doomblade is sustained damage, rogue can't survive trying to do sustained damage with doomblade in the current meta when paladins and warriors run around literally 2 shotting you
#assassination
stoic needle
slow marsh
Just less reliance on restealths as a whole and the gimmickyness of popping someone in a burst window with just MA
stoic needle
that's just the meta right now man
15% more bleed damage isn't going to change that
slow marsh
I understand that. But I doubt it will continue to be the meta
uneven summit
Cut to the Chase is gonna be amaaaazing tho
drowsy pond
it seems like it's going to be the meta for awhile
stoic needle
sure it's gonna change eventually but who knows when that will be
slow marsh
It's not really about the 15% bleed as well
stoic needle
i mean doomblade isn't really viable rn and after the buff it still won't be, that's my point
slow marsh
That's fine
drowsy pond
how are sims of MA vs. Zoldyack
stoic needle
zoldyck is better
spiral escarp
stoic needle
you're kinda inting if you don't run zoldyck in raid in my opinion the execute niche is the whole reason that sin is viable right now. but MA is fine until you craft zoldyck
fleet anchor
I mean just depends on the fight right?
Zoldyck is really only massively valuable on Sire, otherwise it's kinda just whatever
drowsy pond
execute damage is always nice
but i already have rank 4 ma and don't want to craft zoldyck lol
but they apparently sim close iirc
slow marsh
Zoldyck is the only reason to play sin. Otherwise play outlaw
fleet anchor
I mean sure, but for example it's probably not actually the best option on something like Sludgefist because the execute is of questionable value there when so much damage is pillars
slow marsh
Execute on last pillar in sludge is extremely good....as many times sludge is decided by a handful of remaining dps
After the pillar
The last pillar **
stoic needle
there's an argument that if your guild is doing progression and wiping on bosses in the last few % zoldyck is always useful regardless of what fight it is
and yeah, if you aren't bringing execute into the equation, why not just play outlaw?
stoic needle
but i already have rank 4 ma and don't want to craft zoldyck lol
there really isn't any good justification to not craft zoldyck tbh
slow marsh
Just craft rank 1 for now and save
drowsy pond
and i mostly play sub but have been fucking around with assass again
yeah i'll probably craft it and save
slow marsh
Sin already is barely 50-100 dps behind sub ST and that's not taking into account downtimes/mechanics and the execute factor
There's no real reason to play sub at this point unless you just really enjoy it and never have any issues hitting dance then getting a mechankc
Mechanic
fleet anchor
Fuu can maybe set up some more combos and sims tomorrow, but initial numbers looking something like this:
low girder
oh my that doomblade upgrade
sad about duskwalker's though, was hoping for more than that
strange python
Hmm I am reading the Venthyr Flagellation changes and I wonder if I should go Venthyr now? I am Necrolord because I like it. What do you guys think?
slow marsh
Wait
twilit python
venthyr soulbinds are trash tbh
slow marsh
Yepper
fleet anchor
I mean Duskwalkers doesn't really actually do that much
strange python
@twilit python okay
slow marsh
And Necro is likely to be the one to swap to after changes to sbs working with stuff
fleet anchor
In theory it should "scale" a little differently than the others
slow marsh
Though I doubt it'll be better than NF still
fleet anchor
In that eventually as our Energy generation goes up it will be stronger for CD alignment
But atm it's kinda whatever
low girder
yeah. what does that get vendetta to now?
slow marsh
1 to 1.5 mins
strange python
okay will stay Necrolord then, am still rocking the Necro transmog, it's so nice
sick scarab
Level 56: New Passive: Cut to the Chase – Envenom extends the duration of your Slice and Dice by up to 3 seconds per combo point spent.
i knew it
slow marsh
Imo the Necro mog was so ugly it kept me away from it initially lol. But I get the draw
strange python
yeah I didn't like the implementation of snd for assa too
stoic needle
doomblade stonks
slow marsh
It's nice but snd never feels clunky to me
twilit python
how will energy gen feel like now without the 10% energy on slice n dice but the buff to venemous wounds
worse, better or the same
stoic needle
its slightly better
drowsy pond
venthyr ability seems awkward to use tbh
stoic needle
?
slow marsh
Wait why do people keep saying that though
cunning surge
ST roughly the samne
2+ targets it's a net positive
slow marsh
The 10 % energy
stoic needle
that literally makes no sense lol
stoic needle
that's not true
valid ruin
Im venthyr now and tbh its not that bad if used right.
twilit python
well at least enough to be gcd locked pretty much
stoic needle
you don't get to infinite levels until you have 4-5 targets bleeding
cunning surge
That's just what I've read here, who knows how it'll be in Live if they change things up or w/e
stoic needle
venthyr is only better to use now i have no clue how you can say its awkward now
its just press button, spend cp, get haste buff
zero thought required
hollow robin
Are these sims with all the changes like cut to the chase, or just comparing the legendaries directly?
slow marsh
It includes cttc I believe cuz there's a passive 100 dps increase baseline
hollow robin
Kk
drowsy pond
yeah i hate how it doesn't reactivate at the end of the timer
u have to click again
not hard just slightly annoying
reef axle
Guess it’s too soon to compare it to subs baseline sim as will it put sub and outlaw down to take over for st spec
stoic needle
as it is now, in a vacuum not considering soulbinds i'd say the venthyr ability is the best
slow marsh
The real question is how many cps can you fit in 12 seconds
Sin already is better than sub ST
reef axle
But not to outlaws performance just yet.
shadow helm
doomblade gang
stoic needle
doomblade gang
squadddd
slow marsh
Nope outlaw will likely just be the king of this xpac unless they nerf it for some reason
stoic needle
i'm feeling really good about crafting lvl 2 doomblade a while ago lol
shadow helm
jk runecarving is fucking expensive
stoic needle
meh
shadow helm
plate and cloth have it easy
valid ruin
@stoic needle how is the fla dmg istself now on ptr? I mean live its just more of a tickle right. Its carried by the hastebuff
stoic needle
find a leatherworker
well on ptr its bugged
but you can look at the formula it's going to do decent damage now
fleet anchor
It's with CttC as well as the VW change as per the patch notes manually patched in (since it's not on PTR yet)
stoic needle
probably slightly under sepsis in terms of just raw damage
slow marsh
I mean the doomblade changes seem nice rn but 90 dps vs execute... I'll wait for more sims I think
valid ruin
@stoic needle ty for answer mate
shy dust
@fleet anchor do you happen to have sub sims 👀
shadow helm
when will i ever get a 226 dagger in the vault bros
stoic needle
for reference current sepsis does around 239% attack power damage over the full duration with the 2nd hit included. new flag you'll have to spend 18 combo points in 12 seconds to do the same amount of damage
shadow helm
got a 226 p0xstorm instead
drowsy pond
when will i get skulkers
shadow helm
why SKULKERS
reef axle
!guide
prisma monolithBOT
gentle gyro
Skulker works for me
reef axle
We don’t ambush outside proc windows right? Even with vanish?
nimble tartan
sin tier coming up 
fiery mauve
Why sin when you can pirate
strange python
sin tier coming up <:greyfoPog:734561986825814037>
poggers in the sin 
drowsy pond
fuck pirate
strange python
yeah I dont want to be a stinky pirate, they never shower
drowsy pond
sin > pirate
nimble tartan
any sin players here play with execute and how much do u rise in the meters
if my numbers dont go up high enough where im movin spots im out
fleet anchor
Actually Duskwalker's might be slightly better than the above screenshot
The much smaller threshold was causing it to get "behind" in terms of the reductions since it can reduce multiple seconds per casts depending
Still below Zoldyck though
But a lot closer
slow marsh
if my numbers dont go up high enough where im movin spots im out
Sim yourself with zold in a 1 min execute phase or something
tender fjord
any sin players here play with execute and how much do u rise in the meters
Made me rise to 3rd place on mythic huntsman yesterday. Although that fight has a lot of “execute range” phases tho
drowsy hollow
who wants to be a pirate?
tender fjord
We kinda thrive on that fight imo
drowsy hollow
I just kinda wish I could transmog daggers into swords
drowsy hollow
that said, venthyr leather with legion artifact is a killer look on void elves
slow marsh
Is whysp creeping or sleepy
Or another sim master
I want to know how ptr Necro sims with sbs working with mastery and zold vs NF
low girder
roughly equal to kyrian in the pins
fiery mauve
If only sbs worked with doom blade feelsbad
shadow helm
do you get permanent fleshcraft buffs with marileth now
slow marsh
Yeah I saw the pins I just wanted to know if that's Necro as a whole to kyrian or just sbs by itself
low girder
necro as a whole iirc, whether that was with zoldyck idk
drowsy hollow
well you get ultimate form which will be sick
but I want volatile solvent to work too
shadow helm
niya is just free mastery
drowsy hollow
Marileth in keys will be a constant 120 mastery in most places, and fairly often some agi too
slow marsh
Niya is also 5% haste pretty much all the time
drowsy hollow
There was some confusion on that
I've had some in here say for rogues it's capped around 60% uptime
fiery mauve
You’re not running burrs as niya?
drowsy hollow
but bears get much higher up time
slow marsh
In dungeons no
fiery mauve
Flagellation looks like so much fun now though
drowsy hollow
once they fix the bugs, absolutely
slow marsh
Actually let me see if I have logs from keys to compare
fiery mauve
Gonna get so much haste
charred raptor
With some of the buffs coming to Flagellation, how's Venthyr looking for Mut?
fiery mauve
Has potential
slow marsh
I mean flag is cool but it doesn't fix the randomness of nadja haste right?
charred raptor
Isn't it 2 per second?
slow marsh
I mean not totally random but you cqnt always bank in it not pricing during a mechanic
fiery mauve
So.. like a proc trinket
drowsy hollow
it procs even faster in m+
slow marsh
True
I've just been told from other venthyr that it's hard to time the haste buff from nad
fiery mauve
Every 80 seconds minimum
slow marsh
If it was a minute flat it would be so much better I feel. Why did it have to be 1.2
fiery mauve
Seems relatively good with duskwalker
slow marsh
That is very true actually
trim zinc
hehehe
slow marsh
Man I need a phial to pair with my stone legion trink
drowsy hollow
Marileth would still need a little love to pull ahead of heirmir's passive 3% agi and marrowed gemstone, but you can get double potency I suppose
trim zinc
now i just need to kill denathrius to get the trinket (niver killed it in hc yet (we r 9/10hc))
drowsy hollow
but any dungeon that's a good mix of humanoid and beasts means marileth with be 120 mastery and 2% agi
there's not enough giants that I can think of to make the 5% physical damage a thing
slow marsh
I mean that doesn't really matter anyways when you already get flat 30% redux with a 40% shield
drowsy hollow
no, it's 5% increased physical damage done
which given white hits are so big for us
and mutilate
slow marsh
Oh I see
drowsy hollow
even the freaking decaying flesh giants are undead
Halikas' shards are elemental
there is not a single giant in any dungeon haha
slow marsh
Rip
low girder
they could be, since they're affected by chaos brand. worth testing at least.
obv magic vs magic dmg is different
hollow zephyr
how can sin get so many buffs but still be shite
reef axle
how is sin on council fighT?
strange python
With sins new changes will it take sin to the top?
grave cove
Hmm don't like that we are losing the 10% energy regen on SnD
kind kiln
You get 1 more energy each time bleeds tick now instead tho
grave cove
Will that make up for it?
kind kiln
Pins says so
grave cove
Ah didn't see the new pin tx
Well then we are basically just getting auto refresh - don't think that is enough to push sin to the top of the meters.
Will def. make it feel more fluid though
lament dove
it will be yummy in m+
wanton comet
Is the below changes on PTR for rogue going to make a bit of difference for rogue?
placid cobalt
tbh is too little too late, we'll see sims but unless it actually outperforms outlaw/sub i doubt anyone will reroll
like when you buff a spec by almost 20% and still nobody plays it in progression content, you know you f***ed up pretty bad 😄
errant delta
Is snd still 70% for sin on ptr since thay took out snd rank 2?
light plume
like when you buff a spec by almost 20% and still nobody plays it in progression...
limit is considering assa now or so said max
outer cosmos
I play assassination main In pve, more raid content and compared to other people with same gear, we are not far behind. But In m+, I feel like I do zero dps compared to other classes. Any tips?
sharp mica
why in the world would they do that, execute?
low girder
it hasn't been 70% for a while now, it was 10% energy regen, and no that's gone now.
light plume
why in the world would they do that, execute?
yeah
placid cobalt
it makes no sense right now to take a rouge over a DK ever for top progression, but i was mostly referring to normal people. Assa still sims less than outlaw/sub, so why would i go and reroll weapon stats legendary etc. for something that ultimately does less dmg?
errant delta
Oh shit there you go and bossy i feel like id good m,+ damage
placid cobalt
execute could be a good niche on some fights, but thats literally all we bring at this point
light plume
the 2/3 target cleve is really strong still
placid cobalt
DK is a superior class right now, and so is monk, even tho u dont see as many monk cos they dont bring as much utility as DK
outer cosmos
Even in trash? I was really frustrated with my group yesterday (dh and shadow)
placid cobalt
but im curious to see if this changes result in actual buffs
sharp mica
well my sin venthyr alt is happy, old flagellation was a bitch to use
placid cobalt
in the unlikely event it turns out as say another 4-5% buff (which i doubt) it might finally be enough to justify playing sin
errant delta
I dunno i feel like ive done heaps better as sin since the buff subs just not my thing and i beat the sub rogue in most fights even though hes 225 and im 215
placid cobalt
i mean, sims are clear, sub still does more dmg, on a dummy
the fact you do more dmg as assa could be up to a huge variety of factors
errant delta
Yer but add mechanics and human error and sins way more forgiving
placid cobalt
precisely
outer cosmos
But in the current fights in m+, huge pulls of trash, I really feel to struggle a lot of dmg
placid cobalt
but still, keep in mind sub is not a well performing spec at this point
outer cosmos
Would it be better to go for outlaw just for m+?
placid cobalt
so even assuming assa outperforms it marginally, doesnt really make it good
errant delta
I pull about 10k burst and 6-7k sustain on aoe pulls
placid cobalt
what rogue needs to remain relevant is a substantial buff to assa, which actually makes it strong, cos if you go look at logs now, even tho very few people play it (for a reason) you see it's pretty much bottom tier
outer cosmos
I pull about 10k burst and 6-7k sustain on aoe pulls
Hm, could be a talent issue aswell on my site. You got 215 with which ilvl weapons?
errant delta
I will say outlaw is easier to do dam and do mechs like kick the right spell sin you target swap so much casts can be hard too kick
213 weps
somber nacelle
!stats
prisma monolithBOT
**Shadowlands: ** Haste > Versatility => Critical Strike => Mastery
errant delta
Multiple kicks and kidneys
burnt latch
If you play with a team u just call out I kick marker and focus target kidney, kick, gouge that
errant delta
Yer true i run 221223. I think thats right
outer cosmos
Yer true i run 221223. I think thats right
Do you do multidot on every target? 🧐
errant delta
Yer i found out though testing that rup ticks about the sam per tick so i dont matter how many cp you use as long as you can reapply so you get more foks and ct's
So fok rup tab fok rup tab ect
outer cosmos
Interesting, gonna test that later on. Maybe I was just a bit dumb xD
lament dove
yeah but every rupture costs the same energy
errant delta
At that many rups up though energy regens not a prob
With 3 garrots going to start you off too
outer cosmos
With 3 garrots going to start you off too
Of course!
merry fox
It would be so good if Blizz change Vendetta be buff on rogue instead of debuff on target. Would be so good in m+
errant delta
This so true i end up useing it on all prides if not with boss
somber hill
What is SBS?
merry fox
Necro ability
errant delta
Necro ability
errant delta
Thay all still like within 2 percent i belive
somber hill
gameplay wise geetting rid of the 2nd gcd is nice
cinder yoke
without insane gigabuffs all the rogue covenants will stay pretty close because they're already super low impact
prisma monolithBOT
honest needle
!guides
sharp mica
well venth sin vibes with me, happy to see that ability cleaner to use
bleak sun
Gonna lvlup my rogue too
pseudo hamlet
Cut to the Chase, at last! 😄
honest needle
do i always wanna do slice n dice at 5 combo points ?
also im nightfae but i use niya for outlaw st and koryan for outlaw m+ whats best person to use for assasination for ST for raid ?
autumn shoal
I don’t see the change about SBS on wowhead. Any link ?
low girder
It wasn't in this round of changes, it was the last one. And it wasn't in that datamine either, it was something Koji found
Along with the MA whitelist
I can't link posts from mobile I guess but it's in #tc-updates
honest needle
?
is it possible to make a garrote ambush macro so when blind side procs it switches to ambush or soemthing ?
im trying to make my bars have less buttons
low girder
!blindside
prisma monolithBOT
Macroing Ambush to Mutilate only works with the use of a addon.
It comes with the downside that it often requires multiple key presss.
Suggested addon to use(Gnome Sequencer):http://tiny.cc/mxb6tz
Showcase Video: #assassination message
low girder
There we go
low girder
I wouldn't recommend it but it's useable.
honest needle
Also question if i use niya for outlaw whats next best option for assasination or is niya best by far ?
I mean im struggling cause with slice n dice i keep having to put it on a different keybind because of what spec im playing and i like keybinds usually on the same button. Is there a trick or soemthing i can do with slice n dice to macro it to something ?
like slice n dice is 1 button 1 spec but a different on another. since we never had it before its hard to move it around because i been playing with my otherr keybinds for so long.
low girder
Niya is a decent bit better than korayn as 2nd best on ST due to burrs.
honest needle
so koryan is my 2nd best option ?
low girder
As for slice there isn't really a trick because it's an upkeep, only thing I can say is have a WA to remind you
Korayn would be 2nd best yeah
Niya is probably 100 dps or so ahead though
Depending on gear
honest needle
ya i remmber to use snd my issue is i have it keybound to 3 on 1 spec and something else on assasination. Its hard to make it the same kb because i been using the other spells there since legion
is it bad to keep it in different spots depending on spec
or should i keybind it the same on all specs and try to train myself. I been trying to but im messing up badly
low girder
Depends on how easily you get used to it. In most cases I have the same spells bound to the same bind in every spec. The only real difference is I'll move sap around sometimes.
honest needle
I was hoping to use dreamweaver for assasination because i dont use it for anyththing, but im guessing dreamweaver is way behind for ST for assasin.
raven locust
Dreamweaver isn't very good for PvE
low girder
Burrs is just really good on ST
honest needle
cause i usew koryan for m+ for outlaw, and niya for outlaw St. i was hoping to use soemthing else for assasination
low girder
Or any raid environment really
honest needle
i guess ill stop using niya for outlaw st and switch to assasination then
raven locust
You can use Korayn for Outlaw ST if you play Assass often
Korayn is also great for fights like Inverva, Sire etc
honest needle
Im gonna have real issues trying to learn and change my keybinds. this really sucks. I really wish they didnt bring back snd and also make it so we need ambush for assasination
Its really messing me up badly
low girder
Upside with the changes in most cases you'll only have to hit slice once on the pull
raven locust
Assass has the second lowest APM in the game so you have time to press your buttons
It has the same number of buttons as Outlaw, can just put them in the same place
honest needle
I find it very annoying having to use slice n dice. also currentkly shoudl i always reapply snd with 5 combo point or 4 or can i do it lower ?
raven locust
Shiv for Bladerush etc.
low girder
You have shiv as all 3 specs though 
raven locust
You always wanna use finishers at 4 if you're using Vigor for Assass
You aint gonna use Shiv on a boss as Sub or Outlaw ;p
low girder
Not that I'm gonna tell people how to keybind
honest needle
well i use shiv alot for enrage dispells
for outlaw
so i do have it on another button
low girder
You shiv as sub if you're optimizing, it's a gain 😋
honest needle
but ya
raven locust
The easiest way to learn another spec Day is just put keybinds in the same place as their counterpart, Envenom where Eviscerate is, Mutilate where SS is
etc
Ambush is basically a proc so I put it here I have Pistol Shot
honest needle
ya i do all that my issue just being slice n dice i have it on different buttons because of soem spells. and have an issue with ambush because its on my stealth bar and i have it macroed to sinister strike for outlaw
and its hard to make it work forsin
only those 2 spells im struggling with
raven locust
I mean we dont have many buttons, how many keybinds are you use to having?
raven locust
Could just sit on a target dummy for 5 mins and get use to the rotation, or LFR too
honest needle
see how my snd is 3 for outlaw but i been using rupture for 3 for sin for 10 yrs
outlaw dont have rupture so i put snd there
but i use rupture for sin so now i cant use 3
bleak sedge
https://gyazo.com/c586e052fc38a3fc15ae3d46e51a1096
i cant tell you how much i hate this XD
raven locust
Assass has incredibly slow energy regen, are you finding your SnD and Ruptures falling off before you get enough CP for refreshes?
honest needle
i hate it as well i dont kno how to fix it. @bleak sedge
bleak sedge
get everything thats not a combat ability to action bars that you put to the side
raven locust
You have a lot of unnecessary stuff on your action bars, could legit delete that top block and move your buttons down to the main one
bleak sedge
flasks, oil, mounts, disentchant all to a sidebar
gimme a sec ill show you mine after i booted my pc
honest needle
my side bars are a shit show as well https://gyazo.com/e7245708a23090f9869d032f5af0ee48
raven locust
Im on my DK atm but this is my main buttons and I have flasks/food on a small side bar
You wanna minimize clutter so you have tons of space for mechanics to see
That big block above your bar eats up a lot of screen space
honest needle
but do u see what i mean by how i use 3 for snd for outlaw cause it dont have rupture, but my 3 on sin is rupture. should i just deal with it ? and keep snd on a different keybind ?
raven locust
If you're having trouble when you switch specs I would recommend putting SnD on 3 for Assass as well like Outlaw
knotty grove
Im on my DK atm but this is my main buttons and I have flasks/food on a small si...
kyrian phial on bars when playing necro 
raven locust
Move Rupture to where BtE is, you use them about the same
Thats sex change vial
Not kyrian
Same icon
raven locust
xd
honest needle
so your saying i should learn to take rupture off my 3 keybind after i been using it like that for several yrs.
raven locust
Blizzard is lazy
honest needle
thats prolly gonna be a super hard chage
raven locust
If you're comfortable being able to switch between SnD buttons on specs you dont need to
bleak sedge
this is what mine looks like and i keep the basic spell type for every class and specc
raven locust
Your UI is nearly identical to mine lol
bleak sedge
i mean its practical 😄
raven locust
I hate overly stylized UIs or tons of clutter
honest needle
whats c4 and c5 what buttons r those ?
bleak sedge
na c is controll
honest needle
i dont like my block in the middle for my keybinds either but im use to it i been using it like that for yrs now so its super hard to chage my buttons and where they are the layout
raven locust
Take a SS of your whole UI, curious how much space it takes up
knotty grove
u should honestly just find a new key for SnD for all specs, I wanted to do the same thing as you did, that is put SnD on my rupture button for outlaw, but in the end I realized it would be a bad idea
honest needle
my ui is scary but im use to it hard to chage when i try i mess up
knotty grove
instead I put BTE on my rupture button since it is a debuff that you need to keep on the target now
raven locust
Do you find your UI causing issues with visibility?
bleak sedge
i recommend puttign SnD on a control + smth button since you dont need to hit it that often
honest needle
bleak sedge
this is my assa compared to my sub
honest needle
@raven locust u see my top bar the 1 at the top i dont like it there but now im so use yo it
to
raven locust
Yea thats not a problem, I just thought it was a giant block lol
raven locust
Like Ashan said I also have SnD on the same button for every spec, just makes things easy when I swap specs
If you raid you could change keybinds on the last raidday of the week and spend a few days with Rupture on a diff keybind
bleak sedge
<@!163562771793838080> u see my top bar the 1 at the top i dont like it there bu...
you should do a complete rebind of your controlls and put stuff out of your mainbars thats not needed for combat. It doesnt take that long to get used to it tbh. I did it before Shadowlands and it took like 3 days until i got used to it
what helps a ton is putting the keybind into your weakauras
grizzled trail
My brain hurts. What was the difference between slice and dice rank 1 and 2 again?
raven locust
10% energy
grizzled trail
So rank 1 was ten and 2 was 20?
raven locust
No it was just 10% energy
bleak sedge
This is what helped be a ton. Putting keybinds into weakauras.
grizzled trail
Oh so it’s just back to what it was
raven locust
Yes
grizzled trail
Ok cool
grizzled trail
Yeh I seen
raven locust
They should have kept the energy and Venomous Wounds buff, Assass has HORRIBLE energy regen
bleak sedge
Get on the PRD wave boys
PRD?
raven locust
I never understand why people have two enemy health bars, having one on the right and middle is silly imo
stoic needle
Is the gif not showing
stoic needle
Custom weakaura replacing the blizzard personal resource display
bleak sedge
I mean like my trackers more centered so i dont miss anything while checking my trackers
raven locust
Elvui has the best combo points, on my rogue they go from Green, Yellow, Orange then Red
stoic needle
I wish there was a way to anchor elvui elements to the PRD
bleak sedge
Elvui has the best combo points, on my rogue they go from Green, Yellow, Orange ...
i wrote my cp weakaura myself and i thought about doing that. atm my 4th cp is yellow and my fifth is red
raven locust
I love the green to red color shift
Might change my Death Knight runes too but they're just blue atm
bleak sedge
Dammn im struggling between assa and sub so hard since expansion launch its actually annoying haha
raven locust
I gave up on Sub and went full Outlaw, I recently crafted the Zoldyck lego
bleak sedge
I dislike the outlaw theme so i stick with assa and sub
raven locust
I love Outlaws gameplay, the super fast APM is fun too
bleak sedge
they should buff venom rush so assa energy regen isnt that shit anymore
bleak sedge
In legion venom rush was meta i think and it felt amazing
raven locust
it worked differently in legion
bleak sedge
I guess ill wait for the assa changes and see how he feels after. Kinda dissapointed that sub doesnt get any changes. Were bottoming the warcraftlogs charts atm i think
knotty grove
because legion venom rush was affecting VW, not some stupid mutilate shit
raven locust
^
bleak sedge
Ah true
knotty grove
ever since they reworked that talent in BFA it's been dogshit
bleak sedge
I miss kingsbane
knotty grove
kingsbane was so good with TB for the last seconds of it
dmg was ramping up so nicely
bleak sedge
i also miss goremaw. Its actually so stupid that rogues didnt get to keep their artifact abilities
would be way better than the covenant shit we have atm
knotty grove
but honestly 8.3 assa with full expedients was super fun too
beating mage opener with vita proc on pull felt really good
bleak sedge
I miss antorus raid assa XD was busted as hell
raven locust
Yea outside the insane RNG on Poison Bomb Antorus Assass was actually a lot of fun
8.3 haste Assassination was also fun as hell
bleak sedge
I also wish lvl 50 talents were changed
raven locust
Legion Assassination was close to perfection
bleak sedge
most classes get gameplay defining shit in lvl 50 row and assa gets some weird rng shit that is useless as soon as the tank kites
raven locust
Yea idk why our 50 row has AoE garbage
Venthyr buff is a nice start but our Covenant abilitys are so bad
bleak sedge
for real. I mean crimson wouldnt be that bad if it was the best talent in all situations but poison bomb feels shit in all situations
raven locust
Crimson should be baseline like it use to years ago
knotty grove
CT 8.3 vibes?
raven locust
I already miss 8.3 Assass 😦 too bad the expansion was bad
knotty grove
felt nice to have 3 bleeds to keep
bleak sedge
would also buff exsanguinate
raven locust
Going from top 3 highest APM spec to Assassination being the second lowest at 42 buttons a minute is jarring
bleak sedge
for real XD assa is lower thana fucking unholy dk XD
raven locust
Assass has generally been the pooling-dumping spec but this energy starvation is unreal
topaz saffron
It's a crime CT isn't baseline 😭
azure bronze
would also buff exsanguinate
Exsang will probably stay useless unless they move alacrity to another row or make it baseline
raven locust
They did some huge legendary buffs, lets hope our Covenants and talents are next 🙂
bleak sedge
atleast they are willing to change skillsnow instead of mindlessly buffing auras
raven locust
Assassination has a 51% aura buff and it's still at the absolute bottom with Sub
vestal wren
legendary changes(ptr):
note: zoldyck is still overall the best choice
raven locust
knotty grove
we need to be insane boss dmg pumpers like assa always was otherwise we still can't compete with DKs for raid spots
vestal wren
keep in mind the linked legendary changes are without the class changes to assassination
azure bronze
It's still the start of the xpac, assa is generally one of the better scaling specs
grim hornet
the s word D:
bleak sedge
It's still the start of the xpac, assa is generally one of the better scaling sp...
meanwehile affli is op every single time XD
raven locust
Scaling isn't going to save the spec, secondary stats aren't as impactful as they use to be
knotty grove
isn't fire supposed to be scaling spec as well? 
vestal wren
It's still the start of the xpac, assa is generally one of the better scaling sp...
for rogue it is
bleak sedge
fire scales with enemy count 
vestal wren
i wouldn't make a statement about general scaling
stoic needle
Doomblade 📈
raven locust
Does Doomblade work with Serrated Bone Spike?
strange python
Where is the maw rattle buff
merry fox
Cut to the chase passive put scoundrel lego a little bit higher too
stoic needle
Does Doomblade work with Serrated Bone Spike?
No
bleak sedge
wont doomblade get even better since we get to cast enevenom more often after the changes?
regal iron
Where is the maw rattle buff
raven locust
Energy wont change much, Venomous got buffed but the 10% energy was lost
bleak sedge
Huh. Guess ill wait with crafting a new legy XD
raven locust
We still have a while till 9.0.5
bleak sedge
ye but im a lazy pos
bleak sedge
i havy zoldyk lvl 1. I wanted to craft Finality 4 but since i cant seem to decide for a specc ill just wait a little longer. Only doing nhc and hc anyways
oh and i have akaari lvl1
bleak sedge
still praying for buffs haha
raven locust
I wouldnt say that till after the patch is out but I wouldnt craft any Sub lego atm
knotty grove
sub just feels so bad to play as well
bleak sedge
i actually like subs gamplay atm
atleast in m+ it feels better than assa with black powder
stoic needle
Yeah well it's worse
raven locust
It's so on-rails of a rotation, no procs no thinking just Shadowstrike and Eviscerate spam 🤮
knotty grove
u get 2nd target on a fight and you are fucked
bleak sedge
u get 2nd target on a fight and you are fucked
true haha hunter and stone legion are a pain XD
stoic needle
With venthyr and cttc our aoe is gonna only get better
stoic needle
Maybe
Wait for the sims
The ability itself is good but the soulbinds are still kinda shit
Hoping they buff draven
knotty grove
cleave for assa is nice because it actually funnels our ST dmg, for sub it does nothing
bleak sedge
ah true i always forget soul binds lmao
gentle gyro
wouldn't nadja be ok with the haste proc?
stoic needle
And rework nadjia and theotar to be less rng
Nadjia is all fun and games until thrill seeker procs during an intermission
bleak sedge
problem is that the proc 90% of the time comes in non combat sitations and then its shit
stoic needle
Or at the end of a pack
gentle gyro
i guess
stoic needle
With the timer not being controllable that happens very frequently
Speaking from experience
bleak sedge
its just shit tbh especially in m+
stoic needle
Yeah theotar is better for m+
But good luck if your tank kites
I'm gonna post on the forums and beg for them to fix those traits
bleak sedge
which he does since every second week is necrotic XD
low girder
Also wanna add since flag isn't implemented yet in simc and is bugged to shit on ptr, sims might be a little bit
gentle gyro
short off topic, is crimson tempest far behind ahead poison bomb in aoe?
cause i can't seem to get use out of it
stoic needle
It's ahead
bleak sedge
CT is better in aoe
bleak sedge
How many targets though? i forgot
stoic needle
2
bleak sedge
thats ... 50% of the raidbosses lmao
gentle gyro
should i prio it over distributing ruptures?
bleak sedge
If doomblade gets meta maybe CT gets better in singe target situations?
counts as a bleed right?
gentle gyro
ye
stoic needle
Its not enough to make ct worth using on st
And you only use ct in raid when you have 100% uptime on 2+ targets
Which is none of the fights
bleak sedge
shit. I just hate poison bomb XD
stoic needle
Yeah agreed
bleak sedge
true
knotty grove
with current energy regen, before u applied all 3 bleeds counting with CT, u would probably have to refresh garrote
bleak sedge
Someone call blizzard XD
main forge
Many forum topics talking about how SnD was a bad decision to bring back makes me think they don't read the forums.
stoic needle
I dunno
gentle gyro
at least we dont have to manage that next patch
stoic needle
Why else would they add cttc
bleak sedge
i actualy dont hate snd that much
stoic needle
Because snd was arguably fine the way it is, cttc was added as a response to the whining
Me either
main forge
It isn't fine the way it is. It's a lackluster ability, which is why they removed it to begin with.
Would be nice if it at least gave a melee haste buff for the party or something too.
gentle gyro
i liked the way sin played during legion
stoic needle
They can't just get rid of it in the middle of the expansion
bleak sedge
legion sin was my fav until ow (started in WoD)
stoic needle
So they add cttc, premed and GM to make it an afterthought
gentle gyro
give me kingsbane back ty
bleak sedge
They can't just get rid of it in the middle of the expansion
They could between 2 big patches if they wanted
stoic needle
They'll remove it again in 10.0
main forge
But I am happy about the CttC addition, many of us called for it at the start of the patch, and I know there is one thread on the forums from 3 months ago talking about we need it in the game.
knotty grove
SnD is fine for sub and outlaw, for assa it is underwhelming cuz it gives us nothing, and we already have a lot of stuff to refresh anyway
bleak sedge
- Snd + Kingsbane = fun
stoic needle
I just don't think it's likely that they will undo the un-pruning that they made such a big deal about during the lead up to the expansion
bleak sedge
i meant atleast they make it easier for us now with the changes. They realize its not that cool for assa
stoic needle
Not so soon at least
gentle gyro
the "unpruning" failed hardcore for a majority of specs
they added back spells no one uses
heavy trout
unprune KB thanks
main forge
Like if it refreshed the duration of bleeds on targets, or did something more than what it does now.... it would have been good, but they literally gave us a finisher that did nothing interesting.
bleak sedge
unpruning basically only worked for classes with raid buffs XD
main forge
Throwing smokebomb in the pvp talents pisses me off
stoic needle
Why do sub and outlaw need to have poisons
main forge
I loved being able to smokebomb adds or stuff to me.
bleak sedge
a
trim zinc
Why do sub and outlaw need to have poisons
cuz they r rogues
main forge
Sub can run without poisons and you might not notice it.
bleak sedge
tbh i thing the poison doent fit outlaw at all.
stoic needle
"the assassination rogue coalition would like to propose a trade. Slice and dice for kingsbane"
bleak sedge
"the assassination rogue coalition would like to propose a trade. Slice and dice...
i mean lets be honest it would be way more fun to play
Kingsbane was amazing
main forge
3% damage on hungering for me in sub spec
bleak sedge
3% damage on hungering for me in sub spec
b-but the soothe with shiv?????
knotty grove
poisons are good for outlaw tho, we proc it a lot with so many AAs
bleak sedge
poisons are good for outlaw tho, we proc it a lot with so many AAs
yes but i dotn think it fits the theme haha
stoic needle
Sin should be the only spec with the soothe 
knotty grove
I mean rogues have always used poisons, it fits the class fantasy imo
lilac sparrow
anyone has ptr simc? sin will beat law?
main forge
It would be nice if our soothe wasn't part of our DPS rotation
stoic needle
Yeah
main forge
like that hurts when you shiv and then the mob enrages
bleak sedge
I mean rogues have always used poisons, it fits the class fantasy imo
but outlaw is a fricken prirate XD
trim zinc
its still a rogue why it doesnt fits the theme?? all rogues alwyas had poisons
main forge
Or it just have it be an autoproc deenrage when it hits.
Would at least give us the Unique utility that we don't have
knotty grove
pirates applying poisons to their weapons is dope af
bleak sedge
pirates applying poisons to their weapons is dope af
well maybe its just me then haha. But i dislike the pirate theme anyways
stoic needle
Pre-soothing would be cool
main forge
Outlaw getting poisons is no big deal, as an old combat dagger rogue, I loved running deadly and instant myself.
trim zinc
^
stoic needle
We should be able to have both crippling and numbing at the same time as sin
bleak sedge
Oh shit i forgot combat existed XD
main forge
What Sin should get is some unique poisons and additional poison effects.
bleak sedge
What Sin should get is some unique poisons and additional poison effects.
2 deadly posions
main forge
yeah two lethal poisons and a utility poison would be neat.
stoic needle
Whispyr had a cool idea for a poison with an aoe dmg proc
knotty grove
paralytic poison? 
stoic needle
I kinda don't like that you get instant and deadly poison at the same time
main forge
deadly + wound/instant/a new one that acts as a bleed or something and maybe another utility poison or two in Sin spec.
Well for Sin, deadly is basically DP and IP in the same boat.
stoic needle
Instant should be the same, for aoe situations, and deadly should be a stacking dot
For raids and single target
Just have instant apply a 'poisoned' effect for venomous wounds
knotty grove
that would actually make SnD viable
main forge
having a poison that gave us mystic touch or chaos brand of 5% damage to either physical or magic would be neat too
would allow us to have a raid utility.
bleak sedge
why the fck is fan of knives poision apply rng anyways
main forge
No monk? use the mystic touch poison, no DH? use the chaos brand one
bleak sedge
it feels so bad to use it and have it apply to 1 out of 4 targets only
knotty grove
just bring back expose armor 
trim zinc
no pls
bleak sedge
find weakness on ambush :3
main forge
... just don't make it cost combo points, take a GCD.... and last like 20 seconds
vestal wren
nobody noticed my typo in the pin yet
main forge
Expose armor would be fine, or could actually be a neat raid cooldown...
knotty grove
DUSTwalkers
main forge
Well you will be walking in the Dust of other classes by using it >_>
knotty grove
shame, I was hyped for more frequent vendettas
bleak sedge
Well you will be walking in the Dust of other classes by using it >_>
man.., i wanted to write that
rain peak
onyx wind
is duskwalkers buff really that small?
vestal wren
i will wait for my judgement to have a functional version and simc implementaion
main forge
is duskwalkers buff really that small?
Looks like the sim shows it as... a 35 dps increase
vestal wren
is duskwalkers buff really that small?
it seems so, unless i made a mistake in my spell data overrites
onyx wind
Really surprising
frozen jasper
Doomblade looking nice tho
onyx wind
I was looking forward to using it :(
bleak sedge
Doomblade looking nice tho
yess
main forge
It will get better with stat scaling troll emoji
bleak sedge
id love to have another legy than zoldyk. Being viable for only 30% of the fight feels like shit
knotty grove
the sims are also without assa changes so need to wait for final numbers I guess
main forge
If enough people die, that 30% is worth more.
onyx wind
Also this is so misleading XD
Why write the % increase instead of %-point to show the difference
bleak sedge
yes and if you cant make denathrius p1 you get cut from the raid because ur dmg is garbage XD
main forge
If you can't make Denathrius P1 because of damage, then that's a raid issue.
My group has 3 shadow priests though, and their damage is really trash on P1 tbh.
bleak sedge
yes probably XD but still i like having constant dps more than bursting the last 30%
bleak sedge
My group has 3 shadow priests though, and their damage is really trash on P1 tbh...
they dont play the dot spread talent?
main forge
The adds don't live long enough to be worthwhile.
hidden crypt
any chance venthyr is bis next tier and assa is viable? or is it still gonna be the same?
onyx wind
any chance venthyr is bis next tier and assa is viable? or is it still gonna be ...
There is a chance yes
bleak sedge
The adds don't live long enough to be worthwhile.
ah our afflis have the same problem XD
onyx wind
Depends mostly on the raid tho
vestal wren
Also this is so misleading XD
not nessecery, its possibly that the ptr is behind the internal build and that the notes are for a newer build
hidden crypt
was thinking of rerolling/alt rogue since you never know how they might destroy feral and the new rogue changes looked nice
main forge
with the Sin buffs... it is more than viable. I think I am going to switch back tbh.
bleak sedge
with the Sin buffs... it is more than viable. I think I am going to switch back ...
im thinking about it aswell. Nightfae feel shit on assa anyways
onyx wind
Also sin is huge on cleave
knotty grove
imagine not playing kyrian
main forge
Sub is falling hard, but I have grown to love it... First time I have ever played it in my entire 13 years of playing.
bleak sedge
imagine not playing kyrian <:kekw:610125925413289985>
welll kyrian feels shit on sub XD
onyx wind
You misspelled korayn :)
hidden crypt
i guess combat still gonna be bis for m+ anyway?
bleak sedge
In some dungeons atleast
this
knotty grove
I doubt it is with new MA + KS build
stoic needle
Sin is just better than sub in m+ so like
main forge
im thinking about it aswell. Nightfae feel shit on assa anyways
Actually I was just talking about the Sin buffs making the spec more viable. It has potential to overtake outlaw now I think... but as far as venthyr is concerned... IDK. I like night fae. didn't enjoy Kyrian or Venthyr...
stoic needle
I don't think it's gonna overtake outlaw tbh
bleak sedge
Actually I was just talking about the Sin buffs making the spec more viable. It ...
i hated venthyr because of the double cast. Since its instant now it might feel better
i wish i could test other covenant abilites before i swap. blizzard.
stoic needle
If I see a sin dslice sim that is over 7k I'll believe it but I highly doubt it
main forge
I honestly couldn't figure out what Venthyr or Kyrian abilities worked tbh. They didn't feel good to me. Sepsis was my 2nd choice, but went night fae for the content.
stoic needle
First strike is just so good right now
main forge
Necrolord was neat but the shield thing was so lackluster.
stoic needle
It's gonna be hard to give that up
bleak sedge
kyrian pissed me off on sub XD my shadow techniques ruined it so often it made me mad XD
stoic needle
But I miss my blade cape
main forge
and I cannot imagine living without soulshape now
stoic needle
Yeah soulshape is amazing
knotty grove
hammer of genesis? bron? hello?
bleak sedge
soulshape is busted af
knotty grove
bron is a fucking CHAD
stoic needle
Door is pretty shit in comparison
main forge
Nah, our sprint is busted is the issue.
onyx wind
Yea playing with soulshape on my alt mage makes me want to go NF on rogue
hidden crypt
man all dps playing night fae makes the game feel so boring, want to buy some necros and venthrys
main forge
we need a shorter sprint cooldown.
onyx wind
also hammer of genesis is absolute garbage
main forge
and Sin needs charges on shadowstep.
bleak sedge
man all dps playing night fae makes the game feel so boring, want to buy some n...
makes my pc lag tbh. fckin hunters XD
main forge
If you want to talk about the worst thing about Rogue covenant abilities..... None of them do anything bright and flashy and cool.... You can press them mid raid, and nobody even knows you are doing anything.
lament dove
that's rogue in a nutshell
hidden crypt
makes my pc lag tbh. fckin hunters XD
the ardenweald world boss week makes the area unplayable for like 5 days
onyx wind
Either way, venthyr/necro has bad conduits
knotty grove
If you want to talk about the worst thing about Rogue covenant abilities..... No...
ye, meanwhile convoke, wild spirits and shifting power define their specs
stoic needle
also hammer of genesis is absolute garbage
Yeah, no
onyx wind
So even if the ability itself gets buffed, it might not be better
bleak sedge
If you want to talk about the worst thing about Rogue covenant abilities..... No...
true. But thats better than throwing out an aoe shit where tanks run out anyways XD
fiery mauve
Nadija isn’t bad
stoic needle
Hammer is really good
main forge
Monk, DH, DK, Hunter.... oh gosh what class doesn't do flashy things and looks cool.
stoic needle
It's good for outlaw too
fiery mauve
Nadija isn’t bad for outlaw either
bleak sedge
warrior venthyr looks like nothing aswell
stoic needle
Wdym
onyx wind
Venthyr warr looks sick tho
knotty grove
condemn casually doing 80% of your damage
stoic needle
Condemn is 50% of their damage LMAO
onyx wind
the condemn animations are sick
main forge
Condemn in torghast is ABSOLUTELY crazy
fiery mauve
He’s talking about condemn animation
bleak sedge
im talking about animation ;D the ability is busted af
main forge
I watched a mob get smacked around like he owed the warrior weed money
maybe coke money... idk
like probably rent too
bleak sedge
all warriors are on coke
stoic needle
They do look cool but the thing is in raids only the absolute flashiest abilities stand out because of the visual clutter
bleak sedge
look at them jump 500 metres twice in a row before they run into another direction at 800 ,ph
knotty grove
I mean flashy animation is not always good, whenever I see ashen hollow getting popped I don't know if I should run or not
stoic needle
There's just so many particles flying around
bleak sedge
I mean flashy animation is not always good, whenever I see ashen hollow getting ...
i always think pride spawns lmao XD
main forge
Thats a whole other ballgame agreed. WTB ability to turn off other players shit.
stoic needle
I want my convoke the poisons kekw
Sadly the 'essential' spell effects setting is still pretty cluttered
onyx wind
Is doomblade gonna be better than dashing for pure ST after buffs?
stoic needle
Probably not
main forge
Trash pack before Xymox is always a fun with night fae hunter and monks....
don't stand on the blue seeds.... (tons of blue shit everywhere now)
bleak sedge
Trash pack before Xymox is always a fun with night fae hunter and monks....
i swear i get nuked by the little ardenwald seeds because i think its a fckin ability
stoic needle
Dashing got a boost from cttc as well
onyx wind
Good, dashing seems like more fun to play with
bleak sedge
what makes that shit worse is that the revive animation from NF looks like a seed aswell
main forge
yeah and some class... i think priest gets a blue seed placed at their feet that recharges them or something it looks like
stoic needle
I like doomblade a lot better than dashing but to each their own I guess
onyx wind
I didnt try either, but isnt playing with more energy more fun?
onyx wind
Isnt it only a 10% increase?
onyx wind
Does it work with its own bleed?
stoic needle
Yes
onyx wind
Weird
stoic needle
Why wouldn't it lol
main forge
My theory is... run whatever legendary you feel like... Because if you want to do damage, probably should pick another class >_>
knotty heron
So I am hearing that tiny toxic blade buff will be very big on pure single target
stoic needle
Sin forever
onyx wind
Cause most of assas bleed interacting stuff has only worked on rupture/garrote in the past
stoic needle
So I am hearing that tiny toxic blade buff will be very big on pure single targe...
Stop listening to whoever told you that because they're wrong
knotty heron
Really?
stoic needle
Yes
main forge
Look at the pin
stoic needle
Ttb will always be shit
main forge
its only a 0.8% increase from the current looks
knotty heron
That’s so little...
vestal wren
ttb isn't terrible
stoic needle
Ehh it kinda is
onyx wind
If duskwalker's patch became good i would roll assa instantly :(
vestal wren
its just not as good as spec specific ones
onyx wind
That stuff was so fun in legion
gentle gyro
i cannot live out without Zoldyck's
bleak sedge
My theory is... run whatever legendary you feel like... Because if you want to d...
its not like i didnt try to swap classes man XD
stoic needle
Its pretty trash compared to MA and even bloodfang
main forge
Seriously, Zold is my favorite. Why? because no matter the fight, I am usually one of the last ones alive. And getting those clutch progression kills....
knotty grove
problem with rerolling from rogue is that you lose so much stuff that is convenient for lazy people like me
vestal wren
zoldy adds a very strong niche
onyx wind
Zoldyck so u can get rank1 logs when ur raid wipes
stoic needle
I can't imagine playing without stealth
vestal wren
and the execute is rly strong
bleak sedge
problem with rerolling from rogue is that you lose so much stuff that is conveni...
for real XD try to get to World bosses on other classes XD you have to fight 50 adds before
knotty heron
So will Zoldyck still be king?
onyx wind
Also, zoldyck is gonna be insane for anything cleave-related
stoic needle
War mode as rogue is so fun
timid marsh
I sim more with MA then zold ;-;
knotty heron
I hate playing with MA
vestal wren
So will Zoldyck still be king?
i don't see any noticable changes in legendary choice
knotty heron
Personally
raven locust
Zoldyck provides an execute, most fights p3 is the most difficult so it's better for that alone
knotty grove
for real XD try to get to World bosses on other classes XD you have to fight 50 ...
ye, and you have to kill mobs while doing gathering quests instead of sapping them and picking up quest items
onyx wind
Didnt play MA as assa, but its so much fun as sub/outlaw
vestal wren
dusk could end up like void essence
bleak sedge
ye, and you have to kill mobs while doing gathering quests instead of sapping th...
yeah like wtf man XD
vestal wren
so you use it if the fight lengh gives you benefits
timid marsh
Personally
U Always had to vanish to deal dmg so wats the dif?
raven locust
I made a DK alt incase Rogues are still sat for prog next tier, feels bad ):
main forge
Play Boomkin, top damage, self heals, tanky, and can pull entire rooms and AOE them down. and kite them.
sick scarab
snd auto refresh blizzard listened !! tnx god
stoic needle
Yeah but then you're a meta sucking mouth breather
quasi scroll
I'm still trying to figure out the SL rotation but can anybody tell what I'm doing wrong here? I'm 204 and getting beat by a 192 monk. Is it just, bad rotation?
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/k4MKGZYhTDCvLHJx/#fight=10&type=damage-done
stoic needle
Hard pass
main forge
Agreed
bleak sedge
I made a DK alt incase Rogues are still sat for prog next tier, feels bad ):
made a dk. walked at 2mph. dropped the dk
vestal wren
Play Boomkin, top damage, self heals, tanky, and can pull entire rooms and AOE t...
lets talk about balance once we have more finished balance changes
onyx wind
I mean rogue is artificially low in the standings because of the nature of the fights
main forge
but my boomkin alt is fun to play... like I'm trash at it and do more damage than my rogue at the same gear level at the start of the expnasion.
vestal wren
the ptr update had a lot of changes
main forge
Yeah I bet.
stoic needle
I highly doubt they will leave convoke alone
main forge
didn't really eyeball it.
bleak sedge
i tried to play a caster once XD i hate it
stoic needle
Nothing hits the same as rogue it's true
knotty heron
I dont have a good reason @timid marsh i just dont enjoy it as much
main forge
Shit, makes me sad, I went Kyrian Boomkin because of the story. I wanted to see it.
stoic needle
I can't get into any other class
main forge
I play rogue because I enjoy it honestly.
raven locust
@quasi scroll You should be using Ambush talent instead of Elaborate planning
bleak sedge
the only other class i could imagine to play is fury warri tbh
stoic needle
EP isn't bad on inerva
knotty heron
I love rogue. I hate the community perception of them
main forge
Just wish all of our nerfs weren't typically coming from QQ from players complaining about rogues one shotting them.
onyx wind
Warr is the second most fun for me
bleak sedge
I love rogue. I hate the community perception of them
is that still a thing? i thought we all hate DHs now
cunning lantern
rogue feel like a noob stomper right now...
knotty grove
rogue is such a niche class in raid environment now that our RL forgot to assign my cloak for traps on artificer 
cunning lantern
rogue is such a niche class in raid environment now that our RL forgot to assign...
same
oh wait, we have a rogue
it's hurt man
raven locust
@quasi scroll On Inverva I would use Subterfuge as well and triple garrote the adds
bleak sedge
rogue is such a niche class in raid environment now that our RL forgot to assign...
i always have to do seeds lmao
main forge
Honestly... other classes do traps better.
knotty heron
@bleak sedge i had been looking for a new guild recently... and was rejected from everywhere I applied based on class alone
bleak sedge
cuz "you deal dmg in p3 only anyways "
cunning lantern
DK can clean traps without beein stuck ?
raven locust
Your raid makes you run seeds on Artificer?
quasi scroll
<@!321778515433226240> On Inverva I would use Subterfuge as well and triple garr...
Is that the rec for any 2-3 add fight?
main forge
Pally gets a 8 second immunity....
raven locust
If the adds live long enough for garrote to do damage it's the better option
Although you would see so much more damage as Outlaw on those fights
main forge
Your raid makes you run seeds on Artificer?
Of course he runs seeds, its not like the mage, spriest, boomkin can do mechanics and DPS.
raven locust
Warlocks not doing seeds are just griefing the raid xd
main forge
I have run a seed or two when its in melee, and nobody jumps on it.
onyx wind
Mage/dk utility prob needs a nerf
bleak sedge
i mean its a noob raid for new people so its fine that i do it. Im at rank 1 in dps with or without seeds in nhc
stoic needle
I'm still trying to figure out the SL rotation but can anybody tell what I'm doi...
Your garotte uptime could use some work, but also monks just do ridiculous damage atm
knotty grove
I mean the problem is DK, they do insane dmg, don't need to have 100% uptime in melee, they have raid cd on 2 min cd, better cloak, 35% execute..
raven locust
^ What Oshosi said, you should look at your percentile rather than what other classes did
bleak sedge
Your garotte uptime could use some work, but also monks just do ridiculous damag...
ww monk is so low in parses compared to the range dds in the raids
stoic needle
And yeah using subterfuge would help
onyx wind
They also have AMS
knotty grove
ye, which is better cloak like I said
stoic needle
Wdym? WW is like top 5 dps in the game right now
onyx wind
Yea noone plays WW
bleak sedge
which is cinfusing becasue after world first so many people made a wwmonk
onyx wind
wait AMS is a 1 minute cooldown XDDDDD
knotty grove
monks are good and trill is an insane player but a lot of people missed the fact that he got 233 weapon in his first vault
main forge
Last tier killed many of the WW I knew about.
stoic needle
True, there are 1/3 less
faint harness
The skill ceiling for ww monk is quite big. I am sure some people tried it and never remained monks
bleak sedge
ww feels like shit to play imo. SUre it does a lot of dmg but having to use chi wave and the other weird baseline spell is a pain
main forge
Like I played with one that was really good, spiking up to 100k at the start of our progression fights when we got the ability to get corruption.... but his damage fell off faster than other spec.
raven locust
Yea not a fan of WW either
knotty grove
antorus WW was so fun actually
main forge
No real sustain hurts.
raven locust
They basically have bloodlust on a 2 min cd though xd
bleak sedge
ye ww in legion was cool. Liked it in bfa aswelll but expel harm feels weird af
knotty grove
I wanted to level my monk, couldn't figure out where to bind expel harm for like an hour
onyx wind
Its crazy how much rogues are babyraging on forums rn
bleak sedge
xuen feels lackluster aswell. Its just a button with no impact on gaemplay but huge dmg
bleak sedge
I wanted to level my monk, couldn't figure out where to bind expel harm for like...
XD so many kebinds on monks
raven locust
I wouldn't call it babyraging, our class just isn't good outside cleave and M+
main forge
Its crazy how much rogues are babyraging on forums rn
lol on the competitivewow subreddit, I loved watching as a Outlaw rogue said "Rogues are fine right now"
bleak sedge
actually only dragonpunch feels good on monk if i think about it XD
onyx wind
Turns out rogues perform poorly in a raid where u need AoE burst
big surprise
Apart from outlaw atleast
bleak sedge
:suprised pikachu face:
raven locust
We also have some of the worst single target in the game
bleak sedge
We also have some of the worst single target in the game
which is what pisses me off the most. i dont need aoe but atleast let me shred bosses
raven locust
No reason to bring a Rogue over DK or WW
onyx wind
Do u realise how much more dmg rogue has to do to get brought over WW or DK?
raven locust
Not having raid utility and low damage is unfortunate
onyx wind
The utility those 2 bring is enough to warrant a spot
main forge
Well a good reason to bring a rogue is when you have too many raid utility.
trim zinc
Not having raid utility and low damage is unfortunate
we have an imune
bleak sedge
we have cloak and sap only tbh
trim zinc
lmao
raven locust
Soaking hasn't been a thing since legion
onyx wind
""MAGIC IMMUNE""
raven locust
😦
main forge
Sap doesn't work in combat lol
knotty grove
AMS > cloak in most cases
main forge
Shorter cooldown is a big boon
bleak sedge
is it worth keeping CT up on a single target?
dont use it in ST
trim zinc
like 60% of the other classes XD
saad
onyx wind
Also, rogue is fine on ST atm
The amount of cleave/AoE fights skew the data
so we look worse than we really are
bleak sedge
Also, rogue is fine on ST atm
but fine isnt good enough for a class that brings nothing else except shroud XD
teal bloom
!oil
prisma monolithBOT
Using consumables will increase your damage, however the difference between oil/stone/potion combinations are very minor (within 0.5% of each other). You can sim the difference for yourself by pasting this pastebin underneath your /simc input, in the "advanced sim" section of raidbots: https://pastebin.com/Lbxc7afJ
raven locust
Rogue is not fine on ST, what are you smoking
onyx wind
You could argue artificer and hungering
knotty grove
with 100% melee uptime I think outlaw is pretty good on ST
agile geode
Lol
raven locust
It doesn't matter how many ST fights there are, our damage is bad on ST
bleak sedge
artificer and hungering. Maybe sludge and shriek
and if you look at logs there we are garbage
knotty grove
but all the ST fights require us to move away from melee which is super yikes
bleak sedge
it is