then nobody will talk in here
#assassination
main forge
thick estuary
lol
i wish they would fix garrote by Out-of-Stealth Regular garrote not overwriting empowered subterfuge garrote
main forge
would be a more fun game of it just continuing
I don't know what I hate worse... when we were told we were getting the fang of the fathers legendary and everyone rerolled rogue overnight....or trying to explain why i need they need to bring my sin rogue to the raid >_>
thick estuary
it'd be nice if they made some mandatory talents either baseline or give us competitive choices. If you're raiding/M+, i can't really see a scenario where you don't take Elaborate Planning, Subterfuge, or Alacrity. At least, right now
balmy condor
I'd say you actually take EP less than the other talents in that row
thick estuary
Can't say i've ever used Blindside, my sim always says Elaborate Planning
balmy condor
maybe if you're looking at only dungeons/aoe sims yeah
but you'd take MP for torg and non-instanced stuff, blindside in single target on a good number of fights
thick estuary
i would prefer using MP, i'll check my sim again
thick estuary
ah okay
drifting cosmos
That sin rework doc, looks so much more fun and cooler! @balmy condor
Really loved if we can get our poison theme back
thick estuary
i'd like some overlap with Warlock Affliction talents, tbh
also yeah, the rework looks dope
on par with shadow priest rework
balmy condor
That sin rework doc, looks so much more fun and cooler! <@167090536602140682>
thanks thanks
thick estuary
baking in slice and dice into something would be great
gray fjord
I like that you went out of the way show different builds for each 'theme' (bleed/poison builds) and examples of situations and loadouts.
thick estuary
like envenom or something
gray fjord
Was looking over it this afternoon ^^
thick estuary
garrote 2 combo point baseline would be an amazing addition
it was like 90% of the reason suffication azerite power was mandatory
rose dome
DASHING SCOUNDREL: Envenom also increases the critical strike chance of your poisons by 15%, and their critical strikes generate 1 Energy. (Assassination Legendary option)
... uh... for how long?
rose dome
A few seconds? Forver? Buff on me? Debuff on the target?
Ahhhh, for the duration of Envenom, got it.
I was thinking just... using Envenom, period.
Not the debuff of it lol
balmy condor
envenom is a buff on you
onyx coyote
I've been a long time assassination rogue with how blizz has treated us i'm quesitoning changing specs :/ Do you all think blizz will buff us again soon? or it a lost cause to attempt to stay this spec now for raiding/keys?
balmy condor
we're not going to see changes this patch most likely
onyx coyote
that was what i was thinking as well 😦
onyx coyote
yea I've been forcing it in lower keys I'm guessing outlaw is the best all around to go then? I mainly raid heroic but want to push keys as well.
onyx coyote
cool ty! sad that have to change but i remmber having to do so for HFC too
bronze steppe
!oh
prisma monolithBOT
Mutilate requires a dagger in both hands, this makes using a non dagger weapons undesirable.
frail kiln
I think the biggest issue with sin and snd right now is that normal attack take too high of a % in our dmg comp. The whole point of a dot class is that you can dot a mob and move on, but snd requires you to sit on the mob to deal dmg, they basically took away our entire class identity just to force the return of snd, our poison/bleed dmg reduced because it had to be compensated for more melee dmg we do. It's beyond stupid imo
strange python
it just needs better talent options in the last 2 rows and an aura increase
even just the aura increase
I'd like to be able to use it on spires
drifting cosmos
questing is actually fun in SL, stories are a lot better than BFA
dim yacht
i looked at the talent rework whipsyr proposed, i just saw echoing blades and just immediately said "yes"
balmy condor
that's expected value, yes
drifting cosmos
It's still good once a while to dream a bit:thumbsup:
mortal scaffold
lol thanks for leaving no room for optimism
drifting cloud
theyre m+ hotfixes not sure what youre expecting
like hope you realize assa is most likely not getting touched till 9.1
balmy condor
blind optimism is completely unwarranted
if you're jumping for rogue changes everytime wowhead shits out an article
you're just baiting yourself
like 8 times a day
we had mythic week tuning
and that's gonna be it
strange python
as long as a 3 dps spec class has a viable spec I'm fairly sure the devs consider it a lower priority to fix tbh
split grail
Hmm...I'm using envenom wrong. Everyone elses seems to be hitting harder
balmy condor
how so
balmy condor
you're overcapping so many combo point holy
always finish at 4cp if you get there
you never generate on 4
split grail
Cool, thanks
balmy condor
otherwise looks pretty good though
split grail
Out of curiosity, how can you tell I'm overcapping by looking at logs. I'm not great at reading them
split grail
Thanks for the help!
balmy condor
np
steep obsidian
does anyone know for sure when the weekly dungeon quest disspears from the quest log?
its before server restarts right
like a few hours
balmy condor
i think its on server reset
split grail
@balmy condor Sorry, but do I want to 4cp my rupture and snd too?
balmy condor
yes
split grail
ty again
frail kiln
Hey guys, I just wrote a post in the rogue section of wow forums talking about Sin and SnD, please go take a look, upvote if you agree so it gets more attention:
https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/snd-and-assassination/790512
fallow otter
i know you're not happy but saying things like broken product is more likely to stop devs/people reading/listening - melee being top dmg is a problem and points to the fact that our dots dont do enough dmg
imo if you did your best to not have parts of the post that are combative then you might have more luck with them reading
just my 2c
thin gate
guys just a point
its pretty much sure
this wont be a melee raid
well feral is best sim dps with 230 gear atm
unholy is viable yes
but caster>melee definitly
and its hard to play the simmed dps down, we as assas have a huge lack atm
maybe we can compare with the next raid tier
we cant flame now devs for assas being "weak" atm
thin gate
kek
deft vault
And i do think we can flame devs when they can very easily buffs assas with an aura buff for this patch
thin gate
we can just pray for another 5% buff
deft vault
and if theyre too strong next patch just nerf them with an aura patch again
thin gate
thats what i mean
deft vault
they have data tho and can easily see its weak
thin gate
++
deft vault
i dont see any reason why the dont give a 5% aura buff to assas fury and frost
thin gate
yh, frost is actually gaining some "SimDPS" in benchmark
deft vault
make them a bit better and if theyre too strong next patch just nerf them with an aura nerf
thin gate
lets see how it works out ingame lel
id love to get CE on my assa, but theres no way my raidlead is gonna lemme reroll my uhdk into assa
assa is a livin meme
or better said dead meme
deft vault
if i played assas i was riding the bench for sure lol
deft vault
learned sub asap and first raid was rough lol
thin gate
idk im just twinkin the rogue rn
cba to play outlaw/sub
so im just gonna pvp pretty much with assa
thin gate
fury/arms>outlaw
be4 i play outlaw i reroll into warrior
@deft vault is sub any fun rn?
deft vault
i hated it at first
its like it now tho
still prefer assas
i wanted to be necrolord assas with doomblade legendary before the xpac
and just have a shit ton of bleed
then do big envenom with doomblade but learned doomblade bleed and bone spike dont count for doomblade
thin gate
i c...
balmy condor
they made sure there's very little interaction from one spec/covenant/legendary combo
thin gate
i thought about a mastery/haste build with mastery> and legendary ring(100%crit 4 seconds) with the nature proc damage increase medium and the 2 nature damage dungeon trinkets
balmy condor
nature damage doesn't scale with anything
even shiv
on trinkets
the trinkets just do the damage
thin gate
so the poison and trinkets are seperated?
balmy condor
yes
balmy condor
the medium?
balmy condor
oh
thin gate
of ur covenant
balmy condor
that's poison damage
balmy condor
literally just deadly poison :P
balmy condor
yeah, there's sims to do that for you
calm dome
well time to try to hit gladiator at least
You think rogue ( sin ) / mage / disc can bring you till Gladiator ?
I am actually myself grinding my arenas
Still testing different comps tho
thin gate
i still think, that assa with uhdk or firemage is one of the best combos
high burst, you got ur cc chains and anti heals
calm dome
I havent try with uhdk... interesting
thin gate
well the thing is
uhdk reduces max health
with his aura
and increases his magic damage
while you can take out the target [2] or [3]
and with ur anti heal you can help him to finish off
thin gate
yh, diszi/wwmonk/retri is a hard counter for that setup
but all other comps pretty much lack of tankiness
calm dome
Arm / shamheal also pretty hard to beat...
thin gate
ye
calm dome
I ll try with fire mage and uhdk in 3v3 . Sounds like nice burst and control with everything you just said
Went to 1k6 in 2v2 with discP . But your compo seems very good
thin gate
yh, all 3 classes got good sustain
rogue with vanish and def cds + phiole
fire mage with procs + iceblock
uhdk can consume ghoul + pace
and the max health reduce + mage damage increase of uhdk fits well into firemage kit
calm dome
Didnt know the Dk aura can benefit to the mage damages tho .
Seems op !
@thin gate which server are you playing in btw ?
thin gate
rn on blackmoore
getting my rogue up
like 24 hours awake
gonna hit now 60 then push 1800 + quick
calm dome
Thats the spirit
thin gate
pre weekly chest
calm dome
Will you play Sin ?
fallow otter
weird
tacit night
Sin 4 life
calm dome
Ryluk I feel you
thin gate
idk why i hated on BFA so hard, at least we had expedient stack to raid kek
calm dome
You know ...
Whats worst ?
Playing a weak spec but enjoy it
Playing a Meta strong spec but hating it
Everybody's different opinion
thin gate
yh assa gonna be my fun char atm
if i show up to raid with assa, my raidlead is gonna get a heartattack
stoic needle
now that I know all of the fight mechanics i kinda wanna try this week's CN as sin just to see how i can stack up
but i know its gonna be disappointing
thin gate
cn on Mythic?
calm dome
You need to sweat your hands and also have a ilvl 6 or 7 pts higher than the rest of the DPS to be mid-rank dps
thin gate
this guy must be the raid lead
stoic needle
My guild is a bunch of casuals
thin gate
hahahaha
as long as its fun to play
my guild is gimping atm
we hardstuck at 3th boss in mythic
dunno what happened
ppl playing crap atm
stoic needle
I might just go full meme and be sin only and level my boomie for when we need to be serious
calm dome
Is Boomie fun to play ?
stoic needle
I genuinely think it is
The rotation is very dynamic
Also I just like the thematics of balance
Playing melee is kinda unfun so far this expansion
Idk
thin gate
its just not fun to wipe for 8 hours straight every day
stoic needle
The mechanics are very anti melee and all of my favorite melee specs are utter trash garbage
calm dome
Thats what everybody say
stoic needle
Feels bad all around
thin gate
on such a basic boss i can call blind
if you wanna carry a raid atm go for shadow or affli warlock
stoic needle
My raid already has 3 of both 
calm dome
Shadow or mage fire
Both good in raid and M+
stoic needle
But no boomkin and no mm somehow
thin gate
then go Feral
feral is the asian assa version
and its #1 place in sim dps on 230 ilvl kek
seems to be legit i guess
dunno how it turns out ingame
calm dome
Feral was ranked worst than Sin not that far ago
stoic needle
Ye that's the other part of druid, you level one you get 4 specs
thin gate
it sucks still atm @calm dome but if u sim it on ILVL 230 its like 7900 dps with unholy 7850 or sum like that
stoic needle
Holy shit
calm dome
I mean . If we get like 50% haste or higher .. sin must be good right ??
stoic needle
Nope lol
balmy condor
that's not how that works
stoic needle
Someone posted a link to their blizzard forum post that summed it up nicely
We are supposed to be a DOT spec
thin gate
https://www.simulationcraft.org/reports/T26_Raid.html thats the sim, but thats not the actualy ingame dps
stoic needle
But with SND most of our damage is melee and instant poisons
stoic needle
So now we're just like... Idek what sin is supposed to be
If you play up the dots you just do zero fkin damage
thin gate
assa rn = deal damage with covenant auto attack and trinkets ^^
calm dome
Dots dont make enough damage to let us leave the target and do something else.
For sure we are too dependant of SnD because of the TOO high melee damages
calm dome
assa rn = deal damage with covenant auto attack and trinkets ^^
My DpS sources are often :
Melee
Garrot
Envenom
Rupt
Poison
Poison
Trinket
Trinket
ember oasis
I red the article
What article?
balmy condor
Someone earlier posted a link to a forum post
ember oasis
oh, I thought we got a legit published article about how bad they've fkd this up
balmy condor
Yeah no
We’re just doing hypotheticals
My vision for the spec, other peoples visions for the specs, a forum post
It’s been mostly just what we all want to see
But know won’t happen
stoic needle
All I want for Christmas is a sin rework 
ember oasis
Drop SnD and up the Dot damage again?
balmy condor
That’s basically the short version i guess yeah
ember oasis
let deadly stack up to 5 again so we build damage?
stoic needle
I'd deal with snd if our dots meant something
balmy condor
let deadly stack up to 5 again so we build damage?
That’s actually basically one of my talent ideas
Close at least
ember oasis
TBH if i didnt run the raid team this time around, I probably couldnt get a spot on it. Ive ran Sin almost forever because of the low APM so I can make callouts and be checking on people to be doing mechanics, and its worked decently well until this expansion. I legit cannot remember us ever being this bad.
prisma yoke
yeah, just up your raidleading game to have the same performance with a high apm class. or settle for doing lower dps, because you're leading and have a solid reason for being void from a top10 spot in the logs. 
it's the same in csgo, where an ingame-leader is not necessarily expected to be top-fragging
vestal wren
Hell no
dense cedar
@vestal wren but its so fun and interactive with the assassination playstyle
u apply it
then
??????
big dps
tough lantern
Agonizing poison made me mad
It’s a stupid talent
Went Exsang all the way in legion
slim briar
!guide
prisma monolithBOT
obsidian willow
Does anyone here raid in assassination? How is it like?
lavish isle
south drum
I do, but I only done the normal raid so far and I can top the meters there
rose condor
That's a reflection on your raid group maybe 🤔😉
south drum
Yeah that's the pug life for you. I'm not claiming it will be viable at higher difficulty
obsidian willow
Man i really hate this. I miss assassination so much.
fringe horizon
hello fellow masochists, does anybody know a streamer or anybody currently playing Sin in PvP ?
robust burrow
I love sin, but im feeling too weak atm. I´ll have to choose between outlaw or sublety but my only neuron can´t do more xD. What specialization is simpler orienting it to mythical plus?
obsidian willow
outlaw, i guess? that's what i did
switched to outlaw in prepatch cuz i know i do a lot of m+ but im super glad that outlaw is doing very well in raids right now so, that was something unexpected by me
still hoping for assassination to be good tho. i dont need it to be on top the the meters, even if it comes close to being in the middle, like where sub and outlaw are, i would probably switch
robust burrow
ok, I´ll try it. I need a new weapon (only daggers now). I was trying sublety but ím a bit lost in that rotation xD
tiny sentinel
Is dashing scoundrel or zoldyk better rn? Can’t seem to find an answer anywhere
obsidian willow
ok, I´ll try it. I need a new weapon (only daggers now). I was trying sublety bu...
sub is fun and not-so-hard once you get used to it
gonna need a lot of macros tho
iron orchid
Is dashing scoundrel or zoldyk better rn? Can’t seem to find an answer anywhere
Overall, Zoldyck is better because it allows you to perform well in ST as well as in cleave situation. Dashing Scoundrel is more ST-oriented. What I recommend would be to max out Zoldyck pants, and then get yourself a Dashing scoundrel gear, being able to switch between both depending on which fight you are going to take part in.
tiny sentinel
Awesome, thanks
hollow barn
I've also ran Sin because of the low APM, so I don't have to press so many buttons 
obsidian willow
if assassination just does a little bit better than it does now, im re-rolling back
whole folio
I would instantly switch to it
cuz the rotation and whole gameplay feels so good to me
stuck tartan
I switched back to it when I saw outlaw better than sub
whole folio
wqell I'm running outlaw now, and don't have any daggers
robust burrow
pvp is your friend. Get conquest points and buy buy buy... 😄
stoic idol
wqell I'm running outlaw now, and don't have any daggers
just get a pvp mace
stoic idol
yes u can
vestal wren
it is
fathom plume
Assassination is so fun. Do you guys have a PvP guide you could recommend?
stoic idol
and sub you need 1 dagger so 1 mace 1 dagger is all u need for either spec
stoic needle
and sub you need 1 dagger so 1 mace 1 dagger is all u need for either spec
Doing sub with a 1h in OH instead of a dagger isn't the best idea because of shadow techniques
stuck tartan
you can type !oh in <#316923682607857685> to get information about offhand weapo...
Thanks! didnt know
slender badger
servers up'
balmy condor
Want them to add agonizing back?
You literally saw what I wanted xD
strange python
has anyone tried dashing scoundrel? is it fun to play?
I thought it might be interesting because of the increased energy regen.
If I run dashing, should I prio crit higher as a secondary stat?
fml i spent so many hours grinding that dungeon and get it in my vault this week
balmy condor
216 tho pretty gud
strange python
ya it looks like a bit more damage then mine
and trinkets are hard af to find, so it would probs be worth it to go for it over shoulders
good call
balmy condor
If I run dashing, should I prio crit higher as a secondary stat?
Stat weight doesn’t change much, but you should keep top gearing
chilly spear
There is no better sim setting for m+ than dungeon slice, correct?
karmic flame
when night stalker on assassination gets nerfed 😦
balmy condor
There is no better sim setting for m+ than dungeon slice, correct?
You could do a sim for like 5 targets 2 minutes-ish
But on sin especially it’s a bit weird cause the restealths matter
So I would just dungeonslice
karmic flame
https://puu.sh/GZYAj/ece7a96a9e.png I call this dumb luck. I spammed heroics trying to get this to no avail. Do a single mythic 2 and open my chest. I hate this game some times.
karmic flame
whats better that or phial?
strange python
woops
iron orchid
Where's the sin equipment set @said 😢
balmy condor
whats better that or phial?
Phial sims higher iirc
strange python
187 was 764
ya i just use that one because good trinks are hard to come by i guess
and i think it might help with target uptime
when dodging around and stuff, and simmed higher then the card thing
karmic flame
Well hopefully assassin gets the buffs it needs.
prime flame
Hey I'm new to the game any tips on what I should be doing after the Shadow lands campaign. What my rotation should be. Or just how not to be bad lol
prisma monolithBOT
balmy condor
Those are a good starting point
Generally after the campaign you’re looking for gear upgrades and “end game” content. The 3 main ones being mythic+, the infinite scaling dungeon system, raiding, and pvp
Some people focus on getting a bunch of collectibles like mounts and pets and stuff as well
Really depends on what you want to do
prime flame
Thank you kind stranger
balmy condor
My pleasure
stuck tartan
Idk if stance macros work on blindside, tbh
sand otter
Vault blessed the naro
balmy condor
!bs
prisma monolithBOT
Macroing Ambush to Mutilate only works with the use of a addon.
It comes with the downside that it often requires multiple key presss.
Suggested addon to use(Gnome Sequencer):http://tiny.cc/mxb6tz
Showcase Video: #assassination message
strange python
Best slot to craft Dashing Scoundrel? edit: found it, feet.
stoic needle
i'll take your trinkets :p
stuck tartan
same
stuck tartan
the first hc dungeon I did got the boe dagger on a pull
but trinkets? never heard of them
i got decanter like three times on hc, and nothing more lol
stoic needle
i was using 184 flayedwing and decanter before this
stuck tartan
how do u find shadowstrike spam smooth?
stuck tartan
dense cedar
i'd say sin is the most smooth
lament dove
I played crit build at the end of BfA, not haste, and energy regen still felt like 10 times faster than now... I just don't get how it can be so slow
stuck tartan
its literally the slower pace spec
dense cedar
u get ur combo points
stoic needle
I like the pace of sin
dense cedar
then u wait
balmy condor
Y’all BFA babies got spoiled by memory and iris
stuck tartan
ofc u dont spam buttons like sub or outlaw
stoic needle
It just needs to do damage
lament dove
I played sin for 14 years, this is the first expansion it feels bad
balmy condor
Feels better to me than it did start of bfa
lament dove
maybe all the changes to all specs, but assa feels like some bad joke now compared to the other specs
spice spire
^
lament dove
it sure doesn't feel like it
balmy condor
antorus was SLIGHTLY faster
because of mostly gear
but this is the fastest sin has started off an expansion
in like
many many many years
lament dove
it feels like super slow, I dunno what to say
maybe the changes to the game
it's like left behind
balmy condor
and honestly, that might be placebo from not doing damage
or it might be because you aren't geared as much as this time in bfa/legion
stuck tartan
you guys remember things weird
balmy condor
the speed improves with time as you get gear
start of expansions are always like this
stoic needle
I'm praying that we get another aura buff or tweaks in 9.1 and some cool tier sets
balmy condor
we all are
dense cedar
instead of a tier set, Sin will have a tear set @stoic needle
stoic needle
Idk why but even outlaw just isn't doing it for me anymore
stuck tartan
instead of a tier set, Sin will have a tear set <@!502859708504342538>
we are a set of individuals crying, we already have that
stuck tartan
sin but with bigger numbers
quiet junco
When I sim zol vs doom...zol sims higher st wise for me -__- really liked idea of doomblade but guess its not worth it
dense cedar
only issue with feral is people will probs invite u to groups thinking ur balance lol
the sneaky trick of course is to be astal affinity and only show up to them as boomy
quiet junco
dashing scoundrel is simming lower than zol on st for me too.
Should I just stay with zol and upgrade or is there some elite stuff idk
vestal wren
dashing scoundrel is simming lower than zol on st for me too.
Should I just stay...
possibly gear related
oblique kiln
!bis
prisma monolithBOT
Whispyrs Bis list: http://tiny.cc/76r5tz
opaque mauve
Any whispers of more tuning once the wf race is over ? I miss sin !
balmy condor
what about me?
opaque mauve
Lol
main forge
No buffs for Christmas
if we brought raid buffs/utility or some uniqueness.... I might understand it
balmy condor
the uniqueness we bring is being the only rogue
not every day you see yellow on the raid frame
sand otter
fact
So its time for rank 1 leggo for sin
wonder what im going to craft
HMMMMMMMMMMMMM
balmy condor
finality and celerity are good options depending on what build you're going
sin has 2 builds, like in legion
instead of poison and bleed though
its subtlety and outlaw
sand otter
i have Cel though
and im going 4to craft a leggo for PvP i think
i would enjoy learning Sub but i dont have any daggers, and its a pain
dark arrow
Question, on Whispyrs Bis List it says to use the feet legendary. Other guides suggest the pants. Which one is actually better?
balmy condor
you can't craft dashing on legs
dark arrow
no but i'd assume the other guide authors say the pants is worth having over boots with dashing.
other wise they would have the boots listed as the legendary to use
balmy condor
I don't think I understand the question
the best legendary (even though there are very close contenders) in that list
is dashing
dashing doesn't go on legs
its feet/back
and given the nature of 233 cloak dropping from raid
that makes the feet better
grizzled bough
dark arrow
these guides say the best is Zoldyck Insignia on pants.
https://www.wowhead.com/guides/assassination-rogue-best-legendaries-shadowlands
https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-best-legendaries-shadowlands
balmy condor
@grizzled bough I have mute powers ;)
yes, zoldyck is the overall BiS recommendation
that's due to dashing losing a lot of value in aoe, such as m+
it does however outperform in single target
you'll find that the dungeonslice sims on the second page of that spreadsheet show zoldyck, and that is on the legs
dark arrow
so i'm a guy who only does mythics and raids. I don't pvp, but I strive to have the bis gear and hit my rotation with near perfection to do max dmg assassination can offer (i'm stubbornly staying with this spec because I love it so much). So your saying in my situation the boots are the best to use?
balmy condor
no, you would craft zoldyck first as an overall pick
dark arrow
ok. Thats what I was trying to figure out. was looking at these other guides then I saw your bis list appear in the chat here so I looked at that and got confused.
balmy condor
yeah, the first page is a pure single target bis
sand otter
balmy condor
its slightly better than trash
echo gust
showing at midtier in warcraftlogs
stuck tartan
trash is useful
stuck tartan
sin CANT
balmy condor
if you're looking at mythic parses
that's still mega skewed
because there's only 11 sin logs
sand otter
they look good because godlike players
stuck tartan
I expected literally just 2
no, no
they're there
they dont look good
they atleast exist
ember oasis
Anyone know this guys rotation? hes chunking for decent numbers according to logs
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/character/kr/하이잘/peen#
balmy condor
not quite sure what you mean by that
that's just a regular old rotation
he's just very geared, and he's playing well
balmy condor
yeah being 207 when most of the community is getting into the 200's definitely helps make you look like a big boy XD
steep badger
whisp are we good yet
balmy condor
no
somber thistle
Would it be best to switch to dreamweaver for the 2x potency conduits?
until the rest are unlocked in Niya
hazy iron
You can sim it in top gear i think
low girder
you can. sim it but probably not. grove invigoration is better than any conduit, generally
for us at least
somber thistle
That's what I was thinking
balmy condor
yep yep, niya for life
calm dome
upgrade my Zoldyck leg to rank 3 or craft a new Outlaw lego and try this not too funny spec ...
Thats my dilemma
somber thistle
sin for life, made rank 4 zoldyck today
calm dome
GG !!
balmy condor
I don't have snd in my rework ;)
fallen slate
!bis
prisma monolithBOT
Whispyrs Bis list: http://tiny.cc/76r5tz
dim yacht
so not strictly sin rogue related, but does anyone know with the venari item that upgrades a random conduit, can it give conduits that otherwise dont have a drop source? like, can you go above 200 for revebration etc
dim yacht
yes but i mean
theres no drop source for above 200
so whats the cap? 233 on everything?
dim yacht
good to know
sinful island
!bis
prisma monolithBOT
Whispyrs Bis list: http://tiny.cc/76r5tz
charred raptor
Just did a layer 8 torghast on Mut and it really didn't feel bad at all
I hope that it gets a little numerical love
strange python
Hi everyone!
Noob here,
Between assassination and subtlety, what would be the best rogue spec for 2vs2 arenas combo with a mistweaver monk partner?
astral mirage
ok is haste gear almost non-existent? or am i just super unlucky . i've just opened the great vault and not ONE item choice has haste on it... been sod out of luck all last week as well. getting higher ilvl gear..but losing all the haste in the process 😦
balmy condor
Hi everyone!
Noob here,
Between assassination and subtlety, what would be the ...
Generally sub is always better in pvp
balmy condor
ok is haste gear almost non-existent? or am i just super unlucky . i've just ope...
There’s plenty of haste gear, I actually can’t get rid of it
balmy condor
Denathrius ring is pretty solid as well
Pvp gear doesn’t have a lot of haste from what I hear
vestal wren
Generally sub is always better in pvp
like it was in bfa, when blizz needed to buff it by 5% to be even played
balmy condor
I think a lot of the pvp meta is reflective of the pve meta. Lot of people just will play the same spec in both places and make it work since the kits are kinda similar
vestal wren
assassination did play very similar to pve in pvp
sub not rly because of the focus on control
but i don't know a lot about the pvp meta, so pls correct me if i am wrong
balmy condor
I don’t really have a depth of knowledge either
alpine garden
Does anyone know of any replacements for rogue power bars? Trying Aura frames but there's a bug so I can't enter any list items to remove all the buffs I have which makes tracking stuff interesting
quaint dragon
!stats
prisma monolithBOT
**Shadowlands: ** Haste > Versatility => Critical Strike => Mastery
unborn smelt
!guide
prisma monolithBOT
unborn smelt
which one is the more up to date guide?
alpine garden
!bis
prisma monolithBOT
Whispyrs Bis list: http://tiny.cc/76r5tz
gleaming eagle
ive been pvping a lot on my sin but i think sub is just better because of the burst
and 2 charges of shadow step
the only thing that i find sin is better than sub in pvp is during non stealth fight
you will definitely beat sub
if the sub failed to open on you and he gets revealed
sub will lose 8/10 fight if both specs revealed ( non stealth fight ) considering they are both equal ilvl gear of course
dense hearth
Does anyone know how much dmg the assa cheese oneshot does after pvp nerfs? The shiv-MA-envenom one
gleaming eagle
pretty sure you also have to be kyrian to take huge advantage for that combo
dense hearth
How come?
gleaming eagle
to maximize envenom dmg
the people that i know that tried that cheese plays kyrian
not sure if its still strong now since they did get nerfed
sub rogues still one shotting people though
honestly you better off playing sub rogue if you want to do stealth burst combo
thats what they are good for
cause cold blood is stun and damage into 1
dense hearth
Even if it got 25% nefed its still a good cheese oneshot 👀
gleaming eagle
yeah but you would be doing more effective stealth burst one shot on sub
cause of cold blood
the only way sin is better than sub in pvp is if you reveal sub
and he didn't get to use the cold blood cheap shot combo
non stealth fight 1v1 sin would win
not sure about outlaw but im guessing sin would win that 1 too if both are revealed
dense hearth
Who cares who wins 1v1, Just asking if anyone has tested it post nerf :)
alpine garden
They seem to have bugged vendetta with subterfuge?
gleaming eagle
how so ?
alpine garden
if you use vendetta from stealth you unstealth and can't use any stealth abilities
gleaming eagle
was wondering about this before, i heard theres a macro that doesn't break your stealth while casting vendetta
dense hearth
Do you have a vendetta macro which uses trinket? Thought it didnt destealth u
stoic needle
Idk what to do with this soul ash.... Do I craft zoldyck and pray for buffs, craft finality and give sub a 2nd shot, or keep upgrading celerity? 
sleek otter
Zoldyck is just overall better in AoE situations and single target, given the flexability of the legendary, I would get Zoldyck specifically if you continue staying assassination. Assassination buffs are bound to come but I wouldn't corss your fingers yet since we haven't had any updates yet
jagged axle
had a dream sin got a 10% dmg buff overall and was still shit
sleek otter
I was thinking, what if sin had that one Torghast spell "Ambush applies a 5 point rupture"
I honestly don't think that'd be super op, would actually make Blindside good
and solve some of assassination's energy problems
little arrow
!stats
prisma monolithBOT
**Shadowlands: ** Haste > Versatility => Critical Strike => Mastery
carmine sierra
dense hearth
Has one cheesy oneshot, other than that its rather sub par
You can still make it work tho
dusk pier
Can i play assasination in raids and not lose out too much
stoic needle
No
deft patio
Hello is there any Weakaura for Lady Inerva Darkvein Anima Containers so we know when to use them? HC Version
stuck tartan
https://www.icy-veins.com/forums/topic/55401-castle-nathria-week-2-dps-log-rankings-for-mythic-and-heroic/ wtf all percentiles
lament wyvern
wait...we're....not bad?
balmy condor
We are
stuck tartan
We are
lament wyvern
whats with sin outperforming sub in mythic all % then? Has that always been the case?
low numbers for logs?
gleaming eagle
interesting data
i assume is because the higher their hp the better the dots get fleshed out
still not that great though
rose condor
middle of the pack would certainly not be the end of the world though 🙂
balmy condor
It’s a mixture of only good sin rogues still playing sin, vs meta players players sub
As well as sin as a progression spec just being pretty okay
Vs sub uptime and cooldown usage
stuck tartan
The moment they get better on bosses, if our damage is the same, we're going back to the bottom
sleek otter
Maybe we will see a mini rework, or something
I dunno, would be cool to actually feel like Im doing something for something
stuck tartan
Maybe buffs on 9.1
sleek otter
Will see
I think Im gonna switch specs temp even tho Ive played the same spec for 8 years
rose condor
hold off until mythic race is finished, there might be a tuning pass after that (?)
sleek otter
Yea me 2
I remember a bug where Venomous Wounds procced 2 times in a row per proc. Ahhhh was fun to see everyone die while in stealth
rose condor
hahah 😄
sleek otter
this was when it did extra damage when it procced
north basin
could assas burn denatrius mythic better than other classes?
stuck tartan
doubt
balmy condor
Not really
It’s not quite enough base damage to make the execute worth much
Might as well take an arms warrior for the same reason
stuck tartan
thats exactly why some arms warrior are on the race
balmy condor
They’re just stronger in execute, and overall, and bring a rally
north basin
i dont ask if overall xD obvious we are not there in terms of damage
tulip grove
hi guys, sorry to butt in mid convo. what haste % should we be aiming for currently? i still feel energy starved at 17percent
north basin
purely 30% to zERO
balmy condor
hi guys, sorry to butt in mid convo. what haste % should we be aiming for curren...
We don’t have any haste breakpoints
balmy condor
purely 30% to zERO
You wouldn’t bring a class purely for 30% to 0, and like we already said, sin isn’t strong enough baseline to make that worth it
tulip grove
We don’t have any haste breakpoints
thanks, so stack as much as possible?
balmy condor
Yep
tulip grove
thank you whispyr
stuck tartan
Yeah, our damage scales pretty good with haste
balmy condor
Np homie
tulip grove
also is ther an add on to show our bleeds above the target instead of just under the npcs nameplate?
balmy condor
I use plater
As a nameplate addon
Can yoink the profile there
If you want to try it
tulip grove
smashing thanks again mate
balmy condor
Np
primal zinc
ffs
life is f...ing unfair
got droped from a raiding guild with 90+ hc logs cos asassins dont pump as mush as dks and spriest
dense hearth
Find a more casual guild if you are set on playing a weak spec
primal zinc
and they said i was underperforming
casual?
weak spec?
are you kidding?
they wiped 40+ times at kael thas
and when i got there with cripling and kidneys and cheap shots
i saved the day
dense hearth
:)
primal zinc
infusers were killing them
and thats the thank you?
we amde progress now f off?
any1 here from ravencrest alliance recruiting for players?
grand wadi
It's rarely about utility and always about numbers in my experiences. I've done the same but was told no since I was assassin and not a dps God. Never mind I could kick everything I could better than anyone else. This was back in Draenor.
But I'm also a cynical old bat so...
dense hearth
I suppose its rational since you could always find an outlaw rogue with Just as much utility while pulling better numbers
primal zinc
why do i have to change when the community is f...ed up?
i dont ACCEPT this
i refuse to ppl acting like hardcore when they are softcore raiders
and not even in 1500th spot in the world
its just stupid
dense hearth
Easier to point fingers than to improve and move on
grand wadi
That's the mentality, though. Act hard-core and you're magically hard-core. It's why I stopped raiding, really.
dense hearth
I assume you are not parsing high if you are being kicked for underperforming
primal zinc
since i like it and since it exists why doesnt blizz remove all dead speccs and make 3 in total...tank dps healers all unique
no classes
balmy condor
This isn’t the channel to air out your woes raiding
dense hearth
Whats your rogues name
primal zinc
sec
dense hearth
You dont know it by heart?
primal zinc
no i just dont wish to upload my logs here
and btw the rest of the hc is not uploaded
i will link you when they do
primal zinc
i w8 for them to upload
balmy condor
:) friendly reminder that we’re moving on
oblique pewter
yeah lets move on
I wanna discuss about assass
who seemed pretty decent today
which*
balmy condor
It seems to be doing a lot better in mythic than most were expecting
oblique pewter
in raid aswell
balmy condor
But I think logs are still pretty volatile
Well that’s what I mean
In dungeons is not great
balmy condor
We’ll see how the logs shake out
dense hearth
Yeah not the best sample size unfortunately
oblique pewter
with more haste stacking we'll get closer
balmy condor
At the end
oblique pewter
balmy condor
Sub actually pulls ahead with gear, sim wise
stuck tartan
that word scares me
dense hearth
I have faith that assa Will do ok in healer dps 2's
oblique pewter
it's bad rn?
dense hearth
Once they get decent dmg the cheesy onetap might pop off
oblique pewter
I didn't play pvp yet
dense hearth
Yeah its kinda dog
oblique pewter
I heard that the envenoms were pretty good
dense hearth
But you can shiv-vanish-envenom for 15k+
oblique pewter
and anyway it's probly always better than sub in 3s
dense hearth
Idk rogues in 3's atm are more or less stun bots outside of 3min cd
Which is kinda subs thing
oblique pewter
yep
dense hearth
Having to use vansih for burst also makes it super gimicky
dense hearth
But Just for pushing 2100 its good enough
fleet whale
so the third ranked sin rogue for heroic sludgefist...
is using a EP, Nightstalker, MFD, and MA leggo build
i guess the build is centered around getting two straight big envenom crits in opener
fleet whale
same rogue uses same build for darkvein too
balmy condor
Cringe
sand otter
fleet whale
idk, he was ranked 9th of all sin rogues in darkvein too
i guess he's just messing around with unorthodox builds
i just can't see how you can play sin without vigor though atm
grand wadi
I've been using MFD cause I personally like the synergy in my playstyle with using it with SnD before opening but I think it's in the unorthodox category?
sleek otter
Honestly if they do give us more damage and we start seeing more cheesy 1 shot builds, they gonna nerf tf out of nightstalker more than what it is already
which I do agree with, I prefer to just have overall good damage instead of having to cheese to 1 shot
grand wadi
Sustained is better than a big blow out with not much after, in my opinion.
sleek otter
MYTHIC CLEAR BBY
stuck tartan
who
sleek otter
limit
stuck tartan
do u like energy or execute phases
fleet whale
Limit world first
echo gust
i feel a buff coming after christmas
sinful island
you can go 1st dps at normal Denathrius having 205ilvl and no unhloy/boomkin in group xD
can confirm
fleet whale
they won't buff again, changes won't come till 9.1
sleek otter
U dunno dat 😦
fleet whale
blizz very rarely buffs a spec twice in the same tier
unless if there is some odd bug/interaction found
(FoK in t21)
remote oriole
Why can't i sim a lego? Tells me to select more, so I do, nothing changes
balmy condor
are you selecting an off piece to replace your equipped legendary
remote oriole
For one of them yes.. simming a ring 210 (currently have 190) and 210 shoulders
balmy condor
you just linked to a blank topgear
balmy condor
simc works then
obsidian gate
what legendary for pvp assa ?
balmy condor
MA
obsidian gate
i have ma and its not good you are not in stealth liek 90% of the game
ionic hemlock
lol
I got told that math has nothing to do with APIs and simming. 
I mean not directly its not like we're trying to figure it out to make sure the sim is correct but to say it has nothing to do with it, is a unique perspective.
balmy condor
huh?
ionic hemlock
I don't know. My brain is at capacity today.
balmy condor
APL btw, not API
ionic hemlock
That
I am just trying to get my last 3 points in leatherworking. I regret not taking engineering as a rogue but I like all my rare ZG and Vanilla recipes
quasi scroll
strange python
Couldn’t see it in the pins, do we go Zoldyck’s on the feet or legs?
balmy condor
legs
strange python
Ty! 😀
velvet ridge
when is assassination going to viable for top tier raiding again?
balmy condor
I would ask your nearest psychic
karmic tusk
Probably never bc Blizz hates rogues
mortal scaffold
I'm starting to think Doomblade might actually be the best for PvP?
im too scared to spend ash to find out
balmy condor
I heard it was okay
mortal scaffold
zoldyck makes it harder for them to recover
but it only ever applies at 30% health
doomblade applies always
balmy condor
current meta isn't really a "outdamage the heal" type thing
its "nuke X and win"
so from what I understand, MA for the big burst > rotting
iron kindle
calm dome
!guide
prisma monolithBOT
gleaming eagle
yea pally is just much better than sin
grim mason
damn we couldn't change the ravenhodlt logo to make it look more festive for the Holiday 😦
who still playing Sin?
balmy condor
uh
like 200 people
all the CF's have santa hats
well
except the losers, like @arctic walrus
arctic walrus
subtle imp
misty forge
I like night fae for sin
calm heart
Fae
steel ridge
@balmy condor i have an sin friend who needs some clarification regarding sims
steel ridge
he is not a discord guy
balmy condor
already don't like him
balmy condor
sure
steel ridge
and he is wondering why the damage spread is sooooo off the sim
thats his reference sim that is somewhat the same
and he doesnt get why the sim is sooooo much different
balmy condor
cause he's rupturing twice as much as the sim
and for some reason not casting envenom
hold on wtf
steel ridge
yeah its weird
steel ridge
the sim values deadly poison super high, but what can you do wrong?
round rover
or Sepsis
steel ridge
12 times
steel ridge
the log says he shivved 12 times
balmy condor
I keep forgetting it doesn't show in casts for some reason
round rover
oh i'm looking at the second link like a nob
balmy condor
btw I'm a little offended that I simmed all the ambush/mut combinations and this dude spamming ambushes like no tomorrow
uhhhhh
okay
so quick question
uncut schooner
steel ridge
cause he just switched for this week, but it didnt change the damage spread
balmy condor
really
steel ridge
AH
i think we have something
the raidbots result adds poison procc and dot together
the log doesnt
steel ridge
that clears alot
balmy condor
well you can go to hungering and cut it to 5 min
if you'd like
the main thing that I find weird, is envenom vs rupture
everything else is fine, and not really concerning
its the fact that his rupture uptime is bad, but still somehow pumping way harder than it should
hm
he's not really making use of shiv windows
steel ridge
his rupture uptime is 96%
steel ridge
oaky
balmy condor
its mostly the shivs I think
steel ridge
okay, i just ordered him to play the dummy for 5 minutes
this is probably just an execution thing
shy dust
balmy condor
looking at hungering, he's shiving before sepsis, shiving into rupture, shiving into 0 envenoms in the window
that's why the envenom is weird
feels shiv to me
steel ridge
yeah he has 12 and should have 15-16
balmy condor
yeah, but he's also just not doing anything with them
steel ridge
i have run sin in torghast a few times