Wut
#assassination
limber lion
uneven plume
@limber lion did you try with the zoldyk leggo ?
tribal marlin
it's always 45% damage of the mutilate no matter what
if you refresh, the remaining damage from previous dot is added to the new dot
etc...
just like Priest Plague
limber lion
<@165215952479322112> did you try with the zoldyk leggo ?
Yes and do most bosses with Zoldy. But Zoldy is really bad for such short ST fights.
Barely any execute time.
shy dust
heroic parse runs 
uneven plume
@limber lion can you link armory. I wanna see talent set up and stuff. Been wanting to play assas again
limber lion
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/character/eu/kazzak/ceverion#difficulty=4 Here's my WCL
https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-gb/character/eu/kazzak/Ceverion Here's my armory
Assa is fun, give it a go.
For more relevant info regarding talents/rotations and whatnot, refer to !guide
!guide
prisma monolithBOT
tribal marlin
I'm trying to figure out how is doomblade working
Forgot about the SP plague thing
it's different
it seems like the 1st tick it determining the remaining dot
limber lion
That would be crazy if it worked like that
tribal marlin
such that if you do 3 multiate before Doomblade dot tick once, it will tick at 600+
limber lion
Where the remaining time is additive to the next bleed
tribal marlin
for the all duration
limber lion
Dayum
tribal marlin
it's wierd
limber lion
I kinda wanna switch to Venthyr because of the buffs coming up in 9.0.5, but I love Shapeshift Soulshape so much, not sure if I wanna give it up.
winter gale
Any doctor assa to help me pls
I want to pump on sunking
Should I keep blindised or go elaborate planning?
winter gale
Its a reclear but I am not so sure where and when to pump apart from that shield
Ill log more if I go elaborate and CT?
stoic needle
You can't pump on sun king unless your healers intentionally don't heal kael and give you time to kill adds
Sun king is whack
winter gale
Yes but my assa log is grey 😄
stoic needle
EP and ct will definitely help
winter gale
Ill try to just go subterfuge build?
winter gale
Yes, haha
stoic needle
Just try to dot literally everything you possibly can i guess
wary ice
MFD probably secret op too tbh
limber lion
Ill try to just go subterfuge build?
Oh, you should 100% be playing Subterfuge
winter gale
Yes yes, I just meant Subterfuge ST build
plain jewel
How come dashing scoundrel isnt the leggo to craft. seems pretty versetile
gray fjord
It's only effective in pure ST
stoic needle
It's not versatile because we don't craft envenom except on st basically
stoic needle
Zoldyck is the most versatile legendary
plain jewel
it doesnt affect poisons on off target if u envenom main?
limber lion
Yes but my assa log is grey 😄
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/Lc9kgnjYRXqwbzhC#fight=8&type=summary&source=11
Here's my log. It was rank 1 when I got it, rank 3 now.
stoic needle
And doomblade will be our best st legendary
spice spire
And even going into 9.0.5 doesn’t Doomblade overtake dashing?
stoic needle
it doesnt affect poisons on off target if u envenom main?
It does, but again, you rarely envenom except on single target
gray fjord
From the preliminary sims they were doing, Doomblade can edge out Dashing by like 40 or 50 DPS I think it showed.
limber lion
From the preliminary sims they were doing, Doomblade can edge out Dashing by lik...
More like 100 dps with Venthyr.
plain jewel
I mean 2 target cleave u still envenom lots. or if adds spawn for a bit like on inerva, you still envemon plenty no?
spice spire
You’re all drinking the thrillseeker kool-aid 
it’s a trap
plain jewel
its only bad in M+ if you do big pulls right. cuz like what are u doing if not envenoming at 5cp
stoic needle
You’re all drinking the thrillseeker kool-aid <:peepochrist:585733962274570253> ...
I'm drinking that theotar tea and it is glorious 
stoic needle
its only bad in M+ if you do big pulls right. cuz like what are u doing if not e...
Rupturing
And CT
Even on a 5 target pull I don't have much time to envenom
plain jewel
ah i see. so basically to get full value u have to envenom pretty much all the time
right
stoic needle
Yep
gray fjord
@plain jewel The thing with Deadly Poison is you get far more damage/hits from the instant part of deadly, which only triggers when you reapply deadly on a target that already has it.
stoic needle
Also, the energy is pretty much wasted because you have infinite energy in aoe
gray fjord
And you can only reasonably re-trigger it on the target you're auto-attacking. You'll still get some crits off the damage over time base component of course, but about probably 60-65% of the damage of deadly poison is the instant damage trigger, and the sheer number of times it triggers versus just the dot ticks
limber lion
Also Zoldyck's damage increases as well the more targets you have
gray fjord
^
limber lion
5 targets at execute range is a huge spike in damage.
gray fjord
Other leggos just perform better in multi-target situation is the thing over Dashing. It's not that it doesn't give SOME DPS gains, but not much. Besides in AoE/multi-dotting your venomous wound energy regen is so fricken huge you don't need the extra energy from dashing and it overpools
plain jewel
also with Zoldyck, im running subterfuge. Is it worth holding vanish for when boss goes below 30% for the empowered garrote
stoic needle
Vanish on CD
sinful flicker
do you guys think any legendary in 9.0.5 is going to be the main one for ass?
stoic needle
Missing a vanish cast nullifies any extra damage you'd gain from syncing subterfuge with zoldyck execute
Zoldyck and doomblade will be best
sinful flicker
you guys dont see it changing with the changes to other legs?
sinful flicker
i just saw that, thank you
stoic needle
Execute is very strong, and it will be the best aoe legendary still. Doomblade is good enough that you can run it on single target fights where execute doesn't matter
marble bear
Doomblade seems fun too use but yeah I'd say Execute even on single targets and even pvp is nice
I'm just wondering what slot to put it on o.o
balmy condor
Shoulders
marble bear
Zoldycks I meant
spice spire
Legs
fleet whale
zold is meh in pvp
cosmic prism
damn them buffing these leggos suck, i already made r4 zoldyk 
stoic needle
Don't be upset you have the bis cleave and aoe legendary at max now
minor salmon
Zoldyk wont be going away for pve. An execute leggo has alot of value
stoic needle
It's the one you should get first anyway
cosmic prism
but why would i play sin for cleave or aoe 
i have outlaw
im only playing sin for memes / prog on sludgefist
wide bolt
Might be a part of a fight where execute is important there's also an aoe phase
dark vigil
@cosmic prism zold will still be best in 99% of situations
cosmic prism
spice spire
im only playing sin for memes / prog on sludgefist
Sin for prog 
plain jewel
i played sin on reclear and its actually decent. sub feels bad when u press ur burst and have to move for mechanics
clear zealot
im in this camp too
been liking sin on reclear, obviously the numbers are still a bit gimped but it flows really well
lapis jungle
We run CT even though its tyrr right?
balmy condor
yes
topaz saffron
I'm gonna ask something really dumb but zoldyk applies to crimson tempest right? X
balmy condor
yes
faint harness
been liking sin on reclear, obviously the numbers are still a bit gimped but it ...
numbers shouldnt be gimped anymore
oak arrow
guy payed me 1k per H CN boss everytime i beat his guilds rogue (Outlaw/Sub). made a quick 5k hehe
little basalt
People playing MFD in keys with assa?
strange python
heya guys, im wondering since sub is really shit, is assa any better?
trim zinc
play spec wat u like
stoic needle
heya guys, im wondering since sub is really shit, is assa any better?
It's better in cleave/aoe and comparable for ST so I'd say yes
stoic needle
can MA work for st?
It works fine, but it's not going to be as good as zoldyck/doomblade except for stuff like sludgefist
strange python
Perfect answer, thanks! will look into spending some soul ash 🙂
thorn fjord
having to reroll UH DK for raid 😦
stoic needle
Sin loses a lot less from downtime and mechanics compared to sub so that's a plus
thorn fjord
swapped to outlaw but my dps was still pretty mediocre
stoic needle
Show them the 9.0.5 sims
stoic needle
Assassination is gonna be better dps than unholy by a pretty decent margin
Less utility but more dmg
thorn fjord
Is it?
thorn fjord
working on getting me celerity to rank 3 first before crafting another leggo
strange python
200 over sub 😮
silent tinsel
PTR, bone spike now counts as a bleed for mastery
Exsanguinate now accelerates bonespikes indefinite duration 
thorn fjord
but i really want to play sin 😦
strange python
LOL
fiery mauve
SBS doom blade when
rapid lance
I've been wanting to run sbs
inland sigil
i hope everyone is reporting Crimson Tempest not working with Alacrity every day so we can get that next patch hopefully 🙂
uneven plume
Time to grind to 85% haste again somehow? 🤔
frail fossil
8.3 sin 
uneven plume
What’s fetch
feral merlin
Does SBS generate energy?
balmy condor
no
feral merlin
tribal marlin
Anyone that have Doomblade leggo on live can help me figure out something ?
tame lake
I have it I could try
tribal marlin
just go on dummy, apply the dot and tell me if the damage shown on the tooltip of the dot match the damage you deal
It seems like it's bugged and the dot damage is reduced by armor
which is deffo a bug since it's already reduced by armor from mutilate being reduced by armor
stoic needle
I think we discovered this before, the dot is only being calculated from one hand when it should be both
Koji bug reported it
tame lake
so my mut did 759 and dot did 159
stoic needle
It was a bug that was fixed in beta but has returned
tribal marlin
but I need you to look at the tooltip of the dot
mouseovering it on the target
it's wierd @stoic needle the number does not seems to match
tribal marlin
yeah the tooltip does not match the numbers.
tribal marlin
I think it's reduced by armor
tame lake
so armor is double dipping on it?
tribal marlin
@stoic needle The number does not match that statement. My main hand mutilate did 713 damage, and the dot ticked at 113 but 0.45*713 is not 339
BUT
here my mut did 1100 damage exactly and the tooltip shows 165
stoic needle
thorn fjord
Less utility but more dmg
any chance you could pull that same report for ranged?
stoic needle
any chance you could pull that same report for ranged?
Yeah I'll have to get around to it eventually... Maybe later this evening
tame lake
on live it didn't
tribal marlin
I don't exactly know how the bug works but the dot does not match the tooltip and it's not normal
dots always match their tooltip unless there is a damage reduction buff/ damage amp debuff on the target
faint harness
Yeah I'll have to get around to it eventually... Maybe later this evening
they might not be correct tho
keep that in mind
when doing those sims
🙂
stoic needle
Sure
faint harness
PTR sims are janky, making a big fuss about it serves little use
stoic needle
I doubt we will beat any of the top tier ranged anyway
stoic needle
I meant in practice
faint harness
alright
stoic needle
Like there's no way with just a few buffs we start doing aff lock levels of damage
faint harness
if you get PI'd
tame lake
as sin do you ever run a non dagger? I feel like this is obvious but had to ask
faint harness
you cant
limber lion
No
unborn eagle
bring back combat daggers
limber lion
You can transmog Outlaw artifact weapons on your Assa though if that floats your boat.
stoic needle
I've said it before and I'll say it again, they should make outlaw it's own class so they can add more flavors of outlaw spec(ranged gunner spec, tank spec, current outlaw spec) and bring back combat rogue
Everybody wins
limber lion
But Assa is pretty much the old Combat rogue.
unborn eagle
no way
limber lion
Combat used poisons and rupture.
Actually thinking about it
Current Outlaw is pretty much the old combat
stoic needle
It's combat with a forced pirate theme on top
tame lake
I feel like I'd enjoy outlaw if it wasn't for rtb
limber lion
SnD, KS, Sinister Strike, Poisons
stoic needle
So.. not combat
limber lion
It's literally combat with roll the bones
slow marsh
Combat used snd rupture lethal
unborn eagle
sinister strike eviscrate blade flurry on or off adreline rush killing spree
stoic needle
Which era combat are we talking about
limber lion
BFA Outlaw was far from Combat
slow marsh
Wrath aka the best
stoic needle
I just feel like the pirate thing is valid, but trying to force it into combat just makes it weird
stoic needle
So they should make it separate and fully flesh out the pirate thing
And bring back OG combat
slow marsh
combat rogues don't use pistols
limber lion
It literally has the exact same abilities with just pistol shot and roll the bones
but oki
stoic needle
Outlaw is this weird half and half thing now
slow marsh
It's an abomination
faint harness
It literally has the exact same abilities with just pistol shot and roll the bon...
so it doesnt?
pistol shot, bte, rtb
dispatch
slow marsh
It's like saying you can play a warrior instead of a samurai because they both use a two handed sword
faint harness
the only thing that remains is sinister strike
stoic needle
Blade flurry
low girder
gouge
strange python
u cant convince people that don't like outlaw to like outlaw they just say "pirate" and ignore u
no point
low girder
but yeah it's not the same
slow marsh
I mean gouge should be baseline but
unborn eagle
blade flurry wasnt a cd it was either on or off
limber lion
Just unbind the new abilities and you got yourself combat rogue
stoic needle
u cant convince people that don't like outlaw to like outlaw they just say "pira...
I mean it's a valid criticism
limber lion
Like in the good old days
Where you did nothing else but spam sinister strike and evis.
And keep SnD up
keepo
Most of your damage came from weapon poisons. Fun
slow marsh
rupture
limber lion
It's like people keep Combat rogue on a high pedestal. It was removed/reworked because it was bad.
low girder
except the whole revealing strike and bandit's guile thing (don't argue the legendary..), i don't think anyone who wants combat back is asking for vanilla combat
faint harness
that wasnt even the point to begin with, whether its fun or not
limber lion
It's literally the same spec with 3-5 new abilities on top.
limber lion
Like you can't say they're completely different specs
low girder
it's literally not lmao
stoic needle
That's a lot lol
limber lion
You're not comparing a Fire Mage to a warrior
low girder
they don't play similar at all
low girder
are you gonna argue old sub and new sub are also the same? it shares backstab and evisc
faint harness
its gonna play differently
slow marsh
They pigeonholed the spec to fit a specific aesthetics and its stupid. It's not like it's just transmog out of it
it's literally a fucking pirate spec
limber lion
What abilities did Combat have that Outlaw doesn't currently have?
slow marsh
and swish cutlasses for your SS
faint harness
What abilities did Combat have that Outlaw doesn't currently have?
eviscerate
faint harness
rupture
slow marsh
They moved evis to sub, they moved nasty ruptures to sin
faint harness
this is why i always say that outlaw isnt a rogue spec .)
its some abomination
between fury warr
and old combat
limber lion
I agree
stoic needle
That's why I'm saying to just make it it's own class
limber lion
But you can't say that they don't share any similarities or skills, because they literally do.
But yeah
stoic needle
Let pirates be pirates in their own class
faint harness
which had defined dps windows
quaint phoenix
Mop combat rogue was prolly my fav specc back then
low girder
literally the biggest differentiation between combat and outlaw are those windows, and the legendary is a laughable imitation without any way of gaming it
quaint phoenix
Outlaw feels very different imo
faint harness
this is not a hate outlaw thread either, its just different and i dont think you can argue otherwise
limber lion
Thinking back to Cata Combat, I can't remember any windows. Just keep snd up, sinister strike and evis all day, and your weapon poisons still did most of the damage.
But idk, maybe it was different in MoP then
low girder
i don't hate outlaw, i quite enjoy it, for entirely different reasons
yeah i'm remembering wod here
limber lion
Maybe we're all thinking of different iterations of combat
Because surely the spec changed over the years
faint harness
both sub and sin has to keep dots up in aoe/cleave, have to watch timings etc. Outlaw can be refreshing cus you literally just press blade flurry and do ST dmg
limber lion
Actually, Snake Eyes Outlaw in BFA brought me back to Firelands. The gameplay was so similar
slow marsh
I mean rogue was at somewhat of a low point in cata which is partially why i quit during hten
limber lion
Literally just Sinister Strike, nothing else.
limber lion
I mean rogue was at somewhat of a low point in cata which is partially why i qu...
Makes sense honestly
low girder
it's much like fury warr now, although there's honestly a lot more to watch than on fury lol
faint harness
still just slam cds when they are up
slow marsh
It peaked so hard in wrath that nothing compared so they just dumpstered it
faint harness
mfd has some game potential
low girder
yeah but there's a bunch, fury has like.. half? the buttons and no RTB buffs to think about
faint harness
true
dark vigil
l
low girder
just slamming ww for cleave
faint harness
low girder
at the right times
slow marsh
Fury is just a better outlaw tbh
limber lion
I disagree
limber lion
Well, Outlaw is currently doing everything better than Fury
Fury is bottom of the barrel
faint harness
false
limber lion
So, I don't know
faint harness
wdym
slow marsh
lel
faint harness
fury is actually popping off
slow marsh
in norm or what
stoic needle
Fury is solid everywhere
faint harness
strange python
outlaw has outperformed fury in logs in mythic in literally every single data collection so idek what you're talking about
faint harness
fury and outlaw does the same thing
tame lake
I'm tired of getting long dicked by arms in arenas lol
slow marsh
plus you have util and raid buff
stoic needle
Fury is outlaw with execute
slow marsh
Fury on inerva is gross too
limber lion
Sure, but Fury is absolutely dogshit on single target
Outlaw is actually useful in ST
slow marsh
I wouldn't say dog shit
faint harness
true
limber lion
Also, Assa popping off? 
stoic needle
I wouldn't call a ~400 dps difference dogshit
slow marsh
fury is 70 dps under outlaw ST
slow marsh
is 70dps worth shout?
limber lion
No, that's just Hungering Destroyer
faint harness
limber lion
fury is 70 dps under outlaw ST
It's 300dps on Hungering
faint harness
sin is doing big st dam on slg
but its prob cus nobody else is focusing st
on that fight
limber lion
sin is doing big st dam on slg
Yeah, I showed my rl that earlier when he was about to bench me
He didn't say anything after that
limber lion
Yeah, I'm playing Outlaw regardless
faint harness
you hold dps
strange python
actually if u look at avg of all bosses (granted this is like 2 weeks old now) fury slightly outperforming on the overall raid
limber lion
Can't get through first phase with our deeps currently kek
strange python
makes sense though blizz buffs it once a week
faint harness
fury aint bad
strange python
slow marsh
I mean
fleet whale
Dam Ceverion you're showing just how good MA can be in raid lol
limber lion
Dam Ceverion you're showing just how good MA can be in raid lol
I love it
patent plaza
I switched from outlaw to test assassination really quick.. and the count the odd's conduit works for assassination.
just an fyi
strange python
yea thats been a thing since beta
fleet whale
keep pumping up those sin numbers brother
limber lion
keep pumping up those sin numbers brother
Will do mate.
patent plaza
ahh cool wasnt aware
strange python
I don't think it's very good but it's funny 
limber lion
How much more dps is fury bringing with shout though
That's true. I remember 3 weeks ago when Max said on stream that "warriors literally only bring shout and that's it"
patent plaza
nah its not good but was interesting
limber lion
But I guess it's changed since then
limber lion
Ah that makes a lot of sense then, I wasn't even aware
crimson palm
Hows dw simming with the haste trait
limber lion
I'm just tunneling on Assa
faint harness
Hows dw simming with the haste trait
shit
slow marsh
Really if you want to compare apples to apples you should compare rogue to frost dk
fleet whale
fury and sin have what i got "buff scaling"
slow marsh
or Outlaw to frost
strange python
bro sin and sub are literally bringing less than surv hunter to raid in dmg logs
this class is a travesty
fleet whale
aka... were "scaling" cause we keep getting buffed lol
slow marsh
They are the ones taking the one utility skill we have
faint harness
bro sin and sub are literally bringing less than surv hunter to raid in dmg logs...
survival is a meme for a reason
faint harness
check amount of parses pls
strange python
sin doesn't have many mythic parses either lol
fleet whale
survival is barely played, always screws with it's parse rankings
stoic needle
I'm pretty sure sin does more damage than surv though
limber lion
Not a single Survi has killed Sire on mythic.
strange python
fleet whale
sin does significantly more damage than survival
limber lion
I remember when it was like that for Assa. Good thing we bleedybois are getting up there
faint harness
legit only 2 people have killed slg mythic as surv
and they did good dmg
so they pad their stats
limber lion
legit only 2 people have killed slg mythic as surv
The R1's name is relevant
crimson palm
Thyminde 
faint harness
Thyminde is back on surv poggies
crimson palm
Guy was forced to play MM
faint harness
Solaris
crimson palm
strange python
is MM even hard to play in its current state
faint harness
no
strange python
seems like u just sit there and hit aimed shot and wild spirits sometimes
frail fossil
paddingidiot
stoic needle
I'd play surv but I don't want to go from not wanted to even less wanted spec
It seems like fun
crimson palm
Enh is the sleeper this tier
spice spire
Wind fury totem boosting raids 😡
strange python
wildfire bomb is pretty much uncapped
limber lion
I gotta admit, aoe cap on Blade Flurry feels awful. I did a run of ICC and it took me literally 4 gcd's to kill one pack of whelps before Sindragosa
like
pls
crimson palm
That venthyr thingie is so fkin good
strange python
its softcapped to 20 targets
stoic needle
Yo I should make an enh alt on a52 and sell wft parses in pugs 
faint harness
love playing enhancement, if it gets lucky with some BP in 9.1 it can become a must have for mythic raiding
limber lion
More people should play Enha so we could get them to buff us with Windfury :^)
stoic needle
WTS WFT 5k/pull
spice spire
Imagine that extra 400 DPS to pad your parses sev :^)
limber lion
I can only dream
spice spire
7200 on shriekwing? Child’s play. 7600 is the real shit
stoic needle
I had WFT and PI feed on lock in my old guild 
dark vigil
ptr changes pls
faint harness
it doesnt work on pets
dark vigil
i want weebs out
strange python
@dark vigil pins, #tc-updates
frail fossil
dont we all
strange python
o
stoic needle
Wdym, rallying cry for dps is pog
unborn eagle
i dont get wft in raids cause pallies/dh/druid needs it more
crimson palm
demo lock want wft for their pets
Battlemaster for the extra hp :)
limber lion
How long do you reckon it'll take to farm Renown up to 30 from scratch?
stoic needle
crimson palm
Yeah
stoic needle
i dont get wft in raids cause pallies/dh/druid needs it more
I'm pretty sure sin/rogue gets more than all of those specs from wft
faint harness
is demo dmg based on HP?
frail fossil
he's trying to figure out to make demo lock work on sludge
crimson palm
Yeah
crimson palm
U just need wilfreds
spice spire
How long do you reckon it'll take to farm Renown up to 30 from scratch?
Spam PVP, mythics and shit and like
faint harness
I'm pretty sure sin/rogue gets more than all of those specs from wft
assa gets the least from wft iirc
frail fossil
and the more hp his pets have
spice spire
A week?
crimson palm
China plays demo on sludge
unborn eagle
I'm pretty sure sin/rogue gets more than all of those specs from wft
ya they do we are the fastest auto attack is what the totem does
faint harness
cus assa dont have any procs tied to AA's
meanwhile sub gets cp and energy
outlaw gets energy
frail fossil
he's using double battlemaster on use
limber lion
Imagine working at Blizzard and hating Assa rogues
stoic needle
faint harness
Imagine working at Blizzard and hating Assa rogues
they got buffed by almost 20% since release
wtf are you talking about
stoic needle
Sin gets the least of the rogue specs but it still gets more than ret, dh and druid
faint harness
they hate them so much they keep buffing them every single hotfix
limber lion
I'm just meeming
shy dust
Wait in what world
limber lion
I love the current Assa
frail fossil
Sin gets the least of the rogue specs but it still gets more than ret, dh and dr...
bro have u heard about sub being shit for 3 years straight
shy dust
Sin hasnt even bad bad for an entire tier and got like 20% in buffs
stoic needle
bro have u heard about sub being shit for 3 years straight
I meant from wft
limber lion
Depends. Usually we're undertuned in the beginning of an expansion and then we get a bunch of buffs then we start to pop off.
And then we're a decent/good raiding spec until the end of the expansion.
limber lion
We were undertuned in Uldir after the SS nerf.
frail fossil
sin was the best pec in bfa for raid once sub got zuled
faint harness
sub is the blood DK of dps specs
limber lion
We did get some buffs after the initial SS nerf which pushed us back on board again.
frail fossil
blood dk is actually fun rn even if it's weak
faint harness
just like blood dk
frail fossil
idk if sub can be qualified as fun rn
faint harness
maybe not this version
limber lion
I enjoyed Legion sub with DFA and Master Assa, it was actually really fun to play.
faint harness
but traditionally
limber lion
Seeing those huge, huge crits.
frail fossil
but yeah that's kinda it, every tanks likes bdk and sub easily one of the most popular spec when it's good
faint harness
i want to see blood dk better
man
the amount of mob control blood dks can do in m+ is very satisfying
frail fossil
i love playing blood dk
limber lion
Yeah, Legion BDK was pretty dank. I enjoyed it quite a bit
frail fossil
if blood dk were good i would literally only play this in key
frail fossil
it's such a good spec
faint harness
guardian druid has nothing going for it
frail fossil
like a good bdk is just totally in control
faint harness
ye
stoic needle
Isn't guardian basically unkillable
limber lion
My friend plays a g druid and he says that he only swipes and trashes
But then again, he's not the best player, so I don't know if that's really the play or not lmao
frail fossil
gdruid looks like the newcomer tank spec
tropic ocean
well u didnt do much more last xpac with clapper
frail fossil
bdk is the opposite
late birch
If you use Nightstalker with MA leggo, does NS empower garrote if you open with it? Because i see one guy opening with garrote with this build
Would think you open with mut with damage buff
and reopen with envenom after vanish
tropic ocean
night stalker empowers the whole duration on dots
dont think he uses night stalker to empower garrote
should use subterfuge for that
limber lion
If you use Nightstalker with MA leggo, does NS empower garrote if you open with ...
Yeah, that's me
Hello
tropic ocean
is he using mfd as well?
limber lion
It does empower it, but NS is mainly used for buffing the first Envenom after Vanish
For big deeps
limber lion
Wait I need to study this chinese homeboy brb
stoic needle
That log looks weird
limber lion
Oh yuk, he doesn't even use double on use or MFD
stoic needle
Oh it's just a section of it
limber lion
Because you can get 3 envenoms during your MA window
tropic ocean
is mariboro the chinese plagiatism version of marlboro :^)
limber lion
The shorter the fight, the more value you get out of short, but big damage windows
limber lion
but do you need a certain amount of haste>
Nah
Just sim yourself.
It's really cheesy and wouldn't recommend on progression though.
Maybe on Sludge if you're a king
spice spire
Maybe on Sludge if you're a king
Everyone’s a king, king.
limber lion
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/rankings/26#class=Rogue&spec=Assassination&boss=2398&difficulty=4
Like if you look at these logs you can see how much damage you can potentially get with the talents.
late birch
I mean was prolly gnna try assa for sludge prog, since Zold sounds really good for that
faint harness
this seems like a lot of feelscraft
its 100% not
shy dust
is it not push?
limber lion
this seems like a lot of feelscraft
Well, I did 800 more dps than the r2
So, seems to be working pretty fine
tropic ocean
I can see it being really good
if u struggle sunking shields as well
not only sludge
late birch
ROFL i was in the raid with Fiveonefiveo today when he got that log
and the fifth guy
was in same raid
late birch
ah
faint harness
Well, I did 800 more dps than the r2
heroic?
late birch
shy dust
yes its heroic
faint harness
you play a lot of heroic man
limber lion
Haven't seen any of the first 6 bosses in months
I enjoy it
Trying different things
faint harness
makes sensze
late birch
We keep reclearing
limber lion
I would want to do mythic runs as well but we're probably 2 more weeks on Generals then 2-3 weeks on Sire
Not sure if I'll ever see a mythic shriekwing again
faint harness
wouldnt you just
limber lion
We keep reclearing
I would love to reclear
faint harness
do it on farm
limber lion
do it on farm
Yeah of course.
But with patch 9.0.5 coming in March and 9.1 "soon after", not sure if we'll have much time to farm the instance
faint canopy
What does Pl mean? LOL
limber lion
Power Infusion
It's a priest ability that increases one players haste by 25% for 20s
Basically a slightly weaker bloodlust for one person
faint canopy
25% haste on sin sounds like pog indeed
limber lion
Yeah it's great, gameplay feels smooth when you have a lot of haste.
limber lion
It's the best when used on execute with lust though
That's the moneymaker
With Zoldy
late birch
wtf happened to assa
faint canopy
It's either Sin or Ass
late birch
😦
faint canopy
i'd rather use sin
limber lion
Everyone has their preferences. I've called it Assa for years so I'm using it
limber lion
I have a theory that NA players tend to call it Sin and Europe-boys call it Assa
Don't quote me on that though
icy crater
what about europe girls
tropic ocean
sin reminds me of maple story
i hope youre a dual blade
icy crater
and europe non binaries
spice spire
I’ve always called sin
late birch
@limber lion Ever tried Exsang on these quick kills?
limber lion
<@!165215952479322112> Ever tried Exsang on these quick kills?
I've tried simming it quite a few times, but it just doesn't work as well. 😢
late birch
rip, died with bfa
limber lion
If we still had Shrouded Suffo or something similar it would work.
late birch
ye
limber lion
Zoldy + Exsang + Subterfuge garrote sounds like a spicy combo
But it's just not enough
low girder
I have a theory that NA players tend to call it Sin and Europe-boys call it Assa
generally how it goes actually
much like in League where for whatever reason NA calls it Baron and EU calls it Nash, just weird divergent terminology i suppose
low girder
that too
tame lake
ss and mia back in the day lol
shy dust
@limber lion to what you said in outlaw
limber lion
bot ss
shy dust
its not even because they havent cleared the bosses
its just that most rogues are either playing sub or outlaw
as in the better players are playing the meta
limber lion
Yeah that's also true. But there are also some assa tryhards who play Assa and nothing but Assa.
limber lion
We can't really say whether or not the best ranking Assa is actually the best Assa in the world or not.
Because there's no real comparison
shy dust
as those players who play whichever is the best at the moments notice
limber lion
I don't know, there's still some players who dedicate their lives to some specs, even on top 100 guilds
Surely there's an Assa or two who are on a similar boat.
But yeah, I do agree.
I think we've just scratched the surface and we'll need a lot more people playing the spec
spice spire
No way
tame lake
at least with rogue the gear is similar its not like boom v feral or whatever
limber lion
Wait do you know when exactly 9.1 comes?
They said that 9.0.5 is coming in March and 9.1 comes "soon after."
late birch
meh
limber lion
at least with rogue the gear is similar its not like boom v feral or whatever
Yeah, we can make the jump between specs pretty easily.
late birch
Hopefully they give us enough times to actually play the update
low girder
considering the vagueness of everything in the announcement "soon" means a while i think
limber lion
I hope so too.
late birch
I hope so
spice spire
9.1 is in 2022
limber lion
considering the vagueness of everything in the announcement "soon" means a while...
I remember when the Oldschool Runescape team announced that OSRS Mobile is coming out in "Winter 2017".
It came out a year later
low girder
indeed
stable moss
Does master assassin legendary still crit for your bleeds in the next patch ?
calm hollow
Any one know what how much of an increase zoldycks gives us during the execute window? 15%?
stoic needle
30%
calm hollow
I thought that was just to poisons and bleeds. I meant overall lol.
stoic needle
all jokes aside, there's an execute patchwerk sim type if you want to test
calm hollow
ah ty
limber lion
Playing Assa with Outlaw weapon transmog is so trippy. Like I keep wanting to use Grappling Hook and think that my attack range is higher than it actually is.
spice spire
Y tho
balmy condor
he wanted me to stream me simming
but then I was teaching a guildie about APL stuff
and I used flag as an example of something that needs optimizing
and I went down the rabbit hole
and optimized it
dark vigil
balmy condor
<:MajorWeirdChamp:786539964561096704>
king of weirdchamping hitting me with a weirdchamp is pretty rich tbh
dark vigil
silent tinsel
Petition to remove the offhand dagger needed for mutilate
balmy condor
Petition to remove the offhand dagger needed for mutilate
just got flashbacks to 8.3 
people unironically running double mace and just using fok to generate
slow marsh
<@!409626135408803841> sorry I couldn't help myself and optimized flag APL off s...
Hahaha it's ok
I halfway expected it tbh
tribal marlin
I think I just figured out a new bug
I was trying to figure out how much armor the dummy i'm hitting had. So I used multiple abilities such as Shiv, Ambush, Shadowstrike, Backstab and so
All single ability shows a 30% difference compare to tooltip.
All but one : Mutilate
Mutilate only show a 16% to 17% variation
you know what's the most fascinating ?
sqrt(0.70) = 0.8366
so basically mutilate damage reduction from armor is square rooted
faint harness
and you assume its intended?
probably just a simple mistake
why would mutilate not be affected by armor
as much
and making it sqrt is random as fuck
toxic quail
Hey so Im reviewing logs from myself and others, but I have a quick question. Do we use Shiv then Sepsis or Sepsis then Shiv? Tooltip verbage would make me assume Shiv then Sepsis. But maybe im crazy. Cause top logs have Sepsis then Shiv. I dont wanna get baited.
tribal marlin
I have no clue @faint harness but the numbers are quite ... idk it's kinda wierd that it's consistantly ~16.5% for mutilate and 30% for everything else
and even more wierd that sqrt(0.7) exactly equal to 0.835
limber lion
Hey so Im reviewing logs from myself and others, but I have a quick question. Do...
I use Sepsis first then Shiv simply because Sepsis lasts for 10s and Shiv for 9s
That way you have both for 9s
faint harness
probably some intern that mixed up the numbers
limber lion
You get full benefit from the 9s of Shiv.
balmy condor
Hey so Im reviewing logs from myself and others, but I have a quick question. Do...
sepsis then shiv
unless you follow our god king emperor who do no wrong, infexious
who suggests otherwise
toxic quail
@limber lion yeah so thats what I was thinking once I saw the CDs. But wasnt 100%. Because no matter what you get the Nature DMG increase.
tribal marlin
It's completly possible that they made it intended so that it's easier to balance Mutilate dmg :/
balmy condor
for literally 0 reason
toxic quail
Well thank you boys. hehehe
limber lion
I literally couldn't keep a straight face when he went through the rotation
I don't get it
balmy condor
sorry, I shouldn't be so casual when referring to him
limber lion
Also all of the tooltips that he wrote down had soo many typos
balmy condor
LORD INFEXIOUS GAMING OF ROGUE GUIDES YOUTUBE TWITCH GUIDE CHANNEL THE GREAT
tribal marlin
What's wrong with infexious ?
balmy condor
he's a clown
limber lion
It's like he just farts out a video and doesn't even make edit make sure the info he hands out is actually proper
balmy condor
like his guides and shit
limber lion
Like his newest "How to play Assa" video is full of shit.
balmy condor
are so close to being decent
limber lion
His sims are bad
balmy condor
and then he just says garbage
limber lion
His logs are bad
balmy condor
for no reason
solar flicker
sounds like ur mad hes better
limber lion
Yeah. If he put that little bit of more effort in they could be good.
tribal marlin
Maybe they are square rooting mutilate so that we will never ever use FoK as a builder again xD
in ST
balmy condor
sounds like ur mad hes better
DEFINITELY THE REASON
limber lion
I don't even wanna use FoK as a builder in AoE...
strange python
i wish infexious were my dad
stoic needle
<@!409626135408803841> sorry I couldn't help myself and optimized flag APL off s...
So what's the optimal way to do it
dark vigil
i found the best way to gear low alts
just queue lfr and die at the start of the pull on purpose
and go make food
void pecan
Time to try assassin, what's the opener now boys?
prisma monolithBOT
limber lion
There's your rotations
dark vigil
yea
void pecan
cool thanks
limber lion
MA>subt for pure single target?
Most of the time, yes. MA sims 1-2 dps higher than Subt for me so I usually just run Subterfuge for most fights so I don't have to switch as much.
You can do the whole raid with Blindside/Subt/Vigor/Alacrity/PB
void pecan
That's what I'm running so I'll give it a try
limber lion
Yap, good luck
spice spire
zoldyck or doomblade on sire? Doomblade sims about 150 dps higher, but execute damage is Giga isn't it?
void pecan
not playing DDR with my fingers will be different
spice spire
yeah it's 200 shoulders vs 223 pants tho
that's why
unlucky w shoulders and weapons lol
limber lion
Ah that makes sense.
spice spire
ye I was leaning toward zoldy
cerulean light
Dashing Scoundrel or Zoldyck ?
limber lion
Zoldyck
spice spire
zoldyck, it's more flexible and better all around
with a relatively low difference in st, it was 10 before. Unsure if it still is, but it's low enough to still be taken over dashing
dusky vault
zoldyck or doomblade on sire? Doomblade sims about 150 dps higher, but execute ...
Yep especially on sire run zoldyck. Phase 3 is the critical dps check
slow marsh
yes
strange python
k cool. Im running seeds for some reason so that should make second one easier
limber lion
k cool. Im running seeds for some reason so that should make second one easier
Yeah you def shouldn't be running seeds, rip.
limber lion
what would be 2md best after zold for raid/,ythics
Probs MA for now, or save for Doomblade which will be the best ST legendary when patch 9.0.5 drops.
strange python
Yeahh it's awful
dark vigil
zold better in most fights even with db buff
well not for parsing
but for downing bosses
alpine oasis
thanks i might just got rank4 zold last night with a wing to spare ao lookimg for next target
alpine oasis
still playing catchup just restarted wow after a year thanks for the helpq
limber lion
but for downing bosses
Eh depends which bosses and what kind of progression you're and whether or not you're doing mythic or heroic
Good luck, don't burn yourself out
dark vigil
zold does more dmg at the end of the fight which for most bosses in CN it's important to getting it down
but for throughput of dps throughout the fight DB will pull ahead
limber lion
Doesn't matter for bosses which you're reclearing
dark vigil
yes
limber lion
It's great for progression
candid quarry
How is Hateful Chain for sin?
limber lion
It's decent, needs to be a high level to see play though.
I wouldn't necessarily aim to get the trinket, but can be a dps increase if you do get it. Just need to 
candid quarry
Vault reward, not high ilvl but will replace a 142 trinket so 😛 but have other higher rewards tho
candid quarry
ok thanks
alpine oasis
i mainly juat do heroic raids and mythic+ to around 10 but might try 15 this season
limber lion
i mainly juat do heroic raids and mythic+ to around 10 but might try 15 this sea...
Keep at it, one step at a time! 🙂
manic harness
Yall staying with Zol's in 9.0.5 or planning to run something different?
keen remnant
ass has gouge?
balmy condor
Yall staying with Zol's in 9.0.5 or planning to run something different?
Doomblade looking good for single target, but zold still overall yeah
balmy condor
ass has gouge?
No
manic harness
@balmy condor y u so cute?
Okay I'll go ahead and upgrade my Zol's from 190 to 235
balmy condor
<@167090536602140682> y u so cute?
stoic needle
dungeonslice is proving difficult
how so?
balmy condor
Jank time to death stuff
stoic needle
didn't mystler fix that earlier today?
stoic needle
ah i see
balmy condor
On every other pillar
torpid spoke
so first and 3rd?
sacred flax
do you stack pot with vandetta?
balmy condor
Yes
lament mica
so offhand dagger doesn't matter much in terms of weapon damage?
balmy condor
Stacking CDs is always a good idea
balmy condor
so offhand dagger doesn't matter much in terms of weapon damage?
Correct, it gets factored into mutilate damage, since that has an offhand hit, and melee damage
But it is still weaker than mainhand damage
lament mica
aight cool, so I can worry bout other slots before worrying about another 900 conquest for OH
balmy condor
Well OH is probably one of the strongest slots to upgrade right after mainhand and trinkets
But you can use droptimizer for that question specifically
It’s designed to tell you what would be an upgrade :)
lament mica
facts, ty
pastel osprey
226 quantum devices worth using ? along with 226 skulk ?
stoic needle
yeah 226 IQD is one of the best trinkets in the game right now
pastel osprey
aye, never used it as outlaw
slow marsh
I just got 210 IQD
balmy condor
balmy condor
Yeh it’s crazy
dense hamlet
dosent it give mana or smthing to like healers
balmy condor
Sometimes yeh
balmy condor
Would it
dense hamlet
yep
balmy condor
You don’t want your healers to have mana?
dense hamlet
nop
balmy condor
Hm
lament mica
theres a WA that shows u what IQD will do
dense hamlet
like the next use?
lament mica
both
balmy condor
It tells you what happens if you hit it then
dense hamlet
+how much mana does it even give
balmy condor
Quite a lot
balmy condor
?
It does show before
But even then
The “fail” rate on iqd
Isn’t that awful
And you can sim for failed second casts
If you’re still uneasy
lament mica
right. i just mean u don't wanna be looking at it too far before u actually press it lol
prisma monolithBOT
dull fulcrum
!guide
slow marsh
theres a WA that shows u what IQD will do
yes
tribal marlin
I like 2x on-use
especially in dungeons with MA
but that's going to get removed 😦
frozen karma
would lethal poisons be better than well placed steel on Denathrius M?
with zoldyck ofc
balmy condor
would be about the same
frozen karma
okay