God, NF mog is bad
#assassination
sinful sentinel
modest dove
Yeah
stoic needle
Night fae has 3 viable soulbinds and the others barely have 2
fleet whale
i pretty much use bloodfang 24/7
modest dove
But there's other goodies
stoic needle
Dude
fleet whale
maybe swap to mythic felblade
modest dove
Valorous bonescythe 
mortal tartan
if you don't min-max as sin is it even worth playing
stoic needle
I've run mc and BWL every week since xpac launch and I haven't gotten a single bloodfang peice
fleet whale
not a fan of the NF dagger looks, but again, xmog lol
mortal tartan
our spec is hanging on by a thread
sinful sentinel
Mythic Doomblade on male BE is pog
stoic needle
It's not that bad
mortal tartan
well some people think it is
stoic needle
Ya I think I'm just gonna go nf and do like mythic black rock foundry mog or something
mortal tartan
because they switch from sub to sin and have 5% haste
fleet whale
just barely anyone plays it
stoic needle
One of the poisony ones
sinful sentinel
Sin is going to scale like crazy at some point like it always does
mortal tartan
they also complain that their 5 point ruptures on all trash mobs are keeping them from envenoming
modest dove
Sub is dumb, mut is cute
stoic needle
Sin is going to scale like crazy at some point like it always does
Be careful with the S word we don't say that around here
Whispyr's gonna come bonk you 
mortal tartan
mut with thunderfury weapons is the only reason why i main the spec
oblique flare
will it though? I mean, better tuned classes should also get better with gear :p
stoic needle
That's exactly it
sinful sentinel
Just join a shitty guild, boom top dps
oblique flare
i lost faith at the clown fiesta SL is
stoic needle
I have a good feeling the new borrowed power system in the next patches is gonna be huge
For us
spice spire
The S word 
modest dove
balmy condor
I felt a disturbance in the force
plain thistle
at least we know how to summon whispyr now 
stoic needle
Just say "rupture snipe scaling double garotte opener" 3 times into a mirror and whisper appears behind you and kills you
pliant apex
I have a good feeling the new borrowed power system in the next patches is gonna...
what is borrowed power thing?
spice spire
every time someone says the S word
stoic needle
what is borrowed power thing?
We have no idea. But if azerite power is any indication it's gonna be ridiculous
It's just blind speculation on my part
Don't take it seriously
We could be trash
spice spire
We are
stoic needle
If I had to guess, we're gonna have some kind of separate conduit tree for conduit sets like old tier sets
And maybe that way we can get good shit like Shrouded suff and EB back
stiff sphinx
Hey guys i have a question about my rotation im asking if it is still viable
actions=stealth
actions+=/variable,name=energy_regen_combined,value=energy.regen+poisoned_bleeds7%(2spell_haste)
actions+=/variable,name=single_target,value=spell_targets.fan_of_knives<2
actions+=/call_action_list,name=stealthed,if=stealthed.rogue
actions+=/call_action_list,name=cds,if=(!talent.master_assassin.enabled|dot.garrote.ticking)
actions+=/call_action_list,name=dot
actions+=/slice_and_dice,if=spell_targets.fan_of_knives<=(5-runeforge.dashing_scoundrel.equipped)&buff.slice_and_dice.remains<fight_remains&buff.slice_and_dice.remains<(1+combo_points)*1.8
actions+=/call_action_list,name=direct
actions+=/arcane_torrent,if=energy.deficit>=15+variable.energy_regen_combined
actions+=/arcane_pulse
actions+=/lights_judgment
actions+=/bag_of_tricks
stiff sphinx
wait i have to put the rest
balmy condor
that's just the default list
no you don't
that's just the sim apl
whats your question
stiff sphinx
why can i only 100-50 no matter what i do anymore
stiff sphinx
100-0 is not possible
stiff sphinx
why cant i one shot people anymore
balmy condor
because nightstalker got nerfed
stiff sphinx
no matter what i do
balmy condor
and ER got nerfed
stiff sphinx
FFFFF
stiff sphinx
is there a viable way to fight anymore as assassination?
balmy condor
aeiou
modest dove
Bleep blorp does not compute bleep blorp
DAVID GARDNER
holy shit whispyr lol
Maybe coincidence idk
modest dove
Bless
stoic needle
In phase 1 of Sire, when the adds spawn, what do we do without CT? just keep spamming FoK to aoe them down? manually focus target with mut? that's the one part of the fight I don't quite get, not sure if i'm misplaying by spamming FoK
iron orchid
What i do is pure focus on sire while using fok as cp generator instead of mut
when needed, i target adds manually
You could also
||RUPTURE SNIPE||
but that's not allowed here
spice spire
stoic needle
haha word i'll try that next time
my RL always yells at ppl for not hard switching to those adds but they dont understand the funnel
static portal
Do you feel ass is viable in raid and myt+ now?
stoic needle
yes
opaque island
Would venthyr be a decent option to try for all content? Can't really find any information and I'm tired of night fae and kyrian
static portal
hmm, prob gonna try it out. i don't like the way outlaw is played. And kinda need to try something else than sub ^^
spice spire
It’s sim bait
Venthyr may feel better at 30 renown, but right now it feels fairly bad
Night fae and kyrian are definitely better at the moment
opaque island
Ahh okay. How does night fae play? I'll be starting to level tonight when I get on
stoic needle
Would venthyr be a decent option to try for all content? Can't really find any i...
Do not go venthyr
modest dove
Salv do it up man, my motto is sub is dumb, mut is cute. Have at brother 
stoic needle
Even 30 renown won't change our soulbinds and ability from being trash
opaque island
Looks like I'll go fairy
plain thistle
we are not mut, we are ass 
stoic needle
I'm omw to oribos right now to swap 😔
opaque island
Ouch
And all rogue specs are very competitive in raids and dungeons? I know sub is mostly pvp
stoic needle
Actually I'm gonna finish the covenant campaign first for the mount and then swap lol
Naw, sub is still solid in PVE
All specs work in all content to varying degrees of effectiveness
spice spire
All are competitive, sin is numerically the worst but is still completely viable
opaque island
Yeah in pve I play a warrior so I know all about bottom tier
stoic needle
It's good enough that you can play any of the specs at all but the highest level and be completely fine
I feel you man my other favorite class is warrior
modest dove
Isnt fury in a pretty decent spot now postbuff?
stoic needle
Apparently so
modest dove
And for keys they were def solid prebuff
stoic needle
But they still have some of the utility issues
modest dove
Ive had some big pumpers
stoic needle
That we have
That's all they really do though, pump hard. Which is fine I guess but boomies and hunters pump just as hard with more utility
It's the age old problem
Blizzard hates melee or whatever
opaque island
I'll be raiding tonight as fury so hopefully I can get away from arms
This raid tier is horrible for melee
But I only play melee classes
I'm gearing an elemental shaman right now incase my guild asks me to switch to a ranged dps
modest dove
I mean, does every single person need to have a wide utility kit to bring?
Cant people just slam
limber swallow
the problem is the risk / reward ratio is off. I don't mind if melee is going to be a high risk role, if the reward is there. It's just not there for most melee classes right now
opaque island
Nope its not. You're exactly right. Melee got shafted hard this tier
raven egret
the reward is that being melee gives you an excuse to do low dps
limber swallow
lol
opaque island
Lmao
raven egret
if you do low dps as an affli lock u will get shit on
standing still spec
range noob
opaque island
Yeah. I can't get into any caster. Like I love idea of them but I just can't do it. Too boring
raven egret
playing range this tier must be so boring
modest dove
That would be the fotm shitters switching and smoking dicks and complaining the op spec isnt op because ree n shit
raven egret
you barely have raid mechanics
opaque island
Lmao
modest dove
The mm hunter numbers in mythic CN is insane lol
Like twice the amount of 2ns
2nd*
stiff sphinx
where are we on the list?
stoic needle
Middle of the pack
opaque island
The only melee dps that beats me in dps is our unholy dk
stiff sphinx
yikes
opaque island
Hopefully fury overtakes arms which probably won't happen
stoic needle
I don't really care about being the best of the best, I just wish we had more damage to compensate for all the bullshit we have to deal with
stiff sphinx
they do nothing but take it is their way
opaque island
In my raid group they're still doing progression and sitting all melee almost
limber swallow
makes sense.. it's just easier.
modest dove
This is the way
opaque island
Were straight up melee heavy
stiff sphinx
im wondering if i should reroll at this point
modest dove
Because it's more fun
Not the fucking zug zug convoke aimed shot fireballfireballfireballfireball
Like since switching back to mut im having fun. I catch myself smiling occasionally while playing, wtf is this you cant do that make it stop
Especially in bgs
opaque island
I'm seriously straight up considering just telling them I'm going ranged to keep my spot
stoic needle
makes sense.. it's just easier.
Honestly I don't agree with this. If you aren't doing a world first race it's dumb to sit melee dps
You can clear mythic with all kinds of janky ass comps if people just do the mechanics
limber swallow
Honestly I don't agree with this. If you aren't doing a world first race it's du...
I agree with you. If my raid group benched the melee because of progression, I'd find a different raid group.
stoic needle
But people think they're method and that they have to carbon copy the wfr
Just to clear
raven egret
you cant clear mythic with major melee comp lol
denathrius has a mechanic melee literally cant do
stoic needle
?
raven egret
even if you got there
stoic needle
What mechanic
raven egret
sinsear
opaque island
Problem is for me the raid times are best I can only raid sat/Sunday at night
So ill stick if out
stoic needle
oh is that the one that shoots out tons of bolts
raven egret
like i know lots of mechanics in cn are melee unfriendly
but that one
literally cannot be done by a melee
stoic needle
now let me be clear i'm not saying that you can clear CN with a full melee comp
obviously you need some ranged
but its not to the point where you should be benching melee just to progress
raven egret
yeah maybe if you run melee heavy and blast the other 3 adds
and have range always on sinsear
opaque island
Id play shadow priest if made to
raven egret
i really dislike new sp
modest dove
You are pretty much an old god now
That is my fly on the wall hot take. Priest is the only class ive never made playing since vanilla
But it def looks like it
limber swallow
I'm not switching classes. Hopefully blizz has noticed that they need to rebalance the damage profiles for melee to move damage away from passive sources like melee damage and towards active abilities. That would greatly reduce the uptime penalty from mechanics. Course, it would also make specs "burstier"
stoic needle
god forbid we actually do good damage
limber swallow
this feels exactly like the start of pandaria. The end of pandaria, rogues were godly, but at the start it was painful
stoic needle
from my understanding the damage profiles naturally shift away from melee as we accumulate more stats but i hope they don't leave it just to natural gearing
spice spire
ToT sin was godly. Or the guild I was raiding with at the time was bad
fleet whale
ToT sin rogue was good and the start of SoO sin rogue
but then pvpers cried, and it got nerfed
and sin was stuck in bottom tier for over 2 years
spice spire
Got hard stuck on heroic lizard dude then I quit for 10 years, and here I am once again
fleet whale
didn't really play wow in early mop
spice spire
I unfortunately remember MSV.
fleet whale
and yeah, people think auto attack damage is bad now for sin
they should've seen it in Wotlk, cata, or mop lol
stoic needle
lol
limber swallow
I don't remember it being bad in cata.. fangs helped tho
fleet whale
cata sin was clunky af
limber swallow
but then again, that was the last raid of the expansion
fleet whale
VM not being 100% chance to proc energy
having to switch to using backstab in execute
fleet whale
there is one thing i do miss from cata though: the overkill talent
stoic needle
i cant imagine doing that shit back in the day
spice spire
It was ez as shit
It’s harder to solo as there’s no one to balance the spine
You also one shot the amalgam now
Which is problematic lol
(It was definitely the hardest part at the time)
fleet whale
you have to take poisons off your daggers
and just strafe back and forth on the spine
limber swallow
I had to drag my guild through it just to get my fangs done.
I found that spine is easiest if you just remove your mainhand weapon
stoic needle
i just kill all of the tentacles except one, and sit in one of their spots until i get 9 slimes around me
fleet whale
you can balance the spine solo, but you just strafe around
stoic needle
FOK the slimes after he does a spin, then kill th etentacle nd kite the amalgam through the orbs
it's pretty reliable but such a pain
fleet whale
chess is still sometimes dumb to solo in kara lol
opaque island
I remember getting daggers as soon as I got my rogue to 85 in cata. I got them when I was in greens. The first set that is
vivid hearth
whats the best leggo for m+?
stoic needle
zoldyck
opaque island
Whats a good overall lego for pvp and pve?
shrewd helm
MMA
spice spire
Master assassin and Zoldyck are both fine.
Lean toward PVE? Zoldyck is good.
Pvp? MA
stoic needle
Hit and run with your dots and watch the rot
Especially since affl and boomkin are doing the same thing
strange python
does sepsis give you a buffed garrote?
strange python
hmmm, ty!
fleet whale
the final bonk of sespis lowkey can hit decently hard
modest dove
Yeah and its tasty
hollow zephyr
How is sin rogue now after the bufff?
strange python
Just like all other rogue specs. Fine, but GL convincing a raid lead to bring a not-DK
stoic needle
WTB sin fights kthxbye
turbid dew
How do you guys deal with mob packs as Assassination in Torghast? Do you play it like a M+ where if you have Subterfuge, you garrote 3 different mobs, SND and try and rupture each mob?
stoic needle
yep
strange python
Sure could be a sin fight if you need to rip energy from adds into sire.
Sire*
But...outlaw will probably still be better
stoic needle
outlaw is just built different
strange python
I wouldn't be shocked if it's like bfa - outlaw strong in first tier, scales to shit over the expansion, becomes a meme pad spec by the end
turbid dew
Also in Torghast are the anima pets running over and pulling packs for you all?
stoic needle
only sometimes
they chase mawrats and pull extra shit but that's about it
in torghast its really a matter of pulling the right amount of mobs. as long as you dont overpull it's nearly impossible to die
unless you're undergeared
modest dove
Yeah
stoic needle
or its soulforges before you get the flame reduction power 😠
turbid dew
I am to the point where I might not pick the anima pets
stoic needle
i like the one that gives you the 30% haste proc
i'm telling you that one is fucking bonkers
modest dove
They are as smart as you are
stoic needle
it tanks for you and i got to 115% haste last run with the buff and venthyr flag up
its nuts
modest dove
You play smart they act smart, you play dumb it pulls a ton of shit chasing mawrats and you rip
stoic needle
also the power that shares healing between you and the dog is amazing
because every time it dies and heals itself all that healing gets transferred to you
modest dove
Yeah its so good amd them healing up from a rip counts
turbid dew
I used bonespike to pull a mob out of a pack, he runs in and agros the whole room
modest dove
5k heal a tick is big nice
stoic needle
between that and your natural leech you're basically invincible
yeah they do kinda do that sometimes
but just let it take aggro and vanish if you need to
its nbd if it dies
turbid dew
ok
stoic needle
if it overpulls, i ONLY touch the one i pulled and let it tank the extras
turbid dew
which pet do you guys like?
modest dove
Depending how you build them overpulling can be the proper strat
stoic needle
seems like the best for sin
turbid dew
cool, thanks for the info
modest dove
Yeah nal'tari and horgul are nice
stoic needle
if you get the power that halves the recharge of your beast's special ability you basically just always have 30% extra haste lol
modest dove
I got enough powers to make him a bomb that hit for 240k aoe + stun each time he died so id pull big and let him aoe taunt, get smoked and then smoke them lol
modest dove
No
turbid dew
oh cool
modest dove
Only og wings
TC is meant to be heroic torghast
While i love the pet event i wouldn't want it in TC anyway
stoic needle
i haven't tried it at all yet, just haven't had time
but i guess doing it would help me get through the venari rep faster for those sweet sweet sockets
modest dove
I did layer 1 pretty easy on my prot pally main solo but i hear the higher layers can be big fucking yikes
modest dove
Please i can only get so erect
iron orchid
Did all 8 layers with a guildie of mine
modest dove
That sounds awesome lol
iron orchid
feels great
stoic needle
how long did it take you
modest dove
2 dabs and a pan of pizza rolls
fleet whale
I thought was gonna see a green or blue log, and you linked an orange log in which you got third in the fight lol
don't be so hard on yourself
stoic needle
You wasted 1 mutilate cp
balmy condor
????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
stoic needle
Literally uninstall smh my head
fleet whale
idk the log looks fine too me
real bay
phantom fire on hero pillar
fleet whale
snd uptime is good
real bay
watch it do 80k like mine
stoic needle
Slice and dice uptime only 95% instead of 99... Yikers
fleet whale
you even have good envenom uptime
and that' prolly more to do with the boss mechanics than him not pressing snd lol
stoic needle
Sorry I'm just joking
In all seriousness though all you can really do past this point is get fed PI
fleet whale
or get lucky crit rng
balmy condor
imagine pinging me for that
fleet whale
good luck convincing your raid to use PI on a sin rogue
even if sin prolly gets the most out of it
real bay
also like you got 3 vendettas you can time them for pillars
balmy condor
he did
pull, 2, 4
like
there's actually nothing wrong
he parsed a 96
and then showed up like something was wrong
hello?
fleet whale
reminds me a little bit of this one mmo champion poster
that said if you parses 100 you cheesed, and if you parsed below 99, you were bad lol
stoic needle
Warcraftlogs was a mistake
fleet whale
nah logs weren't a mistake, they bring much more than just rankings
like fight breakdowns are very useful
they provide analytical data.. and analytics are the future
of like everything lol. From business, politics, to even sports
loud niche
so im not bad?
balmy condor
balmy condor
boo fucking hoo
main blaze
loud niche
well, apparently 100's make you like... better than everyone, and if i can say im better than peen i can shit on his desk sometime maybe
Kapp
balmy condor
peen also has 10 ilvl on you
stoic needle
I meant "warcraftlogs was a mistake" as a joke mostly. People are definitely idiots and take it too seriously
balmy condor
case in point
stoic needle
I just lament what the culture around the website has done to the game
balmy condor
loud niche
wut
modest dove
or you can be best homies with your disc priest and get that bias bro PI regardless 
modest dove
lolol
balmy condor
do you actually think that
loud niche
@outer lotus does
modest dove
my pally has been collecting dust, i feel bad, but fucking mut is back so... feelsbadbutnotreally
sudden canyon
more likely to parse high
balmy condor
idk
outer lotus
insane gamer moment right here
balmy condor
river's on some shit atm
outer lotus
ooh i remember him 
stoic needle
my pally has been collecting dust, i feel bad, but fucking mut is back so... fee...
F paladins
outer lotus
you were pretty close to getting muted last time maybe calm down river
modest dove
ive been prot pally main since day 1 of bc 😦 dropped my ud mage like el trasho
stoic needle
2 PIs = ez 97. Even when you play like trash
Don't mind me I just have a hate grudge against paladins after months of ranking in pvp in classic
modest dove
BUT to be fair, my rogue is my 2nd main, i dont even consider her an alt, she gets just as much play, and the only char i pvp on
never played sub, never will. hated that spec back in the day when everyone was lolstab meta ree, i was one of a handful playing mut in pvp
stoic needle
I just hate the bubble man
Every interaction with a paladin is just my time being wasted even if I win
modest dove
but yeah dude, i realized what everyone was talking about with rets in pvp, ran into a few in bgs and jfc
mut > combat > outlaw > that other one
rip combat
modest dove
nah, that was more bias because i just dont like sub, maybe i should've put >= for that last one
lol
i miss armor pen and fast OH 1handers
stoic needle
I miss weapon speed mattering
modest dove
but thats for another discussion another day in another channel
stoic needle
Heh yeah
low girder
it matters for sub
stoic needle
I wish there was more than one weapon speed per type lol
low girder
fair
stoic needle
I get that they wanted to simplify things but I think that small bit of customization being lost was a mistake
stoic needle
Yeah I think so
modest dove
its been many years since but wasnt there diff dagger speeds also?
stoic needle
Like okay maybe there doesn't need to be a weapon at every speed from 1.5-3.4
But at the same time why not give people the option of slower weapons for pvp
modest dove
1.8 mh 1.5 oh? that sound about right
low girder
the primary reason was so you could look at a weapon and be like "oh that's an upgrade"
without consulting anything
of course it didn't actually work out that way
stoic needle
Bleh
low girder
lol
modest dove
lol ye
stoic needle
That's an unnecessary goal imo
Part of the allure of MMOs is gearing and making weird niche builds with different substats
modest dove
i know a lot of people are still adjusting, some even hate it, but im happy for the squish
stoic needle
I don't mind the squish at all
But I did come from classic so I think it was designed to appeal to me
modest dove
my 187 mh going to soon to be 200 pvp mh is a 31.x to 36.x dps change, 5 weap dps on something that low is fucking massive
low girder
ilvl in general is huge compared to before
modest dove
yeah and main stat is so greatly weighted
stoic needle
I don't like how big of an impact weapons have considering how rare they are
modest dove
it sucked taking ilvl because my pally lost like 8-9% haste by taking ilvl lol, slowly creeping back up but damn, you really feel that
thankfully we have several outside sources to supplement like trinkets, foods, buffs (PI)
low girder
i went from a 184 outlaw weapon last night to a 220 and gained almost 400 dps
no, they're just LFR weapons
stoic needle
Aww
stoic needle
Great for alts but useless for me rofl
low girder
idk weird that they're handing out weapons that are basically already handed to you now with the WQ upgrade
modest dove
but big grats mata, that's large as fuck man
low girder
seemed stingy to me
yeah it was pretty big, outlaw spec actually playable in raid now lol
modest dove
im not on atm but if anyone is, do we have anymore WQ ilvl bumps coming from renown?
low girder
will spend the conquest on a 213 OH dagger for sub instead
or 220 if i gain my rating back
uh, there should be one in the 30s somewhere
modest dove
DO IT OSHI MUT PVP IS YAY
low girder
29 renown
low girder
that'll prolly be 197 max if i had to guess
stoic needle
Guess I gotta get in the rbg gear train lmao
modest dove
also make sense to bring it in line with r7 cov gear
marsh wharf
anyone used blindside over master poisoner in pvp and liked it?
modest dove
i occasionally swap between the two
usually go with MP
but blindside can help with some slight burst
marsh wharf
if you were running healer rogue would you prefer mp for the pressure ?
or blindside for the burst
normal spoke
Due to low CP generation (low crit) and low energy regen... I found Blindside made up for it a bit.
modest dove
yeah its a nice bump def, freebie bush plus most likely filling cp for a finisher, its def nice
and idk, prob mp if im feeling lazy, blindside if i want to focus a bit
stoic needle
Do we bother putting up SnD in pvp?
marsh wharf
yes
auto attacks do a lot of damage
but only use it for drawn out fights, not for a set up burst
stoic needle
Yeah that's what I'd been doing
Putting it up with whatever cp I have left over from the initial fight
modest dove
yeah same
you're in the middle of a rumble, the last thing im trying to do is put up SnD
marsh wharf
if it gave energy it would be a different story
but assassin got the shit end of the stick on snd
welll it gives 10%
but you know what i mean
modest dove
yeah
elfin tiger
Do i make zoldyck on feet or legs?
balmy condor
legs
broken flame
!bis
prisma monolithBOT
Whispyrs Bis list: http://tiny.cc/76r5tz
sudden canyon
so is it not worth to FoK at 3-4 targets under a certain crit%
the 1cp
fok feels bad and i feel like i hsould be mut at that point
stoic needle
Are we swapping back to assass now?
Imagine swapping off of sin
stoic needle
so is it not worth to FoK at 3-4 targets under a certain crit%
There is no crit% threshold afaik. It's 2 targets or less where you mut
terse hinge
Left for 18 months came back to sin being a mess, had a lot more success as sub and kept with it
stoic needle
Fok just sucks ass and we have to deal with it
dawn plume
im trying to decide if I should commit to sin too
iron orchid
Imma try to stream
sudden canyon
i feel like at 2 targets im better off hitting mut for more cp generation.
stoic needle
Come back to us brothers and sisters
iron orchid
French MM+ incoming
sudden canyon
oh i read ur message wrong
but still even at 3 targets FoK feels worse than mut. not sure if the dmg is the same tho
sudden canyon
only 25%
dawn plume
i loved the zoldyck leggo in legion, kinda want it again
stoic needle
I don't think you ever run either of those
Maybe if you have 2 potency you could do katar as 2nd but it's still probably worse
sudden canyon
i cant imagine it being all the bad for something like mists.
balmy condor
yeh
you need HB for katar to be good
but you also don't take HB
so katar isn't good
it's a vicious cycle
stoic needle
What about at these low gear levels to make our cp gen a bit more reliable in aoe
As a 2nd potency like I said
sudden canyon
im using MfD and the short ruptures/snd's are no fun to juggle on bosses lol.
balmy condor
then use vigor, that's fine
hidden monolith
how do you do, fellow thieves
so, I'm 209 outlaw now, and haven't touched assassin since legion. is it worth to switch to assassin, with new buffs considered? 
balmy condor
if you're outlaw it's not worth switching
hidden monolith
I REALLY hate the RNG on roll the bones in raids...
balmy condor
if you hate playing the spec, then switch
but from a damage perspective, it's not worth
hidden monolith
yeah but we're clearing Den heroic and kinda don't wanna stay behind....i'm doing like 3.5k-4.5k dps
storm perch
In terms of m+ can sin be competitive against sub?
balmy condor
yes
raw token
with zoldyc leg ?
balmy condor
yes
balmy condor
yeah but we're clearing Den heroic and kinda don't wanna stay behind....i'm doin...
not sure what that means, if you want to do damage, go outlaw
raw token
kk ty
old snow
always disc priest
old snow
check the pvp channel, posted those pics there
indigo ginkgo
why do Scoundrel have way more damage that zoldyck in Blood mallet ?
low girder
i wouldn't call it way more, but bloodmallet by default is pure single target, which is where DS wins
anything else zoldyck is on top
indigo ginkgo
thanks
fleet whale
it's also bait
low girder
eh, it's a thing you might craft for farm 'cause why not
certainly a bait to make it first though
stoic needle
I mean 50 dps is 50dps if you're min/maxing
Now that I have lvl 4 zoldyck I'm gonna upgrade MA and then craft dashing
fleet whale
deadly poison damage
marsh fjord
hey guys i'm been doign some reading on wowhead about covenants and they all seem kinda close but warcraft logs is kinda up and running with kyrian
it's my main alt
tidal gorge
I'm sad. I simmed myself with available gear and sin is a 500 dps loss from sub with a rank 4 Zold. I guess I need more haste until it's worth
balmy condor
yeh you'll see mostly fae/kyrian
marsh fjord
is kyrian best simming one?
stoic needle
WHAT are you min/maxing
Single target damage. I don't want to play any other spec so there's no reason not to
marsh fjord
what would you suggest ?
stoic needle
Venthyr is also sim bait
balmy condor
kyrian/fae
snow arch
Go with whatever theme you like best
And abilities you enjoy using
Worrying about bis covenant is pretty goofy
stoic needle
Everyone has different priorities
lyric badger
hello i just joined the discord, do many people still play assassin? I try but i cant seem to grasp sub 😦 feel like a dummy
stoic needle
lyric badger
my main focus is pvp and i like to do rated stuff, and i never see any assas rogues in arena or bgs. Then when i do try, as sub, im dead in 1 second lol
stoic needle
Well someone in the pvp channel just hit 2100 as sin
So it's viable
You probably just need to work on your pvp fundamentals tbh
lyric badger
i also have pretty garbage gear, think im 170 atm? cant remember really and when i play i usually pug
balmy condor
well that's your problem
lyric badger
i am willing to learn it, i just dont seem to understand it lol. Been playing assassin since legion and that was really fun
balmy condor
if I see a 170 rogue that's an insta one shot
dawn plume
So if I'm just doing M+ assass and sub are pretty close together a bit behind outlaw right?
balmy condor
yeh
sin can keep up with sub on cleave
or beat it
but it loses in 6+ and single target
dense cedar
Whispyr loves cleaving
stoic needle
cleave is why i get up in the morning
dawn plume
Lowest performing specs are always the most appealing to me smh, I gotta play assass
dawn plume
^ yep that's why I'm bad
long solar
cleave changed my life for the better
fleet whale
assassin has been my favorite spec since mop regardless of numbers
dense cedar
@fleet whale now that u said that they're gonna nerf it to be 20 DPS
fleet whale
i mean at that point i have no choice
that's basically removing a spec from the game
languid prairie
!stats
prisma monolithBOT
**Shadowlands: ** Haste > Versatility => Critical Strike => Mastery
loud niche
so the proc trinket for pvp procs stupid often, is something wrong with the nightly version of raidbots? or is it done correctly? im getting like 3.5 ppm
lavish isle
Hi all, want to craft zoldyck and test assassination in heroic castle. Is the icy-veins guide on point on everything, I mean is their guide the one to go with?
dawn plume
check pinned for builds
loud niche
why is my guild incapable of killing hungering?
loud niche
best attempt so far, and it's a wipe at 38% with 1 min till enrage
raven egret
ok yeah bad dam
bright turret
Yea he's kind of the first dps check sort of? First two bosses are really easy even with low DPS
loud niche
what's the needed dps avg?
nocturne hawk
people dying to mechanics at all?
loud niche
ofc
drifting cloud
yeah hungering is no joke for 3rd boss in the raid
atleast compared to what the 3rd boss would look in any other tier in the past 2 xpacs
faint harness
Wasnt Maut kinda bad for casual guilds too
drifting cloud
that was just zines guild
faint harness
drifting cloud
yeah Maut wasnt cake but Id say hungering is still slighty harder
mint cloak
how much differece is there between covenant choices? if any at all
low girder
couple % at most
faint harness
Hungering is hard when you copy wf guild strat and expect it to work for your rank 1000 guild
raven egret
wait whats the wf strat lol
loud niche
21st raider
drifting cloud
my guilds wa kinda carries on hungering (no self advertising)
raven egret
i mean if u have the attention span to do that and not being 21 raider
then u are pretty good
faint harness
It sounds good in practice but then you add laser clipping
And it can easily become chaos
raven egret
especially if ur playing melee and calling omegalul
raven egret
tf
loud niche
our RL got benched bc he was bottom heals
all raid spots are up for grabs all the time if you get outperformed by a trial in heroic clear
faint harness
Do you have 1-2 resto shamans
loud niche
ye
faint harness
Still think your guild should consider changing strat. 38% hp at 1 min left makes it sound like its not only mechanical
Maybe a mix of confusing strat and too much movement for ranged dps
Instead of just standing still in your little pre-assigned group and pumping dps
drifting cloud
its probably just losing people slowly from like the 2nd minute and they just made it that far before totally wiping
like I said I think its a relatively challenging boss being the 3rd one, like a 95% speed kill is still 5:30 kill timer
faint harness
Yea
drifting cloud
but yeah the whole fight is also a 90s long repeating phase
faint harness
We killed it in 5:09 last time pog
Melee on that fight can also ignore running out with orb
To minmax dps
And just soak your own orb
Lots of saved uptime
vast kite
Whats the best assass lego in pvp?
fleet whale
meta is still bursty so i would go MA
but if dampening becomes a thing eventually, Zoldyck could be valuable
mortal tartan
sin feels so good in fights like stone legion and sire
normal plover
@faint harness do you soak your orbs with feint when cloak is down?
fleet whale
insane dps
torpid spoke
What lego for assassin is bis for raiding?
balmy condor
zoldyck
unique plume
Did anyone try not following any meta builds and trying like high crit/mastery + master poisoner + dashing scoundrel type builds?
Any luck?
balmy condor
normal olive
unique plume
Is that a no
balmy condor
well
the question is "did anyone try"
and the answer to that is a maybe
but if the underlying question is "is it good"
the answer is a HARD no
warm estuary
novel venture
is there a macro for ambush mutilate and blindside procs
balmy condor
!bs
prisma monolithBOT
Macroing Ambush to Mutilate only works with the use of a addon.
It comes with the downside that it often requires multiple key presss.
Suggested addon to use(Gnome Sequencer):http://tiny.cc/mxb6tz
Showcase Video: #assassination message
balmy condor
novel venture
mmmh ty
strange python
At what haste does sin become usefull? Just tried it in a m+2 with my sub gear and it was horrible, but I have no haste
balmy condor
sin can be useful without any haste
balmy condor
there's no minimum, and no maximum, nor any breakpoints on stats
because that's not how stats work
iron orchid
if your team is not trash
strange python
Im 189ilvl so Im only getting into mythics, but did about 1k less dps even on bosses compared to sub
I quit the game in wotlk, so its crazy coming back and seeing what happened to assa, it was so good back then
balmy condor
it was the best rogue spec for the last 5-6 years
you came back at a pretty unlucky time
strange python
ah, lol
dense cedar
ikon
strange python
anyone member instant poison making up like 35% of your dmg
dense cedar
time to embrace outlaw
low girder
if you do that whispyr will personally get blizz to ban you
balmy condor
anyone member instant poison making up like 35% of your dmg
sin at the end of legion btw
dense cedar
Kingsbane 💕
strange python
is poison bomb the way? I had Crimson tempest
low girder
That was old poison bomb. It's not like that anymore.
Crimson Tempest is what you take in most cases in keys
With tyrannical this week though PB is also good. Both are fine
frozen jasper
sin at the end of legion btw
Oh man seeing that I wish I played Legion for longer than just the first raid of that addon
dense cedar
Legion was lit
frozen jasper
I loved Legion the first couple months man. Nighthold was what made me quit i just can‘t stand that raid lol
dense cedar
I liked Nighthold 
obsidian ruin
does anyone know for sure if socketed legendaries keep the socket after upgrading?
prisma monolithBOT
elfin tiger
!guide
unique plume
@balmy condor thanks for sharing the end of legion ability dmg split, I wonder if you have a current one and how diff abilities rate in overall DMG?
honest silo
does anyone know for sure if socketed legendaries keep the socket after upgradin...
yes, they keep sockets and enchants
obsidian ruin
@honest silo Ty<3
pastel notch
it's Mythic night boys, is sin gonna make my dick hard or am I gonna be limp?
rose condor
compared to the UH boys, or compared to other sin rogues? 😉
cinder crater
anyone got an assasination burst guide?
median mango
so katar isn't good
Are you speaking ST here or m+ too?
Haven't had enough m+ runs to see overall damage between different potency conduits
frozen jasper
The wording in the DS leggo Bonus is a little confusing. Does it only buff the crit chance while envenom is up or is the crit chance always higher ?
oblique flare
only while envenom is up
been playing with it and honestly, it doesn't do jack, feeling wise, but i only have 15% crit base, so 30% critchance whenever you get to envonem is ridiculously low on ST especially
frozen jasper
Yeah because I feel like it doesnt sound that strong so I was just being curious if the wording is just off but I guess it’s not then. But it has to be good in pure ST, at least that’s what the sims say.
oblique flare
my experience is pure pvp btw. and training dummy xd
frozen jasper
Well, thank you anyways for the insight xd
sonic wind
How is assa in PvE after buff? Trash?
rugged dragon
sonic wind
I see that on Shriekwing max Assa dps is 4100 while Law is 5800, seems like still trash
stoic needle
<@167090536602140682> thanks for sharing the end of legion ability dmg split, I ...
Do a quick sim or look at a log and you can see
stoic needle
I see that on Shriekwing max Assa dps is 4100 while Law is 5800, seems like stil...
It hasn't even been a whole week yet, most of the good players don't have maxed out sin legendaries or gear sets optimized for sin
Those logs basically mean nothing
real bay
looking at max dps is stupid
you will never hit that unless you get hit by godly rng
fed PI's
also nobody will give Sin PI's so that makes the max even lower
limber lion
They also function differently. They might have lower damage on patchwork but they don't get dicked as hard when they're hit by mechanics. Not having 99.8%+ uptime on boss will highly lower your damage but for assa it's not as punishing.
Assa has always been the go-to progression spec for mythic. You might get chosen to do some mechanics and don't get punished for it as hard as you would as sub/outlaw.
But tbh, if you're not in a hall of fame guild, just play whichever spec you want. :)
stiff garden
How do I make assassination work :( I just do no dmg wtf
signal kayak
its ramp up.
sonic wind
Are there some sim reports with high assa dmg? I have like 3400 at 210 ilvl, ofc without much of haste, but still the damage is like 190 fire mage
In practice I always do like 2.4k-2.6k
oblique flare
you open the specialization window and select either outlaw or sub
stoic needle
How do I make assassination work :( I just do no dmg wtf
Keep your bleeds up as much as you can, keep SnD up as much as you can, once you have 5 bleeds up in aoe/garotte rupture up on ST spend the rest of your cp on envenom
stoic needle
Yeah, and we still dont do any dmg compared to any other spec
That's just not true
stiff garden
I play outlaw i do a billion dmg, i play sin i do 0?
balmy condor
your anecdotal evidence does not make your statement any more true
stoic needle
You're probably not playing it correctly
Just because sin is the 'easier' 'slower' spec doesn't mean you can just jump right into it and get insta 99s and do a billion damage lol
Ceverion's out here pumping 5.2k dps on hungering destroyer with no PI
stiff garden
Do u even have proof he didnt get any buffs during that fight?
balmy condor
stoic needle
Go look at the log 
balmy condor
its literally a public log
stoic needle
stoic needle
You've gotta be trolling
stiff garden
just speculating
stoic needle
Consumables aren't enough to push sin to do decent damage from being crap. The truth is that sin just does decent damage now
balmy condor
(it's less than 50 dps btw)
stoic needle
They so cheap, why would you not?
unique plume
Out of interest, when you do an opener do you guys prioritise S&D first or Rupture? After you garrote already?
I always wondered if venomous wounds ticks are more valuable then having slice and dice running already
balmy condor
SND first has been shown to be a gain
balmy condor
shiv isn't getting tracked in casts for some reason
you have to go to damage done
and see casts from there
fleet whale
Lens of elchaver baseline passive for sin in 9.1
rare ember
!bis
prisma monolithBOT
Whispyrs Bis list: http://tiny.cc/76r5tz
hot ingot
Hows assas doing since the buff? Are they competitive at all now?
balmy condor
they can beat sub in cleave/aoe
but its still the weakest single target and loses to outlaw
if you suck at the other specs, it's worth considering
but if you're decent at the other specs, probably not worth the switch
frozen forge
single target will get better with gear
balmy condor
do you know something I don't?
frozen forge
I meant as the xpac goes on. I feel Assassin will start to shine
jagged flower
he is gonna say the S word
oblique flare
SCALING
gleaming eagle
oblique flare
higher energy reg pls
fleet whale
Sin energy regen is fine
mortal tartan
do people just not energy pool or is that not a thing
like when shiv is coming up ill wait a bit so i can get 2x mut and an envenom
stoic needle
Energy pooling really isn't a gain anymore
mortal tartan
but is it a loss?
stoic needle
@balmy condor care to comment?
balmy condor
its neutral
you might see slight gains pooling for tb
but usually isn't worth there either
and often results in overcapping
which is worse
stoic needle
Tb?
stoic needle
It was a terrible change
mortal tartan
i completely forget about it all the time
also i usually use crippling anyways so i cant even use it
balmy condor
numbing poison + shiv = soothe
stoic needle
You should be using mind numbing tbh
balmy condor
really depends on the tank
stoic needle
The damage reduction is really nice
mortal tartan
i usually run with a demon hunter
mortal tartan
so i feel crippling is useful there
balmy condor
you just have your DH jump in, nuke for like 35k dps, and then kite forever
so crippling definitely the play
stoic needle
So fucking weird
pliant apex
since no weapons in raid, and i dont m+, where to get em from
stoic needle
since no weapons in raid, and i dont m+, where to get em from
Pvp
You can upgrade an honor weapon to 197 just doing bgs, and get a 200 one with conquest
spice pebble
Or if you're really lucky, weekly vault
verbal stirrup
is sin viable in 3s now ?
verbal stirrup
oh i thought im actually in pvp, sorry
but yeah, even with the right comp i hope i dont feel like im carried
spice pebble
How competitive are we now? I feel like no good players were playing sin and now that we're buffed, there's probably few min/maxed sin rogues to compare
fleet whale
good enough
spice pebble
that's what I wanted to hear 🙂
fleet whale
our log rankings are better than what they used to be but still not great when looking at the top end
spice pebble
I just wonder if like on icy veins of the recommended min/max stats and gear is still relevant
spice pebble
like would mastery pull ahead of crit?
balmy condor
Mastery is our worst stat
spice pebble
In Legion it was good
balmy condor
That was 5 years ago my man
spice pebble
mhm
spice pebble
It's been a while, i was on a break from wow
balmy condor
Stats change every patch pretty much
spice pebble
I was upset to come back to the current state of sin
balmy condor
They could come out with a tier set that buffs the shit out of rupture
spice pebble
I made a boomkin instead on launch
balmy condor
And mastery would skyrocket
spice pebble
I don't care for sub or outlaw
pliant apex
so weapons drop from council and den ?
balmy condor
Yes
spice pebble
ok so if i craft my first leg this week i should pick haste/crit still
im like ilvl 175 so anything is prob an upgrade at this point
mortal tartan
haste vers is the way to go
spice pebble
😮
mortal tartan
i'd say sim it, but if you are only ilvl 175 i don't think that matters too much
spice pebble
yea, that's why I'm asking more for the long term
mortal tartan
yeah most people are going haste/vers then
spice pebble
thanks for the insight
thorn crater
spice pebble
Yea that's so weird... crit gives combo pts
I guess vers for your dot dmg, and consequently your legendary?
stoic needle
you can get enough crit from your other gear that it doesn't hurt you to not have it on your legendary
mortal tartan
id assume its because you need more vers to increase the % than you need crit
fleet whale
crit is also great in aoe
spice pebble
I see. so we're assuming that a soft cap crit will be enough for combo pts
balmy condor
Haste + crit/Vers
fleet whale
if you have too much of one stat btw
stoic needle
there isnt really a soft cap
balmy condor
A soft cap crit 
fleet whale
it may not be your highest anymore
balmy condor
What the
mortal tartan
we aren't even close to too much of one stat are we?
like its too early in the expac right
to be capping stats
stoic needle
yes
spice pebble
good point
balmy condor
It’s near impossible to even hit the first tier of diminishing returns atm
Like you gotta be 220+, full stacking a stat
To even scratch it
spice pebble
hmmmmm
another plus of crafting vers is I can use it during PvP
so that might be the deciding factor for now
You guys still recommend Zoldyck Insignia? or is anyone messing with other leggos
balmy condor
zoldyck yep
mortal tartan
what talents do people take for mythic?
balmy condor
mfd + CT
or vigor + CT usually fine
on tyran weeks you can also go pb if you'd like
otherwise its just standard ep/subt/alacrity
mortal tartan
aight ty