assassination

[shadow helm]

garbo transmog

why u want a bug for a weapon bro

[icy ember]

ya i wonder why

[cyan echo]

they not gonna be next week amirite

[misty holly]

New venthyr ability sounds sick, but Ive seen complaints about their soulbinds

[cyan echo]

or whenever next patch comes out

[balmy condor]

I bet oshosi is rotting your brain

[misty holly]

probably hehe

[shadow helm]

wait till they make venth soulbinds bonkers in 9.1

[icy ember]

what is oshoshi

[shadow helm]

[balmy condor]

a dood

[icy ember]

what does he do

[balmy condor]

talk in this channel a lot

[cyan echo]

someone pls help my indecisive ass

[shadow helm]

more dots covenant

[misty holly]

If ur assassination go necro. If the dot goes live scaling with our mastery that is probably a solid +1 or +2 dps you get over other specs

[icy ember]

i really dislike nightfae transmogs so i'd be happy if something else was better

[shadow helm]

go venth

[balmy condor]

venthyr is better

[shadow helm]

necros shit too

[balmy condor]

we don't know how necro is but I'm cautiously optimistic

[slow marsh]

I must say

[balmy condor]

not that I would ever play that rotten ass covenant

[slow marsh]

Being venthyr has been pogger

I regret ever talking shit about the haste proc

[balmy condor]

I'm still softlocked

cause the first ticket I opened was closed by automatic response

[misty holly]

someone on rogue forums is spamming that bone spike won't refresh charge on death anymore. I dont see how they read that into the blue post, but if its true that would be a big blow for M+ usage

[balmy condor]

the second one was a GM saying "you're good bro" and I wasn't

so now we wait again

[slow marsh]

I mean venthyr is bis for m+ anyways

[shadow helm]

you still get a charge back when they die

[misty holly]

because of gargoyles?

[shadow helm]

bonesmith heimer gang

so you can put dots before u finally die

[misty holly]

I've been waiting for that moment when a group wipes and I finish off the kill with my 10 second afterlife

hasnt happened yet

[balmy condor]

nah, because soulbinds are fucking lit my dood

[tall sedge]

hello there, i'd like to ask about the state of rogues in this current patch/tier and next patch/tier will rogue be meta? is it good? always picked in dungeons? do you have utility? enough damage? good aoe/st ?
im a new rogue so ^^

[balmy condor]

but yeah also everyone and their mother is fae, so having a venthyr is pretty pog

[shadow helm]

ROGUE UTILITY IN RAIDS LMAOO

[balmy condor]

current, no, next patch maybe, we don't know cause it's still this patch. good? no, always picked? hardly ever. utility? no. damage? no. good aoe/st? no

[icy ember]

sadly rogue is a downgrade from BFA, probably cuz of raid design

[tall sedge]

what about m+?

[icy ember]

well downgrade from BFA as well

lol

[balmy condor]

also please try to not post the same thing everywhere

[shadow helm]

"shroud pls"

target cap hit melee more than ranged

bs

[misty holly]

I can do the entirety of that rescuing baby gromlings quests in stealth as a rogue. So it's pretty much worth it just for that.

imagine actually having to fight mobs to do your world quests lol

[manic harness]

Well

Rogues can do one thing for a raid no one else can

[balmy condor]

WARM THE BENCH?

[manic harness]

Something absolutely uniqur

[balmy condor]

[manic harness]

Something incredible

[shadow helm]

shroud at start

[manic harness]

even death knighta can't do it

SHROHD THE PREPULL

Shroud*

[slow marsh]

Reset sunking?

Also open 3 lockboxes while ready checking

[abstract talon]

since mechagnomes are athing we aren't even needed for that

[slow marsh]

You act like people play those abominations

[manic harness]

Alright sleep time boys

[abstract talon]

hides his mechagnome monk

[manic harness]

Yall have a good night

[slow marsh]

Same though

[balmy condor]

[shadow helm]

sad boys

[slow marsh]

Make sure you @ whisp if Necro will be bis tomorrow morning

[balmy condor]

I still won't know probably

nice one loser

[slow marsh]

Well I'll ask anyways

[balmy condor]

@limber lion

[limber lion]

Sad.

Got destroyed twice, once by Whispyr and once by the server

[balmy condor]

[limber lion]

[lament mica]

wat dps is the bis ST ass build doing?

[balmy condor]

!bis

[limber lion]

That's a bit broad. What content/which boss/how long of a fight?

[lament mica]

just h ighest possible dps out of the available gear on 5 min patchwerk

[balmy condor]

in 9.0.2, 6697

[lament mica]

ok ty

[balmy condor]

np

[finite hatch]

!bis

[lament mica]

im assuming 9.0.5 bumps it up at least like 300

[balmy condor]

gottem

[low girder]

!stats

[prisma monolith]

**Shadowlands: ** Haste > Versatility => Critical Strike => Mastery

[low girder]

aww

[balmy condor]

well I actually lied, cause some APL changes came in, so current is 6736, and that same profile on ptr (both night fae), is 6981

venthyr can hit 7050 probably

and that is all that I will do

because everything else is useless

:)

[fallow otter]

@balmy condor I'm getting taken behind the shed and shot in 9.0.5 and help. Bug fixes which nerfed dmg and they added bugs for fun that broke dmg aswell

[shy dust]

Monk reroller

[balmy condor]

monks in 2021

get fucked

[fallow otter]

Hahaha

[subtle tundra]

fotm reroll gang

[shy dust]

Nice scaling

[subtle tundra]

DONT SAY THAT WORD

[fallow otter]

Well my rogue is 220.ilvl

So not the end of the world

But still.... Debuff boy

[low girder]

yeah you got slapped into oblivion

[lament mica]

ok cool ty again

[balmy condor]

sin rogue rises, windwalker falls

the scales are balanced

in the end, we all return to where it started

[fallow otter]

Lol

[low girder]

and sub back in the dirt

[fallow otter]

Dooood

[balmy condor]

all back to where it belongs

cosmic balance achieved

[fallow otter]

Feelsbadman

[spice spire]

[faint harness]

prob doing a grimzyo this expansion

hardstuck shit spec

[honest breach]

is some1 here with around 225~ ilvl who would like to tell me his stat scaling, i need an comparison between rogue and other meele and my rogue is only 210 ilvl

[faint harness]

interesting

[balmy condor]

holy yikes my dude

[honest breach]

?

[balmy condor]

stat weight comparisons

gonna be a nope from me

[honest breach]

which the current state of rogue, nobody will be playing him, too low dmg, but i would like to compare scaling(best and worst would be finde) to get a grip for next content

in mythic raid ofc

[ornate gazelle]

rogue stat scaling is okay

[faint harness]

thats not how it works

[ornate gazelle]

not the best not the worst

[balmy condor]

yeah, that's troll as fuck

[honest breach]

why not ?

[ornate gazelle]

idk what you're asking tho

[faint harness]

there are too many things that goes into a specs strength

looking at secondaries wont cut it

[strange python]

[balmy condor]

cause that's not how stats work, not how scaling works, not how raids work, and not how group compositions work

so in essence

[honest breach]

baseline is different for every class, but stat scaling is the same

[balmy condor]

that's not how the game works

[honest breach]

rogue can only get a place in raid, when he does the most out of other meele, cuz most of them have utility

im just trying to get a grip on scaling

[balmy condor]

maybe if you're limit

[lament mica]

mastery can be weird for diff classes

[low girder]

and scaling doesn't matter at all because you have things like monk just get blasted in a patch

[balmy condor]

I'm telling you dude

[lament mica]

or ass getting buffed like 5 patches in a row

[low girder]

a scaling baseline isn't going to help anyone determine what's good next tier

[balmy condor]

just never click on the stat weights button in raidbots

ever again

[fallow otter]

😭

[balmy condor]

you'll be better for it

[strange python]

stats get blown up by borrowed power systems

[honest breach]

its not about the stat its about how good the class will scale with stats, u need to keep the baseline in mind, but i do that, i just need some comparison with stats

[strange python]

doesnt matter

[low prism]

!bis

[balmy condor]

that's not how that works

stop looking at stat weights

like actually forget that they exist

you can't compare specs like that

[ornate gazelle]

aironEU you're getting this response because your question is a nonstarter to most people here

[lament mica]

i think thats only really right to the extent certain classes scale well with all 4 of their 2ndaries so they tend to do better as xpacs go on, like destro/spreist

[strange python]

monk has never 'scaled poorly' they've just been shafted by blizz compared to other classes on borrowed power

[lament mica]

but in any given point that may not be the case

[balmy condor]

stop

oh my god

[honest breach]

most of the monks around 225~ have under 1,0 scaling if obv. that they will fall off

[faint harness]

most of the times spriest has been broken its because of bugs or something OP within the kit, not secondaries

[honest breach]

their baseline is high but scaling is bad

and other classes will rise

[strange python]

[balmy condor]

https://tenor.com/view/fail-train-subway-jump-gif-14634242

yo fuck this chat

[honest breach]

its like that every expansion

[balmy condor]

I'm gonna lose it

[strange python]

bye bye whispyr see u in outlaw

[low girder]

literally none of that matters because of the borrowed power systems, it hasn't been like that since legion lol

[strange python]

[ornate gazelle]

scaling isn't only related to stats tho, it relates to what abilities are are affected by which stats, etc @honest breach

[fallow otter]

https://www.peakofserenity.com/2021/01/03/windwalker-scaling-the-sky-thats-always-falling/

Some reading

[ornate gazelle]

so i'm not sure what your question really is

[trim zinc]

Not how thats works

[ornate gazelle]

^

[strange python]

u dont even need to read that

@fallow otter

just look at the table

thats all u need

[low girder]

...

no, read the rest of it

[balmy condor]

no

if you just look at the table

you're literally the worst fucking person

and I hate you

that table is from 2017

[lament mica]

i mean obviously there's a variety of factors but if u look at the history of the game there's a reason why the thought exists

[balmy condor]

and it's also kinda wrong

[faint harness]

first time i heard about scaling in this game as a serious thing, it was from babylonius himself

[balmy condor]

but that's not the point

[low girder]

Scaling problems are completely irrelevant in a game that has active balancing being done. The best example is that in Legion Windwalkers scaled worse with gear than we did in Battle for Azeroth; however, in Legion, Blizzard regularly rebalanced and checked balancing every tier and every patch, fine tuning things. In Battle for Azeroth, that attention was practically non-existent, so scaling was the law. Its impossible to predict how attentive Blizzard will be with balancing, but they have the power to make Scaling something that no one knows about or cares about again.

this is the important paragraph

read that

over and over again

[honest breach]

y its troll and i never said i only look at scalings, im doing my own research and im just asking for scaling, its so cringe guys u r raging about this

[faint harness]

"So, before I get started, I feel like I need to issue a slight apology, but not a big one. “Scaling” has become a big concern for people and bounced around the community like the Chicken Little topic it is; and I am largely to blame with that."

this too

:))

[balmy condor]

"research" would mean that you're going to get a conclusion that can help you make a decision

you're doomed from the start

[fallow otter]

Im not raging, I think education might feel like an attack but it's not

[balmy condor]

I'm starting to get there

[ornate gazelle]

some of the reaction to what you're saying @honest breach is because they answer questions that start from flawed logic all day every day. ignore scaling. play specs you enjoy playing and if you're in a competitive guild, try and be flexible and play whatever they'd prefer you to play. blizz balances every few months so trying to plan out whether or not you'll play a rogue spec based on stat scaling is ridiculous. so many factors go into how good rogue will be in a few months or a year and stat scaling isn't going to be the main one.

[honest breach]

and why is it bad, that i do my own decision. ppl always say" you should play want you want 🤮 " and now u guys wont even help when i make my own conclusion on factors i believe in ( and its not scaling only ffs )

[drifting cloud]

have you actually ever looked at gear

[fallow otter]

No that's not it

[grave cove]

!guide

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
RH: https://www.ravenholdt.net/guides/assassination-rogue-guide-shadowlands-raid-dps/
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide

[drifting cloud]

its not like you get insanely more secondaries with ilvl on armor

[balmy condor]

tell me

what is the difference you see

between these two images

[lament mica]

thats all true but there's still a numerical value to how well diff classes scale w/ stats and if he thinks its interesting that's up to him to decide lol no matter how dumb it might be

[brittle pawn]

crit > vers stat prio confirmed

what % do i want my crit to be before i get vers @stark whale ?

[balmy condor]

100%

if someone can correctly identify the difference between these two images

I will give you any scaling information you desire

[faint harness]

i think its better to lift the subject and try help as many as possible move away from the secondary stat obsession

[fallow otter]

Your idea is fine the method if using stat weights is not @honest breach

[honest breach]

now ur trolling, could be any class, any specc and like u said its not about scaling only

[brittle pawn]

first one is st, second aoe?

[balmy condor]

its a single spec

I'll give you a freebie

since you see haste at the bottom

[severe steppe]

Haste has higher prio than mastery in the 2nd one

[balmy condor]

I'll tell you that they're both sin

[severe steppe]

:^)

I win

[honest breach]

its m+ and raid gear i guess

[balmy condor]

wrong

[ornate gazelle]

one is light movement and the other patchwerk?

[balmy condor]

try again

wrong

[strange python]

its the same sim twice

[balmy condor]

wrong

[ornate gazelle]

well now i'm invested in this game

[strange python]

[low girder]

i have an idea but i don't want to spoil. and i didn't mean to jump but the idea of scaling is just entirely a useless thing to attach yourself to in order to make a character decision.

[severe steppe]

Different legendaries

[balmy condor]

wrong

[ornate gazelle]

one is with buffs and consumables other is not?

[balmy condor]

wrong

[strange python]

two different patches?

[balmy condor]

wrong

[drifting cloud]

different enchants?

[balmy condor]

wrong

[severe steppe]

One of them is after you've had some coffee

[ornate gazelle]

ohhh different ilvl gear sets?

[balmy condor]

wrong

[stiff prawn]

vigor vs DS

[balmy condor]

wrong

[honest breach]

could be anything an this point even talents

[faint harness]

you know what is a good thing when you want to decide what class to play, how fun it is

[balmy condor]

it's not talents

[ornate gazelle]

one is with alacrity the other without?

[drifting cloud]

its exsang

[balmy condor]

the gear is the same

[low girder]

the top one is venthyr?

[balmy condor]

it's 5 min patchwerk 1 target on both

[faint harness]

exsangerrrs

[balmy condor]

the top is fae, the bottom is venthyr

[severe steppe]

Different rotations?

Oh

[low girder]

ye

[severe steppe]

Lame that's less fun

[balmy condor]

you know what the difference in dps is

[drifting cloud]

damn I really learned alot

[balmy condor]

16

[severe steppe]

That's a lot

[faint harness]

yuge

[balmy condor]

barely out of margin of error

wearing the same fucking gear

and not one of those numbers is the same

[severe steppe]

Imagine if you were 16 dps lower than hitting a 100 parse

[low girder]

you could also just like

crit once

[lament mica]

wat about if u crit twice

[cyan echo]

im going venth tomorrow fuq it'

dont care

[severe steppe]

What if you do 16dps and crit twice

[lament mica]

do urself a favor and get a flag WA

[severe steppe]

@stark whale what's your thoughts on the new necro changes

[ornate gazelle]

wrong whispyr lol

[strange python]

that guy hates his life

accidentally pinged every day

[low girder]

wrong person but i believe he's refraining from napkin math atm

[severe steppe]

His own fault

Who names themselves after a famous rogue

[strange python]

nevermind it appears to be a girl how many people are named a variant of whisper in here

[balmy condor]

actually a different guy than the last guy who was pinged incorrectly in here

[strange python]

thats what I mean

[balmy condor]

pretty wild

[strange python]

https://griff.feen.us/ktspu2u7vyhptsbti6kl.png

[severe steppe]

But for real whysp, what's your thoughts on the necro change

[balmy condor]

I think necro has a lot of potential

[drifting cloud]

is good, wait for ptr

[balmy condor]

need to wait on sims

to really see

but it seems strong

[ornate gazelle]

necro renown mog easily makes up for any dps differrence so get at me

[severe steppe]

Yes, but do necro even have that good of soulbinds?

[cyan echo]

no

[ornate gazelle]

yes

[strange python]

I feel like they never intended to leave bone spike like this after trashing the OG version and were gonna fix it later

[balmy condor]

no, but a soulbind alone does not a covenant make

[faint harness]

i feel like its sad if both ER and sepsis will fall behind cus they have better soulbinds

[severe steppe]

Kinda does for fae lol

[low girder]

tell that to fae sub

[severe steppe]

Hahaha

Exactly

[cyan echo]

nice one yoda

[drifting cloud]

well its the other way around there

[balmy condor]

sepsis damage isn't actually that bad

tbh

[faint harness]

if ur sin

sure

but we are not all sin

[balmy condor]

have you seen necro damage on live

[severe steppe]

It isn't bad but burrrrrrs

[faint harness]

i played necro for like

[strange python]

sorta crazy seeing how much niya does for a rogue vs a hunter

a hunter in my group was asking me why I thought burrs did a lot of damage, for him its like 2% and for me it was closer to 7-8%

[faint harness]

2 weeks of heroic

[balmy condor]

last log I looked at that was necro barely scratched 1% total with sbs

[faint harness]

k sec

[severe steppe]

Sbs?

[balmy condor]

they're so rare

I have no clue

sbs might be sleeper

[ornate gazelle]

the initial hit, the dot, or both?

[severe steppe]

But sure what sbs is

[strange python]

yes if I sim necrolord on myself it legit deals comparable damage to touch of the grave which is the fucking undead passive

[ornate gazelle]

serrated bone spike

[balmy condor]

oh true, might've only remembered one

[severe steppe]

Ohhh

[faint harness]

this was from my own logs

early on

3.4%

on pure ST

[strange python]

I take it back that's worse than touch of the grave

[low girder]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/gM2FCKvwbAah1NGm#fight=1&type=damage-done&source=1

this guy has just over 2%

[shadow helm]

THATS NO ASASSSIN

[balmy condor]

word

[low girder]

on my shriekwing at 95 sepsis did 2.6% combined

[faint harness]

sepsis does the same

[strange python]

sepsis always deals 2-3% every time yea

[balmy condor]

kinda nuts

how little either does

tbh

but yeh I guess burrs burrs

[faint harness]

sbs is gonna be 4-5% right? with the change

[strange python]

burrs nutty

[faint harness]

"meaningful dmg"

[balmy condor]

something like that

[faint harness]

flag might be the biggest dam cov

[shadow helm]

BIG DAM?

[low girder]

fae might unironically be last for sub

we'll see lol

[faint harness]

soulbinds

[low girder]

the necro soulbinds are aight

[faint harness]

tru

[low girder]

they'll be better than fae imo

[balmy condor]

the way I'm reading the instant damage part makes me think that it's getting like 125 dps

[low girder]

for sub, idk for sin

[balmy condor]

just from that

[faint harness]

honestly if sbs is doing 2-3 times the dmg of backstab

at 15 energy

and double the cp gain

ye it could be good

[drifting cloud]

ye like isnt just he 300% huge, let alone the cps on top

[ornate gazelle]

it's a buff to the initial hit which is around 0.5% dps single target currently so it'll be like 1.5% after buff

[balmy condor]

the 300% is massive

[low girder]

sin i think it'll be close, sepsis is pretty aight for sin

[balmy condor]

it's doing like 40-45 dps according to sims

[low girder]

closer*

[drifting cloud]

oh its 200 behind rn on ptr

[balmy condor]

so +300%

is uh

quite a bit

[faint harness]

sin also gets mastery interaction with sbs

on both hits

instant + dot

[low girder]

i thought it was dot only

lmao

welp

[drifting cloud]

is heimir the one that gives main stat to people?

[faint harness]

no its "bugged" idk

apparently CT works the same way

[balmy condor]

it was instant only, but I think they fixed

[strange python]

if sbs ends up simming noticeably better I might swap, I'd like having new fleshcraft too

[low girder]

interesting

[ornate gazelle]

i'm necro and logged in and looked at the damage it does currently and with buff. goes from like a 685 damage hit to 2,055 damage hit

pretty damn good

[sharp falcon]

instant damage portion being affected by sin mastery is a bug

[balmy condor]

is it

[faint harness]

is it tho

CT has the same shit

blizzard probably cant keep them apart

[drifting cloud]

assa scaling from system push cant sleep at night already making posts on forums

[faint harness]

if its a bleed spell, its a bleed spell

[low girder]

maybe it's a bug in the same way mark of the crane persisting after death is a bug and we'll get a patch cycle with it lol

[balmy condor]

[faint harness]

its the new outlaw

why did they buff sin by 21% aura

actually insane

with CTTC in mind

or they simply dont understand how big of a dps increase it is

[balmy condor]

what's wrong with a little 25-30% buff every now and then push

[drifting cloud]

yeah the cttc change just makes no sense

[ornate gazelle]

to put in perspective, killing spree st is 8,734 damage over 2 seconds and with buffs using all three necro stacks in a row is about 6,200 dps over 3 seconds. i thought that was interesting

[drifting cloud]

when its what the same buff as the 5% aura was lol

[strange python]

yea I'm hopping on over to sin after the raid tier u guys are just cooler

and I dont like hitting buttons so much

[faint harness]

thats the stuff

get off the law juice asap

[balmy condor]

wow push hates law more than sin

[low girder]

have to stay on the law juice til SLG is dead

[balmy condor]

impressive

[faint harness]

ofc

[low girder]

then i can hop on the sin train

[drifting cloud]

when do you think im rekilling slg if I dont play outlaw

[shadow helm]

give raid buff to rogues

[drifting cloud]

maybe April

[balmy condor]

next expansion

[faint harness]

wdym

[drifting cloud]

well sire should die this week so farm begins, but im gonna be 8/10, gotta get that slg kill for vault one day

im just not gonna play otl

[faint harness]

i swear spec doesnt matter on slg

such a shit fight, that any spec decision actually goes out the window

[drifting cloud]

yeah but youre on farm for a month think were gonna be having fun on slg rekills

[strange python]

raid lead when he catches u asking priest for PI

[faint harness]

i've played sec tech and tornado sub on slg rekills so far

verynice

[stoic needle]

haste/mastery doomblade only simming 3 dps worse than haste/crit

[low girder]

oshosi no

[faint harness]

time to remake the items

full haste/mast

lets goo

[stoic needle]

https://tenor.com/view/jack-nicholson-yes-nod-agree-gif-9864414

[ornate gazelle]

i think outlaw on slg (purely for overall) is far and away the best rogue spec for slg

[stoic needle]

the largest envenoms in the west

[faint harness]

@balmy condor do you think blizzard fixing sbs with mastery made it work with doomblade too?

[ornate gazelle]

you can compete with mm hunters as outlaw on that fight

[low girder]

in all honesty the spec you play doesn't matter for the shield dmg

you don't do shit compared to good classes

[faint harness]

it literally doesnt matter anymore i think

[balmy condor]

honestly who fucking knows

[low girder]

you just help on skirmishers lol

[balmy condor]

it worked with exsang

[ornate gazelle]

i've said i'm only talking about overall damage

[strange python]

unintentional side effects

blizz sitting like

yep

btw when does that monk fix go out

is that 9.0.5

with the bug

[low girder]

with the patch yeah

[faint harness]

would test necro on PTR if i wasnt locked behind a weekly going back quest nice system for testing

[low girder]

i haven't even bothered getting ptr because of that

fae isn't changing and i cba farming renown for testing

[shadow helm]

monke

[faint harness]

its insane to me that you cant test things on the test realm

[ornate gazelle]

necro buff now is the burstiest cov ability right? what's the kyrian one hit for?

[faint harness]

flag is bursty

[strange python]

PTR should just let u sandbox

idk why its not like that

[faint harness]

one argument ive heard is that there are players that treat the PTR as a standalone game

actually guilds on those servers that unironically recruit ppl

and doing old raids

[strange python]

well like idk they could have some type of proving grounds-esque tool where you can just test shit

kinda like league of legends practice tool

yknow

[faint harness]

ye

[low girder]

the only idea that holds water for me is blizzard doesn't actually care about anything particular being tested outside of stability

there'll be a few venthyr and necros that come in and blizz will be like "oh, it works? no crashing? ability works like it should? cool, we're done"

[faint harness]

i'd hope not but yea

sounds plausible

[strange python]

that's most likely what goes on

[low girder]

PTR is way past design phase imo

[strange python]

using the league analogy again riot does the same shit, puts stuff on their beta server ignore feedback and push it live no matter what people say

outside very very very very rare instances

[faint harness]

thatmight also be because people have very bad opinions on game dev things

[limber lion]

Apparently Crimson Tempest applies poisons. That's new, didn't know that.

[low girder]

i'm sure they have QA on that tests, it's up to the managers at that point to get shit done

and a lot of the time they'll push it out anyway 'cause it's not gamebreaking

[stoic needle]

[balmy condor]

yeah, CT has an instant damage portion, applies poisons like any other instant damage hit

[balmy condor]

any nadjia complainers in the chat

[stoic needle]

1

[faint harness]

nadyia is sick

[stoic needle]

theotar is my boy

[low girder]

oh christ i forgot i'd have to go thrillseeker again fml

[limber lion]

Yeah makes sense, just thought it was a bit weird as it specifies the poison application on FoK but not on CT. Nor on Mutilate to be fair.

[low girder]

already annoying on DK lmao

[balmy condor]

TLTIPS

[limber lion]

Just kinda assumed that only FoK, Muti, Shiv and melee applied it. Well, good to know

[stoic needle]

i'm going full haste/mastery sin

fuck vers, all my homies hate vers

[low girder]

[strange python]

my hast stat is rly low right now idk if its gonna effect much when I swap

all gear will be replaced anyway

on new patch

[balmy condor]

why not full crit/mast, bigger envenoms, and you won't need the haste cause your mutilates will just give you a ton of cp every time

[strange python]

SL just shits out mastery gear like no ones business

[drifting cloud]

ye leather raid gear is dogshit

[low girder]

oh it says it right if you're actually sin

i'll give them benefit of the doubt then

[balmy condor]

First mistake

[drifting cloud]

and there what 1 neck without haste in the game rn (in pve)

[low girder]

TRUE

[strange python]

yep

its the neck from spires

crit/vers or w.e.

[low girder]

yeah i have it

the only pve neck without mastery

thanks blizzard

[drifting cloud]

oh right its mastery not haste

[low girder]

yeah both raid necks are heavy mastery

because fuck you that's why

[limber lion]

I have the neck from Huntsman with a socket. 55 haste / 159 mastery 🤮

[balmy condor]

I pulled a similar out of my vault

[strange python]

dude the vault gave me like 3 rings on tuesday

[balmy condor]

[strange python]

and I'm already full up on them

[low girder]

i haven't gotten a vault ring yet lmao

or weapon

[strange python]

for the first time since xpac start

[strange python]

I was a stygia boy

[low girder]

i need one badly for the non-outlaw specs

[limber lion]

bleh

[gentle gyro]

i am still scarred by the one time they overbuffed galio

[balmy condor]

[lament mica]

ur posting bis ass feral stuff

thats funny

[strange python]

no damage items no problem

[strange python]

100-0

[balmy condor]

[low girder]

progging slg with heroic weapons

[strange python]

avoidance

[lament mica]

jesus that's some fells bad shit

do u despise rbgs?

[balmy condor]

yeah but MORE MASTERY

[low girder]

welcome to the first rogue token being on council

i just don't give a shit tbh

i've gone this long

[stoic needle]

whispyr pvping

[drifting cloud]

same for both actually

[low girder]

2100 would take too long

[balmy condor]

not talking to me

[faint harness]

rbgs are fun

[drifting cloud]

its kinda hillariously low odds by now

[stoic needle]

oh

[faint harness]

did you count them? i've heard thats broken

[strange python]

I've been trying to ditch mastery since legit start of xpac, can't shake it since I'm not pvping

[lament mica]

ya rbgs are easy it just takes long to grind all the wy up

[low girder]

corrected myself, i WISH our first weapon was off huntsman

[balmy condor]

I've actually been getting more mastery

as time goes on

[strange python]

yep same

opposite thing happened

[gentle gyro]

https://i.imgur.com/7wJW4z3.png

ehhh

[trim zinc]

My 2 daggers r 207 ;-;

[lament mica]

[low girder]

my OH is 213

for the dagger specs

[balmy condor]

sir what

[drifting cloud]

eh I dont wanna, because its not like im doing 10 every week to give myself the best chance just live by rng die by rng, overall vault has been okay for me just funny 0 wep, 0 ring

[gentle gyro]

don't question me I don't have much choice when it comes to gearing

[low girder]

yeah that's where i'm at

no good trinkets either, though i guess 223 flayedwing isn't BAD

[balmy condor]

I feel it

[low girder]

but it's not a phial or a raid trinket

[balmy condor]

my best sin gear is 9% haste

[gentle gyro]

and let me be clear, I sim my gear like three times a day

[strange python]

oh is it really

[gentle gyro]

in the hopes it will tell me my dagger 10 ilvl lower without mastery is better

[strange python]

k i dont really feel bad about having low haste then

[gentle gyro]

but apparently it isn't

[strange python]

if ur doing good with it

[low girder]

same, but how much vers do you have

[balmy condor]

yeah secondaries are whatever

[gentle gyro]

https://i.imgur.com/ehgpKFi.png

[balmy condor]

10.93

[gentle gyro]

but I have this

[low girder]

yeah i have like 900 vers in sin gear

sub fucked me

[tender fjord]

SBS giving 3 cp on first hit if it’s a crit whilst doing shadowstrike lvls of dmg is pretty huge the more I think of it

[limber lion]

but i was told i need 34% mastery and 21% haste???? wtf

[drifting cloud]

yeah I went from 210 spires neck to 226 155 haste/mastery and its like 25 dps lmao, huge gains

[limber lion]

ever heard of breakpoints??

[tender fjord]

34% haste for 420dps increase confirmed

[balmy condor]

for the extra garrote tick, yes yes

[gentle gyro]

because i WONT GET FUCKING WEAPONS FROM ANYWHERE PLEASE BLIZZARD HAVE MERCY

[strange python]

get working on it bro... that 34% mastery isn't gonna farm itself

[stoic needle]

actually i misread, haste/mast and crit/mast are 15 dps worse than crit/haste for doomblade gloves

in my current gear at least

[low girder]

that's

kind of a lot

[balmy condor]

fuck the sims osh

[low girder]

for one piece

[stoic needle]

[balmy condor]

mastery stack

you do you boo

[faint harness]

@balmy condor i actually got tilted by this padder in the sub channel

"sAbOtAgE bRo?"

[tender fjord]

Whispyr put two stat weight images in this channel, just pick one of them and base all your gearing choices on them tbh

Simming is for noobs

[drifting cloud]

you clearly put haste/vers on doomblade for pvp

[low girder]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/k4sXKJ1ZfeLKKn6NeU8xGu

run this one through the stat weights

[faint harness]

wow thats cool dps

[balmy condor]

crit vers to the moon

[gentle gyro]

can I have that dps please

[balmy condor]

100% honest

[low girder]

yeah it's totally honest

definitely don't check the attack power

[gentle gyro]

time for my weekly BWL clear to not get Bloodfang pieces

[stoic needle]

envenom DPET goes from 7250 to 7421 from haste/crit to crit/mast doom gloves

[trim zinc]

I just dont have belt and legs (legs r from rag tho)

[balmy condor]

no secrets man

wtf

[strange python]

I fucked my leggo bc I didn't research what slot it was better in before making it not farming the ash to make another one I am sorry for this tragedy

[low girder]

whoops sorry

also those stat weights are hilarious

lmao

[tender fjord]

I’d pick the offhand in your vault ngl

[balmy condor]

I'll have to throw curveballs now with my troll sims

[low girder]

weapon is bad

just take stats

ilvl overrated

[balmy condor]

I'll change the profile to run exsang

and then give it like 800 haste

[lament mica]

thats that pvp shit. auto die at 30%

[balmy condor]

so it barely oversims current bis

and then claim exsang is giga

[trim zinc]

At least u have a 235 zold
I just have a 210 and gonna have to make a doomblade thats gonna be 210 again

[low girder]

didn't we try that last time and it never actually overtook alacrity

lol

[balmy condor]

it doesn't need to

[low girder]

true, it just needs to beat current

[balmy condor]

like watch this

hold on

[low girder]

try not to troll too hard tomorrow or friday or whenever SBS gets implemented lol

[balmy condor]

oh true

aight

[low girder]

hopefully they don't take too long to put it on ptr

[balmy condor]

we'll troll something else

hold on

[stoic needle]

i'm just gonna keep all of the mastery gear i get from now on and build a 2nd big dick envenom set

[low girder]

pvp set

one shot some war mode people

"wtf rogue is broken"

oh wait that already happens, nvm

[strange python]

what's war mode

[drifting cloud]

its the minigame

[low girder]

the thing i forget to turn on before i do my stygia dailies

[strange python]

Oh is that the one where u try to kill a druid and they flight form

[low girder]

2 more sockets to go

'cause i'd socket a neck and then suddenly get bis neck out of box

[tender fjord]

Going maw with war mode on is literally the most fun you can have as a rogue, cmv

[stoic needle]

i finally got a decent sun king parse

i went full M+ build with mfd ep ct and got a 91

[trim zinc]

I literally cant dmg on that fight

[stoic needle]

yeah you have to go full aoe build

and just dot everything

pad mode engaged

[balmy condor]

@low girder if ocarina is such a trash trinket, then why is it absolutely slamming these sims dude: https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/uwwDF95vFF97frS67HVqCs

(obviously a troll)

[drifting cloud]

nah you just have to speed kill the boss

[low girder]

lmao

[strange python]

im gonna be real honest I have more fun on warmode flying to stormwind and messing with people outside elwynn forest

[balmy condor]

god tier

[strange python]

ruin their friendly chat sessions

[balmy condor]

fuck dude

I wanted to actually get stuff done

but the last hour and a half has been "why can't I compare specs by stat weights" and general shit posting

[subtle tundra]

sleep > doing stuff

[faint harness]

we dont get stuff done

[low girder]

should've grabbed that 226 battery in my box 2 weeks ago\

[balmy condor]

here, let's be productive

https://forms.gle/3BddthJZwxBecGAB8

everyone add one of your favorite cloak/evasion/feints

[subtle tundra]

why isnt cheat death defensive as an option?

useful on sire

[balmy condor]

you don't have to ask "does cheat death work on this"

so that kinda ruins the point

[subtle tundra]

well my whole strategy on mythic sire last phase was to rely on having cheat death up

it worked

[balmy condor]

sounds sketch as hell

[subtle tundra]

i didnt know what else to do on the shattering pain + massacre + pizza slice overlap

so i decided to just play better everywhere else

[trim zinc]

I just want to know the future cuz i cant decide if i upgrade my 210zold or craft a doomblade and this 2 options as fae or venthyr
Imma cry

[balmy condor]

I would wait

and see what happens

[glossy gull]

!guide

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
RH: https://www.ravenholdt.net/guides/assassination-rogue-guide-shadowlands-raid-dps/
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide

[balmy condor]

cause doomblade is bugged, dashing and zoldyck suffer from an envenom bug, venthyr conduit is strong, and we have no idea how necro slots into any of it

[strange python]

[balmy condor]

blizzard could flick their wrist and change basically everything in the next 12 hours

[subtle tundra]

bugs 3 months into the patch, no way that would happen to a blizzard game

[trim zinc]

I can talking shit but a point i was thinking is
How much dps increase is gonna be "okay" to lose an execute

[balmy condor]

depends on the fight and your raid

[gentle gyro]

losing execute damage on xymox? who cares

losing execute on generals and denny? uh no ty

[trim zinc]

I just do hc for now
But doting both of em when execute phase comes is sick (talking abour generals)

[stoic needle]

seems like 3% dps is what's commonly been agreed to be a good amount of dps to consider using something else over zoldyck

cuz that's the difference between zold and doom/dashing iirc

i'm gonna try to get ksm this week/weekend as sin

besides bursting being annoying this seems to be a really good week for it

[iron orchid]

Wow just woke up and I get 3 pings from @balmy condor

[balmy condor]

they're not exciting pings

[stoic needle]

got my first 15 today and just missed 2 others by only a few seconds. if i try hard enough I think I can do it

[balmy condor]

[stoic needle]

my group gives me PI gonna get some sick overalls

[trim zinc]

I got my second one today
Good luck bud <3

[stoic needle]

pi with 6 subt garottes out

[trim zinc]

Imma just wait
Even tho i hate that wait part cuz i like to "plan" what imma do

[iron orchid]

Btw, no weapon in the vault @balmy condor

[balmy condor]

[iron orchid]

Twitch link on my profile should be ok now

[limber lion]

7.1k overall in +17

definitely not nw

with 2 spears

[iron orchid]

Next time, get an orb, tell you tank to make a big pack, and look at your overall

[balmy condor]

I had almost 11k on one of our NW's

we speared and orb'd all the trash

and just burned bosses

for luls

[stoic needle]

Good luck to you too man. This is the week!

[limber lion]

dayum. I asked the group where they wanted me to spear and they all just said "bosses". I suggested pulling big and then spearing all the trash, but that apparently wasn't an option

On a fortified week

[balmy condor]

yeah that's the normal thing to do

[limber lion]

I get it on Tyrannical, but it's so much wasted damage on fortified xd

[stoic needle]

Bosses fucking melt this week

[limber lion]

Yeah

[balmy condor]

you orb trash, spear 2nd boss, definitely spear third boss, and then hammers for shield on last boss

[stoic needle]

We killed globgrog before pride was over

[balmy condor]

isn't that plaguefall

[stoic needle]

Yes

[balmy condor]

oh

[stoic needle]

I just meant in general

[balmy condor]

yeah

[stoic needle]

Bosses melt this week

[balmy condor]

I was really confused for a second

I thought I was misrembering names

[stoic needle]

My group has a boomkin but he said to give the pi to me

It's wild

[near apex]

You actually know bosses names? For me is boss 1-4 in dungeon x

[lament mica]

isnt PI best on like UDK MM and aff?

[balmy condor]

most of the time, yeah

run enough keys and you start to remember them

[stoic needle]

We are probably one of the best pi targets outside of those

And our group doesn't have those unless we pug one

[lament mica]

facts, those are just super common so i was confused lol

[stoic needle]

So I basically get PI on CD

[lament mica]

tahts pog

[stoic needle]

Oh my God if we get a dos this week

In ardenweald

A huge pull with pi

https://tenor.com/view/nut-meme-anime-button-nut-button-gif-7455134

I'm gonna have to record my keys this week

[strange python]

can you easily shadowstep to the adds in mythic sire?

[balmy condor]

yeh

but coming back is difficult

[strange python]

well dont have to worry about that

[balmy condor]

but you can step to them np

there's a finesse conduit that increases step range as well

[strange python]

ye

gna switch to sin prematurely

since we wiped on 0 %

[iron orchid]

Today Imma stream the last 18 we miss (SD), and probably some attempts at 19s

[indigo mulch]

Or you can do it like me and jump to get into range of the add then realize SS is on cooldown and then explain to your raidleader why your an idiot 😦

[odd hazel]

sin big op next patch, big poggers

[indigo mulch]

Dunno if its op tho lol

DK, boomies, warlocks still there ;D

[odd hazel]

for real though, im very curious where the specs will land in the next 2 patches.

[indigo mulch]

I mean in the end, if its good or not for raiding depends on how the next raid look like tbh ;x

All depends on how the worldfirst race goes. The community have a habit of using the same classes as they do for proggresing ;X

[odd hazel]

were you happy with the buffs in 9.0.5? or were they meh?

[indigo mulch]

I'm okay with those. They look good. I mean sin is on top of the ST of all the rogue specs. ;o For now atleast.

[odd hazel]

in the next patch?

[indigo mulch]

9.0.5

[odd hazel]

interesting, maybe i'll give sin a try incase its worth swapping.

[indigo mulch]

Don't quote me on that tho, i could be wrong

You should bug whispyr he prob knows more than i do.

[odd hazel]

@balmy condor any truth to it?

[balmy condor]

any truth to who the fuck

[indigo mulch]

I've been a WW slave for the last tier i'm not in the loop

[balmy condor]

what

I haven't been paying any attention

[odd hazel]

I'm okay with those. They look good. I mean sin is on top of the ST of all the rogue specs. ;o For now atleast.

[balmy condor]

oh

[odd hazel]

for 9.0.5

[warm plover]

What buggs?

[balmy condor]

yeah

sin top single target spec in 9.0.5

[odd hazel]

sarcasm or?

[balmy condor]

doomblade bleed is affected by armor, envenom doesn't pandemic, which hurts dashing/zold, dashing works on poison bomb, I think that might be intended but no clue

[balmy condor]

no, you can check the sims yourself, there's links to some early comparisons in the pins

[odd hazel]

Nice~ Thanks

[late birch]

Are you saying sin will be best ST rogue spec or compared to other good ST classes it would be competitive?

[balmy condor]

rogue

[indigo mulch]

Rogues

lol

[late birch]

oh

so still at the bottom

kekw

[indigo mulch]

I doubt anyone gets even close to warlocks at this point tbh

[balmy condor]

there's actually no way to compare ptr sims effectively

some classes don't even support ptr sims if I remember correctly

and the ones that do have varying degrees of it

[lament mica]

wait wat i dont think lock ST is even that amazing

[indigo mulch]

No, but overall in CN they are the top dps.

[balmy condor]

I think that's arguable. Sin is looking like a top contender for melee dps

if we believe some of these numbers

[indigo mulch]

Along with boomies

[odd hazel]

im not sure where people get that rogues are bottom tier.

[balmy condor]

damage meters

mostly

[indigo mulch]

Only problem is that DK's still have AMZ. ;p

[odd hazel]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[balmy condor]

yeah we also have no utility, which doesn't help

[late birch]

rogue not the best raiding class

[cyan echo]

i love farming torghast to create 24 legendaries because i play all rogue specs

[lament mica]

pretty sure boomy is #1

but its a ton of padding anyway

like a dumb amount

[odd hazel]

i guess if you look in a secluded box and follow the meta squad.

but damage wise i believe we are fine.

[balmy condor]

compared to what

[indigo mulch]

There arent a lot of us who actually plays in top50 guilds. So worrying about it isent really worth it ;x

[odd hazel]

^

[balmy condor]

I mean you can not worry about it, and say accurate things at the same time

[lament mica]

o u literally said it already i looked away lol

[balmy condor]

I'm just curious what the reasoning is

[lament mica]

but its not like spriest mage ww far behind anyway

[balmy condor]

cause we're like

really low

[indigo mulch]

Wasent replying to you, it was just overall.

[lament mica]

i know im talking about overall

for ST its like uhh spriest and feral

ele

[balmy condor]

there's some things we're niche at

like sire execute, sun king shields as sub

[limber lion]

Boomkin/Hunter get a lot of their power from their covenant, which we don't.

[balmy condor]

and uh

that's it

[indigo mulch]

Yups.

Everything else we do, WW can do better pretty much 😦

[balmy condor]

but otherwise, I wouldn't really say we're doing okay

[indigo mulch]

I mean

if we're talking the 1%. Rogues arent really useful at all for CN.

But for the rest of us whos not pushing top100 its fine. 😒 Atleast thast my opinion.

[lament mica]

rogues would have the niche of much stronger ST execute, no?

that can be really valuable on stuff like sire

while monk is kinda cheeks on sire p3

[balmy condor]

yeh

[late birch]

"Shroud can now be used in combat, applies feint to everyone inside the AoE of shroud for the full duration of shroud", rogue viable again with a deal spell they've had 🙂

blizzard should higher me

hire*

[balmy condor]

so it's smoke bomb

[indigo mulch]

^

[limber lion]

With the envenom bug, it's a lot worse than it used to be. Haven't seen any updated sims for execute yet, but I doubt we're #1 still.

[amber flicker]

WW is non existent starting from 9.0.5

[indigo mulch]

I dunno

[pastel osprey]

not true

[balmy condor]

we weren't #1 to begin with, we were like tied for second

[indigo mulch]

WW still brings buffs.

Unless you have a brewmaster you need a WW monk for the buff.

[limber lion]

I thought we were #1 in patch 9.0.5. But fair enough

[indigo mulch]

Since noone ever runs memeweaver.

[balmy condor]

yeh idk, there's a lot of nonsense sims floating around. We can't really compare for 9.0.5 yet

but 9.0.2 atm we're not #1

[limber lion]

Yeah makes sense

[amber flicker]

well they have bad scaling alrdy... their highest secondary is 1.05.... buggy spec... their exploits r gone with mark of the crane, storm earth & fire, & cov ability... along with that mark is capped to 5 now and resets if target dies... they lost ST which they were bad at... also they have alot of new negative bugs when they were trying to fix their exploits... the spec was only good coz of the exploits... if WW is as bad as havoc, brewmaster will be brought

[lament mica]

its warrior and UDK then sin on currente patch?

[balmy condor]

oh no

[indigo mulch]

@amber flicker Exploit? lol Its been like that since forever. :p

[amber flicker]

i mean WW was bad in BFA

it was never like that

no

SEF was always buggy

either in a good way

or a bad way

[indigo mulch]

Okiedokie.

[odd hazel]

[indigo mulch]

I still don't know what leggo i should craft :c

[balmy condor]

welcome to the club

[indigo mulch]

Tell me what leggo i should craft so i can chase you with pitchforks and knifes when they end up murdering it 1 week after 9.0.5.

[lament mica]

wat leggos do u have?

[indigo mulch]

I've been a WW "main" since mythic started ;c

[balmy condor]

you mean

[indigo mulch]

I got bullied into playing WW by my guild.

[balmy condor]

exactly what happened with zold kinda?

[indigo mulch]

roflmao

exactly ;D

[low girder]

i'm less mad at you about zoldyck and more mad at blizzard about my finality]

[indigo mulch]

Its normal to shoot the messenger instead of the king. :>

[balmy condor]

I'm mad about finality too

I also crafted a 190 celerity for some fucking reason

[odd hazel]

fuck it, upgrade all to max

[balmy condor]

what soul ash

[limber lion]

Fucking same

[low girder]

i still have a bunch i want, i haven't even upgraded MA past r1 yet

[limber lion]

235 Finality and 190 celerity

[balmy condor]

and what gold for base items

[limber lion]

And 190 MA wit Crit/Versa

🤮

[low girder]

r4 finality, r4 celerity, r3 zoldyck, r1 MA

and like 3k dust banked

or i will whenever i do torghast this week

[lament mica]

u psycho wheres ur doomblades

[low girder]

that's what the 3k dust is banked for

[balmy condor]

doomblade wasn't worth it

probably still wouldn't be if they wouldn't have bugged envenom, and then buffed doomblade

[sage fern]

sorry to ask, but what is sin?

[low girder]

wonder if i should make a forum thread

[balmy condor]

assassination

the spec

[sage fern]

i see thx

does that hold for m+ as well?

[balmy condor]

nah outlaw still wins in m+

[sage fern]

I enjoy sub so much tbh. But seems like they do nothing with it in 9.0.5

[indigo mulch]

Honestly, sin isent even that bad for m+ tbh.

If your not doing +20 keys sin is just fine.

[sage fern]

I guess i'll try sin. I just never got used to outlaw. Doesn't feel "rouge"-like to me

[odd hazel]

its more of a bandit/pirate feeling

[sage fern]

hehe obviously

[indigo mulch]

I've seen some sins doing close 8k overall in m+

Thats respectable if you ask me.

[torpid spoke]

What is bug?

[lament mica]

prob 1 of those things where if u have a comp that compliments u, u can do well, but if ur with a fire mage who 1 shots packs its gonna be tough to get much done

[sage fern]

the hustle for new stats on my gear begins...

[balmy condor]

#assassination message

[low girder]

i still love that dashing works on poison bomb

such a random find

[indigo mulch]

Wait what

[low girder]

dashing procs off poison bomb procs

[torpid spoke]

ROFL show logs

[indigo mulch]

Yup, since i have m+ logs.

<_<

[torpid spoke]

Then ur pulling it out of ur ass

Get it

Assassin