o.O
#assassination
balmy condor
well......yes
grizzled bough
if sepsis expires it procs it
gray fjord
I do a LOT of Torghast and haven't noticed that, but I also rarely pick that one up. Must be an oversight on their part.
pine grove
Yeah. I've basically never picked up that power to check.
grizzled bough
only noticed in twisting tbh
gray fjord
From when it proc'd vanish as an underlying effect. Hm.
grizzled bough
you usually dont pick that up in a normal run
gray fjord
Yeah I mean I avoid the vanish ones entirely unless I have virtually no choice, and then I just pop vanish on cooldown to get grappling hook off faster and kick/kidney shot etc xD
urban thistle
Yea, I'm doing some missionary work
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/mrjpEg4KLjkaJotdj7ZT4G Missionary work for the church of Shiv
balmy condor
so it's just the shiv line?
urban thistle
also the sepsis condition
urban thistle
actions.cds+="/shiv,if=(cooldown.sepsis.remains>=9|cooldown.sepsis.remains<=1|cooldown.sepsis.up)&buff.slice_and_dice.up&dot.rupture.ticking"
actions.dot="sepsis,if=!cooldown.vendetta.up&cooldown.shiv.remains>=22|fight_remains<=25"
I don't actually think there's any potential to be honest
1 it requires using the sepsis conduit over the instant poison one
balmy condor
yeah
urban thistle
which for Tisu's exact gear setup, the sepsis conduit he had was better than his instant poison one
urban thistle
which is why we started looking into it in the first place
because septic shock simmed 40 dps higher as his 2nd potency
so then I was thinking of ways to play around the fact that sepsis all the sudden has a 23K DPET
if any gain could be made, it'd be in figuring out a way to delay shiv just a bit more, instead of sepsis
because the default APL gets 3.7 sepsis casts, and 12.2 shivs
urban thistle
and the best I could do was 12.2 shivs with 3.5 sepsis
but every sepsis got a shiv in the exact previous GCD
rocky ruin
How much
wise creek
!bis
prisma monolithBOT
Whispyrs Bis list: http://tiny.cc/76r5tz
halcyon fulcrum
Asa spec now is better then sub ?
balmy condor
Asa spec now is better then sub ?
pins
halcyon fulcrum
After this fix ?
grizzled bough
how much aura buff did assa get since launch? 18%?
gray fjord
Correct, to abilities a total of 18%
gray fjord
^
grizzled bough
makes you wonder how Blizz thought launch state was appropriate
balmy condor
if any gain could be made, it'd be in figuring out a way to delay shiv just a bi...
I'm actually not sure it's a gain at all
the shiv condition itself seems to be just worse
gray fjord
Due to auto attacks making up so much damage it's probably (Technically???) like a 15% ish buff overall from launch. I wasn't sure if poisons count as ability damage or not, tbh
balmy condor
and changing the condition on sepsis actually results in a completely neutral change
so Idk if it's actually doing aynthing at all
it might move like 2 gcds around
urban thistle
Yea, that's the whole point
make sure that the first few ticks of sepsis are covered by shiv
urban thistle
I mean, it's worth a few points of dps lol
balmy condor
yeah but that's the thing though
urban thistle
I don't think it's a good addition
balmy condor
I'm not actually sure it is a few points of dps
urban thistle
how could it not be if you run the sims hundreds of times and it's always 5-10 ahead for all fight durations
it's obviously a super slight increase
when you have specifically septic shock
balmy condor
well the shiv condition itself is worse
urban thistle
no shit lmao
balmy condor
the sepsis condition alone, with values ranging from your 22, all the way down to 5
are within 4 dps
and your original combination, is 5
which is actually all within the margin
urban thistle
sure it's within margin, but it also always sims higher
balmy condor
I mean
I guess we're arguing over what constitutes a gain
but it highlights "sidegrades" for a reason
urban thistle
Yea, I mean I'll say it again, I think this condition is stupid
I was just trying to see if there was any possible gain for lining up shiv and sepsis when using shock
and turns out there is an extremely slight one
balmy condor
mhm
urban thistle
to the point of being worthless
urban thistle
what actually kicked off the theorizing, though
I'm pretty sure that septic shock is a gain for me on sludgefist
over sleight of hand
balmy condor
does septic sim that close
sinful island
is it okay to use shiv when you are already at 5combo if you are going to spam envenom after that?
balmy condor
yes
errant delta
so what % crit hate mastery you guys runnin at atm?
sinful island
balmy condor
tidal ivy
Assassination was good for pvp right? Been doing sub, and, besides the fact taht i'M not the best pvpler it hink i did well in the 3 out of 20 matches i won xD
tidal ivy
noted
gray fjord
ornate dawn
So another 5% buff coming huh
urban thistle
actions.cds+=/vendetta,if=!stealthed.rogue&dot.rupture.ticking&!debuff.vendetta.up&variable.vendetta_nightstalker_condition
Can you explain the rupture check in this line, whispyr?
ornate dawn
Well, I guess that buff is still in testing reading the post so be interesting to see the final number
balmy condor
Well, I guess that buff is still in testing reading the post so be interesting t...
it won't change
balmy condor
Can you explain the rupture check in this line, whispyr?
not sure what you mean
balmy condor
to check.... for rupture?
balmy condor
yes
ornate dawn
How do you know it won’t change
balmy condor
How do you know it won’t change
cause they pretty much never do
urban thistle
so it's there specifically to make sure you don't press vendetta until after you've applied rupture?
balmy condor
yes
balmy condor
because not utilizing your cooldowns properly is int
urban thistle
yea ok but why is that not utilizing your CDs properly
balmy condor
because rupture ticking = energy and damage
and vendetta increases damage
so energy and damage * vendetta = better than no energy and damage * vendetta
urban thistle
Are you mad at me?
ornate dawn
Your wasting valuable vendetta time putting a rupture up (if it’s not up) when you could be evenom spamming too I guess , non optimal
urban thistle
These seem like very sarcastic answers
balmy condor
as to where this is going
urban thistle
This
Vs. This
which do you think sims better
this is still with septic shock btw
urban thistle
So would I, but it doesn't
and that's why I'm confused
and the opener is the only thing that's different
between them
balmy condor
well
balmy condor
then I guess bonk > first tick sepsis
urban thistle
Obviously the difference is small
balmy condor
Imma be honest
I don't know septic values off the top of my head
so
bonk being worth more
also makes sense to me
urban thistle
what is bonk?
urban thistle
yea, no, the 1st GCD of sepsis is more damage than the bonk
especially with higher ranks of shock + a character that prioritizes haste
urban thistle
unlike me or tisu's characters
balmy condor
well then idfk man
opener logic hard
brain hurt
sepsis conduit bad
me no like
grizzled bough
and we thought assa is the boomer spec with low apm
you could write a dissertation on opener only
balmy condor
well the dissertation would be: "dunno, it's all within margin"
urban thistle
yea, for sure
I mean, that's actually kinda the reason I'm bringing it up at all
-6 dps for an APL change that should only be affecting the opener
seems like a lot
grizzled bough
disseration reviewer: but why?
balmy condor
no, that seems fairly reasonable
urban thistle
not when the opener that loses seems like it should be the one that wins
balmy condor
the subterfuge/ambush changes were like 14ish
little higher with multiple iterations
with a change that small as well
I don't really trust the sample either
like yes they double mut on both
but that could very easily not be a double mut
urban thistle
True
balmy condor
and then the opener is already different
urban thistle
actions.cds+="/shiv,if=buff.slice_and_dice.up"
actions.dot="sepsis,if=!cooldown.vendetta.up&!cooldown.shiv.up"
These are the only differences between those APLs
balmy condor
yeh
urban thistle
oh wait, one more
actions.cds+="/vendetta,if=!stealthed.rogue&buff.slice_and_dice.up&!cooldown.shiv.up&!debuff.vendetta.up&variable.vendetta_nightstalker_condition"
the slice and dice condition to replace the rupture one
and all 3 of those changes were done because it forces the opener to happen in that exact sequence
apply snd, shiv, vendetta, sepsis, rupture
though I do have an idea, perhaps doing snd, rupture, shiv, vendetta, sepsis
is the best
and I can't think of any reason how those changes would affect anything else anywhere in the rotation that isn't the opener
since you always have snd and always have rupture
balmy condor
okay, but why
urban thistle
idk, it's entertaining
and the only thing I hadn't exhausted
at least that I could think of
to make playing around shiv with shock a gain
Yea, I got it, and it's a gain XD
balmy condor
of how much
low junco
Are buffs out foe rbots
balmy condor
Are buffs out foe rbots
no
low junco
Yikes
urban thistle
it's me being dumb
rustic bear
what do u think about new assassination 5% buff? it would be enough?
shy dust
balmy condor
^
urban thistle
main forge
No... we must hold our ground and must wait til 100% buff to assassination guys.... just like GME stock don't let blizzard win this fight.
main forge
if anything sub should get a buff... but it won't
Rogue might be the one class that you can't/shouldn't bring more than one to a mythic raid. and we aren't even in the top 5 of dps for any bosses iirc
main forge
sounds like you don't have perfect rotation then. there is some RNG in it too
low junco
Anyway this is the assa channel
main forge
Sub should get a buff but even in general we all disagreed where it should go lol
sterile jackal
tbh sin should get a rework on talents. Sub also. Like wtf are those fan of knives/shuriken storm talents. Pure garbage. other calsses have sth meaningful in their last row.
They should add shrouded suffocation as talent somewhere
this would help a lot in m+ scenario
main forge
We did get a rework. they left that one talent in sin as a TBD til right before launch
dim tide
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's:
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
main forge
but I wouldn't be opposed to a redo on a few talents, but unlikely to see that shit go live
sterile jackal
also MA talent
like how lazy that is
talent a legendary with same effect
150% crit?
main forge
would be fine if that did something
like gave 50% more damage or something
but it could be worse.... could be like our anima powers and they just give us some sort of vanish bullshit
sterile jackal
yea, these vanish things are bullshit
i do not like outlaw playstyle since legion, this randomness is not for me. Sub is fun, but it lacks cleave
sad times
main forge
they should put MA and Nightstalker talents together.... put SS and Subterfuge together.... and then make the last one all the vanish anima powers + a 2nd charge to vanish or shadowstep imo
main forge
yeah thats why I say put SS and subterfuge together
make it an overpowered talent called it Shrouded Subterfuge idk
sterile jackal
ah, ok
main forge
see what I mean? MA and Nightstalker are just added together so it would +20 move +50% crit and +50% damage, would be huge burst on one talent... not one talent row
AoE talents need to be together though.
venomrush/alacrity/exsang could use a refresh too
main forge
leeching/cheat death/feint row is fine imo
leeching needs to be more powerful i think but whatever
vigor/deeper strat/MFD isn't a bad row either
internal bleed/ironwire/prey on the weak isn't a bad one
Hidden Blades can go to the trash can though
I personally would like to see a raid/party utility talent
static glacier
it's important to keep in mind that rogue defensives are already very powerful
cosmic prism
pliant apex
Annoying
pliant apex
Dam that’s a lot hmm ty
pliant apex
Oh
balmy condor
it wasn't painfully obvious
obtuse ruin
😂😂
The pins don’t mention anything about assa in m+ post nerfs
Is it comparable to outlaw?
balmy condor
prolly not
like it's closer
but outlaw still wins
I think its more fair to say that sin is around sub level of m+
viral meadow
when do these buffs usually hit raidbots? night after?
or on the nightly the night before
balmy condor
the buff will be live tuesday, so it should be on raidbots by tuesday morning/monday night
obtuse ruin
Hmmm so rogues still not closer to ww tho
balmy condor
unless someone tells seri to rebuild early with the buff enabled
I wouldn't expect anything before sunday morning
steel ridge
!stats
prisma monolithBOT
**Shadowlands: ** Haste > Versatility => Critical Strike => Mastery
misty falcon
!bis
prisma monolithBOT
Whispyrs Bis list: http://tiny.cc/76r5tz
pliant apex
Eh whips why’s audio in your twitch stream cut off , copyrighted something
balmy condor
yes
that's because I can't be fucked to use non-copyrighted music
so it cuts the vods
pliant apex
Yea it’s lame
amber quail
BTW...the total buff is 19,7%...to be precise
pliant apex
How
amber quail
100+5%=105---105+8%=113,4---113,4+5%=119,7
stoic needle
The aura buffs are additive not multiplicative
pliant apex
Jesus that’s too many numbers man
stoic needle
So it's 18%
pliant apex
Yeah oshosi knows
amber quail
them increase first numebr and anytime increase the new number
not only reset and do it by start
stoic needle
No, there is a hidden passive aura that all specs have that the devs use to tune
balmy condor
the 5% is additive to the aura
stoic needle
Every buff to it is additive
balmy condor
yeh
the aura itself is multiplicative
so it is actually 5%
but it's not 5% on top of the 8% on top of the 5%
or else we'd be like 20% higher than normal by now
amber quail
if not and the last 8 become 5 is a nerf
balmy condor
bruh what
amber quail
mind that something is wrong
stoic needle
to the moon
balmy condor
Morning whisp, just saw the news
yeh, been dealing with the pepega since the announcement
median aurora
balmy condor
median aurora
this emote
pliant apex
Oh hahah
balmy condor
basically dumbasses with 0 iq not understanding anything
but thinking they're right through it all
balmy condor
no, it's fine to be excited
amber quail
that is right
balmy condor
it's mostly aimed at the people that are like "hey sin viable? hey sin good?" without reading anything
stray imp
i miss the good old legion days where mastery was bis for assa and everthing melts in your poison bomb^^
stoic needle
stray imp
sad that most people think this way. If its not op or fotm its bad
stoic needle
If it's not outlaw it's trash, obviously
median turret
what would yall say is the dps differnce on ST fights between sin and outlaw
stoic needle
I would say it depends on the player
balmy condor
after buff, it's probably like 3% worse
median turret
ya ok im rerolling ty guys
dire cairn
Disregarding the buffs, how does assa perform in m+ atm?
balmy condor
fine
stoic needle
It's been viable in m+ for a while now
dire cairn
I thought it'd be dead in the water without shrouded suffocation tbh
stoic needle
It's about to get even better with first strike
It's no shrouded suff but it's going to be a very nice boost to our combo point generation in aoe
mental oar
im an outlaw spec anyone have any good rotations or tips for a level 29
balmy condor
that would be the #outlaw channel
but also leveling is pretty disconnected from endgame
so just do whatever
it's fine
mental oar
okay
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's:
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
hollow escarp
okay
in case you are twinking the 29 bracket, I would recommend the XPOFF community for stuff like that
not sure if people discuss twinks here that much
west ice
Where is First Strike conduit i dont see it?
hollow escarp
in 2 weeks
stoic needle
The last row of korayn
hollow escarp
and that
mental oar
well i usually play monk and heard rogue was kinda like it and i also heard outlaw was best for pve
stoic needle
If you're trying to be competitive there's no reason to go from monk to rogue
But if you just want to play a fun class rogue is fun
mental oar
yea but i want to get good at it
stoic needle
I mean rogue is just worse than monk in pretty much every way atm
hollow escarp
hey, we don't die from spiteful 
misty holly
earlier today I did an entire world quest without ever leaving stealth. lets see a monk do that!
mental oar
i saw i rogue putting up 5.6k dps doing better than anyone else in the heroic
hollow escarp
Perdition Hold is another experience on rogue
stoic needle
That's because everyone else in the group was bad or undergeared
stoic needle
Given the same gear and skill level a rogue will never beat a monk
hollow escarp
if you top dps as rogue this patch, your teammates are not doing a good job 
mental oar
they beat sire day it came out
stoic needle
What?
It took over a week for the first guild to beat M sire
Like you can go look at the statistics on warcraftlogs
hollow escarp
think they mean normal or HC
mental oar
they beat it 12- 10- 20
stoic needle
mental oar
no im taking about normal castle nathria
hollow escarp
AOTC in 2021 club 
stoic needle
I wonder if I will actually be able to get a spot in a guild after this buff
I need to get some more good logs
hollow escarp
it's still hard to get a guild as a rogue
elfin forge
How is assassination looking post buff?
stoic needle
Yeah but execute for prog
balmy condor
How is assassination looking post buff?
pins
mental oar
is assassination that good of a spec?
stoic needle
It's alright
worldly bridge
about the post buff state of assa : how big is the cleave gap bewteen assa and outlaw ?
mental oar
switch to outlaw better for pve
balmy condor
not sure yet
hollow escarp
in the last month I applied to a lot of 11/12HC - 2/10 M guilds as rogue and most of them didn't even care to check my logs or give me a chance. And I did that on 3 realms, was so desperate I would have transferred 
@stoic needle
being alliance probably doesn't help either
mental oar
sublety is pure pvp lmao they nerds
balmy condor
hollow escarp
there was a survival hunter officer that rejected me 
balmy condor
sub is better than sin in pve for most things
stoic needle
Oof
I just think it would increase my chances if I had 80% or better on every fight in HC when applying
mental oar
i havent done much research on sub bc its ass
hollow escarp
that's if they care to check your logs
mental oar
thats why i use outlaw
stoic needle
Yeah well all the guilds I've seen on wowprogress say that they consider outstanding players of every class with good logs
So
Better collect those 90s while I still can
hollow escarp
if only they knew
vital crown
so will the 5% buff help much or not really?
hollow escarp
getting good parses does require some skill though
stoic needle
Yeah it's not as easy as it seems
balmy condor
so will the 5% buff help much or not really?
it'll bring us in line with sub pretty much
stoic needle
Especially in a pug
vital crown
it will?
hollow escarp
mental oar
if you go to into an lfr without knowing what to do theres something wrong in your head
hollow escarp
well, you do LFR for transmog, right?
mental oar
yea or just when im bored
hollow escarp
don't forget to log 
quaint sequoia
is kyrian best for both raid and m+?
balmy condor
fae will be better in a week
hollow escarp
I'm glad you're better at the game
royal lantern
becuase...thats...how you climb the ladder?
balmy condor
royal lantern
like, if you wanna go up, you guild jump
hollow escarp
well, it's less likely to get accepted
low junco
Not really
balmy condor
why WOULDNT you apply to a guild higher than yours
frail fossil
you loose nothing trying
royal lantern
or you get into a guild and stay cus you like it(like me atm,who cares that we are rank 600-800 lmao)
hollow escarp
I did try
low junco
I mean
I have top100 exp multi tiers and still stay in a top600 guild cuz i play with homies
hollow escarp
I think you're kinda out of touch 
low junco
But keeping ur standards low cuz u dont have progress is kinda zz, no?
royal lantern
I think you're kinda out of touch <:PEPW:691791304723660841>
why is he lol
i could be WAY higher
hollow escarp
that's what I did in previous tiers
frail fossil
yeah like it's my first tier CE raiding, we're 1000 ish and like i might gonna apply to some higher guild once the tier is over
hollow escarp
and it worked out
wind anchor
Rogue is not really wanted in raid progression, so hard to get in the better guilds even with good logs
royal lantern
and i stay in my guild cus we are friends for such a long time now lol
topaz saffron
My guild has a Play whatever just do mechanics right mentality, so I'll probably stick around
wind anchor
Correct they will ask you to reroll
balmy condor
so then you apply to like a 3/10 M guild, and work your way up
that's how that works
hollow escarp
that's what I did
frail fossil
Correct they will ask you to reroll
plenty of good guild run a rogue
vale marten
man im gonna go bankrupt with these spec balace changes, gonna need 10 legos soon enough
topaz saffron
Can we just have smokebomb back, please 😄
low junco
I mean
balmy condor
man im gonna go bankrupt with these spec balace changes, gonna need 10 legos soo...
is there a need for more than 4?
low junco
I got 3 legendaries and probs gonna make one for assa aswell
royal lantern
i mean
balmy condor
MA, and then finality/celerity/zold
vale marten
well if you play all 3 specs and then pvp
balmy condor
what else are you making
wind anchor
Yeah if you have a good track record you can get in
low junco
And ma if u play pvp
vale marten
ma for assa is bad in pvp
low junco
Wdym
balmy condor
lmao what
vale marten
if assa is good again
low junco
Imagine not playing pvp
wind anchor
But min max progress guilds stacking boomie/mage/uh dk its harder
raven egret
But min max progress guilds stacking boomie/mage/uh dk its harder
if ur that hardcore ur finished with the tier already
frail fossil
yeah lol
low junco
Can apply to a 4/10 one
balmy condor
then...... don't apply to those guilds
frail fossil
world 27 ish ran rogue on denathruys
balmy condor
what
raven egret
like after top 100 or even top 10 literally doesnt matter if you run 3 rogues even
raven egret
ya there u go
low junco
Bro
low junco
I think u should chill
balmy condor
what are you on about
frail fossil
world 8 too
low junco
And try to figure out how the game works
royal lantern
i mean, they sometimes let people play a class/spec cus they are so good with it, the same happend with a ret paladin for method(?) in 1 tier#
but like
frail fossil
FAtsharkyes too
royal lantern
why do you care about top10 lol
low junco
People dont get in people just because they know eachother
frail fossil
But min max progress guilds stacking boomie/mage/uh dk its harder
like even the literal best guild i nthe world run rogues
hollow escarp
ofc he is a good player
hollow escarp
we're probably arguing about 2 different things anyway
low junco
I mean all i can do is cheer u up and let u know that people wont deny u in a higher guild just for ur class
Have u tried to fix some hc logs do some m+ for score
Stuff like that
low junco
Yes
hollow escarp
"no rogues"
like 10 sec into whisper
and I did get in a guild recently
last week exactly
topaz saffron
Why would you want to join guild with that attitude?
hollow escarp
I didn't
but I had longer discussions with officers that said they made their rogues reroll dk
they are still 2/10 M 
low junco
I mean
hollow escarp
gotta start somewhere
low junco
Dks are fun
low junco
Just reroll
topaz saffron
Lmao
shut garnet
drifting cloud
2/10 is pug territory do why youd wanna be there
wind anchor
All the copium here is insane
low junco
@drifting cloud thats what i said
frail fossil
like u can get a all warrior grp and get 2/10 atm
hollow escarp
probably I didn't make my point clear, I know the best way to progress is to apply to guilds slightly better than you, but in my position I wasn't even AOTC and I applied to low end mythic guilds
'
wind anchor
Some random examples of lost rogues in some top tier guilds do not prove it
hollow escarp
and I'm not depressive about it, I understand how the WR game works 😄
drifting cloud
Only difference between aotc and 2m is 20 people difficulty is thr same
wind anchor
Fact is if you are aiming CE and are still having a good chance at it with like 5/10 or 6/10 progress right now, you do not prefer a rogue
hollow escarp
wind anchor
And you will have to do a lot more as a rogue to prove yourself
frail fossil
probably I didn't make my point clear, I know the best way to progress is to app...
man, i started the game in 8.3 mid patch, i played almost only hc, i'm in a 5/10 guild soon to be 6/10 this week
hollow escarp
I know
frail fossil
u prolly have more exp than me
worldly bridge
I'm in a situation where i can buy a new leg and a 220 weap. Should i get a sword for Outlaw (i suck at outlaw) or a dagger (got a 216/213) ?
hollow escarp
u prolly have more exp than me
I raided casually in Nyalotha
frail fossil
yes and
u raided for longer
and u just said u were in ce guild before
which are both thing i didn't have
worldly bridge
Whats best for raid ST / Cleave situations ? i parse at ilvl% around 90 most of the time so im much better sub than Outlaw i dont know what to play now the assa buff messed with my brain lol
hollow escarp
also about rerolling, I think it's better if I get accepted as rogue, people get to know me and my skillset and then get to reroll for some easier prog on bosses
it only makes more sense to me than rerolling now to apply
frail fossil
just say ur willing to play another spec if needed
hollow escarp
not sure if my words make sense 
topaz saffron
Sin4lyfe 👏
toxic tusk
We’re all sinners here.
hollow escarp
in ur apply
already got in a guild now, progging Hungering tomorrow and did my first mythic kill on thursday 
frail fossil
nice
hollow escarp
I wanna aim for CE this tier but we'll see
toxic tusk
I don’t love the idea of a guild wanting you to change what you play. But if the guild’s focus is on X, and you join knowing that, I guess I can’t complain.
royal lantern
already got in a guild now, progging Hungering tomorrow and did my first mythic ...
gz man
royal lantern
like, 1thing you gotta know is @hollow escarp
somewhat ignore some of the higher players here
topaz saffron
I wouldnt mind a new guild
frail fossil
but like idk, this tier i'm gonna see what i do, my guild atm is mostly friends which is very nice, and we're doing pretty good being 5/10 like 2 weeks ish after being created, idk i might look to apply to some higher guilds if my parses allow it
royal lantern
when they say shit like "LOL not at SLG mythic yet" just ignore them, its the same as league players that say they are shit for only beeing diamond 1
hollow escarp
every player has different perspectives
toxic tusk
No one should be shitting on anyone for their progression.
That’s like a telltale sign of low self esteem.
frail fossil
No one should be shitting on anyone for their progression.
yes, except the guild makes some rogue player feel bad for playing rogue when they are 2/10m
those deserve the flame
hollow escarp
I've been in guilds that progressed very slow, but once they killed a boss, it was a one shot afterwards
or close to one shot
toxic tusk
My guild is only on like 4/10 heroic.
raven egret
atleast you're not sitting a rogue because rogue bad
hollow escarp
there are 3 rogues in my current guild
toxic tusk
No, I’m playing a rogue because people think rogue bad.
hollow escarp
I'm a trial and they are main raiders
toxic tusk
Also a survival hunter.
frail fossil
my RL is a demo lock, one was a survival hunt but had to quit the game due to irl issues
hollow escarp
there aren't many catch up mechanics in terms of raid difficulty this tier.
wind anchor
Obviously every class and spec can be good if a good player plays it in a group of average players
frail fossil
no one bitched about them playing shit specs cuz it doesn't matter if they're doing good
hollow escarp
full renown, counduits at 226, what else?
well, I've had issues in the past people making fun of my RL's parses but that guy was carrying hard the raid as a leader
toxic tusk
I still don’t fully understand parses but I’d rather play with friends who aren’t that great than asshats who are.
hollow escarp
I guess it depends on what are the guild's goals
normal spoke
So my prediction still seems to hold... Ssin rogues may just get a permanent vendetta buff in SL first season... 5+8+5 ... 18... 12% to go.
versed mica
raidbots nightly got that sin buff ready doe?
versed mica
no 
hollow zephyr
Another 5% buff
balmy condor
its the weekend
Why doesn’t raidbots update before blizzard announces the buff, that way we can have the sims ready to go for people when it’s announced
low junco
Raidbots ppl just slacking smh
hollow zephyr
@low junco that seems like a lot of math
balmy condor
Raidbots updating is basically just turning it off and on again
The actual update has to come from simc
Which is koji’s wheelhouse
And he’s got a life and shit
hollow zephyr
I feel like they need to sort out the energy problem
royal lantern
what energy problem
hollow escarp
energy problem is not as bad at 215 ilvl as it was at 180
balmy condor
what energy problem
Idk man, coal and oil are pretty bad polluters, I think we should switch to more renewable energy sources
royal lantern
your energy did 100%almost nothing changed bettwen those ilvls
put poison in peoples body
free energy
WAIT
i just understood why they give us corona trought 5g towers now
balmy condor
That’s called coffee
royal lantern
energy problem is not as bad at 215 ilvl as it was at 180
but yeha, mate, your energy gain did not really change bettwen those gear levels, trust me
hollow escarp
it's different than playing outlaw
royal lantern
getting a couple of haste % doesnt suddenly give you 2x more energy too spend, the energy gain from haste is really really small
balmy condor
But it FEEEEEEEEELLLLLLLS better
royal lantern
i still think its weird that people think that haste is the gateway too endless energy for rogue
like, they play it themself, they should notice that it doesnt make a difference lol
royal lantern
i mean, ofc haste does SOMETHING
balmy condor
Ngl, I have no clue how much stat I have
royal lantern
but it doesnt turn sin from 35apm too 50apm lol
balmy condor
I haven’t looked at my stats in like
Months
I logged in to post my stats because someone asked earlier
And I already forgot
royal lantern
when people always talk about stats in spec channels
balmy condor
Those numbers are all so irrelevant
royal lantern
and im there like
balmy condor
It’s actually insane
royal lantern
"huh, i sim higher then most of them and i only have 13%vers, lmao"
secondarys matter less then people think they do
FAR less
like, ilvl beats everything by default except on rings/necks/trinkets
raven egret
its because ppl are stuck in bfa
royal lantern
it was that way in bfa too lol
raven egret
where secondary was everything
balmy condor
That’s just not true
royal lantern
mainstat is the most important stat
balmy condor
Bfa was ilvl > most everything
normal spoke
Remember BfA? Even 50-60% haste didn't feel like you had enough energy regen from haste.
royal lantern
like, people love too forget
raven egret
well yea haste just barely gives you regen
royal lantern
secondarys increase the effectivnes of a SPECIFIC PART of your kit
toxic tusk
There were expansions where I feel like secondary stats did make a difference. Like a big one.
royal lantern
mainstat increases EVERYTHING you do
toxic tusk
Probably why people still chase them.
jaunty arrow
I try assa on dummy with 450 haste feels like i need to push my energi bar with eye focus
versed mica
only time I ever felt a difference was when when I had haste corruptions stacked and had bloodlust on top of that
that and having bleeds on multiple targets of course
normal spoke
But...have you guys noticed the 20k dps on the trash dummies with MA Lego + vanish after dotting everything up and using the aoe finisher talent?
hollow escarp
gmick
balmy condor
The Who what now
normal spoke
We could be 2min rogues :)
normal spoke
Sure sure... but can't be too far off... and I didn't try properly either... think there could be something there... albeit maybe not viable for m+
normal spoke
lol
toxic tusk
Ends? This is only the beginning.
hollow escarp
yeah, it's 1 pm
toxic tusk
It’s 830am here.
balmy condor
There was a guy who was adamant that MA and sitting in stealth
Would not shut up until he had a sim in his hand showing it’s bad
Smh
toxic tusk
What do you mean master assassin and sit in stealth?
normal spoke
Hehehe... but what about that idea with pvp? And exsanguinate on top of that? Anyone test it?
toxic tusk
Well yeah.
normal spoke
Everything... EVERYTHING.. crits
balmy condor
So the idea is you dot everything up, vanish, and then let the crits do work
toxic tusk
Ooooh.
balmy condor
The problem with that
toxic tusk
Doesn’t the crit only matter for applying it?
balmy condor
Is that you’re doing less than half the damage
low junco
Tbh with exsanguinate assa might be better than sub for sludgefist
balmy condor
And then critting
raven egret
exsang is not good
low junco
Depends but idk
balmy condor
doesnt save it
balmy condor
Tbh with exsanguinate assa might be better than sub for sludgefist
I have simmed this as well, and exsang is still shit
low junco
Fug
balmy condor
Nothing can be done to make exsang good
normal spoke
Except 80%+ haste?!
west blaze
Wait, did they change how bleeds/dots crit?
balmy condor
Wait, did they change how bleeds/dots crit?
No
raven egret
Except 80%+ haste?!
we simmed exsang with 126% haste which is hardcap
balmy condor
126% haste from gear btw
low junco
Yeah
balmy condor
That doesn’t include alacrity/bloodlust
low junco
Let me get
balmy condor
So it’s actually like 140%
low junco
126% haste a real quick
west blaze
wasn't it always that if it initially crits, it always crits? Or am I remembering something wrong?
raven egret
yes lol
balmy condor
wasn't it always that if it initially crits, it always crits? Or am I rememberin...
No that’s not how it works
Each tick calculates individuals
normal spoke
Shoot are these Sims ever wrong?
balmy condor
ah wait, dmg boosts work like that
Only some
west blaze
kk
balmy condor
Subterfuge/nightstalker
Being the two
The bonus damage from those is Snapshot onto the dot
Exsang snapshots haste
low junco
Imagine playing subterfuge
raven egret
only outlaw sims are ever wrong
balmy condor
That’s all the snapshots
low junco
Just play ma talent with ma lego
normal spoke
lol
low junco
The more crit the better
balmy condor
only outlaw sims are ever wrong <:kekw:610125925413289985>
Outlaw sims have so many bugs it’s actually unbelievable
raven egret
cant wait to see the resolution to this new stuff yeaa
low junco
Cant really sim a rng spec, no?
balmy condor
Cant really sim a rng spec, no?
????????????????
shadow helm
gonna switch covenants after these
balmy condor
Do you.... not understand how sims work
low junco
balmy condor
Sims run on iterations
balmy condor
If you sim patchwerk 5 min for example
It’ll throw your character at a patchwerk 5 minute fight
As many times as it needs to
To get within 0.05% accuracy
That might take 13000 iterations, or 25000
But it’ll get there
low junco
Ty teacher
balmy condor
Outlaw rng doesn’t really matter outside of the minimum and maximums you see
Cause In those 15k “pulls” it’s doing
There’s a chance it’ll do grand melee 6 times in a row and cry
Or 5 buff like 3 times in 5 minutes
Technically all possible
But you just crank the iterations, and it converges to an average
normal spoke
Like if you throw a coin enough times... it will give you that 50/50 evetually
ocean zodiac
how are outlaw sims bugged?
balmy condor
There’s all sorts of weird shit with outlaw man
ocean zodiac
wdym? I didnt know about that
raven egret
yea theyre all over the place in sim
balmy condor
It’s just weird flurry/poison/etc
Like sometimes it’s a bug in game
Sometimes it’s a bug in sims
Like trinkets werent critting properly in sims
ocean zodiac
does that mean outlaw is in reality better or worse than sims?
balmy condor
It’s pretty much equal
ocean zodiac
also how should you sim your char for this raid tier? is patchwerk 1 boss the only thing you should do or should you do 2/3bosses and hectic add cleave
zenith mesa
Bois how do you keybind Ambush? I have it on my stealthbar on the same spot as Mutilate and I don't want to bind it on another spot. Is it possible to macro Ambush with Mutilate, so if it's available the macro will prefer Ambush?
balmy condor
also how should you sim your char for this raid tier? is patchwerk 1 boss the on...
Patchwerk 1 target 5 min is fine
balmy condor
Bois how do you keybind Ambush? I have it on my stealthbar on the same spot as M...
!bs
prisma monolithBOT
Macroing Ambush to Mutilate only works with the use of a addon.
It comes with the downside that it often requires multiple key presss.
Suggested addon to use(Gnome Sequencer):http://tiny.cc/mxb6tz
Showcase Video: #assassination message
raven egret
yea that whack shit might be the first big change
zenith mesa
oh nice, there is a bot command for it? lol
balmy condor
oh nice, there is a bot command for it? lol
Yeah, you’re not the only one too lazy to use two keybinds xD
ocean zodiac
@balmy condor ty for the info appreciate it ❤️
zenith mesa
ty!!
balmy condor
Okay sleep time bai bai don’t let the channel burn down from the “WAIT SIN BUFFED?” People
dense narwhal
Quick question: As an assassination lover, I always seem to go back to it, but I like to dabble in the other specs too. If you had to pick outlaw or sub as your other spec, which one would you pick (PVE)
balmy condor
Quick question: As an assassination lover, I always seem to go back to it, but I...
Outlaw for sure atm
dense narwhal
Just based on numbers?
balmy condor
It’s a better damage profile, higher numbers, better utility
raven egret
whispyr is an outlaw lover afterall
dense narwhal
I harkon back to ICC when you would go sin for ST and combat for cleave
raven egret
yea outlaw is just best for most fight types right now
balmy condor
Riri getting my blood boiling before bed
zenith mesa
You can go Sub for 2nd specc and use the same weapons, for outlaw you need at least one good sword/mace/axe
balmy condor
raven egret
dense narwhal
I made Voldyck my first legendary, so picking between Celerity or the sub one off of sire lol
maybe just yolo and go Master Assassin
raven egret
choice is up to you but for pure performance outlaw
dense narwhal
out-LAWL
raven egret
out
toxic tusk
They changed that?
raven egret
yea rtb is a cd and uses no combopoints
dense narwhal
It's a 45sec CD, no combo points required
raven egret
way better
dense narwhal
The opening is cool because you can mark for death, roll the bones, slice and dice, all before your ambush
stoic needle
utlaw
I say go MA so that you don't regret crafting celerity like I did later on when sin gets buffed more and is inevitably the best spec
It's also useful in necrotic wake
versed thicket
5% buff on assasination makes him viable?
stoic needle
Pins
real bay
yea boy
stoic needle
sick scarab
ffs decline madness started.. ffs no m+ in 3 days LOL
winter gale
Is NF best for Sin at 31+ renown?
I just switched to NF from Venthyr as I wanted to go for bis one, dont want to switch after 8 days 😂
stoic needle
Yes
pliant apex
I also switched to nf from venth but getting no renown tokens
stoic needle
You have to do the campaign
stoic needle
If you have uncompleted campaign steps you won't get any catch up
pliant apex
Ohhhh
low girder
does that only apply to switching?
pliant apex
iciciciicicic
low girder
'cause that's certainly not how it works on my alt
stoic needle
I think thats for everything
low girder
my alt's been 2/9 campaign for months and is renown 20
stoic needle
How the fuck
last mortar
when i made an alt it maxed renown within 2 weeks and i didnt really play much
low girder
there's a bunch locked behind it still but i don't think the drops are related to campaign progression
low girder
until you've caught up to whatever max is minus the campaign renown you've got left
frail fossil
Never <:peepomad:585733840954458124>
you'll never be 
stoic needle
Ok I guess it's only for switching then
low girder
ye switching i can't comment on 'cause i haven't done it lol
winter gale
One more question
stoic needle
you'll never be <:peen:802602487021436949>
GOOD
frail fossil
PEEN THE GOD
stoic needle
Im gonna be better
stoic needle
I gquit this morning
I'm hitting 1600 this weekend
Gonna get some logs and get into a good guild
Mark my words
stoic needle
Just wait, next tier they're gonna add some stupid borrowed power and rogues will be wanted for progression
Every guild will be foaming at the mouth to get sin rogues
I can just feel it
Back before the first buffs I was like 'there's no way blizzard will leave us like this'. and whispyr said we wouldn't get any buffs till 9.1
low girder
Tomb of Sargeras 2
stoic needle
13% later...
frigid sleet
isnt it 18%
stoic needle
It is but I'm referring to right after the first 5%
low girder
tbf they've never done this before, you can go look at sub in bfa lol
they've always done like 1-2 tuning hotfixes and done, off to make the patch
stoic needle
I do think that if we get any kind of boost with whatever gets added in 9.1 that we will have a niche that convinces people to give us a spot in a raid team
Idk if we will be top tier though
low girder
tbh at most i expect an AMZ nerf to 10%
i don't expect to get anything outside of fight design where maybe cloak will be more useful
stoic needle
That's a non-zero chance we get some raid utility tied to a set bonus
low girder
otoh, every raid tier they seem to make it less and less useful lol
stoic needle
Or that we just get more aura buffs as a class to get damage to compensate for our lack of utility
It really just depends on what design goal they have in mind for rogues
Sure would be nice if they could just communicate that instead of leaving us guessing 
spiral salmon
if you buff 0 by 18% it's still 0 :C
stoic needle
And yet sub is now equal to sin on most fights
How does that make you feel
Are you malding
low girder
i am, i'd like some dust back pls
stoic needle
It's what you get for betraying us
low girder
i'm an equal opportunity spec player
sub got to rot in the sewer for 2 years, figured i'd give it some time in the sun
unfortunately it didn't last long lol
stoic needle
quietly deletes lvl 2 celery
low girder
maybe i'm just a full time outlaw boi now
stoic needle
alpine garden
stoic needle
I'd literally rather reroll
frail fossil
*quietly deletes lvl 2 celery*
stoic needle
Bring back combat
stoic needle
Never
hollow escarp
yaar
hollow escarp
frail fossil
Outlaw haters, i pretend i do not see them