and don't if you don't want too
#assassination
stuck tartan
rogue's covenants are close to each other
ornate raptor
I enjoy NF , swapped from venthyr
tight ravine
i like exe phase
cold rampart
guys
dreamy jungle
night fae is better then kyrian on max lvl
cold rampart
i heard rumors
hollow hawk
which one
opaque mauve
Will this 8% be enough ? I felt like we needed a buff to energy regen through bleeds or whatever ?
dreamy jungle
not by a lot but a little bit
balmy condor
Will this 8% be enough ? I felt like we needed a buff to energy regen through bl...
pins
hollow hawk
the one you can afk on or the one where afking will kill you
tight ravine
@balmy condor because this is the most inconvenient time for you
balmy condor
true
tight ravine
i'm sorry that is how life works
crimson sedge
im having fun watching whipsyr
stoic needle
Will this 8% be enough ? I felt like we needed a buff to energy regen through bl...
The thing is that either the numbers had to go up or the energy regen had to go up to account for the previous numbers
shrewd pivot
8% is nice
hollow hawk
id saying pogchamp but you know
stuck tartan
energy regen doesnt make your rupture make more than sucking
opaque mauve
Pinned already lol
ornate raptor
@tight ravine i guess exe phase is better overall. But dashin sounds juicy as well for Certain fights in CN
stoic needle
I feel like we should keep using pogchamp because the pogchamp guy hates that he is a meme
tawny barn
how frost got bigger buff though, its fine in mythic plus and single target isnt bad at all.....
granite bramble
!bis
prisma monolithBOT
Whispyrs Bis list: http://tiny.cc/76r5tz
winged holly
Komodohype
stoic needle
Just to spite him
shrewd night
Request declined
balmy condor
strange python
will the 8% buff change anything in viability
balmy condor
Request declined
how bout slow mode 
stuck tartan
tight ravine
actually question -> why is Reverberation good for mythic as sin?
shrewd night
Youre already slow
balmy condor
queen ermine
Give this hero a slow mode.
raw tusk
wild lantern
kick him while he's down 
sudden brook
hey do i use blood of the enemy or CLF on sin this week in keys?
balmy condor
fleet whale
you use iris
fleet whale
obviously
balmy condor
I thought I knew you smh
rustic thunder
is it over
fleet whale
why is Worldvein simbait?
rustic thunder
okay we still goin
fleet whale
can anyone explain?
stuck tartan
iris is life
prime void
Can I tb on cooldown or is that a dps loss?
fleet whale
why do we use honed mind rank 2 instead of another expedient?
low girder
i made whispyr do the math at one point, dropping shiv from rotation is -2%
sudden brook
can i use 2 axes as sin or do i need 2 fist weapons?
prime void
Staff^
patent cloud
1 sword 1 mace
stuck tartan
can i use 2 axes as sin or do i need 2 fist weapons?
u need 2 really small swords
fleet whale
why is 34% crit mandatory?
fleet whale
with these buffs, do we need 34% crit again?
balmy condor
so we can all pepepoint at people who ask pinned questions
patent cloud
i am happy for you sinners
royal lantern
why is 34% crit mandatory?
because the spec is unplayable with less then 34%
stuck tartan
8% aura buff, 80% more memes, 800% more people
prime void
Oh the people have always been here
stuck tartan
just muted this amirite
prime void
All the people memeing have been here for quite awhile
balmy condor
yeh
livid temple
lol those buffs are just a joke
balmy condor
ah
prime void
I think they're real
umbral rapids
fuck...
carmine dawn
fake buffs? 
balmy condor
imagine playing outlaw while you wait for sin to become viable
instead of sub
smh
fierce bison
was raw dmg the problem with assa?
mortal pike
umbral rapids
bruh i sleep when paying sub
balmy condor
was raw dmg the problem with assa?
I mean, yeah
fathom swift
yeah cause outlaws actually good
balmy condor
you give a spec more damage, it does more damage
normal plover
is the dream alive guys
balmy condor
once it does enough, its viable
rustic thunder
wasn't the rotation the problem?
livid temple
@balmy condor what about the 27% downtime
balmy condor
is the dream alive guys
pins
balmy condor
<@!167090536602140682> what about the 27% downtime
what about it
prime void
Imagine not playing a whole nother class while waiting
rustic thunder
genuinely asking, i mained BFA assa and it was ok-ish
umbral rapids
you give a spec more damage, it does more damage
wait what really ? it works that way ?
cosmic prism
wait so will sin be competitive now or is it still below outlaw at everything?
minor thicket
I wonder if Sin will outperform outlaw now
balmy condor
wait so will sin be competitive now or is it still below outlaw at everything?
outlaw will remain better
balmy condor
wasn't the rotation the problem?
no, its fine
balmy condor
I wonder if Sin will outperform outlaw now
won't
umbral rapids
ur fine uwu
daring pecan
you do more damage when you have more damage? 
fierce bison
clownlaw
carmine dawn
you give a spec more damage, it does more damage
livid temple
@balmy condor like thats a huge amount of time where you are only autoattacking the boss... im like 90% sure sin has the highest downtime of all specs
cosmic prism
what about pvp, any ideas?
tawny barn
single target rotation without blindside is absolutely horrible
balmy condor
<@!167090536602140682> like thats a huge amount of time where you are only autoa...
okay, but why does that matter
summer horizon
Imagine if Envenom refreshed SnD for the same number of combo points it used
balmy condor
what about pvp, any ideas?
idk, go bother #pvp 
umbral rapids
give it a bit until it hits live for people to actually try the changes peeps :)
daring pecan
didn't you know Whispyr? low apm = low damage
balmy condor
didn't you know Whispyr? low apm = low damage
true
prime void
Please don't go bother pvp
daring pecan
that's why prot pala does the most damage
royal lantern
downtimes are part of the spec in the current desing
balmy condor
how could I have forgotton
daring pecan
high apm = BIG DEEPS
prime void
Sin has historically been low apm no?
shrewd night
I mean, THATS VERY TRUE RN THO KEK
cerulean walrus
Shiennar has joined the party
prime void
Who is shi
balmy condor
shiennar? is that the guy on the website?
fickle spindle
sin is the one true spec
placid ether
How does sin feel in m+? Havent even tried it, was wauting for it to get a buff, played other classes because screw outlaw and sub
wild lantern
wait why doesn't koffing have his name on the website
stoic needle
Whispyr: I don't expect to see any buffs until next tier
Blizzard: watch while we ruin this man's whole career 
balmy condor
How does sin feel in m+? Havent even tried it, was wauting for it to get a buff,...
your cp generation will suck without crit, which feels bad, but the damage from garrote/dots will be acceptable probably after the buff
I wouldn't recommend it in m+ over outlaw in any way
carmine dawn
but how many garretts?
balmy condor
but it'll be playable most likely if you're not pushing
crisp glen
godspeed, Whispyr.
balmy condor
fleet whale
sin should be fine now for 10 to 15 keys
prime void
Do you think with the buff I'll be able to complete 10s on time now?
lean marten
8% dmg makes spec play better right
prime void
I've depleted every single one
hollow jolt
real bay
it plays like before but more stronk
hollow jungle
anyone have a current sin sim w/ zoldyks, conduits etc.?
daring pecan
:pepepoint:
carmine dawn
at least they apologized
balmy condor
anyone have a current sin sim w/ zoldyks, conduits etc.?
!bis
prisma monolithBOT
Whispyrs Bis list: http://tiny.cc/76r5tz
balmy condor
yeh
umbral rapids
more dam does more dam 
balmy condor
:P
sudden brook
i cant wait for 9.1 when sub is the best spec
sudden brook
and ppl talk about how great the spec feels
balmy condor
:)
sudden brook
:3
carmine dawn
can u pin that - more dam does more dam?
that part trips me up
fleet whale
guy do you mean sin
sudden brook
yeah
balmy condor
@sudden brook can't you see it, sin is scaling. 5-8% every couple weeks
fleet whale
yeah like i said
sudden brook
spec hasnt enetered my brain for the past few months
fleet whale
all these complaints about apm and sin being slow
are gonna go away
when these buffs hit
fleet anchor
After another 5% buff
normal plover
why would they go away
real bay
big scaling, huge damages
fleet anchor
It will be about what we said it had to be at the end of beta 😛
balmy condor
poggers
fleet anchor
We pretty much estimated Assassination needed about 20%
hollow jungle
ok, so like what am i missing? if you add 8% to current bis sin sims it's still like 400 dps under current sub
torpid sluice
mortal scaffold
ASSA BUFFS!!!!
fleet whale
sub is ass at nathria's mechanics
royal lantern
it allready got %buffs
umbral rapids
not really
coral imp
is sin better than sub in 3-5 cleave?
normal plover
yeah but assn is easier on boss fights because of doing damage while running around
agile geode
y
stoic needle
I mean it's a good thing that sin doesn't beat out sub on pure ST otherwise sub would be complete garbage
royal lantern
+sin is dot based, wich is better for downtimes
hollow jungle
are those not in the bis sheet already? the previous 5%?
normal plover
jinx
stoic needle
It's okay for specs to have niches
tidal gorge
I knew I left my name red for a reason 😄
stoic needle
Sin was already better than sub for cleave and aoe
fast nacelle
its 8% aurabuff
umbral rapids
it's actually 13.4 not 13 è_é
dreamy jungle
but wait whspyr why does it say that kyrian is better than nightfae ? as far as i know nightfae is stronger at max lvl than kyrian ?
balmy condor
ok, so like what am i missing? if you add 8% to current bis sin sims it's still ...
what you're missing is that the 400 dps difference makes it viable. No one said "poggers is gonna outsim sub sub dead we play sin now". It's simply viable, and given a progression environment with downtime, you'll see sin and sub stand shoulder to shoulder in a lot of situations
balmy condor
but wait whspyr why does it say that kyrian is better than nightfae ? as far as ...
yes, but not currently
sudden brook
an 8% aura buff
fleet whale
they are both close anyway
full tide
What does "TC's" and "CF's" mean in that pinned message @balmy condor
umbral rapids
why
normal plover
this is why I held out on making my second legendary, I just knew
fleet whale
i think cause of auto attacks
muted ridge
Assa making comeback 
balmy condor
What does "TC's" and "CF's" mean in that pinned message <@!167090536602140682>
theorycrafters/community figures
hollow jungle
i mean i suppose....but when looking at the raid, you aren't going sin for sludge, nor the last two fights i don't think so viable is a mislead imo
full tide
theorycrafters/community figures
Ty!
mortal scaffold
hello its me an assa rogue 
dreamy jungle
why is dashing better than zoldyck in st, doesnt zoldyck scale better ?
sudden brook
sin for sludge might be alright
fleet whale
sin def could be used for denathrius
faint harness
Zoldyck assa will be good for denny
balmy condor
i mean i suppose....but when looking at the raid, you aren't going sin for sludg...
you wouldn't go rogue either, so I guess fuck viability for that as well right
umbral rapids
sin def could be used for denathrius
huh? why ?
balmy condor
if you want to split hairs on what constitutes viability that's fine
mint peak
why wouldnt you go sin for sludgefist
fleet whale
if were talking true viability you wouldn't go rogue
hollow jungle
i mean sure rogue is not hot overall
umbral rapids
why wouldnt you go sin for sludgefist
you just don't go melee there is what he meant
rogue's pretty good
DKs are too good
halcyon zealot
lets be honest any melee who isnt the red class is sort of memeing
normal plover
that whole fight is awful, I don't even want to be invited to it (sludgefist)
daring pecan
ask foreverguy if you should play melee
jovial spear
sub is a shitshow though
normal plover
yeah f that fight
umbral rapids
i've been tilted since wednesday cause of that shitshow
dreamy jungle
sludge is easy af, make ur own raid only invite mages and locks get 2 shamis go 2 2 6 oneshot, every time
in hc!
honest lake
With the assi buff , u think they gonna be better than sub
normal plover
but you could play it without being laughed at so much
dreamy jungle
remember this is not final theyre trying this buffs out rnow maybe theyll tune it up
low girder
they can't tune up too much, or you invalidate sub's existence
violet wasp
!stats
prisma monolithBOT
**Shadowlands: ** Haste > Versatility => Critical Strike => Mastery
normal plover
okay only the bad people start playing assn then
fleet whale
you guys are missing the true benefit from this sin buff
normal plover
assn and sub have two niches, it wouldnt invalidate
solar hare
8% buff a lot? I saw like 4 classes get 8-9% i wanna know if thats enough to push it to viable
fleet whale
imagine how it's gonna be in torghast now
normal plover
also sub for pvp always
honest lake
30% extra damage in sludgefist
umbral rapids
they can't tune up too much, or you invalidate sub's existence
they did that for 2 years, just make it 2 more
honest lake
With the buff
balmy condor
8% buff a lot? I saw like 4 classes get 8-9% i wanna know if thats enough to pus...
pins
solar hare
❤️ @balmy condor
echo cargo
Deffo viable, but still worst of the rogue specs imo
low girder
doing it before doesn't mean they want to do it again lol
dreamy jungle
As always, the changes above (with the exception of the Podtender fix) are a work in progress, and may differ before they go live. We'll have the final tuning noted in our Hotfixes Update post next week
real bay
worst maybe in sims but not in practice
dreamy jungle
id say we wait till theyre live then we talk
low girder
they rarely if ever increase the buffs
real bay
m+ worst for sure tho lmao
dreamy jungle
last tuning they changed the nerf to dk
stoic needle
Idk how it's worse than sub in m+ with the buff
dreamy jungle
and ppl said there wont be any tunings rn and there they are, so wait and see
coral imp
better than sub in m+?
balmy condor
its still got less utility
low girder
probably not tbh
topaz saffron
I might not get removed from high keys when they see im not outlaw now
prime void
As long as I can chest my 10s now I'll be happy with the buffs
balmy condor
its most likely going to be the same argument for outlaw vs sub, except with slightly less damage
sin will cleave harder than sub
stoic needle
You could chest 10s pre 8% as sin
balmy condor
but it'll do less single target
topaz saffron
12/13's where removing me FML
halcyon zealot
.. you can chest a 10 as literally any spec in this game what lol
prime void
Nope sin just didn't do enough damage before. I think this buff will really push us over the edge though :)
somber thistle
im sin and wokring on 12's atm. all 10's have been done
topaz saffron
im sin and wokring on 12's atm. all 10's have been done
Hows it feeling?
prime void
Oh shit my bad then. You guys are just gamers
halcyon zealot
lol ya like if ur thinking a 10 is a hard to time key, lets be honest, the buffs dont matter for u anyways lol
somber thistle
feel useless on big pulls obv
placid ether
I mean, sins strength in previous expansions m+ was cleave when targets lived long enough
It should still be that
So prob decent on fortified weeks
stoic needle
Hows it feeling?
If you consistently get up Ruptures and garottes it's not bad at all tbh
prime void
I definitely think they're pretty hard. Like I said though, with the buff they'll be alot easier!
balmy condor
the CP problem will solve itself eventually with more crit tbh
a baseline gain to damage is fine
it won't feel great
but it'll be okay
stoic needle
the CP problem will solve itself eventually with more crit tbh
||scaling?||
marsh wharf
they should honestly take the rng off poison bomb and just lower the damage
make it 20% proc per combo point
stuck tartan
||scaling?||
the s word
stoic needle
dreamy jungle
y poison bom mech is trash they should change it
balmy condor
we play CT in keys
marsh wharf
yea but if they made poison bomb scale with combo points it would be more fun to use imo
marsh wharf
i wouldn't say that
marsh wharf
sin and outlaw are always going to be variable at high m+ later on
grim wolf
Repeating
marsh wharf
once you can reliably get 4 combo points on mut you start to feel the power
balmy condor
sin and outlaw are always going to be variable at high m+ later on
except not really, because it currently isn't, and had it not been buffed, it still wouldn't be
getting combo points on fok doesn't magically make us do damage
it makes the gameplay smoother
severe steppe
Is the sin buff expected to bring it ahead of sub/outlaw?
balmy condor
Is the sin buff expected to bring it ahead of sub/outlaw?
pins
severe steppe
Thanks
gray fjord
@balmy condor o:
somber fractal
is haste still the best stat?
severe steppe
I know you guys are all assassination rogue fans I'm sure, but I've always hated the spec 😦
dreamy jungle
@balmy condor arent you tired to write that all time XD
balmy condor
is haste still the best stat?
yes
balmy condor
<@!167090536602140682> arent you tired to write that all time XD
its my job, koffing has me trapped in a box, send help
severe steppe
Super don't mind that it's viable, happy to have the variation, but man BFA was rough when it was the only viable spec
short hamlet
we play CT in keys
CT?
dreamy jungle
is it a heartshapedbox at least ?
wind flume
even if its viable or not
celest drift
So, Dashing or Zoldyck? 
balmy condor
zoldyck
stoic needle
I know you guys are all assassination rogue fans I'm sure, but I've always hated...
Then don't play it??
celest drift
i know pins says dashing but
fleet whale
zoldyck is overall better and more versatile
severe steppe
Then don't play it??
Eh tell that to Sub spec in BFA
celest drift
roger that
severe steppe
Sorry that is misleading
tell that to Assassination spec as a rogue in BFA
nothing else really worked except assassination
stoic needle
Ahh I see what you mean
severe steppe
It was still pretty low by comparison in raiding though
true rapids
except for that one week on zul
wind flume
i played assasa in bfa and was glad subt was competetive
balmy condor
It really wasn't that bad
severe steppe
Either way, I'm happy that all 3 specs are closer to being on par. I just am checking to make sure assassination buff didn't just turn it into BFA assassination 2.0
stoic needle
Nah you're fine to keep playing sub
balmy condor
severe steppe
😄
stoic needle
Outlaw is still bis
severe steppe
balmy condor
you can play whatever you wnat
severe steppe
I play outlaw and sub
stoic needle
I feel good that I don't have to craft finality anymore
severe steppe
why don't you have to craft finality anymore?
fleet whale
how much ash do you need for rank 4?
true rapids
its only a matter of time till you can craft r4 zoldyck
urban marsh
5150
balmy condor
cause sins viable
severe steppe
ahhhhh
short hamlet
I feel bad cause I just crafted r4 finality
You and me both brother
timber pawn
me as well @balmy condor
fleet whale
good
rustic thunder
im now torn, i have 2k ash and dunno if i should craft the celerity or zoldyck now
dark jewel
so is sub/outlaw gonna be better till the end of this tier?
spice spire
Welcome home Whispyr
rustic thunder
!guide
prisma monolithBOT
somber egret
Everyone creeping out from under the rug, asking “is Ass back?”
stoic needle
no ash boys
this is what you get for betraying us as sub 
real bay
🔮
true rapids
would ass be better for m+ or is sub still viable enough that I dont have to play outlaw?
spice spire
so is sub/outlaw gonna be better till the end of this tier?
Probably
balmy condor
this is what you get for betraying us as sub <:besad:507266809431326729>
happens, I'll be back soon
fallow solar
Ass legos any good?
spice spire
fleet whale
i just hope the market hasn't adjusted for the future buffs let
and pants are gonna be expensive as hell now lol
stoic needle
OOF let me go get my cheap boots and gloves for dashing and doomblade
severe steppe
Can someone help me understand the appeal of this spec though. I don't mean that disparagingly. I just have always found it like warlock in melee, but maybe that's not how you guys see it
stoic needle
that is part of the appeal yes
pine grove
I find the spec calming to play.
rustic thunder
a lot of numbers appear very quickly on the screen
fleet whale
i just really like the theme
near pilot
sin to the moon?!??
stoic needle
i love murdering people with bleeds and poisons
tidal gorge
Some people enjoy the dot management. I like the fact that the rotation allows me to pay a lot of attention to mechanics, and I also like the fixed cooldown timers
fleet whale
assassination imo is one of the "evilest" specs in the game
pine grove
You're sort of playing in the future. Knowing what you need to do in 10s and using that to work out how many envenoms you can squeeze in.
stoic needle
assassination imo is one of the "evilest" specs in the game
like have you seen the mutilate animation with the kingslayers
minor thicket
Guys the buff isn’t going to make SIN the cream of the crop all of a sudden. It’s literally bringing it up from dog shit to respectable
past mauve
It literally feels like Christmas hearing Assassination will be viable again! I hated Sub!
pine grove
Yes. We're happy about that.
minor thicket
Outlaw is still stronger
calm grail
I'm more curious how it affects dungeons.
past mauve
^
pine grove
Yeah. We just want to play sin and it not be total dog shit tier.
balmy condor
We do not care that outlaw is still stronger
this.
I crafted a 190 celerity in a moment of weakness
and then never used it
past mauve
think of it as transmog material LOL
pine grove
I betrayed sin for sub, but I could never go to outlaw. Despise that spec.
balmy condor
I betrayed sin for sub, but I could never go to outlaw. Despise that spec.
basically the camp I'm in
past mauve
basically the camp I'm in
Ditto
somber thistle
I betrayed sin for sub, but I could never go to outlaw. Despise that spec.
tisk tisk
stuck tartan
i just hate both sub and outlaw tbh
tidal gorge
Ya, I chose sub as the lesser evil. I tried to like outlaw, but it feels too freaking spammy
stuck tartan
atleast this exp's outlaw isnt legion or bfa's outlaw
pine grove
tisk tisk
I know. 😦 I've played the spec non-stop for 10 years, but this year my guild wants to go CE so I had to be a bit viable. 😦
gray fjord
I crafted a 190 celerity in a moment of weakness
Well you can't destroy legendaries so now you're stuck with it as a reminder of your shame. :3
balmy condor
it'll sit in my bank
past mauve
Ya I was "forced" into Sub for raiding. But not anymore! BAM take that Ass haters in my raid
balmy condor
I never open my bank anyway
tight ravine
outlaw in legion was horrible
balmy condor
strange python
!stats
prisma monolithBOT
**Shadowlands: ** Haste > Versatility => Critical Strike => Mastery
stoic needle
190 MA, 210 celerity, 225 > 235 zoldyck
stuck tartan
I never open my bank anyway
its bottom bags for me
i have 1 of each spec, now its time to bank them lmao
stuck tartan
the ring
gray fjord
3>
balmy condor
gray fjord
💔
stuck tartan
next to a...haste mastery ring?
frail fossil
man u really realize the worth of smth once u loose it
so happy sin is playable again xd
obtuse anvil
would you say that you don't know what ya got, til it's gone?
stuck tartan
next to the 174 main hand
hey, same, world quest weapon for outlaw 
wet condor
will assa be viable for m+?
stoic needle
it'll be funny to see all the new red names over the next few days
balmy condor
will assa be viable for m+?
don't know yet
frail fossil
would you say that you don't know what ya got, til it's gone?
yeap
balmy condor
it'll be funny to see all the new red names over the next few days
and then there's me, always red under this coat of green
stuck tartan
tbh, i dont know why I still had sub's color
fleet whale
nah the red names won't come till 9.1 raid
frail fossil
it'll be funny to see all the new red names over the next few days
i'll still play outlaw tbf, i just will switch
stuck tartan
I dont play sub since a month or so
frail fossil
instead of outlaw only
balmy condor
the hell did I do
rough rivet
so guys are we happy with this buff or we are sticking to damn outlaw ????
balmy condor
so guys are we happy with this buff or we are sticking to damn outlaw ????
very happy
fleet whale
people don't have enough ash to make a high ilvl sin leggo yet
stoic needle
whispyr is #1 tox
stuck tartan
very happy indeed
pine grove
Even when I went sub, I couldn't bring myself to lose the red name.
stoic needle
so guys are we happy with this buff or we are sticking to damn outlaw ????
damn outlaw 
real bay
how much ash was r4
stuck tartan
5150
viral locust
8% buff good enough to make things not dog shit boys? is it time?
stuck tartan
or something like that
stoic needle
i tried to like sub and OL but i just couldnt do it
graceful halo
does sin still feel like crap due to energy issues?
stoic needle
decided to keep playng sin anyway because my raid didn't care
stoic needle
now if i can get a weapon above ilvl 200
stuck tartan
Outlaw made me sleepy on everything else
balmy condor
does sin still feel like crap due to energy issues?
that's entirely your opinion
sour oasis
Wow the up of 8% put the assa spec on the first rogue spec ?
frail fossil
Wow the up of 8% put the assa spec on the first rogue spec ?
no
fleet whale
sin apm for me is like 46 for ST
balmy condor
Wow the up of 8% put the assa spec on the first rogue spec ?
that's not what viable means
fleet whale
really not a problem for me
stoic needle
I'm not good enough to react fast enough for outlaw nor to plan ahead enough for sub
stuck tartan
still the 190 boe dagger I got from a dungeon pull 
dreamy jungle
Outlaw made me sleepy on everything else
thats not possible u have to spam skills and look for the right rolls, u get dizzy but not sleepy
stoic needle
sin is perfect for my boomer brain 
frail fossil
is raidbot updated on the 8% buff yet ?
balmy condor
won't be updated till its live
frail fossil
yeah they cant be that quick
balmy condor
that's how it works
frail fossil
make sense
balmy condor
buffs/nerfs aren't live in raidbots until its live in game
rough rivet
so after next restart we are going to swap from outlaw to assassination !!!
stoic needle
multi dot
balmy condor
by multidotting
balmy condor
so after next restart we are going to swap from outlaw to assassination !!!
if you want, outlaw is still better
tidal gorge
I find sub mentally exhausting to play in raid. 😦 The rotation is fine by itself, but due to its punishing nature my eyes are always making sure I'm not gonna dance during a mechanic. Will be so happy to go back to sin
proven ferry
Whispyr, what do you think of the buff ?
proven ferry
FML I am@on mobile
stoic needle
I think i will get lvl 4 zoldyck and the fangs of the father in the same week
balmy condor
gottem
stoic needle
next week is gonna be giga
fleet whale
Sin is gonna be soooo good in torghast now
stoic needle
whispyr post your onlyfans
fleet whale
i'm honestly kind of hyped for that lol
marsh wharf
whispyr which assassin legendary are you most happy with
pine grove
Are we good in Torg? I've not had problems doing the 8s, but I've not gone endless yet.
marsh wharf
have you tried tiny toxic blade
balmy condor
Are we good in Torg? I've not had problems doing the 8s, but I've not gone endle...
ye sin has always been good in torg
muted ridge
So Assa still shit compared to other two?
balmy condor
have you tried tiny toxic blade
stuck tartan
Sin is gonna be soooo good in torghast now
loved doing vein rippers hit for 3 M yesterday, now it's gonna do 3,24 pog
balmy condor
So Assa still shit compared to other two?
not shit, but worse
tidal gorge
Is sin better than sub in Torg? I always just fill hp powers and become immortal
balmy condor
Is sin better than sub in Torg? I always just fill hp powers and become immortal
arguably, yes
stuck tartan
sin is only better in the fire one
frail fossil
mfs not reading the pins
stoic needle
I'd say sin is just better overall
low girder
wait why
fleet whale
idk how you guys use vein ripper in solo
marsh wharf
just hit vanish
stoic needle
master poisoner + leech and mind numbing poison is quite a bit of damage reduction in torghast
low girder
the fire one is where soothing shines the most lol
marsh wharf
keybind vanish and you're using vein ripper
marsh wharf
welcome to hours ago dei
stuck tartan
idk how you guys use vein ripper in solo
I dont, I play with my friend and gf
proven ferry
I have two options learn outlaw rotation and craft rank 4 celerity or wait another week to see how ass feels
balmy condor
we back at it
you're like an hour late
iron orchid
OH SHIT
south umbra
Stubborn 1 tricks like me rejoice
real bay
wait
iron orchid
that was my twisted corridors run soz
somber fractal
why do the pins say dashing scoundral is best leggo but literally nobody runs it?
pine grove
@iron orchid It's a party all up in here.
stuck tartan
OH SHIT
didnt u see the more than 10 people talkin at the same time on a dead channel?
marsh wharf
dashing scoundral omegalul
iron orchid
Well
balmy condor
why do the pins say dashing scoundral is best leggo but literally nobody runs it...
because its the same argument as akaari vs finality
stuck tartan
why do the pins say dashing scoundral is best leggo but literally nobody runs it...
only on ST, zoldycks better overall
stoic needle
why do the pins say dashing scoundral is best leggo but literally nobody runs it...
read the words directly before dashing scoundrel
somber fractal
i cant read
stoic needle
i see
iron orchid
bumped into a 19.9M boss in my layer 7 twisted corridors run, could'nt manage to look down here
stoic needle
nah
iron orchid
Guess @balmy condor is getting more work next week
balmy condor
pine grove
Is Dashing/Zol a similar situation to Akari/Final?
balmy condor
resims
iron orchid
ehe
balmy condor
Is Dashing/Zol a similar situation to Akari/Final?
yes
dim mirage
ARE WE BACK, BABY???
balmy condor
doom/zol is similar as well
iron orchid
Imma help you guide them all
pine grove
A'ight. Zol it is.
somber fractal
zol is gonna be bad on farm with faster kill times
stoic needle
not having lvl 3 zoldyck already 
outer lodge
My sims are being annoying.. showing EP + Mark for Death is 200+ dps higher than the rest of the combos for ST?
stoic needle
zol is gonna be bad on farm with faster kill times
regardless of the kill time it's still 30% of the boss's hp
balmy condor
Imma help you guide them all
honestly as much as I appreciate the help, most of the time when people try to help, I just have to end up correcting inconsistencies later
proven ferry
My sims are being annoying.. showing EP + Mark for Death is 200+ dps higher than...
That’s what I run
stuck tartan
My kinda guy
pine grove
Got enough Ash for level 4 Zol. Only got Final 2.
iron orchid
Guess I will just read all your posts then
proven ferry
Wait EP, I run blindside my bad
rugged dragon
Will assassination be athing with these buffs? No right?
balmy condor
Will assassination be athing with these buffs? No right?
pins
rugged dragon
My bad.
outer lodge
Yeah EP for the last week has been simming way higher for me?
I like playing blindside - that proc feels much better
proven ferry
Viable means not last ? 😂
balmy condor
MFD/EP might sim higher
but uh
I'm interested to see that
cause while MFD makes EP sim higher
vigor should smash mfd
pine grove
Vigor also makes things a lot more comfortable. I'd take the hit if it was minor.
proven ferry
I like MFD for SnD only
I don’t really press it other than 3-4 secs before SnD is dropping
And I don’t have any combo points
Does that makes sense ?
stoic needle
you should press it whenever it's off CD
sin has lowish cp generation, the extra CP from MFD are really good so you should use it as much as you can
i made a weakaura to show the icon large on my screen when it;s recharged to help
marsh wharf
To bad assassin still loses out to sub in pvp, until it can put out as much pressure to make up for cc it still dies :l
stoic needle
well this 8% will help with the pressure
but not quite with classes being able to dispel our poisons and whatnot
stoic needle
Don't even get me started on that dumb phial lol
marsh wharf
if envenom was as bursty as ferocious bite we wouldn't feel as bad unlike feral
cause ferocious bite actually hurts
outer lodge
Yeah EP+MFD showing +205 dps increasE for me
real bay
whoever thought covenant abilities and vials should work in pvp should be fired
atleast arena
stoic needle
Podtender 
stoic needle
if envenom was as bursty as ferocious bite we wouldn't feel as bad unlike feral
Those vanish envenom ma crits tho
outer lodge
@balmy condor gonna run 2 more sims then im gonna link
marsh wharf
they nerfed it oshosi :l they nerfed nightstalker to 25% in pvp
just because of one video of someone hitting 19k
fuckin won't let have assassin have anything in pvp
storm nymph
!BS
prisma monolithBOT
Macroing Ambush to Mutilate only works with the use of a addon.
It comes with the downside that it often requires multiple key presss.
Suggested addon to use(Gnome Sequencer):http://tiny.cc/mxb6tz
Showcase Video: #assassination message
tender bay
What are you guys thinking about the 8% dmg buff in changes
storm nymph
!bis
prisma monolithBOT
Whispyrs Bis list: http://tiny.cc/76r5tz
balmy condor
What are you guys thinking about the 8% dmg buff in changes
pins
pulsar sluice
aight so this dmg buff eh
drifting imp
i stuck to sin all along
near coyote
Oof
lavish isle
!sims
prisma monolithBOT
Simulations:
Herodamage: https://www.herodamage.com/rogue/
Bloodmallet: https://bloodmallet.com/index.html
pulsar sluice
id rather play sin then sub in pure st scenario ppl going scoundrel?
balmy condor
in pure single target, you would, yes
I would still recommend zoldyck
the execute damage is pretty nice
tender bay
How far behind would sin be now behind outlaw/sub on most fights?
Is it a massive difference?
honest lake
Zoldyck in sludgefist
pulsar sluice
man theres so many cleave fights in nathria its what rly made me drop sub for OL
ornate dawn
A paltry 8% doesn’t fix sin
pulsar sluice
but i dont like the idea of multidotting
balmy condor
A paltry 8% doesn’t fix sin
what is "fix" in your definition
honest lake
I will alt-spec sin rather than sub
balmy condor
idk, people have this weird idea that sin is unplayable
pulsar sluice
tbh swap SnD for kingsbane and sin is looking really nice
fair storm
Assa viable now!?!?!?
honest lake
I like to do dps in running mechanincs
tawny barn
check the pinned messeges
balmy condor
read then
fair storm
!pin
tawny barn
u bellendinos
fair storm
Bad pin
pine grove
Yeah. Kingsbane was actually fun to use.
marsh wharf
it's still shit in pvp if that makes you feel better
balmy condor
we don't know how it'll be in m+
boreal vale
Not like everybodey comes here and directly reads the pin again
pulsar sluice
outlaw is still gonna be better in mythic plus, but in pure st i think sin will be good cause you get to do mechanics n let dots run its course
humble ginkgo
FAREWELL SUB ROGUE
tired falcon
and im assuming pvp is also a no idea?
balmy condor
single target a little behind sub
fair storm
We are amazing now? S tier spec!!!!
humble ginkgo
HELLO ASSASSINATION
fair storm
HELLO
drifting imp
bless you whispyr it's gonna be a looooooong day 😄
balmy condor
Not like everybodey comes here and directly reads the pin again
I highly suggest getting into the habit when you see changes to a spec
stuck tartan
no red name I see I see...
empty crescent
@pulsar sluice do you play outlaw in CN?
pulsar sluice
yep
fair storm
8+5% 
balmy condor
not checking pins first when a patch is announced is on you
empty crescent
fuck im debating making the swap, but i have a 210 mace only with 226/220 daggers
pulsar sluice
I outdps our unholy dks alot, I lose most of the time to fire mages with PI tho
fair storm
Nothing subtle about it
marsh wharf
@tired falcon still trash in pvp
echo cargo
not checking pins first when a patch is announced is on you
ur gonna be on suicide watch for days 😂
fair storm
And its not outlawed
tired falcon
rip
fair storm
sinful island
I outdps our unholy dks alot, I lose most of the time to fire mages with PI tho
crap unholy lol
balmy condor
@outer lodge bruh that's dungeon slice
fair storm
Unholy got nerfed????
placid dawn
just made a sub legendary, sucks that i have no soul ash for sin legendary
outer lodge
...
pine grove
Long shot, but Phial doesn't work with Zol does it?
balmy condor
Long shot, but Phial doesn't work with Zol does it?
what?
pulsar sluice
depends what you wanna play @empty crescent
native turtle
phial takes off bleeds/poisons yes....
outer lodge
i hate myself
empty crescent
itd be mostly for raid and i suppose some m+
fair storm
Assassin is not ass anymore!!!!
pulsar sluice
crap unholy lol
well yeah probbaly not the greatest but we aren't tht behind them either
pine grove
Sorry, I meant Phial of Putrefaction doesn't work with Zol. I'm guessing no, but asking ain't stealin'.
stoic needle
friendly reminder that you can remove the subtlety tag by typing "!subtlety" in #bot-spam
odd belfry
!guide
prisma monolithBOT
balmy condor
Sorry, I meant Phial of Putrefaction doesn't work with Zol. I'm guessing no, but...
it removes our bleeds. It does not have any interactions with zoldyck specifically, since that only buffs our bleeds
pine grove
Phial of Putrefaction. The trinket. I'm guessing it doesn't count as a poison. Sorry I wasn't more clear initially.
pulsar sluice
He's talking about the trinket, excuse the socially inept
humble ginkgo
Is assassination actually going to beviable tho?
compared to sub rogue or outlaw in raid/dungeon
pulsar sluice
Yes go use up your soul ash now
tawny barn
in raids yes, mythic plus unlikely
strange python
!stats
prisma monolithBOT
**Shadowlands: ** Haste > Versatility => Critical Strike => Mastery
fair storm
Assassin in mythic raids
balmy condor
Phial of Putrefaction. The trinket. I'm guessing it doesn't count as a poison. S...
oh oh oh
its been a long last 2 hours sorry
trinkets have no interaction with spec abilities
pine grove
Nah, no worries. I forgot the Kyrian phial is a thing.
fair storm
Im simming 500more dps with sub? Did the assa buffs affect sub or is it a bug
pine grove
Aye. Figured as much.
proper sage
why is sin good now
balmy condor
so zoldyck doesn't buff it, neither does wps, etc
normal plover
I need two daggers dont I?
proper sage
did it hit 40% crit?
balmy condor
Im simming 500more dps with sub? Did the assa buffs affect sub or is it a bug
raidbots won't update with the change until it hits live, you're simming pre-buff
deft rampart
What does TC and CF mean
fair storm
Sin still feels like shit. The dps was obviously lackluster but the rotation doesnt feel good at all.
balmy condor
What does TC and CF mean
theoycrafter/community figure
pulsar sluice
blame SnD for assass rotation feeling like dookie
deft rampart
theoycrafter/community figure
thank you
balmy condor
I love how sin plays atm tbh
drifting imp
i think the rotation is pretty good, you need a lot of haste tho
balmy condor
it's a little slow, but its not bad
fair storm
U love snd?
balmy condor
I do
fair storm
Snd feels bad
normal plover
why would SnD feel bad
fair storm
It should be baseline
vivid shuttle
I just wish I could macro Mutilate and Ambush together
stuck tartan
It is baseline
pine grove
Eugh. I remember HFB. That felt bad.
fair storm
I mean baseline as always up
pine grove
Except the bleed removal. That part was nice.
drifting imp
i played it the whole exp now, once you get used to snd and take blindside, the rotation feels pretty good
normal plover
whats the point of it if it's always up
pulsar sluice
Nah just make envenom refresh SnD bingo bango
tired falcon
o.O
dim mirage
i like blindside. hate slice
tired falcon
snd is fine lol
pine grove
Nah just make envenom refresh SnD bingo bango
Ahh. Good ol' Cut to the Chase.
manic harness
Or hopefully even better than OutlawW?
tired falcon
doubtful that any rogue spec can outseat outlaw
grim canopy
Now that I get to return to my main spec i play each expansion
fair storm
I. People thinking snd is «fine» lol get a grip
tired falcon
just too much utility
grim canopy
after 8% buffs
balmy condor
I. People thinking snd is «fine» lol get a grip
whats wrong with hitting a button 8 times a fight
dreamy jungle
outlaw makes 0% fun but is the storngest choose
normal plover
I mean isnt SnD the same as it's been for practically like 10 years
grim canopy
i rather press kingsbane 8 times tho
balmy condor
Or hopefully even better than OutlawW?
pins
tired falcon
outlaw is fun xD
dreamy jungle
my ass spamming buttons and using gambling like mechanics
manic harness
thanks, just got home, saw buffs, came to discord to cry
grim canopy
kingsbane = chad. sNd = nerd
fading wigeon
Wooooo we are back boys and girls
balmy condor
if you want kingsbane, play night fae
tawny barn
however in mythic plus u wont be taking blindside and on top u need to keep up crimson so its so single target rotation is cancer in mythic plus content imo
pulsar sluice
Ahh. Good ol' Cut to the Chase.
the only reason they removed it was cause we lost SnD so....why not bring it back again
tired falcon
my ass spamming buttons and using gambling like mechanics
every class spams buttons
grim canopy
crimson palm
Hello what is best covenant new rogue
dreamy jungle
not like outlaw, i have the feeling i cant take a break when playing outlaw, being on 1kg caffein feels more chill than that
manic harness
I think people complain too much about SnD. If you played CT Sin at the end of BFA it's the exact same, except SnD lasts longer
grim canopy
Yeah my rogue is lvl 50, im fuckd in terms of all that catch up shit
gotta do all that maw shit again
pine grove
I think people complain too much about SnD. If you played CT Sin at the end of B...
Yeah. SnD doesn't feel anywhere near as bad as HfB did. Dark days!
grim canopy
do u think after 8% it will be good in m+ too?
manic harness
Lol HfB :(
stoic needle
do u think after 8% it will be good in m+ too?
yes
pine grove
Cursed talent.
stoic needle
it wont be better than outlaw but it will be viable
storm nymph
!bis
prisma monolithBOT
Whispyrs Bis list: http://tiny.cc/76r5tz
kind vault
Apparently ass is getting 8% dmg abilities buff... will it still be Garbo?
balmy condor
Apparently ass is getting 8% dmg abilities buff... will it still be Garbo?
pins
pine grove
Oh dang! I did not realise that Zold could go on shoulders. Mine are still at 177. This is great news!
Or no. I misread. Damn.
stuck tartan
Zold on what
fair storm
No sub buffs
calm grail
Yeah. Could sim playable but actually end up better than it sims. Who knows.
kind vault
I c thanks
pine grove
Ignore me. Tired brain. Hiking in the snow frazzled me.
stoic needle
remains to be seen tbh
idk tbh, sub is viable in M+, and sin is better than sub in AOE. how could it not be viable?
tired falcon
theres outlaw
calm grail
As someone who plays Outlaw but has always loved assassination. Would be cool if it was as good as Outlaw on m+. That's always been my dream.
balmy condor
because damage is not the defining feature
calm grail
I'm too lazy to multi specc
stoic needle
just becuase outlaw exists doesn't make sin not viable
balmy condor
its viable
crimson palm
What is best covenant
wind canopy
TIME TO MAINTAIN AND SUCK AT 3 SPECS BOYZ
shrewd copper
Zoldyck are viable for raiding ?
balmy condor
zoldyck is our bis
lone junco
@balmy condor grats on green name.
gusty mirage
TIME TO MAINTAIN AND SUCK AT 3 SPECS BOYZ
just do what I do, push your buttons harder and cry when staring at the meters
balmy condor
bout a month and a half late, but thank you noobe :)
wind canopy
MAKING ZOLYDICK
lone junco
bout a month and a half late, but thank you noobe :)
busy with disc stuff. 😉
stoic needle
its viable
i find it hard to believe that not having cheap shot in dance or gouge is enough to make sin not viable in M+
pine grove
I don't run meters so I can't see how bad my spec is.
shrewd copper
zoldyck is our bis
Ok, i read about dashing, but i vastly prefer zoldyck
balmy condor
i find it hard to believe that not having cheap shot in dance or gouge is enough...
that's literally what made sin not viable in 8.3
balmy condor
Ok, i read about dashing, but i vastly prefer zoldyck
dashing in pure single target
pine grove
Crap. Now I've got to choose between leg shoes or leg legs.
lone junco
I really liked bracers in legion, cause the more dead people there are, the longer the 30% dags out. made that execute phase nice and juicy.
violet wasp
!guide
prisma monolithBOT
stoic needle
that's literally what made sin not viable in 8.3
lone junco
unless of course the boss yields at 10% or some dumb shit.
mossy sable
not like outlaw, i have the feeling i cant take a break when playing outlaw, bei...
Yeah thats my issue
SO much to watch
So little brainpower
balmy condor
<:monkaS:585734084014374922>
its also damage breakdown, sub can funnel into prio, and they got really strong burst, sin doesn't have that
lone junco
its nice cause you pick one for ST, one for cleave. and just let it ride 🙂
calm grail
Assassination was my first love. Good planning spec. Felt like memorizing and encounter was extra rewarding with assassination. Outlaw is pewpewpew RAPID FIRE slicing.
tawny barn
me thinks the bleeds needs bigger buff for m+ to be viable
lone junco
too bad there is no value in tabbing ruptures on the council dance fight. such a nice setup for multi bleeds. RIP
balmy condor
me thinks the bleeds needs bigger buff for m+ to be viable
we just don't know yet
pine grove
Assassination was my first love. Good planning spec. Felt like memorizing and en...
Yeah. That's what I love about it so much. All that planning actually feels relaxing to me.
gusty mirage
I'm so hard rn thinking about the sin buff
gusty mirage
gimmie dat sin bb
calm grail
Next week should yield data from All the players sticking with sin and min maxing it. For people asking "is it good now"
pine grove
Sin is also a lot more forgiving if you need to move away from a target. Sub gets crushed by that shit.
tawny barn
on st bleeds only doing 8-12 %, thats pretty pathetic tbh
dreamy jungle
I mean Outlaw would be cool if it wouldn't have that gambling buff mechanics, it's the biggest turn off I've ever had. Rngin buffs is diffrent then Rngin procs
placid ether
I like doing m+ and also kinda like poison bomb. I know some ppl are not a fan but I just love seeing that green pop up even if its pretty rng (I mean.. remember when it coj'd only pop from envenom). Is it that far behind CT in aoe scenarios or just out of favor due to rng nature? Dont have the means to run sims atm
low girder
count the odds helps a lot with that
lone junco
Assassination was my first love. Good planning spec. Felt like memorizing and en...
for me it always felt like conducting a symphony of dots and buffs and cds. the opener was precise as fuck, then super chill, waiting for 16 bars.
tawny barn
CT is a must in m+ unfortunately
balmy condor
I like doing m+ and also kinda like poison bomb. I know some ppl are not a fan b...
the damage is worse, you can move mobs out of it, and it's rng
its definitely playable
dreamy jungle
count the odds helps a lot with that
Still feels shit
balmy condor
its just not great
calm grail
Roll the bones doesn't feel bad at all actually now. You set your WAs to let you know when to re-roll and it's whatever. You can't spam re-roll. And for me, something like broadsides is actually fun.
tidal gorge
I don't like having variable cooldowns as a class mechanic. That's the entire reason I'm currently sub over outlaw
dense seal
SIN BUFF hypeeeeeeee
lone junco
trying to learn shadow. feels a lot like sin i guess. rip rogue bros tho. no time for a successful alt right now.
drifting imp
for me it always felt like conducting a symphony of dots and buffs and cds. t...
everytime i play it in raid i just feel so satisfied with the rotation. it just fits like a glove and its fun. sometimes a bit energy starved but i can ignore that
dreamy jungle
The mechanic just doesn't do it for me somehow, could've been much more than this.
placid ether
Hmm thats too bad. Feel like at least pouson bomb is ok in both aoe and st while CT gimps st too hard
dreamy jungle
Maybe another gun mechanic or smth creative
lone junco
everytime i play it in raid i just feel so satisfied with the rotation. it just ...
if I had a fucking baton I could call out the keys exactly for the first 20 sec. was nice and strict. feltgoodman.
drifting imp
yeeees
molten harbor
How is sin looking with the buff?
tawny barn
actually CT with hight haste was doing same as poison bobm on beta, not sure how is it now
tidal gorge
I just wish they would bake at least the shrouded suffocation combo points into stealthed garrote
That was win
pine grove
Oh man. I loved triple SS during early BFA. That was bonkers.
rigid wyvern
Poison bomb doesnt feel like a huge buff for ST its more that you dont have to manage CT so you get more envenoms in imo
pine grove
I may actually run LFR just to warm up on sin again. Today is a great today.
tawny barn
ye playing ct u basically never use envenom, it feels so bad
pliant apex
with a total buff of 13% now , 5 previous, this should make sin better or at par with sub, technically yes?
honest lake
The legendary priority will be the same?
pliant apex
or you guys think 8 percent wont matter?
rigid wyvern
with no mechanical changes I cant see leggo priority changing
old snow
the time has come
tawny barn
u think there be more changes or this is it?
old snow
for the assa dream
pliant apex
for the assa dream
YEAH !!!!!
fuck SUB
hard as fuck, cant rem what all to do
like a bazillion things going on, i hat it
hate
hazy geyser
so is assa still as bad as it was at the start of SL?
manic harness
sees people who were posting in sub for the last 2 months
lone junco
tfw rupture did damage.
lone junco
❤️
plush oasis
Today's the day!?
old snow
and now we can step in and show them our new form after a training montage
rigid wyvern
I was so confused by that log screenshot lmao
echo moon
man
rigid wyvern
I was wondering where melee was
shadow tulip
Another 8% buff, thoughts?
lone junco
its a bit old 🙂
echo moon
ive been sub this entire time
echo moon
switched to monk because i refused outlaw
pliant apex
will 8 mean better than sub
rigid wyvern
I've been assa this entire time, yall stay away so I can keep my parses
pliant apex
or sub still gun bee better?
echo moon
druid and convoke need huge nerf
tired falcon
better than sub in what
lone junco
druid and convoke need huge nerf
no thx. my 2s partner is Feral.
manic harness
what a soldier
rigid wyvern
Ya im a stubborn bastard
pliant apex
raids
grim canopy
so 8% to each skill. That adds up to around 60% buff
teal mountain
you remember when sub was the best rogue spe ?
rigid wyvern
thats not how math works lmao
tawny barn
lol
grim canopy
um I just used my calcultaor