assassination

[vital sorrel]

So how is assassination looking compared to the other rogue specs after the hotfixes?

[real solar]

does shiv not show on logs

for timeline

casts

[low girder]

no, combat log doesn't track it properly so WCL can't show them

only by dmg instances

[real solar]

fair enough

!guide

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
RH: https://www.ravenholdt.net/guides/assassination-rogue-guide-shadowlands-raid-dps/
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide

[primal gazelle]

@icy crater thats a nice burst for a cheese 1 shot build

id argue that subterfuge is too important to give up tho

[real solar]

Do we ambush or mutilate from stealth with MA

RH guide says mutilate, some logs do ambush

[shy dust]

well what does the guide say

How many CP does a mut crit give

pretty sure you only ambush with proc

you dont even ambush from the sepsis proc

[primal gazelle]

mut gives 4 cp on crit

ambush gives 3

[shy dust]

Yeah was just trying to give some context

[real solar]

Ye, that's what I thought. All these sin rogue logs are awful to look at

lmao

Was just double checking

[balmy condor]

the APL still ambushes from sepsis, but it's completely neutral from the looks of it

koji's sims have it up like 10 dps

[shy dust]

Ah

[balmy condor]

mine have it down 10 dps

its some weird stat thing

so you can either ambush or mut the sepsis proc

but from stealth, you do not ambush

[shy dust]

And yeah Most people playing sin beforehand were not the best on average

[stoic needle]

mind sharing the line for mut with sepsis? i'd like to see how mine sims

[balmy condor]

it's not the mut line

you change the ambush line to only use on blindside

[pulsar coral]

what does a master assassin + subterfuge opener look like?

master assassin legendary* not talent

[balmy condor]

gar mut snd mut

[primal gazelle]

when do you use ambush

or never?

[loud kelp]

assassin for pvp is haste>versa?

[plain thistle]

probably the other way around

versa > haste

[loud kelp]

k

ty

[plain thistle]

not sure if for the "burst" build mastery isnt better

[sonic iris]

which covenants are best for pvp

[plain thistle]

nightfae or kyrian, both are fine

people like nightfae in arenas because its easier to reset

[balmy condor]

with blindside

[short hamlet]

What's a "very good" haste % for sin right now?

[pulsar coral]

with mark of the master assassin, i assume it's build cp->vanish->envenom->mut (or ambush proc)->envenom?

if you're talented into subterfuge, should i work a garrote in there?

[primal gazelle]

idk but i have 10% haste and it feels terrible

[balmy condor]

#assassination message

[pulsar coral]

yeah i saw that for the opener, but even when vanishing in the middle of the rotation?

[balmy condor]

yes

[inland sigil]

Crimson Tempest not refreshing Alacrity is a bug right?

[dense hamlet]

it should be

it should count even slice does

[wide bolt]

probably bugged because CT is a talent

like it wasnt programmed correctly or something if that makes sense

[dense hamlet]

yeah and this game is dumb

[inland sigil]

i reported it day 1 and still in the game when i tested briefly now

[dense hamlet]

i mean

the stealth bug with sepsis is in the game still

so why wouldnt that be

they just dont care

w/e 😦

[inland sigil]

sad

[balmy condor]

yeah they don't fix bugs in 1 day

it takes them like

months

see: finality and BP not functioning correctly, and getting fixed, which was actually a new bug

[dense hamlet]

• if u didnt know theres a bug with xuen that destealths u

https://clips.twitch.tv/NastyAmorphousSashimiKappaClaus can watch this for explanation

its so dumb man this game is still at beta

[obtuse robin]

dont know if anyone asked this yet but do bleeds and poisons trigger burrs

[balmy condor]

procs on cast

[obtuse robin]

makes sense otherwise would be broken

[balmy condor]

the last hit of sepsis also used to proc seal fate, not sure if they fixed that

which is hilarious

[dense hamlet]

idk if they have fixed anything in this game tbh

[balmy condor]

they've fixed a ton of stuff

[dense hamlet]

yeah and they leave a ton nack too

b

like these random stleath breakers are bad

like thres one more that s preist ghost animation breaks ur stealth

[balmy condor]

meh

pvp

don't care

[dense hamlet]

yeah i guess so

• i didnt even know theres a bug with ct not working with alacrity

[balmy condor]

they could just remove all pvp overnight, and my gameplay would not be impacted

[dense hamlet]

till now

[balmy condor]

[dense hamlet]

well its fun tho

[stoic needle]

smh

[dense hamlet]

sometimes atleast

[stoic needle]

pve andys

deleting someone with envenom mfd envenom will never not be fun

[balmy condor]

weird way to spell "infuriating"

[dense hamlet]

someitmes that happens aswell

[stoic needle]

i mean wow pve is infuriating too

[dense hamlet]

but if ur in the mood

its fun

[balmy condor]

I'm more of just a sim andy

I unironically have more fun simming than I do actually playing the game sometimes

[dense hamlet]

wat

u like numbers or what

[balmy condor]

yeh

[dense hamlet]

yeah i wouldve guessed

[balmy condor]

what gave it away

[dense hamlet]

everything xd

[balmy condor]

damn

[gritty solstice]

so guys

u think the 5% buff is gonna put us in m+ top 5

[frail fossil]

no lol

[gritty solstice]

o well

[dense hamlet]

yeah i dont think it puts it anywhere near that

[gritty solstice]

back to the bench i guess

[dense hamlet]

yeah

[balmy condor]

zold

[wide bolt]

still zold

lots of execute in dungeons

[dense hamlet]

mabe more 5%s coming next week poggers?

[balmy condor]

no

[dense hamlet]

yeah idont think so aswell

[balmy condor]

if we get another 5%

I would be floored

[gritty solstice]

i mean i dont even know how many 5's will take for us to feel Bfa kinda strong

[balmy condor]

cause then they're actually just putting sub back in the dirt

[viral iris]

u recommend building zol for first assas leggo? dont have the soul ash for both dashing and zol

[balmy condor]

yes

[errant hull]

sub had its 5 seconds of fame now blizzard is mad that they're doing well

[obtuse robin]

ok well are auto attks considered casts cuz they are triggering burrs

[balmy condor]

I recommend building zold as your only assas lego

[balmy condor]

no

[sleek sparrow]

Sub is like demo lock, they dont want people playing it for more than a month

[viral iris]

kk thank you

[balmy condor]

but auto's are weird like that

[obtuse robin]

i c

[balmy condor]

wouldn't really matter either way

burrs is rppm

[dense hamlet]

so burrs can proc from throwing knifes and stuff yes?

[balmy condor]

so regardless of what procs and doesn't proc

is pretty much irrelevant

[dense hamlet]

man like u have to be so into the playstyle of pets and pets and pets + fps drops cuz pets to play demolock

[sleek sparrow]

i love demo lock

and the demo memes of blizzard hate just fuel me to love it more

[dense hamlet]

u see if it was forums ppl they would say "just switch to afflock or just go fire mage if u think frost or arcane is bad"

[icy crater]

hit a prot pala for 25k -> 15k env back to back

feels goooooood

[dense hamlet]

dfk

are ppl realy doing 25k envenoms

[slow marsh]

same

[slow marsh]

yes

[dense hamlet]

but what if it dosent hit that hard

[balmy condor]

especially with nightstalker

[dense hamlet]

u have t blow vanish

ik

[slow marsh]

no you dont

that was the shadowstrike opener

[dense hamlet]

ive tryed to hit some ppl and they didnt seem bothered

[slow marsh]

do you have the legendary for it?

[dense hamlet]

i mean i dont have doomblade no

[slow marsh]

Doomblade

[dense hamlet]

but i tryed with ma

[slow marsh]

is why it works

Doomblade with internal bleeding

[dense hamlet]

so u dont even vanish?

[slow marsh]

garrote and rupture

no its much more sustainable than sub which is why people are loving it

[echo cargo]

@balmy condor would Niya's haste buff have a higher PPM if you were on leeching poison / s&d heal conduit

[slow marsh]

i mean you can vanish

[balmy condor]

no

[dense hamlet]

yeah it is but i tought i have to blow vanish for it cuz first days u could do like 20k envemons with kiryan Cp and MA

[echo cargo]

=[

[dense hamlet]

so guess not i have to try that one out

[slow marsh]

i mean you could vanish for the 50% boost to crit but I dont think you actually need to

[icy crater]

doomblade isn't as much burst as MA but you have to use vanish with MA

which is trash at higher rating

[dense hamlet]

i mean blowing vanish is just generally trash even at lower rating they can right click u down ur super killable

thats why i was like no way its good

and it seems like ive missed somethings

[past mauve]

Nya's Poison > Burrs for Assassination correct? I know its Burrs for Sub.

[balmy condor]

no

we go burrs

[dense hamlet]

oh wait does niyas poison count for doomblade

[balmy condor]

no

it does not

[dense hamlet]

well fuck

[balmy condor]

why is everyone so hyped on poison all of a sudden

[dense hamlet]

man im not

[balmy condor]

you gotta interrupt for it to proc

[crimson palm]

Yes

[dense hamlet]

i was like if it does

[slow marsh]

because it sims higher

[icy crater]

also @balmy condor I tested DFV + MA, crit is caculated at damage not key press 😦

[dense hamlet]

5% more on envenoms

fk

[slow marsh]

but they dont realize sim is on a casting boss

[balmy condor]

that already removes it from relevancy

[balmy condor]

it only sims higher if they go hunting for those numbers saying it sims higher

no one in their right mind is simming themselves and going "oh boy lets sim a casting patchwerk"

[slow marsh]

I mean the default is casting patchwerk so it makes sense why they are getting mixed up

[balmy condor]

no it's not

[slow marsh]

they are though

[balmy condor]

the default is patchwerk

[stoic needle]

i have never seen poisons sim higher than burrs

like look at the two talents

burrs just does more damage

[gray fjord]

Poison is like 3.7% if you interrupt for everything every time, burrs is 5%. Easy Peasy

[stoic needle]

without the interrupt requirement

[balmy condor]

well, it does less if you're able to interrupt freely

with the conduit

conduit + infinite interrupts = poison > burrs

[slow marsh]

on bloodmallet and herodamage the default is casting patchwerk which is obviously wrong but that's why

[balmy condor]

that's exactly what I said

it only sims higher if they go hunting for those numbers saying it sims higher

no one in their right mind is simming themselves and going "oh boy lets sim a casting patchwerk"

[slow marsh]

yep i agree with you but that's where people are getting that info from is what i'm saying

[stoic needle]

there's just not enough interrupts in any CN raid fight for it to be even remotely competitive

[gray fjord]

^

Basically what I was going to write but way wordier.

[slow marsh]

well even beyond that though most fights are cleave anyways

[stoic needle]

it's definitely a pvp talent, through and through

[balmy condor]

well then they're clowning for not simming it themselves, not reading the tooltip of the trait, or just not looking at damage, logs, asking any questions about how it works, etc

[dense hamlet]

yeah that actually is kinda bad like many bossfights dont even have a single interupt to them so no poison dmg

[slow marsh]

even if it was casting to be able to interupt you're doing more damage with burs for cleave

[balmy condor]

if all people do is look at herodamage and go "niya poison STONKS"

and that's it

that's their problem

:P

[slow marsh]

I mean yeah

That's what we need is stonks

Which is why I went kyrian in the first place cuz ER is stonks

[balmy condor]

is it tho

[slow marsh]

yep

[balmy condor]

in pve?

[viral vigil]

Hows Sin looking rn for PvP. I know it won't be as good as Sub for straight up damage but how we doing with the buff

[balmy condor]

people have been making it work

[balmy condor]

the reason I question it, is because ER itself is actually less damage than sepsis

[slow marsh]

the damage itself yes

but the stonks is the 7cp finisher 5-6 times a fight

[balmy condor]

when you factor in double conduits and early stuff, it's all a wash

that's..... not why kyrian was good

[slow marsh]

it was good because its frront loaded

[balmy condor]

correct

[slow marsh]

NF just now overtook it with burrs

[balmy condor]

the 7cp finisher stuff

is actually fairly meaningless in pve

[royal lantern]

People overvalue that finisber quite alot

Like, a 7cp finisher is not a gigantic nuke that does extremly high dmg

[dense hamlet]

pvp is even worse u cant even finish with the given cp

[royal lantern]

Its just.... slightly more dmg on your next finisher

[balmy condor]

envenom damage is linear with combo points

so the difference from a 3cp to a 5cp, is the same as a 5cp to a 7cp

rupture is the same thing, except it's duration, since rupture damage is equal

same thing with crimson tempest damage/dot

[gray fjord]

But that extra like 1 second of envenom proc chance doe

:B

[balmy condor]

so if you want to test the damage of the animacharged cp for yourself

just sit on a dummy

and every 45 seconds

finish on a 3 cp envenom

and compare it to when you don't do that

just weave a couple in there

[slow marsh]

I mean its not like i'm sitting there waiting for fat 7cp envenoms. its nice for a long rupture but other than that its used mostly as just an early finisher

i'm envenom at 2-3 cp instead of 4-5 and saving energy and such. not an amazing boost but its passive stonks

[balmy condor]

wait

you're envenoming on 2-3?

[slow marsh]

animacharged

[balmy condor]

oh

[slow marsh]

yeah haha

[balmy condor]

yeah I'm not really sure that it's as big as you think it is

[slow marsh]

I'm not saying its massive stonks i'm just saying its passive gains

[gray fjord]

There is the feelgood factor or just getting a lot of CP for a cheap generator which is nice.

And then being able to drop it on a finisher right away if you win the anima cp lottery

[slow marsh]

It's an extra 3-4 finishers-ish versus what like 2 ambushes from sepsis? obviously not huge difference but i'm not really doing anything different for it. Plus the mastery for sidestepping

All i'm trying to say is that Kyrian was frontloaded because of ER + pelegos working off of ER. and in 2 weeks we get flat 5% crit

[gray fjord]

I can definitely see the appeal of Echoing Reprimand, I just never cared much for it on the beta and with the pelagos nerf it meant (for me) just picking a covenant with a non-invasive sort of ability. So Sepsis. xD

[lean geyser]

So how’s everyone likeing the buff

[slow marsh]

I really wanted and still want to go with venthyr but the abilities just seem awkward

[balmy condor]

we don't ambush from sepsis :P

[gray fjord]

Venthyr is by far the coolest mog, but yeah Flagellation is just a weird move. I didn't care for it either.

[slow marsh]

well whatever it is that you NF bois do

[balmy condor]

we do big dam

[stoic needle]

I really hope they rework it in 9.1 because it's so awful to use

[cerulean kernel]

@balmy condor do you sleep? you answer almost everything and any hour

[balmy condor]

I do not

[lean geyser]

Lol so in other words sin nasty

[balmy condor]

@wild lantern yells at me for it on a regular basis in fact

[stoic needle]

Sleeping is not stonks

[gray fjord]

Sleeping is definitely inverse stonks

[lean geyser]

Any way I can see some logs?

[slow marsh]

Yeah on one hand i'm hoping they look at covenants to tweak the borrowed power aspect but on the other I don't because of how much time people have invested

[balmy condor]

maybe I stream heroic reclear tonight

[stoic needle]

I don't give a fuck how much time people have invested

Pardon my French

But give us the SAUCE

I want a goddamn convoke

[slow marsh]

I mean yeah lol

[balmy condor]

its not like the catchup is work

[stoic needle]

I got caught up in a week

[slow marsh]

It's not really but by the time they get around to it /shrug

[stoic needle]

And all of the covenant upgrades are cosmetic besides the table and anima conductor

[balmy condor]

I did weekly raid and a couple dungeons

and was just on curve

constantly

[stoic needle]

I have switched covenants twice from necro > venthyr > fae and had zero trouble keeping up

[balmy condor]

I only did the weekly quests for actual upgrades like burrs this week and stuff

but before that, I've just ignored the weekly renown as well

[slow marsh]

Well my mom said I can't play that long so

[stoic needle]

Our covenant abilities are trash and that needs to change

[balmy condor]

why do weekly quest now, when can get 2 renown from raid next week

[stoic needle]

That's peak slacker I didn't think about that

[balmy condor]

yeh

I mean lets get real

[gray fjord]

Honestly I don't bother keeping up unless it's a big unlock

[balmy condor]

an endurance conduit or some trash?

who cares

[slow marsh]

nerfing gains to 2 / week was lame

[gray fjord]

I just do the world boss/click souls in maw/raid when I'm 'behind' by 1 every time. lol

[balmy condor]

you won't find me doing weeklies just to unlock "your weapon takes no durability damage" on korayn

you see this?

this is what it looks like

to not do world quests

[grim canopy]

u do maw everyda?

[balmy condor]

nah but I should

sockets are nice

[gray fjord]

Haven't even unlocked the Avowed yet

What a scrub

[stoic needle]

I'm revered with every faction and 10k/21k with venari

I don't do anything besides the weeklies

[balmy condor]

but like, for what purpose

[gray fjord]

[stoic needle]

To craft shadestones for the $$$

[balmy condor]

I'm leatherwork/skinning this expac

[gray fjord]

Because completionist. xD

[balmy condor]

we don't do that here

[stoic needle]

Yeah no thx

[gray fjord]

[balmy condor]

might be hot take, but why completionist in wow when can play other game

[stoic needle]

Blizzard adds way too much fluff to be a completionist

[grim canopy]

like hitman3 true assassin

[gray fjord]

Definitely fair. I used to be way more about mount collecting/rep exalting etc I'm much lazier about it now. Still need like 30 mounts for 400. >_>

There are tons of 'easy' ones to get I just haven't bothered. lol

That and started playing heart gold for the first time soo

[whole cypress]

is there a blindside macro?

[dense hamlet]

i rather just run with stleath than use mounts so i can strike from shadows

• garrote does more dmg

[balmy condor]

!bs

[prisma monolith]

Macroing Ambush to Mutilate only works with the use of a addon.
It comes with the downside that it often requires multiple key presss.
Suggested addon to use(Gnome Sequencer):http://tiny.cc/mxb6tz
Showcase Video: #assassination message

[pulsar sluice]

anyone using elvui?

[whole cypress]

ty

[balmy condor]

[pulsar sluice]

my combo pts changed color for some reason

[gray fjord]

[wild lantern]

@cerulean kernel @balmy condor yell at him if he's up at unreasonable hours, he never sleeps. But I'll leave that for OT since it doesn't matter in sin 🙂

[cerulean kernel]

I would like to be able to play all 3 specs without worrying about conduit energy is that too much to ask for?

[balmy condor]

just use different soulbinds

they're close enough

[dense hamlet]

this is elvui no?

[balmy condor]

yeah it is

[dense hamlet]

fk that ugly addon

[balmy condor]

you call that ugly?

[cerulean kernel]

true next week is what i need for outlaw

[dense hamlet]

yeah

[balmy condor]

I mean

unlucky I guess

[dense hamlet]

do u not look at ur keybinds ?

[stoic needle]

Elvui is only ugly if you don't know how to customize it

[dense hamlet]

i dont see any on the pic

[balmy condor]

no, why would I

[stoic needle]

Why would you need to look at your keybinds

[dense hamlet]

thats weird

to know cds

[balmy condor]

I have weakauras for that

[stoic needle]

Keybinds are just inferior for cd tracking than weakauras

[dense hamlet]

i mean ididnt see was either tahts why i asked but i guess they are combat trigger

[balmy condor]

yeh

[dense hamlet]

i was like u must be calculating everything in ur head

[dense hamlet]

yeah thats fair

[grim canopy]

assassin has none of those short cooldowns like ret

[tidal gorge]

Is raidbots fully updated for the sin buff yet or do I need to pick nightly or somethin magic?

[balmy condor]

shiv is pretty short

[balmy condor]

it's updated

[grim canopy]

i mean like a few 4-5 sec ones

[balmy condor]

oh

[dense hamlet]

u mean that truck can explode u in 2 sec?

[viral iris]

wait is niya burrs possible this week?

[balmy condor]

yeah no, none of the rogue specs do

[main forge]

Yes

[balmy condor]

yes

[dense hamlet]

koryan dosent look very happy huh

[balmy condor]

yeh idk whats up with that

[grim canopy]

so you need to use shiv once the burr proccs?

[balmy condor]

the camera is like 2 inches too close

so her face is clipping into the portrait

really weird

[dense hamlet]

yeah

[balmy condor]

you just keep shiving on cd

burrs does not change your rotation

[grim canopy]

oh

[balmy condor]

for any of the 3 specs

[dense hamlet]

yeah if u get it during shiv its a plusssss

[outer lodge]

Burrs worth losing 2nd potency for?

[dense hamlet]

yep

[grim canopy]

even m+?

[balmy condor]

m+ you go korayn

but yes, even m+

[grim canopy]

ok

[dense hamlet]

yeah still koryan is better

[reef axle]

for legs leggo, do we use crit haste missive?

[balmy condor]

Yes

[reef axle]

soooooo 203 to 226 chest, or 213 to 226 dagger for OH hmmm

[balmy condor]

Have you simmed it

[reef axle]

simmin it now

[dense hamlet]

is there a toy dummy or is it something u buy from ah

ive always wanted one of those to just smash in the free time

[shy dust]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/pDwetmgTqtJGykkomf79PC @balmy condor

[dense hamlet]

sin buffs coming in handy

[balmy condor]

HUGE

[balmy condor]

Something something turnip something

Hold on

https://www.wowhead.com/item=88375/turnip-punching-bag

This thing

[dense hamlet]

omg my punching bag

thanks for that

[plain thistle]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/rQxcCAVVYmmq2UowkZjQYS almost there boys

just need a 226 dagger and 226 inerva ring

[dark hollow]

wait, are we 2x shadowcore?

as sin.

[plain thistle]

for what?

outlaw is double shadowcore for single target

[stoic needle]

1x shadowcore 1x stone sims best for me

but phantom fire potions are really unreliable, sometimes they do tons of damage sometimes they don't

[reef axle]

is daggers still considered stat stick for sin rogues? or mut gives OH use rather than stats?

[balmy condor]

MH is part of main damage calculations, OH is used in mutilate calculations, but it's weaker than MH on that, and mutilate is the only ability where it's used

so OH is a stat stick, MH is not

the fact that it's used in mut makes it sort of relevant, but it's not enough to actually make it strong

[reef axle]

true but in reality, even though chest sims more, i believe theyre easier to come by than a 226 dagger also

[worldly yarrow]

Folks, quick simple question: How does Sin compare w Sub on single targets atm, providing same ilvl and best leggo?

[balmy condor]

2-3% down

[worldly yarrow]

kk, thanks for ballpark

[reef axle]

!guide

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
RH: https://www.ravenholdt.net/guides/assassination-rogue-guide-shadowlands-raid-dps/
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide

[plush flint]

Do you need 2 daggers for sin or can you use a 1h as OH? Asking as an outlaw main

[drifting cloud]

2

[plush flint]

Gotcha

[tribal marlin]

The assa buff is already live on raidbot ?

[balmy condor]

yes

[tribal marlin]

ok ok

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/2SW7yvTeV3rj4ny3aWdrPK

execute dps

with sub optimal gear

[faint harness]

5 minute execute

[tribal marlin]

That's a truck of dps considering you don't really loose much doing mechanics

[faint harness]

Thats huge bro

[balmy condor]

could've just done execute patchwerk

that starts at 20%

[faint harness]

So

2 minute sim

20%

[tribal marlin]

3mn execute

[faint harness]

But its not 3 minutes

[tribal marlin]

ok wait

[faint harness]

Its about 2 minutes

[tribal marlin]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/2EZwt3bCA1GQT6DVv3xk5 (Vendetta at 40% and 10% fight start at 40%)

here

fight start at 40% and last 3mn = sire p3

[faint harness]

Yea

[tribal marlin]

that's truck load of dps

for assa spec = close to simdps even with mechanics

[faint harness]

Not always but close at least

I wasnt consistently matching my sim in bfa

[tribal marlin]

imagine I lack 2 ring hast as well, there is 100-120 dps to get with more haste

[stoic needle]

sin stonks rising

[balmy condor]

HOLD BOIS

ITS GOING TO THE MOON

[low girder]

[rocky escarp]

4.8k on mythic hungering. Last week 4k as outlaw. #ToTheMoon

[dusky umbra]

probably the downtime from u running around, the bleeds keep doing dmg and in outlaw u dont have that

[rocky escarp]

for sure

but I can finally play assa 😛

[elfin valley]

!guide

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
RH: https://www.ravenholdt.net/guides/assassination-rogue-guide-shadowlands-raid-dps/
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide

[stuck shuttle]

how is sin now compared to Sub with new buuffs?

[plain thistle]

ok

[balmy condor]

close

[reef axle]

unsure if many will switch on a competetive level though

[balmy condor]

probably unlikely

[plain thistle]

competitive level for what?

for raids thats already gone

and assa can be good for p3 denath

[shy dust]

yes it can

[inner granite]

Is there anything I can do to make sin more enjoyable in torghast / dungeons?

I feel like once you throw a few targets into the mix sin just doesn't handle it well

[stoic needle]

Practice

Talent CT

Multidot

Profit

I used to think sin was awkward in aoe but that thought kinda went away after I practiced more

Sin is literally S tier in Torghast

[inner granite]

I mean I am garroting x3 and using CT

the energy regen is just so slow

[stoic needle]

You aren't rupturing enough

Sin has literally infinite energy with 3x garotte and several ruptures up

[inner granite]

ok

Will work on it

also, why does FoK seem inconsistent with CP generation?

[stoic needle]

Because it's a trash ability

[inner granite]

trash for sin anyways

[stoic needle]

It gives Cp based on the number of crits you get with seal fate

And only 1 by default

If you have low crit your cp gen will suck

That's one of sin's major flaws

First strike will help with that soon

[inner granite]

I'm kyrian though

so not for me

So when is it worth actually using FoK?

[balmy condor]

fok on 3

[inner granite]

and pray for more than 1 CP 😄

[balmy condor]

yep

[inner granite]

What is the optimal opener for sin?

With MA talent

[balmy condor]

mut snd mut

[inner granite]

garrote mut rupt?

[balmy condor]

mut snd mut

[inner granite]

I meant after that

[balmy condor]

oh

yeah

[inner granite]

mut snd mut gattore mut rupt

[balmy condor]

well

no

mut snd mut gar rup

no need for 2 muts

[inner granite]

gotcha

what about with vanish?

[balmy condor]

you vanish into mut env mut or env mut env

[inner granite]

mut snd mut vanish garrote mut rupt?

ah okay

[balmy condor]

just during envenom

uh

vendetta

during vendetta

[inner granite]

right always pair together

[sleek otter]

!bis

[prisma monolith]

Whispyrs Bis list: http://tiny.cc/76r5tz

[inner granite]

pool energy until around 100 before casting envenom right?

[balmy condor]

I mean, sure

don't have to

but technically yeh

[wooden silo]

assassin is feeling good

[inner granite]

any tips for playing sin in M+

Or is it better to stick to outlaw?

[dusky vault]

Stick with outlaw unless you enjoy assa gameplay. Outlaw will still outperform it for now.

Assa in m+ is all about maintaining multi dots on multiple enemies

[deft vault]

Just got Mythic inerva Ring

[spice spire]

w

That was an intentional W

[tacit pebble]

update

sin still feels like shit

dont play it on council

[grim canopy]

damnn

[full tendon]

Yesterday's hotfixes are in addition to like last week or whatever?

[balmy condor]

yes

[full tendon]

Neat

[tacit pebble]

first reclear in a few weeks and the only boss i did more dps on was huntsman, was basically equal on artificer/hungering/inerva

compared to playing sub*

[wide bolt]

If youre good at sin its a good ego booster for people looking to parse lol

[quartz shadow]

haha true

[wide bolt]

shriek and sludge i got rank like 50 and 30 respectively for heroic

lol

[quartz shadow]

i got rank 4 on huntsman a few weeks ago

i think its like 10 now

[wide bolt]

Wanted to but my guild was brain dead on huntsman tonight

[quartz shadow]

hard to push with 200/180 daggers

[wide bolt]

had like multiple sub 190 alts there

so damage was too low for me to meme

and justifiy it lol

[quartz shadow]

my sin rogue on huntsman is always near the top in dmg

i think me being necro has alot to do with it

Emni mainstat buff is really good when youre in execute for a majority of the fight

[cunning ether]

where can i find the exsanguinate skill? im not seeing it on my alt

[quartz shadow]

It is a Talent

Level 45 talent

[cunning ether]

thank you thank fuck

[balmy condor]

exsang in 2021

[faint harness]

9.1

[fallow otter]

bring back expedient

global locked sin ST CT

so fun

[faint harness]

made an easy spec literally braindead

[fallow otter]

same spec all content poggers

lol

some people cant play global locked specs

[faint harness]

energy management should be somewhat of a thing

not just mindless muti spam

[fallow otter]

yeh i agree i just miss it in general for fun

that and i havent played sin since corruption disappeared for obv reasons

[faint harness]

same

[fallow otter]

slave to the numbas

[faint harness]

well i just prefer sub

if they are both equal

[drowsy hollow]

I know sin isn't really changed from 8.3, yet why am I liking it right now haha

[fallow otter]

yeh i switched coz its the first time we had a chance to play it in a long time

for raid

[faint harness]

[quartz shadow]

yeah why are you

it was way more fun then

[faint harness]

its kinda changed

you cant mutilate every global

[quartz shadow]

i miss EB

[drowsy hollow]

I'm one of the weirdos who misses Sub having a shadow dot instead of a bleed, but I also like poisons being more than a very small passive dps like it is for sub.

[tacit pebble]

SND needs to either not exist or have some kind of passive extender so it has to be casted less

like that ferocious bite execute thing or even something similar to grand melee

[drowsy hollow]

you mean like what sub has? 😄

[faint harness]

nightblade design was shit

its not about colour of the dmg type

it limited sub so much in any target swapping

[drowsy hollow]

and rupture doesn't?

[faint harness]

no?

[tacit pebble]

rupture doesnt increase damage taken

[quartz shadow]

rupture is just a bleed

[faint harness]

do you know that nightblade increased dmg taken by 15%

[quartz shadow]

nightblade was more then that

[faint harness]

so if you didnt have nightblade on your target you did 15% less dmg

its so bad

[quartz shadow]

^^

[drowsy hollow]

I'd have been fine with if they had made night blade just a plain dot, I liked it being thematic to sub.

[faint harness]

if they took rupture and made it shadow dmg

and called it nightblade, sure

but 18 sec duration and 15% dmg taken, noty

[fallow otter]

back to being dispelable

[strange python]

rupture is boring

[fallow otter]

so is snd

[quartz shadow]

true, so it auto attacking

[shy dust]

Night blade was dogshit design

Such a bloated spell

[drowsy hollow]

I made a void elf rogue and mained sub in bfa to be shadowblade

[pallid cradle]

so are we viable yet

[quartz shadow]

have been viable for awhile, just not as strong

[strange python]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/26#sample=1&aggregate=amount&dataset=99

here

arcane mage has fallen below sin on the last data collection

but thats about it

hasnt really moved otherwise

[stoic needle]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination WA's:
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)

[strange python]

fury warriors looking pretty happy outperforming arms in raid now

specs been buffed about 1000 times since launch

[quartz shadow]

they were already equal 2 buffs ago, people just would rather have a prot just for the buff

[drifting cloud]

prot is the least played tank

[strange python]

tbh I think its just that the sample size of players playing sin rogue has yet to increase

[drowsy hollow]

not in raid

[strange python]

I think when more people start picking it up it'll increase

[drifting cloud]

yes in raid.

[drowsy hollow]

less people will swap specs since covenants and legendaries have some sunk cost to them

[strange python]

is prot played less than bear

[quartz shadow]

it is yeah

[drowsy hollow]

thought prot warrior was still brought to raids for many guilds just for the buff

[quartz shadow]

also rogues it doesnt really matter, cov choice matters so little for rogue

[strange python]

yea no ones gonna notice the dps difference its not like if a hunter chooses to go necrolord instead of night fae

[quartz shadow]

shouldnt affect the amount of people wanting to swap over really

Im Necro on my rogue

[strange python]

or mages losing a billion dps because they cant power shift anymore

[quartz shadow]

yeah, its pretty much just preference at this point for rogue, i picked necro for the mog lol

[drowsy hollow]

I'm venthyr myself

[quartz shadow]

I actually was gonna go them too

cause i saw how badass the mog looked

on my undead

but the ability was bugged

so i decided to go necro like i originally planned

lol

[strange python]

I actually think the necrolord transmog set for leather is sick

lol

way better than NF

[quartz shadow]

for sure

like i said, thats why i went necro lol

[drowsy hollow]

my druid is necro

[quartz shadow]

whoa

[drowsy hollow]

I spread my 4 leather classes out to one covenant each

I missed having insect spells

[strange python]

I would buy some of the tmog sets but I don't wanna spend anima for them

only thing I've unlocked besides campaign mogs is the house of plagues backpack thing from maldrax

[drowsy hollow]

I spent 3500 to get a glaive that matches the covenant set on my DH

worth it

[strange python]

I just -10k'd on a sanctum upgrade today feels awful

[manic harness]

What is Zoldyck's ring called when created in game?

[balmy condor]

doesn't have a name

because you can't craft on ring

zold is leg or boots

[manic harness]

Oh, right, thanks

[drowsy hollow]

I'm probably a freak for wishing tiny toxic blade was best.

[balmy condor]

yeah I'd say so

[manic harness]

I'm trying to find the item so I can sim Assassination in Gear Compare

buuuut I'm dumb

I need to go roll Hunter or something since my brain just isn't working

that way I can still play competitive DPS

[strange python]

when u press shiv 😩

[balmy condor]

why not just do it through top gear?

[manic harness]

Cause I haven't crafted it yet

[balmy condor]

so?

[manic harness]

You can manually enter it in Top Gear?

[drowsy hollow]

200 conquest til I can get a dagger

[manic harness]

Ooooooh

Thank you!

[drowsy hollow]

the conquest grind early suuucks

and the cap is now 5k. 😄

[strange python]

I was keeping up with my conquest cap for a bit but my work sched changed so I couldn't play with 2's partner anymore

just sorta stopped

[drowsy hollow]

I just need ANY gear

cause fresh chars suck

pvp is especially bad

[sinful sentinel]

So how's sin feeling after the buffs

Haven't had time to mess with it

[drowsy hollow]

5% better

[sinful sentinel]

kek

[reef axle]

Meh

[stoic needle]

working on a set of PRD based weakauras because i didn't like how static my old ones were

i like the way the blizzard PRD moves but i hate the way it looks

so i decided to make my own

[fallow otter]

what is the bar thats constantly moving

that doesnt look like useful information

[stoic needle]

its a swing timer

old classic habit, but it helps to know if i'm actually autoattacking

[fallow otter]

is your WA anchored to the bottom of your toon

thats new

[stoic needle]

it's called the personal resource display

[fallow otter]

o addon

[stoic needle]

there's one thats built into the game, this is a souped up version of it

its still a weakaura, it just takes the place of the default one

sometimes i find that i'm not actually autoattacking stuff in M+ when i'm running around trying to multidot or FOK or whatever, so i think the swing timer may help me get better melee uptime. but if i find that it's just always up i'm gonna get rid of it

[fallow otter]

yeh ok fair

what spell order thing you using on the left

its simple and i want one

[balmy condor]

looks like trufi

[fallow otter]

could be, usually i see them with much more bloat

so never bothered

handy for ww

[stoic needle]

yeah it's trufigcd

[torpid spoke]

what to put on legendary?
crit haste?
for zoldyak?

[balmy condor]

yep

[stoic needle]

stats lookin kinda stonks atm. need some more crit though

[torpid spoke]

is crit > vers?

i thought all secondaries are kinda similar

[stoic needle]

i do M+ so crit is more valuable for aoe

[mighty zenith]

Niyas tools. Poison or burrs for mythic plus?

[balmy condor]

BURRS

:D

[mighty zenith]

Ok thank you

When we unlock korayns final row will we take first strike for mythic plus?

Or still burrs

[balmy condor]

yes

first strike

[mighty zenith]

Ok cool appreciate it

[balmy condor]

np

[strange python]

Anyone test out sin tonight post-buff.... Pog or dog?

[fleet whale]

it's good

[primal zinc]

!bis

[prisma monolith]

Whispyrs Bis list: http://tiny.cc/76r5tz

[steel wagon]

my guildie was talking about assassin being broken in torghast and there being a video of it posted recently

anyone know what hes talking about?

[wide bolt]

Ive heard sin is best torghast spec yet to try it myself idk anything about a video tho

[balmy condor]

he probably saw one clip of vein rippers

and then went OH MY GOD INSANE VEIN RIPPER DAMAGE HUGE GIGA DAM WTFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF

[steel wagon]

i dont even know what spec i would want lol

[rose condor]

I mean, if you get the right talent combinations, all the specs are "broken" in torghast, which is the whole idea of the place

[drowsy hollow]

of the 6 classes I've gotten to 60, rogue definitely was the roughest

couldn't even do layer 3

fresh shaman, even as enh, goes in, clears things with ease

[green karma]

Well it was hard as a rogue when sl got released

Atleast to solo it

Now it’s just a breeze with any spec

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[drowsy hollow]

not compared to other classes

and is definitely gear dependent

[green karma]

I do not compare

[rocky ruin]

Fml 220 Quantum Device

[green karma]

I just said it’s a breeze

[rocky ruin]

Bad luck

[rose condor]

I dont know about the gear thing anymore, since i'm obviously geared now, but now you can literally just stealth to last boss and kill it

[iron orchid]

No 226 weapon in the vault

[rose condor]

Picking up some free powers here and there and getting the cheap ones from vendor

[drowsy hollow]

I don't know, grabbed myself a 184 dagger before going in even, wasn't expecting layer 8, but layer 3 any other class I walked in and got not problem, rogue, nope, wasn't happening on last boss even with 15-20 powers

[rose condor]

sounds odd, but outliers happen i guess

[green karma]

Well the thing abt thorgast is that it kinda succs but u have to do it for the ash it’s not rewarding u go in and out and don’t talk abt it After u went there

[stoic needle]

wdym fml that's one of the best trinkets in the game

[drowsy hollow]

It does suck, but it's a fact that an undergeared rogue is gonna probably have the worst time. 😄

[stoic needle]

nooooo

[iron orchid]

I'll probably get the 226 NW Haste/vers ring

but i already had 223/226 rings

[rose condor]

I'll probably get a cloak I already have 2 of

ez

[iron orchid]

this one has a socket

[green karma]

What are ur options ?

Wouldnt go for accessories

Since no main stat

[iron orchid]

The rest I already have, with better stats ^^

[drowsy hollow]

why no 2100 in rbgs, haha

[green karma]

Agi over everything

Sims better then secondary stats

[stoic needle]

yes but rings have so much secondary stats that they're usually a bigger dps upgrade than any other slot besides maybe chest or head

[green karma]

Depends

I always sim

[iron orchid]

There is a 226 chest, I already got one last week

[stoic needle]

me too, and its rare that a ring doesn't sim better

[iron orchid]

the rest is accessories only

Gotta farm burrs now

[stoic needle]

i just finished my anima quest

spent like 3hrs tweaking my ui so the maw quests will have to wait until tomorrow lo

cant wait to do some raid and m+ with burrs and this new gear

[fallow otter]

i dont think this is true

agi is number 1 atm

[stoic needle]

yes, but a ring will sim better than any slot except the ones that have the most agi on them

like chest, head, legs

like this is what the sims have shown me over the entire expansion

[fallow otter]

can you do a stat weights sim of your sin

and send me

[stoic needle]

sure, but agi is still #1 in terms of weight behind MH wdps. its just that rings have so much secondary stat on them and peices like bracers and capes have so little agi on them that rings are usually better

@fallow otter https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/chtq7vjtXNDHeJJk2AD3mD

like if you were to do a droptimizer sim with my character as an input for the 213 pvp gear, the rings are currently the highest dps increase

even though my helm is 200 and my ring is 203

[fallow otter]

ye im not disputing

just interested how far it off it is for sin

for chest etc its a no brainer it think

[green karma]

I mean all secondary stats sim around 1-2

And agi like 3 or 4 I do not remember exactly

And all the secondary stats are pretty similar it’s just 0,something range

[stoic needle]

I need more crit

[fallow otter]

for your gear

excuse the dirtiness haha

[stoic needle]

Seems about right

If the agi piece has high haste or crit instead of mastery or vers it's usually better than a ring

But pvp gear is more vers heavy

Like the rainshadow hauberk is giga

[elfin forge]

Quick question guys, does the Dashing Scoundrel legendary give its crit and energy regen to the 2 poison trinkets? Bottled Flayedwing Toxin and Phial of Putrification?

[balmy condor]

no

cause they aren't technically poisons

and also aren't rogue abilities

[elfin forge]

😦

[balmy condor]

trinkets have very limited, to no interactions

with any spec abilities

the only thing on rogues atm is the crit chance from PE affects trinket crit, since PE is global crit chance

shiv doesn't work on nature damage trinkets

[elfin forge]

dam. so is dashing scoundrel even good? cos the extra energy seems good

[fallow otter]

Legendary choice:
Single Target: Dashing Scoundrel > Zoldyck >= Doomblade > Master Assassin
Mythic Plus: Zoldyck >= Master Assassin

[elfin forge]

which poisons does it even work on? Deadly ticks and deadly instant procs?

[drowsy hollow]

Is sin aoe really just FoK and spreading, rupture?

[lunar wave]

How is assassination post buff ?

[elfin forge]

i think they've pinned Simms JNiitro

yer check out latest pin

[drowsy hollow]

I've only done a single m0, but it didn't feel bad at all at 160 ilvl, imagine it'll be perfectly fine with gear

Just as a tank main I know I hesitate taking rogues to keys

[stoic needle]

It's not really that great. It sims the best but zoldyck is more flexible and gives sin the entire reason for it's existence which is the execute

[elfin forge]

Could Dashing scoundrel's energy let us go with Deeper Stratagem instead of vigor?

[drowsy hollow]

I always get disappointed by the aoe dps sub rogues do when I invite one to a key, outlaw does the aoe dps though. I guess sin may be somewhere in the middle?

[balmy condor]

not usually, no

[elfin forge]

cool cool

[onyx anvil]

Dose dashing scoundrel really provide that much energy gain as the smic shows?
Nearly 430 extra enegry within 6mins

[errant delta]

so wats the go between MA and subdefuge?

single target

[iron orchid]

MA may be a slight dps gain

but once there is even one add you can put a subterfuge garrote on, it probably is better to pick subterfuge

[balmy condor]

seems about right

[balmy condor]

like dei said, MA single target, subt if you can profit off of cleaving garrote even on 2 target

[errant delta]

and stones or oil st

[iron orchid]

as long as you don't double oil, you'd be fine

[primal zinc]

@balmy condor where is the new bis list? i wanna see the numbers 😛

[balmy condor]

haven't simmed it yet

if you want to see the new numbers, just add like 220 to all of the current numbers

and that's pretty much it

[primal zinc]

220 what?

[balmy condor]

220 dps

[fallow otter]

is that exactly 5% of bis?

lol

• melee hits

[balmy condor]

bout 3.4%

the actual 5% buff ended up giving us roughly 3.5%

so on a 6k+ simming character

[elfin forge]

cos the 5% is a buff to abilities and not melee hits is that why?

[balmy condor]

you can just add 200ish dps

and call it a day

[balmy condor]

yeah, abilities only, no trinkets, potion, melee damage

[elfin forge]

cool

[dusky vault]

To confirm is the opener with MA talented: Mutilate -> SnD -> Mutilate -> Garrote?

[balmy condor]

yuh

[shy axle]

the guide says to use every covenant except Necrolord as opener iirc or is that outdated

[primal zinc]

oh btw to all venthyr rogues we get more buff cos today we gonna get 3% from nadjia 🙂

lets pad ST dps

xD

[dense perch]

Good evening everyone. Is the pinned discussion still best covenant/spec/legendary or is that still valid all the way back from 09/06/20?

[main forge]

It may have been posted on the 09/06/20... but it has been edited to be updated

it was last updated jan 11th

Because I swear Dashing was not before Zold for a long time, and I know everyone was talking about making zold in here.

[dense perch]

And is there a rotation addon out there more valid than Tell me When with the update posted DEC 19, 2020 or Hekili? I'm trying to get this figured out because I'm being forced to min/max my Sin rogue. And things went completely south about 12 hours ago.

[main forge]

Are you asking about which covenant to pick? Even though they are ranked that way, the difference between all 4 is really minimal. Especially IIRC they were saying the difference was 1-3% between all covenants for rogue.

[shy axle]

@main forge no

someone said open with mut -> snd - > mut -> gar and the guide suggests using f.e. your nightfae attack instead of the first mut

not sure if wrong or outdated or irrelevant

[limber lion]

Eyy Renown 30

We buffed up and ready to go

[main forge]

The guide isn't taking into account of having MA talented. That changes it from what I understand.

[sweet wedge]

!stats

[prisma monolith]

**Shadowlands: ** Haste > Versatility => Critical Strike => Mastery

[errant delta]

whats the target cap when you stop using mut a nd fok?

[balmy condor]

fok 3

[novel arrow]

Hi does anyone know if offhand dps factors into ability damage? besides the stats?

To be specific. Is offland just a stat stick

[willow oracle]

Yes no

Oh wait

Assa Channel

[balmy condor]

offhand dps is factored in for only mutilate damage

[primal zinc]

omg

siming 5.8k 213 ilvl 20crit 22haste %

[pseudo hamlet]

Zoldyck - crit+haste?

[balmy condor]

or haste vers

[pseudo hamlet]

Whats the difference?

[balmy condor]

one has vers one has crit

[pseudo hamlet]

Hah, I meant overall - which one is better? It only depends on the rest of the gear?
Wouldn't like to pay a big amount of money just to get the wrong stats 😛

[storm onyx]

Depends on what content play style you enjoy

More crit will let you get faster CPs in M+

[opaque sparrow]

quick question: is 30 the max renown this week?

[storm onyx]

It will place your dmg more to envenoms

Vers will spread dmg to everything and net less finishers and apm

[pseudo hamlet]

I think I'll go raiding and M+ with Assa for now. So Crit+Vers seems better option(?)

[storm onyx]

Crit haste

[balmy condor]

at the end of the day, it really doesn't matter

[balmy condor]

yes

[storm onyx]

Crit will let you get Fok Cps faster in m+

[opaque sparrow]

k thanks

[daring pecan]

next week is where the real shit goes down

[balmy condor]

I mean, the 70 crit will be ~2% crit, it won't change anything

but yes

theoretically you will get more cp

with crit on your gear

[pseudo hamlet]

Awesome 😄

[storm onyx]

I mean in general gear path, yea single item will have minor impact

[balmy condor]

not quite sure what this is supposed to mean

[storm onyx]

He asked overall which is better; hence the explanation on how it changes the overall play style etc

[balmy condor]

uh huh....

I guess I don't get it then

because the difference is really meaningless

[fading acorn]

how much haste is ideal?

[balmy condor]

but maybe that's me

[balmy condor]

depends on your other stats

[tender fjord]

More

[balmy condor]

we don't have breakpoints

so "ideal" haste

isn't really a thing

if you have a lot of haste atm, you'll want less haste probably, and if you have not a lot, you'll want haste

[fading acorn]

what i got so far

[balmy condor]

ah beat me to it

that sort of screenshot is sadly also a waste of time

because those stats don't really show anything

the only way is to just keep top gear simming

and it'll work out

[fading acorn]

well im just testing out asssassination not much exp with this spec

doing about 3-4k sustain on a dummy target using hekili rotation

seems like im running out of energy fast

[balmy condor]

that's normal

sin is about 42-45 apm with a regular gear set

it's not supposed to be fast

[fading acorn]

what legendary you reccomend

[balmy condor]

zoldyck for all pve

ma for pvp

[old snow]

ma or doomblade for pvp, with ma imo being better

[lime gust]

so is assass any decent at the moment?

[balmy condor]

yes

its fine

[lime gust]

but outlaw is still better isnt it?

[balmy condor]

correct

[lime gust]

gotcha

[pseudo hamlet]

What do you guys think about talents? I mean for raiding and M+? It's Subterfuge+EP for M+ and Blindside + MA f or raiding?

[balmy condor]

blindside for single target, ma/subt are both fine

vigor/mfd are close, so if you can get resets, it's definitely worth considering

EP is worth the moment you get 2+ targets fairly regularly

CT is worth in m+, but for raids, stick to PB

alacrity always

nightstalker is okay, but subt/ma are better