I’m imagining niya in fucking cowboy boots
#assassination
last glade
tulip nacelle
might be bis on Denny
dusky vault
Yep also this ^
Assa has the best (only) execute damage of rogues
Possibly also good on sludge
strange python
i want spurs
lol to be fair most people don't know what a "burr" is
FYI for those who see burrs and go 
fallow otter
i think you mean https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spur_(disambiguation)
strange python
lol
fallow otter
drifting cloud
no thats just the offical list with other stuff
sterile bane
oh ok
undone eagle
Is it worth to finally go back to assa? 😦
strange python
Is it worth to finally go back to assa? 😦
potentially, although if you find it PARTICULARLY fun then it always was
undone eagle
It was my main spec in legion, lots of fun
But sinking so much in dps just made me have to try sub in SM
SL*
Hopefully it will be meta soon
strange python
tyrannical got nerfbat
??? explains? new patch?
fallow otter
[With regional restarts] Bosses now gain 30% increased health when Tyrannical (Affix) is active (was 40%).
strange python
lol
so instead of feeling like watching the entire trilogy of lotr you'll just be able to watch the first 2 movies
I see
dusky vault
yep 7% hp nerf; its not that much
strange python
Developers’ note: We’ve noticed tanks in Mythic Keystone Dungeons feeling pressured to spend more time running away and less time actually tanking than we’d like. In an effort to address this, we’re dialing back the tank damage of a number of dungeon denizens who’ve proven to be particularly painful.
hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
you fuckin' think?
what game are these dudes watching?
you realised this shit in like week 2
slow marsh
So exactly how much easier is sin able to execute than sub and at what point should I commit to the swap? I'm like 204 ilevel focusing mostly on ilvl over preferred stats. I'm not pulling the dps I should be in raid setting and it's gating me out of the last 2 on heroic + mythic
primal gazelle
whats stat priority in m+? still haste?
dusky vault
So exactly how much easier is sin able to execute than sub and at what point sho...
go fight one of the raid dummies for 30 minutes; see how it feels
strange python
So exactly how much easier is sin able to execute than sub and at what point sho...
commit to swapping whenever you want, there's no "required ilvl" or anything
and you "execute" automatically with sin by just having zoldyck, there's no TRYING, it just happens
slow marsh
commit to swapping whenever you want, there's no "required ilvl" or anything
and...
Haha I actually figured that would happen. I mean execute mechanically 😆 sorry
strange python
it's on the leggo itself
it literally just occurs at 30%
also something to take into account...
slow marsh
go fight one of the raid dummies for 30 minutes; see how it feels
Thanks for the reply, I don't have any issue on the raid dummy either way, I mean more in terms of live raid setting (some lag and mechanics)
strange python
if you're not pulling the dps as sub, it's not all that likely you'll suddenly do a ton more as sin
sub isn't bad on those fights
it might not be optimal
but it's not BAD
dusky vault
Sin is probably more forgiving with downtime #feelcraft
strange python
although yeah ^ this
slow marsh
it literally just occurs at 30%
I don't mean execute as in sub 30%, I mean execute as in actually performing at a certain level
slow marsh
Yeah that's more what I'm asking.
strange python
it's like preschool vs collage
daring plover
xd
dusky vault
it's like preschool vs collage
whats outlaw then haha
slow marsh
I understand how sub works and on dummy can easily keep up 5k dps. But in live raid I just get screwed so hard by different things
strange python
sub isn't a particularly difficult spec on it's own, but APPLYING it to the fight can be iffy
that's the only hard part about it
if that is the part that's catching you out then yeah, you'll likely see an increase switching to sin
even if you're not that good at it
slow marsh
Sadly I enjoy how sub plays I just have an issue performing in the love raid for some reason. I don't know if it's frame drops / lag or literally just mechanics but it's making me sadge
Live*
tired falcon
Mechanics can mess you up
stoic needle
yep 7% hp nerf; its not that much
How does 10% = 7%
tired falcon
When I pop cds and mechanics hit me I cry everytime
strange python
sometimes it can't be avoided
but... if you don't know the fight and you hit your cds right before you need to run out for a timed mechanic
then that is 100000% your fault
and you should be punished for it
a lot of the fights in CN are like that
on the upside, assass doesn't really have that issue
even better, you'll keep hitting things WHILE you're running
stoic needle
Well the thing is if you hold CDs as sub it's a dps loss
slow marsh
I know the fights so that's not fully the issue. It's mostly the mechanics you can't avoid, lag, and my guild just favors range in strats so I'm working from behind on top of being a melee working from behind
dusky vault
How does 10% = 7% <:monkahmm:585734084571955211>
because its going from 140% hp to 130%
strange python
Well the thing is if you hold CDs as sub it's a dps loss
holding them is a loss in a vacuum, but holding them so you don't WASTE them is a dps gain
so not quite
stoic needle
Well yeah I agree
But a spec like outlaw where you just send it whenever it's off cd with no care
Loses less in that situation
Or sin where there's only 1 cd 
strange python
I know the fights so that's not fully the issue. It's mostly the mechanics you c...
all of CN favours ranged strats
a good example of what I mean is sludgefist
at the start of sludge you use your first dance window, THEN you'll have a second window, IN THAT SECOND window you have the time and resources to use 2 dances
but you can't
you don't
why
because in the middle of that dance you'll have to run away
sub itself isn't hard, but applying it to the fight takes fight knowledge
slow marsh
Yeah I understand it favors ranged more than usual that's what I mean I'm double-y behind lol
empty cradle
I miss kingslayer
stoic needle
And sub's damage as such is that if you have to hold CDs you aren't doing as much as most ranged
strange python
again though, on the upside, if you're switching to sin
all of that becomes mute
like with outlaw
you just turn up and do your do, and it does it's do
obsidian willow
Which stats are best for zoldycks again,
slow marsh
Well I think I'll just craft 190 zoldyks and see how it goes then, thank you guys. Should I worry much about swapping gear for stats or is it not as big of a deal as people seem to make it ?
dusky vault
Well I think I'll just craft 190 zoldyks and see how it goes then, thank you guy...
just sim everything in your bags using top gear
drowsy hollow
Fresh shaman, goes in, does layer 5 no problem with no gear, I get some gear on a baby rogue, can't do layer 3. 😄
dusky vault
You can link your sub logs too; you may get valuable information out of it even if you swap specs
strange python
Well I think I'll just craft 190 zoldyks and see how it goes then, thank you guy...
sin favours haste, but overall the rest of the stats aren't NEARLY as much of a concern as others will say they are
they make a difference
but it won't be what makes/breaks you
slow marsh
But not enough to drop ilvl right?
drowsy hollow
I didn't expect layer 8 tonight, but layer 3 should've been doable
strange python
I didn't expect layer 8 tonight, but layer 3 should've been doable
never really been sure what people said was hard in torgh as a rogue tbh
later on sin is 100% S Tier as fuck in torgh
objectively busted
drowsy hollow
patrician cromwell layer 3 murdered me
strange python
try switching to sub and using soothing darkness
stoic needle
Sin is literally god mode in Torghast
strange python
I'm 219 ilvl now but I just stealth directly to the bosses at this stage
stoic needle
I gotta try that
slow marsh
What is the broken combo for sin in fort? Actually about to do it now
strange python
red ink, vein rippers, and anything that stacks up more bleed deeps from finishers
drowsy hollow
I actually did switch to sub and still sucked
strange python
my largest vein ripper crit so far is 15 mil, though I think seli did a 16.8 or some shit
drowsy hollow
I don't have a lot of gear, but it didn't stop my shaman
strange python
yeah idk, I was boosting people in layer 6 prenerf
it was a shit load harder back then and we didn't have very good gear
you also have access to unceasing chain link now without it breaking off
so...
dusky vault
yeah pre-nerf was fucking rough
strange python
shrug
stoic needle
Fuck
drowsy hollow
I want conquest, but I know I can't go into anything rated before 197 ilvl
empty cradle
God dam it
I didn't know chain link was unbugged
I've been going into tc without stacking that
hushed totem
is assa rogue is something like an arms warrior where your most damage comes from execute phase if you have the legendary?
strange python
no not at all
fallow otter
without rally
strange python
you HAVE execute
fallow otter
without bshout
strange python
but it's not like HOLY SHIT execute
hushed totem
yeah im not talking about utilities thanks deja
strange python
dk and warrior execute will still make you sad
mental laurel
I’m debating making the swap to sin from sub but I only have around 400 haste and almost 1000 vers. Am I going to be really crippled to start?
hushed totem
i just figured with the blindside and zoldyck its kind of like that:D
balmy condor
I’m debating making the swap to sin from sub but I only have around 400 haste an...
Nah
strange python
it won't be OPTIMAL by any means but switch to whatever whenever you want
you'll be fine
mental laurel
I mean I’m dropping all my dust on a level 4 legendary in either sin or sub and just don’t know which way to go. I haven’t been parsing great in sub but I also have only been using the MA ring
balmy condor
Which spec do you enjoy more
gusty mirage
you lose a lot in raid playing MA as sub, but if you like sin switch sin
mental laurel
Hmm. I always played sin until Shadowlands so I enjoy it raiding, just don’t want to let my raid team down
balmy condor
Then play sin
gusty mirage
imo if you like sin more, you'll naturally play it better
balmy condor
You’ll be able to do fine as either
mental laurel
Is Necro really bad for sin? I enjoy the class fantasy but it’s yet another bleed to keep up
gusty mirage
covenants are within I believe 2% of each other at max renown so its not a huge diff
drowsy hollow
that's cause rogue covenants are that minor
wide prism
how are the buffs feeling for Assassination?
slow marsh
!bis
prisma monolithBOT
Whispyrs Bis list: http://tiny.cc/76r5tz
slow marsh
Zoldyk's on legs right?
hushed totem
is there any vods or kill videos for any raid boss?
strange python
is there any vods or kill videos for any raid boss?
lots just search "castle nathria guide" or "castle nathria (insert difficulty here)" etc etc
add "rogue pov" if you specifically want to see a rogue probably do everything wrong...
hushed totem
i tried everything
strange python
do it on youtube
strange python
OOOOOOOOHHHH specifically a sin pov yeah that will be tough to find
at least till AFTER peeps do them next week
they will no doubt appear throughout the week though
dusky vault
If i get a dagger from my vault I stream some noob assa gameplay hehe
strange python
If i get a dagger from my vault I stream some noob assa gameplay hehe
you and me both
I still have pleb daggers
70+ mythic dungeons in, not a single dagger drop
dusky vault
same; sin simming about 1k less than outlaw rip
signal gulch
Zoldyk's on legs right?
yes
limber lion
Nice
rose condor
@stoic needle how does the other guy feel about the competition? 😉
viral meadow
i'm one HoA away from being #1 sin rogue on my server for M+ <:poggers:652288776...
what talents and leggo do you lean towards?
stoic needle
<@!502859708504342538> how does the other guy feel about the competition? 😉
i'll have you know there's a whole 130 of us
stoic needle
what talents and leggo do you lean towards?
zoldyck forever. talents are the standard aoe build. EP, Subterfuge, MFD, Elusiveness, Iron Wire, Alacrity, CT
i run CT over PB even on tyrannical weeks because I dont think the single target dps boost is worth the aoe dps loss
Elusiveness and Iron Wire are both becoming favorite talents of mine, elusiveness works on so much shit and feint is very spammable and Iron Wire is some very solid DR for kiting tanks like DHs
viral meadow
Thanks. I've got a r3 MA leggo and an r2 zoldycks. reckon youd still stick to zoldycks?
stoic needle
definitely
tender fjord
Does raidbots sim not take zoldycks properly in account? I simmed a 1t 5m patchwerk for the above situation (R2 Zoldyck, R3 MA) and it showed the Zoldycks at a 30dps loss
But would guess Sims are off as Bloodmallet and such also have zoldycks at third most effective legendary, but still everyone says it’s best
stoic needle
It does, it's probably due to the stats on the legs and ring that you're replacing them with in each gear set. And ilvl kinda still trumps all even though zoldyck is the better legendary effect
tender fjord
Ye crafting it r2 on either legs or feet will be a 3ilvl decrease
I’ll hold on to my soul ash until I can craft a r3 one then
Ty
wet tartan
will sin be the go to after the buff for raid ?
tender fjord
What kind off overall dps do u usually end up after a m+ btw @stoic needle? I know it can differ a lot per run but it gives an approximation
tender fjord
will sin be the go to after the buff for raid ?
For a few bosses
balmy condor
will sin be the go to after the buff for raid ?
no, but it'll be good/fine
if you can play outlaw, you should play outlaw
stoic needle
My details has been messed up these past few days so I'm not sure what I pull now with my new gear
wet tartan
new rogue and sub is really fun for me, but i havent crafted a leggo yet and wanted to double check i fi should switch
tender fjord
It’s sad that hunters, comboosters and boomies can do insane overall dps, we kinda pale in comparison
fringe socket
will assa take over after the buff?
tender fjord
Only outlaw is able to get up there a little bit then sadly
stoic needle
In the pugs I've been doing I keep up with the meta classes sometimes but I think that's just because they're bad
tender fjord
😝
Pugged a DOS7 yesterday and was top as assassin as well, but on the other hand they died at least 5 times each 😂
stoic needle
It's always the sign of a depleted key when I'm top dps 
tender fjord
Exactly
balmy condor
will assa take over after the buff?
read the conversation directly above you
tender fjord
I was in it just for the conduit, but the moment nobody took the portals at the venari boss I knew I was doomed
stoic needle
Somehow I managed to time a plaguefall +13 today
The last plaguefall I finished was a +9 3 weeks ago
I shit you not
Every single one in between them was depleted
tender fjord
new rogue and sub is really fun for me, but i havent crafted a leggo yet and wan...
Honest answer, I’d say get a feel for the specs and decide for yourself what your goal is. From there out you can decide what to do
tender fjord
It’s a dungeon where you have to do mechanics, certainly on tyrannical 😂
stoic needle
Everyone leaves at globgrog
Tanks don't know how to kite or dps don't know how to cc
Or the dps is too low to kill him in time
tender fjord
I just don’t understand how people do keys above 8/10 and still don’t know how to do mechanics
ember rover
Any of the big blaster sins wanna tell us if the 5% buff places us within like 1-2% of sub?
balmy condor
Any of the big blaster sins wanna tell us if the 5% buff places us within like 1...
sims in the pin
viral meadow
but WITH PI, you'll beat a sub who doesn't hav it - that's because PI is broken awesome!
ember rover
I mean, you`d still never get it if there's a hunter or DK in your group
viral meadow
I did a pug H sire and a priest gave it to me 10 seconds into the pull
almost fell off my chair
balmy condor
but WITH PI, you'll beat a sub who doesn't hav it - that's because PI is ~~broke...
actually still won't outsim, even with PI
viral meadow
actually still won't outsim, even with PI
why you gotta -- WHY YOU GOTTA COME IN HERE AND RUIN EVERYTHING
balmy condor
I just like being accurate :)
ember rover
I mean, you cant outsim happiness
Sub is better, but Assa will always be the spec ppl enjoy most
viral meadow
Sin sims best in my heart
ember rover
fringe socket
read the conversation directly above you
thank you 🙂
stoic needle
Fuckin saved
safe pendant
are we comfy sin chat yet
balmy condor
5%, yes
stoic needle
are we comfy sin chat yet
The night is dark and full of terrors
ember rover
As it should be
ember rover
I love the first sentence you said
But substract "animations " from it
And it would be perfect
stoic needle
Shadowstrike does look kinda ridiculous
ember rover
What? You dont like the subtle animation of jumping from the literal sky to fucking smack you with the dagger?
frank sparrow
i really like envenom + ambush animations
ember rover
A lot of subtlety into that animation
frank sparrow
cut up cut down
fair storm
Its ninja shit. You wouldnt understand.
stoic needle
I guess I am an uncultured swine
wet tartan
Honest answer, I’d say get a feel for the specs and decide for yourself what you...
thanks bro 🙂
potent raft
i am a bit puzzled from people's responses..
Sub was not viable in BFA, everyone was playing Sin, everyone were complaining how boring it is how fed up they are etc.
SL comes round, Sub is "the best" rogue spec, Sin is nowhere to be found, people rejoyce
Not 2 months in "sub is trash, i am so glad they are finally buffing Sin, the most enjoyable spec"
native lynx
You're a bit puzzled in general I think....outlaw is the "best" rogue spec.
gloomy wigeon
Welcome to World of Warcraft ?
potent raft
You're a bit puzzled in general I think....outlaw is the "best" rogue spec.
it wasnt for the first few weeks
ontopic:
with these buffs, i am having a very hard time picking a niche for Sub atm. If you need overall single target dps, you go outlaw. If you have high movement or important execute you go Sin
I guess "frequent burst windows" is Sub's niche now? So scenarios like Sun King's cloak or Sludgefist pillars (where Sin might still be the better play)
storm onyx
You're a bit puzzled in general I think....outlaw is the "best" rogue spec.
Guaranteed path to carpal tunnel syndrome but yea, little downside
grim hornet
native lynx
it wasnt for the first few weeks
It was, people were just hyped about sub being stronger than it was previously. outlaw was always more damage in the raid.
plain onyx
Any good ol' macros that would make my rotation go easier? thanks
hollow zephyr
What’s for the best potential for pure dps rogues or feral druids. This if for raids abs for mythic plus +
Got
The best dps
errant delta
are sims for buff out yet?
strange python
yea i think subtlety hype wore off
people were just excited that it wasn't BFA subtlety
plain onyx
sins are back on track again
azure yew
So is assa now good for m+ or isboutlaw still a lot better?
azure yew
And for raid?
dusky umbra
even more because in raid the encounters have <= 5 targets
but sin is getting closer
for sure better than sub in cleave dmg
the issue with sin is it becomes a bit clunky spreading dots between more than 2-3 targets
at least for me
hollow zephyr
But how do you have legendarys just for 3 fights in a full raid
dusky umbra
but sub probably better no? in ST?
raven egret
not if youre in execute the whole fight
dusky umbra
true
raven egret
and if ur progging p3 on sire
chances are your bosstime is really bad
boss uptime
which is just better for us than sub or outlaw
dusky umbra
yeah thats where sin shines
i think for sire is ok because u have the adds etc
and they are a bit spread sometimes
also u have the sword
so u can do a bit more
raven egret
yea in p2 u will have 3 ruptures up
sire remornia and the horseman
over the whole phase
primal turret
prisma monolithBOT
Simulations:
Herodamage: https://www.herodamage.com/rogue/
Bloodmallet: https://bloodmallet.com/index.html
frigid sleet
I tried to search for that question in the channel but couldnt find an answer : is the 5% buff live on raidbot ? or if there's a custom simc input line for it ?
quaint siren
So ... could assa be legit rn after another buff
Like worth trying into ST rather than law ?
faint harness
chances are your bosstime is really bad
Why would P3 be bad uptime
quaint siren
yep not optimal but start to be viable
Umm sounds good finally i would really like to play assa again
sick scarab
guys on raidbopt sims there is a way i can see the order of the spell he do in simulation ?
like logs
faint harness
You can find it in the actual simc output
Or by doing a quick sim
And scroll down
open reef
fast Q - what pots and oil/stones use ? and on chest eternal skirmish or stats one ?
gusty mirage
Chest enchant just sim it, use top gear and tick the box that says “replace enchants and gems”. As for pots/oils/etc there’s a paste bin link floating around that I’ll find you the link for
https://pastebin.com/0CnXcRR1 just paste this at the end of an advanced sim in raidbots and it’ll tell you which combo works best
lament dove
am I seeing right that Niya is the best soulbind for NF? I thought it would be Korayn...
chrome ledge
ST is Niya and Korayn is for m+
iron orchid
ST with nyia will be too powerful once we get renown 30
which is this week
Burrs are too strong
copper hazel
which balance and hunters will also have...soo....
faint harness
They gain relatively less compared to their 2 potency setup tho
copper hazel
fair
faint harness
So like If their 2nd best conduit is 3% dps increase, its only a 1% dps increase for them. We get like 2.5% iirc
copper hazel
so its a bit more balanced for us to use it to catch up a bit, i guess
hollow zephyr
hows sin looking for mythic +
drifting cloud
worst rogue spec by a decent margin
hollow zephyr
what about for raid progress
hollow zephyr
isnt sub quite low
drifting cloud
its middle of the pack
tribal marlin
Assa was always the good spec for Sire tbh
best 2 target, best P3 dps and strong 2mn (with execute applied) on mythic adds
hollow zephyr
im stuck between rogue and feral and i dont know what to pick.
tired falcon
Whichever you like more 😛
hollow zephyr
i like the both as they both play similar
quaint siren
Do you wanna be stabby stabby boy/girl or furry wannabe claw beast ?
tribal marlin
I made the maths, with Wed hotfix I'll reach 7400 sim dps in execute range as assa
tired falcon
Feral is much more energy starved than compared to sin
But you do have a bres
+speed boasts
rugged dragon
Aspire, ive been playing outlaw. But its too rng for me and assass just doesnt have the dps output. I started leveling feral since yday to test it out
quaint siren
Aspire, ive been playing outlaw. But its too rng for me and assass just doesnt h...
This ... if assa have same or better numbers than law i wouldnt hesitate to switch from it ... the rng is insane in this soec
tired falcon
I would argue that outlaw is quite consistent dmg and not too much rng
strange python
lf burst dmg
tired falcon
When you get good rolls it does pump, but you still deal quite consistent dmg
hollow zephyr
ive never tried outlaw
rugged dragon
Liulu, on inerva I needed to burst. If I get a shitty roll I do 8k dps in burdt
if I get 2 good rolld, I do 11k-12k
quaint siren
I would argue that outlaw is quite consistent dmg and not too much rng
I did 2 runs of Tirna 16 same people same pulls
1st one - mostly bad rolls all the time 5.5 at the end
2nd one - godlike rolls most of the dungeon = 6.4 at the end
hollow zephyr
@rugged dragon how you liking th feral
rugged dragon
Im sorry, but thats just a big no from me
drifting cloud
thats just wrong.
tired falcon
Uh what?
gusty mirage
I did 2 runs of Tirna 16 same people same pulls
1st one - mostly bad rolls all ...
Rolls won’t impact your dps by 900
quaint siren
Rolls won’t impact your dps by 900
Dude if i get 5 times in a dungeon 5rolls trust me it will seriously boost your dps 😄
rugged dragon
<@!189352960768212994> how you liking th feral
Still leveling at 36 right now, so cant surely say
tired falcon
You can’t compare 2 mists
Different maze
Different packs at end
Different pride spawn time
quaint siren
I compared overall and compared boss dmg
strange python
outlaw is rly steady
rugged dragon
Outlaw's consistent dmg is pretty good yeah, but the fact that a good roll can do so much more than a bad roll. Is just eh.
gusty mirage
But... it can’t do so much more
drifting cloud
thats the whole point, outside of 5s its the same thing
you just cant grasp that concept apparently
quaint siren
But... it can’t do so much more
Actually it does
drifting cloud
go look at no reroll apl
quaint siren
U will really feel the difference once u get 5 rolls
rugged dragon
I like the fact that you guus are saying this, and im out here having way different numbers.
tired falcon
Lol 5 rolls are outliers
gusty mirage
A 5 buff is maybe 300-400dps increase not 1k
tired falcon
1% of that happening
So basically I can go inside 6 dungeon and not get a single 5 roll
quaint siren
A 5 buff is maybe 300-400dps increase not 1k
Imagine getting it 2 times in a row like i did on a prideful and 1st boss
tired falcon
Ok so more of a outlier?
quaint siren
Like its no fairy tale just told u what i experienced
tired falcon
Not sure what you want to prove with that
gusty mirage
Yeah that’s still not going to equate to a 900 dps increase overall
hollow escarp
I guess I don't need to wait for next week to upgrade my pants to rank 4 
hollow zephyr
what legendary do you all have
quaint siren
Also on mythic inerva i really see the difference when i get good rolls and bad rolls and trust me i had somewhere around 70wipes on that shit
So ... its not like 2 runs
rugged dragon
I have around 50 now.
hollow escarp
what legendary do you all have
in general or just assa?
tired falcon
There’s so many variable to an encounter
untold solar
hey guys im just a fairly casual player is the Zoldyck Insignia better on legs or boots? or it doeant matter?
hollow zephyr
assa
hollow escarp
Zoldyck
rugged dragon
what legendary do you all have
Zoldyck & Dashing Scoundrel
slim sable
ofc if you get nice buffs during adds u will do more 😄
quaint siren
If you get hit by an mechanic
Like ... its not worth to atleast try to tell you something
drifting cloud
nah dude getting beams is whatever, its the rolls that kill your dmg 
not the immuned adds or everything else
its the freaking rolls!
quaint siren
Cause u r stubborn ashell and dont accept others 😄 but i am used to it on this discord ngl
rugged dragon
^^^^^
tired falcon
I mean cause your wrong?
gusty mirage
No ones arguing that a 5 buff increases your dps, we’re just saying it’s not going to turn a green parse into a purple parse
tired falcon
It’s not rolls that heavily affects your performance, it’s how you play
gusty mirage
assassination got 5 buffs?
It only got 3, but don’t worry I’m coming home 
quaint siren
It’s not rolls that heavily affects your performance, it’s how you play
Ofc
rugged dragon
no1 said that oxi, but its what I just said. I did 11k-12k- On burst ST inerva, and thats with a BS and the Crit buff.
And with like, BT and the CDR Buff, I do like 8k-9k
strange python
others can double ur burst 😮
gusty mirage
no1 said that oxi, but its what I just said. I did 11k-12k- On burst ST inerva, ...
Sure, a 5 buff will increase your burst. But over an entire fight it’s not as big as people think. But he strictly mentioned how “god rolls” increased his dps in a key by 900 dps
So
rugged dragon
Ah, yeah on a single boss it would, but on overall, nah
gusty mirage
But I’m just happy assa is back in an okay place
rugged dragon
I mean yeah, but it just doesnt pull the numbers in my raid x)
chrome ledge
On a dungeon there is almost no way rolls are going to affect you by much like i did 5 mists yday and my overall was between 6.9-7.3k and thats probably mostly just the difference of the maze and other dps in the group.
quaint siren
I guess not
delicate bone
There’s no doubt that rolls matter, especially when comparing the best matches with everything else. However, more of these overall numbers are due to how tanks are pulling and things of that sense. Overall is a pretty bad thing to determine personal performance from, for every spec honestly
slim sable
did anyone try subterfuge+exsang on sludge?
solemn locust
guys is there any mutilate ambush macro ?
plain thistle
in game macro? no
because thats a script not a macro, you CANT add procs on macros
if you want a stealth macro for ambush non stealth mutilate thats easy
but you cant for procs
something like that should work: /use [bonusbar:1]Ambush;Mutilate
solemn locust
okay ty bro
gleaming eagle
Assa buff
iron orchid
!bs
prisma monolithBOT
Macroing Ambush to Mutilate only works with the use of a addon.
It comes with the downside that it often requires multiple key presss.
Suggested addon to use(Gnome Sequencer):http://tiny.cc/mxb6tz
Showcase Video: #assassination message
strange python
Do you switch between Zoldycks and Dashing Scoundrel for different fights in Castle Nathria?
dusky umbra
i would prefer to switch specs between fights 😅
iron orchid
Yeah, if you think you need to switch something, you'd better switch specs
Anyways, I only use Zoldyck in raid, whatever the fight
dusky umbra
since u can connect a spec to a soulbind tree its easier
ST> Niya+Sub / Cleave> Korayn + Sin
strange python
Yeah ofc, I should have thought of that
sour gorge
is there any haste cap to play assa?
strange python
Have you crafted Zoldyck on feet or legs?
spice spire
is there any haste cap to play assa?
I assume you mean a haste % to make it optimal, and the answer is no
Today’s the day I’m once again disappointed [blessed] with no weapons in the cache 😌
fast nacelle
i think i ll craft zoldyck on feet
considering coming tier sets
but i might wait for crafting until blizz announces the new patch end of the month
native turtle
Oh no we're gonna get a second wave of people going insane in this channel asking about the 5% buff
How many times must there be a "check the pins" spam?
daring pecan
it will never stop
coral imp
fast nacelle
"many" of the current legendaries have old tier sets
plain thistle
zold
strange python
!stats
prisma monolithBOT
**Shadowlands: ** Haste > Versatility => Critical Strike => Mastery
gleaming eagle
did they patch already?
native turtle
Yessir
vast pond
Did they update raidbot yet? Last thing in TC Updates is from Jan 10th.
surreal hawk
I am guessing that a 5% dmg buff to "all damage abilities" does not include stuff like sepsis or am i wrong ?
short token
how is assass looking? still grossly undertuned?
spice spire
grim canopy
how does it feel in m+ now
spice spire
It feels fine in M+
iron orchid
Hard to get into pugs, and they would probably make you hate playing sin anyways. If you play sin with guildmates, you could actually perform well
dark hollow
i haven't paid attention to sin since, hell idk, wotlk-ish. talent variability seems high in fights based on pins. are folks running CT+subterfuge on cleave? or are those reserved for m+/high aoe?
spice spire
I don’t use CT until high aoe is necessary. Almost always use subterfuge for cleave though.
dark hollow
seeing a lot of planning over blindside too which i don't really get either. fun.
spice spire
EP is fine for AOE heavy, I still keep blindside on lighter cleave because I’m a peasant
ornate dawn
Usually I pair planning with CT for M+ and maybe Sunking for some add spam, otherwise its 99% blindside and posion bomb
In M+, if you wanted to you can Garotte 4 enemies using Subterfuge (from stealth)
Certainly helps get a lot of dmg out and has the added bonus of Silencing/grouping adds to help the tank if you take Iron wire
stoic needle
The triple silence on pull is really nice
When I play with a boomkin I always tell them to save their aoe interrupt because a lot of people waste it on the pull when my garottes would do the job fine
The more and more I play the less I miss gouge from outlaw
Like, in theory, sin has less cc than outlaw, but where do you actually need more cc than 2x triple garotte silences, regular kick and kidney, plus the cc/interrupts that your team brings?
Unless the mobs are totally immune to silence that's usually more than enough
daring pecan
gouge is amazing in a lot of dungeons
stoic needle
Like I guess if you're doing some giga MDI triple pulls with 4+ caster mobs... But outlaw wouldn't be any better there
daring pecan
especially because you don't need to waste CPs on kidney
stoic needle
I'm not saying it isn't, I'm just saying that you can get the job done without it
daring pecan
sure enough, I would miss it too much though 
lets me carry most pugs where people are incapable of pressing their CC on houndmasters or similar
stoic needle
Yeah I miss it there, it's annoying to have to kidney or blind to interrupt those
Ive started running rushed setup and it's kinda decent, and I toss out 1cp kidneys for interrupts more than a full stun
split veldt
SIN BOIZ ARE WE GOOD YET, can i finally quit outlaw
split veldt
preach
balmy condor
SIN BOIZ ARE WE GOOD YET, can i finally quit outlaw
outlaw better
split veldt
ornate dawn
i need shrouding suffocation
Amen
stoic needle
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/n2UirjG3yhyzUe1GesvsTG I got blessed with a 223 weapon in the vault, now i'll be up to 5.6k sim dps once i unlock burrs
spice spire
iron orchid
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/n2UirjG3yhyzUe1GesvsTG I got blessed with...
MAN
spice spire
Weapon one time
iron orchid
Go farm dem burrs
fervent beacon
But sin may be better for Sire if you got the executes leggos
stoic needle
plaguefall 13 gave me that weapon lmao
the most cursed dungeon with the best rewards
spice spire
The one where you were top dps?
stoic needle
look at how far ahead deadly poison is from melee now
stoic needle
The one where you were top dps?
LMAO no that one failed at glob
pseudo hamlet
Are we using Subterfuge instead of MA in raid? What about M+?
iron orchid
i got 3 226+ MM+ chests, and 1 226 raid chest
fervent beacon
I also barely topped my 13 PF as meme sin last night
stoic needle
this one was an actually good plaguefall where everyone did the mechanics
iron orchid
hope i get something good tomorrow
fervent beacon
Had a fire mage and boomkin for dps
First time playing sin and I still outdps the fire mage and boomkin in PF 13
fervent beacon
Well there's no sin rogue OFC.
spice spire
I dropped to 13 this week 😦
stoic needle
i wasn't kidding when i said that every single plaguefall i did for weeks did not even finish
stoic needle
i actually kinda love spires
brittle pawn
nightly updated with buff?
spice spire
I do too. And idts shy
I don’t think so?
I did a 10 necrotic (only mythic it’s why I dropped :/) last week and we barely missed time because we had to loop back after the final boss to do 10% trash
fervent beacon
All my dungeons are done minimum 11, just HoA and SD at 11. 3 at 13 and 3 at 12. Did it as chadlaw but I may run sin again for the memes
balmy condor
nightly updated with buff?
yes
celest marlin
Do we have any info is the latest buff going to put assa on #1 rogue s[ec? 😄
balmy condor
Do we have any info is the latest buff going to put assa on #1 rogue s[ec? 😄
it wont
candid token
Just double checking, Burrs beats Pepegos right?
balmy condor
for some people, yeah
it should
but there's still a couple people that sim higher with pelagos
candid token
Arrighty, thanks Wise one
balmy condor
Arrighty, thanks Wise one
vast pond
Has raidbots been update for the buff? I didn't see any notification about it.
balmy condor
yes
vast pond
Thanks. Doesn't seem like my DPS increased from last week. I must've messed something up in the sim.
balmy condor
@stoic needle as a sanity check, chain link doesn't work with garrote does it?
I haven't noticed a difference
but maybe I just haven't paid attention
oh nvm
iron orchid
<@!502859708504342538> as a sanity check, chain link doesn't work with garrote d...
i think it does
balmy condor
totally does
iron orchid
Yup
stoic light
Is assassination gonna be competitive or still crap after changes?
balmy condor
Is assassination gonna be competitive or still crap after changes?
competitive yes, better, no
stoic light
Should I reroll or what’s the deal
balmy condor
if you enjoy sin more than the other specs, or have difficulties performing on them
you can consider it
shadow helm
zoldyck or dashing
shy dust
Zoldyck
solemn locust
the stats for st is crit haste?
shy dust
Probabl ynot
balmy condor
the stats for st is crit haste?
haste > crit/verse
real solar
!fuu
prisma monolithBOT
Fuus Shadowlands evaluation Spreadsheet: http://tiny.cc/uxr1tz
real solar
!guide
prisma monolithBOT
real solar
y'all going Zoldyck on legs?
shy dust
yes
iron orchid
I simmed at 5.6k before the buff, now if i sim Burrs + 5% buff it goes up to 5.92k
And if i sim a 226 Main hand, i hit 6.07k
Please vault
226 dagger
shy dust
balmy condor
shadow helm
BIG SAD
stoic needle
<@!502859708504342538> as a sanity check, chain link doesn't work with garrote d...
I'm pretty sure it does
shadow helm
crit haste for zoldyck legs rite
balmy condor
Yeh it does
balmy condor
crit haste for zoldyck legs rite
Yeah
shadow helm
c00l
frail fossil
toxic tusk
Fuck yeah weapon from vault
worldly echo
Wow congrats @toxic tusk
topaz saffron
I'll give up my Vault weapon for yours 🙏
worldly echo
Anyone know if the assassin 5% buff is live in raidbots yet?
toxic tusk
It's a 216, up from 184
balmy condor
Anyone know if the assassin 5% buff is live in raidbots yet?
It is
spice spire
I’d gladly sacrifice my weapon for my mans Deï to get a 226
balmy condor
Im a greedy asshole you all can suffer while I eat grapes off of my 226 mainhand with avoidance
spice spire
Whispyr 😡
brittle pawn
someone sacrifice for me too plz 
shy dust
Any 2x 233
brittle pawn
222 overall with these things
balmy condor
Look at this peasant
spice spire
190 offhand gang 
real solar
<333
shy dust
Whispyr 
real solar
I got 4 233 weps :)))))
shy dust
spice spire
I see, I too am 225 minus 15
topaz saffron
200 & 194 Gang, literally suffering 🥲
frozen jasper
I see i am very low here with my 209 ilvl lol
balmy condor
I live vicariously through people that play better than me by repeatedly telling them they’re wrong
spice spire
Don’t let the sub boys bully you. They got their gear by playing a spec that exists
balmy condor
We’re all sin gamers now
It’s a family reunion
Everyone took some time off to play literally everything else
spice spire
Cozy sin chat 
balmy condor
But we all get to be together for the.... holidays?
iron orchid
Everyone took some time off to play literally everything else
well ....
spice spire
Sure!
balmy condor
iron orchid
spice spire
You know sin’s back when the 34 memes return
shy dust
Never left just got boring
balmy condor
Need banned streamer to say some shit
spice spire
^
balmy condor
Just so I can feel something
spice spire
Whispyr can feel nothing but rage
balmy condor
It’s true, we go to therapy for anger issues and depression
upper mortar
Is the buff on nightly on raidbots or not ?
balmy condor
Yes
upper mortar
thanks
river vessel
my sim didnt go up, fake buff guys.
balmy condor
shy dust
river vessel
safe pendant
Whispyr stream 
balmy condor
past mauve
What, if any, do you guys macro the Dreadfire Vessel use with? Its a 1.5min cd - so I could hold it to use with Vendetta or pair it to Sepsis (Im NF and sepsis is a 1.5min cd)
balmy condor
What, if any, do you guys macro the Dreadfire Vessel use with? Its a 1.5min cd -...
Just on cooldown
past mauve
kk
fervent zodiac
What is the best sin leggo? Should I upgrade my MA or craft doom blade?
balmy condor
Zold
fervent zodiac
So you think craft zold?
shy dust
Yes
balmy condor
Yes
fervent zodiac
And for sure on legs? Despite me having 220 legs?
spice spire
Short term, boots are fine
ionic hemlock
The renown cap is 30 at the moment? Assuming you've kept up with it every week?
ionic hemlock
Brilliant shouldn't take long for my alt to catch up.
cerulean kernel
Brilliant shouldn't take long for my alt to catch up.
The key is to not complete the 2 weeklys until you are 2 away from cap
ionic hemlock
Oh, interesting.
cerulean kernel
I just brought up a lock and caught up
It takes some time but possible to catch up in a week
Still stalking this channel to see some Big D sin sims
stoic needle
200 & 194 Gang, literally suffering 🥲
Get into some RBGs man
I literally went up 8 ilvl in ONE WEEK last week doing RBGs to 1600
Took me like 45 games at a ~50% win rate
balmy condor
Still stalking this channel to see some Big D sin sims
Just wait till I update the bis list
stoic needle
Went from mostly 200 gear to 213 everything
icy crater
internal bleeding and mutilate bleed count towards doomblade yeah?
stoic needle
Yep
stoic needle
Man, when you kidney things, they fucking die
How to get 1600 as sin:
Step 1: craft doomblade
Step 2: talent internal bleeding
Step 3: join a pug with discord
Step 4: go into teamfights and MFD kidney the kill targets
topaz saffron
I literally have never touched pvp I wouldn't have a clue where to start
stoic needle
Step 5: ????
Step 6: profit!
Start doing random BGs
And arena skirmishes
To get a feel for it
safe pendant
RBGs can be brutal sometimes if the other team is really good
stoic needle
In BGs your job is to either delay people from capping points with sap/blind, or ninja cap points when people leave them, or to focus fire healers or flag carriers
safe pendant
But 1600 in a week can be doable
stoic needle
Yeah it can be rough, but you will rarely encounter teams like that going to 1600
And the benefits are huge if you're undergeared
Oh you want to get a full set of the honor pvp gear in the slots where you don't have vers and upgrade it to 197
quaint siren
Hey guys, with what stats are you crafting zold leggo ?
stoic needle
That's huge
balmy condor
Hey guys, with what stats are you crafting zold leggo ?
haste crit
quaint siren
Ty
heavy vessel
Whats better for Nadia, the second potency conduit or dauntless duelist?
stoic needle
Even if it's an ilvl downgrade you want to get the honor gear
balmy condor
Whats better for Nadia, the second potency conduit or dauntless duelist?
sim it, gonna be duelist tho
heavy vessel
thanks
spice spire
Haste reduction 
spice spire
I only don’t do haste reduction. Any reminder of torghast just reminds me how much I hate that affix
safe pendant
Would the shield in stealth conduit help in soulforges?
tribal mauve
haste crit
someone told me yesterday vers haste is fine too
balmy condor
that someone was me
tribal mauve
Oh xD
fleet whale
it isn't a large difference either way
balmy condor
its actually completely irrelevant tbh
if you go haste/crit, your sim will just suggest 1 extra piece of vers or something down the line as a side grade
lucid ruin
How's sin damage after the recent % adjustment? Viable now?
grim canopy
now its overviable
shrewd helm
dark hollow
two silly questions: does sepsis cause MA on dot expiry? do you want to hold sepsis for shiv always, or just sepsis on CD?
balmy condor
- no
- on cd
dark hollow
ty.
rustic thunder
lmao assa is gonna be op once 9.1 hits and we get even more gear
balmy condor
no it won't
royal lantern
eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeehhhhhh
little moth
lmaooo
balmy condor
get some more original bait
royal lantern
oblique flare
slow marsh
Did anyone try out Venthyr and are the double haste buffs + 3% dmg better than Echoing Reprimand? Been thinking of swapping but sims tell me it wouldn't make sense to downgrade
balmy condor
venthyr is about 2-3% worse than kyrian on single target
usually
not sure about 30 renown breakpoint bullshit
slow marsh
I feel like the double haste % buffs could be really good moving forward as we stack haste values but echoing reprimand's ease of use+ next week 5% crit flat for kleia is just better, right?
wanton quarry
What is this double haste % buff ?
slow marsh
I'm thinking moving forward next patch theory craft btw, I'd rather swap now if i'm gonna have to swap later anyways
stoic needle
it's just not enough haste and the buff isn't up long enough
slow marsh
Flagelation gives you up to 15% haste and nadjia or whatever gives 20% when it procs
primal gazelle
did torghast as assa just to test it out...
my god my aoe is trash
crit is way too low
slow marsh
it's just not enough haste and the buff isn't up long enough
Yeah that's the one thing that keeps me hesitant is that you can't necessarily just get it on demand
stoic needle
yes, but thrill seeker procs during mechanics more often than it procs on bosses
that's why it's shit
sick scarab
i get OWNED in twisted corrydors floor 18 last boss.. no way i can kill those bosses it seems i go solo
any of you did all solo ?
balmy condor
I'm thinking moving forward next patch theory craft btw, I'd rather swap now if ...
problem is that it's feelycraft more than actual theorycraft
slow marsh
yep it is
stoic needle
if they removed the 2nd gcd and energy cost from flag reactivation, and made the thrill seeker also activate when you used flag instead of randomly, venthyr would actually be really useable
but as it is now it's very clunky
slow marsh
True true got it mixed up. I'll stay Kyrian and wait for kleia next week
I wish necro bleed stacked with our class abilities
stoic needle
same
slow marsh
Doesn't super make sense that it doesn't
hollow zephyr
Is assassin aoe really bad I assumed it would be decent with multi garrottes and poisons
primal gazelle
you use FOK to generate cp
but your crit is so low
it doesnt even crit often to generation cp off seal fate
balmy condor
Is assassin aoe really bad I assumed it would be decent with multi garrottes and...
its pretty strong 2-5 target
but you just run out of CP and time to multi dot past that
so you're stuck with CT
which isn't really that great
so the question is how big is the aoe
strange python
prolly had this question asked a billion times but is zoldyck better on feet or legs?
hollow zephyr
I thought CT was good
slow marsh
legs
strange python
!stats
prisma monolithBOT
**Shadowlands: ** Haste > Versatility => Critical Strike => Mastery
strange python
haste/vers?
hollow zephyr
8 targets then your poisons then fan of knifes
strange python
kk
balmy condor
I thought CT was good
it is, it's just not good enough for it to make our 6-8 target competitive with other classes that have actual aoe
carmine flare
does raidbots currently account for the 5% buff
autumn tiger
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's:
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
balmy condor
does raidbots currently account for the 5% buff
yes
balmy condor
yeh, all good
hardy rapids
prisma monolithBOT
**Shadowlands: ** Haste > Versatility => Critical Strike => Mastery
molten shale
is todays sin buff really going to help with anything or we still looking at Sub/Outlaw for raiding?
strange python
outlaw will still outshine all specs probably but sin should atleast be in the realm of viability now.....like bosses that have downtime sin will prolly do better than sub
balmy condor
if you suck at them, or don't like them, you can play sin
drifting light
are raidbots including the 5% buff in current sims?
tropic pike
considering trying out sin in arena :)
spice spire
are raidbots including the 5% buff in current sims?
Yes
drifting light
😦
balmy condor
why the frown
honest lake
Sin will do pretty well in sludgefist, right?
mystic surge
What does >= mean in the pinned messages
reef axle
Looking at crit/haste for sin leggo?
turbid glacier
What does >= mean in the pinned messages
greater than or equal to
icy crater
anyone know if DFA calculates crit when you hit the button or right before you do the damage?
For instance if you have 1 second left on MA and press DFA I'm wondering if it has the crit chance
balmy condor
anyone know if DFA calculates crit when you hit the button or right before you d...
I believe it's calculated from keypress
icy crater
I guess I can test it and find out for sure!
I managed to reliably hit 30k envenoms on the 60 dummy, can't wait to try in PVP
in the opener..
forest swallow
Zold is the best leggo for m+ and raid with ads?
balmy condor
just in total
iron orchid
Mists 17 in EU, last key before reset (:
stoic needle
I managed to reliably hit 30k envenoms on the 60 dummy, can't wait to try in PVP
That sounds fucking huge lmao
spice spire
Deï is out here being a real Assassin gamer
thin kernel
Not so bad for total with outlaw conduits and PB
spice spire
Imagine with a 226 Weapon
tender fjord
I wish necro bleed stacked with our class abilities
Should trigger the passive energy regen imo
upper sierra
!bis
prisma monolithBOT
Whispyrs Bis list: http://tiny.cc/76r5tz
stoic needle
i think there are several abilities in the game that do more damage than the tooltip says
like sepsis
balmy condor
I was hitting 40k on first boss in mists with shiv vendetta
balmy condor
i think there are several abilities in the game that do more damage than the too...
you.... you mean all of them?
stoic needle
well the tooltips scale with your attack power
but even then, sepsis does way more damage than the tooltip says even without shiv and other damage amps in the equation
spice spire
What you’re saying is, I should be doing 30k mutilates
stoic needle
if only
balmy condor
but they take a lot more into consideration than just attack power
stoic needle
unceasing chain link conduit when?
spice spire
Unceasing chain is saved for sepsis
stoic needle
my point is that the tooltips arent quite accurate
fleet whale
with the WQ rewards being updated, will that bell trinket from bastion be good?
also does anyone know if shiv buffs burs
stoic needle
If it buffs sepsis it should buff burrs
real solar
!stats
prisma monolithBOT
**Shadowlands: ** Haste > Versatility => Critical Strike => Mastery
vale marten
you got windfury in raid?
real solar
mhm
shy dust
needs Burrs
vale marten
damn, lucky bastard
real solar
hardstuck kyrian
orchid gust
whats the best slot for dashing scoundrel lego?
spice spire
Boots
balmy condor
not even close to my sub sim yet 😦
I'm like 350 dps under that at 213
inner seal
Quick question. For M+ how much crit and haste do you think we will need for assa ?
real solar
@balmy condor :(((((((((((
real solar
maybe i just stay sub - https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/xmoGGkNUWp6uJQYaD6BQ5E
and yeet myself out of this channel
icy crater
@balmy condor
stoic needle
i wonder if the pvp gear was heavy haste instead of heavy vers if it'd be different
icy crater
worked out to ~22k on a 30% vers windwalker
balmy condor
oh
icy crater
and not the elite dummy
balmy condor
30k on a kyrian
icy crater
yea
balmy condor
well that makes more sense
icy crater
Sorry If I mislead you
stoic needle
oh okay\
icy crater
I was going to switch this week
stoic needle
god ER is sick
icy crater
Now I'm reconsidering..
icy crater
pvp its about ~4k
stoic needle
i think they still go fae
icy crater
def fae for sub
stoic needle
because phial is less useful now because of cloaked in shadows
and soulshape is bonkers
icy crater
also resets are just the only way sub does any damage at all
but I think kyrian could be good for assa in pvp
stoic needle
jesus
icy crater
The sick thing about that video is yeah 30k is pog but you still fit 2 more envs in your crit window