assassination

[gentle gyro]

my rogue has like 20 days /played, 1.1k

[sleek sparrow]

I think my DH is about to be at 1.3 and my rogue is at like 1.15

Did 1 14 this week on the main and probly close to 20 on the DH

Can't wait till I start getting yelled at for slacking

[gentle gyro]

same actually

don't even have 4 on my main

but did like 20 on my alts

[rocky ruin]

are you guys doing key as sin or outlul?

[gentle gyro]

sin

[rocky ruin]

are your telling them that your are sin or just going in as sin

[eternal portal]

Sorry to be late but zoldyck is not bis anymore? Whats bis then? Dashing Scoundrel?

[indigo mulch]

Pins

[gentle gyro]

why would I tell them explicitly, I just do lol

[oblique flare]

only brainlets care about your spec

because they have no clue, so they think not outlaw is bad

[tender fjord]

This is setting yourself up for a kick

[oblique flare]

just join and don't say a word unless they ask

then say, yeah sure, you can go outlaw np

[tender fjord]

Never apologise in advance, you just show you doubt yourself

[oblique flare]

and change back

[thorny pond]

Just do the key. Like nobody complained this week when I carried boss DPS as lowest geared DPS in the group

[brisk forge]

Yea most pugs think u’re OL, i am at 1800 as sub and times to times they discover my true identity xD

[gentle gyro]

if people pay close enough attention to my spec then they likely also took a look at my profile

so they see i time my keys as sin, so uh, whatever

[rocky ruin]

@tender fjord so just take them by suprise

[tender fjord]

Lol that sounds more vietcong than it should be

Just do you mate

[gentle gyro]

if you're doing anything below like +20 your spec matters fuck all

[tender fjord]

Do keys where you carry your weight and have fun

Hopefully you have a guild and can do some pushing with ‘friends’ as well

That’s where most fun and growth is imo

But fun is subjective

[brisk forge]

U can do higher then 20 with ”bad” spec, its just ppl cant think for em self 😁

[tender fjord]

There is no need for ever pushing higher than 15 tbh, everything beyond is just testing your own limits

[rocky ruin]

which conduit LP or WPS?

[tender fjord]

And where you think they should be is up to you

[rocky ruin]

and zoldyck or MA?

[brisk forge]

Same need as getting to 15s lol. Becomes u like pushing for score same as pushing for higher ilvl.

[rustic thunder]

U go haste vers for MA right?

[indigo mulch]

I wouldnt craft a leggo until we're closer to 9.0.5 if i were you ;c

[gentle gyro]

^

i'm saving my ash for now

[tender fjord]

All those conduits and legendaries are good

[indigo mulch]

Im sitting at 7.4k atm

[tender fjord]

If you have none then I’d say craft one.

If your about to cap soul ash and have to gold, craft one

[gentle gyro]

i have a 235 zoldyck, good enough for all content, and then I'll see for next patch

[indigo mulch]

I'll craft zoldycks r1 and wait for 9.0.5 and i'll either doom or scundrel ;x

Since im about to cap anyway

[gentle gyro]

i have scoundrel r1 on a cloak and i refuse to upgrade it

[sleek sparrow]

Doesnt only 16 or higher give chances for 3 drops

[gentle gyro]

it does, but why would I want more loot i cannot use

you could give me 10 pieces of 210 loot, i still won't use it

[tender fjord]

When you’re doing 16’s I don’t think you really care about 210ilvl

[sleek sparrow]

Jokes on you

[onyx wind]

You can do 15-16's at 200 ilvl

But you dont really do m+ for gear anyway

[sleek sparrow]

^

[pliant roost]

With the new flag.. is it combo point spent on the target you flag'd or on any mob?

[onyx wind]

Since u can just do pvp :)

[tender fjord]

Only thing I welcomed was the IQD and Poxstorm for outlaw offspec

[spice spire]

Iirc it’s any mob within 40 yards during that window

[sleek sparrow]

One day I'll get a phial above 203 ilvl

[pliant roost]

Nice.. thx

[lament dove]

I think this whole weekly chest/vault system is rotten

because basically that's your only worthwhile upgrade...

so you just do your weekly number of instances and wait

[sleek sparrow]

Or you pvp

[lament dove]

well yeah

[plain thistle]

or mythic raid

[sleek sparrow]

Kek

Imagine getting drops from raid

But tbf gear at this point in the tier is just for flexing unless you're really behind

[plain thistle]

well, you have: pvp, vault, mythic raid and mythic raid BoE, when you add all of them together you really get a lot of gear

[pulsar sluice]

You guys ever had some micky d's and then all of a sudden the sauce spills over some of the keys

and one of those keys happens to be your mutilate key

[sleek sparrow]

Mythic raid boes

[tame lake]

Stop eating at your keyboard

[sleek sparrow]

Never heard of em

[plain thistle]

yup, I got all of them in the first month of the raid

just doing off raid trash clear

[pulsar sluice]

old habit im trying to break

[gentle gyro]

now that I think of it, i have like 1 piece of equipment from mythic CN

and i have like 40 bosskills by now

[sleek sparrow]

I've still never seen a skulkers wing on my rogue

[plain thistle]

I have 7 (4 BoEs + 3 normal drops)

[sleek sparrow]

Still don't have the belt from huntsman either

[plain thistle]

4 or 3 Boes, cant remember

[sleek sparrow]

I think all of my mythic gear is from trades

[plain thistle]

the only thing that never drops for us is the council weapon

[sleek sparrow]

Oh no

I got 1 mythic piece from my vault

But never from me actually looting it

Don't have a heraldry or dreadfire yet either

Real rough xpac for me for trinkets

[plain thistle]

maybe denath will die this week and I can get lucky with weapon or trinket

[strange python]

How does one do sunking as sin?

Doing mythic sk prog tonight and wanted to go sin instead of OL

[sleek sparrow]

Would just look at logs

See what the popular build is and ask your RL if they need your CDs for a shield or not

[native lynx]

@balmy condor is noone doing sims using doomblade instead of zold?

[gloomy fern]

just save vendetta for shields, shields is the only job for dps to burst down

[spice spire]

Check the pins for sims

[native lynx]

Sims assume zoldyck

thats why i asked

nvm mystlers dont

[spice spire]

Yeah, do you mean in comparison to all the other legendaries or like just sims that don’t use Zoldyck?

[native lynx]

I mean doomblade compared to zold

after 9.0.5 in st and aoe

[limber lion]

Look at the pins

Whispyr updated all sims for 9.0.5 earlier today.

[native lynx]

Single Target Profile - Full buffs, BS/MA/Vigor/Alac/PB and Zold

[limber lion]

Ah nevermind, I guess it's missing the legendary simulation

If you scroll up enough you'll find it. Probably from 6-8 hours ago

[spice spire]

For some reason it’s below fuu’s pin?

[limber lion]

Oh there it is

[spice spire]

Yeah very weird placement

But it’s there

[normal mist]

Probably because of edited?

[spice spire]

Maybe?

[normal mist]

Can't find another reason :P

[limber lion]

Whispyr removed all pins and re-pinned the old pins

[spice spire]

Icy

[limber lion]

Maybe he has a reason for leaving the Legendary sim at the bottom

But yeah as you can see Zoldy isn't as big boy as it was a few weeks ago

[sleek sparrow]

Isn't that because of the envenom pandemicing

[spice spire]

Good thing I’m already a Doomblade gamer

Yes

[fallow notch]

Guys im simming 5770 on Outlaw and 5340 on Sin with Zoldyck. Would I out dps Outlaw on p3 Sire or would Outlaw still win?

[native lynx]

depends how low you are before p3

it woulkd take a lot of catching up

[spice spire]

Well luckily there’s a way to sim the execute phase difference!

Like if you need the p2 damage clearly outlaw is good

[fallow notch]

That wouldnt matter right, if its only about p3

[gentle gyro]

considering the last 30% are the most important and difficult, it's easily better

[spice spire]

But if your guild consistently gets to p3 and just comes up short

[fallow notch]

How do you sim that?

[spice spire]

It’s time to assassinate brethren

Patchwerk execute

For 3 or 4 minutes (don’t think 3.5 is an option)

[fallow notch]

Cool thanks. I suppose we want Well Placed Steel as conduit in ST?

[spice spire]

That and LP are comparable but yeah WPS sims best

[fallow notch]

Ohh yeah I sim ALOT higher in execute than Outlaw. 6,3k over 5,7k

[inner granite]

@balmy condor Looking at the AoE sims you posted, is there any reason why Theotar was included over Nadija?

[subtle kiln]

@balmy condor told me not to craft doomblade so I did.

[daring pecan]

bro, I said that like 3 hours ago

[subtle kiln]

slow assa apm

[tribal marlin]

"release candidate" lol but SBS still bugg and doomblade as well

[daring pecan]

HAHAHA

[tribal marlin]

what a mess

[daring pecan]

alright you got me

[subtle kiln]

[native lynx]

dont talk about ti so they leave it. A lot of ww damage was because of bugs, and they just got fixed

neutered

[subtle kiln]

well doom is a negative bug

[tribal marlin]

and SBS is a game breaking bug

[subtle kiln]

game breaking don’t last.

it will be fixed

[spice spire]

After the herbs learning experience this morning, no big surprises me anymore

[normal mist]

Sbs+enx looks like a fun interaction...

[limber lion]

And Envenom 😢

[limber lion]

He just just included the best soulbinds for each covenant in the sims.

[silent fossil]

it’s 11 here now, where’s the news

[placid dawn]

if i sim with a soulbind from a different covenant does the sim also use the cov ability?

[limber lion]

Yes

[next solar]

FW toxin isn't scaled in assass is it

[limber lion]

Fw toxin?

[next solar]

the trinket

[stoic needle]

https://tenor.com/view/mad-mad-face-pissed-frustrated-frustration-gif-15931246

RIGHT DUNGEON WRONG TRINKET

[thorn turtle]

Haven’t had a phial drop since the 1st week of mythical being a thing

[iron orchid]

well, is that an upgrade tho ? x)

[stoic needle]

yeah

[iron orchid]

not that bad actually, but still kinda sad for the phial 😦

[stoic needle]

yeah its a 56 dps upgrade for me over stone legion heraldry which is pretty good

im just malding that i rolled the other poison trinket from plaguefall

[safe canopy]

how do you guys sim with zold?

[stoic needle]

all sims have an execute phase

[safe canopy]

o

[spice spire]

LMAO. Today’s the stygia day

[viscid coral]

Did you guys swaped to venthyr?

[spice spire]

I feel it in my bones

[robust sandal]

have you guys seen this PTR exsanguinate, bonespike combo xD

[spice spire]

Yes, it’s a bug that should be fixed more than likely

[robust sandal]

yeah, for sure

funny though

[north basin]

Ma leg no crit on trinket in 9.05 or 9.1?

Forgot

[iron orchid]

9.0.5

[north basin]

Fuck, i just started enjoying it with assa...

And its gone in a week

It was like boomkin level of burst this way...

[limber lion]

Yep

Removing trinket functionality from it sucks cock

I understood the NW weapons, don't understand trinkets.

[north basin]

Yea i just saw ur logs and started to play with it past 5 days. Very enjoyed.

Even forgot about outlaw and sub in mythic

[limber lion]

Yeah it's really fun honestly, that's the big thing.

[next solar]

is flag damage fixed in ptr yet?

[north basin]

Doing not so easy preparation+ rotation in very tiny window was quite satisfying.

And we wont get no refund i guess, snd autorefresh no match the loss

[honest lake]

F. I didnt know that,
So now I can,t use shriekwing trinket for a burst

[sly flume]

Is mark of the assasin leggy in a same way usefull as it is for outlaw for m+ ?

[young cypress]

Hey guys how bad would i be trolling if i roll a assasin rogue? I like them but are they any good?

[raw arrow]

hey guys, should I create Zoldyck or Dashing Scoundrel as my first leggo

[limber lion]

Depends on which content you do

[spice spire]

What content do you do?

Also sin rogues are fine

It’s not trolling too hard

[limber lion]

Mythic+ and mythic raid progression? Zoldyck.

[spice spire]

Not like at beginning of xpac

[tacit forum]

I played it on the start

I was rank one for 2 months on my realm

[spice spire]

I did too

[tacit forum]

It was me and myself competing

[spice spire]

Yeah I’m still 13 on io score with a less than 1k io

On MG

[tacit forum]

Things will be much better with cttc

Feels bad having to refresh snd on pillars some times

[shadow helm]

DOOMBLADE

[tepid grove]

!oh

[prisma monolith]

Mutilate requires a dagger in both hands, this makes using a non dagger weapons undesirable.

[spice spire]

Really bad in M+ though

[raw arrow]

Im doing Raid content , and want to push keys in m+

Im seeing in rankings that almost everyone using Zoldyck

Not sure if Dashing Scoundrel is worth it

[spice spire]

With buffs incoming, for ST I still think Doomblade is the play.
But with the fact in mind that you want raid content and keys, Zoldyck’s is still a really good piece to start with

[eager badger]

im kinda traumatized that they made tier set bonuses legendarys

atleast they could have made something interesting instead of copy like 80 %

[shadow helm]

set bonuses are coming back

not just in 9.1 tho

[raw arrow]

Thanks, I will look of the new changes that are coming to see if Doomblade its worth

[manic harness]

@raw arrow don't bother with Ds. Get doomblade or zold instead

[tame lake]

Doom boys we out here

[eager badger]

are there any new sims for the legendary buffs or is that not possible yet?

[spice spire]

In the pins it’s simming higher than intended, my logic is that for downtime on any boss, think shriekwing during shriek, mechanics on inerva, artificer, hungering. These are bosses where dashing will be at a lower value because you’ll be gaining energy away from the boss when you’ll already cap.

While Doomblade is 20 dps lower on patchwerk, it’ll be ticking during those downtime

[spice spire]

Pins are in weird order, it’s right below fuu’s shadowlands guide

[gleaming eagle]

anyone got link to patch notes

[eager badger]

ah thx for the pin tip

[spice spire]

No worries they’re in a weird order

[slow marsh]

Ok I need some advice I think

I can take 220 stone legion cape which is same ilvl but obvi better stats for me. right now I have mastery vers cape. Or I can take 226 crit/mastery legs for when I craft doomblade next week. I think I go for legs right?

[dawn root]

Sin wants versa/haste, sub wants versa/mastery

oops sorry was thinking for pvp

my bad

[tribal marlin]

Doomblade does not scale with mastery

it's a fixed dot that deal exactly 45% of the mutilate damage

It doesn't scale with any stats, it only scales on Mutilate damage

however it DOES scale with damage amp debuff such as Sinful revelation

so playing Doomblade doesn't change your stat priority basically

[waxen thunder]

So im just starting off gearing my rogue, Im gathering that itll be best to wait to craft my sin leggo?

[north basin]

About progression btw, when boss is at 30% u can say progression is 95% done. So dunno if zoldyk is best choice

Compare sub 30% denatrius pull vs 100%-30% pulls.

Count wise

[tribal marlin]

this heavily depends on the encounter you are progressing

[north basin]

Very few fights u have problems at 30% to zero

[stoic needle]

@tribal marlin do you know if the doomblade dot gets extra ticks from haste?

[north basin]

Only for top tier guilds maybe

[slow marsh]

You can craft a master assassin as an all around since it works for every spec and is pretty solid in dungeons

[tribal marlin]

No Doomblade dots scale with nothing

it's not hasted, it can't crit, it doesn't scale with mastery, nor vendetta nor nothing

it's 45% of Mutilate damage and it work like fire mage Ignite

The only things that increase Doomblade damage is Sinful revelation and Damage amps debuff which is mostlikely a bug

[stoic needle]

[waxen thunder]

@slow marsh Thanks!

[spice spire]

@slow marsh did you sim the cape? If it’s a fair upgrade I might run that. I think both options are fine though I’d say attempt to sim with 235 db on pants before I’d take them

[slow marsh]

I actually remembered you can enable all leggos and so I simmed that way. The current doomblade simmed ~200 dps higher with the pants so i just went for those. They will sit in bags for a week but they are 2nd best pants possible and at 226. Plus I get heroic stone legion every week so it's just a matter of time for that

[spice spire]

Yeah that’s definitely the play then good shit

I had same issue last week, I still run Doomblade on ST bosses like inerva and hungering for now

[ebon patio]

Hey guys, quick question, how behind is MA from dashing or zoldyck?

I have a 235 MA crafted and atm I can only craft another 190 lego, so maybe I should stick to MA for now? Talking about ST/Cleave situations

(Transitioning from law)

[stoic needle]

yeah if MA is your highest stick with that until you can craft a 235 of something else

[ebon patio]

Does it feel bad not having the energy regen from dashing?

[wide ridge]

For those night fae sin rogues here, which soulbind do you guys use for RBGs?

[limber lion]

DOOMBLADE IS SIM BAIT.

Just don't come yelling here when you suddenly do 100dps less than intended on sims.

[slow marsh]

Kora is okk but I just used pod so I could have a sepsis conduit

[wide ridge]

hmm

[stoic needle]

niya

[prisma monolith]

**Shadowlands: ** Haste > Versatility => Critical Strike => Mastery

[icy fjord]

!stats

[limber lion]

Until they fix Doomblade in-game or the apl in the sims, it's a huge bait.

Craft it at your own risk.

[slow marsh]

Do they know its a bug?

[limber lion]

They?

[tribal marlin]

if you refering to the armor bug, it's most likely something that is not intended and will be fixed

[slow marsh]

They blizzard

[tribal marlin]

Basically armor is reducing doomblade damage twice (one by reducing Mutilate damage, and another by reducing Doomblade dot damage)

[limber lion]

Blizzard employees have signed an NDA, so they cannot share anything like that until it's actually been implemented in the game or announced by Blizzars themselves.

Hopefully it gets fixed, but with the current PTR build being labeled as a launch candidate, I wouldn't count on it.

Envenom and SBS Exsang are also still bugged.

[shadow helm]

DOOMBLADE GANG

[slow marsh]

... I'm simply asking if they have confirmed that it's a known issue. That's nothing to do with ndas

[stoic needle]

i don't want to craft dashing

[shadow helm]

craft zoldyck then

[spice spire]

75 smh. It’s not bad for ST. But I’d only use it for purely ST.

[limber lion]

It's probably more, Whispyr just threw a random number that seemed convincing.

Guess it's not convincing enough with everyone going for it regardless.

[spice spire]

Even now, it performs well for me. So I think a buff would just be icing on the cake.

You definitely shouldn’t blindly do it.
I crafted because I needed to and my shoulders are still shit so I said, what the hell. And it’s fine

It’s not going to make you go from 7th in logs to 1st. But it’s a nice QoL for an interesting legendary

[oblique flare]

doesn't doomblade get the benefit of miam mange?

as the dot depends on your mut damage, and your mut damage gets amplified with MM for the garote

[limber lion]

Yes, but Flag conduit/WPS still sim higher

[oblique flare]

sadge

[spice spire]

That would affect it slightly, but yeah doesn’t make MM worth it

[subtle kiln]

don’t need to over exaggerate it being huge bait.

[devout lantern]

guys whats happen doomblade is bugged?

[subtle kiln]

it’s doing less dmg than intended. still good as is and getting stronger with 9.0.5

[devout lantern]

i wanna craft my first leggo to m+

any help?

[oblique flare]

go ma

[limber lion]

You literally have to because you have people complaining about spending soul ash every day. I wouldn't want to create a legendary that only gave me 70% of the power that was promised.

[oblique flare]

MA is basically the easiest and well rounded legendary applicable for all 3 specs

[limber lion]

Zoldyck for M+, but only works for Sin.

Yeah, MA is good for multi-specing.

[devout lantern]

i'm just playing like sin yet

[oblique flare]

yeah then go zoldyck

[devout lantern]

idk whats the diference between MA and zoldyack

zoldyck*

[oblique flare]

zoldyck basically increases your bleeds and poison damage for the enemies at 30% and below, which is basically passive

ma is 100% crit after leaving stealth for 4s

zoldyck if you don't want to worry at all

MA, if you want to blast and spam your abilities

[devout lantern]

Ma gonna change the rotation of 3 or + garrotes?

[safe totem]

anyone in the chattuh tried raiding as assa?

[oblique flare]

nah, you still start with 3 empowered garrotes

[limber lion]

Yes, it's good.

[oblique flare]

but you can FoK, Tempest, then vanish FoK Tempest, things like that

[subtle kiln]

have you actually played with it? canonball as a trinket is huge bait. doomblade dot is not functioning correctly. envenom is. all legos are craft at your own risk (looks at zoldyck’s current stock level📉).

accurate info is more valuable than exaggerated info

[devout lantern]

this look like nice

[tribal marlin]

I don't like Dashing

[wary ice]

zoldyk hodl :^(

[devout lantern]

!stats

[prisma monolith]

**Shadowlands: ** Haste > Versatility => Critical Strike => Mastery

[tribal marlin]

I won't say it's a "bait" because it DOES sim higher than Zoldyck but I need to show you something

[limber lion]

It is accurate info, that's the thing. It's not exaggerated whatsoever.

[tribal marlin]

Give me a moment

[limber lion]

It does **significantly **reduced damage currently and in 9.0.5.

[spice spire]

70% seems a bit extreme.
I’m still not on the dashing train, unsure if I’ll ever be

[tribal marlin]

So basically Dashing is increasing one of the very few damage source we have that is affected by downtime.

Understand that not only dots is a part of our downtime Damage, but also CP spender and finisher, because if you play Assa correctly, you are supposed to empty your energy bar before leaving melee in such a way that you basically minimize capping energy during downtime. (That's also why it's not recommended to pool too much energy).

So the only real source of damage that are completely negated by downtime for us Assa rogue are Melee and instant poison damage.

basically

[limber lion]

That 30% is coming from Whispyr and he was low-balling it.

[spice spire]

O

[tribal marlin]

this is Patchwerk
https://i.imgur.com/96RV5wx.png

[limber lion]

You're literally doubting every single comment that I say. Should I add "Whispyr said this by the way" after every reply?

[subtle kiln]

no just doubt whispyr. is easier.

[spice spire]

No, definitely not. You’re a better rogue than I for sure. But playing with it currently it seems fine, and I don’t see how a buff could lead it down the wrong path

[limber lion]

Exactly. He's the one simming, I'm the one spreading what he said.

[tribal marlin]

here

[spice spire]

I’m not doubting the info, just the degree stated. I’d you’re going verbatim, and he’s seeing raw numbers I can’t really argue with that?

[limber lion]

Nah, it wont. It'll of course make it better. But if you look at current PTR sims in the pins, you can see that Doomblade is already simming worse than DS on Single Target.

We don't have current sims for Doomblade listed anymore. All the sims are PTR sims.

But damn, that's interesting. That brings it so much closer.

[spice spire]

That’s interesting.

[tribal marlin]

Ofc it does but wait, that's heavy movement

https://i.imgur.com/lOoUhKM.png

[limber lion]

Wut, how does it sim 2% higher suddenly with NF

[tribal marlin]

NF become better as well

[spice spire]

What the fuck

That’s wild

[tribal marlin]

Because the more haste you have, the faster you cap energy during downtime

[strange python]

I just need to figure how how to optimize MA usage, since it sims higher that zoldy for me

[tribal marlin]

simply

So basically NF become stronger in this Heavy movement fight style, because it rely on Dots and Mastery from Niya Grove / Burrs

when Venthyr rely on having a lot of haste and spamming

[spice spire]

Interesting

[tribal marlin]

It doesn't mean that NF is better, but my point is that, when it comes to legendary crafting I don't like Dashing because it affect one of the only damage source we have that is completly negated by downtime

[limber lion]

Yeah. I want Doomblade to be good, so bad.

[tribal marlin]

such Heavy movement fight like this exists and are no mythes, the most notable one being N'Zoth

[native lynx]

burrs is super sus though

i wouldnt rely on the damage from sims

unless the target is absolutely never moving

[ornate raptor]

@tribal marlin u swapping to venthyr?

[spice spire]

My position on Doomblade is purely feelcraft. And I could pick up dashing and say fuck Doomblade, all my homies hate Doomblade. But the envenom numbers are nice on the Doomblade side

[gentle gyro]

can Zoldyck just remain the best one? okcooltyvm

[tacit forum]

Does anyone know if you can get weapon token from the vault?

[limber lion]

Yes you can.

[tacit forum]

I mean from CN

[limber lion]

There's no other kinds of weapon tokens, are there?

[tacit forum]

Ouch

Ok cool. Then I’m just an unlucky mtf.

[limber lion]

I've killed all bosses week 2 every week and have not seen a single weapon token either.

[spice spire]

I’ve yet to see a weapon role in CN, if that makes you feel any better

[limber lion]

Did get one on my alt, but I don't even play it anymore. Ugh.

[spice spire]

Seems to be a common theme

[tacit forum]

Same :/

My kinda lucky also is like today

Took me the whole exp to get the slg trinket today from vault

Just to drop it right after

😂

[tribal marlin]

probably idk yet

[subtle kiln]

so i think something is getting lost in the numbers. the dot portion of the lego is getting double dipped on by armor which puts the dot portion at ~70% effectiveness. the envenom portion works as intended and does so very well.

[shy dust]

Rogues aren’t brought for aoe we bring that ST

[gleaming eagle]

I still think

Sepsis Is still better in pvp

[limber lion]

You say that now but wait until you get one-shot by an assa rogue who uses the flag conduit and goes vendetta flag env mfd env on you

[gleaming eagle]

And sorry of shadow is garbage

Door*

[tribal marlin]

Yeah Whispyr's maths are correct

[limber lion]

Yeah it's a bit feelcrafty at the moment because the sim doesn't account for the numbers correctly. But it should be around 30% ish.

[gleaming eagle]

lol how, venthyr assa rogue would get kited

[gusty mirage]

It’s actually amazing how trash it is for melee lol

[spice spire]

I read the post above

[tribal marlin]

he didn't do some crazy stuff just take Mutilated Flesh dps on 5mn patchwerk sims and multiply by 0.3 to get the dps loss

[subtle kiln]

depends on how you judge/view the importance of the dot. i’m more concerned with the envenom portion of it

[stoic needle]

well the overall dps increase from doomblade is approximately 50% dot 50% envenom bonus damage

[pale crow]

Hey raidbot nightly is not to date for legendary ?

[spice spire]

It is not

[limber lion]

If you want to sim PTR legendaries, you can type ptr="1" at the top of your ADVANCED Sim

Doesn't work with top gear unfortunately.

So you have to do it all manually.

[pale crow]

Thanks for the tips 👍

So ptr=1 and nightly or weekly ?

[limber lion]

Use the nightly build when simming Advanced/PTR stuff.

[spice spire]

Also I was going to say I read the post above and that makes sense on 30% of the dot. As the dot is usually around 1.5-3% of total damage.
75 may be lowballing a bit though. But who knows - my initial recommendation for all around leggo will still probably be Zoldyck’s as it’s the most flexible viable legendary by far

[limber lion]

And tbh use the Nightly Build for everything else as well.

[pale crow]

Ok ty 👌

[limber lion]

Yeah. If they actually make Doomblade's effect a properly working bleed, it's going to be huge. Kinda hyped for it.

[spice spire]

That’s be some real king/queen shit

[short jungle]

hello fellow rogues. since yesterday i have this problem. tried to log out, exit and nothing. any ideas what might be the problem?

[gentle gyro]

I've seen holy / prot palas run around with ashbringer transmogs, is there some bug that lets you do that?

cause if so hoh boy am I gonna transmog some OL weapons

[limber lion]

They can cross-transmog weapons. It's been in the game since BFA 8.2 I think. Or something of the sort.

There's a simple way to do it as an Assa.

[gentle gyro]

the thing is they transmog it on different weapon types

[limber lion]

1. Change your spec to Outlaw
2. Transmog the weapons to whatever you want
3. Switch your spec back to Assa (but do not close the transmog window)
4. After switching, press "Transmog" again.

This way you can run around with Thunderfury-lookalikes as Assa.

But do not that the transmog is deceiving. I had trouble with them because I assumed my attack range was bigger than it actually was.

[stoic needle]

It looks weird as fuck mutilating with tf

[gentle gyro]

ow alright, cannot do that with the mount then

[limber lion]

You still have to stand really close.

Yes you can, I've done it with the mount.

[tribal marlin]

Well keep mind that Doomblade is not intended to be any regular dot. It's intended to be basically a +45% damage buff to mutilate (and the env composant).

But the devs wanted this 45% damage buff to take the form of a "residual dot" for whatever reason (could possibly be RP reason actually).

[burnt star]

U can swap soec while mounted?

[tribal marlin]

But don't consider Doomblade as a real dot

[burnt star]

Doesnt switching spec unmount u

Thats what he meant i think

[tribal marlin]

it's basically the exact same thing than "your mutilate do +45% damage"

[limber lion]

Yes it does, but the gnoblin still stays on the ground for like 5s allowing you to transmog even after dismounting him.

[limber lion]

Yeah, true.

I can post a Gif here showing how to tmog them if you want.

[gentle gyro]

nono i think i got it

gimme a sec to try it

once i change spec it greys out the "apply" button

ah wait

because it changes the weapons

[limber lion]

Worked for me.

https://gyazo.com/3db1a414a0f005aa4bb3e8900b4e4422

Here's my main hand as the artifact weapon.

[gentle gyro]

yeah yeah, i have negative iq atm. gimme a second

[limber lion]

Just gotta play around it. Try swapping weapons and transmogging both weapons independently.

[gentle gyro]

got it done

[limber lion]

Eyy

[gentle gyro]

it didn't work cause i have different sets for each spec and it swaps automatically

disabled it so the weapons stayed the same, et voilá

[limber lion]

Good shit

[gentle gyro]

https://i.imgur.com/IXyfPD9.png

eyyyy

sin rogue with rapiers, let's go

[pastel osprey]

wtf is this transmog 😄

[limber lion]

And with that you can now take it to #transmog to get annihilated.

It's a rough crowd there.

[gentle gyro]

it's the lfr version of Nighthold, except the boots cause I don't have them yet and the head because i dislike helmets that cover the entire head for rogues

the boots are normal version

[pastel osprey]

ye but nothing matches lol ^^

[gentle gyro]

with the normal version the head fits better

[north basin]

btw on a second thought, trinket could still crit regardless of ma nerf, during 4 sec of MA yes? but with our regular crit chance

[gentle gyro]

but this isn't #transmog , so yeah. quit criticising my stylistic choices, heathen

[limber lion]

Yes, they function normally with critical strike chance.

[north basin]

well at least this.

[gentle gyro]

https://i.imgur.com/b6pDZ9W.png
that'S what the set usually looks like, and yes, it doesn't match perfectly. something you will never notice actually playing the game

[gleaming eagle]

i prefer daggers

match the theme

[grave cove]

Dumb question, but how do I keep both the transmog and the talent screen open at the same time? One closes the other 😦

[iron orchid]

that's probably a matter of screen size

[grave cove]

Ah darn

[iron orchid]

maybe if you lower UI scale, you can manage to do it

[grave cove]

Oh lol that worked thx

[limber lion]

Ah, there's several addons that let you bind spec-changes to different buttons as keybindings or as buttons on your screen that you can press.

Aight, you got it to work

[gentle gyro]

you can also macro spec changes

[limber lion]

Yeah, that also works

[iron orchid]

That's a laptop user's stuggle ehe

[gentle gyro]

just had my best dps on denathrius yet, and I had EB and CT

watch me have less dps now with the right talents

[stoic needle]

I think ep ends up being better than bs eventually

[regal crag]

If I don't have the potion I should go sharpening stone, right?

[stoic needle]

Yep

I go sharpening stone/agi pot regardless because it's more consistent

[agile geode]

with 9.0.5 sludgefist would be an assassination fight instead of subtlety?

[spice spire]

乃ㄩㄒ　爪ㄚ　卩卂尺丂乇　乃尺ㄖㄒ卄乇尺

[regal crag]

Is wowhead the most up to date guide for sin

[spice spire]

Stone/agi pot is the correct play.. for someone who didn’t buy 500 oils

[stoic needle]

If sub doesn't get any buffs yes

If sub doesn't get any buffs before 9.5 it's pretty much a dead spec

Sadly

[iron orchid]

[pale crow]

I am lost, I have 3200 ashes and I have no legendary, I play assassination. I craft what legendary?

[spice spire]

What content do you play?

PvP? Keys? Raiding?

[pale crow]

pve , raid mm+

[bleak sun]

Overall zoldyck is fine

[gentle gyro]

ok nvm i did more dps with the right talents

[spice spire]

For both, Zoldyck is generally the right call since it covers both based fairly well

Your Doomblades and Dashing Scoundrel excel in ST but fall very short in aoe.
master Assassin is also worth a look

[stoic needle]

I don't like any rogue spec being in the dumpster tbh

[gentle gyro]

https://i.imgur.com/gJk2qFD.png
We take those

[spice spire]

But generally Zoldyck is great

Yooooo

[gentle gyro]

i want this ring on my main man

[spice spire]

We take those 161 Haste STONKS

[stoic needle]

I wish I could kill sire

[spice spire]

Prog tomorrow on heroic sire

Life is Spain without the S.

[stoic needle]

It's totally fine with a guild

Nearly Impossible in pugs

[pale crow]

ok je vais sur zoldyck 🙂

[gentle gyro]

we just killed him 2nd pull, and this isn't my main guild

[spice spire]

It’s actually a fairly easy fight. Just punishing

[pale crow]

ok I'm going on zoldyck 🙂*

[spice spire]

You’re good, I understood with my super basic French. Good luck friend 🙂

[pale crow]

ah ah ty :p

[iron orchid]

that's ma boi

[balmy condor]

@spice spire the legendary sim is where it was before, I just updated it, and re-pinned everything in the order that it was in

[spice spire]

Ahhhhhh I see

[spice spire]

I can understand 0 in speech though lmao. Definitely understood the English that was thrown in 😉

[gentle gyro]

https://i.imgur.com/4bjiEKi.png

[rigid snow]

Hey guys, which is the best legendary?

[spice spire]

What kind of content do you play? Mythics, raid, or PvP?

FUCK

[iron orchid]

I hope you saw this man

[spice spire]

I did. I was just jamming and skinning and I’d just hear it and at first I was like “oh it’s probably just similar sounding lmao” after the third I was like oh.

[iron orchid]

I took it down because I don't even know if meme-GIF posting is allowed but huh

[spice spire]

Another scuffed French key stream when 😡

[rigid snow]

@spice spire I play raid

[iron orchid]

Well tonight we are out helping guildies

So I can chill stream 14ish keys for weekly chests

[spice spire]

If just raid you have multiple options.
Single Target: Dashing Scoundrel and Doomblade
Aoe: Zoldyck’s and even master assassin is pretty good.

Most recommendations will push toward Zoldyck’s as it’s the most flexible, but it’s not quite the most powerful.

I’d recommend looking at the pins to get the full picture, but yeah. Those are kind of the four people will recommend currently

[stoic needle]

I'm gonna be so mad if they don't fix doomblade

[spice spire]

You should Deï! It was definitely a fun time

I enjoyed myself and learned a bit as always

[rigid snow]

Doomblade will be buffed in 9.0.5

It will be the best legendary then?

[pale crow]

whats wrong whith doomblade atm ?

[regal crag]

Damn why did I just make this Zoldyck legendary smh

[balmy condor]

The bleed is affected by armor

[spice spire]

Yes, but the sims are essentially showing without the error. That’s currently in game

Which means dashing is slightly ahead for ST only*****

[stoic needle]

Don't be upset that you made the 2nd best legendary lol

[balmy condor]

I have secret intel that it’s implemented in sims now so I might have to rerun it

[pale crow]

and normally this is not the case?
so it is less powerful than it should be?

[spice spire]

Secret intel

[rigid snow]

So i have to do dashing then?

[balmy condor]

Yes

[tribal marlin]

We can't say for sure that's it's bug

but it does not make sense

Since Mutilate is already affected by armor

[pale crow]

ok so the 15% more is equal the 30% actually en retail ?

[balmy condor]

Well dashing also has bugs

[spice spire]

You don’t have to do anything. Currently for ST dashing is simming higher, but it has been for most of the expansion but it’s kind of been consensus Zoldyck’s for the niche of execute and the ease of use

[tribal marlin]

It's 21% mutilate damage on live and 31.5% mutilate damage on ptr

basically

[stoic needle]

Oh?

[gentle gyro]

man I'm so angry at my own dps, there is so much optimisation potential

[rigid snow]

So? Im confused @balmy condor

[balmy condor]

Envenom doesn’t pandemic, that hurts dashing, but dashing also procs off of poison bomb, which could be intended, who knows

[fleet anchor]

I mean Doomblade is effectively a "ST-only" legendary probably more than Dashing tbh

At least Dashing does buff AoE crit chance of poisons, Doomblade really does nothing in AoE at all

[spice spire]

That’s very fair.

[dark vigil]

k

[tribal marlin]

Dashing is a shit legendary I wont recommend using it

I mean, I don't like it for the reason I explained earlier

[oblique flare]

dashing on aoe feels like energy overflow

[fleet anchor]

Sure but...

Doomblade does literal nothing so?

[stoic needle]

Considering you don't really envenom in aoe situations, and that you can tab mutilate to spread the doomblade dot I'd say both doomblade and dashing have equally poor aoe applications

[oblique flare]

legit can't get energy starved with dashing and bleeds up

[fleet anchor]

Like saying some of the value gets wasted

Still doesn't make it worse than something that had no value to begin with 😛

[stoic needle]

You don't cast envenom in aoe so saying that it has aoe value is kind of misleading

[woven onyx]

Will the new patch have any of you considering a new cov?

[tribal marlin]

For those who missed it : Dashing increase the damage of one of our only damage sources that is negated by downtime.

That's why I don't like it

[spice spire]

Doomblade is never the play aoe though. I could see a world without Zoldyck’s where you might run dashing but holy moly without giga regen, Doomblade is useless.

[tribal marlin]

its value is basically dependant on how much you can stick the boss

[fleet anchor]

I mean you still will use Envenom heavily in any sort of cleave situations or sub-5T AoE

[iron orchid]

It could grant more value to envenoming on 4-5ish targets ?

[fleet anchor]

So I'm not sure I follow

If we're talking about 5T AoE you are going to cast more Envenoms than Mutilates so...

[stoic needle]

In those situations you'd be tab mutilating as well, spreading the doomblade dot which is 50% of the damage contribution from doomblade

[fleet anchor]

I still am not sure I follow the logic here

[tribal marlin]

I can bet that you want to apply Env buff for Dashing to be effectives on FoK poison application

[balmy condor]

Don’t you play stiletto?

[tribal marlin]

I don't

[balmy condor]

Oh

[tribal marlin]

But it's a different spec

[stoic needle]

I don't usually have time to cast envenom in 5t situations

[balmy condor]

I heard the “dashing sucks cause uptime” from some sub regular

[gentle gyro]

Yep

[fleet anchor]

I haven't really seen any APL changes proven out to support this theory so I'm not sure I'd state it as fact.

[stoic needle]

I'm keeping up Ruptures and ct

[balmy condor]

But he uses stiletto every fight

Which confused me

[fleet anchor]

The idea that you'd be tab-Mutilating in 5T but also never casting Envenom sounds mega back-asswards to me, but I dunno lol

[stoic needle]

I'm more talking about 2-3 targets

And I guess it depends on what your definition of cleave and aoe is

I guess I interpreted it more loosely as anything over 1 target

[tribal marlin]

well who ever said this in sub channel has right ! Dashing value is affected by downtime where Doomblade value is way less affected (because you regen energy while in downtime).

[limber lion]

Just run Judgment of the Arbiter :')

[spice spire]

I’m going to say both options seem less than stellar for any amount of aoe. And I’d not argue for either’s viability

True the 6Head play is judgement

[stoic needle]

I'm on the maw rattle train tbh

[fleet anchor]

That seems... like a mega edge case

This still is like oddly biased by FOMO where some loss of value somehow makes the value that it has less. which is just not really the case. It either is better or it's not, just sim the value in AoE/DSlice/cleave and see how it shakes out.

This is the same logic that made people think Worldvein was bad because they occasionally had to step out of the buff even though it was like BiS for a lot of periods even with way lower uptime than every log averaged lol

Sometimes 80% of something is still better than 100% of something else

[balmy condor]

Koji with the fax no printer

[fleet anchor]

Not saying which will come out on top because we don't know if the armor stuff will be changed

But I just don't really see that much of a fundamental difference between the two in terms of AoE value. They are both essentially ST-focused legendaries.

If you are doing dungeons you'll probably just run MA leggo+Subterfuge 😛

[raw arrow]

After researching I think I will create Zoldyck

[tribal marlin]

I think it's a different case than WV here

[fleet anchor]

or Zold

[stoic needle]

That's what I was trying to say basically lol they're both pretty limited impact for aoe

[tribal marlin]

in the way downtime affect Dashing

It does only "reduce the poison damage amp value"

[solar flicker]

Or celerity

[tribal marlin]

it also reduce the value of the energy you can

[fleet anchor]

I mean you could also apply the same opportunity loss argument to Doomblade

And say adds are gonna die with the DoT before you get full value all the time

😛

[tribal marlin]

oh yes ofc, i'm not talking about the tab mut thing

i'm talking about ST here

[fleet anchor]

At the end of the day a lot of the value of Dashing is not the energy, it's the Crit increased on both Envenom and poisons

[gentle gyro]

Let's all simply go with TTB

[stoic needle]

Dashing increases envenom critical strike chance?

[fleet anchor]

Zoldyck or MA probably beats both in dungeons so it's kinda moot

[stoic needle]

I thought that envenom wasn't a poison

[fleet anchor]

Yes

Dashing's effect applies to Envenom for whatever reason

Including the initial cast

[gentle gyro]

Wait really

[balmy condor]

Yeh dashing is weird like that

[spice spire]

O

[tribal marlin]

I don't know it's possible that in the same case than WV, dashing is better even with downtime in consideration. I'm just relating the fact that some effect have a value that depends on downtime and some other have not (or less)

[stoic needle]

If dashing works on envenom itself then zoldyck should work on envenom too

[balmy condor]

I was under that assumption as well until I ran a couple sims and the envenom crit was crazy high

[gentle gyro]

Zoldycks gives something no other legy gives, a niche. Executem

[balmy condor]

Jank fucking game man

[fleet anchor]

You act like anything Blizzard does surrounding poisons makes any sense

Zoldyck/Dashing/Shiv/Mastery all have their own completely different rules about what a "poison" is lol

Not a single one of them matches

[spice spire]

LMAO

[gentle gyro]

I also like how DS says 'poisonS', plural

[raw arrow]

Please elaborate @fleet anchor

[gentle gyro]

Which other poison can crit

[spice spire]

This is the second thing that makes me hate the logic of this game lolol - today
Fuck Niya herbs

[tribal marlin]

https://i.imgur.com/fWIhvM7.png

heavy movement sims

[fleet anchor]

Armor fix isn't in yet

iirc

[tribal marlin]

but both leggo are equal in patchwerk

[balmy condor]

Probably next nightly I assume

Whenever that is

[stoic needle]

Sorry I forgot they're a small indie company

[stoic needle]

Wound poison

[limber lion]

It's full on spaghetti at this point. Brb, gonna go afk in Oribos with my soothing darkness talent as assa and enjoy my herbs whilst I afk

[spice spire]

I hate this so much LMAO

[fleet anchor]

Shiv affects: DP/Wound/Envenom/Poison Bomb/Sepsis
Mastery affects: DP/Wound/Poison Bomb/Envenom
Zoldyck affects: DP/Wound/Poison Bomb

[stoic needle]

It's wild to me that your passive regeneration counts as being the target of a heal

[spice spire]

Oh no

It doesn’t osh

The answer is apparently much much more weird

[polar cape]

Oh i tough zoldyck worked with sepsis

[spice spire]

As to why it procs a ton

[stoic needle]

?

[fleet anchor]

It's just because it's set up as a periodic heal, not regen

It's basically just a HoT, which is does proc from

Otherwise it wouldn't work for normal healer HoTs

[spice spire]

I’ll respond to the conversation earlier, but holy fuck it’s a weird hurdle. And I wish I didn’t know it.

Wait mystler said something different this am iirc

[fleet anchor]

It doesn't work on leeching effects though, including stuff like Bloodfang

[stoic needle]

So every character's passive regen is a hot

[surreal torrent]

no

[fleet anchor]

No just Rogues

[steep hamlet]

with 20% haste should i be running deeper strat?

or is energy regen really that bad without it

[fleet anchor]

Because we are 🍝

[stoic needle]

[balmy condor]

Basically the “out of combat healing”that we thought was proccing it, is actually just the heal from stealth talent from subtlety

And the fact that it exists on sub, is enough to proc it during stealth for us

[stoic needle]

But every spec gets it....?

[surreal torrent]

#assassination message

[stoic needle]

[fleet anchor]

The more questionable aspect is that it procs from a heal of a value of 0

[surreal torrent]

before anyone says anything else, reread from here, lol

we've been through this

[balmy condor]

Yeah

[spice spire]

Oh shit

[fleet anchor]

Which is why it works with SnD even without Recuperator plugged in as well

But even if they fixed it, I expect most Rogues run Recuperator in PvE anyway

[spice spire]

Yeah this absolutely blew my mind this morning

[stoic needle]

Wow

[prisma yoke]

holy shit ... will recuperator even work with cut to the chase?

[stoic needle]

This game really is coded on hopes and prayers huh

[balmy condor]

Yeah it’s so much worse than we thought

[balmy condor]

Of course

[stoic needle]

So other classes don't get this herbs uptime

[prisma yoke]

i thought of recup being tied to an active SnD cast and not to the buff effect

[spice spire]

After today idk if it’s even coded with that

[balmy condor]

We’re talking about herbs proccing

[prisma yoke]

yes and i am talking about the conduit

[surreal torrent]

no, recuperator is just a periodic effect on SnD, no separate thing. having the conduit basically sets the heal from 0 to X

[balmy condor]

^

[prisma yoke]

okay

[surreal torrent]

the fact that it says a duration on the conduit is misleading

[prisma yoke]

yes :D

[gentle gyro]

Wasnt recu just 1% max hp/s

[surreal torrent]

depends on rank yeah, but it sets a value for a tick every 2s

[uneven swallow]

Is it possible to sim horde races with ptr changes? Seems need to go venthyr and I need to check is troll or orc will be the best choice in theory. I don't know is too many haste is good for assa venthyr... what do you think? yes, i know that this is minmaks and the choice is not critical, but i really want to try something another than NF vulpera )))

[worn path]

Any insight if herbs will be siming higher? I’m assuming this isn’t in the latest sim update

[surreal torrent]

it is. herbs has been implemented this way since SL launch

[balmy condor]

It’s simming like it would in game

[balmy condor]

copy=orc
race=orc

Should do the trick, put that under your import in an advanced sim, and just make more copies, with the races you want to compare

[limber lion]

What you can do is copy/paste your Simc in the Advanced Sim like 10 times in a row and change each of the race values to different races. I think. I'm terrible at sims so could very well be wrong.

[split veldt]

finally over 6k with the 226 vault dagger and 235 pants

[limber lion]

Okay Whispyr saves the day

[limber lion]

Grats! Big boy numbers.

[spice spire]

What a name but also grats my dude

[fleet anchor]

Herbs has simmed like this for a very long time. It's always been relatively strong for AoE.

[split veldt]

[balmy condor]

Giga

[uneven swallow]

thanks, and how to enable the ptr changes for this sim?

[uneven swallow]

also thanks for you ))

[balmy condor]

ptr=1 all the way at the top

[stoic needle]

I'm at 5.85k now. I could break 6 but I'm too lazy to pvp to 1800

[uneven swallow]

got it, thanks!

[limber lion]

I just played Sub with MA in the beginning of the expansion and abused that to get to 1800. Don't think I could get there anymore honestly

[split veldt]

thats what i hate the most about this xpac, i spent weeks on pvping to 1800 instead of M+, my much preferred content, i hate pvp

[fleet anchor]

Yeah I broke 6k on my Assassination setup with the Sepsis APL changes but kinda blunted by the fact that my Outlaw setup is like.. 400 DPS higher atm lol

[stoic needle]

It's such a drag

I actually enjoy pvping but I don't enjoy pugging and I don't enjoy the PvP balance meta

[limber lion]

I actually sim more on my assa than on my outlaw, but was still forced to play Outlaw on SLG

[fleet anchor]

If I weren't using it for Sire, I'd probably definitely still have Assassination shelved until the patch

[split veldt]

i had to grind conquest with RBG's, that was fun at least, but gridning 2's for raiting was aids

but was worth it, i was wearing 6 pieces of 220 pvp gear for a long time

[stoic needle]

Yeah I refuse to do arena atm

[split veldt]

especially when i was outlaw

[stoic needle]

But climbing in rbgs can be kinda hit or miss

[spice spire]

Koji just using sin for its sweet, sweet execute damage

[limber lion]

I think if you can find a group to do it with, you'll hit 1800 in no time.

[split veldt]

yeah i got to 1650ish just with yolo rbg's for conquest

[limber lion]

I've had several guildies get to 2100-2400 just from RBG's. And they're definitely no god-tier players let me tell you.

[stoic needle]

Yeah I can do it, just lazy

[limber lion]

Lmao fair enough

[balmy condor]

Wait until you hear that he does the havoc module as well

Wait wrong ping

[stoic needle]

Irl stuff getting in the way

Classic raiding definitely getting in the way

[limber lion]

Havoc

[stoic needle]

If I didn't play classic I could get to 2200 for sure

[spice spire]

Classic raiding naxx

[stoic needle]

But I'm trying to help my classic guild kill KT and sapphiron

[limber lion]

I never even managed to get to level 60 in classic. I think I stopped at around 42 or something

I just... couldn't do it.

I didn't have it in me

[balmy condor]

I got to like 15 and wanted to neck myself

[spice spire]

Just started playing for the first time. Level 11, it’s a rough life.

[limber lion]

Yeah it was awful

[fallow notch]

Yeah finally got Curve! Switched to Sin for P3. Im glad i dealt the final blow because otherwise i would have felt so useless with that Abyssmal P1 and 2 dmg

[balmy condor]

Gratz

[split veldt]

i quit classic after naxx prog was done, i played it since launch, im so tired of fucking world buffs lmao

[spice spire]

Grats!

[limber lion]

Grats! Don't look at p1 damage honestly, it's really irrelevant.

[stoic needle]

Classic is fun when you have a good guild

[spice spire]

Imagine holding dps

[stoic needle]

But yes world buffs are really fucking old now and I'm out as soon as we kill kt

[fallow notch]

I did Almost 100k more dmg in p3 than the second dps haha

[limber lion]

Now imagine if Envenom actually worked properly

The stonks

Who did the execution-sims we had rotating around here at some point?

[split veldt]

im tired of the AQ and naxx trash too, i wanna kill myself

[fallow notch]

I did 765k dmg in p3. Is that decent? Still felt like I played terrible

[split veldt]

wait, whats wrong with envemon

[balmy condor]

Haste + crit/vers

[limber lion]

Yeah that's decent. What matters is that you got the curve

[balmy condor]

If you did more than the rest of your guild, that’s decent enough

:P

[limber lion]

The Envenom buff doesn't pandemic.

[fallow notch]

Yeah True. Just kinda want to justify playing Sin with terrible gear and no practice haha

[split veldt]

oh word

[fleet anchor]

👀

[balmy condor]

Oh did fuu let you know the jank that we found yesterday btw

[fleet anchor]

About the Shiv thing with no Covenant?

[balmy condor]

Yeh

[fleet anchor]

Yeah he mentioned it.

[balmy condor]

I think it was a problem with vanish as well

[fleet anchor]

It was just the Vendetta conditional that was added

[stoic needle]

That was me. We are the best execute damage in the game now but idk if the envenom pandemic thing changed that

[fleet anchor]

It didn't have a case for covenant=none

[balmy condor]

Oh I see

Thought it was something like that

[fleet anchor]

It should be fixed now

[limber lion]

Yeah I'm thinking that it probably did. It reduced Zoldyck's value by quite a large margin as well.

[balmy condor]

tyty

[fleet anchor]

Just had to be

variable,name=vendetta_covenant_condition,if=covenant.kyrian|covenant.necrolord|covenant.none,value=1

[kindred crescent]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/fay5b2m6Romir4diJXgmuv

[stoic needle]

I'm gonna be mad if blizzard doesn't fix envenom and doomblade

[limber lion]

Did you boys swap to Venthyr yet?

[stoic needle]

I'm gonna be mad if blizzard doesn't fix envenom and doomblade

Ptr patch is definitely not a release candidate

[limber lion]

I don't know when would be good time to swap.

[balmy condor]

Yuh and I already got softlocked

[fleet anchor]

NF > Venthyr imo 😛

[limber lion]

Tomorrow before the raid so I get renown from reclear, or after the raid so I still have Sepsis for the reclear

I'm at a loss

[split veldt]

hmm, i never looked at my P3 sire damage until now, is 900k good?

[stoic needle]

It's close enough that venthyr wins for style

[balmy condor]

My m+ group doesn’t have a venthyr tho

[limber lion]

I'm just happy that Venthyr is competitive. My mage and my warlock are also Night Fae. I've never set foot in another covenant's sanctum.

[spice spire]

Just use pre-buff flag, it’s fine

[fleet anchor]

I didn't tell Whispyr about additional 0.5% I found for Sepsis+MA last night

[limber lion]

Enough with the furries.

[balmy condor]

I swear to god if I have to resim everything again

[fleet anchor]

All hail bonk

[spice spire]

Koji making whispyr work triple OT at this point

[balmy condor]

Wait you found ANOTHER bonk optimization?

[fleet anchor]

Yes

[balmy condor]

How do these things keep happening

[split veldt]

[fleet anchor]

I mean there's a little more motivation to look at it when Assassination isn't 20% DPS behind everything else

[balmy condor]

Your warlock Afk?

[split veldt]

was 221 there, before i got all this gear

i think he died

[fleet anchor]

Only took the 5th hotfixes

[balmy condor]

Aha

[fleet anchor]

We'll get there

[balmy condor]

Diamond hands koji

[fleet anchor]

5th time's the charm right?

inb4 Assassination nerfed next tier because it's 0.2% higher than some ranged spec

[split veldt]

only got 2nd in overall tho

[fleet anchor]

Melee isn't allowed to be good after all

[balmy condor]

Nah just buff the ranged spec, much easier

[limber lion]

pls no

[fleet anchor]

As much as I think UDK toolkit makes ours look bad

I legit feel sad that UDK basically got nerfed multiple times

Just because it dare compete with ranged specs at the top 🤣

[limber lion]

All melee specs should sim higher in patchwork to account for the downtime that's forced upon us.

[fleet anchor]

WW and UDK both nerfed while Warlock nerf got reverted and Fire Mages were actually buffed due to the legendary changes. Makes perfect sense to me.

Assassination getting high enough on PTR that it's gonna be in the firing line

[limber lion]

I think Affli's actually got a buff because they fixed their pets or something.

[split veldt]

rogues should just do more damage altogether, we only have dps specs

[fleet anchor]

I mean frankly

[split veldt]

fucking blizzard

[stoic needle]

I see nothing wrong with this

[fleet anchor]

All melee specs should just flat do more damage optimally than ranged

It's obscene they do it the opposite when ranged is just better for raiding anyway

[limber lion]

Absolutely

[fleet anchor]

But Assassination pushing 7k in 9.0.5

Is definitely the "danger zone" if the past is any indication

Like I actually think it's perfectly reasonable, even trying to be objective about things

But historically melee specs get judged by different criteria

[limber lion]

It's so weird, I don't understand the point behind it.

[stoic needle]

Imagine if blizzard was open and transparent about their balancing goals and decisions

[limber lion]

The game works in a way where melee's get punished for doing mechanics and thus are almost forced to choose between two evils, doing dps or doing mechanics. Can't do both at the same time.

[balmy condor]

Can’t imagine

[limber lion]

Ranged players can do both and they still sim more on average.

It's just unfair honestly.

[vestal wren]

wasn't the ww nerf not only a bugfix

[sand dirge]

How can i sim my live character with the ptr changes on raidbots?

[vast pond]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/svndj17i4UVRhZG82o5iiV MA and Doom sim almost exactly the same for me. Excited for the DB buff.

[fleet anchor]

Like ngl.. it would surprise me 0% if Assassination ate a 3% hotfix nerf in the first major spec hotfix wave after 9.0.5

Just because

[balmy condor]

Would have to put ptr=1 on top of your import in an advanced sim

[vestal wren]

is assassination looking that good rn?

[tribal marlin]

try MA talent with doomblade

[stoic needle]

Top single target simming melee besides feral

[subtle tundra]

the 2 lowest apm melees simming the highest

kek

[fleet anchor]

Given that Owlweaving might get nerfed by the sounds of it, it could end up being the top simming melee pretty soon

[stoic needle]

Is owlweaving low apm?

[vast pond]

@tribal marlin I'll give it a shot. Like subt better though.

[balmy condor]

Higher than base feral

[limber lion]

Imagine that the highest dps melee spec is not even fully melee.

[fleet anchor]

No it's way higher

[stoic needle]

Yeah that's what I thought

[balmy condor]

[fleet anchor]

Owlweaving is like 55 APM vs. 44 for Feral baseline

[balmy condor]

Yeah

[fleet anchor]

Assassination is around 49

Outlaw is 71 😮

Gotta press dem buttons

[dense narwhal]

Does anyone have a good weakaura which tracks pandemic timers (including empowered garrotes)

[balmy condor]

Foreverguy actually complains about specs being under 60 apm

It’s insane to me

[tribal marlin]

Well Assa is that kind of spec that kinda quickly become extremely strong if over tune

but always the same mind set

we don't have raid buff

all other melee have

[vast pond]

@balmy condor I prefer higher APM as well.

[fleet anchor]

I mean I do think Assassination is a bit too slow atm

[limber lion]

I enjoy the slower pace but it's a bit sluggish atm

[balmy condor]

Venthyr with vigor is like 53

[tribal marlin]

Blindside kinda give fresh breath to Assa APM

[fleet anchor]

Without Blindside it would be so 💤

[vast pond]

Agreed

[vestal wren]

^

[stoic needle]

I wouldn't mind low apm if the individual hits were bigger

[tribal marlin]

I remember playing Assa back in BoD on Jaina

damn that was so boring

[fleet anchor]

Blindside alone adds like 5 APM minimum, with some residual benefits

[stoic needle]

Like if we were popping off 25k envenoms instead of 15k ones with shiv up I'd be very into that

[limber lion]

I think that we need to stray away from the big envenoms and whatnot and just have more emphasis on poisons/bleeds.

[vast pond]

@tribal marlin dang it. Looks like I'm playing MA 😦 https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/uG8to4Gcs9rxMQxUPs8HGx

[stoic needle]

I feel like both dots and big hits are equally valid methods of Assassination

[fleet anchor]

MA is definitely the way to go with NF atm

[balmy condor]

Wow maim mangle is trash holy

[strange python]

Whats the MA opener and follow up rotation look like

[fleet anchor]

Man, without Blindside or Alacrity we'd be down to 41 APM 🤣

[balmy condor]

Mut snd mut gar rup

[vast pond]

They need to bake Alacrity into the class already. So tired of having dead tier for multiple xpacs

[shy axle]

i really like blindside tho, wouldn`t have thought that

[dense narwhal]

muti, snd, muti, garrote, rup, vend shiv seps vanish env muti env... i think

[balmy condor]

And then vanish during vendetta, towards the end of sepsis, for mut env mut or env mut env

[dense narwhal]

listen to whispyr lol

[fleet anchor]

Yeah basically for Sepsis sync with MA you just wanna use when Sepsis is gonna bonk if you have sync'd Sepsis+Vendetta

And when Shiv+Garrote+Rupture is up otherwise

[balmy condor]

Yeh I assumed as much

[frozen karma]

So you want your ma vanish buff for the sepsis explosion

[fleet anchor]

Yes

[frozen karma]

I usually vanished a bit after vendetta but I'll be doing that now

[fleet anchor]

Also make sure you use your Shiv after Sepsis ideally to capture the final hit also (can be the next GCD)

[frozen karma]

Yeah I made a macro with vendetta sepsis racial trinket etc and then I shiv

[vestal wren]

do people even play ma?

[limber lion]

Most people play Blindside-MA

[frozen karma]

The talent not lego

[vestal wren]

interessting

i expected the majority to go with subterfuge

[limber lion]

Yeah, if there's any adds, you'd swap for Subterfuge. But if you're clearing heroic and don't wanna swap around, Subt wins.

[plain thistle]

I usually play subterfuge

[balmy condor]

MA the Talent is definitely very very good

[vestal wren]

oh absolutelty

the question was if people play it

[plain thistle]

if the difference is so small I rather play the most consistent one

in my case, last time I simmed MA was 10 dps better than subterfuge on ST

[vestal wren]

because i know a lot of people would pick subterfuge by default if ma does not win out by a noticable margin

[fleet anchor]

People like using talents that don't work on half pulls, we're addicted to gambling

[vast pond]

MA wins out for me by about 80DPS

[plain thistle]

yeah, thats a big difference

[stoic needle]

Why is it a bigger gain for some and not other s

[fleet anchor]

It's gone up a lot in the last couple days with the better Sepsis sync logic

Sepsis just works really well with it

[stoic needle]

Oh this is with MA talent not legendary

[limber lion]

Does the Master Assa talent work on trinkets and the NW weapons?

[fleet anchor]

Yeah although the optimizations actually did a lot for the legendary as well 😛

[stoic needle]

Interesting

[limber lion]

Or are both Master Assa's whitelisted?

Lege and talent

[stoic needle]

Yeah I'd imagine so

[fleet anchor]

My APL change last night was like +0.8% for MA Legendary+Subterfuge for DSlice for example

[limber lion]

Currently I sync my first Dreadfire on-use with Vanish, but if it gets annihilated with the change to MA, I gotta find myself a different trinket.

[frozen karma]

MA is +85 dps for me

[fleet whale]

I mean 41 APM for sin is just about where it was in Antorus

[fleet anchor]

I would have still played Sub in Antorus if Assassination wasn't OP and DfA didn't teleport me to the other side of boss rooms 🤣

[fleet whale]

what sin did have going for it however

[limber lion]

Assa was at 37apm. Lmao

[frozen karma]

I kinda miss my 82% base haste in 8.3

[fleet whale]

for me it was like 40-41

but in antorus you had really high crit

so nearly every mut was 4 cps

[limber lion]

Ah, I was just basing it off of the Simcraft's website's simulations.

[vestal wren]

i don't understood why they did not just put a buff to subtlety too

[limber lion]

I actually enjoyed DFA. Seeing those big juicy crits pop up on my screen as I fell down and smashed my Shadow Dance was the best.

[vestal wren]

because the main reason assassination was so dominant was the numerical higher tuning

[fleet whale]

and better set and they buffed it to "fix" the fok thing

[vestal wren]

because blizz buffed the spec because they fixed a bug

[fleet anchor]

Kin'garoth is where it became painfully apparent that no raid tester in Blizzard actually played a Sub Rogue 😄

[vestal wren]

i agree

and i was at the time searching a guild

[fleet anchor]

Also see: Shadowstep on Ilgynoth

🤣

[vestal wren]

and nobody was willing to give me a chance to actually play dfa on the fight

[fleet whale]

tbh i don't think blizz really sees sub rogue as a raiding spec