but its quite literally only been a couple
#assassination
loud silo
tropic ocean
do u think ppl will inspect u in 15s lol
they will invite u if u have decent rio and itemlevel thats it
loud silo
i think i've seen 2 in total
balmy condor
#wow-general š if we gonna talk about survival
tropic ocean
pretty sure if I spec my boomer into feral they will still insta invite me on 15s
loud silo
:c
wind nacelle
Had one (surv hunt) in a raid a few weeks back, was also mauling bosses @_@
merry adder
gonna go craft zoldyck i think, so quick refresher, is haste and crit still the best missives on it?
tropic ocean
balmy condor
gonna go craft zoldyck i think, so quick refresher, is haste and crit still the ...
Haste and then either crit or vers, both fine
tropic ocean
in a vacuum world maybe
balmy condor
Missive choice wonāt really impact much tbh
You just end up getting the stat from somewhere else
strange python
I think when people ask for it
and I'm guilty of it myself, it's cause your stat prios aren't where you want them (presently) and you just inspect your char and are like "damn I'd really like to swap that crit for haste right now"
etc
solid vault
yeah
i made legendarys with crit+versa
now i want to change it, and it feels so bad
strange python
o well, giving big consideration for respec to sin going into 9.1 since I'll be able to just replace all of my gear
without it being a massive hassle
tropic ocean
im kinda interested how to come up with that assassination is stronger on some boss fights over outlaw
balmy condor
i made legendarys with crit+versa
Thatās not bad either tbh
hollow escarp
tempted to buy the boe boots and wrists now
solid vault
Thatās not bad either tbh
i know, but not perfect with my actual gear š
strange python
isnt energy regen you actually get from haste stat like actually really tiny
solid vault
im kinda interested how to come up with that assassination is stronger on some b...
maybe they're talking about Sire 3rd phase
balmy condor
isnt energy regen you actually get from haste stat like actually really tiny
10% is like 2apm
tropic ocean
maybe they're talking about Sire 3rd phase
maybe
strange python
okay
tropic ocean
but then I wouldnt tell that assassination is better on some boss fights
hollow escarp
my current bracers have 51 haste as 213 ilvl, and 226 ones have 55 
tropic ocean
cuz its not
strange python
people got spoiled by 8.3
tropic ocean
like assassination has more execute and if thats what your group lacks
its a good choice but that doesnt justify
solid vault
they not gonna mage it cause pvp
solid vault
make*
tropic ocean
(generally)
tropic ocean
and outlaw will not have that?
hollow escarp
even more with blade rush
if you use it on ads
it does feel good to be rank 1 dps in phase 3 and top 5 overall on every kill
worldly bridge
Does anyone know how to config Plater to make low hp target plates glow / bigger ? I need this to get better with MFD resets
tropic ocean
@hollow escarp I mean its been told sin is strong in denathrius for p3 execute which is a logical idea
but when u look at actual kills and compare p3 dps of outlaws to sin rogues
not so sure anymore
hollow escarp
wtf, top 32 kills as outlaw are all chinese 
well rank 1 outlaw has 100 more dps than rank 1 sin
in phase 3
but there are only 12 sin rogues that killed Sire
hollow escarp
my biased opinion makes me believe that if a pool of 12 people can get close to the best of 270 people, sin is more valuable
tropic ocean
not sure if thats statistical holdable
tropic ocean
dont think need to convince anyone about anything play what your roster needs
or what you are good with
just need to stop twisting logs and arguments to fit whatever smallest niche I want my spec to be in
like the argument that is used now to justify assassination
was the exact argument that was used to nullify outlaw last tier
š
hollow escarp
oh well, if we look at Heroic where we have more data
the things are already different
best sin log is 300 more dps in p3 than best outlaw
distant cypress
What ya mean, I play sin in heroic and its pog
stoic needle
Why would you not not play the best spec for the fight
distant cypress
stoic needle
Except it's better than outlaw on the parts of the fight that actually matter
Just because outlaw is better at padding in p1 doesn't mean it's better than sin on denathrius
tropic ocean
better at paddin
outlaw is #1 boss dmg in heroic sire 2
but as I said, will always find a niche to fit own opinion in
infact if we still talk about heroic sire, if p3 matters
sub is good too
hollow escarp
every spec is good
daring pecan
I thought Whispyr simmed p3 damage and sin was quite ahead of outlaw 
tropic ocean
yeah, sim
proper sage
you can't compete with execute damage
tropic ocean
you cant?
hollow escarp
well, when we talked about mythic parses "not enough data" and when we talked about HC "definetely not worth to play sin" 
stoic needle
Huh, that's interesting
proper sage
and if i talk about the actual logs done on that fight with sims
tropic ocean
what sim
proper sage
im assuming
stoic needle
stoic needle
Says here you're wrong 
proper sage
kk dude
hollow escarp
that's why everybody needs to stop doing damage in P1, because pad damage is so important
hollow escarp
he is not
tropic ocean
yes lol
hollow escarp
tropic ocean
yep
stoic needle
Sin has the highest execute damage in the game full stop come 9.0.5, and atm it's pretty much even with unholy and warrior
Outlaw can't touch that
proper sage
LMAOOOOOOO
tropic ocean
and we good
strange python
tropic ocean
cuz 20k dmg in p3
vestal wren
outlaw has a higher variance, this could make it hard to conclude anything from wcl
keep in mind that assassination also only has ~16 logs
proper sage
hey guys outlaw does more damage than sin in p3 here look at these heroic logs 43 months into a tier
tropic ocean
yeah scroll up
proper sage
or
tropic ocean
I just responded
proper sage
do you just like to troll
hollow escarp
vestal wren
best bet is probably to look at those players who brought assassination and compare it to the damage in the log they did before
tropic ocean
oh well, if we look at Heroic where we have more data
i responded to this
but if u cant follow a conversation better start insulting
vestal wren
bc. that could make a argument that switching could make sense for either consistency or output
hollow escarp
well, I only killed sire hc as outlaw once
gusty kestrel
hollow escarp
since I started playing sin I can't go back
outer lotus
stoic needle
Sin has more boss damage in heroic and mythic, what are you even saying
hollow escarp
tbf, the argument was only about execute initially
stoic needle
Yes
normal mist
vestal wren
the extrema is higher
vestal wren
outlaw has a higher variance, this could make it hard to conclude anything from wcl
keep in mind that assassination also only has ~16 logs
^ consider this
i would neither conclude that assassination is the best pick nor that its not a great pick from only the #1 log of both
hollow escarp
hollow escarp
trying to type something and keep pressing Enter instead of '
strange python
crimson palm
tender fjord
Even tho Doomblade will be mvp for ST/raid coming 9.0.5 i guess Zoldyck will stay the go-to leggo for m+ correct?
tropic ocean
y
tender fjord
Those r4ās are too darn expensive to not make sure š
tropic ocean
the gold cost?
hollow escarp
yeah, all leather and mail are expensive because of callous hide price
reef axle
Thinking zolds prob still be go to for raid too honestly.
tropic ocean
probably yeah
theres not many pure st fights
but luckily u can switch betweem them so good to have both
frozen jasper
Iām just happy there is an alternative to try out even tho zold remains high in value for both raid and m+
tropic ocean
i try to just see it as a bonus rather than a competitor
it will complement my zoldyck for st fights
basically
sturdy shale
the title says 9.0.5 PTR
onyx wind
yes
celest ruin
Whats this outlaw vs sin on sire stuff
onyx wind
Surely this must be changes from last build
daring pecan
it's changes from last build
late birch
The note says Scoundrel best ST leggo but everyone going Zold on logs
spice spire
The note says Scoundrel best ST leggo but everyone going Zold on logs
Itās a 10 DPS difference on ST then swings to zoldyck on any target more than one. Thatās why everyone went Zold.
late birch
Ah makes sense
loud niche
did they increase flag dmg again?
steep current
Is there any information about 9.0.5 release date?
sharp stump
Can rogues immune night hunter in phase 1 denathrius any way via cloak or evasion?
daring pecan
no
tender fjord
where is the flag changes at the cov ability for assassins?
It says āremovedā next to it? Did they undo it al?
willow mason
What talents you guys use for tyrn week? 2-2-1-0-0-2-1? or go DT and CT for adds?
tender fjord
What talents you guys use for tyrn week? 2-2-1-0-0-2-1? or go DT and CT for adds...
Iāll try it out a few times to get a better feel but most likely Iāll stick with CT
crimson palm
@balmy condor hi
limber lion
What talents you guys use for tyrn week? 2-2-1-0-0-2-1? or go DT and CT for adds...
The same as Fort weeks tbh. So 2212223
willow mason
Ok thanks š
primal zinc
It says āremovedā next to it? Did they undo it al?
dunno its says removed..dunno whats the new flag
gusty mirage
dunno its says removed..dunno whats the new flag
Rogue
Covenant Abilities
Flagellation (Venthyr) no longer costs Energy (was 20 Energy), duration reduced to 12 seconds (was 20 seconds), Haste is now granted immediately, and no longer has a second activation. Flagellationās initial damage increased by 270%, additional damage from spending combo points increased by 160%, and deals damage 1 time upon use (was 3).
Conduits
Lashing Scars (Venthyr) now causes 4 additional lashes (was 2). This will allow the Rogue to start at 5% Haste upon activation.
From the latest blue post about PTR: https://www.wowhead.com/blue-tracker/topic/us/875072
onyx wind
Yo bros, what stats do i put on my zoldyck?
onyx wind
Alright, thanks
sturdy shale
haste vers is a safe bet if you gonna do any pvp
spice spire
Zoldyck isnāt PVP though lol
primal zinc
doomblade with inferanl bleeding for pvp? or MA with nightstalker for pvp?
limber lion
My cheese opener that I came up with yesterday worked wonders on HC Shriek
Got r1 log at 7.3k dps. Rank 2 is 6.5k
primal zinc
i know jsut asking mate
spice spire
I actually didnāt know š¦ a lot of assassination players in here are pve mainly. If I had the answer Iād give š
Iād think MA/Nightstalker but I donāt wanna spread misinformation because something in a build can change pretty rapidly if x is found to be better
limber lion
Here's the log and timeline:
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/JckrLbdKDPChQN6y#fight=2&type=casts&source=21&view=timeline
primal zinc
duration 1:50
limber lion
MFD 28s, Memory 15s, SnD 2s
primal zinc
at 1:50 im at the same dps with venthyr
spice spire
Thatās very interesting. At 1:50, yeah weāll definitely see an uptick. But you werenāt kidding about the cheese. The MfD double envenom is
limber lion
Triple envenom in MA window :'')
limber lion
Yep
blessed burst window
limber lion
It's so fucking nice
I was literally #1 dps on the opener. Boomies can suck it
:^^)
edgy notch
zoldyck on legs was with crit and haste for pve right?
spice spire
That works
outer cosmos
yo guys, which weapon enchant on MH and OH for Raiding?
does it make a difference with sinful on offhand or mainhand?
drifting cloud
it doesnt
outer cosmos
and the other weapon enchant should be?
glacial cove
Greetings all. First time chatting here. I dont know if I'm reading warcraft logs stats correctly but
Is assa on par or outperforming sub now in raids?
At least in heroic nathria
onyx wind
Afaik it is slightly worse, but it will get buffed in 9.0.5
glacial cove
I see. Ok ok.
clever niche
well, I'm back to assasination guys!
strange python
Whatever for?!
strange python
Gotcha
graceful creek
and now Disney+ has Star, so another reason to switch to Assassination I guess
spice spire
and the other weapon enchant should be?
Celestial by the way
spice spire
Weāre no longer a Netflix spec, weāre a Disney plus spec 
frozen jasper
have jokes regarding Assassination's low APM become too old? š¦
Guess i just didnt understand it lol
normal mist
Was I the only one that felt that pre SL assa rogue was actually pretty smooth and somewhat fast (also playing blindside)?
spice spire
Like prepatch? It would be, you were higher geared - to tier. So you had 40ish% haste and higher stats overall. Itās the first xpac and itās infinitely faster than the start of most expansions
drifting cloud
lucid dreams was a big difference and I didnt even run blindside in prepatch
drifting cloud
oh yeah the minor ofc, lucid major hasnt really been played
outside of few weeks start of EP
primal zinc
does any1 has ptr sims for assassins as night fae and ssins with venthyr?
spice spire
Itās in the pins, but could be incorrect as of now. As flagellation might have changed?
drifting cloud
should be uptodate rn
normal mist
Not me. I'm kinda glad I moved from venth to nfae 2 weeks ago. Which means that if venthyr has a huge upgrade I can just go back at 31 renown already
primal zinc
should be uptodate rn
i mean more like i wanna check them as timers and such
gleaming eagle
doom blade is better for pvp
for that nasty envenoms
but for raiding and m+ you go zold cause in m+ you will be going crimson tempest
and that means less time to do envenoms
onyx wind
Not me. I'm kinda glad I moved from venth to nfae 2 weeks ago. Which means that ...
Yea but u have to do the hard quest to go back
maiden zodiac
does serrated bone spike count as a dot for doomblade?
normal mist
Isn't it a "fill the bar" quest twice (1 each week)? For 2 weeks?
normal mist
does serrated bone spike count as a dot for doomblade?
I highly doubt it
gusty mirage
Isn't it a "fill the bar" quest twice (1 each week)? For 2 weeks?
yep
onyx wind
Does nightstalker not work with ambush?
normal mist
Pretty sure it works with anything that deals dmg
normal mist
But there is no reason to go nightstalker in the first place, is there? 
gusty mirage
I could just tryhard it day before reset and then reset day!
I believe that's the play tbh, you fill it up the day before reset, then do the next quest on reset and switch
normal mist
Exactly. If someone has enough time, he/she can just reach max level with all the covenents pretty fast xD
spice spire
Nightstalker is used in PvP isnāt it?
dull fulcrum
!guide
prisma monolithBOT
spice spire
You need a GIGA amount of haste for exsang to be good. Like currently unobtainable levels of haste
daring pecan
onyx wind
Does garrote not work with nightstalker either?
It does, just the tooltip not updating
Thats so weird XD
ocean drum
how comes bloodmallet says zoldyck is #5 in ST but it's used that much? and is the 30% buff to bloodfang a thing?
normal mist
It does, just the tooltip not updating
Subt garrote is still better tho!
onyx wind
Testing out some stuff on dummies
normal mist
how comes bloodmallet says zoldyck is #5 in ST but it's used that much? and is t...
Zoldyck is an overall best for all scenarios. Good for everything.
onyx wind
Why does ambush deal so little dmg compared to tooltip?
obtuse ruin
when people here saying assa is viable now im assuming its for raids? because no way its decent in m+
tender fjord
Define decent. You can certainly do high keys
obtuse ruin
well viable as in better spec than the other 2 (OL/sub)
im sure it cant keep up with meta classes but amongst rogues
normal mist
Assa might be better than sub and loses to outlaw
tender fjord
If you are good at playing outlaw and enjoy it I agree you should play outlaw in m+
strange python
Dumb question, but how can I get a higher Well-Placed Steel? Still rocking a 200. Gamble with Venari?
onyx wind
Mutilate says 1338 tooltip, deals 1.1k
Ambush says 3k tooltip, deals 2k
Can someone explain this
obtuse ruin
nah I can never play outlaw
onyx wind
Is ambush bugged or smth
obtuse ruin
pretty tired of seeing outlaw as the go to M+ spec for rogue for last 3 years lol
halcyon grail
normal mist
I believe outlaw is the "go" if you want to do more than 15+
onyx wind
Sub is perfectly fine for high keys
tender fjord
I manually log my overall dps per dungeon in a spreadsheet. I do way better as assa, I hate outlaw, think sub is boring. I switched and enjoy it a lot
normal mist
Because you can easily do all +15 as adsa
ocean drum
ty!
tender fjord
But tbh you can play anything you want. Maybe if you want to go 20+ keys you have to go outlaw. But if thatās the case you wouldnāt have asked here
spice spire
Dumb question, but how can I get a higher Well-Placed Steel? Still rocking a 200...
Gamble my guy
tender fjord
Dumb question, but how can I get a higher Well-Placed Steel? Still rocking a 200...
Wait for 9.0.5 or gamble
obtuse ruin
@tender fjord theoretically thats true but after all it just sucks to always be third dps
not talking about assa but rogues in general
tender fjord
Then you have to reroll class I think if youāre only playing with top meta classes
Iām third dps usually but my group says they love me for the cc and silences
split veldt
so fae is still bis, eh?
late bolt
But i still dont understand the ambush thing
my guess would be that the enemy has armor which reduces dmg?
normal mist
As assa my boss dmg is pretty good and my overalls are amazing aswell
onyx wind
Mutilate dmg is reduced by 15% and ambush dmg is reduced by 33%
normal mist
But altought I don't enjoy outlaw that much, I can get better numbers at it
spice spire
what is opener command again?
Do you run subterfuge or master assassin?
onyx wind
Is this a bug?
late birch
MA and Zold
onyx wind
wouldnt u do mutilate-> garrote-> rupture
split veldt
i go MA single target and subter multi target
onyx wind
efter SnD i mean
split veldt
wouldnt u do mutilate-> garrote-> rupture
this is what i do with MA
ocean drum
i really don't understand why subterfuge is competitive or even better than MA in Single Target. like.. i did when we had the garrote azerite trait, but now?
is it due to ambush?
split veldt
i only use subter on multi target fights
spice spire
You can, it depends on what crit procs happen. If it goes 4, itās safe to rupture
Subterfuge still gives garrote a bump up in damage, itās just not as extreme
onyx wind
Sure its "safe" to rupture, but wouldnt u always want to use garrote
split veldt
yeah but when you can garrote 4 adds it's pretty good
spice spire
Not necessarily.
onyx wind
Why is it worse
spice spire
100% on any cleave/multi target fight subterfuge feels better.
onyx wind
Lets say you have 4cp after mutilating, why would u not use garrote before rupturing?
I mean in opener
spice spire
Also I didnāt say it was worse I just said not necessarily. You might want to save the GCD to get into your burst window sooner.
onyx wind
You dont save any GCD's
you garrote anyway
You just cast rupture 1 global later
You dont lose any energy either
And you have to refresh garrote in vendetta either way aswell
spice spire
Which offsets the time your burst window starts by one GCD. because youāll garrote anyway, you can stack it to go toward the envenom with a refresher later down the line
onyx wind
So you dont garrote before vendetta?
spice spire
Rupture refresher sooner, but after the big burst window on the initial vendetta. I usually garrote before vendetta.
spice spire
Yes, you can still garrote before vendetta. The second you pop rupture, you donāt have to immediately pop vendetta lol.
onyx wind
Your argument was that u save a GCD before entering vendetta
worn path
Itās not like bfa when it was all about insane haste and getting a full exang bleed out during vandetta
spice spire
Because you want to vendetta right before you start the envenom train, right? So by offsetting that rupture by one, youāre starting later. You can then after rupture do a Garrote > mut> shiv > vendetta/trinket/pot/whatever you need here>envenom
onyx wind
So basically its valuing getting a 5cp eviscerate off in vendetta higher than 5cp rupture before vendetta
But its still a gamble nonetheless
spice spire
Correct.
onyx wind
Since you might reach 5cp without garrote
And since ur using it before mutilate/shiv theres no actualy benefit
I mean there is but
You might also waste CP
spice spire
Thatās why I said not necessarily, because itās not necessarily right or wrong depending on the situation and how it unfolds
onyx wind
Sure but thats why im asking specific scenarios
worn path
Opener only really matters that you have all your bleeds up for the full duration of vandetta, with a shiv window and two + envenoms during it
onyx wind
I guess since im kyrian i should do Mut>SnD>Mut>Garrote>Rup>Mut>Kyrian>Shiv>burst
Might be worth saving kyrian for vanish window
Not sure
spice spire
Thatās also a good point. Iāve not worked with the kyrian Ability so I canāt really say if thatās better for the vanish window. I know sepsis is kinda whatever for MA
limber lion
Opener only really matters that you have all your bleeds up for the full duratio...
Well depends on the fight length, which legendary you use and what talents. But generally yeah.
worn path
Well depends on the fight length, which legendary you use and what talents. But ...
Iām assuming heās running zoldyks
onyx wind
Sure, nice sparring with you @spice spire
But seriously, am i insane or is ambush dmg/tooltip bugged
spice spire
It might be. It should just be 95% AP. So tip could be bugged?
onyx wind
It states 2.9k dmg in tooltip, it deals 2k dmg on dummy
spice spire
Also it was a good exercise for showing logic on why I do something. It was introspective, it was a nice time.
strange python
They are stacking vers
normal mist
Does mut have the 2 part in the recount? (Both dagger hits)?
onyx wind
Yea
normal mist
And you are calculating the both hits and still have those low numbers?
onyx wind
Yes i am calculating both hits
onyx wind
Either mutilate is doing 15% more dmg than it should
or ambush is doing 15% less dmg than it should
or the tooltips are bugged i guess
onyx wind
Yea looks like ambush tooltip is just bugged
Prob a lot of small bugs that didnt get fixed cause noone played the spec XD
gentle gyro
should i re-craft DS on boots or just roll with the 190 cloak I have it on right now.....man why did I even do that
gentle gyro
Prob a lot of small bugs that didnt get fixed cause noone played the spec XD
"no one" is an understatement
worn path
Lmfao omg that rank
gentle gyro
rank 4 on the realm with 850 rio, duh
worn path
Imagine being 858 io and being sub 1000 world
gentle gyro
i wanna do KSM on my sin rogue
vocal sierra
Is MA the best m+ legwndary?
onyx wind
and i guess the people who were playing assa werent the minmaxers aswell
vocal sierra
For Assa*
mint hinge
Are we talking about understatements? :D
gentle gyro
I do
kind veldt
Itās not hard to get IO, must peoole wonāt inspect your spec till itās too late to kick you
Lol
Most*
So if you already have a decent IO, they are going to invite you
gentle gyro
i can hold my own and i don't worry about getting invites, main is 1.4k score
vocal sierra
Because the Stats are changing in m+ from what ive seen on icy veins
Going for Haste as worst Stat
sand ridge
best covanant for pvp?
gentle gyro
i primarily raid with my rogue
onyx wind
What are u assa rogues pulling in overall in m+?
Lets say DoS or some dungeon with AoE
mint hinge
Zoldyck
Gains more value the higher the key
I'm doing ~5k overall
Depending on other dps
Pulls and stuff
onyx wind
Fortified or tyrannical
mint hinge
Both, doesn't really matter
vocal sierra
Do you think the SnD Change will be a Buff or Nerf?
vocal sierra
And will Haste become will less Valuable?
gentle gyro
buff definitely
onyx wind
Whats ur opener on an AoE pack as assa?
bleak sedge
by the way when my sepsis procs what ability do i use? Ambush? or do i ingore it and mutilate
onyx wind
Playing CT and MFD
bleak sedge
Playing CT and MFD
subterfuge or MA?
onyx wind
Both :3
limber lion
I got rank 1 parses on heroic and someone said "you'll be rank 1 when there's just 1 person playing the spec."
š¢
We need more poisonbleed boys
limber lion
Exterminate the Outlaw's
onyx wind
its kinda funny XD
bleak sedge
with subt its probably:
garrote on 3 targets then fan and CT
then mfd and rupture before you continue with fan into rupture onto other targets
limber lion
Honestly if you have a good group and decent gear, you'll be parsing pretty well.
bleak sedge
with MA no idea
limber lion
You don't wanna run MA in aoe.
onyx wind
Do you ever refresh garrote in AoE?
spice spire
With MA itās probably fan > CT > Fan > rupture everyone up with your normal stuff.
But I donāt think MA is the play
bleak sedge
yes use on all targets and refresh
worn path
Lmao wtf did you zero phase the boss? @limber lion
bleak sedge
but im no expert so take it with a grain of salt š
spice spire
Youād vanish refresh or refresh as it came up. But I donāt think many packs will be living unless you GIGA pull or are in 16/17s. I also pull 4.1-5.2k in M+, it really depends on how long the packs survive
limber lion
Lmao wtf did you zero phase the boss? <@165215952479322112>
Yes, no intermission.
onyx wind
I do 6-7k as sub in m+
limber lion
I also used the opener that I came up with yesterday which uses double on-use trinkets, MA lege, Nightstalker, EP and MFD.
onyx wind
Plus we have prio dmg for prides
limber lion
It's very cheesy and not recommended for most situations xd
worn path
Yes, no intermission.
Yeah worth it when you only get one window of vendetta
limber lion
Yeah and because the fight is so short. Don't get much value out of Zoldy anyways
Just need to pummel as much damage as you can on the first Vendetta
limber lion
Exactly
I used 30s pulltimer and used MFD at 28s, Memory at 15s, SnD at 3s
Doesn't really work with pugs because most of them don't want to sit 30s for a pull lmao
Unless of course if you're leading, like I was.
onyx wind
Was a lot better before they fixed memories
limber lion
I like the build, it works really well on short, pure ST encounters.
Got a rank 1 on HD with it as well.
I'm just happy that I'll be above Peen tomorrow on HC leaderboards.
onyx wind
Dw fotm rerollers are coming for ur parses
limber lion
Won't ever happen on Mythic though because we're fully extending until Sire dies, which is in like a month or so. So rip
limber lion
Dw fotm rerollers are coming for ur parses
I HOPE
spice spire
You really hit āem with the 190 master assassin
limber lion
I legit hope that more players would play Assa
So we wouldn't get flamed every single time
limber lion
I'm getting benched for Generals because I play Assa and don't have Outlaw gear.
rip
dark vigil
tell em to suck your nuts
worn path
Sins good for generals?
onyx wind
Judging by the way sin plays, its prob one of the worst specs for generals
spice spire
Tell them your cleave is GIGA 
onyx wind
in the game
limber lion
Sin is awesome, I'm top 3 damage. Especially for execute phase, I'd probably be #1.
BUT
Sin doesn't have any upfront damage to deal with the shields that happen
limber lion
You need to kill the add shields before they explode
worn path
I mean neither does outlaw
onyx wind
Outlaw has some cleave
limber lion
They're taking 2 DH's instead. š¢
spice spire
onyx wind
but i honestly think MA sub is better
limber lion
Yeah MA sub is kinda crazy for that kind of thing
Vanish > BP > SS > BP > SS > BP is huge
Or play Sectec and add that in there
onyx wind
U would prob play sectec too yea
limber lion
You can say that again
onyx wind
what is night fae ability CD?
limber lion
Yeah, I played it up to the latest Assa patch. It was decent in the beginning
dark vigil
1 min 30
onyx wind
Boring
dark vigil
its good tho
dark vigil
yes because you have random cp generations
dark vigil
when i played kyrian there were times where my kyrian cd came up again before i got to use the animacharge
because i kept getting weird number of cp
spice spire
Soulbinds sold me on NF.
onyx wind
Theres no way that happens
U mustve missed a cast or smth
Its 2-4 cp
So u have to hit one single mutilate for that amount
during 45sec
XD
dark vigil
and with burrs im pretty sure nf is better for sub anyways
onyx wind
Or fill in with garrote
spice spire
Seal fate
dark vigil
seal fate makes kyrian ability really weird
for sin
you can get 2 3 or 4 cp from mutiliate
onyx wind
I dont think u actually play burrs
dark vigil
for sub? im pretty sure u do
yea
you do
burrs is stronger than any of your conduits
you'd go planned execution and burrs
why we talkin about sub anyways
onyx wind
planned exe + burrs is 15th combination on herodamage
cant sim it myself cause im kyrian
onyx wind
Look at the max ilvl of stiletto sim
dark vigil
yeah that doesnt make sense
but if you were to follow the trend it'd be like a 3% boost at 226
which is still lower than burrs
onyx wind
Yea i suppose the poisons thing is a simtrap
dark vigil
but if it can make shadowblades have an impactful cd reduction for certain mechanics or phases
onyx wind
didnt actually look at the abilities themselves
tribal marlin
It's because of syncing issue
dark vigil
then it'd be good
onyx wind
in the API u mean?
tribal marlin
yeah
onyx wind
Dont u get to ~1:50 with 226 stiletto
tribal marlin
something like this yeah
tribal marlin
with higher / empowered conduit
you might be able to sync it with Seps/Flag every 1:30
onyx wind
since SB lasts 20sec
onyx wind
Its still better until 9.0.5 B)
dark vigil
even right now
limber lion
Tried a HC huntsman with assa tho
It's a fun fight!
dark vigil
why is imgur embed so fucked lately
onyx wind
Sure assa does dmg its just
I feel like most fights are designed for either outlaw or sub to be better by design
maybe outside of denathrius
onyx wind
Its important, but its also a skewed statistic
dark vigil
uh
tender fjord
Anyone here had any experience with the shadowgrasp totem trinket?
onyx wind
Yep it sucks
Compared to raid trinkets atleast
@dark vigil Look at the individual fights, and check dmg to bosses
tender fjord
First time I took the trouble of getting all my m+ vault slots to 226 and all three options suck ass š¦
dark vigil
lol
onyx wind
its just carried by 2x stone legio parses XD
and sub is held back by it
if u look at individual fights, sub never loses to assa
dark vigil
uhh
onyx wind
Stone legion
And the way the overall statistics are weighted, this will skew it massively
same thing that happened to feral
dark vigil
far ahead on council, far ahead on huntmsna, far ahead on denathrius,
ahead on xymox
ahead on hungering
onyx wind
what are u sorting by
onyx wind
95 or 99
onyx wind
Go 99
dark vigil
no
onyx wind
Nah rogues dont get PI
onyx wind
I legit went and checked top10 on all bosses some time ago
dark vigil
should never sort by 99 parses cause of shenanigans
solar hare
Sub getting pi 
onyx wind
and better on denathrius for sure, cause execute
dark vigil
onyx wind
Yep
dark vigil
feral is pretty trash with pi
bleak sedge
Tried a HC huntsman with assa tho
best fight in raid
onyx wind
ye its pretty much tailored for assa
solar hare
dark vigil
@limber lion show him the sin stats for dmg to bosses on mythic generals
and he'll unbench you
tribal marlin
I did some sims to compare to that guy's sheet, if you add the Seps/Vend sync (and Seps at all actually) Rogue is ~420 on parse with other top target
solar hare
tribal marlin
It's still better on Hunter
solar hare
Its also like
tribal marlin
and miles away better on UH during Army
dark vigil
yeah
solar hare
Is like
dark vigil
unholy with army is insane on pi
solar hare
Really bad and outdated
onyx wind
Pretty sure it isnt calculated with covenants
solar hare
My friend is a top demo lock and literally cant sim because the api plays the class wrong 
slow marsh
I have a lock in my guild that just swapped to demo. He pumps so hard I don't understand
solar hare
Its insane
drifting cloud
its really not, its just not bad
dark vigil
theres no point in playing it when affi exists
drifting cloud
you can say the same thing for 10 other specs
solar hare
Yeah obvi
dark vigil
sadly
slow marsh
I mean we are in sin channel and outlaw exists
dark vigil
yeah but sin has a niche that outlaw doesnt have
demo doesnt do anything special really other than faster target switching
onyx wind
There is no best rogue spec
dark vigil
which isnt even a niche
onyx wind
They have niches they fill
It depends on the fight
Prob not gonna be worth playing sub at all tho if assa gets buffed
onyx wind
Its good on a lot of fights
onyx wind
^
dark vigil
sin is very far ahead on council
slow marsh
Oof I'm sorry I mean destroy xD
dark vigil
sun king is a meme
drifting cloud
do you even raid mythic
slow marsh
Destro lock pumps hard
onyx wind
Outlaw does high boss damage while also cleaving
dark vigil
yeah outlaw is great
onyx wind
Sub has good prio and AoE burst
slow marsh
Outlaw is good not great
onyx wind
Assa has execute and good cleave
slow marsh
DK is great
onyx wind
But buffing assa to overtake sub on pure ST is kinda dumb
gusty mirage
Outlaw is good not great
Thatās been the class problem, none of our specs are āgreatā 
onyx wind
Theyre not garbage either
slow marsh
Thatās been the class problem, none of our specs are āgreatā <:SucksMan:58620546...
Exactly. That's what people don't seem to understand
gusty mirage
Yeah but we bring nothing to raid except for our damage
So
And I guess shroud to let DKs destroy us on the meters faster 
onyx wind
XD
gusty mirage
We started mythic prog with 3 rogues, Iām the only one left standing
onyx wind
Yea theres kinda no reason to play rogues in raids
dark vigil
oh yeah for sure
classes with utility and raid utility should be doing less dmg to compensate for that
and classes with no utility should be at the top
onyx wind
I dont think so honestly
slow marsh
Yeah I mean DH is actually bad but even they get a spot if you don't have a vengeance tank
dark vigil
buit blizzard doesnt balance that way
onyx wind
You want to play DK and you want to pump
I dont think you should inherently do less dmg
onyx wind
Just nerf their utility instead
dark vigil
thats one way to go about it
but kind of a bad way
the idea in a perfect world is if your healers are goated and you don't need the raid utility as much to squeeze out extra dmg
you take a big pumping spec that doesnt have utility
to potentially skip some mechanics or phase faster
onyx wind
sure, but i dont think UH DK in any way should be a support class
dark vigil
but blizzard doesnt balance specs that way
onyx wind
i dont think anyone wants that
dark vigil
they kinda already fell down to that though
slow marsh
It has nothing to do with UH
dark vigil
their overall dmg has suffered as ilvls have increased
slow marsh
It's DK in general with ams amz
dark vigil
but yeah it broadens to more than just dk
slow marsh
Is really good this tier
dry shadow
hey, which piece should i go for for leg? shoulders or hands?
slow marsh
Uhhhh
dark vigil
because of the utilty
dry shadow
wdym
dark vigil
dry shadow
i prob wont
slow marsh
UH is firmly the top melee damage and slightly gets beat by frost
dark vigil
yeah ww unholy and frost dk are the king of melee right now
well, feral too i suppose but it doesnt bring anything
kinda falls in the same problem of rogues right now
but it does way more dmg
dry shadow
thanks
onyx wind
you forgot warrior
slow marsh
I mean feral owlweave is the way to go and it's top druid spec in general
dark vigil
warrior is pretty meh right now
onyx wind
Not if you count their raid utility
dark vigil
they've gotten better
slow marsh
Warrior is better than rogue
dark vigil
yea
onyx wind
which you should, according to you XD
dark vigil
they are
im talking about pure dmg though
unholy ww and frost dk are the top of dmg and they also bring raid utility
which shouldnt be the case
they should be along the lines of where warriors are right now
dark vigil
yeah
with kyrian frost is simming better than unholy now even on ST
with breath too
so it has insane aoe
and st
slow marsh
True but that's using bos
dark vigil
BoS is simming better than obliterate or icecap for st for some reason
slow marsh
Because technically it is better
dark vigil
and then if you include that it's better on st. it's bonkers on aoe
dark vigil
it's insane on generals
just not many people have played iut
on public logs anyways
watched some streams of ppl playing frost on reclears
from limit and stuff
frost was pumping hard
mage and dk
slow marsh
Yeah I mean reclears are pointless though
gentle gyro
i had to doublecheck in which discord I am right now
rough scaffold
FUCK. guys. i need hlp. I want to pvp - DO i wait a week and upgade MA to 235 or do I build the 190 doomblade? I want to do twos
slow marsh
i had to doublecheck in which discord I am right now
Typical rogue vs dk comparison
rough scaffold
Oh ty didnt know
gentle gyro
dk has cloak but with half the cd and is basically mandatory for xymox
onyx wind
gonna play assa on reclear today and compare to sub
marble bear
Pretty sure assasin is so low on the logs because....it has barely any data
dark vigil
sin is pretty high on logs actually for most fights
marble bear
sin fun though
onyx wind
Just go assa so u have a chance at getting PI š
dull cloak
+ deals more damage
if the rogue player does more damage than the dk player.
dark vigil
this rn is state of "damage to bosses" at 95th percentile
its a little skewed, sin prob clsoer to unholy
but no point in bringing it over unholy
slow marsh
There's adds on more than half the raid
slow marsh
Uh....
onyx wind
What does aggregate using normalized scores mean
slow marsh
What are you on mythic?
opaque sparrow
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's:
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
dull cloak
why would excluding generals help on boss damage data lmao
dark vigil
damage to bosses is what clears fights more than anything, only exception probably is generals where boss dmg is pretty non important
since goliath and skirmisher pushing is whats gonna fuck you
slow marsh
K I have to take a break you two are making my head hurt
covert stratus
is it even worth to craft a 190 lego, replacing a 226?
covert stratus
right. so I'm better off just using MA as assa?
covert stratus
right thanks a lot ā¤ļø
stoic needle
covert stratus
ikr
dark vigil
onyx wind
Wish rupture actually did dmg
dark vigil
yeah
it feels more like
energy regen with a little bit extra dmg
and garrote feels like dmg with some energy regen
if that makes sense
stoic needle
Idk about y'all but rupture is usually my 4th highest damage
dark vigil
it should be closer to garrote imo
should be like third or second
make my rupture do 50k dmg per second 
past jolt
Hi there, Zoldyck is better with leg than feet right ?
dark vigil
yes
past jolt
thanks
stoic needle
With cttc we will get even more envenom dmg which is nice
5% more aura buff pls blizzard
dark vigil
95th and 75th
onyx wind
^
onyx wind
Not how a spec is performing, how the players are performing
gentle gyro
people get fed multiple PIs, either ignore adds completely OR get the adds for themselves basically
onyx wind
And with a low sample size its so skewed man
dark vigil
that is the 99th percentile
and max
where it's skewed
by pi and such
95th isnt as much
gentle gyro
also sample size at that level is absurdly low for specs like sin rogue
dark vigil
but thats why you also compare to 75th
onyx wind
u realize there are 30 people playing assa in mythic right
there are only 2 parses on generals
dark vigil
you do also realize that parses also rank against non public
gentle gyro
i feel like talking to someone that argues about winrates in league of legends at challenger level
dark vigil
gentle gyro
it has 0 value
ionic fox
I haven't gotten a single PI.... * have a 97 avg. Most guilds aren't PI'ing rogues for parses lol
onyx wind
Bro there are 2
stoic needle
Well the rank 1 player is literally rank 1 because he gets pi on every fight
onyx wind
Legit 2 parses
dark vigil
do you know how the ranking of a parse works
limber lion
Well the rank 1 player is literally rank 1 because he gets pi on every fight
That's not true.
dark vigil
like what determines a 100 and a 95
limber lion
Peen literally does not get PI on a single boss.
dark vigil
even if theres only 2 parses