But blindside sims higher
#assassination
analog glade
stoic needle
I'm still not quite understanding, if it was a magic effect wouldn't cloak make you completely immune and the damage of massacre wouldn't matter?
fleet anchor
I mean you guys are acting as if there is any consistency with Rogue mechanics or bugs
analog glade
With cloak u dont take damage direct of massacre but u get a dot
fathom swift
no its just surely there would be some reason it would work in p2 and not in p3
fleet anchor
And when I was running Cheat I couldn't
fathom swift
does massacre damage increase?
nocturne hawk
hmm yeah sounds like cheat bugs out cause it wants to take prio if that's the case
fleet anchor
The spell ID is the same in all phases so it's not really specific to how the spell is flagged up to bypass immunities
analog glade
@balmy condor So elaborate planning is better as a single target?
Cause of no rng ?
nocturne hawk
more energy regen multi target
stoic needle
No it's better on multiple targets
nocturne hawk
more finishers
fleet anchor
It could just be due to slight differences in how the Carnage debuff is applied
Who knows
stoic needle
Weirdness for sure
fleet anchor
Whole thing is wonky but I'm pretty sure it's just a bug
Rather than intentional
But at least my current working theory is just that the damage cap on Cheat is somehow taking over the process before it can realize the damage should be immuned lol
But just a guess at this point, not enough logs to say for sure and it's kinda hard to intentionally test
Especially considering like 99% of Rogue logs on that fight run Cheat
ebon bramble
for those that have played in almost every expansion, where do rogues, specifically assassination, often fallen in terms of performance? have we always been mediocre?
fleet anchor
I mean probably the last time Rogues were elite damage wise was back in WoD? Other than a few moments here and there. Ranged have pretty much dominated the top top end meta since Legion going forward. Rogues in general usually have one spec towards the top end of melee.
lavish pulsar
howdy assassins. my guild will probably kill mythic sludgefist next weekend. I only switched to assassination this week and only had the soul ash for a 210 Doomblade Glove. I know Zoldyck is supposed to be solid on Sire for the execute, is there any preference on leggo for SLG?
fleet anchor
howdy assassins. my guild will probably kill mythic sludgefist next weekend. I o...
Zoldyck would probably be better on SLG compared to Doomblade
ebon bramble
I mean probably the last time Rogues were *elite* damage wise was back in WoD? O...
damn that...sort of sucks, i mean for melee.
lavish pulsar
Kk, so I'm probably better off building Zoldyck's now instead of just buffing up my DB, neato
fleet anchor
damn that...sort of sucks, i mean for melee.
Yes, yes it does. 😄
Mages/Warlocks/SPriest/Hunter have really generally been in good spots more often than not. Raid design right now is very preferential for ranged in general. Blizzard has struggled trying to keep the raid meta from being ranged-dominated for some time.
lavish pulsar
yeah we only run 4-6 melee, and heavily lean on the 4-side
fleet anchor
Or I guess struggled implies some effort to change it, but I am not sure they care
It has gone for so long I think they are unfortunately ok with it
lavish pulsar
they probably do to a degree? there's more ranged classes than melee
fleet anchor
The funny thing is that used to really not be the case
Melee players used to be the majority by quite a bit, other than Hunters always being very popular
But you can only keep the meta biased for so long before players adapt
stark heart
fwiw though when I wasn't running Cheat Death I was able to cloak it in P3 befor...
When I was looking into Seli's p3 logs only immune part of cloak worked in p3
stuck merlin
why is opening with muti better? doesnt ambush do more dmg? specced into MA
stark heart
That might have changed but doubt
analog glade
First assa got 5 infu + 3 faerie on Xy'mox 
serene basin
why is opening with muti better? doesnt ambush do more dmg? specced into MA
Mult gives 4cp ambush gives 3
fleet anchor
I have played long enough to watch Balance druids go from being the Survival Hunters of older xpacs and memed to death to nowadays having more players than the bottom 9 specs combined 🤣
fleet anchor
When I was looking into Seli's p3 logs only immune part of cloak worked in p3
Yeah but again, was he running Cheat or no? Because Almost everyone runs Cheat all the time on that boss. I was running Elusiveness for a week or so and actually was able to immune it in P3 just fine (as shown above) which is why I think it's probably a Cheat bug.
sharp mica
Yeah I still can’t get over how boomkins actually do damage... I mean look at them
serene basin
Mult gives 4cp ambush gives 3
Yet, thats a personal choice also
Since you are casting snd right after
fleet anchor
Blizzard really underestimates how sensitive even the semi-casual raiding player groups are to performance
stark heart
Yeah but again, was he running Cheat or no? Because Almost everyone runs Cheat a...
Dunno, but I looked into one night of logs, one instance he immuned damage, other cloak was present but it was resist and so massacre pierced it
fleet anchor
Havoc went from being the most played Heroic spec not that long ago to losing almost 2/3rds of their player representation in raw percentage numbers
Basically overnight
Due to tuning issues
Blizzard kinda likes to pretend only the top 1% of players care about balance but it's just not true
stark heart
My understanding was that resist makes projectiles miss and blade can't really miss you while slicing in line but cloak seems to work fully in p2
No idea how that's coded but yeah
:D
dawn haven
If I'm at 20% haste, but I replace my 207 Denathrius signet with a 226 Ardent Sunstar signet....Would it be better to go for the Sunstar or the Denny ring?
I'll drop to 15% haste but go up to 20% vers.
devout ingot
Sim it
fleet anchor
I mean like I said the spell ID is the same in P2 and P3 and I've immuned it in P3 without Cheat, so I dunno. I'm just fairly sure it's a Cheat bug of some sort. Maybe some time I will try cloaking it when my cheat debuff is already proc'd 😛
stark heart
Well in your log was it immune or resist part of cloak?
fleet anchor
stark heart
ID is the same but I think actor changes
Yeah that doesn't really help
Can you add buff application time there?
vital haven
stark heart
<@!116203458129821697> https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/ptB7WjKQNCHfmD1Z#typ...
Yeah but that's not immune cloak when you died :D
vital haven
wait wdym i did use cloak a second before i got hit
stark heart
Cloak gives you immunity for first second and resist for following 4. You used cloak 1.09 before getting hit, so you took it into resist part
Sometimes that difference matters
stoic needle
fleet anchor
It is possible it's that but I dunno, would need to test more probably
vital haven
wait.....wut
fleet anchor
I still think it's Cheat Death being fucky because it's been fucky all xpac and basically garbage but yeah 😛
tacit pilot
so with venth conv now is the opener still the same as the pin?
stark heart
Checking logs on phone is aids
fleet anchor
Yes it is
stark heart
I have to get up now
fleet anchor
WCL "reactive" layout on phones is awful
stark heart
cunning surge
Yeah I try to use WCL purely on my comp
Like even "Desktop Mode" keeps it in that poopoo format
fleet anchor
But yes there are two parts of cloak, the part that removes things and the part that causes you to resist new things. And they are slightly different.
Technically the 5s buff is the -200% spell hit chance 😛
vital haven
huh TIL
fleet anchor
That's why sometimes you can pre-immune things with cloak that cloak won't normally remove
Like say the debuff on Fetid
You could immune before it went out and you wouldn't get it, but if you already got the debuff you couldn't remove it since it wasn't Magic
vital haven
god damn dude ive been playing rogue on and off for like 10+ years and thats the first time ive heard about that LMAO
fleet anchor
Occasionally things can do the opposite
stark heart
@fleet anchor did you immune on your night?
fleet anchor
I have to dig up the logs again
Give me a sec
Have to find what pull that was on
Was definitely close enough it could have been yeah
fleet anchor
Unfortunately for the purposes of this, I haven't gotten hit by many Massacres 😛
So I don't have much data lol
cunning surge
Just don't get hit 
fleet anchor
And there are literally no logs in 9.0.5 without Cheat Death 👌
Funny enough this is the only fight the entire tier I ended up running Cheat for
stark heart
most notable example of that cloak duality that I recall is manno in HFC, If one took debuff into immune portion no debuff would be applied and no add would spawn, resist would only prevent damage but not debuff application 😄
cunning surge
I just keep CD on as default
fleet anchor
It also has issues with damage events in the same server tick
Just straight killing you anyway
😛
cunning surge
I mean to be fair, Elusiveness IS probably better on a lot of fights, like Sludge comes to mind
vital haven
cant tell you how many times ive tried to cheat death the maut one shot mechanic
cunning surge
I haven't been getting unlucky like that, damn
fleet anchor
Used to be a no-brainer pick but atm it feels like it's more just for specific cases
Like it's good on Sire to save potential brez's due to being silly with one-shots in P2 or whatever
Otherwise Elusiveness is just good because it's a nice personal CD and helps a ton on a bunch of fights
Especially with the reduced cost conduit
cunning surge
Yeah I feel like if you run Elusive you HAVE to run Nimble Fingers
fleet anchor
Nimble just seems like a good pick to me, because imo you will use Feint and Vial on fights all the time no matter what, so it's one of the few of that type that's actually a DPS increase 😛
covert mesa
Nimble Fingers is must have;)
cunning surge
Oh yeah I take it alongside Recup regardless on my Niya tree
fleet anchor
most notable example of that cloak duality that I recall is manno in HFC, If one...
If it wasn't needed for DPSing these days, I'd also be curious to see what the brief Vanish period could cheese nowadays too. But it's just too important for damage right now sadly. For all but Sub I guess.
plain pivot
While I get that outlaw is better for m+, with the recent buffs to assasination - what are you peoples experience with it? Sims is one thing, real world a other, thus if anyone rolled from outlaw to assassin had some personal experience that would be great. Got 2x 220 daggers and a 220 fist, got the luxury to chose. Seems that in m+ average dps through a whole dungeon us high 4k-5k mark as outlaw for me.
fleet anchor
I use Leeching for solo
cunning surge
I've been running Sin for like, years
This patch feels AMAZING
I topped meters for like 2 or 3 fights in my raid group
Like it feels so much more nicer and streamlined
stark heart
Right now we reach 7k dps, so 700hps, with 42k hp that's almost 2%hp/second
Imo that's pretty good
fleet anchor
Honestly the more I use Elusiveness though
The harder I find going back without it
It is really quite strong
fleet anchor
The problem is once you have Nimble+Elusiveness then you Feint all the time and realize you are really way more tanky
Then you talent out of it
cunning surge
Feint is useful in general, it's saved my ass before the 3rd and 4th pillar hit on Sludge several times
fleet anchor
And then Feint all the time
And realize you are just wasting Energy
Because the AoE part works on fuck all
😄
fleet anchor
(Other than SLG, where it works like on everything)
stark heart
Depends if you hit wall or not
cunning surge
I mean there isn't too many fights where I feel like you HAVE to feint, maybe during Shriek Wave of bloods and Frieda's shit
But idk
stark heart
I feinted dances for sure
fleet anchor
I mean it's really hard to turn down an unconditional 30% personal CD on only a 15s cooldown once you get used to it 😛
stark heart
But they are staggered so it doesn't cover all jumps typically
cunning surge
I still miss when it didn't have a CD 
cunning surge
Oh for sure like, you didn't need to SPAM it, but it not having a CD means you wouldn't like, panic pop it and not have it available for next thing or whatever
Even then, using THAT many GCDs is gonna cost you DPS in the long run
fleet anchor
I mean 25 energy is not a lot
stark heart
If you use it often it builds up
5 min fight is 8k energy for Assa iirc, 3 feints and you burned 1% of your resource pool
Is it incorrect to say "burned" instead of "burnt" btw?
fleet anchor
Yeah well if you die you lose 100% of your resource pool
stark heart
Just noticed
fleet anchor
😛
plain pivot
I topped meters for like 2 or 3 fights in my raid group
Thanks! Could not find a post of your equipment, but have you tried some m+? If so, when looking damage total in a dungeon, what you end up on? Sorry for targeting you, I just want to make sure I don't blindly trust sims that is not equivalent of real world scenarios 😄
cunning surge
I say that to everyone regarding DPS
"If you die your DPS is gonna be 0"
fleet anchor
I don't really think it's just the pillars that are dangerous on Sludge though
stark heart
Yes but if I am at 100% hp soaking meteor on slg with fully alive raid I dunno why I'd feint
fleet anchor
Roars are almost just as much damage
cunning surge
Oh of course I understand
fleet anchor
They are around 20k damage
vital haven
ye those are the big 2
stark heart
I mean I played Sub on sludge
fleet anchor
~40% of your damage taken will be the 9 roars + 4 impacts
stark heart
I had so much self healing roar wasn't an issue
cunning surge
Thanks! Could not find a post of your equipment, but have you tried some m+? If ...
It's around 4-4.5k or so?? I mean Outlaw is better overall for M+ but Sin is more than capable of taking on M+
I do prefer Sin on Tyrannical weeks tho, I will say that much
stark heart
Soothing with such frequent dances is just absurd
cunning surge
Also when you say equipment, you mean Gear, right?
fleet anchor
But anyway what I meant by "unconditional" was as in
Elusiveness works on all damage in the game
Unlike all the other limited scope of our other defensives
plain pivot
Thanks! And yes, just to get an general feel =) Guess sin could shine in raids while I stay outlaw on m+s
fleet anchor
Without Elusiveness there are just a lot of mechanics we just have to eat to the face
Which sucks tbh
stark heart
Sure, I see value in it but I don't default into it and just spam feint to be tanky boy
cunning surge
Thanks! And yes, just to get an general feel =) Guess sin could shine in raids w...
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/character/us/kiljaeden/blazereap Here this has my gear and general logs to get an idea of Sin
stark heart
I thought about elu on slg because my healers like to dispell when I run away with blade
Get impact damage and giga dot on top
arctic walrus
Imagine not picking the benched talent for slg
stark heart
As much as fight sucks balls I wanna progress every boss in the instance
cunning surge
I've never heard the phrase "Benched Talent" 
I love that
fleet anchor
Elusiveness is so strong on SLG tbh
On top of Feint being really strong already there
It's one of the few cases where I can honestly say I doubt there are too many other specs/classes that can ignore all the mechanics on SLG quite like Rogues can lol
cunning surge
Is it M SLG where it's strong or is there something that I might be missing? Cause I've only done Heroic
fleet anchor
Hunters are like a near death experience every time they get Wicked Blades and I'm like "lol that tickles a little bit"
Mythic yes
Feint already is just good on that fight because most everything is AoE flagged
Which does significant damage
to discover that evasion doesn't work on deny clones
fleet anchor
You mitigate the first hits of Wicked Blast by the AoE amount then a few ticks of the DoT by the Elusiveness amount
cunning surge
Yeah I have noticed that about a lot of abilites in CN
fleet anchor
Like most classes will like somewhere around 35k damage from the Wicked Blast + 2 ticks over like 2s
And Rogues with Feint up will take around 12k lol
cunning surge
Jeez
Mythic raid damage fucks
nocturne hawk
@fleet anchor Just got home from work, you figure out cheat/massacre yet 
fleet anchor
Basically takes a very scary mechanic and makes it trivial
arctic walrus
Swapping to hunter and having to deal with the absolute depravity of defensives is a very scary thing to endure
stark heart
That's more than 50% damage reduction tho 
fleet anchor
Yeah because the Wicked Blast is AoE
arctic walrus
Hey guys I marked the boss I take 4% less damage now from melee 
fleet anchor
When you add in all the normal stuff it ends up like 57% mitigation on the Wicked Blast and 40% on the ticks
stark heart
What do you mean "normal stuff"
cunning surge
Well this conversation has given me a lot more insight towards Elusive
primal zinc
sleep well
uneven plume
I’ll try 
fleet anchor
What do you mean "normal stuff"
shrug mitigation formulas are fun 😛
For some more exact numbers pulling up some examples, although this is with the Hunter's Mark conduit mucking things up in this particular case (changes the base damage)
Either way, the danger level here is pretty significantly different. It's basically walking the line between "oh I died" and "lol is that a mechanic?"
Main gain I think for Elusiveness is for spooky Heart Hemorrhage overlaps. Feint already makes meteors a joke on its own.
dreamy kayak
!bis
spare flame
Does anyone know if I need to be Venthyr for Lashing to drop of Denathrius? Cant swap until tuesday but my heroic is monday
dreamy kayak
you do
fleet anchor
Also the fight has so much stop DPS that really it's just about running around and staying alive, unless you're doing the omega burn strat
Which probably not many guilds are trying for prog
vestal wren
assassination does not rly lose a lot by using feint esp. if you have >1 target
cunning surge
This is true, I probably exaggerated a bit in the sense that DPS would be noticeable but, most likely you should be fine unless you're trying to parse or something
spring root
yo boiz and girlz are we crafting doomblade lego to hands? with crit/haste?
cunning surge
Hands if you're planning on killing M SLG for shoulders, otherwise whichever is easier for you
And it's either H/C or H/V, depending on how you sim
spring root
i have a lot of versa on my gear cos i was playing outlaw so i should go for crit/haste and i already killed slg 😄 so i hope i can get shoulder one day
cunning surge
Yeah if that's the case, H/C Hands sounds like the call
lapis warren
Too bad my hands cost 200k while shoulders 68k on ah for rank 4
I might go the cheaper route
cunning surge
Wouldn't be a bad option I feel, but even a Rank 3 should be fine??
I've been going Rank 3 because I'm broke af
cunning surge
Ye, 225 isn't too far off from 235
lapis warren
just you still have to pay a lot if you do upgrade later
cunning surge
Thaaaaaaat is true
I've just been using 225s for now at least since my server has them very close to the 210 prices for w/e reason
lapis warren
92k is rank 3 so still pricier than the gloves
i mean shoulders
rank 2 is 14 k tho
graceful lodge
hey, i'm swapping my rogue to assassination, is zoldyck better then doomblade?
cunning surge
Oof
And Zoldyck is good for Progression and M+
Doomblade is great for parsing and does more overall damage
Zoldyck is mostly important for Sire
reef axle
so im guessing to put on 2 oils, you take a weapon off so it applies to the other one?
pseudo hamlet
You can't manually use them on the each dagger? (I am using stones)
pseudo hamlet
hey, i'm swapping my rogue to assassination, is zoldyck better then doomblade?
according to sims Doomblade is best for ST, while Zoldyck is better for M+ and for the Sire(because of the execution bonus damage)
cunning surge
Yeah that's how you use Oils
Right click to go on MH
Remove MH
Right click to go on OH
Add back MH
reef axle
nah, oils dont manually apply
cunning surge
No idea why Oil's don't work that way
forest imp
Oils auto apply, just click it twice and it will go onto both weapons. Do it all the time. dont need to take anything off.
cunning surge
^ TIL
That's really good to know
I thought it would like, overwrite the MH one and I didn't want to test
forest imp
Nah if mainhand has an oil already, it will apply to off hand. just have to use 2x oils
strange python
what stats on doomblade ?
molten compass
Hi, with deeper stratagem you use finishers with 4-6 or 5-6cp ?
torn atlas
The way stones are applied shits me to tears when oils are a simple click usage.
I'm pretty sure Max CP minus 1 is generally always the range you want for most mid fight circumstances (tho this can vary for Sin with opening sequence to get energy rolling)
molten compass
@torn atlas thx
pseudo hamlet
what stats on doomblade ?
The one that sims the highest, but the rule of thumb is pretty much haste+vers/crit
scenic kelp
5% dmg increase on finishers i think
jagged bobcat
is the Energy + regen lose value on Flagellation
if u run deeper stratagem
they also all have between 18-20% haste
cunning surge
Apparently Deeper Stratagem out performs Vigor at a certain ilvl, unsure though
willow rover
With the buffs to assassin, how well does it do in high M+ now? In comparison to sub and outlaw of course
dusky vault
With the buffs to assassin, how well does it do in high M+ now? In comparison to...
Better than sub worse than outlaw
cunning surge
Outlaw still outperforms because of heavy cleave/AoE
But Sin can definitely hold it's own now for sure
willow rover
Hmm, but in raid assassin seems to be the way to go for non heavy aoe fights?
cunning surge
Yeah Sin is blowing up now in CN
Especially with the buff to DoomBlade
In response to the Sim Yo Self reaction, I was only relaying info I was told
You should always sim yourself to see what Talents are better
thorny plover
2-2-3-0-0-2-3 - M+ stil best setup with MA/zoldyk?
cunning surge
Yeah that sounds about right
willow rover
But is doomblade the way to go or zoldyck?
cunning surge
Doomblade does more overall damage, but Zold is more used for Prog kills/Sire
thorny plover
MfD can be replaced with deeper strat?
cunning surge
MfD can be replaced with deeper strat?
Possibly, that's worth a sim I feel, but MfD will give you more control over packs, might be a bit poopy on bosses tho compared to Vigor or DS
thorny plover
k, thanks, havent played sin since....legion i guess
cunning surge
Not too much has changed
Still the same "Keep SnD GarRup as much as possible" gameplay
willow rover
with M+, we go crimson tempest over poison bomb?
shadow helm
how to get phial
willow rover
plaguefall
cunning surge
Yeah, Crimson Tempest is better overall since you'll be fighting a lot of packs of enemys, and it's more consistent too
willow rover
ive seen it drop several times
cunning surge
We all on that PF rng life
rocky ruin
i got 207 Phial before 9.05 kinda its ok
shadow helm
thats not 220
rocky ruin
but got no dagger luck at all
shadow helm
rocky ruin
im trying got the achiv before only need 3 dung
sage fern
Question regarding MA in m+:
Why is it good when we start the AoE "rotation" with a triple garrote. Doesnt seem like the crit buff is good in this situation
tender fjord
Garrote is 80% empowered and gives energy via VW
sage fern
so the crit ticks on the dot is that good?
tender fjord
You could FoK CT FoK CT and then you are without energy.
nocturne hawk
You're still getting crits from poisons and autos as well
tender fjord
You don’t want to be without energy after your crit window
Subterfuge is the way to get your 4/5 bleeds rolling quick
molten moon
What is the general opener with MA for aoe? Gar-gar-gar-snd-vanish-gar-gar-gar-fok-ct?
tender fjord
Try to keep snd up from previous pack
nocturne hawk
snd low prio
shadow helm
snd isnt that much prior after recent changes
nocturne hawk
rupts more important than snd
sage fern
so you guys say the aoe opener (gar-gar-gar-fok-ct) is good with the MA legendary? It feels weird to me
tender fjord
On smaller packs the melee speed incr is still valuable imo
reef axle
ok so runnin deeper strat in raid, the ramp is really good, just a sluggish opener between mut and garrote, apart from that performing well, but dont think ill use it in m plus lol
rigid tartan
:)
When do they fix? I have changed cov to venthyr last week, got all soulbinds and put in conduits but energy is not refreshing daily since covenant change and I am at 2 energy left
tender fjord
ok so runnin deeper strat in raid, the ramp is really good, just a sluggish open...
I’m running it in m+ but think it’s partly doable because of necrolord sbs
reef axle
ahh yeh im venth, kinda meh for me tbh lol
thorn turtle
@shadow helm i got a vial in 190, so struggling with leveling it now
lone siren
Yoho !
Is going Assa - Venthyr the move for 9.05 ? I'm fae sub atm and doing Mythic raid. I'll switch to outlaw for mm+ 15-18.
cunning surge
Venthyr is what is being preferred for raiding due to the rework to Flag and the huge buff to Lashing Scars
Night Fae and Necro are still good, like they're all close save for Kyrian, Venthyr pulls ahead though
lone siren
So i can switch calmly and respec for raid.
And go Outlaw Venthyr for m+. I'm in front of the npc since yesterday, but i'm hesitating soo much. I dunno why.
cunning surge
The main play for M+ I've heard is Necrolord as a whole, especially with SBS working with Flurry
But we have all the info in the pins if you wish to review it
Going Venth will probably be your safest bet
I've stayed Fae, personally
limber lion
Yes. Venthyr gang all the way
lone siren
Yeah i checked the pins in Sub's chan, Outlaw's chan and here. But i needed to talk about that with someone for real :p
I pref to be more optimised for raid than for M+, that's why i'm talking about switch to Venthyr and not necro. I gonna play Outlaw in m+ cuz as sub, i'm never taken --' Otherwise i not lovin the spec.
cunning surge
Yeah if you're looking to Min-Max for raid, Venthyr is the call
lone siren
Yeah, ok. Thx then. And sorry ^.^
cunning surge
Oh no worries, we're all here to answer any questions and concerns
pastel apex
what i have to do??
cunning surge
That's mostly RNG
Like it'll get harder to find Renown the higher up you get
So the slow down is noticeable and you're just on the wrong end of RNG atm
pastel apex
fuck
eternal wave
eternal steeple
Hello , i'm necrolord 31 renown , is emeni's better for mm+ than heirmir ?
Or heirmir better in mm+
thorn turtle
i feel like heirmir is better for m+
cuz of crit being important for assa multi target
- heimir gives the same amount of agility without using the spikes from passive
frosty bridge
Where does SBS fit into the sin ST rotation?
eternal steeple
i feel like heirmir is better for m+
Ok ty ! 🙂 I'll try this
thorn turtle
just as a dot for DB i guess @frosty bridge
weary crypt
in raid st as necrolord assa, when would be ideal to use bone spike?
tropic echo
leveling in assassination before 37 is so ass lol
shy axle
it`s always ass 
tropic echo
tropic echo
i made my whole guild laugh on friday saying "HELP! the ass-ass-in is beating my ass-in"
in vc
in raid
10/10 delivery
shell ivy
Feels so great to outperform ur outlaw performance on ST bosses when u just switched to sin 🤤
tropic echo
but fr, you need venemous wounds to do dmg with assassination or you have no energy at all lol
i kinda wish i went sub to start with
shy axle
are you guys using phantom/oil like the iv guide suggests or do you sim better with stone + agi pot too?
frosty bridge
just as a dot for DB i guess <@!399532949529296916>
Sorry, whats DB? :D
slender urchin
are you guys using phantom/oil like the iv guide suggests or do you sim better w...
I simmed it the other day and oil/phantom was better ST
You can change it with the settings at the bottom of raidbots
limber lion
are you guys using phantom/oil like the iv guide suggests or do you sim better w...
I've always simmed better with stone/spectral agi pot, but you should sim yourself using the advanced sim explained here:
!oil
prisma monolithBOT
Using consumables will increase your damage, however the difference between oil/stone/potion combinations are very minor (within 0.5% of each other). You can sim the difference for yourself by pasting this pastebin underneath your /simc input, in the "advanced sim" section of raidbots: https://pastebin.com/Lbxc7afJ
limber lion
Sorry, whats DB? :D
Doomblade
thorn seal
is there a best covenant for m+?
shell ivy
Anybody has an updated list for pi increase on each class? Or has anything really changed
thorn turtle
hungering
quaint phoenix
Decent
quaint phoenix
Our dps at hungering is disgusting actually
thorn turtle
outlaws are frothing
quaint phoenix
Balding
lapis warren
in raid st as necrolord assa, when would be ideal to use bone spike?
you likely use it at the start to get the dot up, then depends on the fight if there are adds / more targets or not. Where you spread spikes as needed, otherwise you try not to cap 3 spikes.
sullen pagoda
ilvl 
gentle gyro
a bunch of 1.4k rio players just depleted my +15 HoA. how. I'm legit malding here
pseudo hamlet
It's cancer week tho, hate the storming
gentle gyro
yeah it does
there are two casters before the 2nd hard
you need a ranged kick for them else you pull the shard as well
guess who didn't kick
misty holly
boomie?
gentle gyro
boomie and mage. but one of them managed to pull the shard anyways
you legit cannot be picky enough when it comes to inviting people, it's insane.
gentle gyro
is device any good, realistically?
thorn turtle
2.4 valor left for 220 phial
royal lantern
quantum is not THAT great in reality, just saying
i mean, your healers will be happy
free mana
stable yarrow
Which lego do guys use for Sin m+?
thorn turtle
zold ^
stable yarrow
Kk
frigid kestrel
Dread 220 Hateful 213
So ill just Rock my 220 Phial and 220 Dread and give up the hunt for device
thorn turtle
yeah rock those 2 deffo
frigid kestrel
Or should i wear Hateful in keys > Dread?
frigid kestrel
phial is a fcking dream
Ye, i farmed that first
tulip orchid
!guide
prisma monolithBOT
frank sail
@quaint phoenix That pic of your ilvl parse on hungering, i had a ganders at your stats. how did you find Deeper Strat with a 22% haste? does it feel fine
frigid kestrel
<@!254346351448555520> That pic of your ilvl parse on hungering, i had a gander...
I run Deeper with 19.3 Haste and it dont feel that bad at all
besides the opener
deep knoll
do I put haste and crit on legendary?
frank sail
I have 28% haste (food buffed) and got my first HC tonight since the venth change
but only 20% crit.. so i guess i can afford to drop some haste for deeper and get more crit now then?
frigid kestrel
but only 20% crit.. so i guess i can afford to drop some haste for deeper and ge...
Ye, sims will tell you your best course of action tho
Sims been telling me Deeper since i was at %16
frank sail
Yeh thought as much, sims suggest crit weighs higher atm
thorn seal
is there a best covenant for purely m+?
frigid kestrel
is there a best covenant for purely m+?
All close, but i think NF beats out
1st Strike is legit
thorn seal
nice one thanks @frigid kestrel
frail fossil
Necro/nf yes
frank sail
Something doesnt seem right here?
OOOH sims were set to 2 boss...
problem solved sorry xD
gloomy fern
not forgiven, ruined my day
quaint phoenix
@frank sail feels just fine dude, a bit slow at times but dmg proves itself
dungeon slice sim?
XD
or how do you sum 7,3k with your ilvl
sim*
grim hornet
im kinda lost with assassination rn. What are recomended stats on doomblade? which slot? purely for raid st as i have outlaw for m+ and aoe/cleave fights
cold fulcrum
About pvp assa, is necro far better than venth or close?
edgy pawn
with MA and DS, do i still go env -> mut -> env during MA, or do i go Env -> Mut -> Mut to get to 6cp?
frail fossil
im kinda lost with assassination rn. What are recomended stats on doomblade? whi...
haste crit or haste vers on hands
iron orchid
About pvp assa, is necro far better than venth or close?
I think venthyr is actually better but ain't sure, you could ask in #pvp
willow eagle
Where did all the sin pins go?
stoic needle
They got updated yesterday wdym
gentle gyro
flag slams in pvp
willow eagle
I only see one pin
stoic needle
Restart your discord app
iron orchid
yup
cold fulcrum
Is flag the venth skill?
willow eagle
Aight can see them now thanks
wide flare
hey guys, what do you prefer for raid? Well-Placed Steel or Lethal Poisons? (I'm necro)
gentle gyro
wps > lp
wide flare
thx
gentle gyro
also, 
gentle gyro
maim, really?
actually, does maim scale with doomblade? as in, does doomblade deal more damage with maim, mangle equipped?
i mean we have no potency conduit slot to spare anyways, but would be interesting to know
also excuse me for using the s word
stoic needle
Yeah the dot does do more damage with maim mangle. It's good as a 2nd potency for non venthyr, it's slightly behind wps
The doomblade dot is based on your mutilate damage and maim mangle increases that
mighty ether
hi guess question what are the best daggers you can get from m+?
or well considered the best in terms of stats
inner hull
!guide
prisma monolithBOT
vocal karma
Mist daggers should be the best
steep hamlet
how does the MA opener and use of vanish differ to subterfuge in the rotation?
its just pooling for envemons right and then getting big crits
burnt star
Mist/plaguefall dagger for me.
royal lantern
just farmed PF
like, weapon stats dont make a difference anyway
might aswell fish for phial 
burnt star
U can do something in raidbot: drop optimiser. Put the item as g.vault 220. And u will see all dungeon loot
burnt star
Off hand is all about the stat. Not the weapon damagr
royal lantern
not THAT true in SL anymore
offhand dps is still really low
but not 100%worthless like it was in BfA
burnt star
Imagine getting 226 weapon from g vault
Got 1 dagger since week 1
And that was this week
Anyways. Sims will tell u what to get...
plain thistle
Got 1 dagger since week 1
same, killed mythic denath with 2x 220 weapons 
next tier ill do pvp for sure, better to get a 226 that way
polar willow
if i have 4 combo points, for doomblade do i use another mut to envenom at 5?
slender berry
next tier they might go back to wod system where pvp items only get high ilvl when used in pvp
but who knows
plain thistle
that would be nice actually, I like do to pvp sometimes but I dont want to be "forced" into it
or they could do something about pve weapon drop (they did but not enough)
dark hollow
so shiv nuance q. i know we want it ok cool down, regardless of CP. i also know we don’t want to reapply bleeds. if we’ve got bleeds falling off are we holding shiv? reapply bleeds early? just accepting the misalignment?
slender berry
yea i kinda agree but if i didnt do pvp i would still have 2x 213 weapons after 3 mythic denathrius kills
plain thistle
something like a bad luck protection 
(for the vault)
slender berry
so that aspect is nice
reef axle
if i have 4 combo points, for doomblade do i use another mut to envenom at 5?
If you have deeper strat, envenom at 5-6, if you’re using vigor, envenom at 4-5
polar willow
thanks
burnt star
Rais boss should drop a currenxy/token. And after x amount u can buy a raid item. Like they do in ff14. It could be after 8 dena kill for exemple. Would allow u to buy a dena item
Thats a nice badluck protection
plain thistle
8 kills is probably too much in my opinion
burnt star
If u didnt get shkt after 8 kill of the same boss.. ur really badluxky
For a 233 weapon.
Its like that in ff14. And i felt it was thw nice amount tbh
Some item required less
Like 4 kill
plain thistle
but hey, last expansion I got my first mythic weapon from carapace after 11 kills 
dark hollow
given that everything is personal loot idk why they don’t do some kind of weighting system that accounts for personal drought and bake it right into drop manipulation
burnt star
They cant code it right
They are suppose to have increased weapon drop in mythic. 3 weeks ago. Yet with my guild we didnt see 1 token drop since
plain thistle
I would love a "ban" system for the vault, getting itens for a specific slot when you just need a couple itens can be super hard
burnt star
And we are 7/10
plain thistle
last week I think I got 3 wrist in my vault, but I use BoE with socket
burnt star
Rofl...
3 wrist
My alt. On his 2nd gvault got 2 chest. Of wich 1 was a duplicate from week1
Talk about rng
Yet it took me 30 plaguefall to get a phial.... and it wasnt even a drop from me.. my friend had to give it to me
I bet ill get 226 vial in chest now
Just to slapme in the face
plain thistle
cant complain in that regard, got a 226 in my vault, and it was actually a better upgrade than a 226 weapon
burnt star
A 220 vial was 60 dps increase over skulker 226 for.me
So i can imagine
But probly a 226 offhand
plain thistle
yeah, last time I simmed the pvp dagger was 50-53 dps
dense bramble
so shiv nuance q. i know we want it ok cool down, regardless of CP. i also know ...
i really want to know this too. Was it answered?
compact pumice
!guide
prisma monolithBOT
terse ice
@dark hollow i think you are right, but remember to pool a bit energy before using shiv, so you can at least use 2 envenom, best ist 3
wild birch
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's:
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
wild birch
Here you go
terse ice
a secret tipp is also this WA, its very good: Velldanas Rogue (3 in 1) Shadowlands
search for that tag if you like
versed canopy
Assassination good?
terse ice
yes
versed canopy
Finally?
lime parrot
guys someone got a good opener for necro ?
terse ice
im curious what you looking for, feel free to show us your weak aura which you like @strange python
strange python
i want weakaura with anime icons 
raven locust
🤮
dense bramble
guys someone got a good opener for necro ?
i'm running subterfuge so i open gar > snd > mut > sbs > rup > mut > shiv/vendetta > envenom
but probably isn't the better
lime parrot
I try it bro thanks
gentle gyro
can i somehow sim items at a higher ilvl?
aka i have a headpiece at like 207 but i wanna sim it at 220
limber lion
You can use gear compare in raidbots
Then just input the same item but at a different ilvl
loud mason
Havent played rogue since early shadowlands, can rogues solo thorgast yet? or twisting ?
limber lion
Yes both
loud mason
should i go outlaw or?
limber lion
Doesn't matter, just play what you want
Assa is probably considered the hardest though
But it's not significant and you can succeed with any spec
loud mason
aight il give it a shot
gentle gyro
ok and now it just compares the two item sets? never really used gear compare
gentle gyro
leeching poison
subtle kiln
Assa is probably considered the hardest though
debatable. get the leeching and just kite when needed.
limber lion
ok and now it just compares the two item sets? never really used gear compare
Yeh then it compares two item sets, one with your old equipment and the other an exact copy of it, except for the items you put in.
loud mason
aight thanks m8
gentle gyro
alright. let's see
limber lion
debatable. get the leeching and just kite when needed.
Outlaw and Sub don't need to kite, that's the thing
gentle gyro
saves me the hassle of manually editing the simc output values
limber lion
Assa blasts bosses easier but might struggle with the packs
subtle kiln
you can skip packs. can’t skip bosses
limber lion
And in TC you need to kill stuff to get powers, can't just run to the last boss everytime
limber lion
you can skip packs. can’t skip bosses
Yeh but you're forced to in TC
frigid kestrel
Mythiic Prog for Lady... Doomblade is the way to go, ye?
limber lion
Mythiic Prog for Lady... Doomblade is the way to go, ye?
Yes
frigid kestrel
Wasnt sure if Zod was good for the adds and the last %30
gentle gyro
definitely
frigid kestrel
Bet
limber lion
But yeah like said, doesn't really matter. They're all fine for Torg.
gentle gyro
you need to meet a dps check, not execute
limber lion
I play Assa myself
frigid kestrel
I kept swapping between the two last week on prog
subtle kiln
i mean if you want to zoom through it keep resetting TC until you can get the 10x resource gain from skeletons and once the see hidden drops you pick and chose.
frigid kestrel
Easy that means come Tuesday ill rank 3 my Doom and keep Zod at 2
limber lion
i mean if you want to zoom through it keep resetting TC until you can get the 10...
Yeh pretty much.
subtle kiln
and at that point assa is stronger.
but if you’re going to just run what pops. roll the dice and pray. lol
umbral berry
400% ss evis spam is nutty tbh
high arch
Hey guys, we're not using ambush on ST opener even w/ MA+Subterfuge talented?
brittle pawn
!ambush
prisma monolithBOT
Macroing Ambush to Mutilate only works with the use of a addon.
It comes with the downside that it often requires multiple key presss.
Suggested addon to use(Gnome Sequencer):http://tiny.cc/mxb6tz
Showcase Video: #assassination message
brittle pawn
!blindside
prisma monolithBOT
Macroing Ambush to Mutilate only works with the use of a addon.
It comes with the downside that it often requires multiple key presss.
Suggested addon to use(Gnome Sequencer):http://tiny.cc/mxb6tz
Showcase Video: #assassination message
high arch
So we only using ambush w/ Blindside procs?
brittle pawn
yes
high arch
Thanks
frigid kestrel
400% ss evis spam is nutty tbh
This
young flume
crit mutilate gives up to 4 CP and Ambush crit max 3 cp right?
ornate lake
ye raz
young flume
ty, was wondering why we'd open with mutilate instead of ambush but thats why I guess thx
ornate lake
also has to do with possible blind side proc and poison apply
but yes, one of the reasons
young flume
ah yeah makes even more sense
final star
I just have a separate bind for ambush
limber lion
I just have a separate bind for ambush
As you should
final star
No macro needed etc 😂
signal sluice
ventyr or necro for assa? 🙂 with this patch?)
plucky pasture
yo guys !!! If I want to play all 3 specs what is the best covenant now?
fluid dust
I've been heavily considering going necro from venthyr, I want to play outlaw dungeons and assass for raid. Is necro fun to play for assass?
limber lion
yo guys !!! If I want to play all 3 specs what is the best covenant now?
Look at the pins in the spec channels.
Venthyr is bis for Assa/Sub ST, Necro is BiS for Outlaw in general, NF best for Sub in Dungeon Slice
dense bramble
I've been heavily considering going necro from venthyr, I want to play outlaw du...
i really find necro fun for assassin
i'm necro
lethal magnet
is it worth ambushing the sepsis proc?
limber lion
is it worth ambushing the sepsis proc?
Nah
dense bramble
i mean if you want to zoom through it keep resetting TC until you can get the 10...
how can we reset it?
limber lion
Yeah, just gotta choose one spec. As long as you don't choose Kyrian, you'll be fine
sinful fable
I am guessing most will be going assa in raid for the ST fight but keep outlaw for council/stone legion / denathrius?
limber lion
I am guessing most will be going assa in raid for the ST fight but keep outlaw f...
Outlaw for SLG only, Assa for everything else.
sinful fable
is it really that bad? yikes
limber lion
Sub is probably the best spec for Council, not 100%.
sturdy mesa
I am guessing most will be going assa in raid for the ST fight but keep outlaw f...
assa on dena is nutty
dawn root
Venthyr feels so so good as assa. The dmg and haste proc during vendetta window is so strong.
sinful fable
well, guess I'm taking the plunge and learning assa :/ Still gonna stick with outlaw for m+ tho (which is most of my content)
jade meadow
Guys i had a pause from wow i love rogue , but i love POISONS . Recently i saw new assasins updates and i'm rushy to try them.
Sadly im M+ player and from what i saw we good only on bosses?
fading wigeon
I've been heavily considering going necro from venthyr, I want to play outlaw du...
Venth, necro, and NF are close enough that it doesn't matter which one you pick. Just pick what's fun
terse ice
sin is solid in m+ too, but its just that outlaw performs a bit better
dawn root
Assa is one of the easiest specs to learn in the game. Maybe after DH
gusty mirage
I’d argue monk’s even easier than assa
limber lion
Sadly im M+ player and from what i saw we good only on bosses?
No, Assa is really good for all content. Outlaw is slightly better for M+ and has more utility tools, which is generally why high ranked players prefer Outlaw.
gusty mirage
But yeah it’s not extremely difficult to learn
jade meadow
If i wanna play assa in m+ and raids should i take venthyr ?
limber lion
If i wanna play assa in m+ and raids should i take venthyr ?
Yeh
oblique copper
If i wanna play assa in m+ and raids should i take venthyr ?
sims support that, logs as well
sinful fable
hum, I wonder how annoying/difficult the swap to assa from outlaw would be. My current logs on hc are 95% average and on mythic I sit on around 75-80 on most fights (only 6/10 mythic atm) and in M+ doing random 15's with friends I usually land on 5.5 ish
limber lion
hum, I wonder how annoying/difficult the swap to assa from outlaw would be. My c...
Won't be too bad. The gear is similar, except for the weapon and legendary.
It's an easy spec to pick up honestly.
hexed root
for doomblade has there been any certainity on which slot to make it?
limber lion
for doomblade has there been any certainity on which slot to make it?
Yes.
dawn root
Gloves I believe
hexed root
I've heard shoulders so far but wasn't sure how much it matters
limber lion
That's incorrect then.
hexed root
good to know
limber lion
It's either:
- Doesn't matter
or - Gloves, because you can get Mythic SLG shoulders
If you know you won't kill M SLG, then just switch out the lower ilvl item for the legendary
hexed root
i plan to get CE so sounds like gloves it is
subtle kiln
how can we reset it?
idk if it was answered. walk out of the instance and walk back in. TC is 100% rng what layer you start with.
limber lion
i plan to get CE so sounds like gloves it is
There we go then :p
fluid dust
i really find necro fun for assassin
Cheers, I'm a little concerned that venthyr might be fixing my characters low haste due to nadija/flagellation - May I ask what haste you're running necro assass with? I'm currently at ~500 haste and I'm worried without venthyr necro might not play super well with such low haste
limber lion
Cheers, I'm a little concerned that venthyr might be fixing my characters low ha...
The haste doesn't really matter. It's not like you can't play the class or your dps is significantly lower because of low haste.
tacit plover
Think venthyr is bis for outlaw ST aswel
young flume
Thinking of going Assa for the first time on HC Denathrius reclear today. Is the plan spamming fan of knives on the add phase P1, and upkeeping bleeds on both Denny and Remornia + melee adds on P2 whilst doing the usual stuff in between that?
limber lion
The haste doesn't really matter. It's not like you can't play the class or your ...
I have 500 haste myself and I'm doing pretty good in the raid and m+.
limber lion
Thinking of going Assa for the first time on HC Denathrius reclear today. Is the...
Ye pretty much.
hexed root
from what I've been seeing/reading if you want to balance PVP and PVE, night fae niya is still the best, and apparently Niya is still best for Outlaw. But if you want to go all in on PVE ass/venth is the path
fluid dust
Aite thanks lads 🙂
limber lion
Try envenoming first before FoKing so you have a higher chance to proc poisons on the adds.
oblique copper
m+ are pve as well you know
limber lion
from what I've been seeing/reading if you want to balance PVP and PVE, night fae...
Niya is not the best for Outlaw. Necro is. But the point still stands, NF is the most versatile one for sure.
oblique copper
and necro outlaw is better there
young flume
Ye pretty much.
thank you very much! is it worth throwing a FoK after envenom p2 as well if theres like an add, remornia and Denny to spread poisons or not worth the globals in that context
hexed root
is blood mallet outdated?
limber lion
is blood mallet outdated?
Blood mallet is not the greatest source for sims and comparisons. Read the pins in the spec channels instead, those are updated 24/7
And have more accurate TC and sims behind it.
hexed root
99% of my comments will be ST related. It does show necro ahead by a lot for hectic add cleave
limber lion
99% of my comments will be ST related. It does show necro ahead by a lot for hec...
Niya is literally 1 dps higher than Venthyr and 3 dps higher than Necro in ST according to @sudden brook 's profile and sims. Much better to go with Necro which stomps them in AoE settings.
dense bramble
Cheers, I'm a little concerned that venthyr might be fixing my characters low ha...
i got 642 haste = 19.45% but that's because i'm still using pvp badge which grants 86 haste. Still didn't got a better trinket 😦
limber lion
You get over it pretty quickly. Took me less than a day.
hexed root
That's hype.
limber lion
thank you very much! is it worth throwing a FoK after envenom p2 as well if ther...
No, don't use FoK in P2 or P3. Only in P1.
Just use mutilates to generate there.
manic quartz
with subterfuge, does the opener go like, muti>snd>gar> muti >rupture>trink/vendetta>flag>shiv > vanish to mutilate and if 5cp+ envenom?
limber lion
with subterfuge, does the opener go like, muti>snd>gar> muti >rupture>trink/vend...
Melkein, mut ei ihan
manic quartz
could you elborate 😛
full flicker
bis stats assa?
dense bramble
vanish to mutilate with subterfuge gives no dps increase
limber lion
Gar > snd > muti > muti > vend > flag > rup > shiv > muti > env
manic quartz
im playing with MA talent
limber lion
Aight
Here's the rotation for MA/DS:
Muti - Snd - Muti - Gar - Vend - Flag - Rup - Shiv - Vanish - Muti - Env - Muti
manic quartz
Ty, torille
limber lion
If you want, you can also build to 5-6 cp before using vend-flag-rup in case you only get 2 cp with the second muti
manic quartz
the gap between from the 2nd mut to garrote feels so clunky 😒
limber lion
Yeh, everyone says the same.
But good thing it's only the opener.
@tribal marlin was trying out different openers to see if Muti - Rup - Muti - Gar would be better to get the energy rolling earlier especially when not using lust
But I think it didn't show a dps increase and is more feelcrafty.
sinful fable
okay, so I've decided to make the change to assa for both raid and M+ and from looking at it, I am guessing Doomblade is the one to get first? And work on execute ones after that? Or does doomblade perform horribly for m+? (I mostly run 15-16 keys with friends btw)
limber lion
okay, so I've decided to make the change to assa for both raid and M+ and from l...
Doomblade is not the best choice for M+ yeah, Zoldyck is still the king.
Zoldyck is still pretty decent on most fights, but Doomblade is definitely the play for most bosses.
sinful fable
yeah so to not gimp myself too hard in raids, I'll just start with Doomblade and then get Zoldyck after R4 Doomblade
limber lion
yeah so to not gimp myself too hard in raids, I'll just start with Doomblade and...
If you're switching from Outlaw, I'm guessing you have MA?
sinful fable
I have MA yes
limber lion
Because MA can be very good in M+ as well in place of Zoldyck
You can just run Doomyboy in raids and MA in M+
sinful fable
R4 celerity, R3 MA
limber lion
Yeh there we go, just run MA until you get Zoldyck to swap to.
hexed root
does venth ass hold up in pvp?
limber lion
does venth ass hold up in pvp?
Yes, it's very good and bursty.
sinful fable
nice! And for stats @ doomblade, I am guessing haste/crit
hexed root
good to know
timid oar
Yeah it’s a contender atm
hexed root
was gonna try to make a run for 2100 as nf sub before swapping
timid oar
Pvp needs more data I think
limber lion
nice! And for stats @ doomblade, I am guessing haste/crit
Yep!
honest vector
So I’m switch from outlaw to sin I got MA and just trying to see what the rotation is just got back to playing and went outlaw
sinful fable
Thank you so much for keeping up with my shitty quiestions ❤️
loud estuary
I have a question about ambush vs mutilate, do you only choose mutilate over ambush when you have MA?
limber lion
Thank you so much for keeping up with my shitty quiestions ❤️
No worries, that's why were here 
limber lion
I have a question about ambush vs mutilate, do you only choose mutilate over amb...
No, you want to use Mutilate always in place of Ambush, except for when you get a free blindside-proc
hexed root
/cry
prisma monolithBOT
Ambush is currently only used from blindside/sepsis proc, not from stealth.
The reasoning is a little complicated, but the most important of them is the difference in combo points on crit (up to 4 vs 3).
Some other factors to consider are increased poison applications, blindside, and doomblade. This is true for all talent combinations and legendaries.
loud estuary
so the combo points outweighs, got it, was unsure
loud estuary
Same for PvP? Or is ambush better for PvP?
hexed root
talk about useless now
limber lion
so the combo points outweighs, got it, was unsure
Yeh, There's a lot more to it as well, but generally it's the CP.
limber lion
Same for PvP? Or is ambush better for PvP?
Ambush has its place in PvP because it does more damage upfront. You need to play around it a bit there
loud estuary
aight
arctic cloud
Is the S word still banned round these woods?
limber lion
Stonks? Sin? Sigmund Freud? Shit? Sea Shanty 2?
thorn dove
On sludgefist do we pop cooldowns and first trinket on pull and then second trinket on first pillar?
limber lion
On sludgefist do we pop cooldowns and first trinket on pull and then second trin...
Which 2 trinkets do you use? Memory and DFV?
Popping cooldowns is generally dependant on which pillar you lust.
thorn dove
Dreadfire and quantum
limber lion
If you lust on the first/third one on HC, pop them on the first pillar and third.
If you lust on the second/fourth one, pop CD's in the beginning, 2nd pillar and 4th.
limber lion
Dreadfire and quantum
I would save Dreadfire for the pillar and use Quantum on pull.
Especially on HC you want to use quantum asap so you can get a second use out of it during the fight because its on such a long cooldown
thorn dove
Brilliant, thanks
sinful fable
#DontLookBack
limber lion
#DontLookBack
Venthyr gang 🧛
Now just do the first calling/missions in the sanctum and go blast lfr/normal/heroic raids
slender trail
i'm so close to switching to necro. i know i should just wait for the 9.1 raid to be announced and fight specifics to come out
primal zinc
guys
quick question to "experts" kappa
doesit matter the procc chance of sinfull to mainhand or offhand?
does it *
slender trail
no
you can sim to find out for yourself but it's within single digit dps (margin of error)
so it's equal
oblique copper
i'm so close to switching to necro. i know i should just wait for the 9.1 raid ...
swapping covenants takes like a day if it's your first time joining a covenant and 2 if not (and done at the end of the weekly cd), it's not that big a decision
planning your current covenant for the next raid tier is wrong
thorn turtle
getting into pug sire group is so hard even having a curve jesus
do u go vigor or deeper for raid? or u pick what sims better?
cloud reef
sinful fable
hmm, deeper strat sims 40 dps higher for me, but not sure if its worth it to give up the smoothness of vigor :/
subtle kiln
you’re going to play deeper at some point once you get more haste. it’s jump into it now.
static wadi
how much haste tho
sinful fable
im currently at 791 haste (24%)
subtle kiln
insert stat weight / soft cap meme here
sinful fable
1337 agi (nice)
iron vigil
As Vent do we pick Dauntless Ruelist for raids and Exacting preparation for mythic plus?
thorn turtle
i always have duelist
unless we're doing SD then i get 2 potency and less roots etc
brittle pawn
theotar m+
iron vigil
i really wish we had another potency conduit we could use
subtle kiln
vigor still has a flaw, it’s easier to overpool energy on fights with downtime. it’s just something to take into consideration.
thorn turtle
imagine having conduit energy @brittle pawn 
brittle pawn
dont need conduit energy to change soulbind >.>
thorn turtle
need it to put the conduits in tho
brittle pawn
your theotar is empty?
gusty mirage
Switching back venthyr absolutely gutted my conduit energy
A lot of bad conduits were already placed because they were all I had 
subtle kiln
you should have all of them just from doing callings if the toon is more than a couple weeks at 60
WQ, callings, dungeons, raid
gusty mirage
I have all my conduits, but I was playing ones that I had placed in those when I was venthyr almost 2 months ago and/or testing stupid shit out in pvp
So I burned through a bunch just fixing them up, now I’m burned out 
It’ll even itself out in a few days, it’s just a minor annoyance currently
stoic needle
im currently at 791 haste (24%)
That's more than enough to run deeper imo
topaz saffron
My sims are still pulling Vigor as better even at 31% 😳
limber lion
Okay I made myself a copy-pasta for when someone asks about venthyr rotation again
For no reason whatsoever, no clue why I did it
Could have just linked to logs or raidbots
wanton reef
Has anyone tried out decanter of anima charged winds in m+ ?
limber lion
Single target with the Master Assassin talent:
Muti - SnD - Muti - Gar - Flag - Rup - Vend - Shiv - Vanish - Muti - Env - Muti (until 5-6 cp) - Env, etc.
2 targets with Master Assassin and Poison Bomb talents:
Make sure to keep Garrotes and Ruptures on both targets at all times after the opener.```
2 targets with **Subterfuge** and **Poison Bomb** talents:
```Gar (target 1) - Gar (target 2) - Mutilate - Flag - Slice - Muti* - Rupture - Vend - Shiv - Muti (until 5-6 CP) - Env, etc.
Vanish when Garrotes are in pandemic range (under 6s) then reapply Garrotes to the target.
Make sure to keep Garrotes and Ruptures on both targets at all times after the opener.```
3 targets with **Subterfuge** and **Crimston Tempest** talents:
```Gar (target 1) - Gar (target 2) - Gar (target 3) - SnD - Muti - Rup - Muti - Muti - Flag - Vendetta - Shiv - CT - Muti - Vanish - Reapply Garrotes on all targets, etc.
Make sure to keep Ruptures and Crimson Tempest on all 3 targets at all times if possible and if the targets live the full duration. Use Garrote on cooldown to reapply it to a target that doesn't have it.```
*All rotations above assume using the Venthyr covenant and Deeper Stratagem talent on the third talent row.*
* = You might want to use this Mutilate on your second target instead of your main, IF you are missing poisons from the second target. You want to have poisons up on both targets or you will not benefit from Venomous Wounds.
Opener rotation does not change whether you use Vigor or Deeper Stratagem. Only thing that changes, is that you want to build to 4-5 CP instead of 5-6CP *AFTER* the opener, when talented to Vigor instead of DS respectively.
topaz saffron
😍
subtle kiln
My sims are still pulling Vigor as better even at 31% 😳
link?
limber lion
Has anyone tried out decanter of anima charged winds in m+ ?
Yeah it's pretty decent, but most raid trinkets (and Phial) pull ahead unless you get a 226 one from the vault.
iron vigil
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/sxbnLnTAnmpYsEkr3epbdc depper strat is better for me
limber lion
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/sxbnLnTAnmpYsEkr3epbdc depper strat is b...
It is for most Venthyr's.
You didn't even sim the other talents in that row on that sim 
stoic needle
My sims are still pulling Vigor as better even at 31% 😳
Wanna share one of those sims? I'd be interested to see how
iron vigil
i was doing one at a time sorry
stoic needle
Has anyone tried out decanter of anima charged winds in m+ ?
Yeah it's a pretty great trinket
subtle kiln
Wanna share one of those sims? I'd be interested to see how
my guess would be abysmal levels of crit
but still want to see it
topaz saffron
Wanna share one of those sims? I'd be interested to see how
limber lion
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/gaJmzbbKJ9Sa66ZCrzLxDA
Blindside my man
You need Blindside
subtle kiln
dungeon slice
limber lion
Also, that's dungeon slice
subtle kiln
kek
topaz saffron
We using BS in M+ now?
stoic needle
Single target with the **Master Assassin** talent:
```Muti - SnD - Muti - Gar - ...
@balmy condor 
pin this tbh
topaz saffron
Apologies, I got confused
limber lion
No worries we're all bros here
subtle kiln
we were talking about ST setups. all good
stoic needle
Yeah, vigor is fine for m+
The more I play with it the more I enjoy having the big energy pool
limber lion
I love Vigor. It makes M+ so much more enjoyable for me
I always think of myself as someone who wants to see big numbers, but even if DS pulled ahead in DungSlice, I still would use Vigor
sinful fable
For M+ talenwise, I am guessing something like 3 2 1 2 2 2 3?
limber lion
It just feels so much better
stoic needle
Single target with the **Master Assassin** talent:
```Muti - SnD - Muti - Gar - ...
Tbh though I would put vend before flag in all of these openers, and ct before snd on 3t but otherwise this is good shit
limber lion
Tbh though I would put vend before flag in all of these openers, and ct before s...
Yeah, I would Vend before Flag as well myself, I just took these straight from the sims.
slow marsh
There's something to be said about having more energy in m+ anyways. Putting up multiple ruptures is better than outting up longer ruptures
limber lion
I've been preaching Vend - Flag since Wednesday but I figured I'll just type out what the robot thinks is better
stray ivy
hows sin in m+ now
slow marsh
Flag does enough damage to warrant vendetta before for sure
limber lion
hows sin in m+ now
It's pretty good, struggles in low keys a bit.
topaz saffron
hows sin in m+ now
Consistent Damage, IMO
limber lion
It's competitive, but not as much as Outlaw.
stray ivy
what counts as low keys these days , under 20?
manic quartz
i would play assa but multi targetting is something i dont wanna do so im just outlulin in m+ i might try sin occasionallly
slow marsh
I mean you literally just press tab rupture but sure
cedar lynx
Tbh though I would put vend before flag in all of these openers, and ct before s...
When would you snd ?
limber lion
i would play assa but multi targetting is something i dont wanna do so im just o...
Yeh, it requires good nameplates and good keybinds as well or it's a bit iffy
stoic needle
When would you snd ?
I'd just swap the places of ct and snd in that example, might need to put a mutilate before the CT to make sure it's at max cp
muted narwhal
Is Rogue the only class that uses agility daggers?
stoic needle
Imo snd is slightly less important now because it doesn't give energy
unreal laurel
Is Rogue the only class that uses agility daggers?
Feral
keen dome
Shaman
stoic needle
Monk
muted narwhal
Monk uses daggers?
stoic needle
They can afaik
muted narwhal
Awesome, thank you friends ❤️
cedar lynx
ok ok, i've been struggling with snd in dungeon didn't know when it would be more efficient on multiple target. Thanks
tribal marlin
<@!311139294741790721> was trying out different openers to see if Muti - Rup - M...
Yeah it was showing a +0.5% on sims between 70 and 90s, but I was not able to witness any particular gain over longer sims, probably some edge cases I was too lazey to investigae. This is without lust btw.
stoic needle
I mean you literally just press tab rupture but sure
Honestly yeah, tab mut/gar rupture is very satisfying and gets the job done
cedar lynx
btw should we follow the same priority for 3+ ?
limber lion
ok ok, i've been struggling with snd in dungeon didn't know when it would be mor...
Just make sure you have 4-5 cp after every pack so you can use SND before the next pack and you're gucci
manic quartz
I mean you literally just press tab rupture but sure
yes which is more effort than just staying in single target xD
wanton reef
Yeah it's a pretty great trinket
If im doing a lot of m+, is it worth upgrading it to 220?
cedar lynx
Just make sure you have 4-5 cp after every pack so you can use SND before the ne...
ok, i've been trying to envenom before the previous pack ends
but i'll try this way
stoic needle
If im doing a lot of m+, is it worth upgrading it to 220?
Hmm.. I would say yes, but valor is a bit of a limited resource. I'd say hold onto it and if you don't get any vault trinkets in a few weeks then upgrade it
Because you could upgrade it and then get something better the next week
That would suck
limber lion
If im doing a lot of m+, is it worth upgrading it to 220?
I'd just sim it with Droptimizer and see how it fares up against your trinkets and the other dungeon trinkets.
static wadi
Btw in the opener do you guys wait a bit with vanish for Energy or just open right after?
stoic needle
I've been finding opening with CT from stealth to be really awesome as well instead of spending that cp on maintaining snd
manic quartz
Sims take accounts shiv for Phial? Chain is simmin more for me, tho i got only 207 phial
stoic needle
Sims take accounts shiv for Phial? Chain is simmin more for me, tho i got only 2...
Shiv doesn't work with Phial
manic quartz
i could swore that when i shived it did more dmg 😮
stoic needle
And chain is really good with lots of haste, the proc chance is hasted
limber lion
i could swore that when i shived it did more dmg 😮
It didn't.
Maybe you proc'd a second stack on it
stoic needle
No trinkets work with shiv. The only thing that does is sepsis
bold jetty
so i see top1 parses from china rogue and he is opening with ambush-> snd
limber lion
Btw in the opener do you guys wait a bit with vanish for Energy or just open rig...
I wait a bit just so I can use 3 gcd's without any issue
stoic needle
Stop looking at #1 parses
limber lion
so i see top1 parses from china rogue and he is opening with ambush-> snd
He is also getting 25 External Buffs in a fight.
stoic needle
They're not reliable information
bold jetty
yea thats why i asked 😄
limber lion
You should not compare yourself to someone who
- has a team full of 228 ilvl CE people
- gets external buffs
onyx wind
The shorter the fight, the better EP is it seems
bold jetty
yea especially 2
stoic needle
Also the more haste you get the better EP is because you don't need the free CP/ambushes from bs as much
limber lion
You should compare your fights to fights of similar length, execution and ilvl.
bold jetty
4 power infusion lol
manic quartz
It didn't.
seems to be the case, ty
limber lion
Yeh, I run Vigor/EP on 2 min fights
limber lion
wdy think bout eb with 21% haste?
Sim it.
onyx wind
what is eb
thorn turtle
ep
limber lion
We don't have answers for what's better at what haste %
stoic needle
It's gonna sim worse at 5min for sure
limber lion
Too many factors in play and only the sim can tell you which is better.
onyx wind
As soon as theres some cleave, EP seems to be better for me
limber lion
But yeah, 5 min def will be worse.
stoic needle
You need to be getting fed PI for EP to sim better than BS on a long fight
onyx wind
so on 2 targets+
limber lion
As soon as theres some cleave, EP seems to be better for me
On 2 targets you'd probably run Subterfuge (and maybe CT) as well.
Changes it up quite a bit.
onyx wind
u can run both EP and subterfuge
limber lion
Ye
So you'd run EP - Subt - CT or EP - Subt - PB, and not EP - MA - CT or EP - MA - PB
stoic needle
I've been really enjoying cttc in m+, it makes opening from stealth with a 5cp CT and 2x garottes into a 2cp snd and then mut/fok> ruptures actually work out quite well. By the time snd starts to fall off you can toss an envenom to extend it
oblique copper
are dummies bugged for sin or why my sbs on st generates like 4-5 cp constantly? it's not even seal fate, only 1 of 3 casts crit
stoic needle
You have to log out to reset the extra cp effect from sbs I think
Sbs is kinda buggy atm
unreal fern
guys do i use ambush on pull or after sepsis?
stoic needle
Never
unreal fern
I saw that some ppls mutilate some not
stoic needle
Unless with blindside
rocky ruin
https://wago.io/WULju2fnt this wont work
unreal fern
tbh I dont understand why
stoic needle
https://wago.io/WULju2fnt this wont work
I made that. Why doesn't it work for you?
vocal sierra
ST Doomblade with Ha/Crit is BiS right even with Necrolord
balmy condor
tbh I dont understand why
!mut
prisma monolithBOT
Ambush is currently only used from blindside/sepsis proc, not from stealth.
The reasoning is a little complicated, but the most important of them is the difference in combo points on crit (up to 4 vs 3).
Some other factors to consider are increased poison applications, blindside, and doomblade. This is true for all talent combinations and legendaries.
vocal sierra
?
red pagoda
if mutilate crits it can give up to 4 cp, while ambush can only give 3
vague scroll
is it even worth using shiv in single target situations?
balmy condor
is it even worth using shiv in single target situations?
Of course
Shiv is one of our main rotational skills
balmy condor
Would be trolling not to use it
rocky ruin
@stoic needle it wont show any stacks and does only work with you plater profil?
vocal sierra
I never played Assa since Cata