targets at 4+ CP when running out in 2s (up to 4 targets) or 3s (5+ targets)
compact pumice
If only 4 or so targets then I might get an envenom off before next ct and everyone has rupture already
But gonna sim it
warm parcel
Like if youre doing m+
warm parcel
It takes plenty globals to just keep stuff dotted and CT inbetween
sick cairn
cause i used to pvp now im gonna do raid
warm parcel
Its very unlikely youll ever get to pure CT spam on mass aoe
sick cairn
this is the image
sleek otter
try and find ur best gear with Top Gear option
sick cairn
oh okay
compact pumice
stat weight is really... unreliable, since it will change with every piece of gear/enchant/gem you use so it will only give you some vague idea of what your bis stats are right at this second. But for actually making choices then stat weight is kind of not useful. Mostly used to prove a point I find 😛
sleek otter
Yea I agree
compact pumice
I can confirm that the raidbots bot did just keep CT dot up and used ruptures in between. It seems to use envenom during shiv only when all targets are ruptured, saw it sometimes just send shiv and not do any envenoms
warm parcel
Youre very much gcd limited unless you just wanna ct spam for some odd aoe implosion reasons
manic crescent
hey guys is assassination better then outlaw in castle nathria now ?
compact pumice
On pure ST it wins yes. Even on 2 target cleave.
strange python
Is assa in tbc a thing?^^
manic crescent
@compact pumice do i have to switch to venthyr for it or can i keep kyrian ?
compact pumice
There is no real need to be venthyr for assassination. For Nathria Venthyr is bis for all specs except some fights where necro is better for Outlaw.
manic crescent
damn now i have to wait an entire week to switch over
manic crescent
wait what ?, i can't switch in 1 week right
its 1 quest "prove your worth" now & then another after weekly reset or am i wrong
compact pumice
if you swap back to the same cov as you have been before
if it's your first time joining the covenant you're up an running in no time
compact pumice
Wait until you have 15-16 renown to do the campaign
strange python
And ur fine
warm parcel
Only going back to a covenant youve left before requires 2 resets yea
manic crescent
am i crafting doomblade legendary for assa ?
lofty shell
for raid ye
manic crescent
thanks for the help guys
rustic whale
!stats
prisma monolithBOT
**Shadowlands: ** Haste > Versatility => Critical Strike => Mastery
shut leaf
is quantum device simming low?
drifting cloud
if its proccing haste during lust it loses most of its value
you need to have more crit than haste
rustic whale
!guide
prisma monolithBOT
compact pumice
**Shadowlands: ** Haste > Versatility => Critical Strike => Mastery
I find this command to be misleading
Stat weights are always misleading sure, but I find that that order is only valid with very poor gear. With closer to bis gear sims would say haste => crit or even crit => haste for some
sullen pagoda
just sim urself
glacial quarry
i was going to say, at good gear, you should just be simming yourself, no?
fathom lynx
most of the time people struggling with blue parses link logs and they legit jus...
Word. We never talk about how much of a dps increase Shadowstep/Sprint/Cloak is. I feel that the better I get at the fundamentals of the rogue class and assassination spec respectively, the more damage I do and less damage I take. Sometimes the fight setup doesn't allow for two cool downs to match up, or I screw up the Shiv window but it doesn't mean that much in the long run when you do the basic stuff right.
Progress raids are especially nothing like simulations (and I think this is general knowledge) - so a different talent setup may give you a dps increase, but they would be a dps loss for someone else (or with a guild that knows the fight).
I went off on a tangent here, but I just wanted to acknowledge your comment.
rustic whale
i believe for now aim for the highest "agility" is better
one you get higher most of your items then start seeking for secondary stats. Note "Haste" is really mandatory for Assassin spec
glacial quarry
Word. We never talk about how much of a dps increase Shadowstep/Sprint/Cloak is....
this, so much this, for pretty much every class too, tbh, guildies always send me their logs asking what's going wrong, they're doing their rotation perfectly, etc
and it's 90% of the time just bad uptime, breaking casts, being a bit too eager with mechanics, etc
compact pumice
Just play well on average and you will do your best on that pull where all the mechanics just avoid you and you can be 100% effective. 🙂
strange python
Killing heroic SLG or Sires will give you a chance at any 220 loot in the vault or do you have to kill them both?
spice spire
Killing heroic SLG or Sires will give you a chance at any 220 loot in the vault ...
If you kill only SLG you have the option of SLG’s 220 options. If you kill both, you get both.
As possible options s
strange python
oh okay thank you very much
worldly bridge
I've checked Herodamage and it says for m+ as venth we should run Nadija with Exacting prep
BUT is this accounting you prepot every m+ boss / use +20 agi food ?
lofty shell
If you kill only SLG you have the option of SLG’s 220 options. If you kill both,...
i got dreadfire vessel in my vault last week and only did 9/10 hc
worldly bridge
In that case i think it would be better to just go for 2nd best soulbind which is theotar. Or even 3rd cuz i suck at playin with the umbrella proc
drowsy parcel
when you kill any boss once you unluck the possibility of getting loot from it in vault
it doesnt have to be the same week
spice spire
^
compact pumice
when you kill any boss once you unluck the possibility of getting loot from it i...
Does that go for mythic progression? Some people have told me that all 226 bosses can drop in vault even if you haven’t killed em. I kinda doubt it for some reason though.
drowsy parcel
as far as i know, yes
glacial quarry
BUT is this accounting you prepot every m+ boss / use +20 agi food ?
exacting prep doesn't include potions, iirc
worldly bridge
yeh i realized that when doublechecking it. But if its using 20agi food to be better than double potency then it sucks
spice spire
Does that go for mythic progression? Some people have told me that all 226 bosse...
From my understanding the first 8 bosses were fair game no matter prog. The only loot locked was SLG and sire.
onyx wind
just play tea party.......
glacial quarry
you can change the food used for your sims, iirc
onyx wind
Ive only ever gotten loot from bosses ive killed on mythic