since I'm a dork who is a Venthyr rogue, Nadjia I should be using Dauntless Duelist right?
#assassination
drowsy hollow
dark vigil
yes
venthyr is good just
dont like the fact the second activation is on gcd
clunky
drowsy hollow
I mostly like the armor set for rogue
dark vigil
a;ll of them are close together
i'm assuming u cant use the armor set if u unlock and switch covenant
dark vigil
yea
drowsy hollow
so I've spread out my leather classes to get all 4
dark vigil
i think they all look bad
but yea
smart
the pain of covenant swapping will get lessned later on
100%
cosmic trail
I mainly do pvp
drowsy hollow
I think lethal and fan are so close it comes down to if you want slightly more trash damage or more boss damage
lethal is just a good mix
dark vigil
mm
according to sims fan of knives one is almost double
for cleave
but yeah it gives you zero boss dmg
drowsy hollow
based on wowhead guide, says lethal in first potency slot
dark vigil
drowsy hollow
that niya's tools poison seems off unless it's assuming you never get to kick
drowsy hollow
I've been told it's actually better than burrs in damage if it'll last 30s
dark vigil
it probably can
but
the only time that might be the case is pvp.. maybe
pve you're rarely gonna be able to get that on cd
for raiding
drowsy hollow
it's been a while since there was a raid boss you have to kick
dark vigil
and even in dungeons
drowsy hollow
at least it doesn't seem as common as it used to
dark vigil
the only janky ones are kyrian and venthyr
rest are just w/e
does lethal poisons synergize with the talent
stoic needle
poisoned katar isn't good because it sucks unless you consistently have 5 targets every pull. you don't always except for in a few dungeons so LP is usually better
and the poison tools is overrated because that bloodmallet comparison uses casting patchwerk. there just aren't enough things to kick in dungeons or raids for it to do as much damage as burrs
or first strike
cosmic trail
Just got my cloacked in shadow 184 from a WQ in reven 😄
kind veldt
!guide
prisma monolithBOT
strange python
is the dmg differential between PB and CT huge in m+?
stoic needle
Yes. Sim it for yourself but not having ct is about a 200 DPS loss for me in aoe
Run ct even on tryrannical weeks. Pb isn't enough of a single target gain to outweigh the aoe loss
kind veldt
Can we get well place steel conduit above 200 from M+? Cause I can get lethal poisons at 226 for pvp, probably will be better than well placed steel cause ilvl
winter gale
Niya or Korayn for ST/raiding?
pseudo hamlet
Niya with Burrs I think. You can also Sim them! Though I'd go with Niya for that awesome last trait.
pseudo hamlet
You can use 4 Garrotes with Subterfuge, but only 3 would work as a "buffed" ones.
remote drift
how so?
subterfuge says it also applies while in stealth
as in, "from stealth and for 3 seconds after breaking stealth"
how do you get the 4th hit in tho? be it ambush, garrote or anything else
pseudo hamlet
Because you won't have CD on it.
verbal mantle
no cooldown on garrote when using from stealth
remote drift
subterfuge only ever gives me 2 extra hits and seems to expire 0.00000001 seconds before I can land the third
pseudo hamlet
That's weird.
remote drift
because the third hit always tells me "Must be in Stealth"
verbal mantle
you will have 3 empowered garrotes, and a 4th one, not empowered
remote drift
is there any way I can gain a 4th hit
pseudo hamlet
You must be slow then.
I mean no offense, maybe high MS or something. I also had problems with 4 garrotes at first.
verbal mantle
you need to be quicker, train yourself on dummies
remote drift
You must be slow then.
every one of those skills is queued
is low haste a factor
I'm running sub gear
pseudo hamlet
Are you using Garrote in the Stealth Bar?
remote drift
trying with vigor and ambushes rn
pseudo hamlet
Because if you do - then that's the problem. You should use it on different keybind.
remote drift
so I always get enough energy to hit 4 times
pseudo hamlet
Haste factor is non-exinstent in this scenario. I mean unimportant.
pseudo hamlet
Then click Garrotes only on the bars "outside of stealth" and you should get 4x garrotes no problem.
Do not use the stealth bar, otherwise you won't be able to get the fourth one.
pseudo hamlet
The Stealth Bar has some kind of "cd" when they're switching with the "out of stealth bar".
remote drift
yes but it should not happen before the switch right?
one sec tho
I will try 4 ambushes on an out of stealth bar
pseudo hamlet
You won't be able because you can only use 3 abilities in subterfuge I think.
pseudo hamlet
You use 3 Garrotes in Subterfuge -> and then the last one OUT of the stealth.
remote drift
yes but you have one from the original stealth right
1 from stealth -> 3 from subterfuge -> out of stealth combat
pseudo hamlet
But the subterfuge "is rolling" after the first ability.
verbal mantle
yes
copper hazel
1>2
pseudo hamlet
So realistically you can use 3 abilities in stealth.
copper hazel
lol
pseudo hamlet
Yes, in PvE and PvP.
copper hazel
yes
verbal mantle
pseudo hamlet
It's awesome in M+ when you put many garrotes on enemies for the energy.
remote drift
only got 2 choices anyway
pseudo hamlet
3?
remote drift
this and nightstalker
because my legendary is mark for sub pvp
is it better than nightstalker
pseudo hamlet
It's better for M+, you can put 4 garrotes at start and not be energy-starved.
remote drift
energy?
pseudo hamlet
And there's no scenario where you should use 3-4 ambushes in the row.
remote drift
does it affect your energy?
pseudo hamlet
Yes.
remote drift
oh the anbmushes were just a test
pseudo hamlet
Abilities -> Assassination -> Venomous Wounds
remote drift
oh
nice
btw after all the buffs
is assassination in general worth anything in pvp
it seems to be almost even simpler than sub
if that's a thing...?
pseudo hamlet
Assa is viable in PvP, I've seen some high-rating rogues using it. Though its better to play with a healer(disc priest for example).
pseudo hamlet
But yeah, @verbal mantle is right, because Sub has superior utility, movement and really high bursts.
remote drift
mostly rbgs tho
verbal mantle
still
remote drift
also unrelated question but
does doomblade envenom boost work with necrolord ability?
pseudo hamlet
I doubt it, but I am not sure.
winter gale
Guys is there any alternative in soulbinds so I dont need to swap conduits non stop?
median mango
Guys is there any alternative in soulbinds so I dont need to swap conduits non s...
I do niya st and korayn m+
Prob would also want Niya for PvP though so
Rough times. 😄
winter gale
So Niya is bis for St?
median mango
So Niya is bis for St?
Yes
median mango
maybe Dreamweaver with the final haste buff is better eventually but one of the smart guys here probably already simmed that. 😄
median mango
Going for Outlaw channel now to check can I Korayn for mythic+ as Outaw* 😄
Yw. I don't see korayn not being good for outlaw though
winter gale
I have raids on Sunday and Wednsday, with friday HC reclear for those weekly thingies as I dont have Vessel yet
median mango
My only HC trinket is the one from council and I hate my life. 🙃
celest ruin
!oil
prisma monolithBOT
Using consumables will increase your damage, however the difference between oil/stone/potion combinations are very minor (within 0.5% of each other). You can sim the difference for yourself by pasting this pastebin underneath your /simc input, in the "advanced sim" section of raidbots: https://pastebin.com/0CnXcRR1
celest ruin
dumb question, is the !oil accurate? it doesnt seem to add either oil or stone, just food and potion
tropic ocean
Is dashing sim accurate?
vestal wren
i don't see why it wouldn't be
tropic ocean
Cuz noone is using it
vestal wren
@celest ruin this should work: https://pastebin.com/Lbxc7afJ
tropic ocean
I know zoldyck for execute but not even one using it to rank when its >1% up
Is suspicious
celest ruin
@vestal wren doing gods work
vestal wren
its the same reason people don't play akaaris
its only slightly better on single target
vestal wren
i think the main reason is that you don't rly bring assassination outside of the execute niche
vestal wren
also there is the thing where people are toxic about the choices
and tell you that you did huge mistakes by not building zoldy
celest ruin
MA simming higher for me than zoldy
obtuse quest
Hello is it worth to go Master assa on mythic + as assasination? or im just trolling
vestal wren
it depends
MA is a great m+ legendary for all 3
but night faes 31 renon unlock might want you to use a spec specific legendary instead
obtuse quest
and what talent should i run with the master assa legend? on assasination?
should i sim or one is btter than the other rn?
vestal wren
i would advice you to not take the master assassin talent
you can go with the standard talents
crimson tempest is iirc the dominant choice atm (in m+)
obtuse quest
okay thx i will see
rn i think sub is underperformance and in cases is pretty hard to play it
obtuse quest
have you tried sludgfist mythic on sub ?
obtuse quest
because im doing the progress on that boss rn and is so frustrating and i want to know if i can perform better with assa
obtuse quest
yeah hahaha txh so much @vestal wren
median mango
its hard to do big mistakes on assassination
This is actually so true, like the one things that you can do to min max is proper pooling and buff management going into shiv windows
But when I f that up and only envenom once it barely makes a difference
Other fluctuations in just the pull itself outweigh that so much
median mango
The only thing I can think of is having both snd and rupture fall of at the same time because you want to squeeze another envenom into shiv
vestal wren
the "big mistakes" are:
- not using/maintaining your maintenance stuff
- not using vendetta or delaying it for extended periods of time
strange python
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's:
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
strange python
is the whole spec really just maintaining two bleeds/cnd and hitting vendetta on cd
vestal wren
i think you can reduce all specs to a very simple concept
strange python
I mean it doesnt sound much harder than unga bunga mashing sinister strike 150 times in a fight so 
median mango
But I think it's not fair to judge sin by its single target rotation
There is a lot of min maxing once you get into cleave imo
strange python
frost mage still easier
vestal wren
there are a lot of fail saves
vestal wren
you can apply rupture on sin without issues to any target you see
it needs to survive for nearly the entire duraiton to do the same on #subtlety
having this, means its less likely that you make a mistake with rupture applications
strange python
oh idk just if there are any other builders you wanna be tossing in
just shiv on cd
strange python
that talent is really weird to me ambush feels like it hits like a wet noodle
vestal wren
i mean, i don't want to say you should do that
strange python
oh I know I'm just saying the spell feels crappy 
vestal wren
but you could possibly just create a macro that puts ambush/garrote/mut in one key
strange python
I wish it did more damage
topaz saffron
It's nice CP generation 😄
solid mica
Korayn first strike+celerity is my go to for m+ for whoever was asking (main OL atm)
vestal wren
🤔 problem with the macro would be that you would possibly use 3 times garrote in the opener
is subterfuge/stealth the same stance, if its not i can see potential there
topaz saffron
Sin really doesn't have too many abilities to justify that
strange python
it looks more fun to play in M+ than sub lmao
strange python
is septic shock a meme conduit on this spec too
vestal wren
its decent
prisma monolithBOT
Fuus Shadowlands evaluation Spreadsheet: http://tiny.cc/uxr1tz
vestal wren
!fuu
strange python
oh nice
vestal wren
first strike is insane
river wedge
ok, this MIGHT sound stupid BUT.. i found out that if you have conduit "Count the odds" from outlaw spec if you use ambush u trigger buffs from roll the bones
strange python
I feel like that would be poo
cause for us it can just save you a reroll gcd for a bit
since it gives you buffs you dont already have
and if you have crap it might give you good ones
grave cove
ok, this MIGHT sound stupid BUT.. i found out that if you have conduit "Count th...
Wait for real?
vestal wren
it did on beta
grave cove
Anyone know if this is any good?
vestal wren
i thought it was fixed
river wedge
there is a proof
strange python
I think it still does lol cause when I was messing with sin rotation on my toon a few days ago on a training dummy I was getting buffs
off of ambush
since I didnt change conduits
river wedge
same here xD that how i found out about this
agile stump
Hi all! Im thinking about swapping to NF from KY but wonder if i lose all the conduit upgrades in the swap?
river wedge
you dont lose conduits
grave cove
maybe this is some hidden interaction that blizz implemented so that sin rogues can top meters
agile stump
Alright! Great! Thanks!
strange python
whats the fastest way to even farm renown on swap
spam heroics and nuke everything
pliant apex
Do you always want to double envenom after Vanish? Or is single enough in case rup/gar need to be refreshed?
pseudo hamlet
I am always trying to go like:
4-5CP -> Vanish -> Envenom -> Mutilate -> Envenom
Not sure if that's right though (MA talent)
teal bloom
Heyy! I am wondering if I should just use vendetta/shiv on cooldown as long as the target has bleeds+snd is active. I find myself often delaying them to line up for vendetta->shiv->vanish etc. combo and I don't know if I just lose some uses of them during raid fights as a result and my dps is lower overall. And if I happen to have 0, 1 or 2 combo points when shiv comes of cd, is it better to just use it immediately or should i do one more mutilate so that I can use envenom after. Just joined this Discord in hopes I can gain some extra dps for HC Denathrius that my guild is struggling with.
pseudo hamlet
I think that usable every CD is situational... I mean like, when your target is going to die in 3-4 seconds you shouldn't use them(unless it's a boss that you're going to kill hehe).
But for real - I am pretty sure you're asking about the ST fight where the boss still have high HP. I'd use them on CD, but... would also wait a second or few to let my energy regen(for example to not use Shiv when I am energy starved). By that I don't mean waiting AFTER the CD, but when you have SnD and all your bleeds up and you see that Shiv is going off the CD in a 2-3 seconds -> then just wait for the energy(so you'll be able to get more envenoms during the debuff).
placid dawn
celest ruin
can you still squeeze in a third envenom within TB window?
or not with the current possible haste levels?
knotty heron
I am always trying to go like:
4-5CP -> Vanish -> Envenom -> Mutilate -> Envenom...
You dont empowered garrote?
frosty bridge
the guide says Subterfuge for ST, the pins say MA
Which one?
I want to give this a try
plain thistle
both are close, sim yourself
pseudo hamlet
You dont empowered garrote?
I am playing MA(it's simming higher for me right now)
plain thistle
most likely for pure single target MA will be a little better, but not by much
knotty heron
Ohhhhhh
teal bloom
Yeah as Eazye said, I think I should pool energy for shiv but I am probably just bad so it feels that I always have to refresh bleed/snd just before shiv comes of cd and I find myself energy starved :/ Assassination isn't that hard in general but I feel there are so many things to optimize and I can't really focus on everything during a raid fight where there are mechanics happening 😦
spice spire
can you still squeeze in a third envenom within TB window?
It’s possible, just wouldn’t hold for it. I also assume you mean shiv, as long as you get an envenom out in the window, it was a good shiv
frosty bridge
Does sepsis and burrs get buffed by zoldycks btw?
teal bloom
Did I understand right that Burrs beats Niya's tools: poison even though you lose a potency conduit?
iron orchid
Did I understand right that Burrs beats Niya's tools: poison even though you los...
in most situations, yes
iron orchid
Does sepsis and burrs get buffed by zoldycks btw?
nope, they are not considered as poisons, but as Nature DoT effects
keen spruce
at least for outlaw, burrs by itself is like 6% of your damage on a raid boss
so almost always worth dropping a potency conduit
prisma monolithBOT
Whispyrs Bis list: http://tiny.cc/76r5tz
shrewd plinth
!bis
raven egret
is CtO on assa already blacklisting logs or no?
sly elk
I figure to mention it as listed above, but other conduits behave the same way (i.e. fury warriors getting the arms conduit for whirlwind damage after bladestorm), so I don't think they're truly separated between specs like legendaries are
Either that or Rogue is only just now being able to do things other classes have been able to
strange python
TIL Zoldyck is actually from an anime called Hunter X Hunter lol
a family of assassins
plain thistle
yeah, and it was a legion legendary too 🙂
faint harness
Most of the legion legendaries had pop culture references in the name
Or not most maybe, but a lot
wary ice
I know that fire mage had Colonel Mustang's snappy gloves
stoic needle
there is a proof
You get the buffs but you don't actually get the bonus from most of them
sly elk
You get the buffs but you don't actually get the bonus from most of them
Well technically you get at least partial benefits from most. The only one you get nothing from is sinister strike double hit. Everything else carries some universal up side
stoic needle
You don't get the crit bonus
sly elk
You do, but it's not the full 60%
It still provides a 20% crit bonus to other abilities
(as a small refresher)
stoic needle
I'm pretty sure you don't get the 20% as sin
I tested this a while back
You don't get the cdr from true bearing either
Nor the snd bonus from grand melee
Nor the extra cp or damage from broadside
sly elk
Not that I don't believe you, but I hope you don't mind if I test it for myself real quick
stoic needle
The only thing you actually benefit from is the leech from grand melee and the energy regen from buried treasure
Go ahead. They specifically whitelisted this stuff to remove the interactions otherwise cto would be our best conduit lol
weak ice
Hey, is assa after buffs competive with outlaw ?
iron orchid
Hey, is assa after buffs competive with outlaw ?
not with outlaw on most situations
probably competitive with sub
weak ice
Damn I really dont like outlaw. Thanks
sly elk
Mkay I'm back
sly elk
So to summarize my findings: Less than I thought, but more than expected
As an example, the cdr doesn't apply to most of our abilities but does apply to shared abilities (marked for death, sprint)
The 60% crit chance isn't usable by us, but the 20% crit on "all other abilities" does seem to apply (though with something like crits it's hard to be certain)
The energy from treasure does apply, and while we don't get the extra combo point we do seem to get the extra 20% damage from broadside
Grand melee doesn't apply extra slice duration, but it does seem to apply the leech
At least based on the testing I did
Keeping in mind, with the inconsistency of getting the procs to occur, the data range here is very small so I would take it with a large grain of salt
stoic needle
You can take off all of your gear except weapons to lower your crit chance. Do your weapons have sinful and celestial on them? Those procs could be increasing your damage to make it seem like broadside is giving bonus damage
Interesting findings though
sly elk
I figured that might be the case so I used unenchanted weapons
pliant apex
i see most people are runnign sub instead of MA for raiding nathria? is sub way better for ST?
sly elk
As far as the crit chance goes, with the gear on I went from about 11 crits per "rotation" to about 14, without gear I went from about 6 to about 7
But, again, the data range is small here
stoic needle
Did you notice the stats on your character sheet changing?
spice spire
i see most people are runnign sub instead of MA for raiding nathria? is sub way ...
Old habits die hard.
pliant apex
will suibterfuge change rotation greatly?
sly elk
I'll double check here to be sure
dark vigil
subterfuge would be slightly better on multi target for snapshotting some strong garrotes
spice spire
MA in most cases is a gain
dark vigil
like huntsman
stoic needle
will suibterfuge change rotation greatly?
It changes your opener. If you have lower crit ma is better, if not then subterfuge is usually equal and better on cleave fights/fights with adds
pliant apex
It changes your opener. If you have lower crit ma is better, if not then subterf...
is it significantly better tho ohs?
spice spire
Subterfuge is very good on huntsman slg and denathrius and can be good on fights like council (nicklaus)
stoic needle
Some people with high crit have subterfuge simming equal to MA
spice spire
We’re talking about 20 dps max difference
pliant apex
ahh fuck sub then
spice spire
It won’t make or break yet.
pliant apex
ty , all i wanted to hear
spice spire
Yeah subterfuge opener is extremely ez as well, garrote > mutilate > SnD
pliant apex
but its unfun to play, and 20 dps is meh, were a casual guild
sly elk
@stoic needle To make note, the crit bonus from ruthless percision doesn't apply to the character page
It's just an innate bonus to the moves themselves
sly elk
I double checked and referenced to Outlaw as well and it doesn't show on theirs either
Also, obviously, the assassin conduits work for outlaw and sub as well (though their effectiveness is debatable)
spice spire
Yeah, I wouldn’t worry about the difference at this time. Subterfuge does do more on these cleave fights and it’s a little more than 20 dps. But you’re not suffering a debilitating loss like not running blindside rn in single target
stoic needle
Apparently ep will end up better than blindside on st eventually with enough gear
spice spire
It always does
stoic needle
I wish ambush wasn't shit 
pliant apex
do i need to double envenom during vanish ? or is single enough?
spice spire
I shouldn’t speak in absolutes. It makes sense that it eventually will. When you’re not energy starved at all; you don’t want to cast a suboptimal spell, even if it’s free
You don’t NEED to but it does help a bit
Especially if you can window and get a double crit
But that’s just the dream
spice spire
Yes.
pliant apex
ahh
spice spire
First part was regarding EP vs blindside, sorry. Should have responded!
pliant apex
so double envenom ideal but not always possible?
since you might need to refresh gar/rupture?
spice spire
It’s better to use vanish on CD than to hold for a window. And correct.
pliant apex
thanks much
spice spire
Unless it’s sludgefist or something like that
The double crit sludgefist pillars are pretty bonkers
sly elk
Your priority to my understanding is always keeping your bleeds up, even taking priority over an envenom, since that's basically 100% of your energy regen and consistency
pliant apex
ahh
spice spire
It’s a good question when it comes to your crit window with master assassin though.
But losing one of those energy regens means you’re dropping casts elsewhere which is a bigger dps loss iirc
sly elk
Yeah, though I feel like unless you're about to phase out of a burst phase or phase into an immune phase, bleed takes priority
Thats just me though
stoic needle
The double crit sludgefist pillars are pretty bonkers
I had a 26k envenom on sludgefist followed by a 15k... Glorious
sly elk
Of course, also need to consider other factors like what legendary you're bringing and where the fight is at in terms of breakpoints
mental wing
!Bis
prisma monolithBOT
Whispyrs Bis list: http://tiny.cc/76r5tz
sly elk
If you have something like Dashing to supplement your energy gain over a longer fight, losing the momentary bleed likely won't negatively impact you THAT much over the course of the fight overall
dark vigil
does snapshotting work on sludge during his pillar ive actually never played a dot class during sludge
i'd imagine not
since its way diff
spice spire
It does not
It’ll do more damage while@he’s taking more, but the same cast will go back to normal damage after the debuff wears off
gusty mirage
Know what makes me sad? That they gut SBS in beta and its kinda doo doo now
tender fjord
There is literally 0% interaction with necro abilities haha
sly elk
I cri evertiem
sly elk
Can't stack multiple bone spikes in the same target
Can't make them bleed out faster
Really, what a shame lol
tender fjord
It’s just a shame that they balanced the covenants all to just 3% dps
Which means they are all allowed to do jack shit
tender fjord
Rogues suffer a lot from their public image that they can gank someone from stealth, can’t have them do a lot of dmg if they decide the opener or you gonna have outcry
balmy condor
That shouldn’t be an issue really
Blizzard specifically has tuning parameters for pvp
For that reason
tender fjord
Same time I think they want to make players feel they’re roughly playing the same game in pve and pvp
So reworks are really difficult
balmy condor
How does tuning the damage separately make that different
vital crown
does sepsis get bonus dmg from the zoldyck lego also do you guys think its worth going kyrian?
tender fjord
We’re pretty frontloaded a lot of the times
balmy condor
does sepsis get bonus dmg from the zoldyck lego also do you guys think its worth...
- No
- All covenants are close
balmy condor
We’re pretty frontloaded a lot of the times
Can you elaborate?
tender fjord
New abilities can’t be really game changing as they can turnout game breaking real quick
Didn’t that happen in the beta with sbs?
wide bolt
that happened on live with convoke tbf
tender fjord
Lol true
gusty mirage
the divine toll lotto with ret pallies is pretty lul
tender fjord
the divine toll lotto with ret pallies is pretty lul
It’s the most game breaking thing imo
balmy condor
Without big abilities, the game gets stale however
gusty mirage
I just want us to be great dps again 😦
balmy condor
Which is a problematic situation
tender fjord
I think that is the reason why sub is going to feel same in SL as in Bfa
sly elk
Personally
I just want to not feel bad when I'm hitting an enemy immune to kidney shot lol
gusty mirage
You get used to it after 2 expacs on M+, people DRing stuns for 2s stuns feels GREAT
strange python
Sin is a great spec. I'm not the best at it. But with the zoldych leggo. Feels great.
Phase 3
teal bloom
Why is Assassination rogue's icon on WarcraftLogs Eviscerate when we don't even use that ability
strange python
Ha ha. Whoops
balmy condor
Yeah that’s always been the spec icon
gusty mirage
the double poisoned daggers in the icon now, but it used to always be eviscerate
because assassination used to have improved eviscerate way back in the day
mint hinge
At how many targets should I be using crimson tempest? Also when I'm speced into it, is it worth keeping up on st?
balmy condor
if you're specced into CT, you would cast on 2 targets
you can talent into CT if you have 2-3+ sustained targets
kind veldt
!guide
prisma monolithBOT
median mango
you can talent into CT if you have 2-3+ sustained targets
So what you are saying is we should CT on Huntsman? 
dark vigil
Competitive
sterile talon
I don't think it's the play though
Why is CT on huntsman not the play
balmy condor
imo too much time away from the boss
sterile talon
The adds ? 2nd dog is the only dog that moves and still comes back to melee frequently enough to CT it but then again you have 2 other dogs with pretty much 100% uptime on
With Zoldyck aswell
sterile talon
Give it a try
royal lantern
feels a bit like padding too tbh
sterile talon
Not really
sterile talon
Dmg is duplicated
balmy condor
no one's taking that shit
royal lantern
eh more like
its fking huntsman
too much gold waste too use a tome just too switch too CT lel
balmy condor
yeah but there's still sweaty loggers
balmy condor
like the question isn't "is it worth switching"
sterile talon
Im just saying from a fight profile prespective
sterile talon
CT is defo the play imo
balmy condor
is it better?
dunno
it might be
if don't move the second dog around too much I think it's good
sterile talon
It is
It should do over 10% of your dmg on such a fight
Which is way more effective dmg than PB would give you
stoic needle
Not necessarily true because you're casting less envenoms to keep ct up
balmy condor
no
stoic needle
No
stoic needle
Imagine having fun covenant legendary interactions 
remote drift
I don't intend to play assassination rogue in general in pve
stoic needle
I think MA is doing to be a tad bit worse after they remove trinkets and NW weapons from working with it
balmy condor
aha
remote drift
nw weapons?
stoic needle
Necrotic Wake
balmy condor
the spear and stuff
remote drift
oh
stoic needle
They crit 100% with MA
remote drift
I use honour trinkets so it probably doesn't change anything
remote drift
just waiting for that fleshcraft buff tbh
finally a good covenant choice that doesn't involve blizzard's favourite child covenant
remote drift
pvp only ofc
stoic needle
The mog 🤢
stoic needle
Necro
dark vigil
Necro
remote drift
necro mog is best
dark vigil
I think all the leather looks bad
remote drift
except the shoulders but like
dark vigil
As a full set anyways
stoic needle
dark vigil
Some pieces of each don't look bad
stoic needle
Venthyr looks amazing
dark vigil
Venthyr is eh
remote drift
but like
stoic needle
And the black kyrian one isn't bad either
remote drift
is blizzard shitposting
stoic needle
For warrior
?
stoic needle
Are you talking about the banner
dark vigil
Pepega
stoic needle
Yeah the banner is nuts
remote drift
hey you get a pvp burst spell but... no combo points so no symbols
and it does like -4 dps
stoic needle
I'm mad that venthyr is the covenant that they can't seem to do anything right with
dark vigil
Hopefully more rounds of changes throughout ptr
remote drift
straight up just fucking hates the entire covenant lmao
wide bolt
blizz just wanted to recreate the feeling of class halls and spun a wheel that landed on warrior so they made venthyr good for warriors and no one else
stoic needle
It's pretty decent for most classes
remote drift
soulbinds are a total meme and
stoic needle
It's just unbelievably shit for rogue
And yeah the soulbinds are just poorly designed
Wtf is draven
Wtf is thrill seeker
remote drift
door of shadows is omegatrash
thrill seeker is literally the worst top ability they could possibly think of
remote drift
draven tree is basically an anti drug ad saying "don't do drugs you'll end up designing this"
stoic needle
If built for war was 10% it'd actually be pretty cool
remote drift
and they had to give it the good leather set
stoic needle
But 3% is a joke
remote drift
good thing I actually like the black necro leather
now kyrian isn't all bad but meh
stoic needle
Kyrian is pretty solid but I just don't like them as a faction
remote drift
the good set is locked behind aeons of grinding anima and souls to unlock path of ascension and then aeons of grinding path of ascension
kyrian are a pretty cool faction but
they aren't necrolords
stoic needle
Necrolord is kinda memey
remote drift
at least they're not night fae
stoic needle
That's why it's awesome xD
stoic needle
I just wish they had 2 leather sets
remote drift
actually scratch that
stoic needle
It's very obviously a druid set
remote drift
all their sets except...mail? look atrocious
stoic needle
They didn't even try to make an alternate version for the non druid classes
The cloth and plate look fine
stoic needle
I think this is the inherent problem with having armor sets based on type instead of class
remote drift
honestly the only covenant with consistently good mogs turns out to be the one blizzard hates with a burning passion
stoic needle
They look cool for one class and utter garbage for the others
remote drift
it's almost like
stoic needle
Lies
remote drift
blizzard is consciously making you choose between mogs and actually good abilities
stoic needle
My taste is the only valid taste
remote drift
low quality bait
remote drift
which of the raid mogs
median mango
Smile
royal lantern
Someone here thinks I could get all pieces of the raid mog to drop
7/9 hc 5/9 mythic
elite pvp full, normal glad 5/9
median mango
Wasn't talking about you
remote drift
cleared lfr for the first time today
remote drift
remote drift
pvp not giving enough anima
gusty mirage
and wiping on sludgefist without chains somehow?
gusty mirage
its lfr
remote drift
pulled with one tank
gusty mirage
that's the only reason lmao
remote drift
idk lfr just isn't what it used to be I guess
stoic needle
The raid mog is kinda meh too
remote drift
no more 50x wipes
gusty mirage
they dumbed down the mechanics hard for lfr
stoic needle
Not bad but not really my fav
remote drift
cleared sire on 2nd try 😔
gusty mirage
because those mechanics wipe you even on normal lol
remote drift
first try
I ended up tanking
I played assassination
while assassination might not be a meta dps
I doubt tanking is the way to go
remote drift
in a good spot?
royal lantern
its ok
gusty mirage
it is
royal lantern
at best
royal lantern
like, its ok, you dont litearlly troll by playing sin anymore
but good spot is pretty brave too say lel
remote drift
like it's probably bottom half but
remote drift
at least it's not the other two warlocks and survival
gusty mirage
IT'S THE BEST SHUT UP 😦
royal lantern
at least it's not the other two warlocks and survival
well, except that destro lock is in the top8 now
🙂
2lock specs above all rogue specs btw
gusty mirage
I'm about to int my m+ group hard by switching assa without telling them
royal lantern
again
gusty mirage
remote drift
it's okay
royal lantern
frost and destro are really high now
remote drift
no matter how many warlock specs
remote drift
are above all rogue specs
you can still sustain yourself entirely off warlock player tears
not sure if there's a bigger group of crybabies than the warlock playerbase
gusty mirage
all 12 of them?
remote drift
affliction
dark vigil
sin does really good execute dmg which is important for most of these fights
sludge, p3 deanthrius
royal lantern
not sure if there's a bigger group of crybabies than the warlock playerbase
mage,paladin, DRUID DRUID DRUID and DRUID
remote drift
druids don't seem that bad tbh
gusty mirage
balance druids have been crying super hard this expac, despite using incarn -> convoke = free 20k dps
remote drift
well
dark vigil
boomkin is insane
remote drift
the druids that don't play imbalance seem pretty chill
royal lantern
daily reminder that the druid "playerbase" complained so much about monks having zenflight with normal flying speed, and that it ruins "the druid fantasy" cus they where not the only class with a instant mount anymore
that blizzard killed zen flight
🙂
dark vigil
@frail fossil hard to see, i did some log comparisons and dks had more dps in last phase but not by much
remote drift
there are 2 types of druids
dark vigil
also dk has some insane cds
frail fossil
<@!316191055592554497> hard to see, i did some log comparisons and dks had more ...
yeah
and they dont have amz
or a 1min cloak
dark vigil
dark vigil
or 10% more hp than every other class
remote drift
the ones who play feral, guardian and rest and the ones we don't talk about
royal lantern
or grip
remote drift
🙃
royal lantern
or a conduit that makes kick a dps increase
royal lantern
or a stun that is ranged and doesnt lose you dps
royal lantern
and the best execute
dark vigil
their execute isnt the best anymore
but its still really high
theyve fallen off a bit in terms of dmg
but they still have insane everything
remote drift
who
royal lantern
they didnt fall
frail fossil
unholy
dark vigil
they did
royal lantern
kill timers are just shorter now
remote drift
oh them
frail fossil
like if sin want to be in raid cuz of execute
balmy condor
It’s so weird to me that people think rising and falling is an actual thing that happens
remote drift
ww in what content
royal lantern
It’s so weird to me that people think rising and falling is an actual thing that...
ikr lel
tranquil robin
All content
royal lantern
ALL content?
frail fossil
make their execute better than dk
remote drift
idk about pve
frail fossil
ALL content?
pet battle ?
royal lantern
ww is litearlly top3 dps in raids, best melee by far in m+ and best class with mage/paladin in pvp lol
dark vigil
ww is dominating every form of content yea
royal lantern
and like
remote drift
almost
royal lantern
WHO cares about pvp
dark vigil
they only suffer a bit on pure single target
frail fossil
WHO cares about pvp <:omegalul:585734084777476096>
dark vigil
but they still are nuts
best spot theyve been in for years
and they bring a raid debuff..
frail fossil
remote drift
oh yeah
dark vigil
how hard is it for blizzard to just
remote drift
mfw I just realized I still haven't changed my profile pic
dark vigil
make dps specs that dont have a raid buff (dh, mage, monk, warrior) be outclassed in dmg
remote drift
I don't even have a 60 dh
gusty mirage
don't worry guys we're getting 6 more yards to melee for 10s for venthyr
GAME CHANGING
remote drift
don't worry guys we're getting 6 more yards to melee for 10s for venthyr
ranged outlaw
gusty mirage
I'd pay good money to just hear the class balance team's discussions about rogues as a whole
it'd be good content tbh
remote drift
I'd pay good money to just hear the class balance team's discussions about rogue...
I can join a voice channel with you and mute my microphone it'll be the exact same
gusty mirage
it'd be like the chappelle show copy store skit "Why aren't we changing rogues? Because fuck em thats why"
dark vigil
its so simple in my eyes
remote drift
how I wish tho
dark vigil
class that is entirely dependent on tuning should be doing like 5% more dmg than a class that brings raid utility
remote drift
that subtlety would just get
dark vigil
at the minimum
remote drift
baseline dark shadow for pve only
and just
delete dark shadow
no more shitpost pve builds that make bad players cry
remote drift
no more bad dps
royal lantern
@balmy condor hmmmm, this channel is really like sub was in bfa
every 20min something about the spec, outside of it just offtopic 
balmy condor
I’m not paying attention anymore man
frail fossil
<@!167090536602140682> hmmmm, this channel is really like sub was in bfa
why, sub is worst 
balmy condor
I don’t have the energy
dark vigil
or maybe have prey on the weak have a really high cd but work in bossing
and that would give rogue some niche
frail fossil
whispyr 
balmy condor
<@!167090536602140682> hmmmm, this channel is really like sub was in bfa
Worst part is that the every 20 minutes it’s a simple question about the spec that is then followed by 15 minutes of arguing over minutia from people who don’t have a fucking clue
remote drift
arguing over covenant mogs is productive
remote drift
anything I say is a shitpost because I have no in game cred btw
unironically
but to go back to ass rogue discussion
what's the best necro soulbind tree post fc buff
royal lantern
hey thats why im helping SOMETIMES man 🙂
remote drift
in pvp*
visual totem
!bis
prisma monolithBOT
Whispyrs Bis list: http://tiny.cc/76r5tz
dark vigil
in pvp u prob wanna go first tree for the hp shield, fleshcraft cc immunity
remote drift
thinking marileth for ultimate form
dark vigil
and i think you get double potency too
remote drift
emeni looks okay for like
remote drift
the top ability but at the same time an agility buff for 5 seconds
feelsbadman
this is specifically ass rogue related
not sure about heirmir
remote drift
no idea what your problem is
gusty mirage
Aight I’m out, wake me up when it’s over
It'll be a while
remote drift
I've literally stopped shitposting to talk specifically about assassination rogue and nothing else
everything I say now is 0% shitpost 100% assassination rogue
balmy condor
I’m trying to move conversations towards the channels dedicated for it, and i get hit with the classic “iTs nOt PvP iTs SiN”
remote drift
that said does heirmir have any merit for this class
balmy condor
Heirmir is the best soulbind for necro
remote drift
with the potency bottom ability
snow arch
Yes heirmir is bis for necro rogue
balmy condor
Nah, with gemstone
dark vigil
emeni sims higher for cleave but requires some degenerate minmaxing
snow arch
Check bloodmallet
balmy condor
emeni sims higher for cleave but requires some degenerate minmaxing
Not true
remote drift
gemstone even in pvp? is mobility not that much of an issue?
dark vigil
it does for 4+ target cleave
balmy condor
You really don’t play around emeni
dark vigil
it requires some degenerate minmaxing
remote drift
would assume that with only one charge of shadow step the extra ms would gain value
dark vigil
but its so clunky
balmy condor
How
dark vigil
its not worth
remote drift
correct me if wrong tho
balmy condor
How do you min max it
dark vigil
no like
remote drift
I think he means optimize around the reset on death?
dark vigil
with emeni you would want to optimize the stat buff
to keep recasting it when the buff is about to run out
remote drift
that said tho would it theoretically be possible to
gain hella uptime by optimizing around the reset on death
balmy condor
There’s nothing special about emeni specifically
remote drift
probably meme strategies but still
balmy condor
It resets if the dot is on it
So you’re getting the same amount of resets
Regardless
dark vigil
id prefer to us enightfae anyways
for priority targets
also not sure if shiv buff works with night fae since its nature dmg
visual totem
Zoldyck vs Dashing? for raiding and M+ purposes
dark vigil
id imagine so
balmy condor
It does
dark vigil
zold
balmy condor
Zoldyck vs Dashing? for raiding and M+ purposes
Zold
Shiv works on all nature damage abilities
remote drift
mechanical question
balmy condor
Mhm
remote drift
if you have dots up on a target, and you use heirmir, and die
do the dots applied before death lose damage?
balmy condor
Not sure tbh
I would assume the dots drop and you get the resets if you die
But I’m honestly not familiar enough with necro
remote drift
well if you die with rupture or garrote on a target it still keeps ticking
balmy condor
Since no one plays it
remote drift
but I haven't unlocked heirmir yet
balmy condor
Yeah but it’s an infinite dot
fleet whale
Seli plays necro
remote drift
switched only after I saw fc buff
balmy condor
Which needs some extra checks
fleet whale
He might be the only one lol
remote drift
talking about all dots here
balmy condor
Dots in general stay until the mob resets
remote drift
sbs, rupture, deadly poison, garrote
stone epoch
I do, but kinda only because I stuck with it so long already
remote drift
mostly to check if
balmy condor
But infinite dots need some special checks
dark vigil
isnt there some sort of thing you were talking about about mastery not affecting necrolords whispyr
balmy condor
Like in legion I remember they added some infinite thing
remote drift
you do not lose damage against pvp targets
balmy condor
And it stayed on a dummy for days
stone epoch
I just use it for cheap, reliable 2 cp on bosses, not much else
remote drift
when you die and activate heirmir top ability
fleet whale
in 9.0.5 sbs apparently is affected by mastery
dark vigil
is it noticeable enough
balmy condor
isnt there some sort of thing you were talking about about mastery not affecting...
Yeah, sbs doesn’t work with mastery atm, but does with zoldyck
There’s a pin on the subject
fleet whale
idk, mastery will likely still be a bad stat for sin
dark vigil
so about .5 behind
fleet whale
it's a buff for it
snow arch
I play necro — all of us don’t follow the herd
fleet whale
FC is receiving a big buff though
dark vigil
also night fae has korayn
fleet whale
but idk if FC alone is enough to go necro
fleet whale
idk, soulshape is nice though
dark vigil
just pop fleshcraft channel for a half sec
wonder how the fleshcraft change interacts with Plaguefall necro buff
with the consuming the special corpses
snow arch
10s of extra life is hilarious in rbg flag defense
dark vigil
since the one soulbind now
balmy condor
If necro does end up getting buffed with mastery
dark vigil
automatically consumes corpses
dark vigil
can you snapshot SBS with nightstalker/MA ?
remote drift
memes would ensue
balmy condor
No
dark vigil
sad
balmy condor
Nightstalker works on sbs
fleet whale
it looks like they are changing it, have to see how they iterate on flag
balmy condor
But it buffs the instant, not the dot