assassination

[spice spire]

Excellent

Thank you whispyr papi

[balmy condor]

Np my son

[steep badger]

Whisp close, but I think it’s more A-sad-nation.

[plain onyx]

What do I gain from " Path of Ascension " ?

[balmy condor]

I would assume ascension

[sinful shore]

guys is it viable, and will it be buffed?

[abstract mirage]

does sepsis not benefit from assassination mastery?

[balmy condor]

No, and probably

[balmy condor]

Only shiv, there’s no interaction with sin passives from covenants otherwise

[strange python]

wtf just did 40k dmg with after I switched in more crit gear

cheapshot into 3 ambush then rupture then i ran

haha

[lean marten]

just go 1shot ppl in pvp assa's 1 good quality

[strange python]

lulz i wish

hmm now do i go all in and buy the expensive purple crit gear on the ah

omg this ilevel cap on enchants is so annoying

[vernal walrus]

where i should craft zoldyck legs or feet¿

[balmy condor]

Legs

[vernal walrus]

for the +stats¿

[balmy condor]

Yes

[fossil slate]

My bones are still feeling the buff

[terse hinge]

Envenom go pwoosh

[shrewd pivot]

rupture when in doubt

then kidney shot/CT for filler

[woeful wigeon]

@balmy condor sub rogue get a pin with BIS and sin not so i posted it

[balmy condor]

?

!bis

[prisma monolith]

Whispyrs Bis list: http://tiny.cc/76r5tz

[balmy condor]

It’s the same as for sub

[pearl jungle]

hey guys..i have some question about new sub rogue..
What is the best covenant on pvp and pve?

[stoic needle]

#subtlety

[fervent cypress]

in one word, i wanna play only but i wanna be night fae, help me

[balmy condor]

just play night fae

[vestal wren]

night fae is not a bad pick

[river ore]

Sin has to get buffs at this point.

where does Zoldyck Insignia drop from?

[main forge]

Coldheart in Torghast

so run that this week.

[river ore]

ok ty

[fervent cypress]

oops :3

i wanna play only pvp* D:

[balmy condor]

you can still play night fae in pvp

[fervent cypress]

oh

hard choice(

[manic pond]

i just got zoldyck is it worth?

[merry adder]

there isn't that much difference in covenants right? i love venthyr aesthetic and companions and spell effects too much. if not for that, i'd have picked fae but...
but... blood magic effects...

[balmy condor]

zoldyck is our best all-around

[eternal quartz]

guys i'm a assa rogue but it would seem its kinda looking shitty for us atm. do you think i should switch to sub or wait it out?

[balmy condor]

the difference isn't that huge no, venthyr is slightly behind

[manic pond]

i tend to play sub in arenas but im anticpating massive nerf soon so

[balmy condor]

wait till after this week, they always tune at the end of heroic week/start of mythic week, we'll see where we are after that

[manic pond]

oh watch pikaboos vid assa can crit 20k+ in arena

[eternal quartz]

@balmy condor alright thanks i will wait it out

[eternal quartz]

do you have any link? i'm interested in watching that

[manic pond]

can i post links?

https://youtu.be/IugsVRGnRmQ?t=229

[eternal quartz]

thanks my dude

[merry adder]

behind fae you mean or the other three?

[balmy condor]

other 3

[robust pine]

Is it normal that legendary effect is my top damage?

[main wharf]

poggy

[balmy condor]

no

[robust pine]

mutilated flesh should be 30% of mutilate or something like that...

[balmy condor]

doomblade should be a little lower than ambush if you're playing blindside

roughly on part with your covenant ability

which I don't see on there

oh there it is

sbs

actually all those damage numbers seem weird

now that I'm looking at it

[robust pine]

i'll ask someone else to link my damage...

[balmy condor]

388k on autos seems like

really high

like that feels like maybe a 10 minute fight almost

that's a REALLY long fight

and if its that long, sbs would do more than 36k in 10 minutes

[robust pine]

my damage from other guy's addon

[balmy condor]

idk, there's a lot of stuff that doesn't make sense

[robust pine]

it's another attempt

[balmy condor]

yeah I have no clue whats going on there honestly

[balmy condor]

do your logs show the same thing?

[robust pine]

logs? I am at raid right now

[balmy condor]

yeah

so do your logs show the same thing

or not

[robust pine]

and i am not sure we will upload logs for... this

[balmy condor]

oh

unfortunate

[robust pine]

i don't write logs myself

i will ask

maybe someone do

[warm parcel]

houndmaster?

[robust pine]

yes

huntsman

[warm parcel]

every spell like thats bugged there

theyre fixed one at a time

[robust pine]

oh, ok then

[warm parcel]

shadow blades did the same

shadow priests did the same

[balmy condor]

oh

yeah

didn't notice the huntsmaster damage at the bottom, good catch

[robust pine]

oh, it's because of the dogs who receive billion % more damage...

[strange python]

would be p cool if they gave us some energy with crimson vial

[balmy condor]

[strange python]

then you chose between health and the energy

[balmy condor]

damage reliance on a defensive

its not good

[spice spire]

Yeah because the spirit can take 200% increased damage, your numbers will be a bit fucked

[strange python]

could be like a rage thing, you can go all in and use your pot for energy

or you can just always save for d

easiet would be just give us 3 combo points with garrote from stealth

for sin buffs

[balmy condor]

that's 6 extra cp in 5 minutes

probably wouldn't even make a dent

[strange python]

why were we recovering energy so fast before?

[spice spire]

Shrouded suffocation is baseline

[strange python]

haha ya it wouldn't be hard to just roll it into garrote

[balmy condor]

we were recovering energy so fast because we had 250% haste in bloodlust

[spice spire]

Extremely high haste numbers mixed with venomous wounds created energy recovery, correct?

[balmy condor]

yes

[strange python]

what was your haste at?

i know i didn't have 600

but wasn't 600 the target?

[balmy condor]

in 8.3? don't remember tbh

70% out of combat though was pretty normal

we also had memory of lucid dreams

which was a ton of energy

[strange python]

oh ya

lucid dreams

i member

[balmy condor]

big part was just haste corruptions though

[strange python]

tru

[balmy condor]

with blindside/alac now, sin is actually roughly as fast as it was in ep

iirc

[strange python]

hmm i'll check it out

[fleet whale]

lower crit does make it feel a bit more clunkier though

[strange python]

im actually liking this crit assassin build

if we get buffed its gonna be p competitive

is there a way to make a macro to stop my flag from triggering twice when I spam it?

[nimble tartan]

sin ep was ok

[strange python]

it just never pops off when i want so i have to click it a bunch

[balmy condor]

isn't it on gcd?

[strange python]

i think people use something similar on stealth, so you don't accidently click twice and unstealth

dunno, it always clicks then clicks again so it just gives me 1 stack

[balmy condor]

the stealth one is based on stance:0

I'm pretty sure

[strange python]

dang

[balmy condor]

idk how you would do that with flag

would suggest just not going mongo on the button

[fleet whale]

Flag gcd is weird

[strange python]

it never works

i press it once and it just doesn't work haha

[fleet whale]

it's... an odd ability to say the least

[strange python]

haha ya

feels a little buggy still

[fleet whale]

rush implementation for sure

[strange python]

just did 300k dmg in arena with sin (:

[shrewd pivot]

anyone settled on a spec yet

i find subtlety the best because of eviscerate

[balmy condor]

Not until after tuning

[shrewd pivot]

but envenom + mutilate works well

theyre all good specs

[balmy condor]

Sin is currently not a good spec

[strange python]

ya this is a lot of work

to do what i can easily do with sub

much better

[shrewd pivot]

once people peak in stamina/hp its gonna be hard to do the same thing as sin

sin is almost always arena top tier

but eviscerate is the key tbh

sub is probably still the best

[atomic gate]

I think my Sin rupture is like 2k

Meanwhile Eviscerate is 4k plus 2k shadow

[shrewd pivot]

after you envenom you need to stack poisons

[atomic gate]

There's just no way I'm afraid of an assassin in pvp right now

[shrewd pivot]

its auto attack

[atomic gate]

You can't rely on sticking to targets, and burst is king while we have sub 30k health pools

Maybe when we all have 36k a grindy Sin strat would work

[shrewd pivot]

cause anti enrage mechanics

most scared of a warrior but not anything else

[strange python]

it actually feels pretty good in 3s rn

sin does

but 2s v bad

sub still better

but if we get a buff oooof

[shrewd pivot]

2v need a healer

[strange python]

i'm going crit for burst

[shrewd pivot]

vers better cause poison

haste vers

[strange python]

doing a classic rogue assassin build

crits + some extra dmg from poison/bleed

[storm forum]

sin probably better for RPS than sub, but sub is probably better for RMP

[strange python]

ya its still not great

i have to do a ton of work when sub does it way better

[shrewd pivot]

problem is that ret and MM hunter is god

i dont have a problem beating out other rogues

mm hunter is impossible to beat 1v1

need a friend lol

[strange python]

oh ya without double shadowstep

those slippery bastards

[shrewd pivot]

its hunters mark

strangely beatable with feint and good energy

and well placed kick

[gusty kestrel]

no one cares about 1v1s

[strange python]

i have been getting kited

by this bastard

ahh need to shiv

70% for 5 seconds is not bad at all

[calm dome]

Plaguefall Mythic 7 Global Damages . 1st is Sub 190 ilvl , Me, 3rd, 190 ilvl . We are not that trash 🙂

[balmy condor]

well

you're also all in the 2k-2.3k range

which is all pretty low tbh

it's like being in a group of people, none of which are taller than 5'8

and going "see! 5'4 isn't that short!"

[shrewd pivot]

lmao

5'7 is meta

[strange python]

and im back to sub haha that was a wasted 150k on boots

yep 40k dmg right away

[broken kettle]

im this many days old when i found out you can use garrote outside of stealth now... i feel like trash

[strange python]

haha

whats a good dps rating on raidbots?

[balmy condor]

in sin? dunno, maybe like 4k

[strange python]

what about sub?

[balmy condor]

sub players are getting to 4.5k pretty comfortably with more m+ gear

[strange python]

kk ty

[iron orchid]

Have you tried sin in M+ Whispyr ?

[balmy condor]

I dare not hurt myself like that

[iron orchid]

Well then, I'll keep on trying it harder then x)

I manage to get 3k3 in +5 keys but i have to put my entire soul and body in every pull

that's sad, especially when i play with friends on specs that burst down packs

[strange python]

ya i just tried sin again

takes everything you have for so little return rn haha

made me realize how much i missed hitting and running with dots

but sub is just so much better rn, hope we get fixed for the tuning

[strange python]

!bis

[prisma monolith]

Whispyrs Bis list: http://tiny.cc/76r5tz

[stoic needle]

Looking at herodamage Doomblade sims so dissapointingly compared to zoldyck.. I hope they rebalance the legendaries a bit at some point

[plain onyx]

Will "Zoldyck Insignia" 100% drop if i finish torghast or it might not ? Coz I've been farming dungeons and it didn't drop

[iron orchid]

Yeah I think that's 100%

[supple compass]

It is

[plain onyx]

It'll drop from the boss on 6th floor right ?

[iron orchid]

Any boss from 3rd floor and on

[plain onyx]

Ahh, okay thanks

[balmy condor]

its close to 100%

some people have to do multiple runs from what I hear

but it drops very close to that from 3+

raid legendaries are 100%

[silver topaz]

Does sepsis buff garrote ?

[balmy condor]

no

sepsis allows the USAGE of a stealth ability, it does not grant the EFFECTS of stealth

so no ma, no subt, no nightstalker, etc

[silver topaz]

Ah rip, so I'm guessing sepsis is used for an ambush instead of mutilate, or a use of cheap shot

[balmy condor]

yep

[silver topaz]

Damn, gonna be annoying getting the muscle memory for that

Thanks for the quick response :)

[plain onyx]

Btw, is there any difference between Torghast and Colheart Interstitia ?

[balmy condor]

torghast is the area that contains coldheart

[stoic needle]

I did coldheart lvl 4 a few minutes ago and got zoldyck

[plain onyx]

yeah I'm on coldheart lvl 3 rn

[atomic gate]

I and everyone in my guild got memories from 3rd floor bosses or higher 1st try

Mythic dungeon feels like 25%

Heroic feels like 15%

I'd guess normal is 5-10

[plain onyx]

yeah i spammed mythics for like 2 hours straight and no luck at all

guess Torghast is the only thing left lol

[strange python]

2k above the tank, or am I reading this wrong?

0,2

[fleet whale]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/26

[drifting imp]

i just tried out CT for a few dungeons, i'm a bit struggling to fit it into my rotation, where do i put it? i start with 3-4 garrote, then snd and after that ct and then rupture? i'm a bit overwhelmed

[fleet whale]

clearly assassin is a good progress spec

/s

[calm dome]

@strange python you are right .
The 3 dps ( including me ) + the Tank ( Palprot ) were 190ilvl with 1 lego each

[outer pond]

!stats

[prisma monolith]

**Shadowlands: ** Haste > Versatility => Critical Strike => Mastery

[balmy condor]

3 garrotes into a fok into a CT

then you fok into ruptures and pray you can get enough cp to rupture stuff before the garrotes run out

[drifting imp]

oh i'm familiar with that praying part

thanks for the answer 🙂

[finite oxide]

in pulls that died somewhat faster I found with enough haste I got decent mileage out of triple garrote then keeping rupture and garrote up on a single target and FOK to 5 then CT spamming until the garrotes ran out

[strange python]

I got the Zoldyck Insignia memory should i go for it?

[balmy condor]

if you're planning on playing sin

yes

[finite oxide]

if you can stick with sub/outlaw a little longer I'd wait for monday or tuesday

in case of buffs

[stoic needle]

four more days

[lost hedge]

Sorry if this is a dumb question but in previous expansions Assassination stacked mastery but now our BiS stats are crit/haste/vers depending on what you're doing. So why all of a sudden is mastery not that good for us?

[balmy condor]

cause they changed how mastery works going into bfa to affect bleeds as well

and also gutted poison damage pretty hard

so mastery just doesn't do much anymore

then they added slice and dice, which made melee hits strong

so vers became good

crit has always been good for cp and general damage, haste makes bleeds tick faster, more energy

[gleaming eagle]

haste make bleed tick faster?

had no idea

[balmy condor]

yep

that's why we haste stacked in 8.3

and hard pushed exsang

I remember the theoretical maximum tick rate was something like once every 0.2 seconds or something like that

[lost hedge]

Oh damn, okay that makes more sense. Thank you for clearing that up

[plain onyx]

!guide

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
RH: https://www.ravenholdt.net/guides/assassination-rogue-guide-shadowlands-raid-dps/
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide

[gray fjord]

@balmy condor Was this you?

[balmy condor]

bold of you to think I'm doing heroic, AND playing sin

[gray fjord]

XD ❤️

Rank 1 parse though, better pretty poggers or whatever

[finite oxide]

I'm doing that tonight

I don't know why

I'll let you know if the tank passes me

[gray fjord]

💔 xD Oof

[finite oxide]

I just...hate sub so much, and I already made zoldyck's

[gray fjord]

I've legit never seen that in my life, I was looking through parses just while waiting for a video to render and I was like "Oh no one did the fight as assassination yet, that's pretty lame" and then I saw the blip of 1

XD

[finite oxide]

what fight is that?

[gray fjord]

Kael'thas /Sun King Salvation

So super heavy AoE fight

[finite oxide]

I did that on normal and saw there were a couple ways to not be 100% useless

but I will be 95% useless

[gray fjord]

xD Crippling poison utility!

Slow them runners down

[finite oxide]

don't other specs get cripp

[gray fjord]

... Maybe

[finite oxide]

they do lol

and shiv

[gray fjord]

I was trying to give you that 5% my man

[balmy condor]

I honestly can't stand sub in raids

[finite oxide]

LOL

[gray fjord]

xD 💔

[balmy condor]

like in keys, its fine

get into raid, have to take weaponmaster mos

and I'm just so sad

[gray fjord]

Eh, Subtlety is kinda whatever to me. I don't mind it but the AoE rotation is kinda mongo slap 2 button once you hit 5+ targets which is silly feeling.

[balmy condor]

yeah idk why I find it fun tbh, cause I'm usually not into mongo

but I don't mind it in m+

I think the cooldown planning keeps its a live for me

and sectec

[gray fjord]

I guess to be fair, outlaw doesn't really have an 'aoe' rotation in existence. so it's equally mongo due to that? /shrug o_o

[finite oxide]

isn't outlaw AoE rotation "single target but slower"

[balmy condor]

its single target but hit a button first

[gray fjord]

Yeah, playstyle virtually doesn't change other than hit Blade Flurry

xD

[balmy condor]

imo, if sin is unplayable in keys, I'm chillin

as long as its playable in raids

but after a week of raiding on sub

kinda really sick of it

[gray fjord]

Fair. I don't know exactly how viable assassination could be M+ wise, I don't even know where to start as far as improving that aspect of it. Other than like getting echoing blades back or something.

Magic 8 ball says 9% across the board tuning dialed up with this week's inevitable tuning pass.

[balmy condor]

I think if its 9%, It would be close enough for me to play

but it would be dog in m+ still XD

[gray fjord]

Oh of course.

XD

But after looking at the numbers and knowing the fights, even if assassination is slightly lower in throughput it would be viable due to uptime with about that much % I bet.

[stone epoch]

I was doing keys with guildees, working my ass off, on top of everything. New windwalker beat me on a sloppy rotation. Feels bad man

Sticking through it though

[real bay]

ww does pretty decent dmg

atleaat in dungs

[stone epoch]

Oh yeah def

[mossy sable]

Thats why I don't like it

It feels weird to do

[ornate dawn]

Got dashing legendary this evening, now to try craft the boots as well as my current Zoldyck leggings... yall got any of that souls ash spare?

[finite oxide]

I might just be imagining it but is doing more damage than it was earlier today? don't get your hopes up I might just be having a hope hallucination

[balmy condor]

is what doing more damage

[finite oxide]

dewrp

assassination

like in general

[balmy condor]

Drink some water

Dehydration no joke

Stay healthy man

[finite oxide]

there's clearly a lot of water in that shimmering oasis on the horizon

[balmy condor]

[finite oxide]

I just have to

trudge

[vocal umbra]

guys rogue night fae is a waste ? right now just go kyrian ?

[finite oxide]

none are a waste rn

pick what's most interesting/fun for you

[vocal umbra]

i have 2 rogues already one bastion and one in maldraxxus im thinking if a go bastion again or night fae

[finite oxide]

I stand by necrolord rogue being fun

[vocal umbra]

but night fae that thing ppl can dispel the covenant hability sucks

[fleet whale]

sub is overrated for this raid and logs are showing it

outlaw is the true meta

[finite oxide]

I'm down with that

[hazy iron]

Way too many cleave targets for OL not to be meta

[finite oxide]

I'm going to get some orange parses as sin in heroic tonight

participation oranges

[hazy iron]

Man i hope it gets buffed

[fleet whale]

lol, sub is already arguing that outlaw isn't actually meta

even though BF is busted for nathria

[hazy iron]

People just being insecure about being wrong

[fleet whale]

and of course the "outlaw is only higher on logs cause it has less players"

[hazy iron]

Lmao

[fleet whale]

just look at sub right now

when i brought it up... black powder being better on sun king lol

[little basalt]

Sub is an interesting place rn

To watch, at least

[low girder]

idk how anyone can actually do sun king

and come to the conclusion sub is better

[fleet whale]

cause black powder hits 8 targets

apparently lol

[low girder]

rofl

[fleet whale]

like i said... sub is overhyped

community is partially to blame, and pvp vids

[little basalt]

I think it's just a lot of excitement about the spec coming back from the dead

[low girder]

i play sub on it but that's because a) i made a leggo and b) i haven't played outlaw enough yet to actually be good at it on a new fight

[little basalt]

It'll die down eventually.

[fleet whale]

it has over 10k parses atm on heroic

outlaw 3k

[little basalt]

This version of outlaw is actually really great. I wasn't a fan of the RTB change but with count the odds and MFD outlaw is some of the most fun I've had doing m+ in a long time

[finite oxide]

this is the first expansion in my 10 years of playing rogue that I remember sub feeling like a more thought-out and complete spec than sin, esp with the addition of black powder

[little basalt]

And with celerity outlaw ST is respectable

[low girder]

i play it, i don't hate it, it's just not gonna compare to sub based on what gear i have and that i made a sub leggo

[fleet whale]

sub still feels weird, black powder is the strangest addition in the game

[little basalt]

I would give anything for a shrouded legendary. I miss playing assa in keys

[low girder]

once tuning is done i can decide if i want to keep going with sub or try to dualspec

[fleet whale]

sin basically needs an aoe revamp

[low girder]

r1 isn't gonna set me back much

at least at the level i play at

[little basalt]

I'm just crafting r1s for now. I have celerity and MA made, I eventually want to grab finality but I don't raid so I'll have to wait till I can pug denathrius

[fleet whale]

ironically enough.. despite the spec struggling... i'm leveling havoc and actually having fun

i have more faith in blizz tuning havoc right over sin

[little basalt]

Yikes lmao

[fleet whale]

very popular hybrid dps spec vs one of the three dps specs a pure class has available

[little basalt]

Maybe then the sub channel will go back to normal lol

[fleet whale]

blizz will likely buff sin

but i don't think they'll pay much attention to it

[little basalt]

I think so, but probably not to the point where anyone will seriously play it over the other two

[fleet whale]

blizz has a higher incentive to buff specs like havoc

over sin

[little basalt]

9.1 I bet they'll add shrouded suff as a legendary

Yeah that makes sense

[fleet whale]

my dream scenario is sin "revamp" in 9.1

or for the love of god do something about the talent tree

[little basalt]

Bring back kingsbane

[fleet whale]

that would be a nice start

but oddly kingsbane has a mixed response

a lot of players love it

and no offense to them but some of the TCers and well known rogues don't like it that much

[little basalt]

That's interesting. I never actually played with it, just seemed cool. I will never not regret quitting right in the beginning of legion

[finite oxide]

!bis

[prisma monolith]

Whispyrs Bis list: http://tiny.cc/76r5tz

[finite oxide]

how's phial of putrefaction rn 🤔

[balmy condor]

It’s aight

[finite oxide]

sweet

[silk lance]

5%

[candid jasper]

Is 5% enough to save sin?

The fundamental problem with sin feels more like a gameplay issue

[velvet geyser]

LOL

[strange python]

blizzard trolling

Rogue
Assassination
All damage abilities increased by 5%.

[warm peak]

5%

[plain thistle]

not really, sin just need a number tunning

[serene basin]

imma cry

[surreal hawk]

5%

[karmic cedar]

realistically there were not going to be any other changes than a damage buff

[strange python]

LMFAO

[karmic cedar]

but still, lol

[surreal hawk]

ofc they pulled the 5% buff card

[supple compass]

bruh 5

[frigid kestrel]

Roflamo

[quiet finch]

rip

5 only

[left relic]

5 lol

[surreal hawk]

they should have just slapped some more attackspeed on slice and dice

[left relic]

Guess I’m switching to my Hunter

[frigid kestrel]

It’s better then nothing, but is it enough to put us at the very least in the middle of the pack?

[storm forum]

5%

[supple compass]

i dont think its nearly enough

[serene basin]

hardly

[frigid kestrel]

Because if we get to the middle of the pack I’m swapping yesterday

[supple compass]

defs not middle of the pacl

[plucky gale]

its still gonna be bottom

[old snow]

it got us closer to second to last

not to the middle

lol

5% by 5% and we wont be last dps anymore

[somber thistle]

ya but all the low specs got 5% so really does it move us anywhere

[plucky gale]

^

[old snow]

ye as i said, we are still last

even if others didnt get it

so it doesnt really matter

[hollow barn]

!guide

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
RH: https://www.ravenholdt.net/guides/assassination-rogue-guide-shadowlands-raid-dps/
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide

[slender berry]

Guys I heard assa is fotm now , huge buffs

[dire jackal]

https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/class-tuning-in-progress-dec-15/771191

assa buffs

on the table

[old snow]

assa buffs, more like blizzard taking a piss on us

[dire jackal]

it's something breh

[pastel notch]

[old snow]

you would think that it is, but it actually isnt, and it just means we wont get anything for quite a while prob

[pastel notch]

https://tenor.com/view/salt-bae-sprinkling-salt-gif-7535412

[earnest hedge]

is 5% significant enough to matter?

[old snow]

nop

we were like 15-20% behind before

and all other shit specs got 5% too

so we are still rock bottom

[pastel notch]

just play sub 🙂

[old snow]

i am

and i hate it

[storm quest]

@old snow me too buddy

i hate it here. lemme BOISIN people

[earnest hedge]

already playing sub lol

[old snow]

its like im not even asking for assa to be good, just make is so that if i play assa im not trolling

thats all im asking

[storm quest]

^^^^^

[dire jackal]

do u play on earthsaker ?

[storm quest]

we cant even keep up with outlaw its so sad

[pastel notch]

[atomic gate]

5% kek

[pastel notch]

I quit Classic @dire jackal but yah, that is me ^^

[atomic gate]

Preliminary is their wording tho

[high siren]

that buff tho

[atomic gate]

And they will be playing around with ideas over the weekend I think

[dire jackal]

same lel just funny to see classic players everywhere

[elfin tiger]

are they fucking joking?

5%?

[dire jackal]

yeah it might become more

atleast theyre looking into it right..?

[atomic gate]

I expect it'll be 10% in the end

[pastel notch]

There's a lot from ES on Kazzak

[atomic gate]

Drag the 4k+ specs down to 3700

[dire jackal]

mages and locks left to dry

[atomic gate]

Pull the weak ones up

[elfin tiger]

https://i.imgur.com/sgPAl9v.png

[dire jackal]

yeah i know i got into a random dungo with a GUK SUKKER a while back

[shadow tulip]

5%

[elfin tiger]

yeah this is gonna affect them so much

[old snow]

10% might mby possibly do something

[elfin tiger]

unholy still broken as crap

[old snow]

but id say we need AT LEAST 15 to be viable

[elfin tiger]

and assassin +5%

[atomic gate]

^

At least this is proof they know our spec is struggling

[shadow tulip]

Struggling?

[old snow]

ye but after this they are going to feel like they did something and just forget about us

[elfin tiger]

if they do +30% assassin can match unholy's dps

[old snow]

like "you got your 5%, now shut up"

[elfin tiger]

[atomic gate]

We just need to post on the forum more bro

[shadow tulip]

It's a crippled mess freestyling on the ground

[old snow]

last time i checked there were like 80 parses on assa

[shadow tulip]

Trying to crawl back to the wheelchair

[old snow]

there just isnt that many of us

not enaugh for them to hear

[shadow tulip]

[elfin tiger]

because it literally doesnt do any damage

they fucked it up

[old snow]

yes obviously

where is whispyr to cry with us

[weary marten]

it's basically the same as BFA without double dose and shrouded suffocation ... gg wp no re

[shadow tulip]

@balmy condor

[old snow]

i knew i should have just went to sleep

didnt have to get depressin before bed

[elfin tiger]

assassin kinda sucks in M+ without SS

[uneven cradle]

WE MIGHT BE GOOD AGAIN?

[old snow]

no

[weary marten]

LMAO

[fallow otter]

not enough

[elfin tiger]

feels like crap to play

[old snow]

not even remotly closly enaugh

unless they raise that to 15% before live, dont even bother

[weary marten]

if i was in balance team, i would buff SP

not strong enough

Kappa

[old snow]

i am convinced blizzard did it for the meme

cause we were joking with the 5% before

they just did it to fuck with us

[shadow tulip]

Shhhhhh

They might be evesdropping

[old snow]

id be ok with that, that would mean they atleast care enaugh to be here

[shadow tulip]

Or nerf it back, just for the lolz

[elfin tiger]

im not a scientist but looking at this https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/26 I would say assassin needs at least 15-20% to be even relevant

[old snow]

ye thats what i said

[atomic gate]

That Unholy nerf lmao

[old snow]

if they dont raise it up to 15% before live its like it didnt even happen

[atomic gate]

"all that gearing you did for Mastery? Well fuck you, regear yourself now"

[supple compass]

i actually did a double take

thought my eyes were blurry

[shadow tulip]

Why did I even check the chart...

[nimble tartan]

LETS GO BOYS 5% I ALWAYS KNEW ID BE BACK

[atomic gate]

This must just be a quick write up to get people to stop asking

[nimble tartan]

https://tenor.com/view/champagne-shower-celebration-gif-16059664

[mystic charm]

assa back with the 5% buff ? Xdddd

[atomic gate]

They will be doing testing over the weekend

[nimble tartan]

this me and all my sin boys

[old snow]

yes, but instead of champagne its our tears

[shadow tulip]

Hellpoker y u do dis

[balmy pewter]

the sin dream will never die

[tawny shell]

Assa maybe good last boss with execute

[shadow tulip]

Not on the bench

[tawny shell]

[old snow]

now idk how goof blizzard is with math

but that line doesnt look liek 5% to me

more like 50%

[elfin tiger]

[hardy oak]

blizzs balance team giving sin 5% dmg buff

[balmy pewter]

nah bro just flip it around it will be better

[old snow]

yo mby they forgot the 0

they will eddit it for live to be 50%

[shadow tulip]

https://tenor.com/view/doing-math-wrong-answer-bad-calculations-gif-16684031

Blizz calculating assa buff

[sudden canyon]

will the 5% buff do anything

[old snow]

yes

[nimble tartan]

lol

[old snow]

give depressin

to assassin

[granite bramble]

Blizzard be like

[sudden canyon]

hit for 105 instead of 100

poggies

[sinful linden]

5% its like nothing

[old snow]

its not like nothing

it IS nothing

[sinful linden]

xDDD

[old snow]

5% of shit is still shit

[atomic gate]

The 5% is worse than it looks isn't it? Cuz what defines our "damage abilities"?

Do auto attacks fall into that definition?

[old snow]

now if it was 15% of shit, then it would be a whole lot of shit and we could do something

i believe they do not

[balmy condor]

Oh my god

[old snow]

holy fuck

[balmy condor]

Can y’all calm the fuck down

[old snow]

its not even 5% dmg

[balmy condor]

Holy shit

[old snow]

its just 5% spells

[atomic gate]

Not even DP?

[finite oxide]

I'll calm down by 5%

[atomic gate]

Autos and DP are like 40% of our dmg lmao

[old snow]

🙂

just pain

smiling through it all

[elfin tiger]

my rupture is gonna tick for 105 now

[atomic gate]

Ayyyyy we got a 3% buff guys

[elfin tiger]

[atomic gate]

Let's fucking gooo

[balmy condor]

I literally wake up from a nap

And this channel imploded

[old snow]

you should have stayed asleep @balmy condor

[shadow tulip]

DP? Double penetration?

[balmy condor]

Have you learned nothing of patience and virtue

[shadow tulip]

i have none of that, whispy

Sue me

[finite oxide]

so they might give us a second buff two weeks from now? :P

[old snow]

dont have patience and virtue, best i can do for you is low numbers and depression

[knotty bear]

These aren't final notes

[granite bramble]

Blizzard be like: another 5%, best we can do

[old snow]

take it or leave it

[balmy condor]

It’s okay to not be the best spec guys

Breathe into a bag for little

You’ll live

[old snow]

i just wanna be able to play my spec and not feel like a troll

[finite oxide]

As we test, the above are subject to change before Wednesday. If we do have further changes, we’ll update here as soon as possible.

As always, this is not a comprehensive list of all adjustments we might make to the game. In particular, we’re considering tweaks to several classes’ Torghast powers.

so no the 5% is not final, even by reset

[old snow]

ye we said that

[finite oxide]

they're about to get some mythic data too

[old snow]

but they woulkd have to make it 15

and i doubt theyll do that

[finite oxide]

I'd even take 10 tbh

[latent field]

5%

[balmy condor]

5% is fine

Be happy we got anything

[cobalt gyro]

someone has to be bottom of the charts

[balmy condor]

Sub was literally disposed of the entire expansion

Just take the 5%

[shadow tulip]

I checked logs earlier today(eu) and closed it crying after shriekwing

[urban thistle]

XD

I knew

that when i clicked on this channel

[cobalt gyro]

buff it too much tho and it makes sin take over over the other specs, especially with zoldyck execute

[urban thistle]

the first thing I would see would be 5%

[balmy condor]

I’m gone for 20 minutes

And it turns into a zoo

Cause people can’t stand not being bis

[old snow]

well blizzard does take us for apes

so it checks out

[balmy condor]

No they don’t

[finite oxide]

are you going to be playing sin whispyr?

[balmy condor]

I will, yes

[finite oxide]

ayyy

same

[deft vault]

difference between not being bis and not being viable tho

[old snow]

yo thats me

[regal cape]

Mage buffs are in!

[finite oxide]

so far even in M+ I'm on the low end of passable if I pump in M+

[balmy condor]

5% is good enough to bring us in line with other specs

[finite oxide]

in 7's and 8's

[balmy condor]

We’re not like omega dead last anymore

[old snow]

but you see, other specs got 5% too

[cobalt gyro]

u gotta understand a lot of these parses are also without legendaries

[old snow]

so it doesnt, not really

[cobalt gyro]

since a lot of the good players didn't craft any

[finite oxide]

I mean putting some distance between us and prot pallies is nice, 5% will do that

[cobalt gyro]

sin can only go up with them

[elfin tiger]

blood dk can actively out dps assassin now

[balmy condor]

I swear to god the next bad MS paint screenshot of Warcraftlogs getting deleted

[dry sapphire]

i feel like sin is in a fine spot now, they are behind sub in ST, but excel in 2-3 target cleave

houndmaster sin is gonna own

[cobalt gyro]

also the UH nerf doesnt seem like a lot but

[pastel notch]

Sin is class for Mythic progress too always

[cobalt gyro]

almost all their dmg is from their pets and shadow dmg

so that nerf is basically the nerf to all of that

[finite oxide]

I can confirm that with zoldyck's, huntsman was pretty good with sin. 5% would put me about on par with the outlaw rogue

[lost sentinel]

5% doesnt seem to be enough right?

[empty cradle]

is sin's best lego the hxh one?

[balmy condor]

5% is literally fine

[cobalt gyro]

5% is fine

[balmy condor]

It’s fine.

Just fine

[latent field]

But we can meme about it tho

[balmy condor]

It’s not going to put us above outlaw for most things

[lost sentinel]

okay, lemme rephrase, is it fine?

[river ore]

5% isn't shit

[balmy condor]

You can meme about it all you want

But this is okay

[finite oxide]

I sim for around 3300 as mut rn and the 5% will put me at 3465ish. it's not nothing

[cobalt gyro]

i mean if it was 10% rogue play on mythic would just be zoldyck execute

[lost sentinel]

I remember people were saying 10-15% would be enough

[cobalt gyro]

thats all ud play it for

[balmy condor]

Just keep it to memes and not doomsaying, trolling, and general shitposting

[little root]

[latent field]

[old snow]

@finite oxide no cause its not 5% dmg, its 5% ability dmg

so even less

[little root]

lookit this dood

[river ore]

Lol

[balmy condor]

I would also wait to see if 5% ability is actually ability or if it’s all damage

Cause blizzard is very vague

Constantly on that

[old snow]

im just going about the way they worded it

but either way

potato potato

[dry sapphire]

i feel like its ability damage if they intentionally wrote out 'ability damage' though

[balmy condor]

And I’m telling you

That they can be vague

[dry sapphire]

that's the opposite of vague lol

[balmy condor]

It might be everything except autos

[dry sapphire]

do u know what vague means

[balmy condor]

I do

[dry sapphire]

vague would just be "damage"

[balmy condor]

That’s why I’m using it

[little root]

[old snow]

first stage of grief is denial whisp, all im saying

[balmy condor]

I’ve been in this fucking channel through all of beta

We’re past denial

Do you think I like seeing sin at the bottom?

[cobalt gyro]

yes

[balmy condor]

And all the crying and bitching?

[cobalt gyro]

you hate rogue

[elfin tiger]

How the fk are you saying +5% is fine

all other specs got +5%

[cobalt gyro]

how are you saying 5% isnt

[elfin tiger]

youre literally gonna feel nothing

[grizzled jay]

Nice called the 5% buff

[cobalt gyro]

yes someone has to be at the bottom

[elfin tiger]

the charts will stay the same

[river ore]

Fury got 5% lmao

[elfin tiger]

not with this difference

havoc was mid pack and got +5%

[balmy condor]

Is crying about it here, going to make it better

[dry sapphire]

"aLl tHe oTheR sPeccS"

HAVOC MIDDLE OF THE PACK

[little root]

but whispyr dont worry cause sin will ✨scale✨ better

[balmy condor]

I hate you

[old snow]

it makes soul hurt a bit less

[little root]

rofl

[cobalt gyro]

what would u want

[balmy wyvern]

[cobalt gyro]

a +15% buff

[old snow]

yes

[cobalt gyro]

just so ur #1 dps then get nerfed?

lmao

[old snow]

ty

[balmy condor]

Sin has been the best spec for like 6 years now. It’s okay

You don’t have to top every meter

[old snow]

no i dont, and i dont want to

[dry sapphire]

if u care so much about numbers why not just play what spec is good

[old snow]

but outdpssing hunter pets would be rad

[dry sapphire]

if u like sin play sin, if u care about numbers play a diff spec

[old snow]

i do

i play sub

i hate it

[shadow tulip]

Same

[river ore]

^

[finite oxide]

could you play outlaw? that's apparently doing very well in nathria

[old snow]

i wanna be assa and not feel like troll and inting

[finite oxide]

I'm probably going to have outlaw as backup because I also hate sub

[river ore]

Yep

Outlaw is a lot of juggling

[old snow]

set up my outlaw keybinds today and trying it out

[finite oxide]

the question is whether or not I want to upgrade zoldyck's 🤔

[somber bison]

sub

[grizzled jay]

Havoc was bottom 5

So was Fury

[finite oxide]

you don't have to play sub if you don't want to, even if sin were removed outlaw is perfectly fine

[fallow otter]

can expect more for sin imo dont stress

[grizzled jay]

Why are people saying they didn't deserve 5%

[finite oxide]

I know we all hate sub

[fallow otter]

nup

[cobalt gyro]

because

[fallow otter]

i play rogue not sin

[dense blaze]

Call me crazy but it's pretty fun

[cobalt gyro]

ppl wanna be #1 dps

and only #1

[old snow]

no

but they dont want to be dead last

by huge margin

[shadow tulip]

STRAWMEN

[old snow]

there is a difference

[grizzled jay]

Is it that huge

[cobalt gyro]

its really not a huge margin

[shadow tulip]

Yes lul

[cobalt gyro]

wow

[balmy condor]

It’s huge enough for people to lose their shit

[cobalt gyro]

so large.

SO LARGE

[spice spire]

warrior, both specs were bad enough to get buffed

so?

[shadow tulip]

Odo, stop being dishonest gtfo pls?

[cobalt gyro]

how is that dishonest

[balmy condor]

Remember what I said my

[verbal mantle]

[cobalt gyro]

compared to comparing it to fkin rank 1

[knotty bear]

That pathetic paint pic is dishonest

[cobalt gyro]

then being like

LMAO WE SUCK

AFKHDSBAFDS

;ADSHLFJASD

like

lmao

[old snow]

yes

its group therapy

[balmy condor]

Next bad MS paint go deleto

[grizzled jay]

What are you highlighting there

[cobalt gyro]

UH is known OP

[verbal mantle]

y'all should stop with that kind of screenshots tho

[old snow]

well that one is just a repost

[cobalt gyro]

and got a big nerf

that's very dishonest

yes sin is behind but it's not like it's 30% less than fury

[knotty bear]

At least compare it to mid pack, not overtuned spec lols

[balmy condor]

We’re gonna be fine

[spice spire]

but fury was also bad enough to warrant a buff?

5% is fine

[shadow tulip]

Son max less then others min

[cobalt gyro]

yeah fury was p bad

[balmy condor]

It’s better than 0%

[spice spire]

it'll bring sin in line with a lot of things

[balmy condor]

And we’re gonna be happy

[spice spire]

The S word

[balmy condor]

None of that

[dawn merlin]

eh, it's something

[molten trellis]

So, from what I understand sin will still be at the bottom, but the difference from the first and the last is lower

[balmy condor]

Yes

[dawn merlin]

pretty much

[balmy condor]

That’s exactly what it is

We might not even be last

[molten trellis]

Bummer, I wished for a 10%

[balmy condor]

Tbh

[finite oxide]

why's there a joke about no one being allowed to talk about scaling

[grizzled jay]

Sin also has the least amount of Heroic parses. So it's not really viable data to say where it truly lies as the "good" Rogues are Sub/Outlaw.

[finite oxide]

I thought sin did scale well

[balmy condor]

It’s not a joke

[finite oxide]

well I mean

[balmy condor]

It’s blatant misinformation

About how specs work

[finite oxide]

oh

[balmy condor]

And how the game works

[spiral bough]

Oh, guess i said something wrong?

[balmy condor]

Sin doesn’t “scale” with gear

Any more than anything else

It gets faster because it gets haste

[finite oxide]

oic

[balmy condor]

That doesn’t mean it does better

Or gets better

Or becomes viable

Or beats other specs

Or anything

[grizzled jay]

Specs don't scale, they either have broken systems or don't.

Be it tier gear, Azerite, legendary, whatever.

[spiral bough]

rgr. Just repeating stuff i hear/read.

Won't mention that again lol

[shadow tulip]

@grizzled jay ofc there are no parses, there's no damage either

[fallow otter]

good news is sin is on the table

[spice spire]

^

[molten trellis]

Ye, at least it is on their radar

[fallow otter]

doesnt mean they will bring it inline

[grizzled jay]

@shadow tulip But the parses show even less damage than it probably does cause skilled Rogues aren't playing it.

[fallow otter]

but its a good start

[balmy condor]

Thank god for you guys with a brain

[grizzled jay]

The reason Survival always is top 10 every tier despite having low parses is it has dedicated, world-class players. Sin doesn't have that.

[shadow tulip]

Are eu servers down? App doesn't connect to the server

[dawn merlin]

they are

maintenance

[shadow tulip]

Huh?

It's saturday tho

[dawn merlin]

sat 3 to 4 cet

ye

i know

[shadow tulip]

Should pay more attention tjen

[balmy condor]

Did they announce it

[shadow tulip]

Planned midweek hotfixes?

[sly flume]

yall think the 5% buff will make assa more viable ?

[balmy condor]

Or is it just unannounced

[balmy condor]

More yes, outlaw will still be the play

[marble hemlock]

i still see 0 reason to ever play assa on any nathria boss, including ones that need big execute

so the buff changed my desire to play assa in raid from 0 to 0

[sly flume]

i just like the spec thats why

[marble hemlock]

i think most of us do

[balmy condor]

If you like the spec

It’s a welcome change

As all tunings are that go up

[dawn merlin]

no clue, just saw it on the client once there was the ingame warning

[balmy condor]

But it’s not gonna be enough

[indigo mulch]

I just feel like sub/outlaw is just so much better. D:

[balmy condor]

It’s something though

[static sky]

I think it’s a great start

[grizzled jay]

I said they'd do 5% and then probably another 5% in 9.1.

[shadow tulip]

That's trolling

[grizzled jay]

Blizzard doesn't care if all dps specs within a class are competitive with each other, only that one of the specs in a class are competitive against the rest of the roster.

[static sky]

They’ll prob treat it like prot warr in early bfa

[placid dawn]

lol, 5% buff, still bottom tier spec

[balmy condor]

Someone’s gotta be, and that’s okay

They brought the top down, and the bottom up

And that’s all we want

[shadow tulip]

We're still not saying nobody has to be bottom

[balmy condor]

Yes, and this time it’s our turn

[shadow tulip]

But with THAT margian...

[grizzled jay]

nah Whispyr since Sin didn't receive a 30% buff therefore Blizzard hates the spec 🙂

[static sky]

Surprised they didn’t touch boomy

[balmy condor]

What margin

[fallow otter]

@marble hemlock sin will need more tuning before i would craft a legend to even be able to compete but i wouldnt mind using it on huntsman, sub feels like shit

[balmy condor]

The margin between sin and the other bottom 5 specs?

[somber bison]

and by top you mean uh dk

[balmy condor]

That’s a margin of like 1.5%

[fallow otter]

in saying that, celerity just gonna be the better choice atm

[strange python]

We are all on suicide watch.

[grizzled jay]

btw Sin has a better average score on WCL than: Fury, Frost, Destro

[balmy condor]

We literally got a buff

[marble hemlock]

i mean from what i can say so far

[grizzled jay]

It is not the worst spec

[balmy condor]

This is a buff

[marble hemlock]

you run sub on first boss and last 2, and outlaw on the rest /shrug

well, i will

[grizzled jay]

you'll notice that Sin has the highest floor

[balmy condor]

Celebrate the buff, instead of being mad that it’s not enough

[marble hemlock]

nah

[grizzled jay]

That makes it not the worst spec

[marble hemlock]

lets not set the bar this low

[balmy condor]

Okay now that’s a weird angle

[marble hemlock]

this buff shouldve happened 6months ago in alpha

[hybrid crystal]

i like buffs

[mossy sable]

Sooo buffs

[balmy condor]

After sub in bfa, I think setting bar low and slowly raising it is fine

[deft vault]

judging a class by their floor is a stupid idea imo

[marble hemlock]

its a weird acknowledgment of "yeah, assa looks bad lets buff it" with no clear indication that they understand how much it sucks or what it needs to be changed

[fallow otter]

we all know you sin is super forgiving lol

[grizzled jay]

the issue with sub in bfa was that we told them in Legion during Maiden prog that Combo was op lol

[marble hemlock]

setting the bar low and slowly raising it is what made sub unplayable the rest of the expac

[fallow otter]

now... if sin gets the aura + last row fix, this could be the move haha

[balmy condor]

Except we had nothing to raise

We set the bar at “buffs” and they didn’t come

[marble hemlock]

first version of tfd made sub playable again

smol buffs, if anything, indicate that theyre complacent after the buff

[shadow tulip]

Replace FoK talent with SS and we're gucci

[marble hemlock]

historically stuff was either buffed/nerfed into oblivion because they overshot, or they were barely impactful

i dont recall any of those aurabuffs ever making me think "wow, now this spec is viable"

[sudden canyon]

u konw what. 5% might not be alot but at least theyre willing to make changes more readily. unlike butchering a spec and leaving it like that for the rest of the xpac which theyre known to do

[marble hemlock]

its to lower the difference between top and bottom performers, but it doesnt actually change anything, and anyone with a decent ambition in a competitive pve environment will ultimately not change course

[somber bison]

maybe they just forgot an 1 before that 5

[shadow tulip]

They must have a metric on how many ppl use what talents, right?

[balmy condor]

Warcraftlogs has that, yes

[shadow tulip]

Like all those 3 ppl using fok talent past tier

Last**

[marble hemlock]

"atleast theyre willing to make changes more readily" how can anyone say that, after theyve done basically 0 class tuning on alpha+beta, delayed all of it into retail, and then it takes them 3 weeks to make minor changes that dont even bring viability to classes that didnt have it before or nerfs massive outliers?

if they wanted to make changes more readily, then these series of buffs/nerfs wouldve happened a week ago, not in a week

to monitor the impact

[shadow tulip]

THIS

[marble hemlock]

and do another set this week, and another by the end of the week

[grizzled jay]

healer aura buffs are usually good enough

in relation to 'smol buffs means they are complacent', Resto Druid got buffs every patch in bfa.

(for raid)

[marble hemlock]

still didnt make them viable by the end of nya

:^)

[sudden canyon]

okay dont have to blow me the fuck out 🥺

[grizzled jay]

well they dont have Aura Mastery lol

[molten cosmos]

The Sub si too much in front to get Assa back anyways and the AoE Sub is strong so even 5% is not enough lmao