assassination

[stoic needle]

I went haste vers but I wish I'd gone haste crit

[grand echo]

i also have haste/vers doomblade

dont think it matters that much, haste vers always good for sin

i personally like to play pvp with all kinds of leggos too so versa never bad 2nd stat

[stoic needle]

Yea it really doesn't matter that much

I'm recrafting it crit mastery on shoulders for the meme build

[opaque sparrow]

thanks @stoic needle and @grand echo 🙂

[pliant apex]

is there an addon that can make focus macros for me? for example on huntsman fight?

[grand echo]

i was gonna upgrade my 225 doomblade to 235 but i might still hold my ash since not sure what other leggos gonna be good now

[stoic needle]

The pins say all

But doomblade will be bis for pure st

[grand echo]

yeah but i play all 3 specs so lots of leggos and changes

[stoic needle]

Doubt much is changing for outlaw or sub

[grand echo]

if i go venthyr i might wanna test Invigorating shadowdust with dreadblades and flag cd redu as outlaw

[split veldt]

yup

[pliant apex]

just saw pins, if i do raids , random bgs and one or two keys each week, and have zoldyck right now, and only want to craft one more lego, should it just be MA now then?

[split veldt]

im not actually stuck, just bad luck

[pliant apex]

already have zoldyck

think i should just make MA then, acc to pins

[grand echo]

well MA is pretty must have imo but you also want doomblade if u assa i think...

[pliant apex]

unless doomblade over zoldyck in nathria will make significant dps difference?

ahh, so if i primarily raid, i should def make doomblade

and eventually crawl my way to MA

[orchid hollow]

considering rerolling sin, whats first leggo i should craft

[grand echo]

doomblade getting strong now

[pliant apex]

so doomblade will be much more than zoldyck? in raids?

[stoic needle]

It'll be significant for single target fights. You can use doomblade in pvp too so I would go with that

Check the pins

[pliant apex]

i did bud

so if i have 4000 ash right now, just make 235 doomblade?

[stoic needle]

Are you going to still play outlaw for aoe fights and keys? Doomblade. If you want to play only sin then do zoldyck

[grand echo]

i dont think the difference will be that insane but yeah if you main raids i think you wanna go doomblade

[orchid hollow]

yeah only planning on st

[stoic needle]

I mean +300 dps is pretty big

[pliant apex]

same, only ST

300??

wtf

thats massive

[stoic needle]

Yeah man doomblade is pumping

[pliant apex]

right now? or soon?

[stoic needle]

On Tuesday

[orchid hollow]

with patch i assume

[grand echo]

okay 300 is kinda big difference

[pliant apex]

nicceee, heheh thatll push me to no 1 in my guild from 3 hehehe

im like 100-150 dps below top 2

[stoic needle]

You will get that much dps extra even without doomblade

From cttc

[pliant apex]

ctcc? whats that

[gentle gyro]

aight bois it is time, let's change covenants. let's throw away a bunch of lvl 45+ followers..

cut to the chase

[stoic needle]

Cut to the chase

[pliant apex]

umm whats cut to the chase?\

[orchid hollow]

they're bringing it back to like icc sin where envenom gives you more snd and thats when i cut my teeth rogue so im excited its back

envenom gives you 3 sec of snd per combo point spent

[grand echo]

@gentle gyro yeah i too have been leveling my followers like crazy..

[stoic needle]

A 5cp envenom will add 15s to the duration of Snd

[orchid hollow]

you have to cast snd once at start of fight but never hit the button again

[pliant apex]

so rotation will change? no need to press s and d ?

[grand echo]

pretty sure im gonna lose all motivation with followers after swap

but fuck 'em then.

[pliant apex]

WOW so nice and convinient

[balmy condor]

Lash + duelist

[orchid hollow]

yeah. Exactly how it was in icc

[stoic needle]

Mission table is free gold and anima and augment runes

[orchid hollow]

im almost certainly not rerolling unless NF falls very far behind

i dont mind being not 100% optimized

[pliant apex]

yea well i already switched from venthyr, not going to keep changing covs fuck that

[prisma carbon]

you guys think zoldyck will still be better for sire prog ?
trying to decide on which sin lego to craft

[pliant apex]

same,.

[stoic needle]

Dude venthyr is so good now

[orchid hollow]

i would guess, yes zoldyck for sire

[gentle gyro]

HOLY SHIT HOW OFTEN DO I NEED TO CONFIRM THIS

[pliant apex]

dude idk.. will i start at zero reknown again ?

[balmy condor]

Because it’s better, and no. You can play theotar instead, seems to better for aoe if you really want that

[stoic needle]

No you keep all your renown and hall upgrades

[grand echo]

tomorrow is SLG mythic progress day I have to switch covenants after that.. I dont think my guild appreciates if I come with renown 0 😆

[pliant apex]

what?? from when i was with them? NICEEE then i can re roll venthyr

all these changes go into effect from tuesday

?

[grand echo]

tuesday for NA

[gentle gyro]

nono if you swap you lose your current level

[pliant apex]

ohh ohosi said you dont

[gentle gyro]

but if you ever swap back you re-gain your former status

[grand echo]

yeah if you swap to new you are 0

[pliant apex]

no i was 23 with them, then i swtiched

to nf

[orchid hollow]

i think ill have enough time to craft and max doombnlade and then craft and max zoldyx

[pliant apex]

if i go back, 23 again ?

[grand echo]

yea

[pliant apex]

ye fo sure then, 23 start isnt bad at all

[pliant apex]

venthyr is really a big upgrade eh? worth switching?

[gentle gyro]

depends on how you define big

[pliant apex]

one question, i have like 9k anima with nf, what do i do with it? can i transfer it to venth?

[neat frost]

Remember if you are returning to an previous covenant it's a different process than what you experienced with your first switch

[pliant apex]

is it hard pickle?

[grand echo]

Yeah NF is still good and sepsis works great with sin.

[neat frost]

The anima stays behind

[gentle gyro]

buy stuff that csosts anima, swap covenants, sell it back

[thick lodge]

buy items from vendor then refund them in a hour and you will get ur anima

refund them at the new vendor

i did it last night

[neat frost]

I swapped from Venthyr to Kyrian, and about to embark on the journey back to Venthyr.

[pliant apex]

ohh you mean like mounts?

[neat frost]

I think returning is a two week process

[thick lodge]

eh id do armor

or whatever

[chilly merlin]

thinking of making a sin rogue alt, so just to clarify after the patch the execute legendary is still the best general use one right?

[pliant apex]

why? is armor better?

[thick lodge]

i havnt done mounts

[chilly merlin]

and doomblade is bis for pure st?

[pliant apex]

is venthyr a big dps increase? in ST

[balmy condor]

MA is good too, but yeah

[balmy condor]

Pins my dude

[neat frost]

So I am likely to start the swap back (you won't immediately lose current covenant) fill the first bar before Tuesday, then fill the second bar after the weekly reset

[pliant apex]

sorry

[gentle gyro]

holy hell i just jumped off a cliff and wanted to stop the fall with soulshape

but uh yeah

[pliant apex]

yea thats not that bad since week almost about to end right?

[neat frost]

It's significant, but I am just glad to return to the bitey bois where I wanted to be in the first place. But my inability to reactivate flagellation like 25% of the time nearly cost me a keyboard from the rage, lol

[pliant apex]

i use WA for it

nice ppl here lead me to it

[hard pivot]

Same I wanted to roll venthyr from day one but live flag is so fucking awful to use

I’ve lost multiple 25+ stacks because I forgot to hit the button again lmao

[wise fiber]

Quick question. where do we get lashing scars conduit?

[hard pivot]

Callings, world boss, ve’nari

[balmy condor]

There is not

[hard pivot]

Rip

[balmy condor]

It’s callings world boss and venari only

On Tuesday it’s added to sire

[hard pivot]

Figures it ends up on sire

[wise fiber]

venari is only upgrades isnt it?

[balmy condor]

Yes

[hard pivot]

Yeah but you get a 145 right at the beginning

[balmy condor]

^

[worn ruin]

Necro assa sucks? or has better than others?

[balmy condor]

I would never buy conduits tho

[hard pivot]

And you’ll probably get a 200 one from a calling pretty quickly

[balmy condor]

Pins

[wise fiber]

oh yeah you right

[pliant apex]

how significant numbers wise? like 100 dps more than sepsis ?

[pulsar sluice]

what level reownon u need for DD

[balmy condor]

30

[gentle gyro]

https://i.imgur.com/7UPlTjI.png
uhm. quest is nowhere to be found

[pulsar sluice]

thats not bad i guess

hmm i might change tonight

[balmy condor]

Have you done the world quests and other random quests

[hard pivot]

Isn’t that the first calling they make you do?

[slender trail]

it's a calling so make sure to check the floors above and below. map doesn't always show them.

[balmy condor]

I was stuck on a quest and then there were like side quests and shit, still stuck, did a calling, relogged and it was there

[pliant apex]

@balmy condor how much dps is flag over sepsis from tuesday ? like 100 or more?

[balmy condor]

Just the ability? No idea

[pliant apex]

but the cov i mean, the switch

how much dps increase over nf? any clue?

[balmy condor]

P I N S

[pliant apex]

i did see them, it doesnt state number

[balmy condor]

[pliant apex]

or does it sorry i only read first pin

dont have to mean about it

[grand echo]

well he literally told you multiple times to check pinS

x)

[balmy condor]

Yeah there’s more than 1 pin

You should look at them all

[gentle gyro]

whispyr how do you bear this torment daily

[solar flicker]

forreal bro

[pliant apex]

dont have to insult ppl is all im saying

[pulsar sluice]

Just check the pins bro

[pliant apex]

yea

[bright turret]

need a pin to explain to read the pins imo

[pulsar sluice]

It's okay to ask here and then be told to check the pins

Totally normal

[limber lion]

They literally added the huge "read the pins" with emotes on the class-channel section

[icy haven]

is there a way to track the rupture count on aoe? like how many ruptures you have up, im just realizing im a bit shit at keeeping them up

[limber lion]

Yes, there's weakauras for that

[icy haven]

cant find any tho

[strange python]

I still can't decide. Both necro and vamps have pros and cons. Even looked in the PvP ch. Hard choice I feel. Even NF are good

[limber lion]

Look harder, I found 3 in a minute when this question last came up

[grand echo]

SBS seems like too much work over flag

more clicking

[icy haven]

okay, im just dumb then, ty 😄

[pliant apex]

rotation for flag is mut-slice-flag-mut right? on opener i mean?

[grand echo]

im lazy ass

[balmy condor]

Yeah that’s fine

[silent tinsel]

I laughed at one of the pin dashes needing to clarify sin was not beating outlaw in cleave

[pliant apex]

ty whisp

[worldly echo]

All the moderators are amazing here, but whispyr has patience unheard of in a mortal man!

[strange python]

Agreed.

[worldly echo]

I would go nuts with all the same questions and all the explaining you do whispyr. Thanks again bud :-).

[balmy condor]

No problem hash brown homeski

[pliant apex]

whisp once made diagrams to explain a mechanic i was failing, he a good teacher

[strange python]

I think I'm going to base my decision on the mount. All are ass except vamps I guess.

[gentle gyro]

ahhhh why is blizz so incompetent

[pliant apex]

no they also suck

[gentle gyro]

swapped covenants and now it's stuck

yaaaay

[pliant apex]

but venth pet is nice.

[strange python]

Flying mount?

[gentle gyro]

and according to my google and reddit search the only way to solve it is a ticket

[woven bane]

do you take haste/vers on doomblade leggo?

[gentle gyro]

i blame @stoic needle

[vestal wren]

the venthyr mount is def. the best, but the covenant is also rly good in 9.0.5

so lets become a twilight vampire

[tight ravine]

i did haste crit on doomblade 😦

it simmed higher

[stoic needle]

Haste vers or haste crit literally doesn't matter

Don't worry about it

[stoic needle]

Wot

[tight ravine]

yesss

[neat frost]

Is there a situation where you wouldn't immediately use your blindside proc, and instead mutilate?
e.g. Do folks just use a macro the casts Ambush if available (if blindside is procc'd, not saying if stealthed), else cast Mutilate?

[tight ravine]

i just have both bound

[prisma carbon]

is venthyr the safest option if you plan on playing sin/outlaw depending on fight design? necro seems much better for outlaw only

[stoic needle]

Necro is good for sin too

[tight ravine]

necro seems best for sin outlaw

[stoic needle]

They're both good

[strange python]

@vestal wren wargen not gonna like the twilight vamps

[stoic needle]

Don't think about it as 'what is best for sin and outlaw' think about it as 'do I want to specialize in aoe or single target damage'

[limber lion]

Or play Venthyr and do big dick st damage and still great aoe damage

[balmy condor]

No, because mutilating with a blindside proc is a potential loss for another proc.

[limber lion]

:')

[balmy condor]

!bs

[prisma monolith]

Macroing Ambush to Mutilate only works with the use of a addon.
It comes with the downside that it often requires multiple key presss.
Suggested addon to use(Gnome Sequencer):http://tiny.cc/mxb6tz
Showcase Video: #assassination message

[limber lion]

"... multiple key presss"

[tight ravine]

also

[neat frost]

Thank you! Precisely what I was looking for. I'll see if its something that looks beneficial, or if it could still be a nuisance.

[stoic needle]

It's a nuisance

[tight ravine]

potency conduits dropping from castle -> are they like boes? off bosses? do bosses drop specific conduits?

[balmy condor]

I’ll tell you right now that you shouldn’t do it

[strange python]

Not that hard to just have ambush on a separate key bind.

[stoic needle]

Just bind them separate

[limber lion]

You don't want to use Ambush from stealth ot after procing Sepsis

[balmy condor]

Just like endurance, off of certain bosses

[neat frost]

Yeah was thinking I just make Ambush like a Shift + Key, for whatever my mutilate bind is

[humble socket]

Certain bosses, Sire drops the covenant conduits, there is 1 per spec off other bosses

[stoic needle]

Hot take: ambush from sepsis is okay when you need to do more burst damage

[humble socket]

Do we know how recuperator works with CTTC?

[balmy condor]

Cttc gives slice, recup makes slice heal

[humble socket]

Okay so any finisher will refresh recup then?

[balmy condor]

Envenom adds time to slice

[limber lion]

This question has come up a few times already. They do not affect one another in any way.

[balmy condor]

Recup makes slice heal

[stoic needle]

Recup heal is not based on slice and dice duration it's just a flat hp/s while slice is active

[balmy condor]

You’re overthinking it

[humble socket]

oh ok

[limber lion]

You have slice = you heal

[stoic needle]

I still can't get over how jank Niya herbs is

[humble socket]

For some reason the way its worded i thought when you cast SnD you get a 36 second heal

[balmy condor]

Recup heals every 2 seconds while you have slice up

[humble socket]

They should change the wording to that then, "While Slice and Dice is active you heal X% every 2 seconds"

[balmy condor]

Welcome to another episode of warcraft tooltips are actually really fucking trash

[stoic needle]

They are unbelievably shit

The shadow techniques tooltip

[balmy condor]

It gets the point across for the average player

But there is 0 nuance in tooltips

[royal lantern]

ye like, recup is the most shity conduit cus of it lel

like, it reads as if you just heal a specific amount, and when you go SLIGHTLY deeper into the class you will notice that it cant work that way

simply cus GM exsist for outlaw

[blazing arrow]

@balmy condor what is the doomblade bug

Ive been meaning to ask

[balmy condor]

Non-existent

There’s some quirks with it still

Like it doubles from sinful

Since it buffs mutilate, which buffs the bleed, and then the bleed gets buffed

[latent field]

Is nightly simc version a 9.0.5 sim or still 9.0?

[balmy condor]

But there’s nothing inherently bugged about it anymore, they fixed the armor stuff

[balmy condor]

Nightly has had 9.0.5 stuff for a while, but you can only sim it with ptr=1 in an advanced sim

[stoic needle]

📈

[blazing arrow]

yeah I dunno i'm debating on what im going to craft next weke

[limber lion]

Is this accounted for in the sims?

[balmy condor]

Yes

[latent field]

ok ty

[limber lion]

:'(

[balmy condor]

At least I think so

@fleet anchor would know better

[humble socket]

How come we dont SBS from stealth as necro after tuesday but wait for the global after Vendetta? would the crit with master assassin and getting the bleed up to buff mut for doomblade be better?

[fleet anchor]

Yes it has for at least 3-4 days

[balmy condor]

MA muts give cp

[balmy condor]

Thanks :D

[humble socket]

Its 3 CP vs 4CP, which just goes into SND

which will get refreshed you you rupture anyway

[balmy condor]

3cp vs 4cp you say

I believe I’ve heard this before

[stoic needle]

Sounds like a gain

[balmy condor]

???? Cttc is on envenoms

[humble socket]

Only? i thought it was any finisher refresshes SND

[balmy condor]

No

[dense hamlet]

[humble socket]

And a 3 CP SND would run out before your first Envenom?

[stoic needle]

You sure about that?

[balmy condor]

It would not afaik

[fathom wind]

yes

[humble socket]

So then why Mut instead of getting SBS up as necro

[stoic needle]

Because it gives more CP

[balmy condor]

Because it’s not a gain from what I’ve seen

[stoic needle]

It's the same as ambushing from stealth

[balmy condor]

Opener logic in general never really shows that much gain

It’s pretty difficult to change 1-2 gcd’s in the opener and expect an actual gain across an entire fight

But I tried putting ambush back, still sucked, sbs from stealth, that was bad too, I tried garrote from stealth for 1 cp slice, that was actually awful

[stoic needle]

1cp slice dreams shattered

Why is that a loss idgi

[balmy condor]

(With ma obviously)

But yeah

I couldn’t see any changes in opener

It’s all the same

[stoic needle]

Spending less cp on slice and spending that on rup or env instead seems like it should be a gain

[balmy condor]

(Which is what I put in the pin)

[humble socket]

Right i saw the pin, i just wanted an explanation

[balmy condor]

The explanation is that it’s 1 gcd and probably has 0 impact over the course of a fight

[humble socket]

in my head spending less on SnD that gets refreshed by Envenom and getting a bigger SBS crit with MA up and getting the bleed started earlier, seemed liek a gain to me, but then at least openers would be the same across the board

[hollow escarp]

can you add a comma after No?

in the pinned message

[balmy condor]

No

[hollow escarp]

[balmy condor]

Sure, I’m just saying that it’s within margin of error, and margin of error means that it’s not a gain

[jagged bobcat]

Whats better, 226 Lethal Poisons? or 213 Well-Place Steel

[hollow escarp]

sim?

[balmy condor]

Sim yo self

[hollow escarp]

it might be a 20 dps difference

[humble socket]

Yeah but Margin of Error means My PaRSeS

😛

[balmy condor]

No

[hollow escarp]

I played keys as outlaw with lethal poisons and it was fine

[balmy condor]

Margin of error means that the simulation can’t tell which is better

Which means that’s they’re identical

[balmy condor]

20 seems high

I’m guessing closer to 10

[stoic needle]

https://tenor.com/view/sim-simyoself-gif-20048910

[humble socket]

Ah, okay thanks for the explanation. I think i might just keep it as the Night Fae opener then even i went necro now, if the difference is that small, retraining my muscle memory for not a real gain seems not worth it

[stoic needle]

Bruh

[hollow escarp]

shh

my first outlaw key this season was with Finality

[humble socket]

This is probably a pointless and dumb question but does Finality work on Rupture for Assassin?

[balmy condor]

Yes

[humble socket]

Hmm interesting, i always thought the spec legendaries were spec locked

[hollow escarp]

neah, people used tank legendaries as dps in AWC

[balmy condor]

Cto works on sin as well

[humble socket]

Weird.

[stoic needle]

Deathly shadows is basically a spec neutral legendary

I kinda wanna try deathly in keys for sin

[hollow escarp]

it's usually not optimal to play them

[stoic needle]

Deathly NS CT from vanish

[humble socket]

Well i remember Deathly was classified as a Sub legendary, then they hotfixed it to be a Rogue legendary after a week or two

[sullen sail]

I seen comments that outlaw is still the dominant spec in M+. Do you think with our recent buffs we will be competitive with the top dps or more of an average dps

[stoic needle]

We're upper middle

But even outlaw doesn't really keep up with boomkin, fire mage etc

[fleet whale]

in pure ST were prolly high tier when the patch hits tbh

like pure pure ST

[hollow escarp]

hold my beer

[humble socket]

How does Judgement compare if you have a tank running it too

[stoic needle]

No clue

I'd never run that tbh

Not unless like every dps did

[balmy condor]

How does what compare

[humble socket]

Judgement of the Arbiter, the beam between you and an ally leggo

[stoic needle]

Judgement of the arbiter

[balmy condor]

Oh

Lmao that thing is fucking awful

Actually just a waste of ash

[sullen sail]

What does ST stand for

[stoic needle]

It used to be arms best legendary

[balmy condor]

Single target

[humble socket]

For some reason i think Arms used t

yeah

[stoic needle]

Imagine

[hollow escarp]

I've heard some warriors wanted to craft it in early SL

just because some sim issues

[humble socket]

And they got a lot of value from a tank using it too

[stoic needle]

That's because all of their legendaries were so shit that it was bis

[hollow escarp]

ohh, so the same as BM

[humble socket]

class*

[astral tiger]

So I've been doing my shit as kyrian outlaw, but I wanna go sin for the lols (it's just an alt), is it worth going venthyr? like obvs I'm not doing high content on this (at least for this tier) but don't I have to start at renown 1?

[viral kite]

is sin any good in any type of m+ environment?

[stoic needle]

@balmy condor thoughts?

[fleet whale]

you start at renown 1 but it doesn't take that long to catch up

[hollow escarp]

you can easily do +17 keys

[stoic needle]

Good enough to do high keys but worse than outlaw overall

[fleet whale]

also since i started venth at launch, and swapped to NF

if i switch back to Venth, am i gated?

[humble socket]

you will go back to where you were

[fleet whale]

don't i have to like do some shit though to rejoin them?

[humble socket]

Yeah

[astral tiger]

Is there a best way to farm renown?

[viral kite]

a suppose a better question was is it ever better in any type of situation in m+ than outlaw

[stoic needle]

You have to do 2 quests

[humble socket]

If you start now you can go back on tuesday

You do one quest this week

[stoic needle]

For single target damage to bosses, that's about it

[viral kite]

like maybe a certain tyr week

[fleet whale]

what are the two quests

[humble socket]

one quest after reset

Just fill a bar

by doing shit in their zone

[stoic needle]

Theater of pain probably sin > outlaw

Maybe SD

[fleet whale]

so i just run around collecting treasures and shit?

[humble socket]

So run SD and HoA and do WQ and kill rares in revendreth

[hollow escarp]

sin is so annoying in SD

[stoic needle]

?

[hollow escarp]

zoldyck is useless last boss

can't re stealth gauntlet

[stoic needle]

Run doomblade

[fleet whale]

yeah doomblade isn't even that far behind in D slice lol

[hollow escarp]

I crafted MA to have fun in Necrotic Wake

[stoic needle]

I will run doomblade in top for sure

[hollow escarp]

100k dps on trash

[humble socket]

Didnt that get nerfed in 9.0.5

[limber lion]

Get that +25 key done before they nerf it

[stoic needle]

9.0.5 ain't out yet

[hollow escarp]

my best is +17 HoA and Mists

[limber lion]

Yes, coming tuesday/wednesday

[stoic needle]

Gonna get that 15 timed before then

[hollow escarp]

my KSM was on Necrotic Wake

[fleet whale]

lol "rimed"

[hollow escarp]

also got the dungeon mount

[humble socket]

MA only buffs rogue abilities, bot even like Dreadfire too right

[fleet whale]

that's one way to do keys i guess

[humble socket]

AFter tuesday

[ornate herald]

am i making doom or zoldyk for sire 🤔

eta on actual patch??

[stoic needle]

Zoldyck

[hollow escarp]

I'm not even gonna try pushing before I get bis valor gear

[stoic needle]

Have fun pushing in 9.4

Do you know the valor upgrade rates?

[hollow escarp]

well, I only need phial

a belt and a chest piece

[humble socket]

Im gonna craft a Crit/Vers Zoldyk, then a Crit/Haste Doomblade

[regal crater]

Hi guys! Im new on spec. Actually started with outlaw. For assassination wich legendary is the best?

[stoic needle]

It takes at least 4 weeks of valor grinding to upgrade one piece

[hollow escarp]

do we have numbers?

[humble socket]

I thought blizz said an upgrade will bring it to the highest possible ilvel you can go

based on your achieve

[hollow escarp]

neah, it has ranks on PTR

I hope the achievements are account wide though

so I can upgrade alts easily

[gleaming reef]

If my reverberation is ilevel 200 does that mean when i switch to venthyr the flag conduit will also be ilevel 200?

[hollow escarp]

it's a different conduit

you will get 145 from quest

[gleaming reef]

so i just lose it? Cause i had the old conduit when i was venthyr previously but i dont see it anymore

[hollow escarp]

no, it's still there

in the Kyrian soulbind

wait

did you had it 200?

[dense hamlet]

yeah i think you lose the covenant conduit

[reef orchid]

do yall think there's a single dungeon where ass is gonna be better than outlaw? like theater of pain cus it has a lot of single target

[gleaming reef]

na it was like 184 before i switched

also sad that i lose it and regrind it qq

[hollow escarp]

hmm

[limber lion]

Just do callings and you'll have it insta

[hollow escarp]

I would report as bug

[limber lion]

Or kill Sire on patch-day

[gleaming reef]

true Ill prob do that tehn

cause thats even higher ilevel anyways

[dense hamlet]

are they adding conduits to raid again

[limber lion]

Potency conduits, yes

[dense hamlet]

cuz i heard someone was saying abt lady inerva droping cto

can i get a list or smthing to see

[stoic needle]

Top is def possible but that's about it

[limber lion]

Open adventure guide on reset day and you'll see em.

[plain thistle]

conduits should drop from everything tbh, sometimes I check pvp players conduits and they are almost all green (if they only do pvp)

[limber lion]

Or you can download PTR and go there and take a look there if you fancy that better.

[dense hamlet]

is there no list on like wowhead or smthin

[stoic needle]

No

[dense hamlet]

what a useless site

[humble socket]

Zoldyk on legs?

[dense hamlet]

yes

[split veldt]

do yall use katar for M+

[stoic needle]

No

Katar bad

[wet ruin]

@balmy condor do we have an updated PI usage with new venthyr, wondering if its gonna be any better now

[split veldt]

WPS still?

[limber lion]

There's literally pins for that.

I thought that regulars knew to look at pins first before asking questions.

[split veldt]

i wish there was a pin for your mom

[strange python]

Oh damn

Roasted

[dense hamlet]

[strange python]

Moment of silence please

[icy haven]

F

[split veldt]

but yeah the pin is for 9.05

i was wondering about now

[pastel seal]

Got 200 flag instantly from world boss

[limber lion]

It's not a 100% chance though.

[pastel seal]

It 100% dropped for me though, so I'm happy 😎

[dense hamlet]

its like 0.00001chance

maybe lower

[split veldt]

got mine from epic calling

[limber lion]

I got two 200 Lashing Scars from callings.

[split veldt]

also 100% drop rate for me

[strange python]

Hows assassination looking in comparison to other specs in .5? Or has there not been enough to make a decision yet

[stoic needle]

.000000000000000000169%

[pastel seal]

Best ST

[proper halo]

is it worth switching from nightfaye outlaw to venth assassin

[slender urchin]

Is there some place that has sims for all dps in 905? I keep hearing people reference Sin is one of the higher simming in the patch

[limber lion]

Define worth.

[proper halo]

higher dps for raid

[manic harness]

for single target? yes

[dense hamlet]

for raiding yes for mplus you might chose

[manic harness]

for cleave fights? not so much

[limber lion]

For rogue, yes. Each of the spec channels have pins for the sims. For other classes? No.

[silent tinsel]

It's like 300 more dps isn't it

[stoic needle]

There was a preliminary sim I did a while back that showed us stacking up well

[dense hamlet]

that ALOT

[strange python]

So back to the way its always been for sin

[stoic needle]

I will have to do it again though since the new changes

[silent tinsel]

Yeah, that's the lead assa has I heard

[dense hamlet]

almost yeah

[strange python]

Well minus the poison bomb broken bs from legion

[dense hamlet]

assa was very good in mplus aswell so we might get some more aura buffs and "scale"

[limber lion]

I doubt we're getting more buffs for a while.

[slender urchin]

Thanks, I kept hearing people say we were simming like top 3 for melee

[dense hamlet]

pog

[limber lion]

Yes, Assa is a contender for #1 ST melee spec next to Feral

[dense hamlet]

we scale with aura buffs tbh

[shy dust]

Sin is simming very high among melee

[slender urchin]

Awesome

That’s the way it should be if they’re not gonna give us raid utility

[stoic needle]

It's not high enough to make up for the lack of utility tbh

[limber lion]

Melees should just flat out have more damage than ranged.

[manic harness]

but at least we aren't dead in the water anymore

[stoic needle]

But at least we aren't inting anymore

[manic harness]

yeah

[slender urchin]

This tbh ^

[gleaming reef]

does sire 100% chance drop?

[humble socket]

no

[celest sundial]

have you guys already switched to venthyr or is there a reason to wait and see?

[silent tinsel]

What is the best source of repeatable renown?

[shy dust]

How can you say this

Based on what

[silent tinsel]

The fact that unholy dk still exists

[latent field]

Do we open from stealth (w/ MA) with mut instead of ambush bc of combo points?

[shy dust]

Unholy exists?

[stoic needle]

It's just my opinion, I could be wrong. Feral does more dps but still isn't brought

[shy dust]

Of course it does

[limber lion]

Yes, already swapped. You can wait until Monday and still catch up on Renown on reset day.

[shy dust]

Is feral not brought

Because of a lack of raid utility

[stoic needle]

We do like 1000 more sim dps than unh now

[shy dust]

Or because moonkin is just as strong if not stronger

While also being a damage spec from the same class

Feral is a terrible example

[celest sundial]

Alright thanks, I think Ill just swap now and start farming renown, have boost raid tomorrow so can probably get some renowns from that

[shy dust]

Why would when they are both similar damage would you take a melee feral instead of a ranged moonkin

[gentle sable]

Have they fixed the ptr sbs + exsanguinate synergy?

[cyan echo]

is zoldyck still better for mythic raiding with the new doomblade?

[stoic needle]

That doesn't really matter. A melee spot is a melee spot, a ranged spot is a ranged spot in a comp

Doesn't matter what class it is

[shy dust]

Yes it does

[stoic needle]

You can bring boomkins and ferals

[shy dust]

If you have a Druid actively choosing to play the melee option

[stoic needle]

If you want the highest dps melee

[limber lion]

Yep. Clearing HC/Normal/LFR will get you close to 25 renown. Just fill in the rest with the covenant campaign and you're done.

[stoic needle]

Why not bring feral

[celest sundial]

Pog

[shy dust]

You’d want whats best for your raid team

Which is a moonkin

[stoic needle]

But eventually you run out of ranged slots

And need melee

[strange python]

Is there any type of increase in renown drop % for higher keys? Debating when to swap

[shy dust]

Where

[stoic needle]

Whybnot bring feral if they do the highest dps

[shy dust]

Do you run out of ranged spots really

[limber lion]

Yes but it's generally not worth running very high keys just to farm renown. It's easier to do many low level keys

Renown is THE EASIEST to get from clearing the raid on heroic/normal/lfr

You will have max renown in ONE day.

[strange python]

Is it a high drop rate in comparison in the raid?

[silent tinsel]

Do you get renown if loot locked?

Can I spam lfr?

[limber lion]

Raid drops renown very frequently. M+ certainly has a lot lower rate of drop.

[limber lion]

No, it works similar to loot locking.

[shy dust]

People complaining about raid utility when it generally doesn’t matter as much for most players zzz

[stoic needle]

Idk sludgefist?

[limber lion]

If you are loot locked, you cannot get renown.

[lament mica]

feral is better st than boomy

[strange python]

Right on thanks bud

[cyan echo]

is zolydck still the prefered raiding legendary with the new doomblade?

[stoic needle]

You use both

[limber lion]

No, only for Sire currently.

[cyan echo]

kk ty guys

slg/sludge is doom?

[stoic needle]

I mean look I hope sin blasting on ST alone is enough to get it a raid spot

Slg is outlaw

[limber lion]

You can sim them, Doom should pull ahead.

[shy dust]

Rogue had a spot for most people this tier

[limber lion]

I doubt he's talking about mythic

[forest nacelle]

how does SIN AoE? i can't figure it out 😦

[shy dust]

That weren’t playing at the highest of levels

[stoic needle]

Tab target rupture garotte

[limber lion]

Apply 3 subterfuge garrotes, apply ct, apply 2 ruptures

[cyan echo]

i am talking about mythic

[forest nacelle]

and just prio target?

[limber lion]

keep 4 bleeds (rup/gar) up, keep ct up

[forest nacelle]

after?

ok

[limber lion]

Nah just keep adding bleeds to everything

[forest nacelle]

i can dop that

do

[balmy condor]

Tempest, subterfuge garrotes, rupture everything that lives long enough

[limber lion]

If they die before the bleed runs out, don't apply another bleed

[stoic needle]

Bleed it until it's dead

[silent tinsel]

M+ strat, outlaw: activate spec

[limber lion]

I hate people who keep suggesting to switch to outlaw

[unkempt ginkgo]

Is doom the move for every boss not sire? Or is there a place for zold on other bosses still

[vestal wharf]

Its so much better in every conceivable way in m+, so yeah.

[limber lion]

If we cared about dps, we wouldn't be playing rogue to start with.

[vestal wharf]

Only exception is tyrannical hard bosses.

[stoic needle]

Meh it ain't that much

[limber lion]

It's a few hundred dps overall. It's not night and day like people make it out to be.

[shy dust]

You can care about dps

Within the confine of your own class

Switching specs is completely different to switching classes fwiw

[lament mica]

new leggo and a lot to learn/ rebind

[limber lion]

Yeah, but the question was "how do I aoe as Assassination?" and not "how do I do more damage as a rogue?"

[silent tinsel]

Gotta petition for gouge back for me to consider sin in m+

[stoic needle]

Subterfuge garotte and iron wire would like a word

[shy dust]

That does not

Compare to gouge

[stoic needle]

Yes it does

Have you even played sin in m+ rae?

[shy dust]

You do know

[stoic needle]

I didn't say it's better

[shy dust]

The sin m+ toolkit

Is the same as in bfa

Gouge is just an insanely nuts ability for m+

Iron wire is strong

But gouge is actually insane for m+

[limber lion]

Why?

[stoic needle]

Yes I know that and I'm not disputing that

[shy dust]

A psuedo interrupt

On a 10 second cooldown

[stoic needle]

But garotte silence does the same job in the situations you need it

[shy dust]

It does it from stealth

[stoic needle]

And kidney

[shy dust]

Or requiring a vanish

[stoic needle]

And with sepsis

[shy dust]

So a 2 min cd, entering from stealth or 1.5

Versus a 10 second cooldown

Surely you see how this isn’t a debate

[limber lion]

It's even weird how you're comparing 2 completely different things honestly.

[stoic needle]

Having played both outlaw and sin in m+ I haven't found situations where I've missed kicks that I couldn't cover with garotte

Where gouge would've saved me

[shy dust]

Then you seemingly have forgotten

[limber lion]

I gotta say that I have. We had a wipe on +20 Spires because we didn't have any kicks left for a Goliath.

[shy dust]

Or didn’t play anything of bfa

[stoic needle]

I didn't play BFA

[shy dust]

Gouge is an nuts ability

Then it’s fine you don’t understand

Gouge is actually nuts for m+

[stoic needle]

That's really a group comp issue, you can't be the only source of kicks in a key

[shy dust]

Iron wire is nice but gouge is in a different tier

[limber lion]

No, I wasn't. We had 4 interrupts. But we also pulled 7 mobs which we needed 3 interrupts/cc for.

[simple wadi]

I think the thing that makes gouge special is the talent that makes it free

[shy dust]

Gouge itself is just amazing for m+ you didn’t need the talent

Having to solo lockdown mobs as sin in bfa was a thousand times harder

Than as outlaw

[faint harness]

Iron wire >>>>>>> Gouge, assassination >>>>> outlaw, better aoe, better cc, better dmg profile, clear winner, reroll

[stoic needle]

I never said that iron wire was better than gouge

[limber lion]

Gouge should be baseline for all specs.

[shy dust]

I’d like if gouge was baseline

But instead we got shiv

[stoic needle]

I just said that it does the job good enough

[shy dust]

Which is useless for sin

Because it’s not allowed to function as utility

[faint harness]

It doesn’t do a similar job

So the comparison is wack

Iron wire is great to round things up at the start of a pull

[stoic needle]

How does garotte silencing not also function as a pseudo interrupt

[faint harness]

Gather all mobs

[limber lion]

Because you use vanish on cooldown for dps. It's not used as a way to interrupt mobs.

[faint harness]

Because with gouge you can cancel 1 mob all by yourself if needed with kicks, gouge and stuns

[limber lion]

Similar to Shiv. You don't delay using it for utility.

[faint harness]

That’s not what iron wire gives you

2 min cd too, not even close tbf

[simple wadi]

Probably better comp with blind but that’s better too

[shy dust]

Blind is baseline to all rogue specs

[limber lion]

I'm a hardcore Assa main and I big time have to agree that Gouge is superior for interrupting purposes and iron wire does not provide similar function.

[shy dust]

No reason to compare that

[stoic needle]

In the groups I run I don't encounter situations frequently enough where i need more cc than what garotte silencing gives. That's my point

[simple wadi]

Calm down man

[shy dust]

Then you’re probably just pulling small packs

[simple wadi]

I’m just trying to have a conversation

[stoic needle]

Nobody is saying that iron wire is better than gouge

[faint harness]

That’s fine, but we’re not looking at it from a personal POV or? I am thinking about what’s possible

[limber lion]

That's the thing. You're doing +15 keys where it's not as necessary. When you do closer to +22 keys, pulling big packs and controlling single mobs is much more important.

[faint harness]

You can definitely not use gouge at all as outlaw and still do great

I don’t think banned streamer presses it a whole lot

[limber lion]

Sometimes it's necessary that you single-handedly handle all interrupts on a mob by rotating kick/gouge.

That doesn't work with assa.

[faint harness]

But it’s a very good tool to have if you’re assigned to cancel something

[stoic needle]

Well no one really started this conversation with any context of what key level we were referring to

[limber lion]

Exactly, we were talking about generally.

[shy dust]

Maybe it’s value has diminished relative to bfa

[faint harness]

Well in lower keys you don’t really run into the situation where gouge is needed

[shy dust]

Bfa keys were much more demanding

On your responsibility to solo shut down things as a rogue

[manic harness]

uhhh

[limber lion]

There's still some dungeons where you have to do that, like Spires.

[manic harness]

hmm

[shy dust]

Spires there are some packs yeah

Where gouge and rotating stuns and kicks is amazing

[simple wadi]

I mean any key over 18 your going to end up interrupting with things other than kick

[faint harness]

Bfa dungeons went overboard with dangerous casts, actually insane

[shy dust]

It’s funny seeing bfa dungeons in comparison to sl

Missing a cast of the shadowbolt volley in KR

Was an instant deplete

[stoic needle]

I would love for baseline gouge smh

[limber lion]

Shadowbolt Volley in UR as well.

A lot of dogshit abilities in BFA, gotta say.

[iron orchid]

Me too

[faint harness]

Gouge should be baseline

[shy dust]

It really should

[faint harness]

They gave us shiv instead

[stoic needle]

[iron orchid]

Renown 22, the necro boi gotta go to sleep

[iron orchid]

Sick moves

[faint harness]

Still utility but niche

[shy dust]

Also push are you going necro

[faint harness]

Yea

[shy dust]

Why

[faint harness]

It’s nice

[shy dust]

Also shiv is so shit for sin cause it’s one of your main dps cooldowns

[stoic needle]

It's so bad

[iron orchid]

That's my answer too

[limber lion]

Yep. We also usually run Crippling instead of Numbing anyways.

[faint harness]

Necro is a st win over sepsis for me, add any target

[limber lion]

Also a 25s soothe is pretty terrible.

[faint harness]

And it should just become better

[iron orchid]

That's the worst part

[limber lion]

I did a key during raging week and one of the players said "it's okay, we got rogue who can soothe the raging mobs"

uhm

[simple wadi]

How has playing around Fleshcraft been?

[limber lion]

okay sure if everything dies 25s apart from one another

[manic harness]

Ceverion

[faint harness]

Start of fight press or downtime

[manic harness]

don't correct them

lmao

[iron orchid]

I play with a hunt and a druid and still sometimes was asked to soothe

[nocturne hawk]

Let them keep thinking were useful

[shy dust]

I mean

Rogue is still amazing for keys

Though that’s mostly outlaw not rogue

[faint harness]

Crippling is quite cool

[simple wadi]

Talking about raid or m+? Or both for Fleshcraft?

[faint harness]

Raid

No clue about m+

[limber lion]

Mob kiting was a huuuuge thing in Legion with the Warlock legendary. I wonder why it's not so prevalent anymore.

[simple wadi]

Yea that makes sense - Fleshcraft in m+ seems clunky to me

[limber lion]

Maybe it's just the design of the dungeons.

Warlocks have their legendary and rogues have crippling poison.

[faint harness]

Mob kiting is more of a thing now than in bfa

[shy dust]

Yeah bfa was awful

Tank moves out of range

And the next melee gets the tank shield slam

[limber lion]

Yeah. I just remember tanks kiting on most of the dungeons in Legion

[faint harness]

Also in legion tank threat was free, they could hit mobs 2-3 times and never drop aggro

Blizzard nerfed that

[limber lion]

Like pulling everything in Halls of Valor and just running back the long hallway

[limber lion]

True, yeah.

[iron orchid]

I choose necro because I'm currently slowly facing the fact that I will have to play outlaw in keys if I wanna push higher than 20 and don't get in a new team

[faint harness]

Yea it’s a threat thing

[limber lion]

Makes sense

[stoic needle]

Say it ain't so

[iron orchid]

Boii

If finding weapons for OL takes as long as it took for sin

[stoic needle]

I turned on outlaw loot spec this week

[limber lion]

Just kill Mythic Sire and get 233 weapon, then loot weekly chest for another 233 weapon for off hand, ez.

[iron orchid]

I think imma switch in 9.2 maybe

[inner granite]

So long as you get a main hand you will be fine. Your highest ilvl dagger in the offhand will usually be better anyways

[iron orchid]

That's the move

[iron orchid]

"ez"

[inner granite]

Yessir, offhand instant poison procs carry u to victory

[faint harness]

@shy dust you staying night

[shy dust]

nah

im going prob venthyr

[limber lion]

Venthyr gang

[shy dust]

my group is doing keys this week

so i cant switch

[faint harness]

Demon

[shy dust]

without being like 10 renown for next day

[faint harness]

Vampire

[iron orchid]

The problem is, I do no pvp, so right now I'm stuck with 213/210 daggers and my bad luck

[shy dust]

Listen youre doubling down on aoe

I am embracing pure st

[gloomy fern]

you clowns should stay kyrian like me

[faint harness]

How do we stay something we aint

[shy dust]

^

[gloomy fern]

im actually just a prisoner until we kill sire

[iron orchid]

But @stoic needle before switching I'll keep trying hard with the new cov and changes to sin, and with new weapons too (probably from valor)

[zenith ravine]

kyrian is the worst in terms of dps

[faint harness]

It was the best

[shy dust]

Losing soulshape

is the worst thing

[zenith ravine]

thats coming from renown 38 kyrian

[simple wadi]

I think venth in keys gonna have strong function for deleting prideful - worth losing a little aoe imo

[limber lion]

Soulshape is busted af. Door of Shadows feels so bad to press.

[shy dust]

necro looks nuts for aoe

[iron orchid]

I feel that

[limber lion]

Can't jump off a cliff and soulshape to survive either.

[gloomy fern]

just goblin glide

[lament mica]

ya there's enuf items / toys to make up for that

[nocturne hawk]

or shadowstep

[gloomy fern]

can u soulshape combo 2 knockback on sire

[hard pivot]

Gotta be something to shadowstep to though lol

[shy dust]

just step a dk

[faint harness]

Yes

[shy dust]

but yes you can soulsahpe that

[gloomy fern]

imagine having dks

[faint harness]

It’s the chad play

[shy dust]

soulshape into the red shit

[stoic needle]

Prideful is gone in 9.1 tho

[shy dust]

and youre gucci

[faint harness]

Random blink

Into danger

[modern grove]

Man Will venthyr be bis for all specs?

[simple wadi]

But I’m still doing keys now

[limber lion]

No

[zenith ravine]

venthyr BIS for single target

NECRO for mythic

[faint harness]

Venthyr is not bis for outlaw

[modern grove]

I pvp mainly can i stay night fae?

[gloomy fern]

push the outlaw necro player would know

[limber lion]

Yes

[faint harness]

I don’t touch outlaw with a 10 ft pole

[zenith ravine]

venthyr will be BIS for outlaw single targ

not for mythic

[gloomy fern]

i can see your public logs

[faint harness]

Wdym

I played outlaw once on slg

[gleaming reef]

outlaw feels fine, i just hate roll the bones randomness

[pastel seal]

Not playing optimal spec on progression fights?

[faint harness]

The cto change will make it nice

[faint harness]

I did on slg, which is the only fight it’s better

[pastel seal]

The only fight it's better? hahahahaha

[faint harness]

Uhm

[gleaming reef]

sin ST outlaw for aoe for me personally and I'm going venthyr because no one wants to deal with dot management of necro

[faint harness]

I mean I am not going to argue about how outlaw is overrated in CN. But slg and huntsman are the only 2 fights where playing outlaw actually mattered

[simple wadi]

The fact that outlaw pads doesn’t make other specs not viable

[shy dust]

I will GLADLY argue outlaw is overrated

I will PUSH the narrative

that people only look at WCL

and base everything off that

[simple wadi]

Like who cares about sun king dps outside of the shade?

[limber lion]

Sub has a lot of funnel damage at its disposal which is very much needed on several bosses.

[faint harness]

It’s not about pad for me, it’s just that it literally isn’t better for what’s important on the other fights

It might be equal? But that means quite fuckall to me

[simple wadi]

That’s what I mean push - a lot of the damage outlaw does isn’t relevant for the critical parts of many fights

Extra damage*

[faint harness]

If you played outlaw in CN despite hating it I feel sorry for you

[gloomy fern]

PUSHovers

[faint harness]

Gotta stand your ground

And say “stop mister, this isn’t necessary, here’s why”

[gloomy fern]

i hope there is a miracle and we kill sire tomorrow so i can swap cov

[nocturne hawk]

Should I be running MA or Subt on sludgefist?

[limber lion]

Nightstalker with the MA legendary

[nocturne hawk]

oh shiii

[limber lion]

And EP/MFD

[nocturne hawk]

thx no wonder my parses were shit

[limber lion]

I'm glad so many people are copying my build. Feels good man.

[half fjord]

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Fuus Shadowlands evaluation Spreadsheet: http://tiny.cc/uxr1tz

[lament mica]

u need that leggo that reduces vendetta cx

cd

shits pog

[limber lion]

No, it doesn't line up with Sludge pillars.

[lament mica]

i thought it did

[faint harness]

Nah

[limber lion]

MA is superior for now and probably Doomblade in 9.0.5

[faint harness]

Sludge pillar is 55

New duskwalker is 65-70?

[gloomy fern]

i dont remember how the earlier bosses work

[nocturne hawk]

That's what someone said last night, around 70

[silent dune]

How is doomblade good?

[lament mica]

cuz it does dam

[silent tinsel]

[nocturne hawk]

[lament mica]

say good bye to ur lil guy

[silent dune]

What covenant are Sin’s goons go in 9.0.5?

[teal bloom]

Letting that owl bond with you for 3 months and then leaving it D:

[limber lion]

Anything but Kyrian.

[silent dune]

I’ll just stay NF then

[limber lion]

Good choice

[loud niche]

venth > NF > necro > kyrian

[pliant apex]

juicy venthyr is going to like 130 dps more now

[silent dune]

I was thinking necro

[pliant apex]

i think thats a significant change

[limber lion]

For single specifically.

[pliant apex]

yea i mean venth is 130 dps more, thatss massive

[limber lion]

Also for single specifically.

[pliant apex]

yea , meant ST

[loud niche]

okay, but then you could do the same for every item and everything kekw

[silent dune]

Well damn... well I’ll wait until 40 renown to switch then

[pliant apex]

will i be able to use weapon illusion once switch covenants?

i know you cant use mounts

[pliant apex]

you get to keep titles?

[limber lion]

Best ST: Venthyr
Best AoE: Necrolord
Best all-around: NF
bad: Kyrian

[silent tinsel]

I thought it was like 350

5%

[loud niche]

what makes NF better all around than venth?

[lament mica]

rogue is kinda lucky they get to actually pick cov based on the aesthetic and wat ability they like

[pliant apex]

350 dps ? i just saw pins

[lament mica]

most classes its 1 option

[loud niche]

not like you'll lose out on the flag's buff in aoe

[silent tinsel]

6900 vs 7250?

[pliant apex]

i think doombblade over zoldyck is like 300 dps

[pulsar sluice]

Do you think pi is valued more on sin than uhdk?

[pliant apex]

since tuesday

[pulsar sluice]

Wonder how im gonna convince da guild

[silent dune]

Does the extra bleed give more energy back?

[loud niche]

yes i do think that sin > unh

[lament mica]

i think marks should still be the best for it tho

[silent tinsel]

I think dk will still have a higher burst for that pi

[pulsar sluice]

yeah the pi on pull with army

[hoary wasp]

unholy was my main at launch but I got bored of it

[limber lion]

Because it has good tools for ST, AoE AND because it has Soulshape. Soulshape is a huge benefit for a class and should be noted when picking a covenant.

[loud niche]

but it doesnt directly affect your dps

[limber lion]

No, and I didn't say that

I said best all around

[hoary wasp]

I think my rogue may just go venth but we'll see

[pulsar sluice]

sepsis isn't good for aoe tho

[limber lion]

It's better than Venthyr on PvP

[loud niche]

it's got sepsis over flag, and flag is better than sepsis

[pliant apex]

soulshape helps with fights sure, but nothing helps more than dps i think

[limber lion]

Venthyr is really bad with downtime as well.-

[hoary wasp]

true

[lament mica]

for sure altho necro could potentially be the best pvp cov ability

[limber lion]

Dead dps = no dps

[lament mica]

buffed shieldcraft thingie

[pliant apex]

but once you learn fights, you want numbers

[loud niche]

^

[pliant apex]

now 130 dps is a massive number

[limber lion]

Exactly

[pulsar sluice]

in what situation would you absolutely want soulshape that you can't just door of shadows

[limber lion]

That's why you don't take NF if you want numbers

[pulsar sluice]

like inerva root you can easily door of shadows

[limber lion]

If you want an all-arounder (like I've been saying this all time, mind you) then you go Night Fae.

[loud niche]

when you misplay and need to react with a blink

[limber lion]

It works for all content.

Venthyr is awful in pvp

[loud niche]

if you want an all rounder in pve you'd go venth

[low girder]

or when someone else misplays

ie SLG soaks

[lament mica]

i will say door of shadows is potentially really nice on certain pvp maps where u can use the vertical option of door of shadows

[hoary wasp]

Does necrolord with the buffs now fare decently well for everything or is it mainly specific content

[limber lion]

Venthyr is not the best for fights with a lot of downtime. Sepsis works A LOT better for several fights.

[pliant apex]

130 dps is going to be 2 guys above you in guild probably

so if youre no 6 dps, youll be no 4

[pulsar sluice]

the burst might not agree with you there

[lament mica]

blades edge i think its called?

[pulsar sluice]

you don't need resets as sin

[limber lion]

Burst?

[pulsar sluice]

yes lashing scars burst in pvp

[loud niche]

you're right. and i didnt say it was, or that sepsis wasn't

[faint harness]

Venthyrs biggest weakness is uptime requirement

[loud niche]

i said the best pve all rounder would be venth

[limber lion]

But... you were.

And it's not.

NF is the best all rounder

Like, it's not even a question

[loud niche]

you've explained how NF is better in pvp

and in downtime fights where you cannot be on target

[limber lion]

The covenant ability is a fire and forget ability. You don't need to stay on the target for 24s

[hoary wasp]

There was previously a bug on ptr that made exsanguinate work with bone spike Im guessing that was fixed right

[limber lion]

You have Soulshape which is the most op covenant ability

[low girder]

yes

[loud niche]

but you've yet to explain how it's better in pve aoe

[limber lion]

You have a perfect soulbind for ST

And a perfect soulbind for AoE/M+

[hoary wasp]

wouldve been funny if that went live

[faint harness]

Korayn for m+

[loud niche]

you keep throwing out soulshape for pve content, but that doesn't affect your dps

[pulsar sluice]

Usually you are lining up sepsis with vendetta, so if we are going to feelcraft sepsis requires no downtime most of the time aswell

[faint harness]

Niya for sustained aoe

[limber lion]

I never talked about dps?

What

[loud niche]

i counter with lashing scars

[hoary wasp]

so if I went necrolord what would be best soulbind

pve

[limber lion]

"All rounder" does not mean "does best dps on all content"

[silent tinsel]

Does downtime matter if you use flag fully each window?

[faint harness]

Counter?

[pliant apex]

now you dont have to activate flagellation btw

[limber lion]

Let me quote myself here again

[pliant apex]

you use it once, like sepsis

[limber lion]

.

[loud niche]

i disagree.

[pliant apex]

ceve, venth is the winner, by far

[limber lion]

It's not

[pliant apex]

sucks for me too, i have to change from nf, but dont see a way around

[pulsar sluice]

dude how can you say sepsis requires no downtime when you want to use it with vendetta

[limber lion]

You're not even talking about the same thing Watermill

[pliant apex]

exactly