assassination

[torpid spoke]

Ass

[lament mica]

8k isnt even crazy at all lol monks do like fuckin 13k

[low girder]

part of the reason why dashing didn't fall off when we found out envenom doesn't pandemic anymore

[torpid spoke]

You mean m+ overall?

[lament mica]

yes

[torpid spoke]

Link to show

Or like some proof

[sage fern]

should be easy to look it up on warcraftlogs, no?

[torpid spoke]

13k overall is like instant one shot packs and insane speed all doing 13k dps per pull so ur both pulling dumb shit numbers out of no where

[indigo mulch]

? You easily peak at 20~30k with buffs running on packs as WW.

[torpid spoke]

Even fire mages have downtime between combust so that drops ur dps a lot overall damage

Lol still downtime and boss kills bring overall down a lot

Not saying it’s impossible but I’d like to see the logs

[sage fern]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/DLpYBKXhrv4zmnQH#fight=6&type=damage-done

[balmy condor]

oh no no no

[indigo mulch]

Rofl

Whispyr!

[limber lion]

LMAO

[balmy condor]

I think I have bingo for tonight

[torpid spoke]

That’s 6k dps lol where is this 8k overall coming from

[limber lion]

In his video he said "people always ask me how assa is doing so much damage. I'm such a better player, that's simply it"

KEKW

[balmy condor]

it goes "is necro better" "what lego do I craft" "does sin scale" "freebie" and the random link to infexious

that's bingo right

[low girder]

i would say you won but i don't have a prize

[limber lion]

Did you see Infexous' rotation on ST?

Gar > rup > gar

[balmy condor]

[indigo mulch]

What do you mean, thats bis obv.

:>

[limber lion]

He also runs with the FoK conduit

[sage fern]

so when you guys talk about 8k you mean 8k on warcraft logs? they count outfight time into the dps right?

[balmy condor]

he just bill dipperly

[low girder]

fuckin

what

[indigo mulch]

Didnt you see the video mata?

Wait let me find it

[balmy condor]

link it in a dm

[low girder]

isn't he filtered?

[balmy condor]

no

he's not

[low girder]

oh

[late birch]

infexious in that video said that the soulbind does increased damage above 75% and below 35%, i thought it was increased damage 75% and increased healing below 35% or some shit/

[balmy condor]

but I will filter it myself

:)

[indigo mulch]

As you command my lord @balmy condor

[low girder]

lmao

[rigid tartan]

Do you still ambush->snd->ambush when specced into subterfuge?

[balmy condor]

jesus what is it tonight

[low girder]

you would be correct

[torpid spoke]

Yes

[balmy condor]

never ambush outside of blindside, if you're running subt, you garrote once on single target

[low girder]

he can't read

[limber lion]

My best is 6.9k on Mists.

Not sure how you can get 8k+

[late birch]

rip

[balmy condor]

holy shit

[rigid tartan]

Meaning garrote->snd->? On opener st with subterfuge?

[balmy condor]

that's actually

the worst opener

you can do

single target

[low girder]

did he just spam ct

on a 4 pack

sigh

[balmy condor]

idk

but I looked at his opener single target

and that's what I saw

and now I want to gouge my eyes out with a spoon

[celest sundial]

Is shiv not showing on logs?

[balmy condor]

gar mut snd

[low girder]

no, it doesn't in casts

[balmy condor]

yeah, it's not tracked on casts, cause blizzard sucks

[low girder]

only in dmg instances

[rigid tartan]

Thank you sensei

[iron orchid]

if you manage to get 15k dps on the first boss

[celest sundial]

dafuq, was trying to look at the top logs and how they did their setups

thats weird af

[low girder]

whispyr you have any idea if that's fixed in 9.0.5

lol

my guess is no

[balmy condor]

well look at the opener above, then do anything but that

[balmy condor]

probably not

[low girder]

unlucky

[indigo mulch]

What do you mean, he's a great rogue spreading accurate information to the rogue community.

[rigid tartan]

Opener with master assassin talent then like replace garrote with ambush?

[celest sundial]

what is so bad with that opener?

[balmy condor]

oh no no no

[balmy condor]

well, lets go through it.

1. you don't garrote twice from stealth
2. you don't ambush from stealth
3. slice should be cast before rupture

[celest sundial]

aha

[indigo mulch]

I think the reasoning behind garrote first is the silence thing for m

[balmy condor]

so if we're just counting globals, out of the first 6, 3 are wrong

[balmy condor]

[rigid tartan]

If you play master assassin you do ambush from stealth though right? I saw that in a top parse I think

[balmy condor]

it's a fucking boss tho homeboy

[balmy condor]

no

[indigo mulch]

Oh my.

nvm then.

[celest sundial]

why is snd higher prio than rupture tho, I would have thought getting rupture up for energy would be the biggest prio

[indigo mulch]

roflmao

[balmy condor]

slice does more damage, and currently still gives energy as well

[celest sundial]

okok, makes sense

[low girder]

ok small update, idk what the first pull was but he's not spamming CT on small packs anymore

hooray

progress

[celest sundial]

so with MA talented on ST fights you mutilate - SND - mutilate - garrote - rupture?

[shadow helm]

should you spam CT even if its not like 1 second left

[limber lion]

Either Boomkins don't do anything outside their Convoke-window or this boomie that I did a dungeon with is awful

[balmy condor]

exactly

[lament mica]

boomies have really good dmg aoe regardless of any cd

[low girder]

i'll let whispyr answer that but i think it's like 7-8+ targets before you start doing CT over envenom

[celest sundial]

ok thanks, and during vendetta you make sure you shiv on high combo points and vanish into envenom - mutilate - envenom assuming mutilate crits?

[limber lion]

I legit get whispers after EVERY SINGLE dungeon that I do from people saying "Wow Assa does so much damage"

Lmao

[balmy condor]

yes

[limber lion]

Do they expect Assa to deal like 2k overall

Or what's up

[celest sundial]

cool thx, Imma go craft my assa leggo now and do some testing

[balmy condor]

you actually never do

[low girder]

i expect most pugs to do like 4

so

oh, rip

[celest sundial]

Zoldyck here I come

[balmy condor]

the time you refresh just goes up

so I think on 4 targets, you would refresh with like 3, in pandemic

[limber lion]

MA is pretty fun in M+. I love blasting bosses with it.

[balmy condor]

and with 5+ you would refresh out of pandemic at like 5 or 6

but at not point is the play to just hard cast one CT after the other

also feel like the 5+ bleeds thing is a little misleading, cause you still rupture everything that lives long enough

[limber lion]

Too many people do this then they complain that "Assa gets energy-starved so often"

[balmy condor]

but it's just complicated condition stuff happening

[low girder]

ah ok

[balmy condor]

so I get that it's just easier to call it 5+ and then end it there

[elfin valley]

maybe im just a monkey and dont understand as to why but whats the draw towards using mut instead of ambush on opener from stealth>?

[low girder]

more combo points

[celest sundial]

one more question, since Im playing mainly outlaw for both raid and m+, I still want to use one of my soulbinds (nightfae) for that, which would you reccomend I use for assa, niya or korayn?

looks like niya for ST fights and korayn for m+ or aoe fights

[rigid tartan]

Do you cast ambush when you have the sepsis Proc? Or just let it run out?

[limber lion]

It has more potential for more combo points and it also applies your poisons with both hands.

[elfin valley]

ty friends

[balmy condor]

depends what you're doing, the logic is the same as law, korayn sucks single target, niya burrs in single target. the difference is that herbs is pretty good everywhere for sin

[balmy condor]

let it run out

[rigid tartan]

Thank you very much whispyr

[limber lion]

Potential is the wrong word here, it just flat out gives you more combo points on average.

[celest sundial]

wouldnt Wild Hunt Tactics from Korayn be really good with the Zoldyck leggo tho? even more execute

[low girder]

wild hunt tactics doesn't have execute

that's only for healing

[limber lion]

Read the tooltip more closely

[celest sundial]

ooh my bad

[balmy condor]

the infexious bait

[low girder]

stiletto stillacco

[iron orchid]

I actually went and watched one of his keys yesterday

[shadow helm]

wat soulbinds for m+ BRO

conduwit

[iron orchid]

he ran poisoned katar on a tyrannical week ...

[iron orchid]

lethal poisons

[low girder]

yeah ceverion just mentioned that

idgi

like i shit talk while not being good exactly but i'm also not going around spreading misinfo that you need 34% crit or that you should run PK on tyrannical

[shadow helm]

no TROLL

[limber lion]

Idk maybe he runs pugs that only pull 5 mobs at a time. But in my groups I find myself slapping 3 mobs most of the time, where it's not even worth using FoK

And it's a literal dead conduit for bosses.

[iron orchid]

that's the sad part

[limber lion]

At least looking at the video, I don't see his group pulling 4 extra mobs for him to FoK during the boss fights.

:--)

[balmy condor]

I just watched him triple garrote into a rupture

on like 9 targets

and it hurts man

[low girder]

rofl

[strange python]

yikes

[balmy condor]

wait

but then he spams CT

[limber lion]

he's trolling

[balmy condor]

so rupture > CT at the start, when you have a lot of mobs

[limber lion]

has to be

right?

[balmy condor]

and CT > everything when you have less mobs cause they dying

yes yes

logic very good

[low girder]

i've seen him quite a few times hit FoK on 4 CP, am i a moron or isn't that terrible every time

[shadow helm]

wats da propper

[limber lion]

Yeah, don't.

Unless you play Deeper Strata

Which I doubt

[low girder]

you have no idea how hard it is to beat that out of yourself when you play outlaw

[balmy condor]

CT would be better to start with

[limber lion]

Also 4 garrotes > 3 garrotes

[balmy condor]

yeh

there's that too

[iron orchid]

I'm actually uploading 2G of M+ logs

i wanna die

this is taking so long

[low girder]

oh god i haven't checked my log file in a while

but i've also been on the bench for most of it

[balmy condor]

wait

[low girder]

maybe it's not too large

[balmy condor]

wait

wait

he just said that in the opener

you want to

hold on

[limber lion]

Oh no

[balmy condor]

3 garrotes, rupture, garrote

[shadow helm]

do u use vendetta on large pulls

[balmy condor]

I'm sorry WHAT

[limber lion]

[low girder]

oh god why

[balmy condor]

you should be using vendetta on whatever you can, prio targets etc, even in big aoe, it's off the GCD and gives free energy

[shadow helm]

oge

[iron orchid]

actually I often find myself garroting 3 times then rupturing just to keep alacrity up because I am running out of time. But this will never be a thing after 9.0.5

[low girder]

also 10.6gb, could be worse lol

[limber lion]

Tbh I don't even look at alacrity

It just happens

[balmy condor]

HE STILL SHIVS BEFORE SEPSIS

IM FUMING

[limber lion]

Not sure if I should pay attention to it

[limber lion]

Literally why

[iron orchid]

I do it a lot, often keeping cps during packs to just SnD before entering to refresh the buff

[limber lion]

Sepsis = 10s
Shiv = 9s

Sepsis explosion benefits from Shiv

let's use shiv first 🙂

[balmy condor]

wait

[low girder]

shiv then vendetta

[iron orchid]

It helps having evertything up during your burst windows

[balmy condor]

hold on

so he CT's single target

which is like

Sim-perfect

[iron orchid]

x)

He must be a pro

[balmy condor]

but he refuses to open properly

or shiv after sepsis

[iron orchid]

but does he CT during shiv window ?

[balmy condor]

wait he explains it

and it's actually flawless

you're telling me

this dude can explain the reasoning behind CT single target perfectly

but can't figure out what order to hit shiv and sepsis in

[shadow helm]

FOK SUCKS!!

[iron orchid]

He actually comes in here and reads what is up sometimes

[balmy condor]

good

he should

he needs the help

[iron orchid]

x)

[low girder]

i just realized

[iron orchid]

I'm still not half way through my log upload

[shadow helm]

start foking at 5 or 4 targets?

[balmy condor]

4

[iron orchid]

4

Btw, I got Inerva down last night, gonna do Sun King next, probably gonna down it this week

[limber lion]

Good job.

[iron orchid]

the MM prog finally starting

2 months late

[limber lion]

Sun King is ResidentSleeper

Really need to consider getting nitro for the memes

[iron orchid]

We already did two hours prog on Sun King, but then we couldn't manage to have five heals for 2 weeks

[sharp mica]

any comments on the reworked sbs yet? cant see any in pins at least

[balmy condor]

looks pretty good but we don't have sim implementation yet

[sharp mica]

i see

[shadow helm]

should you try you try to get an envenom in a 5+ target pull bros

[iron orchid]

can't manage to type fast enough in english, still have to think my sentences through

Whispyr 2 fast

[balmy condor]

I mean maybe, but there's like a million other priorities first

the only time I see it happening would be at the end of the pull when you're not rupturing

[limber lion]

That's the thing, Whispyr doesn't need to think about the answer. He has all the answers in his subconsciousness and he just pulls them from there. That's what happens when you answer the same questions 30 times a day.

[balmy condor]

I mean

kinda true

[pastel seal]

This has probably been asked a thousand times, so sorry for asking again, but do we know yet if Zoldyck will generally stay meta, or if Doomblade will be the new meta on ST fights?

[balmy condor]

dashing/doom look to be better when you don't need the execute

[pastel seal]

So any non-Sire Mythic build probably, alright, thank you

[balmy condor]

np

[eager sorrel]

in MM+ with MA won t it be good to refresh all dots and vanish for 4-5s to have all crit ?

[balmy condor]

no

sitting in stealth with MA is really bad

[eager sorrel]

ok ty 🙂

[limber lion]

Just noticed that I had melee as 2nd highest skill in ToP

Usually it's gar > ct > melee

Guess ToP is not as dense

[balmy condor]

ToP got a lot of smaller pulls

yeh

[celest sundial]

on single target do I hold my second sepsis and line it up with second vendetta?

[scenic kelp]

yo guys i dont know what to do. i was slacky with legos. i play outlaw normaly but hope that assa will be the strongest in 9.0.5. so i have now finality and celerity on 235. zoldyck and MA on 190. you guys think i craft MA to 235 and then wait for 9.0.5 for ifficial sims or can i craft zoldyck to 235 or wait for 9.0.5? and craft then (hopefully) doomblade?

[balmy condor]

you line up unless you're going to miss a cast

[celest sundial]

aight cool thx

[balmy condor]

I personally would get MA to 235 and then craft something else

[scenic kelp]

k

i simmed a bit this morning and doomblade is by now the strongest for me idk why

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/5pnet5PWTqvPbTbhaAi61a

[balmy condor]

it be like that

[pastel seal]

Pre buff? I'm guessing raidbots doesn't have an option to sim with patchnotes

[balmy condor]

you can, but it has to be in an advanced sim, and the notes actually have to be implemented in sims

simulationcraft doesn't just magically work ya know

[pure niche]

how can i find assassin guide ?

[balmy condor]

!guide

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
RH: https://www.ravenholdt.net/guides/assassination-rogue-guide-shadowlands-raid-dps/
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide

[vestal wren]

you can sim ptr changes by adding ptr=1 in advanced sim

but keep in mind that the bone spike changes are not on ptr yet

[pure niche]

!guide

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
RH: https://www.ravenholdt.net/guides/assassination-rogue-guide-shadowlands-raid-dps/
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide

[pure niche]

hmm

intresting 😄

ty m8

[vestal wren]

what you could do is manipulate spelldata (write spelldata overwrites)
to change the initial damage of bone spike as this seems to be the biggest change

you can get the spelldata from: https://github.com/simulationcraft/simc/tree/shadowlands/SpellDataDump
and read how you can create a overwrite on: https://github.com/simulationcraft/simc/wiki/SpellData

[tender fjord]

ngl, i feel bad for the amount that infexious gets shit on in this disc

He tries and sounds funny cmv

[balmy condor]

the easy solution to that would be to stop saying random nonsense

[tender fjord]

the guy wants to make content for the general public but feels hindered by all the different covenants making subtle differences and gets lost in the woods

[vestal wren]

I didn't see infex mentioned a lot

[tender fjord]

and he is a content creator so gets held to high standards, which i get

[balmy condor]

he got lost in the woods in legion, and bfa, and shadowlands. That's not the issue

dude just says wrong things

[tender fjord]

but f me, i sometimes vanish instead of mount as well. but lucky for me no one sees it

[balmy condor]

you don't make guides that say vanish instead of mount

[vestal wren]

overall a lot of people like educational content
The memes start if someone does wasnt to be educational and does not provide such

[balmy condor]

is the difference

[tender fjord]

ye i didnt play wow before SL so my first contact with rogues was actually that guy

[sleek sparrow]

[vestal wren]

e.g. why people usually meme certain content creators

in the same way that we talk about scaling as a meme in here

[balmy condor]

I welcome more content creators, I embrace content creators in fact. I've told people to watch dei for sin rogue keys, I've pointed people to youtubes like zera and crim, because they're content creators that actually have accurate, valid information

[tender fjord]

HE MADE ME ROLL NECRO FROM THE START I KNOW 🥲 🥲 😝

[sleek sparrow]

I haven't seen actual class videos for wow even in recommends since like MoP

Other than pvp highlight reels

[balmy condor]

when the content creator in question says some shit that's wrong, doubles down on it, and repeats the same stuff, over, and over, and over. And keeps saying wrong things, over, and over, and over

that's when the fun stops for me

[vestal wren]

and preach being one mentioned a lot because of his very dissenting view on the topic

[balmy condor]

cause that wrong stuff, ends up here

and when it ends up here

it becomes my problem (kinda)

[pastel seal]

Does anyone have context or link regarding the whole vanish mount thing?

[balmy condor]

it was an example he gave

[tender fjord]

i dont know, i really agree that we should call out his blatant outrageous wrong callouts, but at the same time I saw his smile during streams dissapear slowly over the first few weeks of SL

I feel for the guy

[balmy condor]

I lost all empathy for it

[tender fjord]

LOL i have mount bound to Shift Spacebar, vanish to Shift B. i do it like once a day tbh

[balmy condor]

if you can't say accurate information, but then claim to be an expert

then you're just an ass

[sleek sparrow]

I love preach and I love shitting on preach, they really go hand in hand nowadays fuu

[balmy condor]

we all make mistakes, I make hella mistakes

it's bound to happen

things are allowed to be wrong

but when things are wrong more than they are right, and no concessions are made to right the errors that you created

that's a problem

and when you have a following, and reach as many people as he does

that's a BIG problem

[tender fjord]

its the whole reason I came to this disc tbh

just to get a bit of factual info

[balmy condor]

like if he would just say "this is how I play, it's probably not optimal, everything here is my opinion"

no problems

but in every video, he makes it seem like he's an expert on the matter

and then just gives nonsense information

and I hate that

I hate it so much

[vestal wren]

i think a critical view is a very healthy thing
The main problem is that content creators who have a bigger audience do sacrifice quality a lot.
They don't spend a lot of time to get correct information that's why its in general advised to take nothing they say at face value

[balmy condor]

I shit on preach a lot less, if you didn't know, because although he also has said some things that are wrong

he also prefaces things by saying stuff like "I haven't played rogue in a long time"

and it seems like he genuinely makes an effort to tell people that he isn't the best

and that he doesn't know

and that's okay

[sleek sparrow]

Oh yeah

[balmy condor]

it's okay to not know things

[tender fjord]

Yeah making sure that their info is 100% correct just don't align with their interests as a content creator, which is sad overall

[vestal wren]

to emphasize this, this does not mean that certain things they say is not true.
There are a lot of things/problems they have valid reasons to criticize.

[tender fjord]

they just want to pump out videos asap

[sleek sparrow]

I mean even as he's ya know 9/10m he emphasizes that hes really bad at optimizing in m+

[tender fjord]

and ppl here have to answer that 34% haste does not make you a god XD

[sleek sparrow]

And it's not his focus etc

[balmy condor]

actually started as crit

I was in the front lines kiddo

back in the war

[sleek sparrow]

I mainly watch preach for the banter nowadays

[tender fjord]

😂

[balmy condor]

🧓

[sleek sparrow]

[balmy condor]

wasn't actually that long ago

but it was brutal

[strange python]

[balmy condor]

half of this chat every day was just 34% crit

[low girder]

Can confirm

Shit show

[tender fjord]

I laugh my ass of so hard because of it whenever I see people get here with info like that

[vestal wren]

Its the same with limit max, his content is rly good.
But he also gets a lot of things wrong (you can't know everything).
And one rly bad thing is that people do forget that the context of his content is the world first race.

[balmy condor]

yeah

I mean it's like that a lot these days with streamers honestly

and I don't know if there's a good way to fix it

happens in other games too

you just copy what the best players are doing

cause they're the best

[tender fjord]

I don't think you should feel responsible to fix it

just let people go about how they want it and just stick to the truth yourself

thats my approach anyway

[stark anchor]

just gives you an opportunity to be better than other people ye

[balmy condor]

I would do that, but that goes against every fibre in my being

[tender fjord]

although I get that you have to moderate the discussion a little bit because we don't want this disc to become an echo chamber of nonsense

[subtle kiln]

there are other underlying issue from a certain rogue content creator that stems from their days as a member of this discord when they had certain “theory crafting” privileges, but that’s a whole different story besides all the shit they get wrong.

[vestal wren]

I btw. think max is somewhat in line with my thinking of a good approach

[balmy condor]

I'm very much not one to just let something incorrect just sit and stew

even if I didn't have a shiny color or anything

that's what I did all of 8.3

[winter gale]

Atm what sims best for assa in terms of Cov/leggo ?

[low girder]

Much like now it was "how much haste do I need?"

[winter gale]

For 9.0.5*

[vestal wren]

i think putting out good information in a easy to understand format is the best approach.
You can't control if this information is used incorrectly.

[low girder]

And the answer was still: til the sim tells you to stop

[tender fjord]

general answer to all your questions is in the pins

[balmy condor]

venthyr/dashing, but necro looks good, and if they fix doomblade, that would be better than dashing

but yes

there are also millions of pins on the topic

[vestal wren]

necro cold be interesting too

[sleek sparrow]

I might just end up going Necro since it was what I was looking forward too back in beta

[winter gale]

So I will need to go back to Venthyr

Good and bad at the same time

[tender fjord]

Im actually happy our scottish memelord steered me to necro. i liked it whilst lvl'ing and there seem to be few

and now it might compete

[subtle kiln]

downtime with dashing could lead to some high points of overcapped energy. patchwerk fight it looks good.

[hazy geyser]

so is the serrated bone spike buff good enough to bring back assa or is it still shitty?

[vestal wren]

The community fixes certain misinformation themselves
This is were we come back to the beginning of the discussion
Its why certain streamers are more seen as a meme

[tender fjord]

we will have to see, no clear answer to it yet

[balmy condor]

sin is back without that

[vestal wren]

assassination could end up very strong in 9.0.5

[balmy condor]

yeah

[vestal wren]

the main factor is that the "top" melee specs got all nerfed

[hazy geyser]

sin is still simming on the lower end though right?

idk about that one DK is still looking dumb good

[vestal wren]

and assassination got slightly buffed mostly due to covenant buffs tho

[subtle kiln]

UH will be on the decline.

[tender fjord]

if you do m+ i kind off think you should go either venthyr or necro just for the dungeon buffs. There are very few of them. for personal gains the differences are so little

[vestal wren]

Uh seems in general to fall behind a bit atm

and ww got bug fixed what put them a lot lower

[hazy geyser]

yeah but they still have AMZ which will always be insane in raid

[vestal wren]

this changes the entire melee balance

[winter gale]

Very strong vs other classes or just vs other 2 own specs?

[subtle kiln]

you have prot warrior and blood dk both getting stronger

[hazy geyser]

that ww "bug fix" straight up broke storm earth and fire it doesnt cast half of the time now

[subtle kiln]

brings darkness back into the comp

[low girder]

Prot warr seems insane now ngl

[vestal wren]

its a bit early to say, but assassination could end up as #1 melee dps

[shy axle]

prot war buff in addition to the new lego effect seems very strong

[winter gale]

Uuuuuu

[balmy condor]

how are you still up dude

[vestal wren]

keep in mind, we still talk about melee dps and not all dps

[low girder]

Well I didn't get into bed until 6:30 so

[sleek sparrow]

Imagine getting brought to raid as melee dps

[hazy geyser]

yeah top melee dps is like bottom 5 overall thanks to all the PI abuse lol

[vestal wren]

Assassination gets quite good benefits from pi iirc

[hazy geyser]

yeah but why would you give assa a PI when you can give it to a lock or mage that will shit damage like there's no tomorrow

[winter gale]

Its ok, if I am better player and best or atleast equal in dmg with other specs with CD I will be taken more often.

[sleek sparrow]

You don't normally give PI to mages tho

[winter gale]

Being an serious option again is all I need,

[subtle kiln]

you’re still melee

[vestal wren]

to come back on the perception thing.
Preach predicted Rogue to be good later due to scaling.
But assassinaiton would not be good due to scaling, it literally got a 20% aura buff, a slight buff due to bugfixes/changes, a legendary power buff and a covenant buff

[sleek sparrow]

I mean as long as you're a solid player in general and not pushing for top world rankings or anything you'll be fine playing whatever

[winter gale]

Atm I feel like that kid with no friends to play with 😂

[vestal wren]

so none of that is scaling related but straight out buffs ^^

[lament mica]

no, u see that's the true scaling

[vestal wren]

melee/ranged balance seems rly weird this xpac

[hazy geyser]

yeah but the buff is on ability damage and rogue does like 20% melee attack damage

[winter gale]

In general this xpac is not that good as it felt in the begining

But thats my own opinion

[lament mica]

melee vs. range balance is def not there atm

thats for facts

[hazy geyser]

and its only getting worse and worse

[vestal wren]

its a "legion 2.0" but with a much slower release cycle

[winter gale]

Maybe it would be better for me if class is better but who knows. I dont know any good reward I got since release

[hazy geyser]

i think the melee ranged split is like 35-65 or 30-70 in BOTH raid and M+ which is just insane

[low girder]

And no AP.

[winter gale]

Something I could say wow I got it

[lament mica]

eh, there tends to be a 35-65 split in raids excluding tanks a lot of the time in other xpacs, but the m+ th ing is dumb

[vestal wren]

most systems are just iterations of old systems, there is nothing new.
what is fine, i think the main problems right now are:
#1 balancing does not happen enough
#2 blizz sleeps on the compatitive side, a lot of content has no motivating factor
#3 release shedule seems wayyy to long, we might look at a 6 month first tier

[winter gale]

Legion is something thats being played even today when ppl go for the skins. Imo thats by far the best expansion. But thats not a subject here, sorry

[lament mica]

CN feels relatively nice to melee except like sludge and sire

[sleek sparrow]

Wut

[pastel osprey]

lol what

[vestal wren]

i don't think the content design is super bad for melee

[hazy geyser]

what the fuck are you smoking bro? i want some of that shit because CN is disgustingly horrible for melee

[vestal wren]

but its bad enough to make you not want to bring them on certain fights

[lament mica]

ya ppl say that but its not really true, which fights are so awful

[winter gale]

For me its bad for melee

[vestal wren]

also it does not seems like there are a lot of additional mechanics that would make bringing ranged less desireable

[sleek sparrow]

Hungering feels dog, inerva feels real bad when you get beams, council swapping/cleaving unless you stack dks, sludgefist kekw

[winter gale]

I dont feel nice as melee there

[hazy geyser]

sludgefist and council, hungering and xymox to an extent

[lament mica]

whats so bad for melee in council? there's actually a bunch of anti-ranged mechanics in taht fight

[celest ruin]

is there a boss in the history of wow which favors melee over ranged

[winter gale]

Few hard boss mechanics can br dealt with as ranged by just going a bit closer or further, completely avoiding them

[celest ruin]

like enough to hardstack all dps as melee and keep like 2-3 ranged

[hazy geyser]

you are kidding right? adds are ALL over the room and the only 3 adds you can hit are bosses and 2 of them dont count for damage

[lament mica]

hungering is pretty good uptime too

[vestal wren]

last boss of nighthold did like to have a more melee heavy setup

[lament mica]

there's like 2 classes that pad hard on council u just wanna do boss damage lol

[winter gale]

And some mechanics are multiplied for melees couse of close stacking

[vestal wren]

but that was also due to balancing ^^

nh was also when assassination still had argonizing poison iirc

[winter gale]

Just masacre and crescendo for melee vs ranged are way worse

[sleek sparrow]

Yep

[winter gale]

Sludge as melee

[sleek sparrow]

Blessed agonizing

[lament mica]

boomy in particular is clearly just broken and gets to ignore a lot of the anti ranged mechanics cuz of their burst being instacast, but like destro on council sounds annoying as hell

[winter gale]

Forces to lower visuals

[hazy geyser]

destro is horrible in general but they'll still do better than most melee

[sleek sparrow]

Sludge as melee > gets benched if you have an odd number

[winter gale]

Or I cant otherwise see those pools undernath Sludge

[lament mica]

it was just an example, another one might be ele who enjoy getting to just turret

[sleek sparrow]

Like me

[hazy geyser]

i dont know why they always make fights just a nightmare for melee

[lament mica]

ranged is definitely broken in CN, I just don't think melee is THAT bad except a couple of fights. sludge in particular is sickeningly poorly designed for melee

[late birch]

bring quaking affix onto raid bosses and casters will suffer with us 🙂

[hazy geyser]

there is always 1 boss ALWAYS this tier is slugefist NT was ilgynoth and raden EP it was queen's court CS was everyting BOD mekkatorque and stormwall

[blissful wolf]

Anyone think the doomblade will be BIS for raids in 9.05?

[lament mica]

like the issues in raid are issues that have existed for a while cuz there's needs to be more anti-ranged mechanics, but the m+ issues are just so much worse imo cuz melee used to be insane there now they have 0 point

[sleek sparrow]

Now people will just use kyrian hunters instead of rogues for NW

[hazy geyser]

they designed M+ to be kinda linear which blows and that gets rid of the importance of shroud which was a big part and now most melee is capped to 5 and ranged is uncapped

[lament mica]

ya melee being capped and ranged being uncapped is so ???

like by nature of being melee ur more vulnerable and basic game design dictates that means u shoudl do more dam

[hazy geyser]

yeah idk what the fuck they are thinking they say "we want to balance the game so you bring the player not the class" then fuck melee aoe and give boomie convoke like wtf

[lament mica]

boom is just an abomination. "lemme hit mobs from literally 90 yards apart from each other"

[lost igloo]

So, what’s the verdict on the serrated bone spike changes?

[pure niche]

hi guys i reading guide and in rotation section opener part it didnt say to use ambush while in sleath can u tell me why ?

i check logs ppl are not useing ambush in log to

only on proc

[vestal wren]

that we need to wait for it to arrive on ptr @lost igloo

[lost igloo]

Ahh yes

I didn’t realise it was such a fresh change 🤦‍♂️

[honest silo]

You don’t use ambush outside of blindside procs

The combo point generation from mutilate is better

[pure niche]

@honest silo aha i understand now multi in invis give u 4 combo i was using multi out of invis

thanks m8

[viral meadow]

to elaborate a bit more, it doesn't have anything to do with stealth (unless youre running MA). Mutilate can crit with each weapon individually (4cp max). Ambush can only do it once (3cp max). It's a chance thing.

[pure niche]

yeah i have MA

[viral meadow]

yep. all the more reason to mutilate

but same goes for all other times too

[pure niche]

one more question is it ok to use shiv conduit for mythic +?

@viral meadow

[tender fjord]

Yes

Wps or lp both best options

[wind totem]

Whats the best opener? I'm currently opening with ambush and doing a garrote and the first CP is spent on rupture before SnD. Should SnD be before rupture?

[neat jacinth]

Will the assa be any good in 9.0.5 regarding M+. I mean like better than out or sub

[indigo mulch]

Not better than outlaw

for sure.

but if your not doing keys above 20 it really dosent matter what you play tbh D:

[wind totem]

I disagree. It sure mattesr to the rest of the group if you are doing suboptimal dps for your class

[indigo mulch]

So, what spec cannot keep up in m+ in a +20 key if played correctly?

[wind totem]

I dont understand your question. Outlaw is objectively superior in every situation in every dungeon for m+ and not by a small margin.

[indigo mulch]

Not disagreeing with you, dosent mean you can't run assassination and time the same key tho

[tender fjord]

Get snd up before rupture, don’t use ambush except when talented into blindside and you get a proc

[wind totem]

I got it talented. What should I use from stealth if not Ambush?

Mutiliate?

[indigo mulch]

Mutilate.

[tender fjord]

This is completely wrong. I do less dps with outlaw than assa so how would your statement hold up?

[wind totem]

Learn how to play outlaw.

[tender fjord]

Straight in the feels

[indigo mulch]

Oh boyo.

[tender fjord]

But nah imma pass on that, I don’t like it

[wind totem]

Sure and that's fine.

but doesn't mean that it's not doing more damage

[indigo mulch]

I mean unless your chasing extremly high keys it generally don't matter what spec you play tbh >.>

[wind totem]

Again with this statement.

[tender fjord]

Person at the keyboard determines how much damage you do, not the optimised sim

[wind totem]

You are not doing solo content

[sick scarab]

lol

[wind totem]

you are playing with 4 other people.

[tender fjord]

You give me the impression you’d only play with fire mages and boomies

Which makes me nauseous

[wind totem]

Not at all.

[sick scarab]

well to be fair you can do 20 as assa also.. not optimap but doable

metaslaves are bad

[wind totem]

I reguraly invite shadow priests and warriors for example.

I've had 18s with enh shamans

Did a 19 with a SP.

[tender fjord]

In that case just open however you want when playing assa. Vanish into cloak

[wind totem]

See. Unlike you I actually want to play optimally.

[sick scarab]

optymally

[tender fjord]

Then play outlaw 😂

[wind totem]

Hence why I'm here seeking advice for the optimal opener.

[sick scarab]

lol

[indigo mulch]

Then go to the outlaw channel since that seams optimal.

😮

[wind totem]

I am playing outlaw but I'm also learning assassination for 9.0.5 since it's better for ST

[sick scarab]

you can play assa optimal

just not in meta

it doenst mean you do bad

cause ppl wanna go metacrap .. not understanding nothing

it is like for a 10+ ppl look for 1300 rio score

[indigo mulch]

lol

[tender fjord]

I saw that not PC message before it was deleted 😂😂

Shame

[wind totem]

Hate to burst your bubble but some of us like to play the best spec. If you prefer hindering your group/raid that's on you.

[sick scarab]

lol

[indigo mulch]

If you raid, why the fuck are you playing rogue?

[sick scarab]

hindering

[indigo mulch]

Lets just put it that way

[wind totem]

Because I don't sswitch classes

I'm a rogue player.

[indigo mulch]

If your not a dk/monk you really don't have a spot in CN.

[wind totem]

I do switch specs.

[sick scarab]

you dont hinder anyone excpet for first world kills

that is where it matters

[indigo mulch]

Thats my point with M+ aswell.

[weak copper]

@indigo mulch Are you trying to create an internet argument, by disagreeing on god knows what, after he asked for the best opener? The fuck is wrong with you

[tender fjord]

So you also prefer hindering your teammates 😂😂

[sick scarab]

all other is bullshit and wanna be Limit players

said that

[wind totem]

No. They have chosen to get a rogue in the raid. And I am determined to perform optimally.

[indigo mulch]

@weak copper I'm sorry father, i did think before replying to this fine human being.

[wind totem]

I'm not going to take advice from someone who doesn't even know the difference between your and you're.

[tender fjord]

What? He just points out the flaws in the argument?

Aight grammar war I’m out

[wind totem]

It's not a flaw in the argument though.

[weak copper]

@tender fjord why is there an argument in the first place? He asked for the optimal opener in the assassination section

[deft fractal]

can a admin plz kick this @wind totem

[wind totem]

You are just making up arguments so that you can be argumentative.

[sick scarab]

lol

[indigo mulch]

Let's just forget about it. 😮

[shrewd night]

[weak copper]

On another note, what's your guys thoughts about the upcoming legendary changes? Are you waiting with which legendary to craft, or are you sure about it already? Tell me which and why

[wind totem]

I already have crafted 3 legendaries and If i hadn't been lazy with torghast I could've had 4. I Have celerity and MA and now Zoldycks.

[odd heath]

Waiting with soul Ash for 9.0.5, then craft based on which is best, without bugs, etc

[wind totem]

By the time 9.0.5. is out I will have enough ash for another one if I need a new one.

[indigo mulch]

;p

[weak copper]

@odd heath that's where im at as well atm. because there is gonna be a best, just like always 😄

that might have been the wrong psycho btw. was like 7 different

[odd heath]

Yeah.. hoping that doomblade is working correctly to craft it tbh

[pure niche]

@tender fjord hey sry for bothering agin why ppl are not useing shiv in warcraftlogs !!!

[tender fjord]

Bug

[viral meadow]

Shiv is bugged in the logs. Doesn't show but people are using

[weak copper]

Tbh I wouldn't care if it was like 0.5% - 1% difference, but it just so rarely is..

[tender fjord]

They do use it but on blizz’s end it’s not properly registered

[pure niche]

aha thanks m8 😄

[tender fjord]

Np 🙂

[odd heath]

You can check shiv usage on debuffs taken by the enemy.. not optimal, but it's there

[tender fjord]

You could also assume that higher logs try to use it on CD

[hollow sleet]

Anyone know if niya herbs will still work when cttc gets added?

[tender fjord]

If that is the info you are trying to deduce

[spice spire]

Logic is, as long as slice and dice remains up, it will still proc

[normal mist]

Way too quiet here

[tender fjord]

Go on wow head sbs post says that doomblade now works with SBS on ptr. Anyone who is on PTR and can test that?

Seems like bull as multiple ppl reported that it didnt

[normal mist]

Sbs, rupture, garrote, doomblade dot... 20% envenoms coming wild!

Would be amazing tho

[inner granite]

Has the sbs Chang’s been implemented ?

[normal mist]

No

[slow marsh]

If they change sbs to work with doomblade and they fix doomblade bug that could actually be something

Still not sure if it'll beat venthyr though

[fiery mauve]

where on wowhead is that

[icy haven]

new to rogue, whats sbs again?

[dry hedge]

Serrated bone spike, necro ability

[icy haven]

ah okay

[paper bloom]

Hey fellas, I'm looking to try something out that's slower-paced than Outlaw; is Assa or Sub a better option for M+ right now?

[inner granite]

The new SBS change could actually be really good especially for sin, even without it benefitting doomblade. It’s going to be giving 1 additional combo point per use. Would that put it @ 4 combo points per use after the initial hit? Who wouldn’t want essentially free 4 CP envenoms

[subtle kiln]

because something else may give you more dmg, more burst or fit a better dmg profile

[shadow helm]

nice scam bro

theres no saying doomblade works with sbs

[royal cloak]

guys question: can you use the ambush from a blindside proc if you make a macro where you have ambush and mutilate in it with a stance condition?

[normal mist]

!bs

[prisma monolith]

Macroing Ambush to Mutilate only works with the use of a addon.
It comes with the downside that it often requires multiple key presss.
Suggested addon to use(Gnome Sequencer):http://tiny.cc/mxb6tz
Showcase Video: #assassination message

[normal mist]

I hope that helps

[royal cloak]

thanks!

btw, you guys think assa rogue will coem close to outlaw performance in m+ with 9.0.5?

[pale heart]

in m+ - really doubt it

[onyx wind]

No, assa is bad in m+

[normal mist]

This is my opinion, according to everything we talk in here: although we are just getting better and better, I doubt we can perform better than outlaw, even after 9.0.5. I believe we needed way more buffs/tweeks/updateds for that to happen

[royal cloak]

thats sad. kind of love the way assa plays in m+

[normal mist]

Then play it

[onyx wind]

You can still play it

A good assa player is still better than a bad outlaw player

[royal cloak]

i mean right now, i would gimp myself. simming 1000 dps lower than my outlaw

[normal mist]

It doesn't really matter, only if you are going for 16/17/18++

[cunning musk]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A6mRYd-OkI0

Ass in +15 test

[strange python]

Get that shit out of here

[normal mist]

Oh no

Poor infexious is back

[iron orchid]

don't listen to that guy too much

Come check my stream instead

[normal mist]

Links or didn't happen

[royal cloak]

í mean i do not plan to play 19 or above. but 16,17,18 would be the goal

[iron orchid]

https://raider.io/characters/eu/hyjal/Deïræ

You can do it @royal cloak

[royal cloak]

thats good to see

maybe i give it a try. would have enough soul ash for zoldyck rank 4

[cunning musk]

yeah, his DPS is not shabby at all

[spice spire]

This is the play 100%

[iron orchid]

if you plan to play sin in raid too, maybe I wouldn't craft zoldyck right now, and wait to see if there is more value to doomblade or dashing

[cunning musk]

Yeah, I am holding ash till after patch

till final sims are out

[subtle kiln]

they’re never final.

[royal cloak]

i know assa would be better for our sludgefist progression right now. but dont think i would play it decendly enough to play it in the progress

[cunning musk]

true that

[iron orchid]

Yeah i get that

[cunning musk]

its good to dust off the Ass rotations now, instead of waiting

[royal cloak]

i mean i have MA legi on rank 4. guess thats not too shabby if i would like to try it out in +15 keys

[royal cloak]

thats a very valid point

[iron orchid]

MA rank 4 is a solid pick for MM+ as sin right now, you can at least try it out

Many good sin players are using it in keys

@limber lion is a pretty big fan of it

And Zerocool played it on some of his best keys too iirc

[cunning musk]

yeah, agree MA is pretty legit, even for Mythic

[royal cloak]

thanks!

[cunning musk]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/rankings/26#class=Rogue&spec=Assassination

MA 2 min Burst window can be nuts if you do it right

I still suck at it lol

But I have seen some great players make it look broken

[limber lion]

Yeah, highly recommend trying it out!

[lament dove]

hm, now you make me try out MA in m+

although I have to get my renown up first, I'm at 15 now:D

[limber lion]

It's a lot of fun. You blast bosses and do solid dps on trash.

[spice spire]

MA can also pump in VERY short boss fights, as shown by @limber lion

Very being about two minutes. The burst is absolutely fucking nutty

[royal cloak]

are you still playing with first strike when you are NF while using MA? and do you still open with 3 garrotes?

[limber lion]

Yeah, that's why it's amazing on M+ bosses. They're rarely longer than that (might be on high tyrannical keys)

I did 3 keys and I was #1 dps on every boss.

[spice spire]

That’s pretty nutty actually

[cunning musk]

Depends, but a Garrote, Ambush, Ambush, Envenom, Ambush or variants of that depending on CP at moment, but its crazy

[spice spire]

Make me want to finish MA. Insane damage for AOE and bosses is pretty

[limber lion]

I was also #1 or #2 on overall, but then again I'm only doing +17 keys. There's plenty of players doing pushing higher with Assa already.

[iron orchid]

I'm still waiting to get my hands on 220+ weapons from pve content

[cunning musk]

Plus if you have all your dots up and going, during that window, anything on boss/mobs starts ticking for 100% CRIT

[limber lion]

I can't wait to see Assa everywhere

[royal cloak]

thats sick

[spice spire]

Mood. I did get the 213 from council last night so no more garbage 207s

[limber lion]

Here's a hot tip as well

[wary ice]

how much do you want MFD when runnin MA?

[iron orchid]

There are other priorities, and it loses a bit of value after 9.0.5, so I wouldn't recommend investing on it, but if you already crafted one, just play it

[limber lion]

If you boost, Zoldyck is the better choice

The fights are so much longer than they would be on a normal pug group.

[iron orchid]

That's a @limber lion question

But i guess MfD is stronger, especially in M+, when playing MA

[spice spire]

This would be legendary #3 for me. So it’s going to probably end up being DS or MA regardless

[limber lion]

I would 100% run it.

[wary ice]

Avg pull opener (3+) would look like, MFD->CT-> G->G->fok->rup?

[royal cloak]

guess mfD --> envenom-->fan of knives-->envenom

oh yeah right forgot CT

[wary ice]

on st i think thats right fwiw marcouh

Maybe Prepull mfd snD->mut->env->mut->env

but without vigor you probably choke there

[limber lion]

Even with MA/MFD, I still think gar > gar > gar is stronger

[iron orchid]

If you pull a M+ boss, you shouuld already have SnD up, so no need to pre-mfd

[limber lion]

Mfd > SnD precombat

[spice spire]

Triple garrote. A man of class.

[wary ice]

Also fair yeah

[wary ice]

Yeah i guess that makes sense too. would you finish at 3 there or fok for full

[lament dove]

does garrote crit and give 2 CPs with MA?

[limber lion]

Nah, the optimal opener on 4+ targets would be gar > gar > gar > gar > ct > sepsis > shiv > fok > rup

[wary ice]

Unempowered gar is surprising to me tbh

[limber lion]

Then you just Envenom and keep your bleeds up. Vanishing to refresh garrotes

Garrote is such a strong ability in itself. You want to have it on cooldown 24/7

[wary ice]

yeah thats fair

[limber lion]

Unless of course you're just hitting 1-2 targets.

[wary ice]

I think theres something to be said for g-g-g-ct-g though

since its still in the MA window

but honestly at that point we're probably looking at like 10dps difference

[limber lion]

Yeah, that would probably be worth it honestly. Or just using FoK then CT

I currently do 740 damage with FoK and 794 with 3cp CT

[wary ice]

For vanish + vendetta in st would you just vanish at full w/ shiv ->env->mfd->env->mut->env?

[limber lion]

You wanna have Shiv/Sepsis already on the target before you vanish

[wary ice]

yeah; Thats what i meant

[limber lion]

And you want to vanish when your sepsis is at 4s or less

[wary ice]

for the boom yeah?

[limber lion]

I just aim to have all bleeds/poisons up, sepsis at <4s, 4-5 combo points

Yeah

[wary ice]

I dont play nf lol so one less thing to juggle i guess

[limber lion]

Then vanish > env > mfd > env > muti > env

For triple Envenom in MA window

[limber lion]

Yeah for sure

But M+ is such a random place, there's really no right or wrong way to do things there.

[wary ice]

yeah

[limber lion]

Someone wants to go full ST for bosses/big targets? Go ahead

[wary ice]

MA + subt always is a feels bad to me though

[limber lion]

Someone wants to pad on overall and do less ST damage? Go ahead

[wary ice]

so iwas excited to hear you were having success with it

[pale heart]

garrotes on everybody though

[limber lion]

Yeah, that's the problem with MA. It's not giga on packs, but it is giga on bosses/funnel targets.

[wary ice]

Just wanted to see how it was working lol

[icy crater]

I did this in pvp and it pumps

[wary ice]

Side bar: when does CT out damage env (on initial hit)? - my baby math says 3 targets but that just feels very low

[cunning musk]

So I am going to ask a dumb question, but...I have been trying to understand the garrote x2 or x3 on target and how that works and does that require Subterfuge?

[wary ice]

the g-g-g opener requires Subterfuge yeah

[cunning musk]

I am kinda of new at rogue, only been playing about a year, been Elemental shaman for too many years before that

ok

hmm

[wary ice]

If thats what you'e asking

[cunning musk]

yeah, I was not aware you could stack that

[wary ice]

Subterfuge's 2 things is that it makes garrotes from stealth have no cd and also truck 80% harder

so getting 3 out during the window where u can still use stealth buffed stuff is generally very good

[cunning musk]

Ahh ok

That makes more senese

[wary ice]

Its also important to not refresh those G's in pandemic or you lose out on the damage buff

[cunning musk]

So let them fall of then

[wary ice]

Yeah

[cunning musk]

ok

[wary ice]

Notably; you can refresh any Garrote in pandemic if you vanish for it; since the new bleed will have the damage buff for the new full duration

but as a general rule of thumb let the subt garrotes fall off before applying new ones

[cunning musk]

ok that helps alot

appreciate that

[wary ice]

NP its a little wonky cause i think theres like 4 abilties left in the game that work like it

[cunning musk]

lol Yeah, that is what it was confusing me when I was reading on it

and I was like...wait what? lol

[limber lion]

Got the Sire ring

Had to trade it away

[shy dust]

Gz on CE

[outer pivot]

zoldyck on leg or boots?

[ornate lake]

Leggies

[spice spire]

Is that a CE sire papi?

[outer pivot]

great thx

is there a reason for it?

[unreal laurel]

It gives more stats

[ornate lake]

Yeah. "Major slots" like head chest and legs give more stats. So to make that item ilvl 235, is best basically.

And also ideal secondary stats through missives

[outer pivot]

ok, nice. thx for your help 🙂

[raven hollow]

Any advice on optimizing the Shiv window? Do I wait till I have full CP to shiv, >75% energy, both?

[iron orchid]

the best advice is : use it as soon as possible

as missing casts is a bigger loss than casting with a meh timing

If you can manage not to have to refresh bleeds during the window, that's a win

if you manage to pool some energy that's a win too

but never hold shiv for too long

[wind nacelle]

Friend of mine said pick Korayn for Zoldyck rogue, cuz WHT.
Am I missing something? Is it to just get some more damage in during the first 25% before you’ve to wait for your leggo to kick in later on?

[shadow helm]

wht doesnt have execute

[oblique flare]

WHT adds increased healing at 35%, not damage

[frozen jasper]

whats up im searching for a new wa set for assa to try it out in raid today

any recommendations ?

[wind nacelle]

I’m aware of that

The first 25% of boss hp gives you 10% extra damage which was apparently the way to go

But I’m doubting that will be good enough to pick korayn for that

(I ahould have been more specific)

[oblique flare]

it's good for aoe'ing trash, but bosses hp usually reach 75% quite fast, so i'd assume the 10% is rather negligible

plus the rest of the 75% you end up without any soulbind benefit, compared to for example niya

[wind nacelle]

Exactly

Burrs seemed to much to give up

Too much

[oblique flare]

niya at least also randomly procs the passive which nets you 25-50 or if your rng is good more mastery and hp

[wind nacelle]

Rngesus is not with me

[oblique flare]

and the last passive of korayn also sucks for any boss

first strike only procs once so eh

[wind nacelle]

I mean I could see why it would be slightly useful on Sire with the adds that spawn there

Huh? Doesn’t it proc again if you attack new adds? o.ô

[oblique flare]

yeah only on new adds, that's why i said sucks for boss

if the boss has no adds, no proc

[wind nacelle]

Yup

[high phoenix]

In m+ running zold + subterfuge you want wht because you’ll have as many as 6 empowered garrotes if you vanish

[slender trail]

it procs any time you attack a new add (before they attack you). so bosses with adds it can be good for. but careful not to fall into the "good for a phase that doesn't matter vs one that does" trap (ie sire P1 vs P3)

[high phoenix]

If running ma not as important but you still get value on CT which you should be running

Single target you run niya

[pale heart]

what's wht?

[untold nest]

First strike is amazing on mythic council, and also burrs suck on that boss

Cuz waiters keep proccing it

[burnt tartan]

Wild Hunt Tactics

[pale heart]

oh, the 10% dmg passive, ty

[raven hollow]

so for AoE do we spam CT, or just to reapply DoT?

[plain jewel]

i have 1770 soul ash rn after finishing torghast. think ill be able to get rank 3 dashing and rank 3 doomblade when patch goes live?

rank 4 i mean

[amber trench]

you need 5200 ash to make a r4 from scratch so you'll prob be 1k short if it comes out on the 16th, if it's the 23rd or later you should have enough if you do one or two soul ash missions

[tender fjord]

You gave to keep bleeds up for energy

You want to keep CT up as well

You won’t have the time to spam CT

[raven hollow]

I guess my question is, does CT completely replace Envenom in the rotation in AoE

[wary ice]

at 2 targets you just maintain the dot, at 4+ You would spam ct to finish assuming all trash is equal. at 3 targets I'm not positive. fairly certain CT outpaces in instant damage, but im not sure the weight of getting the envenom buff in small target counts like that.

CT doesnt give energy, also

[tender fjord]

Consensus in this disc seems to be no. Based on my napkin math, that @wary ice also refers to, I would think it might replace env at 4/5+

But don’t take my word for it at all

[raven hollow]

gotcha

[stoic needle]

If you want to optimize shiv, don't cast envenom until you're @ > 70% energy with 4 or 5 cp. If you do that you will naturally have lots of energy every time shiv comes up

[limber lion]

On 4-5 targets you don't have enough time to use Envenom anyway.

You spend all of your time putting down garrotes, building for rupture/ct and applying those.

When you have all of your bleeds up, there's one that's already about to drop

[raven hollow]

so get CT up asap, garrote and rupture everything possible

disregard envenom

[coarse vault]

Can anyone point me to a link/discussion of the best way to use sepsis (or if u have a brief run down of what I should use if during the buff window). Thanks!

[limber lion]

Pretty much. When the mobs are about to die, you obviously don't want to put up bleeds if you waste 10s of it. So at that point you'd just Envenom

[slender urchin]

If you start the quest to return to a previous covenant, does it have to be two back-to-back weeks? I plan to do the first return quest this week, then the final one the week that 905 comes

[limber lion]

Sync it with Vendetta (and Vanish if you use Master Assa)

If you miss a cast by doing that, use it on cooldown and sync the last Sepsis cast with the last Vendetta/Vanish window

[coarse vault]

Ok, so just to be clear, I want vendetta running for the DOT portion, and cast Vanish to make use of the buff portion for Garote (with MA)?

[limber lion]

You want to use Vanish when Sepsis has <4s left, so you get the big boom inside the MA window.

And yeah, you want to have Vendetta up for the whole duration of Sepsis

And Shiv as well

Ideally you cast them in this order:
Vendetta > Sepsis > Shiv

(Sepsis hits 4s)

Vanish

Just be careful not to lose out on the Shiv-empowerement during the MA window. So don't delay it too long.

[fleet anchor]

Personally I'd do it the other way around tbh

Sepsis/Shiv/Vendetta

Sepsis and Shiv are largely dead globals within Vendetta

[gentle gyro]

just managed to solo Mythic ToS

felt more of an achievement than anything in CN

xD

[plain jewel]

would u hold vanish in the opener to clip the last 4 sec of sepsis then?

[stoic needle]

I watched the infexious m+ video

HE SAYS TO DOUBLE GAROTTE ON SINGLE TARGET OPENERS

[fleet anchor]

Yes if you are using MA you definitely want to catch the final hit with Vanish

[wary ice]

You can do the first quest this week, the 2nd quest next week, and not hand in the quest until whenever you want to

[coarse vault]

does sepsis treat garote as stealth with Subterfuge?

[wary ice]

The gate is only the weekly reset its not an actual timing thing

[wary ice]

no sepsis doesnt give stealth benefits, just acess to the stealth bar

[limber lion]

Ah makes sense. I've just been using Vendetta prior to them because you usually spend the last 3ish seconds of Vendetta just meleeing, so I figured it's better to get Sepsis/Shiv inside Vendetta to have less slow melee-mutilate spam toward the end of Vendetta.

But that's just feelcrafting it, no clue if it's better or not kek

[stoic needle]

And he recommends poison Katar

[limber lion]

That's also assuming that the target has rupture on it already, def not using Vendetta if the target is missing rupture

[plain jewel]

poison katar pretty big if youre pullin like 10+ mobs i found

[limber lion]

Yeah we had a talk about the video earlier. His rotation is also flawed on aoe, not just st.

[fleet anchor]

Poisoned Katar seems pretty meh to me but then again most Assassination conduits are

FoK still hits like a wet noodle even with Katar 😦

[plain jewel]

wish they had echoing blades as a conduit. would be pretty cool

[fleet anchor]

Assassination is one of the few specs I think where they have very delineated ST-only and AoE-only Conduits which really sucks

[coarse vault]

One other question: when I have the sepsis buff (stealth bar) am I locked out of using Vanish?

[limber lion]

And even those pure ST and pure AOE conduits are shit.

[fleet anchor]

You are not, but you probably don't have Vanish on your stealth bar normally

And if you are using nostealth macros it will be a little screwed up

Since Sepsis still counts as being in a stealth stance

[limber lion]

Fire Mage has one of the most op conduits in the game and it's usable in any content.

[gentle gyro]

i remember this used to be th enorm

it no longer is?

[limber lion]

To add to this, I personally am against Stealth Bars. I would recommend just having normal, stationary bars for everything.

[stoic needle]

Yeah because we don't have shrouded suffocation anymore

[gentle gyro]

the extended dot is not worth the global?

[stoic needle]

No

[gentle gyro]

aight, need to get that out of my system then

it's hardwired

[limber lion]

Shadow Dance is an example of poor stealth-bar mechanic, where if you spam your Backstab/Shadowstrike keybind, you'll Backstab in Shadow Dance. Which you definitely don't want to do.

[spice spire]

After having to deal with night fae nonsense. I also take this stance now. It’s just easier to learn 4-8 extra buttons

[gentle gyro]

my stealth and normal bar look more or less similar

but e.g. vanish gets replaced by cheap shot

[coarse vault]

so what is the ideal button to use for my 1 "free" stealth cast during the sepsis buff?

Ambush?

[gentle gyro]

mutilate

[trim zinc]

u dont use it as sin

[spice spire]

^

[stoic needle]

Cheap shot or garotte for the silence in m+

[tacit forum]

Lol what? Just use the same bind for backstab and SS

[trim zinc]

does it procs subt?? i dont think so
i can be wrong tho

[stoic needle]

Nope just the silence

Still useful

[spice spire]

It doesn’t empower, it just silenced

[gentle gyro]

you don't get an enhanced garrote from it and ambush isn't really an upgrade over mutilate, so uh

[limber lion]

Exactly, and that causes you to use Backstab when you use Shadow Dance.

[tender fjord]

Bar lag will sometimes make you cast backstab instead of ss

[spice spire]

Which isnt nothing

[gentle gyro]

you don't, basically

[indigo mulch]

Or you can quad garrote in the opener

big

[tacit forum]

Never seen that happening

[trim zinc]

i do the same but it can fuck up cuz lag

[limber lion]

You need 2 separate keybinds or a macro for it, or you have to wait like 0.3s before pressing the BS/SS button

[trim zinc]

so u hit BS istead SS

[stoic needle]

Quad garotte on single target

[indigo mulch]

Big deepz

[tender fjord]

It’s something you’ll never notice unless analysing logs

[spice spire]

The uptime on that quad garrote will be GIGA

[tacit forum]

Crazy

[tender fjord]

It happens so little that I just accept it when playing sub

[gentle gyro]

https://i.imgur.com/UAeVTS0.png

[coarse vault]

What's the story on Ambush being worse than Mutilate during Sepsis window? Is it the extra crit chance?

[limber lion]

Muti attacks with 2 hands, which means you get twice the poison application and twice the combo points.

[tender fjord]

Less cp, less poison

[stoic needle]

Just run your own key man and don't accept anyone who hasnt done your key -1

[spice spire]

Ambush just doesn’t do a lot of damage.

[stoic needle]

That's the only way to avoid that

[gentle gyro]

i ran my key with guildies earlier

had to pug a healer though

which left midway

[limber lion]

Sepsis was better when it actually caused you to vanish.

[stoic needle]

[limber lion]

I was a bit salty when they removed it because people complained that they can't kill mobs in the open world because sepsis vanishes them

[stoic needle]

I pugged my key the other day and found a push group

[limber lion]

like ok

just don't use it then

[stoic needle]

It Gets Better

[coarse vault]

right, gotcha; the "instant poison" portion; ty!

[fleet anchor]

Sepsis was horrifically broken when it caused you to Vanish and would have been basically impossible to balance the other Covenants and Legendaries 😛

I mean it was fun

But also horrifically broken

[stoic needle]

Why do you say it would be impossible to balance the other covenants and legendaries

Whitelist ma, and give buffs to the other covenants so they do similar damage

Is that really that hard?

Well it is blizzard we're talking about here lmao

[spice spire]

See convoke the spirits****

[wary ice]

I mean if you have to warp everything around one thing

[fleet anchor]

Because there would be no way to balance:
a) The fact that Assassination has strong Vanish interactions and the other specs don't
b) The fact that multiple Legendaries trigger from Vanish (Shadowdust/Deathly Shadows/Master Assassin) that would have been massively inflated just for one Covenant

[limber lion]

Yeah, would have been similar to Druid's and Hunter's current covenant balance

Where you either play NF or you play a different class

[stoic needle]

I would have been fine if it just gave actual class stealth benefits like cto, subterfuge and find weakness/shadowstrike instead of being an actual vanish

[limber lion]

[spice spire]

Do you foresee a similar thing happening with Necro lord if the exsanguinate interaction continues?

[fleet anchor]

You either nerf down to the lowest common denominator or you just deal with NF being BiS

Was better for them to do what they did

The Exsanguinate interaction is 100% going away lol

[spice spire]

There’s 0 doubt in my mind. That’s too strong to remain

[limber lion]

It's legitimately broken.

[gusty mirage]

don't do this to me koji