assassination

[stoic needle]

i feel like sin is fine for council bc boss damage is what actually matters

[strange python]

attendant dead in 4 secs its wasted af

!opener

[tropic echo]

me not being able to decide on a cov

[stoic needle]

imagine not being venthyr

[prisma crescent]

[iron orchid]

[stoic needle]

[ebon bramble]

necrolord is where its at

[stoic needle]

sure if you want to be stinky and ugly

instead of fashionable and sophisticated

[ebon bramble]

imagine 10 stacks of serrated bone spike on a boss

its like getting hit with an ambush every 3 sec!

[scenic kelp]

Edgy venthyrs

[knotty sparrow]

i really hate that Nadjia is the best venthyr soulbind for both Outlaw and Assasination. means i have to switch conduits constantly.

[ebon bramble]

imagine aoeing/cleaving with venthyr

[stoic needle]

no you don't? you put CTO in the 2nd potency slot and run 2 potency for outlaw and dauntless duelist for sin

[limber lion]

save me from this slg suffering

[knotty sparrow]

that would mean only 1 potency for sin

[stoic needle]

yes, the bis potency for sin is lashing scars

[knotty sparrow]

lashing scars no well-placed steel?

[frigid kestrel]

For st that’s the way to go

[knotty sparrow]

huh ok

[stoic needle]

dauntless duelist + lashing > wps lashing

venthyr is actually pretty great for multispec

[knotty sparrow]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/dmKPZGYNtpMvvqkvZPMShQ

i need more haste i think

[stoic needle]

15% haste is fine for venthyr

[knotty sparrow]

6606 kinda low though right?

only 190 doomblade

[stoic needle]

not really. hold on

if anything you have super low crit

pvp gear isnt the best for sin imo

[halcyon zealot]

yeah this covenant stuff has had me losin sleep the past week, i’m NF now, soon progging M SLG so i’ll prob wanna be necro outlaw, then for sire ill wanna be venth assa

so much renown farm that i might just say fuck it and stay fae

[prisma crescent]

@knotty sparrow Curious to see what your stat weight for crit is

[stoic needle]

you dont really need to min max covenants for every fight

just pick whichever covenant is your favorite and focus on optimizing your play

[desert ether]

Saw this and cracked up soo hard.

[stoic needle]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/83Tr3zPPKtExasVTqa7qfN

[halcyon zealot]

yeah, i mean i’m doing 6.7/6.9k on most sludge pulls as NF assa, don’t even know how much a gain venth would be really in practice

getting to 4th pillar /wall slam

[knotty sparrow]

jeez yeah i need more crit

[stoic needle]

it's a pretty decent 2-3% upgrade but it's really not that big of a deal

getting your pillars set up perfectly and timing your cooldowns properly is more important

[prisma crescent]

@stoic needle DS simming better than Vigor for you?

[halcyon zealot]

yeah that was something that happened on pull ten or 20 tho i’m not worried about that, lookin at marginal gains now but i’m just too attatched to soulshape etc, idk this why i’m losing sleep lol

[stoic needle]

yeah man you want to drop some of that vers and pick up more crit for sure. it affects your cp generation a lot. 15% haste is fine tho

[stoic needle]

yeah by about 50 dps

[prisma crescent]

Aight time to put raidbots to work, Vigor feels great but if its a large gain ill swap

[stoic needle]

it's usually better with about 15% haste as venthyr or 25% haste as non venth

[prisma crescent]

I have almost 24% haste

[halcyon zealot]

my assa set has like 16% haste (NF) and vigor sims like 45ish dps higher for me lmfao feelsbad

[untold solar]

!guide

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
RH: https://www.ravenholdt.net/guides/assassination-rogue-guide-shadowlands-raid-dps/
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide

[strange python]

where can I find the openers with Subterfuge, MA talent etc

[stoic needle]

i love sloooooow deeper strat sin

[prisma crescent]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/rLKR6WHnRC4x6eXoGzVMJT Omg actually +70 dps

[keen tree]

for m+ is haste still the most desirable secondary? Guide says yes (https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-stat-priority) but this infextious gaming video i just watched says its the lowest priority (and to gem for crit). Thoughts?

[stoic needle]

#assassination message

[stoic needle]

NO

DO NOT LISTEN TO INFEXIOUS

haste crit are your stat priorities for M+

[keen tree]

Thanks man 🙂 appreciate it.

Oh that link you posted above @stoic needle is very useful! Now need to figure out how to bookmark it in discord lol

[prisma crescent]

I probably want to be running DS during Sludge prog anyway so thats incredible

[burnt star]

Im kinda curious as how some assa rogue spec for mythic sludge. With more log coming. It seems elaborate planning with vigor is getting some nice attention. Probly cose of higher damage during pillar

And thats from venthyr assa

(Not talkinf about the 1 log with 4 pi)

[icy crater]

ngl necro looking better and better every day

either necro or say fae hmm..

[burnt star]

Ngl. I kinda love flag

[austere condor]

is sin out performing outlaw atm?

[burnt star]

Also playing assa in key with M.A. and coming out of stealth with nightstalker + mfd'ed CT. On 4+ is fun!

In m+ no

But we burst on boss

[austere condor]

ST only?

[burnt star]

Yep

And im huntsman altimor too

Since the damage is like double dipping

[keen tree]

oh jeez now i have to unlearn the rotation infexious is sharing too!

[austere condor]

first retail rogue, having trouble finding a smooth transition between all specs lol

[sinful island]

what's the correct rotation?

[austere condor]

got 2.1 as sub spec, do pretty well in m+ as outlaw, but sin looks like fun

[keen tree]

I dont know but i do know that what is shared here is different: #assassination message

[distant swan]

and for raids ?

[prisma crescent]

Why isn't that post from Ceverion pinned already?

[austere condor]

so sin will out do outlaw on a sire fight?

[distant swan]

i checked its haste crit too @stoic needle in raid

rank 1 warcraftlog pasassin chinese rogue

[shy dust]

depends for what youre asking

which is better for prog I would say sin due to bringing better damage for p3

Outlaw will do more overall though

[austere condor]

yea, we are working on p3 on H sire now

[violet hemlock]

Should you hold shiv for vendetta + vanish?

[halcyon zealot]

not for more than a couple seconds probably, i’m sure there’s some math on it somewhere though

[humble socket]

Is there a spreadsheet or something that lists everythign that is/is not cloakable in CN?

[solar flicker]

12 seconds iirc

[shy dust]

Soon ™️

[halcyon zealot]

it’ll be out just in time for the next raid

[humble socket]

Okay i guess ill ask for the one im looking for, Is Night Hunter cloakable

[shy dust]

no

[violet hemlock]

its physical

[humble socket]

👍

[violet hemlock]

also not dodgable... I had to for science

This spec is a lot harder than outlaw

[flat crater]

what soulbind for assa venthyr

[violet hemlock]

Is macroing Vanish to Vendetta a bad practice?

[midnight quiver]

@flat crater I would say Najda. Mini bloodlust every 40 seconds.

[safe barn]

if im running ma

which soulbind should i run with it?

[drowsy zodiac]

Is it ok not to have phial of putrefaction already or not see it drop¿?

All of em are pf

[icy haven]

i feel your pain

[fossil slate]

i did like 11 PFs today and finally got the Phial drop

after 3 of the ooze trinkets >.>

[stoic needle]

both nadjia and theotar are fine

[safe barn]

im nf

forgot to tell that

[stoic needle]

niya st korayn M+

niya herbs for tyrannical

over korayn FS

[safe barn]

thanks

[safe barn]

what is the effect of herbs when u are a dps class?

[royal lantern]

without sounding like an asshole, but its Heroic, class/spec doesnt make any difference there

[stoic needle]

due to the most spaghetti code in the history of gaming, we get herbs proc even without running the recuperator conduit. with SND up we get about 60% uptime

[pearl mauve]

Been playing sub from start of SL and tried out outlaw when i felt underpowered. done 2x hc clears where there is always a sin that murders the dps meters. what has happend to sin this week?

[stoic needle]

bug fixes, legendary buffs and the addition of CTTC

[violet hemlock]

So any reason Is ee most ass rogues on wc logs running hands over shoulders for Doomblade? Thought they had the same stat weight

[stoic needle]

we're one of the top ST dps specs now

[stoic needle]

because of SLG mythic shoulders

[burnt star]

Rookie number. Thats only 19 pf. It took me 30 to get mine (see one drop) and it wasnt even my drop. I had to ask a friend to come

[violet hemlock]

aaah I see

But If I dont think Im seeing mythic generals this tier is shoulders better?

[stoic needle]

i saw 3 phials in 8 plaguefalls

[pearl mauve]

even hc geared sin are killing it ST

[stoic needle]

it's not better because you're capped at 226 for the non legendary piece regardless

just equivalent

[violet hemlock]

Well I thought since kt hands...

[stoic needle]

which are also 226

[violet hemlock]

Good to know ty!

[pearl mauve]

So boys, what leggo? 😉

[burnt star]

Celerity

🤣

[pearl mauve]

ouff

[stoic needle]

[burnt star]

Ill be a bad boi and say. Look at pin

In m+ m.a is lot of fun

[balmy condor]

So naughty of you to use the provided resources

[pearl mauve]

so doommiester ? ^^

[balmy condor]

[twilit quiver]

does mindnumbing do anything on council?

[balmy condor]

Makes them auto a little slower I guess

The cast speed doesn’t work

[twilit quiver]

Could be good for that gargoyle thing

[balmy condor]

CoW is stronger if you have a lock

[stoic needle]

didn't koji say they stack

[balmy condor]

Regardless though it doesn’t hurt to run it

[balmy condor]

I’m not sure, but if it works like other CC’s then it would just take the strongest one

They are different id’s though

So maybe?

Idk fuck numbing and CoW tbh

[modest glen]

man i wish swapping covenants wasnt such a pain

venthyr looking sweet

[balmy condor]

They don’t do much and they’re super fucking jank

Just put on numbing and pray to the spaghetti

[limber lion]

I've only heard that they don't stack and only the stronger is applied, like Jannick here said earlier

[weary marten]

HC Sludgefist, which legendary guyys ?

[sleek sparrow]

how does mind numbing work on Sludgefist if he's already a

[balmy condor]

I actually got chills

Shits kinda weeeeeeiiiiiird

[limber lion]

[livid temple]

Does mind numbing actually work on sludgefist/ bosses?

[balmy condor]

The auto slow portion seems to, yes

[livid temple]

Oh okay, that's cool idk why but part of me just thought it wouldn't, but then if warlocks can curse bosses why wouldn't it XD

[balmy condor]

Probably MA or Doomblade

[weary marten]

MA requires a specific talent set ?

subterfuge ?

[pearl mauve]

how much haste is cool for switching to Deeper? is simming it king?

[weary marten]

yes

[sleek sparrow]

any haste just sim

[balmy condor]

Would run EP nightstalker mfd with MA

[shy dust]

They stack

[livid temple]

I'm at 19.5% haste right now.... I wish I could drop my 16% versa and boost my 25% Crit... Getting a Muti Crit feels pretty spicy

[shy dust]

His base swing speed is 1.5

[balmy condor]

Pog

0.3 second swing time difference

[shy dust]

.3 could be life or death who knows

And it’s not like crippling poison has any use in raid

[livid temple]

So what I'm hearing is that rogue DOES bring raid utility because it makes bosses swing slightly slower than usual... All those rogues better stop crying on the forums that they have no raid utility now. EXPOSED

[lament mica]

curse of weakness does that but its better

[livid temple]

Monks, DH and DK wish they brought that much utility!

[lament mica]

rip lol

[livid temple]

But do they stack?

[shy dust]

But they stack so

Raid utility

[livid temple]

If mind numbing stacked per rogue, 16 rogues 2 heal 2 tank

Boss never swings

[halcyon zealot]

you might be on to something with that one edward

[livid temple]

Forget the healers even, If the boss doesnt attack no one does right

https://c.tenor.com/7HUogy7rXs4AAAAM/feel-me-think-about-it.gif

[balmy condor]

I think I saw on a 5 minute kill, numbing prevented 4 autos

[shy dust]

4 autos can make a difference

One brez saved

[halcyon zealot]

maybe one of those autos woulda massive dmg’d ur tank, now ur a life saver

[livid temple]

@balmy condor that's huge, if the tank needed to walk their goldfish and feed their tamagotchi that probably saved their lives not gonna lie

[ruby ingot]

I discovered something, you can save activating slice and dice until after you vanish if you want(after flagellation has been activated), and it will flag crit the target and not remove you from stealth. So basically you can get one free crit without losing a gcd during the master assassin window. I’m not sure if this is actually worth it or not but I thought I would share and see wat people think

That’s the MA talent btw

Also.. I’m curious if running maim mangle potency as second potency would sim higher than DD if you are using doom blade lego. Because of the 14% increased mutilate dmg

[balmy condor]

I’m sorry, I don’t think I understand

[real inlet]

!oh

[prisma monolith]

Mutilate requires a dagger in both hands, this makes using a non dagger weapons undesirable.

[balmy condor]

So we’re using MA the talent

[limber lion]

He's talking about using SND during the stealth portion of vanish

[balmy condor]

And you want to vanish, then cast snd in stealth, which won’t pull you out

And then continue?

[ruby ingot]

Ya basically

[balmy condor]

Don’t do that

[ruby ingot]

Go try on a dummy

[strong tide]

how much haste is recommended before you go mfd over vigor?

in m+

[balmy condor]

Like 0%

You can run mfd whenever you want in m+

No breakpoints or anything

[ruby ingot]

The thing I was thinking was, why do you need to activate snd so soon after you open, this way you can make most use of the crit window

[balmy condor]

Cause it does a lot of damage

Snd is our strongest finisher

[ruby ingot]

Not in first few seconds of the fight tho

[wide bolt]

its more important to get SnD rolling asap then to get one crit buffed envenom

[ruby ingot]

I’m just talking about very beginning f

[balmy condor]

Yes

Those seconds you don’t have snd up are lost dps

[ruby ingot]

Since after you don’t need to activate snd again

[balmy condor]

So you have to make up for it

And casting snd later doesn’t make up for it

[ruby ingot]

Kinda hard to say that I think

It’s just like 5 or 6 seconds maybe without snd

[sleek sparrow]

A single crit of flag isn't gonna be worth delaying for

[wide bolt]

Its not hard to say when opener sims were run and likely checked that

and found it to be a loss

[ruby ingot]

Sims don’t actually do that shit they are weak compared to the power of the Schwartz

[cobalt flame]

• if u are lucky like me you will not crit even with +50% from ma so no reason to hold snd

[sleek sparrow]

Esp when you'd be trading a flag crit for an envenom more than likely, so it's even less worth

[ruby ingot]

Well on my char I have like 30% crit I think so MA brings it to 80% so I Dk

That’s why I’m saying it’s hard to know for sure

[sleek sparrow]

It's really not hard to guess that it'd be a loss

Flag stacks critting isn't that important

[timber gale]

So now that I’m 216 ilvl & have a good grip on assassin I decided to try out poison bomb over CT in m+ and was pretty surprised to see myself topping dmg overall (where previously I’d top boss dmg but not in packs)

Was I just hilariously misjudging how good PB is M+

Or is it maybe that CT loses value in tyrannical weeks where packs instadie anyways

[ruby ingot]

Ok so forget wat I said then I just noticed that messing around and wanted to share

But wat about maim mangle as second nadja potency with doomblade lego

[sleek sparrow]

Not better than DD

[ruby ingot]

But was it simmed by you or did you see it somewhere

[sleek sparrow]

I've simmed it myself, and whispyr has even said it's not worth

[wide bolt]

seen assassination climbing up this tier list from https://mplus.subcreation.net/
is it just people playing it way more after 9.0.5 or is assassination gonna be the new play?

[limber lion]

Assa received major buffs and bug fixes in 9.0.5

[stoic needle]

Sounds like you just aren't keeping CT enough, your overall should be lower with pb vs CT

[wide bolt]

yea just wasnt sure if it was climbing cause its good or just people trying it out @limber lion

[ebon bramble]

wtf is this shit

assassination A tier?

[wide bolt]

wondering if other people had better success

[ebon bramble]

fake news

[stoic needle]

People catching on to what we've known for months already 🥱

[ebon bramble]

real tier list

[sleek sparrow]

for me personally its an 87~ dps loss vs DD and still worse than a lower ilvl wps with double potency :^)

[weary marten]

so i read a discussion a bit higher, but i didn't get when we're supposed to Snd in M+ opener ? Garrote garrote garrote => snd ?

[stoic needle]

Almost none of those buffs and bug fixes we got affected m+ tbh besides doomblade becoming a bit more viable and the envenom fix which is pretty minor for aoe

[stoic needle]

[timber gale]

@stoic needle that’s probably true? I’ve found I’m much more able to keep up garrote and Rupture in multi target when not also having to build & reapply CT every 12(?)s, so it’s very possible I’ve just been playing CT poorly / getting better at other parts of the spec

[stoic needle]

After applying 3 garottes, ct and at least 1 rupture

[ruby ingot]

Wow Kane why so hostile it’s just harmless discussion mate

[sleek sparrow]

wot

[weary marten]

thanks ! that's kinda what i was doing

[ruby ingot]

I don’t have doomblade or anything and don’t know custom apis so I was asking around

[sleek sparrow]

you asked a question and im givin you exact numbers

[ebon bramble]

how bad is subterfuge in single target?

[ruby ingot]

Then why give cunty smiley face kek

[sleek sparrow]

thats my normal smile i post

[stoic needle]

You're probably applying too many high cp ruptures. Don't be afraid to apply 2 or 3cp ruptures, you should be able to maintain gar rup and ct pretty easily

[ruby ingot]

Well it’s kinda cunty to me shrug

[sleek sparrow]

maybe you just sensitive

[stoic needle]

About 80 dps worse than MA for me

[ruby ingot]

Guess gotta go back to my therapist

[sleek sparrow]

[ebon bramble]

oof sadge

i wonder if MA is actually decent for M+ lol

[ruby ingot]

Prob not anymore I would guess

Cause you can just take talent and peoples crit is gonna keep scaling and you can spread doomblade bleed on mobs

[timber gale]

Thanks! This is almost definitely it - I’m trying to apply like, 4-5+ cp ruptures which leaves me really starved for gcds, I’ll try changing my approach

[modest glen]

MA gets so confusing now, meaning talent or lego?

[stoic needle]

If it makes you feel any better I was doing the same thing until like a week or two ago and I've got Ksm

[ebon bramble]

i meant the talent

for 50% crit

is that any good ffor M+?

[wide bolt]

It would be if subterfuge wasnt a lot better

the multiple garrotes that hit really hard and give energy back every pack is really strong

[timber gale]

LMAO I also have it and just uhhhh did not know lmfao

[dense axle]

we run Zold's for M+ sin with Subt build, right?

[timber gale]

Subterfuge feels so good in M+ I’d have a hard time playing anything else tbh

[balmy condor]

It’s o-k ish

You can make a build with it that isn’t awful

But I definitely wouldn’t recommend it

[dense axle]

I did a plague last night with Sin. Finally got my Phial. Did 5.1k overall, but I was using my 190 doom

normally hit about 5.3-5.5 with OL

chock half that up to inexperience and half to wrong lego. Also it was just a 13 so stuff wasnt living that long

[ebon bramble]

good enough for me lol

but honestly i like subterfuge too much in aoe. but wish it wasnt so trash in single target

[lofty yarrow]

CT ? 🙂 what’s CT ? Been invloved in outlaw

[dense axle]

crimson tempest

[ebon bramble]

so basically outlaw>assassin i see 🤔

[limber swallow]

the only other viable talent in the bottom row.

[lofty yarrow]

Aham AOE thingie then

Ty ty

[dense axle]

I mean to say that it's actually close for your average scrub key

and significantly easier on my wrist VS OL

[balmy condor]

You can make HB work

[limber swallow]

I mean, that initial big hit is great. How would that work though in sustained AOE? You need a ton of crit and then FOK => Rupture, FOK => Rupture (or CT if it's not up)? Wouldn't you only be getting like 1 stack?

oh wait, you wouldn't have CT, lol

[dense axle]

run MA lego with it for even huger crit? :D

[balmy condor]

You would only get 1 stack, but you’re not wasting any stacks by using at 1-2 stacks

The damage of 1 stacks is the same from 0-1 as 19-20

So you’re still getting the benefit

[dense axle]

you get the benefit as long as you don't let it sit at 20 stacks

[limber swallow]

isn't that just 4% dps on average in sustained AOE? I guess that plus the initial burst might outweigh CT

[stoic needle]

i didn't know that, i thought you had to let it stack up for it to be a benefit

lmao i want to try HB now

[balmy condor]

It’s definitely worse than CT, but you can make it work

[ebon bramble]

its worse

can make it work

unable to compute

[balmy condor]

How is that unable to compute

[limber swallow]

I was playing around with it and poisoned katar... the opening burst feels amazing, but after that, I got sad, lol.

[balmy condor]

Sin is worse than outlaw in m+, but you can make it work

Does that also not compute

[ebon bramble]

unable to compute

[balmy condor]

I see

[wide bolt]

its suboptimal but its not like your taking the talent and losing dps over not having a talent

[balmy condor]

Unfortunate

[ebon bramble]

suboptimal? ugh trash

lolol

venthyr in m+ as ass? ugh trash

wasnt HB a legendary in legion?

[limber swallow]

yep

[ebon bramble]

i wonder if the legendaries we have now are going to turn into talents

[balmy condor]

In prepatch bfa it actually stacked with HB

[ebon bramble]

lvl 65 talents

lol

[balmy condor]

So you got the legendary and HB

[ebon bramble]

O_O

[balmy condor]

Was nutty

[ebon bramble]

double?

o damnnnn

[pallid galleon]

So you play assa in m+ or so you switch to outlaw?

[slender trail]

looking at the opener someone outlined here and the one in the guides, it says flag before before vendetta, but i also saw someone here mention how you want the initial hit of flag to be in the vendetta window because it hits so hard. did we determine either way?

[balmy condor]

Vend after

But the difference is so so minor

[balmy condor]

Whatever you prefer

[pallid galleon]

I prefer assa but I'm afraid it sucks in m+

[balmy condor]

It doesn’t

[ebon bramble]

i like ass more than outlaw playstyle wise

[limber lion]

I prefer tits myself

[ebon bramble]

but im trash so being suboptimal is fine

[ebon bramble]

😏

[drifting light]

Sin been slapping hard on 15 - 20 keys

[wise fiber]

So. I got IQD 220. And it shows a 100 dps increase. Over hateful or sins 213. Im just wondering if it’s not just a simbait. I know we looking over stat increase but it’s actually good in practice ?

[balmy condor]

It can mess up sometimes

[limber lion]

It's pretty bait

[balmy condor]

But it’s fine in dungeons

And it’s okay in raids tbh

[limber lion]

You need to get a weak aura for it or it's rip

[balmy condor]

I think the hate is pretty overhyped

[sleek sparrow]

if you want like

[stoic needle]

I would love to have it for dungeons

[wide bolt]

the hate has kinda carried over from when people first got it and just slammed it without realizing how it worked imo

[stoic needle]

But I don't think I will be farming it

[limber lion]

You're overhyped

[minor anchor]

When you sim IQD, set it to 50% for raid. That's a more realistic sim.

[modest glen]

haste/crit for doomblade right?

[balmy condor]

[sleek sparrow]

i enjoy my 220 IQD

[limber lion]

jk

[wide bolt]

but as someone whos had it ive saved someone from dieing so many times by just popping the box and potentially prevented a wipe

[balmy condor]

Yeh

[balmy condor]

[drifting light]

Rocking it

[limber lion]

It is pretty silly for very short fights

[drifting light]

For raids is way trickier tho

[limber lion]

It will pop off like crazy

[sleek sparrow]

i saw Ceverions #1 H arti parse last night

wanted to try to catch up to it

my brain lapsed and i forgot to reapply poisons before pull

[limber lion]

I believe in you!

[sleek sparrow]

70% uptime on deadly poison

[limber lion]

As long as you don't use PI's

That's a no-no

[sleek sparrow]

actual suffering

the chance is gone for now

ill settle with my idiot 96

[limber lion]

I have so many weak auras that I never forget or miss anything

[sleek sparrow]

i need to make my poison one 1000% bigger

[limber lion]

Like whenever a ready check happens I get a status-box thingy showing whether I have food/flask/sharpening stones or not

[sleek sparrow]

like my old soulstone one for my lock

[limber lion]

And I have a 5min reminder on poisons before they expire just in case

[icy crater]

its worth to refresh dots even outside pandemic window before pillar on sludge right?

[near pilot]

the debuff shiv puts on the target ID, anyone know it?

[icy crater]

I'm assuming you don't lose much

[tribal marlin]

gonna be tought without a similar or lower kill timer tbh

[sleek sparrow]

yeah you ideally dont want to drop dots or reapply them during pillar

i mean my kill time is 3:05

[icy crater]

on mythic?

[sleek sparrow]

no

[icy crater]

oh

[sleek sparrow]

talking about H arti

but for the pillar thing yes mythic

Cev jfc how many H kills have you done this week

[tender folio]

Guys quick question, is assa playable without much haste when it comes to myth+ for example or it will perform badly ?

[limber lion]

I did a few boost runs and a few runs testing out different setups

I think 4 full runs and like the occasional boss here and there

Actually no, 4 full runs up to SLG

And a shift of 11 Sire kills

Then Viklund invited me to a raid with him, which was not worth it

Would not recommend

It was so aids

He just took viewers from his stream to give him PI

And didn't look at their logs/previous performance

So they played like crap and were there just to boost Viklund's score

[sleek sparrow]

oof

[burnt star]

@limber lion what you think about going elaborate planning + vigor for sludge mythic. I know logs are still computing with more and more assa killing it

[stoic needle]

@hollow escarp

[burnt star]

But it seems to perform better. Then regular st build.

[fleet anchor]

Poisons are melee abilities

[sleek sparrow]

i got a rank 12 on hungering, then got sad when i found out i got a PI on pull

[limber lion]

I honestly don't know what to think about it. In 9.0 it was either EP+Vig or EP+NS+MFD

Now there's barely any EP NS MFD builds, not sure why

[burnt star]

Ya not sure why no mfd for sludge

[limber lion]

I wonder what the logic is behind going vigor/ep

[burnt star]

I wanted to try it for pillar phase

Well probly lacking energy without the free refresh from.ambuah

[limber lion]

Like you'd think that you want to maximize the 12s of vulnerability

Maybe it's about maximizing Flag damage or something

[burnt star]

Their flag damage isnt that higher then mine

(If i dont compare the guy with pi every pillar)

[limber lion]

Yeaah, screw the externals

[hollow escarp]

[stoic needle]

It's just weird

[hollow escarp]

for a second I thought you were stalking my logs because for some reason tonight I've been opening with garrote in MA

too many keys

I swear

[limber lion]

Koji's writing an essay

[burnt star]

Did u try nightstalker CT out of stealth with m.a leggo

[balmy condor]

It’s meh

[limber lion]

I like the NS concept for the first gcd of the pull

[fleet anchor]

Regarding the whole SnD discussion, let's just break this down simply.
Melee AAs are, on average ~15% of your damage.
SnD increases AAs by 50%, meaning 33% of that 15% is from SnD. SnD is worth 5% damage.
So when you say "it's worth not having SnD for 6-8 seconds" you are saying "it's worth not having 5% damage for 8 seconds to have a crit envenom in MA"
People just tend to underestimate the damage from AAs.

[limber lion]

But after that it's mehh

[burnt star]

For farming pf 12

It was fun haha

[balmy condor]

[burnt star]

Shit died fast enough

[balmy condor]

Koji with the assist

[fleet anchor]

Just replace SnD tooltip with "you deal 5% more damage"

[balmy condor]

Pog

[fleet anchor]

And it will make you feel better

[burnt star]

But yam felt meh on 16 and higher

[limber lion]

Preach

[hollow escarp]

people actually cry about snd in opener?

[raven hollow]

Do you guys run PB or CT for Sire?

[limber lion]

It feels awful to press so it's understandable

[fluid moth]

besides snd is actually really nice now that envenom refreshes it throw it up once and you dont even have to worry about it almost ever

[balmy condor]

Pb for sure

[limber lion]

Always PB.

[serene basin]

anyone here have a WA to show when you get PI? i know its a silly request

[fleet anchor]

The reason we use SnD before Rupture is because when you look at the lost DPS from AAs, it's definitely bigger than losing 1 Rupture tick

[raven hollow]

Just thumb twiddling for p1 then fair enough

[ionic fox]

Technically S&D is now our strongest finishing move... most damage per cast.

[hollow escarp]

wouldn't go that far

[balmy condor]

I can make one quick once I get back to my pc, should no one link one

[fleet anchor]

Like my initial Rupture tick before Vendetta is only like 600 damage, which is worth less than 2 seconds of non-SnD AA DPS on average.

[balmy condor]

Dm me as a reminder in a couple mins

[serene basin]

you're an angel ❤️

[balmy condor]

No u

[hollow escarp]

have one as well but I closed wow

it does a BAM

[limber lion]

I actually had one but lost it when my UI reset a month ago

[serene basin]

i like that sound, reminds me of GTFO

[limber lion]

But haven't missed it tbh

[balmy condor]

Haha auto go brrrr

[magic thorn]

is it worth it to cast crimson tempest on single target in m+? like bosses ?

[balmy condor]

Maintain outside of shiv, yes

[serene basin]

i've been running some M+ and the priest is givin it to me sometimes in prides

[limber lion]

Aww, cute

[magic thorn]

ok, thanks whispyr

[serene basin]

so i know if i pop vendetta or not

[limber lion]

So if you get PI, you don't?

Or the other way around

[serene basin]

ye

depends on the leggo im using also, if im with zolddycks i pop vendetta

so i get it back on last 30% of bosses

prides are good when they are fast

[halcyon zealot]

wait, y’all get PIs??

[balmy condor]

Yeh

[limber lion]

No

[serene basin]

ye

[hollow escarp]

[halcyon zealot]

https://tenor.com/view/kenny-were-the-millers-wait-you-guys-are-getting-paid-will-poulter-gif-15947359

[limber lion]

Fuck PI's

[serene basin]

lel

[limber lion]

PI's for pussies

[hollow escarp]

TRUE

[limber lion]

[hollow escarp]

look at that guy on council

[pallid galleon]

Which covenant do you use as assa for mythic plus?

[hollow escarp]

15 PI and got 4.9k dps

[fleet anchor]

Not having PI is the 200 IQ choice because if you get PIs on logs and you don't get R1 everyone will meme you anyway

[balmy condor]

Venthyr or necro are both good

[limber lion]

This is the #1 reason

[serene basin]

venthyr is pretty usefull

[hollow escarp]

[limber lion]

You can suck at the game if you don't get PI's

You can't suck at the game if you get 15 PI's

[dense axle]

12 buffs lol

[hollow escarp]

I don't enjoy council btw

tried both sin and outlaw

[icy crater]

But if the new external buff column wasn't there.. PI me all day long bb

[pallid galleon]

Okay cool. I'm night fae right now because the wowhead guide said so,but I don't like the ability

[stoic needle]

WTB separate PI leaderboard kthxbye

[serene basin]

NF priests are so cool

[fleet anchor]

Also if you don't have PI you can just make up whatever random number you want for what you REALLY would do

[icy crater]

true

you do like 30% more with PI anyways

[fleet anchor]

Like "omg I'm all star rank 29 without PI, I'd be rank 5+ EASY with PI. EEEEEASSSY"

[arctic cloud]

Completely not assa related however it kind of is. Is there an addon out there that displays ALL combat texts/numbers

[fleet anchor]

So basically I'm rank 5

In my heart

[icy crater]

yeah and rank 5 is like

[arctic cloud]

I.e rupture numbers. Garrottes etc

[icy crater]

so close to rank 1 you're basically rank 1

[fleet anchor]

Exactly

[icy crater]

and if you're rank 1 you're the best rogue in the world so

[balmy condor]

Msbt

[dense axle]

100% truf

[hollow escarp]

or NameplateSCT

[arctic cloud]

Just type that into curse?

[limber lion]

PI is just a stress increase. Like you're expected to do good when you get PI

#notworth

[balmy condor]

Miks scrolling battle text I think

[arctic cloud]

Thanks bud

[fleet anchor]

I mean I know I'm the best Rogue in the world but I'm trying not to get PIs to give everyone else a chance tbh. I'm nice like that.

[balmy condor]

Something like that

[hollow escarp]

it's like when I say in voice, I'm gonna pop cds on pride and I only have 6k dps on it

[fleet anchor]

Like if I got PIs and played perfectly and had better gear I would be R1 every time easy

[limber lion]

How kind of you Koji

[icy crater]

Like, I could join limit, but I want the other guilds to have a chance

[dense axle]

@fleet anchor dont forget not having to do mechanics

[icy crater]

It just wouldn't be fair

[fleet anchor]

Yeah true Seawolf

If I didn't have to like run out every time

EVERY TIME

[limber lion]

And having a team of other R1's as well

Team is the biggest hurdle.

You can improve your gear, you can improve your rotation

But you can't affect other people

[fleet anchor]

Ceverion does parse better than me but I'm sure that's due to factors 100% outside of my control.

[icy crater]

How can you have more R1's if there's only 1 spot at the top of the dps leaderboards 🤔

[limber lion]

well tbh, my team's have been pretty stoked. I parsed pretty bad on my boost runs

so you're not 100% wrong

[fleet anchor]

On a more serious note, I do really enjoy parsing. Hard to know what to feel about the PI stuff.

I don't really plan on getting it, so just try to do my best without it

[limber lion]

Yeah, gotta be honest. I enjoy raiding and improving my score and pushing for a higher rank and optimizing my character.

But I get smack for it for doing it in heroic.

[fleet anchor]

lol

Heroic is the best place to parse 😄

[limber lion]

Just wiped 3 more hours on SLG

190 wipes down now boys

[hollow escarp]

[icy crater]

damn

[crimson palm]

[hollow escarp]

btw, how many wipes did you guys had on council>

[fleet anchor]

Mythic still a little too early to parse whore on

For us anywya

[crimson palm]

its never too early

[fleet anchor]

Haha

[hollow escarp]

this was our best pull

[ionic fox]

@limber lion you in outlaw prison for the fight like myself or did you alpha yourself onto sin?

[limber lion]

Yeh, the hardest content you can do without a time-gating mechanic

[hollow escarp]

but we have no dks

[limber lion]

Similar to how people grind m+ to get high r.io scores

[limber lion]

I just gave in and play Outlaw on the fight.

Much rather kill the boss first and then meme around with Assa later lol

[fleet anchor]

Honestly I don't even know how many people have kills on every Mythic boss so far this week as Assassination for all-star. I only saw a couple.

[ionic fox]

Sooner SLG is dead sooner we get to prog as sin on denny

[limber lion]

It's like 3 if that lmao

[hollow escarp]

34 sin rogues killed sire

[icy crater]

All I know is that a dog can parse better than me 😠

[limber lion]

Even Passassin, who is #1 all star, only killed 9/10 as Assa

[hollow escarp]

ohh, on every boss

[limber lion]

Even the infamous Passassin switched to Outlaw for SLG

[tribal marlin]

we are rotating for everyone to get their chests

[fleet anchor]

Yeah

[ionic fox]

CtrlAltDel SLG

[fleet anchor]

That makes it hard

[halcyon zealot]

i mean shit M SLG as assas just sounds miserable

[tribal marlin]

since I don't really need anything in the raid i'm like doing only 7 bosses

[halcyon zealot]

literally just refreshing bleeds the whole time

[fleet anchor]

We are rotating people as well

May take me a few weeks to get all my Mythic kills in

[teal bloom]

How can you have tho asses in your name if you don't even 10/10 ass??

two

[hollow escarp]

you have people to rotate? that's cute

[limber lion]

Rotating so everyone gets 3 chests or 2?

[fleet anchor]

2 usually

[limber lion]

Ah alright

[tribal marlin]

yeah 2 at least

it make little sense to have people doing 8 bosses

especially if they don't need some

And we are gearing alts char as well

[burnt star]

If ur an officer in your guild. U dont have to sit

🤫

[hollow escarp]

not really

[thorn turtle]

Imagine having a guild

[fleet anchor]

All our melee are in for 7 next week looking at our comp sheet

Balance Druids and a couple others in for 9, plus tanks and heals

[tribal marlin]

the officer who did the sheet benched the GM hahahha

[burnt star]

Ahaha

[thorn turtle]

I pugged all hc after my guild disbanded after 0.1% hc sire wipe

[hollow escarp]

oof

[limber lion]

I can't wait to progress on Sire.

[halcyon zealot]

aotc out here WRECKING guilds

sadgew

[limber lion]

Looks like a pretty fun fight, at least compared to the worst fight in years.

[burnt star]

Council felt like the worst fight ever to prog

[grand echo]

I'm also benched for SLG.. Well let's hope my guild clears it during next week, maybe I'll get a try after that

[burnt star]

That stupid dance

[limber lion]

When did you start progressing on it?

[gloomy fern]

im gonna try krajll build next slg reclear

[grand echo]

Last week, we only raid 2 times a week

Boomer guild

[limber lion]

good fucking luck

We only raid 2 days a week as well

And we've been on SLG for 3 weeks now

Make sure to make the bench real warm and nice

[grand echo]

[fleet anchor]

2 night schedule represent

[limber lion]

Go brew some coffee

Light up the fireplace

[hollow escarp]

that's like a full weekend from morning to evening

[halcyon zealot]

lmfao

[thorn turtle]

We had a 4/10 mythic ww monk that wiped on 1st phase of hc deny all the evening

[grand echo]

Yeah I should just try pugging Inerva for 226 CtO

[halcyon zealot]

for some reason my dumbass thought they were guarunteed drops

[limber lion]

Did you raid more during progression?

[halcyon zealot]

needless to say i was more than disappointed to find out it wasn’t

[fleet anchor]

No, we've always been 2 night

[limber lion]

That's sick

[fleet anchor]

Been raiding 2 night since WoD

Gives me more time to work on APL and TC stuff 😄

[sinful fable]

How does Dauntless DUelist work after the mob you attacked first die?

[patent topaz]

2 night here as well, its nice

but sire has been cursed

[limber lion]

We spent way too much time reclearing heroic in the early weeks of the tier

[sinful fable]

does it automaticly go to your next attacked target?

[hollow escarp]

yes

[stoic needle]

yep

[patent topaz]

with lag and people having work/healt emergencies

[fleet anchor]

Trying to figure out when to work in Heroic early, when to phase it out, and when to extend Mythic

[sinful fable]

alrighty, cool

[fleet anchor]

Are like the bane of any 2 night guild

[limber lion]

Like we would spend one day, maybe one and a half, clearing heroic and then a day or a half progressing mythic

Yep

We had good progression in Ny'alotha, but we're definitely a lot slower this tier.

[sinful fable]

been trying to progress mythic coucil, got to 50% on the last mob but things turn to crap quickly at the end, need more time I think. But how do you guys do that fight as assa? Keep rupture up on all 3 for energy then do garrote on maintarget / offtarget repeatedly?

[grand echo]

We only killed sludge once and now it's forever extend for SLG :/ I liked M sludge fight

[limber lion]

We were world 600 or something when we killed Nzoth, now we're like 900 and we haven't even killed the second to last boss yet.

Who knows, maybe we'll pull off a miracle and just one-shot Sire

[ionic fox]

Yeah the Texas weather I feel definitely slowed a bunch of guilds

[balmy condor]

Garrote off targets

[grand echo]

Texas weather.. Well that's specific 👀

[limber lion]

We EU boys have no excuse. We just suck.

[grand echo]

Lots of wow player in Texas then..

[ionic fox]

I mean Texas has a lot of people lol just in my guild had 5-6 that couldn’t log

[fleet anchor]

SLG is a mentally taxing fight

People really get burnt out fast on it

[halcyon zealot]

yeah i’m doing everything in my power to enjoy sludge prog rn since council made me want to walk off a cliff and slg will do the same

[limber lion]

Yeah, and I think one of the reasons is that it's not even the last boss of the raid. Like there's still one more boss after this.

We had way more pulls on N'zoth but it was the last boss so it was kind of expected

[fleet anchor]

Sire is easier than SLG though if it's any consolation lol

[grand echo]

SLG is just add shitstorm. But at least there's some challenge

[fleet anchor]

At least imo

[limber lion]

Yeah, that's true. And a much more enjoyable fight

At least from what I've gathered

[patent topaz]

idk we had 120 wipes on slg and are at 160 on sire

[limber lion]

I wouldn't know 🙄

[fleet anchor]

Yeah but like

[patent topaz]

but sire has been cursed

[fleet anchor]

Half the wipes on Sire are probably just figuring out P1 and shit

[patent topaz]

with all kinds of shit

[limber lion]

Ah but that's a good thing right? Easy, fast wipes

Instead of mashing your head at the keyboard for 7 minutes then wiping. Then doing that 20 times over.

[fleet anchor]

Yeah I mean if you are getting 7-8 minute wipes on Sire

By that point you're probably almost done

You're just learning P3

On SLG.. 7-8 minute wipes are still in the middle of the slog lol

[limber lion]

Yeh. ugh

[sinful fable]

@balmy condor oh, so jsut garrote off targets and just keep envenoming current boss? Cool. How do you do the opener on this boss? Do you delay it for the add spawn?

[balmy condor]

Yeah get the dots up, and then go ham when the add dies

[sinful fable]

so I guess I'm doing something right then, my usual route is muti snd muti garrote, muti to 5-6cps and rupture then pool energy/combopoints on add and then shiv, vanish envenom trinket muti envenom

[balmy condor]

Yep looks good

[sinful fable]

Also, I am guessing its worth saving skulkers for every vendetta? or just blow on cd? not sure about the math

vendetta/vanish window

[raven hollow]

Anyone have time to take a look at a log? Its my first real time playing Sin in a raid environment and I want to see how I can improve

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/HK9yzRtgTvQxjBMw/#fight=1&playermetric=bossdps&type=summary&source=54

my openers probably horrendous

[balmy condor]

Skulk isn’t buffed by anything

The on damage stuff isn’t on vendetta/ma white lists

So you can just fire it off whenever

[sinful fable]

oooh

well thats news to me, thanks!

[limber lion]

My man, you need to have Shiv up on the target before you vanish

[sinful fable]

is dreadfire buffed by ma?

[limber lion]

You need to use Shiv faster or just time it a bit better

[balmy condor]

No trinkets are buffed by ma

[sinful fable]

just to be clear, we're talking the talent MA and not just MA leggo right?

I know they changed MA leggo, didnt realize the MA talent didnt buff it either

[halcyon zealot]

also, i think the play for assass is vendetta on pull 2 and 4, instead of holding it for one and three and (wall slam that won’t happen on heroic)

[balmy condor]

On that shiv topic, that log specifically makes me suspicious of your shiv usage. 9 casts on a 4:33 sludge makes me think you’re not holding shiv for pillars

[halcyon zealot]

for sludge specifically

[balmy condor]

That’s a fight specific thing

[balmy condor]

Yeah the talent never has, the legendary was the odd one, and the nerf brought it in line with the talent

[sinful fable]

roger! Very insightful for me, thank you ❤️

[balmy condor]

Np :)

[raven hollow]

Yeah first time on Sludge as Sin idk what I was doing

Prob had to miss a shiv window on the slams and then it was holding for pillars

[limber lion]

Just try to line up your cooldowns for the pillars without missing any casts in between

[balmy condor]

With a 25 sec cd on shiv, you can’t get 2 shivs between pillar windows, so it’s always 1 shiv between pillar, 1 on pillar

[limber lion]

Yeh, you can use 2 shiv's before the first pillar but not after that.

[balmy condor]

You have to cast that first shiv super fast tho

[limber lion]

Yep

[balmy condor]

Like earlier than usual in your opener

[limber lion]

And the third Shiv is applied whilst he's charging

So it's a bit yolo

[balmy condor]

Or else it won’t line up

[nocturne hawk]

Yeah I fucked that up this week lol

shiv way to late

[raven hollow]

Yeah I get that

[sinful fable]

For the first 7 bosses, it feels like council is the odd one out, feels so chaotic for assa while the rest doesnt really

[halcyon zealot]

i’ll prob still play outlaw on reclears

i like grappling hook on that fight also

for council

[limber lion]

Warlocks normally use their covenant ability like 4s into a pull

But on Sludge they actually have to start with it or they won't have it for the pillar

The Night Fae one, Soul Rot

[sinful fable]

yeah honestly, I know most people say that assa is better for most bosses except SLG

but feels like its outlaw for SLG+Council

[crimson palm]

u dont use sr at all

on pull

[raven hollow]

Sin felt so bad on Sire for me today

But that's attributable to me rather than the spec, prob

[halcyon zealot]

it’s probably marginal on council, if you’re more comfortable with outlaw you’ll probably do more dmg than playing assass cuz it’s technically a few % better

[dense axle]

IMO it dependson your raid comp. If you have a ton of cleave otherwise, you can probably go Sin for more boss dmg

[cloud dune]

if I'm understanding the pins correctly, we only use one potency conduit in Nadja's tree?

[dense axle]

otherwise OL is probs best for council

[sinful fable]

yeah my reasoning is that I am hard-swapping to assa fulltime, even M+ just to get into the spec more, I've been playing outlaw for 7 hours every day since SL release so yeah

[limber lion]

https://gyazo.com/d6f6e995bb09e51fcadbca7b5d7810b7
This opener works pretty well for Sludge if you use MFD and you MFD/SnD pre-pull

The hateful gaze starts at around 0:51-52 and he actually charges at 0:57-0:58, so you'll have like one to two second leeway before he starts charging toward the pillar to apply Shiv

But tbh the vulnerability lasts for 12 seconds, so even if you use Shiv after he hits the pillar, it's not too bad

As long as you're there ready to start pumping and don't spend 4 seconds walking there after he's hit the pillar lol

[halcyon zealot]

the u just mfd for shiv window envenoms on pillar??

then *

[queen galleon]

6th night on prog sludge

already want to kill myself

[dense axle]

we just did our first prog night last night on him

[limber lion]

Yeh pretty much

https://gyazo.com/3ae61a2fb9ad4dbb345b9c1406779935?token=d900dc4f1c49c8861ec14117b22119ff

[halcyon zealot]

id be interested in trying that but my haste is so fucking low (16% NF) that i can’t drop vigor yet

[prisma perch]

So I just started out idk which leggy to craft?

[blissful yew]

!oh

[prisma monolith]

Mutilate requires a dagger in both hands, this makes using a non dagger weapons undesirable.

[queen galleon]

Pot on pull greeder

[limber lion]

That's not the pull

That's the pillar window

[prisma perch]

what is the best for ST? the FAQ lists 2 choices

[queen galleon]

its ok

im r word

[limber lion]

[prisma perch]

doom or dashing scoundrel?

[limber lion]

Doomblade is bis ST legendary

[prisma perch]

better than scoundrel?

[limber lion]

Yes.

[prisma perch]

okay ty

m+ is zoldyck?

[limber lion]

You can refer to this sim that Whispyr made (also pinned):
#assassination message

Yes

[dawn ivy]

the more haste and crit we get the more scoundrel will scale right

[prisma perch]

is zoldyck also for aoe raid enc?

[limber lion]

Or MA if you're into that.

[limber lion]

Yes.

[prisma perch]

alright !

[sinful fable]

I stumbled upon Infexious when looking for an assa 9.0.5 m+ guide, but his guide seems...off

am I just being stupid or

[queen galleon]

I can't undestand shit when infexious is talking

[limber lion]

Yes it's awful

He spreads misinformation straight up

His videos are not accurate.

[dawn ivy]

just get 34% crit

[sinful fable]

yeah thats why I was very hesitant after spending time on discord here

[limber lion]

His claims are baseless, his rotations are flawed

[sinful fable]

Have you seen "JustRuss"'s video?

he's only made a guide for raiding so far, but he's making one for m+ when he gets the time apparently

but it looked more in line with ravenholdt info

[limber lion]

I'll look it up

Aight I'll skim through the video quickly

[prisma perch]

on what slots do we put zoldyck and doom?

[balmy condor]

there's a lot of jank ass content creators in the wow community sadly

[balmy condor]

legs and hands

[prisma perch]

ty 🙂

[halcyon zealot]

@balmy condor everyone needs that youtube money

make a guide saying anything and everyting and throw it up fuck it

[limber lion]

This JustRuss is actually very well informed and his video is full of really good points. He talks about spacing out Envenom's, pooling, using Ambush instead of Muti on opener if BS procs, actually opening with muti and not ambush etc.

His opener is a bit feelcrafty but other than that it's 10000x better than Infexious' videos

Would recommend him if videos are more your thing.

[brittle pawn]

because he asked in here about intricacies of the spec the day buffs were announced 😛

@limpid blaze

i watched his outlaw stuff when i first got into that and it was pretty good ,too

[spice spire]

What a king

[ionic fox]

Rogue was my 2nd character ever started in BFA first videos I found start of shadowlands was infexious first guildy I told about it told me he was full of shit. Lol

[limber lion]

Infexious apparently wanted to become a full time streamer, but that didn't really work out when he never got partnered

[knotty sparrow]

I’m 1640 io as outlaw but I tried m+ as sin with MA and following the guide (venth, 2230023, etc) I got 5.2k overall on a 14 PF tyrannical key. Very low number and only a 91 damage parse but what I noticed is because of the ST on the bosses and pride mob it was more “helpful” damage I guess. we nearly +3d it (+2). I’m very rough at sin aoe still and my itemization is pretty crap

[limber lion]

Yeah 5.2 is a bit on the low side. But just keep at it and you'll get better

Practice makes perfect 🙂

[spice spire]

What kills me about it, is that an ounce of leg work would really help the content's accuracy. Or even an ounce of verbiage. But for rogue video guides, it seems to NEVER be added.

[limber lion]

Comparing the two, JustRuss' video is a thousand times better. It goes to very min-maxy stuff as well, where as Infx only says what is best and how to do it, but doesn't go into the specifics.

[spice spire]

he asked questions, and did an ounce of leg work it seems

[knotty sparrow]

Question: when you open on a pack and crimson tempest are you target switching to each and garrote/rupturing each of them? When I try that I end up not being able to keep up on all the mobs

So like fan of knives to generate and just low cp rupturing all the mobs?

[limber lion]

Yes you want to have garrote and rupture up on as many targets as possible (that live the full duration)

[limber lion]

You can do a few low cp ruptures to get it rolling but would recommend building for higher CP ruptures after that

[knotty sparrow]

Even on tyrannical week where the mobs don’t live very long?

[limber lion]

Also when playing with Subterfuge, you want to open with gar > gar > gar which is already a lot of passive energy regen.

[limber lion]

Like said above, as long as they live the full duration.

Or close to it

[knotty sparrow]

I found myself garrote rupturing the biggest mob, fan of knives to generate, and keeping crimson tempest up

[limber lion]

As long as you don't spam CT, then that's good.

[knotty sparrow]

Yeah I was doing the gar gar gar thing

[limber lion]

Only keep the debuff up, but that's it

[knotty sparrow]

Right

Yeah I dunno it feels like more work than outlaw that’s for sure

[limber lion]

Outlaw is very simple because it has very little target-swapping and tracking

[dense axle]

spin to win baby

[limber lion]

You just target the highest hp mob, put on blade flurry and press the glowing buttons

[shadow tangle]

I should try outlaw with a weak aura, no flowing buttons means constantly watching my hot bar for when shit comes up

Glowing*

[knotty sparrow]

Afenars for outlaw plus a nicer RtB WA for “REROLL” is basically all it takes

Yeah sin aoe is tricky

Tricky to make it a competitor anyway

[limber lion]

I don't recommend using a reroll-weak aura for Outlaw

Just learn which buffs are good and what you want to keep.

Afenar's Outlaw pack is good enough for that for sure.

[frosty bridge]

Am I allowed to post my logs here for advice?

I feel a bit lost

[knotty sparrow]

Yeah but it helps mostly to remind me to RtB when they drop off

Rather than which ones are good

Anyways sin needs a good AOE leggo

[limber lion]

Yeah, for that purpose it's fine

[limber lion]

Sure thing

[knotty sparrow]

Zoldycks should be considerably better than MA not just barely

I think Zoldycks needs a buff

[frosty bridge]

Aight

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/yWmzrg6pFDNYkCat/#boss=-2&difficulty=0&wipes=1&type=damage-done

Losmii the sin rogue

First time trying sin in raid and im not very happy

Only got rank 2 legendary but still feel lackluster

[stoic needle]

your garotte and rupture uptime needs work

should be 95%+ on both

oh wait nvm

[frosty bridge]

Yep, my WAs are fucked for tracking and i refresh too soon and too early, noticed during the fight often

[stoic needle]

i didn't see that this was overall

but yeah, still true

god council is such a shit fight lol

[frosty bridge]

Yeah mb, didnt know what pull specifically to put

I really hate the fight tbh lol

Never sure if i should garrote for energy, wasnt sure if i should garrote rupture attendands

[knotty sparrow]

You would have parsed a lot higher if the boss actually died

[frosty bridge]

Overcapped on CP often with bonespike

[frosty bridge]

Maybe haha

[stoic needle]

you want 1 garotte on the closest non-main target boss but that's about it

attendants don't live very long so dotting them isn't usually worth much

[frosty bridge]

Yeah, i didn’t garrote a second target almost at all

Will work on it next raid

Im also not sure how to optimally use SBS here, kinda wish i was venthyr to have it simpler

[limber lion]

Yeh on some pulls you used garrote and rupture on the attendant, which is not really ideal lol.

[frosty bridge]

I try ot save 1 for attendands so i get resets

Hmm, i thunk i did it too many pulls

[limber lion]

I think your usage of SBS looks pretty fine

[stoic needle]

i think you want to put up at least 2 on the bosses so you get more CP

[frosty bridge]

Thought it was worth but it obviously lives too short

[spice spire]

You also overcapped CPs quite a bit

[stoic needle]

what happens when you have 3 sbs up on the bosses and then use sbs again on a new target? does one of them go away?

[spice spire]

I pulled the 19th pull, your furthest in, and 70 were wasted

[frosty bridge]

Yep, especially in later pulls i noticed using muta on 4 CP

[spice spire]

That’s pretty huge

[frosty bridge]

And garrote on 5 to refresh

Wad tired sf at that point but its way toooo much

[unkempt belfry]

I have a question on the MA Opener for Venthyr for single target.
So Mut->SnD->Mut->Garrote->Flag->Rupture->Vendetta->Shiv->vanish->Mut->Envenom->Mut (5+cp)->Envenom...

Why do we prioritize Slice and Dice instead of Rupture?

For regen purposes, shouldn't be apply rupture as soon as possible in the opener?

[spice spire]

Seal fate is also something to remember, over half were just that. Like you’ll definitely waste some at some point. So I wouldn’t sweat going as far as saying “only 0 acceptable” but as close to 0 as possible is Ideal

[limber lion]

SnD is OP. As simple as that.

It increases your damage more than a rupture would.

[spice spire]

Autos > bleed rn

[unkempt belfry]

so just the auto attack damage instead of energy regen is enough to prioritize?

Interesting.

[spice spire]

Also and I could be wrong here, on that pull it has your opener as going vanish > shiv. When it should be shiv > vanish so it’s one less GCD eaten

[limber lion]

Yeh, shiv before vanish always

[frosty bridge]

Oh yeah i also wanted to ask

[spice spire]

And it’s solely just “GCD for MA is gold”

Other than that, you seem fine. It’s really just fine tuning and vibing

[frosty bridge]

Do i spam envenom on cooldown or try to refresh it more?

Does it have a pandemic?

[spice spire]

It does now

[stoic needle]

Usually you want to use it when you're at ~70% energy or if the buff is in pandemic

[winged storm]

anyone here who does 18+ keys as assa? What leggy are u using?

[limber lion]

Zoldyck 🙂

[wheat parrot]

Is there an easy way to sim a legendary i dont have onto my gear?

Like do i have to add it into the code manually ?

[winged storm]

played first time assa today, man it feels bad that fok sometimes only gives 1 cp 😄

[hexed root]

anyone else make the swap from NF/venth recently? I did yesterday, and man, the lack of mobility feels rough, maybe I'm just imagining it

[winged storm]

u play poison bomb or ct?

[limber lion]

You can use Top Gear in raidbots to sim all legendaries

[queen galleon]

you mean Nf to venthyr ?

[limber lion]

It takes a bit of time to get used to it, but it's not that bad when you play with it for a few days

[limber lion]

CT always

[wheat parrot]

@limber lion ty buddy very helpful!

[queen galleon]

the venthyr TP is really really feelsbadman

but in pvp *

I only like to use it in arena

[limber lion]

[harsh basalt]

beyond applying enough bleeds to never run out of energy, in sizable pulls (8+) wouldn't spamming CT deal more damage than applying more ruptures?

[limber lion]

No

First of all CT is capped to 8 targets so that wouldn't work on 8+ targets

[harsh basalt]

well, i'm more referencing that fact that is goes up to 8 targets

[limber lion]

Also the instant damage of CT is not great.

With more targets you want to apply CT more often and not only in pandemic windows

But you never want to just spam it mindlessly

[harsh basalt]

currently rupture deals ~5.2k damage for me but against 8 targets the impact of CT is 830 (x8 = 6640)

[limber lion]

Yeh but the energy you get from Rupture is the big thing

If you don't have any ruptures/garrotes on your targets, you cannot use fok/ct

You NEED to have bleeds up so you can use your other abilities

[harsh basalt]

i mentioned that initially, i said "beyond applying enough bleeds to never run out of energy"

[limber lion]

Yeah, but that's the thing

[harsh basalt]

after like 4/5 bleeds i noticed my energy never moves from full

[limber lion]

You don't have enough time to do that

After using CT you need to be already applying new garrotes/ruptures

Before the initial ones start dropping

You want to always have the bleeds up before they drop so you don't starve yourself

Like whenever you open with 3x garrotes, you need to balance it out with extra ruptures when 2 of those garrotes just drop after their done.

[harsh basalt]

if we throw in garrote then there's more than enough time to spam CT, against 5 dummies i can once in a while fit in a spammy CT but if i use garrote every 6 seconds to help maintain 5 total bleeds i generate plenty points to spam whatever

[limber lion]

You do realize that Crimson Tempest does not count for VW?

[harsh basalt]

yes

[limber lion]

So if you only have 2 garrotes up at all times, you'd need 3 ruptures up as well

You'll be gcd capped by having to spend so much time generating with FoK and reapplying dots

[harsh basalt]

that's what i'm saying, if i balance, say, 3 garrotes and 2 ruptures, i'll have a massive overflow of points to use on whatever

[limber lion]

Yeah, for like 6s

[vagrant delta]

i was going to say, it depends on the level of key

[limber lion]

You just simply don't have enough time to spam

[vagrant delta]

because if things are dying fast, it may not be worth reapplying individual dots if you arent going to run out of energy

[stoic needle]

Yeah ngl I spam ct in ardenweald in DOS and it works fine

[prisma perch]

always haste mastery missive?

[stoic needle]

Triple garotte, fok, ct, vanish, triple garotte, fok CT fok ct

[limber lion]

You can honestly just spam FoK and be fine

[stoic needle]

No way you're gonna do 10k+ dps in that pull just spamming fok lol

[harsh basalt]

also, vigor or mfd these days? see a lot of boys making the switch to mfd

[stoic needle]

I'm a mfd boy switching back to vigor

[prisma perch]

guys are the missives haste/crt?

[harsh basalt]

haste crit sim best yes

[stoic needle]

Haste crit or haste vers

[young flume]

playing NF with MA and Korayn FS, should I just run niya instead? dont have the ash for zoldyks yet

[harsh basalt]

single target vigor and deeper stratagem sim closely but for dungeons with the recent buff to venemous wounds vigor seems like a moot point

[limber lion]

Probably yeah

MA and FS pretty much cuck each other

[stoic needle]

Run niya herbs

But it's not that bad if you're good at cheesing extra duration from FS

[limber lion]

Herbs is pretty dank

[young flume]

oh wait shit how about Dreamweaver? or is the haste trash in m+? ill sim I guess