assassination

[stoic needle]

Yeah I didn't

[balmy condor]

scent of blood was kinda like that

was pretty good azerite for m+

[stoic needle]

I played hunter in bfa for a week or two and just went to classic

[balmy condor]

it gave agility for each ruptured target

[stoic needle]

Damn that would be sick

Where did our class designer go

[stark heart]

To work on HS

[balmy condor]

yeah

he got moved to Hearthstone

[stoic needle]

Are you fucking kidding me

[balmy condor]

I'd say like 80% of my dm's with koji are just talking about jank stuff and koji complaining about filthy rogue interns

we all miss him man

[daring pecan]

filthy hobbitses

[faint harness]

are these interns actually real

or just a meme

[balmy condor]

not sure

I would assume these interns aren't really interns

but they're not like rogue designers or something

[faint harness]

dont think there are any rogue designers

[balmy condor]

yeh that's the point

[faint harness]

[balmy condor]

did you know that envenom doesn't pandemic anymore

[faint harness]

I did not

intended change?

[balmy condor]

highly doubt

[stark heart]

there never was a rogue designer

[balmy condor]

considering envenom has pandemic'd since the inception of the two

for like

[faint harness]

Sephuz is/was?

[balmy condor]

the last 10 years

[stoic needle]

You know

[stark heart]

you think Seph worked only on rogues?

[faint harness]

No but he knows rogue

[stoic needle]

I never thought that I could hate hearthstone more than I already do

And yet here I am

[faint harness]

He actually plays a rogue

so he is a "rogue designer"

[stark heart]

wish we had 1 designer per class

[faint harness]

yea its not even close

[balmy condor]

I think we should get more diablo devs

who's with me

[faint harness]

after watcing that kaleiki vid

he said they were only 2 class designers when he started

him and another dude

[stoic needle]

Jesus fuck

[faint harness]

and that was in wotlk

not sure how much has changed

but kinda dire

he himself had expectations of a group of people that could sit down and discuss classes together

and got to work and theres one dude

[faint harness]

cant have enough

There is another ex-blizzard class dev that said they were 4 ppl in MoP (ish)

the guy who made warlocks insanely OP

[stoic needle]

This is making me sad lol

[faint harness]

i mean what did you expect

1 per class?

[stoic needle]

Guess I'm naive

[faint harness]

the shadow priest rework was this Kaleiki guys last dev work on wow

prob cus he mained a priest himself

🙂

very cool

[stoic needle]

[faint harness]

dev bias apparently a thing

[stoic needle]

My friend who knows a bunch of blizzard employees said that cata raids were whack because ghostcrawler was on his way out and was basically being hitler on the design team

Taking absolutely 0 criticism about his decisions

[faint harness]

people are often nostalgic about GC

for very few good reasons imo

[stoic needle]

Dude was a dick

[faint harness]

he was disliked at the time and it was not because he was a public figure as the story goes these days

he made a bunch of decisions on wow design that led to LFR and ease of access

prob watered it out a lot and fucked the game forever

he still holds LFR as his like biggest achievement or some shit

very cool my dood

[stoic needle]

The league of legends mmo is gonna be a dumpster fire

[faint harness]

nah dude, every dev that left blizzard on their own volition are always super skilled

[stoic needle]

It's kinda fitting that he would end up at riot

[outer pivot]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination WA's:
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)

[hollow escarp]

I'm gonna craft dashing next week

[stark heart]

flag + xsang flowed nice until I recalled I also have Shiv

I dunno if anyone actually playtested that

[hollow escarp]

I don't have exsang keybind yet

[stoic needle]

Doomblade tho

[hollow escarp]

I should have made Master Assassin, but I don't plan to play outlaw in M+ soon and also Necrotic Wake is getting fixed in 9.0.5

[tough wren]

and trinkets getting nerfed along with the "fix"

[hollow escarp]

I guess they still work with the Master Assassin talent

but I don't play that in M+ anyway

[tough wren]

it says only white hits and abilities will work with MA

[hollow escarp]

the legendary

[tough wren]

misread, mb

[hollow escarp]

np

[balmy condor]

they don't

[hollow escarp]

so my 30k dreadfire vessel hits were just lucky crits?

[balmy condor]

pretty sure mat is whitelisted

just like mal will be

[hollow escarp]

I thought it was affected so I always made sure to press vessel during MA talent window

[balmy condor]

yeh no

unless there's some undocumented change since BFA about it

it doesn't affect trinkets

[hollow escarp]

wasn't aware, I guess the trinket is likely to crit often

or maybe it's just me only noticing it when it does dam

[faint harness]

@balmy condor how necessary is it to pool before shiv to get 3 envenoms?

[balmy condor]

is this serious question

[faint harness]

its based on a general discussion topic

so yes

[balmy condor]

aha

it is not

[faint harness]

alright

[balmy condor]

pooling = good

but not giga

better to slam on cd than wait for pool

[faint harness]

alright

so for a new player

its better to just slam it

[balmy condor]

oh for sure

you can probably log 95's without ever pooling once

[faint harness]

i think its hard, cus do we tell people the not 100% min/maxy way of playing something

for the sake of ease

or do you tell em the true way of dealing dps and let em learn it the hard way

[balmy condor]

it's definitely a difficult balance

cause if we're being completely accurate right

you don't pool on shiv

you pool on envenom

[faint harness]

sounds more confusing

[balmy condor]

yeah

the idea is that you don't envenom unless you're going to overcap

instead of trying to pool on shiv

so you're technically just always pooling by default

[faint harness]

i see

unless you've played rogue for a while i think thats gonna be hard

[balmy condor]

also naturally just fixes the envenom uptime problem or whatever

[faint harness]

to resist the urge

[balmy condor]

I mean I've played rogue for a while

and I still just slam

[faint harness]

last time i played assa (bfa) it wasnt necessary to pool ever

so havent really played around it yet

[hollow escarp]

depends on how new you are at the game, when I first watched rogue guides they always talked about pooling in Legion and I got used to it without having previous pve experience with other specs

[faint harness]

pooling has always been overstated too

[tropic ocean]

u pooled in bfa 3/4 contents too

[balmy condor]

pooling on shiv is like, kind of a min-max middle ground

cause it's not like full min-max

[faint harness]

❎

[tropic ocean]

yes

[balmy condor]

but it's still sorta easy enough to understand

[tropic ocean]

until nyalotha

[faint harness]

no

you did not

[tropic ocean]

where u were gcd capped mostly

ye u did w/e

[faint harness]

if you pooled in EP

it was because you wanted to

not cus of any gains

[hollow escarp]

is this the thing rogues hate the most about playing assa?

[faint harness]

you probably played around elaborate too

[tropic ocean]

some do some dont

[faint harness]

nah

[tropic ocean]

i liked haste stack playstyle, many others dont

[hollow escarp]

I see, assa was always my favorite so I couldn't relate

[faint harness]

i disliked nyalotha assa

at least the expedient version

[hollow escarp]

it was a bit degen

I was casually playing so only got tentacle and crit corruptions, didn't get enough expedient

[tropic ocean]

tentacle was nice

play w/e and either hit r1 or not

[faint harness]

you get so much haste, but it doesnt feel like the dmg increased a lot

spamming mutilates

[hollow escarp]

it doesn't feel bad

but jumping from that to SL first season

[tropic ocean]

the dmg profile was actually pretty similar to tb assa except with higher apm

play around tb windows or play around exsang

just that u had more apm between

mutilate was just like

press smth to not overcap

but not "really" relevant for the dmg

[faint harness]

well its ur main builder

so you're naturally gonna use it a lot

regardless of dmg

[viral meadow]

is there a way to speed up the covenant renown on ptr? or do I gotta level it up

[faint harness]

you gotta do it the normal way

[dense hamlet]

wait u have to level up renown 1 by 1 on ptr?

its not like tournoment realms so u go just buy anything u want and test it

?

[hollow escarp]

you can only copy characters

it's just like Beta

actually on beta you could have templates

[dense hamlet]

well i didnt play beta

[faint harness]

its not like beta either

[hollow escarp]

@viral meadow if there is something you wanna check on Night Fae or Venthyr, I could have a look

[faint harness]

you actually have to just do it the normal way

[hollow escarp]

I have 34 renown on NF and 26 on my alt venthyr

[dense hamlet]

do u still have the limits that are in the live game

[faint harness]

yes

[hollow escarp]

yes

[dense hamlet]

well fuck that

what

[faint harness]

yea its fucking awful for testing

[dense hamlet]

why not just make it like tournoment realms

[faint harness]

but some people treat the PTR as a game in itself

[dense hamlet]

its ptr afterall

well the more u know

[hollow escarp]

they seem to use testing servers as a marketing strategy mostly

like streamers having access to beta earlier than top raiders or pvp-ers makes it obvious

I'm glad they have a good QA team so they don't need external testing

[wanton comet]

@hollow escarp with the changes on PTR you liking NF or Vent more for sin?

[hollow escarp]

not gonna lie, I haven't tested venthyr yet

just wanted to see how cut the chase looks like

now that I think about it, Venthyr ability looks interesting

[wanton comet]

Ah okay fair enough.

[hollow escarp]

should look into it

[wanton comet]

Be interesting to see if the ability alone is worth just for the haste.

[hollow escarp]

well, my input on that would just be "it feels good" or not, I would wait for numbers from theorycrafters

[faint harness]

its kinda nice to play with tbh

6 min dummy slam on ptr

had 14% uptime on big haste

and 14% on the ramping haste

which should be a decent amount of haste on avg

[viral meadow]

just wanted to sim the current flag vs my sepsis

[balmy condor]

you can sim that through top gear

[hollow escarp]

you can do that

[viral meadow]

i can't find an option to enable PTR

sorry

[hollow escarp]

ohh

[viral meadow]

i meant the current PTR flag

[balmy condor]

well simulationcraft doesn't have PTR flag implemented anyway

[viral meadow]

ahh

that's what it is

thats what you meant by flag isnt ready yet

[balmy condor]

but you would use the line ptr=1 to do that, would have to be in an advanced sim and all that

[viral meadow]

not that it wasn't up on the server

I'll just wait till it is. no doubt this discord will light up once it's ready

[balmy condor]

yeah I gotchu

[viral meadow]

[balmy condor]

there's a pin already in for 9.0.5 stuff

that'll be updated and an attached sim as well

[viral meadow]

yeah, nothing in numbers yet

[quaint phoenix]

@balmy condor just implement it sim yourself, i heard its easy😅

In*

[balmy condor]

I have done C++ stuff in the past

but I'd rather leave it to the actual devs :)

they're quick enough with updates anyway

[quaint phoenix]

I was the who asked oshoshi why he didnt just implement it in simc

[balmy condor]

I know :P

[quaint phoenix]

Im jking🤣

But rn its kinda frustrating to use vendetta imo

Was fun with lucid dreams

Just smashing envenoms

[balmy condor]

vendetta felt worse to me in bfa

because it was on the gcd

(our apm is just as high as it was in EP btw)

[quaint phoenix]

You cant compare Ep Ld vendetta to now

[balmy condor]

Watch me

[quaint phoenix]

But I agree on sin feeling smooth

[balmy condor]

[quaint phoenix]

[hollow escarp]

the f word

[quaint phoenix]

Sin is kinda underrated tho, ppl are genuinly thinking im out of my mind for playing it

[hollow escarp]

I was expecting that but people I met were happy to see sin performing

[balmy condor]

Well you have to understand

We’ve gotten buffed 3 times and have a buff coming in 9.0.5

So people who haven’t been on the up and up

Don’t realize that we’ve gone from 0 to slightly playable

You might even hear from some youtubers that sin is “scaling” because it started off really weak and is now becoming fairly good

And that’s basically nonsense because it’s literally just buffs

Community perception around Assassination in general is just really weird

[quaint phoenix]

But parsing well on sin is hilariously easy, since nobody is playing it

[balmy condor]

I’m not actually sure about that tbh

[hollow escarp]

wouldn't say nobody

there are 140 better sin rogues than me

[quaint phoenix]

Lel

[balmy condor]

When you do a fight, and the only people doing it on sin are the sweaty sin OTP’s

And you get top 5

And don’t parse a 90

Cause no one plays it

That’s kinda sucky

[quaint phoenix]

Oh true i was parsing 94 at sun king as top 5 or 6

[hollow escarp]

I got 95 on sun king, never try harding that boss ever again

ohh, heroic btw

[mellow pier]

It doesn’t even count

Tho

[hollow escarp]

I know

but the color

[stark heart]

I love that scaling argument which makes 0 sense

[balmy condor]

Honestly it’s already begun

“Sin was so bad at the start of the expac, but look, it got gear”

I’m scared Lorentz

Hold me

[stark heart]

Hey my spec get 2% less from stats in one raid tier and next one all that doesn't matter because new tuning passes but hey scaling

[balmy condor]

Fire mage conduit is like 13% dps increase and some specs got legendaries that are also 10%

But the 1% difference that’s happening because of stat scaling

That’s the good shit

[stark heart]

It's all ww nonsense that got popularized

[balmy condor]

It’s also hilarious cause both koji and me, and I’m sure many others have shown that sin actually scales weaker than like sub

Or warrior specs

Or other stuff in general

And yet “sin scaling poggers”

[strange python]

ppl that say scaling dont even know what they mean half the time and are just regurgitating something they saw on reddit or a whiny wow forums post

[balmy condor]

51% aura btw

[hollow escarp]

think most mean that we get more stats

[strange python]

i literally saw in an outlaw rogue advice thread someone said that stacking mastery is a high dps gain

i dont think people on there are credible

[balmy condor]

I mean

Depends how hard you’re stacking

[stark heart]

51% aura and yet autos are top damage source still I think

[balmy condor]

Stacking 3000 mastery does seem like a high dps gain

[strange python]

[balmy condor]

Nah, poisons higher and envenom as well with cttc

But it’s definitely close

Envenoms like neck and neck

Depending on how much mastery you got

[stark heart]

Imagine your abilities practically just being amps for autos

[balmy condor]

[hollow escarp]

moba style

auto attack builds

[balmy condor]

Don’t remind me I’m not mad I won’t snap I’ve never snapped in calm as a cucumber you can see me clearly taking deep breaths right now it’s fine I’m fine we’re good

[strange python]

That's how I feel sometimes when 80% of my combat logs have melee as highest damage source

with the occasional dispatch topping it

why dont i just reroll MM hunter

then my entire log can be

[hollow escarp]

I saw details overalls with outlaw top damage melee

in M+

forgot to mention

[stark heart]

Depends on your rtb I guess

[strange python]

Wild Spirits - 20%

[daring pecan]

this is why we switch to casters

[balmy condor]

Outlaw damage sources
Melee
Gauche
Melee
Melee
Finisher
Generator
Melee
Poison melee

[stark heart]

How lucky/unlucky you were

[balmy condor]

[strange python]

gross

why do i even play video games

at all

[balmy condor]

Depression

[daring pecan]

caster damage profiles, no melee hits to be seen

[strange python]

put that dirty thing away

[daring pecan]

[balmy condor]

Ah yes

My favorite potion

SCHATTENKERNÖLBRAND

[daring pecan]

SCHATTENKERNÖLBRAND

[balmy condor]

JAWOHL SO MUSS DAS SEIN

[daring pecan]

SO UND NICHT ANDERS

[heavy trout]

imagine spieling auf deutsch

[daring pecan]

I don't but the logs are in deutsch

[strange python]

i want to see a raid that runs 13 fire mages and 1 UDK for their dps

[daring pecan]

wtf, no

[balmy condor]

But why 1 udk

[strange python]

so they can have AMZ

[daring pecan]

just have a blood dk

[balmy condor]

They have blocks

[daring pecan]

and a vengeance tank

[strange python]

o tru

[daring pecan]

and mirror images

[strange python]

I forgot blood existed ngl

[daring pecan]

and alter time

and a barrier

[hollow escarp]

blood is my favorite tank to play

[balmy condor]

Just stach disc priests fire mages and run double vengeance

Ez slappers

[daring pecan]

blood is probably every tank players favorite tank

if they're good at tanking

[hollow escarp]

I'm definitely not good at tanking but I still like to play it

[daring pecan]

simply the tank spec that has you the most "in control"

[strange python]

my guild is running vdh/protwar for tanks and has been all xpac so I just never see blood dk lmao

does blood even work in keys

with the kiting

[daring pecan]

apparently

our main tank is a blood DK and he facetanks up to +18

but still a wheelchair class

[hollow escarp]

Naowh did some blood dk keys, was fun to see last boss in NW auto-attack him for 40% hp

[strange python]

LMAO

[daring pecan]

so can't jump around like vdh

[strange python]

idk just picturing a blood DK run NW

at all

the whole dungeon

sounds terrible

[hollow escarp]

I think Seliathan played with him that key

[daring pecan]

I mean, blood DK is basically always around 30-80% hp anyway because of will of the necropolis

[hollow escarp]

tanking is fun, that's why I like leeching poison over cheat death on sin

[daring pecan]

the only issue is healers panicking when they see a blood dk drop because they don't know how the spec works

[hollow escarp]

pain suppression with full runic power bar

[strange python]

idk how druids can have fun playing tank

they just hit iron fur and then like 2 other buttons

and thats it

[hollow escarp]

fun is relative

I remember there was a pin in this discord regarding this

What spec is more fun? "some people like watching the paint dry"

something like that

[daring pecan]

druids have fun tanking because they're unkillable machines by pressing said buttons

also, they're a bear

[hollow escarp]

I would like bear tanking too if I did the mage tower in legion

[daring pecan]

sucks that there's no way to get that bear form for new bear tanks

[proper sage]

what talent build do you go for in torghast

same as m+ i assume?

[hollow escarp]

yeah with leeching poison

[proper sage]

tyty

[hollow escarp]

you have high chances of unlocking double talents anyway

[daring pecan]

I'd probably still run cheating death to avoid one-shots

you get so many different anima powers that heal you in one way or another

[spice spire]

If you do leeching you change it up slightly - master poisoner does work on sustain. So it ends up being the play, oddly.

[pulsar sluice]

What are people simming rn before and after patch

[spice spire]

Sims aren’t completely set for 9.0.5 iirc

[faint harness]

they havent implemented the buff to venomous wounds yet

so thats prob why

[odd heath]

!bis

[prisma monolith]

Whispyrs Bis list: http://tiny.cc/76r5tz

[inland heath]

how superior its nightfae to kyrian in mythic+ ?

[frail fossil]

pretty much even with first strike for nf being very good and hammer of genesis for kyrian being very good too

[inland heath]

and how do you use sepsis ?

u just press it on cd i suppose but what do i press with the bonus ability? a garrote or an ambush

[slim sable]

you dont use it afaik

you only ambush with proc

[hollow escarp]

sub gets a nice shadowstrike from sepsis

[candid quarry]

Is it possible to macro blindside? to override Muti on the action bar

[hollow escarp]

no

[iron orchid]

!bs

[prisma monolith]

Macroing Ambush to Mutilate only works with the use of a addon.
It comes with the downside that it often requires multiple key presss.
Suggested addon to use(Gnome Sequencer):http://tiny.cc/mxb6tz
Showcase Video: #assassination message

[sick scarab]

i want

essence of bloodfang 741% LOL

they may forget to correct that LOL

ahah

[oblique flare]

without having EoB, 74% still sounds weak honestly

they could just nerf the healing and buff the damage if they fear it gives us too much sustain

[marble bear]

is assasination good yet?! o.o

[normal mist]

Yes

[tribal mauve]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination WA's:
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)

[marble bear]

yay I love dots

Cut to the Chase returns? o.o thats cool

[normal mist]

Yes that will also be pretty good, smoothing our rotation

More envenom casts yey

[oblique flare]

now if they would just add pb or ct baseline

a man can dream

[normal mist]

Idk why TF pb isn't baseline honestly

[icy crater]

zold baseline 🙂

[dim mirage]

blindside base imo

[normal mist]

That would make us way too strong if we then combined other legs

Yesss blindside would be amazing, just imagine the smooth rotation and the cp flowing

[oblique flare]

yeah, they can even just reduce the % and make it baseline

[raven egret]

how likely is it that blizz forgets to add venomous buff

[icy crater]

I mean probably but sin having that niche all the time would be awesome.

[dark vigil]

unlikely, it's already on ptr

[raven egret]

they added it to ptr?

[dark vigil]

yes

[raven egret]

last i checked it wasnt

ah cool

[oblique flare]

btw. i read correctly, 7 -> 8 energy reg is better than 10% from SnD :0 ?

[dark vigil]

yes

netural

[raven egret]

yeah

[oblique flare]

nice

[dark vigil]

on st

buff on multitarget

[raven egret]

the 1 buff is like

12% more reg?

on st

12% buff on venomous i mean

[marble bear]

I like the venthyr changes o.o

[dark vigil]

?

wym riri

with the change to vw and such, you'll get like a couple more envenoms a minute

its like a 2% dps increase

1-2

[raven egret]

yea and u never have to refresh snd anymore

so its pretty big

[dark vigil]

its about 1-2% dps increase

but moreso QoL

[slow marsh]

Is 9.0.5 tomorrow?

[dark vigil]

no

march

prob 9th or 16th

should have 1 or 2 more ptr builds before it goes live

[raven egret]

feelcraft increase

big

[polar epoch]

Do you guys still grind soul ash? I’ve got all legendaries I need/want and don’t want to grind torghast anymore. Is there a benefit to do so though?

[stark heart]

you never know what will be good next patch

[spice spire]

New legendaries could come out + buffs/nerfs changes viability of legendaries. Better to plan ahead than try to catch up

[stark heart]

you have to gamble with slot/stats tho, that sucks

[hollow escarp]

do you?

[dark vigil]

@tribal marlin your video on denathrius made me puke with your ui

[polar epoch]

You’ve got a point, god I hate the place.

[quasi ledge]

Could also make legendaries in both slots in case you get an upgrade for said legendary slot, letting you easily swap

[dark vigil]

thats so much extra

you don't need

[stark heart]

sure, and burn twice the ash

no thanks

😄

[quasi ledge]

You don't need it, sure. But it's a use for it :p

[grizzled spire]

Do we have any early data on Flag changes? Gotta mentally prepare for cov swap if needed.

[dark vigil]

its clear that flag will be better in pve than sepsis but overall it comes down to how it compares with venthyr soulbinds and night fae

korayn and niya are very strong

[hollow escarp]

how is it clear?

[polar epoch]

I picked venthyr from the start for the dungeon buffs mostly because none in my group of friends did. I might get lucky on that front

[dark vigil]

comparable damage to sepsis with bunch of haste on top ?

[hollow escarp]

well yeah, but we never compare the covenant ability alone

[dark vigil]

thats why i said

what i said

[crisp edge]

theotar is good but its not better than korayn

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
RH: https://www.ravenholdt.net/guides/assassination-rogue-guide-shadowlands-raid-dps/
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide

[wary ice]

venthyrs best soul bind is literally just a vantus rune.

[strange python]

It’s crazy that limit guy makes a couple videos about value/niche and that’s all you hear about xD I can’t tell you how many times I’ve heard niche since those videos dropped lol. This game is so crazy right now - world 2000 guilds trying to fish for a limit comp xD

[tired vessel]

I like the vids because they hit the nail on the head in regards to blizz's current implementation on balance and that it's dogshit 🙃

[sand tide]

is there any sims regarding the changes to the venthyr ability and the new passive? Will it be competitive playing venthyr assa in raids?

[dark vigil]

hard to sim venthyr rn

but the changes to snd and cttc and vw were simmed i believe

and it was like a 3% dps increase?

and found that subtley's sims were bugged and it had the effects of 2 legendaries on so sub is doing worse than it appears on sims

[sand tide]

ok thanks for the answer 🙂

[agile geode]

wich secondary staff should i put on my zold legg?

haste versa?

[wary ice]

haste [whatever]

I'd suggest haste crit as they're our resource gen stats

[agile geode]

y

prefer crit instead of others

[dark vigil]

haste crit

crit gives us more damage and cp generation

critting a generator gives us extra cp

if you crit 5 times with a fan of knives you'll get 5 cp

its pretty big

[spice spire]

Haste crit and haste vers are both fine. You can see what you need more in the moment, but it’s minimal. Just don’t do mastery lol

[dark vigil]

crit is way more valuable than vers

[stark heart]

Always have been, the lower you go the more blind copying of what top guilds do you'd see

[spice spire]

.25 diff on dps, don’t know if I’d label that way more valuable. And that’s with 595 vers already

[dark vigil]

to a certain point

crit gives you damage and cp

but more than anything yes

sim yourself

[wheat helm]

Hello there ! I was wondering, does Shiv increase Niya's tool: poison damage ?

[wary ice]

yes, shiv increases nature damage

[marble bear]

Poisoning people is fun in pvp

stab stab

[wheat helm]

OK. Hard to be assa without NF. With sepsis and this info now

[wary ice]

I play it on Kyrian without much complaint

NF has the most natrual synergy with the sepc

though tbh you should probably sim burrs vs potency+poison

its most likely higher.

[wheat helm]

Yeah sure. Wanna to go Kyrian but it's far less Assa flavored.

[ornate epoch]

What about venthyr?

[stoic needle]

Shiv does not boost Niya poisons or burrs afaik

It's stupid and arbitrary that shiv works with sepsis but not burrs and poison

[shy axle]

i think i read something along the lines to use evenom at ~ 90+ energy and pool for evenoms and not shiv (but you do pool for shiv either way if you`d do that), is that a thing or a meme?

[hollow escarp]

people been talking here about assassination execute niche with zoldyck even before those videos were released 🙂

[dark vigil]

that limit guy

[hollow escarp]

world first guilds and rank 1 rio players always have been influencing people though

also Max talks about classes like everybody watching him cares about world first raiding

[strange python]

So is assassination the play for sludgefist now

[stoic needle]

Always has been

[dark vigil]

he talks about classes and what not from a pov of utility. he will always make the point of "this only applies for wfirst raiding" if it does

otherwise its a pretty generic statement that applies to lower guilds too

[strange python]

There is only 17 assassination kills on mythic sludge right now

[dark vigil]

he coaches lower guilds so he has a good idea

not just wfirst raiding

[strange python]

but it looks promising

[hollow escarp]

I wanted to post the meme but too lazy to edit it

[dark vigil]

i think with the vendetta legendary being buffed that will prob be the go to leggo for sludge

since you'll be able to have vendetta every pillar

think that would outweigh zoldyck

[hollow escarp]

what's the CD on vendetta with that leggo?

[stoic needle]

1min

[hollow escarp]

[stoic needle]

If vendetta actually did something in aoe it'd be kinda poggers for m+ too

[clever niche]

did a test run yesterday in normal for the guild alt run, damage isn't bad with the correct setup. I do have a concern though as top damage was melee swings on most fights which makes me think that our abilities are badly undertuned. Or am I overthinking things?

[hollow escarp]

still is in theater, dos or other places with prio targets

[spice spire]

You’re not, even with an 18% buff abilities seen undertuned by a tad. It’s at the point where abilities are at least competitive at least

[stoic needle]

Our bleeds could use a damage buff tbh

[hollow escarp]

for example in DoS I have Vendetta ready for both Defunct Dental Drills

[stoic needle]

That's cool

[hollow escarp]

that's with 2 min cd

[indigo ginkgo]

on normal rotation how much secunds do we gain with the new buufs on the vendetta cds legendary ? any one nows ?

[dark vigil]

can have it up about every min

so good for sludge

[indigo ginkgo]

cuz if we can have a vendetta every 1 min or so, that fuking ledanry will be bis for shore in pve fight

its like a fuking combustion 1 min cds of fire amges

[hollow escarp]

forgot how much was vendetta cd with that legendary in Legion

[wary ice]

im not sure if you're explaining it poorly or if the advice itself is just poor but pooling itself is not a damage gain its moving damage into your burst windwos

[hollow escarp]

but I mostly used master assassin and zoldyck bracers

[wary ice]

so there arent any real hard and fast rulesl ike envenom at 90

[stoic needle]

According to the ptr sims even with the buff it doesn't beat zoldyck or doomblade

[wary ice]

there are things you can do like if you're at max CP and have alll your bleeds +snd rolling you can hold the envenom until the current envenom debuff is about to drop

holding globals at like 3-4 cps before shiv is another example of correct pooling

[hollow escarp]

probably a good way to say it is don't overcap energy and try to have energy to fit as many envenoms in the shiv window @wary ice @shy axle

[shy axle]

i explained it poorly

[polar sinew]

hi someone have a link about the "buff" of assa on one of his spell pls ? i didnt found it on wowhead etc.

[hollow escarp]

what buff?

[wary ice]

assa has not had spell buffs

[polar sinew]

i dunno a friend told me that

[wary ice]

We've gotten ~20+% damage in aura buffs since release

[polar sinew]

it was a change not a buff then

[hollow escarp]

we got cut the chase but lost slice and dice rank 2

[wary ice]

^

cttc and venomous wounds buffs are 905 things, not in live yet

[hollow escarp]

so now envenom extends our slice and dice

[lyric crater]

they are buffing vm so i hard by one enegry

[wary ice]

yes

[hollow escarp]

that as well

[polar sinew]

yes its something like that !

may i have a link pls ?

[hollow escarp]

https://eu.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/905-ptr-changes-updated-18-february/252000

[lyric crater]

blizzard dont buff druid let them suffer for once

[hollow escarp]

some would say the same thing about rogues

[lyric crater]

ha sin is suffering atm it sub that the op spec atm in pvp well it was that nerf hurt it not by much but enough to lower the chane of one shoting some one unlike druid there convoke still can one or 2 shot people

[fleet whale]

just fyi, the changes that sin is getting in 9.0.5

is actually a significant buff, like 150-200 dps

[dark vigil]

its like 2% buff

[stoic needle]

More like 3%

[lyric crater]

cool and if flag changes stays pop flag and vendetta time right on cb spending very high burst window in pvp and pve

[stoic needle]

Enough to make us the highest simming melee dps in the game

[fleet whale]

it puts it infront of sub in sims, and around outlaw

or even higher than outlaw

[dark vigil]

feral

exist

[stoic needle]

They're cheating :P

They're dishonest fake melee

[polar sinew]

Thanks for the link Kojack !

[stoic needle]

But ok yeah we'll be the second highest simming melee dps

[fleet whale]

sadly, with still no raid utility

[lyric crater]

they could add to are are poison that slow a target melee.cast speed by 5 to 10% DH took are old buff we once had that increase magic damage taken

[indigo ginkgo]

or return the expose armor

raid buf

[lyric crater]

hmm but they have the damn monk that increase damage taken dubuff

debuff

only one no class has atm is one that slow melee and caster attack speed by a %

i think warlocks got one that slow caster time back not 100% sure

[dark vigil]

its pretty meh

and requires them to use a gcd iirc

[lyric crater]

what about a poison that increase dot damage about half of the class have dots priest locks boomkln arm warrior DK

[dark vigil]

would fit thematically

[dark marten]

this is actually a nice buff that could be maintained by all rogue specs for the raid.

expose armor would be great for all specs imo

[lyric crater]

true

in LK no warrior rogue next best thing for the armor debuff good times

[dark marten]

I think expose armor should stack with find weakness for sub as it is the specialty of sub rogue in a way while the others profit from having access to armor reduction through it

so the specialty of sub is buffed while others have an additional tool in their kit

and it offers an option for a raid buff

[stoic needle]

I wouldn't mind expose armor coming back at all

[lyric crater]

great buff a sub i dont like but i have to play it in pvp

[stoic needle]

Make it a builder like shiv or ER that applies the debuff

I just wouldn't like it as a spender

[lyric crater]

way it was more cp longer it last think it was a set amount of armor it bypass

[dark marten]

in order to justify it being a CP spender it needs to remain on target for a significant duration

they can either set the armor pen by each cp spend on a fixed duration or the other way around to have a set amount of armor pen with an increased duration by each CP spend

it is up to blizz to find the right choice

[lyric crater]

haha yea right they will f it up and u know it

[balmy condor]

Most of our damage bypasses armour anyway though

[dark marten]

haha yeah that's the issue 🙂

[marble bear]

are sin leggos/conduits like...easy to get D:

[stoic needle]

Crit buff would be good

[stoic needle]

Considering torghast is pretty easy now and you can get conduits from callings I would say yes

[marble bear]

ok good

did they buff threads of fate yet

[lyric crater]

o how about expose armor increase cirt by 10-15% that be neat

[stoic needle]

Nah it's the same as it always was haha

[dark marten]

another ability that is kind of interesting is the torghast ability for our distraction bomb which can be glyphed into a flashbang. don't remember the name

the one that puts explosives on the target in its area of effect

[shy dust]

its no longer aoe

[lyric crater]

yea i like that one drop on a pack of 5 2 sec left jump and reck house

[dark marten]

with MA in our kit, they probably won't add anymore crit buffs

they could grant it as a nice aoe talent

[stoic needle]

That one sucks because distract only works on targets not in combat

I'd rather have them make vein rippers into an ability or talent

[dark marten]

@stoic needle yeah that's right though

[lyric crater]

yea they would need to rework it so we can use it while in combat

when i get that cool powerr up i keep yelling at my friend dont pull them !!

[fleet whale]

yeah the distract bomb power thing is kind of meh

[stoic needle]

No offense but that's one of the torghast powers that I'd least like to see taken out of torg lol

It's fun and all but the others are a lot cooler

[lyric crater]

it more for big packs it churcks them good and stun them giveing u time to blow them up

[fleet whale]

too bad most big packs

are already in combat lol

fighting other npcs

[stoic needle]

Yep lol

Now an aoe stun power would be interesting but that's not very rogue tbh

[lyric crater]

sadly yes in some part of that place

[fleet whale]

the power wasn't really thought of well

[dark marten]

tbh I'd like to see the old shadow reflection again at this point

as a talent for all specs

[fleet whale]

wouldn't really do much for any of the rogue specs

the talent itself was pretty meh other than some sub pvp tricks you could do

[dark marten]

am I remembering it wrong though? it being a dps boost for assa

[lyric crater]

pvp sub is very strong sadly sin not so good if u play sin in pvp u got to play very smart and tag team people

[dark marten]

you would pick it over DFA and Venom rush right

[fleet whale]

It was a dps boost but the talent itself wasn’t interesting f

[dark marten]

which talent/spell would you like to see return? (edit: typo)

[fleet whale]

Kingsbane

[dark marten]

yeah that spell was actually nice

[stoic needle]

Siresbane

[fleet whale]

Yes Siresbabe, my totally original concept

[vital crown]

is doomblade leggo gonna be good after the buff?

[balmy condor]

Already is

But you probably won’t take it

[lyric crater]

kingbane was god for sin miss it

[balmy condor]

Cause it’s not zoldyck

[vital crown]

well i mainly pvp

[balmy condor]

Then go for it

[vital crown]

so im more interested in that aspect i ocasionally do a dungon

[balmy condor]

It’s not great in dungeons

So there’s that

[torpid spoke]

Which vulpera bag of tricks is the best for any rogue spec?

[dark marten]

I wish blizzard would listen to people actually

[vital crown]

i have zoldyck legs atm so i can swap that around for dungeons

[balmy condor]

Yeh then doomblade for pvp is fine

Ma is good as well

[torpid spoke]

Is nature one like the go to?

[vital crown]

and slice n dice is gone completely from assasination? icy veins is confusing me

[balmy condor]

Yeah but it doesn’t matter at all

[balmy condor]

Cttc refreshes it if it’s applied

[torpid spoke]

Doesn’t shiv increase nature damage you deal? @balmy condor

Or do the facials not really give a shit and small small dps increase

Racial*

[balmy condor]

This

[torpid spoke]

Kk thanks!

I guess al races are close except night elf and mechagnome right

[balmy condor]

I don’t think nelf is even that good in raids

[torpid spoke]

For outlaw?

[balmy condor]

You’re in the assassination channel

[stoic needle]

Having 2 vanishes is pretty lit

[torpid spoke]

Ooooooos

[stoic needle]

Double the subterfuge garottes

[torpid spoke]

Ooops lol

[balmy condor]

Can you get subt from it,

?

[stoic needle]

Yes

[balmy condor]

On a raid boss?

[dark marten]

no you can't

[stoic needle]

You shadowmeld > stealth

[balmy condor]

Lmao

Yeah good luck with that

[stoic needle]

Is that only in m+ then?

[balmy condor]

On a boss

[dark marten]

once you are in combat with a raid boss your melt won't trigger subterfuge, you can't even restealth really

[balmy condor]

Can’t even meld stealth during m+ bosses

[stoic needle]

I watched dei do it in m+

[balmy condor]

That’s an m+ trash pack thing

[stoic needle]

[balmy condor]

Cause you can restealth on trash

Can’t restealth on bosses of any kind

[stoic needle]

Ok well it's less broken than I thought

[fleet whale]

races don't really matter

i just play nelf cause i like them

[stoic needle]

But that trash damage though....

[balmy condor]

Idk maybe I haven’t gotten big enough keys yet

I actually find myself holding vanish for a while

[iron orchid]

how come everyone pings whispyr, but i never get a ping @stoic needle

Whispyr answers before me 😢

[balmy condor]

Cause there’s nothing thatll live long enough

For a vanish garrote

[stoic needle]

Yeah agreed

It feels bad

[stoic needle]

I didn't realize you wanted to get pinged

[balmy condor]

I live here bucko

[stoic needle]

I'll ping you more then

[balmy condor]

[iron orchid]

I don't WANT to, just feels weird getting mentionned but not pinged somehow

[balmy condor]

You get used to it

[stoic needle]

Yea

It just means you're notable

Instead of random discord poster #263728

[iron orchid]

Haven't been around for a week or two, just looking from afar

[balmy condor]

Someone dm’d me last week and said that they were arguing in outlaw over something I said in sub, and wanted confirmation

And I’m like

Huh?

[stoic needle]

[stoic needle]

You hear about us going to the moon in 9.0.5?

[iron orchid]

I tested it out on ptr

Just cttc feels great

I'd say

maybe a bit overpowered

3s/cp is a lot

[stoic needle]

I'm greedy, I want more buffs

[iron orchid]

I just mean, we don't NEED 15s refresh on 5 cp envenoms

10s would already be great

but hey

if they give us 15

i take it tho

[elfin valley]

what is cttc?

[stoic needle]

That's the kind of attitude that got us into the spot we are in now

"akaaris is too overpowered"

Meanwhile: BOAT

If something is good we take that shit no questions asked

[iron orchid]

SnD refresh on envenom

[stoic needle]

Imo at least

[elfin valley]

ah ty

[stoic needle]

Maybe I'm dishonest

[iron orchid]

Let's just say, any value that is greater than 15s would actually have been quite useless

but I already feel like it is a lot

I guess maybe it will be useful at some point

[stoic needle]

You're probably correct

[limber lion]

Wtf Sludge is nerfed to shit

We literally killed it after 43 pulls

[stoic needle]

Idk if they have this saying in france but in the us we say 'don't look a gift horse in the mouth'

[limber lion]

okidoki

[stoic needle]

M sludge?

[limber lion]

More pulls on Council kek

Yeah

[stoic needle]

That's how many it took me for H with pugs

[spice spire]

Hsludge was ez. But also mythic was such a hard wall because it was a gear check. You guys are probably way more geared than the first run of gamers that did it

[stoic needle]

Nothing is easy in a pug

[spice spire]

Just join a low mythic guild that runs heroic farm

Numbers I’m sure are good enough for that

[stoic needle]

I'm gonna transfer servers this week I think

But idk like some part of me feels bad just using some 3/10 guild for logs to join a better one

That's a very weird part of raiding culture

[prime stirrup]

cant climb the ladder without touching the rungs.

[trim zinc]

if u have vendetta up and the boss is like 35%/40% hp do u use it or wait till 30% to buff execute dmg??

[spice spire]

I agree. I’ve settled into my aotc guild and it was nice. I’d trial somewhere before joining though, Osh.

[stoic needle]

Like imagine being the guild leader of some low mythic guild and having people just revolving door through your guild like that

I guess trialing isn't as bad

[balmy condor]

yeah, imagine

[spice spire]

It’s also part of recruiting for those guilds. You miss 100 applicants for 5 good ones

[stoic needle]

Trial me whispyr

[spice spire]

Trial me whispyr, sin rogue only normal run when

[balmy condor]

trial would mean that there's a chance you don't make it

[stoic needle]

[spice spire]

But also seriously, don’t transfer before you trial with a guild.

[stoic needle]

I mean wyrmrest accord is dead

Going anywhere but here will be an improvement even if I don't join a guild immediately

[spice spire]

I’ve turned down a few people so I tell everyone that trials

Don’t xfer until accepted

But what if you find a guild that jives on a different server

Ur gonna get an extra thirty YOINKED

[stoic needle]

Well the problem is that these guilds all want mythic experience

And I can't get any on my server

[spice spire]

Nah, not all do. I’m part of a recruiting discord and there are tons taking decent heroic logs

[stoic needle]

Well I guess the higher up guilds do

I basically simmed myself into a 6/10 guild and they said to check back again when I have more mythic experience

[spice spire]

Yeah aim for your 2/10-4/10 guilds

Because there’s a million hardstuck on inerva unfortunately

[stoic needle]

I can imagine

Any fight where ranged have to do mechanics?

[spice spire]

“Any fight where you have to do mechanics? “

[gusty mirage]

I feel personally attacked by this statement

Especially after 10 wipes sub 5%

[strange python]

Inverva is an annoying fight

[spice spire]

LMAO.

[strange python]

It's just one of those fights. Sometimes you get lucky with immunes, sometimes you struggle

[spice spire]

I’d probably be with you brother

[strange python]

Sometimes you wipe 17 times in one night then 2 shot her the next night

[spice spire]

Sometimes you down a prog boss in two attempts then wipe 12 times the following week

[strange python]

Yup

[spice spire]

It is what it is

[strange python]

lol

[gusty mirage]

True. It’s fun reprogging on bosses we already killed

[torpid spoke]

woudln't koryan be better than niya?

for zoldycks?

[spice spire]

Part of the reason my group has gone “aotc focused” was they have PTSD from mythic hive mind

[torpid spoke]

the execute is p sick as well as double potency

[balmy condor]

double potency on korayn

[stoic needle]

Nope Niya is better and our conduits aren't a very large dps boost

Burrs go burr

[torpid spoke]

hmmm... how is this guy doing insane damage then

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/pZ9zfcG8kHKF4yRq#fight=47&type=damage-done&targetclass=Boss

can someone help me understand?

this is for mythic council though

[balmy condor]

oh fuck

[torpid spoke]

so there's a lot of executes

[balmy condor]

it's god damn peen

[fallow solar]

I'd say showing a good log on H sire would help with mythic application, the amount of ppl who just can't dps while avoiding mechanics is hilarious, people in my guild doing from lego logs on other bosses down to grey on sire

[balmy condor]

kill me now

[stoic needle]

PEEEEEN

[balmy condor]

this fucking dipshit

[torpid spoke]

is this a meme? or...

can explain?

[stoic needle]

He's getting fed PI thats how

[torpid spoke]

oh that's why

but in buffs it doesn't say PI

[balmy condor]

he didn't get PI on that

[torpid spoke]

but how is he PUMPIN

[balmy condor]

cause he's 226

[torpid spoke]

he does have p sick stats too

[bleak sedge]

vs counciil Do i rupture second target after my opener or do i double garrote into snd into double rupture

[stoic needle]

He's using Niya burrs in that log

[spice spire]

If whispyr is an anime protagonist, peen is this man’s arch-enemy. Holy moly.

[torpid spoke]

oh ur right. i thought execute would be p good with adds + 3 bosses needing execute

[stoic needle]

Yes, zoldyck is good on that fight

It just doesn't show up on the meters because other classes can pad

[strange python]

tbf i disregard basically any log that isn't NA or EU

[torpid spoke]

why

[stoic needle]

But on damage to bosses sin is top 5

[balmy condor]

the meme is that he was like the only sin rogue on logs, and he was playing completely wrong with subt/ma, from stealth, so there were a couple of idiots who were arguing with me that the sims are wrong, since peen is topping meters double garroting single target and shit

and holllllllllllllllly I was fuming

[torpid spoke]

ah I see haha

[balmy condor]

he does get PI's fairly regularly though

[stoic needle]

Why

[strange python]

I just feel like I'll never compare to Korean/Chinese gamers

lol

[misty holly]

Do vantus runes show in logs? I wonder how often these insane parses are using one.

[strange python]

They're way too hardcore

Plus didn't they have different gear/drop rates for awhile?

[torpid spoke]

they do

[balmy condor]

yes, you can see it in buffs

I'll tell you right now though

[stoic needle]

No they don't that's just a meme

[balmy condor]

that vantus runes for parses aren't common

[stoic needle]

A borderline racist meme

Why don't people vantus for parses more idgi

It's alotta dam

[torpid spoke]

also @balmy condor if I were to make the switch to sin from outlaw, I would need to literally replace like almost all my gear?

https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/character/us/hyjal/crackérs

got a fuckton of vers

[balmy condor]

no

[stoic needle]

Vers is fine for sin

[balmy condor]

you can play it like that

[torpid spoke]

oh?

[balmy condor]

(I didn't click the link btw)

I see 223 ilvl

you're fucking good man

fuck the stats

[stoic needle]

Your gear is great for sin

[balmy condor]

who cares

[stoic needle]

I clicked it they're fine

[faint harness]

people do

we vantus on farm, always

[balmy condor]

thinking secondary stats actually matter

[stoic needle]

If you don't have 20% haste you're a loser

[strange python]

Vantus on farm?

oof

[faint harness]

?

not like we pay for it

just get a vantus to use

[misty holly]

I just ran a quicksim and raidbots tells me to double garrote on opener. Peen was right all along.

[faint harness]

peen is a genius gamer ngl

[spice spire]

Did someone say opener

[stoic needle]

Sounds fake but ok

[balmy condor]

simming multiple targets

cheater

[crimson palm]

!navi

[misty holly]

crap your right, I left it on dungeon slice again.

[balmy condor]

I think the only way you would get a double garrote from stealth single target would be hitting the exsang line

[misty holly]

but why didnt it tell me to triple garrote then... wtf

[balmy condor]

probably because it was a 2 target pull

I would assume

if you do find a situation where it double garrotes, or ambushes, from stealth

let me know

and I'll squash that shit

[strange python]

What if my quick sim tells me to mut -> rup -> mut

Do I just tell it to fuck off

[limber lion]

You reckon it's not worth double garroting even with Zoldyck at 30%?

[balmy condor]

that's what it should do

[balmy condor]

correct

[limber lion]

Rip

[strange python]

thought it was always mut - snd - mut

[spice spire]

Master assassin?

[balmy condor]

yeh but the difference is really minor

it should snd first

[spice spire]

I’ve been fluid with my opener, if it’s a 4 pointer I go SND. If not, I go for immediate rupture. That’s really feel craft-y tho

[balmy condor]

which is weird, yes

but meh

not a loss really

[strange python]

i seeeeeeeeeee

[balmy condor]

I'll take a look at it though

[faint harness]

why do we mut rup mut

[balmy condor]

send it over

[faint harness]

thats disgusting

with MA?

[balmy condor]

well we mut snd mut

with MA

[faint harness]

50% chance

[balmy condor]

with the legendary you actually garrote mut snd mut

[faint harness]

makes sense

[balmy condor]

cause you take subterfuge

[faint harness]

nah you'd play MA + MA

ofc

150% crit to be sure

[stoic needle]

Do you think that our opener will change at all with cttc

[strange python]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/9kqtngd3sFGdcgNivsfUTp

[faint harness]

unless you can magically get premed as a talent

prob not

[strange python]

omg @balmy condor now it's telling me to AMBUSH

[balmy condor]

no, because you need to get slice up to begin with

[balmy condor]

yeah that's a blindside proc that's fine

[strange python]

whew

wait

how did i lose 100 dps in 3 days?

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/3iURJyptSdNjVqHGGs9UjW

That's my top gear from friday

and when I ran the same thing through quick sim today I get 100 less dps

[stoic needle]

What I mean is couldn't it be worth it to do a 1cp snd right after garotte with subterfuge

[glad scroll]

@strange python sims are o key accurate within a percentage range. 100dps is probably within the +or- 2%.