assassination

[balmy condor]

oh yeah

[hollow escarp]

only corruption can save sin

[strange python]

and necklface

neck lace

[fleet whale]

sin was good before corruption though

[strange python]

with that sexy haste

[hollow escarp]

haste for sin in bfa was pretty nice

[fleet whale]

haste also wasn't that amazing of a stat for assassin in EP

it dropped off after like 20% for most people

[hollow escarp]

talking about the change after legion when haste made bleeds/poisons tick faster

[fleet whale]

yes that was a nice change indeed

[stable urchin]

@balmy condor why weapons on BiS list are not showed on adventure guide

[hollow escarp]

isn't it from covenant?

[left relic]

so im in no way a serious raider and not pushing M+ will dashing be better for me right now over zoldyk?

[hollow escarp]

you can sim yourself on raidbots, just select ilvl and secondary stats in top gear and a bunch of legendaries will pop up to chose from and sim

[deft vault]

!bis

[prisma monolith]

Whispyrs Bis list: http://tiny.cc/76r5tz

[stable urchin]

oh im so stupid .... this daggers are from vendor

xD

[balmy condor]

:P

[stable urchin]

im sorry @balmy condor

[balmy condor]

I just figured it out as well

you had me concerned

for a while

[stable urchin]

😄

[balmy condor]

glanced over in my key like oh fuck

[stable urchin]

is to late for thinking xd

[pure edge]

Because I've never made a Rogue that got past level ...10 in the decade I've played is there a race on Horde that has a racial that actually benefits the class?

[balmy condor]

nop

[merry adder]

blood elf imho

[pure edge]

Blood Elf has a passive +10 to xmog but I prefer something more brutal like Orc or Pandaren

And I'm checking pins, I didn't see if the guides are up-to-date. Are the wowhead guides good to start learning with?

[merry adder]

racials are not that important tbh, play what you like

belf just has extra crit and a good aoe dispell/energy regen

[pure edge]

I know there's a safe increase for NElf Feral's so I wanted to check for other interesting stuff. (I severely dislike the BElf model and it's combat animations)

[merry adder]

and they're sexy but that's just me

if you want an orc rogue, go for it tbh
or undead. or whatever you like

[gray hazel]

Does haveing shdowcore oil on both weps make a difference? I assume it does

[balmy condor]

it doubles the effect unless there's something I'm missing

[pure edge]

Is there an ICD on the proc?

[balmy condor]

I assume so

[keen flare]

Is assassination as bad as everyone seems to be saying? Primarily for pvp

[balmy condor]

probably

might want to check in #pvp

[keen flare]

fair point friend

[mossy sable]

Hey question any idea if Blindside works with a stealth macro?

[balmy condor]

no

[mossy sable]

/use [spec:2,bonusbar:1]Ambush;[spec:2]Sinister Strike
/use [spec:1,bonusbar:1]Ambush;[spec:1]Mutilate```

Damn

[balmy condor]

!bs

[prisma monolith]

Macroing Ambush to Mutilate only works with the use of a addon.
It comes with the downside that it often requires multiple key presss.
Suggested addon to use(Gnome Sequencer):http://tiny.cc/mxb6tz
Showcase Video: #assassination message

[balmy condor]

@mossy sable

[mossy sable]

Hmm ok

Thanks

[deft vault]

oof assas is hella sad and i hate sub so damn much

[hollow escarp]

Outlaw is fun right now

I still play sub because of torghast healing and because I got no outlaw weapon

[deft vault]

What do people think assas will get for buffs?

[balmy condor]

Aura buff and that’s probably it

[deft vault]

What do you consider as aura buff?

[balmy condor]

Each spec has a hidden passive that increases all the damage done

So when it says “subtlety does 5% less damage” or “fire does 5% more damage”

They’re tweaking that hidden passive

That’s the aura

[deft vault]

ah gotchas

[balmy condor]

So we’ll see like maybe 10% on it

And then blizz says good enough

[grim mason]

whats the max ash you can hold this week?

[balmy condor]

2750 I think?

[grim mason]

man fuck torghats but i cant make my leggo

😦

[fleet whale]

aura buffs i think were added in legion to make tuning a little more straightforward

with that said, blizz will still do direct ability buffs

[main forge]

that's so genius for them to do that aura buff... but so silly that they took til legion to figure that out.

[red light]

does the bleed from doomblade legendary generate energy through the passive?

[deft vault]

no

[balmy condor]

Neither does bonespike from necrolord

[primal zinc]

!bis

[prisma monolith]

Whispyrs Bis list: http://tiny.cc/76r5tz

[cosmic rapids]

hey guys how are we comparing to the other 2

roughly

[balmy condor]

Very badly

[cosmic rapids]

😦

[desert swallow]

20% less damage compared to sub

[low girder]

Obv 2 days of logs but sin is dead last

In both difficulties

[finite oxide]

I was purple parsing as sin from the back of the pack in normal, for what normal parses even mean at this point

huntsman with zoldyck was pretty much the only boss I felt I performed adequately for my ilvl on

[balmy condor]

Well that means you’re basically the best of the worst

[finite oxide]

for an actual sin question for a change, should I shiv before envenom even at CP cap?

[balmy condor]

And a complicated question at that

I’m gonna say “probably fine ™️ “

[finite oxide]

making you do work for a dead spec

and thanks

[balmy condor]

It better to cast it and overcap than hold it at the very least

[finite oxide]

I can at least attest to Zoldyck's being a very spicy leggo in Nathria because I jump from 13th to like 8th at execute phase and start to creep up on the sub rogue if the phase lasts long enough. It'll be interesting to see how it performs when/if sin is actually made viable.

[uneven summit]

lets hope for just alittle sin love in the next class buff/nerf round

[finite oxide]

I feel like it's been buffed in the past under much less dire circumstances

[strange python]

fuck i just got zoldy and master assassin within an hour

was just gonna go master assassin

but now . . .

If they're going to buff something, they're going to buff sin. We are bottom of the dps by a huge margin. Can't really see other buffs being given without sin getting some love.

[vestal wren]

I hope they buff sin

And don't be like "rogue has 2decent specs"

[fallow otter]

Other classes have been stuck there for much longer without other dps options

Just from their track record

[vestal wren]

I don't agree with that

[fallow otter]

We have barely been bottom for a flash in the plan yet, it's only just started

[vestal wren]

Being significantly behind the 2nd worse should warrant abuff

[fallow otter]

Oh I agree

Im just saying it doesn't mean they will

[strange python]

Sin is the only dps in the 2,5k range

thanks for sobering me up, going master assassin for now haha, gonna be awhile before I collect enough good haste gear for zol

if they buff dps they'll buff sin.

[fallow otter]

The numbers don't lie but it doesn't mean they will give a fuck

[strange python]

I could see sin not getting a buff if they use the "sub and ol are decent" -argument, but it feels a bit cheap to me.

[finite oxide]

I don't remember exactly when it was but sometime in either early Legion or BFA sin was underperforming, not even in last place, and it got a >10% aura buff

[real bay]

blizz probably does give a fuck, I will eat my cats food if sin doesn't get a buff

buffs next Monday for sure

[finite oxide]

gonna quote you on that

[drifting imp]

I hope that you don't have to eat your cats food

[finite oxide]

I just noticed that prot paladins are very nearly competitive with us:

[drifting imp]

Nice

[frigid kestrel]

So from what i see if we can start Evasion tanking again it might make Sin viable again

[knotty bear]

Survival pumpin?

[low girder]

Survival's had pump tiers before, it just has the problem of being melee with 2 other ranged options, one of which is usually also pretty good

[knotty bear]

Yee. Sin logs make me sad tbh

[finite oxide]

survival was the only one that had fewer parses than sin

earlier tonight sin only had 33, survival 24

...er, wait, that was tuesday evening, I think.

[vestal wren]

Mm is not only good or average

But hunters try to say for 2 weeks now that rogues are op and that they, are average at best

[hollow escarp]

[finite oxide]

sub and outlaw seem to be doing fine

but yeah being closer in DPS to brewmaster than outlaw feels bad man

[vestal wren]

I wonder when balancing happen

Blizz did like 0 balancing so far

[hollow escarp]

most people that talk about rogue being OP they refer to pvp as if it's the same in pve

[vestal wren]

As if rogue is the only op pvp class

[hollow escarp]

yeah, I can notice that it's easier to kill people but the thing with rogues is control more than damage in general

[vestal wren]

I guess people are not good at being objective or looking at data

[hollow escarp]

yeah, I don't really take people seriously that say random stuff like that 😄

also when talking about pvp, if you manage to get an average rogue out of stealth, you already disarmed most of the power they have

[finite oxide]

balancing probably monday or tuesday

they always tune before mythic

[vestal wren]

They usually do

[hollow escarp]

I'm waiting for that myself before crafting a legendary, it's not like they are broken enough where balancing will make a difference, but who knows?

it's not like I'm gonna clear heroic this week anyway

[vestal wren]

I don't think that we see a lot of legendary changes

[hollow escarp]

not in legendary, but maybe abilities nerfs that will make other legendary shine brighter

probably won't happen, but still

[novel rivet]

how is assass stacking in m+, im new to rogue and trying to do some research as i approach 60 on it, im lvling as subt, but I thought assass sounded fun for m+

[proven ferry]

Really ? 😆 Stick to subtlety. Yesterday, I did let dps than paladin tank 😂

[urban thistle]

you will have a hard time finding groups

[novel rivet]

i main a prot pally, dont feel bad, they absolutely smash on big aoe pulls, their leggo is kinda bork

ill hjave a hard time as assass or subt?

[real bay]

man those graphs are funny. you can literally afk as UH and still do more dps

[cold rampart]

lethal poisons or well placed steel?

[low girder]

Conduits are in the pins, but WPS for ST, lethal for m+

[surreal hawk]

is ass rogue as bad as the statistic make it seem ?

[low girder]

It's pretty rough

[urban thistle]

It's pretty bad yea

[surreal hawk]

lets hope they get some buffs

[low girder]

Odds are pretty good, whether they'll be big enough to get them up to decent, who knows

[surreal hawk]

you never know with blizzard

[real bay]

easy to make sin raid viable, m+ not so sure

[surreal hawk]

just give slice and dice more attackspeed

[drifting cloud]

buffs are pretty much all but guaranteed, they just might not be good enough

when the last time logs have looked that bad

maybe feral in uldir?

[surreal hawk]

yeah

[low girder]

Could just get the sub treatment in 8.2 lol

Here's 5% now shut up

[surreal hawk]

they love that 5%

[real bay]

thats fine if they nerf everyone else by 25%+ lol

[surreal hawk]

as if they calculated everything and were like : " yep 5% will fix this disfuncional spec"

[low girder]

Oh I have no doubt mm/uh will get nerfed lmao

[surreal hawk]

uh 100%

[real bay]

can't wait xd

[surreal hawk]

they are beating everyone without leggo

[real bay]

oh they crying

why blizz why

[vocal cloud]

design flaw isnt the problem for assas tho, right?

everything just

[surreal hawk]

nah its just a random old meme i had saved

[vocal cloud]

hits like a wet noodle

ye ye

tis a good meme

[surreal hawk]

was pretty accurate for some specs in BFA

[finite oxide]

I think sin could benefit from a rework but is fine in nathria so far, in terms of feel/gameplay. it has the base hallmarks that I like such as lower APM, more methodical gameplay and bleed juggling on cleave/multi-target. SnD's implementation does feel awkward, envenom could be a more interesting CP dump (I guess shiv helps with that?) and we generally don't interact with our poisons much, being the most poison-themed spec in the game

[strange python]

pretty sure sin won't get reworked

any time soon

I like the gameplay, the problem for me is with numbers.

[robust pine]

is emeni best pick for necrolords now? Or it doesn't matter on 9 renown?

[finite oxide]

emeni is the best pick for the buff she gives at the top, yeah. though none of the necrolords soulbinds are very good for us

[robust pine]

wouldn't marileth be better for m+ you can constatly reapply your 2 minute buff?

[main forge]

Wow... only like 263 parses for Sin rogue on the first boss of castle nath....

shit guys... can some of yall be a little less good this week... I want to be a top 100 parse for my class and spec

[uneven summit]

i got a rank one on hungering destroyer while dying at 20%

we were 2 people on the log

[vestal wren]

5% won't fix sin at all

more like 10-15%

sin has no design flaw just a tuning issue

[uneven summit]

agreed

[main forge]

IDK if I agree with that completely... but that would be the easiest solution

Slice and Dice is the most boring thing they brought back

[uneven summit]

what would the design flaw be..?

well thats for all rogues, and fully intentional upkeep, it´s not a design flaw

[main forge]

its literally a combo point eater that gives us more white damage

its a design flaw because finishers should feel like they do something... like Roll The Bones at least gives you a reach around every now and again

[vestal wren]

IDK if I agree with that completely..
you don't need to agree

but assassination is the best of the 3 in design for raid

[main forge]

for flow yeah. I rather do another envenom personally than hit another button just to keep a maintence buff up that doesn't seem to do anything

[vestal wren]

no for design

[uneven summit]

if you feel like this is a design flaw, i urge you to go unto classic servers and try out rogue :D:D:D

[vestal wren]

not gameplay vlow

*flow

it can deal better with mechanics and is not punishing mistakes

and has a good baseline damage if you manage to maintain your dots what should be doable if you use weakauras

[main forge]

Our survivability is on par for classic rogues thats for sure

[vestal wren]

the spec is just undertuned atm, but thats always the point people like to find other "issues" that make the spec bad

rogue in general has bad survivability

assassinaiton has probably some benefits because of being bleed based

so you can "dot and run"

[main forge]

Ehh, when leeching poison and recuperate first were introduced they were both stupid strong

I have mained assassination since wrath. probably would have played it in BC if it was viable.

Yeah, and that is what I mean it has a good flow.... like you said, it can deal with mechanics and is forgiving for making mistakes.

[arctic cove]

has anyone raided as sin?

[uneven summit]

yes

[arctic cove]

man i literally saw a sin get kicked from a raid yesterday

[main forge]

I have never raided as anything but sin

I can't say that I blame them entirely?

[arctic cove]

shit is rough man

[main forge]

Only 263 parses for normal first boss for sin.... every other spec shows 1,000 parses for me

[arctic cove]

im just not enjoying sub but i dont want to play sin and risk getting kicked lmao

[main forge]

I play with friends... so that ain't happening

[real bay]

why would you get kicked unless you pug

and fuk pugs

[uneven summit]

Just be good

[arctic cove]

im not with a pug but with a new guild thats going for myth

[uneven summit]

i played on par with a little lesser geared sub rogue for the first 3 on hc yesterday, huntsman shade dmg taken away from the calculation

[real bay]

then I wouldn't play sin before its buffed xd

[arctic cove]

😛

yeah im hoping for something next week

[real bay]

sin is good for prog its so slow you have plenty time to look what's happening

lmao

[main forge]

Top Sub Damage for first boss 3.9k Top Sin for normal is 2.8k

holy heck that is a divide

[vestal wren]

i think the main arguments for assassination were always its error resistant and fairly straight forward gameplay

[main forge]

It always had a decent sustain, and a nice burst window.

[real bay]

I do like the consistency

[main forge]

rarely do you have damage just fall off due to unlucky procs or whatever other classes get to deal with.

you stay on target... your damage stays the same

Anyone else been having issues with melee range though? I might have asked this before... but I feel like I get the "not in range" error more often than I ever had.

sometimes its on just bosses with odd hitboxes... like Mists of Tirna SIthe or whatever... the last boss I have on top of him I swear.

Sin is in such a bad spot, I think of suggesting that anyone that does less damage than me needs to get the boot. That should be the benchmark LOL

[real bay]

how to trial new members if you lose to sin you're gone

[main forge]

reminds me of a time when I made a bet... it was some fight where we had a ton of cheese but people were dying to mechanics and taking too much damage and the healers couldn't keep up... this was probably Cata... I had least damage taken for about 20 wipes and this was day 3 on this boss... I told everyone in the raid that I would pay them a significant amount of gold(10k? 50k?) if they could beat me on the least damage taken on a kill... We got the kill shortly after that, and I won the bet.

[robust pine]

and what did you get? Everyone collectively gave you 50k gold?

[strange python]

He got the kill :P

[main forge]

We got the kill and we got loot, and I didn't have to watch another wipe from people not doing the fight properly and taking damage from the avoidable sources, because the unavoidable damage was big enough to matter.

Feint, Cloak, Evasion - Vanish... If you know the tool kit well, we can take the least damage when compared to other classes I think.

It's the game I plan on planning now since I ain't going to be topping the meters anytime soon.

[mild lintel]

I kinda wanna go venth but I know its not the best :cri:

[main forge]

I thought about it too. I didn't like flagellation, the teleport was neat... The theme was cool. Necrolord had my favorite ability, bone spike... but the shield thing felt pathetic.... Kyrian I felt was very "meh"

Do what you like honestly. I don't think it will matter all that much

[mild lintel]

I like the look of venthir the most and necrolord ability felt the most fun to play w/ for me

[main forge]

And being vent gives you the buffs in the vent dungeon.... which look to be quite powerful in M+

[mild lintel]

but yeah i think ima just go with venth since I like the look the most

dont rlly like the other 3's looks at all

[spice spire]

Venthyr is fine. The difference in all covenants is sub 3%.
They’re all useable I personally went venthyr because I like the ability mechanics

[royal lantern]

the rule of thumb for almost everything is really

"if you need too ask, you dont play on the lvl where it matters"

[spice spire]

I mean some people are brand new and legit are asking due to conflicting info, but in general, yeah, if you have to ask about x branching choice, it probably doesn’t matter horribly

[robust pine]

does m+ drop conduits?

[real bay]

yes

we got a lot and they seem to be separate from other loot

2 conduits from some runs

[robust pine]

are they like higher ilvl?

[proven ferry]

I am surprised how no one wants to talk about sin rogue except this channel 😂 Like@nobody cares. Now I get how feral Druid players feel

[real bay]

higher than m0 yea

didn't get any myself

[glass meadow]

I think 190-200ilvl based on mythic. Idk though since I’ve only run m5> keys and haven’t gotten a conduit yet. Heroic raid gives 200ilv conduits

[hollow escarp]

akaari and zoldyck, now this is the meaningful choice

[scarlet meteor]

I think it's worth going venth because the damage boost we will get when we get the mogs will be more than other covenants

[safe totem]

any venthyr bois?

[spice spire]

Right here brother

It bleeds ✅
It provides haste ✅
It does no damage ✅

It’s built for assassin rogues

[lunar whale]

is sin any better now im over sub

[spice spire]

T U E S D A Y

[safe totem]

I was thinking more and more about going kyrian, the fact that it doesn't activate if it runs out is making me lose my shit

like why are you making me press that shit twice

and if I don't you take my precious buff

[lunar whale]

what cov is decent for sin NF im assuming

[spice spire]

They’re all fine for sin.
Preference but NF seems best. Could be wrong though

[lunar whale]

ima just stick kyrian

tbh

i like there leather gear

[stone locust]

!bis

[prisma monolith]

Whispyrs Bis list: http://tiny.cc/76r5tz

[dire lintel]

!stats

[prisma monolith]

**Shadowlands: ** Haste > Versatility => Critical Strike => Mastery

[twilit iron]

i went with NF because sepsis scales with the sin passives, but i'm ngl bone spike felt way better to play with while i was leveling

i might make the switch at some point, but i'm getting used to having the exta mobility with soulshape

[balmy condor]

It only is affected by shiv btw

[twilit iron]

is it? interesting

[balmy condor]

We don’t use the “scale” word either

[twilit iron]

right right

i'm half awake - lucky i'm forming sentences at all

[stoic needle]

I went from necrolord to venthyr. I like bone spikes better than flagellation, but hopefully after buffs and with some more gear it'll be easier to get the stacks up. They both can be used to fill in the dead spots of your rotation, bone spikes with cheap cp and flagellation with more haste. If you can line up the nadija passive and the flagellation haste boost with vendetta I bet you could get some nutty damage

[plain onyx]

Guys, from where does Runecarver Memory drop? does it drop from Normal/HC dungeons ?

[balmy condor]

Runecarver memory is the term for any legendary recipe

So I’m afraid the answer is, you get one from literally anything

Torg, raid, m+, etc

[thin stump]

n n

[lean marten]

yo where does gear drop

[balmy condor]

World quests

[obtuse ruin]

Wish assa became top tier for m+ again

[wary hare]

Are there legitimate chances of a sin buff?

I am new to rogue, but at least in pvp I don’t understand “in theory” how sin is better than sub in any way. In pve it just seems like damage numbers are low

[dawn merlin]

Yes

Likely getting an aura buff along with a slap to unholy dks

Matter of when, not if

[balmy condor]

Well “in theory” sin is way worse than sub in any way, and that theory panned out to be reality

[placid dawn]

we can freely switch between soulbinds? say if i use pelagos for outlul and another for sin

does it change when i change spec?

[balmy condor]

It doesn’t change with spec

But you can switch freely when you’re in your covenant sanctuary

[pearl canyon]

in any inn isnt it

rested area*

[balmy condor]

Oh really

[dim mirage]

you cna switch your equiped bind in any rest, conduits in cov area

including tomes

[placid dawn]

thats somewhat annoying :/

[balmy condor]

That’s sick

[dim mirage]

its basically the same as any talent

[placid dawn]

usually you dont need a tome when changing specs on raid

now i would have to use one whenever i change

[dim mirage]

blizzard gonna blizz 🤷

[balmy condor]

Honestly didn’t think you could change with a tome

So that’s sick to me

[dim mirage]

i did it last night after running podtender and SB for a bit

[fleet whale]

assassination rogue no longer at the bottom of logs

but it's also the least logged spec on heroic, even behind survival lol

[stoic needle]

One more week

[balmy condor]

It’ll happen boys

[fleet whale]

havoc Demon Hunter: 15% buff

Sin rogue.... 4% buff

[balmy condor]

Shut it varo

But also might make sub quieter

[real bay]

soon

[molten trellis]

I'm not even playing sin right now and I'm anxious with the situation

Pls buffs

[atomic gate]

We will be buffed bigly and we'll be buffed soon, believe it. It'll be an amazing buff.

[knotty bear]

And still be unplayable in M+

[balmy condor]

Most likely yeah xD

[spice spire]

Anything’s playable if your group is bad enough 🙂

[lofty leaf]

What would need to happen to make sin playable in arenas?

[balmy condor]

No clue about pvp

[lofty leaf]

would a damage buff be enough or is the mobility/utility of the spec just not there?

[old snow]

big dmg buff

and sub being nerfed a bit

tbh biggest sin counter is prob sub

[spice spire]

Likely damage, I can’t say with a ton of experience as pvp as a rogue is boring to me. But we can’t compete with the burst of sub, so why not just run sub?

[old snow]

cause you get bursted before you can put your dots up and do your thing

cause sub is boring af

and clunky

and ugh

assa is fluid and fun and cool and makes my koq bigger

[balmy condor]

Sub has more cc, and higher burst

[lofty leaf]

so basically the current huge burst meta would need to shift to one thats slower paced, and sin would also need the buffs so it actually does high sustained damage

[balmy condor]

So

[old snow]

thats pretty much on point ye

i know everyone was always complaining and crying that arenas are too slow etc, and thats why people lukie current fast burst meta, but imo its just a little bit too fast

i dont really like it the way it is, its not fun when its too slow but the way it is rn its too fast for my tastes, you dont have time to enjoy the game

[lofty leaf]

ok thanks, I really like sin, but it just feels so bad rn waiting for energy and looking at the bottom of the meter for my name... hoping for buffs

[strange python]

in sub , after your burst you are literally back stabbing folks for a good while lol

its boring.

[old snow]

yup

thats big part of why i dont like it and find it boring

and also i dont like animations, i think they are too clunky

[strange python]

Btw why the hell does sin have nightstalker. that only works well with sub.

[balmy condor]

Because nightstalker used to be sick

And then it wasn’t

[strange python]

blizz give us ss and get rid of that

[balmy condor]

We used to vanish envenom with nightstalker

[strange python]

ooo

[balmy condor]

and then they reworked sin mastery

And now you would vanish rupture

That whole row isn’t actually THAT bad

They’re fairly close compared to something like the alac/exsang row

[dim mirage]

why is alacrity not called "kingsbane" and apply a ramping dot?

[balmy condor]

Cause we’d be even worse in m+ that way

[dim mirage]

remove alac and snd, buff poison. add kb. envenom FoK for giga deeps

[balmy condor]

“Rework the spec”

Very easy to say, isn’t it

[finite oxide]

The chimera boss in M+ necrotic wake is especially blargh as sin. switching to spread out skele boys and needing to burst them down

felt like I had rez sickness

[strange python]

I just want more energy regen that we had in bfa with necklace

like* when*

[dim mirage]

git revert -bytag "Legion-7.0" -f

[balmy condor]

Definitely don’t want that

Poison bomb doing 40% of my damage was not fun

[dim mirage]

who wouldnt want legion numbers in sl

[balmy condor]

I don’t

Because poison bomb was our main damaging ability

And it’s a small ground effect

And tanks can’t see it

[strange python]

yeah

i remember that stuff

[balmy condor]

It was really really bad design

[strange python]

I didn't like hence why i went to play dk.

[dim mirage]

point being. id rather poison damage not be watered down due to autos

also remove snd

[balmy condor]

There’s a lot of things they could change

[dim mirage]

you would hope they would grab onto the envenom buff and 2x hit on mutilate and increased base energy pool and run with that conceptually and expand on it but 🤷

basically turn into sub but with dots

[fervent beacon]

👉

[long coyote]

HEy guysn eed quick help, can rogues craft both daggers with one zeniths anima sphere?

Or they can only craft one with it?

If its possible to get ASAP answer pls

[balmy condor]

Each sphere is 1

If you want 2 daggers, you need 2 tokens

[rain peak]

!bis

[prisma monolith]

Whispyrs Bis list: http://tiny.cc/76r5tz

[nimble tartan]

omfg boys these buffs are sick

dont mind me just practicing what ima say in here when the tuning drops

[stoic needle]

[balmy condor]

Wonder if I’ll have to turn off notifications for this channel if we see buffs

That’ll be the sadge

Having to mute my baby :(

[hazy iron]

Man

I really do hope we get some buffs

[stoic needle]

If that's what it takes for sin to get a proper refresh/rework then so be it

[hazy iron]

Outlaw is alright but.. mut helps my old joints with low apm plus i can raid whilst baked

[real bay]

there is not gonna be a rework

maybe next exp

[stoic needle]

Obviously not on Tuesday

But who knows what could happen each tier

[hazy iron]

I don't think we get a rework at all, assassination is by all means a well rounded spec. We just lack numbers.

[balmy condor]

Except in aoe

Where we have no coherent design philosophy

And the spec at it’s core does not function

Without borrowed power

[stoic needle]

By rework I don't mean huge changes, just some kind of moderate change to make aoe better and snd maybe

[balmy condor]

But yeah, it’s a well rounded spec :)

[dim mirage]

they DID rip out AP, add a new cooldown, in one patch. there is some amount of hope

[hazy iron]

Ok well, the foundations are well rounded, but i guess the context of my comment comes from azerite (borrowed power)

I still don't think it needs an overhaul though

[balmy condor]

Yeah, ss and Eb hard carried

Our talents for sure need an overhaul imo

[hazy iron]

I think the last row of talents could use some work

[restive crescent]

anyone done any testing on the Doomblade legendary power? I did some initial testing and have noticed that the bleed damage from Mutilate isn't factored into the 5% increased Envenom damage per bleed on target

[balmy condor]

Our last row has poison bomb, which is the only gain in single target, simply because it’s passive, hidden blades is a joke that stands contrary to the gameplay, venom rush is a bit of a joke concept wise, nightstalker doesn’t really make sense anymore after legion, MA is overshadowed by a legendary of the same effect

[dim mirage]

my opinion for some time is that the spec needed one extra "something special" whether it was baseline blindside or focusing more around pooling and finisher windows ie envenom

[stoic needle]

I feel like a spec being non-functional without borrowed power should be something that blizzard should try to avoid but it seems like they don't really care

[balmy condor]

All that testing has been done during beta yeah

[dim mirage]

but it doesnt matter what i think b/c blizz doesnt pay my paycheck

[hazy iron]

Hidden blades should be changed to echoing blades, and add SS to replace venom rush

[stoic needle]

We pay theirs though

[restive crescent]

is the Mutilate bleed suppose to factor into the Envenom damage increase?

[balmy condor]

You’d had to balance it to make ss+subt not crazy though

[dim mirage]

iirc yes

[balmy condor]

I think it does, yes

[hazy iron]

Maybe instead of 2 additional cp maybe change it to 1 additional?

[balmy condor]

Oh and it also would be on the same row as exsang, so rip exsang

[hazy iron]

In my honest opinion, the talent system its self in general needs a rework.

[balmy condor]

I think the system is fine

[hazy iron]

Maybe add exang to the last row and make CT baseline

[balmy condor]

Sins just need help

That would make exsang the go to for single target

Poison bomb rip

There’s a lot of moving parts

And no easy solution

[hazy iron]

You're not wrong lol

[balmy condor]

But many people have given many many MANY opinions and ideas on what to do

I’ve heard like 9 different ways people have thought about reworking pb

[hazy iron]

Ok hear me out - PB becomes an ability and replaces shiv. Basically acts like shiv, but drops the aoe puddle, increasing poison damage taken by all mobs surrounding your taget up to how ever many yards PB is

Idk, it becomes bandaid after bandaid. Perhaps things need to be added baseline

[balmy condor]

That’s seli’s idea he floated in like august

[hazy iron]

Dang

[balmy condor]

He suggested 2 charges on Use

[hazy iron]

Oh nice

[tidal gorge]

That woulda been nice.

[grim mason]

hey @balmy condor can you link me that link about Aura?

[balmy condor]

What link

[drifting imp]

if we get buffs, should i put zoldyck on legs or feet? or doesn't it matter much?

[balmy condor]

Legs

[dim mirage]

i am fine with this. fuck exsang

[drifting imp]

tsym

[balmy condor]

[grim mason]

something about when they nerf auras for a class?

[balmy condor]

Yeah what about it

We don’t have a buff yet

So can’t link any buffs

[grim mason]

or maybe it was mention

[balmy condor]

I explained it a couple times in here

I’m sure the search function can find it

[dim mirage]

whats the delta on zold, dashing, doom. we talking single, double, or triple digit

[grim mason]

yes you did and you also showed me the "aura" link from like wowhead

[balmy condor]

Oh

You want the actual aura

Sure give me a second

[grim mason]

aye

thx

[balmy condor]

Within 2% of each other single target, and like 4% in aoe

[balmy condor]

https://www.wowhead.com/spell=137037/assassination-rogue

Had to get out of bed

[grim mason]

oof it's 2 pm man

[balmy condor]

1:55

It’s not 2 YET

[fleet whale]

what if on tuesday, instead of an aura buff

we get a blue post that says "We will not be doing any tuning to the assassination rogue spec, due to significant changes we are working on for the spec in 9.1"

[real bay]

💩

[fleet whale]

idk, that might be better

[arctic cove]

5/10 bosses dead in normal and im so bored of subtley...

cba

not enjoying the game

[fleet whale]

i'm actually leveling my havoc dh lol

i have more faith in blizz tuning havoc right

than i do for sin

[steep badger]

I just hope they don't toss in a lazy 5-10% overall and be like whelp there ya go, someones gota be last soo gl pzzout

[real bay]

doubt

there will be 0 assa in mythic if so lmao

[arctic cove]

do u guys know if anyone has raided as sin?

[balmy condor]

like 50 people have

yes

[arctic cove]

looool

[fleet whale]

sin is gonna be as dead as bfa sub

in fact, at least bfa sub had players in uldir

[real bay]

might try sin just to feel special

there are not many of us left

[fleet whale]

"Sin is still good for progress"

has less parses than survival hunter

[fading wigeon]

Lol

[prisma monolith]

Mutilate requires a dagger in both hands, this makes using a non dagger weapons undesirable.

[fleet whale]

thanks for letting us all know moroes

[balmy condor]

someone probably missed the command in sub and then dirty deleted XD

[clear yew]

Looks lile sin rogue aura buff inc according to datamined hotfix changes

Like*

[balmy condor]

?

link

[clear yew]

Bottom

[balmy condor]

[clear yew]

Uncat spells

Oh lol

[verbal mantle]

[balmy condor]

linking to dm's

[clear yew]

Shadowlands Datamined Hotfixes (12/10) - Rogue Anima Powers, Necrotic Wake Necropolis - Wowhead News

https://www.wowhead.com/news=319821/shadowlands-datamined-hotfixes-12-10-rogue-anima-powers-necrotic-wake-necropolis

[balmy condor]

it literally says anima powers

in the title

[clear yew]

Bottom of that one

[balmy condor]

[clear yew]

Ye but look at bottom of uncatogorized spells

[balmy condor]

[clear yew]

Oh lol, didnt see it was red ink nvm 😂

[balmy condor]

the red ink change is also a nerf

[clear yew]

Yea was wishful thinking sry 😦

[balmy condor]

happens :P

actually a pretty nasty nerf to sin in torghast

unfortunate about that red ink nef

[tidal gorge]

Not fair to make us hope like that

[atomic gate]

This is troll

Got a few specs doing barely better than tanks in dps but we gotta fix Diablo rifts first

Could just do small 5% aura bandaid tweaks daily but nope

And all the people who want to play the game their way are either in Limbo or punished lel

[rustic juniper]

I'd take being viable in 1 aspect of the game Raids, mythic, or pvp

[strange python]

damn sin is in a bad spot huh? just joined the discord and was wondering how it is pve/pvp\

reading the chat history it seems not good lol

[stoic needle]

if the choice was between a solid aura buff next week, and no more changes for the rest of the xpac, or a few more weeks of being shit for some real changes I'd take the few weeks of suffering

[tidal gorge]

They should bake shrouded suffocation into Garrote imo

[atomic gate]

also is it me or is Vendetta the only burst cooldown in the game among all classes that targets only 1 thing?

This spec has all the flaws of relying on dots, being unable to spread them efficiently, and being poor at target swapping, while also having a DPS cooldown that only affects 1 target, and in the end doesn't shine at anything for all its torubles

[strange python]

i think Sin spec needs like 15% haste buff baked in, higher bleed/poison buff baked in, and vigor as baseline

exang baseline too maybe

give it a 45sec cooldown

[atomic gate]

I argued for that in the beta

Shiv and Exang both being baseline cooldowns

[balmy condor]

exsang is already 45 sec cd

[atomic gate]

The spec just needs a big rework like some of the other specs have gotten at this point

[strange python]

i mean i hit 1600 in one night as sub just equipping master assassin and facerolling my keys, its so brainless

i miss sin pvp

[fleet whale]

imagine nerfing red ink

like why

[strange python]

lololol

sin is actually OP for torghast compared to sub or outlaw

thats all its good for

[fleet whale]

the 5 cp rupture from ambush is nice though

[tidal gorge]

Honestly, the sub skills just don't make any sense is why it's hard. Why are they throwing so many anima powers at vanish? What am I supposed to do with that? Reduce shadow dance cd or something, that's actually useful

[bold trail]

I'm no expert/pro player (at all)... I'd like to see assassin be able to utilize vanish more frequently, and have Nightstalker be more useful/fun. Perhaps some way to speed up the CD of vanish based on a conduit, or based on specific combo point spending?

[balmy condor]

sins reliance on vanish for a cooldown has always been a bit of a pain point

[amber quail]

i hope also in CR that spread dots instead to apply a short one out of energy regen. also like EXAng that work on ALL dots placed out was a real dream ^^

[balmy condor]

whats cr?

[amber quail]

VENDETTA might hit harder cause is single target that end when it die

*CT

sry

my dream is a 100 talent where one is for: ST/AoE/Cleave or something like this

[atomic gate]

There should be payoff for tunneling a target since our biggest cooldown only works on 1 thing

And there should be payoff for stacking our bleeds/poisons that feels meaningful and is fun to do

And as mentioned above we have talent rows that are absolutely memed at this point

Like why do we have to spend a talent to get an AoE CP spender

Like if our DP stacked like it used to and we had an ability that popped the stacks or something that would be neat

Exanguinate is somewhat the same idea but for bleeds

[fallow otter]

Whisp been in raid yet?

[bold trail]

Hmmm... "If your target dies with two or more bleeds active, your vanish CD is decreased by X percent"?

I'm am thinking about ways to make the single-target flavor more robust... If we wanted AOE, we'd go sub until it's nerfed and then go Outlaw.

Or "While Vendetta is active, each combo point spent on Envenom reduces the CD of Vanish by X sec"

Here's the thing, though... I have a feeling that, as per usual, Assassin is going to be pretty lame for the first month or so, and Sub is going to be insane. Then Sub will get nerfed into mush, and assassin will wind up in a better place.

[balmy condor]

Oh yeah dude, normal pumping out here

[bold trail]

we got four bosses on normal last night... was in raid with Sub and Outlaw, both of whom were kicking my sorry ass on dps.

[fallow otter]

We carrying a bunch of guildies that not in main raid, running 30 man

It's so over tuned for normal haha

[balmy condor]

oh yeah

inerva is giving us trouble

[strange python]

i want sin to be good so bad 😦

master poisoner should be 50% to poisons and not 20

[fallow otter]

We ran out of raid time to clear normal in one night so we still got sire left, heroic we got 3 down, do far

Barely anyone with legends though still

People like me waiting for sire legend or tuning

[strange python]

damn i have like 8 leggos already lol

[fallow otter]

I meant crafted 😁

[fallow otter]

Tried sub before? It's really not much different honestly

[analog shard]

Can anyone sim their character. I feel like my normal damage breakdown is a little off

[fallow otter]

How's that

[craggy wave]

I really thought zoldyck came from skoldus and just spent an hour doing level 4 ;-;

[fallow otter]

@Whispyr which one is inerva?

Anima canisters?

[balmy condor]

jar boss

yeah

[fallow otter]

Ah ye

Pretty much tank and spank for melee

Unless you get a mechanic

No press butans for me

That's a hunter jawb

[craggy wave]

Does anyone know what explosive inflammation is in torghast? Like what causes it?

When it procs for me on adds I’m doing like 17k

[balmy condor]

Sepsis effect afaik

The 15% one

[pearl canyon]

what does it mean?

[balmy condor]

It means red ink does what it’s supposed to

Red ink used to buff “poisons and bleeds” by 30%

Which basically was all of sins damage

Cause it was affected

So that’s the list of stuff that it was affecting on sin

Now being removed

To make red ink work as intended

Rather than be sins strongest torg ability

[pearl canyon]

ah

phew

thanks for clarifying this

[calm dome]

so its basically a nerf ? Red ink insn t good as before ?

[balmy condor]

yes

red ink was doing 30% all damage for sin

and was ridiculously strong

now its doing what its supposed to

[fleet whale]

it's still a hefty torghast nerf for sin...

[calm dome]

Thanks for the clear explaination

[steep badger]

Logic - We're getting buffed so hard come tuning that they're nerfing us already

amirite

[balmy condor]

no

[calm dome]

Like Synapse I am dreaming about Blizzars preparing a nice bunch of buffs coming in next week :)
But Whispyr will probably say to hold on cause we might be upset with these ( too high ? ) expectations

[steep badger]

not when you have .25 % of what's necessary for expectations and keep a cynical mindset

I wouldn't say keep 0 expectations because the specs basically screaming and arguably the worst state of a pure dps non hybrid(ranged vs melee not heals vs tank vs dps hybrid) at an expac launch. They're clearly going to do something we just fear its not going to be enough and that's a very real possibility

[fallow otter]

Well i think managing expectations is a good idea because of blizzards track record, I think it's likely we will get a buff to sin and i hope their is one. It's quite possible that sin stays unplayable for a while

[steep badger]

There will be one

undoubtably at this point

imo

we just don't know what. I expect it will enough to keep it almost competative but bliz does the darndest things sometimes

[eager plaza]

is it worth playin sin now?

[fallow otter]

Not sure how you can be so confident

[balmy condor]

we didn't get any changes

literally 0

still just as unplayable as it was yesterday

and the day before

and the week before

and the month before

[steep badger]

tuning next week

or the week after

one of those tho

[balmy condor]

before mythic typically

[steep badger]

yee

and stunkei, i'm so confident because we're literally last and its not even close. Of all dps specs the first two raid nights

hard data, so bad it can't be ignored

Know these been floating around, ones from Izenhart’s latest vid on YouTube.

ones norm ones heroic, but yeah bliz won't be able to ignore that

[steep badger]

Think whisp and I agreed on this weeks back but general consensus is we need at least a 15% buff, we expect 13 but wouldn't be surprised with 10. And that's if its just an overall dmg buff. Who knows what they'll actually do but if they do nothing come m week im unsubbing in protest for a month then coming back to play sub and bitch and moan here sumore w the rest of my miserable brethren damned by bliz to chew glass playing the class they love but the specs they don't if they don't want to throw marshmallows and do tickle dps

end rant

[fallow otter]

Sub no changes

For ep

[steep badger]

this is worse and that wasn't an expansion opening raid

also sub only got beaten into the ground because they didn't know how to fix zul, sin did nothing wrong to deserve this outside of be fun to play and exist

[fallow otter]

Bod

Bottom of 2 tiers

Im not arguing against you btw

And the difference now is bigger than sub then, that's clear

[steep badger]

gotcha

[gritty spoke]

arms went bottom to top lol

[steep badger]

lmao

[fallow otter]

But track record of bliz

They may just be like fuck it, they have 2 good specs

But hopefully they don't, as we have said many times

[steep badger]

Later raids are dif, but I won't mutter the S word. Start of an expac should be the most even playing groud come m week. They usually make an effort

aye

[fallow otter]

Imo the balance team have lots of work to do with the raid itself

So.. They might not have the man power

Lok

[steep badger]

Almost typed the s word then saw the avatar of whisp above my monitor holding a lightning bolt primed for my head

[fallow otter]

Lol

[pearl canyon]

i know its a tooltip issue but still

[balmy condor]

gonna just

delete that to prevent confusion and headache

mutilate is fine

[pearl canyon]

XD yeah sure

[steep badger]

https://youtu.be/ydKB6JeVt6w?t=340 Nice foreverguy made #46 for counsel

only rogue in the top 100 on that fight, kinda neat

[balmy condor]

he was also rank 1 allstars for a hot minute

yes

[finite oxide]

I'm stubbornly sticking with sin tomorrow in heroic and was playing it in 6-7 keys today. it's...playable. I can still time shit and I'm not terrifically behind the other DPS in a way that ruins the key

but I definitely feel like my stubborness to play sin is going to bite me on heroic on all fights that aren't huntsman lol

[atomic gate]

Its so baffling why from a business standpoint and feasibility Blizz can't more often tweak the aura profiles of the specs like in the above examples

And damage profiles and potential in PVP have been separate from PVE since Legion right? so its not like a raid DPS buff directly translates to a PVP damage buff

And from a single week of heroic/mythic raids they get more than enough data to make decisions on...

But more often than not they literally go "Eh that class has a good spec, we'll just put the other specs on the backburner for now" like what the fuck all it takes is small aura tweaks here or there

[finite oxide]

they're probably taking a week to try different aura buffs and run through nathria with test teams to watch it

this really sucks as someone who loves sin and hates sub but I also wouldn't want them to just kneejerk out something that they're not 100% sure is the correct fix in case they have to revert like a week later

[atomic gate]

Sin's energy regen feels shit and it has some philosophical design issues to be sure but they can change those things in content patches

What I'm mostly mad about is why haven't they just given sin like a 5% kiss on the cheek

"here yall go, now you're still dead last but at least a bit more playable"

And then like 4 days later when they get even more data go "ok here is another 3% baby"

[finite oxide]

probably because they don't want to flip the switch willy nilly and confuse the normies? 🤷

I'd be kind of weirded out if I didn't watch patch notes very closely and my damage is rollercoasting

but I agree even a 5% kiss on the cheek would go a long way while they decide on whether to give us the full 15% handjob

[fallow otter]

Fix the last talent row

Such trash

[finite oxide]

is it just me or is the last talent row REALLY weird when applied to M+? like you get a choice between something that makes you better on bosses and something that makes you better on trash, but the one that's good for trash may as well be an empty row on bosses

or are you supposed to crimson tempest bosses??

[pearl canyon]

many classes have the same feeling as well

affliction eg

sow the seeds pumps on trash yet its just a dead talent on bosses

[finite oxide]

yeah...I know CT is a better choice but feelycrafting poison bomb feels better because it's always doing something

[fallow otter]

But it's our last row, try compare it to dark soul misery for example lol

[atomic gate]

I god damn hate those RNG talents you see happen once in a while

And it's silly we hvae to spend a talent row to get an AoE CP spender

[finite oxide]

esp since sub got one baseline

[atomic gate]

Taletns should augment and improve what we're trying to do, not be the gate to even do said thing

[dark token]

!bis

[prisma monolith]

Whispyrs Bis list: http://tiny.cc/76r5tz

[fallow otter]

This is where sin needs attention imo, the spec is truly quite brain dead, there is no higher dps but harder option. Aura buff obv needed but fix the last row ffs

[pearl canyon]

@fallow otter easy: whenever u face a mage/priest/shaman in arena u basically either take creeping death and become even more global starved

or u play without a talent

as its purgeable

done

[fallow otter]

Not pvping atm unless it's in spare time for cap, especially not as sin when I can global them as sub

[surreal sinew]

!bis

[prisma monolith]

Whispyrs Bis list: http://tiny.cc/76r5tz

[fleet whale]

@balmy condor are you sure red ink got nerfed for sin, cause the blue post blizz posted about it doesn't imply that at all

[balmy condor]

hm

that's what the datamining says

[fleet whale]

yeah but the blue says

"Resolved an issue that prevented Red Ink from increasing the damage of all bleed and poison effects."

with that blue, the opposite should be true

[balmy condor]

wowhead scuffed

[fleet whale]

could also be wowhead scuffing again

[robust pine]

How is your torghast experience on sin? Yesterday i completed both 6th layers. First one was actually pretty easy and fast (except couple times dogs ate me alive, because i suddenly had to go afk) , and at the end i got Crimson Vial without CD and possible evasion aftet CV, so i just cheesed boss and killed him on 13 stacks.
Then was dark angels wing and it was hell. On my first attempt i couldn't even defeat second floor door guardian. After every fight i was waiting for CDs to reset. On my second attempt i reached final boss, it was tree with 700k hp. I won only because i got extremely lucky with procs of evasion from CV with 10 sec CD and ST with normal CD. Won on second attempt at 16 stacks.

[lament dove]

tbh I don't get this game now with Torghast, I mean sub has more burst, baseline aoe finisher, 2 shadowsteps (which is HUGE tbh), stealth abilities during dance (another interrupt), a lot better sealfheal for solo/Torghast, now it even has poisons, it's basically better at everything... and not talking about Torghast only, assa just feels so... utility-less compared to sub, like you only gimping yourself playing it

[low girder]

leeching poison is underrated

[robust pine]

I am just too used to sin, I played it since end of WoD without changing.

[lament dove]

leeching is like nothing compared to soothing darkness

lol, that name is so fitting, hello darkness, my old friend...

[balmy condor]

leeching is worse than soothing but its not bad

[low girder]

^

[lament dove]

don't know, I can't even stand questing now with leeching, it's like I'm starving for crimson vial all the time like some vampire

[drowsy snow]

!guide

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
RH: https://www.ravenholdt.net/guides/assassination-rogue-guide-shadowlands-raid-dps/
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide

[real bay]

[drifting imp]

I got so baited by wowhead when I read rogue tuning and then I noticed it was just for torgast

[balmy condor]

XD

Love to see it

[drifting imp]

How can they play with my feelings like that

[real bay]

next week for sure

[drifting imp]

I hope 🙏

[trail mica]

Its nice being the worst spec in the game. You can brag to your friends when you best them on the meters...

[balmy condor]

Or you have friends who can play their spec and they just laugh at you

[trail mica]

All of my friends are healers

No way i lose

[balmy condor]

I mean.......

You’re playing sin though

[drifting imp]

that moment when you get dangerously close to a pally tank in dungeons

[balmy condor]

I almost got clapped by a vdh

And then he stopped pulling like 15 at a time

[drifting imp]

man i miss shrouded suf and echoing blades

[fallen raven]

a version of echoing blades replacing hidden at 50 would be nice imo

[uneven summit]

very much so! and you brag with your rank 1 on hc bosses, ofc out of 5 logs but yea

[long coyote]

thank you for the answer btw 😄

[balmy condor]

Gotchu homie

[outer lodge]

<Next Week for Sure>

[main forge]

Narrator: Alas, but it was 2020, and next week never came, a giant meteor hit the Blizzard offices and server room, and that is what finally killed World of Warcraft.

[rain peak]

!stats

[prisma monolith]

**Shadowlands: ** Haste > Versatility => Critical Strike => Mastery

[acoustic shard]

Hey ! I checked the rare top rated sin rogue in pvp on the ladder atm and some are actually stacking Mastery over Haste

Is there a good reasoning behind that ?

[warm olive]

He probably was trolling around as assa and came from sub with his vers mastery gear

There is a 1 shot build with 20k envenoms, many ppl are trying this out right now

[spice spire]

^

[acoustic shard]

Doesn't seem like it

It's this guy : https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/character/us/emerald-dream/adelgab

And he doesn't have any talents setup for sub

[spice spire]

That seems like the one shot build to me, MA + nightstalker + MFD

[warm olive]

Looks like it though, Crit leg and nighstalker

[acoustic shard]

Oh okay ! So Mastery over Haste is better for the oneshot build ?

[warm olive]

No, but for sub it is

[spice spire]

Yes, haste is primary for energy regen, if you’re going to one shot someone, that doesn’t really matter as much.

I’d think crit would be higher but

[warm olive]

but i see your point that he has no sub talents, maybe he is really playing assa, which is nowhere that bad in pvp as it is in pve right now. but honestly no idea what he is doing. could be so many things: e.g. vers mastery in theory is best for that 1 shot thing since it is the most damage during that time frame, haste/crit is worthless for trying to achieve it.

[acoustic shard]

Alright thanks !

[strange python]

That's the guy that crit pika for 20k with one envenom

[proven ferry]

Since I am new to wow I am asking a noob question - what is ST and DS(WIP) in sin rogue ?

[dry atlas]

Abbreviations for single target and dungeon slice (work in progress)

[proven ferry]

Ah, thank you !!

[old snow]

i dont think mastery helps with one shots, cause it only increases poison and bleed dmg, or does that also apply to envenom?

[real bay]

env is nature / poison

[warm olive]

i was just saying that for getting out the most damage in a short period of time, mastery would be the best out of the three non vers stats, since you basically just garrote, rupture, kidney, shiv, vanish and envenom, thats maybe 2 dot ticks

for that 'one shot' we were talking about here

but its so marginal, that it probably doesnt matter

[lapis dragon]

@strange python its just buffed envenom.. elaborate + nightstalker + shiv + kyrian charged cp + MA lego + vendetta and u do vanish+envenom and voalaa single hit envenom like a truck ☺️

[woeful wigeon]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/e/2PACX-1vTYgz1ZCEqoM-KDFQwvyWDSyDNTf8J5s1GD1lnhIwEdfmTZ31K0dnoRkHtgsq6ysEyt9qAke_e9uu01/pubhtml

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1GMXg8KjFMLnqcu9irkBXeLDhELg2wNtG9bteEV5BsZ0/edit#gid=0

1 linnk is of all the legendairis /speck /covenant ect ectt

dont even know why raven hold havent uploaded this in days its been on the internet

they slacking

SUB FREAKS xd

[strange python]

i think blizz hates sin, looking at the sinful gladiator set, there's like nothing with haste as main stat, its all vers and crit

[spice spire]

Again, I’m not sure how strong haste is for PvP. Since the general strength of rogue seems to be its one shot potential - longer fights favors haste for regen, but other than that, seems strictly worse.

I could also be wrong haven’t seriously pvp’d with rogue since like Cata?

[old snow]

well that does apply to sub, but sin prefers longer fights and need a lot of energy regen, therefore needs haste even for pvp

the envenom oneshot is just a niche thing rn, its usually not like that

you still have big burst windows of dmg with vendetta smoke bomb mfd, but its not really oneshot

[strange python]

so what even is sin without haste haha

just a b grade sub right?

[old snow]

rn, a joke

[spice spire]

Wouldn’t that just make sin bad right now? Longer fights does not seem to be a good meta call rn from what I’ve seen

[old snow]

bad would be euphemism, but yes

[strange python]

ya i was interested in making it work but yr about the dots being a slower fight

fuck

need that burst

even as vent i can delete squishies in like 3 seconds as sub, just can't let that go

[bitter crow]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination WA's:
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)

[crimson palm]

@balmy condor hello new rogur here waht is best covenant

[stoic needle]

looks at 184 well placed steel conduit

Looks at full set of vers/mast pvp gear and MA ring

One shot envenom build you say? 🤔

[gleaming eagle]

so is zoldyck a good legendary?

but yeah sin is so weak rte now

subtle is just best single target and outlaw aoe

[strange python]

i am v curious to what blizz has in mind with sin, the stats seem kind of all over the place, but they might have been doing some math that we are just too 5head to realize

maybe 30/30/30 build

looking at these sets its like crit/mastery/haste

its hard to believe they made the sets and didn't test it at all, but looking at suvival hunter, they botched that a million times in a row so I wouldn't make any bets

[balmy condor]

What needs to be updated?

[spiral bough]

Is Master Poisoner ever worth it in the execute phase with the legendary?

[balmy condor]

No

Blindside also has an execute portion built in

[spiral bough]

True, just wasn't sure if the multiplier with the Zoldyck + Poisoner was worth. Thanks for answering!

[robust pine]

it recommends toxic blade, but toxic blade doesn't exist

[spiral bough]

Neither does level 75, 90 or 100 llol

[balmy condor]

@warm parcel

[strange python]

hmm, i don't think a dot build is happening anytime soon, i guess i'm moving on to thinking about some kind of blindside crit build

gonna start passively collecting gear

while playing my sub

[spice spire]

Unless there’s a significant buff to bleeds, that’s correct

[full tide]

!guide

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
RH: https://www.ravenholdt.net/guides/assassination-rogue-guide-shadowlands-raid-dps/
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide

[strange python]

maybe something like MA + crit + mastery

that's what the sets are looking like rn anways

pika was hitting for like 14k

and he's like full mastery

two of those in a row with MFD

that would sting

hmm i already have this build

gonna try it, they added a lot of random crit to the pvp set

oh damn

so far like 18k dmg in opener

[stoic needle]

are you making a PVP or PVE build?

[strange python]

just testing the water, i'm mainly a pvp player, just bored and curious

[stoic needle]

I like PVP too, I love testing out different builds

[strange python]

yee

[stoic needle]

you using the PVP honor gear?

[strange python]

yep

22k dmg opener

[stoic needle]

👀

[gleaming eagle]

what combo

[strange python]

then you're energy starved for a sec

[gleaming eagle]

?

[strange python]

3, 2, 3, 3, 3, 1, 1

master assassin

full upgraded pvp gear

[gleaming eagle]

ah

[stoic needle]

how long are we talking here "a sec"

5 sec? 10 sec?

[strange python]

Opening with marked for death

into full kdiney

then 2 ambush

rupture

[warm parcel]

@balmy condor yes dear

[strange python]

garrote

lets see

i wonder if the play is do that, then hide for a sec

[stoic needle]

full kite and hide mode

[warm parcel]

Toxic blade

[strange python]

with vanish

[warm parcel]

lmao

[stoic needle]

after vanish

[strange python]

oh shit

[balmy condor]

Guide has toxic blade and old levels on the talent suggestions

Ye

[warm parcel]

[strange python]

forgot about toxic blade talent

[warm parcel]

Old habits die hard

[strange python]

hmm

ya you can unload on them, then vanish, wait for your energy to rise

then repeat

gonna try in arena

[stoic needle]

toxic blade talent?

[strange python]

nvm i think im tippen on that

didn't they add it back somewhere

for + nature dmg?

[balmy condor]

That’s shiv now

[spice spire]

Shiv?

Ye

[stoic needle]

there's the well placed steel conduit

[strange python]

is that the one that gives you the +nature back on shiv?

[warm parcel]

Anything other thats silly or just plain wrong?

I did proof read it once

[stoic needle]

it's +extra nature damage during shiv yea

[strange python]

oh ya i see now

[stoic needle]

184 is 13%?

[strange python]

oof only 13% haha

[stoic needle]

is creeping venom any good? so they keep taking damage while you're hiding

[balmy condor]

I took a glance and didn’t see anything weird, but I’ll take a closer look later and let you know

[strange python]

maybe rushed setup to save on energy

[stoic needle]

yeah rushed setup seems pretty mandatory for pvp

[balmy condor]

Might have to double check the sims on ambush opener logic, other than that I’m not worried

[stoic needle]

i got a 200 something rushed setup from M+ yesterday

it's like 26% cheaper energy costs

[strange python]

ya i really like that we are so starved for energy

[stoic needle]

why?

[strange python]

i feel like every bit helps haha

[warm parcel]

I did go by the logic of that time

Dno if apl changed since

[strange python]

feels so demoralizing having like no energy

sitting spamming waiting to get your shots off haha

[stoic needle]

ohhh i see, i thought you were saying that you like that we are starved for energy lol

[strange python]

haha woops

okay im going in

i did something similiar in presason and was getting 300k dmg in arena

[stoic needle]

keep us updated

[strange python]

then it just broke, but now i have full pvp gear so trying it again

[stoic needle]

how much vers + mast do you have?

[balmy condor]

We don’t use ambush in subterfuge openers anymore, but I’m not sure about MA, so I have to go back and double check, should be gar mut snd for subt

[stoic needle]

damn you're gonna make me go back and upgrade the rest of my pvp gear lol

[strange python]

ya subetfuge + MA seems strong

cuz you get the crit from ma instead

[gleaming eagle]

whats your opener with subt on pvp ? @balmy condor

subterfuge*

[balmy condor]

I don’t pvp

[gleaming eagle]

oh

[balmy condor]

That’s why I’m not part taking in this discussion and why you’ll never see me in #pvp

Can’t stand it

[gleaming eagle]

fair enough

we get make fun of for running sin in pvp anyway

[strange python]

sometimes its nice to get cozy with the sins

but i usually talk pvp in pvp

just bored and trying stuff

[shadow tulip]

Looked at wlogs

I'm sad

[old snow]

thats the name of the channel

[shadow tulip]

Sub beating us with 1k dps

[strange python]

hmm 34k dmg full roto in bgs

[balmy condor]

Assassination? More like aSADination am i right boys

[shadow tulip]

https://tenor.com/view/sad-blackish-anthony-anderson-tears-upset-gif-4988274

[stoic needle]

[shadow tulip]

Where's my tuning!

Gimme buffs, dang it

[spice spire]

Can we get a Tuesday emoji in chat?

[strange python]

so far so good tho, that's me top 3 at 139 4 mins into game

seems less energy starved when you start getting your bleeds down

[balmy condor]