assassination

[shut garnet]

yo whispyr did you know sin is one of the best scaling specs in the game

[drowsy hollow]

I'm sure most people in guilds who organize weekly m+ 15s any never pug have the same delusions

[balmy condor]

maybe IM THE PROBLEM

[shut garnet]

preach said so it must be true

[vestal wren]

assassination is the best scaling rogue spec

[shut garnet]

pulls up scalling sheet from MoP

[vestal wren]

does not mean it scales better/worse than other classes

[balmy condor]

fuu pls

[short hamlet]

[shut garnet]

⚖️

[short hamlet]

Not realizing we could SCALE

[balmy condor]

it isn't even the best scaling rogue spec right now

pls

[vestal wren]

but balance will come down to other factors

[balmy condor]

fuu

[short hamlet]

To the heavens!!!

⚖️ ➡️👼

Were scaling to the heavens bois

Preach taught me

[vestal wren]

i mean assassination has a low baseline^^

they literally buffed the spec aura by 20%

so

[icy crater]

guys a youtuber told me rogues scale hard with gear because in TBC they sucked in t4 but with glaives they owned

[short hamlet]

[wide prism]

do we spec into cut to the chase after the slice and dice buff?

[balmy condor]

even then

[balmy condor]

?

the what the who now

[vestal wren]

the snd r2 change is meh

[balmy condor]

do we spec into a passive after a buff which is a nerf

[vestal wren]

i don't like it

[balmy condor]

[vestal wren]

just makes pressing snd feel worse

[balmy condor]

but now we don't need to press it

[vestal wren]

we still do

you just don't have a noticeable impact

[short hamlet]

Is it realistic to do our entire maintenance rotation in 18 sec and build up another 6cp to envenom to actually never have to use snd

[slow marsh]

I thought they were moving the r2 snd to be baseline for all specs

oh i see they removed that part

[drowsy hollow]

Datamine error

Rely on the blue post notes

[slow marsh]

Well here's to another update before the patch

For m+ when should i go MP and when should I swap to CT? I feel like I'm losing out on too much going CT considering we have one major cd and its ST

Like is it dungeon dependent or what's the logic

[balmy condor]

you should never go MP in m+

and always go CT

[stoic needle]

The aoe dps loss of not having ct is way too big

[slow marsh]

kk and korayn still?

sorry just started actually caring about keys after hitting 3 15's last night

[balmy condor]

korayn, or herbs

I haven't noticed much a difference between the two

[stoic needle]

Pressing fok and actually getting full cp is pretty noticeable

[balmy condor]

yeah

in the FEELING

I fok and get 4 cp

it MUST be good

[subtle tundra]

ah yes when there are 15 mobs and i have to fok 3 times for full cp

blizz is so smart at making specs feel good

[spice spire]

Should I go herbs or Infinite Stars for M+?

[subtle tundra]

i'd go echoing void

[stoic needle]

It's a nice bandaid until we hit that juicy 40% crit threshold and start scaling

[balmy condor]

you have misunderstood young padawan, 40% is sub

we scale much earlier

at 34%

[stoic needle]

[spice spire]

Ahhh yes 34% the pinnacle of existence

[slow marsh]

Oh that brings up a question I had last night when talking to a mage about crit. Does our mutilate stack crit since it hits twice?

[pliant apex]

Is doom blade going to be no brainer fit ST over zoldyck soon? Just saw pins

[subtle tundra]

nothing on the ptr is set in stone. wait for release

[pliant apex]

I understand but that can be a possibility yes

[balmy condor]

you can get 4 cp from a mutilate

[kind veldt]

Just stack your soul ASS and wait

[slow marsh]

Doomblade as it stands on ptr still doesn't outweigh having an execute

[pliant apex]

Ohh I see

[kind veldt]

The whole thing about sin rogue, is execute for progression

[pliant apex]

But I will just stack ash good advice

[kind veldt]

And typically@being an easier spec to play while learning fights

[pliant apex]

Yea , I play it after learning fights too just saying

[slow marsh]

Yeah so for example if we have 34% crit and hit muti it's 64 since it hits with both daggers and has an extra chance to crit? Or is that only with spells that hit multiple times

[stoic needle]

That's not how math works

Each hand has an independent chance to crit

[balmy condor]

[thorny pond]

MH rolls and OH rolls are separate

[stoic needle]

34% + 34% is 11% chance for a double crit

[balmy condor]

I mean even on things like convoke, or multi-hits in general

each hit is calculated individually

like uh

[slow marsh]

That's what I thought I was just confused by what my mage guildie was talking about

[balmy condor]

fury warrior

the big slamming thing they do

to dump rage

hits like 5 times

[stoic needle]

Whirlwind

[balmy condor]

no

[solar hare]

Rampage

[subtle tundra]

rampgae.

[balmy condor]

that thing

[stoic needle]

Oh rampage

[solar hare]

Condemn also hits with both weapons

As fury

[stoic needle]

Yeah that ability is weird

[balmy condor]

each one of those hits are calculated independently

[slow marsh]

It didn't sound right but he was pretty confident that if he got to 33% crit and used something that casts 3 bolt thingies it would be a sure crit

[subtle tundra]

there's nothing weird with rampage wat

[balmy condor]

[subtle tundra]

it just hits 5 times

[slow marsh]

Which I knew was wrong but thanks anyways

[thorny pond]

Could hit something 3 times with 33% crit and not get a crit

[subtle tundra]

yes thats how math works

and probability

[stoic needle]

Idk fury as a spec doesn't feel very satisfying to play

[thorny pond]

roll a 3 sides die, 1 side is crit

[stoic needle]

It's kinda boring

[solar hare]

Condemn is really weird as fury

[subtle tundra]

fury is very fun

you just go brrrrrr

[solar hare]

It has 2 separate actions

[slow marsh]

Yeah idk why he thought that tbh but blizz code is weird with some things i guess so figured i'd ask anyways

[solar hare]

Even in details shows condemn and condemn offhand

[dark vigil]

condemn is definteily stronger for arms but i mean.. what u gonna go for fury lol

[thorny pond]

Fury warrior is for the days after head injury

[stoic needle]

Fury warrior right now feels like trash compared to classic fury

Bring back heroic strike with its own gcd

[dark vigil]

bring back smoke bomb

[stoic needle]

Current fury is just another builder spender class with nothing unique

[thorny pond]

hitting rampage is so satisfying

[stoic needle]

Meh

[thorny pond]

rather hit rampage than envenom

[subtle tundra]

there's a reason most classes are builder spender, and at core, similar.

and they dont make more complicated classes

[thorny pond]

Can play a single target DH right now

[stoic needle]

I think that's a bad thing overall

[subtle tundra]

maybe for you, but not for the game

[thorny pond]

Eye beam + chaos strike and glaive storm

[dark vigil]

yeah

dh single target gave me arthiritis

u get like 75% haste

and u mash 2 buttons so fucking hard

[pliant roost]

From a prio perspective for M+ what is most imp to get/keep up SnD>3/4 Rup>CT? always feel like loosing a lot of dmg if dont get CT asap, but then need energy from Rpt

guides seem to vary a bit

[balmy condor]

stealth garrotes > CT, especially in higher target counts > garrotes > snd in low target counts > rupture > envenom

[pliant roost]

ok riight.. been prior rupture more.. wont you be energy starved?

guess can undetand from opener for bc of the 3 garottes

[balmy condor]

lets say you have 5 targets

you have 4 garrotes from stealth, and then either rup, mfd CT, or CT, mfd rup

you would then have 5 bleeds out, and CT

if that energy starves you

then you should put your poisons on

[surreal hawk]

is new flagallation capped ? havent really ever played venthyr so idk

[balmy condor]

capped how

[shut garnet]

haste capped

i think he means

[surreal hawk]

as in u can only get 25 %

or so

[pliant roost]

😄 yh makes sense. prob mid fight and I need to reapply shiitt is where the juggling act getsw confusing

[balmy condor]

it's capped by way of only getting so many finishers in the time frame

[surreal hawk]

yeah ofc but there is no hard cap

[balmy condor]

I don't think so, no

[surreal hawk]

kk

[stoic needle]

How can making specs homogenous and simplistic be anything but bad for the game

[shut garnet]

i was about to flame "4 garrotes from stealth"

then i realised every GARRET now only gives 1cp

shrouded suffocation

[wide bolt]

yea i was playing subt as sin in torghast the other day and it really threw me off not having the 3 cp

[balmy condor]

wait until you hear that garrote and rupture have similar DPET

and that CT in single target is still a thing

[shut garnet]

what the fuck

LMAO

i switched mains to monk anyway so i was generally a bit out the loop w rogue shit but man

assa im actually completely in the fog w anything post prepatch

[balmy condor]

it's just good ol sin

janky mess

basically CT got buffed

early on

like prepatch/launch

and so when you take CT as a talent

it's actually worth casting on single target

when you're not in a shiv window or something

[pseudo hamlet]

But it's better than Poison Bomb?

[balmy condor]

fuck no

that's why I specified "when you take CT as a talent"

[broken steppe]

CT still better for M+?

or stick with PB

[pseudo hamlet]

Was wondering if I missed some patch notes or something. 😐

[balmy condor]

much much MUCH better

wouldn't even take PB on a tyrannical week

PB already sucks

[stoic needle]

Ct on single target

[shut garnet]

how much better is PB on patchwerk sims?

[stoic needle]

I did some sims of this very thing hold on

[wooden star]

pure single target is still blindside/poison bomb. (Ala shriek, hungering) anything else (even consistent two target) CT seems to be the way to go with elaborate planning due to the extra energy

[stoic needle]

Check these sims

@shut garnet

Pb is like a 60-75 dps gain in ST for a 200 dps loss in aoe

[balmy condor]

wait that's actually a talent compare sim

[shut garnet]

o shit

TALENT COMPARE

[shrewd iron]

will doomblade be our go to on st after 9.0.5 hits?

[balmy condor]

haven't seen one of these in years

[shut garnet]

POG FUCKING U

[balmy condor]

probably not

[shut garnet]

https://tenor.com/view/titanic-longtime-years-later-its-been84years-rose-dawson-gif-5453439

[stoic needle]

Is that not a good way to do this

[shut garnet]

ppl usually top gear

and select multiple talents

[balmy condor]

it is, but the functionality is built into top gear

so there's no real point for it existing

[shrewd iron]

aight thx

[balmy condor]

it's like a more manual, slower process

[stoic needle]

I just like talent compare because the results are easier to read that's pretty much it

[nocturne orchid]

Doomblade seems nice

[balmy condor]

yeh I mean there's nothing wrong with talent compare or gear compare or all that

it's just

top gear exists

and top gear does everything you would ever need it to

[stoic needle]

True

I feel like talent compare takes less time to run but that could just be feelcraft

[balmy condor]

oh that's complete feel craft

any time difference is wiped out by the fact that you have to input talent combinations by hand

[gentle sable]

so should i go venthir or stick with night fae ?

[balmy condor]

we don't know how good venthyr is post buff, because they literally announced it less than 24 hours ago

so uh

yes

gogogogogogogog venthyr

right now

very fast

[indigo mulch]

lol

Its been WHOLE hours!!!

[stoic needle]

[indigo mulch]

How do we not know everything about it?!

lulz

[gleaming eagle]

ct is better

but sometimes i forgot to change talent

and end up with pb anyway

[stoic needle]

Just think

25% haste from cov ability, 20% from nadjia, 10% from alacrity

[balmy condor]

hey guys

[stoic needle]

[balmy condor]

do we have new flag sims

is duskwalker good

is doomblade the go to legendary now

is zoldyck dead

is sin good in 9.1

do we play outlaw in m+

[raven locust]

Our own community figure doesn't know about pins

sadge

[balmy condor]

sadge

[stoic needle]

Venthyr sin back to 8.3 haste levels???

[hushed sphinx]

Why would anyone give up soul shape for door of shadows omegalul

[balmy condor]

EXSANG VIABLE?

[split veldt]

https://v.redd.it/iutqqcu2y8i61

[short hamlet]

Is it, though?

[balmy condor]

[verbal mantle]

[next solar]

so Hero + Flag + Vendetta: assass go brrr

[balmy condor]

flag gives almost identical haste to currently

everyone: WOW NEW FLAG HASTE IS INSANE

[vestal wren]

new stuff is exciting

[balmy condor]

it is

but latching onto the weirdest of things is always curious to me

[stoic needle]

Nah, new flag will give more haste for a longer period

[deft vault]

is there gonna be a cap on slice ? or can we get like 2 min slice with cut to the chase

[stoic needle]

Old flag was capped at 15%, this one will easily get to 20%

[balmy condor]

the cap seems to be a normal 5 cp slice

[stoic needle]

And has a 24 second duration instead of 20

[balmy condor]

at least that's what weak was saying

[balmy condor]

yeh true, it is slightly more

I don't think it's actually anything giga though

[tawdry token]

doomblade for hand or shoulder ?

[stoic needle]

I went for gloves because they look cooler

I think shoulders might give marginally better stats though

[balmy condor]

usually you would go hands because high ilvl shoulders off of stone legion, but the difference is super whatever

comes back down to what you have

and what you will have

[tawdry token]

ye im afraid for next content 😄

[solar hare]

hey @balmy condor

do we have new flag sims
is duskwalker good
is doomblade the go to legendary now
is zoldyck dead
is sin good in 9.1
do we play outlaw in m+

🙂

[balmy condor]

[primal gazelle]

i wonder if duskwalker is any good for m+, can probably get infinite energy with 5-6 ruptures out and get the CDR to pretty low cd for vendetta

[balmy condor]

it won't be

[kind veldt]

People inquiring wayyyy too much, wait till the patch is near and more things are set in stone... let the sims and everything ran

[subtle tundra]

vendetta isnt significant enough on aoe 🙂

[dark vigil]

whispyr whispyr should i reroll sin

[tribal marlin]

You are capped by GCD anyway. Which should result at a maximum amount of energy spend per sec around 40

[primal gazelle]

meh

[dark vigil]

zoldyck is too good for m+

[primal gazelle]

rogues need an aoe buff otherwise we'd slowly get phased out of m+ meta

which is already happening

[dark vigil]

outlaw still king of aoe

[dim mirage]

please never

[dark vigil]

folr rogues

[primal gazelle]

u almost had me there

outlaw aoe is dog shit compared to other classes

[dark vigil]

even with the 5 target cap

its still really good for m+ tho

[primal gazelle]

maybe like A tier aoe dps

S would be MM/ww/boom/mages

and dks

[dark vigil]

idk why they went wijth this aoe cap thing when some classes still have like soft cap of 20 targets and some having uncapped

just why

[gray fjord]

B+ at best

[primal gazelle]

there is definitely alot of m+ rogue mains that will be main swapping next patch

[gray fjord]

The meta involves insane burst classes right now

[primal gazelle]

our aoe just isnt enough anymore

[balmy condor]

zera, where's the clickbait tier list man

[gray fjord]

:3

It's a'comin I swear

It'll be there right along with my new assassination rogue build video where I explain exactly what % of each stat you need to make the new Flagellation slapp

[tender fjord]

if you put "scaling" in the title you know it's gonna be a hit

[gray fjord]

Oh hell yeah

On a serious note, I like how it only took Blizz like 7+ months of people complaining between live and beta about SnD in assassination for them to just bring back SnD combo point refreshing as a thing.

[fleet whale]

new doomblade looks kind of nice

[safe pendant]

What do you mean? I love having to choose between re-dotting and slice and dice

[dark vigil]

its not bad but

[fleet whale]

i won't use it over zold

[gray fjord]

Zoldyck is too consistent/good across the board to be denied. xD Doomblade might become the new Akaari's, I guess, where it's the best in single target by a tiny tiny margin or something, but Zoldyck lets you do everything with no repurcussions other than your raid wiping too early for you to get use out of it. lol

[stoic needle]

With hunter getting gutted there's more room for us than ever

[candid quarry]

Is it worth swapping over to venthyr at this point u guys think? or should i wait until we are closer to patch (Renown lvl 1) (Leveling still)

[primal gazelle]

not really

meta rn is 2 range 1 melee dps for m+

[vestal wren]

i think bringing back the snd refresh is nice

[primal gazelle]

with hunters out, that leaves boom/mage for the 2 spots

[vestal wren]

purging snd rank 2, nope

[primal gazelle]

rogues still get out aoe'ed by ww/dk

for the melee spot

[shy dust]

Why if it was compensated

[vestal wren]

feedback loop

[shy dust]

Makes using SnD feel worse?

[strange python]

hunter players

[vestal wren]

snd does not feel important to press, snd rank 2 fixed that

[stoic needle]

Aren't dk shit for m+

[vestal wren]

removing it now, brings back the old issue

[limber lion]

Yeah, it just doesn't feel good to press.

[primal gazelle]

pretty sure there were more dk than rogues in the mdi

[vestal wren]

even tho "Nothing changes"

[stoic needle]

MDI is not really m+

Not for any normal player

Dk have really strong uncapped aoe which works in mdi where you pull the whole dungeon at once

[primal gazelle]

normal players dont do 18+ either

[stoic needle]

But for normal people I don't think that dk is that much better than rogue besides amz in m+

[primal gazelle]

the meta never matters for normal players

that do 14-15s

[stoic needle]

Yes it does wdym

[primal gazelle]

and below for the vault

any class can do 15s fine

[gray fjord]

People don't care about that

xD

[stoic needle]

No matter what level key you do pugs suck the dick of the meta

[gray fjord]

They want what they know gets results, which is the meta.

^

Even if you don't NEED those things, they're trained to think it's the ONLY WAY you can time a 15

[primal gazelle]

i still do 10 14s a week for the vault, most of the time its with random ass specs

[stoic needle]

You can't get invited to keys unless you are doing the meta

[vestal wren]

they don't think its the only way

[stoic needle]

Yes cuz ur main probably has good rio

[vestal wren]

but that it gives a huge advantage

[strange python]

waiting in a pug for 90 minutes declining every single tank until a VDH applies

[primal gazelle]

but when i push 20 keys, i only group with dh tank/boom/mage/hunter/ for the other slots

thats where the meta matters

[stoic needle]

It matters everywhere

Because it shapes the way the community acts

[dark vigil]

@candid quarry id wait til closer to patch

[stoic needle]

Like, mechanically, yes, it doesn't matter in 15s

But you can't get invited to 15s unless you play a meta class

[vestal wren]

everyone wants the "best possible" experience for themself, so ofc they will only pick the "op specs"

[fleet whale]

the 10% energy regen was so low impact

[primal gazelle]

rogues will always have a good reputation for keys since we were bis for 3-4 years

[vestal wren]

its a no brainer to decide between a assassinaiton rogue and a fire mage

[fleet whale]

that i bet a vast majority of players even felt it

[primal gazelle]

but pushing high keys next patch, rogues will be phased out unless there is an aoe buff

[vestal wren]

who knows

[fleet whale]

plus VM is gonna grant 1 more energy anyway, so it will balance out

[vestal wren]

all top key runners bring outlaw

even tho it might not be the most ideal spec

[primal gazelle]

assa is trash in keys because your crit is so low

you FOK 5 targets for 1 CP its sad

[dark vigil]

i dont even know how fok works for cp

sometimes i get 1 cp sometimes i get a lto

[primal gazelle]

read seal fate

[dull cloak]

1 more energy on vm is actually uuuuuge

[stoic needle]

Its based on how many crits you do

[dark vigil]

oh

thats cring

[vestal wren]

at this high level, a lot of other factors are also essntial and as long as outlaw is compatitive it can remain present

[dark vigil]

i just spam it when theres more than 3 targets

[stoic needle]

Sin actually does fine in keys

But the problem is getting an invite in the first place

[dark vigil]

no reason to bring a sin when outlaw is appyling tho

[primal gazelle]

depends on your definition of fine

[stoic needle]

Yeah but you can't tell spec in the group finder

[primal gazelle]

middle of the pack can be fine

[dull cloak]

ez u just secretly switch to sin when key starts countdown

[stoic needle]

I keep up with your average Joe blow boomkin and fire mage in every pug I do

[dark vigil]

[vestal wren]

the solution to bad pug experience is to create groups yourself

[stoic needle]

That's not really a solution

[strange python]

people just won't apply to your group

[stoic needle]

Why would people join a group with 1 dps in it when they can join the one where half the spots are filled

[vestal wren]

there isn't a lot you can do, running with guild is also possible

[stoic needle]

Yeah well my guild disbanded so

I'm trying to find a m+ group but there isn't a huge community for it

And every week I fall farther behind the rio curve

[vestal wren]

as long as you depend on others to invite you to a group, you need to bring something that makes you more appealing

[stoic needle]

It's not a good situation any way you look at it

[strange python]

get that gold proving grounds bro....

[vestal wren]

and this is either playing a class that is op
or having a super high r.io

[dark vigil]

i think the best idea probably is to join pug raid groups and then do big dam and ask if people wanna do keys or soemthing

[vestal wren]

the later however possibly means you don't rly care about pugs

[dark vigil]

or get 228 ilvl as a sin

[stoic needle]

Trying but my vault keeps giving me garbage

[dark vigil]

[dull cloak]

GL rnging haste crit gear from vault

[stoic needle]

I would love to get a consistent m+ group and never touch the group finder again

Verse mastery belt this week

[strange python]

the most people I've ever met in wow are pug raid leaders

7/10 H players "AOTC Only first mistake = kick no shitters"

[dark vigil]

i still remember

doing heroic sludge

joining a pug. raid leader was a warrior. very arrogant

he charged the boss when him and i were chained

obviously killing us both

told everyone to wipe it and he kicked me

[stoic needle]

I was pugging h sludge and the raid leader yelled at everyone to not break chains and then immediately stood in the falling rock and broke the chain when he roared afterwards

[strange python]

yea theres a reason those players usually arent in guilds

lol

[stoic needle]

I never want to pug sludgefist again

[dark vigil]

i think now its not as bad

since its been out for awhile

[stoic needle]

This was only a couple weeks ago

[dark vigil]

hell i remember early on even pugging heroic huntsman was a pain now you can close ur eyes

[strange python]

well it was also harder to pick and choose who knew what they were doing from group finder

early on

now you can just grab people that have multiple kills on it and know wont dot the shades

[dark vigil]

dumbass question thats actually on topic of sin discussion

if doomblade is competitive for single target dps

does that maim,mangle potency work with it

i'd assume not

[stoic needle]

It does I'm pretty sure

[dark vigil]

[stoic needle]

I can test it later today

It's still probably shit bc mutilate does such little damage

[dark vigil]

is doomblade's dmg more so from the second part then?

[stoic needle]

Yeah

[dark vigil]

yike

[stoic needle]

The dot is basically nothing

[dark vigil]

well itll be 50% stronger now

but yea

[stoic needle]

Coz it's only calculated from your mainhand

[dark vigil]

[stoic needle]

It makes no fucking sense

[primal zinc]

hey guys

[dark vigil]

should i rerollsin

[primal zinc]

is that new change good buff for us assassins? or is it a nurf?

[dark vigil]

netural for single target buff for aoe

and QoL of not having to refresh slice and dice

which could in turn be like a 1% or 2% dmg increase

[stoic needle]

More envenom buff uptime

[dim mirage]

cttc is game changer

[stoic needle]

[oblique flare]

honestly, the buffs are pretty good tbh

[dim mirage]

back to assassin

[stoic needle]

I wouldn't exactly call it a game changer but I'm happy to see more buffs period

Poor sub though

[primal zinc]

so taht means elaborate planing instad of blindside?

[dark vigil]

elaborate planning is aoe

blindside is st

[stoic needle]

Not really because of this buff, but eventually we will use ep on ST

[primal zinc]

EP for st i mean

[stoic needle]

After we ||scale||

[dark vigil]

he

said

the thing

[stoic needle]

[dark vigil]

gun him down boys

[dim mirage]

blindside proc should be baseline. change my mind

[stoic needle]

There's a certain amount of haste where blindside becomes less useful

I won't change your mind because I agree

[dark vigil]

blindside and poisonbomb being baseline would be enough to bring us to a good spec

[oblique flare]

i mean, with alacrity and niya herbs, we get 15% which is huge

[dark vigil]

running niya herbs

[oblique flare]

bruh, do not underestimate it

[stoic needle]

New venthyr flag is ~20+ haste

[oblique flare]

rolling venthyr though

[dark vigil]

yeah maybe with vigor, venthyr flag, alacrity

[stoic needle]

I'm interested to sim these new things when simc is updated

[dark vigil]

ep might be better

[stoic needle]

Imagine not running venthyr

Aesthetic bis

[dark vigil]

venthyr after this patch will be bis

[oblique flare]

geh vampires

[dark vigil]

im not gonna run it til then tho

[stoic needle]

The blade cape

[oblique flare]

cape is the only good think

but man, my anima reservoir and covenant upgrades and adventure troops

[dim mirage]

in my headcannon garrote should be blindside proc/stealth only but allow stacking garrote bleed + dmaage hit. but that also invovles like.. a COMPLETE rework. so it's just useless daydreaming anyway

[oblique flare]

all back to 0

[dark vigil]

yeah

[oblique flare]

back to renown grind too

[dark vigil]

but worth

i wouldnt do it yet

2-3 more weeks of ptr builds

most likely

[dim mirage]

im staying night fae

[stoic needle]

It's gonna be hard to give up first strike

[oblique flare]

gonna stay fae for pvp too

[stoic needle]

But I miss my gargoyle gf Chelra

[dark vigil]

venthyr flag alone will actualyl do decent dmg now

might not be too bad for pvp

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[oblique flare]

as long as the dps % are within 2% i don't really care

hm

[stoic needle]

If you spend 18 cp in 12s it's equal damage to sepsis

Might be some decent burst as sub

How many evis do you get in a dance nowadays?

[oblique flare]

like 4 in pve

pvp if you have to keep up the cs control, 2, maybe 3

[stoic needle]

You'd probably need the conduit then

[dark vigil]

al;so the haste

[oblique flare]

alone for the fact that sepsis is passive + gives you 12% health and 350 mastery feels better tbf

and haste on sub in pvp, eh

[stoic needle]

Mastery is pretty nice for sub

But it's meh for sin

Nf still probably bis for sub I guess

[oblique flare]

sepsis hits good with shiv though

and even if mastery is not a good stat for assa, it helps with envenoms and passive bleed and poisond damage

but yeah, venthyr haste is better

[stoic needle]

Sin's energy regen needs all the help it can get so I think venthyr will be more impactful overall

[dark vigil]

yes

[stoic needle]

Sepsis shiv is pretty massive though

Fucking 20k sepsis

[dark vigil]

flag will prob be better overall in pve

[oblique flare]

also, on the other hand, once we get better gear, is there not a value where haste won't matter anymore?

[dark vigil]

no

[stoic needle]

No

Haste gives your dots more ticks

[dark vigil]

haste affects energy regen, and more ticks for poisons and bleeds

[tough trail]

as nightfae, which tree is best for m+?

[lyric badger]

when do you use slice and dice?

[dark vigil]

korayn

[oblique flare]

no soft cap? Thought since the dr starts at 30% we'd stop at some point, but fair enough

[dark vigil]

slice and dice always

its a buff

i mean yes

there is weightings

[balmy condor]

korayn first strike and niya herbs are both very good

[stoic needle]

Even with the Dr youd still stack haste

[lyric badger]

we didnt have slice in bfa did we? cant remember

[balmy condor]

we did not

[oblique flare]

i mean yeah, but i was thinking of not really needing venthyr at that point anymore, but fair enough

[dark vigil]

once we can get enough crit to make our cp more reliable

[balmy condor]

that doesn't DR

[dark vigil]

well enough crit while having haste too

[balmy condor]

if anything, venthyr would get stronger

[lyric badger]

ok and what about shiv?

[balmy condor]

shiv was toxic blade

[lyric badger]

ah! I liked that move back in legion

[stoic needle]

% haste from buffs is different from +haste rating on gear

% haste doesn't DR

So it gets worth more as time goes on because it's a static value

Whereas you need more and more haste rating to get the same % because of dr

[oblique flare]

i see

fuuuuuuu, i don't want to swap

[stoic needle]

That's why alacrity is perma bis

[balmy condor]

swap to what?

[oblique flare]

i hate grinding

venthyr, if the change mind be better than nf

[balmy condor]

if you hate grinding, why are you playing an MMO out of all things

lmao

[stoic needle]

I mean you don't have to swap, night fae still has superior soulbinds which are arguably bigger than the covenant ability

[oblique flare]

bruh, no need to be exact

[stoic needle]

You don't really have to grind renown tbh just play the game and it gives it to you

[fleet whale]

RPGs in general usually involve some sort of grinding, even if just minimal

[oblique flare]

yeah but my troops, covenant upgrades, anima reservoir

[stoic needle]

All are irrelevant

[oblique flare]

no >:c

[fleet whale]

mission table you can pretty much ignore completely

[balmy condor]

I haven't done a world quest in over a month

[fleet whale]

and wont' lose out on anything meaningful

[balmy condor]

[dull cloak]

Nf soulbinds def look stronger but who knows

[oblique flare]

adventure board is easy gold though

[lyric badger]

do the stat weights change for pvp vs pve as assa?

[oblique flare]

plus growing up the souls that give you those bags

[strange python]

yea and with the exception of weekly renown anima grinding is only for 100% optional covenant sanctum content that has no effect on instanced content

[balmy condor]

less haste, more vers/mast

[dull cloak]

I bet most of you dont have the Fun Guy title

[raw bloom]

I do 🙂

[strange python]

I got it last week

never doing those dailies again

and I'm never buying the transmog set you unlock from having marasmius exalted either

because it costs fucking 30k anima

[stoic needle]

And they're ugly as shit

Why spend 30k anima on ugly shit

[strange python]

yeah they look like the regular night fae weapon mogs

but slightly lighter shade of blue

whats the point

[lyric badger]

oof

lol

[primal gazelle]

pretty ugly

[lyric badger]

😦

i know right

[stoic needle]

I'm stuck having 18-22% of every stat it's really annoying

I wish I could get rid of all of my mastery

[lyric badger]

do you just do m+ for gear?

[oblique flare]

[stoic needle]

I have a mix of m+ and pvp gear

28% vers wtf lmao

[lyric badger]

hmm the only pvp ive been doing atm is non rated stuff

[balmy condor]

any haste/vers pvpers in chat?

[oblique flare]

got 30% vers on my sub gear

[stoic needle]

Whispyr you don't pvp

[oblique flare]

yesterday exalted

[wide ridge]

should we save 5k soul ash for 235ilvl doomblade leggo you guys think?

[ocean bear]

I'm 28 vers and like 400+ haste pvp

Not by choice

[stoic needle]

You probably won't use it over zoldyck

But it could be fun

[ocean bear]

28%

[stoic needle]

I'll probably upgrade my lvl 2

like... bruh

my stats make no sense

[balmy condor]

why not

[stoic needle]

they don't match my feelcraft

i want more haste, less mastery, more crit

[balmy condor]

sorry to hear that

[timber gale]

hey folks, I main frost DK & got KSM recently and when shopping around for an alt really fell in love with assassination rogue. I’ve been lurking a lot here while gearing up and practicing and I wanted to ask a few questions for clarification that haven’t exactly clicked with me (am venthyr rn, excited for changes)

1. when is the optimal time to use shiv? is it just after I’ve used SnD/Rupture and am preparing to slam envenoms? It’s still hard for me to understand when/how nature dmg is applied and how frequently

[balmy condor]

on cooldown

[timber gale]

thank you! yeah I’ve taken to sort of just... jamming it but I can probably start using it sooner

[lyric badger]

@timber gale dk main too 🙂

[balmy condor]

yeh, usually missed casts are worse than "bad" casts

I saw a log once where they only used it when they could guarantee 3 envenoms in the window

and it cost them like 4 casts over 5 minutes

which is kinda ridiculous

[ocean bear]

Is it easy to hit overall 6k+ damage in M+ assassinatin? Or is it not there yet?

[balmy condor]

depends on what your definition of "easy" is

[iron orchid]

Not "easy"

[balmy condor]

it's very doable

[stoic needle]

yeah i wouldnt call it easy

[ocean bear]

Like playing 90 percent parse

Level

[timber gale]

My other question was - outside of Vendetta, the spec is basically just 1) keep snd 2) keep rupture/garrote 3) spam envenom, yeah? It seems like outside of maintenance a lot of the ability to push harder is like, using Vendetta optimally and figuring out when to hit Vanish for MA reset (which I’m still not great at)

[stoic needle]

you just have to have good uptime on all of your dots and play a dungeon that's favorable for big aoe

[balmy condor]

sure, if that means that you're a good player, then 6k is doable

[balmy condor]

correct

shiv isn't really a giga burst window either

[timber gale]

Maybe I should try and time Vanish when a rupture is expiring to Ambush + Crit rupture?

[balmy condor]

we don't ambush from stealth

you vendetta on cd pretty much

and just continue as normal

[timber gale]

Ok! I didn’t want it to come off as like weirdly demeaning to sin players, I’ve just never played a class without a series of rotating medium length CDs so I was curious what if anything I was missing

Okay, so garrote from stealth then?

[balmy condor]

only if you're using subt

sin is a very simple spec

and it's slow

the "difficulty" could come from multi-dotting in aoe situations

but in general, it's incredibly straight forward

and there's not a ton of room to optimize

[timber gale]

Yeah it’s very chill once you get over the initial hump of ‘there’s a million things to start rolling’

And then it’s just maintaining them

So sorry - to make sure I’ve got it, what are you usually doing out of stealth then?

[balmy condor]

with subt you would garrote once, and then nothing special

[ocean bear]

Don't overlap envenom, don't cap energy

[balmy condor]

with MA you just env/mut/env

[ocean bear]

So it's a weird float

[fleet anchor]

Just spam FoK and CT because Mages are doing all the DPS anyway, ez

[timber gale]

Oh you mean after Vanish - I was like how are you envenoming on opener

[balmy condor]

on opener would be mut snd mut

[foggy socket]

fuck snd. outlaw can take that shit back

[timber gale]

Yeah OK! I’ve been using he venthyr ability right before snd to get the combo point generating started

Was curious if there was any thought to stuff like Marked for Death with the new venthyr changes to just John madden combo points in that small window

But this all makes sense, thanks

[balmy condor]

rogue covenant abilities aren't impactful enough to warrant such things :P

[near lark]

!rotation

[balmy condor]

!guide is what you're looking for

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
RH: https://www.ravenholdt.net/guides/assassination-rogue-guide-shadowlands-raid-dps/
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide

[near lark]

Thankk you

[timber gale]

maybe not! the immediate haste granted tho excited me, esp the super buffed conduit

[near lark]

❤️

[bleak sedge]

do i use garrote only on main target or do i use it on cd ?ive read both in different guides now

[timber gale]

But thanks for answering questions, I tried to not be too redundant

[near lark]

Practicing Assassination opener and stuff, so danke

[balmy condor]

you garrote anything that doesn't have garrote on it

[balmy condor]

gerne

[bleak sedge]

alrigth 😄

[foggy socket]

no more than 3 things though right? or am i imagining this?

[bleak sedge]

wohead states use it on cd if there are targets without

[balmy condor]

I don't see why you would stop at 3

[viral meadow]

You can use it on anything that will

a) live long enough

b) won’t stop you via cool down on applying to a priority target

[stoic needle]

after the subterfuge window you can only really keep up 3 garottes because of the cd

[balmy condor]

our opener in m+ actually just straight up garrotes 4 times

but yeh

after subterfuge, you can't have more than 3

[snow arch]

Subterfuge garrotes are so nice — big chunk of our keys damage

[fleet anchor]

When things are more solid we will look at APL changes but for now we're kinda just waiting for the ability to actually work 😛

[dark vigil]

damn

@balmy condor at this poitn probably make !rotation link to the same shit tbh

[balmy condor]

eh, seems unnecessary imo

[dark vigil]

you'd think

[balmy condor]

we don't see that many people confused about it

[timber gale]

so i just re-read the RH guide; you're basically using vanish + vendetta with MA like, as soon as you've applied both DoTs and before you start envenoming?

i guess it's just to get it on CD asap, and using it before envenom has the highest benefits?

[balmy condor]

envenom is just a cp dump

there's nothing really to play around with it

so the general gameplan is rupture/garrote/slice

and then cooldowns and envenom

[timber gale]

kk, that tracks

and the reasoning to wait for specific timers to reapply dots is bc of the tick rate, yeah?

like we don't wanna garrote if it's about to do dmg, but in a window where it would expire it's not a huge loss to reapply in that last few s

[fleet anchor]

No

Tick rate isn't interrupted by refreshing

[balmy condor]

#assassination message

this might help

[timber gale]

ok! I'd read the pandemic thing before but it didn't click with me then when I was learning the spec

[strange python]

Do you use a separate button for Ambush and Mutilate with Blindside? Or is there a way to macro it?

[late veldt]

!blindside

[prisma monolith]

Macroing Ambush to Mutilate only works with the use of a addon.
It comes with the downside that it often requires multiple key presss.
Suggested addon to use(Gnome Sequencer):http://tiny.cc/mxb6tz
Showcase Video: #assassination message

[stoic needle]

It's better to have it on a separate bind

[balmy condor]

^

[strange python]

That works. Thank you much for info.

[slender peak]

its better but it feels aweful in the rotation

[balmy condor]

blindside feels great what

[slender peak]

lul

[dark vigil]

yeah blindside feels good

free no energy combo point

2 combo poitns minimum 3 if u crit

[slender peak]

in terms of boost to the rotation sure. But in terms of hitting the buttons in your rotation I hate it

[fleet whale]

a free proc on a relatively slow paced spec

is a good thing imo

[dark vigil]

keep it on a random button that u sometimes press

i might have weird bindings but

[fleet whale]

i have ambush on C personally

[dark vigil]

i have mutliate on 1, shiv on 2, ambush on 3

garrote on q, rupture on shift q

e envenom

[balmy condor]

that's a very uncommon opinion tbh

[dark vigil]

you dont press 2 or 3 that much so its not that bad

[slender peak]

guess after playing assasination for so many years fitting it into my keybinds just feels off for me

[sullen saffron]

Doomblade going to be the best legendary after the buffs? (on single target)

[dark vigil]

nah

[slow marsh]

No

[fleet whale]

nah

[balmy condor]

it's just like dispatch

[fleet whale]

you will never give up zold

[sour hollow]

any thoughts on Bloodfang?

[dark vigil]

needs big buff

[slow marsh]

It's not zold

[balmy condor]

bloodfang is aoe doomblade, but without the damage, and like others have said

it's not zold

XD

[low girder]

Well it has the dmg rn

[sullen saffron]

doomblade is nice cuz the extra bleed gives extra energy regen if im right, some of the top logs play doomblade now it will be 15%stronger

[fleet whale]

bloodfang might be good in torghast for self healing

[low girder]

But that's a bug

[balmy condor]

true

[fleet whale]

but that's it, bloodfang is just an all around leggo

[sour hollow]

yeah

[dark vigil]

top logs beeing doomblade..?

[fleet whale]

useful in all content, but not the best in anything

some top logs use MA

[dark vigil]

yea

[fleet whale]

doesn't mean it's the best lol

[balmy condor]

well yeah

but you can make clickbait like

[dark vigil]

zold and dashing scoundrel are theoretically best for st but zold is just really good overall

and good in all content

[balmy condor]

TOP RANK ONE SIN ROGUE LEGENDARY OP DAMAGE HUGE BURST TOP METERS

[slow marsh]

Doomblade technically will be 50% stronger than now but it still won't beat having execute

[dark vigil]

no not 50% better cause

its 2 parts

[uneven plume]

Guys how can I get back to my 90% haste bleed build from BFA s4 😩

[dark vigil]

tyhe bleed wasnt as big as the envenom dmg iirc

[uneven plume]

Or similar

[slow marsh]

Ah yes true

[fleet whale]

bleed build is dead in SL

it's not gonna happen

[safe pendant]

Does zold get much value in M+ since things die pretty quickly in execute phase?

[uneven plume]

It was sooo good

[slow marsh]

The bleed is 50

[uneven plume]

Lmaooo

[dark vigil]

so its a bit more oomph but not 50% buff straight up

[balmy condor]

play outlaw if you want to ook ook spam buttons

[slow marsh]

But regardless not zold

[fleet whale]

and sin isn't designed to be a spammy spec

[slow marsh]

If you aren't playing zold play outlaw

[fleet whale]

NYA was an extreme outlier

[uneven plume]

I do play outlaw Lmaoo I just like to try new things

[balmy condor]

30% of health is 30% of health

[dark vigil]

zold is very good in m+

[uneven plume]

I heard sin pumps in m+

[fleet whale]

unless if there is another fight like Odyn in legion

[dark vigil]

it can pump

but it aint outlaw

[fleet whale]

in that case Zold would be bad lol

[balmy condor]

it's like sub atm

[slow marsh]

SMASHING M+ PUGS AS ASSASINATION AFTER BUFF

[uneven plume]

Sub also pumps in M+ big pulls

Finality plus black powder spam is fun

[safe pendant]

general Kaal in sanguine

[dark vigil]

yeah zold is useless for one specific part

[balmy condor]

thats 1 boss

in 1 dungeon

[sullen saffron]

guess i will craft zold next week

[dark vigil]

but helps for the rest

[tender fjord]

2 lines cast sequence macro 😂

[fleet whale]

black powder is like empty calories in terms of dps lol

[dark vigil]

look at this guy

he has a gf and plays sin

what a chad

[safe pendant]

That's the meme

[short hamlet]

I've never felt so seen.

[dark vigil]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/100633018493837312/811696131129212928/quinWMonkaS.gif

[short hamlet]

I want more patch notes

Just for the hype train

[balmy condor]

I don't

more patch notes always invites the full pepega

[safe pendant]

New 10 man raid Pog

[short hamlet]

That's why I want it Whispyr

The excitement

[sullen saffron]

slice buff on assa will be enough to be not trash at least? fav spec in pve but hate to be weak af

[balmy condor]

the dps gain from the sin changes in total

is like

marginal

there hasn't been any significant buff for any rogue spec

[sullen saffron]

slice will be kinda perma right?

[balmy condor]

yeh

[sullen saffron]

i think thats huge

more envenom

more natural dmg

[balmy condor]

I mean, if you hate hitting slice, it's a huge change to your gameplay

but in terms of damage

it's really not

[slow marsh]

It's 5 more envenoms

Not huge

[balmy condor]

yeh

its like 5-6 more

[slow marsh]

It's huge for people who can't manage buffs

[sullen saffron]

i hated to press slice so i take it 😄

[safe pendant]

Envenom feels a lot better to press though. Huge mental buff

[slow marsh]

Well yeah we will all take whatever we get lol but it's not huge

Another 5% aura and now we can talk huge

[sullen saffron]

fck the %buff

its so "unfun"

do some creative buffs

[slow marsh]

Sure

[gloomy knoll]

being able to play the game is fun

i'd take a 5% buff over being dogshit for an entire xpac

[slow marsh]

Rogues and creative don't belong in the same sentence according to blizzard

[sullen saffron]

i play assa cuz i love it, assa was beast the whole bfa so i take if we are shit now

[slow marsh]

We are arguably better than sub now we aren't shit anymore

Beast mastery is shit

[gloomy knoll]

false

[slow marsh]

And arcane

[gloomy knoll]

worse than sub slightly still

and outlaw

[slow marsh]

We are 100 dps behind sub but we have an execute

Which for prog is much better

[sullen saffron]

thats true

for progress assa is good

[gloomy knoll]

an execute with bad dps is still bad dps

you could do do 99% more damage in execute but still do 5 dps overall

[slow marsh]

Also it's much easier to do consistently well as sin vs sub

[sullen saffron]

progress boss not about dps, maybe only on sludge

[gloomy knoll]

playing properly is in no way a metric for viability

[slow marsh]

It's not bad dps though

But that's ok

[gloomy knoll]

it is though

sub is pretty meh dps

and sin is worse than sub

[royal lantern]

both specs suck equaly

[stoic needle]

doomblade doesn't give extra energy

[gloomy knoll]

nah sin sucks a little more

but rogue in general sucks

xD

[stoic needle]

sub is kill, sin is going to the moon

[slow marsh]

To the moon 🚀🚀🚀🚀🚀

[sullen saffron]

true, i tought u get energy for each bleed not just garrote rupture

[stoic needle]

it should be but alas

[slow marsh]

I think it's just bleeding in general

[stoic needle]

they fear our power

[slow marsh]

One buff

[stoic needle]

no it's specifically only garotte rupture and internal bleeding

[sullen saffron]

yes

[slow marsh]

Okkk

[safe pendant]

Deadly poison gives energy too doesn't it?

[stoic needle]

no its the other way around

they have to be poisoned

[sullen saffron]

y

[stoic needle]

and then when bleeds tick you get the energy

[slow marsh]

So the buff to venomous will be better than the current 10% at how many targets bleeding? Or will it not matter

[fleet whale]

it's dps neutral

on one target

[slow marsh]

Gains on 2?

[fleet whale]

prolly slightly yeah

[stoic needle]

its like .3% extra energy on 1 target and a buff on multi target

[fleet whale]

but note were damn near energy capped in multi target anyway

[slow marsh]

Yeah true

[fleet whale]

with higher haste though

the extra VM proc may yes scale a little better

don't hang me lol

[gray fjord]

⚠️ ⚠️ ⚠️ ⚠️ ⚠️

@balmy condor

[slow marsh]

You said the forbidden s word

[stoic needle]

[gray fjord]

He did the thing, get him!

[fleet whale]

i mean it's not a large difference anyway lol

[spice spire]

[stoic needle]

any buff is a good thing

[fleet whale]

but with higher haste, that will make the extra one energy from VM

"better"

[slow marsh]

Tbh at least we aren't demon hunter. I mained DH in bfa. Still level 50 rn

[fleet whale]

DH got one of their talents buffed massively

but no one still wants to play it lol

[primal zinc]

hey guys

[stoic needle]

? DH is gonna be better than us now lol

[slow marsh]

Yes but it's pushing then to momentum which everyone hates

[stoic needle]

they got an aoe buff and single target buff and they already do better aoe than us

[slow marsh]

And they aren't

[fleet whale]

i've been hanging out in FH and Unbound chaos still doesn't seem to be the play

even with the buff

[slow marsh]

I'd be surprised

[primal zinc]

1 question about the new buffs about ssins...will haste crit will be best for those changes?

[stoic needle]

the changes won't change our stat priorities, but haste crit is already solid

personally i prefer crit to vers because of seal fate but it's really just feelcraft

[sullen saffron]

can u tell me mastery why is so bad? when it makes our dots stroneg, which sounds good with zold lego imo

[slow marsh]

I have just shy of 600 haste and crit is simming higher for me on certain pieces now

[iron orchid]

dots ticking faster, abilities critting have more value than dots ticking harder

[fleet whale]

mastery isn't really "bad"

[slow marsh]

Most of our damage is white damage so mastery isn't super gains

[fleet whale]

actually melee isn't top anymore

DP is higher significantly for me

and envenom is creeping up

[primal zinc]

dp?

[fleet whale]

deadly poison

[iron orchid]

deadly poison

[primal zinc]

so are those changes...change the opener?

[slow marsh]

No

[primal zinc]

so mutilate>snd and the then bla bla bla

[slow marsh]

Yeah

[primal zinc]

only change is we wont get to refresh snd

[slow marsh]

Yep

[primal zinc]

more envonoms more dmg

[slow marsh]

slightly yes

[primal zinc]

better doushing scoundrels

xD

so im thinking

[balmy condor]

none of this changes anything

we'll use the same legendaries

[primal zinc]

is blindside will be better in ST or elaborate planning will be better for ST?

[balmy condor]

nothing changes

literally 0

[fleet whale]

maybe later down the line

EP might be slightly better, but blindside is really good for ST

[primal zinc]

so the only major change is that all ssins rogue will change from night fae to venthyr

xD

[balmy condor]

we don't know that

venthyr doesn't work on ptr, and we don't have sims

I would be very surprised if it causes that big of a shift though

[primal zinc]

too bad for you if that happens

[fleet whale]

it will likely make things more even

[primal zinc]

im allready venthyr since day 1

[balmy condor]

switching covenants takes like a week

[fleet whale]

from my own speculation, it wouldn't surprise me if new flag is the most powerful covenant ability

but venthyr lose out on soulbinds

[balmy condor]

I wouldn't be too mad either way

[fleet whale]

so I think all 4 end up being extremely even

[balmy condor]

yeh

I doubt venthyr is gonna be a must pick

[stoic needle]

It's going to be hard to beat the consistency of night fae

It just works

[primal zinc]

ye just like druids

[stoic needle]

Venthyr.. does not

[balmy condor]

is this another installment of oshosi complains about thrill seeker

[slow marsh]

I mean people are always looking for venthyr for M+ so it will for sure have a niche for those peeps

[primal zinc]

druids have that MUST pick night fae

[balmy condor]

?

druids don't have to pick night fae at all

[fleet whale]

yeah that's a big advantage if you roll Necro or Venth rogue

since so many players are night fae these days

[slow marsh]

most are NF or Kyrian

for dps

So having Venthyr be in the running will be nice actually