I can’t tell more about the fight as assa as I play it on outlaw and I feel is the spec to go on this boss
#assassination
mighty bolt
mighty bolt
Nice then
unreal parcel
Whisp, whats your consensus for pooling energy. I saw earlier you said you don't recommend it to people. I've been pooling as assass for years now so its something I'm use to.
Ie: during normal rotation; I know we try and pool for shiv.
balmy condor
during normal rotation it really doesn't matter
if you pool, cool
if not, cool
pooling for shiv is the only thing that's a gain of some sort
unreal parcel
you da best; that cleared it up for me
balmy condor
no problemo
median mango
Actually you can shiv on every pillar and after his first stomp between pillars
Feels so good how it lines up perfectly, love it
Oh that's literally what you said
Sorry just woke up. 😂 😂
flint arrow
Are you guys running crimson tempest or poison bomb in tyrannical week?
balmy condor
tempest
rapid tree
What slot would be best for Zol?
verbal mantle
legs
rapid tree
What talents would yall run for raiding?
balmy condor
3310021
verbal mantle
you can also 
for more insights
grave cove
Holy crap Assa rogue is now at the very bottom of the 95th percentile logs over the past week
The hell happened
strange python
are you guys below surv hunter now in single target
stoic needle
Also a lot of people who don't usually play sin are playing sin with suboptimal gear and affecting the results
grave cove
are you guys below surv hunter now in single target
Accordin to the logs ya
grave cove
Also a lot of people who don't usually play sin are playing sin with suboptimal ...
Hmm true, last week we had 51 parses now its around 1500
main forge
I totally have forgotten how to play Sin. I know I went into it and forgot about shiv. and I keep moving like I have 2x shadowstep at hand.... feels so slow to even move
Better question is why is sub rogue so far at the bottom now too...
balmy condor
bad sub tier and some specs getting 15% while it gets nothing
low girder
because it's overall and sub aoe/cleave is not good, try xymox and both sin and sub gain considerably
there's a whole lot of cleave all over the raid
vast forum
The question is why the fuck does a spec with virtually no aoe only get to be middle of the pack on st? Should actually be top 3 if there was any logic behind tuning
low girder
¯_(ツ)_/¯
main forge
sounds about right... I got purple parses on xymox the last few weeks, and hungering.... but have had shit parses on SLG and Council.
main forge
oh its because I am a bad player on that fight I know.
balmy condor
so you parsing poorly on a fight doesn't say shit about the actual spec balance
shadow helm
vigor still for m+ rite
frozen jasper
tempest
Oh i‘ve been using PB in tyrannical weeks for optimal ST, but i guess it‘s just what i prefer.. maybe higher aoe is a bigger gain even in tyrann. Gonna try that
faint harness
Also a lot of people who don't usually play sin are playing sin with suboptimal ...
People also finally did harder bosses as sin rogue
and those are not great for sin overall dps
Like killing sire etc, yea its good p3 but you will prob be bottom dps overall
ocean vault
!stats
prisma monolithBOT
**Shadowlands: ** Haste > Versatility => Critical Strike => Mastery
spice spire
What content are you doing Gar? Just general raid talents?
ocean vault
I'm just levelling my rogue alt atm but plan to do raid and m+ once I'm 60 again
spice spire
I see. So for raid it’s:
Blindside
Master assassin/subterfuge depending on fight (MA is highest ST simming)
Vigor
Cheat death
Lol doesn’t matter
Alacrity
Poison bomb
For M+ only major changes are elaborate planning on first row, subterfuge on second, Marked for death can be used on third but vigor is fine, and crimson tempest on last row
Hope that helps!
rough grove
Just do it!
cobalt pelican
rough grove
The screenshot police
hearty venture
I'm having a bit of trouble understanding the consumable chart on herodamage. Is shadowcore oil + shadowfire potion the best?
hearty venture
Or is it sharpening stone + agi pot?
Or something else. I dunno this is really confusing me lol
ocean vault
idk this is my first time playing rogue since legion
on my havoc dh I use shadowcore oil and shadowflame pots if it applies here ....
rough grove
Pretty sure it's Sharpening Stones and Shadowfire pot for single target still.
You could sim it to check, but you'll need the string to sim it I think?
verbal mantle
!oil
prisma monolithBOT
Using consumables will increase your damage, however the difference between oil/stone/potion combinations are very minor (within 0.5% of each other). You can sim the difference for yourself by pasting this pastebin underneath your /simc input, in the "advanced sim" section of raidbots: https://pastebin.com/0CnXcRR1
rough grove
Yeah that one that Dad just linked.
hearty venture
Ooo thanks
split maple
Settle something for me Sin rogue friends. With MA talented, what's the first skill to open with from stealth mut or ambush? Cause I've been hearing both but Ravenholdt says Mut right?
rough grove
Mutilate for the chance for 4 CPs
strange python
I believe it's mut so you can benefit from double ctits vs single crit with ambush
split maple
That's what I figured. Thanks.
hearty venture
@verbal mantle is this saying that food flask and weapon buff only increase 2 dps? https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/aVSGq7UB5SKoNkf7de5W5g
Cause that sounds very wrong
Hmm or I'm misunderstanding what the default is
Sim details say potion food and flask not used. I'm very confused
lapis jungle
So we dont even use CT on ST when below 30%?
high wagon
Does the effect of EP count only for abilities used during the effect or wpuld it apply to like dots already on targets?
spice spire
So we dont even use CT on ST when below 30%?
Correct. CT is a waste of combo points on ST even at sun 30
spice spire
Does the effect of EP count only for abilities used during the effect or wpuld i...
Only during the effect iirc, not 100% sure though. That’s definitely for a more well versed rogue
strange python
lmao ugh guys my guild was comparing 20 sec sims just for the lols and WOW it feels bad being a rogue right now
stoic needle
Only during the effect iirc, not 100% sure though. That’s definitely for a more ...
I'm pretty sure it applies to currently ticking dots as well
spice spire
Pretty sure it’s only in the timeframe and doesn’t snap tho
stoic needle
Yep
wary ice
Only during the effect iirc, not 100% sure though. That’s definitely for a more ...
its dynamic - ie: only effects if its up. ie: the first 4 seconds of a rupture will deal 10% more damage and if 8 seconds later you envenom the next 4 seconds of that rupture will deal 10% more damage as well
It also doesnt pandemic so its best to clip it with like .5-.1~ duration remaining
the only snapshots assa has are subt garrotes and any dot used from stealth with nightstalker
Also I'm like 90% sure that EP doesnt effect the envenom/CT instant damage that was used to proc it - but i might be misremembering that
spice spire
You’re forgetting the exsanguinate snapshot 
But that’s what I thought, thanks for the clarification
grave cove
!stats
prisma monolithBOT
**Shadowlands: ** Haste > Versatility => Critical Strike => Mastery
trim zinc
At sludgefist when do i vendetta??
Pull, 2 pillar and 4??
Or 1st pillar and 3rd one??
spice spire
When do you kill him?
If you go to all four pillars, pull, 2, 4. If you don’t make it to the fourth, 1st and 3rd
trim zinc
Ya whe nirmaly go to 4
Ty <3
spice spire
No problem 
wary ice
You’re forgetting the exsanguinate snapshot <:kekw:610125925413289985>
exsang snapshots haste not damage modifiers
spice spire
It’s also irrelevant for the next tier or so, that was a troll answer. But no, the rest is how I thought it worked, I just wasn’t 100% sure
whole dew
prisma monolithBOT
**Shadowlands: ** Haste > Versatility => Critical Strike => Mastery
median mango
3310021
Idk man, 3212321 not only looks better in the talent page but just sims better for me too
Prob because I don't have shriek or sire trinket
plain thistle
same thing as last expansion, subterfuge vs MA, those talents are not very impactful in single target
both are ok/good
median mango
Also finally got aotc as sin, sire actually feels really good for us. 😄
plain thistle
expect when we used SS last expansion, then the balance shifted towards subterfuge
drowsy hollow
I keep wanting to use Tiny Toxic Blade haha
wary ice
expect when we used SS last expansion, then the balance shifted towards subterfu...
and even then MA was the look for at least Battle for dazar
stoic needle
wary ice
it wasnt until "lol haste" that SS + Exsang+ sub started overtaking MA in ST significantly
plain thistle
nah, even before that, our lvl25 talent row is very weak
the difference between SS and MA is really small
wary ice
yeah thats what im saying
like subt vs MA was so close until corruption ruined everything
MA usually edged it out cause TBlade was so good w/ it
but the damage was always very close
plain thistle
it was more SS actually, ofc with corruption and exsanguinate that changed even more
plain thistle
but early in the expasion if you used SS, you would probably run subterfuge as well
wary ice
I enjoy Subt in dungeons cause I get to put out multiple garrotes
nothing quite like opening with 9 combo points :^)
plain thistle
and now without anything like that, the difference between both are almost inside the margin of error (for my gear)
stoic needle
MA is consistently a 15-20 dps upgrade for single target for me
How much crit do you have
plain thistle
24% ish
shy dust
MA usually edged it out cause TBlade was so good w/ it
even before wonky haste levels
into Nyalotha early MA would start losing to subterfugue before any expedient
drowsy hollow
I so wanna be a meme and make shiv my hardest hitting ability. 😄
stoic needle
It won't even be the hardest hitting with ttb
That's how bad that legendary is
It'll do a little more damage than ambush
strange python
do i swap to edgelord? 🤔
stoic needle
Nah the ability is still kinda shit and the soulbinds are also kinda shit
strange python
full bleed build though smh
drowsy hollow
being a good boy and making execute legendary
not sure why I like sin this expansion but I do
drowsy hollow
he means that serrated is another bleed
stoic needle
Doesn't count for any of our passives though
I thought he meant venthyr when he said edgelord lol
Necrolord is decent
The new fleshcraft is powerful and their soulbinds are actually decent as well
I really wish sbs worked with doomblade and zoldyck
drowsy hollow
Heirmir and a shaman is a silly combo
polar gate
Is assassination close to the other specs now after the buffs? (Especially for pve, M+ and Raiding)
spice spire
It’s close to sub, check the pins.
But it’s definitely below outlaw
polar gate
Thank you
trim zinc
making a doomblade legendary is a dumb decision??
celest drift
!bis
prisma monolithBOT
Whispyrs Bis list: http://tiny.cc/76r5tz
spice spire
Not if you want to pvp
trim zinc
ty ❤️
snow arch
I thought that sbs was benefiting from mastery on ptr
tender fjord
I thought that sbs was benefiting from mastery on ptr
Correct
They really gotta do something for necro rogues, the fk horde representative is Draka who is a rogue
And then we get a tickle spike
tender fjord
I literally only use it for the cheap combo points
snow arch
Yea I’ve grown to like sbs a lot. Just wish it did some damage too.
snow arch
It shows up on my logs in CN, not too terrible
tender fjord
In pvp it did quite well
royal lantern
but who cares about pvp
tender fjord
But agreed that overal in pve the covs are close
royal lantern
mate
trust me
most people dont care about pvp
they feel " forced" too do it for gear
halcyon grail
I.... Enjoy PvP.
tender fjord
I think it’s the most fun game mode
fleet whale
someone was arguing with me on reddit that apparently being able to target weapons in pvp
isn't a gearing advantage lol
snow arch
Arena is in a bad place for plebs like me. 1650 is my plateau and I’ve had my fill.
azure carbon
Those people are just PvP players who are mad at Blizzard making them PvE for weapons and being happy they didn't get she short end of the stick for once.
fleet whale
problem is RBG ratings
tender fjord
someone was arguing with me on reddit that apparently being able to target weapo...
You still have to back it up with being better than the majority of the player base if you want it at a competetive ilvl
tender fjord
RBG’s are like a casino yes
With that I disagree strongly
It is easier than arena
tender fjord
But still not easy to reach 1800 or god forbid 233 ilvl
snow arch
First pvp vault and getting a weapon was such a farce
pale dew
yes 2v2s and 3s nowadays is hard to push
Imo that's why its easier than ever.
The amount of pve heads in pvp right now is so high
These guys can't pvp for the life of them. And their gear isn't an advantage like prior exps
royal lantern
acting as if you need working braincells too play all the fotm classes in pvp lol
azure carbon
We're aware we can't PvP. Thats why we grouchy about the gearing systems, lol.
strange python
I'm so confused
We just had a discussion in pvp that says otherwise.
Unless I'm reading your statement wrong.
strange python
why not lmfao
pseudo hamlet
I saw some TOP rogues in r.io using poisoned katar instead of WPS/LP, what do you think think about that?
fleet whale
and apparently one guy in reddit told me that if you are wearing full pvp gear
you will barely do more dps than tanks lol
strange python
sorta true though I think
royal lantern
........what
fleet whale
uhh no lol
strange python
it's bis for like
fleet whale
unless if you are wearing pvp trinkets
strange python
subtlety and windwalker
royal lantern
if you play outlaw, you technacly pvp gear in all slots lol
fleet whale
and even if it's not bis
royal lantern
cus its so vers heavy
fleet whale
secondaries aren't at a point for any spec
fleet whale
to tank your damage so hard for carrying so much vers
royal lantern
secondaries aren't at a point for any spec
dont tell people that
they still dont understand how stats work lel
fleet whale
it's amazing how many players still think scaling is a thing
shy dust
These guys can't pvp for the life of them. And their gear isn't an advantage lik...
Wouldnt gear be more of an advantage now than previously
Due to no ilvl scaling in arena.
pale dew
Wouldnt gear be more of an advantage now than previously
Last exp pve heads could run through arenas simply due to gear there was no pvp loot system like the current so pvpers were way behind in terms of raw power
strange python
huh
shy dust
except there was scaling
pale dew
Kings rest sword anyone ??
shy dust
Yes but there was scaling
strange python
pvp'ers did m+ for their loot and then ran it down in pvp
also corruption was a big factor, if not the biggest factor
shy dust
There is no longer any scaling
strange python
No one was pvp'ing last expansion either.
it wasn't flooded with tons of people.
like it is now. RBGs were dead.
arenas were dead.
now it's alive because people grinding for 7 ilvl.
fleet whale
you know why pvp is so popular in SL right?
strange python
best way to get geared 😂
warm portal
does Korayn First Strike proc after vanish ?
stoic needle
no
arctic light
it's assa good for pve after the buff? i've played assa since i started playing wow, and now i'm outlaw cuz "it's the best". i wanna go back to assa if i can deal as much dps as outlaw for >+15 keys
arctic light
uff.. outlaw is so annoying. u just depend on the luck
median mango
Yeah I am not touching that
But I also won't touch like +20's any time soon
So I am hard vibing with sin
arctic light
haha
yea, i see. i'm gonna farm for an m+ legendary to try it out
zoldyck should be the best, right?
wary ice
outlaw rng is the lowest its ever been
arctic light
ikr?
wary ice
and in bfa it was under the disparity of a fire mage's crit rng
outlaw rng hasnt really been a thing since legion
arctic light
in bfa as assa i was way above the outlaws in my groups
royal lantern
outlaw has rng
but like
all specs have,and its not like some people act it is
you have those bigbrains that think outlaw=you do random dmg every pull cus MUH RTB ROLLS
ofc it has a higher varirity then the other 2 rogue specs, but not as extrem as some people act it is
shy dust
just the spec has a lot of built in variance
and from just looking at charts
its the highest variance
strange python
sorry random insert "i hate outlaw with a passion" lmfao
strange python
I don't hate it.
I hate that it's been loved while the other specs are borderline dying.
royal lantern
outlaw and loved?
its litearlly just lucky with the current tuning lol
rogue as a howl got ignored
the "love" outlaw got was" here BF has a higher uptime now and RtB has a cd"
thats all the "love" it got
raven locust
Anyone notice Count the Odds is working for Assassination Ambush?
royal lantern
blizz didnt gave rogue proper attention for the entrie alpha/beta
strange python
i mean yeah they have more than one class to work on.
but rolling rogue and getting shit on for it doesn't feel good.
royal lantern
uhm,i mean
we can argure about that
rogue had broken shit for ages on alpha/beta(some stuff is still broken)
meanwhile spriest got 3reworks
and druid had a bluepost 2x a week lmao
placid dawn
on first boss of ToP, should i be interrupting most casts or is interrupting the telport and the searing death enough?
balmy condor
should be kicking pretty much everything
spice spire
When it doubt, kick it.
stoic needle
Anyone notice Count the Odds is working for Assassination Ambush?
yes but we don't get any benefit from most of the buffs
mental wing
dunno tryed assa today in the raid and it was pretty strong with PI. But its not as fun as sub i guess. I mean on Destroyer Rank 5 and Shriek Rank 2 is cool and all. But i kinda dunno about the spec
Spec is fine tho if you like it. Dmg ist more than enough
pliant apex
sub and fun? how can you have fun when its so hard
deft vault
Last row of niya soulbind. The herbs one where healing has a chance to give you haste. Can it proc off of leech??
pliant apex
mechanics and rotation with sub is fail , for most casuals, like me
balmy condor
Last row of niya soulbind. The herbs one where healing has a chance to give you...
yes, also off of passive health regen
has around a 60% uptime
deft vault
noice
wary ice
I believe it also procs off recuperator, no?
wary ice
sidebar that i should know at this point
Does assa's rank 2 SnD increase energy gen or attack speed? IDR which they settled on
stoic needle
And gives both for us
pseudo hamlet
Skulker wing, ooze, phial 223-226, what do you guys think? Sim's saying phial/skulker by 20 DPS. Not sure if it's worth another keybind 😛
balmy condor
would probably do phial skulker as well
but I know a lot of people avoid skulker
because it's buggy
if it's only 20 dps, probably not unreasonable to take the ooze instead
pseudo hamlet
Yeah, had the heroic version of it and it made me attack the oozes in DoS(the ones in the mechagon like area)
stoic needle
Phial ooze because fuck skulker's
wary ice
i hate that skulkers is good because god damn does it just not work half the time :^(
buoyant juniper
any1 use a debuff tracker addon/weak aura for assassination? ideally to track bleeds/poisons on different targets?
wary ice
I use KUI nameplates and seliathan's WAs with some customizations
Seli has his wa's on his stream
IDK how updated his Assa ones are
balmy condor
I would suggest nameplates for that as well
fiery fable
is assa better than sub rn in pve?
spice spire
Yeah. I definitely need to get my nameplates updated because 
only works for so long 
wary ice
is assa better than sub rn in pve?
about equal I'd say
sub probably better overall but harder to play; assa has really strong execute and consistent damage
OUtlaw is probably the spec of choice if you're looking to play rogue soley for performance
fiery fable
and in pvp its best to play sub right? or can assa be sorta viable again?
wary ice
and in pvp its best to play sub right? or can assa be sorta viable again?
assa burst is fat from what I've heard
frankly i think the control of subtlety is too much to give up
#pvp has better info on that front tbh
fiery fable
ok cool thanks!
spice spire
The boy Keknis has taught me the ways of the burst in PvP
stoic needle
sin burst is g i g a
icy crater
sin burst with meme build is actually giga in pvp
misty holly
Do you have to be Kyrian for that?
rapid lance
Is serrated bone spike any good for raiding with sin?
balmy condor
necro is the worst covenant, but that's not saying much considering they're all within 3%
rapid lance
Hmm thought maybe there'd be more value in not having to reapply it along with the other sin DoTs while dealing with mechanics
balmy condor
well you still cast it
reapplications give free cp and damage
but I don't really see how not having to reapply something makes it good
if anything, that would make it worse
muted maple
necro buffs your party members mainstat so thats kinda nice
balmy condor
not worth tho
vestal wren
you can game it for fun
even if there is no damage win it feels better to play around it
buoyant juniper
I use KUI nameplates and seliathan's WAs with some customizations
Ty! this works 🙂
torpid spoke
native marten
can someone go over the assassination opener for single target raid fight
balmy condor
whats confusing you
native marten
the subterfuge opener
balmy condor
mutilate
shy dust
It’s better
balmy condor
ambush gives less cp
stone epoch
Gets your slice and dice going longer earlier in the rotation
native marten
when should i refresh slice and dice
native marten
im bringing my rogue to my guilds alt raid tonight and tryin to not fuck up, when should i use my potion too
balmy condor
with your cds, like any other potion
native marten
so with vendetta then?
balmy condor
yeh
native marten
in that spot on the IV guide with vanish garrotte i assume press mutilate as well before subterfuge runs out again?
balmy condor
yes, the only time you hit ambush is with a blindside proc
native marten
alright
ill keep hitting trainin dummies
whats the pandemic time on SnD @balmy condor
balmy condor
30% of the duration new dot being applied, like every other pandemic timer ;)
balmy condor
it's like that for boomy dots too
balmy condor
ye
native marten
outside of opener then its just about maintaing garrote/rupture/SnD and using envenom when you can
?
native marten
sepsis on CD as well yea?
balmy condor
yep
native marten
ty for the help
fringe prairie
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's:
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
rocky plover
I really wish sbs worked with doomblade and zoldyck
I'm Necro and SBS work with Zoldyck for dommblade idk and its look like my mastery affect SBS to
balmy condor
mastery doesn't affect sbs until 9.0.5
also like 95% sure it doesn't work with zold
but I can double check real quick
rocky plover
yeah i saw on ping , but in other spec my dot sbs hit a 200 and when i am on sin its it around 260 and i have 25% mastery , so idk
heavy vessel
Is Flagellation getting a rework?
balmy condor
yes
rocky plover
and i check for zoldyck my dot hits more under 30% around 350
balmy condor
yeah i saw on ping , but in other spec my dot sbs hit a 200 and when i am on sin...
yeah just checked, does not work with zold
heavy vessel
Have they said what? Like not taking 2 globals to get a buff? Like not missing out on the buff if you miss the second press?
balmy condor
Have they said what? Like not taking 2 globals to get a buff? Like not missing o...
you press button, it does damage, then increases your attack range
rocky plover
Well if not im confused
heavy vessel
Hopefully it includes ability range too, not just AA. Iirc there’s a torg power that increases aa range but not ability range
strange python
I wonder if new flag will be good
or if we'll just have to wait till they change it into "reskinned kingsbane"
balmy condor
Hopefully it includes ability range too, not just AA. Iirc there’s a torg power ...
I think it's all
rocky plover
You are rly sure @balmy condor ? i just test again hit at 274 and under 30% 357
heavy vessel
I think it's all
sure hope so, that anima power is super troll
balmy condor
You are rly sure <@!167090536602140682> ? i just test again hit at 274 and unde...
I'll look again
balmy condor
You are rly sure <@!167090536602140682> ? i just test again hit at 274 and unde...
hm, actually seems like it might
might be a missed hotfix change
rocky plover
okay
rocky plover
and same for the SBS dot , he its harder when i am sin
and the diff damage is coherent with my mastery
balmy condor
I can check mastery as well real quick
strange python
I'm holding out hope sin gets a real rework by 9.1 and becomes great again or is that just a pipe dream 
balmy condor
and the diff damage is coherent with my mastery
mastery currently not affecting either
is there a way for you to increase/decrease your mastery and log that for me?
might be that the mastery change is on live already
rocky plover
hum , a log like warcraft log or raidbot ?
balmy condor
warcraftlog
I just tested on raidbots
that's what that sim is
would have to keep the same ilvl ideally
rocky plover
Im not taking my log myself , i go check if i was some log with different gear
rocky plover
yeah logic
balmy condor
thanks
balmy condor
and the diff damage is coherent with my mastery
I did some napkin math, it seems to me like it might be the aura, not mastery specifically
the damage between necro sin rogues is consistent
the mastery change shouldn't be in until 9.0.5
dark vigil
hmm
yeah mastery would be nice to make necro better
its already competitive
bonesmith has that crit thing and emeni has ways u can have a consistent agi buff and give it to some teammates too
rocky plover
The aura who was up by recent up on sin ?
balmy condor
what?
balmy condor
it doesn't change your rotation
rocky plover
hum whats the "aura" ?
dark vigil
what are u saying man
balmy condor
each spec has a hidden multiplier to all its damage
so sin has gotten 3 aura buffs since it went live
dark vigil
The aura who was up by recent up on sin ?
this is so broken english i dont know what u mean
rocky plover
yes sry
balmy condor
so while sbs does lets say 100 damage
if sin does 50% more damage
and sub does 20% more damage
rocky plover
okay its what i was talking
balmy condor
because of how the auras are tuned
then sin's sbs will do more damage baseline compared to sub's
I think that's what you're seeing right now
and not the mastery
rocky plover
yep its look logic for me thx
shy dust
I'm holding out hope sin gets a real rework by 9.1 and becomes great again or is...
A rework to what
You could juice the numbers and sin would then be considered very good
dark vigil
sin has a really strong execute phase with execute legendary
if you check logs of high end kills you'll see sin top 2-3 dmg at 30% or lower hp
and they're never pi'd either
and since most of the good rogue players are playing outlaw typically or sub, its even more prevalent
balmy condor
those same good rogues are playing sin on mythic denathrius
dark vigil
some are
balmy condor
so you can see the execute there
balmy condor
mhm
shy dust
and since most of the good rogue players are playing outlaw typically or sub, it...
Guess im bad
dark vigil
its not even that like
its the same thing with feral in a way
feral is doing really good but it's probably even better than it shows overall on logs because a lot more competitive players are playing boomy instead
balmy condor
Guess im bad
and seli and miki 
shy dust
I would say the pool of players who have killed M sire as sin are pretty squarely above average
dark vigil
for sure but its the same thing
5 parses is bad data to go off of
couldve messed up. couldve died
like
theres so many variables
for 5 parses
strange silo
Hey im pretty new to rogue and i have a stupid question the empowered garrote is just that it has a silence right? or is there some dmg up that i want to use it while stealth?
dark vigil
thers a talent that makes you want to open up with it from stealth
balmy condor
Hey im pretty new to rogue and i have a stupid question the empowered garrote is...
subterfuge gives your garrote damage
dark vigil
^
strange silo
ahh i see mb sry should read the talents better... 😄 but that explains a lot
drowsy pond
!guide
prisma monolithBOT
drowsy pond
does MA affect rupture at all?
balmy condor
yes, it gives crit for the duration
raven locust
It doesn't snapshot if thats what you were curious about
drowsy pond
yeah i knew that
i just dont know if im supposed to refresh rupture during my vanish window if not necessary
strange silo
Ok one more stupid the execute threshold show because we can get the execute lego right? or does sin have a natural execute?
balmy condor
blindside technically
crimson palm
Who would win, 1 assa rogue or 10 kangaroos?
willow rain
two quick questions. are we running EP or Blindside for tyrannical? and also, how important is keeping up Crimson Temp on the bosses, last on the priority? thank you
crimson palm
never crimson tempest single target
Wdym
willow rain
ep in dungeons always
thank you.
balmy condor
if you are standing
in front of a dungeon boss
and it's just that boss
you do not press the crimson tempest button
crimson palm
crimson palm
But its nice and makes knives float around u
balmy condor
crimson palm
UwU
echo cargo
You actually don't use CT in your ST rotation?
crimson palm
Ye what a pleb
crimson palm
Green name made him toxic
echo cargo
Lmao
echo cargo
So if you look at the rotation your sim is based on, and it includes CT, it's actually incorrect?
sacred yarrow
echo cargo
Or it's losing more damage than it should be by using it I guess?
slow marsh
!bis
prisma monolithBOT
Whispyrs Bis list: http://tiny.cc/76r5tz
balmy condor
does it seriously use tempest on 1 target
there's a check on tempest for 2 targets I'm pretty sure
would be floored
slow marsh
Is it only including CT in execute?
Cuz that would somewhat make sense but still not really
echo cargo
No
balmy condor
there used to be a line for single target CT during 8.3
hold on
I'll take a look
and come back
crimson palm
Isnt it more dmg than envemom
safe pendant
But whispyr has a cute name with a cute anime girl picture. That can't be toxic
slow marsh
Not when you factor in envenom poison application
balmy condor
But whispyr has a cute name with a cute anime girl picture. That can't be toxic
fuck you
echo cargo
WOAH
safe pendant
See? You can't take anything mean from that
native marten
sharpening stone or shadowcore oil?
balmy condor
sharpening stone or shadowcore oil?
!oil
prisma monolithBOT
Using consumables will increase your damage, however the difference between oil/stone/potion combinations are very minor (within 0.5% of each other). You can sim the difference for yourself by pasting this pastebin underneath your /simc input, in the "advanced sim" section of raidbots: https://pastebin.com/0CnXcRR1
crimson palm
crimson palm
!naviopener
vital haven
you are a lie
crimson palm
No u
vital haven
boom
echo cargo
Sim is lie then though because on any duration of ST it'll still tell you to put CT in your rotation (at least in my case)
vital haven
true 
balmy condor
Sim is lie then though because on any duration of ST it'll still tell you to put...
well that means the sim is wrong
cause I just linked a sim
where it's a gain to not CT
echo cargo
Yes sir
crimson palm
How much did u bribe ur guild to kill sludgr nairda
crimson palm
Oh ur a gentleman i see
echo cargo
Just going to conveniently ignore that DS is giving me a 10 dps increase over Vig 
slow marsh
Why are your sims so weird lol
balmy condor
I wish you hadn't mentioned the CT single target thing
what a fucking mess
the more I look into it the more my eyes cross
slow marsh
I just ran a few quick sims to compare and the only time CT is better is if there are 3 targets. Not even an increase with just 2
split maple
anyone got that pastebin link with the custom script to find out if oils or stones or the combo is better. I had it this morning but lost it.
balmy condor
anyone got that pastebin link with the custom script to find out if oils or ston...
!oil
prisma monolithBOT
Using consumables will increase your damage, however the difference between oil/stone/potion combinations are very minor (within 0.5% of each other). You can sim the difference for yourself by pasting this pastebin underneath your /simc input, in the "advanced sim" section of raidbots: https://pastebin.com/0CnXcRR1
split maple
oh sweet its on macro. thanks whispyr
balmy condor
no problem
echo cargo
lmao i'm sorry whisp xD
the only reason I even went into it is because I remember doing some 40s - 2 min sims for various m+ bosses and noticed it was having a significant uptime on CT
and I was like uhhh, I remember that not being the case previously in BFA before Nya
balmy condor
yeah
I would hate
if CT single target
is an actual thing
it was already disgusting in nya
but with this level of haste I would feel really dirty
echo cargo
I'd like it if it was significantly better because PB feels like a waste of class space/design
but if it was like a 50 dps increase i'd kill myself
lmao
balmy condor
well in single target specifically, poison bomb is definitely better
but the yucky thing here is specifically single target when you have CT talented
echo cargo
Yeah, totally
balmy condor
which covenant should I pick for assassination
they're all very close, but "optimal" would be fae at the moment
ocean vault
so out of curiosity is that only good at high renown?
hushed sphinx
Also soul shape is pog
balmy condor
with the necro mastery changes in 9.0.5 (and thus, zoldyck), they would all end up around 1.5-2% within each other
balmy condor
so out of curiosity is that only good at high renown?
yes
balmy condor
kyrian
ocean vault
figured, that combo point thing sounded nice
balmy condor
yeah it's actually mostly soulbind/ability related
the combo point thing isn't really that big
balmy condor
korayn in m+ and niya in single target usually
but you can sim yourself, and swap soulbinds at any time
so I wouldn't worry too much
ocean vault
man you gotta get far into the campaign for this
balmy condor
it's all unlocked at this point
should be able to catch up to end of campaign in maybe a week or 2 of casual playing
ocean vault
I'm just gonna grind through the campaing tonight
alpine oasis
I think it took me 2 weeks to catch up about 1 week ago
ocean vault
well, just an alt so it's a good idea for the gear at least
sin is so fun
it's unfortunate that it's not performing as well as outlul
pliant apex
for ST i want niys tools burrs?
like raid?
or should i go with lethal poisons and niya tolls poisons?
balmy condor
sim it
mental wing
Go with burrs
balmy condor
usually burrs
pliant apex
ty whisp, ill sim it anyway
umm how do i sim conduits on raidbots? it doesnt show up under gear compare
balmy condor
top gear
pliant apex
ty
strange python
this is one of the sexiest statements you can use on this disc
rain mortar
Been a few months since I’ve checked - is assassination any closer to being viable in m+ or raid? Benched myself on rogue until I can’t at least play Ass as a middle of the road spec and not bottom tier
balmy condor
it's as viable as sub
dark vigil
doesnt assa push a bit further than sub on cleave
not sure
black powder with that legendary is pretty good
but shuriken is kinda meh
faint harness
you dont black powder on cleave
ocean vault
okay new question for the lovely rogue friends here
do you garrote multiple targets on cleave
balmy condor
yes
spice spire
On ST it’s SnD > Rupture > envenom
ocean vault
and on cleave it won't matter so much right?
dark vigil
slice and dice 100% maintained even on cleave
ocean vault
so cleave would be SnD > Crimson Tempest > Rupture
do you guys run crimson tempest on raid fights like huntsman inerva, slg etc (any add spawn fights)
dark vigil
slg yes
most still use poison bomb for huntsman
almost everyone uses poison bomb still for inerva
poison bomb has some cleave built into it so its pretty okay still
does prey on the weak work for huntsman if you stun barghast spirits before he gets a cast off?
fallow otter
Heroic or mythic
dark vigil
both. you can stun the dogs to stop the casts in all difficulties
im talking about when u pull them in and start dpsing them
and sometimes if they dont burn fast enough you gotta stop the casts with stuns
does it count as a disable for prey on the weak
fallow otter
both. you can stun the dogs to stop the casts in all difficulties
Well in mythic it's a dps race so it's more likely you just go bomb and focus on the boss
fallow otter
You guys are having issues killing the shades?
dark vigil
is there anything else in cn that can get stunned i cant recall
soul infusers, shades of barghast
dark vigil
yeah
how do we get bloodmallet to change talent on hectic add cleave
its using poison bomb and not ct
dark vigil
because
fallow otter
strange python
bloodmallet and such are kinda meh
bad even if you're using them in place of a sim
pliant apex
not really it told me correctly what conduits are best for me, sims proved so
strange python
no
the sims gave you accurate info that bloodmallets baseline "theoretical character" just HAPPENED to line up with
that's not the same as it giving you accurate information
pliant apex
lol okay, you argue for the sake of arguing
strange python
it's not
dark vigil
simming yourself is more accurate
strange python
there is a very significant difference there
dark vigil
i just wanted to know why bloodmallet didnt have correct talents for hectic add cleave
strange python
secondary stats are a really good example
dark vigil
several specs have stuff like that
and it makes it seem worse than it really is
which drives down community perception
pliant apex
well im just a casual noob
strange python
casual or not
seeking accurate info is always better
slow marsh
I mean if your raid lead doesn't actually know about stuff and is basing it off bloodmallet then maybe you should get a new guild
stoic needle
you dont run CT on any fights in CN
hollow escarp
sun king 
hollow escarp
I always hated those fights
Eonar as well
they don't count to all stars but still sucks to not have a nice color there
fleet whale
so what is your preferred order for council on heroic?
hollow escarp
we do frieda, nik, stav 
fleet whale
idk, we got the boss down
but i feel like a lot of my team struggles with link from stav
hollow escarp
I did like 2 or 3 rotations so far
fleet whale
and the tanks sometimes have issues with the lunge
stoic needle
the aoe that frieda does if you save her for last kills more people than the adds in my experience
hollow escarp
the ads that throw food are so easy
or felt at least
council and inverva are 2 fights that I don't really understand how they work
I just know what to do myself
fleet whale
well inverva if you don't have to worry about the canisters
most of it is out of your control
other than dpsing hard enough
pseudo spire
I've read the pins and a few guides. So for assassination, is the best covenant NF or Kyrian?
solid mica
do you actually run vigor in sin?
i see on icy veins but it's butt on other specs wasn't sure
balmy condor
you do, yes
spice spire
My guild (heroic) does stav > nik > frieda
Stav creates too many problems for an uncoordinated larger group. Ads suck to deal with.
So then we just move when frida casts her shit and nuke her
fallow otter
I actually can't remember what we used to do for heroic lol
I know we did a few different orders
First one we did was the one where we had to burst attendant at the end or we got no where to stand, I think this is by far the hardest lol
solid mica
just figured out how to check pinned msgs thx
i see scoundrel is rec'd for ST, if I'm crafting just 1 leggo for assassination but it's mainly ST would u still go scoundrel? I have MA as well
solid mica
that's what I saw on icy, but the pinned messages here say scoundrel for ST?
balmy condor
scoundrel sims slightly higher for single target
but it's not worth the loss in aoe
nor is it worth the loss in damage profile that zold gives you
stoic needle
how much crit on our poisons do you think dashing would have to give to make casting envenom a gain in aoe
balmy condor
100% wouldn't be enough
stoic needle
seriously? jeez
slow marsh
patchwerk takes into account execute phase too right?
faint harness
Yes bruv
gleaming eagle
MA is for pvp
theres a neat trick sin can do with MA but that requires offensive vanishing
for m+ raid best one is zoldyk
cause for m+ and raid you probably want to use crimson tempest
strange python
definitely not for raid
dark vigil
yeah u dont use crimson tempst in any fight
at cn
better off doing multiple ruptures and getting poison bomb procs
daring plover
huntsman slg 🤷🏾♂️
daring plover
❌
slow marsh
You only use CT in m+.
Unless you want to use a tome to clear trash with CT then swap back for bosses
But who would ever do that
strange python
it could potentially be worth for mythic SLG? maybe... if you're determined to use sin for them
stoic needle
you need 2 targets up 100% of the time for CT to be worth it
dark vigil
i'd say huntsman is probably the best boss for ct
but even then i think poison bomb outdoes it
unsure
stoic needle
it does imo
there's enough points where you single target things, either the shades or huntsman himself that you wanna run pb
drowsy hollow
The utility part of me wants to run master poisoner in keys to make numbing poison better haha
drowsy hollow
3% attack slow. 😄
dark vigil
if ct was strong enough you'd run it more when theres more mobs
like generals and huntsman and shit
meager steppe
Is assa worth playing by now compared to sub?
balmy condor
For sire definitely
drowsy hollow
If you prefer the spec, sure
balmy condor
It’s about the same
dark vigil
sin pulls ahead in m+ i think ? dont quote me on that
balmy condor
yeah, and u d
Most people don’t
daring plover
should then
daring plover
if playing optimally doesnt matter to someone then sure
balmy condor
Well according to 95% of the people that have killed it, it isn’t optimal
So I’m gonna go with my own intuition, and the intuition of the majority over you
daring plover
which is why all of those people do suboptimal dmg
balmy condor
daring plover
CT is ofc gonna be harder to play
balmy condor
I don’t think those words mean what you think it means
Why do you think CT is that much better
daring plover
dogs are in execute a good amount of time
dark vigil
yep
balmy condor
That’s not actually how that works
It’s still 30% of the fight
I don’t think CT is bad by any means
I’m just not convinced that it’s going to be huge
I’ll try it next raid though, cause I’ve been curious about it
mental igloo
!leggo
drowsy hollow
not that that matters at this point with twisting
mental igloo
Haste/Crit right?
dark vigil
yep
mental igloo
That Venomous Wounds :chefkiss:
dark vigil
venemous wounds?
balmy condor
You new here aren’t you
dark vigil
its almsot 2 am
balmy condor
stoic needle
I've tried ct on huntsman
It's not worth it because of the last phase where the dogs are dead you don't cast it at all
dark vigil
^^
dark vigil
only place where it'd be reasonable is maybe sun king if ur group really needs that extra cleave and then maybe slg
balmy condor
I don’t think that’s the reasoning
balmy condor
When all 3 dogs die, that last phase is like 20-30 seconds too
But that’s nowhere near long
stoic needle
There's all the other periods when you have to switch to shades where you aren't casting it as well
dark vigil
you'd want to use it on shades
stoic needle
Idts
dark vigil
plus i see so few people using cheap shot talent on huntsman
10% dmg increase to shades
daring plover
dark vigil
when you pull them in
stoic needle
You don't use it single target and if it's next to another shade you are just breaking cc
balmy condor
I think CT is fine
dark vigil
they're probably super competitve
balmy condor
But again, I’m not sure it’s great
dark vigil
and pb is just more reliable
balmy condor
Pb is unreliable though
balmy condor
Sure
dark vigil
instead of having to worry about timing it with dogs, tanks being bad at bringing them in
idk
cosmic trail
where do you get the cloakked in shadows conduit?
cosmic trail
The ones I need are well placed steel, cloakced in shadows and septis shock
dark vigil
sepsis conduits are from callings and worlb oss
well placed steel is from uhh
de other side
can get ilvl 200 conduit from a +7
minimum
the fan of knives one is from theater of pain
also im pretty sure the conduit for lethal poisons is better than conduit for covenant ability
someone correct me though
also if ur night fae and goign niya you'll only have 1 potency since you'll go burrs
korayn with fan of knives conduit and first strike for m+