assassination

[balmy condor]

okay there it is

now it's looking better

[stoic needle]

my dos14 but i did die at the end

no i dont sorry

and we had some giga pulls in ardenweald too

[balmy condor]

13 mists

[stoic needle]

15 mists

[balmy condor]

idk man, I think we went quite a bit bigger

[stoic needle]

how much bigger?

[faint harness]

almost did that wclog dps in 195 gear as sub lmao

with fuckin bonespike

[stoic needle]

dying really fucks your overall up

[gentle gyro]

https://i.imgur.com/I6zfjh4.png

will take a bit

[balmy condor]

that much bigger

WCL says 32 mobs

[stoic needle]

you sure bruh?

[balmy condor]

5 casts

[stoic needle]

how do i see mob count

[balmy condor]

count the enemies under all enemies

tbf we had to kite that pull for a long ass time

[stoic needle]

this mf pulled the first groups of butterflies and the first 2 groups of spriggans

and then the entire mid area besides the birds

into the pot

[balmy condor]

oh

we didn't have a night fae

so we pulled deer + both butterflies + birds

and then birds + the other spriggen + all the hidden spriggen

[stoic needle]

if i counted correctly it was 38 mobs

i didn't get 12k dps like my mans dei

but i got 10k on the first part but i didn't look at my meter on the 2nd

[limber lion]

Yeah I've had garrote as top damage on every key as well

[stoic needle]

can we have a dungeon that's just all pulls like ardenweald dos pls

[balmy condor]

we did

it's call tol dagor

and before that we had maw of souls

[stoic needle]

i didn't play m+ for those sadly

i was busy loafing it in classic

[limber lion]

Good ol' Maw of Souls where you pull everything to the first boss and lust

[stoic needle]

🥜

[balmy condor]

if you were speeding maw of souls, you actually just did the entire dungeon in 3 pulls

[limber lion]

Yeah it was sick

[balmy condor]

everything into first boss, take the horn, now you're below deck, pull that all, nuke it, do the second boss, pull the upper deck into the mini boss, do last boss, done

[fallow otter]

Tol dagor refused to drop me daggers

Actually, everywhere did

Thank God for pvp this patch

[limber lion]

That was the time when you were almost forced to have an affli-lock in the group with the corruption legendary just so the tank could kite all of the mobs

[cosmic trail]

I finally solo'd a layer 8

[light plume]

thank you for reminding me about daggers so I can go change my loot spec for vault

[vestal wren]

gz

[balmy condor]

bruh I keep simming my rogue and raidbots keeps throwing an error about chain lightning can someone tell the shaman TC's to fix their nonsense

[vestal wren]

did you try weekly instead of nightly?

[balmy condor]

well it's not breaking the sim

it's just a warning

[gentle gyro]

my DoS 15 from yesterday

i guess that's less CT than optimal

[mellow gale]

is there any macro for blindside?

[balmy condor]

!bs

[prisma monolith]

Macroing Ambush to Mutilate only works with the use of a addon.
It comes with the downside that it often requires multiple key presss.
Suggested addon to use(Gnome Sequencer):http://tiny.cc/mxb6tz
Showcase Video: #assassination message

[gentle gyro]

...or you just have both mutilate and ambush bound to different keys

[balmy condor]

wait no, that deserves more this tbh

[stoic needle]

Shadowcore oil in keys

[balmy condor]

hold on

[stoic needle]

Shadowcore oil in general

[mellow gale]

yes i will just use 2 keys

[gentle gyro]

i have multiple 200 stacks of em cause my main has alchemy, sod off 😠

[native lynx]

under 4k overall seems like a liability in 15 and higher keys

[stoic needle]

It's not under 4k on details

[gentle gyro]

ye

details said 4.4k

[stoic needle]

Wcl overall is different

[native lynx]

I see

[gentle gyro]

we had 4.4, 4.4 and 5.8 for dps overall and barely timed it

[balmy condor]

4k overall probably closer to like 5.4ish

when we're talking WCL to in game

[native lynx]

he said 4.4

[native lynx]

was the 5.8 a boomie, mage, or monk?

[gentle gyro]

fury warr

https://i.imgur.com/eDr8QNu.png
also, here's the soultion to ambush + mutilate

two keys

[stoic needle]

DOES NOT COMPUTE

ASSASSA BOOMER BRAIN DOES NOT HAVE ROOM FOR MORE KEYBINDS

[balmy condor]

is that vanish on ALT Q

[gentle gyro]

i mean, I AM running out of keybinds

[native lynx]

Assass has like 5 buttons

[gentle gyro]

yes it is

[balmy condor]

yo you fucking nasty

[gentle gyro]

huh?

[balmy condor]

how your fingers do that

[gentle gyro]

my left hand is not straight on the keyboard, but at an angle

thumb on alt, ring on q

[balmy condor]

that confuses me even more

[native lynx]

yeah

[balmy condor]

don't you need to tuck your thumb under your entire palm

[native lynx]

claw grip isnt meant for keyboards

[balmy condor]

wait

is your hand literally like a claw machine

[gentle gyro]

...i have a normal hand

[native lynx]

then why do you use it sideways

[gentle gyro]

god made me this way

[balmy condor]

I mean you say that, but your thumb is either dislocated or your hand looks like this when you're typing

and I'm honestly not sure

which I'm more comfortable with

[low girder]

wait can you not just tuck your thumb in from the spacebar to alt

[balmy condor]

wtf

that's super uncomfy

[native lynx]

@balmy condor i think he has his hand at an angle to the keyboard, so instead of wasd his fingers are like 123w

[gentle gyro]

my "default" is
thumb on alt
pinky on tab
ring on q
middle on w

[low girder]

idk it's not that hard for me lol

[balmy condor]

oh

[gentle gyro]

pointer on e

[balmy condor]

oh your rotate that way

[native lynx]

its still really awks

[balmy condor]

okay well that makes more sense

[gentle gyro]

only cause you're not used to it

[balmy condor]

yeah I mean I can see that working

[native lynx]

well you can get used to vietnamese torture

doesnt make it ideal

[low girder]

idk it never hurts or is even uncomfortable

not like i put buttons i hit a lot there

alt 2 is vendetta

[native lynx]

long fingers = use fkeys for me

[gentle gyro]

https://i.imgur.com/vgebvKc.png

alt 2 is shiv you uncultured hobo

[low girder]

alt 1 was TB

now it's ctrl f

because that's where shiv was before it was pruned

[balmy condor]

I could never

[native lynx]

too many alt and ctrol modifiers for me

[stoic needle]

Just get a keypad like a civilized person and stop doing contortionism with your hands

Free yourself from the tyrrany of the keyboard

[native lynx]

assass doesnt even need that many keybinds

and idk why people dont use stealth bar for stealth keybinds

[low girder]

wtf is sepsis bound to

[native lynx]

probably his monitor power button

[stoic needle]

The stealth bar lags

[gentle gyro]

i do use stealth bar for stealth keybinds, wdym

[native lynx]

looking at shroud

[gentle gyro]

also ^ is the key to the left of the 1

[balmy condor]

@stoic needle

[low girder]

oh, not US keyboard

i see

here that's `

[native lynx]

@balmy condor is that dslice?

[gentle gyro]

and ye i could rebind cloak to a stealth one, but I'm not really using ctrl 3 anyways

i'd always be a bit cautious with theotar sims

[balmy condor]

yeh

[native lynx]

this is making my impending decision to go back to venthyr much easier

the thought of grinding all that renown though

gives me anxiety

[strange python]

pogslice

[stoic needle]

What lmao

[balmy condor]

venthyr stonks

are rising

[iron orchid]

They are gonna make us all turn into vampires, then nerf lashing scars and we gonna cry

[balmy condor]

my blood sucking friend

[balmy condor]

well my hon hon friend

'

ITS NOT THAT BAD WITHOUT IT

[iron orchid]

fuck

[stoic needle]

Something something sim bait

[balmy condor]

something something theotar can't stand in puddle reee

[stoic needle]

Tbh the shade is kinda big

[iron orchid]

Guess Imma really tell my tank to go back to kyrian, so that we have every covenant x)

[balmy condor]

something nadjia isn't in this sim but lemme tell you bout thrill seeker

[gentle gyro]

the shade isn't small but it's not that big either

i lowkey just wanna play my rogue in the raid so I can play the seeds on xymox myself

[stoic needle]

Tanks will just need to learn to kite in circles instead of lines

[gentle gyro]

because rn my dps are fucking it up

[mellow gale]

red pill is biding shift, alt and ctrl to mouse buttons to combine with keyboard, doubling your keybinds everytime

[stoic needle]

The real red pill is a foot pedal for modifiers and push to talk

And a razer tartarus

[iron orchid]

Well, all it takes is A LOT of practice. This is actually a weird fight because timers depend on how hard you hit, and eventhough most boss abilities always come in the same order, small shifts in timers can fuck up your positioning really bad

[gentle gyro]

we have the same order every time

[iron orchid]

we actually wiped around a 100 times before everyone could get a sense of how to improvise those small tweaks

[gentle gyro]

we play 2nd seeds in p1

and we always wipe to people returning with the seeds through the tear or "i couldn't play my seed" THEN SAY SOMETHING

[iron orchid]

Yeah i feel that x)

[gentle gyro]

i suicide bombed multiple times as healer because i saw a seed lying around

we even have a dk that plays that hard one during the second pull-in

and he does his fucking job

[indigo mulch]

Artificer gives me ptsd.

if your running 4 melee on that fight all you do is running around. you have like 30% uptime on the boss 😦

[balmy condor]

30% uptime?

sin stonks?

[indigo mulch]

I wish i was playing sin 😦

I was bullied into playing monk since they needed the debuff for mythic prog

[stoic needle]

Well monk is getting nerfed next patch so you have an excuse

[balmy condor]

they're not nerfs, they're bug fixes! - blizz probably

[gentle gyro]

sadly sin is really meh on that fight cause execute does not really matter

[indigo mulch]

roflmao i really hope they go through so i can go back playing something i actually want to play.

[iron orchid]

well bug fixes can result in ups too

[gentle gyro]

if you wipe to not having enough damage after seeds 4 then you have different problems

[indigo mulch]

How is assassination look for 9.0.5 tho? 😮

Is there any sims swimming around so i can compare them? D;

[gentle gyro]

scroll up a bit

#assassination message

[iron orchid]

There is some stuff in the pins

[balmy condor]

there's about to be more

;)

[indigo mulch]

HINT HINT

I mean, i have a hard time seeing us beat outlaw in CN atm D; to much aoe and shit going on there. Hence why monks are so broken 😭

[gentle gyro]

i mean total dps never tells the entire story

[gentle gyro]

just look at sun king, we basically have everyone spec fully into single target because the adds die either way

[indigo mulch]

Yups

Same with Council (progressing there atm) ;/

well aoe is actually useful there

[stoic needle]

I think your labels are flipped

[balmy condor]

oh they are

you're right

[gentle gyro]

AoE or multitarget? cause sin rogue does fine in the latter

[indigo mulch]

I was confused there for a second

[balmy condor]

mother fk

[stoic needle]

[balmy condor]

PTR AoE Covenant Comparisons

here we go again

[indigo mulch]

Well done! You've done it!

[low girder]

so in dungeons and whatnot NF is super close and it's only on sustained aoe where it pulls a bit ahead where i'd be playing outlaw anyway

wonderful

[sand dirge]

whats the difference at korayn and korayn ptr? just the sin rogue changes in general?

[balmy condor]

yes

each non-ptr matches with a PTR

which is all the respective changes from live

so korayn ptr vs korayn is just the general sin changes like cttc

theotar to theotar ptr also includes the venthyr rework

so on and so forth

[low girder]

that dungeonslice PTR increase though lmao

almost dead last to bis

[balmy condor]

venthyr stonks

[limber lion]

I guess it's time to swap to Venthyr after tomorrow's raid. Oh boy

[low girder]

NF seems close enough if i'm gonna play outlaw as well though, so i'm very happy

at least i think, outlaw still needs aoe sims i believe

[tender fjord]

Marileth necro doesn’t even make the list if you assume all buffs in dungeonslice? 😂 that’s just sad

[indigo mulch]

How is sin ST compared to outlaws ST tho?

[tender fjord]

Thanks for the effort @balmy condor !

[balmy condor]

I only simmed the highest soulbind for each cov

[sand dirge]

lashing stonks, hope they dont nerf the conduit... maybe in pvp but not in pve

[low girder]

better by a decent amount with the PTR changes

sin gains.. 300 or so dps on the default profile?

on ST

[balmy condor]

yeah I'm doing lego comparison atm and then will resim some single target stuff

[gentle gyro]

if I swap covenants, do I lose all my anima?

[tender fjord]

Makes sense

[low girder]

yes

[gentle gyro]

fuck that

[low girder]

hence why i'm happy NF is close 😛

[drowsy parcel]

you can buy some cosmetics, switch covenants and resell to vendor to get anima for new covenant

[tender fjord]

Imma convert to the tea drinking crimson zombies tonight then

[indigo mulch]

❤️

[limber lion]

Do you sleep... ever?

[balmy condor]

next question

[indigo mulch]

Whispyr is an AI, it does not need sleep.

[naive geyser]

is it better to craft zoldyck lego with haste/crit (when i have 25% crit) or haste/mastery?

[low girder]

i sleep more than whispyr does, we'll put it that way

[eager delta]

haste crit

[balmy condor]

mastery bad

[eager delta]

you can always juggle stats around later on other pieces if you really need to

[naive geyser]

but ash...

[eager delta]

other peices

referring to non legendaries

[eternal sleet]

So zoldyck is still the go to lego after ptr changes?

[indigo mulch]

#assassination message

[eager delta]

i wonder if with the changes to slice with cttc coming back and doomblade being good we'll see ct played over pb on st more, now that we dont have to invest cp into slice

[balmy condor]

wouldn't that make PB better

and not worse?

just ya know

wondering

[eager delta]

i mean possibly since your pressing envenom more, but my train of thought was more that if the dmg between ct and pb was at all close then itching out abit more envenom dmg with ct and doomblade would make them closer

though your probs right, less cp on slice just means more chances to proc pb i spose

[balmy condor]

pb > ct in single target with doomblade right now

the doomblade buff is on the dot, not the envenom part

and cttc means more envenoms = more pbs

[faint harness]

how come theotar is better

in dslice

i tried simming it for sub and its absolutely dogshit

[strange python]

would we take theotar like it is right now in the pins or would we take 2 potency conduits once the stuff from the ptr hits live

[balmy condor]

[faint harness]

like 200 dps drop

might be somethign wrong with the sim

[shadow helm]

whats the rotation for aoe

[balmy condor]

garrotes from stealth, rupture everything that lives long enough, ct to maintain/fill on big aoe, envenom to fill on small aoe

[balmy condor]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/hm1LULNXv1A9Gfw2AvwpM1

bout equal tbh

[stone pilot]

Hey whispyr just kinda curious but you know what ballpark % wise new flag is for us on st?

[balmy condor]

have you tried the pins

[faint harness]

alrighty

[stone pilot]

Like what % of our overall dmg not like how much better or worse it is than other covs

[faint harness]

weird how that matters

think it should be around 4% tho

[limber lion]

Depends if you use the op conduit for it or not.

[stone pilot]

I know it doesn’t really matter it was just kinda an idle curiosity

[balmy condor]

1 sec

[indigo mulch]

So the reason why assassination is "so" far ahead of the other two on st is due to lashing scarr?

[balmy condor]

cttc mostly

[indigo mulch]

CTTC? D:

[balmy condor]

cut to the chase

[indigo mulch]

I'm stupid, thanks.

[faint harness]

40 dps increase that turnt into 200

[indigo mulch]

I'm just looking at what kojima wroth and he mentioned Lashing scarr being really strong (by far).

[balmy condor]

push not you too

[faint harness]

sorry

[balmy condor]

I've apologized so many times

[faint harness]

just joking

no bully

kojima

lashing isnt even that strong

not sure what koji is comparing it to

its better than other sin conduits, but thats quite easy

[limber lion]

Yeah, with all of the conduits being shit, it makes sense that eventually one will be a lot better

[faint harness]

its like half of CTO value, yet that conduit is fine

[limber lion]

Blizzard

[faint harness]

not even blizz, they obviously think lashing is fine

its our own tcs that take issue with it

[tender fjord]

We’re so conditioned in our covenants/conduits not really being significant so anything that stands out even a bit is special

[faint harness]

the best sin conduit is like 2.5% ish

right?

flag is 3-3.5%

[balmy condor]

yeah something like that

[limber lion]

Yeah, comparing to stuff like the fire mage conduit (which haen't been touched) or even cto, it's kind of a meme

[faint harness]

fire mages can get almost 20% dps increase from their 2 best conduits

[balmy condor]

oh boy this sim is going to get me in trouble

[faint harness]

we're fighting over 5%

[balmy condor]

[limber lion]

But tbh I think it's just that we don't want to get new stuff in the game that would get nerfed when it hits live, instead of having it pre-nerfed in ptr

[faint harness]

👀

[balmy condor]

Legendary Powers (PTR):
BE AWARE THAT DOOMBLADE IS BUGGED AND SIMMING ~75 HIGHER THAN INTENDED

[indigo mulch]

Big

[faint harness]

how

is

zoldyck

down there

[balmy condor]

that's what's gonna get me in trouble

[indigo mulch]

lol

[faint harness]

but how

[balmy condor]

envenom no pandemic

= zold weak

[faint harness]

notlikethis

its the only sin legendary i have

[balmy condor]

still bis on sire

btw

[limber lion]

Yeah we were simming Zoldyck yesterday

And MA sims better than it does on 5min pw

😫

[faint harness]

im not sure

[balmy condor]

yeah I was aware of it but I wasn't trying to cause a wildfire

[faint harness]

duskwalker can straight up

be better

if you get more vendettas in p3

[limber lion]

Yeah no worries

[torpid spoke]

Whispyr is this ptr or live

[limber lion]

Pinerino the graph? :')

[faint harness]

is that doomblade sim with the bug

or without

[indigo mulch]

Wait, what doomblade bug?

[faint harness]

it does less dmg than its meant to

the bleed effect

i assume its without

[limber lion]

I will 100% go Doomblade if Blizzard fixes it. It's a fun concept

Pretty passive sure

But I like my bleeds

[faint harness]

i mean you dont play around it at all

do you

[limber lion]

No

[faint harness]

not like ur gonna find another bleed somewhere

[limber lion]

Literally none

[faint harness]

to buff it with

dashing will do more for gameplay i think

[limber lion]

Run CT as well and exsanguinate?

Too bad Exsang is awful currently

[indigo mulch]

I miss exsang from 8.3 😦

[limber lion]

I actually enjoyed it when it was relevant

[balmy condor]

gonna be a pretty ridiculous re-pin in a second

[daring pecan]

that's what's so fun about it, Push

less thinkies = more funsies

[faint harness]

🚫

[indigo mulch]

[sand dirge]

is the doomblade bleed affected by mastery/haste?

[limber lion]

Assa has enough buttons to press and the apm is already high enough. No more buttons pls /s

[indigo mulch]

Super high apm, big spammage.

[tender fjord]

The low apm is what makes it nice to play CMV

[faint harness]

whats the APM with dashing?

[indigo mulch]

In all fairness, as a raidleader. I'd much welcome a slow spec ;D

[low girder]

Motherfucker

My DUST

[balmy condor]

the trouble

[faint harness]

1.05%

[balmy condor]

aighty the great repin of 2021

[faint harness]

zoldyck stonks took a massive hit

[low girder]

Duskwalker big gains

[indigo mulch]

So wait, that is with the bug? ;X

[limber lion]

Here we go boys

[faint harness]

you have bugged it out

[balmy condor]

[faint harness]

so whats doomblade with the bug

incase they dont fix it

[balmy condor]

dunno

can't sim it

[limber lion]

Looks good

[balmy condor]

I can napkin math in a second here

[faint harness]

dashing scoundrel looks good

[indigo mulch]

Its blizzard, they are happy that they made a new leggo being the top dog. 😮

[cosmic trail]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/483348725704556557/805764359087194112/image0.gif

[limber lion]

I don't think they've figured out how it reduces the damage right?

[faint harness]

armor (?)

[indigo mulch]

No need to fix trolololol

[faint harness]

the bug makes it worse btw

not better

[limber lion]

Yeah but it was so random like it was armor^2 or something

[low girder]

It's fine I've got a few weeks on slg anyway, more time for more leggos

[echo cargo]

yeah but what are the chances it gets fixed 👀

[limber lion]

Miki and Koji were trying to figure it out. Not sure if they found out the correct formula

[faint harness]

lots of ppl tried

[balmy condor]

on this episode of whispyr is gonna throw a number out

and hope it's not troll

[faint harness]

doesnt help when apparently the mutilate tooltip is bad too

[balmy condor]

it seems to be reduced by 30%

from the documentation of the bug that I'm seeing

so we're gonna go with that

and knock of 30% of the damage from doomblade on that sim

and pretend like that's fine

[faint harness]

[balmy condor]

75 dps

[limber lion]

Oh no

[balmy condor]

new magic number

[indigo mulch]

roflmao

[shadow helm]

DOOMBLADE NEW BIS?

[low girder]

Can you add that 75 to zoldyck kthx

[balmy condor]

I'm not anxious for this to blow up in my face

you are

[limber lion]

Alright any Dashing Scoundrel boys?

[faint harness]

is that 75 - 40 dps

[limber lion]

[balmy condor]

[shadow helm]

does serrated count as a bleed for doomblade

[balmy condor]

no

[shadow helm]

sadge

[cosmic trail]

so doomblade new pve leggo now

[faint harness]

duskwalker has more potential imo

[daring pecan]

whispyr made me craft zoldyck

and now it's bad

[shadow helm]

i mean you can keep it

[balmy condor]

push the trouble is happening

[daring pecan]

whispyr gimme back my soul ash

[balmy condor]

[indigo mulch]

Pitchfork and fire.

[shadow helm]

eventually you'll be able to use 2 leggos anyway

[indigo mulch]

lets go peeps

[cosmic trail]

I get rank 4 doomblade tomorrow

[daring pecan]

--E

[limber lion]

Possibly. Need to look into timers more

[daring pecan]

pitch fork at the ready

[cosmic trail]

[daring pecan]

I AM THE TROUBLE

[low girder]

Duskwalker not being shit has some timer possibilities yeah

[cosmic trail]

GETCHA PITCHFORK HERE

[limber lion]

New pins/new sims = sudden burst of activity in the ol' Assa channel

[balmy condor]

how was I supposed to know that envenom randomly stopped working like it has for the last 9 years

[low girder]

Hopefully they fix it

Guess I'll sit on the r3 for now

See what happens while I prog slg on the other spec

[indigo mulch]

I'm not crafting anything til 9.0.5 hits 😐

[shadow helm]

whats wrong with envenom

[low girder]

It doesn't pandemic anymore

[indigo mulch]

but why o0

[low girder]

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[balmy condor]

because blizzard stumbled over a line of code and it broke

[indigo mulch]

So its a possible bug? =X

[balmy condor]

I mean

envenom, since pandemic has been a thing, has pandemic'd

[limber lion]

Kinda interesting imo how much a pandemic-effect on Envenom affects the output

[balmy condor]

it would be pretty crazy if that suddenly, with no warning or reason

changes

[balmy condor]

it was like 10% envenom uptime

[limber lion]

I don't think people give the Envenom buff the benefit of the doubt. It's usually just about the initial damage, very rarely you see people talking about the effect itself.

[balmy condor]

I mean in the case of dashing/zoldyck, it's very important to talk about

[limber lion]

Apparently the extra poison proc it's huge

Yeah

[balmy condor]

the reason dashing didn't take as much of a hit though

[low girder]

I'm surprised that didn't hitt dashing that hard

[balmy condor]

is because we found out that dashing procs on poison bomb

[low girder]

Oh

[balmy condor]

so net gain

pog

game is fucked, more news at 11

[limber lion]

[faint harness]

my aff lock guildies cant believe the patch is going live like this

[low girder]

Toss it into the bug bin with BtE flurry and premed, they'll get to it eventually

[indigo mulch]

Wouldnt that mean dashing would dash up in dps if they fixed the pandemic? :x

[faint harness]

you know that spec at the top of the meters ye?

affliction lock i think they are called

[indigo mulch]

There is nothing wrong with locks, completly balanced.

[faint harness]

they got quite a big buff in 9.0.5

[indigo mulch]

Just as balanced as DK's are.

[faint harness]

and no nerfs

[low girder]

2-3% fire buff too

Lol

[faint harness]

i think the buff to aff is more than 3%

my guildie is like, "why did they revert rapture nerf"

[limber lion]

Is there something wrong with Afflis? Or are they just surprised that they aren't getting nerfed?

[faint harness]

and he plays one himself

[limber lion]

Ah yeah

[faint harness]

their pets

are getting a 25% buff

in 9.0.5

[low girder]

Yeah it's gonna be like 5%

[faint harness]

because there was a bug with their dmg increasing debuffs

[balmy condor]

yeah, but it interacting with PB is weird, so if that gets fixed it goes back down

[faint harness]

that their pets didnt get

[indigo mulch]

Holy shit, that spaghetti code.

[low girder]

Meanwhile bugfix hunter and ww and they get shit on

Lmao

[faint harness]

order is restored

[balmy condor]

basically if you craft doomblade, be aware that it's bugged, and if you craft zoldyck or dashing, be aware that it's bugged, and if you're crafting dashing, be aware that it's bugged twice

[faint harness]

ww and mm back in the dumpster, aff and fire gets even better

[indigo mulch]

I'm so happy WW getting shit on. I'm so sick of playing WW 😐

getting bullied into playing a spec sucks :c

[low girder]

And sin becomes bis st rogue spec

As is the way

[faint harness]

8.3 is back

[indigo mulch]

roflmao

Sin has never been bad st. :X It was supprising they left sin in the gutter for this long =X

[faint harness]

"for this long"

[balmy condor]

half a tier

[faint harness]

literally a few weeks

[indigo mulch]

Yep

[balmy condor]

yeah that must suck real bad

imagine

[faint harness]

sub was bad for 2.5 years

[balmy condor]

half a tier

[low girder]

Sub got 2 months in the sun then back in the gutter

If that

[faint harness]

what 2 months

outlaw had those

[low girder]

It had hype for a little

[indigo mulch]

I don't mind each spec having their thing, sub for pvp, sin for cleave/st and outlaw for big aoes 😮

[faint harness]

"big aoe"

sure

[indigo mulch]

Compared to fire mages nothing is big ;/

[faint harness]

and pvp doesnt work like that

if sin is better dmg

its a better pvp spec

[low girder]

Idk "pvp spec" always rubs me the wrong way

No one calls aff the pvp spec

[faint harness]

no one calls frost or arms the pvp specs

pvp spec is a fucking meme

and should die as one

[indigo mulch]

I mean i would be fine if that was the case, its not but i wouldnt mind it.

:X

[faint harness]

each spec can have their quality in pvp

and pve

it doesnt have to be so simple

why cant sin be good dot cleave in pvp and pve, why cant outlaw be good for zerg cleave in pve and pvp, why cant sub do control and short dmg bursts in pve and pvp

[torpid spoke]

@balmy condor what is the best legendary then this coming patch

[faint harness]

why does it have to be either or

[torpid spoke]

Doomblade?

[indigo mulch]

I mean i suppose your right.

[limber lion]

[faint harness]

in BFA, assassination was the go-to spec for both PVE and PVP

outlaw was the m+ spec

and thats about it

sub didnt have a role

[indigo mulch]

Yeah i know, i'd much rather have it so all 3 specs have their own niché.

[slim sable]

just bring back dfa + shuriken combo but less powerful

[zealous marsh]

I suppose blizzard is so desperate to make content so hard that they forget that people want to play what they enjoy most. Not what they have to

[faint harness]

mages are the most exposed to this

how do you tell anyone ur not playing a fire mage for everything

[zealous marsh]

Well u can play frost on some bosses according to limit

[indigo mulch]

Fire mages are just overtuned 1min combust is just way to strong.

[zealous marsh]

And i saw some logs recently

[faint harness]

i would hate to play a mage for this reason

hardstuck fire

if i ever want to try something else i have to reroll

doesnt seem like fun

[indigo mulch]

The dmg profile on fire is just broken.

[zealous marsh]

The point is

Most of the guilds are playing what limit are playing atm

On bfa it was method meta

[sleek sparrow]

Sub rogue and demo lock 2 peas in a pod, made to be a specific niche but masters of none

[dusky vault]

Frost isnt even bad anymore; the public perception just makes it so you get instantly declined from keys because your not fire

[zealous marsh]

That’s the point

[dusky vault]

ST frost is already better than fire

[zealous marsh]

But people now are just dumb af

[worn geyser]

I’ve seen arcane mage do 9k+ overall dps in dungeons too

[zealous marsh]

U are not fire = kick

[faint harness]

except demo lock actually does dmg if played right

[zealous marsh]

Same for rogues now. U are not buff / unholy dk = no raiding spot

9.1 will be different i suppose but for now we have to suffer

[tender fjord]

You don’t have to suffer

It is not end all be all

I think most of us here play assass and have a raiding spot?

[indigo mulch]

Unholy dk are just to stronk, they have super high burst, good single target and a raid cooldown no other melee can compare to that ;o

WW maybe

thats about it

[faint harness]

i played sub on prog and had a raiding spot

but i'm also an officer and can directly influence the outcome

[sand dirge]

raiding spot as sub. m+ spot as sub

[tender fjord]

I was sub until a month ago I guess

[faint harness]

i dont like m+ as sub this season

or maybe i just dont like m+ at all

[tender fjord]

Niceruu

[sand dirge]

i started to play sin in theater, spires, sd. but i guess i will just play sin everywhere with 9.0.5

[tender fjord]

As long as you can pull your weight in the keystone lvls that you and your friends push for I see no reason to whine “only outlul stronk”

[sand dirge]

but sometimes i am afraid that i get kicked in random groups because im not outlaw. but that only happened once

ye true

[tender fjord]

I’ve had people flame me for trolling, I’ve had people praise me for being a unicorn. Pugs are gonna pug

People who say “but there are no assa rogues doing 25’s”, make me think “tf u be doing 25’s as outlaw?” 😂😅

[gentle gyro]

uh whoever laughed at me earlier for having shadowcore oil, am I supposed to use stones instead of oil?

[balmy condor]

!oil

[prisma monolith]

Using consumables will increase your damage, however the difference between oil/stone/potion combinations are very minor (within 0.5% of each other). You can sim the difference for yourself by pasting this pastebin underneath your /simc input, in the "advanced sim" section of raidbots: https://pastebin.com/Lbxc7afJ

[indigo mulch]

I remember simming that shit early sl ;<

or whispyr simming it for me rather

lul

[balmy condor]

yeah I eventually made fuu turn it into a bot command cause I couldn't be asked

[indigo mulch]

roflmao

[strange python]

hey yall! is Niya's Herbs any good in m+ for Sin? I'm guessing it procs off Vial and Recuperator? Anything else that procs it and makes it worth it?

[daring pecan]

it only procs off recuperator

[strange python]

so is the uptime on it any good if you just keep SND up like we always do?

[balmy condor]

not true

[daring pecan]

it does proc off vial?

[iron orchid]

The uptime is around 65%

[daring pecan]

I've heard it only procs off recuperator

[iron orchid]

It procs off passive regeneration

[balmy condor]

herbs procs off of passive health regen, leech, recup, everything

[iron orchid]

too

[daring pecan]

oh, leech too?

and passive health regen???

[balmy condor]

yeah

I've seen 60-65% uptime as well dei

[daring pecan]

who the fuck designed this and then gave it the worst description in the fucking world

[onyx wind]

Herbs seems fine, but you have the option of first strike

[livid thistle]

Hey guys i realy hope assa gonne be stronger thn outlaw or atleast on the same level in 9.0.5, is there something i can prepear for it now as in legend choices or going venthyr now orrrr should i wait and see? :p

[onyx wind]

so its prob not worth playing

Wait and see, its PBE

They prob dont want venthyr to be the by far best choice

[livid thistle]

isnt the patch in like a week or so?

[balmy condor]

league players in this good wow discord

[onyx wind]

wait whats it called in wow terms

[balmy condor]

ptr

[onyx wind]

oh

[spice spire]

Outted

[strange python]

so first strike definitely better for m+?

[faint harness]

public test realm 🤓

[balmy condor]

detective whispyr sussed it out

[onyx wind]

First strike is really insane

not sure abt herbs uptime, but i know for sure that first strike is insane

and prob really hard to beat

[faint harness]

is haste even good for m+

[onyx wind]

as sin, yeah

[faint harness]

it wasnt in bfa

but i guess things change

[onyx wind]

they do

[strange python]

it was

[faint harness]

might be because of echoing blades

being gone

[balmy condor]

haste is poggers atm

[onyx wind]

its also just early

so haste has more value for sin

[faint harness]

well

you would play like 5% haste

as sin in bfa

for m+

[balmy condor]

if you look at a damage breakdown like this

it's hard to see why haste would be bad

[faint harness]

crit/mastery was better

[spice spire]

Feelcraft says that herbs is comparable to Korayn.

Mastery in 2021

[balmy condor]

I agree with that feelcraft

herbs is super sick

[onyx wind]

I think having 25% crit is too hard to pass up on

setting up on pulls

[faint harness]

not 34%?

[iron orchid]

Mystler typing

[surreal torrent]

it doesn't proc off leech, the enormous uptime comes from the fact that even 0 heal counts

[faint harness]

this very good youtube theorist said 34% is the optimal number

[iron orchid]

brace yourselves

[surreal torrent]

you don't need recuperator, the mere fact that recuperator exists is enough to have a proc chance for herbs every 2s

same for stealth on any spec

soothing darkness exists

proc chance every second

[balmy condor]

does it proc off of passive regen?

[surreal torrent]

they never fixed that since beta

[balmy condor]

I thought it worked on like everything

[onyx wind]

It has 30% proc chance with no PPM ties afaik

[iron orchid]

We got it all wrong

[surreal torrent]

it has 10s ICD so you can't have overlapping procs, after that flat 30% on any heal event (excluding leech)

[spice spire]

This is why you’ve n not received any weapons in the vault Deï

[onyx wind]

It prob has uses in some dungeons then

if youre playing sin atleast

[surreal torrent]

Unless they changed something recently it should sim correctly

[subtle tundra]

outlaw herbs when playing MA?

[surreal torrent]

We actually implemented Rogue healing just for this herbs "bug"

[iron orchid]

Maybe i get one tomorrow huh

[balmy condor]

any heal even excluding leech

....so passive regen....works?

[spice spire]

Yeah, and I’ll get one today :^)

[surreal torrent]

what passive regen?

[onyx wind]

passive regen isnt a heal afaik

[surreal torrent]

you mean out of combat reg?

[onyx wind]

atleast doesnt get counted as it is in logs

[balmy condor]

ye

[surreal torrent]

no

[balmy condor]

well then wth man

[surreal torrent]

anything that is a direct heal or HoT tick should work

[onyx wind]

what is recuperator uptime in patchwerk?

[surreal torrent]

if that wording is better 😄

[balmy condor]

equal to slice uptime

so like

98%?

[balmy condor]

perfect thanks

[onyx wind]

Seems like it has potential then

[iron orchid]

I don't get why i get herbs buff while sitting in Oribos by myself then

[surreal torrent]

are you in stealth?

if so, there's your answer

[iron orchid]

Yeah i guess

[balmy condor]

wait how does stealth affect it?

[surreal torrent]

again, Recuperator and Soothing Darkness do not have to be active

they exist

and if not active have a 0 heal event

that is enough to proc it

[iron orchid]

ok alright

[balmy condor]

soothing darkness on sub? procs it on sin?

[surreal torrent]

yes

[balmy condor]

that's some bullshit

[onyx wind]

wait what

[surreal torrent]

it's a simple spell effect that is 0 for non sub and without the talent

[onyx wind]

thats so dumb

[surreal torrent]

but they apparently do not check that

[balmy condor]

this game is so broken

[surreal torrent]

Sub can easily get 70% due to dance

[onyx wind]

how abt recuperator, how does it work?

is there any weird interaction

[surreal torrent]

After the 10s buff expires it's only about minmaxing heal ticks in a way. Slice and Dice has one every 2s, Dance one every 1s. so after an EV of like 2-3s you can expect a new buff again

[onyx wind]

So its like a ~~75% uptime?

[surreal torrent]

yeah. i don't remember what sims have it at. but around 70% is not hard to reproduce as sub on a dummy

[balmy condor]

on herbs or recup

[surreal torrent]

if it didn't have this 10s ICD you'd probably have 100% uptime

herbs

[onyx wind]

And, just to be absolutely sure, you dont even need to have soothing darkness talented?

[balmy condor]

recup uptime is just = slice uptime right

[onyx wind]

Or does that only work for sin if it was talented as sub

[surreal torrent]

correct

no need to talent it

[balmy condor]

doesn't matter apparently. It exists, and that's enough, cause not talented = 0, and 0 is an enough

cause blizzard logic I guess

[spice spire]

I liked the interaction better when I thought it was passive regen. Now I’m just sad at stupid interaction

[balmy condor]

idk I'm so done

[surreal torrent]

it's one of the funniest things i remember from beta for sure

i was so curious if this went live.. it did

[spice spire]

I miss being naive

[onyx wind]

How will recuperator work with CTTC ?

[balmy condor]

same

[balmy condor]

same as now

[onyx wind]

Recuperator just changes spellID into something that heals right?

[balmy condor]

cttc gives slice, slice is recup, everyone's happy

[onyx wind]

ye ok

nice

[surreal torrent]

Recuperator is nothing other than an unlock that sets a 0 value in Slice and Dice to something higher, to be a bit more technical. It's not an own spell or buff

[onyx wind]

Alright, so you dont even need recuperator equipped either

[surreal torrent]

correct

[onyx wind]

XD

[surreal torrent]

not sure what other shenanigans there might be

guess hateful chain might give procs too

[balmy condor]

bruh mystler thanks for the knowledge but also I hate this knowledge please take it back

I want to un-know these things

[surreal torrent]

haha

[onyx wind]

We bandageweaving now boys

[sleek sparrow]

Remove brain plz

I wanna unread all this

[surreal hawk]

is it true that you dont pandemic the subterfuge buffed garrote in the opener?

[balmy condor]

yes

that was something we used to do with shrouded suffocation in bfa

[surreal hawk]

oh yeah that makes more sense

[balmy condor]

if you didn't have that trait, you didn't do it in bfa either

and that remains true today

silly autocorrect

[simple kettle]

u can doit if u vanish but that next vanished garrote should not be pandemic

[surreal hawk]

kk thx for the info

[balmy condor]

yeh if the first garrote hits the pandemic window, you can vanish refresh that

[surreal hawk]

i see

[balmy condor]

you just dont gat mut gar and clip the time on it hella

as long as you get 1 empowered garrote, from every stealth/vanish

and you don't override it weirdly

you're good

[surreal hawk]

does it change in any way in execute when bleeds deal 30% more dmg ?

with the leggo

[balmy condor]

it does not

[surreal hawk]

kk

would you guys recommend MA (talent) or Subterfuge for sire?

[balmy condor]

ma imo

there's an argument for subt for p2 adds

but MA is more single target for p3, which is usually want you want

[surreal hawk]

yeah phase 3 is all that matters

[strange python]

why not pandemic subterfuge garrote in the opener? at least so it can run the full vendetta duration?

[subtle tundra]

yea but assa multidottin' in p2 feels good af

[surreal hawk]

on rekill i think sub gonna be good but for first progression u only really care about phase 3 dmg

[subtle tundra]

also that more single target in p3 isnt even a significant amount

[strange python]

bring back classic garrote; stealth only behind target

[subtle tundra]

also doesnt subt garrote work with zoldick so it deals even more dmg

[strange python]

I haven't seen sire mythic do the adds take a long time to die in p2?

[subtle tundra]

if you have good cooldown management, no

[spice spire]

Our empowered garrotes aren’t worth the trade off of one GCD FOR the few extra seconds you get

[surreal hawk]

if i sim execute patchwerk it tells me to MA so its seems like even with the leggo and subterfuge , MA still beats it

[spice spire]

It’s not SS territory anymore

[strange python]

Yea I mean garrote isn't as strong as it was in BFA but still isn't it awkward to run out of garrote durring vendetta?

[balmy condor]

why would you run out

you just refresh it

[quasi ledge]

That's when you vanish

[balmy condor]

garrote is 18 seconds, pandemic at 5.4

you vanish with 5 left, garrote, now you have a 23 second empowered garrote

that's a total of 36 seconds of empowered garrote

should be more than enough

[strange python]

yea refresh it but that's already one gcd in vendetta that could've been envenom maybe or at least muti

[subtle tundra]

you dont have enough energy anyways to keep envenoming in vendetta

[balmy condor]

but you would've spent that gcd at the start clipping it?

what?

[strange python]

but not in vendetta

[balmy condor]

okay lets try a different approach

you have subterfuge

you can cast 3 abilities

what 3 abilities do you cast

[strange python]

i'm saying this from a perspective of fighting an M+ boss since I don't raid: I usually garrote-ambush-garrote-rupture..then vendetta sepsis bla bla

[balmy condor]

oh

so that's actually the worst thing you can do

[surreal hawk]

do u actually ambush ?

[balmy condor]

like it actually doesn't get worse than that

[quasi ledge]

Could be using Cheap Shot

[balmy condor]

I guess he could, yeah

problem 1: double garrote sucks, because thats just not worth your energy or your time

problem 2: ambush sucks, don't cast it if you don't have a blindside proc

and I didn't see you mention it but problem 3: slice is more important single target than rupture, get that up first

[strange python]

i usually aim to have slice before pulling with left over CP's

[balmy condor]

that's not something you should aim for

but if it works out that way, cool

[strange python]

When would you refresh slice? When it falls off or @ or below 8s. Sorry if this was a dumb question.

ok, i don't exactly "aim". it doesn't always happen, but it often happens

[balmy condor]

in pandemic range

4cp is like 9 seconds-ish if you're looking for a quick and dirty

[strange python]

Perfect. Thanks

so ok, what would be the perfect opener on an M+ ST boss when you already have SnD up? with subt and first strike?

[balmy condor]

gar mut rup sepsis shiv vend mut env mut env mut env, vanish gar when garrote is in pandemic, maintain rupture, and then cast CT out of shiv

[strange python]

is ambush really that worse than mut in the opener? without blindside?

[balmy condor]

Yes

If you’re not running blindside, you do not cast ambush

[strange python]

hmm ok, great! thanks for the tips! i'll try it out

[balmy condor]

Yep

[balmy condor]

Also something that often gets overlooked, you don’t press fok until you have 4 targets

Lot of people cast on 3 or even 2

[strange python]

gotcha! one more thing btw, so CT is ok to cast on ST out of shiv? so that means two targets CT is also must do?

[balmy condor]

Yes, you maintain CT on 2 targets

And maintain CT outside of shiv, on 1 target

[strange python]

damn

do we ever get to cast envenom in ST? :/

[balmy condor]

Ye, during shiv

[strange python]

heh true

[balmy condor]

I was busy resimming for pins today

But maybe tomorrow I’ll try and figure out if cttc makes CT single target go away

Cause I fucking hate it

[strange python]

at least it will be less clunky to cast it with cttc if we have to

[oblique flare]

hey so since venthyr gets buffed, it means assa will scale with venthyr???????????

[balmy condor]

[obtuse ruin]

Just make PB or CT one of them baseline already

[oblique flare]

big true

[onyx wind]

coming back from sub, it was really surprising that we have no baseline AoE finisher

i kinda got used to it

[frigid kestrel]

Ye would be nice for CT to be our BP baseline finisher

id assume if they ever decided to make CT baseline PB would get some sort of nerf for balancing purposes

But all wishful thinking

[onyx wind]

why is PB even still a thing

[uneven summit]

So Zoldycks not bis anymore?

[frozen jasper]

What did i miss man, since when do we use CT in ST ? I am confused

[balmy condor]

Always have

[balmy condor]

Correct

[uneven summit]

Dashing Scoundrel then, if doomblade is bugged in sims i assume

[onyx wind]

Was zoldycks ever "bis"?

I thought it was just good overall

[subtle tundra]

its not good overall, its good cause it gives execute

[uneven summit]

but i guess it´s from 9.0.5 anyway, so time to get another one up

[onyx wind]

Its also good overall for that reason

Its good in cleave/AoE

and fine on ST

[frozen jasper]

Wait really? I remember a few weeks ago someone Said to just maintain it in aoe cleave or whatever but definately Not to use it in ST

[balmy condor]

It’s very minimal

I wouldn’t worry too much about it

[oblique flare]

wait, currently or in 9.1 when we get cttc?

[frozen jasper]

But it would be a little gain to maintain Ct over using enven outside shiv?

[balmy condor]

905

[balmy condor]

Yes

[frozen jasper]

Ohhhh i thought on live

Mb

[balmy condor]

? We do the CT thing on live

[frozen jasper]

Well okay then i didnt get what damian was asking

[balmy condor]

Cttc

[frozen jasper]

Thank you tho i will try it out

[frozen jasper]

I understood his question as if he was asking if we do the CT thing currently or if we do it when we have cttc

[balmy condor]

Ah

Yeh no the ct thing is now

[frozen jasper]

Alright, everything clear now Thank you chef

[onyx wind]

@balmy condor How much of a gain is it

doing CT on ST

[oblique flare]

ah i see, i thought when we get cttc as we'd basically cap on SnD time up

[balmy condor]

Like 0.2-0.4%

[weary marten]

i just read about zoldyck not being that good anymore, are we aiming for the mutilate = dot + envenom dmg boost legendary ?

[balmy condor]

In that range

[balmy condor]

If the bug gets fixed yeh

[weary marten]

which one ?

[balmy condor]

Doomblade

[safe totem]

bob

[weary marten]

i mean which bug

[balmy condor]

Doomblade is affected by armor atm

So the dot is being reduced by about 30%

[weary marten]

oh yeah that's huge

[balmy condor]

(Which is the note for 75 dps I made in the pin)

[indigo mulch]

100% 75 dps.

[balmy condor]

Take the 75 with a grain of salt

[indigo mulch]

Nope, it says 75 in pin. IT HAS TO BE 75!

[balmy condor]

Its semi-rough napkin math

Since we can’t sim it properly

[indigo mulch]

if its not true we'll hunt whispyr down with pitchfork and bonfires

[balmy condor]

It’s still based on sims though

So it’s kinda there

[indigo mulch]

😄

I mean even if we remove the 75 dps its still pretty decent.

[balmy condor]

The people malding that zoldyck isn’t bis single target already chased me down the street earlier

[indigo mulch]

haha

[weary marten]

i was expecting wind to turn for assa so i didn't craft a legendary yet heheh

[indigo mulch]

Dashing looks great tho, I'm consider doing that for my first assassination leggo.

Even tho its boring its energy. Energy is always fun

[balmy condor]

Zoldyck is in no way bad btw

[indigo mulch]

Isent it bis for dungeons tho?

Zoldyck that is.

[balmy condor]

Yes

And execute can be very valuable

Especially sire

[indigo mulch]

But 1 boss in CN

[onyx wind]

Usually you are in execute phase more than 30% of the boss time

[balmy condor]

Yeh

[indigo mulch]

we're to late in the exp to worry about that

[onyx wind]

Since dmg is frontloaded mostly

[balmy condor]

It’s good on things like sun king, altimor, sludge technically

Like it’s still not a bad legendary

Having execute is a good niche to have

It just isn’t the giga single target that it was at the start of the expac

[indigo mulch]

But

if it was earlier this exp

maybe i'd consider it but its to late now

[weary marten]

So if intended to switch 100% to assa (kyrian right now, will think about venthyr cuz i like it), zoldyck would be the first legendary to do ? (doing both M+ and raids)

[spice spire]

I’d think so. It’s my go to for both atm.

[weary marten]

i still play MA even in sub ST x)

[spice spire]

MA is the other go to for M+ so if you wanted an ST option, that’s fine too. Zoldy is just the best all around option so that’s why it’s often recommended

[onyx wind]

one 15 has to be the first man

[gentle gyro]

wrong channel

thing is, he had multiple outtimes below 10

no other key above 12

[spice spire]

All other 1700 ios with tho is pretty

[gentle gyro]

and then he times a +15 with 1.8k rio players

[weary marten]

i agree it's weird

[gentle gyro]

and i only looked him up because he played bad

so uh, yeah

he tanked three hooks in a row on stitchflesh

[weary marten]

though i have a shitty rio cuz i play with guildies (not so good) and never above 12, though a friend is inviting me to +15 rn cuz i'm "good" x)

[gentle gyro]

https://raider.io/characters/eu/ysondre/Whitemhow?utm_source=addon
look at both his 15s he has intime

and tell me

he isn't getting boosted

[sleek sparrow]

Aotc with 4 H boss kills

[gentle gyro]

also, 4/10 with AotC

ye

[sleek sparrow]

My poor rogue has shit io cuz I'm a slackero on him

Meanwhile he's starting M sludge prog

[gentle gyro]

dw, people won't invite you even if you have the rio

[spice spire]

Same. My guild has a team called melee misery, all melee runs four keys a week and calls it a day

That poor poor healer we rope in weekly...

[sleek sparrow]

My 204 DH tank has higher IO

[gentle gyro]

my dk has 2 days /played at max level, 1k rio

[sleek sparrow]

Started tanking 14/15s with friends at 195. Real sad life