assassination

[balmy condor]

And it’s omega pog

Stats for sin are actually much closer than that

Gone are the days of 1 stat wins

[fleet whale]

A lot of rogues didn’t start playing sin till 8.3

[stoic needle]

We don't have the energy to spare for an ability that costs 40 energy, 2 gcds and gives 0 CP

[fleet whale]

So there perception is a little off

[stoic needle]

What was that ability that rogues used to have that stored up combo points?

Flagellation should've been like that

[fleet whale]

Anticipation

[balmy condor]

Anticipation?

[fleet whale]

Was a talent

It was great in MoP and WoD

Not so great in legion since it competes with DS and vigor

[balmy condor]

Yeah

It was the venom rush of talents tbh

[stoic needle]

Yeah. Flag could store up extra combo points during the 20 seconds and then let you use them for a set time afterwards until you use them all

[balmy condor]

Like it didn’t do anything

[stoic needle]

Or something

[balmy condor]

But it was still just decent

[fleet whale]

But admittedly it was a very nice talent for qol sin

For ST, anticipation was better than MFD when the two talents were on the same row

[balmy condor]

Yeh

That was also before 30sec mfd tho

[fleet whale]

It was also amazing with HFC set bonus

Since you got so many cps to store

i'm going to be honest, the only covenant ability that feels worse to press than flag

is Fodder to the Flames, the DH ability

[oblique flare]

so uh, I haven't used WAs before, and tried to set up some of my own abilities up, but gave up and imported full rogue WAs to just "steal" abilities from them, just after importing the WA it's causing my game/ display driver to crash

it's the lastest WA version from curseforge, no clue wtf is going on, after removing it and deleting all its files, the game works fine again

[stoic needle]

Did you try using the WA templates?

Those are usually more than enough for simple ability tracking

And they're the most beginner friendly way to go about making them

[oblique flare]

i tried the full rogue WAs from wagio and the ones that are linked in this discord

[stoic needle]

Yeah ,forget those

When you go to make a new weakaura in-game, follow the instructions there

[oblique flare]

but yeah, i mainly just want an ability to show me the ability + cd and one that shows me a proc like sepsis and blindside for example

[stoic needle]

The built in examples should be able to cover that

[oblique flare]

I tried to get it to work, but only the proc pop up actually works, the ability + cd simply shows me an icon with nothing else, guess I'll look some stuff up

also, I just enter the name, am i supposed to go for the ID only?

[stoic needle]

The ID is more precise but the name should work usually

[oblique flare]

since the name usually includes multiple IDs

[stoic needle]

You can go on wowhead to find the ID for the specific one you want

It's in the URL for the page of the ability

For your ability+cd, in the display section there should be a check box near the top for 'show cooldown'

See if that's checked

[oblique flare]

i did check that, it either only shows up when used or just shows the ability icon

[stoic needle]

Which ability are you trying to do

[oblique flare]

currently Vendetta and Shadowblades, CD tracking, graying out when used, and when it's up glowing effect around it

[stoic needle]

Ah I see that's a bit more complex

[oblique flare]

I get the glowing effect as well as the ability to just show up, but no cooldown, nor gray icon

[stoic needle]

So what you want to do is to go into the triggers section, and for the part where you're tracking the cooldown of the ability, there should be drop-down box that says 'show on cooldown'

[oblique flare]

so i assume i gotta add more triggers or smth

[stoic needle]

You want it to be 'show always'

And then you'll need two conditions, one to grey it out when it's on cooldown and another to make it glow when it's off cooldown

The trigger is the part that will track the Cd and make the icon show, and the conditions will do the animation and greying

[oblique flare]

ah, i see, cheers :D

so, do i leave the Display settings on default? as that was where i set the cooldown and glowing

[stoic needle]

Leave the cooldown setting alone, but next to the glow you want to uncheck the box that says 'show glow' otherwise it'll always glow

You want the condition to control the visibility of the glow

[oblique flare]

okay, i selected the icon template, but under triggers, the only "show on" options are: always, aura found/ missing and match count

nvm, always works now xd

[stoic needle]

That's for a buff

You want to change the thing being tracked to the cooldown progress of the spell

That should be an option

[oblique flare]

reread what you wrote and looked around, it either always shows the icon or nothing

not even sure what to select here, seems super scuffed

[stoic needle]

@oblique flare

that's for trigger 1

that's what you'd select for the triggers, one for when it's true(greyed out) and one for when it's false(glowing)

[oblique flare]

oh lmao, i just realized that "From Template" offers basically that what i want need and what you show

I was trying to create it with the Icon

[stoic needle]

Told you

[oblique flare]

and was wondering where tf the "on cooldown" was

well yeah, i didn't click on from template, thought you meant by template the icon one

focking hell

cheers

[stoic needle]

No prob man

Weakauras are confusing as hell at first

But once you get the hang of it they're pretty dope

[oblique flare]

yeah, especially when it's regard major cooldowns or procs that allow you a free cast, never went into WAs because they looked complicated and the full spec kits seemed imo too bloated for me and i just wanted something simple x)

at some point i might as well get this addon that keybinds the macros directly so i can have only important abilities on my actionbar showing for a much cleaner look

[stoic needle]

If you have elvui you can set certain action bars to hide until they're moused over

[jolly quiver]

!bis

[prisma monolith]

Whispyrs Bis list: http://tiny.cc/76r5tz

[jolly quiver]

!stats

[prisma monolith]

**Shadowlands: ** Haste > Versatility => Critical Strike => Mastery

[spice spire]

The box doesn’t fail got a 216 chest piece

[stoic needle]

[mossy sable]

Aight so Nadija is my main for outlaw, between Draven and Theotar

Which is "Better" for Sin

Obviously nadija is best

[balmy condor]

have you tried simming it

[mossy sable]

ffs I forgot you can sim soulbinds

[balmy condor]

unlucky

[mossy sable]

2 IQ right here

lol

theo it is

!guides

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
RH: https://www.ravenholdt.net/guides/assassination-rogue-guide-shadowlands-raid-dps/
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide

[mossy sable]

Anyone got any good PvE Guide videos they know about?

[balmy condor]

I personally try and stay away from video guides

the youtube/twitch community in wow has a lot of people saying things that are just really wrong or misleading

[mossy sable]

I mainly use them because I am much better at visual learning

The text based style of most guides makes it hard for me to understand

Your point makes sense though

[balmy condor]

I can say that @gray fjord and @halcyon roost both try their best to stay up to date and accurate. I've heard good things about palumor

but just by nature of making videos, you're already behind updates to stuff

[mossy sable]

Right I guess, I am just trying to understand the basic kinda rotation

[balmy condor]

like a sin guide video that got released mythic week would already have problems with openers

[mossy sable]

I played rogue a bit in bfa but never really understood it

[balmy condor]

since the ambush/mutilate stuff has all been within the last 2-3 weeks

well

most of it

[mossy sable]

Right

[balmy condor]

I think its fine to learn basics from youtube videos

but you gotta be really careful about the random stuff that gets tossed in

so if anything, I would recommend watching a couple different guide videos

and then reinforcing the ideas from the written guides, which are made by this community and are accurate to current theorycrafting

[mossy sable]

Ok, sounds good

I'll try that

[rigid wyvern]

!bis

[prisma monolith]

Whispyrs Bis list: http://tiny.cc/76r5tz

[arctic brook]

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Fuus Shadowlands evaluation Spreadsheet: http://tiny.cc/uxr1tz

[stoic needle]

None of our talents or abilities affect trinkets

[balmy condor]

master assassin the talent and master assassin the legendary are kinda weird

yeah

the talent only affects rogue specific effects

wdym

its the best talent in that row for single target

just because it doesn't affect trinkets doesn't make it bad

trinket damage is whatever in that comparison

so is the question MA the legendary vs zoldyck?

cause zoldyck will give more than that

[raven egret]

hit boss damage

is kil

[balmy condor]

it's been fine as it is mostly

little bit confusing with MA and other MA

but I think it's okay

[raven egret]

ambush bad

i think muti snd muti garrote rupture

is the way

[balmy condor]

with MA you go mut snd mut

[raven egret]

muti is super good with crit

better than ambush pure dmg

[balmy condor]

nice filter

[raven egret]

[balmy condor]

why

[raven egret]

[balmy condor]

would you try it again

....

[raven egret]

[balmy condor]

if you want a mute you can ask for it

ya know

because it's an offensive term?

wait that one should be filtered

wtf

[raven egret]

yes

manual mute

[balmy condor]

^

also to be fair, not all offensive terms are equal

just by nature of the history and the group they demonize

but that's not really a topic I want to get into

am I?

this isn't a conversation for this discord

there are very clearly words that are offensive, and if you don't like the rules, that's fine, you can disagree, as is your right

as long as you follow them, we won't have any problems

[odd meteor]

During vendetta should I just focus on getting as many envenoms off as possible or do I need to maintain my bleeds and snd also.

[gray fjord]

Absolutely agreed on that front (videos being being behind from updates and such), it's why I try to also keep up with other forms of content that don't change often or are just 'news'/opinions.

Video is definitely not the ideal medium for guide information, primarily due to the fact that youtube/video platforms recommend things well past their expiration date. I do my best to advise folks to sim/test their own loadouts, as well as stating that information can be pretty volatile, as one balance pass can change the end result in some case. ^^; Unfortunately I don't really have a blog or anything to keep up to date, and at that point it also becomes iv vs wh vs me vs whoever, so the written documentation can be skewed very easily without consistent upkeep.

And hi, sorry I just saw your mention while I was recording stuff. xD

[robust wedge]

hey guys icy says u want to go 2x lightless force for m+ - (thats just what i run ) but somebody in my group said its really bad

what are u guys running?

[stoic needle]

sinful/celestial

[low girder]

you don't want to double up on any enchant in particular unless you're trying to save money and go double celestial

[robust wedge]

but why does icy say for m+ u want to go 2x lightless 😮

anbd thanks for your answers !

[low girder]

unless lightless is one of the ones that doesn't work like that

[quick path]

So getting back into rogue after grindin* Pally & Hunter to 60.... miss stealth lol For leveling is there a preferred spec right now or all 3 about same ? I’ll be solo for the journey and @60 would like to solo torghast if possible - heard it can be problematic for rogues but that may be old info.

[low girder]

@balmy condor does lightless not work like the other two since it's a dmg proc, so 2x is good

[balmy condor]

Yes

[low girder]

'cause the other two just refresh duration

ah

aight then those people are wrong, as am i!

[balmy condor]

Lightless proc rate is dependent per hand afaik

So 2x is actually 2x

The reason it’s recommended by people is cause it sims higher in aoe

Most likely

[balmy condor]

Usually people level as sub/outlaw. Sin is a dot spec and has some ramp. It’s doable, just not optimal

[stoic needle]

@balmy condor there's a divide by zero error on the DS bis list for the DPS of the covenants and their relative differences

[balmy condor]

Yeah

That’s cause I haven’t done those sims

So it’s empty

[robust wedge]

ah okay so i can keep running 2x lightless ?

[balmy condor]

Yeah

2x lightless is fine

You’ll lose single target

But aside from that

Go for it

[robust wedge]

i like the aoe aspect 🙂

but wasnt sure if it stacks

[stoic needle]

oh i see

[robust wedge]

really appreciate your all opinions

really kind

thank you ! 🙂

[balmy condor]

hey guys first time rogue here. so finality: rupture works on assassination and I was just wondering if that makes exsang viable? ty

[fallow otter]

Whats an exsang

[native turtle]

Also a first time rogue here. When i put up my bleeds during the Master Assassin legendary window, they get 100% crit for the full duration right?

OP leggo

[balmy condor]

op op

also works with shadow dance

trust

[native turtle]

ooooh thats a good one

[gray fjord]

Pretty sure the duration is extended by subterfuge, too.

[balmy condor]

yo didn't even think of that

you so smart

[gray fjord]

le big brain

[fleet whale]

I made a forum post on my suggestion to replace flag:

https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/flagellation-replacement-suggestion/847234

[topaz axle]

+1

I do miss kingsbane

[balmy condor]

fucking varo and his kingsbane boner

[fleet whale]

i mean it's more interesting than the likes of sepsis or Flag

and at the very least, more impactful

[balmy condor]

impact is a numbers game

if kingsbane on venthyr did as much damage as flag, people still wouldn't play venthyr

[fleet whale]

it would be a feel good button to press though. Like Convoke for example is cool to press

even if it really doesn't do that much for gameplay

flag could do 1000% more damage, and it would still feel shit to press for me

[balmy condor]

I remain firm in my position that kingsbane and toxic blade and shiv and sepsis all feel the same to press

[fleet whale]

sepsis cd is too long

for it to feel like KB

[balmy condor]

wasn't KB 1:30 with reduction from poison application

[fleet whale]

nah it was 45

[low girder]

nah more like 45

[fleet whale]

with the cd reduction

so like 30-35 seconds

[echo cargo]

@balmy condor Do you have the pastebin which simmed all the consumables and shit?

I've seen you post it a few times 👀

[balmy condor]

well

then you should be able to search for it right :P

[echo cargo]

I have a small brain. Searched for it and went back 5 pages and couldn't find it.

[balmy condor]

Run this under your import in an advanced sim https://pastebin.com/0CnXcRR1

[echo cargo]

You're my hero- and also I had no idea you could search by specific person

so TIL

[balmy condor]

oh yeah it's great

you can even do has:link or has:image or has:video

and in:assassination

and if I tag you like this @echo cargo

you can even search by mentions:gucciunicorns

[echo cargo]

Huh, that's actually super useful for going back into ochat shit in my guild discord

Someone promote this man

[full tendon]

So how's assassination doing now?

Because I think I just suck at outlaw

And don't like sub

[balmy condor]

its okay

[buoyant mauve]

despite being 93% parse on artificer, an outlaw at 52% parse still did 500 dps more than I did. though tbf, he is 11 ilvl's higher than me

[full tendon]

Ugh

I was really hoping the buff would at least make it competitive

Feel like my prayers to RNGesus do not reach highest heights with rolls

[balmy condor]

why do you just choose to willingly lie

[buoyant mauve]

I'd say it's still viable

[balmy condor]

[buoyant mauve]

who's that for, Whispyr?

[balmy condor]

for you

obviously

[buoyant mauve]

hah?

[balmy condor]

a 50 parse on outlaw is 300 dps under a 90 parse for sin

you're literally 800 dps off

[buoyant mauve]

oh I go by ilvl parse since I'm only 204 and it's the only real way I have to measure myself

[balmy condor]

aight well if we use the nonsense numbers then whatever

sure

[buoyant mauve]

that matter to me

they*

[full tendon]

Is it much the same rotation as previous?

[balmy condor]

they probably shouldn't, but ey, you do you boo

[balmy condor]

pretty much the same as poison crit build 8.3

or any of bfa before that

[full tendon]

Is Crimson Tempest in play for M+?

[balmy condor]

yes

[buoyant mauve]

it's about the only way I know how to measure myself against fellow mut rogues, otherwise it just comes down to ilvl

[full tendon]

Is shiv part of the rotation?

I got Hekili to help me understand why I was sucking at outlaw. ANd it's still on as I'm dicking around on a training dummy, and it's suggesting it as a button to press

[balmy condor]

shiv is toxic blade

[full tendon]

OHHHH

Assassination only?

[balmy condor]

yes

[full tendon]

Thanks

[buoyant mauve]

is it at all worth looking at top 10 parses for a fight to figure out which leggo is best for it or should I just stay zoldyck all the way. An example being 6 out of top 10 on sludge hc using MA instead of zol and even the #1 using MA despite being 4 ilvl's lower than #2 with zol

[full tendon]

Why is MA so good for sin? 4 sec of crit really worth a 2 min CD?

[balmy condor]

sludge pillar dam

huge

zoldyck is the dream tho

forever

[buoyant mauve]

even on sludge?

[balmy condor]

yeh

MA is good

but it's not like

oh my god need MA

[full tendon]

Doomblade's no good?

I have MA, was the first one I made

Have celerity and finality

But no sin specific one

[buoyant mauve]

!bis

[prisma monolith]

Whispyrs Bis list: http://tiny.cc/76r5tz

[balmy condor]

its okay, but it's just like, why would you

[pulsar sluice]

cuz pvp

doomblade might make exsang viable in pvp

im getting closer to the hastr sweetspot

20%

[faint harness]

Exsang pvp?

Weirdchamp

[full tendon]

Oh, forgot about Dashing Scoundrel

[faint harness]

Wouldnt big envenoms be better in every single way

[full tendon]

(Since I haven't bothered with Council on rogue yet)

[pulsar sluice]

envenom gets buffed for every bleed

so thats 20% buff to envenom

[faint harness]

Exsang isnt another bleed tho is it

[full tendon]

Is Scoundrel good for AOE at all?

[faint harness]

Speeds up current bleeds

[pulsar sluice]

no but the idea is to bleed em out faster

[faint harness]

Ok

[pulsar sluice]

cuz meta

[balmy condor]

no it's actually quite bad

[full tendon]

That sucks 😦

Guess it's Zol-the-way

Boots, yeah?

[balmy condor]

legs

[faint harness]

Zoldyck actually gives your guild a reason to pick you for prog

[full tendon]

You've sold me

[pulsar sluice]

or just play outlaw

[full tendon]

I have been, I'm not getting a weapon, and either I'm somehow stupid af and just bad, or RNG hates me, or both.

Haste/vers?

[balmy condor]

yeah

[full tendon]

Thanks

Elaborate Planning vs. Master Poisoner?

[balmy condor]

poisoner in pvp

planning in cleave/aoe

blindside in single target

[full tendon]

Ugh, gotta find a spot for ambush on my bar now

Lol

[balmy condor]

put it on your exsang button

and then remove exsang from existence

[full tendon]

I haven't had exsang since like Legion

[balmy condor]

[buoyant mauve]

I've got ambush in the same spot my gouge or shadowy duel would be

[rancid blaze]

does the blindside proc not auto put ambush in place of mutilate or do i have to have another key?

[balmy condor]

you need another key

!bs

[prisma monolith]

Macroing Ambush to Mutilate only works with the use of a addon.
It comes with the downside that it often requires multiple key presss.
Suggested addon to use(Gnome Sequencer):http://tiny.cc/mxb6tz
Showcase Video: #assassination message

[shadow helm]

should i stay necro for assass or make the switch to NF

[balmy condor]

depends how much you care about like 2% dps

[shadow helm]

shiv buffs sepsis right

[ember rover]

In a few weeks, it's gonna be more than just 2%, I believe

Nyia's burrs is slightly overtuned

[balmy condor]

yes shiv buffs sepsis

[balmy condor]

fine, 2.55%

[shadow helm]

eh ill stay then

not worth the hassle of getting renown and getting fuckton of anima

[buoyant mauve]

as someone who started ven, then kyrian around 19, and now fae, it's actually pretty simple to get caught up

I pretty much only raid log and do emissaries and it only took me 2 weeks to catch up

[ornate raptor]

Catch up is quiet easy and fast. Its just the anima you loose and have to grind again i guess. But i honestly didn’t bother grinding anima after i switched

[shadow helm]

ill stay with the op necro command table

big stonks

[stoic needle]

How do we get the most value from first strike as sin in keys? Is it worth it to forego the usual 3x subterfuge garotte opener for more +25% crit FoKS to get Ruptures up, or do we just play as normal and only get one crit FoK within the first strike window? Orrr does the buff keep refreshing with each garotte (since we're damaging a new target each time) and so you still get a full 5 second of the buff after the 3rd or 4th garotte?

[balmy condor]

play normally

[stoic needle]

Ok. So does FS refresh or no?

[iron orchid]

It should actually refresh

[stoic needle]

That's sick

[iron orchid]

well that's just a guess, I didn't get beta access or anything so couldn't test it out

just the tooltip makes me say it should refresh

[stoic needle]

does that mean we get a tiny bit more from it then the other rogue specs because we don't ooga booga shuriken storm/blade flurry immediately every pack? Lmao

The tooltip makes it seem like it should refresh to me too but I wouldn't put it past blizzard to nerf it

That's kinda stonks. Maybe youd wanna get the 5th cp after garottes with shiv or something instead of FoK so you can have another second or two of the buff

[oblique flare]

!bis

[prisma monolith]

Whispyrs Bis list: http://tiny.cc/76r5tz

[oblique flare]

k, for the first time my vault actually gives me a hard time choosing, because all choices are either bad or sidegrades

220 pvp neck with haste/ vers (i have pvp vers/ mastery)
220 pvp chest with crit/ vers (hungering chest 213ilvl)
220 Stitchflesh with haste/ vers (i have two high vers, low mastery rings)

One one hand, i want to get assa playable, on the other I do pvp so sub gotta stay viable, so i think chest makes the most sense due to crit being good for assa as well?

hm, yeh, fk it, chest it is, worst case I'll buy haste vers, crit vers ring with conquest

[slim cipher]

Is sin good for thorgast?

[plain thistle]

yes, probably the best spec for it

but I just do as outlaw, because my gear is better there

but you shouldn't have a problem doing thorgast with any rogue spec tbh

[earnest heart]

If you have problems with a spec in torghast, the problem is not your spec i think

[red crag]

Do you guys open with sepsis on ST first global or is my sim drunk?

[dusky umbra]

question, when sim with raidbot (ex: Add Cleave 10min) does it include the execute dmg of the legendary?

[plain thistle]

yes ofc

[dusky umbra]

damn so with my gear in add cleave sin still does worse than sub

😦

[quick egret]

Do we craft Zoldyck on legs?

[spice spire]

Yes

[unique plume]

What's the diff between crafting zold on legs Vs feet ? Is it literally just Agi difference? I wanna have the ability to change the same slot between dashing & zoldyck so feet slot for lege works for me

[fading wigeon]

That's fine

The difference is so small it doesn't matter. If you are playing sin you aren't really min maxing dps anyways

[wary orbit]

does sin rogue function at all in m+ or is it something i shouldn't bother trying? i enjoy the playstyle but if my damage is going to be incredibly low i don't want to waste time gearing it

[obtuse ruin]

as opposed to other classes or other specs?

well its still lower than all of them...

[tacit night]

hardest part is getting into a decent pug as a rogue

[wary orbit]

i just want to know if it's even playable at all

[iron orchid]

You can do some good keys as sin

[lament dove]

I would say it works fine
I don't do pvp or raids so I'm only in 12s atm because I don't have good gear, but I'm holding my own

[iron orchid]

but you would have to play perfectly and know every key even for average level keys

[lament dove]

ofc boomkins and MMs will do more dmg, but compared to similar geared people it's not bad at all

[iron orchid]

I almost timed every 15 playing only sin since the beginning of SL, if you play good, you can have fun

[wary orbit]

thank you

[stoic needle]

I also have little trouble keeping up with people similar gear levels to me

[full latch]

@wary orbitdat a op_na_ura pp?

[tawdry pulsar]

My first legendary

https://i.imgur.com/HoFvBfS.png

[wary orbit]

yeah

[tacit night]

what ilvl are you running in 15s?

[red crag]

!opener

[quick egret]

What is the sin single target opener? read 2 guides and they both said different things, I'm running Blindside and MA

[spice spire]

Mutilate, SnD, mutilate, rupture isn’t it?

[quick egret]

I open in stealth with mutilate?

Not garrote or ambush?

[wet rock]

Garrote and ambush would just limit the number of cps you get right?

[spice spire]

Yes

[wet rock]

You can just cast garrote after the opener

[spice spire]

And I just looked at a log.
Prepot > Mutilate > SnD > mutilate > garrote > rupture

So garroteing before rupture isn’t a bad one either

[quick egret]

oh, I thought it would be garrote or ambush in stealth

[wet rock]

Is that with MA rather than subterfuge?

[spice spire]

Yes, master assassin

Otherwise it’s garrote > mutilate > snd

[wet rock]

Makes sense

Fair enough lol

[spice spire]

Mutilate provides the extra combo point potential on crit

[wet rock]

I guess im thinking too much about casting garrote from stealth

[quick egret]

when do i vendetta in the opener? wit hMA

[spice spire]

Not necessarily. But it’s only a must cast on subterfuge

MA still newish to me. But I’d assume after opener, mut, Mut, shiv, vendetta, envenom

And then go on, king

[quick egret]

sweet thanks, sepsis after shiv right?

[spice spire]

That’s max-minning, but yeah

[balmy condor]

Wait

Shiv after sepsis

What

You want to sepsis first to get the full benefit from shiv onto the sepsis

[stoic needle]

Sepsis hits like a truck it's kinda crazy

[spice spire]

Oh yeah. Dog I’m at work, forgive me for my sins papa whispyr 😔

[balmy condor]

Lmao

[stoic needle]

To the gulag with you

The gulag is where you're forced to pug prenerf tyrranical bolstering necrotic plaguefall for eternity

[spice spire]

[stoic needle]

nd they're all +9s so no prideful

[iron orchid]

Around 217 atm

[dawn plume]

I'm about to craft my first legendary, have zoldycks, master assassin, and celerity available. Is it actually worth committing to assassination right now?

[wary ice]

If you like assa more than the other two yeah

Its still pretty decidedly the worst of the 3

[native turtle]

"worth" is a strong word. Unless you are doing +15s or mythic raids assassination will be fine

[dawn plume]

i played zoldycks in legion and liked it a lot

[wary ice]

But its playable for sure

[shy dust]

Yes but still the worst option

[native turtle]

Yeah that depends on his definition of worth

I'll play my favorite spec in the game if its 10% worse than alternatives

maybe he won't

[dawn plume]

I may end up doing 15s

[native turtle]

If you plan on Pugging 15+ dungeons, you are gonna have a tough time as non-outlaw

[dawn plume]

I have a set group

so that helps a little

[native turtle]

If your set group doesn't care that you aren't playing the optimal spec, than do whichever spec you enjoy

If you as a player care about performing well in dungeons, play outlaw

[quick egret]

An idea when I pop vendetta on Sludgefist?

[warm portal]

anyone rocking Venthyr/Necro 🙂 ?

[loud niche]

hey, did someone say "unless you're doing mythic raid" when saying sin is fine? im out here

and so are a couple others

[balmy condor]

4 pillar you pull/2/4 lust on 4

3 pillar you pillar 1/3 and lust on 3

[quick egret]

sweet thanks

[open swift]

does zoldyck affect Sepsis ?

[stoic needle]

it does not, sepsis is not a poison

[open swift]

😢

it should be

[hollow escarp]

just noticed that both fights had the same duration

[strange python]

I'm playing venthyr. It looks cool but the abilities are trashy at best. But atleast im not a paladin or druid lookalike 😄

[stoic needle]

Necro isn't bad. I wouldn't recommend venthyr personally as a former venthyr player

Just search venthyr in this channel and you'll see me talking in depth about why

[native turtle]

Yeah but your cov transmog makes you look like Zed

so thats cool

[hollow escarp]

wearing covenant transmog

[stoic needle]

I miss the venthyr mog so much

[hollow escarp]

next week we get last row of Niya's soulbind tree

[stoic needle]

burrs go brr

[fleet whale]

i wish we could still keep two potency conduits though...

in a future patch, blizz should be able to let us swap around the potency slots

[stoic needle]

Yeah, I really like having well placed steel

I think dreamweaver is going to be good once we get the field of blossoms

Double potency + flag haste buff basically

[fleet whale]

yeah but field is like galecaller's in bfa...

i'm not a fan of effects that make you stand still essentially

[hollow escarp]

you can snapshot it though

wasn't that the reason of gallecaller's?

damn, I miss shrouded suffocation

[fleet whale]

well, expedient was also a big part of galecaller's if you used that trinket

which we don't have

[hollow escarp]

[fleet whale]

field won't bring exsang back though

it will still be bad

[iron orchid]

the time of the 226 skulker has come

rip heroic memories of past sins

[fleet whale]

i think you really mean the time for 35 anima has come

unless if you just got the 226 skulker

[iron orchid]

WELL

HUH

[native turtle]

@balmy condor is a large fan of Exsanguine. Ask him if it's a good talent or not

[stoic needle]

I'm not a huge fan of stand in the ground effects either but might be worth it to run double potency

[fleet whale]

will prolly have to wait until our potencies get to higher ilvl ranks

since they scale (gasp!) better than things like burs etc

[low girder]

burrs scales with ilvl

so idk if that'll happen

or well main stat probably, but same thing

[iron orchid]

I'd guess Attack power, main stat and vers probably

But yeah

[low girder]

yeah AP and vers

is what wowhead tooltip says

[fleet whale]

i mean depending how long the expansion goes, WPS could give us like a 45% bonus to the nature damage from shiv

initial 20 plus 25% from the trait

that would be kind of nasty

[stoic needle]

it seems kinda weird to me that the poison interrupt conduit does less damage than burrs

considering the setup required to get it to proc

[low girder]

i'd ask whispyr to try it out but i asked him for enough dumb shit with exsang yesterday

[stoic needle]

you'd think it'd be the other way around

[balmy condor]

what are we testing

I'm doing log reviews in sub

[low girder]

varo was curious if double potency ever outscales burrs

[pine torrent]

hey i need some tips on how to not fuck up my rotation

like i know when im supposed to press my buttons

but i always misclick and fuck it up

my weakaura gives me all the info i need but for some reason my hands keep fucking my rotation up

[stoic needle]

specifically dreamweaver double potency @balmy condor

@pine torrent spend a couple hours on a target dummy

also maybe examine your keybinds

if you're misclicking you might want to rearrange them

[pine torrent]

its not misclick like in popping vendetta at wrong times

[willow saddle]

How does the Assass single target opener look?

[pine torrent]

its stuff like using slice and rupture

when they are newly refreshed

my brain knows not to do it but my hands dont

[stoic needle]

yeah that's target dummy practice tbh

i still do the same thing sometimes

also maybe making the indicators for slice and rupture being up more visible on your screen

[pine torrent]

i use the infexxious weak auras

[balmy condor]

what

[pine torrent]

they are crisp af

[low girder]

basically with conduits getting enough ilvl would niya double potency ever be better than burrs

[pine torrent]

has a timer for pandemic and for the remaining uptime

[stoic needle]

it could be as simple as making them larger

[low girder]

my guess is no

[balmy condor]

I mean

who knows

[pine torrent]

but i see them though its not that

[stoic needle]

thats why we want you to sim it 🙂

[balmy condor]

I wouldn't expect it to

[low girder]

300 ilvl conduits pog

[pine torrent]

i know the mistake the second i make it if that makes sense

[stoic needle]

yeah i know exactly what you're talking about

cuz it happens to me sometimes

[balmy condor]

conduits kinda shit

I'll check it later

[stoic needle]

only thing that made it better really was practicing over and over and over

[red widget]

Is venom rush ever worth using over alacrity? In both pve and pvp?

[balmy condor]

no

[red widget]

Ok just checking lol

[pine torrent]

Venom rush is bis for pvp i think

remember a guy saying to use it

but i would ask in #pvp

[pulsar sluice]

i think most ppl play alacrity

[pine torrent]

for pvp doomblade is go to

[stoic needle]

its definitely not bis for pvp lol

[pine torrent]

idk guy i talked to might be wrong then

[stoic needle]

idk about that either but im gonna craft it and test it

[pulsar sluice]

literally everyone and their left nut takes alacrity

[stoic needle]

also just cuz i like doomblade

[pine torrent]

has anyone tested deathly shadows mdf build?

[pulsar sluice]

i just got doomblade today it feels ok

[pine torrent]

with elaborate mfd nightstalker and well placed steel

[stoic needle]

when we get to use 2 legendaries in 9.1 i'll already have it crafted

[pulsar sluice]

i like not relying on MA

n restelaths

like if im in rbg and i cant restealth

[pine torrent]

i use subterfuge

[stoic needle]

how meaty are the envenoms

[pine torrent]

i hate playing with vigor and with master assasin

so i use MFD and sub

[pulsar sluice]

well if u burst correctly they r pretty phat

vendetta+20%+34%

[pine torrent]

30+15+34+10+50

all%

[stoic needle]

think it's all muliplicative tho

[pulsar sluice]

doomblade gives u another bleed too

[pine torrent]

vendetta deathly shiv elaborate nightstalker

[pulsar sluice]

so mut doesn't feel llike abs shit

[pine torrent]

mut is a waste of energy 😦

[pulsar sluice]

not with doomblade

[pine torrent]

only reason to use mut is for CP

i use zoldycks only but i crafted zoldyck feet

cause im small brain it seems

[stoic needle]

at my current gear level with all the % bonuses including doomblade my envenom would hit for 11,335 non-crit

crit is 100% extra damage?

so that's a 22.6k envenom lmao

[hollow escarp]

[stoic needle]

nvm nightstalker is 25% in pvp

so

[toxic ravine]

What's bis lego for sin

[stoic needle]

9446 envenom noncrit, 18,892 crit

thats in my pve gear, might be more with high vers

bis sin leggo is zoldyck

[toxic ravine]

Sites are saying different things

[stoic needle]

it's zoldyck

[hollow escarp]

you can also sim your bis leggo

I had situations with gear where other legos simmed better

[toxic ravine]

Dashing scoundrel ?

Why you reckon zoldyck

[stoic needle]

dashing scoundrel is only good on single target

[pulsar sluice]

cuz execute is pve niche for sin

[stoic needle]

zoldyck is good on single target and multi target, and only slightly behind dashing for ST

[toxic ravine]

Ok ty

[stoic needle]

i dont care what the dipshits in the pvp channel say, i think doomblade has some potential

[pulsar sluice]

im not too worried what some of them say

[stoic needle]

i'm learning to not take the opinions of people who don't play sin seriously

[toxic ravine]

Why is necrolord bleed not important to us

[stoic needle]

it doesn't work with any of our abilities or legendaries

[toxic ravine]

I see, i thought it might of being a bleed

[stoic needle]

yeah you'd think it would but blizzard went out of their way to make sure that none of the covenant abilities work with our passives

except sepsis and shiv

it's really stupid imo

[deft vault]

Wait doomblade bleed count for the envenom dmg increase?

[stoic needle]

if it didn't the legendary would be literally useless

i just wish maim,mangle was good

[deft vault]

i was told it didnt

[stoic needle]

by who lol

[deft vault]

Whispyr lol

very early on the expansion tho

[hollow escarp]

[stoic needle]

@pulsar sluice can you confirm?

just uh

hit a target dummy with a mut, then envenom, then do the same thing after waiting for the mut bleed to fall off and compare the damage

[open swift]

!stats

[prisma monolith]

**Shadowlands: ** Haste > Versatility => Critical Strike => Mastery

[pulsar sluice]

ya it works

i hit 2.3k with crit and one bleed on 2 combo pts

[stoic needle]

How can we make these envenoms bigger

Prey on the weak, wild hunt tactics...?

That's another 20%

[pulsar sluice]

internal bleeding tho

[stoic needle]

Yeah that's a hard choice

[balmy condor]

[stoic needle]

5% + the damage vs 10%

[balmy condor]

are we seriously trying to just get higher envenoms

[stoic needle]

It's a theorycrafting exercise

[balmy condor]

most of the doomblade value is the mutilate dot

not the envenom increase

[stoic needle]

Why not both?

[low girder]

whispyr killing dreams with math

[spice spire]

Just MA vanish envenom MfD envenom ez

[stoic needle]

Remember this is for pvp whispyr

Knowing the max limits of your burst is important

[balmy condor]

oh yuck

pvp

[pulsar sluice]

ya pvp

you know

the best way to gear atm

[balmy condor]

ya pvp

you know

the content that can go fuck itself

idc if ti gives me 260 ilvl gear for being 2100

I'd rather uninstall

than do that trash

[hollow escarp]

yeah, when 1800 rating gives better gear than heroic raid

[pulsar sluice]

as a person that plays both and does mythic prog pvp aint that bad

[stoic needle]

Yeah but 1600/1800 isn't that hard to reach atm

[pulsar sluice]

just do rbgs 4head

[outer lodge]

Just rbg

for rating

[stoic needle]

I've suffered through dozens of goddamn plaguefalls for that trinket and gotten

N O T H I N G

[hollow escarp]

[stoic needle]

I cna suffer through a few hours of pvp for some guaranteed gear

[hollow escarp]

all from "daily rbg win" from lfg

[pulsar sluice]

if valor points were a thing maybe people would actually do mythic +

[stoic needle]

Also have you seen this week's m+ affixes

[balmy condor]

well anyways, just wanted to mention that doomblade's effect on envenom damage is like 10% dpet on single target, and if you're getting lucky vs unlucky crit rng, and get a couple less envenoms, that dps gain purely from envenom deeps is all but gone

so

keep that in mind

have fun with your pvp nonsense

[stoic needle]

I would rather neck myself than do keys this week

[hollow escarp]

in game

[stoic needle]

Irl

[hollow escarp]

[outer lodge]

LUL

[stoic needle]

Bro

Tyrranical

Necrotic

Bolstering

Absolutely fucking not

My key this week is SD

Literally

[hollow escarp]

I'm about to do a +12 plaguefall

[stoic needle]

No

Good fucking luck

[hollow escarp]

the leader is a guy that waited 10 min for a CR class

[stoic needle]

CR?

[hollow escarp]

combat res

are you NA?

[stoic needle]

Oh

[hollow escarp]

[stoic needle]

Yeah

[hollow escarp]

you guys say br

[stoic needle]

Lol

I don't have enough weed to suffer through keys this week

I refuse

[hollow escarp]

I already got my Poxstorm this morning

of outlaw ofc

[stoic needle]

nice

i have a 207 one collecting dust in my bags

[hollow escarp]

I had to chose between that and Dreadfire Vessel

[stoic needle]

i will never spec OL again if i can help it kekw

[hollow escarp]

and the trinket dropped in tonight's raid

[stoic needle]

wow

we have guild drama so i may not even raid this week

[hollow escarp]

this was my first raid with a new guild

[stoic needle]

i need a new one tbh

but they might not let me play sin

[hollow escarp]

I did more damage on Shriekwing last week as assassination than outlaw 217 this week

[stoic needle]

i routinely keep up with outlaw and sub rogues same ilvl as me

but that doesn't mean shit to meta whoring raid leaders

[hollow escarp]

semi-afk now, key started

[stoic needle]

praying for you

[hollow escarp]

prot pala tank

well, he forgot about pride

and pulled it with first boss

[stoic needle]

is the group still going?

[hollow escarp]

yep

I'm not a leaver

[stoic needle]

good

but what about the rest of the grp

people always leave on the first wipe in PF IME

[hollow escarp]

it went fine after that

so far

[strange python]

sin still trash?

[balmy condor]

its worse than the other specs, but not by a ton anymore

[strange python]

okay good. debating whether to come back or not.

[hollow escarp]

@stoic needle

[stoic needle]

god damn

congrats lol

[hollow escarp]

the tank just spaced out first boss

probably thought he was in heroic lol

ngl, I prefer bolstering over spiteful

also I can tell the group was mediocre when I had more damage than the boomie and the mage

[stoic needle]

Feels like every other pug is like that

[hollow escarp]

yeah, I really wanna start doing keys as sin

but outlaw is so much less effort and you can focus more on what's rogue the strongest in keys

controlling the mobs

[stoic needle]

Subterfuge garotte isn't gouge, but it does the job well enough. Especially with sepsis, you get a silence mid-pack without using vanish

[hollow escarp]

I hope they make the sepsis anima power a tier set in the future

the one that spreads

[stoic needle]

And being able to silence 3 adds at the beginning of a pack makes things less dangerous at the beginning

Yeah that would be sick

[hollow escarp]

it's my favorite button to press in torghast

[stoic needle]

They need to take a lot of stuff out of torghast and make it into real stuff lol

[hollow escarp]

that's what Ion said Torghast is about

getting ideas for future tier sets

he didn't use these words though

it was in the most recent Sloot interview

[stoic needle]

Vein rippers tier set N O W

Not when

Now

[fleet whale]

why do you want more vanish dependency

[hollow escarp]

I want Vendetta at 1 min CD

[fleet whale]

in legion it was like 1 min 23 seconds

[hollow escarp]

yeah

[fleet whale]

or something like that

[hollow escarp]

and in BFA we had vision of perfection if we wanted

everything was so low CD in legion

and feint on GCD

[fleet whale]

feint has always been on the gcd

[hollow escarp]

I mean it didn't had a 15 sec cd

so you could spam it

[stoic needle]

Doesn't have to be tied to vanish

I just want the effect somehow

[mighty zenith]

What 2 potency conduits for mythic plus?

[storm forum]

Does the Doomblade legendary mutilate bleed proc venomous wounds?

[storm forum]

It's in the pins:

Conduits:
Single Target: Well-Placed Steel >= Lethal Poisons > Maim, Mangle > Poisoned Katar
Mythic Plus: Reverberation >= Sudden Fractures >= Lethal Poisons = Septic Shock = Lashing Scars

[mighty zenith]

Septic shock over poisoned katar

?

Yea I know but wanna see if it ripple are having success with other combos

People **

[balmy condor]

lethal + wps

usually

[mighty zenith]

Ok thank you. Is there a situation where we would want katar?

[balmy condor]

no

[mighty zenith]

Cool appreciate it. I didn’t see it in the pins but IV says it’s best for aoe.

Why I asked

[balmy condor]

yeh

it's not worth the loss though

in single target

[mighty zenith]

Makes sense. Guess pugs wouldn’t rally take us if they wanted a lot of aoe dmg

Really *

[hollow escarp]

most pugs don't even check spec

[balmy condor]

^

that's not really the reason

the reason is just that it's not a great conduit

[hollow escarp]

I usually check their armory to see if they have the covenant I need for dungeon

a frost mage had to mention in chat that he isn't fire and he is playing venthyr

[storm forum]

is there a place to check the % of rogues that are each covenant?

[hollow escarp]

yes

let me find the link

https://wowranks.io/stats

[storm forum]

thanks bud

[hollow escarp]

damn, rogue is the 2nd least played class based on those stats

only 355k rogues compared to 723k druids on top

[balmy condor]

yeah

that's pretty normal

rogue is always lower player

[hollow escarp]

I'm more surprised to see monk lower

considering tanks are good for prog usually and windwalker is in a good state now

[tawny vigil]

Monk has been the lowest for eternity

[grim canopy]

because it plays weird even when it does good no one plays it

[tawny vigil]

that and WW has seen more bad times than good with no alternatives for dps

[hollow escarp]

a risky pick

unless you multi-role

[tawny vigil]

which multi-roling has been a chore and a half the last few xpacs

[hollow escarp]

certainly doesn't feel good

[storm forum]

and typically all but one of their roles tends to be dog

[loud niche]

whispyr, im doing it papa

im taking over from peen

little more gear and ill be ready

altho im garbage at sludgefist so...

[fallow otter]

Monks are just worst than vengence right now, they do slightly more dps but that's it

But yeh ww is good but the raid usually only needs one

[loud niche]

when does all-stars update?

[strange python]

The doomblade leggo is bugged for me. With all my bleeds. Envenom is hitting the exact same as the tool tip

[strange python]

is the tooltip actively changing as you put bleeds on things?

[balmy condor]

Also logs > tooltip

[mortal tartan]

should i go ep and ct for legion/sire or should i just stick with single target talents

[balmy condor]

Stick with single target

[covert cedar]

Hateful chain or stone legion heraldry (both at normal level) ?

[balmy condor]

Have you simmed it

[covert cedar]

Nah I just got it last night

(hateful chain)

[balmy condor]

I would try simming it

[violet wasp]

!stats

[prisma monolith]

**Shadowlands: ** Haste > Versatility => Critical Strike => Mastery

[slow marsh]

!bis

[prisma monolith]

Whispyrs Bis list: http://tiny.cc/76r5tz

[median mango]

I am confused by this, so no wps in m+?

[iron orchid]

well-placed steel is fine in MM+, especially this kind of week with tyran/bolstering

[median mango]

yeah thats what I figured. Was confused as to how sepsis would be more value

[strange python]

@strange python I'll check it out when I get home tonight. I never thought of that. All I know is that before attacking anything. The tool tip read 2300 or something. Then casting envenom on a target with all bleeds it was hitting about the same.

[tender sable]

I made a few sims in raidbots for my current gear and figured out that next week I can stick to Niya for sin soulbind with wps as first potency and traps for raid/katar for m+

This looks like a pretty well rounded setup for me damage wise

[median mango]

Doesn't sound too bad, although people here, e.g. whispyr are saying that katar is just bad. 😄

[balmy condor]

Heard my name

Katar good for aoe

Like 4+ target

Is fine

M+, sadly not always 4+ target

You got prideful, bosses, etc

So for a mists or a halls or something, katar perfectly fine

But I wouldn’t run it on like spire

[tender sable]

Having it in 2nd potency slot will allow to exchange it with traps next week

Which I was trying to figure out

[balmy condor]

Yeh I mean we get korayn in 2 weeks and then it’s just lethal poisons + korayn and we vibe

Katar is a Choice you have for a Second option if there’s giga aoe

[tender sable]

So far niya is best for me in all scenarios which I’ve simmed
What am I missing?

[balmy condor]

You’re missing first strike being huge

[spice spire]

So Korayn > Niya?

[tender sable]

Fully completed soulbind trees believed to be so 🙃

Sims of my character doesn’t support this idea but I totally accept the fact that I might be wrong with reading the results

[ocean vault]

so sorry to bother
which legendary power is best for single target?

[spice spire]

Pure ST is dashing scoundrel; however, if for literally anything else (add pop up in a fight, few second cleave) Zoldyck’s becomes bis

And the percentage isn’t that far off between Zoldyck’s and dashing

[ocean vault]

ahhh okay interesting

[potent crescent]

Every site I go to shows opener being different. Then I dive into logs and it’s different again. What’s the recommended opener for subterfuge?

[spice spire]

Garrote > mutilate > SnD

[mortal tartan]

single target?

[potent crescent]

Garrote, mut, snd, mut 4+ rupture, mut shiv vendetta 4+ env. Vanish garote in pandemic

[spice spire]

Well yeah, I should have asked that. Garrote all possible for cleave

[potent crescent]

Sing targ

Cleave is easy, spam bleeds

[mortal tartan]

if you are nf you sepsis early so you get that stealth proc and you use it for your next garrote

[potent crescent]

Just seems like everyone has a different variation of opener for single target

[mortal tartan]

then you can vanish - garrote after

[potent crescent]

I am nf

Use it with vendetta currently for the CP

[plain thistle]

sepsis doesnt buff garrote

but you should use it early anyway, because its our best DPE

[mortal tartan]

oh thats kind of awkward then

kind of useless proc unless you really need that stun lol

[plain thistle]

pretty much

[ornate dawn]

well you get an ambush out of it

[plain thistle]

no, you dont use the ambush

[mortal tartan]

an ambush that costs energy

[potent crescent]

So you garrote

Out if sepsis

Maybe they buff sepsis to grant stealth bonus

[pine torrent]

hell yea guys

wanna know something cool

maldraxxus covenant doesnt work on dummies

[potent crescent]

So what’s everyone’s opener for subterfuge?

[pine torrent]

garrote ambush garrote

then rupture

i mfd into slice then i use my bone spike every 5 sec

and do my shiv mut envenom pump

with vendetta

[ornate dawn]

I go Garotte, Mut > SnD, then Shiv, Sepsis, Rupture, then its Vendetta and Mut Envenom spam until Garottes about to run out then Vanish and reapply an Empowered garotte

[pine torrent]

why mut snd after first garrote

dont you want to reapply garrote for pandemic?

[quasi ledge]

You're wasting a ton of that Shiv :p

[pine torrent]

yea dont rupture inside of shiv

[ornate dawn]

shivs up for all of the vendetta envenom spam

[pine torrent]

and you want vendetta and shiv together

[quasi ledge]

From what you typed you're using Rupture at 2-3 combo points and wasting nearly half your Shiv

[pine torrent]

garrote>amb>garrote>rupt>MFD>slice>mut>vendetta>shiv>bonespike>envenom>mut til4/5>envenom(until shiv runs out,if maldraxxus remember to keep bonespike up)

if sepsis can crit its 2-4 point

[quasi ledge]

It doesn't, as its just a DoT

[pine torrent]

ahh it gives cp right?

i dont remember from leveling lol

[primal terrace]

Guys, how much haste do I need to play assa adequately cuz I'm thinking of changing spec 😄

[pine torrent]

you cant play assa right now

you cant get enough haste

[ornate dawn]

get out while you can

[pine torrent]

its viable i guess but its not good in any way

outlaw is go to right now

i think

[quasi ledge]

If you're asking that question, then yes you can play Assass

[pine torrent]

dont get me wrong i only play assa

but we dont have enough regen to feel nice

imo

[primal terrace]

I'm sub, don't like outlaw at all, wanted to give assa a try just for fun but I guess nah 😄

[normal mist]

I have around 25/26% haste atm

Only the weapons miss the haste due to being pvp :(

[vocal cipher]

which first legendary should i go for?

[normal mist]

Zoldyck

[vocal cipher]

thought so thx

[normal mist]

Bis overall

[pine torrent]

zoldyck legs

[vocal cipher]

with crit mastery right

[pine torrent]

doomblade is better for st i think

crit haste

haste is main stat

[vocal cipher]

okay thx alot

[wary ice]

im surprised zoldyck beats other options even with MA (talent) tbh

[stoic needle]

Doomblade is not better for St btw

I spent yesterday simming it the best I could get it is an 8 dps loss from zoldyck

It's surprising because it gives another bleed for venomous wounds

[wary ice]

Does doomblade proc vwounds?

[stoic needle]

I'm pretty sure it does

I'm gonna craft it today for PvP so I'll let you know

I wanna try out doomblade + maim mangle + wps

Or doomblade + sepsis conduit + wps

[wary ice]

Honestly i think Lethal poisons will still out perform both

[rigid wyvern]

I use sepsis in pvp

Also not going MA leggo in pvp feels real rough

[stoic needle]

The sepsis conduit is pretty big

I don't like my kill potential being tied to vanish and the MA window

[rigid wyvern]

Thats fair, just doesnt feel like you have a kill window without it tbh

[stoic needle]

You weren't here fr the discussion yesterday about doomblade envenoms

You can get 18k envenom crits with doomblade and all bleeds up

Slightly less if you don't vanish for NS, but still

I think it takes a playstyle adjustment

[rigid wyvern]

subterfuge is too good to pass up for NS imo

[stoic needle]

And doomblade theoretically gives you more energy to work with, and let's you get your bleeds back up after a Phial with a little less effort

[plain thistle]

pretty sure Venomous wound is just garrote-rupture-Internal bleeding

[rigid wyvern]

Fair enough, my experience in that Im getting less envenom damage but it is made up for by internal bleeding/sepsis/ambush crits

Ive mostly been doing 2s so the burst is much more important, I could see it being closer in 3s

[stoic needle]

It just sucks really bad with MA if you have to vanish defensively

[rigid wyvern]

fair

[stoic needle]

With doomblade you still have a way to kill people even if you have to defensive vanish

I mean hey it might still end up being shit, I won't know til I can play with it

[rigid wyvern]

I played with a 190 one for a bit

I think its also a feeling thing

is that its alot easier to feel the impact of 100% crit chance then 20% envenom damage

[stoic needle]

If you still have it can you test the venomous wounds thing? Lol

Yeah agreed