@hollow escarp show me the burst buffs 
#assassination
fallow otter
fallow otter
Buffs today
hollow escarp
fallow otter
Well fixes
More bug fixes
So boys
When you get a blindside proc, how many CP do you chance nuking? Do you ambush with 2free?
main blaze
5 cps club
cunning surge
I just ambush at 3 Max
If I eat a Seal Fate proc, ah well
wise gull
I can tell our raid lead has just lost all motivation, this blows
fallow otter
Running DS? @cunning surge
cunning surge
Nah Vigor
If I was running DS it would be 4 in that case
tribal marlin
PTR 9.1 soon
hollow escarp
well there was a download file
cunning surge
I tend to go in without an expectation that I'll get a seal fate proc, just so I have consistent finishers
ebon bramble
6-7 more weeks i think
ebon bramble
wait what
storm forum
9.1 is a lie, it will never come, wow dies with this patch
ebon bramble
9.1 ptr build already? wtf
tribal marlin
tho but I think they are moving some preamble for 9.1 release
ebon bramble
cant wait for rogue nerfs
ebon bramble
noice
cant wait for our set bonus
venomous wounds now grants you a 25% chance to gain 1 additional energy
i wish venomous wounds affected all bleeds 🤣 serrated bone spikkkkkeeee
reef axle
Do you just use the quantum device on CD?
wise gull
We're starting council prog and our RL is literally not calling anything
sacred yarrow
RL is hard man help em out
thin gate
Guys if theres someone who could help me fix some stuff on my ui (small changes 1-2 minutes) id appreciate it be4 spamming the chat
wise gull
he literally said "my calls are just backup you should be able to do the entire fight without me"
thin gate
so if some1 is up for some ui management pls pm me
wise gull
and just gave us some dancing fever WAs
he's not calling for jumps, healing cds, anything
balmy condor
he's not calling for jumps, healing cds, anything
who?
wise gull
my RL
gusty mirage
probably just getting a feel for it, did you just start raid?
balmy condor
nah, who the fuck asked?
gusty mirage
damn whispyr
cunning surge
Damn
thin gate
@balmy condor dont do him that dirty
wise fiber
he literally said "my calls are just backup you should be able to do the entire ...
well he is kinda right you know
lament mica
tf i hard disagree
its literally a RLs job to make calls like that
maybe not every single fever but like u should be making calls
wise gull
raid lead is so you have to think as little as possible
tribal marlin
I mean all guild in the top 100 have strong Raid Leader
gotta mean something you know
thin gate
well if the healers set up their healers inbetween them u dont need to call them
wise fiber
well this is not top 100. and if you can help your RL by being on the same page its way better
balmy condor
#wow-general <--
#off-topic <--
^^^^^^^^^^^
strange python
what raid leads should/should NOT do is entirely up to the relationship with the raid group and how they fit together, but also this is wow general stuff
blazing arrow
balmy condor
I mean, if you're gonna talk about your trash raid at least have the decency to not talk about your trash raid in a spec channel ya know
wise gull
sorry, it's just the only place i hang out
wise gull
i wont
peak helm
I want to set up a WA similar to this (https://wago.io/B1pfxTOtb) but to track a timeline of when I want to use my CDs (for fights like sludge)
Anyone know where to go to find something like that?
balmy condor
so you're looking for a rotation helper?
peak helm
Kind of, but one that I can custom program for certain fights. Like for sludge I'm holding 1.5min CDs so they line up with 2nd pillar, but I'd never normally hold a CD for 30s
So not a helper that shows what to do based on simc, but something I can personally set up to track when I want to use CDs
hollow escarp
there is some weakaura that shows total dps of the raid and tells you in how much time the boss will die
so that might be useful
not sure how to find it now, need to ask somebody that I know used it
peak helm
Not quite what I'm looking for, but maybe I could use part of it, thanks
cunning surge
If anything you can set up a WA so that it loads only on the Encounter ID for Sludgefist, which WA has in it
peak helm
For sure, yeah I could just abandon the timeline and instead just give myself pop-ups based on encounter id and time into pull
ebon bramble
i need a WA that plays for me. tells me what to press next and when
peak helm
they make that lol
solar bramble
so the flaggelation nerf didnt' affect assassination right? just sub. . . the dmg does seem to be subpar (granted i have a lower ilvl of 201, and low conduit level)
fallow otter
I want to set up a WA similar to this (https://wago.io/B1pfxTOtb) but to track a...
It's very hard not to memorise the timing once you are 20 pulls in, no much that is difficult going on honestly
solar bramble
meh bug fix, nerf . . . reduced dmg so the same thing in my opinion
i'm someoen whose played monk for long enough that "bug fixes" are treated as essentially nerfs. . they're left alone on monk for years till dmg isn't on the low end of the spectrum, then magically "fixed" . . . so to me at least. a bug fix is a nerf (though in this case .. . i can probably agree it wasn't intended that high)
peak helm
It's very hard not to memorise the timing once you are 20 pulls in, no much that...
helping with raid calls, etc. obvi can do the fight without it, but thought of it tonight and it would be helpful. Almost reflex to hit certain abilities as soon as they are up
cunning surge
WAs definitely help a lot when you have a brain fart during pull
azure fox
for Artificer, I can just shadowstep to boss a second before explosion goes off, right?
or will it not let me do that
gusty mirage
yes
azure fox
ooooooooo ty
ebon hull
guys, in missives, critical and haste?
gusty mirage
Seems to be the general consensus, but sim it to make sure. You can add leggos via top gear
ebon hull
ok thanks
tawdry trout
!guide
prisma monolithBOT
ebon hull
Has anyone tried Doomblade on m+?
knotty sparrow
I have like 30% vers from 1200 vers and 19% haste.. I’m starting to think having a bunch of duelist 226 vers/haste gear is actually non optimal
But like where the hell do you get haste/vers gear
I geared so much from PvP as sub for the sake of having bis outlaw stats but it seems like vers is a trap with sin
Like yeah it’s nice but Jesus 1200 vers is only 30% dmg. Imagine having 600 extra haste and 600 crit. Would make the 30% dmg from vers look like dog poopoo
knotty sparrow
Has anyone tried Doomblade on m+?
I did it’s nice on the bosses but trash aoe dmg is... well trash
MA + crimson tempest is way nicer, and I hear zoldycks is even better than MA for m+
Doomblade truly is a ST legendary
ebon hull
Doomblade truly is a ST legendary
I'm between creating legendary with Doomblade due to the fact that I already have MA, or going straight for Zoldycks, the problem I see with Zoldycks is that it starts working when the adds/bosses have 30% of life.
knotty sparrow
Zoldycks can be nice but the reason I stayed away from it is because although it helps in AOE, timing a 2 minute vendetta cooldown with the execute window is extremely difficult and often requires saving vendetta instead of opening with it during bloodlust
ebon hull
I don't want to play Outlaw, I really hate it xD
knotty sparrow
I have a 210 zoldycks, 235 MA, 235 celerity, 190 doomblade
ebon hull
So I see a better option to carry MA in M+, really.
knotty sparrow
The 235 MA I got for outlaw and sub performs wayyyy better in m+ compared to the zoldycks
For sin
slow marsh
are we still zold for cleave aka hunts?
knotty sparrow
I’m not sure actually I only tried sin for shriekwing and did terribly. Went outlaw for the rest of raid night
But my renown isn’t up there yet I just switched venth
But I believe the consensus is that zoldyck for cleave and doomblade for pure ST, in general
ebon hull
I'm pretty resigned to play Outlaw and that's why I'm looking for a better option to raid and m+ with Assassination, even though Outlaw is better for m+.
knotty sparrow
I think I’m just not good enough yet with sin aoe because it does hooooorible for me in 15-18s compared to outlaw
As outlaw in m+ I just MA KS and collect io
I almost feel like you have to play sin in m+ as if you’re a shadow priest
torn atlas
I think I saw some people I here suggesting that you'll drop off hard after 15 as Sin.
knotty sparrow
Dumping huge ST cooldowns into big adds
ebon bramble
I almost feel like you have to play sin in m+ as if you’re a shadow priest
i think shadow priest does better lol
knotty sparrow
Yeah for sure
ebon bramble
i honestly wish assassination. was on par with outlaw
but alas
sin is just meh even after the buffs
torn atlas
I've done a 14 which felt smooth but understand that 15 and higher just ramps a lot harder and you can't keep up with the needed damage.
knotty sparrow
Ain’t no way I’m pulling 6.5k+ overall as sin
But also I just started playing sin
Maybe with 235 zoldycks and better itemization it can work 🤷♀️
ebon bramble
you'd be working twice as hard for less dps compared to outlaw
blade flurry go brrr
knotty sparrow
Yeah true dat
hushed sphinx
ebon hull
Time to learn how to play the beautiful Outlaw Rogue and play Assassination only in raids (note the sarcasm).
😦
knotty sparrow
I did a hard switch to sin in PvP instead of sub and I LOVE IT
Sin PvP is so fucking fun it’s amazing
knotty sparrow
Flag early in rotation
Before mfd
So you can get huge CP dump procs
Maybe mut slice mut garrote flag vendetta trinket rupture shiv mute envenom MFD envenom
For example
daring tundra
MFD? In PvE?
oak arrow
whats a decent average for Overall dps in 14 and up keys for Sin?
dense hamlet
i dont think its the best in St
knotty sparrow
Huh I was thinking PvP still
dense hamlet
well
daring tundra
Think deeper strat is the go to as venth rogue in PvE
willow vine
I wanna play deeper strat but 11% haste ):
reef axle
we just use quantum off cd? or time it with vendetta
stoic needle
On CD
reef axle
ahh so regardless of situation just every 3 minutes?
gusty mirage
@stoic needle are you proud of me? :3
stoic needle
Hmm?
gusty mirage
I snuck up on everyone on Xymox and topped dps for our kill 
I need to really nail down the rotation though
I'm still messing up a lot
stoic needle
Get em' tiger
Don't worry you can just press random buttons 10% of the time and still be fine 
reef axle
how is assa doing on m+?
I mean, I’m always topping boss damage.
I just have to convince the priests for Pi...
stoic needle
not gonna lie doomblade kinda pumps in TOP
safe barn
I mean, I’m always topping boss damage.
but what about the overall tho...
other thing, are you running MA?
balmy condor
yikes
dawn ivy
running vigor knowing youre already getting 15 PIs
reef axle
Still topping, without running ct, add damage spikes between 8-9k on big pulls, and I’m running doomblade
dawn ivy
kinda wierd
heavy jolt
how much haste is required for stratagem?
ebon hull
https://prnt.sc/10jeczx
raid or m+?
heavy jolt
raid, and fae right now
balmy condor
yes, but not publicly
drowsy pond
ah rip
loud silo
HAHAHA
dawn ivy
DRASTICALLY
balmy condor
yeah just old wording from 8.3
thick jacinth
had a good laugh
safe barn
@balmy condor r u doing keys with assa?
balmy condor
yes
ebon hull
I think I'm going to end up crafting Doomblade and from there I'll test how comfortable I feel using Doomblade + MA to make Raid and M+ or if I'll have to play Assassination + Outlaw, I feel lazy to learn how to use Outlaw but well, there's no other way.
balmy condor
I have never played outlaw in meaningful content cause I would rather toaster bath
ebon hull
I don't know, there is not much information about it, I see really good damage in the few videos but they don't give much data about which legendary they carry.
thick jacinth
facts
dreamy kayak
Whispyr, thank you...those are my feelings exactly
ebon hull
I have never played outlaw in meaningful content cause I would rather toaster ba...
Do you play assassination only?
balmy condor
I know how to play sub, and played it before the aura buffs on sin
regal prawn
!stats
prisma monolithBOT
**Shadowlands: ** Haste > Versatility => Critical Strike => Mastery
solid mica
is there anything else i should do besides buy/sell gear to anima swap when i switch covenants before i do it?
dusky tide
I can put 27% flat haste on my sin, if i line up venthyr buffs (20% euphoria +20-25% Flagellation stacks) and Alacrity i got 102% oh haste, how the math works on it
fallow estuary
!guides
prisma monolithBOT
dawn ivy
almost half of what nyalotha had, nice
fallow estuary
Guess i'll dust off my sin
Do we basicly never have to refresh snd with the buff?
cursive roost
no
unless you're off target for some really extended length of time, but even dance on council it didn't drop off for me
so that seems unlikely
void carbon
What would be the dps gain from switching from night far to Venthyr
balmy condor
What would be the dps gain from switching from night far to Venthyr
have you simmed it?
void carbon
How do I do that
balmy condor
unlock all soulbinds in top gear, select a venthyr soulbind
void carbon
I have raidbits
cursive roost
I want to consume every blindside proc , except possibly one proccing from the first mut during master assassin, right?
balmy condor
np
stable moss
flag on cd or sync with ven
balmy condor
on cd unless you know you won't miss a cast
limber falcon
Yoyo! New to sin. Is there a reason why opener starts with mutilate from stealth instead of ambush?
ebon bramble
lol
manic harness
More damage
Well
More chance to proc poison since Mut hits with both hands
More combo points
ebon bramble
do you guys think assassination is competitive in m+ or is that still a pipe dream till 9.3?
manic harness
It's not as good as Outlaw but you can definitely do up to +18 or so
limber falcon
Tooltips say 2 CP for each and more damage on ambush tho. But point taken for poison application
ebon bramble
It's not as good as Outlaw but you can definitely do up to +18 or so
sadness.
cunning surge
Well yes, but Mutilate attacks twice, so each hit with Mutilate is 1 CP each, both of those can crit and offer up to 4 CP from one mutiliate
As well as, proccing Blindside if you have it Talented
limber falcon
ooooh so seal fate passive applies on ability casts as well as melee attacks crits for more CP?
cunning surge
^
balmy condor
Yoyo! New to sin. Is there a reason why opener starts with mutilate from stealth...
!mut
prisma monolithBOT
Ambush is currently only used from blindside/sepsis proc, not from stealth.
The reasoning is a little complicated, but the most important of them is the difference in combo points on crit (up to 4 vs 3).
Some other factors to consider are increased poison applications, blindside, and doomblade. This is true for all talent combinations and legendaries.
ebon bramble
ooooh so seal fate passive applies on ability casts as well as melee attacks cri...
basically anything that generates combo points
limber falcon
Yeah ok it says melee attacks on the tooltip. just checked shadow technique for sub and it says auto attacks
I get it
Thanks ppl
cunning surge
Understandable mix up
Good to know that you got a handle as to why we Mut over Ambush tho!!
ebon bramble
why?
ebon bramble
no i mean why mut over ambush again?
limber falcon
So the only reason we ever press ambush is cause its free basically
ebon bramble
limber falcon
otherwise its a worst mutilate
ebon bramble
also you double proc poison...if that matters XD
cunning surge
Otherwise it's strictly worse than Mutilate
It does matter a good bit tbh, especially during Zold and/or Shiv windows
limber falcon
Its not free from sepsis tho. Do you not press it then?
cunning surge
Nah
thorn plover
!guide
prisma monolithBOT
cunning surge
Sepsis proc kind of goes wasted with us, sadly
cunning surge
Yeah we only use it with Blindside
balmy condor
wait do we even use it with the sepsis proc?
sims do, koji's profiles do, my profiles don't, but since both koji's profiles and my profiles show the difference to be within error, neither one of us can actually convince the other to change it
ebon bramble
would it be weird if i spec elaborate planning over blindside? lol i kind of enjoy timing it
even in single target
cunning needle
within margin of error sounds like it doesn't really matter too much so
i will just press whatever button appears on my bars
ebon bramble
haha indeed
limber falcon
I dont get the logic of why i would press it at a cost if i wouldnt from stealth.
Guess it doesnt matter
cunning surge
I think Elaborate Planning would be better overall if the boss won't last that long at <35% hp??
balmy condor
cause combo point thresholding exists
cunning surge
But I'm unaware of the timeframe in which one would overtake the other
balmy condor
not all combo points are the same value
limber falcon
You mean to not overcap?
balmy condor
no
limber falcon
Timing of when you get combo points then?
balmy condor
thresholding is the concept that there are times where things are more important
cunning needle
Please enlighten us Professor Whispyr
balmy condor
ambushing at the start of the fight for 2 cp into a slice is probably fine, because that slice will get refreshed and exist forever
no problems there
but then you're in flag, and you vanish, and ambush
you're in cooldowns, you're trying to slam as much damage during those as you can
and that ambush is giving you less cp
in that situation, your combo points are worth more than they would be otherwise, and the damage from that ambush falls by the wayside
which is why we mut
slow marsh
yeah i'm learning that optimizing most cp during flag makes a huge difference for sure so ambush wouldn't be worth
balmy condor
at the end of your opener, (end of the sepsis proc in this case), the lines get more blurry
because at that point, you're already out of gas, you might not get another envenom in, etc
in which case the damage is more important than the cp at that time
this then repeats with subsequent casts
a sepsis at 1:30 without any cooldown around it
will probably want an ambush
bitter nova
any 9.0.5 updated sims around?
balmy condor
any 9.0.5 updated sims around?
every single one in the pins
bitter nova
ty can someone tldr if I switch from NF sub to venthyr assass?
limber falcon
I was like why would i ever press a button that cost the same energy for potentially less cp. But there is a damage difference to consider.
balmy condor
the issue is that determining whether or not the ambush (the damage), or the mut (the cp), is more important in the specific case you're in, is very very very complex
balmy condor
it's not as easy as "well in your cooldowns, press mut, and out of your cooldowns, press ambush"
so me and koji go rounds
limber falcon
Hahaha
balmy condor
trying to convince the other to either ambush, or mut
and sepsis is the last bastion
for ambush
stray canopy
wonder if maim,mangle is worth taking now with doomblade buff
balmy condor
I've gotten rid of all the other ambushes
and that damned sepsis ambush
still remains
and neither one can make a sim that proves the difference outright
so it remains there
cunning surge
I don't think so, Rocket, it's kinda doodoo compared to Lashing Scars or WPS
cunning surge
WPS still stands
stray canopy
i just love serrated
cunning needle
free procs are comfy 
limber falcon
yeah thanks for answering. Was confused looking in from the outside
cunning surge
Even with Doom Blade, a 200 WPS will beat out even a 226 Maim Mangle
cunning needle
how much more dmg
limber falcon
good rule of thumb
cunning needle
is ambush > muti?
balmy condor
roughly 2x
cunning needle
😮 thats
sorta big
but then again
probably small in the greater scheme of things
cunning surge
Right, but if you can get off a lot more Envenoms for using Mut over Ambush, it works more in the long run
sharp sky
value probably changes with duration of a fight too i'd guess
cunning surge
Yeah, exactly
cunning needle
i wonder if it's a "the more crit you have the more you'd want to muti > ambush"
dense quest
guys should i craft Zoldick on pants or feet?
balmy condor
even with sims it's actually quite difficult to see why or when mut over ambush is good
cunning needle
though if youre playing master assassin it shouldnt matter
balmy condor
guys should i craft Zoldick on pants or feet?
legs
limber falcon
it is
limber falcon
does the same but worst
balmy condor
i wonder if it's a "the more crit you have the more you'd want to muti > ambush"
actually irrelevant as far as I'm concerned. Probability wise, they're independent events, and the chance that you will crit for 1 cp on an ambush, or 2 cp on a mut, is exactly double, for all crit values
if I have 5% crit
the ratio between cp I'm getting
is the same as 55%
stoic needle
do you guys think assassination is competitive in m+ or is that still a pipe dre...
unfortunately sin needs to do a shit ton more damage than outlaw to make up for the lack of control to be considered 'competitive' imo
but just play what you like
unless you're pushing 20+s its fine
cunning needle
just play for fun™️
chrome eagle
What feels nicer to play out of the new flag vs sepsis?? Both raid and m+
cunning surge
Yeah you can do +15s as Sin with no issues
Sure it'll be less overall than Outlaw, but play what you like fam
polar crater
Is Zoldyck crafted on legs or feet? Or does it not particularly matter outside of which piece is a bigger upgrade?
balmy condor
Is Zoldyck crafted on legs or feet? Or does it not particularly matter outside o...
legs
polar crater
ty
slow marsh
ty can someone tldr if I switch from NF sub to venthyr assass?
you will be better
strange python
slow marsh
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/character/us/proudmoore/icebladesx
Felt way better overall in heroic but I'm sure i'm missing stuff. Purps and blues instead of oranges cuz everyone swapped but if anyone wants to browse whenever and tell me what I can do better that would be cool. I would like to blame ilvl/gear but I know it's not the case
low girder
that guy did get 1 banner buff actually
safe barn
and im not talking about yours just assa dps in general
low girder
but still hilarious
slow marsh
DPS was sad because we phased in 30 secs lol
Don't worry about KT that's scuffed cuz its the only fight healers get to parse
cold patio
!bis
torn cypress
why are top logs using the shiv conduit but not casting shiv ever? bugged logs?
balmy condor
why are top logs using the shiv conduit but not casting shiv ever? bugged logs?
blizzard can't make a combat log for shit
cunning surge
Yeah Logs just don't show Shiv casts
balmy condor
they fixed it though
so it will show shivs on future logs
just old ones are bugged
torn cypress
ah kk
balmy condor
you can see the casts in damage done
manic harness
is shiv any good?
torn cypress
tyty
cunning surge
It's insanely good
balmy condor
I mean
I wouldn't say it's "good"
the damage is terrible and the effect is pretty trash
but it does increase dps
and it's a core cd
so I guess it's good
balmy condor
you pool on envenom
which then naturally pools for shiv
during shiv you then stop pooling
and just fire them off
torn cypress
what abouyt if refreshes are coming up so you dont get bad refresh
aka few seconds before pandemic rupture
should i wait or envenom and try and hope to get rupture in time
obv not capping
balmy condor
refreshing a little out of pandemic is okay
balmy condor
I would try and avoid it though
cunning surge
You want to aim to cast Shiv on CD always, no matter what
So if you need to refresh a little bit early then that's fine, but I wouldn't refresh a like, 13+ second Rupture
limber falcon
I see people doing both envenom and mutilate out of vanish. Shouldnt one be always better than the other? IV says vanish->envenom, RH says vanish->mut?
balmy condor
both are fine
cunning surge
You just don't want to refresh at all in Shiv's 9 second window as a rule of thumb
limber falcon
Which do you do?
dense hamlet
both are fine
does the Ma talent count for flag crit %
balmy condor
Which do you do?
I do whatever I want to
if I don't feel like waiting with the vanish, I send it
if I have the cp, I send it
lunar otter
what stats ya runnin on doom boys
balmy condor
what stats ya runnin on doom boys
haste crit
balmy condor
does the Ma talent count for flag crit %
yes
balmy condor
Aight guess i just push it when CD says 0
just vanish during vendetta and you're chillin
dense hamlet
yes
so dosent that like give u a potential crits on flag lashes if u vanish envenom ?
balmy condor
on that one envenom, yes
dense hamlet
yeah good
tribal marlin
I usually try to vanish during Flag if possible when synced
but I don't overthink that stuff
limber falcon
Do you ever shiv at full combo points if you get crit proc or do you send the envenom and start building again before shiving to not overcap?
limber falcon
just vanish during vendetta and you're chillin
Since they both 2min cd that should always be the case 😄
limber falcon
Yeah I use it at full
Aight makes sense thanks! Was finding it hard to control
cunning surge
Of course!!
red zealot
How bad is Kyrian/Necro for Sin? Like to OS otl
cunning surge
Kyrian is doodoo for Sin because of Seal Fates
tribal marlin
Extra Envenom in Shiv Window > 1 combo point
it doesn't matter that much tbh, what's matter is shiv uptime. Delaying shiv can negativ impact on your dps, so just fire your Shiv on cooldown, regardless of combo points
cunning surge
Necro is a solid option
Well no what I mean is like
If I'm already at full CPs, I'm not gonna use Envenom then use Shiv to not waste CPs AND wait on it more
That's wasting both damage and Shiv casts for the fight
carmine minnow
Hello guys! What missives should i use for the legendary?
limber falcon
Guessing two main stats so haste crit. gonna be safer to build around. Easier to change other pieces than legendary.
carmine minnow
Aight thanks !
random lynx
with the actual venthyr build, you finish with 4cp or mutilate to 6?
rocky void
can someone suggest what i can do better to improve my mythic inerva log please? https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/X2dGBYmARv6Dtrfc/#fight=9&type=casts&source=20&view=timeline
(i know that i messed up shiv-rupture at 41st sec)
ornate lake
with the actual venthyr build, you finish with 4cp or mutilate to 6?
Max -1 basically. So no DS, 4 or 5. With DS 5 or 6.
random lynx
ty
digital orchid
Guys what u think about lego for m+ ? Assasin,zoldyk or doomblade?
primal zinc
hello ssins 
stoic needle
phial 
bis gloves pox ❎ arachnid ring ❎
my plaguefall grind is almost over...
cunning surge
Zold or MA can both work well in M+
MA has better burst overall, but Zold is entirely passive that kinda works on it's own
digital orchid
Okey ty
cunning surge
Oh yeah, Doomblade will fuck up bosses 100%
For trash packs tho it falls behind MA/Zold
stoic needle
for sure
digital orchid
For tyranical doom is better
rocky void
what is aoe rotation for assa in keys btw? let's say an avg 5-6 target pull
stoic needle
pf is basically a ST dungeon tho
eternal salmon
was there a bis list posted for sin?
stoic needle
what is aoe rotation for assa in keys btw? let's say an avg 5-6 target pull
3x garotte CT to start. mfd into rupture if you have it, otherwise fok > ruptures until you have 5-6 bleeds up total
rocky void
aight, so spread rupture on all
arctic cloud
I’m playing MA talent in PF currently this week
primal zinc
can someone suggest what i can do better to improve my mythic inerva log please?...
i would use vigor (mut has 50 energy cost) you can make energy pool and and do shiv/nom/mutx1 4cp or mut x2/vanish/nom/mut/nom....so in 9 sec of shiv you cna make 4 noms.....and you need enrgy for that not cp....my opoinion 🙂
arctic cloud
Kinda fun
stoic needle
you want to maintain ruptures and garottes as your main damage. if you get the chance to you you can envenom but it's low priority
stoic needle
yep. i realized this week that i've been building to 4 or 5 too much and that it's totally ok to rupture with 2 or 3 cp just to get them out faster
rocky void
but with doomblade still fok to build cp?
stoic needle
on 4+ targets
rocky void
or maybe mut each target?
stoic needle
only on 3
rocky void
kk
stoic needle
for 3 targets tab mut ruptures gets every target ruptured pretty quickly and does pretty damn good damage
primal zinc
btw guys
i dont know what sims are saying
but i still believe in 2-3 targets ssins are equal to laws
stoic needle
seems to be the case on altimor
primal zinc
stones too
lament mica
heroic maybe
stoic needle
some absolutely bonkers altimor logs out there right now
primal zinc
and thats DS not doomblade
stoic needle
nah man look at mythic
dense hamlet
that no1 guy
stoic needle
fuck him
cunning surge
4 PIs
3 BFs
stoic needle
lameeee
dense hamlet
that creature
cunning surge
Interesting to see a Kyrian Sin that high up there
fathom swift
cringe
stoic needle
idk i need to play around with it more, but i feel like doomblade might be viable in more dungeons than PF and TOP if you are with an organized group and they can afford to let your trash damage suffer to absolutely blast bosses
for tyrannical
reef axle
Yeh. Don’t compare yourself to the top logs lol, always boosted dps
stoic needle
sin boss damage with doomblade is absolutely off the chain right now
primal zinc
just like boomies that they are padding blood council
cunning surge
The way I see it, as long as your hitting Blue parses at LEAST, you're in a fine position
reef axle
Non Pi in m plus gets me about 12-15k burst so yeah is real nice
primal zinc
i would say 70+
tender fjord
I’ve been running Doomblade since I got it in m+ and I’m really liking it
lunar otter
no point in shiving if no conduit ye ?
red zealot
SIn feel good in keys compared to OTL
dense hamlet
no point in shiving if no conduit ye ?
what
cunning surge
No you still want to shiv, it still pulps Envenom's damage
tender fjord
But it’s also partly because I had low gloves and 226 replacement legs
primal zinc
shiv boosts poison and nature dps so deadly/instant and envenoms are boosted 🙂
tender fjord
no point in shiving if no conduit ye ?
Shiv on CD
tender fjord
sin boss damage with doomblade is absolutely off the chain right now
Did it in mists as well, it just pumps on the bosses
stoic needle
since the expansion started 
stoic needle
Did it in mists as well, it just pumps on the bosses
idk if i would do it with pugs but it seems really promising for groups
tender fjord
We could also hold cds on prides to all go on bosses
cunning surge
It definitely helps for Ingra
lunar otter
mut opener?
stoic needle
i'm gonna sit down and look at some dungeon pulls and see how many priority targets there are that you could justify running doomblade to obliterate them
sd comes to mind
spires too but people like to pull big there
buoyant mauve
just two more weeks and I'll join you all in the doomblade gang ;-;
so many weeks where I just raid logged and skipped doing torg and m+ coming back to bite me in the ass 
tender fjord
I’m just justifying it myself by a.) my ilvl with Zoldyck setup is 4 lower, b.) we can hold cds on prides before challenging bosses, c.) boss dam of the charts on tyrannical, d.) bolstering/priority management
stoic needle
never skipped a week of torghast 
stoic needle
it definitely seems to be more compelling than i gave it credit for at first
buoyant mauve
of the rogue specs
stoic needle
its like top 5 single target dps specs in the game right now
tender fjord
so many weeks where I just raid logged and skipped doing torg and m+ coming back...
I’d advise maybe just doing layer 6/7, little bit less soul ash but waaaay easier and faster
ebon bramble
its like top 5 single target dps specs in the game right now
noice
stoic needle
i dumpster boomkins and fire mages on bosses now
ebon bramble
i wish we could dumpster them in aoe too
or at least......match them XD
too much to ask.
9.1 they will buff convoke and combustion
stoic needle
lol if only
ebon bramble
50% cooldown reduced
lament mica
ass would be so busted if it could do that
isn't it kinda fine if u win hard on ST and they win hard on aoe
buoyant mauve
I’d advise maybe just doing layer 6/7, little bit less soul ash but waaaay easie...
it's oke, I've been soloing 8 for awhile now and with the addition of the new anima power where you go blind pretty much anything can dps 70k+
lament dove
the problem with comparing in m+ is that every run is different with different buffs and so on...
lament mica
thats true it could be a lot closer. but to that level is just a lot lol. it would be a good start to just remove the target cap
for melee again
ebon bramble
fire mages just bring so much more to the table.
assassin target cap isnt too bad tho...
too bad its just not enough damage compared to flamestrike/flamepatch. can we get poison bomb to be like flamepatch? 100% at 5 combo points lolol
tender fjord
i dumpster boomkins and fire mages on bosses now
I’ve been left in the dust by 13k boss fight dps boomies tho 😅😂
lament mica
ya but if they gave that buff to melee they could give ass some sort of compensation buff like a CT buff or a fok buff
stoic needle
depends on how long the boss is tho
after convoke burst is over they fall down low and we stay pretty high
stoic needle
too bad its just not enough damage compared to flamestrike/flamepatch. can we ge...
imagine if shiv made your next envenom 100% chance to proc pb
IMAGINE
ebon bramble
LOOOOOOOOL
gentle gyro
we would have reliable AoE, can't have that
stoic needle
sigh
baseline ct and shiv proccing PB we would be an actually good aoe class
imagine if we had a dev
fathom swift
how come the initial flagellation is before vendetta is used in the apl?
stoic needle
whispyr will probably correct me if i'm wrong but i think it's because it's not a huge difference either way
fathom swift
between using it before or after?
lament mica
pvp dagger is just vers crit i think
grim hornet
ok
stoic needle
between using it before or after?
yeah. but in my feelcraft it definitely seems better to use it before especially with the conduit because the first hit hits like a truck with vendetta up
ebon bramble
i wonder if this expac assassination scales a bit better
tender fjord
Voraciaous Gorger Spine from Kryxis is haste vers
fathom swift
my intuition would be 2 gcds of flag + rupture would be worth more than 2 gcds at the end but i havent spent any time simming assa this expac
ill try messing with it a bit but i could def believe it doesnt make a big difference in sims
craggy kiln
Assassination felt so damn good with the buffs 😄
ebon bramble
Assassination felt so damn good with the buffs 😄
this yup
feels amazing to play
i want to play it more for m+ lol more than outlaw
stoic needle
anyone else still find themselves refreshing snd manually by habit xD
ebon bramble
but i feel like im bringing my team down if i do
stoic needle
unless you're pushing super high keys its prob fine
ebon bramble
anyone else still find themselves refreshing snd manually by habit xD
this is why i changed my snd hotkey LOLOL
maybe................in some weird world
limber falcon
How much haste do you guys have?
craggy kiln
Our priest gave me PI when ha saw my new dmg 😄
stoic needle
we will OUTSCALE OUTlaw
be careful or whispyr is gonna come in here and bonk you kekw
ebon bramble
lol
stoic needle
i have about 20% haste
ebon bramble
why? 😛
lament dove
anyone else still find themselves refreshing snd manually by habit xD
yes...
fathom swift
whispyr any insight on reasoning for pre vendefta flag usage
balmy condor
flag does instant damage
stoic needle
if we get SS+EB back as empowered conduits or something else of that kind of power level boost in 9.1/2/3, then perhaps sin will do enough damage to make it a competitive pick with law in M+
stoic needle
but short of that or gouge being made baseline i don't see it happening
flag hits like a freight train with vendetta up though
fathom swift
yeah i mean that the apl uses flag before vendetta on the opener
balmy condor
oh
yeh flag condition is higher up
I couldn't find a gain either way
so I just recommend putting them together
balmy condor
yeh
fathom swift
ok
ebon bramble
hows m+ sin working for you?
midnight sierra
Really good it’s not insane aoe but it feels good
I did a 17 dos this week as sin
I had SnD up basically the whole dungeon
ebon bramble
prob one of the best changes lol
midnight sierra
Torn between necro and venth
ornate lake
if you raid and wanna parse, you will have easier as venthyr
midnight sierra
it just blows my mind how necro isn't better just b ecause we buff it as ass in tons of ways
plus if ur running doomblade u get a5% dmg increase to envenom ur g etting a bleed so 8 energy per tick
tender fjord
I’m necro as well, doing 16s and 17s this week
I switched to deeper strategem which feels really good together with the bone spikes
midnight sierra
yeah necro is easily the best one for m+
especially higher keys since the mobs last longer ur bleed actually goes to work
tender fjord
Get 3 garrotes out, rupt/ct, bone spike, 2cp rupt, bone spike, 3cp rupt, bone spike, 4 cp rupt
I like the low energy cost for high cp
Way too less energy to do it other wise on opener with deeper stratagem
And aoe opener has to be somewhat quick on non fortified weeks
stoic needle
yeah i'm def jealous of necro sins in m+ lol
shadow helm
why do chinese rogues have 10 pi slaves
stoic needle
there's a pay to parse culture in china
tender fjord
Only thing I’m disliking is the Shiv windows, I usually need to build 3 times for a envenom. Sometimes it’s mut mut sbs env but still wonky
shadow helm
gusty mirage
Only thing I’m disliking is the Shiv windows, I usually need to build 3 times fo...
You could build cp before pushing shiv to fit another envenom, at least that used to be the way back during the toxic blade days
shadow helm
he has vigor
midnight sierra
i like vigor tbh
gusty mirage
I got PIs on our xymox kill (:
tender fjord
I do that and pool some energy but sometimes the muts don’t crit and the following envenoms come slow and the last one a fraction of a second late
shadow helm
tender fjord
u can also start with a sbs before shiv to get the % from emeni
I use heirmir and hope that I get the %crit proc
shadow helm
you dont even need energy in m+
tender fjord
But I don’t wait for it
gusty mirage
I do that and pool some energy but sometimes the muts don’t crit and the followi...
Yeah sometimes it just rolls that way, it’s a bit frustrating but you did all that you can do ya know?
stoic needle
yeah i dont think dashing is the play in m+
the energy is wasted
doomblade just seems better
tender fjord
Yeah sometimes it just rolls that way, it’s a bit frustrating but you did all th...
Did quite some mists yesterday for the dagger (which I got on last run!) but when it happens on first boss in that burst window it stinks haha
midnight sierra
i use zoldyk in m+
safe barn
what about dashing for m+
@balmy condor
tender fjord
But agreed, luck of the draw
gusty mirage
Congrats on getting it, farming for something and finally getting it is legit the best feeling ever lol
balmy condor
<@!167090536602140682>
similar to doomblade, sucks in aoe, but decent cleave and good single target
shadow helm
ur better off just bursting tree than ingra
stoic needle
ur better off just bursting tree than ingra
no way man you hold CDs for ingra for the ultra fatty 75k envenom
gentle gyro
you mean 30k
plush ferry
I have 13% haste, and my best stat is crit lol
stoic needle
i got a 50k envenom with zoldyck last week
you could easily get 75k with doomblade
shadow helm
h0w bro
gusty mirage
Osh is a gamer boys
stoic needle
yep
gentle gyro
normal env hit for 24k
stoic needle
droman's wrath is 200% damage
vendetta is another 30%
doomblade with gar rup ct is another 20%
safe barn
is it worth it rupture the other bossses on council to get more energy?
stoic needle
pride is 30%?
quaint phoenix
it just blows my mind how necro isn't better just b ecause we buff it as ass in ...
Wait you get energy back from sbs or do you mean through vw?
stoic needle
is it worth it rupture the other bossses on council to get more energy?
just 1 rupture
quaint phoenix
You should only get energy from gar rup and internal bleeding kidney ticks
stoic needle
no
safe barn
that bleeding?
quaint phoenix
Not worth
plush ferry
yes, totally, stunes for 7 s ^^
stoic needle
kidney doesn't work on bosses lol
safe barn
i did not mean the stun ofc
stoic needle
it doesnt do dmg if it doesn't stun
pastel apex
How work sub gear with assassination spec?
safe barn
You should only get energy from gar rup and internal bleeding kidney ticks
you meant for m+?
got things mixed up
quaint phoenix
I was answering to drew
stoic needle
so on ingra maloch you can have a total of 408% bonus damage to envenom with doomblade and pride 
quaint phoenix
But sbs ticks dont count for vw right?
At leasr the tooltip doesnt say sl
So*
Read tooltip
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's:
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
rancid spade
!wa
midnight sierra
yeah and even tho u dont stack mastery it does do more dmg with it
and if u crit u get 3 combo points and it hits about 4600~
if u have a stack on already ofc
quaint phoenix
How does your huntsman dmg look like
midnight sierra
i've only done huntsman as NF
quaint phoenix
I think that should be your best fight right?
midnight sierra
im switching covs tn so i ahven't tried it yet
midnight sierra
the other thing too is it can replace toxic blade too
obviously ur not spamming it but it's a ranged ability
plush ferry
How does your huntsman dmg look like
95% overal with 217ilvl
midnight sierra
err poisoned knife
quaint phoenix
I was legit asking myself how sbs is replacing shiv lol
quaint phoenix
95% overal with 217ilvl
Whats the dps?
plush ferry
7.4k, heroic btw
crimson palm
that dude got 4 pis
that's amateur level parsing
eternal steeple
Hello, is assa good now or réal y bad atm ?
plush ferry
also it should be higher, i forgot i switched to subterfuge for this boss and fucked up a lot
lament dove
I still don't understand what changed with SBS combopoint-wise, it was the same before... 1 CP plus one for all the existing ones... what changed, why is it written in the notes...?
eternal steeple
Really *
vital haven
that's amateur level parsing
TRUE
lament mica
why are those the only 2o ptions? lol
vital haven
@crimson palm you back on rogue or still playing lock bro?
quaint phoenix
Assa more than decent now
crimson palm
still lock main but slowly switching back to rogue hopefully
vital haven
Nice nice
quaint phoenix
Should be one of the best st speccs
cunning surge
Sin is pretty tasty right now, you won't regret it
quaint phoenix
Just check logs tho
crimson palm
cant watch you get dominated by ching chongs 😄
lament mica
quaint phoenix
Dont know why ppl even ask
safe barn
i can't believe we are multispecing again
lament dove
I don't lol
lament mica
i mean u can but u dont have to
lament mica
sure but sin is fine enough unless ur literally pushing the highest keys and if ur doing that theres prob better specs than outlaw anyway
quaint phoenix
7.4k, heroic btw
I killed huntsman as well but was like 21 renown and no doomblade and still did like 7.1k, was kinda shocked lol
quaint phoenix
Same
stone herald
I am ready to jump on the hype train with 5k+ soul ash ready and a 197 dagger OH
quaint phoenix
Also 213 gs
cunning surge
Tomorrow is my raid night, can't wait to pulp the meters
stone herald
Or maybe... I wait another week to see how things smooth out
quaint phoenix
Dmg is crazy atm
midnight sierra
if ur raiding do assassination
plush ferry
yea. I also got really good logs on inevra, 97% overall with 217ilvl lol
plush ferry
if only my mage didnt pay priest for pi :v
edgy notch
world of pi
quaint phoenix
That guy is probably rich
plush ferry
saw it yesterday, kekw
quaint phoenix
Haha
tender fjord
I still don't understand what changed with SBS combopoint-wise, it was the same ...
It’s now 2cp + all existing ones
stoic needle
They really need to make a separate pi leaderboard
You shouldn't be able to pay your way to #1 parse
stoic needle
dim rampart
Hey guys, someone has a proper opener with MA + Flagellation plz ?
cunning surge
PI is fine for what it is
People basing everyone's logs having no honor without them is the problem
plush ferry
BL :V
plush ferry
good one
dim rampart
<@!293387359624626178> mutilate SnD mutilate garrote vendetta flag rup
Garrote in first with subterfuge ?
spring fractal
Finally got a 2nd dagger! Woohoo
midnight sierra
yes
dim rampart
ty
midnight sierra
u are mutilating early becasue of MA
but if ur not using it alwyas use garrote first
if ur doing subter
plush ferry
and mutilate>ambush
midnight sierra
u only ambush if it's free iirc
dim rampart
so 0 use of ambush in mm+ ?
stoic needle
Yeah
midnight sierra
correct
in m+ ur getting ur garrotes on 3 targets then trying to maintain crimson tempest/ruptures
and evenoming to allow ur poisons to spread
spring fractal
Does it matter which hand which dagger goes in?
plush ferry
main with higher ilvl
spring fractal
Ok cool thanks!
midnight sierra
fuck man i was gonna go necro but now im torn between venth and necro lo
cunning surge
They're both p close in DPS overall, Venth pulls ahead in ST tho
And yeah I agree, diversity of covenants is great
jagged bobcat
!opener
midnight sierra
which now that i have ksm im not really focusing on dungeons as much
plush ferry
you dont need to switch if you play venth from the start 
prisma monolithBOT
midnight sierra
lol i was kyrian sub at the start then went NF then switched to ass
now im trynna decide which cov now
jagged bobcat
ty
cunning surge
You can do well with Necrolord in Raid
SBS works with Zold and Doomblade which is a good plus
jagged bobcat
trying to figure out how to min/max my flagellation stacks
I usually get between 20-26
faint harness
@gray fjord the initial hit of SBS is not affected by mastery anymore btw, it was a fixed and labeled as a bug before 9.0.5 launched
midnight sierra
doesn't that say it does still get affected by mastery
just doesn't benefit from zol
faint harness
It was made before the bugfix
stoic needle
trying to figure out how to min/max my flagellation stacks
Get more crit and haste, get lust, get a haste trinket, or use it on an enemy that is about to die
jagged bobcat
Should i be hitting 30 no problem?
stoic needle
Also use flag before rupture in the opener
No, 30 is hard to hit without some kind of haste buff
26 is a pretty good number
cunning surge
26 is hella good honestly at base
Especially for Venth
Wait I misread
I thought you were talking about Haste % 
jagged bobcat
stoic needle
Damn
cunning surge
stoic needle
That's really good stats tbh
stoic needle
The crit will really help for flag
shy dust
Sim it bruh
stoic needle
If you're asking which is better, sim it
shy dust
Whichever sims higher
cunning surge
^
stoic needle
Those numbers are so close only a sim can answer
plush ferry
In sim we trust
stoic needle
I'm gonna have around 27 or 28% crit in my zoldyck set once I get these gloves upgraded
stoic needle
Tbh I wouldn't be suprised if the last 3 gear sets simmed nearly identically with the same weapons and leggo
pastel osprey
got a new dagger yesterday
https://prnt.sc/10jkkor
tender fjord
More of a fat mastery type of guy
stoic needle
More of a fat mastery type of guy
Marry me
plush ferry
my man
plush ferry
same for me 😄
wise fiber
got a new dagger yesterday <:poggers:652288776021999626>
https://prnt.sc/10jkko...
is this ST?
pastel osprey
yes
stoic needle
With the past couple upgrades I've gotten I should be around 6.7? Phial was 100 alone
pastel osprey
proof it!! 😄
cunning surge
I'm just barely at 6K
214~ ilvl
shy dust
Imagine
stoic needle
I'm in bed
shy dust
Not being part of the 7.1k club
stoic needle
Shut up rae we know you're geared
lament mica
i honestly can't
pastel osprey
haha
shy dust
stoic needle
shy dust
I got lucky
midnight sierra
how are yall simming ur chars? all buffs?
slow merlin
Guys, I'm looking on top 100 Nathria parses for each boss and its the same for all bosses more or less - 70-80% are Venthyrs, 10-28% NF and ~2% necro. I'm deciding to change covenant between necro and Venthyr. Why do you think necro parses are not there? Based on my sims necro should be top for 2+ targets, but even Huntsman and Sire are dominated by Venthyr. My only problem with Venthyr is that with outlaw it sims like 170 dps loss for dungeon slice and necro is 400+ dps gain compare to Venthyr.
stoic needle
how are yall simming ur chars? all buffs?
Ya everything
tender fjord
Guys, I'm looking on top 100 Nathria parses for each boss and its the same for a...
Because most assass people are going venthyr
wise fiber
Ya everything
Oh. bloodlust and Battle shout?
stoic needle
Ofc
lament mica
i hope ur raid has lust
stoic needle
And windfury totem
midnight sierra
@stoic needle 5 mins?
lament mica
and monk debuff
pastel osprey
and PI
stoic needle
5 min patchwerk is the standard for sims yeah
shy dust
You can turn off wind fury totem
plush ferry
and 5 man generals trinket
shy dust
If you don’t have it
stoic needle
No pi
pastel osprey
PI is life 0(
stoic needle
There's a theoretical maximum sim and a realistic sim
wise fiber
damn i was simming without it. wondering how you guys got those big numbers.
midnight sierra
yeah i just sim with flask and haste food lol
stoic needle
Not having every buff doesn't change the way you gear
So there's no reason to leave them off
Also big number = good
It's simple maths
pastel osprey
quick maths
wise fiber
5 mins or how many?
stoic needle
5 yeah
pastel osprey
5 mins or how many?
go to raidbots->quicksim and dont change anything, just sim
grim hornet
dagger with best stats is the one from tirna, isnt it?
gentle gyro
yes