assassination

[shrewd night]

Do you see me play rogue?

[balmy condor]

Gotta crack those boomer fingers a little before you try to type

[limber lion]

Is this OT or why is there a SB other than fuu here?

[spice spire]

Toxic

[tacit pilot]

u guys use poisoned katar conduit or just well placed steel

for +s

[limber lion]

Lashing Scars, but Katar apparently sims pretty well for Venthyr as well

Just sim yourself my man

[tacit pilot]

roger

[balmy condor]

Double potency nadjia with lashing and katar

Great utility as well tbh. Reduces cc duration and adds a disorient on door?

[spice spire]

Katar one time

[balmy condor]

Papi like

[spice spire]

Wait is that actually good?

[balmy condor]

Yeah it sims really high for me

[slim wagon]

which item slot do you craft zoldycks on? I'm almost capped in soul ash and preparing myself to go sin for the future

[spice spire]

I’m just used to deliriously troll-y whispyr at this time of morning

[spice spire]

Legs

[gloomy fern]

ive not used door once since swapping

fight me

[balmy condor]

Not sure why katar is on the menu suddenly

But it seems good

[spice spire]

W.

[hollow escarp]

should probably sim it as well

[limber lion]

Aight I'm simming it

[hollow escarp]

already got 35% crit

[limber lion]

Too bad the last soulbind there is awful

[slim wagon]

thank you

[spice spire]

Not 34 ???

[balmy condor]

Like I would sim duelist, double potency nadjia, and all 3 theotar routes

[analog glade]

Doomblade takes internal bleeding into account?

[balmy condor]

And it’s like theotar slightly ahead

[limber lion]

I couldn't care less about cc reduction

[balmy condor]

But double nadjia close second

[balmy condor]

I believe so, but that’s gotta be a pvp thing probably

[hollow escarp]

I simmed all venthyr soulbinds

2 mil iter

[balmy condor]

Don’t bother simming draven

That dude worthless

[hollow escarp]

hey, but it's good in m+ if you die a lot

[analog glade]

Okay

Theotar in outlaw

[hollow escarp]

I couldn't help myself and also selected 1 more trinket for sim

[fossil slate]

!oil

[prisma monolith]

Using consumables will increase your damage, however the difference between oil/stone/potion combinations are very minor (within 0.5% of each other). You can sim the difference for yourself by pasting this pastebin underneath your /simc input, in the "advanced sim" section of raidbots: https://pastebin.com/Lbxc7afJ

[limber lion]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/3RsKvbML7myfLueWq3pRMm
@balmy condor

[dire spoke]

https://tenor.com/view/twice-sana-kpop-confused-gif-18280339

[limber lion]

It's a close one, but LP still sims higher than Katar.

I was hoping to see Katar at the top

[hollow escarp]

lol

I think I messed up my sim

[spice spire]

[hollow escarp]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/wV6zv4nQuToJcsJKH2z4df

[limber lion]

[hollow escarp]

does Exacting Preparation stack with Panda food buff?

[dire spoke]

@balmy condor is my eternal knowledge about clicking cutting edge needed

[limber lion]

Oo, Lashing Scars + LP sims higher than Theotar for me

That's sick

[vestal wren]

nice

[hollow escarp]

not too bad

[balmy condor]

I just wanted your love

[hollow escarp]

but theotar sims higher for me

[limber lion]

Link

[onyx wind]

Ye katar is a banger

[hollow escarp]

linked earlier

[onyx wind]

But we embrace the tea party

[limber lion]

But that was the scuffed one

[onyx wind]

Who wants some tea?

[hollow escarp]

it's the same one

I said it's scuffed because Exacting Perparation sims the best

I'm also not happy to see Phial not simming better

but in practice so far, Decanter did like 50% of the Phial damage

because I don't always face the mobs properly

[limber lion]

Interesting

[dire spoke]

https://tenor.com/view/twice-hug-gif-13782502

[limber lion]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/97FadrgnF3Dwt4HGsmfc56

[limber lion]

[hollow escarp]

you're in Oblivion as well

[onyx wind]

zoldyck on FEET?

DAMN DANIEL

[limber lion]

Yeh I'm a gangster

[balmy condor]

It’s a weird fetish thing for him don’t ask

[final star]

he got them balenciaga on lock

[limber lion]

[onyx wind]

🥺

did any of u guys farm valor

how much can u get pr hr

with a good grp

[limber lion]

Did for Phial

[onyx wind]

+2s i mean

[balmy condor]

Valor is seasonal capped anyway

[final star]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/apmmG11yRvbXTu4NYpczgT

[balmy condor]

No point in spamming mega hard

[final star]

[limber lion]

No clue, I did them with shit groups and with each of the groups disbanded after just one dungeon

[onyx wind]

whats the cap?

[daring mango]

Went from outlaw to assassination, first legendary for general use still zoldyck or is doomblade the play?

[limber lion]

A farm group could probably blast in 20 minutes.

[onyx wind]

also im just gearing my alt

[limber lion]

Probably less

[balmy condor]

5k base, increasing by 750 every week

[limber lion]

Doomblade raid, Zoldyck M+/AoE

[daring mango]

Much apreciated, thanks

[limber lion]

[lofty shell]

is MA any good for m+?

[onyx wind]

its good yea

[lofty shell]

i mean the leggo

[onyx wind]

its weird tho

idk why its good but it sims well

[lofty shell]

i cant rly see how it would be used

[karmic crystal]

because

[lofty shell]

cuz u dont wanna use MA window on bleeds right

[balmy condor]

Everything critting for 4 seconds

[limber lion]

You just have it on like you would for Zoldyck

[karmic crystal]

you can go invis a lot

[balmy condor]

Is pretty good

[spice spire]

Crit subterfuge garrotes

[limber lion]

And then alter your rotation for ST.

You play it the exact same way as Zoldy in aoe

[lofty shell]

just did my first key in assa spec

atleast i didnt fail miserably

with doomblade tho

[fallen ginkgo]

Yo whats assa opener for ST raid right now?

[limber lion]

!guide

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
RH: https://www.ravenholdt.net/guides/assassination-rogue-guide-shadowlands-raid-dps/
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide

[brisk forge]

Get MA/Zol 🥰

[fallen ginkgo]

oh thanks man!

[lofty shell]

maybe i gotta give MA a shot ye

[limber lion]

[lofty shell]

i got a 235 one so

[fallen current]

have the soulbinds changed for vent as mentioned in the pins?

[balmy condor]

Let’s see

Nope look fine to me

[fallen current]

ok thanks

[hollow escarp]

@limber lion did you also select Exacting Preparation in your sims?

[balmy condor]

I got to “exacting”

And just read “exa”

For “exsang”

[limber lion]

I didn't, didn't assume it would pop off lmao

[balmy condor]

And let me tell you

My blood pressure

[hollow escarp]

[limber lion]

But then again I rarely have food in M+ because I'm trash and die 10 times a dungeon

[hollow escarp]

it sims the best for me

[limber lion]

so don't know how much value you'd get out of that

[hollow escarp]

it's also flask and weapon enchant

[limber lion]

let me give it a shot without food buff

[balmy condor]

Yeah exacting prep with the flask weapon bullshit is pretty good too

[hollow escarp]

I use stones, not oil as well

[balmy condor]

But I’d rather the second potency tbh

[hollow escarp]

I would agree with that

would rather play duelist before that

[balmy condor]

Jank ass consumable expansion

[limber lion]

remember when pandas were busted in beta because of stupid consumables

one of the rare occasions where a race made a difference

[balmy condor]

I was wondering why all my sims were like 40 lower

Than herodamage

[hollow escarp]

I remember Naowh changed to Panda because the vers food

[balmy condor]

And then a giga brain in my twitch chat was like “yo mecha gnome?”

[hollow escarp]

but bro, that 40 dps is yuge

[balmy condor]

And then I beat the herodamage sims

[fallen current]

top kek

[limber lion]

[knotty sparrow]

I went orc for PvP but I’m going back to BE or undead soon because the mogs are better

[hollow escarp]

can't give up shadowmeld for that

also I get crit if I do keys at night

[knotty sparrow]

Undead female waifu

[fallen current]

i'll stick to hooman. im lazy when it comes to rep

[hollow escarp]

secondary stats bro

[fallen current]

well that too

[hollow escarp]

ever heard of scaling?

[fallen current]

but rep

[spice spire]

Bro that’s tos, censor yourself. It’s sc*ling smh

[balmy condor]

Tell me the story papa

[knotty sparrow]

Horde needs a shadowmeld IMO

It’s too OP for rogue PvP

[balmy condor]

It’s 6am need me a good bedtime story

[hollow escarp]

nothing much, just the reason I'm bad at the game, need to wait 2 patches to be good

[balmy condor]

[thorny pond]

scary story is called class balance

[knotty sparrow]

Once upon a time there was a thicc panda with two daggers and she ate all the bamboo and had rancid braps all over the tips of her blades

[balmy condor]

We went from worst spec to best spec in half a tier

[hollow escarp]

we scaled pretty fast this expac

[spice spire]

We scaled hard

[balmy condor]

Think about where we’ll be in 2 tiers

[gentle gyro]

S C A L E D

[spice spire]

Everyone was right sin does scale

[fallen current]

🚀 🌕

[balmy condor]

Perfect thank you

[knotty sparrow]

Sin got buffed why y’all acting like we scaled

All we needed to scale was like a 30% dmg buff

[balmy condor]

Cause we scaled

With buffs

[thorny pond]

yea scaled. that's what we said

[limber lion]

Yeh we were so under-represented for such a long time, it was about time we got buffs

./s

[balmy condor]

True

[hollow escarp]

yeah, sin in 8.3 was so bad

[balmy condor]

Honestly surprising they left sin in the dumps for so long, considering rogue only has two specs

[frosty bridge]

DS sims higher for me at only 20% haste (without food or any buffs)

and as non venthyr

is it a trap?

[balmy condor]

Neigh like the horse

[onyx wind]

did a +2 SD in 10 minutes XD

[balmy condor]

Who did?

[spice spire]

Don’t do it whisp

That’s toxic

[onyx wind]

my pug group

[hollow escarp]

[spice spire]

Oh no

[onyx wind]

who ASKED LOL

[balmy condor]

https://tenor.com/view/megamind-trapped-trap-funny-villain-gif-4559766

[frosty bridge]

as in dont go DS or its not a trap? xD

[balmy condor]

🐴

[hollow escarp]

idk if I'm tanking too much but every time I ran Cloaked in Shadows conduit I had better healing than Recuperator overall

[frosty bridge]

bruh

[hollow escarp]

in keys ofc

[balmy condor]

Not a trap

[frosty bridge]

Thanks

DS it is

[balmy condor]

Anytime home skillet

god I’m so fucking white

[shadow helm]

does ass rogue have stat breakpoints

[balmy condor]

No

[hollow escarp]

[balmy condor]

In fact

[hollow escarp]

damn, I'm slow

[balmy condor]

I’m angry you even asked me

[tender fjord]

Stat breakpoint is 0, everything above that is better

[balmy condor]

[shadow helm]

col

[shy axle]

do you still use glag in combination with vendetta if you do not lose a cast overall or did something new come up ?

[tender fjord]

[balmy condor]

Just be monk, have negative stat weights

[balmy condor]

Nope, that’s still the rule

Syncing it isn’t actually that big of a dps gain either

[tender fjord]

As long as you have a good scaling damage profile with 34% crit it’s all good

[balmy condor]

So imo

S L A M
D A T
S H I T

[fallen current]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-crazy-cat-keyboard-cat-fast-gif-5753018

[hollow escarp]

hit the breakpoint

[lean fossil]

@fallen current where did you find a gif of @balmy condor playing his rogue?

[shadow helm]

🤢

[fallen current]

youtube

[balmy condor]

[celest ruin]

!oil

[prisma monolith]

Using consumables will increase your damage, however the difference between oil/stone/potion combinations are very minor (within 0.5% of each other). You can sim the difference for yourself by pasting this pastebin underneath your /simc input, in the "advanced sim" section of raidbots: https://pastebin.com/Lbxc7afJ

[shy axle]

just reading the guide to refresh, it is written there to finish at 4+ (normal if you do not have DS), but do we also finish at 4+ with DS or does DS bump it up to 5+?

[grim tree]

what is the speed cap 15% 20%?

For assasin un m+ and raid?

[hollow escarp]

I know avoidance is 20%

not sure if speed is the same

[crystal blaze]

do you always delay flag to use it with vendetta ?

[grim tree]

15% 20% cele and search crit versa same?

Haste “cele”

[gentle gyro]

this game keeps giving me necks

https://i.imgur.com/5F9lVqT.png

and all sim higher if i upgrade them to 220

[balmy condor]

No, the default should be to never delay

[balmy condor]

Ds means 5+

[gentle gyro]

i never find a good place to vendetta in dungeons besides pride. i feel like i'm wasting casts

as in i keep it too long. do i just throw it on a trash mob

[plush ferry]

what's perfect st combination of trinkets? I have slg, sludg, shriek, council, quantum device. Other than PF trinket should I focus on farming anything else? Seems like everyone is using different trinkets lol

[balmy condor]

Yuh

[gentle gyro]

@plush ferry

[balmy condor]

Droptimizer

[gentle gyro]

but also depends

[balmy condor]

Is your friend

Just top gear, then 220 droptimizer

[plush ferry]

thanks

[fossil garnet]

does the ad rush leggo still work with SnD for assa?

or has it ever worked?

[balmy condor]

It used to, and was like #4 or 5

And then they made it not work

[fossil garnet]

sadge

[balmy condor]

Kinda odd imo

Considering it wasn’t very good

Cto works and isn’t very good

That’s still in

[gentle gyro]

can ret / holy still use that tank legy?

[balmy condor]

No clue

[fossil garnet]

aight ty whispyr

[lone siren]

I thought we had to delay if it makes us lose the combo Vendetta-Flag. Am i wrong ?

[balmy condor]

Yes

You should cast on cooldown

And if you truly know, in the depths of your soul, that the kill will line up perfectly

[strange python]

what would u guys consider a comfy lvl of haste to run DS? im at 17% and sims only showing a small dps increase over vigor

[balmy condor]

Then and only then will you consider syncing them

[gentle gyro]

or in other words, if the encounter is unlikely to last another 90s

you can wait

[balmy condor]

Ye

[plush ferry]

I have 12% haste, still crit sims higher

[gloomy fern]

maybe u ahve 0 crit

[balmy condor]

The difference between syncing and not honestly isn’t that big

[plush ferry]

more than haste kekw

[sharp stump]

With tyrannical keys, is it worth running elaborate planning and crimson tempest over blindside and poison bomb at all?

[balmy condor]

It’s like 1% or something

But if you miss a cast

That’s a bigger loss

[gentle gyro]

same way it makes little diff whether you use flag before or after vendetta

[balmy condor]

Would never run blindside in m+ ever

[gentle gyro]

i did once because i forgot to swap

[balmy condor]

Poison bomb is a hard “probably not”

[gentle gyro]

felt useless af

[balmy condor]

It seems to sim okay on like 1-2 profiles with dashing scoundrel specifically

But it’s just so useless for aoe

[sharp stump]

Yeah thought as much

Cheers for that there

[balmy condor]

Np my pleasure

[glacial quarry]

is the venthyr cov ability a hassle to use? a rogue friend of mine kept complaining about it for sub/outlaw and i picked nf for levelling, but thinking of swapping to venthyr

[plush ferry]

the old one used to, now its awesome

[glacial quarry]

oh! they changed it??

[plush ferry]

duh 😄

[balmy condor]

It’s single cast now

[glacial quarry]

venthyr i go then 😄

[balmy condor]

No recast

The recast was the jank part

[glacial quarry]

ahhh, that explains it, i was looking at it like "this doesn't seem as janky as everyone's saying"

the guides put zoldyck as the versatile all-rounder choice, but looking at the sims, doomblade is the more versatile -- is that right or does it change with soulbinds etc?

[plush ferry]

they buffed doomblade last week as well

[glacial quarry]

niiiice, so i guess i can't go wrong with venthyr doomblade then

[balmy condor]

Execute damage is just so good for progression

Even if it sims lower, the fact that you have the damage during execute is enough to make it recommended

Plus it’s the go-to for m+

[high nacelle]

is that with First Strike?

applicable to First Strike*

[glacial quarry]

makes sense, this is mostly a char that will just go to farm runs, no prog, but i want to be able to raid & m+ competitively

[gentle gyro]

i miss first strike

[stoic needle]

I don't

[balmy condor]

Yes

[cunning locust]

cant imagine playing assa without Nadja's proc now

[brazen rampart]

!bis

[balmy condor]

Nope, sim yourself

[brazen rampart]

wait what's the command

[balmy condor]

The list is removed

[brazen rampart]

oh, makes sense

[balmy condor]

But if you find a link somewhere feel free to request access so you rot in my inbox with the other uh.... 78 people

[hollow escarp]

imagine not making copies

[brazen rampart]

was too lazy to sim droptimizer for dungeon daggers and wondering if i should commit to a haste vers dagger i have or if there's something better

[limber lion]

#off-topic message

[balmy condor]

[hollow escarp]

lol

[limber lion]

It honestly doesn't take too much work to use droptimizer

[brazen rampart]

[limber lion]

You'll save yourself the trouble of thinking and comparing stuff yourself

[balmy condor]

Can’t just hit him with the off topic meme

They don’t know

[hollow escarp]

well, herodamage has the bis list if you really care about it

[warm parcel]

Idno chief

[limber lion]

[warm parcel]

That meme is glorious enough for people to understand

[balmy condor]

True

[brazen rampart]

who's the guy in the pic?

[balmy condor]

Me

[hollow escarp]

can confirm

[stoic needle]

https://tenor.com/view/stuck-behind-bar-let-me-in-begging-please-gif-15238485

[brazen rampart]

[limber lion]

The thing is that it never gets old. It's stays relevant

[warm parcel]

yeye

[spice spire]

[limber lion]

too good

[balmy condor]

Also should mention I was hammered on stream when that was taken

[hollow escarp]

well bis lists weren't a thing for a good while now

[brazen rampart]

ravenholdt meme game always on point

[warm parcel]

Im still feeling the amount of class changes is too smol for great memes

In legion we had a constant influx of changes

So memes were plentiful

[hollow escarp]

fok > mutilate

[spice spire]

O no

[warm parcel]

bleed vs poison bois

[limber lion]

glorious days

[warm parcel]

+1 energy buff on tier

[hollow escarp]

I farmed 2 months for relics to replace my fok ones after they nerfed it

[balmy condor]

What’s stronger, 1 ambush, or a baseline generator looking boi

[warm parcel]

Ambush

[frosty bridge]

Perhaps stupid question but

Does deadly ´poision and envenom get buffed by DH or monk debuff?

[dense bramble]

If we get to use a 2nd legendary, what would it be?

[warm parcel]

Poisons are nature dmg aka magic dmg so ye

[dense bramble]

Only dh debuff

[hollow escarp]

monk is phys

[warm parcel]

O yea DH one buffs poisons monks for rup and autos and mut

[balmy condor]

Monk debuff scales the rest of it technically

[limber lion]

Ye we're reliant on having both of them

[balmy condor]

But dh buffs envenom and stuff

[limber lion]

Such is the sad life of a hybrid damage dealer

[brazen rampart]

by the time we get a second legendary who knows what else will change

[hollow escarp]

so bring a dh tank, monk healer and another enha dps

maybe a shadow priest with Twin legendary

[frosty bridge]

That would imply i play sin in m+

[hollow escarp]

to PI you

[dense bramble]

If it was released now

[limber lion]

and 17 priests to have 100% uptime on PI

[balmy condor]

[stoic needle]

Zoldyck + doomblade, dashing+doomblade, or duskwalkers + zoldyck/doom

[hollow escarp]

was thinking about M+ but that works as well

[stoic needle]

I don't think there's a definitive answer there are a lot of viable combos

[limber lion]

I don't even sim WFT anymore because I never even see the dumby spec in game

[balmy condor]

Duskwalkers

[limber lion]

Not sure when I last saw an enha

[hollow escarp]

last time I got PI on M+ was when I got 5 rolls on my outlaw , not sure how and why the priest was tracking that

[gentle gyro]

duskwalkers + doomblade

[limber lion]

It's always just restos or eles

Especially now that Eles got buffed by quite a bit

[spice spire]

Duskwalkers

[frosty bridge]

dont stop

im almost there

[final ferry]

can you actually play sin in m+ or must you go for outlaw for high keys?

[stoic needle]

Why would you not want to have the most banger single target CD on a 1min CD

[warm parcel]

Must is relative my man

[balmy condor]

Cause it’s not 1 min

[gentle gyro]

i would like it just so i can NOT sync it with flag anyways cause now the cd is too low

[warm parcel]

Does OL perform better? Quite likely

[balmy condor]

And also aren’t you always mr big envenom man

What’s with you

[warm parcel]

Are you dead weight as assa? Not really

[stoic needle]

Isn't it 60-65s?

[balmy condor]

Dashing envenom crit + doomblade

[civic trellis]

How is IQD trinket for sin?

[balmy condor]

Cmon man

[stoic needle]

Vendetta make envenoms big

[balmy condor]

It’s ok

[stoic needle]

I'll just gear for 15% more crit

[hollow escarp]

unless you Inervete your healer

[spice spire]

Nonstop GIGA envenoms or GIGA envenoms every minute? Come on dog

[balmy condor]

It’s like 70ish, and then you’ll hit downtime

[spice spire]

Toxic

[civic trellis]

Is there a big difference between doomblade and the execute lego for sludge?

[stoic needle]

I just don't like dashing, sue me

[sick scarab]

I hate that sepsis conduit sucks ass

[balmy condor]

Doomblade does more pretty sure

[balmy condor]

Does it

[hollow escarp]

I had situations when it simmed better

[balmy condor]

Seemed pretty close to me

Tisu also had it sim higher

[gentle gyro]

[stoic needle]

It's no lashing scars

[sick scarab]

I will sim it now again

Yep

Scars is good sepsis is mhe

[civic trellis]

Thanks 🙂

[balmy condor]

Scars is crazy tho

Like scars is it’s own thing

[spice spire]

I’m going to switch from venthyr out of spite 🙂
Can’t drink the koolaid my guys

[sick scarab]

Exaclty

[civic trellis]

How difficulty is sins vs outlaw/sub? Trying to learn it in 1/2 days

ST purely

[balmy condor]

Much easier

[civic trellis]

Nice 🙂

Thanks

[glacial quarry]

i find sin really easy in ST and really fun to optimise in AoE

[balmy condor]

Maintain everything, slam cooldowns as they come up, win

[stoic needle]

@spice spire enjoy being suboptimal

[balmy condor]

The dream

[low prism]

I see some ppl with EP on sludge , is it better for this fight ?

[spice spire]

I don’t need a worse covenant for that, I already am

[balmy condor]

Can be, yes

[glacial quarry]

it's pretty much what i love in specs, simple ST, then skill ceiling AoEs that are fun in dungeons

[gentle gyro]

may I introduce you to paladin

press whatever button glows

[balmy condor]

No u may not

[stoic needle]

I want deathly shadows to be good for sin so badly

[spice spire]

That’s also frost dk 🙂

[civic trellis]

For necro, i wanna run two potency conduits. One of them will be WPS, the other one can be fractures? I think is the one that sims higher for me

Idk i am missing a conduit tho

[gentle gyro]

hey he said he likes easy st specs with ae ceiling

[balmy condor]

Yep those are the two

[gentle gyro]

ah wait ret has no ae ceiling either

[warm parcel]

But rets the opposite of that

[stoic needle]

Vanish into a deathly shadows NS envenom crit

[warm parcel]

Doing the 1min build properly takes some thinking

And aoe is literally onebutton

[civic trellis]

Yday in SLG a ret pulling 24k dps at pull

2 buttons

[hollow escarp]

you go caroling with divine toll

[gentle gyro]

i have literally no idea about ret, i'm just parroting my guildies

[glacial quarry]

Furry assassination is my other fave melee spec

[subtle kiln]

frost dk takes planning to have max breath uptime.

[gentle gyro]

my paladin has been specced to retri for around ~10 minutes for his entire existence

[warm parcel]

If rets play with the 1min build its fairly strict like sub dfa was in legion

And as theres slight rng in your hp gen, like sub with cps, its quite similar honestly

[final ferry]

Can someone tell me why mastery is bad for assa?

[civic trellis]

They need pvp trinkets to be viable tho, dont they?

[warm parcel]

All the prep for one big pump

I suppose the badge makes the build a lot stronger

[limber lion]

It doesn't scale very well /s

[glacial quarry]

Pala has only 1 spec tho, just 3 different flavours of it

[limber lion]

For real though, the other stats are just so much better. They bring more value.

[glacial quarry]

Every pala spec does crazy healing, crazy dmg, wings and everything dies/lives

[frosty cobalt]

I don’t know if it is just me but sin in raid is such a relaxing rotation. Just keep those bleeds up!

[limber lion]

Mastery will see an increase in numbers and value when our ilvl and stats get inflated again in 9.3

[warm parcel]

Theres a reason Ive said assa is the proge spec for rog

[thin inlet]

What’s WPS not played assa this expac

[warm parcel]

Its really simple

[limber lion]

Assa is bae

[civic trellis]

Well-placed steel

[limber lion]

Do mechanics and still do dps

Big

[thin inlet]

the shiv one right?

[stoic needle]

Mastery make envenom big

[limber lion]

Yes sir.

[stoic needle]

Therefore

[thin inlet]

ok ty

[stoic needle]

Mastery good

[glacial quarry]

Most melee specs are really easy now though, tbf

[limber lion]

Lies

Do not believe this man's lies

[warm parcel]

Assa is not about easy

Its about being lax and forgiving

[stoic needle]

Don't lie to the people

[gentle gyro]

sin rogue is a lot

maybe easy

but not forgiving

lmao

[civic trellis]

Mastery is not that bad on assa right? Because it sucks for outlaw/sub

[warm parcel]

And requires so much less constant thinking than others

wym

[stoic needle]

It's definitely forgiving

[warm parcel]

If you have to move out of boss range middance as sub

Youre done

[limber lion]

Yeh and you can actually focus more on doing the mechanics properly instead of focusing on minmaxing your dps

[warm parcel]

As assa?

Oh no I may have lost 5 energy due to capping

[thin inlet]

outlaw is quite a bit harder at least if you play necro which adds a lot of difficulty

[limber lion]

Assa doesn't get fucked in the ass like Sub/Outlaw whenever they get ghosts in Artificer

[stoic needle]

The difference between not pooling and pooling is 30 dps

How is that not forgiving

[warm parcel]

Outlaw? All my cd timings are now gone

Also OL does literally 0 dps out of range

Assa has bleeds

[civic trellis]

That's right

[limber lion]

Ye exactly

[warm parcel]

Think of fire mages

[limber lion]

You don't get punished by downtime

[warm parcel]

They just combust

[stoic needle]

You can completely butcher your shiv window and do nearly max dps

[warm parcel]

Then they can just afk and wait for combust

Affli locks

Just pump cds and then run around

[gentle gyro]

i guess we have different interpretations of "forgiving". it has more leeway for mechanics i guess

[warm parcel]

Perfect proge specs

[civic trellis]

Druids, convoque and afk 3 min

[limber lion]

Isn't that what forgiving means? What would you consider forgiving?

[stoic needle]

No you can genuinely fuck up sin and still do good damage comparatively

[fierce tulip]

speaking of shiv windows, should i just have 5 combo points ready to go before shiv and waste the shiv CP to get max envenoms?

[subtle kiln]

i am proof of this

[stoic needle]

To fucking up other specs

[civic trellis]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination WA's:
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)

[subtle kiln]

fuck up breath window.

[stoic needle]

It doesn't matter lmao

[glacial quarry]

Frost dk is so brutal for fucking up a breath window

[limber lion]

Whenever one of the scaling-boys joins the spec channel, the other one comes running behind. Are you walking in pairs or are you the same person? @warm parcel @subtle kiln

[warm parcel]

Now if youre venthyr it does change assa a little. As now flag requires actual activity from you

[glacial quarry]

Next tier I'm torn between feral and ass as main

[warm parcel]

So you really dont wanna dump ven at the wrong time

[stoic needle]

Ideally you want to envenom only at 70%+ energy which will naturally give you a good amount of energy when shiv comes up

But the CP doesn't really matter

[warm parcel]

who what

[limber lion]

Yeh that's also why it's not necessarily considered the immediate, obvious choice. NF's toolkit is tbh a lot better than Venthyr. The covenant ability is more forgiving and Soulshape is the best signature ability in the game.

A lot of top rogues also play Necro because you don't get punished for using it "wrong"

[warm parcel]

Thats tru. The soulbinds and shape are just miles better

But if theres any chance for assa to see play next tier, its going to be cause of flag + ven doing work

[glacial quarry]

being venthyr means you might actually get an lfg invite tho

[rigid tartan]

is this a thing?!

[warm parcel]

Otherwise its the same as this tier 👉

[limber lion]

You can ask @marble hemlock

Probably has a lot more reasons behind it than just the simplicity of it, of course.

[limber lion]

[slender berry]

seliathan is just a hipster he was necro before the changes

[subtle kiln]

the boss dmg this week is encouraging on wcl

[vestal wren]

Seli proved that ovenant pick barely matters

[limber lion]

Yeh exactly, that's my point

It's not that big of a deal which covenant you play.

[subtle kiln]

seli is also cracked at this game.

[limber lion]

If the class is shit, the class is shit.

[gloomy fern]

all who played rogue in a somewhat top guild was necro to begin with though

[slender berry]

yea my point was just that the choice isnt because of specific reasons its just that it doesnt matter that much

[limber lion]

If the player is bad, he'll perform bad.

[warm parcel]

I mean in general you can play whatever. Im just coming from the very topend perspective

[limber lion]

Yep.

[warm parcel]

Where bench is much more likely to greet you the moment youre not the best for x

[subtle kiln]

perspective is always important. my guild was happy to help me get back to rogue after they realized i was miserable on UH. i log the dk for one fight a week.

[marble hemlock]

ehh, you actually get punished quite a bit 😛

casting bonespiek on the same target twice by accident, or on the targets that die last, usually means you get way fewer casts in now

[warm parcel]

Enjoyment is always #1 🙂

[vestal wren]

People start benching people for the same things in lower end Guilds too. It's not uncommon anymore to force meta picks

[final star]

Yellow gang

[marble hemlock]

necro was a lot more forgiving to play in that regard before the patch, but now that SBS is a meaningful part of your aoe gameplay, using it correctly is quite a bit harder than just pressing ER/sepsis on CD and not really having to worry or play around it all that much

[limber lion]

Oh yeah, maybe I was thinking more in the likes of 9.0. Definitely more punishing now with the higher instant damage.

[dense bramble]

Did I just heard MASTERY?

[subtle kiln]

i think it’s also difficult to find guilds mid CE prog that understand enjoyment is typically better for health of raid than meta

[stoic needle]

So let's theorycraft the best shield damage setup for sin on SKS. I'm thinking theotar mfd NS. The question is, doomblade or MA, double potency or wasteland propriety?

[marble hemlock]

best shield dmg setup for assa is to spec sub

[civic trellis]

Finally i have some use

for that neck 😄

[subtle kiln]

best setup is locks and mages

[marble hemlock]

nah

[civic trellis]

with MA

[stoic needle]

My gear is dogshit for sub I guarantee I won't do more damage

[slender berry]

most important shield dmg setup is get 2 good on use trinkets

[marble hemlock]

subrogue smokes mages and WLs

[strange python]

cant seem to understand why my opener changes every time i change gears when I quick sim

should I just follow the wowhead one?

[subtle kiln]

i know. but now shield is pretty irrelevant

[marble hemlock]

youd think so, and yet we wiped to it this week

[subtle kiln]

fucking wwaugh

[marble hemlock]

no hunters, so suddenly wildspirits was missing

[limber lion]

But guilds still progressing whilst the tier is almost done encourages stress in people. They want to get CE before the tier ends, so they end up shooting themselves in the foot by forcing people to swap specs/classes and just ruining the overall raiding atmosphere.

[warm parcel]

Opener changes cause rogue has built in rng into cp gen

[slender berry]

we only get 1 shield per phase now so we can use all cds on 1st shield, simplifies it

[warm parcel]

You cant macro the opener

[final star]

The guild I'm in cleared slg yesterday

[subtle kiln]

deletes infexious cast sequence macro

[strange python]

for example https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/je7CpDPDjC4W5H8Hyt7phz usually its mute snd mute garrote flag rapture

now it assumes i have ambush

[final star]

You're 190

[warm parcel]

no

you got a bs proc

so it uses it as it should

[final star]

It is a blindside proc

[strange python]

oh but what if I dont

[limber lion]

I wouldn't worry about the rotation too much when you're 35 ilvl's short.

[final star]

It's a sample of one iteration

[strange python]

i see.

[warm parcel]

yea the sample is literally one pull

[limber lion]

It might change up when you get more gear.

[warm parcel]

as if this were a singular pull of a boss

[drifting light]

Good mourning for those on one more day of fucking plaguefal farm

[subtle kiln]

if you rerun the sim 5 times it’ll have 5 differnt openers

[warm parcel]

It may*

[limber lion]

Probably won't

Maybe like 1-2 different openers

[final star]

I wouldn't worry

[subtle kiln]

differnt could be cps generated, etc

[final star]

At 190 ilvl you're gonna change stats so frequently

[subtle kiln]

button presses may or may not

[final star]

By getting new gear

[limber lion]

I don't think the apl currently changes up the rotation based on CP gains.

[strange python]

so I should just follow the general pull on wowhead yes?

[limber lion]

It does the same stuff whether or not you're specced into Vigor or DS and whether or not you get 2 or 4 cp out of your mutilate

[subtle kiln]

it will make sure snd won’t drop early

[warm parcel]

You should learn the general priority

Its all about whats more important to press

[subtle kiln]

yup

[strange python]

copy, and flagellation before 5 cp combo finisher generally?

[subtle kiln]

clean up the UI make sure you can see the important stuff

[limber lion]

Yup

[dense bramble]

Got a little boner

[limber lion]

[warm parcel]

In this opener sample the flag happens at 3 or 4 cp

Depending on whether the ambush crit(didnt bother to look)

[subtle kiln]

before rupture i’m assuming

[warm parcel]

Again the general rule is to flag as soon as possible

But not at 0 cp

And it was also time for you to get your first rup up

So thats the combined set of priorities that made it cast it now

[civic trellis]

Does sins change rotation with and without doomblade?

[limber lion]

Yeh like I said, pretty sure the opener stays the same every time regardless of CP gains or vigor/ds.

[dense bramble]

I just love mastery :(

[limber lion]

It only changes up after the opener is done.

Only then it starts building up to 5-6 cp with DS.

Blindside being the only rng thing that might spice it up a bit.

[limber lion]

I also enjoy doing negative damage.

[civic trellis]

Wanna try assa but i dont have the lego

[warm parcel]

depends on your "opener" classification

if you count the vanish period as the part of the opener too

[civic trellis]

Idk if it will change the prio rota i'll learn now when i get the lego

[warm parcel]

theres some rng there too

[oak jungle]

with the MA talent is it better to mut from stealth instead of ambush?

[limber lion]

Yeh, afaik the sim does either shiv - vanish - muti - env - muti or shiv - vanish - muti - muti - env

But pretty much the same amount of casts and same abilities during the window, just in a different order.

[limber lion]

Yes.

!mut

[prisma monolith]

Ambush is currently only used from blindside/sepsis proc, not from stealth.
The reasoning is a little complicated, but the most important of them is the difference in combo points on crit (up to 4 vs 3).
Some other factors to consider are increased poison applications, blindside, and doomblade. This is true for all talent combinations and legendaries.

[oak jungle]

ah shit ty

[dense bramble]

who do i have to lick to get haste/mastery as bis stats?

[gloomy fern]

36 dps increase on wednesday, soon 7k :poghypers:

rip nitro

[final star]

[tropic drum]

!guide

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
RH: https://www.ravenholdt.net/guides/assassination-rogue-guide-shadowlands-raid-dps/
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide

[gentle gyro]

does anyone know whether you need to enter torghast on a specific minmum level for followers to appear in there?

or can i just run layer 1 a bunch of times

[subtle kiln]

nope. just keep resetting TC

[gentle gyro]

any specific reason for tc?

[subtle kiln]

depending which 2 instances are up, TC can be quicker to find them

there’s one instance (i forgot which off top of my head) that resets super fast because you know almost instantly if they are there

[civic trellis]

Is there any special reason to use ambush besides of being more efficient to gen cp than mutilate?

[gentle gyro]

uh, other way around+

mut is more effective at generating cp

we use ambush only out of bs proc

[civic trellis]

Yeah but why, if mutilate is better

Free energy cost?

[gloomy fern]

cost no energy when blind side procs?!

[thin inlet]

ye was wondering that too

[gentle gyro]

energy / damage

[thin inlet]

oh

right

[subtle kiln]

read the blind side tooltip

[thin inlet]

it doesn’t cost energy

[subtle kiln]

heh

[thin inlet]

that makes a lot of sense

only read about assa on here

[civic trellis]

Can't read 😄

[thin inlet]

never played it this expac

[digital zodiac]

Do you guys think 220 Dreadfire + 210 phial,
or 220 dreadfire + 220 Heraldry will be better (considering vers isnt BIS stat for us) ?
And also if we have 3/4 other heraldrys in the raid

[chrome mirage]

Sim it

[digital zodiac]

can you add in # of others with trinket in the sim?

[sinful cradle]

yes

[digital zodiac]

O

sweet

[chrome mirage]

Theres an option at the bottom

[digital zodiac]

lovely

[thin inlet]

is there any heuristics on usage of SBS as assa

is it the same as for outlaw?

[hexed dock]

im considering playing zoldyck instead of doomblade for sire mythic progression, do you guys think its worth since a hard part of the fight is in execute range?

[thin inlet]

it could be

[stoic needle]

zold is bis for sire

[thin inlet]

cause the important damage is as you say during the execute

so I would assume it would be

[limber lion]

You definitely want to play Zoldyck for progression. You can meme a bit with Doomblade after you've killed it and you're reclearing

You'll have less overall damage, but overall is not what you need on that fight anyways

[hexed dock]

alright thanks for the confirmation

[thin inlet]

so anyone know if SBS is same heuristics as outlaw

[dawn bronze]

heuristics?

[stoic needle]

[upbeat umbra]

Are you asking if sbs does the same dps for sin as if outlaw was using it? I'm confused.

[final star]

he's asking if you use SBS the same was as outlaw

well in a pretentious way anyway

[upbeat umbra]

I know you push the button at some point in your rotation for both.

Probably at different times cause the specs are different.

[digital zodiac]

anyone got a decent weakaura for Flag?

[stoic needle]

I'm pretty sure both specs use sbs as a replacement for their main generator when they can

Because it's efficient and does good dmg

[meager yacht]

Is there a way I can see the 3 specs head to head for CN in terms of damage?

[stoic needle]

Warcraftlogs.com

[upbeat umbra]

but you gotta scroll down some till you get out of the 10 PI dps range

[stoic needle]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/26#class=Rogue&aggregate=amount&dataset=95

[pliant roost]

Is there a macro to focus kick but then kick target of no focus is active?

[final star]

yes

but i'm not home to give it to you

[daring pecan]

it's something like
/cast [@focus, exists] Kick; Kick

[pliant roost]

Ah nice.. yh ones in IV dont seem to work that way

Ok thx will give it a go

[cobalt kindle]

@hexed dock play doomblade its better than execute

[hexed dock]

are you sure, during last phase aswell?

[final star]

it's better dps overall

[cobalt kindle]

yes its better in p3 too

i havent foud a log where a execute leg do more damage then doomblade leg in p3

[hexed dock]

im gonna check logs more

[cobalt kindle]

yes you can look yourself and choose 🙂

[stoic needle]

No it's not

If you sort by p3 damage zoldyck is 3% better or so

[cobalt kindle]

well show me then

i havent found myself and i only tested doombalde this week by doing 1.23m in p3

[final star]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/rankings/26#boss=2407&metric=bossdps&class=Rogue&spec=Assassination

I'd rather take execute on prog

and doomblade on farm

[thorny shore]

how should i use flag on my opener in a st scenario

Right after first mut?

[final star]

mut > snd > mut > garrote > flaggelation > rupture > vendetta + shiv > vanish > mut > envenom

changes depending on blindside proc too

[pseudo hamlet]

!guide

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
RH: https://www.ravenholdt.net/guides/assassination-rogue-guide-shadowlands-raid-dps/
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide

[faint canopy]

!stats

[prisma monolith]

**Shadowlands: ** Haste > Versatility => Critical Strike => Mastery

[strange python]

Two questions. Is Kyrian so bad that I need to switch and is Doomblade worth crafting for M+ or stick to Zoldyck/MA?

[brave egret]

Are there any1 that can explain to my why you wanna mutilate over ambush from stealth on opener?

[cunning wyvern]

no and stick with zold

[unreal laurel]

!mut

[prisma monolith]

Ambush is currently only used from blindside/sepsis proc, not from stealth.
The reasoning is a little complicated, but the most important of them is the difference in combo points on crit (up to 4 vs 3).
Some other factors to consider are increased poison applications, blindside, and doomblade. This is true for all talent combinations and legendaries.

[strange python]

chance for more cps

[brave egret]

but you are going to extend SnD nomatter what so the extra CP dont do anything and ambush do more dmg even with the doomblade leggo

[iron orchid]

more cps, more poison procs, chance for a blindside proc

[pliant roost]

How does it matter though if ur going to use it on SnD anyway

[cunning wyvern]

the extra cp let you use finishers earlier

[pliant roost]

Which will get auto refrwahes if it is one or 4 cp

[iron orchid]

if you play doomblade, you also get the dot going

yes they have

it's a 0.3% gain when playing doomblade

not much tho

[pliant roost]

Cp are irrelevant

[stoic needle]

Cp are relevant

[true fractal]

Hello guys, may I ask how does currently playing assa as a vent opposed to kyrian feel like in raiding envi?

[pliant roost]

Maybe poisons make it so, dont know

[cunning wyvern]

In that case poison application rate and double crit rate stills stand

[iron orchid]

cp are less relevant than before 9.0.5 if you spend the first ones on snd

I kinda agree

[brave egret]

The doombalde dot will be up before first envenom no matter, so the only reason is for the chance of BS proc and 2x poison procs?

[pliant roost]

How?

[cunning wyvern]

and blindside if you play that

[pliant roost]

Yh

[stoic needle]

You get energy starved in the opener without lust you may not get your first env off before 2cp snd falls off

Doomblade dot works like ignite so the damage adds up

[pliant roost]

Wud never happen imo

Even on one cp

[stoic needle]

It's definitely possible especially in an aoe situation

[pliant roost]

Not aaying ita npt right

[cunning wyvern]

Kinda depends on your stats esp in AOE

[pliant roost]

Just that cp in not a factor

[cunning wyvern]

It is one just not for every situation

[stoic needle]

Between the poisons and the accumulating damage from doomblade dot the gap between muti and ambush is a lot smaller

[pseudo hamlet]

I have a question about Opener with MA.

Wouldn't it be better to put Mutilate BEFORE(between 7&8) the Vendetta(and Shiv) and then go Shiv(get 4-5CP) -> Vanish -> Envenom?

[stoic needle]

It's been tested a lot and it's not much of a difference either way

[stark moat]

ps playstyle

[stoic needle]

Building to 4/5 cp before vanish definitely feels better

[stark moat]

^^

[pseudo hamlet]

Yeah, that's what I am trying to do always. Vanish -> Envenom feels nice 😄

[stark moat]

faster pace too

[iron orchid]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/9mxLSQqN6j49jnG2dM5RsX

sudden fractures 213

Sorry for hitting you with my necro shit

[stoic needle]

[iron orchid]

look at that EP simming higher than bs

[stoic needle]

How TF

How does it feel having actual weapons now btw

[iron orchid]

better

I still hope i get one in the vault

[coral imp]

damn thats tough

[frigid kestrel]

Feels good beating the meta

[stoic needle]

I'm praying for a pox now

[coral imp]

do you play outlaw?

[stoic needle]

Doesn't it!!!

[coral imp]

whats the pox for 😡

[onyx wind]

Nah u always get env off

[onyx wind]

Because of blindside talent

[stoic needle]

i would like to play outlaw more for boosts and bc ma+ks is lots of fun

[stoic needle]

its not always guaranteed in aoe

[onyx wind]

yes but u dont use mut in AoE

XD

[coral imp]

u do if its under 4

[onyx wind]

so it must be for ST hes asking

[frigid kestrel]

God yes, every-time i see a mage or Boomie im like

https://tenor.com/view/count-adhemar-its-go-time-a-knights-tale-knight-stare-gif-11506631

[onyx wind]

we are talking opener

[coral imp]

oh derp

[stoic needle]

you do mut in less than 4 targets tho

[onyx wind]

not in the opener man...

not when you otherwise couldve used an ambush aswell

[stoic needle]

i mean you dont always run subterfuge in aoe

some people run NS with MA legendary

or just NS period

[pliant roost]

That opener is based on st.. aoe is a bit irrelevnat otherwise as you say, talents would be different anyway

[frank sail]

Need a hand for Sire P1... were talking HC rather than Myth.. When should i be using Flagellation, as i dont want the pickup for blood prince to ruin my CP spending, At the mo, ive been popping Shadowstep as soon as he lets go and then blasting flagellation giving me the most time to get out CP/Envm before the next 'Lift up'

[thin inlet]

in what way is this pretentious

[coral imp]

I would do what you are doing already, just get your rupture and refresh garrote before going up

[signal sluice]

boys any pages for rotation for raids? 🙂

[coral imp]

#assassination message

[stoic needle]

So I just took a quick glance at the top logs for assassination in p3 and it's kinda all over the place. I think this is because zoldyck damage in p3 is heavily dependent on if you get 2 vendettas in p3 and if one of the vendettas lines up with your guild lusting. if you do that properly zoldyck pumps hard. I think we need to wait a few more weeks for more data and for more people to build zoldyck to see for sure

[coral imp]

i kinda regret building zoldyck low key

[vernal steeple]

hey so do we never ever ambush?

[coral imp]

only blindside proc

[serene basin]

def zoldycks has a huge impact on sire

[spice spire]

Only on blindside.
Mutilate is big brain gamer move

[stoic needle]

i don't regret building zoldyck at all tbh

[vernal steeple]

just because of the extra combo point potential right?

[frigid kestrel]

His name escapes my Tounge

[serene basin]

since sire's fight you ''have'' to switch targets, doomblade loses some value until p3

[spice spire]

Tl;dr yeah. There are other reasons but that’s the big one.

[iron orchid]

btw, tonight, ToP 20 bolstering tyrannical tragedy stream

[stoic needle]

extra combo points, because each mutilate is a chance for a blindside proc which is a free ambush, doomblade dot damage, and poison proc chance

[glacial quarry]

blindside making me put ambush on my non-stealth bars

[spice spire]

I’m ready papa

[iron orchid]

I ain't

[stoic needle]

[spice spire]

Also melee misery downed a 15 mists during storming

[coral imp]

im about to do a spires 20

[stoic needle]

doomblade is unironically good in top

[coral imp]

2nd boss with storming

[stoic needle]

fuck this shit

[spice spire]

Bullet time on hard mode

[iron orchid]

I hate tornadoes

[stoic needle]

whoever designed storming should be fired

[coral imp]

you either are in the matrix or u die

[iron orchid]

but god, do I hate spiteful shades too

[spice spire]

I actually went Doomblade in DoS and Mists because I’m a full on ape

[coral imp]

next week spiteful 🔫

[serene basin]

we take the storming affix okay compared to wwrs

[stoic needle]

doomblade in dos

[serene basin]

lol

[stoic needle]

how are you gonna pad in ardenweald without zold

[spice spire]

I didn’t :/

[stoic needle]

SMH

[spice spire]

Frost mage and UHDK GIGA rekt me

[stoic needle]

why even bother living

[iron orchid]

play MA night elf

[spice spire]

8.4K boss damage though

[iron orchid]

pro tips, shadowmeld is big win

[stoic needle]

f u and your 2nd vanish

[coral imp]

pois. katar in DoS but then bolstering

[spice spire]

Melding

[stoic needle]

apparently poisoned katar isn't shit for venthyr??

[pseudo hamlet]

Can Shadowmeld give you bonus MA? 🤔

[stoic needle]

i'm about to sim it actually

[coral imp]

is it not?

i usually switch to it only for DoS tbh

[stoic needle]

yeah there were some weird ass sims in this channel earlier

[spice spire]

It is not in whispy’s sims

[iron orchid]

on packs you can melt, stealth and then do everything as if you'd just vanished

[coral imp]

for the DUMMY THICC pulls

[spice spire]

Anyway, you’re gonna murder that key Deï

[iron orchid]

doesn't work on bosses

[main forge]

Yes, if you can get a restealth from shadowmeld.... doesn't always work.

[spice spire]

Tyrannical on ToP? What’s the worst that could happen

[pseudo hamlet]

Oh okay. Good to know. Was just using it to save my ass when tank pulls too much

[main forge]

Some trash is weird. I swear even in a shadowmeld, I'll be stuck in combat with shadowmeld.

[coral imp]

MA talent for sin in NW lets u crit the weapons at a decent rate

[iron orchid]

Well, we have not murdered a single 20+ yet, I'd be surprised if the first were ToP this week x)

[spice spire]

Other than tyran affixes are pretty lax. I mean storming sucks for an all melee group, but it was chill

[coral imp]

spiteful

[spice spire]

Plus they have the god rogue. It’s ez

[serene basin]

it does?

[coral imp]

yea, tested it

i used two orbs on two packs

hit 66 times

crit 33 times

[onyx wind]

sin seems kinda strong in 2s atm

been playing around with it a bit

[glacial quarry]

trying to decide on which legendary to go first i'm full on natalie imbruglia

[coral imp]

doomblade / MA IMO

depends what ur doing tho

@onyx wind who are u running with

[glacial quarry]

i am thinking doomblade, although i mostly m+ and people have been making good zoldyck arguments, buuuut doomblade seems great for both, and prog execute isn't an issue for this char

i'm also venthyr, if that makes a diff

[coral imp]

i honestly like MA for M+ as much as zoldyck, but zoldyck sims a bit higher

but with MA u can use it on other specs if thats ur jam

[serene basin]

says you're really good for ST

[strange python]

can any1 tell me if its worth to pool energy? and how much do i need in which situation? playing DS cuz sims say its better

[serene basin]

IMO you should at least pool some to keep the envenom buff wwith a high uptime

[unreal laurel]

You pool for envenoms outside vendetta/shiv windows

[strange python]

ok ty guys

[unreal laurel]

No problem

[coral imp]

i also tried korayn's first strike and having higher than a base of 25% crit, with MA talent, but only the MA talent was critting with the weapons

[cobalt kindle]

@stoic needle i got bloodlust on my second vendetta yes, it's for DK army if i remember

[stoic needle]

no, MA talent has never affected NW weapons

[cobalt kindle]

but yes it's only been out since 1week so not a lot of test, i will try next week if i can with exec

[stoic needle]

if you mostly M+ you definitely wanna go zoldyck imo, the damage profile is good on both tyrannical and fortified weeks and just feels more 'sin' than MA does

[serene basin]

korayn i belive, tho the rest i think it depends on your crit stats

[onyx wind]

hpal/disc

[serene basin]

this was my thought

[glacial quarry]

i do want to do big dick raid dps, but i'm mostly concerned with m+ you all make it so difficult for me to decide lmao, both legendaries seem so good

[stoic needle]

you can still pump with zoldyck in raids tbh

[upbeat umbra]

you won't suck with Doomblade in M+ either

[stoic needle]

sure it's not as big as doomblade but it's by no means bad

[serene basin]

if ppl dont zerg the boss at 30% and if you have a vedetta at that time, right?

lol

[strange python]

zoldyck is best allrounder in my opinion. just go for it.

or atleast good alrounder

[stoic needle]

idk tbh I wouldn't use doomblade in M+ except in specific dungeons

unless you're running with a coordinated group

[unreal laurel]

Nadjia with double potency (lashing/Katar) simmed second highest for me behind theotar with wasteland

[upbeat umbra]

its pretty good with tyranical

[coral imp]

so it was the 50% from korayn and my base stats and not the 50 from MA talent?

[stoic needle]

its all about the pull size of the dungeon

[serene basin]

prob yeah

[lofty shell]

i'm prob going for zoldyck next, MA does feel pretty good in dungeon but i get wat you're saying oshi

[coral imp]

i heard from another rogue it was MA talent too idk

[lilac sparrow]

4800 valor no dagger

[coral imp]

il try it again now that im not NF

[signal sluice]

best talents for raids? 😄

[lofty shell]

i think they are mentioned in pins

[simple kettle]

3320021

[strange python]

just sim. but usually blindside - MA - Vig/DS - Alacrity - PB

[simple kettle]

If u dont want master assassin then go with subterfuge instead

[stoic needle]

i'd run doomblade in plaguefall, theater of pain, spires, and sanguine depths. i could definitely see a case for it in mists on tyrannical and maybe fortified because certain mobs are really dangerous. but doomblade just isnt a very good pug M+ leggo because you can't guarantee that whoever you're running with isnt gonna be trash and hold their weight in aoe so you can be a big single target pumper

[limber lion]

Subterfuge is like a 80dps downgrade on a 5min boss

So if you wanna trade that, then go for it

I'd still recommend simming yourself for specific fights if you want to minmax it further

But if you don't care, then just go full

[upbeat umbra]

DoS is another good one for doomblade but your point is valid.