assassination

[stoic needle]

Sin stonks rising

[pulsar sluice]

doomblade gang

[random fossil]

what build did he play?

[stoic needle]

What legendary was he using?

[crisp glen]

doomblade apparently

[stoic needle]

I just crafted one lol

Like literally the other day

[strange python]

lmao pikaboo with the reverse sweep as sin rogue

[crisp glen]

THE FORESIGHT

[random fossil]

so no envenom crit memes? actual sin pvp build?

[stoic needle]

You may call me oshosistradamus

[stoic needle]

What conduits though

[open swift]

idk

[sudden brook]

probably well placed steel

and then just some defensive shit

[dense narwhal]

Assassination is like tai chi. The flow of the rotation is like butter

[pulsar sluice]

im gonna guess lethal poison or the sepsis one + well placed steel

[open swift]

yes it was

[sudden brook]

hes probably not playing 2 potencies

cuz rogue potencies suck

but he will probs stream sin tonight

and u can probably ask him then

[stoic needle]

Septic shock makes sepsis hit like a truck

[strange python]

Again 5% buff....sweet

[stoic needle]

That's what I'm curious about

[pulsar sluice]

yeah true and with burrs coming tuesday 1 potency is all u need

[sudden brook]

well u probs dont play that in pvp

because its just poison bomb

u just kinda walk out of it

[hollow escarp]

pretty sure I've heard him play the sepsis conduit

but that was on sub

[dense hamlet]

poggers?

i mean yeah potency conduits do nothing for sub

but for assas its not so bad wellplace steel and the poison noe

one

i wanna see more assas

[sudden brook]

u wont other than from pika cuz nobody has practiced it yet

[dense hamlet]

yeah

[hollow escarp]

he crafted doomblade 2nd week

[dense hamlet]

they did play it in tournoment realm

[hollow escarp]

you're right

access to tournament realm is so big just to test stuff like that

[dense hamlet]

yeah he was like its not that bad with the good gear and everything

i think they played with the cdr vanish one for double kidney for the lack of cc with sin

idk it might be the next level

[frail fossil]

i went against a sin rogue once

he was fkcing gond

actually wrecked my ass

vendetta still giga scary

[dense hamlet]

man borngood is the most agressive hpala there is

[dense hamlet]

yeah and the fact that its off gcd u can just kill rogues with them vanishing it feels kinda good

[frail fossil]

i really like sin pvp

constant pressure

[dense hamlet]

i think next tier assas will be the better spec for pvp

if theres less oneshots

[steady jackal]

Is it worth to change from kyrian to nf? I feel kyrian is super clunky

[dense hamlet]

yes it is indeed clunky

[frail fossil]

how is it ?

i love kyrian

[dense hamlet]

the cp thing

[frail fossil]

and yes it's fine to go to NF

the cp is giga easy to do

like u have 45sec

[dense hamlet]

yeah u have time

but still

[frail fossil]

it's literally the easiest to land on as sin

[stoic needle]

been saying this for months

oneshots are on their way out as ppl get more vers gear

[frail fossil]

i can understand it being tilting as sub with shadow techniques

[steady jackal]

like you use nf ability and you can forget about it until next one

[frail fossil]

but again u can track it

for sin, u can just refresh garrote and get ur anima charged cp

[stoic needle]

i'm curious about the poison one vs burrs for pvp

[dense hamlet]

its just the gear overall u get gear u dont get deleted when u go to touch a warrior to dot him and he slams u in the face and ur 40% and u have to fucking run

[south nest]

Hello everyone, I have a question. In the burst phase with Shiv, do you use there envenom with 2-3 cp or do you use your envenom further with 5-6 cp like in the normal rota?

[dense hamlet]

i mean fire sub will still be better but sin is coming in

yeah u use 5or 6 cp envenoms

like the point is to fit in more envenoms with max cps as possible

but u cant always

u will run out of energy

[strange python]

lol pika legit played him in AWC

[dense hamlet]

yeah i mean they were like fuck it

[eternal herald]

pika is making assa gr8 again

[sleek otter]

assassa is good in pvp atm

so much pressure

I have no idea why people say its so bad

[frail fossil]

when the sin rogue vendeatta into double envenoms

[stoic needle]

cuz you cant play it like sub

[sleek otter]

with the crit legendary its so good

[stoic needle]

man

i literally deleted a prot pally with 55k hp the other day with doomblade trying to FC in WSG

[strange python]

?

[stoic needle]

kidney, double mfd envenom

motherfucker ceased to exist

[sleek otter]

I have doomblade too but crit legend is just so damn good

[stoic needle]

idk what you dont understand about it

[strange python]

FC WSG ?

[sleek otter]

sepsis and stealth and bam someone is deleted

[stoic needle]

a prot paladin was trying to flag carry in WSG

he had 55k hp

[strange python]

aa

[stoic needle]

i obliterated him

garotte, mut, rupture, kidney, mfd envenom mut crit into another envenom

each envenom crit and did like 12k+

[dense hamlet]

i mean if assas had a legendary like finality

to make rupture and envenom hit 25% more

that would be fucking good

[sleek otter]

would def be godly in pve

[stoic needle]

finality should just be spec neutral

and work on the spec's version of evis and 1 extra ability

[hollow escarp]

but finality does work with assa

[stoic needle]

only on rupture though 😦

[sleek otter]

only on rupture

[hollow escarp]

yeah, ofc

[sleek otter]

Wish it worked with envenom

[dense hamlet]

yeah thats i think a bug

that was not intended ithink

[sleek otter]

or hell maybe even crimson tempest

[stoic needle]

for sin: rupture, CT, envenom. for sub: rupture, evis, BP. for outlaw, dispatch, bte, idk

[dense hamlet]

its like prot legendary with ret

[sleek otter]

Yea that would super nice

[dense hamlet]

they should make taht a thing

[stoic needle]

that would be so awesome

[sleek otter]

maybe buff master assassin talent to what it is on the legendary and then make master assassin legend sub only

and change finality

to all specs

[dense hamlet]

i mean its too lat

[stoic needle]

maybe they could make MA give a lesser value crit buff on shadow dance

like 10% or 15% or something

and full 100% out of stealth/vanish

it is too late but we can dream

[rough scaffold]

Anyone try Dashing scoundrel legendary yet?

[sleek otter]

yea that combined with symbols conduit

[stoic needle]

dashing is just bad

for pvp

[sleek otter]

I actually just got it yesterday

[dense hamlet]

i dont think that is even good in pvp

[stoic needle]

you dont get the uptime and the energy is not enough

[dense hamlet]

u have to play deadly poison for it

[stoic needle]

sin feels bad with wound vs deadly ngl

[rough scaffold]

I just got it in raid finder

[sleek otter]

You have to play deadly over wound anyways when playing with a healer

deadly is just so much damage, its just so bad to give it up imo

[rough scaffold]

Oshi you tried it in pvp?

[dense hamlet]

no dont try it

u can do it for raiding

its good

dont pvp it

[sleek otter]

I have tried it, and it does great. you kill someone in a stun anyways

[stoic needle]

honestly its not even good in pve

it's sim bait

[sleek otter]

whos healing in a stun?

[rough scaffold]

damn i keep I keep getting memorys that.... seem cool but arent worth building

[primal gazelle]

how is sin in m+ with these buffs?

[dense hamlet]

yeah they seems cool and it might get better with better gear

[sleek otter]

oh ur talking about dashing

[stoic needle]

like its only good for single target, and it removes the execute niche which is the whole reason you bring sin in pve

[toxic tusk]

How high of mythic plus?

[gusty hollow]

Hey guys! Im rogue and might have taken the necrolords to close to my heart. Anyone know which soulbind is the best ?

[primal gazelle]

15-20 ish

[stoic needle]

i mean sin just gets better the higher M+ you do

[rough scaffold]

I got dashing and I got the rotten last week (I may build Rotten? Seems like a free MFD>)

[primal gazelle]

im 1800 io with outlaw but wanna try something new

[stoic needle]

but in really high keys you dont bring rogue period, and playing sin isn't gonna change that

someone here got ksm playing sin only

someone else was talking about how they timed a +18 easily as sin

[dense hamlet]

yeah its not bad u do good boss dmg still and aoe is there

but outlaw is easier and does more

thats why more ppl play it

[toxic tusk]

I find my dps on trash pulls isn’t great but I can do pretty well on bosses.

[azure carbon]

Man, looking at logs by ilvl, seems like in ilvls with a decent amount of Sin logs Sin and Sub are literally neck in neck right now.

[stoic needle]

yep

[azure carbon]

Sin might just be hard better than sub next week.

[dense hamlet]

i mean if tank is pulling for hunters and mages like 20 mobs

ur not gonna get close to a hunter or mage

but still its there

[stoic needle]

if your dps on trash pulls isn't great in keys you're probably doing lower keys

on like 11+ keys i do like 5-6k overall every pull

without CDS

[azure carbon]

Sin looks fucky / bad in ilvl groups with low number of logs. Skews the data a lot.

[stoic needle]

because things live long enough for dots to tick

[azure carbon]

But from 205-215, Sin and Sub are identical in terms of logs.

[stoic needle]

that has been my experience

give me an equally geared sub rogue and i will match them or beat them in a pug

heroic pugs mind you

[rough scaffold]

I started Shadowlands on Sin playing with a M-Hunter - a low lvl she was doing 60% more dmg. Now that we are both 190 I am destorying her dmg. We got that 8% and seem to be scaling fairly well too

[kind veldt]

!guides

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
RH: https://www.ravenholdt.net/guides/assassination-rogue-guide-shadowlands-raid-dps/
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide

[stoic needle]

just wait until we get first strike in 2 weeks

[glossy turret]

Any sims with the incoming changes?

[hollow escarp]

in pins

[rough scaffold]

what first strike? how

[hollow escarp]

the most recent one

[stoic needle]

the korayn final trait

+25% crit for 5 seconds

if it refreshes on each new target hit

[hollow escarp]

if you attack first

[rough scaffold]

damn!

[dense hamlet]

yeah if its like alpha tiger for monks it will be crazy good

[stoic needle]

you get +25% crit while you get your garottes up, and then 5 more seconds after that

that helps our CP gen in aoe so much

which is one of our major problems atm

[hollow escarp]

seems like korayn looks nice for m+ and niya for raids

[azure carbon]

I think Sin likely scales better too; Crit and Vers are flat aura buffs and Sin likes haste more than Sub/OL.

[fleet whale]

uh oh

you said the s word lol

[azure carbon]

lol

[stoic needle]

you better be careful saying the S word or whispyr's gonna wake up and bonk you

[north basin]

s c a l e

[azure carbon]

It is kinda a troll factor, so much borrowed power.

[hollow escarp]

[rough scaffold]

Im doing really well in pvp and i built eveyrhting haste. all haste enchantes and using some PVE metta like blindside

[stoic needle]

i hold my own in pvp

[toxic tusk]

I hold my own in world pvp. Arenas I get dismantled.

[stoic needle]

if someone doesn't kick me immediately from a game for not being sub they don't complain after a few games

[rocky ruin]

Are guys trying to play sin for aoe or focused target in m+?

[stoic needle]

well thats the thing about sin, it's just consistent all the time

[stoic needle]

but its cleave and aoe is definitely its strong point

[rough scaffold]

My wife is gearing a holy pal for twos with my Sin Rogue. We did that back in MOP and did really well.

[azure carbon]

Like this is Sin's most populated ilvl for logs, and its identical to sub, and its getting a 3.5% buff.

[rough scaffold]

(I married my healer! 🙂

[hollow escarp]

does she PI you?

[crisp glen]

only when late for dinner

[hollow escarp]

[rough scaffold]

[hushed totem]

is there a somewhat baseline pvp guide for sin?

[stoic needle]

Hpal is really good with sin in 2s

The bop helps

And they do more damage than you do

[kind veldt]

With the 5 percent buffs, you think sin going to be more raid viable? Taking over sub?

[brittle pawn]

supatease calling vendetta envenom constantly

[dense hamlet]

yeah it might

cuz it has move cleave than sub does way more

but the thing is

5% is a aura buff

25% of ur dmg is melee

with slice up

[grave cove]

!stats

[prisma monolith]

**Shadowlands: ** Haste > Versatility => Critical Strike => Mastery

[stoic needle]

It's actually much less than that

During an actual fight melee is like 15% of my damage, with 98% slice and dice uptime

Deadly and instant poison are 21% total

[dense hamlet]

i mean u mean raiding?

[stoic needle]

Yes

[dense hamlet]

raiding on st alot of ur dmg is melee

[stoic needle]

Again, it's 3rd at best

[dense hamlet]

its not best like fuck the melee

[stoic needle]

It's usually poisons, then envenom, then melee, then garotte and rupture

This buff will even further push melee down

[dense hamlet]

it dosent feel right having that much melee dm,g

[stoic needle]

And more gear will also buff dots

[sonic iris]

so we all here because of the upcoming buffs or AWC

or both

[dense hamlet]

buffs

awc was just pika doing pika things

[stoic needle]

The more haste I got the lower % of my damage melee became

[toxic tusk]

We’re all sinners here.

[sonic iris]

right on

[stoic needle]

I've been sin since before the first 5% buff

[dense hamlet]

imgaine going dampen with trill in game

[grave cove]

Is the 5% buff to every source of dmg? Can I just multiply my current sim with 1.05?

[dense hamlet]

not on melee

but other than melee yes

[grave cove]

hmm ok

[stoic needle]

override.spell_data="effect.179721.base_value=51"
override.spell_data="effect.191052.base_value=51"

[toxic tusk]

My melee is my biggest damage dealer. That would’ve been great.

[kind veldt]

Saying dashing@scoundrel is best for ST but looks like all too parsers using zoldycks

[stoic needle]

Go into raidbots and put your simc input into the advanced sim section

And put that after it

That will simulate the buff

[grave cove]

Gnarly thx oshosi

[dense hamlet]

insignia is good aswell

[stoic needle]

Zoldyck is better overall

You're memeing if you don't use zoldyck

The execute is the whole reason you bring sin in pve

Without that you're just a worse sub rogue

[toxic tusk]

And no one likes sub rogues.

[stoic needle]

There's very few fights that are pure ST to make dashing worth the craft

Maybe once we get to use 2 leggos

As soon as there's even 1 add in the fight zoldyck is better

[toxic tusk]

What about lady what’s her face in castle?

I barely move in that fight.

[stoic needle]

Inerva?

[torpid spoke]

Sucks that sins only have one shadow step though

[stoic needle]

It's got adds

That's what soulshape is for

[torpid spoke]

Can’t double shadow to side adds

Then back

In sire fight

[desert swallow]

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Fuus Shadowlands evaluation Spreadsheet: http://tiny.cc/uxr1tz

[torpid spoke]

But then again you can use his suck as a step

[stoic needle]

You shouldn't be needed to dps the range adds

Tbh

[dense hamlet]

yeah doing that is just extra

[toxic tusk]

I only have to switch off her for the big Tanky boo and then I’m back on her.

I’ve got the soul ash sitting around doing nothing. Almost. Might as well waste it.

[stoic needle]

I pool combo points on inerva as she's casting the add summon spell, run over and garotte+rup the small add then shadow step to the large one and tunnel it

[brittle pawn]

tunneling adds

[stoic needle]

And make sure to refresh rupture and garotte on inerva

I mean you do more damage if you swap

Because of zoldyck

[zenith mesa]

!bs

[prisma monolith]

Macroing Ambush to Mutilate only works with the use of a addon.
It comes with the downside that it often requires multiple key presss.
Suggested addon to use(Gnome Sequencer):http://tiny.cc/mxb6tz
Showcase Video: #assassination message

[stoic needle]

Instant poison procs which are like one of your biggest damage sources scale with zoldyck

[manic harness]

so assassination sim is now updated for Tuesday?

[brittle pawn]

no

[manic harness]

oh I misunderstood then

[brittle pawn]

there's an advanced sim input you can use

[kind veldt]

weird, there is a macro for shadowstrike/back stab

why doesnt ambush mutilate work?

#showtooltip Shadowstrike
/cast [bonusbar:1] Shadowstrike; Backstab; Gloomblade for backstab/shadowstrike

[brittle pawn]

because you don't want to use ambush like that

[balmy condor]

and also that doesn't work with blindsie

because blindside makes ambush castable out of stealth

which is not a bonus bar

[kind veldt]

ah

so, separate bind for ambush

[balmy condor]

yes

[kind veldt]

Im be a sad boy walkin around with a 190 for 1 week xD

[gleaming sorrel]

do u actually use ambush with sepsis proc?

[signal gulch]

no

[gleaming sorrel]

alright thx

[balmy condor]

it's a wash

you can do whatever with it

both are fine

just easier imo to not

[dense hamlet]

does sepsis proc give u the subterfuge dmg on garrote or not cuz saw it gives the silence

[fleet whale]

nah it doesn't give you subter

[dense hamlet]

shit game

[fleet whale]

it works like shadowmeld

if that makes sense

[dense hamlet]

yeah ik

[fleet whale]

if SS still existed

[gleaming sorrel]

so you dont acually use the sepsis proc other than cheap shot in pvp or smth?

[fleet whale]

than sepsis garrote would be buffed by ss

[open swift]

blindside is best talent for torghast if you have the anima power that gives you a 5 point rupture everytime you ambush

[fleet whale]

i personally like MP more

for torghast

[balmy condor]

correct

[fleet whale]

just imagine how great sin will be in torghast

after this buff

[balmy condor]

about 5% better

[normal spoke]

hehehe

rogues... that chain link buff in torghast... i cant believe it is not nerfed yet... imagine hitting with shadowstrike or sinister strike... or mutilate... and hitting at 450% increase dmg?

[fleet whale]

torghast powers are made to be good

plus it literally just got fixed lol

[normal spoke]

no way

you talking about the one i am talking about?

[fleet whale]

you would keep losing ranks of that power

every floor you would go up

[normal spoke]

wait what?

explain... in simple and detailed english

[balmy condor]

unchained linked

used to go bye bye

now it does not go bye bye

[fleet whale]

in my layer six run, i had like 100% extra crit damage

with 89% crit

it was insane

[low girder]

Didn't it also get buffed with the rework

For our powers

Think it used to be god awful lol

[fleet whale]

a lot of our powers got buffed so it wouldn't surprise me

in the final boss, i got a 1.3 mil envenom crit

[low girder]

Oh I guess it was 100% still

[dense hamlet]

wait can u eve and dodge impale?

[low girder]

So not terrible

[balmy condor]

on altimor?

[dense hamlet]

on sire

[balmy condor]

oh

[low girder]

It can be dodged so possibly

[dense hamlet]

ik it dosent work on altimor

but on sire impale idk

it would be sick

[fleet whale]

you could for science it

and tell us the results

[low girder]

Believe the massacre can be dodged too

[dense hamlet]

yeah im not sure about that

[low girder]

I'd have to double check though

[dense hamlet]

u can cloak that aswell

[open swift]

sin rogue in torghast is rough if you dont get lucky

[dense hamlet]

just get the stepsis one and bang the final boss with terragrue

im surprised they dont remove it

or give immunity to terragrue

[open swift]

how do you even use the terragrue

[dense hamlet]

ui just die

and he comes for u

u eve face tank it

[open swift]

sounds cheesy

[dense hamlet]

and use stepsis

yeah but it works

atleast rogues have that for torghast

im sure that will be nerfed soon

just u wait

but the aoe with chain links feel good aswell

[tender sable]

I got 3.77 million hit in Thorgast by Sepsis power (15% max hp poison damage)
is it even legal?
I used sepsis into shiv into vendetta with EP
but it looks too much for me anyway

[grim canopy]

it should be unlegal

[balmy condor]

no, that's normal

[copper hazel]

thats the point of it

[tender sable]

that was like 70%+ boss hp

my initial reaction was that it def a bug XD

[icy crater]

How fast is renown catch up? I'm swtiching from kyrian to NF I think.

[tender sable]

took me 2 weeks relaxed gaming

[icy crater]

Ok, sweet.

[stoic needle]

I did it in 1 week of fairly serious gaming

[normal spoke]

so since rbgs are the best way to gear nowadays...

you can literally use it to catch up... renown levels get rewarded from some wins

[mortal tartan]

I did all lfr wings and got like 6 renown

On my feral

[normal spoke]

there ya go... nuff said

[stoic needle]

Just make sure you are up to date on the campaign

Or you can't get catch up renown

It's different for alts

[open swift]

super fast

i got to renown 28 in a week

im not sure how it works entirely

I got renown from bg's and world quest bosses

[glossy turret]

If you want to fully catch up, make sure you only do the two weekly at the end, if you do them first you will be -2 renowns from the max renown

[tired adder]

Lucky I'm stuck on 24 (after 1.5 week)

[oblique flare]

Does Bloodfang bleed count towards energy reg?

[balmy condor]

no

[oblique flare]

yikes

[balmy condor]

why is that yikes

[oblique flare]

more sustain, more rot, more energy reg which would punish feint usage less

[balmy condor]

the sustain is the bleed

the rot is the bleed

[oblique flare]

nah, meant as in allowing me to apply the other bleeds more easily, and mainly for pvp as that's where you feel the starvation

[vocal cipher]

!bis

[prisma monolith]

Whispyrs Bis list: http://tiny.cc/76r5tz

[open swift]

rip

[winter gale]

Dreadfire Vessel best rogue trinket for all 3 specs atm?

[balmy condor]

yes

[winter gale]

Does that goes same for m+?

And is any 226 item lvl trinket from weekly more desirable?

[balmy condor]

phial is really good

but I wouldn't say more

[loud niche]

ugh, wish i could snag a 226phial

stuck at a 223

[tender fjord]

I heard pika played assa on AWC. Would someone mind telling me whether that was tonight or yesterday?

Id like to watch it back

[royal lantern]

assa has decent sustained dmg wich keeps the preassure up

[cyan echo]

it was today

[royal lantern]

and still the normal rogue tools sooooo

[cyan echo]

does anyone know what lego he was using in the tournament or how to check?

[tender fjord]

Thanks NV!

You miss out on on demand cheap shot tho

I think it’s so valuable to be able to stun the whole team when needed in 3s

But I’m really interested how people will make it work

[full tendon]

Be grateful. I can't get a phial above 200 on 5 characters. With 2-3 220-226 vault slots each week. D:

[stoic needle]

Oh how will you cope? Only a 223 instead of a 226? Why even bother living

[stoic needle]

He was using doomblade

I haven't seen a single Phial the entire expansion

[cinder nymph]

any reason why Shiv doesnt show when I look at logs?
Casts -> Timeline

[balmy condor]

blizzard can't make their combatlog work

[cinder nymph]

I see it on the damage done, just not that. weird.

[balmy condor]

yep

it isn't counted as a cast

because blizzard jank

[low girder]

9.1 📈

[fleet whale]

#sinrising

[cyan echo]

ty!

[stoic needle]

to the moon

[open swift]

https://awc.gcd.tv/#

this is how you check for future reference

[cyan echo]

thank you very much boss

[stoic vale]

Good Evening, how important is OH ilvl on dagger?

[balmy condor]

it's about as important as any other piece

mainhand is the big one

[stoic vale]

ok thanks, for outlaw OH ilvl isnt that important , so thats the reason i ask

[balmy condor]

yeah, it's like that for all 3 specs

[fast fog]

Do I put Zoldyack on feet or legs?

[balmy condor]

legs

[fast fog]

Thanks

[strange python]

haste versa ? haste mastery ?

[balmy condor]

haste/anythingexceptmastery

[strange python]

We did it bois

We made it to viability

[azure swallow]

5% assa buff, what do you guys think? Enough? Too much?

[balmy condor]

pins

[azure swallow]

Ah, there ya go. Thanks

[strange python]

Before the original buff I wanted a buff of approximately the 8% and 5%

So it feels right to me

Well I suppose 8% wasn’t the original

But you get me

don't blast assa now, so they buff it again

let it be in the shadows for one more buff

😁

[main forge]

yeah, nobody switch over... stay strong sin union. We shall get it to the top of the DPS meters by not playing it.

but if you do play it... play it just poorly enough to get another buff

[onyx hemlock]

the long con

play bad get buffs

[viral meadow]

anyone got streams or clips of pika on sin in pvp?

[red crag]

i think the entire vod is on youtube

[cinder nymph]

how cani sim oil vs stones vs potion

[viral meadow]

raidbots you can show more options

[sleek otter]

just hit 1700 as sin

[stoic needle]

big grats

i'm about to push to 1600, wish me luck

[strange python]

Who you guys running with?

[kind veldt]

Sin is typically the best progression spec, for execute and most our dmg from dots

so you can pay attention to mechanics

[livid temple]

Woah you guys pay attention to mechanics?

[old snow]

you just gotta keep believing my fellow sin brothers

[balmy condor]

Run this under your import in an advanced sim https://pastebin.com/0CnXcRR1

[strange python]

@old snow can you link me your talent tree and honor talents when playing with paladin

[old snow]

https://www.reddit.com/r/worldofpvp/comments/kz9e54/finally_reached_21k_for_the_first_time_and_i_did/

its all same as here

ill prob update it and make a more thorough guide once/if i get to 2.4k

[shy dust]

Thorough guide for the train x person spec with not much cc options

[raven locust]

Assassination is really annoying against all these holy paladins, I commend you for it

[stoic needle]

my hero

[swift lodge]

So the guides are saying the stat priority is Haste > Crit > Verse > Mastery, but it seems this sub is saying its Haste > Verse> Crit > Mastery?

is there a % crit im aiming for before switchign to versatility?

[balmy condor]

that difference is irrelevant, stat priorities like that are generalized anyways

[swift lodge]

Ah, so basically just go haste, and anything else is great but whatever

[balmy condor]

x>y>z is already a bait way of thinking of stats

[swift lodge]

Interesting, whats the way i should be thinking about it

Ive always thought about it in the x, y, z way

[balmy condor]

pretty much not worth thinking about it at all imo with the strength of main stat, but the strength of stats heavily depends on your current stats

like stacking haste is fine

but if you sim the bis list setup

haste is the worst stat for that gear steup

[oblique kiln]

!bis

[prisma monolith]

Whispyrs Bis list: http://tiny.cc/76r5tz

[swift lodge]

I see what you're saying

[balmy condor]

its all omega ebb and flow

[swift lodge]

So the stat priority that will maximize your dps will change as you start getting certain stats in gear

Basically i would suck if i could hypothetically only have haste, because at some point crit would have been preferred or verse, etc.

[balmy condor]

having stats makes other stats better and worse

[swift lodge]

Got it

Thank you!

[stoic needle]

The only thing I would say is that crit is nice for aoe situations so you might want to put higher priority on that if you do a lot of m+

[balmy condor]

so is haste and vers tho

[torpid spoke]

sin buffs go live next tuesday?

[balmy condor]

yes

[warm parcel]

Imo simplest way of looking at stats would be to ask:
Is 2 x 4 better than 3 x 3?

If youve a limited amount of stats you dont wanna have all in one pile

(unless its somehow really brokenly scaling)

[balmy condor]

yeh

[warm parcel]

Playing diablo 3 with crit dmg and crit chance quickly teaches you this

Getting 100% crit with no crit dmg is worse than getting a mix of both

Its the same with stats in wow in general

[rigid wyvern]

see if you really want to learn stat scaling go play poe for a bit

[brittle pawn]

700 hours in that game and I don't know how to get more dam

[stoic needle]

Well crit directly affects our cp generation from FoK which is why I put higher priority on it for aoe

Not enough to put it over haste, but over vers in my opinion

[native turtle]

is the Subtlety channel in shambles of the assassination buffs?

over*

[balmy condor]

not really

[stoic needle]

i've seen a few blue names in here malding

[native turtle]

Sweet. Cuz the Demo lock channel is uh not pleased

[stoic needle]

didn't they get a buff?

[native turtle]

nope lol desto did

Wait I have a blue name....

Am I a double agent?

[stoic needle]

[signal gulch]

someone in enhance channel was mad they got 3%

[normal spoke]

you touch on a good point... the passive skills of subtlety and outlaw is what makes them so special... it seems that the rest is built around them... a lil bit in every stat doesn't do much for ssin... and they built in diminishing returns too after 25%

[timid cloud]

What's the best leggo slot for Sin raiding right now?

[strange python]

Akkari

[balmy condor]

zoldyck, usually crafted in legs

[balmy condor]

not even sub crafts akaari

low quality bait

smh

[strange python]

#assassination message

[stoic needle]

Yes, those are the pins

[balmy condor]

are you going to actually say something

or just continue posting bait

[timid cloud]

Honk.

[strange python]

I was nice and posted the link to the pin rather than just say “check pins”

[balmy condor]

yes but who are you talking to

[strange python]

I was giving the link to Cydone

[balmy condor]

aight I guess I'm just confused

[manic harness]

@balmy condor do I need to hug you rn?

[strange python]

I’m in a playful mood. Not looking to spar.

[balmy condor]

nah im good

[faint harness]

@balmy condor is wps + sepsis conduit good for burst

[timid cloud]

I meant which slot, I knew which one it was.

[balmy condor]

it's probably better

but I wouldn't say it's "good"

you won't notice a difference

[faint harness]

alright

but shiv dmg increase works on sepsis

?

[balmy condor]

correct

[faint harness]

could be good for pvp then

[balmy condor]

it's possible, yeh

[velvet terrace]

@balmy condor Why does IcyVeins put Haste as absolute last stat prio for M+? Is it just a shit site?

[balmy condor]

in pvp I would think the value comes from septic because LP on wound poison isn't great

[faint harness]

yep

[balmy condor]

not sure what the metric seli used to find that is, but I'm sure he has his source

if you ask me what the stats for m+ should be, I will tell you that it moves slightly more towards crit/vers/mast, and slightly away from haste

[velvet terrace]

"For Mythic+ your secondary stat priority changes quite drastically" is quite the statement

[balmy condor]

but not enough to actually make any difference

[velvet terrace]

👍 thank you

[balmy condor]

might be an artifact of 8.3 gearing with crit build EB

[cedar hare]

Rogue
Assassination
All damage abilities increased by 5%.

so assa will be decent?

or is it not enough

[balmy condor]

pins

[stoic needle]

Wps + septic shock is huge in pvp

15k+ sepsis

[faint harness]

Then you vanish while it ticks for 100% crit

And remain in stealth

[stoic needle]

You can but I think it's better to stay on them for more IP procs

[broken dirge]

!stats

[prisma monolith]

**Shadowlands: ** Haste > Versatility => Critical Strike => Mastery

Assassination Guides:
RH: https://www.ravenholdt.net/guides/assassination-rogue-guide-shadowlands-raid-dps/
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide

[broken dirge]

!guide

[honest lake]

The aura increase include sepsis?

[balmy condor]

yes

[honest lake]

If sepsis had the same base dmg in all spec, that mean tha sin has the strongest sepsis?

[balmy condor]

I mean, yes

but why is that important

[honest lake]

Just curiosity

[balmy condor]

aha

[dense cedar]

Will this buff increase assassination rogue's dps?

[dense hamlet]

i mean yes wdym increase

[dense cedar]

[stoic needle]

Nope

It's actually a dps decrease

[dense cedar]

damn thought so

[dense hamlet]

did they change the way taht dots work like u can dot and press shiv or vendetta and remaining duration of dots hits with the dmg increase yeah? or am i fried

[balmy condor]

what?

if you have a garrote

for 18 seconds

and you vendetta 8 seconds in

the remaining 10 seconds will be buffed by vendetta

the only snapshots that exist are the bonus damage from subt/nightstalker, and the haste snapshot on exsang

everything else is variable

[dense hamlet]

yeah thats what im wondering

like i tryed it on a dummy sepsis does like 35k dmg on dummy

with the proc

if u stay stealth

[balmy condor]

what?

sepsis pulls you out of stealth

[dense hamlet]

yeah

the proc

at the end

but it crits

[balmy condor]

yeah, the bonk

[dense hamlet]

yup

[balmy condor]

....what about it

[dense hamlet]

it crits thats it

and takes u out of stealth

but u get the duration in vanish criting

and it hits around 30k

[balmy condor]

is this another "MA, but we vanish and then sit in stealth"

[dense hamlet]

i mean u cant cuz stepsis pulls u out but till it does it does dmg

[balmy condor]

it's not worth sitting in stealth

[loud niche]

whispyr, you busy?

can you tell me what the issue is with these logs? am i missing something? maybe im the problem? i dont feel like i mess up that much tho

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/HFCQqz6Z1narp8T3

[heavy ocean]

what covenant is best atm

[loud niche]

i give up. 30 wipes tonight on this garbage boss man /tableflip

i prefer fae

and i think it's the bis, but ask whispyr

[balmy condor]

they're wipe logs

and you're like top 5

when you're not dead

[balmy condor]

it is indeed fae

kyrian is very close though

[onyx hazel]

I have a problem understanding garrote damage, while stealth it does more, during the opener you vanish to reapply it during pandemic. After that any reapplies are weaker until you can get a stealth off again correct?

[stoic needle]

yep

[balmy condor]

yes

[onyx hazel]

so there is no snapshotting on the empowered garrote

[north basin]

Fuck iam so eager to play assa, but just upped celerity 235 + finality 235 and did MA, how the fuck iam suppose to do zoldyk..... 4 weeks of waiting....ty

[balmy condor]

the snapshot is the extra damage

[shrewd helm]

so if I already have an outlaw set/leggo should I still craft Zoldyk or DS for ST/cleave

[balmy condor]

if you're going to play sin, you should craft zold

outlaw is probably still better than sin outside of execute damage

[shrewd helm]

I would rather play sin over outlaw for single target. I just dont play outlaw as well.

[balmy condor]

perfectly understandable

zold would the play

[drowsy pond]

what's a good amount of haste for assass

kind of want to play it some when it gets buffed but i'm only 12%

[balmy condor]

more than 0, less than 127

[drowsy pond]

nice

ty

[balmy condor]

np

I guess a less snarky answer it "good amount" in what regard

cause you don't need haste to do decent damage

[drowsy pond]

i guess i just mean like feel wise

obviously with a lot of haste it's gonna feel better

but just didn't know if there was like an average haste number where it starts to feel more playable lol

[balmy condor]

that's completely dependent on person

I think sin with blindside at 0% haste is fine

haste also doesn't increase apm as much as people think it does

[mental laurel]

My guild's struggling on heroic sire. I'm thinking it might be best to go assassination as really the only thing that stops most guilds is P3. Good idea or bad?

[balmy condor]

I mean, it would be the min-max strategy

if the dps check is the problem

I would be willing to wager that the dps check isn't the problem, but the mechanics are

the dps check in heroic isn't that high

[mental laurel]

Could be. It's more a combination of DPS check and mechanics in phase 3. Where we lose people to it so it's valuable to have someone who can pump out more dps

Also, I feel like the soaks and knockbacks make it unfriendly to sub

I get that Shadowstep is helpful

[stoic needle]

in my feelcrafty opinion sin started 'feeling' good around 15%

[mental laurel]

But losing time on dance windows is hard in that phase

[drowsy pond]

@stoic needle ty

[civic trellis]

Did anyone notice the Dungeon slice (beta) changes for outlaw rogues?

In simc

Idk if someone already commented it

[balmy condor]

not sure what change you're talking about, or why assassination is the place for it

[civic trellis]

Sorry wrong channel

[rapid wolf]

Levelling through battlegrounds, is subtlety the only way or is assassination also an option?

From 50 to 60

[novel surge]

At what point does crit outweigh haste?

[balmy condor]

pretty much every point unless you're already hard stacked on haste

[novel surge]

When does diminishing returns start to get nasty?

[balmy condor]

probably 2-3 tiers from now

[novel surge]

So as of now, you can never have too much haste is what I’m hearing

[balmy condor]

no

you definitely can

stats are an ebb and flow

there's a balance to be had

[ornate raptor]

I try to keep a balance on the stats. I feel like above 500 haste your fine well for me it is

[north basin]

So seems like with assa after buff we can achieve better results in dps compared to zoomer outlaw playstyle and precise sub 200iq rotation. Assa so slow paced spec

[balmy condor]

a good sin rogue will not beat a good outlaw rogue

but it's closer

[ornate raptor]

I don’t really care about beating outlaw rogue. I care about being top dps in my raid team so they can qq they lost to me

😂

[hollow escarp]

you can buy some PI

a nf holy pala buff

[ornate raptor]

Priests in my raid gives it to a boomkin 😴

[hollow escarp]

first time I got PI in a key was yesterday

the priest could have PI-ed the gorgoyle in HoA for more value though

wait, can you bolster the gorgoyle and then capture it?

[balmy condor]

it drops stacks I'm pretty sure

[hollow escarp]

probably

others would have done this already if it worked

[lost horizon]

100% it drops stacks

[young hawk]

So sin will beat sub when the 5% buff hits?

[balmy condor]

not in sims, and probably not if its a good sub player

[tired adder]

they will be the same

[reef axle]

like 100 dps difference

or close to

[balmy condor]

not quite

[obsidian willow]

do you guys run PB or CT on sire?

[balmy condor]

pb for sure

[obsidian willow]

ok thanks!

anyone got logs to share on heroic sire as sin rogue?

wanna take a look

[balmy condor]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/rankings/26#boss=2407&difficulty=4&class=Rogue&spec=Assassination

pick one

[obsidian willow]

thank you! much appreciated

[tired adder]

👀

[balmy condor]

idk what you're simmin

?

idk what you're simming

[limber dew]

how will assassination fair after the buff?

[hollow escarp]

not bad

[limber dew]

it looks still bottom of the pile?

[hollow escarp]

for rogue specs?

probably

[limber dew]

for most specs

[hollow escarp]

that depends on how many people will play it 🙂

[balmy condor]

it'll be mid

[hollow escarp]

it's in a good spot

not great, not terrible

[cosmic prism]

surely sin would be better than sub at sludefist now right?

[limber dew]

doubt that

[balmy condor]

probably not

[limber dew]

sub will always hav the highest dps window

[balmy condor]

well I'm not sure about that

sub is a lot less bursty than it used to be

I think it's a little overstated by the community

but it is higher than sin

[cosmic prism]

i mean, sub's 'dps cooldown' is weak at best, it has consistent burst, whereas sin has vendetta, also if the 4th pillar lines up with sub 30% hp it could be competitive

[limber dew]

where would assa sit compared to outlaw now for ST?

[balmy condor]

under it slightly

[limber dew]

i dont get why the best aoe spec has the best ST spec also, really baffles me

in my opinion both sub and assa should be highest ST

[fickle agate]

genius blizz employes

[hollow escarp]

I don't think that's a bad thing

[balmy condor]

sub is higher single target as well

[limber dew]

especially when we have the worst utility in the game as melee ( probably just a bit above warrior)

[fickle agate]

or why a class with multi specs its better than a pure dmg class

[gloomy stone]

Is there a sepsis tracker addon that counts the 10 seconds. Ideally standalone addon

[vestal wren]

its possible that his gear setup is better for sin

[balmy condor]

yeah that's what I'm assuming

[balmy condor]

I'm sure there's weakauras for it

[tawdry pawn]

U mean till IT explodes?

Afrnar WA have sepsis like that on it

Afenar*

[gloomy stone]

Yes. Thanks. Ideally not part of some bloated package

[tawdry pawn]

Yeah u can just pull IT out of group

[balmy condor]

you can just get the pack and then take the sepsis part out

[tawdry pawn]

And delete the rest

[balmy condor]

yeah

[tawdry pawn]

3 cliks literally

[gloomy stone]

Ok will do,thanks

[tawdry pawn]

Yw

[cerulean kernel]

!stats

[prisma monolith]

**Shadowlands: ** Haste > Versatility => Critical Strike => Mastery

[strange python]

so is everyone suddenly super amped to be Sin again now? At least until they realise that rogues still have no raid utility?

[balmy condor]

that's all rogues

we're just happy to be able to play all 3 specs

[stoic vale]

good morning, i try to learn some assa but cant find any good opener sequence ... is it just to apply garrote,rupture and then SnD and after that vendetta into vanish into basic rotation?

[balmy condor]

pretty much

snd before rupture though

you can find opener logic in the guides here

!guide

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
RH: https://www.ravenholdt.net/guides/assassination-rogue-guide-shadowlands-raid-dps/
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide

[stoic vale]

ok, do i use ambush from stealth or just multilate and only ambush with procc?

[balmy condor]

only ambush with blindside proc

[stoic vale]

and i will use shiv AFTER vendetta first time?

[balmy condor]

yeh

doesn't matter that much

[stoic vale]

ok, that helped me a lot. Thank you!!

[errant cloak]

Another 5% buff for Assa incoming maybe, will it be enough to bring back assa? ^^

[balmy condor]

pins

[errant cloak]

sorry, I was too excited ^^

[strange python]

hey look on the upside we can use unceasing chain link now

are all covenents equal for rogues right now?

[balmy condor]

roughly, yeah

for sin they're all within about 3%

[strange python]

cool, I dont have a kyrian alt yet. Looks like sin is kyrian pref

[balmy condor]

night fae slightly

but kyrian is up there

[loud niche]

im fae sin and it feels great. plus shiv and sepsis feels better together

i think he wanted the min/max answer you didn't give, and then looked to see fuu's pin of kyr >fae

[balmy condor]

that's why I added the point that night fae is slightly better :)

[loud niche]

feel like we should just unpin that, since it also says that dashing scoundrel > zold for ST (which is true, but same as finality's not as "good" as akaari's)

[strange python]

I really enjoy assassination right now. I have always been a fan of poison/rot classes

[balmy condor]

well if it's true, why would we unpin it

[loud niche]

because people might only look at pinned and then go for kyrian with dashing instead of fae with zold

i mean, i guess i dont care that much, but if someone doesn't ask then /shrug

[balmy condor]

that's on them

if they want to min-max, that's what they can do

and if they only go off of x>y>z

with no further research

then not much else can be done anyway

[plain jewel]

how bad is venthyr for sin rogue?

[balmy condor]

it's okay

its just the worst option

but all the options are close enough to be playable

[plain jewel]

ah. seems like haste would be really good with flaggelation

[loud niche]

there's a venthyr in the top 5 for mythic xymox iirc

[celest ruin]

This may sound dumb but do aura buffs stay for the next patch?

[loud niche]

unless removed yeah

[balmy condor]

we've been stacking that aura buff forever

this 5% buff brings us up to 51%

which is actually stupid high

[loud niche]

I hate working on weakauras its so tedious

[cerulean kernel]

wouldn't it be kewl if blindside proc extended snd?

[balmy condor]

imo not really

[loud niche]

you mean less pressing snd so i can focus on pressing.... wait

[oblique flare]

so you can press more muts and envenoms

[loud niche]

oh yeah, enven! woo!

[teal vector]

time to craft legs? or boots?

[loud niche]

lol, meh i like it the way it is now at 22% haste, i dont mind the upkeeps. it's what i like most about the spec anyway

anyone else here have NerethisUI weakaura?

[balmy condor]

Legs usually

[teal vector]

zoldyck for multicontent mhhh

dashing scoundrel is op on st and decent for multi, your opinion?

[storm onyx]

Its not op, it is just slight more dps. Which Zol catches up with high haste afaik.

[full tide]

Hey, I'm new to Sin. Could someone explain what people mean by break points on the secondary stats?

I assume you just don't want more than X%

?

[storm onyx]

Dashing loses the moment there are more than 1 target also

[teal vector]

mhhh ok so execute phase for the win

[plain thistle]

no breakpoints, just sim

[full tide]

ty

[storm onyx]

I have 25% haste atm, still sims 2nd highest secondary stat for me for example. You need to sim every time you replace an armor piece to have updated info

[full tide]

So would you say break points more just a theory crafting thing?

[stoic needle]

Except sin can't get max stacks on flag at current gear levels

It doesn't have the CP generation

It's pretty bad

[stoic needle]

They just aren't really a thing at all

[balmy condor]

Like oshosi said, unless there’s a hard reason for them to exist as a part of the spec (like shatter cap for frost mages, or getting another gcd into recklessness on warrior)

Breakpoints arent really a thing

The warrior example is seen more as a micro breakpoint

Since you got a sort of sawtooth thing going on, and not just a hard cap on anything

We’re gcd locked already, and don’t have any mechanic that would suddenly get much worse with a stat

[warm parcel]

100% crit

[balmy condor]

True

[full tide]

Cheers for the replies guys

[balmy condor]

[plain thistle]

yeah, was testing the 20% haste with a warrior budy, the haste values doesnt drop that much after 20% haste, it drops a little but still has value. people think breakpoints is something you NEEED to get and after that avoid that status like the plague, but thats not true in 90% of the cases

[warm parcel]

Yeah the warrior point is absolutely nothing you have to go for, just if you are close to it, it is likely a small gain to swap gems enchants to get the extra gcd

Rogue cannot have this as our gcds will always be 1 regardless of haste level

[loud niche]

This is gonna be a dumb question

Does Crimson Tempest not have pandemic

[warm parcel]

It does

[loud niche]

What's the magic number?

[warm parcel]

30% as with any other pandemic in game

So take your new spell you cast, take 30% of it and theres your answer

[vestal wren]

haste has on classes that have a gcd dependency non linear scaling.
this doesn't mean haste becomes bad after reaching a point where the gain diminishes.

stat caps are a outdated metric and you will often find that putting stats even in the weaker secondaries will be good if you don't have a lot of them given they impact each other

[loud niche]

ever a % of haste at which i can keep 3 ruptures, snd, and crim tempest up?

idk if you can tell that from sims but that's how much haste i want. tired of m+ never having enough energy feels like

[versed thicket]

Can u tell me a name of a high raid dps sin?

!sims

[prisma monolith]

Simulations:
Herodamage: https://www.herodamage.com/rogue/
Bloodmallet: https://bloodmallet.com/index.html

[loud niche]

Peen

he is my superior.... :C

you can look me up, i do ok, peen plays poorly but owns all the top parses

[versed thicket]

I dont find him in armory

Send me urs pls xD

Found. My stats are terrible

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/idNEZS1N7GiopAg3enDscj

[inner granite]

Is sin going to be comparable to outlaw now?

[native turtle]

check le pins

[versed thicket]

Probably little behind in aoe and little forward in st

Versa is shit for sin? Anyone tryed?

[inner granite]

I did check le pins

the information in there covers sin vs sub

not sin vs outlaw

Just curious if there are sin vs law sims floating around

[versed thicket]

There is no comparison between law and sin.. They will be probably near each other

With sin better for st

And arenas

[frozen forge]

another 5% buff wooo

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/c7sRQBquaoutrPvHXrvSu4

such low gear still hahah

[autumn tiger]

!bis

[prisma monolith]

Whispyrs Bis list: http://tiny.cc/76r5tz

[fading wigeon]

Read the pins carefully again

[inner granite]

Read my messages carefully again 😛

[fading wigeon]

Look at what whisper said there dude.

[inner granite]

"Just curious if there are sin vs law sims floating around"

[fading wigeon]

And then go to outlaw channel. Look at their sim for ST. And come back here and look at the assassination sim

[tired falcon]

What execute does sin have? Played a bit of sin in bfa but I was not aware that they had a execute of some sort

[fading wigeon]

The legendary

Zoldyck

[onyx hemlock]

Not an actual execute persay, but zoldyk legendary and blindside talent

[tired falcon]

Oh

[fading wigeon]

Yeah wowhead guide will give you a lot of information on it

[river bloom]

!stats

[prisma monolith]

**Shadowlands: ** Haste > Versatility => Critical Strike => Mastery

[high basin]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/6HgWdve2Y9hyoHDHUwnEBz

Yeah i only sim 400 less than sub now

another 5% buff please

[fading wigeon]

What's your haste at?

[pliant apex]

opps sorry thought its guild chat !

deleted

[strange python]

Yea I’m right around 5,400 due to very low haste

[pliant apex]

its better to eat haste food over agility that guild provides right?

[stoic needle]

No

[pliant apex]

oh, then? feasts better?

[strange python]

It’s pretty easy to sim but I’d default to agility and not worry about it

[full tide]

How does simming account for execute phases like with Blindside and the Legendary?

[stoic needle]

I have simmed it, feasts are better

[gusty mirage]

Primary stat’s just that strong in SL

[pliant apex]

what does that mean

should i eat feast or my food

[stoic needle]

Sims replicate a regular fight with the HP dropping and everything unless you pick target dummy

You should eat the feast

Agi > haste

[gusty mirage]

If a feast is available, always eat the feast

[strange python]

Does the feast give 1:1 agi haste or 1:2?

[stoic needle]

? Feasts give 18 or 20 agi which is always better than 30 haste

[gusty mirage]

Off the top of my head best feast gives 20 agility?

[strange python]

Yea 20:30 agility will be better in every situation except perhaps some very rare ones

And even then it would be close enough that free makes the difference lol

[gusty mirage]

Oh for sure, I wouldn’t go out and farm the mats for a feast or buy feasts unless it’s like raid or something lmao

Feasts are expensive

[prisma monolith]

**Shadowlands: ** Haste > Versatility => Critical Strike => Mastery

[pliant apex]

ty

[spare anvil]

is there another legendary then mark of the master assassin recommended for arena PvP

[stoic needle]

Doomblade

[spare anvil]

thanks

[rocky ruin]

how does sin feels in m+? are we going for aoe or priority dmg?

[spare anvil]

@stoic needle is there a big difference between the two legendarys? i guess with hard slow you can restealth often enough to make the mark work but doomblade is more constant dmg when you just stick to your target?

[stoic needle]

The thing I don't like about MA is that it kinda forces your kill ability into the MA window, and makes it very punishing for you to vanish defensively

With doomblade you can kill all the time regardless of vanish/MA. I've deleted 55k hp flag carrying prot palas once I got their bubbles down with envenom mfd envenom

You get chunky 11k+ envenom crits pretty regularly if you have a decent bit of crit chance and the right CDs up

[spare anvil]

okay, that sounds great

would u link me ur armory?

[stoic needle]

I haven't found a slow to be enough to get a re depending on the target. All of the popular arena classes have a ranged ability they can poke you with to keep you in stealth

[coral imp]

@rocky ruin ive been switching to it in sub and it feels pretty good in aoe

[spare anvil]

yeah that sounds right

[stoic needle]

Lol I was just gonna say I'm kinda new to pvping as sin so take my advice with a grain of salt, there's people who have gotten high cr as sin with MA

[coral imp]

single target im personally falling behind but im using ma

[spare anvil]

okay 😄

[coral imp]

doing 14 -16 keys to test out the class

[spare anvil]

but the points u make are valid i think

[stoic needle]

Its just a different playstyle

I think ma works better for sub personally, they don't have to blow absolutely everything to kill within the MA window but sin kinda does

Doomblade gives you a bit more pressure on your envenoms to force defensives

[spare anvil]

im just missing 25 ashe to build the rank4 one 😄

[stoic needle]

Sin is definitely a cleave/aoe spec in m+. It doesn't really shine until higher keys when your dots get the chance to tick

Boss damage is average I guess, vendetta is a decent CD but it's not sub levels of single target dps

[fallow notch]

I tried it yesterday in a 6 to gear a guildie. It was laughable tbh. Clearly played bad but I legit deal Almost double the dps I did on Outlaw

[lament dove]

I went a m+ with an outlaw recently (similar gear and rio) and what was weird is that on bosses he did a lot more dps, but overall we were the same lol

[stoic needle]

Sin is a resident sleeper. It really pumps if you know what you're doing

[spare anvil]

next week it will be even better

the 5% dmg buff will transfer to pvp aswell or not?

[stoic needle]

Outlaw has better CC and better single target while doing the same aoe so they call sin shit but sin is fine

[rocky ruin]

i was playing all the time Outlul for m+. So im kinda interested what are our priorities atm for sin

[stoic needle]

Yes it will be for pvp too