my wa doesnt have a built in envenom buff tracker rip
#assassination
strange python
balmy condor
that's fine
lethal coral
what poison combos are best used in dungeons and raid boss fights? or should i just be using crippling poison and mind numbing poison always in shadowlands?
balmy condor
wow, man knows his markdown 
you take deadly in pve, wound in pvp, and for your utility poison you usually pick depending on the tank
in raids usually numbing is fine, in dungeons tanks tend to kite a lot more, so you would take crippling unless you need to soothe
lethal coral
gotcha
raids i can use crip and mind, dungeons, would be situational, for instance, halls, and sanguine id like to take crip and mind
balmy condor
well you can only take 1
but yes, you would change depending on what the situation is
sinful sentinel
Cause 210s are only 25k on thrall right now
was thinking about grabbing two if it was worth it
strange python
do we not track envenom buff anymore?
also really noob question but does prepotting still work
havent been rich enough to try it until now
balmy condor
you can track it, but it's not really something to worry about
prepotting is not a thing, they're a hard 5min cd
balmy condor
so you do it with cds on pull, and then if the fight lasts long enough, you can get a second
strange python
gotem!
if the fight is guaranteed to be less than 5 like sludge
with a big damage window
do we hold
balmy condor
you can
like if you have a 4 min sludge kill
and lust on third pillar
you can hold your pot for that pillar since its lust + cds
honest lake
So pot in BL phase?
frozen jasper
which enchant on which dagger doesnt matter right ?
mortal tartan
usually sinful on MH and celestial guidance on OH, but for me it sims the other way around
i don't think it matters though
frozen jasper
aight thanks, cause it sucks to switch it around everytime you get a new dagger lol
oblique flare
@vestal wren
how reliable is the macro with gse, is it even allowed to use?
oblique flare
oh, so it's basically a faster castsequence?
oblique flare
ah kay, feelsbadman
balmy condor
like it will try to cast ambush, you hit the button, it tries to mutilate, you hit the button, it tries to ambush, you hit the button, it tries to mutilate
etc etc
oblique flare
gotcha, ugh, guess i'll stick to separate keybind
wish you could make auras trigger a macro
balmy condor
yeah that definitely doesn't sound problematic
if X target is casting Y ability, use macro
macro: kick
just an auto-interrupt macro
seems very intended
vestal wren
<@!194804407706189824>
how reliable is the macro with gse, is it even allowed t...
its allowed and reliable but it also means that you often need to press the key twice
oblique flare
yeah that definitely doesn't sound problematic
no, more like /cast ambush [blindside]
balmy condor
well yes, but that means the rule applies to anything with a proc right
so you just removed all procs out of the game
oblique flare
they could make it exceptional to some abilities 
sepsis also auto procs ambush if you set the macro to stance 3
balmy condor
well if they make it an exception for some abilities
why would they design them like that in the first place
they could've just said "your next mutilate is free" if they wanted to do that
oblique flare
would be nice tho 
mortal tartan
that would feel so nice
a free mut
honestly i forget about the sepsis ability sometimes
sinful island
is there any haste ammount that going over would not make a difference? or is it just more = better
balmy condor
more better
oblique kiln
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flint pier
hey guys
has there been any buffs or planned buffs yet?
and if not why do you think blizz hasnt done it
except like incompetence reason
balmy condor
we had a 5% at the start, then an 8% this last reset
and I think that's pretty much all we're getting
flint pier
hmm
that sucks
do you think that will make a significant difference?
Tbh i think the issue lies with how vendetta works
and exsanguinate/toxic blade
balmy condor
I mean, I wrote the pin saying that we're viable
flint pier
being on target debuffs rather than user buffs
balmy condor
so I think we're viable
flint pier
whats the lower boundary of viable in ur opinion
balmy condor
having a niche that would let us be considered over a different rogue spec
flint pier
whats our niche?
balmy condor
execute damage and high damage uptimes
misty holly
Design an encounter where we only get 5 seconds of uptime every 25 seconds. Just enough to refresh dots before having to run around dodging arrows or something. Assassination #1 rogue.
knotty sparrow
any hopes/thoughts on upcoming reset day? i bet they will do slightly more tuning. but i'm also thinking that since the arena world championships and m+ world championships are going on they will refrain from further tuning/adjustments
oblique flare
i don't expect any tuning until awc is over, and that's a maybe for any tuning after the awc
tranquil notch
So asssa is still on the bottom?
stone epoch
Nah, I think it’s demo lock now
tranquil notch
yeah, but I mean rogue specs 🙂
stone epoch
Oh! My bad. It’s bottom for single target but not nearly as much of a gap as it used to be.
flint pier
as in its not bottom for multiple?
mortal tartan
sin is fun af
knotty sparrow
i agree its very fun i think poison bomb still needs some love though. ive done whole dungeons where the tank moved the mobs out of poison bomb like every single time
the multidotting isnt enough to make the cleave/aoe even semi-competitive
mortal tartan
it feels so smooth for me because its not cooldown reliant at all
some people have had issues with energy but for me its not a problem
knotty sparrow
with the garrote talent that lets you garrote for free out of stealth you can garrote every mob in a pack in a couple secs just tab targetting, that is great. but it takes too long to rupture all the mobs there. poison bomb would fill that gap except the positioning of it is a dice roll
frozen forge
Just crafted Zoldy legs
knotty sparrow
meanwhile outlaw blade flurry + blade rush boom instant huge AOE
mortal tartan
do you 5 cp rupture every mob?
mortal tartan
oh i usually garrote as much as i can with subt, 1 rupture and then into FoK + CT spam
im not sure about poison bomb aoe rotation though, i just think ct is too good in dungeons
knotty sparrow
the problem is poison bomb can proc at the worst times, randomly, and oftentimes during periods of movement. the likelihood of it contributing 0 dps over the course of a fight is very very high
i haven't tried CT tbh
mortal tartan
i don't really even take into count pb being an aoe talent, the proc is pretty inconsistent and only procs off ST abilities
Its more of just a ST ability
CT is insanely valuable though and without it i feel like my aoe is absolutely garbage
knotty sparrow
its uncapped aoe unlike CT though, so if it DID proc at a great time the damage potential is hyeuuge
but yeah i should give CT a shot i imagine the consistent damage is decent
mortal tartan
i don't think in dungeons your pulls are going to be larger than 8
knotty sparrow
fair point
mortal tartan
definitely try it out though
its like playing sub without dark powder
if you dont have ct
rain peak
@mortal tartan what talent is CT?
frozen forge
how much of a st dps loss is CT
fossil slate
Crimson tempest
mortal tartan
@frozen forge sim shows 115 dps loss for me
frozen forge
<@!188410065105977344> sim shows 115 dps loss for me
but you prob gain a ton on aoe
mortal tartan
you gain astronomical amount of aoe
it feels unplayable without it in mythics lmao
i take pb when i raid though
long haven
is nf bis for assasin?
mortal tartan
yes
frozen forge
i went necro based on theme...im capped renown and not really wanting to switch and regrind
its too bad how nerfed bonespike is
mortal tartan
all the covenant abilities feel pretty useless imo
stoic needle
yeah but theres a difference between 'underwhelming' and 'actively frustrating'
flag is the latter
mortal tartan
i forget about sepsis in my rotation sometimes
mortal tartan
the extra ambush either gets overrided by blindside or is a loss in energy
stoic needle
it's good in M+ for a garotte silence or a cheap shot
mortal tartan
holy
ngl i started playing sub NF and i didn't even pay attention to the extra stealth proc because i was nearly always in shadow dance anyways
stoic needle
lol
mortal tartan
i thought it was an extra shadowstrike only
stoic needle
its pretty niche but like.. everything sepsis does is good
mortal tartan
im so dumb
yeah you don't really need to pay attention to anything either like the other 3 covs
charred terrace
Is there any reason we use Mutilate instead of Ambush during our opener?
mortal tartan
you get more cp
charred terrace
Where does the extra CP com from for using Mutilate? they both generate 2 CP baseline
mortal tartan
mutilate can give up to 4 combo points
each strike grants 1 cp, and a crit gives 1 each aswell
it strikes with both weps
its your seal fate passive
frozen forge
does master poisoner work better in m+ than blindside?
mortal tartan
i would go elaborate planning in m+
frozen forge
got ya
charred terrace
ok so it's bc Mutilate uses both weps whereas Ambush doesn't
mortal tartan
ambush can give you up to 3 while mut can give up to 4
topaz saffron
I've been bouncing between elaborate planning and blindside in M+. Both feel like they have a place.
topaz saffron
In higher keys especially with tyrannical I've definite favoured blindside
frozen forge
sorta goes with the Zoldyscks
mortal tartan
blindside only really feels good to me single target
the extra 10% damage is good all around with ep
topaz saffron
I'd either use elaborate and crimson tempest, or blindside and posion bomb. Both flow really well in my opinion. I've felt really comfortable with rotation.
frozen forge
one for aoe one for single
lethal coral
does assassination rogue do bonus damage in raid by standing behind bosses?
fleet whale
Nah sin doesn’t do any bonus damage regardless of boss position
Just try to always stay behind to avoid parry’s
stoic needle
it's viable
void canyon
aight thats all i needed to hear might swap back now
violet wasp
!stats
prisma monolithBOT
**Shadowlands: ** Haste > Versatility => Critical Strike => Mastery
native turtle
The recent hotfix turned assassination into the best single target, aoe, cleave, M+, raid, arena, and BG spec in the game
balmy condor
mortal tartan
is the unceasing chain link bug still a thing
stoic needle
yes
safe barn
if im running MA does the MA talent still works?
balmy condor
yes, but it obviously wouldn't do anything
dense cedar
playing sin will automatically call the police on u
dense cedar
playable but pointless if u like to play outlaw
dense cedar
have u tried outlaw this expansion
dense cedar
try feral
stoic needle
dont listen to van
he doesnt even have a red name 
play sin
hes right that outlaw is better but you can play sin perfectly fine
balmy condor
dont listen to oshosi
he doesnt even have a green name 
play sin
hes right that outlaw is better but you can play sin perfectly fine
stray ivy
im trying to find a video of sin in m+ after buffs but no one plays it
balmy condor
trying to find videos of anything
kinda jank
you'd either need to find vods of people
or just not bother
tbh
dense cedar
obtuse ruin
that dudes chat triggers me
obtuse ruin
im just going to assume that if a rogue and especially sin beats hunter and mage in overall then that hunter and mage suck
the banned dude
obtuse ruin
he always plays with some shit hunter or other dps and beats them in overall and shows off lol
balmy condor
well he's also like 221 ilvl or some shit
obtuse ruin
but also kinda happy assa is comparable to other melee now
stoic needle
dont listen to oshosi
balmy condor
he's banned?
yeah, 3 letter streamer man who spreads constant nonsense bullshit about mostly sub
rich patrol
What am I missing, messing around with Sin again, and all the pinned guides say to use Mutilate in the opener with Subt over Ambush. Ambush is doing twice the damage for the same energy, is it just for the chance that Mutilate gives extra combo points?
balmy condor
yeah
its combo point shenanigans mostly
you never ambush without a proc from blindside
rich patrol
fair enough, just wanted to hear it from someone else, would be nice if any of the guides addressed that since going off strait numbers Ambush is double
balmy condor
yeah, usually that part is left as an exercise to the reader
through things like #tc-research
balmy condor
fair enough, just wanted to hear it from someone else, would be nice if any of t...
(if you're interested, this was the last conversation about it: <#tc-research message>, I've been slowly stomping out ambush for a while now)
rich patrol
Interesting it was a gain to not use Ambush even with MA
balmy condor
yeah, subterfuge logic was already taken care of from a previous change
that was a follow up with MA/sepsis changes
now it hard stops ambushes, unless you get a blindside proc
safe barn
yeah, 3 letter streamer man who spreads constant nonsense bullshit about mostly ...
oh the streamer who said to not rupture
balmy condor
ye
frozen forge
so essentially only use ambush with blindside procs?
balmy condor
correct
stoic needle
on inerva, if Vendetta comes up right as she is summoning the adds, do you vendetta the large add and switch to it, vendetta inerva and stay on her, or hold it until after the adds are dead and use it on inerva?
also, is it worth it to hold sepsis for 20s for shiv to recharge?
blissful quiver
Isn't the cd on shiv relatively low anyway? I was under the impression you just wanna use it on cd (by that logic I'd say no, just use shiv)
spice spire
since it's only a 25s cd, I wouldn't hold it personally
balmy condor
you don't hold sepsis nor shiv
safe barn
with MA that ambush rule kinda changes right?
balmy condor
wdym
balmy condor
same logic
safe barn
so instead of garrote you use mutilate?
balmy condor
yes
safe barn
huh
low girder
Ambush without blindside proc bad
safe barn
saw this and got a little surprised
is sin really doing better than sub rn or is it the buff that made ppl play with it, hence, the better placing
balmy condor
both
spice pebble
Yea data can be misleading
I think we give it time before any concrete judgements
I can't imagine there are many top players using sin
spice pebble
Seems like it has a lot of potential so far
mortal tartan
its SO good bro
safe barn
if the soul ash wasn't a pain in the ass
mortal tartan
i couldnt ever imagine going back to the other specs
spice pebble
Like where I'm sitting, I'm keeping up with people 10 ilvl above me
safe barn
i would craft a zoldyck just to see what that feels like
spice pebble
warriors, hunters, warlocks
just in crappy +2 dungeons but it still feels good
Maybe if i hit i190 this weekend I'll get more invites to higher keys
spice pebble
Yea but think of it this way, who has completely min/maxed yet
we only just got buffed
most people aren't rolling sin like me, they have been outlaw or sub for a while
I really want to mess with the Phial of Putrefaction
that thing has to be BIS for us
thorn crater
buffs almost make me wanna put in a gamecard again but game is no fun playing it alone so
hope u guys enjoy it XD
spice pebble
That's where i've always liked Sin so much, IDC who I'm playing with
spice pebble
i have like.. 3 friends who are all in different guilds and they never invite me to their raids. we sometimes do other content together like BGs or dungeons
spice pebble
yea it's a struggle.. and a bit slower
thorn crater
cause i started a month late
mortal tartan
im 3rd highest dps on my raid as sin
spice pebble
i got to 570 pretty handily on my druid so that helps
mortal tartan
idk about outlaw, but if you arent a god as sub then its not worth playing
i think sin is most consistent spec
thorn crater
had pretty decent dmg as outlaw. but
spice pebble
I saw a god today... he was doing SO much dmg with Eviscerate it was insane
thorn crater
15 person guild that only plays arenas
and no irl friends
so game got boring
and i quit
XD
spice pebble
I couldn't actually understand what was happening
drifting imp
I tried sub for about 20m then immediately switched back to sin
Same lmao, i already hated the animation and sounds of abilities
stoic needle
i was consistently top 1-3 dps in my raid tonight as sin, and in the pug i did afterwards the same thing until people who outgeared me came in. amongst equal ilvl players I was matching or beating boomkins, UHDKs, mm hunters, shadow priests, mages, the whole 9 yards of meta specs
i was matching a sub rogue on single target
all of this while doing mechanics
ornate raptor
Yeah the moment people come who out gears you its over but the dps you do is still good even if your below them
ornate raptor
I did mythic first boss as sin. I honestly cannot complain. I was happy to be 7th on dps against DKs, monks etc
stoic needle
switching to night fae was like a 200 dps increase smh
this was all without PI as well
with PI im sure I could beat anyone at the same ilvl as me
ornate raptor
Pl? Sorry do not know all shortcuts
ornate raptor
Oh yes well funny story there
I went outlaw for council and one priest was buffing me with that
Didn’t realise it but got nr 1 real quick
stoic needle
it was super fun to be able to soulshape out to catch an inerva vial and then immediately shadowstep back to inerva and only lose ~2-3 seconds of uptime but nearly no damage because the dots keep ticking
ornate raptor
Dots are life
Thats honestly why i believe Sin will not be bad cause of the dots we keep up and other must run
mortal pike
How are all my assa rogue gamers doing after a week of being buffed?
mortal pike
the damage feel juiced?
balmy condor
I'm personally very happy with it
stoic needle
it's good enough for me to be near top dps in my heroic raid group
ornate raptor
Personally happy with it as well
spice spire
Sin feels great, don't go venthyr, night fae feels a million times better
spice spire
stoic needle
Flag and door are just dogshit compared to soulshape and sepsis
spice spire
Yeah, sepsis is huge. And it doesn’t take up double GCD 🙂
stoic needle
And grove invigoration is actually good like I had 50k hp in raid earlier
spice spire
I’m going on the second raid team/alt raid tomorrow on the rogue to see how it is before heroic prog Monday
Excited for it
stoic needle
This sin buff makes me want to get geared the fuck up and pump some numbers to show people what it can really do
spice spire
Same here brethren. I was chilling before
spice spire
Keys and OVP
dense cedar
Take CT in Torg?
cedar pilot
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lament dove
hm, I just noticed that the wording of seal fate says melee attack... so how and why does it work for FoK? in melee range?
polar sinew
hi everyone i was wondering how good assassination is in Torghast ? Like i'm geared outlaw 192 (i have daggers don't worry) but it's looks like so hard to keep going on it
I love this spec but Bli put it 6 ft under, it's so sad to have to play outlaw if i want to keep going on this spec... I take any tips that helped you to keep going in raid mm+ and Torghast with this spec
hollow escarp
assassination is pretty good in Torghast
there is some 1 shot potential for bosses
hollow escarp
well, sometimes you gotta fish for powers and zones
I usually don't do a run if I don't get a good power in the beginning or if I get a zone with bad affix
- magic damage and + phys damage are zones where I don't stay at all
that's for twisted corridors, for normal torghast it doesn't matter, with good gear it's very easy to do layer 8
hollow escarp
yeah
polar sinew
I dont give a fk about Twisted C lmao, if i do Torghast it's only for ash
hollow escarp
I would argue that assassination's leeching poison makes it better than other specs
although, first week of expac I wasn't able to kill bosses with assa so I switched sub to kill them 
polar sinew
i wish i was strong enough (mentally) to get over the nerf and keep playing it T-T
damn....
same i played sub then outlaw
but its so sad
hollow escarp
same here, crafted T2 Finality for sub, then T4 Celerity for Outlaw
but in the current melee meta, it doesn't matter what spec you play, nobody wants rogues 
polar sinew
lmao i have only T1 100% cri / T1 Celerity / T1 30% dammages on poisons
xDDDDD
no it's usleess when nobody have invi pot xD
it's useful*
hollow escarp
there is not that much stuff to skip this expac
most tanks have routes without skips
hollow escarp
I've seen smart routes where you don't really need to skip
got a tank in ToP that killed ghosts first, then went to the duel boss and we had a mob in perma cc just to kill it next to boss
I don't really mess with routes as a melee player, in pugs tanks are the ones who do that
polar sinew
yes true
limpid dirge
!fuu
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jagged bobcat
why am i seeing a bunch of assassination rogues, is this spec good now? lol
balmy condor
it got an 8% buff and became viable
hollow escarp
why am i seeing a bunch of assassination rogues, is this spec good now? lol
where are you seeing them? 
jagged bobcat
M+
hollow escarp
balmy condor
people were kinda sleeping on sin in m+ beforehand
hollow escarp
I know people who got Keystone Master on assassination
before the 8% buff
by people I mean 1 person 
dense cedar
Layer 2 of twisting already just a complete dice roll
idk if i'll ever bother with it
hollow escarp
I start having issues at layer 7
but for the sake of my sanity, if I fail a run, I don't start in the same day
dense cedar
i just lost all my lives to the floor 17 end mob
cos i never would roll evasion on my shadowstep or crimson vial gcd
and got insta'd
hollow escarp
not sure if my run bugged or not but skipped floor 17 boss in one layer by mistake
dense cedar
bugged
hollow escarp
I shadowstepped and moved a bit and I started the walking animation
so I skipped it
dense cedar
since the portal isn't meant to work till u kill it
hollow escarp
not 100% sure if it is intended to skip
dense cedar
was frustrating not getting any poison powers either
all my runs as outlaw in torg since they dded vein rippers
i've seen it once every run
first time doing it as sin
and not a single one shoed up
dense cedar
like as outlaw i see the actually worthless powers so often
hollow escarp
so I could roll defensives
dense cedar
but playing the spec that uses them
i got none
i get 1 red ink the entire run too lol
hollow escarp
yeah, I cba farming twisted corridors and I just fish when I do it, if I fail I'm not gonna try again in the same day
eventually I will get it
but it's so draining and not fun
dense cedar
fair
hollow escarp
it's the bad type of difficult
dense cedar
im just mad to get my time wasted
by getting all my lives taken by 1 enemy before the final boss lol
hollow escarp
I could do it with group and get it done faster, but it feels better to do it solo
dense cedar
seems like a cop out in a group
u being a tank and healer in to torg and it seems to stop functioning correctly
frail fossil
I know people who got Keystone Master on assassination
Peen has 1.6k rio as sin
and played it before the buff
actual legend
primal zinc
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dense narwhal
For raid bosses, do you use sepsis on CD?
Or maybe hold it for an add coming out so you can get the cd reduction
stoic needle
On CD
somber thistle
I know people who got Keystone Master on assassination
Ive been playing sin since the start. Sitting at 1k io atm, before the buff
But you can tell more people been pushing since the buff. I went from 33 world, to 53 since it dropped.
hollow escarp
unique plume
Any tips for what anima powers to stack in Twisting Corridors?
somber thistle
Yeah the power 'bring a buddy' . fucking hate torghast
elfin tiger
is it just me or is sin clunky af now
feels weird coming back since bfa
maybe im too used to outlaw
manic quartz
in opener do we vanish to pandemic refresh garrote or let it fall off before reapplying?
proud ledge
hows assa now after the aura buff? kinda made me pissed and i just swapped to lock but never actually looked after it
that 4% aura buff really tilted me
strange python
Hello everyone, i'm here because i question myself about assassination since the buff, is it viable on boss better than sub now? The logs doesn't have a lot of people on assa to determinate...
frozen forge
How long does it take to reroll renown?
Im Necrolord and love it but that 135 average dps gain from NF or Kyrian is tempting
real bay
not very
frozen forge
Would it be worth to swap and regrind out the renown or wait until Necro is buffed bahaha
I know once we are over 30 renown Heirmir for Necro is very good
mint cloak
Does it matter what covenant for pvp
serene basin
in opener do we vanish to pandemic refresh garrote or let it fall off before rea...
refresh with vanish after using vendetta
so you empower the bleeds
vendetta is aligned with venish
vanish*
so vendetta + vanish + garrote
and let it fall off
then you reapply it
or else you lose a empowered sub vendetta garrote tick
lol
serene basin
Hello everyone, i'm here because i question myself about assassination since the...
the spec is kinda good, tho is lower than sub and outlaw
outlaw cleave is better
and sub ST is better still
but if you want to play it, you can
viral juniper
assa always takes zoldyck?
strange python
best all-rounder and gives assa a niche, yes
coral yew
ionic smelt
210
dry chasm
ty
ionic smelt
225 is 3200 Soulash
dry chasm
thank u
viral juniper
what overall dps do you achieve in m+ 10-15 keys
just a number to orient if I am just bad or so xd
sonic wind
I saw one guy on twitch that did like 7k overall DPS with sin
viral juniper
7k jesus
sonic wind
In 16 or so
viral juniper
you got a name? xd
sonic wind
It was MA sin
viral juniper
okay crazy
sonic wind
I can't write his name, it's probably banned word, lmao
Discord delets my messages
Nvm, this guy just tested sin for few keys and then switched to Outlaw
But 7k was a kinda number
viral juniper
yeah 7k is nice, but with ma? sounds crazy
sonic wind
Yeah, he probably didn't want to make lego just for testing purposes, idk
this guy is right now #6 outlaw on raider.io
vivid hearth
whats the go-to talents for raid? Is MA better than Subterfudge?
Like general over all talents for castle
shrewd night
vivid hearth
thanks man
stoic needle
yeah 7k is nice, but with ma? sounds crazy
7k is not really a realistic number, that guy pads the dps meters to look good
Frankly the dps number at the end of the dungeon doesn't matter. It will change wildly due to group comp, affix combinations, and dungeon. Just focus on whether you time the key or not
iron orchid
I tend to be around 5k more consistently since the buff, and even higher sometimes
7 k with MA looks possible in NW, where you can use MA with the weapons they give you through out the dungeon
eternal vortex
is there any point to go for haste versa instead of crit-haste ? 
for m+ mainly
iron orchid
haste crit or crit haste in MM+ would be better at first
You would need more vers on higher keys to tank some abilities
But usually I would prefer crit/haste in most cases
eternal vortex
sooo if i just go for like a tons of conquest items and try to mix haste-vers and krit-vers items i wont go anywhere
iron orchid
You could still do solid damage
the goal is to have enough crit so that you feel you are generating "enough" combo points
and enough haste to hit faster and not feel energy straved on single taget
if you put everything else in vers to begin with, that's no big deal and you would eventually be able to get some more gear
to balance out your stats
storm onyx
I have missed the beta period for SL, thus maybe it seems late to brainstorm on assassination at the moment
But ideas matter for the future also
Have made a post on forum
Consists of some past elements, some ideas i come across, some ideas of mine
Would be nice to have a constructive rundown on ideas where many are piled togather
balmy condor
Discord delets my messages
Because the name is banned, yes. Please try to avoid mentioning him. We already have enough misinformation floating around in sub because of that dipshit, so it would be helpful if we just avoided him entirely
sonic wind
Ok ty for explanation
balmy condor
Would be nice to have a constructive rundown on ideas where many are piled togat...
You said sin is one of the most gear dependent specs in like your third paragraph, so I laughed and instantly stopped reading
real bay
its the stat scaling meme
storm onyx
Well, lack of needed haste is a gear accessibility issue
vivid hearth
is vigor or mark for death strongest for m+?
balmy condor
is vigor or mark for death strongest for m+?
Mfd if you can abuse it, vigor is probably fine
dry chasm
Dashingscoundrel or zoldyck?
balmy condor
Well, lack of needed haste is a gear accessibility issue
You see, the issue and comedy factor is that you believe there is needed haste to begin with
balmy condor
Dashingscoundrel or zoldyck?
Zoldyck
storm onyx
General player complaint is dps and low apm, clunkiness of the spec.
balmy condor
It’s faster than it was in antorus, and people loved legion sin
The complaint is that the damage is low, the speed isn’t the problem here, it’s literally just people looking for reasons to bitch
And that damage complaint, isn’t related to stats at all
Because that’s not how that works
storm onyx
You can always accept the low apm nature of the spec, i agree. Yet complaints are in that direction
quaint briar
!bis
prisma monolithBOT
Whispyrs Bis list: http://tiny.cc/76r5tz
real bay
sin has always been slow
storm onyx
Ok, instead of ditching something because it is wrong, you can choose to read and make your point too
balmy condor
This hurts the spec in every new expansion release until we get geared enough.
This is a complete joke as well btw
storm onyx
I don’t say i know all
balmy condor
Rupture dmg is upped and attacks gain armor penetration
Rupture already ignores armor
balmy condor
Oh you mean all attacks
strange python
Dunno what leggo I wanna make first. Assassination pros, halp.
storm onyx
Yea
eternal vortex
@strange python zoldyck is the all rounder
balmy condor
Can’t really fault you for opinions you have
I definitely disagree with some things
But I can see why you say them
And that’s normal, because that’s how opinions work
Nice work
storm onyx
Thanks
frozen forge
Pretty sad Feral is better at being a rogue
hollow escarp
yeah, but playing feral when balance is so good
frozen forge
Feral is almost as good atm lol
topaz saffron
Poison Bomb needs a little tweek, pure rng feels so bad when you don't see one for half a dungeon
frozen forge
YUCK
hollow escarp
why would you play poison bomb in dungeons? 
frozen forge
I wouldnt
topaz saffron
When I forget to change talents after raids 😭
hollow escarp
frozen forge
lol
hollow escarp
just play outlaw and never change talents 🙂
frozen forge
HAHAHa
topaz saffron
I've got enough RSI thankyou
balmy condor
PB in dungeons is fine in tyrannical
frozen forge
Id rub Blindside Subt PB on Tyrn
hollow escarp
if you go with 2 good aoe classes yeah
frozen forge
tyran
topaz saffron
Id rub Blindside Subt PB on Tyrn
👌
frozen forge
with Zoldys
jolly comet
i miss shrouded suff 
hollow escarp
bfa was great 
topaz saffron
Elab & CT on Fort weeks for sure
balmy condor
Well not sure about blindside on tyran
frozen forge
Works with the execute timing of Zoldys
topaz saffron
I assume Poisoned Katar is still underwhelming
frozen forge
for aoe its ok if you have trouble garrote tabbing
balmy condor
Yeah it’s just a small single target gain for a large cleave/aoe loss
So If bosses are literally THE ONLY concern
frozen forge
Yeah it’s just a small single target gain for a large cleave/aoe loss
Blindside
frozen forge
Ill stick with EP then thanks
balmy condor
Yup
topaz saffron
I prefer using BS on PF when pulls end up being small
balmy condor
I assume Poisoned Katar is still underwhelming
Yes
frozen forge
Well Placed?
balmy condor
Lethal poisons works 100% of the time :)
But yeah, wps is just stronger shiv
Which honestly is fine imo
More burst is always nice
eternal vortex
anyone missing TB 
eternal vortex
so lame doing 3k dmg on 6 shiv cast
topaz saffron
Ikr
hollow escarp
well, they took everything nice from assa and added to the other 2 specs
topaz saffron
Slice and Dice 🙃
real bay
shiv should be a complete separate spell, bring back tb
hollow escarp
yeah, it's a fun button to press
frozen forge
You guys use Ct in m+ no matter the affixes correct?
also if you run CT would you ever even use ambush seeming how Mutilate awards more combo points?
balmy condor
CT everything but PB probably on tyran
hollow escarp
I would still use CT on Plaguefall even on Tyranical, only first boss doesn't have ads
balmy condor
To that second question, you don’t run blindside, so you wouldn’t ambush anyway
drifting pebble
I wonder, Is now assasination rogue good in raiding after buff
stoic needle
So if vendetta is coming up right when inerva is spawning her adds, do you vendetta inerva(and then hard switch to the adds), vendetta inerva and don't hard switch, vendetta the larger add, or do you hold it until after the adds are dead?
balmy condor
Will the add live the full vendetta
stoic needle
Not usually, dies at about 15 seconds
balmy condor
Then you do not vendetta the add unless it is necessary for a prog kill
hollow escarp
also people use to focus the casting ad first
balmy condor
I’ll make a shitty flowchart about how I think about vendetta when I get up
stoic needle
So do I just hold it then?
balmy condor
You would vendetta inerva and cleave the add
stoic needle
Word. I usually try to get garotte and rupture up on both adds and maintain it on inerva
37 wipes on H inerva yesterday 
hollow escarp
but on prog we need to make sacrifices
balmy condor
Yeh
stoic needle
The first 15 were with my guild, the rest with a pug
stoic needle
We managed to kill her last week but this week it felt like people just forgot how to do all of the mechanics
Everyone kept dying with the shared suffering
novel star
!guide
prisma monolithBOT
hollow escarp
I still don't understand how that boss works, I just press blade flurry when I see ads 
balmy condor
Orbs are brutal
I call it in advance and pressure people to clear fast
As long as they do that it’s fine
frozen forge
would it be worth losing the aoe of CT on NW to use PB this week seeming how its tyran
balmy condor
CT will always do more damage imo
The question is where do you need the damage
Not how much does it do
frozen forge
Also SInful on main or off?
hollow escarp
the issue with losing CT is that you won't get to make friends in M+ pugs and maybe won't even get invited in guild M+ 
balmy condor
Also SInful on main or off?
It’s a buff with a proc rate, has no bearing on what dagger it’s on
frozen forge
ty
stoic needle
Yeah, our problem is people hesitating and trying to go to the same orb, or trying to predict the other person and wasting time moving back and forth to go to the 'right' one
Like when you're trying to pass someone on the sidewalk and you both go the same direction 3x in a row 
Soulshape makes getting to orbs so fucking easy tho holy shit
Soulshape is so lit
The upside of wiping 37 times on h inerva is that I know the fight like the back of my hand now
Is there any better use of cloak on that fight than trying to cloak the adds?
real bay
orbs are really easy if people figure out you see the orb on your head way before the beam spawns
stoic needle
I managed to pull it off quite a few times
stoic needle
orbs are really easy if people figure out you see the orb on your head way befor...
Bold of you to assume that people have good enough reaction times
real bay
thats the thing most times
people jsut dont move or notice
last kill i stood next to orb with my beam for like 10s
waiting for people to line it up
hollow escarp
just don't get picked lmao
if you never do mechanics, you will wipe so no bad logs for kills
real bay
big dps guaranteed xd
spice spire
if you never do mechanics, you will wipe so no bad logs for kills <:PepeLaugh:61...
True
stoic needle
last kill i stood next to orb with my beam for like 10s
Every time
I'm always the first person to my orb but healers or ranged take like 10s to get there
I just don't understand
jolly comet
you even get knocked back. you should know you gotta go do orbs
you can even game the canisters so you almost always have lvl 1 orbs
royal lantern
I'm always the first person to my orb but healers or ranged take like 10s to get...
you dont understand
i HAVE TOO FINISH THAT CAST
royal lantern
btw, melee brain xDDDDDDDDDD
jolly comet
they are trying to parse so they can jump to a better guild than yours
royal lantern
ranged has more mechanics, you smol melee brain dont understand
real bay
like, move and dps when you're at the orb
jolly comet
just geometry it so i can stand still and still do orbs please
real bay
it's not that hard
stoic needle
Literally one blink from soulshape and I'm within 1 sec of any orb
real bay
ranged are usually a bit closer where the orbs spawn yet they take 3x the time to get near one
jolly comet
you can even pre move cause the orbs spawn before you get picked
real bay
yea you can and should
stoic needle
Hahaha thank you whispyr
stoic needle
if we get a talent tree refresh in 9.1 that would be supremely poggers
novel star
crimson tempest base kit would be very very welcome
imo
maybe even make it a builder
like thrash on feral
could be neat
but i imagine most wouldnt like that v much
stoic needle
Nah, keep it a finisher and fix our actual aoe builder to not be trash
There's no reason why FoK shouldn't give combo points based on enemies hit.
The whole crit reliance thing for aoe cp generation just feels outdated. Hell if it were changed to be like shuriken storm and kept the seal fate passive it could make sin even better at 2-3 target cleave
Getting 5cp from 3 targets with 1 gcd or 4 from 2
void pecan
storm onyx
FoK cp generation change would be heaven sent
novel star
i think that would be very boring tbh
not boring, wrong word
it would just feel too strong
fok costs basically no energy
just going like
fok-rupture-fok-rupture-fok-rupture etc would feel kind of lame?
stoic needle
what is wrong with assassination being strong 
its no different from the current rotation except that you have less foks inbetween ruptures
novel star
it wouldnt be fun if it was that strong lol, or at least strong in that way
i feel like having to actually build your combo points is a vital part of any class that uses them
and also energy would just not exist
you would actually have to lobotomize yourself to go under energy cap even once
stoic needle
i dont think there is any satisfying way to to do that in aoe with the current builder we have
novel star
for more than a second
stoic needle
because it's going to become that anyway, later, when we have more crit
novel star
sin energy regen on aoe is already very good
novel star
because it's going to become that anyway, later, when we have more crit
Yeah but having it give full combo points every single time would just feel dumb strong
and also would make crit an irrelevant stat in m+
idk
stoic needle
i mean idk what to tell you dude it's inevitable that its going to be that way
as the expansion progresses
all this does is make us feel less shitty when we're undergeared
and make our 2/3 t cleave stronger
oblique flare
you literally do shuriken storm, BP, i macro'd that because of how easy it is to get combo points
so idk, fok rupture would be pretty fair
novel star
i dont think sin really needs that amount of help
after the recent buff we're super good
oblique flare
super good
novel star
just cause i enjoy the spec doesnt mean i need it to be like gamebreak op but i guess to each their own
novel star
**super good** <:monkahmm:585734084571955211>
i mean there's better dps but sin is in a far better state than it was before
stoic needle
i just disagree with you that this change would make us gamebreakingly op
especially since it's a natural progression of the spec as it currently stands
novel star
i dont think it would be fun to only ever have to fok once
sometimes crit wont work and thats good?
imo anyway
stoic needle
i mean ideally we'd get a talent refresh with some new talents to replace ct after making it baseline, and fixing up the alacrity row but i think that's asking for a lot and i'm not super hopeful that blizzard will do it
novel star
pplaugh
poison bomb being an active would be neat
if ct got a nerf/rework to make it fit
but yea
just dreams
stoic needle
god i would fucking love for sin to have reliable uncapped aoe and for that to be its niche
novel star
to be fair
feral is basically just sin
and has uncapped aoe
i guess a rogue spec being uncapped would be nice though
stoic needle
meh idrc about what other classes have im just talking about within the rogue class
stoic needle
i would just like the niches of the specs to be more fleshed out. sub for st, burst and funnel(get rid of black powder and the weird ass sustained aoe it gives it), outlaw for cleave, sin for uncapped aoe, dots for mechanics and execute dmg
novel star
assuming you meant for the first one to say sub but yeah
would be nice
i think blizz is afraid of making specs too situational though which is fair
anyway gonna go game 
dark arrow
had a guy in a mythic + group suggest I use master poisoner instead of blindside in my talent build. also suggested to look into deeper stratagem and internal bleeding. in the wowhead guide it doesn't say to use any of those the pinned msg on this channel with talent builds also doesn't say to use them. Is there something new about them that I should know and just things haven't been updated yet?
balmy condor
dark arrow
I have been raiding on Sin. feels great in single target or even fights with 2 or 3 targets. i'm usually in the top 4 for dps, even against ppl with better gear. now mind you they are not pros hitting their abilities perfectly for max dps mind you lol. @sweet wedge
even out performed our combat and sub rogues (our raid group has 3 rogues so 1 of each spec lol)
sweet wedge
I see 🙂 I like Sin more than Outlaw because it's not as RNG.
Are you using Dashing Scoundrel?
sweet wedge
I see! Ty 🙂
balmy condor
mp is definitely not good
btw
its the worst talent in that row
deeper is like
okay-ish
its usually just worse
and internal doesn't really do much in pve
so uh
not sure who that dude is
but sounds like pvp brain
low girder
gonna start telling sub pve players to run nightstalker
fleet whale
internal bleeding is great in torghast
dark arrow
probably. he was a shaman healer in my group
balmy condor
k
dark arrow
I just assumed its an alt and he mains rogue but he could very well be a pvp guy. he was a random
balmy condor
mp/deeper/internal sounds mega pvp
balmy condor
nah
people were running deeper on sin
trying to get the most envenom nightstalker damage
fleet whale
MFD kidney is really good in pvp though, and not as gimmicky
lament dove
yeah I guess we all know the feeling when random people are trying to tell us how to play (this was in BfA with haste build)
balmy condor
priest healer never played melee before: "yo why would you take vigor, deeper is literally just free finisher damage"
yep
sounds good
low girder
tb over exsang lol
would make sense if it was a dungeon i guess
at the time
but haste build was still fine
sonic wind
Did 3.9k overall in 12 key, seems pretty ok, outdamaged hunter and mage
royal lantern
tbh.......that hunter and mage where really really really bad then lol
without beeing insulting or something
sonic wind
Next was 13 with 4.2k overall DPS, however there were Balance with 5.4 😦
obsidian willow
how is assassination going so far?
median mango
Has anyone tried Sin for raiding yet?
Outdpsed a better geared outlaw on council today and he called me a chad. So I'm doing fine. 😄
obsidian willow
im assuming that sin would do better in council cuz you can benefit from zoldycks a lot
stoic needle
Outlaw still does better ST dps though
Now the gap is small enough that a good player can rise up and pump
balmy condor
im assuming that sin would do better in council cuz you can benefit from zoldyck...
you actually benefit from it, for 30%
cause that's how percentages work
stoic needle
30% x 3 = 90%, it's simple maths whispyr
obsidian willow
yeah, i assumed that sin would do great in council esp with zoldycks
stoic needle
It's still just 30%
dense cedar
Should I use Hidden Blades if I'm a fan of Assassin's Creed 2?
rigid mauve
definately
stoic needle
rigid wyvern
the only multi target fight where zoldycks is extra beneficial would be huntsman I assume once you kill the final dog
rigid wyvern
cause of the damage buff
rigid wyvern
ofc
frail fossil
dots are 30% ish of sin damage
rigid wyvern
30-40%~ish
strange python
So for 30% of the fight 35% of our damage is increased by 30%
strange python
Why would you assume I meant time
frail fossil
30% is faster than the rest of the fight if u lust it
30% of the fight
sounds like u meant time
strange python
30% of the fight from a damage perspective
frail fossil
oh ye
strange python
I’m just trying to calc zold dps increase
Since I don’t have sin leg yet
5% ish
frail fossil
any scoundrel gamers in chat
strange python
Oh yea I knew I could calc myself so didn’t bother asking or looking kek
frail fossil
not one used it cuz it's like ST only right
dense cedar
Nax being obtuse 😔
strange python
I’m not sure to what you are referring
dense cedar
dw
ebon wyvern
do we ever use Ambush with subterfuge? or just mutilate?
balmy condor
ambush only with blindside procs
ebon wyvern
ok
plain thistle
or when playing outlaw for Cto
just need 1 226 dagger, then I can at least play ass for some content
mossy sable
So turns out
I am REALLY bad at Sin rogue
And need more work (Or to just stick with Outlaw and get gud)
viral meadow
And need more work (Or to just stick with Outlaw and get gud)
look at peoples logs and their timelines on warcraftlogs
see what they're doing
viral meadow
I found denath quite tricky to optimise. There are a few people doing it differently who are parsing 99
viral meadow
sure
mossy sable
I am/was doing bad at Outlaw
viral meadow
you mean like there are probably better ways we dont know of yet?
mossy sable
So I was considering trying Sin
mossy sable
you mean like there are probably better ways we dont know of yet?
No no I mean like someone will always have a 100 parse right, cause it's based off the average dps of all sin rogues at that dif
meager bay
Guys im new to assa what stats should i focus on and what legendary and cov should i go?
mossy sable
Logs confuse me tbh
viral meadow
Yeah. no matter which way you slice the cake sub and OL are gonna be better for dps
viral meadow
Guys im new to assa what stats should i focus on and what legendary and cov shou...
check the pins in the channel. short and sweet? night fae and haste
or kyrian pre 30 renown
stoic needle
And need more work (Or to just stick with Outlaw and get gud)
link a log
mossy sable
I will try and get a better one
I used it on one fight and also had no clue what I was doing other then try and keep dots up
stoic needle
For Denny I try to keep rupture and garotte up on Denny and remornia and pump as many envenoms into Denny as I can
patent plaza
Was doing faction daily and got maim and mangled. Shocked thats not a decent combo with doomblade
fleet whale
the bigger part of doomblade is the envenom bonus damage
the bleed from mut is nice but it isn't enough to make maim mangle great
stoic needle
the problem is that mutilate doesn't do any damage
13% more of almost nothing is still almost nothing
i wish it were good tho i like the concept a lot
"oh shit, we have an assassination rogue?"
"yup, and he was 4th highest dps too"
quotes from this xymox pug 
beat the sub rogue by 200 dps and matched the outlaw rogue even after dying from the last annihilation blade
if i'd lived i'd have been 3rd
fallow otter
Tremendous
novel surge
What is the best legendary to use for sin?
mortal tartan
zoldycks
cedar steeple
rigid mauve
do you guys have anything to say for favor of assa spec for a classic tryhard who just got into retail and hit 60? 😛 would prefer to play assa over the 2 other options probably
fallow otter
do you guys have anything to say for favor of assa spec for a classic tryhard wh...
It's easy and many people like it, just play it bro
mortal tartan
getting 3 dots on multiple targets with zoldyck legendary is more satisfying than anything outlaw
rigid mauve
i hate the concept of outlaw, i for sure wont be playing that
so its either sub or assa and i kinda like assa style
storm perch
getting 3 dots on multiple targets with zoldyck legendary is more satisfying tha...
i even found it more satisfying compared to sub rogue
but it still the worst spec (sin) among others specs
mortal tartan
i think its better than sub
sub can pull higher numbers, but most people playing it cant
storm perch
sub can pull higher numbers, but most people playing it cant
but it's a problem of ppl, not a spec itself
fallow otter
so its either sub or assa and i kinda like assa style
Have you tried outlaw for very long? Or at all? It's probably best to learn, it's great in every situation except on demand burst which is proven to not be required to do all the content in the game. give it a really good crack imo, you can always go back to sin if you like
Only need to craft one legendary, has a great conduit
Lots of good things about outlaw right now
rigid mauve
i did try it while leveling but i really dont like the playstyle or the idea of it at all ever since it came out
mortal tartan
sin doesn't rely on cds like sub and outlaw
which makes it really smooth especially with a dh tank hopping from pack to pack
grim hornet
if sin is still runned with subterfuge gl with chainpulls
misty holly
sin doesn't rely on cds like sub and outlaw
No wonder sin is what I play these days. Cooldown based gameplay is not something I particularly enjoy. Somewhere along the way the rogue specs went from Adren Rush and Cold Blood being the only cooldowns (both had a fairly minor impact on pve) to entire specs being designed around cooldown windows UGH.
And through playing alts I find way too many other classes gameplay is that way too.
For me, it's really disappointing they developed the game in this direction.
fallen bay
Is assa still worst of the 3 in dungeons and raid ?
rugged dragon
Is assa still worst of the 3 in dungeons and raid ?
yes
mortal tartan
pretty sure its better cleave and aoe than sub
fallen bay
what about Bgs and casual PVP ?
rugged dragon
Still the other 2 are better I would say.. Not 100% sure
Maybe casual pvp better to be assass than outlaw, sub still king
grim hornet
my personal experience in rbgs has been that if u bring a rogue, u want it to sneak and burst ppl. I think assa's burst is a bit worse than sub for that. Outlaw rogue can be brought to teamfight but for that purpose you just don't bring a rogue
i mean, outlaw cleaving all shit can be so much fun, i have yet to try it
rugged dragon
I mean, with Memory of Past Sins trinket. Its pretty good burst
I did RBGs as outlaw
cleave is pretty damn good, and I was able to ninjacap still
And take the 1v1s
grim hornet
ye mobility in outlaw is nuts
i don't think i would be that confident for 1v1 with outlaw as im with sub
rugged dragon
Also, dismantle & Gouge
grim hornet
ye that's true
rugged dragon
Makes stuff so much better against warrior for example
grim hornet
more like a fc and teamfighter instead of a sneaky burster