assassination

[quasi pewter]

but it now has a niche

execute:)

[primal zinc]

ok now that you all racted like 5 year old

explain me the word decent what means

[pulsar sluice]

rofl

[primal zinc]

its not perfect or best as fas as i know

[quasi pewter]

?

[primal zinc]

its decent

[quasi pewter]

sub is better

what do you mean

[stuck tartan]

ok mister pro gamer

[primal zinc]

i didnt say its better omg kids

[stuck tartan]

Nobody is saying sin fucking sucks and u should be bad for playing it

[primal zinc]

i said its decent

ffs

[quasi pewter]

as decent as sub

which it isnt

[balmy condor]

Well yeah it’s “decent”

But sub is just still better

You compared the two

And said it’s as decent as

[primal zinc]

https://wow.zamimg.com/uploads/screenshots/normal/1006860.png

decent as subs 😄

[strange python]

not true - most damage on huntsman comes from shades and sub shadow dance is perfect for them
sin will be better on fights like legion

[primal zinc]

small difference but decent

[balmy condor]

Shades are removed from logs homie

[stoic needle]

That damage is removed in logs

[balmy condor]

What are you on

[real bay]

bruh moment

[pulsar sluice]

yeah thats padded dmg

[marsh nova]

To be fair did a normal as a 207 sin, parsed an 85 and wasn't even top 5. This is pre buff. All that parse is telling you is that you're playing correct

[pulsar sluice]

no one gives a fuck about that

you can jerk yourself off in the details log for a hot moment but in the real logs your parse is poop

[primal zinc]

omg

kids

[spice spire]

We’ve also spoke this morning about why logs for sun might skew lower than the effective damage output they can provide.

[primal zinc]

blind tunnel vision on a dps meter

[real bay]

this is the way

[spice spire]

Sub is very reliant on damage windows, and any amount of misplay is going to punish it hard.

[strange python]

interesting - not sure if that's logical to completely remove that damage

[balmy condor]

It 100% is

[placid ether]

is there anyn way to know which winngs of torgghast we'll be having i our rotation as from tomorrow?

[balmy condor]

The shades are fuck all

No on gives a shit about shades

[strange python]

it's a mechanic that must be done

to avoid a wipe

[spice spire]

Yeah but the damage is bloated

[balmy condor]

Yeah so is showing up to raid

[spice spire]

It’s the same reason why the bloated damage from nyalotha was removed

[balmy condor]

It’s not meaningful damage though

It’s just “let them stew and then blow them up in 2 seconds”

[primal zinc]

if you wanna talk about nylotha

[balmy condor]

It’s not a dps check

[primal zinc]

there is a hipster channel

[balmy condor]

If you want to see the damage on shades

You can still hit the button

[strange python]

... wasn't aware that we were in a kindergarten

[spice spire]

It’s relevant to the current discussion, isn’t it? It’s just saying that like before, it’s not going to be captured on logs.

[primal zinc]

its not worth mentioning i mean after a new expansion with deminishing returned and other tunes

[balmy condor]

And rejoice in the fact that you bursted the add harder than everyone

But it totally makes sense that it’s removed

[strange python]

honestly there's no point in discussing this if your answer are going to be idiotic

[balmy condor]

Right

[stuck tartan]

[balmy condor]

Guess I’m just an idiot

[undone pasture]

egotistical idiot*

[strange python]

this is idiotic - it doesn't make you an idiot

[balmy condor]

Bruh why is THAT the thing you’re stuck on

Just admit the damage on shades is irrelevant and move on

It’s fine

[grim wolf]

[pastel notch]

two nerds arguing on the internet about who is a bigger nerd. Get a grip of yourselves lads..

I'm really excited for Sin to be the big nut execute class after patch, who is with me

[balmy condor]

That’s... simply not what’s happening but thanks for trying to help

[thorn echo]

!bis

[prisma monolith]

Whispyrs Bis list: http://tiny.cc/76r5tz

[balmy condor]

I am excited though

Might not be a good spec

But at least it’ll have some niche, even minor

[pastel notch]

Honestly think it'll be decent, for the likes of Sludge and Sire - they'll actually be useful

[primal zinc]

btw in the bis list

[mortal tartan]

should i be focusing on ilvl or bis

[tender folio]

This is just the beginning, you'll see

[primal zinc]

why not ladys inervas ring instead of plaguefalls

[balmy condor]

Ilvl for sure

[balmy condor]

Cause it’s worse

[primal zinc]

on mythic 15 and mythic raid theya re both 226

[tender folio]

We will be great again

[mortal tartan]

is pawn a reliable add on then? in the past its bugged out for me a few times

[daring pecan]

no

[stuck knoll]

Pawn is awful

[daring pecan]

don't use pawn

[balmy condor]

Stat weights in general aren’t that useful

You’d have to resim yourself a new pawn string

And then import all the time

Just a headache

[primal zinc]

ladys ring is haste>crit

[mortal tartan]

is there anything i should use or should i just sim all my sh1t

i dont use a lot of addons

[balmy condor]

Sim all your shit

[daring pecan]

a guildie of mine is actually doing that and I don't get why

[balmy condor]

Okay and?

[daring pecan]

he goes the extra step for literally no reason

[stuck knoll]

The definition of working harder and not smarter

[primal zinc]

saying that cos i have both on 226 and ladys has 2% difference with plagues

[balmy condor]

Yeah maybe for you

[primal zinc]

maybe because i dont have the hole bis gear i guess or?

[balmy condor]

Bis lists aren’t supposed to show you what items are best in each slot individually

[stuck knoll]

The bis list is a whole set of gear just cuz something is on there doesn't mean it's necessarily the best for you

[balmy condor]

It shows stat trends

[stuck knoll]

Like you don't keep something from the bis list if it's-20 ilvl

[balmy condor]

Shouldnt keep something from the bis list if it’s -5 tbh

And the weights in the list

Are far different from your character

That’s just how stats work

[primal zinc]

ye ok

i get it now

and 1 more thing

when does haste diminishing starts for sins?

[balmy condor]

If you want to see a trend, or a theoretical maximum, bis lists are great, otherwise it’s kinda whatever

[balmy condor]

Same as every other class, at 35% from rating

[primal zinc]

so above 35 - 44% we get 10% less from items?

[stoic needle]

Is it possible that with enough haste later on with gear we might get to a point like outlaw where MfD is viable for single target? I really miss it when I have to play without it lol

[balmy condor]

10% less

[primal zinc]

ye ok

[stuck knoll]

Probably not because sin plays around its energy a lot more

[balmy condor]

Bis setups actually pull equal or marginally better with deeper. Mfd single target is not a thing

[primal zinc]

mfd?

[mortal tartan]

mark for death

[stoic needle]

I'm talking several tiers down the line

[primal zinc]

😮

[balmy condor]

Several tiers down the line you’d play deeper

If this trend continues at least

Who knows what curve balls and tier set jank we’ll get

[stoic needle]

I see

[daring pecan]

MfD single target is totally a thing

trust me, I'm Whisp too

[balmy condor]

[daring pecan]

[shrewd night]

[stuck knoll]

[stuck tartan]

faster rupture lets goooo

[daring pecan]

pre pull SnD is good for outlaw, why can't it be good for us?

[stoic needle]

WHAT IS THE TRUTH

[blazing arrow]

@daring pecan hey Whispyr, now that sin is poggers, should I save my soul ash for zoldyck instead of r4 celery?

[stoic needle]

Honestly though

[daring pecan]

okay, I'll stop

that's going too far

I can't even say that as a joke

[stoic needle]

Imagine if the crit on pk scaled with the conduit level

[daring pecan]

seriously though, why doesn't Sin have a way to easily refresh one of the maintenance buffs/debuffs

[balmy condor]

@daring pecan can you recreate a sim for sludgefist pillars on the same timer, and then lust pillar 4 with 30% on the boss. Change the apl for exsang to cast on every pillar, and then come back and tell me if it makes exsang viable? Thanks whispyr

[daring pecan]

ummmm

[stoic needle]

MFD works great but vigor means you don't get to use it much

[daring pecan]

[stoic needle]

Well vigor and ds I guess

[daring pecan]

your words are indeed words, other Whispyr

[stuck tartan]

Mad words

[balmy condor]

Rap god

[stuck tartan]

vigor sin baseline lets go boys

[daring pecan]

Sin should get a lot of things baseline

maybe one day...

[stoic needle]

MFD baseline

We are Assassination after all

[daring pecan]

yeah but making something that's a talent for one spec baseline for another would be super weird

... wait...

hmmm

[stuck tartan]

so u mean, like many things

[daring pecan]

yeeeeeah, never seeing that happen

[tame sigil]

I would honestly be happy if S&D was baseline for Assa, way too much maintenance and slow energy regen for Assa gets boring and tedious 😦

[stoic needle]

I would like to see SnD have a different effect for each spec

Tailored to the spec

[stuck tartan]

hey whispyr make a sim with mfd as baseline and vigor talented

[tame sigil]

Assa always feels great at the end of an expansion when we have lots of Haste

[stuck tartan]

[stuck tartan]

doesnt it already

[stoic needle]

One that fits the spec

[stuck tartan]

or am i dreaming

[stoic needle]

Ours is just extra energy regen

[stuck tartan]

ah I see

[tame sigil]

SnD triggers Adrenaline Rush as Outlaw with the Celerity legendary

[stoic needle]

I think that might be on all the specs tho I'm not sure

[daring pecan]

no

[balmy condor]

The longer I look, the more it just looks like a bowling alley to me

[daring pecan]

only for outlaw

that's because you know way too well what one looks like

[tame sigil]

Honestly I was happy to see SnD disappear in Legion I dunno why it came back

[daring pecan]

because muh maintenance buffs

[tame sigil]

Tedium

[balmy condor]

I mean I hope I do

[daring pecan]

it's just the fucking bladestorm icon

[stuck tartan]

good thing u two have different icons

[daring pecan]

I'm sadly at work

[stuck tartan]

p-please dont change it

[daring pecan]

else I'd be changing this asap

[balmy condor]

And one of us has a green name

[daring pecan]

yeah, the fake one

[balmy condor]

[stuck tartan]

but green sucks

[daring pecan]

exactly

[mint peak]

"blizzard stop pruning class abilities"
ok lets give them back the 1 thing they dont want, and also a less functional version of what they had in wotlk assassination

[stuck tartan]

snd isnt that bad

[daring pecan]

snd wasn't bad when you could just refresh it with envenom

[velvet ridge]

i hoenstly have no idea how this sepsis power works sometimes... essentially 1 shot the last boss on tc 18

[daring pecan]

what was the last boss?

ah, boubling soulmass

did you have shadowclad armaments as anima power?

the one that makes CP generators do AoE damage?

[stuck tartan]

sepsis has an anime power that makes it aoe

[stuck tartan]

anima*

oops

[velvet ridge]

yeah the 15% one, but that does damage to others correct? there was only 1 other blob out at the time

[quasi ledge]

The blob "counts" as 3 targets, even before it's split. So after 10 seconds it explodes and hits the other 2, and i assume they share HP

[velvet ridge]

i did have a couple of the shadowclad arms

[mint peak]

@daring pecan thats what i mean. 12 years ago devs were like yeah this rotation would suck if you had to keep putting up SnD like combat so we will make it refresh with envenom. And now we're back to a point where that apparently no longer applies despite actually having more things to put up

[daring pecan]

with shadowclad arms it procs back to the original target

[velvet ridge]

is thats what causing mobs to be 1 shor?

[quasi ledge]

Yes

[strange python]

theres another that makes it spread too, inc in damage for each jump

[quasi ledge]

Or them spread Sepsis is exploding from the other 2, onto the main boss

[daring pecan]

yeah but that one isn't explosive inflamation

[strange python]

true

[stuck tartan]

one explodes, the other spreads

[quasi ledge]

Combination of both i'm fairly certain

[daring pecan]

I mean, I tested it with just shadowclad armaments and explosive inflammation

[stuck tartan]

together they deal fuck ton of damage on aoe

[quasi ledge]

Shadowclad Armaments does fuck all now, was massively bugged during beta

[daring pecan]

you basically one-shot every elite pack as well if you have two or three shadowclad armamaents

[velvet ridge]

so 15% of the main boss hp, hits the other mob, then if you have 5 combo points or w.e, thats only like 15% damage back

[quasi ledge]

Never had it do more than a few % of my damage

[daring pecan]

unless you have multiple

and pretty sure it's buggy af

[balmy condor]

I was so confused why someone pinged whispyr and it didn’t highlight the message

[velvet ridge]

also, the chains increases damage, i had 3 of them

chains would increases that damage too yeah?

[stuck tartan]

i think chains doesnt work on sepsis?

[daring pecan]

Why would you be confused? You're just some dumb emoji

[stuck tartan]

might be wrong

[daring pecan]

it shold increase it

[quasi ledge]

Grey area whether or not Sepsis is classed as a generator or not

[daring pecan]

it's a generator

[balmy condor]

Pretty sure chains works on sepsis

Sepsis is a generator, and considered as such by most things

[daring pecan]

it also works with garrote so I don't see why not with sepsis

[velvet ridge]

yeah its a generator, but not for broadsides in outlaw... unluck

[stuck tartan]

idk, I remember testing it and not removing the buff

[balmy condor]

Jank

Sepsis just not allowed to do damage

Feels rogue covenant man

[daring pecan]

feels rogue covenants

[stuck tartan]

https://www.wowhead.com/spell=328305/sepsis#modified-by I see silent footpads on there but not chains

[velvet ridge]

i see broadsides on there

[magic vine]

chains work on sepsis until they all fucking disappear on you

[velvet ridge]

but im like 95% sure it doesnt give extra cp

[balmy condor]

Ain’t that a hoot

[daring pecan]

[stuck tartan]

[candid token]

Did the latest buff make a difference?

Is Ass alive again?

[stoic needle]

About a 6.5% difference

[spice spire]

[stoic needle]

Sin never died

[candid token]

Ah woops didnt see the new pin

my bad

[spice spire]

No worries

Just easier to respond there

[grim canopy]

6.5% seems smalll

[balmy condor]

Does 300-400dps seem small?

[rose narwhal]

!oh

[prisma monolith]

Mutilate requires a dagger in both hands, this makes using a non dagger weapons undesirable.

[real bay]

very smol

[stuck tartan]

i want 3000-4000 dps more

[rustic thunder]

!bis

[prisma monolith]

Whispyrs Bis list: http://tiny.cc/76r5tz

[mortal tartan]

is dashing scoundrel even worth it

for single target

or should i just always go zoldyck

[balmy condor]

Always zold

[daring pecan]

why no 65% dmg increase!

[stoic needle]

#MakeEnvenomAPoison2021

[balmy condor]

For what

[stuck tartan]

Zoldyck

[stoic needle]

So it works with zoldyck

[stuck tartan]

a poison as in works with zoldyck

not a dot

[stoic needle]

Yes

[balmy condor]

Aha

[stoic needle]

Though that does give me a kind of cool idea of an infinitely stacking poison that increases in dmg the more cp you spend on it

Like if envenom left a dot for some % of it's damage and each new application refreshed and added on the new damage

[stuck tartan]

like the pvp talent

[hollow zephyr]

Will my energy regain get better with gear I’m currently 170 and the energy regain seem horrible compared to when I played it in BFA

[balmy condor]

Every day we stray further to agonizing poison

[stoic needle]

Oh is that what that is? Lmao

[stuck tartan]

Bring it back cowards

[stoic needle]

I didn't play that when it was ingame

[stuck tartan]

there's a pvp talent that makes envenom put a dot

that refreshes with movement

or something like that

[balmy condor]

Kinda, yeh. When did you play it in bfa

[hollow zephyr]

Yeah played it in the last patch in bfa ands it just seemed faster

[stoic needle]

Kinda similar to that but instead of with refreshing movement you just keep doing the finisher

A crumb of priority damage

[stuck tartan]

tbh i like that idea but because

with sub having rupture

[balmy condor]

Yeah that’s never coming back

Good riddance

[stuck tartan]

imagine if they bring back that lul

[stoic needle]

so i looked up agonizing poison

seems cool but not quite what i'm thinking of

you could make it a rupture add-on even

if you keep dropping 5cp ruptures into something the dot damage increases

[daring pecan]

add-ons in our add-ons

we're going deep

[stoic needle]

we're in the espresso fueled sin buff spitballing zone

[hollow zephyr]

So what are sin like in mythic + is the dps terrible?

[balmy condor]

It’s not bad

[grim canopy]

tomarrow wil it be good?

instead of not bad

[balmy condor]

Will be okay instead of awful

[fading wigeon]

Lol it's amazing the questions you answer so patiently lol

I'm dying

[grim canopy]

;lol

[indigo epoch]

I feel like assasination plays slower on spreading garrote and ruptures than it did in bfa, and snd just makes it feel clumsy imo.

[balmy condor]

I balance it out with an occasional going off on someone with a stupid opinion

[indigo epoch]

Am I the only one?

[balmy condor]

Are you comparing to 8.3?

[empty cradle]

i miss shrouded suff

[indigo epoch]

Maybe? Even early though it felt better, not great but.

[balmy condor]

It’s definitely faster than it even was in eternal palace

[plain thistle]

who would thought that losing 90% haste baseline would suck

[spice spire]

I’m currently at 21% haste (high for ilvl) and it feels appropriate on pace. Just numbers suck lol

[mint peak]

isnt shrouded suff just baked into subterfuge now without the ability to double/triple up

[daring pecan]

Whispyr's coping by becoming someone else

[balmy condor]

? No

[plain thistle]

SS was 2 extra cp and extra damage

[mint peak]

oh wait subterfuge always did the extra damage too

[plain thistle]

subterfuge was there before that

[balmy condor]

Subterfuge was never changed

[plain thistle]

but they worked together really nice 🙂

[mint peak]

yeah it did feel better with extra cps. was practicing it on a dummy and the 1cp garrotes kinda felt bad.

[alpine garden]

!stats

[prisma monolith]

**Shadowlands: ** Haste > Versatility => Critical Strike => Mastery

[indigo epoch]

Maybe I just took ss for granted. Would love to play assasination again if it were decent in m+ for a pogger like me.

[bronze kelp]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination WA's:
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)

[balmy condor]

It’s cleave/aoe is already better than sub

[indigo epoch]

I've been playing outlaw for m+. I dont raid atm.

Point taken though

[balmy condor]

Then outlaw it is

[indigo epoch]

I'm just trash, I played it a few runs and it didnt feel right to me. Played assasination for the 3 previous xpacs. Would like to go back to it.

Outlaw doesnt feel like a rogue, it's like half pirate, half fury warrior

[uncut schooner]

Whispyr not green? 😦

[stuck tartan]

he's green

[uncut schooner]

No he's not, look.

He's blue.

[balmy condor]

Whispyr is blue

[stuck tartan]

you're just lookin at the wrong whispyr

[uncut schooner]

No I'm not, it says it right there.

"Whispyr"

[daring pecan]

Whisypr's blue

there's only ever been one Whispyr

[stuck tartan]

ok alter whispyr

[visual token]

Heck is goin on

[uncut schooner]

Who is this Dumb Emoji.

Never seen them before.

[balmy condor]

True

[stuck tartan]

True, true

Just an impostor I think, kick him out

[daring pecan]

Some nerd who TCs and shit

comes in here and tells us how to play optimally when we could instead play by feel

[uncut schooner]

Cool new avatar btw whisp.

[stuck tartan]

But mom, I just want to smash buttoooons

[daring pecan]

thanks

I made it myself

[uncut schooner]

Weird how Dumb Emoji is copying your old one.

Must be a wannabe.

[daring pecan]

I'm used it, it comes with the fame

[uncut schooner]

Normally I'd ask you to review my logs but.

I'm benched so, no logs to give.

[daring pecan]

it's the sin-life

[balmy condor]

I only have 2 more sub logs to review

And then we’re FREEEEEEE

[daring pecan]

alright, I want everyone in here

to collect their logs and send them to this Dumb Emoji person

no freedom allowed while I'm still not on vacation

[stuck tartan]

Only 2? Oh god poor thing let me get you some more

[uncut schooner]

Normally I'd pog that tbh but uhh.. the new pog is weirdchamp and original pogchamp is not permitted so.

[daring pecan]

just poggers

[balmy condor]

I used to do them on stream, but then DMCA cut the vod audio constantly

[daring pecan]

bruh, fuck that shit

[balmy condor]

Now I use a Google doc template

Works too I guess

[fading wigeon]

Hey what's your stream?

[daring pecan]

twitch.tv/seliathan

[balmy condor]

Should be linked to my profile

[daring pecan]

[fading wigeon]

Lol

[balmy condor]

Nah seli is a much much MUCH better rogue than me

[uncut schooner]

You still can Whisp.

But uhh...

[fading wigeon]

Found it

Lol

[uncut schooner]

Yeah...

[daring pecan]

hey, I'm just trying to make you look good

[balmy condor]

I’m a fucking bookworm

That’s about it

[balmy condor]

[daring pecan]

LMFAO that bar

dmca really do be hittin

[balmy condor]

That’s actually not even that bad

I’ve had vods that are over half red

[daring pecan]

tfw what seems like 25% red is "not even that bad"

twitch pls

[balmy condor]

Worst part is, I play music through YouTube, which is channels reposting songs from artists

And those don’t get taken down

But then I play the song, and it’s dmca’d

It’s a weird fucking system

But also this isn’t the channel for it xD

[daring pecan]

trying to wrap your head around it as an average consumer of music is too much

true

back to sending Whispyr some logs

wait, that's me

[stuck tartan]

well, u heard him boys

[daring pecan]

nonono

[balmy condor]

I’ve done 5 already

[stuck tartan]

Too late!

[balmy condor]

I’m not strong enough

[daring pecan]

[uncut schooner]

Wait hold up

W-what is this?

[stuck tartan]

paladins crying

nothing new

[daring pecan]

That looks like a non-rogue server to me

[stuck tartan]

WAIT U HAVE IT

[daring pecan]

who?

[mortal tartan]

whats sin stat prio

for raid

[empty cradle]

haste is king

[mortal tartan]

ik what after haste though

[stuck tartan]

crit and versa

[spice spire]

Haste > verse = crit > mastery

[grim canopy]

dont u want 45% crit

[daring pecan]

oh no

not this again

just in case that was a serious statement: there are no stat breakpoints to reach

[weary marten]

hey guys opinion on how will be assa after +8% ?

[daring pecan]

[rustic thunder]

[weary marten]

thanks !

what does "This culminates to 13%" mean

[stuck tartan]

We got another buff earlier

5%

[weary marten]

oooooooooh ok

[rustic thunder]

13,14% to be exact

which puts assassination in the middle of the pack presumably

[weary marten]

thanks i prefer precision 😄

did you guys playing assa play with zoldyck legendary though ?

[spice spire]

I’d say lower end to

[rustic thunder]

pity assa feels kinda clunky to play when you are geared for sub

and have like 500 crit and 350 haste

[spice spire]

And yes, zoldyck is the play

[main blaze]

Yeah ksznik, I felt that too

[spice spire]

Imagine not having 769 haste

[rustic thunder]

i'd craft the zoldyck leggo to test the spec but it's such a commitment right now, regearing and throwing like 2k soul ash away for this

meh

[vital sorrel]

Okay so I read the pins & it said Kyrian is top but how just far ahead is it of Night Fae / ,Venthyr?

[rustic thunder]

not very much

[spice spire]

Night fae actually pulled ahead

[main blaze]

Is it dashing scoundrel simming best for Assn? or is there other info that im missing?

[spice spire]

3% is the difference from top to bottom

[spice spire]

That’s pure ST only, Zoldyck’s is best all around

[main blaze]

fair, thats true

similar to Sub and its legendary choices

[rustic thunder]

zoldyck's power is that it essentially gives you an execute

which is probably super useful for fights like denathrius or sludgefist

[hushed maple]

Hello people of my favourite class: I am currently playing a Fire Mage, since I knew that Outcrap will be "meta" over the other specs. What I am wondering: How is Assa looking with that buffs? Do we have Sims already?

[stoic needle]

That's not a bad thing, you need crit for aoe cp generation

[vital sorrel]

Check pins

[rustic thunder]

[hushed maple]

oh my bad

yikes feeling like a pleb now

[rustic thunder]

#assassination message

[stoic needle]

Not gonna lie, if you think sin is too slow you're not bleeding things enough or your expectations are too high

[vital sorrel]

Sin is a comfy speed imo

[rustic thunder]

probably my expectations are too high tbh

[main blaze]

Going from Sub -> Assn you are definitely going to feel the speed difference

but Assn is like cruise control mode spec

[rustic thunder]

i mained assassination in BFA so i don't really know why am i complaining lmao

[vestal wren]

outlaw is atm very convincing

[hushed maple]

fufu Outlaw :C

[rustic thunder]

i wonder how will things scale once we get the second legendary

[spice spire]

If*

[hushed maple]

Outlaw is the reason I left Rogue be Rogue and became a Mage

[rustic thunder]

i think sub will pull ahead in ST with akaari's

[hollow schooner]

troll the bones

[vestal wren]

hard to predict, keep in mind that we might see other tuning changes, tier sets and maybe new systems at that point

[rustic thunder]

and maybe some love for rogues in general

[vestal wren]

subtlety and outlaw both are about equal on pure st

[rustic thunder]

because we aren't in the best spot right now in general

[vital sorrel]

I havent played sin since bfa, how much did slice & dice returning impact us?

[rustic thunder]

aside from outlaw being very strong in m+

[vestal wren]

wcl filters out the logs that use the kyrian bug that would potentially show outlaw closer or ahead

[hollow schooner]

kyrian bug?

[vital sorrel]

Yeah but with outlaw you have to play around forced randumb aka roll the bones

[quasi pewter]

is the find weakness bug not fixed?

[vestal wren]

i don't think so

[rustic thunder]

it's playable only thanks to the RTB conduit

[quasi pewter]

holy shit

[vestal wren]

but feel free to try it

[rustic thunder]

what FW bug?

[vestal wren]

i am not kyrian so i can't test

[quasi pewter]

im not kyrian

[vital sorrel]

Im out of the loop, what does the conduit do?

[vestal wren]

er applies fw out of stealth

[stuck tartan]

kyrian ability applies fw out of stealth, on every spec

[vestal wren]

on outlaw/assassination

[rustic thunder]

it gives you a chance to grant you a RTB buff you don't already have with every ambush and dispatch (or whatever this outlaw eviscerate name is)

[hollow schooner]

oh my

[rustic thunder]

lmao what

[vital sorrel]

Yeah, I gave up on Destro getting buffed so ima reroll rogue

Used to rogue back cata and before

[hollow schooner]

I'm kyrian so I guess I'll test this FW bug later lol.

[fading wigeon]

i can confirm the bug is still live

[molten trellis]

Currently playing outlaw, starting mythic progression, thinking about going assassination in some fights after the buffs

Does't seems to be hard to multispec, right? Considering that I have 433 haste and mastery is already my lowest stat

[spice spire]

The swap from outlaw > sin is easier because stats are very similar. Instead of vers > haste, you prio haste > vers. Rest are fine. Still think outlaw is far and away the best of the bunch

[molten trellis]

Yeah, right now haste is already simming ahead of versa for me, barely, like 1.10 to 1.07, so I have been trying to stack more haste anyway

Good to hear, it will be a nice change of pace at least

[spice spire]

Obviously you’ll need double daggers and that kind of sucks, but main gear is a fair 1:1

[primal zinc]

hey guys

quick question

we are progressing on huntsman mythic

does evasion cheese the 3 arrows?

or we die?

[balmy condor]

You can’t evasion the hit

Can only cloak the dot

[primal zinc]

nice name btw whispyr

so i cant even cloak 3 arrows?

[balmy condor]

Yeah @daring pecan

[balmy condor]

You can cloak the dot, can’t immune the initial hit

[primal zinc]

:/ ok

ty

[balmy condor]

Np

[daring pecan]

Cloaking the dot is already enough though

evasion doesn't work on aoe attacks though, something to keep in mind

[balmy condor]

I mean

Not really true

[daring pecan]

elaborate

[balmy condor]

Could cloak the charge in kings rest on council fight

That seems pretty aoe

I mean evasion

[hollow schooner]

well that

is still directional right? like the charge of the first bosi n Sanguine Depths. You can also evade his charge.

[daring pecan]

inconsistency in mechanics

the blizzard way

[balmy condor]

Yeh I’m just saying that physical attacks can be evaded sometimes

Even aoe

It’s not as easy as “this isn’t a melee hit, can’t evasion”

[daring pecan]

that is...v ery annoying

[hollow schooner]

yeah, we need ice block ; )

frozen rogues

[mint peak]

pretty sure you can evasion the HoA thrash aoe for some reason because i dodged every one of them the other night

rogue is pretty good on huntsman still though because you can get a bop to soak all three and then cloak the debuff which is pretty valuable if you dont have a ton of immunities

[wide bolt]

I know you can evasion the aoe channeled knockback the tirna scithe trash does

[spice spire]

That being said, evasion doesn’t work on the sludgefist aoe, correct?

[balmy condor]

correct

[spice spire]

Damn.

[vocal lion]

its maldraxxus viable on assasin?

[balmy condor]

all covenants are within 3%

[vocal lion]

ty

[grim canopy]

but can Sin afford 3% less

thats the question

[native turtle]

my research has told me assassination is still a meme spec

[balmy condor]

aha

and what research is that

[native turtle]

Trade chat

[balmy condor]

a trustworthy and reputable source

[native turtle]

Indeed

[spice spire]

Thank you for sharing this revolutionary information

[native turtle]

Don't thank me, thank trade chat!

[mortal tartan]

what armor piece do i use for zold

[balmy condor]

legs

[mortal tartan]

why are legs preffered

im curious

[balmy condor]

cause 9 extra ilvl on legs is slightly better than 9 extra ilvl on boots

[spice spire]

Higher stat cap.

You get more stats in that piece than in boots

[royal lantern]

big armor pieces give more stats

aka chest legs and head

[mortal tartan]

what about like rings and stuff tho

i heard somebody say it was bad

[tame slate]

You can't use anything else for Zoldyck

Legs or boots are your choice

[mortal tartan]

ik i mean other legendarys

[native turtle]

chest helm and legs have a higher "stat total" compared to other pieces. So having a perfectly itemized high ilevel in those slots

is slightly better than other slots

[tame slate]

As for other legendaries I believe that Whispyr did alot of simming to make a priority list

!bis

[prisma monolith]

Whispyrs Bis list: http://tiny.cc/76r5tz

[balmy condor]

things like MA on ring is because of the stat optimizations from putting it in that slot

basically all legendary slot choice boil down to either:

1. more stats more good
2. there's no good choice in off-piece
3. there's a 233 ilvl item in that slot available

all together, the choice is really not that amazing

you're getting less than 1% difference regardless of what you craft on in any situation

and that's with BiS lists and stuff

if you have 220 legs

and 200 boots

[tame slate]

Player skill will make more of a difference

[balmy condor]

then obviously zold on boots is the better choice

well we're assuming the player skill doesn't change in this case

so that's irrelevant

[tame slate]

Yes, I agree. In the specific case of MA you could argue that its effect is more difficult to take advantage of than other legos

Like Zoldyck is just free execute, no real change needed on the player

[mortal tartan]

alright thanks for the info just was curious if it made a big difference or not

[balmy condor]

np

[uncut schooner]

woah

whispyr got a green name again, nice!

[daring pecan]

Whispyr deserves the green name

can't believe someone took his green earlier

[uncut schooner]

yo serchiot why u using whisp's avatar?

bit cringe ngl

[daring pecan]

sorry man, I thought it looked kinda cool

[hoary copper]

Whispyr is a he?! 😂

[versed mica]

women don't use anime pfp lmao

you that shocked?

[mortal tartan]

yeah was about to say

[balmy condor]

hey man you don't know me

buy my bathwater

[mortal tartan]

is that your waifu

[hoary copper]

Whispyr is really Toph. Also lost from OT channel obviously

Vanish

[uncut schooner]

whisp has a deep masculine voice

obv. alpha male

[balmy condor]

yeah just don't look up any clips

[fading wigeon]

LOl again, I am dying

[stoic needle]

edited my plater profiles to make expiring dots on nameplates glow with the action button glow... it's so much easier to multi dot now

[balmy condor]

yup

first thing I did with mine

lol

[stoic needle]

I didn't know it was possible to edit plater that much in depth or i would've done it a long time ago

the little cooldown swipe is nowhere near enough lol

[strange python]

!guide

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
RH: https://www.ravenholdt.net/guides/assassination-rogue-guide-shadowlands-raid-dps/
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide

[jolly quiver]

!bis

[prisma monolith]

Whispyrs Bis list: http://tiny.cc/76r5tz

[spice spire]

How much for it papi? 😩

[balmy condor]

[fading wigeon]

Woah how do I do that? Is there a tutorial?

[balmy condor]

https://wago.io/t6bI_B9wi can import my profile and rip the logic from there, or just edit it to make it look how you want

[strange python]

do we use the stealth thing from sepsis on anything since we cant use it with garrote and ambush bad?

[stoic needle]

cheap shot in m+

otherwise ignore

[strange python]

ok, ty

[fleet whale]

the garrote from sepsis does silence

so something you should keep in mind

[strange python]

oooh, synergy with iron wire?

[fleet whale]

i think it procs iron wire too yeah

[balmy condor]

Doesn’t empower the damage however

So it’s only got very very niche uses in m+

[outer lodge]

Anyone done the 8 layers of Twisting Corridors as Assa? How did it feel?

[balmy condor]

Was okay until I hit a boss that goes through evasion

And only had 32k hp

If I had better powers would’ve been fine

[dense cedar]

is using ma talent still the go on pure st?

[balmy condor]

arguably, yes

difference between subt/ma is super small

almost margin

[dense cedar]

mut opener with ma talent tho?

[kind veldt]

8% buff gonna make spec competitive?

[median aurora]

[balmy condor]

yeh, mut snd mut rup or mut snd mut gar rup

[dense cedar]

kk

so the cool opener

[balmy condor]

yes, very fun and cool

[dense cedar]

no 100% anymore tho 😢

[fading wigeon]

thanks so much!!!

[fading wigeon]

sorry to bug you about this, but its giving me a compression error

[eternal totem]

i had no idea you could do that! blown my mind, gonna swap to plater!

[pine aurora]

best slot for dashing scoundrel?

[balmy condor]

feet, but you should really consider zoldyck

[fallow otter]

What kinda sim numbers are kicking around

From changes

Im assuming some people are getting close to 5.5k?

[plain thistle]

if I get 235 legendary and a 226 main hand I'm at 5.6 I think

and almost 6k as outlaw

closer to 5.9k actually

[fallow otter]

Interesting thanks

My rogue is only my alt now coz we need monk so it's only like 211ilvl with 203dagg

So couldn't really do a good test without getting messy on phone

[barren forge]

cant wait till reset, to be red again... finally

[dense cedar]

u could already be red tho

[fleet whale]

he wants to be truly red

I'm excited for tomorrow though

[barren forge]

yes, i could also drive with my bike while its raining. would feels the same

[wind canopy]

If sin sux in tomorrow’s heroic I’m gonna drop sub and become a pirate

[dense cedar]

I can't even play sin 2morrow

1 dagger lyfe

[wind canopy]

[severe harness]

noob question here, is sin too dependant on having two good daggers or just one works?

[balmy condor]

!oh

[prisma monolith]

Mutilate requires a dagger in both hands, this makes using a non dagger weapons undesirable.

[barren forge]

equip a dagger in mh as outlaw. "requires melee 1h weapon" 😂 👍 best joke ever

[vast patio]

I hope sin is good, if for nothing else that I need at least one "I'm bored of outlaw" spec to remain sane.

[stoic aspen]

Spoiler: it won't be

[vast patio]

I know.

[balmy condor]

:P

[vast patio]

but that's why sub exists.

to make the assassins cry.

[balmy condor]

would help if sub were good

[stoic aspen]

if they bring back shrouded suff, I'll play sin regardless though

[faint harness]

Sin and sub fight a common enemy

[vast patio]

incompetent design teams?

[balmy condor]

outlaw.

[faint harness]

Outlaw gamers

[vast patio]

oh

that too.

I tolerate outlaw, but I hate playing it as like, the only spec. I need variety.

[stoic aspen]

every Rogue I talk to and in my guild/friends list all dislike outlaw but play it regardless

we all hate ourselves equally

[vast patio]

It's less about disliking it and more like

i want to play sub god dammit.

[faint harness]

Nothing stops you from playing sin or sub instead of outlaw

[vast patio]

Ah, but that's where you're wrong

because haste/vers gear keeps falling on me and I can't get it to stop

[faint harness]

Isn’t haste vers kinda bis for sin too

[vast patio]

Isn't that just because sin is so abjectly shit that vers is the only somewhat usable stat?

[faint harness]

Idk

Also haste isn’t bad for sub either

[vast patio]

If I get a few more crit/vers pieces I can switch.

[echo cargo]

lmao

[vast patio]

Make rank 4 finality tomorrow, make a day out of it

[faint harness]

Yea cus barely anyone plays sin atm

[vast patio]

here's the harsh reality

blizzard loves mages

and hates us

[faint harness]

Lol

I think they just love mages really

It’s the original rpg class, a wizard, a mage

[vast patio]

I like how mages play with the new covenant toys, though I do think mages, from a class design perspective, got screwed over by legion just as much as we did.

But nobody cares because "they do good numbers, so there's totally not a problem."

[tough trail]

How can you guys know for sure that sin still will be bad?

[vast patio]

Math, pessimism and a sprinkle of autism.

[grim canopy]

i mean mage has a spell named blizzard

so ya

[faint harness]

Don’t think it’s bad

Sin will have its execute niche

[vast patio]

They nerfed blizzard in bfa though

nothing is safe

[tough trail]

Hahah allright, im still being optimistic That it will be perform

[vast patio]

Turns out all that talk about frost mage's "CLASS IDENTITY!" where they wrote an entire page about how they do control and slows good was inconvenient to keep going with.

[stoic aspen]

mage brings way too much utility for the amount of damage they do

but it's okay because I can soothe every 15 seconds in melee range

[vast patio]

i mean

I'd argue warlocks are like, the absolute best in the utility department.

[stoic aspen]

I won't complain, rogues have been obscene all of BFA so I'm not surprised they're in their current state

it's fine

everything's fine

[vast patio]

I'd like a return to MoP rogue.

Why is garrote sin exclusive

why can't sin use gouge

ect

[grim canopy]

they heard u and gave us all SND

instead of that stuff

[fleet whale]

they wanted each of the three rogue specs to bring something different

I don't think they did it the right way, but there was a very strong argument of MoP rogue specs all having a samey feeling

[polar apex]

heya humans new Sin baban here - switched from feral and really enjoying sin, would the spec be better if envenom buff worked like Devouring plague or would it ruin the pooling playstyle?

[plush oasis]

Am I the only one who liked sin in legion?

Especially the part where I could viably spec either exsang or ap.

[balmy condor]

so.... envenom with a dot instead of a poison application chance?

[ember rover]

From the very limited play I had today, Sin is fine in terms of playstyle, at least in my eyes

[balmy condor]

nah, a lot of people enjoyed it. AP is definitely a dark time, but the rest of legion was good

[ember rover]

It's very, VERY bad in terms of numbers

[plush oasis]

I enjoyed ap and I'll fight about it.

[ember rover]

Here's this add you need to swap and focus and have it die in under 10s

How sad are you that AP exists?

[polar apex]

Ah sorry, I mean it just adds the duration onto itself

[plush oasis]

Well that's when you shoulda specced xsang my friend.

[balmy condor]

I mean, I guess, sure

[ember rover]

Right, so spec suboptimally because your spec is balanced around AP, just so that you can do prio dmg

[balmy condor]

doesn't seem like much different than now

its just instead of more poison damage, you get X dot, and then you cast and it keeps going

like some weird cut to the chase thing

would depend on the numbers

I don't think it would ruin anything though

[polar apex]

No no maintaining the buff but each cast extends the duration by the full duration cast

[balmy condor]

yeah that's pretty much cut to the chase

[polar apex]

So like if you cast envenom, multilate envenom you get 11-12 seconds of envenom rather than 6-7

Ahhh okay

[ember rover]

Real question though, I have rank 4 Celerity, should I go all in and get Rank 4 Dashing Scoundrel? 😄

I`ll wait to see what the americas tell us

[balmy condor]

dashing scoundrel

[plush oasis]

Zoldyck is the better-rounded one.

[ember rover]

Is assa not good or ?

Sorry, I only read pins, it says Dashing Scoundrel 😄

I have 0% clue about assa atm

[plush oasis]

That's for pure single-target.

[balmy condor]

if you're going dashing, you're going for sustain single target and nothing else, which is basically just worse sub

the reason to play sin atm is execute damage

zoldyck is fairly close single target

and stomps aoe

[polar apex]

Or fun!

[balmy condor]

so

[granite copper]

could this be the come back of sin rogue?>

[balmy condor]

not sure if I'd call it a come back

but you can play it if you want to

[granite copper]

is the zoldyck leg really a shitty hunterxhunter reference?

blizz...come on

[balmy condor]

yes, just like it was 6 years ago in legion

[granite copper]

god....

[stoic aspen]

why's it gotta be shitty?

why can't it just be a hxh reference?

[polar apex]

Hunter X Hunter is amazing how dare u

[fleet whale]

Legion assassin was my favorite version of assassin

especially during antorus

[ember rover]

Does nightfae become BiS at 31 renown?

[granite copper]

i like hunter x hunter dont get it twisted, its just.... its like making a dwarf warrior and naming them gimly...not super creative. expecially from the "small indie fantasy game" company known as Blizzarrd

[fleet whale]

it's just a random leggo

some dev is prolly a fan of Hunter X Hunter and wanted to make a leggo referencing it

[stoic aspen]

a reference is a reference, hxh isn't that super well referenced in things

[balmy condor]

you're right, it should've been named "the execute legendary"

[stoic aspen]

not like they're making a hunter legendary called legalos

[polar apex]

Idk wow has always been a hodgepodge of cultural references

[fleet whale]

and yeah wow is full of references, Zoldyck is prolly one of the least intrusive of all of them too

considering i doubt many players even know what Hunter X Hunter is

[granite copper]

all im asking is for blizzard to creeate their own intellectual property so it atleast feels like they are trying.

[fleet whale]

?

[granite copper]

LET ME DIE ON THIS HILL

[balmy condor]

I mean

sure

[granite copper]

🙂

[balmy condor]

but you chose one hell of a hill there

[granite copper]

its my hill

i like it

i can see a lot from up here

[plush oasis]

Imagine how many achievements would have to be renamed.

[fleet whale]

yeah i don't think you understand what intellectual property fully is

[balmy condor]

all of them

[ember rover]

There's reference in literally everything that exists in the common medium

Everything is a reference of something

[granite copper]

idk, i guess im a cynical fuck and dont like all the "normie" referneces... like link in ungoro. I know, im cringe. I have issues

[balmy condor]

you think hxh references are normie

this hill is growing

and getting hotter

[fleet whale]

the harrison jones one was by far the most cringe wow reference

[polar apex]

Oh no it's nietzches eternal reoccurrence

[fleet whale]

in uldum

hxh isn't even close to cringe

[granite copper]

im just a wittle baby piss boy who doenst like people having fun

[polar apex]

Honestly when sub started going all ninja like they 1000% should have had Naruto references everywhere

[fleet whale]

nah

[vast patio]

Naruto is more dbz than ninja-ish tbh

[fleet whale]

that would bring the Havoc Demon hunters back to rogue

[polar apex]

I'm not sure havoc demon hunters can count to 5

[fleet whale]

they were all spamming black powder in the first two weeks of SL

to show off their empty calorie dps

[vast patio]

1, 4, 7, 45, 2, 2, 2, 5.

Just like that

[faint harness]

Prydaz is the most cringe reference

[polar apex]

I didn't know prydaz was a reference omg

[plush oasis]

I'm too uncultured to know that one.

[faint harness]

Named after one Eric Prydz album

Called Magnum Opus

[balmy condor]

(he's a dj)

[faint harness]

He is the guy that made “call on me”

With hot yoga girls

In the video

[ember rover]

Hot yoga guy*

There's a guy there too

[fleet whale]

how about sephuz

[faint harness]

I choose to see the women

[fleet whale]

which is a reference to a wow dev

most cringe by far

[faint harness]

That one is cute at least

[sudden canyon]

!Bis

[prisma monolith]

Whispyrs Bis list: http://tiny.cc/76r5tz

[fleet whale]

and i'm just kidding btw

[faint harness]

Cus he left the team

[polar apex]

Idk self inserts & tributes are fine

[fleet whale]

he was a also a rogue player i believe

[balmy condor]

hes

we miss him every day

[faint harness]

According to koji he was the rogue dev at least

[balmy condor]

F

he got moved to overwatch or something

[fleet whale]

he had idiots like Shoegazer all through legion though spamming the general forums

[faint harness]

What a waste

[fleet whale]

with stuff like "bring back old sub"

[faint harness]

Hopefully sephuz comes back when ow 2.0 is out

And he only swapped to help dev that game

One can dream

[fleet whale]

Celestalon the tablet player can stay in Hearthstone though

[faint harness]

Isn’t he already back on wow

Or was that a nightmare I had

[fleet whale]

i know Holinka is

you might be thinking of him

[faint harness]

Nah

I am thinking of blue dragon man

[fleet whale]

nah i don't think he's back, and speaking of class devs

i miss sigma too

cause i think he played rogue a bit

[faint harness]

Sigma was also around in legion right

[fleet whale]

yeah

legion and bfa

[faint harness]

Did they all leave at the same time or what

[fleet whale]

idk when sigma moved over, but he was at least responsible in ensuring that symbols was gonna stay off the gcd in BFA

that was a major bullet dodged

[faint harness]

So now there are interns running the class devving makes sense given the current status quo

[fleet whale]

either interns or balance druids and mm hunters

[faint harness]

Not even

Fire mages yet again man

[fleet whale]

remember when fire was apparently trash in SL alpha and beta

[faint harness]

Someone in that dev team really wants to see fire mage on top

[fleet whale]

and that it was gonna be a garbage can spec

[ember rover]

It was trash the majority of the dev cycle, but fire mages cried and cried and cried and cried and got most of all changes reverted

[dense cedar]

so what ur saying is rogues just have to whine harder

[fleet whale]

well they still have to press a button for ignite, but it's still annoying that they got their legion artifact ability baseline

we do whine, but it's pointless whining

rogue whining on the forums just comes down to "bring back pre legion rogue, bring back gouge for all three specs"

"rogues took more skill in cata"

etc

[dense cedar]

MoP rogue is okay i guess

but i like legion rogue

[plush oasis]

https://tenor.com/view/my-man-denzel-washington-chuckles-hehe-gif-5032462

[fleet whale]

what i'm trying to get it is that there really isn't much in terms of suggestions within all the whining

[ember rover]

Once again, assa seems fine in terms of playstyle

In my opinion, at least

What it lacks, is numbers

[fleet whale]

the buff should help it in numbers

still not a fan of SnD sort of forced in there

[dense cedar]

CT is just a worse primal wrath

[ember rover]

I think if they somehow buffed Deeper for sin only, it would make having to use SnD bearable

[plush oasis]

I always thought ct should proc vw, but that'd probably be op

[ember rover]

But the fact that SnD is shorter for Assa sucks donkey dick, ngl

[main forge]

yeah I forgot about that...

I get what a 45 second one as sub?

[plush oasis]

So snd IS shorter in sin.

But why?

[dense cedar]

it isn't shorter

wait

i didn't check something

[ember rover]

I just told you why, since Vigor is quite a bit better than Deeper, you incidently also get shorter SnD

[dense cedar]

They are all the same duration

[ember rover]

They`re not?

No deeper = no 6CP SnD?

[dense cedar]

i just checked

well ye obvs

But sin's isn't naturally shorter

[plush oasis]

Wouldn't that only matter on the first snd though? Or if you let it fall off.

[ember rover]

It's the fact that you have to refresh it more as sin

[balmy condor]

well the argument is you finish at 4 in sin and 5 in sub

therefore its shorter

but that's a weird argument because if sub played vigor, you would also finish at 4 in sub

[dense cedar]

of the small bit of sin i played when i still had daggers

[balmy condor]

so I guess it's just "Ree sin slow"

[dense cedar]

it didn't seem very bad to keep up

[balmy condor]

which is the circular argument of the century

[dense cedar]

it did eat into envenoms tho

but that's just hwo that's gonna be

[plush oasis]

I mean I think people are complaining about sin being slow in every xpac.

[dense cedar]

Sin being slow never stopped its dmg from being high

so i don't get why people would complain about its apm

[south umbra]

Mash your buttons more and it doesn’t feel slow

[plush oasis]

You can even do that little strafe dance if you're feeling peppy.

[dense cedar]

if u aren't careful they'll make Font of Power into a baseline ability for Sin

[balmy condor]

It’s just so weird

[plush oasis]

Oh fuck no

[south umbra]

Part of the sin rotation atm is explaining why you’re not sub/outlaw so that increase apm anyway

[plush oasis]

You gotta fit that explanation in between muts.

[umbral rapids]

lmao