I'm using Nameplate SCT
#assassination
hollow escarp
strange python
whats sbs again?
hollow escarp
and it's funny to see poisons getting parried 
stoic needle
Silly bone spike
stoic needle
and it's funny to see poisons getting parried <:PEPW:691791304723660841>
That seems like it shouldn't be possible
drowsy parcel
its wonky but fun
hollow escarp
gonna try to reproduce it now
drowsy parcel
thats my verdict on being necrolord since wednesday
stoic needle
Hit the raider target dummy
strange python
they made flag not clunky anymore and then made sbs clunky in its place
ruby birch
idk if anyone else faces this but inerva is a god at parrying
strange python
very nice of them
ruby birch
ive had pulls on her where she will parry envenom (evis before i started raiding as assa) like 2/5 times
literally popped vendetta > shiv > envenom, parried, envenom, parried
would rather get deflected at this rate
hollow escarp
Hit the raider target dummy
it was at the same time with a melee swing
strange python
Isn't it just 15% base
hollow escarp
but you can see there
strange python
for parry chance when facing boss
stoic needle
Show combat log
hollow escarp
can't find parries
celest ruin
does demon hunter debuff increase our poison damage?
balmy condor
does demon hunter debuff increase our poison damage?
yes
strange python
I've had denathrius parry ghostly strike 2 times in a row on multiple occasions and its just the most shitty feeling ever
ruby birch
can garrote get parried
hollow escarp
envenom parries are also triggering
balmy condor
can garrote get parried
I don't think so
ruby birch
i hope i never find out
hollow escarp
I never experienced bleed applications getting parried so far
balmy condor
so I don't think they're actually capable of getting parried
celest ruin
stealth abilities cant be parried iirc
hollow escarp
Crimson Tempest has, so that might get parried
ruby birch
i see makes sense honestly
drowsy parcel
back in the day when envenom got parried you would still get envenom buff
balmy condor
if it's 2 parts, then the instant could get parried, and the dot would go through
but I'm honestly not sure about the intricate details of parry logic
fallen current
After a week of necro, it’s awkward even on outlaw.
balmy condor
since it's all fucking spaghetti
fallen current
I think I’ll have to swap off it
hollow escarp
I haven't tried any key with venthyr outlaw yet
stoic needle
Delete parry
hollow escarp
in MA window
dawn ivy
can spells still get resisted?
hollow escarp
stoic needle
They should be able to
hollow escarp
they can get
stoic needle
If parry is a thing, bring back elemental resistances
dawn ivy
if my envenom can be parried i want to see a glacial spike get resisted
fallen current
Oh no
agile geode
is dauntless duelist worth to use in council?
fallen current
If parry is a thing, bring back elemental resistances
hollow escarp
is dauntless duelist worth to use in council?
yes
stoic needle
https://tenor.com/view/get-out-leave-gtfo-get-out-of-here-gif-6207127
Fuck ranged
hollow escarp
the debuff moves to a new target
hollow escarp
when you kill the first one
agile geode
nice
fallen current
Enjoy doing 0 damage in plaguefall
hollow escarp
not sure if it's intended
stoic needle
Enjoy doing 0 damage in plaguefall
Fuck ranged, I outdps them in every key anyway
stoic needle
not sure if it's intended
I'm pretty sure it is intended, it'd be pretty trash if it was only one per boss fight
hollow escarp
yeah, I guess I was interpreting the tooltip wrong
stoic needle
Nah the tooltip doesn't say anything about reapplication so I get it
dawn ivy
wait the debuff "moves" to a new target randomly or the next target you hit
dawn ivy
ok cool
hollow escarp
do you guys dot the other 2 bosses for energy regen on council?
I've never did it
and I just thought it might be a good idea
stoic needle
Just a garotte
cunning needle
wait wtf assi is actually top tier now at anything ST
looking through wclog rankings
hollow escarp
we wish
safe canyon
Currently leveling as muti. Fire mage talking shit when we started, i doubled his damage overall and tripled it on bosses. Was hilarious
sleek sparrow
cunning needle
stoic needle
OUR TIME HAS COME BROTHERS AND SISTERS
dawn ivy
we'll see better statistics over the next few weeks
cunning needle
stoic needle
hollow escarp
don't check all percentiles
stoic needle
It's only going to get better as more people get high rank sin legendaries
hollow escarp
do a 95 to exclude the PI fed logs
cunning needle
ah
cunning needle
still good on hungering!
stoic needle
Council doesn't exist
cunning needle
or sunking?
stoic needle
It's a fever dream
stoic needle
Sort by 'damage to bosses'
dawn ivy
sin became really good kinda abruptly so as time goes on better sin rogues willget the right gear, and itll go up a little bit more
cunning needle
BRB CHANGING ROLE
rapid flame
is it worth to start gearing my 180 rogue (old main)? ;D
hollow escarp
you know better
queen galleon
We are #1 or 2 for damage to bosses on every fight
sludgefist 
?
rapid flame
true, i'd still have to go through the hassle of get enough r.io on my alt to be able to pug 14/15 for gear/valor to upgrade.
verbal sparrow
crafting leges with haste crit or haste vers ??
sleek sparrow
If you have good io on your main and decent ilvl on an alt it's pretty easy to get into 14 pugs
hollow escarp
the gearing progress up to 220 is not that bad
queen galleon
Buy a pvp boost -> get 220 -> profit
hollow escarp
because you can upgrade +3 key gear to 220 if you really have to
oblique flare
Buy a pvp boost -> get 220 -> profit
you disgust me
hollow escarp
I find gearing from 140-197 harder considering how much honor you need to get all honor gear
hollow escarp
I'm selling them 
queen galleon
I've climbed 2k1 rbg on main
sleek sparrow
I find gearing from 140-197 harder considering how much honor you need to get al...
Just make a leather stack group for m0 
stoic needle
everyone buying boosts disgust me
Imagine being disgusted instead of selling them and getting rich
stiff thistle
isnt farming campaign gear fastest
ruby birch
I find gearing from 140-197 harder considering how much honor you need to get al...
actually true
oblique flare
Imagine being disgusted instead of selling them and getting rich
that's honest work
queen galleon
I mean 1400 to 1800 2c2 is 1M
ruby birch
isnt farming campaign gear fastest
how do you get the renown
stoic needle
I've made 350k on m+ boosts this week
oblique flare
ye
hollow escarp
yep
queen galleon
yep
stiff thistle
how do you get the renown
it costs 100 a piece no? also some of them come at 197 already
hollow escarp
pvp boosts are so expensive
ruby birch
WHAT
hollow escarp
and if you have a low win rate, you are fucked
hollow escarp
because you will get a bigger price
queen galleon
Earlier in xpac
oblique flare
ruby birch
it costs 100 a piece no? also some of them come at 197 already
can you buy the gear at any renown level?
hollow escarp
a +10 armor stack is like 85k gold
ruby birch
dude
strange python
btw - am I crazy or is the venthyr campaign better and more fun to play then Nightfae?
oblique flare
boosting is free real estate man
stiff thistle
can you buy the gear at any renown level?
Pretty sure its locked behind campaign progress so yes I think so
ruby birch
i need to start selling
stoic needle
I can't believe I ever actually farmed leather and picked herbs
queen galleon
But guys don't start dreaming
stoic needle
What a bunch of wasted time
queen galleon
Community who find you client take a huge cut
stoic needle
I should've just got my rio up and boosted
queen galleon
- advertiser take a cut
balmy condor
I would buy a boost to have this channel go back on topic
ruby birch
so, back to getting parried
queen galleon
I would buy a boost to have this channel go back on topic
Like for real it's just 1M to get 220 in one day
so much time saved
you don't even have to play
oblique flare
on alts i can understand it tbf
queen galleon
Yeah on alt
balmy condor
Like for real it's just 1M to get 220 in one day
really, who?
oblique flare
though there are people going full boost on their mains
inland heath
what is the opener for aoe with master assasin?
hollow escarp
what is the opener for aoe with master assasin?
the same
ruby birch
really, who?
joe
stoic needle
I thought it was bofa?
ruby birch
for campaign you need renown though
queen galleon
20th run for vial wish me luck 
ruby birch
I thought it was bofa?
are you sure it wasnt sawcon?
queen galleon
not even the ring looted
stiff thistle
I got 36 in 2 days without finishing campaign
queen galleon
sleek sparrow
But you need ilvl to get to lfr
stiff thistle
exdee
hollow escarp
ohh, you guys still farming phial?
stiff thistle
true
queen galleon
Yeah
strange python
<:Sadge:801870484915879976>
queen galleon
got it on first run but tank wanted it for dps spec !!!!!
ruby birch
that's after selling a couple phials on my DH
stoic needle
I've seen 3 phials this week
queen galleon
so he kept it !!! (kill me)
stoic needle
I need a pox man
inland heath
there are 8 targets i you just do normal single target burst ? o.0 @hollow escarp
sleek sparrow
Ofc he did, he was probably only tanking it for faster picks lol
stiff thistle
pre 9.0.5 phial sadge
https://i.imgur.com/OJNwhtb.png
stoic needle
I'm so tired of running pf, it's like sire kills now I know the whole dungeon by heart
Where my CDs come up
hollow escarp
there are 8 targets i you just do normal single target burst ? o.0 <@!3091246093...
no, garrote 1, garrote 2, garrote 3
you said aoe
stoic needle
FOK FOK CT
inland heath
but i am playing nightstalker with MA leg
hollow escarp
ohh
sleek sparrow
ruby birch
FOK into CT still works no?
hollow escarp
night stalker also works on bleeds, just saying
stoic needle
CT gets snapshotted with NS
inland heath
yea but the garrote its not empowered at all
stoic needle
So you want to hold 5 cp and CT from stealth
Then fok rup fok rup
Toss a garotte in there
hollow escarp
I wanna try nightstalker now lol
stoic needle
It's actually not that much worse than subterfuge
inland heath
seems alot more fun than subterfuge
hollow escarp
garrote damage in m+ is pretty good with Subt
it's usually garrote or CT top damage
hollow escarp
Theotar, Master Poisoner 
stoic needle
hollow escarp
gonna try this in some boost keys
stoic needle
Don't int your boosts 
hollow escarp
but I usually wanna play safe and have good damage so I break this "sin is bad in m+" reputation
hollow escarp
Don't int your boosts <:FeelsWeird:585739277120307220>
up to +12s 😉
hollow escarp
or ToP
rapid lance
do we use elaborate planning now?
rapid lance
ah ok
livid temple
Idk why but for me nightstalker sims like 130 more than subterfuge? I'm not complaining because getting Giga CT with MA and sub is funny as hell, watching my opener burst for like 12k
prisma perch
what is the better ST leggy DB or DS?
true imp
is sin viable in m+ compared to outlaw?
balmy condor
Idk why but for me nightstalker sims like 130 more than subterfuge? I'm not comp...
happens sometimes
true imp
really dont like outlaw aoe rotation
oblique flare
sin is good, doesn't beat outlaw as far as i know, but very solid
true imp
probs better ST on the bosses though right?
prisma perch
what is the better ST leggy DB or DS?
livid temple
I mean the outlaw rotation is just stale bread to me. It's so basic the only thing mildly fun about outlaw is KS and MA but then you cuck your ST so hard sometimes I fine it not worth running...
true imp
yeah, i find multidotting way more fun
livid temple
I beat our guilds outlaw on our huntsman kill and inerva kill so I was pretty happy about that, he beat me on Kael but if you aren't looking at boss damage on Kael then you are hard trolling
prisma perch
doomblade and scoundrel are in the faq
livid temple
So I'm guessing when we can equip two legendaries it will be Doomblade (if it doesn't get nerfed 🤞 ) and scoundrel? Or would Zold have more synergy with DB
strange python
So I'm guessing when we can equip two legendaries it will be Doomblade (if it do...
is it confirmed that we can equip 2 with 9.1?
ebon tapir
No
stoic needle
doomblade + zold seems like it would be the play because execute is really powerful
but dashing + zold would be some giga dps probably
livid temple
No but I'd be surprised if that wasn't part of the raid progression, like 'gather 200 shards of domination from these 3 bosses and then you will be able to equip two legendaries'
ebon tapir
I really don't want to waste conduit energy to sim. I have to ask, is Sudden Fractures really as good as Hero damage says it is? Even on AoE?
waxen nebula
I haven't tried any key with venthyr outlaw yet
It's good
Ran plaguefall with a venthyr outlaw, he was doing really good
strange python
good night folks - have fun
placid adder
Venthy outlaw for keys yikers
hollow escarp
yeah, imagine doing 200 less dps overall
hollow escarp
min maxing off spec
stiff thistle
digusting
void pecan
I say as I'm still nf and cant decide if switching is worth
hollow escarp
Ambidexterity Theotar 
NF is still fine
I wouldn't have changed if Venthyr didn't sim 5% more for me
but I have nice assa gear overall
stiff thistle
for assass single target swapping would be worth, but if youre doing m+ aswell
maybe not, up 2 u
id say, play what is most fun 🙂
void pecan
I'm not a high key andy
queen galleon
hollow escarp
at least you had fun
stiff thistle
playing for fun is what its all about 🙂 🙂
hollow escarp
well, they didn't nerf sub
stiff thistle
was it ever better in pve
hollow escarp
I think it was first weeks
stiff thistle
i mean hasnt sub just been pvp class for ages now
queen galleon
Subbed 
I mean at this point, despite monk and dk I don't know why even try to play melee in raid environment
like what was the last tier where melee > ranged
subtle tundra
holy fuck deeper stratagem feels so dogshit to play with
queen galleon
^ this
livid temple
Just level 4 rogues so you have one in each covenant
stiff thistle
same, sims higher but feels like shit, same with ghostly strike on outlaw for ST
subtle tundra
why would sub get pi
queen galleon
Sub pi ? 
livid temple
I agree about DS but my min maxing self won't let me take vigor even though it's only a 50 dps loss
subtle tundra
never said first 5 seconds
stiff thistle
I agree about DS but my min maxing self won't let me take vigor even though it's...
it might sim higher, but can you play it in a way that gets you higher dps in reality?
subtle tundra
i hate playing with deeper stratagem overall
hollow escarp
it's only slow in the first few seconds
stiff thistle
if it feels like shit ure prob playing worse with it, idk
hollow escarp
you don't play Alacrity?
subtle tundra
i hate having to use 3 generators to get to spend combo points
tacit forum
I found that if you are not Venthyr it’s not worth to run DS
The extra energy is way too big of a deal
hollow escarp
you cast vendetta pretty soon anyway, and by the time it's done, you already have 5 alacrity stacks
queen galleon
Guildmate is NF and Vigor sim higher for him
for me, a venthyr, it's like +50 for ds
hollow escarp
DS simmed better for me even when I was NF
stiff thistle
I think personally preference will make you play better even if something sims +50 dps higher by a robot
doesnt mean u will gain 50 in reality
tacit forum
DS simmed better for me even when I was NF <:PepeLaugh:614128160220643338>
Same here but still
queen galleon
Most of the times I get 2 and sometimes 3
stoic needle
deeper strat is good
i want sin to be as slow as possible
give me 30apm
25
let's go
tacit forum
give me 30apm
Fair if you hitting like a truck
tacit forum
Is probably a beginner friendly talent
rapid lance
do most use subt or MA on m+?
stoic needle
i think vigor is def the beginner friendly one
tacit forum
Cuz spamming mut and envenom is not good
queen galleon
What's your crit % on envenoms btw
queen galleon
I feel like my dps is garbage or not bcs of envenoms crit
hollow escarp
I think I have 25% crit on my raiding set
stoic needle
26% crit gang
hollow escarp
35% in m+
queen galleon
23% crit andy
nocturne hawk
Cuz spamming mut and envenom is not good
Whispyr just simed it, it's ~30dps diff between spamming v pooling
stoic needle
no that's amazing
queen galleon
how much haste do you have kojack
stoic needle
how tf
tacit forum
Whispyr just simed it, it's ~30dps diff between spamming v pooling
Yeah Assassination is very forgiven
hollow escarp
how tf
https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-gb/character/eu/sylvanas/kojaak got the m+ gear on armory right now
stiff thistle
needs more haste my man
hollow escarp
it's fine for m+
tacit pilot
so with venth conv now is our opener still the same as the pin?
hollow escarp
I have stacks of gems in my bags just to change haste to crit whenever I switch content 
hollow escarp
top m+ players don't really play sin
hollow escarp
well I'm top 100 world, does that count? 
hollow escarp
haste is more valuable single target
fleet anchor
Changing covenants for 30 dps 👌 Not pressing buttons occasionally for 30 dps
hollow escarp
Ion was discussing about it on an interview
and also saying that Torghast is a source of inspiration for tier sets
queen galleon
I miss having to mix last tier and current tier
stoic needle
<https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-gb/character/eu/sylvanas/kojaak> got the m+ gear...
gah dayum
man i wish i'd gone crit/haste on my zoldycks 
velvet nacelle
how high are you guys spiking on your openers?
velvet nacelle
yeah with subterfuge i was regularly opening over 10k, switching to deeper and MA seems to slow down the opener quite a bit
sustain is a lot better so i'm not complaining
slow marsh
Where my 29.5% crit gang at?
velvet nacelle
just curious what other people were seeing
rapid lance
what's the opener with subt on m+?
brittle pawn
just curious what other people were seeing
10-15k
hollow escarp
what's the opener with subt on m+?
garrote 3 targets
stoic needle
10-12k here
hollow escarp
or 4
rapid lance
ah k
tacit pilot
so with venth conv now is our opener still the same as the pin?
hollow escarp
pretty sure the pin is updated for the venthyr changes
tacit pilot
ah ok it doesnt say when to use it XD
velvet nacelle
before rupture?
hollow escarp
flag damage is based on cp spent, so using rupture after Flag is better
sinful fable
So, with Master Assa leggo, what does the opener look like in m+? Still just 3 garrote into rupt+CT?
so basicly just do the same except everything crits? 😄 feelsgood
sinful fable
Do you ever re-cast CT before the duration is gone?
hollow escarp
depends on mob HP because you could pandemic the dot
but tbf, the gameplay is so hectic in M+ sometimes that I use CT just to apply it on some mobs that didn't get it yet
example the first room on Gorechop corridor in ToP
sinful fable
yeah thats what I felt during my runs now trying to learn assa, my trash damage was semi scuffed at times
like garrote x 3 into rupt and some fok->ct->more fok+rupt
stoic needle
refreshing it in pandemic is def preferred to letting it fall off
dont be afraid to drop 2-3cp ruptures into stuff
sinful fable
oh are we basicly using it for energy in aoe?
stoic needle
energy and damage
hollow escarp
5 cp ruptures are often wasted because mobs don't survive 30 sec
you do get energy back
dark vigil
.oO ( 
)
sinful fable
oh, so I guess just FoK and use rupt with however many cp's you got then huh
unless its bigger mobs ofc
hollow escarp
even on bigger mobs it's not that bad because you can always reapply rupture in pandemic window
you will be more likely targeting bigger mobs anyway
so it will be easier to track dots on them
tropic echo
as a vulpera would you bag of tricks during vendetta?
stoic needle
still doesn't make those 1cp foks feel any better 
hollow escarp
I only use vulpera for my bank toons on horde realms
tropic echo
😦
hollow escarp
not sure what bag of tricks does
tropic echo
it's the 4th highest simming horde race for sin
and i like foxes
balmy condor
Yeah you would cast with cds
hollow escarp
ohh nice
stoic needle
a comment on wowhead says that the bag doesn't benefit from shiv or vendetta
tropic echo
basically a free trinket lol
stoic needle
might wanna check
radiant fossil
wait what ? am i race swapping to vulpera ? 
tropic echo
im not sure if it would cause vendetta says "your abilities" but it's a racial ability so idk
stoic needle
only way to find out is to check it
subtle tundra
its a gcd ^^
balmy condor
wait what ? am i race swapping to vulpera ? <:vulpera:669210121284354068>
If you have to ask, no
radiant fossil
here I am reassured
stoic needle
mechagnomes 
stoic needle
radiant fossil
tropic echo
hollow escarp
tbf, vulpera outlaw sounds interesting
hollow escarp
reminds me of puss in boots from shrek
radiant fossil
sure 😉
tropic echo
fuck it maybe I am a furry
nocturne hawk
Don't they have a secondary hearth as well?
tropic echo
master race
they have an "anywhere I want" hearth I think, just has to be used outdoors
hollow escarp
the vulpera hearthstone can be used for changing talents or gear for last boss in DoS
while your team is running to the boss
tropic echo
broken
hollow escarp
I swear I'm finding the most useless way to minmax
tropic echo
idk where I'd ever put the camp for general practical use
but you literally can just put it anywhere you want as long as it's outside and return there on a 1hr cd
queen galleon
Perma checking wowhead right now wishing a SLG nerf so my guild do not disband like every mid tier guild
tropic echo
also there's different "tricks" you can get for the bag racial from old raid bosses
ragnaros and cho'gall are the two different damage ones, i forget what the other healing one is
radiant fossil
I find Dena more challenging than slg tbh. Atleast with my guild
hollow escarp
recruiting is more challenging than all 4 last bosses imo
tropic echo
also vulpera have a pretty nice passive for m+ unironically lol
hollow escarp
we will be 2 rogues on council prog tomorrow 
tropic echo
the first time you take damage from something it's reduced by 5% of your max hp
hollow escarp
also vulpera have a pretty nice passive for m+ unironically lol
it's good for tanks as well
queen galleon
@hollow escarp Outlaw perf decent on Council
nocturne hawk
Even if no dps -- every man best racial imo
hollow escarp
that racial saved me some cloaks on Xymox
tropic echo
oh it's best for tanks i imagine
radiant fossil
TJ stop speaking about Vulpera. I hate that race and you start to make me love it 😡
tropic echo
lmfao
queen galleon
Just send slave dk to clear trap 
hollow escarp
we don't have any
nocturne hawk
Yeah I do the same if its just 1 bad trap
radiant fossil
Atleast as a rogue you arent a seed carrier like me and my hunt
hollow escarp
I don't mind seed carrying, I did some emergency ones
queen galleon
Rogue is most of the times backup for seed yeah
hollow escarp
monk is main melee seed
vital haven
outlaw rogue is actually really good for like a melee seed
hollow escarp
yes
radiant fossil
Wait you guys have melee seed carrier ?
nocturne hawk
i've never touched a seed, can you pop soulshape and whatnot?
vital haven
yes
queen galleon
@radiant fossil we had a dh for melee one
nocturne hawk
Oh ez, all NF on seed duty then lol
hollow escarp
but we have 3 mages, 3 hunters, it's easy to assign seeds
radiant fossil
Well, we have only range seed carrier ...
vital haven
outlaw rogues even on the hardest seeds just basically grappling hook towards the portal and thats pretty much it
arctic night
Do trinkets work with Master Assasain talent?
vital haven
no
nocturne hawk
First kill on xymox I was Law... cleared a huge string of traps with cloak hook... was 
queen galleon
Speaking about comp, we finally gonna get our first progress war 
hollow escarp
ohh yeah
queen galleon
Finally 5% buff
radiant fossil
You guys switched to sin for the rest of the progress ? or you still play outlaw ?
hollow escarp
First kill on xymox I was Law... cleared a huge string of traps with cloak hook....
my most memorable moment with hook is using it on 2nd boss in MISTS to get to clone but I went through the fox and stunned 2 other players
queen galleon
You guys switched to sin for the rest of the progress ? or you still play outlaw...
Progressing on last 3 Boss i'm going sin for Sludge , outlaw for SLG, sin for dena
nocturne hawk
lmao, yeah hook is good times, step is ok but way less fun
hollow escarp
step is fun on sub
radiant fossil
@queen galleon sounds good for sludge and Dena p3
nocturne hawk
step in arena baiting someone to fall off a platform
queen galleon
I was playing Inerva + skulker on sludge first pull
then got back to vial
bcs i got bored of two on use
nocturne hawk
wait, thought dub use trinkets causes 20 sec cd, or just alternate on pillars?
hollow escarp
been using skulkers + vessel for quite a while
queen galleon
Alternate on pillars
nocturne hawk
ah ok
queen galleon
You preuse inerva
like 20 sec before
so you have skulker on first inerva second skulker three etc
hollow escarp
stacking inerva with people in raid sounds fun
queen galleon
Yeah, when people loot it and equip it 
hollow escarp
we have 3 in raid so far
queen galleon
Hope they know about prepull using it
hollow escarp
no idea, I'm not using it
nocturne hawk
I've just been running vessel/chain for fist, chain just seems to keep up pretty well. I'll try skulkers tuesday
queen galleon
I mean
that's not big of a difference
don't worry
I went back to vial for myself
tropic echo
Is it weird to deliberately hold envenom until full energy? I assume abilities apply poisons as well
To be able to throw the highest amount attacks while buffed from envenom
hollow escarp
you mean shiv?
radiant fossil
i think we are supposed to do that to max dps
velvet nacelle
you'd really only hold envenom for uptime on the debuff
tropic echo
I mean envenom
dense bramble
you should envenom with at least 80 energy, i believe
tropic echo
Idk what shiv does with conduits later I’m still leveling lol
dense bramble
no need to pool more then that
shiv increases your nature damage on your target by a few % and a few more with conduit
tropic echo
So shiv then envenom then continue as usual
also I will once again implore anyone not to level in assassination until 37 lol
hollow escarp
it's not a pleasant experience for sure
peak sandal
P sure you level as outlaw until you get mfd and/or shadow dance then you finish as sub
hollow escarp
even speed runners used to level as outlaw
velvet nacelle
levleling as outlaw or sub feels way better, yeah
tropic echo
My haste is actually okay, the issue is no energy from bleeds until lvl 37
nocturne hawk
55 cost mut?!
tropic echo
you can't sustain aoe
nocturne hawk
velvet nacelle
soothing shadows is nice for uptime
tropic echo
my mut only costs 50 at 37 idk if rank 2 mutilate is a thing or when you get it
nocturne hawk
Actual same. I didn't even know sprint gave water walk as sub till a few nights ago
tropic echo
dont say glyph man
you're making me miss when heroic throw used to interrupt & silence lol
velvet nacelle
it was a artifact trait in legion for the sub weapons
also, immunity to fall damage
cunning needle
Actual same. I didn't even know sprint gave water walk as sub till a few nights ...
wait what it's only a sub thing?
peak sandal
Artifact trait for sub to make them take no fall damage too
velvet nacelle
which was amazing
cunning needle
oh man the immune to fall damage was so much fun
just randomly drop down from things
hollow escarp
it was only for sub though
nocturne hawk
ah, I missed legion, started back up in 8.1 from Wotlk
tropic echo
i miss glyphs
gave inscription something to do 😦
tropic echo
i guess but aren't missives super cheap
willow rover
guys how would you sim a m+ item you want to upgrade to 220?
hollow escarp
supply and demand
tropic echo
depends on realm ig
velvet nacelle
ok i've been sleeping on crimson tempest
i admit it, i knew it was "good for aoe" but i didn't really think it was THAT good for aoe
hollow escarp
guys how would you sim a m+ item you want to upgrade to 220?
you can create an item in gear compare
on raidbots
balmy condor
guys how would you sim a m+ item you want to upgrade to 220?
Run a droptimizer with 220 gear
nocturne hawk
Tool tip doesn't do CT justice
velvet nacelle
@nocturne hawk it really doesn't
waxen cloak
!guide
prisma monolithBOT
velvet nacelle
now i gotta add a weak aura for CT to track the timer. LIFE IS SO HARD
tropic echo
well hopefully leveling in sin feels 100000x better with venomous wounds
balmy condor
It won’t lmao
tropic echo
it should
i actually have a reason to rupture/garrote in aoe
balmy condor
Sin leveling is depressingly bad
velvet nacelle
i mean you'll feel venomous but it's not gonna be significant
balmy condor
It got buffed by 1
cunning needle
people level as sin?
balmy condor
You won’t notice it
hollow escarp
people level as sin?
people usually buy level 50 boosts nowadays 
balmy condor
tropic echo
not having it sucks ass there's almost never a reason for me to press rupture unless im fighting a boss
balmy condor
Are you actually leveling sin
fleet anchor
I would level as Sub 110% of the time
tropic echo
yes
balmy condor
Before you have venomous wounds
hollow escarp
if you have heirlooms, swap to outlaw now
nocturne hawk
Leveling as law sucked too before combat potency lol
tropic echo
i dont have outlaw looms lol
fleet anchor
Sub has teleporting Shadowstrike, that's all you need to know 😄
cunning needle
I don't get people level in anything other than sub
balmy condor
Well only 1 non-dagger
cunning needle
teleporting shadow strike and sustain with regen in stealth
fleet anchor
Soothing Darkness is kinda op yeah
hollow escarp
tbf, leveling sin will make you appreciate it at max level
so you won't be the guy that complains it's too slow anymore
cunning needle
I did level my first rogue as sin when I started in cata
nocturne hawk
suffered enough!
cunning needle
and I refused to use envenom because i thought it'd get rid of my poison buff
cunning needle
and i'd have to reapply my poisons on my weap
tropic echo
combat 😅
i played combat rogue a bit in mop and that was the height of my rogue experience
tropic echo
everything about combat felt nice
massive burst, massive aoe, massive aoe burst
iirc combat potency was something you could control and wasn't rng based like roll the bones supposedly is
or was
idk i haven't played outlaw lol
cunning needle
yep it stacked every time you casted sinister strike
so you could control when you'd go into red
tropic echo
all i remember was "get red CP and evis and 1shot an add"
fun times
lemme rephrase that
get red CP, revealing strike, evis, 1 shot whatever you touch
unborn eagle
sin leveling was a cake walk
fading mortar
can anyone look over this and help me with what i can improve on? most of my other fights ive been improving but,,
tropic echo
revealing sin sin evis boom
fading mortar
fleet anchor
I mean Sub has been the easiest leveling spec ever since the teleport was put in since with Heirlooms or good weapons there have been multiple xpacs where you literally just one-shot everything and restealth lol
But leveling is always pretty easy
tropic echo
i kinda wish there was a talent that made shadowstep refresh on kill
fleet anchor
That'd be nice
tropic echo
DKs have grip refresh
fleet anchor
Sounds like a glyph to me
tropic echo
and warriors have double charge
fleet anchor
👌
signal gulch
survival has harpoon reset
cunning needle
i kinda wish there was a talent that made shadowstep refresh on kill
that'd be fun and thats not allowed
tropic echo
lol
cunning needle
best we get is a 2nd charge as sub
tropic echo
that would give rogues insane mobility in BGs though so idk if that would be okay
cunning needle
would it?
balmy condor
Rogues don’t get nice things
nocturne hawk
I'm about to lvl another rogue just to farm BF pants faster... rag hates me for the last 12 weeks
signal gulch
rogue only gets spaghetti code
peak sandal
Rogue had 1 nice thing and it was disgusting in arena
And that's why we don't have it anymore
I miss burst of speed
hollow escarp
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/XKFp1Wwc6Dvnr48b#fight=5&type=damage-done&s...
I would start with improving uptime on bleeds. 81% rupture and 77% garrote is pretty low. Also use Mutilate instead of Ambush. Only use Ambush if procs from Blindside.
hexed root
haste crit for doomblade leggo ya?
fickle hamlet
Haste crit gang
valid plaza
On fights like Council, do we FoK for CP / keep bleeds on others for energy and just dump envenoms etc into prio target? Or... is there something else to do there?
strange python
think sin is worth it on SLG for prio damage?
lilac haven
just garrote on the other targets for council
nocturne hawk
^ just garrote no rupts
lavish brook
Is gloomblade leggo a low drop rate?
radiant fossil
@strange python i dont think so. Sin isnt a great funnel spec. I mean you will do damage to goliath and boss but other class do the same and cleave better. Unless you did giga damage, outlaw will win this fight
strange python
Is gloomblade leggo a low drop rate?
No
I think it’s 100%??
yeah was looking at logs and lookds like outlaw is the play there
hollow escarp
don't remember where it drops from
strange python
It’s from torghast
strange python
Must be 100 at layer 8
Just go on group finder dude and find a layer 8 group
Or make one and blast
lavish brook
yeah but I can just stealth to the last boss on 3
strange python
I did it with 4 rogues and a resto Druid we stealthed the whole way through
lavish brook
i thought it was 100%
radiant fossil
@strange python Logs are cool to follow but if you want to play sin on slg you can. But only if you do good and do the job. If you can nuke goliath on demand, you have a spot.
midnight marsh
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's:
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
strange python
well im NF and feel like to get the most burst from sin i would want to be venthyr
could be mistaken though
radiant fossil
If your guild doesnt struggle with aoe and cleave for skirmishers, you can play sin and do the single target job.
strange python
only had one night of progress and we lost out WW monk so not sure how its gonna go tuesday haha
radiant fossil
Oof
strange python
so ill prob be in for the monk
wise fiber
ToP. MA or Doom ?
silent tinsel
To many plaguefalls
strange python
To many plaguefalls
Do some mists for the dagger to break it up
I finally got keystone tonight feel good. Really tough slog today trying to get spires 15
stoic needle
grats!
charred mango
is it worth trying to throw a bleed on shades in p1 of sire?
or just FoK and focus boss
stoic needle
do your best sub impression and fok>envenom
nocturne hawk
my raid always has to stop dmg till last soak for the run
queen galleon
Are we speaking mythic or heroic here
tropic echo
sin is extremely good at funneling right?
queen galleon
Anyway even in Mythic it's kinda hard to throw bleed on shade so just Fok -> enve
fading mortar
@hexed root i made the doomblade leggo for pvp before patch
ive only been playing sin since the beginning, got daggers and ahvent gottenw eapons for anything else
fading mortar
i got it my first run
lavish brook
i am never playing assa lol
charred mango
it should be 100%, you might already have it
shadow agate
After opener we just use Flag on CD or do wait for it to line up with vendetta reset? on cd right?
lavish brook
naw i dont
shell ivy
I personally line up with all but dunno if it’s correct
shadow agate
sure, I'm just saying outside the opener, I've been holding it till vendetta resets again, but wasn't sure if I was wasting a use on fights doing that
shadow agate
1.5 min
fading mortar
yea, wait the other 30s
for vendettra on 2nd'
having it with vendetta will give u most CP
shadow agate
yeah that's felt right, but figured I'd check
drifting cloud
shy dust
tribal marlin
sure, I'm just saying outside the opener, I've been holding it till vendetta res...
depends on fight lengt.
_Everything below 4:30 you can delay Flagellation to sync with vendetta
_For fight between 4:30 and 6:00 you basically use Flag on cooldown and delay last vendetta to sync with last Flag at 4:30
_For fight >6:00 you gotta use everything on cooldown and they sync naturally at 6:00 marker
fading mortar
so, very few instances where u dont just hold vendetta
tribal marlin
yeah, but it also depends on the fight itself
stoic needle
nvm miki got it lol
tribal marlin
Like sometimes even if a fight is a 8mn fight, you can rather see it as 2 consecutive fights of like 5mn and then 3mn
So you might want to sync the cooldowns even if it means you might loose a cast at some point, just because you want to push phases
This happen a lot in real world situation
One example could be Azshara, even if you might end up loosing a cast syncing, you still would want to sync so that you have both CD avaiable starting phase 3, and then again starting phase 4 etc...
violet wasp
In short, can it always be better to lose a cast and ensure maximum stacks with vendetta?
tribal marlin
Progression wise : Yes
Pure dps wise : Probably better to never sync
hexed root
do we go familiar perdiciments because the potency conduit out performs exacting preperation?
tribal marlin
Also I would heavily recommend you to check out logs and video of a given fight before starting a progression and adjust your cooldown regarding.
Try to get any PoV, look if you can fit your cooldown in a given order, if it appears there is a mechanics happening or that you want to push DPS later, then adjust. It's the very best way of dealing with a new encounter, it can save you a big chunk of pulls if everyone do this in your raid.
dawn shard
Is it normal to lack energy when doing new opener with Venthyr, DS Sin build? Find that after mut>snd>mut i have to wait before the next steps
tribal marlin
Gotta use Thistle Tea in the opener
edit : it's a joke !!!
dawn shard
lol i wish
tribal marlin
it's normal and fine doing so
dawn shard
Okay cool thought maybe i didnt have the haste for it
tribal marlin
You can swap SnD and Rupture if you wish too, that should not have any impact on the overall dps and might feels a bit better, but you'll still starve a bit before 4th global
strange python
Was one thing I was curious about aswell....see alot of top parsing sin rogues using ds over vigor
fading mortar
alot of times i do the rupture before dns
snd
i guess it would help to look at high parse sin rogue logs
havent done that at all.
with just now getting to doing sire more, this is where im noticing my drop in dps
strange python
Most of them are pretty even on certain talent choices
tribal marlin
Parses are tainted by encounter rng unfortunately
fading mortar
+12-14 keys averaging like 4.5k dps
tribal marlin
you could possibly see someone doing wrong but parsing high because he got blessed by rng
fading mortar
stone legion and sire im dropping off
tribal marlin
Opener usually are very marginally impactful on your overall performance, if it has any impact at all
fading mortar
my boss damage in keys, not the overall including CT and all that
strange python
I'm guessing cuz the dmg amp from doomblade makes ds the better play? Just without flag buff I feel like u will be hella starved...but I havent tested ds in raid yet
fading mortar
im gonna try DS now, i havent been using it at all
energy is hard enough as it is atm
strange python
Oh I didnt see the updated pin about ds...but yeah I did heroic tonight but ran with vigor almost the entire time. Guess I'll try ds out next time
stoic needle
this week's torghast power is fun
ebon bramble
what is this week's torghast power?
gray fjord
Demon Hunter Simulator
Screen goes black either on a cooldown or after every 5 kills, depending on which one you pick.
Gives tons of damage boosts and stuff but literally can't see unless you're a haxxor like me.
gray fjord
There's a toy that makes your screen all funny
And it removes the darkness
Think it's called like scroll of storytelling? I forget. Some of other things might do it too but yeah if you use that it removes the darkness all the time as long as you refresh the toy.
nocturne hawk
Oh the one that makes your screen try to look like its a story on parchment
gray fjord
^
Yeppo, it removes the darkness visual, but you keep the bonuses.
Super cheese that'll no doubt be fixed eventually. lol
nocturne hawk
lol smart though
velvet nacelle
as a guy who has played outlaw almost exclusively in M+ since legion
dense quest
how big is the difference between necro and vent sin ? should i change my covenant ? : S im necro btw, venthyr ability looks nice
velvet nacelle
assassination is hella fun
venthyr is nice because it's fire and forget basically
use it inside of vendetta and when you're about to spam finishers and that's about as much thought as you have to put into it
i dropped about 500-1k overall dps in m+ but i do so much more single target right now
tribal marlin
how big is the difference between necro and vent sin ? should i change my covena...
somewhere between 2.5% and 3.5%. Necro has a much better damage pattern tho, you can use to build from 30y and the dots keep ticking in long (and short as well ofc) downtime period while venthyr can end up loosing a lot of value in heavy movement encounters. And Necro has a better cleave composant as well.
velvet nacelle
and i'm sure i'll get some of that dps back once i get more used to the trash rotation
i keep letting snd drop because i'm focused on CT and spreading ruptures
tribal marlin
For now I'd say that Venthyr is the go, but it's possible depending on the shape that will take the next raid, that Necro might be better.
dense quest
somewhere between 2.5% and 3.5%. Necro has a much better damage pattern tho, you...
i see.. yeah ure right. i think necro is better for M+ for example
tribal marlin
Necro is particullary good in a scenario like "Spread target cleave" because it allow you to funnel more ST damage from spread targets SBS'd, where you can't really get any benefit aside from maybe 1 or 2 additionnal dot with other covenant
If a fight like is a thing is the next raid, and if it's an important encounter then it's possible that Necro could be the play.
stoic needle
i'm going to laugh very hard if sin funnel becomes a thing
tribal marlin
I mean it's not really giga funneling
but it's still additionnal ST damage + cleave
where in such situation other covenant are basically ST
dense quest
yeah was watching that on w.logs, all the sins are venthyr for that ST damage i think
^^ ty for all of your advices btw
stoic needle
The encounter design of the next raid will be interesting for sure
tribal marlin
yeah, but about spread tarrget cleave ... hum it's also worth to mention that in such fight you might see some boomkins and warlock insteed of rogues 😄
stoic needle
Regardless it seems like a fun concept, funneling more damage into a target with big CP but cheap energy sbs
ebon bramble
we really wont know anything
its next tier...
blizzard could just be like "fuck ass rogues in the ass" and nerf us to zero dps
subtle tundra
ok i think the reason i dislike DS so much is cause i have 13% haste
shadow helm
yer doom be at hand
stoic needle
blizzard could just be like "fuck ass rogues in the ass" and nerf us to zero dps
Don't even speak this into existence 
ebon bramble
its happening
stoic needle
Stop
stoic needle
Delete this now
stoic needle
I won't be switching I'll tell you that much
nocturne hawk
stoic needle
Venthyr forever
regal chasm
I mean, clearly the design intent is to have players rotate between covenants every 6 months. Lol
stoic needle
I was og venthyr, I just was waiting for it to not be complete dogshit
grim shuttle
Necrolord since day one. Sometimes you have to embrace being a roleplayer
shadow tangle
I made my rogue necro and I feel like I’m too stupid for this
Trying to SBS shit is taxing my smooth brain
ebon bramble
have to say tho, venthyr building flag stacks is pretty fun
nocturne hawk
I'd just like to see ranged get fukt next raid and we can just sit there and kill a target dummy
stoic needle
The soulbinds are still a clown fiesta but I can deal with it because flag is fucking badass
shadow tangle
I might switch to venthyr just for ease of use
ebon bramble
i runo, venthyr to me is like my fav, but necro tells me...it is better D:
its ok, they will give venthyr shit soulbinds in next tier
and we all go kyrian
shadow tangle
I only do mythic plus, I should play outlaw but I just have a hard time enjoying it
stoic needle
My logic is that if people want real aoe they'll just bring hunters and boomkins so I'm not going to optimize for aoe
ebon bramble
see...i m+ a lot...so necro is better right?
shadow tangle
I came back to retail wow because prepatch sub was awesome and I really enjoyed it. Hit 60 and sub became a bottom spec and I couldn’t keep up with my friends
ebon bramble
bursting pride and bosses down is fun tho
subtle tundra
I came back to retail wow because prepatch sub was awesome and I really enjoyed ...
that's how it is
stoic needle
I'm curious what next seasons affix will be
ebon bramble
maybe its anti aoe affix
so no more aoeing everything down
OR
its jailer themed
stoic needle
Druids in shambles