assassination

[balmy condor]

And that’s not exaggeration

We lose to basically everything

[finite oxide]

sin rogue with scaling: https://i.redd.it/jrb4e1wr9ll31.png

[calm dome]

Exept 1v1 with some classes

[balmy condor]

Like what

Maybe a fury warrior

But players of equal skill?

Not happening

[calm dome]

Warlock
Mage
Dk
Pal ( ret )

[balmy condor]

A MAGE

You think

We beat any mage spec?

[calm dome]

Mostly fire

[swift sky]

bro all the specs u listed

[calm dome]

I pvp a lot

[swift sky]

or classes

beat sin hard

[patent cloud]

[balmy condor]

Bruh

[swift sky]

yea sin is decent in pvp

[calm dome]

Guys

[swift sky]

but u were talking pve

[balmy condor]

Are we still talking about raids

I’m so lost

[calm dome]

@balmy condor you just said " we loose at everything " so I did open the PvP topic because I do have good results and feeling doing that

[balmy condor]

Yes

We lose at everything in PvE

Cause that’s what you linked

[swift sky]

im pretty sure he said it regarding what u said about your raid

[balmy condor]

Couple days ago you posted a details of a dungeon

And said we’re not dead

And today you posted that you were top in a raid

[swift sky]

lmao whisp keeping track of everything going in this channel

[balmy condor]

And said we’re not dead

And I’m telling you

We’re dead

[magic light]

for now

[balmy condor]

Not very difficult tbh

[swift sky]

dead channel

[calm dome]

@balmy condor @swift sky Just wanna make something clear. I dont want argue with you .
I am not being arrogant , I just explaining mt feeling about me playing sin every day for hours

[swift sky]

[stoic needle]

dare i try outlaw....?

[magic light]

dead channel for dead spec

[magic light]

just go/stay sub tbh

[stoic needle]

I don't enjoy playing sub

[finite oxide]

outlaw's top rogue spec in nathria it seems

[swift sky]

my dude tallac if you are enjoying sin by all means keep going at it, it’s just it isn’t strong as you said that’s all

[stoic needle]

i had fun tonight raiding as sin, but i was literally below our VDH tank on most fights

[calm dome]

I am totally aware about that

[stoic needle]

except for xy'mox

[balmy condor]

I don’t think you’re arrogant, I just think you’re wrong, because your experience of good specs and bad specs is skewed by playing with people who can’t use good specs well enough to make the difference apparent. If you’re enjoying sin, and it’s working for you, I’m overjoyed. But don’t imply that we’re fine, cause we’re not, we’re very weak

[hollow hawk]

on hungering the number 1 sin parce is equivalent to the 1331 fire mage parce

[magic light]

as much as i adore sin as a spec, fighting an uphill battle the steepness of a brick wall in the meters would kill that fun in an instant

[somber bison]

so what average numbers are we talking for lets say, an 7-8 @balmy condor

[balmy condor]

For sin?

[somber bison]

no, for other classes

[balmy condor]

Oh

[stoic needle]

it sucks really hard working your ass off to multidot everything and still do less dps than a tank

[somber bison]

like what would decent be, generally speaking

[balmy condor]

I think 4k for a pug is pretty good

But like 3.7ish probably fine

Depending on how slow your tank goes

It’s kinda really hard to tell what “good” is in keys

[somber bison]

depends on key i get it

[balmy condor]

Well not only that

A tank pulling 3 at a time

Sub rogue won’t do shit

But if they pull like 10 and everyone pops off

Gonna be way higher

[calm dome]

@balmy condor which spec are you enjoying the most to play ? Most of the time , mike really having fun with it . Not talking about being the most efficient ever

[balmy condor]

I’m enjoying sub the most

Because I don’t enjoy outlaw

[finite oxide]

is there something wrong with outlaw? It's the only one I haven't played since the legion overhaul

[balmy condor]

And I don’t enjoy sin because it’s bad and that’s important to me

Also feels really bad in dungeons

[calm dome]

LoL so you like Sub by default.
Cause Sin is weak and Outlaw not your style

[balmy condor]

Yup

That’s my life

[calm dome]

But do you having fun playing sub ?

[balmy condor]

Yeah

[fleet whale]

Sin will be good in pvp post buff

[hollow hawk]

For me RtB just feels bad

[magic light]

sub has more stable gameplay than outlaw, but outlaw is fun if you like variables

[balmy condor]

Sub single target is actually pretty unstable

[calm dome]

@balmy condor I am asking that because I dont really like Outlaw style , and Sub to me is juste 3 click buttons during SD burst windows.
I wanna play Rogue but dont know what to do with specs

[magic light]

eh for the most part its relatively predictable

[balmy condor]

Well are you having fun with sin?

It’s working for you

[calm dome]

I do

[balmy condor]

So if you’re having fun

[magic light]

main variable is just how many combo points the next shadowstrike does

[balmy condor]

Keep doing that

[fleet whale]

just stay sin, the 5% buff will at least make it better for more casual progression guilds

[hollow hawk]

I think whispyr doesnt like you making this false idea that sin is doing just fine and isnt inherently flawed atm

[finite oxide]

I'm in a casual progression guild and it is not going to be good enough

[fleet whale]

i mean there were sub rogues who killed Mythic N'zoth

[magic light]

i'd honestly advise anyone to get a comfortable relationship with at least two of the rogue specs in situations like this one; it's one of the main benefits of being a pure dps class

unless numbers really dont matter in your guild in particular

[quasi halo]

^ you’re not being optimal if you only know how to play one spec

[hollow hawk]

sin and sub have always been my go to but Id be willing to go outlaw if I felt it was actually the best spec

I mean they have the best effects to me atleast

[calm dome]

I like the " linear " and constant damage of the Sin .
The idea of putting dots / bleeds to many people
And controling crowds.
Thats whats I like in the Sin Spec
Even if I know that Mathematicly we are the worst , our energy regen if weak, our CP system is weird and slow , pur AOE is garbage and our last lalent are dog sh*t

[fleet whale]

it's really low crit that makes sin feel sluggish

get it to like the 30% range, then it will feel alright

[hollow hawk]

Its totally fine to like the spec you play but when you say stuff like this its just disingenuous feeling

[balmy condor]

I generally am not a fan of misleading statements yes :)

[calm dome]

@hollow hawk my goal was to spray hope lol even If I do not disagree with Whisp

[fleet whale]

it is a flawed spec especially in aoe

but i think it could shine in pvp esp post buff

and esp since i think sub is gonna get hit hard in pvp

[hollow hawk]

I feel like instead of hope its more effective to spray some aggression (not literally) let blizzard knows it feel unacceptable for sin to be in the state its in

[quasi halo]

If they tune subs burst damage which relies completely on a covenant ability and a trinket, then they should also tune the other classes who can global an opponent in almost the same amount of time.

[fleet whale]

i mean it's possible that the buff COULD, i'm not saying it will, will make it a little closer to sub's performance in castle nathria

considering sub is actually below average now for the raid

[calm dome]

I am going to roll Mage Fire 🤐

[magic light]

fire mage isnt that good either is it

its the best mage spec currently but

[balmy condor]

It’s good in m+ from what I saw

[somber bison]

yeah it rolls in m+

[calm dome]

@balmy condor quick question

[balmy condor]

Yup

[calm dome]

The 15th there is Hotfixes partch and the 5% buff .
If things stay like this . No more buff for heroic week .
Will it be an other moment where buff and nerf will be given ?
Like a turning point in the season when Blizzard will make some " big " changes again ?

[balmy condor]

9.1

There could be some more changes during next week

With mythic releasing

There’s a chance that blizzard decides that there’s still outliers

And hands out a couple more % or takes away a couple %

But the 15th changes are pretty much “the tuning” that you’ll see until next patch

[calm dome]

Just checked for 9.1
Seems like around March

[balmy condor]

Yeah, couple months

[calm dome]

Thanks one again for your answer

[balmy condor]

No problem, it’s what I’m here for after all

[calm dome]

Hehe

Dont know what to do with my rogue tbh

Got my lego ( Doomblade ) since day one
Got Ma and Zoldick and the Vanish one
Got decent gear
Got soûl ashes cap

[finite oxide]

I'd be less stressed about this situation if there weren't leggos tbh

[magic light]

either the above, reroll, or just be fine with underperforming relative to most others

[finite oxide]

I hate having to commit to a spec

because of this exact situation I feel like I wasted a massive amount of soul ash on zoldyck

[magic light]

it will very likely be useful once sin becomes viable

think of it as a future investment instead of a waste

though you'll still need a different lego for a different spec, but having two isnt a big deal

[calm dome]

Going to try Sub till next reset next week .
Se how it feel with the 5% ( am not expecting miracles tho )
And probably reroll lol

Whats the % of haste we need at max for Sin ?

[balmy condor]

Pretty much as much as you can get

[calm dome]

30% would be decent ?

[fleet whale]

30% haste would be difficult to get at these gear levels

[calm dome]

Agree

!sims

[prisma monolith]

Simulations:
Herodamage: https://www.herodamage.com/rogue/
Bloodmallet: https://bloodmallet.com/index.html

[strange python]

i've been collecting haste gear, but all the stats are all over the place in the sets

gonna take awhile before i even get to try with lots of haste

still bad for me as pvp main tho, can't compete with the burst

its crazy pallys are hitting harder than sin

[plain onyx]

Btw, when is the 5% buff gonna be active ?

[balmy condor]

Tuesday for na, Wednesday for eu

With weekly restarts

[hybrid crystal]

oh, the restart yesterday didn't count as a regional restart?

haha thought it did 😄

[balmy condor]

Nope

[fleet whale]

so i have an idea for assassination:

Turn it into the much requested ranged rogue spec!

/s

[low girder]

if they make a ranged rogue spec i'm rerolling

[balmy condor]

Give me one reason to not delete you varo

[low girder]

(i know you were joking)

[balmy condor]

I’m kidding @fleet whale Id never delete you

[fleet whale]

i mean the ironic thing is

[balmy condor]

After asking you

[fleet whale]

whatever a ranged rogue spec would be

[balmy condor]

I wouldn’t ask :>

[fleet whale]

it would likely be the most popular for raiding lol

[balmy condor]

Just tune it to current sin

No one would play it

[fleet whale]

i mean i've heard the sub channel takes that sin is already half ranged apparently

[balmy condor]

Every now and then

It’s actually been not bad

Just have to repeat the same answer every 5 minutes

[fleet whale]

well yeah, cause they all saw the logs so far

and sub is now mediocre for nathria for log rankings lol

so they'll jump ship to outlaw

[low girder]

that's why i'd reroll

lol

[finite oxide]

speaking of jumping ship, I tried outlaw for the first time since it was called Combat and it feels aggressively annoying to learn moreso than any spec I've ever played before and now I feel stuck between it and sub

I don't really like either of those specs but I've at least already learned sub...but it's either choose one or get the bench 🤔

[granite forum]

Can someone take a look at my buddies log for a fight

hes brand new, and I have no idea how to play assass

It's really bad :x

[balmy condor]

Mhmm

[granite forum]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/8YvtCGrABwzTbQpj/#fight=1&type=damage-done&source=11

[barren linden]

well if he doesnt deal any damage, he is playing it the right way

[strange python]

i say replace sub with some kind of spellblade

sub has no personality

[balmy condor]

Looks like he’s not casting shiv

[strange python]

or identity

[balmy condor]

And the uptimes are a little weird

[strange python]

i think the outlaw combos are kinda fun

dual speccing is awesome

[barren linden]

did you not cast vendetta or is it not shown in there?

*he

[balmy condor]

He cast vendetta twice

Missed a cast

Missed a cast of sepsis and vanish too

0 shivs is kinda really disgusting tho

[granite forum]

What do you mean by missed

Like he pressed it late?

[balmy condor]

It’s a 5 minute fight, so I’m expecting to see vendetta/vanish/sepsis in opener

And then pretty much on cooldown

So vendetta/vanish in opener, then at 2min, then at 4min

For 3

Sepsis at opener, 1:30, 3, 4:30, for 4 casts

[granite forum]

o ok

[balmy condor]

And he cast vendetta/vanish twice

And sepsis 3 times

[granite forum]

That was his first time ever fighting in a raid, he did a bit better today

Could you look at this one too?

[balmy condor]

Mhm

[granite forum]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/pbW2KrgGQ1FvfH6J/#fight=10&type=damage-done&source=15

[balmy condor]

Arguably worse

[barren linden]

still no shiv

[balmy condor]

Opener is objectively worse this time

Still missing a vendetta cast

But this time with only 1 vanish

Still no shiv

Well hold on

Shiv is doing damage

But it’s not being cast

What

Either way, it says 8 hits of shiv, which wouldn’t be enough

So uh

More shiv :)

Uptimes could be improved, specifically with slice and garrote

He seems pretty timid though, there some good portions of downtime, where I assume he’s just doing mechanics

He’s not wasting energy or cp too badly though, so that’s good

Just needs to to work on his cooldown usage and opener, and keep up the work on his general rotation

[barren linden]

is using Mutilate before applying Garrote a thing?

[balmy condor]

Yea, he’s using MA, that’s definitely the way to do it

[eternal totem]

hey guys, about to craft my legendary (zoldyck) anyone know what slot it is best for?

i can't find where it read it, but i feel like i read legs somewhere

[balmy condor]

Legs

!bis

[prisma monolith]

Whispyrs Bis list: http://tiny.cc/76r5tz

[eternal totem]

!bis

[prisma monolith]

Whispyrs Bis list: http://tiny.cc/76r5tz

[balmy condor]

You can see it in the dslice

[eternal totem]

that's where it was!! thank you!! 🙂

[balmy condor]

No problem

[barren linden]

ok I am still learning this, too

what ist the objective difference in going Garrote-Mutilate-Rupture or Mutilate-Garrote-Rupture?

[balmy condor]

We all learn every day :)

With MA you mut snd mut

Garrote mut rupture isn’t a sequence you would use

[barren linden]

for the crits, i see

[balmy condor]

But you’d get an extra garrote tick casting garrote first

[barren linden]

cause the Garrote wont crit

[eternal totem]

whats DS? bis ST i assume is single target?

[balmy condor]

Ds is dungeonslice

[eternal totem]

also, any recommendations for missives?

ah

[balmy condor]

Haste Vers

Or haste crit

[barren linden]

thanks, mate - will try that later

just joined the discord today, already worth

[eager plaza]

So when do you use ambush?

[granite forum]

Thanks a lot whis

[balmy condor]

You ambush with blindside

[barren linden]

my guess is when available and you need cp

[balmy condor]

On the proc

[balmy condor]

My pleasure

[eager plaza]

So never on the opener or when you use vanish? You always mut with MA

[balmy condor]

You always mut with every opener

[eternal totem]

aite ill go hate crit zoldyck legs thank you whispyr 🙂

[barren linden]

thats a thing the guides dont tell you

[balmy condor]

Ambush out of stealth with MA might be marginal, I don’t remember off the top of my head honestly

But I did research on subterfuge a while ago hold on

#tc-research message

Can read about it here

The MA stuff I did a while ago, might need to recheck honestly

[grim mason]

Yoooo

I found somthing out that no one else has found out!!!

it's about Inscrutable Quantum Device, awe come on, ask me what

[balmy condor]

...

I’m scared

Hit me

[grim mason]

not related to sin but, crazy find, it can be used Like a pvp trinket to get you out of stuns!

[balmy condor]

Yes

[grim mason]

wait you knew this?

[balmy condor]

That’s one of the effects

[grim mason]

ugh

[dim yacht]

@balmy condor what makes mut better than ambush on opener? im so confused

[vale plank]

It’s not everytime though right

For the device

Or does it remove stuns and give you whatever stat

[balmy condor]

I’ll answer device first

That’s a simpler answer

Device has multiple conditions that can be hit, healer mana under 30%, ally hp under 30%, aggro, cc, target under 20%(i think?) hp

In those situations, it will, give mana, heal, take the aggro away, clear the cc, do damage

Otherwise, it just gives a ton of stats

[vale plank]

That’s dope

Had no clue

[balmy condor]

Now

To the slightly more complicated question

Mutilate single target on opener vs ambush is a finnicky one because there’s a lot of things at play here

To list out some of the considerations, mutilate 4cp vs ambush 3cp, the potential proc of a blindside, application of poisons (afaik, since mutilate hits twice, so can the poison, need to double check that)

[dim yacht]

so in an m+ setting where youre running elab planning, ambush>mut?

since the proc of the blindside is out of the equation

[balmy condor]

Without blindside it becomes neutral

Or marginal I should say

[dim yacht]

thats so weird though lol

it makes sense, but still weird

thanks for explaination

[balmy condor]

Yeah ambush just kinda sucks

Tbh

If it were 3cp baseline, it would probably win

[dim yacht]

so when it comes to blindside procs, its not even about the damage

just the fact its free

[balmy condor]

Yup

The damage is the added benefit, not the main draw

The main draw is free gcd fillers

I also artificially raised the haste levels on sin during beta

As a test between ep, mp, bs

Before lethal poisons got stomped into the ground

And it actually trended pretty hard to “the faster sin becomes, the less good bs is”

[dim yacht]

man i feel like a buffed lethal poisons would be such a ncie saving grace too lol

[balmy condor]

I mean, back when lethal was like 100%

[dim yacht]

feels bad knowing sub/outlaw can do literally anything sin can do but better

[balmy condor]

Mp, ep and blindside were within like 1.5%

[dim yacht]

okay 100% is a bit busted lol

[balmy condor]

For single target

[dim yacht]

itd be nice to have more choices in talents instead of clear cut 'this over this'

[balmy condor]

I mean, the second row is pretty competitive honestly

That’s about it though

[dim yacht]

like, why would you ever not take alacrity

[balmy condor]

I guess vigor vs mfd, and later deeper, becomes a question as well

Pb vs Ct is also a bit of a question

[dim yacht]

i will say sin feels pretty nice in torghast at least

esp if youre kyrian

spamming 20 cp envenoms is great

[calm verge]

!stats

[prisma monolith]

**Shadowlands: ** Haste > Versatility => Critical Strike => Mastery

[warm parcel]

Both hits of mutilate roll their own poison application rolls yes

[obsidian sierra]

Hey guys do you think that 5 perc buff for assa helps in any way to compete with the other specs?

[gleaming summit]

[obsidian sierra]

Ah didnt realize thx

[azure fox]

!guide

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
RH: https://www.ravenholdt.net/guides/assassination-rogue-guide-shadowlands-raid-dps/
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide

[charred wind]

Noone is really doing assassination pvp atm but is the best leggo Doomblade/Dashing for pvp?

[vestal wren]

Legendary Powers:

Assassination:

[normal olive]

[vestal wren]

i just updated it to the tier profile, the relative balance remains close to what it was before

just higher numbers 👀

what is also closer to what ppl see in their sims or will see once mythic opens

[prime rock]

is assa viable at all ?

[pseudo hamlet]

It is... if everyone else is not having >80% logs and you're trying to do 110%.

But to be honest, I am believer and I hope that the final tuning will at least give us a position in the middle.
Still didn't craft my legendary, just in case if they decide to let the assa to rot in the end of the DPS list...

[prime rock]

so for now playing assa is not a good idea

[amber egret]

Do the ewapon enchants change at all for Mythic+s or is it still Celestial and Sinful?

[placid dawn]

You want lightless for m+ since it is aoe damage

[amber egret]

You think both or just one?

[placid dawn]

That I don't know

You could try to sim it

[rain peak]

Boys my English is very bad, I spent it translating to see if I understand something, I play Murder and I am not going to leave it, I still do not believe my legendary, would it be better to wait a little longer?

[desert swallow]

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Fuus Shadowlands evaluation Spreadsheet: http://tiny.cc/uxr1tz

[rain peak]

@desert swallow I don't really understand that :(

[desert swallow]

Don’t understand what? the linked spreadsheet or the !fuu command?

[fallen crypt]

Motherfucker im so split on what spec to play on my rogue, Sub is too strong to ignore, Assass is in my heart, love the playstyle, Outlaw is so smooth in M+.. someone pick for me xD Do we think Assass will make a comeback and be on par with sub/outlaw?

[empty cradle]

could always craft something like doomblade or MA

which any spec could use so you dont feel like you wasted ash

wait my bad bloodfangs the any spec one

[fallen crypt]

I have made MA already, solid for M+ but in raid its very Meh imo ^^

[rain peak]

@desert swallow I don't really understand what is in the spreadsheet

[empty cradle]

according to the pin maybe sin comes into play for execute fights with zoldyck

but yur better bet is either outlaw or sub

[fallen crypt]

Assassination lacks that "Big cooldown" in M+ to really shine i feel like, Outlaw just pop Blade flurry and blade rush and BAM 10+ dps

But i do enjoy poisioning and bleeding every MF up

[empty cradle]

i miss shrouded suff

[deep badge]

do you guys think assassination will get another buff next week?

[stoic needle]

We are all hoping but no one knows for sure

[fallen crypt]

Subterfuge kinda does shrouded suff tho, not as strong but almost ^^

[empty cradle]

it was the combo of the two that made it feel so nice to press garrote

[wind nymph]

is still worth using crit/vers instead of haste/crit in aoe? or haste is best overall even in plus?

[fallen crypt]

True, i feel ya

[empty ravine]

so is sin still good for single target

[stoic needle]

So it seems like outlaw is the best dual spec with sin gear wise? Since we both like haste and sub doesn't seem to

[stoic needle]

If by good you mean barely above tanks then sure

[fallen crypt]

Its not that bad tho ^^

[stoic needle]

Ehhh it kinda is

[fallen crypt]

Its not tho ^^ they are strong on execute

[stoic needle]

Even on execute we're still the worst dps lol

[fallen crypt]

Nopp..

[empty ravine]

so sub

:l

[strange python]

make assassination great again! blizz

yeah i had to reroll sub this expansion cuz i've always played sin but the dps felt so bad. enjoying sub but always liked sin more

[fiery socket]

!oh

[prisma monolith]

Mutilate requires a dagger in both hands, this makes using a non dagger weapons undesirable.

[cold rampart]

guys

phantom fire on pull?

[strange python]

So I just started using blindside and it helps the rotation ALLOT, tbh it should be a passive like it used to be tho

[dire spoke]

Use pots on bloodlust with CDs

[strange python]

woww melee needs a pve buff for higher m+/raid

[plain onyx]

recommended food and potion ?

[honest skiff]

is venthyr just a pain in the ass to use or what ?

[balmy condor]

our execute is overestimated a lot. Sin is still very weak single target

[balmy condor]

haste, agi

[stoic needle]

it's not that bad. people just like to whine because it isn't designed perfectly and requires some gameplay adjustment

the haste really helps too

[vestal wren]

assassination beats subtlety in cleave and aoe

while being undertuned

and iirc thats without the 5% buff it will recive with the weekly reset

[scarlet drift]

So you think Sin is viable atm? even before the 5% buff?

[vestal wren]

its def. undertuned

it just means that subtlety has shit aoe

^^

[strange python]

Aoe I personally top meters a good 75% of the time, I feel like we are strong there, but man boss fights I will peak around 3.1 then drop down hard by the end of the fight

[balmy condor]

yeah, I did some napkin math

and sin should be over sub in cleave again

but then outlaw exists :)

[strange python]

Yeah outlaw is disgusting in aoe

[balmy condor]

and its still worse in single target

and worse in heavier aoe

[strange python]

I mean, with the blindside talent, and vigor, I’m using ALLOT of abilities. Rupture just hits like a wet noodle

ilevel 188, takes 30 tries to get into an m+

melee broke

everyone wants damn MM

[real bay]

its more like ranged is broken

everyone wants broken ranges

[strange python]

haha ya

[real bay]

waiting for mm nerfs

[strange python]

im thinking buff melee

[balmy condor]

well, not really. It's the first week of m+, and no one has score, and its a homogenized mess atm of everyone from LFR heroes to week 1-2 aotc raiders with no m+ group

I think the melee/ranged thing might become a problem later in the pug world once a meta develops

[strange python]

still impossible to get in

its annoying af

[balmy condor]

but right now its literally just a free for all nightmare

[strange python]

haha ya but people are heavily favoring ranged even for m+

[nimble lichen]

hey guis

[strange python]

cuz theya re doing like 600k dmg

[nimble lichen]

does assa playable in sl right now

[balmy condor]

no

only in pvp, sorta

[marsh fog]

what you guys think about update 16 dec assa gets +5% to all dmg

[balmy condor]

there's a pin about it

[teal mountain]

!bis

[marsh fog]

oh 😛

[prisma monolith]

Whispyrs Bis list: http://tiny.cc/76r5tz

[drifting imp]

i really like the comparison of our dmg to a wet noodle

[plain onyx]

!guide

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
RH: https://www.ravenholdt.net/guides/assassination-rogue-guide-shadowlands-raid-dps/
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide

[pseudo hamlet]

@balmy condor ! You got the deserved green color! Gratulations! 😄 😄 😄

[balmy condor]

thank you :)

[jagged axle]

just got zoldyc

this game is practically begging me to return to assass

maybe one day :(

[drifting imp]

[stoic needle]

How do you beat black powder spam as sin for cleave and aoe?

[jagged axle]

playing outlaw

[stoic needle]

Yeah but fuu and whispyr just said that sin is better than sub in cleave and aoe

[balmy condor]

black powder spam is only really sauce on 4+

[sick scarab]

it si better more consistent

[balmy condor]

2-3 target you can win just by multi-dotting and subterfuging things

[sick scarab]

CT, dots etc

3 subterfige, CT etc

more consistent that black powder spam

[stoic needle]

I can see it on cleave, but aoe? I just don't know how to go about spreading dots in aoe I need to practice more

[fleet whale]

black powder is pretty much there for show

[stoic needle]

Dots on healthy stuff, envenoms on stuff that's about to die? Idk

[fleet whale]

as far as actual aoe goes, it's quite weak

[sick scarab]

it is only a matter of dmg..

the effort we put to do decent dps is not paragonalbe to what sub do

[fleet whale]

is that your shiba inu? lol

[sick scarab]

push 2 buttons

[fleet whale]

I own a pet shiba

[sick scarab]

it is an AKITA

[stoic needle]

By aoe we mean 5+ targets?

[sick scarab]

not shiba 🙂

[fleet whale]

oh, so big shiba

[sick scarab]

it is shiba is little akita !!

aoe iy

[balmy condor]

yes

you lose in aoe

[sick scarab]

not 2

it is decent

but sub ..

[fleet whale]

would be nice if sin had a baseline aoe finisher

[balmy condor]

its not decent in any way :P

the moment you go past like 3 targets

sin just can't keep up

with anything

[sick scarab]

well ofc

[stoic needle]

Yeah I was confused by the suggestion that sin beats sub in aoe

[sick scarab]

i said decent not good

[fleet whale]

play unholy dk, it's SIn on steroids with some pets

[balmy condor]

its not decent though :P

it beats sub in cleave

not aoe

[fleet whale]

and good at everything

[stoic needle]

I refuse to play the fotm

[sick scarab]

sub aoe burst is insane

2 buttons gg

[stoic needle]

But sustained it falls off yeah

[fleet whale]

and sub historically has had bad cleave

[sick scarab]

exaclty

[fleet whale]

it's intentional i think that sub has poor cleave

[sick scarab]

we onyl do low damage

[stoic needle]

If sub had good cleave there'd be no reason to run outlaw

[balmy condor]

just like its intentional that outlaw is good at everything

[fleet whale]

maybe blizz is going back to rogue roots

when combat was the best pve spec for everything lol

[stoic needle]

Lol

[fleet whale]

but outlaw ST could be lower

nathria also just allows for so much BF cheese

[stoic needle]

Nathria is truly the outlaw raid

[fleet whale]

if sin got a 10% buff instead of a 5% buff

sin would be pretty good too for these fight types

[pliant apex]

omg was thinking the SAME thing

why even bother with 5 if people cant play it eh

i dont understand

[stoic needle]

I have faith in blizzard

A tiny bit

If they'd give us 5, surely they'll stretch to 10, right? Right?

[strange python]

haha i tried black powder

such bad dps

maybe i don't have enough mastery

[balmy condor]

#subtlety ?

but also black powder is top damage in keys

[strange python]

people were just talking about it

chilllo

[balmy condor]

like

its really good

[strange python]

hmm

[balmy condor]

even without giga mast

[strange python]

maybe i need subterfuge

[balmy condor]

yikes, definitely not

[strange python]

i'll try again

wait are you doing sub now in m+ over outlaw?

[balmy condor]

I'm refusing to play outlaw because I don't like outlaw

[strange python]

haha

i see now

ugh i can't do it, people pull big packs, i tried and these really serious russian guys were pissssed

i was so embarrassed

[jagged axle]

I forgot that mast was the go to stat in Legion

I think it switched to haste cuz they put poison/bleed damage on haste scaling right?

[balmy condor]

and also changed mastery to affect bleeds

which completely boomed the overall % from it

[fleet whale]

adding bleeds to mastery was a mistake imo

preferred it how in legion that bleeds simply had a higher ap value

[mental ore]

So with this 5% overall increase, does assassination become even remotely competitive again?

NVM, saw pins. sorry LOL

[real bay]

soon

[strange python]

So at this point is it more beneficial to just focus on haste rather than Ilvl?

For pve

[balmy condor]

Keep simming

[hazy sigil]

has assassination envenom been patched?

[balmy condor]

What’s wrong with it

[hazy sigil]

the massive crits in pvp you can do

[balmy condor]

There are no nerfs announced

So yes, that still “works”

It’s not really a bug or anything

[fleet whale]

they'll patch sub's busted damage before they fix the one trick sin has

for pvp

[regal topaz]

Sub isn't busted lol

[strange python]

subs not busted, just sins busted in the wrong direction 😦

[main forge]

I'd rather see Sin get a buff to PvE with Rupture, Mutilate, and Envenom all getting +% buffs then the flat +5% aura buff 😦

[grizzled jay]

The damage profile of Sin is in a healthy spot

[deep wharf]

!bis

[prisma monolith]

Whispyrs Bis list: http://tiny.cc/76r5tz

[steep badger]

did they change it?

everyone thinks its an aura buff

why

It's still just all damaging abilities right?

not including white dmg

which is some 25% of our dmg on average

[strange python]

looks like an aura buff to me

[steep badger]

yeah i think im just an idiot, thought aura's included white dmg

[grizzled jay]

Auras are just this easy-to-use tool Blizzard has to instantly buff any spec they need to. It affects all abilities a spec has, so a buff/nerf to it is essentially them saying "the damage/healing profile is fine, it just needs shifted up or down". Though I suppose now with SnD a permanent buff, Aura buffs for Rogue result in a slightly shift to melee taking up a smaller % of the damage profile. Wonder if Blizzard thought about that.

[drifting light]

can any1 link the image with the soul ash gains per week? we get enough for rank 3 next reset?

[main forge]

I just am not happy with Melee and Deadly Poison being my top damage producers. Just feels like my button presses don't matter as much.

[strange python]

When can I game assassination again

seems like a worthless spec but its the most fun to me

[crisp zinc]

question: when you have a proc, lets say a trinket gives you +10agi for X amount of time does your DOT spells like rupture and poisons benefit from it only during the duration of the proc meaning that any 'empowered dots' that you have on the target will automatically scale down when the proc expires ?

also do DOTs that you already have on the target before the proc happens become automatically 'empowered' when the proc happens or only when you refresh them during the proc ?

[balmy condor]

duration of the proc

what you're describing is called "snapshotting"

and it works off of the additional damage from subterfuge, nightstalker, and pressing exsang snapshots the current haste

aside from that, all bleeds and poisons are dynamic to buffs

[crisp zinc]

so they will all automatically scale up during the proc and scale down when it expires, regardless of having the dots applied before, during or after the proc correct ?

[balmy condor]

yes

the only exceptions are the ones I listed

[crisp zinc]

ok thx

btw do you know the timer that one has to use combo points before they expire when we are out of combat ?

[balmy condor]

I don't know the exact timer

but I think its like 10 seconds and then 5 per?

never really something I've given thought tbh

[grizzled jay]

It's 10s every 1cp

Cause if you use MfD you lose your last CP as it comes off CD

(as Outlaw)

[balmy condor]

aight well then that's that

[grizzled jay]

that's why mfd is so strong as sub/sin (imo) cause you can start a pull with a 3-cp SnD and immediately MfD Rup

[crisp zinc]

i've tested it, and for some reason when you leave combat with 5 combo points it takes 20s to lose your first combo point, after that all other you lose after 10s each

[fallow otter]

Cheers, I'm used CP just by internal timer in my head but I should make a WA for this moving forward, might do that before raid

[balmy condor]

I had the ratio right at least

[crisp zinc]

actually the timer for the 1st combo point you lose it's not that precise, sometimes it happens before 20s I dunno what can be interfering with the timer its weird

[sacred yarrow]

That's why weakauras for it r hard to find

[balmy condor]

I think the reason wa's are hard to find for it is because it's not really someone anyone needs

the only reason to care about cp out of combat is between pulls for alacrity

and you just kinda use it on your way to the next pack and be done with it

[sacred yarrow]

I wanted one so that I could refresh snd at the last second in m+ where it would be necessary or in bfa roll the bones when it was gona tick over to maximise the new buff

Apart from that ur right

Sounds like timing it well could be 9 sec extra buff uptime

[strange python]

haha now people are asking for ranged dps in m+ description

[main forge]

Well every class they have added to the game since Classic has been melee.

[balmy condor]

not really why they're asking for ranged I would think

[strange python]

rofl only 1 rogue in top 100 pvp too

but the biggest issue is the massive disparity between ranged/dps in m+

raid

before it didn't seem so bad now its just crazy

pvp will provs even out with vers but m+ is lookin roughh unless we get some nice buffs

[dry rover]

i know "is it any good?" is a pretty cringy question to ask, but ive just spent the last 45 minutes practicing the rotation of all 3 specs on a dummy, and subtlety seems to MASSIVELY outperform the other two specs both in open-burst damage, and in sustained single target damage

what utility does assassination bring that you could ever justify using it in pvp over subtlety?

also, any chance theyll buff serrated bone dagger u think? or have i royally fucked myself by going maldraxxus haahaha

[balmy condor]

sub is better single target

but outlaw is better in 2-4 target

[dry rover]

sorry, i should clarify that im speaking strictly for pvp haha

[balmy condor]

sin has no place in current metas

[dry rover]

im not sure what kind of masochist would main a rogue in pve content tbh 😛

[balmy condor]

most of this channel

and the other spec channels

[stone epoch]

the improved poisons are alright in pvp. sins do some decent pressure with their dots. It's alright in bgs like that. But you'll generally be better going the other 2 if you're more serious.

[balmy condor]

since #pvp exists

[dry rover]

assassination just feels so awkward now that Shiv is part of the rotation

[balmy condor]

and is usually where most pvp conversations happen

[dry rover]

25 second maintenance spells arent fun

dks have it with remorseless winter or virulent plague, too

oh sorry i didnt realise haha
thought asking assassination-pvp questions would be better here

[balmy condor]

it technically is where you would put it

its just that the channels have homogenized a fair bit

[dry rover]

my b

dk main, i usually chat pvp in the spec channels

[balmy condor]

since pvp is a much smaller aspect in the community

[dry rover]

really? even of rogues?

not to be that guy, but isnt rogue the penultimate pvp spec?

[balmy condor]

pvp is smaller than pve

is the thing

[dry rover]

ive never enjoyed pve content with them - outside of cooldowns, they feel really floppy

like whenever shadow dance is down, i feel like im lvl 15 again with my rotation hahaah

[strange python]

i'm the 6th most geared rogue on my server rn (:

almost have all that haste gear to try out sin again too

sucks tho mm are still doing like 3x the dmg

[drifting cosmos]

I guess the target limits in aoe really killed some of the melee specs in key?

[balmy condor]

target limits hurt, but also just ranged specs are really strong on top of that

[drifting cosmos]

I guess they really want to change m+ spec profile

[balmy condor]

from mage rogue DH or mage rogue hunter

to mage rogue hunter

but this time with maybe a spriest, or a boomy, or a dk because they're overtuned

big change

[strange python]

https://tenor.com/view/hang-first-time-smiles-gif-14991372

[short night]

any chance ass will be on apr with sub on tuesday?

[balmy condor]

nope, you can read the pin on it

[short night]

sadge

ass is so fun

[split wharf]

Is assa been stronger with new 5% ?

[balmy condor]

pins

[split wharf]

thx

[fallow otter]

I feel a lil two faced with a red name currently

[main forge]

Just beat layer 6 coldheart.... 30 anima powers.... and 703k damage done @ 4.6k dps

pathetic.

Crimson Vial on zero cooldown with the maw rats stamina buff is nice though....

[fallow otter]

Lol that's my sim dps out of the box

You got shafted

[untold spruce]

i got most of my echoing reprimand powers during my 6 layer runs,it made things alot easier when it consumes for 20 combo points 😛

[main forge]

Sepsis one is a little sad... its like does 15% of the targets max HP to 3 nearby targets....

which is great for bosses with no adds

but I also had the one if Sepsis ran out... it reset vendetta

also shadowstep increases DPS of your next finisher by 400% is great... now only if we had coldblood and could guarantee a crit

[untold spruce]

oof that would be fatal 😄

[balmy condor]

just build MA

[main forge]

i saw a 86k envenom hit... I think i only had a 25%-50% envenom power

I think i just am going to do that

[untold spruce]

so far with envenom power and echoing reprimand 20 combo points i can easily crit 90k with envenom

it feels good

[main forge]

the soulshape anima powers suck too... increases movement speed by 50% and reduces cooldown by 30s, and the other one is.... targets near your soulshape are reduced by 50% speed for 6s

great for casters? but like crap for rogue

[untold spruce]

the kyrian steward ones are nice,like it being able to buff or heal you in combat

[main forge]

if either one had a "can still attack in soulshape form" that would be the tits

[untold spruce]

i wish there was something for more AoE thou

like with my DH i can just pull the room and kill everything

[primal zinc]

!bis

[prisma monolith]

Whispyrs Bis list: http://tiny.cc/76r5tz

[untold spruce]

i'm wondering if i should craft a dashing legendary

i already got zoldyck

but the effect of dashing feels better to me

[drifting imp]

So reset is near and no additional buffs and nerfs for any class in sight? 👀

[uneven summit]

hey @balmy condor is assa on par with sub on wednesday?

[balmy condor]

pins

[uneven summit]

😆

[untold spruce]

would people hate me if i said i used master poisoner instead of Blindside :D?

[balmy condor]

for what

[untold spruce]

general pve content?

[balmy condor]

oh

yikes

[untold spruce]

i got a rogue the other day berating me for using master poisoner instead of blindside in a dungeon

[fallow otter]

But there are pog sepsis ones

[untold spruce]

can i post sims here?

[balmy condor]

yes

[untold spruce]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/eNbwmddAms2HTQY87CyEXp

blindside gets a 35+ increase,wow much damage

[balmy condor]

45 yeh

zoldyck makes it kinda acceptable

[untold spruce]

i usually take passives for personal reasons,and i like to see the high poison crits 😛

[balmy condor]

?

[orchid stirrup]

Sry

My he

Hw

[real bay]

lol

I have no idea what that was

[balmy condor]

clean up crew

:)

[orchid stirrup]

Thanx

ME bad

[real bay]

alright blizz where's the +10%

[arctic cove]

I would like to announce that after 2 weeks of playing sub im done and I made my return to sin. Feels good playing lowest dps spec.

[real bay]

how is my outlaw simming 4k without lege acceptable when some dude Sims 3.7k with lege as assa..

[arctic cove]

btw, is NF still considered the best pick for sins_

[balmy condor]

yes

[arctic cove]

aw, okaay

[balmy condor]

but they're all omega close

so its really whatever

[arctic cove]

yeah I am NF but i kinda wish you would say "nah dude necro is"

[balmy condor]

I mean

if you ask some of the high end guilds

they'll tell you that

because LBE

[arctic cove]

whats LBE

[balmy condor]

lead by example

first trait emeni

[solemn pier]

primary stat proc

when you bone spike things

[untold spruce]

cause i'm good mate! jk ofcourse,no idea what i do right lmao

[arctic cove]

hmm ok, ill stick with NF until everyone makes the swap to necro or something else

[balmy condor]

Well

They’re probably swapping off necro

Instead of swapping TO necro

[lament dove]

it's hard to imagine how NF Koryan will not be OP compared to the others, it just sounds insane in comparison

in aoe

I'm considering switching to it since I'm mostly doing m+ and not so much raids

[untold spruce]

i doubt that i really matters

i'm kyrian and it's doing really well 😛

[balmy condor]

NF at 31 is definitely a “matters”

Situation

[uneven summit]

NF still supposedly the strongest at renown 31 right?

[balmy condor]

That’s what I just said ye

[strange python]

!bis

[prisma monolith]

Whispyrs Bis list: http://tiny.cc/76r5tz

[strange python]

what trinket should i go for? phial of purification?

[balmy condor]

Toxin is good single targetp

Phial good too

Ideally you go raid trinkets imo

[strange python]

kk ty

[uneven summit]

i dont think i´ve ever experienced so little going on in assa chat xD the specc is truly dead

[fallow otter]

this chat has been 5% more active since wowhead post amirite @balmy condor

[main forge]

The only time it was ever played less was probably in BC.

LMAO

[fallow otter]

not including lines that can be answered by check the pins

[main forge]

Discord has a shitty way of showing those pins.... wish they were like more of a MOTD which you had to read or click off, if you haven't read them yet.

[tardy echo]

Its what happens to a spec thats bottom of the charts especially since all 3 specs are pretty fun to play

[main forge]

Then again, there is that point where someone just wants to talk to someone else and not read the pins...

[fallow otter]

all the welcome messages say check the pins and if they have been here before they should already know thats where all the info is, likely a mixture of laziness and ignorance lol

but that seems a little harsh

[vestal wren]

there are some ppl who play it, i hope we see another 5% buff

[uneven summit]

yeah im waiting with my legendary for that exact reason, but it´s unlikely that 10% in total will be enough yea?

[fallow otter]

rolling a rogue as soon as sin gets pulled in line fuu?>

u not maining one atm iirc?

[uneven summit]

tbh assa has so much potential in this raid if it gets buffed enough, there´s so much cleave

[deft sparrow]

the 5% overal damage buff for sin already has been implemented? Or will it with the next weekly reset?

[high siren]

next weekly reset

[deft sparrow]

that'd be nice, and def needed XD

[high siren]

still not enough

[deft sparrow]

will it make sin valid again , thats the suestion though

i fcking hate Slice n Dice

[high siren]

check the pins

[deft sparrow]

yeah , already suspected it wouldnt be enough, makes me sad

[vestal wren]

10% in total would help

it would make assassination more relevant and esp. given it offers execute it could be a popular pick

[untold spruce]

why can't they give us a talent like they gave feral druid, finishing move that applies rupture to 5 targets or something

AoE feels bleh with sin

[eager plaza]

how many of you boys stickin it out with sin? 😄

[pulsar tusk]

i still play it for pve

7% haste stronk

[thorn crater]

so its still only supposed to be a 5% huh. no chance they get it to 10 by wed? 😛

[plain thistle]

are you trying to convince yourself? 🤔

[eager plaza]

i am xD

[pulsar tusk]

guess I am

[eager plaza]

im trying to convince myself to keep comitting to sin xD

[uneven summit]

i´ve had to become a slave to the meta in raids so far to compete tbh, but it hurts me playing sub it´s so fucking boring

i´ve been assa allways

[azure pawn]

Hey folks, nice to know I'm not the only one sticking with sin despite its current performance. I know its not everyones cup of tea but I just love the playstyle.

[round rover]

I'm sticking it out, though at 185 ilvl only simming at 3.3K DPS

[strange python]

It is a great and fun spec to play :> the only moment I do not enjoy is when I'm looking at the dps meter.

[round rover]

Yeah my thoughts exactly!

[azure pawn]

I know the feeling 😐

[eager plaza]

only up from here tho xD

[azure pawn]

An optimist! Fingers crossed

[round rover]

Yeah that extra 5% might actually be good 😛

[main forge]

I mean... when you are on the bottom... and you beat someone else... you know who the better player truly is.

[real bay]

new challenge

get first dps as assa

perhaps possible if half raid is ded

still haven't crafted a lego.. blizz pls

[main forge]

If I'm first dps as Sin.... I'm finding another raid group.

[sick scarab]

i am tring sub .. jesu i hate it LOL

[uneven summit]

its the worst

[main forge]

I am trying sub too... The only fun part is that... in PvP you pretty much always win 1v1

I don't get or understand the flow for PvE, it still feels clunky.

[scarlet mantle]

Ye even tho Im playing sub I aggre

Sub feels like an exclusive PvP style

[fickle agate]

eternal skirmish or 30 to all stats?

[main forge]

Eternal Stats and Sacred Stats chest enchant tooltips now correctly reflects that they affect the primary stat and not all stats.

so what is cheaper... not sure if the "primary stats" covers stamina though

that's the real trick. +30 extra stamina is really decent at this level.

[barren brook]

!guide

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
RH: https://www.ravenholdt.net/guides/assassination-rogue-guide-shadowlands-raid-dps/
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide

[edgy notch]

!bis

[prisma monolith]

Whispyrs Bis list: http://tiny.cc/76r5tz

[real bay]

[strange python]

!stats

[prisma monolith]

**Shadowlands: ** Haste > Versatility => Critical Strike => Mastery

[cold rampart]

!covenants

!covenant

[dim mirage]

fuck snd

[pseudo hamlet]

Every time I wake up I hope to see that Slice and Dice is deleted in the BlizzPosts about Shadowlands changes

[deep cargo]

is 5% enough to make sin rogues viable again?

[misty hemlock]

short answer: no

long answer: not enough

[sonic spindle]

I don’t understand how even with SnD energy regen, energy feels slower than while leveling.

There’s no way that’s true right?

[main forge]

secondary stats with BFA gear is worth more... til you hit 60

[sonic spindle]

I just don’t get how even with different talents, and 2 energy passives, how we still feel starved.

It’s gross.

[main forge]

I'm sitting at 600 points - 18% haste... and it feels about the same as when I hit 120 in 8.3 back in March

But at least I could get essences and azerite pieces....

[sonic spindle]

I’m want shrouded suffocation to be baseline for sin. I never thought I’d say it, but I miss it.

[main forge]

I was bottom of the charts then too... group just cleared heroic, and I was a carry.

[sonic spindle]

Haha, I’m trying to learn sub, but it just doesn’t jive with me. I like the smooth rotation of sin

[main forge]

yeah... or at least give us a talent row with IDK essences to choose from....

All of our power came from those borrowed power mechanics, and they were multiplicative. hence the haste corruption.

I tried to hit buttons in sub, but yeah I don't get the "rotation" at all.

I did combat back in BC, looked for a mutilate spec because I wanted to use that ability... there wasn't one... started playing in wrath, that's when Sin became viable. And haven't tried to play anything else

[sonic spindle]

Yea, I started raiding as rogue in wotlk, played sin and kind of stuck with it forever. It just feels so bad now. I’m worried it’ll get buffed after I invest a ton of time into my sub leggo.

[lost sentinel]

I got MA + akaari already, but I am still rooting for sin to be good

[oak tangle]

you need to stack cd's on sub, opposite playstyle to assass, where you maintain

play your mini burst windows around symbols of death

don't cap on shadow dance charges and have snd and rupture ready prior to entering a burst window

[sonic spindle]

I hate the CD timings for sub. I have blades/trinket on a 3 minute. Racial/vanish on a 2 minute. Trinket on 90 seconds, dance is whatever, and symbols is 30 seconds. Managing it all isn’t fun for me.

[undone scroll]

Assassin good in torghast though I imagine?

Leeching poison

[sonic spindle]

I doubt it, but I’d be interested to hear what the sin rogues think.

[somber thistle]

I've been having a rough time in torghast with the Sentinel debuff putting me into negative haste.

[sonic spindle]

I’m either bad at rogue/get crap rng/both or rogues have a rough time in torghast in general.

[exotic dagger]

What's pretty average for assassin dps in mythics? Anyone have reliable info?

[gleaming eagle]

sin rogues are good in torghast

[fast ruin]

I admit my personal skill set is below average, but Torghast as assassination makes me want to end my subscription.

[sonic spindle]

The only rogues I’ve heard like torghast are kyrian rogues

[exotic dagger]

I personally enjoy torghast

[sonic spindle]

I piggyback off all my friends I. Torghast. I stopped soloing awhile ago

So how are the kyrian anima powers =p

[balmy condor]

I love solo torghast

[drifting cloud]

even for kyrians its a 2 power combo

Ive only gotten it twice in the last 8 runs

[oak tangle]

vanish is not a dps cd on sub like it is for assass

[drifting cloud]

its barely a given

[dim mirage]

im not playing assassin atm but i love torghast

[spice spire]

Is vanish even a dps cd right now? I’m using MA for mythics, so I know it is in that effect, but I thought it was just a DPS CD for shrouded suffocation. Am I mentally missing a mechanic?

[balmy condor]

Yes

The entire second row of talents

[spice spire]

Ahhh I forgot garrote deals 80% more damage from stealth

With subterfuge*

[sonic spindle]

How is 6 seconds of 100% crit not a dps cooldown?

[balmy condor]

4 seconds from the legendary

[oak tangle]

you do not use that legendary on sub

akaari or finality

[stoic needle]

Nothing wrong with using MA as sub especially if you're multi speccing

[balmy condor]

MA is arguably the best m+ legendary for sub

[sonic spindle]

Fwiw I’d still use vanish for a cheaper shadowstrike

[dim mirage]

and a shadowstrike nonetheless

[sonic spindle]

Plus I’m a shitter and only 9/10 😦

[next bay]

I haven't tried assn since a few days after I hit 60, but leeching poison seemed very undertuned. The talent that heals sub rogues for a few percent of their life while stealthed/shadow dancing feels like it heals wayyy more.

but you can also reduce crimson vial cooldown to 10 seconds pretty easily in Torghast, or even 0 sometimes.

[primal zinc]

!bis

[prisma monolith]

Whispyrs Bis list: http://tiny.cc/76r5tz

[runic crescent]

How's sin after the buffs?

still meh eh?

[balmy condor]

Pins

[runic crescent]

There are some bosses like cellblock sentinel that are probably easier as sin

[next bay]

Yea definitely. I was meaning to give torghast a shot as 'sin after they buffed the rogue survivability powers.

[tidal gorge]

Probably similar to how I play Torghast as sub for sin as well, you should always grab +% health and %heal powers, they make you immortal. My layer 6 last nite I had 100k hp and random 10% heal procs

[strange python]

5% buff to a spec that does 30% less damage than the other specs bro pog

[real bay]

200iq tuning, i get they're being careful but 5% is 5%

[next bay]

they're gonna give it 5% buffs every week until it's in line, and then a 500% damage buff and it'll stay that way until the next expansion where it gets nerfed into oblivion again

[dim mirage]

i aint sub but 5% is 5%

[toxic beacon]

!guide

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
RH: https://www.ravenholdt.net/guides/assassination-rogue-guide-shadowlands-raid-dps/
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide

[vocal cloud]

i parsed good guys!!

😩 🔫

[spice spire]

LMFAO

[stone epoch]

Lmao

[real bay]

mm hard

[stoic needle]

[drifting imp]

i also just finished slapping some bosses with my wet noodle daggers. it just felt so bad :

[real bay]

[drifting imp]

i just specced to sub, never played it before, just pressed any buttons on a dummy and had about the dps i got with my sin

[stoic needle]

i tell you what it was a crazy feeling stepping into my first M+ as OL and immediately pulling 5k dps on the first pack

[balmy condor]

you haven't felt power until you pop off with MA as sub

[stoic needle]

doing 5/6cp sectech > vanish > shuriken > more BP spam is pretty ridiculous

[drifting imp]

[stoic needle]

but it gets kinda boring only pressing 2 buttons

[lament dove]

dunno, I'm doing that but other classes still tend to outburst me

I saw a lock do 25K burst on a pack

UDKs, mages burst harder than sub

also the longer the fight is the more sub gets starved while others keep dps-ing

[dark vigil]

why is sin so bad rn

[real bay]

should I just yolo and go ass. buffs next week for sure

because number tuning

[dark vigil]

does sin even offer anything special that the others cant

[balmy condor]

nop

a silence I guess

but its not worth anything

execute damage, but its not good enough

[dark vigil]

im wanting to make an alt so im hopping around

i like the idea of sin but i dont wanna play something bad if im gonna try to raid and shit

[lament dove]

what I don't get is if they have these auras for dmg, they could balance like every reset, so why not?

why keep dragging it and keep people from enjoying their game?

[balmy condor]

because they don't want to rock the boat constantly

[dark vigil]

alright well

ty

[lament dove]

so players are supposed to rock the boat by rerolling I guess

[amber quail]

@balmy condor XD that need a payment every month and we don't pay nothi...OH W8 😄

my personal question is: you know this by BETA...what are you did meanwhile?

are you reading what community suggest/write or is not yours matter?

(blizzard)

i'm trying SUB but i don't like

i love sin ç_ç

[vale quest]

is Assassin good yet, i don't subscribe when my main spec since forever is dog shit

[dark vigil]

i'd wait til tomorrow

to see what goes through

[lofty leaf]

yep, we all crossing our fingers for further balancing tomorrow

[real bay]

spec representation is so low blizz is likely very aware of the issues

[storm quartz]

Pretty much first time really giving assassination a good go. I just hit 60. I feel like it’s taking along time to kill one thing, can barely handle two mobs at once. Not sure if it’s that spot between hitting 60 and getting gear. Feel like I’m last in dps in every dungeon. Is Assass a gear dependent spec? Or maybe I’m just not performing the rotation to where I should be. Any advice would be helpful

[dark vigil]

gear

[balmy condor]

its just really weak

gear helps

but in comparison to sub, its just got less healing and less damage, and less cc

[storm quartz]

Okay. I played outlaw the last xpac not really feeling it anymore

[low girder]

and a lot less burst

it's very dmg over time heavy in world content

requires setup

which makes you take a lot more dmg

with low gear at least

later you can prolly take MA and just mut -> env -> mut and kill normal mobs

[calm dome]

Whispyr, waht your opinion about Outlaw spec ?
Is it punchy with good regen energy / CB ?

[arctic cove]

@calm dome i just swapped to outlaw after trying sub for a while, not gonna lie, it feels kinda good

swapping around sub/law until sin is playable

[strange python]

does it matter if i have sinful revelation on my off hand so I don't have to put it on my new weapon?

[balmy condor]

no

[strange python]

tyty

[calm dome]

@arctic cove Thanks man .. I dont like Sub, and I feel I could love Outlaw. I do M+ all day everyday and I play kinda agressive with big pull.
I was wondering if Outlaw is fun to play, if we do have a lot of energy during big fight , not like the slow pace of sin

[river ore]

Outlaw is fun but a little difficult to play perfect. Imo

[balmy condor]

I don't play outlaw cause I don't like it :)

[stoic needle]

I would really appreciate more transparency from blizzard about their development process. Even just an explanation of like "we only like to make changes every x amount of time, and our target goal for this spec is Y dps on single target and G dps in AOE. we want this class to fill this niche so we are modifying this aspect of their kit". Cuz it feels like they make changes very arbitrarily, and ignore broad issues with specs for a long time. It would mean so much if they would just admit "we know that sin's aoe isn't the best right now, but we don't have time for a full rework until later". Just an acknowledgement of the true state of the game would go so far.

[drifting cosmos]

Afk and come back next tier might help

[stoic needle]

I switched from sub to outlaw and I love it, you can be maximum agression all the time instead of having to plan around your burst windows. It feels more flexible for sure

And their aoe rotation is less braindead than sub which appreciate

[arctic cove]

@stoic needle did u spec the talents for m+ as the ones they have pinned?

@calm dome also for me outlaw feels more smooth than sub did, atleast for me

[stoic needle]

Yeah I did

[arctic cove]

I just need new weapons now, im stuck with a bad sword and a dagger lol

[stoic needle]

With MA, opening with ambush > blade flurry > blade rush > cov ability > vanish > ambush > BTE is absolutely nuts damage

Apparently a dagger offhand is bis for OL because of main gauche and poison?

I just need a good mainhand. Praying I can get poxstorm from plaguefall, or maybe I'll get a conquest dagger

[arctic cove]

lol really?

damn ill try that opener, i have not been looking up any videos but just trying to see if i enjoy the spec

[stoic needle]

Yeah I haven't been looking at too many guides either just having fun slashing shit up

[arctic cove]

how does a dagger affect main gauche

im too noob

the passive im guessing

[balmy condor]

dagger offhand is only slightly bis because poisons aren't normalized

main gauche and combat potency are normalized

so its whatever

also the fk are you talking about outlaw in this dead ass channel

[arctic cove]

sorry i just prefer this channel over the other two 😛

[stoic needle]

I have this conduit called Count the Odds which gives dispatch and ambush a chance to add a Roll The Bones effect you don't have already, so doing the vanish ambush opener is really good