assassination

[dark vigil]

yeah im only talking about pve

[gleaming eagle]

oh

the blink is nice too to dodge boss aoe tbh lol

[dark vigil]

you shouldnt need it

for pve

its a nice bonus

but it shouldnt be needed

[gleaming eagle]

i just think its much better than the armor

for rogue

to be fair

i also wanted to pick necrolord at start

cause of the unlimited dog

dot

but i pvp a lot and the blink is night and day difference

[dark vigil]

yeah its like a 250 dps loss or something to go necro rn

at least for st

[gleaming eagle]

even if it stack for mastery its not going to be enough

[dark vigil]

its about a .7% increase

with like 20% mastery which you can get with like 2 pieces

[gleaming eagle]

im sure they will buff it again

in the future

[dark vigil]

i think they're also afraid to make something that lasts forever do decent damage

because it could gimmick some stuff in the future

like how the unliimited corruption for affli locks

[gleaming eagle]

not sure

but what happened before was sin underperform

and then they buffed it

still underperform

then they buffed it again

[dark vigil]

yeah but thats different

[gleaming eagle]

same thing will probably happen to that

[dark vigil]

9.1 will be the big shakeup for covenants and what not

[gleaming eagle]

what will change for nf?

[worn path]

Won’t know until they release the conduit tree updates

[gleaming eagle]

i see

[dark vigil]

yeah they said they're adding new conduits, making the covenant trees deeper

and of course big balance changes across the board

for covenants, conduits, classes

[gleaming eagle]

ah

and when is 9.1?

[dark vigil]

we don't knwo yet

9.0.5 will be in march

prob 9th or 16th

expect 9.1 in may i think

[gleaming eagle]

ah ok

this game need to go f2p already

lol

[dark vigil]

no

[trim zinc]

why we dont have 2shadowstep??;-;

[gleaming eagle]

cause of lore i think

[dark vigil]

because we only need to shadowstep once to assassinate our targets

[gleaming eagle]

sin is the less rogue out of the other spec

we just

pump dmg

[stoic needle]

Blizzard has shown that they don't really want to nerf op covenants, they buff the others

[gleaming eagle]

outlaw and sub will always have more utilities

[dark vigil]

i think they will nerf stuff in 9.1 but then introduce free painless covenant swapping

[trim zinc]

no? cuz like rogue always have been the class that have poisons and we r tthe poison master

[balmy condor]

Current covenant swapping is pretty free and painless tbh

[lilac coral]

sub is like, right there

[gleaming eagle]

what i meant by that is that sin always have the least utilities compared to the other ones @trim zinc

i think back in legion we dont even have blind

[dark vigil]

without having to regrind campaign or renown

[trim zinc]

i agree that sub have more but outlaw??

[dark vigil]

and stuff

[balmy condor]

But that’s easy

[stoic needle]

I mean, outlaw is obviously the least roguelike spec

It's a fucking pirate

[dark vigil]

yues but

[trim zinc]

i dont wanna change ;-;
i hate doing quests

[dark vigil]

swapping back and forth

to test stuff

[balmy condor]

Had a friend do all 31 renown in 3 days flat

[dark vigil]

they said they will implement something like that

cool your friend did that

you think most players want to?

no

i can grind it up too

and i dont mind it

[balmy condor]

[stoic needle]

They should just make the enclave in oribos the way it is as a fresh 50 during threads all the time

Freely swap between covs, target dummies to test abilities

[balmy condor]

I mean 3 days of playing for an mmo where it’s literally designed as a grind, by the definition of the genre

Doesnt seem bad to me

[dark vigil]

but most of the playerbase doesnt wanna lose their followers, renown, have to redo campaign, sanctum upgrades

[gleaming eagle]

how is he getting

[dark vigil]

to switch covenants

[gleaming eagle]

31 renown in 3 days?

just quest?

[dark vigil]

dungeons, pvp, lfr, normal, heroic

campaign quest

[balmy condor]

Spammed bg’s i think

[dark vigil]

give renown very fast

[stoic needle]

Blizzard doesn't really care, that's more money in their pocket

[gleaming eagle]

bgs give renown?

[dark vigil]

you think so

but they do care

[gleaming eagle]

finding party alone took me 1 hour..

and that is if we win the game

for rated bg

lol

[balmy condor]

Dunno

Probably did dungeons and 2’s as well

He does a bit of everything

Got all the renown, did the weekly quests

And then slammed the campaign in like 3-4 hours

I think it’s curious how people were clambering for classic because the grind but then people also complain when it takes a week to change covenants

All walks of life I guess

[snow forge]

i did it in 2 days

queuing plaguefall hc with a tank

[worn path]

Only part that sucks about swapping is mission table followers, sanctum upgrades and killing old muscle memories

[gloomy knoll]

@balmy condor where are these 7k+ sin sims

[balmy condor]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/vqdv4wr6ioeSXyfiKVXiyF

[dark vigil]

poggers

[stoic needle]

[dark vigil]

close to my parse on mythic denathrius

[balmy condor]

I think about future generations soloing nathria for mogs

and I realize that they would never make it to p2 because they'd push too fast in p1 and have like 5 stacks

and then the drop would insta kill

and that makes me happy

[gloomy knoll]

wait

i thought there was some new ptr sims for sin

that made it look super promising

[stoic needle]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/aTfkEpLvftDZJkWgYFGpGS

That one I did

[gloomy knoll]

wait that's feral

sub / sin only 7k

[stoic needle]

I mean you have to compare all the specs

But no one plays feral

Even though it's the best simming melee

[gloomy knoll]

i mean in this it looks like aside from unique raid buff specs u want feral

and if u can't get feral 1 rogue

[stoic needle]

And yet

No one plays feral

It's always been like this

Feral has always been the best simming melee

From day 1 of the expansion

[gloomy knoll]

depends though cuz a lot of times aren't other specs not optimized

in their apls

is that actually how we'll all stack up?

[stoic needle]

It depends because of what you just said

[gloomy knoll]

if it is it's good news for us

at least 1 rogue spot seems pretty relevent as long as raid isn't super anti melee

[stoic needle]

The execute will be undeniable

And also just being tanky

[quaint phoenix]

@stoic needle did you try to implement buffed venthyr covenant?

[balmy condor]

[drifting cloud]

[balmy condor]

yeah oshosi

fucking implement it you clown

wth

[tribal marlin]

what changed for subt

why is it simming higher ?

[balmy condor]

could be a lot of things

[quaint phoenix]

Dunno if you guys are jking rn😅

[balmy condor]

generally though more stats = MA worse/subt better

[tribal marlin]

that's no little gap, it's like 300 dps difference

no I mean, subt the spec

[gloomy knoll]

ii mean the execute is 100 dps worse

prob wouldn't run that

[balmy condor]

oh

idk

[tribal marlin]

it's simming 300dps more than official T26 sims

[balmy condor]

I think he stole fuu's profiles or something

[tribal marlin]

I don't think a gear profile change can show such a difference

especially since the default profile isn't that bad

[balmy condor]

it is a joke, because osh is just a guy running sims. Implementing spells into simulationcraft is for the actual simulationcraft devs, like koji

[quaint phoenix]

Oh i see haha

[gloomy knoll]

any frost dk amzers in the chat

stacking next raid

[balmy condor]

it's all c++ though, like this is poison application logic

[dark vigil]

even if they gut AMZ to a 4 min cd or halve the magic damge reduction

itll still be nuts

[gloomy knoll]

just stack more dk's

[dark vigil]

imagine a fight where ranged classes are terrible

12 dks

[gleaming eagle]

always wonder why

no one play feral as well

i think its a really good spec

[dark vigil]

its outclassed because it doesnt bring anything for the fight

except roar i guess

and its outshined by moonkin

[signal marsh]

Too complicated compared to one-buttoned boomy

[dark vigil]

but its still very good

[stoic needle]

Tfw I can't just implement flag

[balmy condor]

imagine not being able to implement a skill into simc

and that skill being bugged as fuck

and we don't really know how it's supposed to work

[dark vigil]

just do it

[tribal marlin]

ye OK

I found out

but yet the sim ALSO have Akaari

this report is corrupted for some reason

Tho I can't figure out why this is in

[dark vigil]

does the sim not having them using akaari

[tribal marlin]

they do

https://i.imgur.com/xSzENcU.png

[dark vigil]

so then whats the issue

dude

imgur and discord embedding

has been so dogshit for the past week

[tribal marlin]

Idk

[dark vigil]

oh its using deathly shadows and akaari

i see

[tribal marlin]

ye

it has both

[dark vigil]

sim also is using kyrian for sin

which is like 300 dps lower than night fae

making us look bad

[tribal marlin]

oh yes you mean the official T26 sims

[dark vigil]

yeah

well tahts what we're looking at no

[gloomy knoll]

what stats does sin like

still all of them

?

[dark vigil]

haste crit

[gloomy knoll]

or do u stack haste

[dark vigil]

and if u cant get both, get vers

get like 1 piece with mastery

[tribal marlin]

@stoic needle

[dark vigil]

max

[high wagon]

What talent setup do you guys usually run on generals? I tried using CT on council and didn't end up going too well

[dark vigil]

wouldnt use ct on council

all ur padding gets erased once the bosses die and get healed up

[gloomy knoll]

yea is no good

[dark vigil]

sin expertise is burning the boss when it drops to 30%

which is actually pretty valuable for council

if you sort dmg to bosses in council

sin is actually pretty high

[tribal marlin]

Well so I did the sim with 2 legendary for Sub

with the 2 correct ones (Akaaris + Finality)

https://i.imgur.com/K0NfDXz.png

this is no good for Sub

we won't have 2 legendary, and even if we did Assa would be miles ahead 😦

[stoic needle]

I changed it to night fae in the sim that I linked

[stoic needle]

[dark vigil]

we'll have 2 legendaries at some point

[royal lantern]

why

[dark vigil]

i'd bet my ass

[royal lantern]

do people keep saying that

[dark vigil]

9.2 or 9.3

[royal lantern]

like why

[frail fossil]

source : trust me

[dark vigil]

source : my bunghole

[royal lantern]

legion was litearlly balanced around 2legendarys

from the start

so we got it

now it isnt

[tribal marlin]

pinged you because there is a problem in your sim xD

[royal lantern]

and they never said something about that

[stoic needle]

Yeah I see

[royal lantern]

so why do people keep saying"YE BUT WITH 2 LEGENDARYS"

[dark vigil]

if everything is broken

nothing is broken

[stoic needle]

I'm trying to see if it's affecting sin too

[main crypt]

i'm about to pick my covt, i mostly raid and sometimes do m+, do i go night fae yeah?

[frail fossil]

yes or kyrian the one u prefer

[main crypt]

thank you

[stoic needle]

Lmao ok so

The only difference is that sub is shit and doesn't keep up with sin

[tribal marlin]

I checked it doesn't seems to

[dark vigil]

does it reflect properly on bloodmallet

[tribal marlin]

Yep but that's predictable

[stoic needle]

Sub needs akaaris and deathly to keep up with sin

[tribal marlin]

Not having to refresh SnD is more than a marginal gain in term of dps

it's good dam actually

Especially in simulated DPS because the APL is not taking care of Shiv

you gotta refresh, you gotta refresh

it sometimes refresh both SnD and Rupture in Shiv

this will never happen anymore

[gloomy knoll]

if we get 2 legendaries we would 1000 % get them tuned before it hits live @royal lantern

[tribal marlin]

All we know at this point is that "they have plan for legendary and we will learn more in a near future"

that what they said.

[dark vigil]

99% chance they will add ability to have 2 legendaries in some fashion

[tribal marlin]

2 legendaries at this point almost guarantee Rogue to have a raid spot in high level or raiding

[trim zinc]

does off hand procs more enchants??? D:

[stoic needle]

No

I'll re-run that melee dps sim in a bit and maybe add the ranged classes too

Hopefully the sub bug is fixed

[tribal marlin]

ye I think it's a b ug in the engine

I checked the gear and the raw input, nothing actually brings DS in

I'm still a bit surprise that cttc seems to be at least 200 increase dps

or maybe 150

I know it's good, but that feels a bit too much so idk

let's just wait for patch to be live. Should not take too long now

[stoic needle]

I think it's a combination of the energy saved from not casting snd and the increased envenom buff uptime

[dark vigil]

prob 2 or 3 more resets

for 9.0.5

and more ptr builds too

[tribal marlin]

yes most likely this + CP gain and more envenom damage as well

[dark vigil]

yeah an extra few envenoms a minute is huge

[oblique flare]

Vein Ripper Legendary when

Omae

Wa

Mo

Shindeiru

[halcyon panther]

anyone know the best talents for pvp?

[dark vigil]

check top sin on the arena ladder

granted pvp talents will prob switch around

[nova gate]

Hey guys. I'd like to ask for your opinion. Is Necrolord Sin valid? I really enjoy playing as a Necrolord and I'M sure I wont change covenant just becouse of a few% but I'm curious, what do you say?

[balmy condor]

all covs are valid

[dusky vault]

Necrolord is behind but only 3% roughly I think. Covenants are not super crazy set in stone for rogue's like other classes so pick what you like if you don't mind a minor drop

[dark vigil]

no. theres only one good answer

with one good covenant

and best build.

for every situation.

[dusky vault]

I mean if you're a druid sure haha

[dark vigil]

even for druids theres some changes

for talents

[nova gate]

If you say that it doesnt matter much, it just makes me feel better. I really enjoy Maldraxxus so far on my Sin and I wouldnt change for some minor % differences, only if other Covenants had some big differences. Currently I just got my legendary, Zoldyck, altough I was thinking about some other that look also cool. I'M also hunting for my 2. purple dagger :c THe only one I have is a 158 honor dagger since I had no luck with the drops. I really want to get into Sin. I welcome any good advice ^^ I really like it so far.

[dark vigil]

they're all good

necro will be slightly better next patch caus emastery will affect it

[candid quarry]

!bis

[prisma monolith]

Whispyrs Bis list: http://tiny.cc/76r5tz

[strange python]

I am seeing Night Fae as Covenant of choice for Assassination. Is this right?

[dark vigil]

yes

[lyric crater]

atm yes patch 9.0.5 maybe u can play some thing diffent and still be good

[plain jewel]

Hey guys. Doing some m+ as assassin rogue and I'm wondering what soulbind/path I should take. Currently night fae and using burrs. Not sure if there are better options for m+

[frail fossil]

First strike korayn

[lyric crater]

\

[warm canopy]

Been playing Sin for keys this week for fun and doing 6k overall usually

Is that decent or are you guys blasting?

[balmy condor]

that's pretty normal

[drifting cosmos]

is that on par with other non fotm classes?

on keys like 15-17

[warm canopy]

the 220 druid in my last run did 6.5k

[dark vigil]

6k overall

yeah 6.5k for a 220 druid overall is pretty dogshit

just press starfall

[tropic ocean]

pepega druids everywhere

[frail fossil]

i have yet to see one good druid in pug

[tropic ocean]

ofc not too many rerolls

ive seen 2-3 blasters

at 18 range

[warm canopy]

15 DOS

[tropic ocean]

well not blast but decent id guess

18 halls

[warm canopy]

That's outlaw though

[tropic ocean]

but from that screen

[frail fossil]

that's meh, mage kinda pumping tho

[warm canopy]

Oh I see

yeah

[tropic ocean]

you shouldnt worry about the druid

but wtf is mage doing

4.2k

[warm canopy]

Druid should be beating you

The mage was pretty bad yeah

Pugs lol

[tropic ocean]

yeah so many rerolls with no clue

I depleted 18 spires today

cuz boomkin refused to cd on 3rd add before last boss and his shaman premade refused to lust

it is what it is

[warm canopy]

yikess

idk just mostly been playing sub til now

[tropic ocean]

but to get back to assa

6k overall is decent

and idk u gear

[warm canopy]

221

[tropic ocean]

I usually do 6.5-7k this week @ 223

in outlaw so

i guess thats fine

more than fine than 90% of ppl at 15s anyway

[frail fossil]

i'm usually rotating around 8k but i only run halls/mist for weekly kekw

[tropic ocean]

but at 14s y?

[frail fossil]

i usually do 15/16 for my vault

[dark vigil]

hwho the fuck

did that fire mage

do like 4k

[frail fossil]

dont really lool

bro pug fire mages are built different

[tropic ocean]

think highest mists I did 14 was 8.9k or so

but giga pump group 1.9k russian alts they pull everything dont give a fk

[dark vigil]

meta bandwagoners are usually dogshit

[tropic ocean]

they proc pride and pull last 3 packs before last boss

[warm canopy]

I have a fire mage in guild who green parses every fight and we're 5/10 mythic

[tropic ocean]

well to his defense its harder to log good %ile

on meta dps

[warm canopy]

He's a fotm player

[tropic ocean]

especially this late into the tier

[warm canopy]

Yeah, but I think getting at least blue or purp on farm bosses should be easily doable

[tropic ocean]

definetely y

[dark vigil]

it took me 10 seconds

to understand what %tile meant

ive never seen someone write it like that

[tropic ocean]

maybe this week I can get trinket or dagger

so i dont need to rock 210 trinket and 207 dagger

:>

[cinder geode]

Hi Im very new to assass rogue and rogue in general so bare with me, but why do almost all the top assassination rogues go zoldyck over scoundrel even though scoundrel sims better

looking at logs its like 80-20 zoldyck and MA

[dark vigil]

zoldyck is better overall

especially when multitargets

and execution phase is usually harder part of boss fights (for the most part)

so where the extra damage comes in is more important

even if its slightly less damage on pure st

[cinder geode]

ahh ok ty

[dark vigil]

a good example of this is in denathrius

the last phase of the boss is the hardest part, and its also the "real" damage check. phase 1 damage check is a joke

@cinder geode

council is another good example

well getting to 50% and then getting to 0%

are the damage checks

because eventually the atmosphere shit will be too high

SLG goliaths

and the boss' themselves

sludge.. kinda..

[plain jewel]

So is korayn first strike actually good for m+
If I'm doing triple garote does the 5 seconds of crit matter that much

[dusky vault]

Garotte can crit so the extra crit with empowered garotte's is huge

[dark vigil]

it also helps with FoK CP building

its very much worth it

and i'd personally run lethal poisons

but i think well placed steel isnt bad either

[plain jewel]

Isn't the crit only for 5 second at the start of the fight. Or am I misunderstanding how first strike works

[balmy condor]

yes

but it's per target

[stoic needle]

it gets refreshed with each new target you garotte

so if you quad garotte you get 9 seconds of first strike crit bonus

[tribal marlin]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ep55XnDRpE

there it is for you my bros

[faint harness]

Did you play gcd perfect

[tribal marlin]

hahahahahaha

no but not bad

I delayed vendetta for like 10sec too much in both p2 and p3 make me loose like 6sec of Vend at the end

• potion

that's the biggest issue but still ended up 1st in boss damage

I uploaded for progression purpose, some folks asked me

[slow marsh]

Doesn't look too different from heroic. Just knockback is reversed and everyone goes to adds on platforms. Nice

[tribal marlin]

there are some differences in timings and the additionnal damage requierement (which shouldn't be a problem nowaday)

[lament mica]

isnt melee and range being in diff phases the most complicated part of p3

[tribal marlin]

not really once you get use to the placement and movement

but the 2nd massacre needs you to actually step on your friend perfect timing other wise you cheat / die

[safe nacelle]

Any theories/speculations on the legendary changes? Will Zoldyck be trounced by some of the buffs?

[tribal marlin]

Zoldyck could be lower than some other legendary but

it still the best execute in the game

I mean it's the dream execute

Raw damage amp, active on dots = downtimes

etc...

[safe nacelle]

Word

[tribal marlin]

Depend what they are going to add as "new feature" in 9.1

[dark vigil]

execute and st are the most valuable niches in raiding

sin has both with zoldyck

even if its like 100-200 dps lower

it will be better on most fights

9.0.5 niche with the vendetta cd legendary will prob be bis for sludge

[tribal marlin]

And you're not fully commited into one leggo. If you don't find any clear value commiting into execute (let's say a hard dps check single phase short encounter with <2mn execute and lust on pull)

[dark vigil]

since you sould be able to get vendetta up for every pillar

[tribal marlin]

you can still go for another legendary

But spoiler : Sylvanas is not going to be a "Single phase short encounter with <2mn execute" ^^

We're more likely looking at like 15 phases encounters with spread cleave phases, ST phases, DPS requierement and big execute for a 15mn fight

most likely

[dark vigil]

if sylvannas fight has important adds that dont die in 10 secs tho..

[polar cape]

its okay we can spec the fok talent for those <.<

[dark vigil]

fok talent

i wish it were good

[trim zinc]

Fok talent?

[tribal marlin]

It will depend on tuning. But yeah if Rogues pumps hard and harder in execute we're going to have a gucci spot in raids. Because our DPS is always consistant throught downtimes especially with Zoldyck.
I can't wait for 9.1 annoucement regarding gameplay but having further enhancement to our dots will deffo bring us in a good spot.

Hopefully at least, we're still dependant on tuning and bring 0 value to the raid aside from DPS / niche DPS.

[dark vigil]

fan of knives talent

the one that makes it do more dmg the longer u dont use it

[trim zinc]

Eeewww

[dark vigil]

yeah

it'd be cool to play around with if it werent terrible

just let a fat FoK rip every once in awhile

[tribal marlin]

This talent should have been "redesign" into something already perfectly designed : Echoing Blade.

Like since the begining of this expac

Note that Echoing Blade is still not Target Cap and yet the best way to XP boost friends / customers is still to play triple echoing blade Freehold boost.

[dark vigil]

what was echoing blade

[tribal marlin]

Assuming you saved some of these AZerite armor somewhere

[nocturne hawk]

Imagine designing a talent that encourages not using an ability lol. Even if it promotes using it at the right time instead, kinda shit design

[tribal marlin]

basically pseudo-quadratic scaling

[dark vigil]

oh that sounds really good

yeah i didnt play that much of bfa, just watched it

had a lot going on irl

[low girder]

i saved no azerite because i couldn't put it in my void storage

[strange python]

So after some looking, how bad is it to take Necrolords instead of Night Fae?

[fleet whale]

Not that bad really

[tribal marlin]

!bis

[prisma monolith]

Whispyrs Bis list: http://tiny.cc/76r5tz

[tribal marlin]

Assuming Whispyrs evaluation Niya is big dam for Assa with Zoldyck

But SBS is definitely underperforming as a spell so might iterate on it.

The only change on PTR regarding SBS is that the direct damage part of it is now scaling with Mastery

not even the dot.

Wierd change tbh, but we should see it as a sign that they are iterating on it.

I would actually love to go into PTR and do tons of testes with legendary, but as I said to Blizzard theimself : Give me soul ashes, give me access to all legendary and I'll test and give feed back.

But otherwise, I'm not going to play more PTR

it's pointless

[fleet whale]

the main positive of going necrolord is what you bring in plaguefall and Theater

since necros are the least popular of the four covenants

[tribal marlin]

and it also give you a raid value

throught Emeni

[fleet whale]

The raid value that Emeni brings is actually very minimal

a lot of necro rogues just roll as Heim

[tribal marlin]

ye I guess Heimir way better now

[mortal tartan]

i stopped playing after i switched to sin after the first buff, what are the rogue specs looking like now

[tribal marlin]

Dependant on tuning

[fleet whale]

sin looks promising in 9.0.5

it's decent now, should be pretty good when that patch hits

[mortal tartan]

is outlaw still the best overall?

or is it way more even now

[fleet whale]

right now yes

in 9.0.5, we'll see

[tribal marlin]

Assa have strong Execute, possibly the best one of the entiere game.
Subt struggle but maybe Venthyr and additionnal game mechanics around shadow damage could make it ramp.
Outlaw is very strong spec overall, high tuned and very fun.

[strange python]

If nothing changes still outlaw for 9.0.5

[fleet whale]

well, sin will sim higher st than outlaw in 9.0.5

unless if outlaw gets a buff

[tribal marlin]

Rogues still bring no raid value so it has to be tuned high to be brought in raid

[fleet whale]

or sin gets a nerf

[mortal tartan]

alright ty i haven't really played wow since i got aotc

[strange python]

I guess my next question then is, if I want to play multiple specs, would Necrolords be alright?

[fleet whale]

yeah, but all covenants "work" for all three specs anyway

[tribal marlin]

All covenant are fine for rogue

[strange python]

Wish I could find a good "robe style" transmog though. Playing Mechagnome and the legs is kind of annoying.

[fleet whale]

most leather robes are druid like

[strange python]

I know. The diaper look kind of sucks. But eh, guess I can live.

I do thank everyone for the help though. It is nice to have a helpful community like this.

[tribal marlin]

Maybe T0

[mortal tartan]

this is by far the best class discord i've been in

[tribal marlin]

You'll welcome haha

[mortal tartan]

the druid one is so scuffed

[slow marsh]

Mikihisa you changed your pic

[tribal marlin]

yeah

I prefer blue

[slow marsh]

But now you are no longer the face of sin

[tribal marlin]

I never had been the face of sin

It always has been Eviscerate icon

[nocturne hawk]

Face of NF now~

[tribal marlin]

But I realised it was also the icon of Assasination spec pre WoD

yeaaah long live Night Faes xD

[nocturne hawk]

I'm just happy NF turned out to be good, and the zone is probably the easiest on the eyes. Must suck ass being necro lol

[slow marsh]

Lool oop just showed my wow boomer age

[manic harness]

Zone is the hardest on my GPU though

I had to turn off AA in order to make my graphics card not freak out

I play at 4k res anyway so it's not a huge deal but I hate Ard for that reason lol

[nocturne hawk]

I could imagine lol

I have settings pretty low, don't care about the look as long as I'm getting all 240 buttery frames

[manic harness]

I was considering to get a 4k 144hz monitor but I don't really play much other than old school RPGs and WoW so it prob isn't worth it

Every once in a while I get the itch to play other things but then I feel guilty and go do my dailies

[faint harness]

If you play rpgs (and wow), its still a very fuckin good screen, but sort of wasted ye

[faint canopy]

what are the chances that Venthyr ends up being better than Nf for sin?

[balmy condor]

somewhere from 0 to 1

[faint canopy]

out of 10? (?

[balmy condor]

0 to 10

[dark vigil]

we dont know bro

the ability itself looks better on paper but it really comes down to simming it to an extent because the soulbinds are so good for nf

and are less good for venthyr

[faint canopy]

ah, i see

and simming support only comes on live? or we'll be able to sim it in ptr soon?

[stoic needle]

It will get implemented in simc whenever it's not bugged on the ptr

[faint canopy]

oh, i didn't know it was bugged

[balmy condor]

yeh

the haste stacks are acting weird

and we don't entirely know if the ability is working as intended and the tooltip is wrong, or the tooltip is correct, and the ability is wrong

[night cipher]

Can I force vault Vial by going sin spec ?

Unlicky so far with the other 2 loot specs on

[balmy condor]

what

why would that have any effect

[night cipher]

Maybe poisons

Green stuff

No idea

[balmy condor]

they aren't actual poisons, and don't interact with shiv

[night cipher]

I know

[balmy condor]

but if your inner gambler believes in some fated connection between the two

go for it

it won't do anything

[fallow otter]

I think we have already proven that the only way to get phial is to give a reach around to someone at blizzard but @balmy condor won't tell me who?!

[balmy condor]

true

losers

[fallow otter]

I can link my ilvl

[night cipher]

Well then he can do it for us, we dont need to know who he is 🙂

[fallow otter]

Will that do anything to you

[balmy condor]

probably not

[fallow otter]

Didn't think so

I can't make you jealous about raid either because m slg sucks donkey knob, it ain't fun

So... At this point... You've got all the power here bud

Stop hurting my feelings

[balmy condor]

[stoic needle]

all phialers must burn

[solar flicker]

is 1 vault option the phial tech

[stoic needle]

idk man

[solar flicker]

ive just been running 4 a week the past month

lost all hope might just do 1

[stoic needle]

i cant afford to run just 1 and get even farther down the rio curve

i have to keep up

[fallow otter]

Ill run ce in your face soon

You'll pay

[balmy condor]

[fallow otter]

[solar flicker]

as long as i can run timed 15 boosts idc about io honestly

[stoic needle]

yeah well i can't even do that so

[solar flicker]

so any word on flag on the ptr? saved?

[low girder]

still broken unfortunately

[solar flicker]

[balmy condor]

I tried to import my wa's into the ptr build

and it just hard crashed me

instantly

lmao

[low girder]

rofl

[fallow otter]

Such shit

Phial noob

I heard it you vendor a 226 phial all your weak auras work perfectly

[balmy condor]

aight

I like flag

[cunning needle]

dont say that. i dont want to reroll cov again

[fallow otter]

It's the dagger wings mog that you like, don't pretend

[balmy condor]

new flag is just sepsis but better

[placid egret]

I dig it

[faint harness]

Can it make up for the trashy binds

[balmy condor]

idk

no implementation lul

[faint harness]

Unfortunate

[balmy condor]

my napkin math is awful

(see cttc napkin math)

[fallow otter]

How's the animation

[balmy condor]

idk

red?

[faint harness]

Very fucking cool bro

The shiniest of red

[balmy condor]

do our covenant abilities actually have animations

hard to tell

[fallow otter]

Is it the same animation but red

[balmy condor]

pretty much

yeah

[faint harness]

Its only been this

Forever no?

[balmy condor]

the animation is the same as current flag

I'm like 99%

[fallow otter]

I don't think I've ever grouped with a venth rogue

[faint harness]

The weapon enchant red thing

Same as slaughter

[strange python]

[balmy condor]

idk

if it's not like 5% worse

I think I'm gonna be a venthyr gamer

[stark heart]

I think that animation is also still bugged?

When you sheath your weapons

[stark heart]

Sepsis has some blue sparkles and spin when you apply it, dot has as well but on a boss the last bit is very hard to tell

[balmy condor]

yeh

mostly meme

[stark heart]

Idk I dig new flag, couldn't test stacks cap, guess because of ping, only reached 24 max :(

[fallow otter]

Stay collecting gear without haste on it maybe?

[faint harness]

24 without conduit?

[stark heart]

You think 12 seconds of haste stacks one in 1.5 mins gonna make haste trash?

[faint harness]

as sin?

[stark heart]

Without yes

[faint harness]

thats probably upper levels of what you can expect

[stark heart]

I need 200 anime on ptr to unlock even first soulbind

I mean I wanted to reach higher stacks so I picked talents/lego specifically for that purpose

[faint harness]

mfd?

[stark heart]

Mfd/ma

[faint harness]

oh

[stark heart]

Ma lego not talent

[faint harness]

yea i tried getting stacks with regular build on ptr

and below 20

[stark heart]

So you pump stacks real good at the start

[faint harness]

without conduit

[stark heart]

If I had conduit I'd be close to cap

[faint harness]

only possible with vendetta up tho

quite sure

but maybe you delay flag for vendetta

[fallow otter]

Nah don't think so but should be interesting

[stark heart]

Ven gives you energy but eats a gcd

[faint harness]

vendetta is not a gcd

anymore

[stark heart]

Oh right they removed that

[faint harness]

funny how you didnt notice

[stark heart]

Anyway, with 200ms I couldn't reach 30 to check

And no conduit

[fallow otter]

So... Flag 1.5mins?

[ornate raptor]

If flag will be better on live aswell i will reroll. Venthyr got some cool mogs

[stark heart]

Flag at least has aoe value

[faint harness]

1.5 mins

not sure if theres a cap on it

[stark heart]

Spell data says 30

[faint harness]

oh

[stark heart]

But spell data may lie

[faint harness]

old spell was 30

but new doesnt have it in tooltip

[stark heart]

new one has 30 as well

[faint harness]

was it recently added then?

[stark heart]

spell data != tooltip

🙂

[faint harness]

its not the same

[stark heart]

it still has it on ptr

[fallow otter]

Might just not be good because coz of desync from vend? Unless it's super pog like bote

[faint harness]

might hold it

[fallow otter]

Yeh like bote

But considering the new cap of secondaries, might be different

[faint harness]

not affected by spell gains

• its not haste rating anyway

its haste %

[fallow otter]

Haste % ignores the scaling % Dr right, but i thought it still affected the scaling of the haste rating of your gear accordingly

Is that not how it works

[balmy condor]

% ignores the DR

correct

[fallow otter]

But did it affect the way the haste on your gear scales

While it's active

Or they totally independent

[balmy condor]

I'm not sure what you mean by that

[stark heart]

some temporary haste % buff has nothing to do with your gear haste rating

it's a separate thing

[fallow otter]

Like while it's active, you have 50% haste for example and let's just say that's from flag just to make it easy

[balmy condor]

sure

[fallow otter]

If I get haste on my boots

While it's active is the haste worth the same on those boots while it's active vs not

[balmy condor]

the haste gets buffed by the 50%

[fallow otter]

Ok

[stoic needle]

[balmy condor]

if we're talking stat scaling

then yeah

I guess

[fallow otter]

Im guessing it's gonna be like bote tbh

[balmy condor]

you'll want less haste

but it

[fallow otter]

Probs gonna holds it

[balmy condor]

really doesn't affect anything

that major

[stark heart]

I dunno what you mean by that

[balmy condor]

dude I have no fucking clue what the question even is I'm gonna be honest

[stark heart]

but if the question is answered so be it

[balmy condor]

if i have 100 gear haste

[stark heart]

yeah same

[fallow otter]

Hahaha

[stark heart]

[balmy condor]

and a 50% haste buff

then we have 100 gear haste which is dr

• 50 haste

so like

idk what this gear non gear haste gear no gear stat weight scaling stuff is

[stark heart]

I have a hypothesis...

[balmy condor]

also could just be a flat 50% haste

idk really

if it's 50% of your current haste or 50% haste flat

[fallow otter]

My helm gives me 33% haste, during xuen and for this reason haste is worth nothing in terms of stat weights, just wondering if this is going to give you the same treatment

[balmy condor]

oh

god no

[stark heart]

if you think haste is additive then it's not how it works. haste from gear is its own multiplier, haste form flag is its own, so you get
(1+gear_haste) * (1+flag_haste) * ...

[balmy condor]

^

but the question is

"does flag devalue haste"

and the answer is yes

[stark heart]

that gear_haste is being converted from rating to % and THAT is subject to dr

nothing else

[balmy condor]

but then you add "to the point where I don't want to gear it"

and the answer is heeeeeeeeeeellllllllll no

[faint harness]

you get double the haste ye?

additive + multi

[fallow otter]

Yep this is the question answer

[balmy condor]

well then case closed I guess

[stark heart]

DR in the sense that next 1 rating gonna give you less haste %

[balmy condor]

[stark heart]

but that's about it

[faint harness]

i mean

[balmy condor]

ngl

I'm still lost

but we're figuring it out together

[fallow otter]

Did someone say haste

[stark heart]

finally soulbind on ptr

that took a while

[faint harness]

you actually did the grind

[stark heart]

preparing for eventual swap on live

[stoic needle]

join me brothers

[stark heart]

first I have to make flag + xsang actually work tho

[stoic needle]

It won't

I mean, I hope I'm wrong because I think exsang is cool

[stark heart]

then why would I be venthyr then

[stoic needle]

But I don't think it will work

Because it's the best covenant, duh

[stark heart]

idk, soulbinds so far seems quite weak, ngl

[balmy condor]

exsang ain't coming back b0ss

[stoic needle]

They are trash

[stark heart]

yeah yeah, you told me cttc is bad and stuff

[balmy condor]

wow

[fallow otter]

Dood we would have to Tb and exsang wtf

[balmy condor]

low blow

[stoic needle]

But I can deal with trash soulbinds as long as the covenant ability isn't trash too

Theotar is unironically better than nadjia

[stark heart]

yeah so far I was just almost ignoring shiv

[stoic needle]

In all practical applications except sims

[balmy condor]

nah but like I ran a sim with a profile that had capped gear haste

[stark heart]

1 envenom in the window - I am fine

[balmy condor]

and exsang was still shit

[fallow otter]

Thank baby jesus I don't think my muscle memory could learn how to shiv and exsang. Probs just get a headache

[stoic needle]

It's not so much that exsang is shit, it's that alacrity is too good

I wonder if buffed doomblade changes that at all

[stark heart]

with my shit gear I have 18% haste, make that say 20% from flag on top and you have 41.6% that xsang snaps

idk, sounds promising enough for me

also imagine having actual burst

[fallow otter]

I feel like bloodfang gonna be bis eventually, who wants to take that bet

[stoic needle]

I mean like you can sim it

It doesn't matter how much haste you have exsang isn't as good as alacrity

[fallow otter]

With them tweaking I mean

[balmy condor]

a character with 126% haste can't make exsang work either

[stark heart]

yeah cap is still 30 stacks

thanks conduit

[fallow otter]

Does it actually get closer with more haste

[stoic needle]

So only 30% haste?

[balmy condor]

not really

I don't remember exactly

[stark heart]

well it's not easy to reach

[balmy condor]

but it might've went from like 6% down

to maybe 5%

[stark heart]

I blew mfd and vanish with crit lego for it

[balmy condor]

it was still trash

[stoic needle]

I think it got worse with more haste because exsang isn't worth the GCD to cast

[balmy condor]

well we tried at 40%, 60%, 80%, etc

[stoic needle]

I mean 30% haste is still sick

[balmy condor]

and it was trash then too

[stark heart]

you are not gcd capped class tho

you are resource capped

[balmy condor]

like I'm very sure

[stoic needle]

No like, with 127% haste it wasn't worth the gcd

[balmy condor]

I'm not sure about that

[stoic needle]

Didn't you say at maxed haste it stopped casting exsang altogether

[stark heart]

again how concept of that is applied to assa)

[fallow otter]

Lol

[balmy condor]

idk

seems weird to me tho

[stoic needle]

The point is that no matter how much haste you get exsang never adds more dps than alacrity does

[balmy condor]

correct

having 20% non dr haste on top of your haste just gives more deeps than an exsang every 45 sec

is the conclusion

[stoic needle]

It sucks, because zoldyck exsang would be fucking fun as hell

[stark heart]

it's 10% Whisp

[balmy condor]

yeh typo

same thing

[stark heart]

10 =20 in #assassination , noted

(jk)

[fallow otter]

Bloodfang

One day

Im calling it

[balmy condor]

it's in line with cttc 1% = 3%

[stoic needle]

I want to try to rerun the sims with different fight types to see if heavy movement or anything like that could make exsang more attractive

[fallow otter]

34% crit bloodfang is bis

[balmy condor]

I'll tell you right now that it'll probably be less attractive

[stoic needle]

Like maybe it's a dps loss on patchwerk but could have some use for slg or sun king when you need to burst something

Or sludge

[stark heart]

on sludge you play bench

[balmy condor]

if exsang isn't worth normally, it sure as hell won't be worth with movement

and jank

[stoic needle]

I mean last pillar vendetta zoldyck is big

[stark heart]

gl competing with combust or convoke

[stoic needle]

After 9.0.5 we have the highest execute phase dps in the game

[balmy condor]

why make 30% big when you can just make 100% big

you realize alacrity buffs your last pillar vendetta zoldyck cream fest too right

[stoic needle]

Sure but more than exsang?

[balmy condor]

for that specific 10 second interval

no

for like

the minute around the pillar

definitely

[fallow otter]

Im top melee in our group, whats yours

[stoic needle]

Feels like shit just want exsang to be good

[stoic needle]

*as monk

[fallow otter]

Yup

I think monk is best melee?

Warrior suck I know that

[faint harness]

why do ppl have a hard-on for exsang, no flame just dont understand whats so great about it

[stoic needle]

The concept is cool

[stark heart]

last pillar for us woyer is highest

(among melee)

[fallow otter]

Maybe fond memories from 9x exp

[stoic needle]

I didn't play in 8.3 and I think that exsang is cool

[stark heart]

but afflie and boomies are unreachable pretty much

[faint harness]

exsang was cooler when it was 400%

[fallow otter]

What class

[stoic needle]

I mean you are a dot class, and sometimes you get to press fast forward and do some burst damage with said dots

[stark heart]

woyer = warrior

[stoic needle]

I think that's cool

[stark heart]

[fallow otter]

Real?

[stoic needle]

And the snapshotting is just gravy

[faint harness]

so a reversed aff lock

they can do that without depleting their current dots

[stoic needle]

Yeah

[balmy condor]

Snapshotting is kind of trash in general

[fallow otter]

What about overall for your warrior? Trash?

[stoic needle]

I mean I just enjoy abilites that operate on interactions between your skills

[faint harness]

yea i dont think blizz is particularly fond of snapshotting seeing as they removed 99% of it

[balmy condor]

Snapshots are unintuitive game jank

[stark heart]

81th percentile

[stoic needle]

Hard disagree but w/e

[fallow otter]

Compared to other melee warrior lowest though or no?

[stoic needle]

Only unintuitive if they aren't explained. Explain them and then that criticism doesn't really apply

[stark heart]

nope

DH is lowest

[balmy condor]

Show me where exsang is explained

[stoic needle]

That's blizzard's fault, not snapshotting's fault as a concept

[stark heart]

but he soaks tank one and sometimes boss is charged so poorly you won't be able to reach the boss from tank soak

[stark heart]

I mean you can say that about so many things in this game

[balmy condor]

Yes

And I think that’s a shame

[stark heart]

find me where poison is clearly stated for example

[balmy condor]

But why should a 15 second haste buff

[stark heart]

such damage type doesn't exist even

[balmy condor]

Not be a 15 second haste buff

[fallow otter]

This is our first kill

[stoic needle]

I think the game is genuinely worse off for having interactions that reward skill like snapshotting removed. Monk is full of conditionals and cool interactions between their abilities and it's badass

[balmy condor]

It’s a 15 second haste buff but you snapshot it 10 seconds in with a 25 second dot that you reduce to 12.5 seconds

Fuck that shit dude

[stoic needle]

It doesn't have to be snapshotting specifically but specs in general don't have enough interesting things to do

[stark heart]

wait what?

[stoic needle]

They're all just build, spend

[stark heart]

15 seconds haste buff?

[stoic needle]

Press CDs on cd

It's fucking boring

[balmy condor]

Yes, it is

But snapshotting doesn’t make it less boring

It makes it more jank

[stoic needle]

Yes it does

[balmy condor]

For the sake of jank

[stoic needle]

Nah man that's a cop out

They could explain that shit and it wouldn't be jank at all

[fallow otter]

Im not kidding when I said going back to rogue atm is fuckin boring and it makes me sad

[balmy condor]

How the fuck does exsang haste snapshotting make it more interesting

You don’t play around any of it

You play the same way

[stoic needle]

Why wouldn't you play around it

[balmy condor]

What

[stoic needle]

It makes certain trinkets more valuable

[balmy condor]

Because it’s never been worth

[stoic needle]

Sounds like a tuning issue

[balmy condor]

Lmao

Aight man

I’m fuming

Got some shit arguments tbh

I’m out

[stoic needle]

"snapshotting isn't explained therefore it's bad" is the worst argument I've ever heard

And it's so easily fixed by blizzard doing their fucking job

[frozen karma]

raidbots is telling me to sepsis out of stealth, is that actually what tou're supposed to do?

[balmy condor]

Where have you stated that snapshotting is good either. You said “interactions that reward skill like snapshotting”, except you don’t play around exsang haste snapshots, and never have. You said it makes it more interesting, which I fail to see because again, you don’t actually do anything, and then when I press on that fact you go “Lmao tune better then so we do play around blizz”

[stoic needle]

If you want to say 'snapshotting is bad because it limits game design because it has to be balanced around for encounters' that's a totally different story

[balmy condor]

The fuck is that kinda logic

“Snapshotting would be really cool if it didn’t work the way it does”

Yeah

Thanks

I get that

But the way it works now doesn’t do anything

[balmy condor]

Opener logic is kinda whatever, but if you want to, you can copy it

[stark heart]

who is the Zera the Red Rogue?

[balmy condor]

@gray fjord who are you

[frozen karma]

i guess looking for assass logs would probly be better?

[gray fjord]

Um I mean

I feel like this is a trick question, Whispyr. xD

[frozen karma]

just trying to mess around with it, maybe I'll end up playing it on denathrius idk

[balmy condor]

As long as you check the boxes (1 garrote from Subt, mut’s in MA, getting snd/rup/gar up and then vendetta), you’re fine

[fallow otter]

This is the worst/lack of grammar I have seen you use

[stark heart]

you made a ticket on bugtracker, but Flag gives correct haste. Haste is multiplicative to what you have on gear so with 25 stacks and 13.39% base you should be having
1.1339 * 1.25 = 1.417375 which is exactly what you stated in ticket
@gray fjord

[balmy condor]

There should be a comma there

[gray fjord]

@fallow otter XD Yeah I was in the middle of testing some stuff on the PTR

[fallow otter]

You're forgiven bro

[gray fjord]

Ahh okay, I wasn't sure at the moment to be honest I can remove that bug post then, that's my b. xD

[faint harness]

these kind of buffs always gives both right

[pliant flare]

maffs

[gray fjord]

It was really weird on the old old Beta version of Flag because it was giving a percentage of your actual gears haste (like if you remember it was giving 15% of your 10% haste, so 1.5% or whatnot which was obviously wrong) I wasn't quite sure how the calculation was intended to work or not. I guess it's the same way alacrity works, now that I think of it. ^^;

[stoic needle]

Maybe exsang specifically isn't played around but the mechanic of snapshotting itself could be incorporated into our abilites(and across the game in general) in a way that encourages us to play around it. But still, it does create more interesting decisions as a player, like if you were running exsang a trinket that gives haste or picking venthyr would become more valuable for the times that your trinket / flag and exsang line up. I don't get why you like subterfuge but you don't like exsang or NS even though they use the same mechanics

[stark heart]

I haven't played with old flag but I am pretty sure additive behaviour is super rare in wow, last time I can recall it is agonizing poison interaction with artifact weapon traits

[stoic needle]

I'm not even trying to die on this hill about exsang / snapshotting specifically. I just want our class to be more interesting than just build spend CDs on CD

[stark heart]

and was that a pita to figure out

[stoic needle]

Exsang, NS, etc are the few things left that have any hope of doing that

[fallow otter]

Last 2 rows need a revamp make alacrity baseline

Fixt

[gray fjord]

@stark heart Yeah the first iteration of Flagellation literally was horrible and broken, I guess my smoothbrain didn't realize that Alacrity has always worked like the way you just explained it but now that I looked at my stacks I see what you mean. xD Whoopsie.

[balmy condor]

And we can agree on that. Snapshotting would be cool if it was actually a thing. I’m not sure where you got the idea that I don’t like NS though. I think NS is just weak, and subterfuge cleaving garrotes is much more versatile than vanishing into a rupture, which is why I think there should be a replacement of some kind. I’m all for more player skill being introduced and more interesting interactions, but IMO, snapshotting in the current form of the game, ain’t it. We had vita in 8.3 with giga haste, shit went crazy bonkers when it procced, but we didn’t play around it. In legion we had blood of the assassinated, kinda cool, but also not really controllable, and didn’t make NS any better. So yes, snapshotting, maybe cool, if done differently, but right now it provides no gain to player skill aside from like “oh no don’t overwrite the empowered garrotes” or something (which also isn’t shown in the base ui, speaking of blizzard being bad). I think that expression can exist just by way of specs being more interesting in their choices, and their interactions, not specifically over a “hidden” game mechanic that currently just changes some math in the background for those eager enough to understand it

Like you cited windwalker

I think windwalker is fun, and has some interesting gameplay decisions

I would personally like to see sin be the scheming thinking ahead type going on, planning and stuff, but I’m not sure how to do that

And obviously you’ve seen my rework so you know my thoughts on a lot of stuff

We also agree that bleed tick advancement is pretty lit

(Which happens to be an uncommon take from what I hear)

[stark heart]

BRF Sub

[balmy condor]

Multistrike

Trash stat but imagine sub multistrike on sin with venomous wounds

[stoic needle]

Sorry I guess I misremembered you saying that ns is bad comparatively to thinking that you just don't like it at all. They should probably just combine NS and subterfuge into one talent and put something else in its spot entirely. But I understand what you're saying though that buffing exsang into viability with just overtuning is kinda weird in the current context of the game. I don't know how to fix it either, sadly. Probably why I'm not a game designer

[balmy condor]

yeh same

[stoic needle]

I'd love to see something like a damage amp based on the number of targets you have dotted. Or something that activates when youve got all of your dots up on a target. Venomous wounds is kind of cool but it sort of falls off when we have infinite energy yet everything that we do with that energy doesn't amount to much

[balmy condor]

you didn't play bfa right? cause classic?