haha
#assassination
strange python
ohhh
drifting cloud
and it seems youre talking about pvp 80% of the time
strange python
the grownups are talking
sin is just as broken for pve
as i said earlier
you came a little late to the shitfight haha
drifting cloud
doubt youd know
strange python
whatever you say
plain thistle
jesus again this? sin is not broken
plain thistle
strange python
do you even play this gaem?
drifting cloud
doesnt seem like you do
strange python
found the pally main
drifting cloud
dont be so butthurt just because assa is gonna suck in pvp for an xpac, it had its time
royal lantern
sin was not played in raids
late raven
Guys, I know it will be a super simple weak aura to make, but has anyone got a weakaura tracking master assasin remaining time?
strange python
haha go climb torgast as sin
royal lantern
i did torghast as all specs
plain thistle
I do
drifting cloud
spoilers alert torgast is annoying for all rogue specs
they have to balance anime powers
royal lantern
turns out
strange python
when m+ starts
royal lantern
when rogue has
plain thistle
yup, as sin you at least can use leech poison and "dot and run" 
royal lantern
"tricks gives you 15% dodge"
and hunter has
"misdirect gives you 90%dmg reduction"
stuff is not balanced
who would have thought that
strange python
haha
dot and run from torgast bosses
lets just see what happens with m+
if you're climbing as sin
plain thistle
but we are talking about torghast š¤
strange python
grats
that's impressive deff not a good cleave class tho
and without ss, gonna be hard to put all those dots on
royal lantern
you mean like how people climbed as sin during the last expanions?
drifting cloud
my dude for your 5 keys you can play assa
strange python
you are one of the like 5 sins left
royal lantern
mate, sin is weak right now, yes, everyone knows that
strange python
so i don't see why are are going so 5head
royal lantern
balance patch is comming
plain thistle
we all agree that sin is weak here bro, just calm down, we all want a buff
plain thistle
yeah, because its not broken
strange python
ahh that's why you and those other 4 guys are the only ones left
plain thistle
if you want a better AoE conduit OK, we can agree on that
drifting cloud
@cobalt pelican 
strange python
i don't see why you have to get so defensive
you think we dont need ss
cuz you want slow rampup
and are getting livid rofl
drifting cloud
stop talking about ss already
plain thistle
but SS doesnt change our ramp up problem
drifting cloud
living in the past
strange python
anways say what you need to say i'moutt here
shhh ryler
at least the other guys have arguments
you're just being a dbag piling on
strange python
debating rofl
cobalt pelican
shiv now deals 70000% increased damage
plain thistle
royal lantern
@drifting cloud sub smoothbrains spread
you dont wanna know how often people in that cursed channel call me out for beeing a red name
arctic cove
im sorry to interupt this fight but is anyone here playing sin atm?
drifting cloud
I dont read sub channel
strange python
haha its over
drifting cloud
theres nothing of value there
royal lantern
eh, whisrp for sure does @arctic cove
dry atlas
Yeah like 3 people that came back after a few years
strange python
its whatever tho sin is still the best class
cant wait till we are back in business
dry atlas
Whispyr caved in and is playing sub
arctic cove
im trying out sub even tho i want to play sin š¦
im just not sure what to do with my legendary
cobalt pelican
sub and sin are close enough in gameplay that idk why anyone would feel strongly about either
just play the one with the biggest numbers or if you're an rper the one that tickles your fancy who cares
royal lantern
you just replace "symbols and dance" with "shiv"
strange python
and reworked, its just sin+ now
dry atlas
I found sin to be more fun in m+ than outlaw in 8.3
royal lantern
both are burst windows, both are used on CD
lament dove
anyway, why can I change souldinds at an inn if I can't change conduit... if I want to go another spec, I have to go back to base anyway...:\
strange python
ya ngl sub is really fun rn
arctic cove
@strange python do u play sin atm?
royal lantern
when you unlock more soulbinds, you just make 1 bind for your offspec
and then change that in a rested area
strange python
i'm vent sub/outlaw
dry atlas
Said how long have you been playing for
lament dove
yeah sure, because one soulbind is good for one spec and the other is good for the other right...? this is stupid design
strange python
cuz i didn't like how sin handled
royal lantern
i mean, beeing weaker on offspec is pretty normal....?
its called OFFspec for a reason
arctic cove
@strange python and others, for someone like me who still wants to give sin a try, while im also playing sub
strange python
sin/sub would be a bad call
arctic cove
should i wait with legendary or just craft MA since it works for both specs?
strange python
pair either with outlaw
that's my take
dunno these guys seem to know a lot more about the pve aspects
strange python
ya that seems to be the best rn
plain thistle
should i wait with legendary or just craft MA since it works for both specs?
waiting probably is a good idea, we dont know how they will tune
lament dove
yeah but don't get ehy everyone said it would be easier to doublespec now while it's actually worse this way
strange python
i'm using the same stats
so its easy
but i'm also vent
so i get that extra haste
plain thistle
its definitly easier, since you can have separate soulbinds for each spec, and we actually have 2 good soulbind
arctic cove
@plain thistle aight aight... ill wait until after raid then š
guess ill try to master the art of sub š
dry atlas
If you have some money to burn and tbh it's not that much you can go ahead and make MA
strange python
seems like everyone is going sub/outlaw tho
outlaw is realllly fun in some content haha
dry atlas
Because it's still better than no legendary and you can make another one soon anyway
arctic cove
@dry atlas how much does it cost?
dry atlas
Depends on your server
arctic cove
ahhhh
strange python
i heard it will be easy to just make a new leg
dry atlas
I'd say like 10k for the base and missives or less
lament dove
yeah but 1200 ash is like two weeks?
raven egret
what
strange python
historically has blizz been pretty quick on patches? i always left the few last xpacs early
raven egret
layer 6 is open on raid
dry atlas
Is it not open yet
dry atlas
Waiting is content I guess
raven egret
and 8 is open on mythic
dry atlas
2 weeks of nothing to do but m0 and honor farming is pretty dire
strange python
hmm
arctic cove
fck it im just gonna craft the MA
strange python
ya i'm gonna craft too
2 weeks isn't bad
cuz you're not doing it the whole time
plain thistle
you can crafts, it depend on what content you do
arctic cove
i do all content
plain thistle
since I mostly do mythic raid I'll wait š
raven egret
MA feels super nice especially open world and dungeons
plain thistle
specially since I still dont know which spec to play
arctic cove
same here jhon
arctic cove
but im doing m+ dung so MA should work
plain thistle
yeah, and MA works for every spec
plain thistle
its not the best but decent for all 3
arctic cove
gotta go finish my torghast last run for dem souls
plain thistle
arguably very good for mythic+
arctic cove
now im excited for my MA, brb BOYS
strange python
ezclap
fair rain
jade jewel
any reason we could see shrouded suffocation coming back as baseline or would that be too much of an imbalance for assa? I've seen some ask for kingsbane which I wouldn't be opposed to either but what do we think our spec really needs in terms of buffs; is it just more damage numbers for our current abilities or something along the lines or giving more to what we have and leaving numbers as is?
pseudo hamlet
Kingsbane was cool, but not now. The amount of buttons right now is enough(for me lol)
Assa just need straight +X% buff, no need to add other abilities to make it even more complicated... though it'd just make you use all abilities on CD and try to maintain debuffs/buffs
stoic needle
Sin needs some kind of version of premed baseline imo
Kinda ridiculous that the spec with the most maintenance doesn't have that talent
S&D could boost our energy regeneration more too
jade jewel
Sin needs some kind of version of premed baseline imo
I had a dream they baked SnD to become perma passive. I was mucho drooly.
balmy condor
Who ping
stoic needle
Maybe something like.. if you have 3 garottes up, OR rupture, garrotte and deadly poison on a single target then the next mutilate triggers a 2cp SnD
balmy condor
stoic needle
Rewarding you for getting all of your dots up
And making aoe easier
I like if; then passives or mechanics
Or that one torghast power, where your shadowstrike applies a 1cp rupture
But with mutilate instead
dire spoke
(:
little sandal
!talents
daring imp
is hero damage legendary table for assassination alright? o_o
dire spoke
daring imp
well, it did, but also ...
balmy condor
Aight time to scroll up and answer all the homies questions that got ignored cause pepega happened
balmy condor
is hero damage legendary table for assassination alright? o_o
Yes, itās fine, you can also sim then yourself in top gear if you wish
balmy condor
eh, whisrp for sure does <@!228931418363920384>
Oh also Iām playing sub in keys, canāt do it man 
stoic needle
Do the balance patches usually come in the same patch as the new raid content/m+? Or is it a separate hotfix
balmy condor
Guys, I know it will be a super simple weak aura to make, but has anyone got a w...
You can make super quick and dirty weakauras like that through their template feature. Itāll guide you through the process. If that doesnāt work for you, Iāll give you a really quick rundown:
- New aura (weāll make an icon)
- Go to trigger, then name, type master assassin, should populate with all the master assassin buffs
- Go to display, change the text to how you want it, itās probably a little small
- Go to load, change it to how you want to load (common ones are in combat, in instance, on rogue only)
arctic pond
Do you still take Subterfuge with MA?
late raven
You can make super quick and dirty weakauras like that through their template fe...
Thank you kindly sir!
balmy condor
You can craft MA now if you want to multi spec, but Iām personally just gonna wait, craft a rank 2 for one spec, and a rank 2 for the other later. It really depends how youāre feeling and when you need it
Both good, I would just pick the higher item level. Wps is a little ahead in single target, not much. also think lethal poison would be better in dungeons, sims say wps is basically just as good, but youād need to use shiv effectively in aoe packs, which could prove to be a little weird, while poisons is just passive
balmy condor
Do you still take Subterfuge with MA?
Yep
balmy condor
Thank you kindly sir!
My pleasure :)
frigid kestrel
Holy Shit @balmy condor is on high level catch up.
balmy condor
happens, fight breaks out, real questions get ignored, and people are usually too afraid to re-ask the same question, so it just feels like the right thing to do, is scroll up and answer
balmy condor
Do the balance patches usually come in the same patch as the new raid content/m+...
Oh, missed this lmao. So at the start of expansions especially, tuning after heroic week of raiding and week 1 of m+ is the big tuning hotfix. Usually in patches they bring out new systems as well, like corruption, essences, etc, so they canāt just tune and introduce something, they have to fix that later. Those usually kinda trickle in over the following weeks with server restarts, but if something is omega broken, they have been known to hotfix changes in
balmy condor
Np
Should also mention nightstalker could be good
But only really in single target, and even then, not really
balmy condor
Yeah idk
I feel like I need to look at nightstalker apl
I know thereās nothing really there because the talent and the legendary are basically the same thing
So itās already about as good as it gets
But legendary + other talents make me uneasy
So Iāll look at it maybe today, just to calm my nerves lmao 
stoic needle
Judging by the sims I've seen of the different classes warrior is probably due for a hotfix before sin
But sin isn't much fartherahead
loud mason
Hey guys?, i really like assi spec, but its so undertuned for the moment. do you think it will ever change in some patches forward?
balmy condor
Hope atm is next week with raid tuning
night radish
so the best legendary is the dashing scoundrel š®
pliant wing
Am i the only feeling the lack of energy as sin so weird to play ?
stable urchin
!stats
prisma monolithBOT
**Shadowlands: ** Haste > Versatility => Critical Strike => Mastery
slow sail
what is the best slot for Zoldyck Insignia?
real inlet
I have a few questions:
- What ability is causing me to be able to use my stealth abilities for 1 cast? It is seemingly random. I'm running 2-2-1-2-2-2-3 build and can't figure out what is causing it.
- Crimson Tempest doesn't seem to always put the DoT up even if there is only a couple of targets. Is it bugged?
- Idk if this is rogue specific, but I keep getting a parachute everytime I jump. Why?
real inlet
Subterfuge happens in the middle of combat after the 3 seconds has expired and I haven't used vanish?
placid dawn
No, it can't be that
plain thistle
maybe sepesis then?
real inlet
It was happening last night while leveling (only 54 atm) there would be like 3-5 targets and it wouldn't apply to any of them even in melee range.
somber thistle
For the legendary zoldyck is one slot better than the other or does it just matter on which piece of gear would make it a better upgrade?
spice spire
Generally you want it on the piece with the higher stat cap, so legs. Correct?
plain thistle
yes and no, celerity (outlaw legendary) for example, you can put on shoulder and ring
we dont have 2 good rings from the raid, sĆ³ the recomendation for now is to put it on the ring
because we have a good shoulder from the raid
ofc you can get a good ring on the weekly mythic plus cache, and you can never drop the raid shoulder š¤·āāļø
spice spire
Well yeah, same with MA, but in zoldyck thereās valid boots and legs iirc, so just higher stat cap
plain thistle
thats why there is no clear answer for that
you can also check the bis list
!bis
prisma monolithBOT
Whispyrs Bis list: http://tiny.cc/76r5tz
spice spire
Thatās pretty fair
spice spire
plain thistle
there you go š
cold rampart
!bis trinket
prisma monolithBOT
Whispyrs Bis list: http://tiny.cc/76r5tz
cold rampart
i failed computer skills at school dude i dont understand excel
proper sage
what are you having trouble understanding in that doc
balmy condor
If you have a suggestion to make it more readable Iām all ears
But also trinkets arenāt fully implemented in sims yet
strange python
!fuu
prisma monolithBOT
Fuus Shadowlands evaluation Spreadsheet: http://tiny.cc/uxr1tz
balmy condor
So itās hard to judge truly whatās bis
Mystler put it very eloquently in the last announcement in #tc-updates
grim mason
Anyone know the total amount of honor to gear fully?
pulsar sundial
yo, is ambush even worth using dudes?
balmy condor
Only with blindside procs
balmy condor
Nutty bad, yeah
teal stratus
he doesnt know 
rain sedge
Anyone who knows what covenant would be best for rogue?
balmy condor
Theyāre all the same
stoic needle
NF, Venthyr and Necrolord all have their own merits
rain sedge
But do they all work fine with all specs?
I want too try out all 3 specs but I already have too choose covenant
south drum
So I caved and tried out sub. Is it suppoese to be just spam shadowstrick/eviscrate?
balmy condor
Thereās guides in that channel
I would take a look at those, theyāre well written
olive egret
Assassin buff waiting room 
real bay
this
olive egret
I went sub because it uses daggers too with hopes of assass getting some love so I can come back home.
balmy condor
uneven summit
hmmm to make doomblade or wait for zoldyck
balmy condor
I would suggest waiting
balmy condor
Wouldnāt suggest crafting 190ās
uneven summit
havenĀ“t gotten it yet
balmy condor
Ilvl matters a lot
ripe gulch
but im playing sub so im not crafting it
balmy condor
What
ripe gulch
yes
so what
id rather have 2 different legendary powers
than being locked to 1
just so i can get 10 more agility
balmy condor
Aight
If thatās what you wanna do
Zoldyckās definitely better to wait for tho
sand otter
arctic cove
is zolduck guaranteed next week?
old snow
what might be the best sin pvp legendary? still zolydick?
arctic cove
so with all the hate sin is getting (rightfully so), will zolduck help with boosting sins dmg?
to a place where people might actually play it
old snow
prob not
knotty bear
Well sub is 15% ahead and will also get lego... so no probably not
knotty bear
In pvp probs... gameplay is toxic as hell
balmy condor
so with all the hate sin is getting (rightfully so), will zolduck help with boos...
Sin doesnāt scale any harder than any other spec in the game
Zoldyck boosts damage
lunar whale
i feel like theyll get nerfed in pvp as well
balmy condor
But everyone else also getting legendaries
knotty bear
Pray for tuning :)
dusk tinsel
Is sub and Sin doing relatively the same dmg in pve?
balmy condor
sin is doing significantly less
dusk tinsel
Thats unfortunate :(. Maybe legendary raid patterns will close the gap
drifting cloud
they dont
north pewter
Im honestly finding that I'm not having any trouble doing damage. I'm not top dps, but I'm not going to be a raid carry or anything. To me, and this is just my opinion, if sin is fun keep playing it.
real bay
chances are it wont stay this bad for long
arctic cove
@north pewter are u playing with MA?
old snow
i just tested it out, did 5 min on raid training dummys with both sin and sub, im 182 ilvl with ma legendary, and i did 16% less dmg with sin
north pewter
Im not saying it's not less damage
arctic cove
are u using MA tho guac?
north pewter
No
north pewter
My job seems to think they need me 40 hours a week so I havent had a ton of time since Thanksgiving
old snow
state of sin gives me depression
arctic cove
same dude š i hate playing sub
old snow
i tried to test it out on dummys with hope that diff mby just mby isnt that big, but it is, and i dont even wanna talk pvp, it isnt even close there
its like to a point that if you are not sub you are just straight up inting
frigid kestrel
Fun Fact: Everyday I look at the sim channel and check to see if the pins were updated to reflect sins most recent buff.
Also, everyday I am severely disappointed that there is in fact no buffs to sin. 
old snow
i remember everyone saying before how they want sub back, and how sub is more fun and more skillful etc
now that im playing is
atomic gate
Zero chance in hell there's no tuning by the end of the week
old snow
is the most braind dead boring spec i played in quite sime time
arctic cove
is numbing posion the best pvp posion for both specs?
frigid kestrel
Zero chance in hell there's no tuning by the end of the week
Iām assuming there will be some sin tuning after the first 2 weeks of raid release.
old snow
is numbing posion the best pvp posion for both specs?
im pretty sure most people playcripling in pvp
strange python
crippling/wound
knotty bear
i don't even understand how someone can find 2 button rotations fun
sub awkward at 2-4 targets and then 5+ is snoozefest imo
ancient cosmos
And rupturing everything and it still dying b4 u can do dmg is somehow more fun ?
knotty bear
multi dotting way more engaging for me
knotty bear
well yeah, it sucks at the moment because you put in all the effort for no pay off :p
ancient cosmos
but m+ i rather play sub than outlaw
frigid kestrel
And rupturing everything and it still dying b4 u can do dmg is somehow more fun ...
Things dying before the rupture damage took its full duration helped with more damage output due to providing you with unlimited energy so you can FOK/CT Spam.......
And in high keys your bleeds stayed for the most part.
Look sub is fun, I wonāt say itās not. I just love Sin more.
knotty bear
i just wonder if sub would still be "fun" if it didnt do the big dam it's currently doing
miss old iterations of all 3 specs
legion was fun
gleaming eagle
why do they give rupture to sub
i think rupture should be a sin only ability
or at least give rupture on sin an additional effect
like dmg on hti
hit*
real bay
it should do way more dmg as sin
real bay
its the bleed/poison spec after all
gleaming eagle
did sub get rupture in previous expansions?
knotty bear
why does my tooltip rupture do less as sin
does tooltip not factor mast?
wait nevermind... guess sub mast buffs rupture more than sin mast lul
balmy condor
did sub get rupture in previous expansions?
Sub was the bleed spec back in wod
Had hemorrhage as well, debuff on a target that increased the bleed damage you dealt to it
Also had garrote but didnāt use it iirc
gleaming eagle
i see
balmy condor
Also had crimson tempest
And slice
Back then
And maybe a passive or something that increased damage done to a target if they had a rupture on them?
tall jay
!fuu
prisma monolithBOT
Fuus Shadowlands evaluation Spreadsheet: http://tiny.cc/uxr1tz
stoic needle
Ok y'all hear me out
fleet whale
yeah sub through cata and wod
had sanguinary veins that made you deal more damage on enemies with a bleed on them
stoic needle
What if the vial of caustic liquid effect was a baseline passive for sin
If a mob dies before our dots expire, they explode and do the remaining damage to everyone around them
fleet whale
idk
that doesn't really fit sin
like theme wise, that seems more like an unholy dk thing
strange python
reminds me of the Legion afflock seed explosion or the mobs exploded after they die
fleet whale
nah, i don't feel it
make FoK deal additional poison damage on enemies already poisoned
as baseline
make envenom buff also make your mut's deal additional damage as poison
so envenom uptime can matter a little more
buff up rupture and maybe garrote
garrote now generates 2 cps from stealth
velvet jolt
sounds like tuning numbers for me
stoic needle
I would love to see any synergy between the kits abilities besides shiv and envenom
I had an idea earlier that sin needs its own premed
fleet whale
bring back either Toxic blade or kingsbane as baseline, move shiv to pure utility
and personally, i would like cut to the chase back for sin
stoic needle
If you have x number of bleeds or poisons up your next mut applies snd
stoic needle
Ooh
fleet whale
so you only pressed it once
stoic needle
I like that
fleet whale
and wod basically made SnD baseline
stoic needle
Why the hell did they get rid of that lol
fleet whale
cause blizz forgot
that assassin had cut to the chase since wotlk apparently
and assassin was built around that in mind
stoic needle
What a shame
fleet whale
and the whole "unpruning" mindset, when they could've chosen better things to unprune
when SnD has always sort of been a meh ability
stoic needle
I just don't understand how they can make an ability like premed, proving that they think it's ok for one ability to trigger snd, but not give it to sin
stoic needle
buoyant quest
it'll be okay
fleet whale
and it's ok if they didn't want to change sin much
buoyant quest
... eventually.
stoic needle
I'm just here because I like to stab things
fleet whale
but they should've carried over some of the bfa borrowed power
if they weren't going to change it much
sub and outlaw got significant enough change where it didn't matter that much
balmy condor
They were good
stoic needle
They made some traits baseline for several specs
fleet whale
yeah but not for sin
which is why i would propose garrote generating 2 cps when used in stealth
stoic needle
This is depressing lol
Why do sin and arms both have to be shit? Does blizzard just hate slower paced specs?
fleet whale
whole 45 talent row should be changes
50 talent row should be changed
at least arms has condemn
a real execute btw
stoic needle
It sucks to be actually forced into a covenant to feel like a real class
People like to complain about that in here... They have no idea how bad it could be
fleet whale
zoldyck might be assassin's best leggo, but it doesn't turn assassin into some "god execute class"
that i see people claim it to be
stoic needle
I'm unsure how long CN bosses will actually stay in the "execute phase"
fleet whale
i stated that assassin may need a 15% buff to catch up in subtlety
stoic needle
I don't think it'll be enough to make sub top tier
fleet whale
and i got laughed at š¦
stoic needle
So who's got an uncle at blizzard?
knotty bear
antorus sin
balmy condor
and i got laughed at š¦
by who tho
daring imp
balmy condor
anyone who laughs at "sin needs 15% to be on par with sub" hasn't seen any numbers 
daring imp
daring imp
no clue i just saved the dude's pic from years ago
you missed a core part of the rotation lul
balmy condor
@normal olive you had competition in legion apparently
balmy condor
daring imp
throw toys on the macros
#showtooltips Stealth
/dismount
/cast [nostealth]world enlarger
/cast [nostealth]Vindicator's Armor Polish Kit
/cast [nostealth]Bondable Sinstone
/cast [nostealth]Copy of Daglop's Contract
/cast [nostealth]Burning Blade
/cast [nostealth]Stealth
balmy condor
daring imp
lul
i think i got muted or something from using /roar on every mutilate on arenas, something like that
normal olive
yeah train doesn't spam the chat full
daring imp
Ƨ_Ƨ
left plaza
because i had /train on every ability
oh dude i hate u too. jk.
i really really really hate /train
pliant sorrel
wtf is showing up as kingslayers
on the sim
or is that king slayers
rip kingslayers ;_;
gleaming eagle
the problem with sin is that the class needs build up
so it should be the highest dps in terms of longer fights
and since its single target focus it should have the highest single target dmg
fleet whale
@balmy condor i don't want to call out names
balmy condor
lmao
honest lagoon
Ok so I'm lvling an ass rogue and just entered maldraxxus. Am I missing something or is Serrated Bone Spike really useless?
fleet whale
sbs damage is weak
honest lagoon
I mean I can see it add up to like 3-5% of my dps on a boss fight, more if its a council fight but still
fleet whale
the ability only becomes good with soulbinds
honest lagoon
Ah ok
If you wanna play ass but not suck just reroll fotm feral druid
And then in 2 weeks when ass gets buffed and feral goes back to bottom you can whine on their discord instead ;)
normal olive
honest lagoon
Ye totally //vulpera rogue
honest lagoon
Always find it funny how mirrored their play style is of ass. Same kind of buttons when playing with savage roar
Like I feel like blizzy has been trying to make things not only be unique but also feel unique. And then you have feral which trades in TB for snapshotting bleeds and the rest is pretty much the same buttons
sharp pivot
What is needed assa to be ok ?
balmy condor
more damage
bigger number do the big boom
and then idk, a redesign for m+
cause our aoe philosophy is kinda nonexistant
sharp pivot
y
vale quest
is assassin rogue good now
vale quest
it's still beta
balmy condor
well we have crimson tempest technically
but the idea is to multi-dot
except the dots don't do damage
so its kinda not a lot of damage
and poisons could do something, but they don't, and there's nothing to buff them in aoe, so that's not it
normal olive
and everything dies before you get to multidot everything
balmy condor
and poison katar is really bad
so there's no fok spam like in bfa
so bleed is out of the picture, poison is kinda meh, its bis because there's no other real options (lethal poisons and zoldyck), fok isn't good
sin having identity crisis
sharp pivot
Ok
I'm playing outlaw because I don't like sub, I really love assa spec...
but I don't want to be under all people in assa
in raid
stoic needle
I want sin to be good so badly
compact osprey
I guess Combat is the go to right now?
Trying to figure out whether I need to be investing in swords, daggers, or both
compact osprey
But Assa is fun š¦
balmy condor
if you're not pushing content too hard, you can also still play sin
steep badger
Rec sub if sin gets buffed and you don't wana worry about weps š
balmy condor
the damage gain isn't really needed if all you're doing is like +10's and heroic raiding
so as long as your group is okay with it
play what you find fun
its a game after all
compact osprey
I mean I don't plan on doing Mythic raiding, but i hate being garbage
balmy condor
yeah, then sub or outlaw
compact osprey
I really dont like the feel of Sub
balmy condor
probably the go to
and pray for buffs
with the rest of us
in the church of assassination
steep badger
^
steep badger
I hated the feel of sub at the start but once you get the hang of it its not so bad. Will still switch to sin in a hot minute if we get the buffs we need. Was just sick of losing to my faceroll marks hunter friends by a few hundred dps. Smashing them w sub now but it shouldn't be this way.
compact osprey
What kind of talents do you run with Sub?
real bay
balance will be restored soon 
compact osprey
Do I literally just spam SD on cooldown and mash Shadowstrike?
real bay
Kapp
steep badger
1/2/3/4/6/6/2 at the moment but just running mythic 0's
compact osprey
And Shuriken Storm/Black Powder for AoE?
steep badger
depends on target count but you should bring it to the sub chat
steep badger
whoops!
normal olive
xD
steep badger
1/3/2/1/3/3/2
compact osprey
Bleh.
steep badger
my pref because my groups aoe heavy and i like winning but rec simming and whatever fits your playstyle
compact osprey
I'm the same.. I like that pack to pack top dps slot
IMO trash damage in mythic keys has more weight to it
steep badger
with the MA lego, its kind of nuts what you can do in the windows
compact osprey
See I don't know anything about the leggos at all
compact osprey
What about Marked for Death?
steep badger
boss dps tho!
balmy condor
not as good as deeper for sub
compact osprey
And what leggo are you referring to?
balmy condor
you take marked for sin though
old snow
how do we feel about memory of sephuz in pvp?
compact osprey
I appreciate all the info btw
steep badger
global locked before spending energy would be my guess w vigor, extra env windows perhaps? Idk whisp's brain runs on that high octane stuff. Shortly put I'll roll with low stats atm but vigor should shred it after nathria gear for sure
balmy condor
marked for sin? in what context
marked in m+
normal olive
steep badger
basically to abuse those low hp mobs for big finishers to make up for our lack of anything else
to hurt things with
25 extra 5 combo point envenoms make a dif over a run
normal olive
dunno just don't really like mfd outside of pvp
steep badger
Still though I think vigor will shred it once we have better stats
normal olive
and st
steep badger
its just competative atm
grim mason
so if assas is so bad right now, are you guys just not playing or what
normal olive
i'd say most are just playing sub or outlaw
grim mason
oh ok
olive egret
Playing sub, hoping for changes
balmy condor
yep sub
dull fox
Is poison build a thing anymore?
balmy condor
that's what we're running with atm
balmy condor
more posts everyday on it here, maybe we'll get noticed
I dare not go into the cesspool of official forums
shits worse than #subtlety
fallow otter
Lol
That channel also has its moments
I wonder if sin gonna be dead as long as sub was
supple compass
@balmy condor finally someone said it, channel is wack rn
supple compass
Even the usual familiar faces have abandoned it
balmy condor
people ping me in there from time to time
but I usually don't go in there
not willingly, at least
supple compass
Itās either people asking the same brain dead questions over and over or the rest giving braindead answers
I guess itāll die down in a month or two tho when people roll off it
balmy condor
mostly the second one XD
I don't mind braindead questions really
everyone's at a different level of knowledge
so yes, there's like, really stupid questions, but usually fine
uncut schooner
I think I'll die inside if someone asks me about covs and legendaries again.
fleet whale
hot take: Current sub is just havoc demon hunter with daggers
balmy condor
its the braindead answers that really suck
fleet whale
that a lot of people hype up as being "complex"
balmy condor
because you try to correct the braindead answer
shy dust
I donāt see how you can argue otherwise
balmy condor
and they're like UH EXCUSE ME IM THE SUB PLAYER
fleet whale
you spend most of the time spamming SS and evis
uncut schooner
It took me like... a few hours? To get the entire Sub rotation down and get a good feel for it.
shy dust
š¤
uncut schooner
It's not as complex as people kept telling me it would be.
fleet whale
and yeah you put up rupture and SnD to mix things up a bit, but sub swims in cps that it isn't really a big deal
shadow tulip
W/o symbols, it feels slow to me
uncut schooner
I'm chasing after my conduits and legendaries recipes for Assa anyway.
uncut schooner
I mean, even if I can't get them immediately I'll be able to pick them up pretty easily during m+ runs.
fleet whale
besides assassin's best leggo comes from torghast
uncut schooner
Tho blizz haven't said what key levels will drop what loot atm, right?
fleet whale
this is feels craft but by level 10 it should be a 100% chance to drop
uncut schooner
Someone told me the highest key level we'd be going up to is 6?
uncut schooner
The chest should be giving mythic raid ilvl equivalents, if I'm not mistaken and then +6 should give us heroic equivalent gear.
At least, based off what a guildie told me. Not sure whether it was revealed in some earlier wowhead post or something.
uncut schooner
Ah, we are going up to +15s then?
Ah... scratch that, wouldn't make sense.
Be like 2 ilvls per key that way lol
fleet whale
lol apparently there was some streamer
suggestion that you don't have to rupture as sub
and it caused some shitstorm
fleet whale
i don't think so or else they would've mentioned it
Push apparently was watching the stream though and left lol
uncut schooner
Yikes.
fleet whale
i wonder if you could sim sub though without casting rupture
and see how much the dps loss is
like i kind of want that to be done but even if it's only like a 5% loss i'm scared of the can of worms it might open lol
sad thing is I also think sub not casting rupture is still ahead of sin š¦
supple compass
@balmy condor is inscrutable a sim trap, iive heard that but idk if its fake news since idk if thres any way to manipulate the trink
fleet whale
in M+ and the opener of any boss it's good
be careful in tougher fights with high damage in take though
so yeah it's a sim trap... but still usable if you have nothing else and can even be very good
i would not use it on the harder nathria fights though
balmy condor
<@!167090536602140682> is inscrutable a sim trap, iive heard that but idk if its...
in what?
the quantum device?
quantum device is very good
fleet whale
wow whisp i'm glad you like the trinket lol
some people just shrug it off when i tried saying it was good
low girder
you just gotta not hit it randomly
supple compass
maybe i shouldnt have
low girder
in M+ it's probably even better tbh
fleet whale
on opener use it like everything else
low girder
ye i just mean after that
fleet whale
after that just pay attention to your teams hp
low girder
it is
fleet whale
it's only when your team is at 30% or less hp or mana
the mana could be a problem, but there shouldn't be many moments
with a party member below 30
and it also does a big hit execute when used on the boss with low hp
fallow otter
quantum device is very good
Good but can it be relied on? Also 3m cd but on the upside it doubles as a pvp trinket so I didn't buy one yet
fallow otter
Well no it can't
fleet whale
how many times in a fight
balmy condor
sure, there MIGHT be a time when it cucks you
fleet whale
are people below 30% hp
balmy condor
but even then, the effect isn't bad
fleet whale
like constantly
balmy condor
so why are you complaining
fallow otter
And lower than 20% mana
fleet whale
like that could be a problem in longer fights
but in your typical 4-5 min fight i don't think so
stuck shuttle
what ilvl base item do i need to buy for the MA ring? I got my MA in M0
stuck shuttle
so i can get a 200+ ilvl one if i wanted to?
fleet whale
well you can't make it this reset
balmy condor
yes but you'll need more ash
fleet whale
but you can the next
fleet whale
yes
stuck shuttle
ty š
fleet whale
dont' worry
we answer sub questions too
and the discord isn't a constant stream of comments so you won't get lost
stuck shuttle
ty ty
arctic cove
well while u mentioned it, im about to craft my MA, and im trying out sub atm
should i go for vers/mast?
arctic cove
should i maybe go vers/crit?
maybe works IF i try other specs aswell no?
yeah i did it yolo
balmy condor
vers crit is single target yes
fallow otter
Just for reference ill be starting raid with one but I have worries lol
What if it drops the taunt bot on an add boss and we need to move the boss
Who cares about heroic but it's a worry for prog
It's a true ??? Indeed lol
balmy condor
???????
why would it drop the taunt bot
unless your raid is omega trolling
and trying to make tank rogue viable
you telling me your tanks can't hold aggro in a 20 man raid, and you're popping a 3 min trinket when you got mobs on you?
balmy condor
I mean
I'm tired of people acting like the trinket is garbage
just because you got like a 1/150 pull chance
umbral rapids
Wich one
fallow otter
Im more feelsbadman about the mana
umbral rapids
Whicj
fallow otter
It ain't garbage, I've had it on since I looted it haha
balmy condor
I know it isn't garbage
I keep telling everyone its not
and yet people still are like
hUrR bUt WhAt iF iT dOeSnT
umbral rapids
Which one is it ?
balmy condor
quantum device
fallow otter
Getting 500crit on opener is a bonarfest
umbral rapids
It looks fine idk
steep badger
i get haste almost every time, only had it cuck me once bc the meatstick huntard next to me stood in bad and was near death
things reallly good overall
umbral rapids
Omg itās so bad that you were able to save them :(
steep badger
was one time and he bragged about beating me in deeps that fight by like 150 dps after it saved his life in the final 10% so yeah
shrugged it off, its good.
broken swift
balmy condor
same opener as with MA the talent
balmy condor
you go subterfuge and 3x garrote into a fok
steep badger
ahh yeah makes sense, think its just my pvp brain drooling over the idea
balmy condor
with subterfuge you also mutilate
fleet whale
eh debatable with low levels of crit
balmy condor
not debatable
steep badger
fleet whale
i mean, both of your mut hits need to crit to get 4 cps
balmy condor
yes they do
fleet whale
so it's a compromise, you may get more cps with mut, ambush hits slightly harder and costs more energy
split flume
!guide
prisma monolithBOT
steep badger
so not debatable
fleet whale
i mean it's still a gamble? unless if the 10 less energy is really worth it
balmy condor
sure
but it's a non-trivial gain in sims
to cast a mut instead of an ambush
so on average, you're going to get a gain
fight by fight gamble, sure
but if the decisions has to be made
then the numbers say mut
fleet whale
i mean i would love to mutilate instead, but these crit levels are pathetic
balmy condor
?
did you even look at the sims
I ran those sims at like 175 ilvl
with my gear from last week
your crit will surely be better by now
fleet whale
i have 18% crit lol
balmy condor
oh god
nvm
probably still a gain for you though
I checked a fresh char too, didn't include it
fleet whale
yeah if i had like 24% crit or whatever it would prolly be different
but i'm still in my phase of just getting high ilvl gear
balmy condor
I really don't think it matters that much
river quarry
craggy wave
No
balmy condor
hotfixes didn't touch spec balance
it was literally just one fix
which was for sepsis
fleet whale
it's a nice hotfix for sub though
summer spade
what is that fix cant find it, cna anyone link the hotfix?
balmy condor
summer spade
thanks thanks
low girder
just noting here with the sepsis change blindside procs still use the sepsis stealth ability buff
viscid mantle
Do you guys think that Assassination is strong right now? š
I have never played it and was kinda wondering where the community thinks it stands
balmy condor
assassination is one of the weakest specs in the game atm
and gets outclassed by both other rogue specs, in every regard
viscid mantle
š¦ unfortunate
warped heart
trying to determine if this video is still relevant... haven't tried yet. Thoughts?
balmy condor
I mean, kinda I guess
we don't really mention he who should not be named in here
there's also nowhere near that many floor open atm
and nowhere near that many anima powers are obtainable in one run
so maybe?
balmy condor
no
low girder
he can't, he has a blood contract
drifting cosmos
Ch would feel like dead
balmy condor
I changed to blue for like 5 hours during beta
and everyone got really uncomfy
so I changed back
echo gust
sin still bad?.
balmy condor
scroll up a little
low girder
i wouldn't bet on anything changing until after heroic week
maybe on tuesday going in
until then yeah, sin not good
drifting cosmos
Or maybe next raid 
?
marble hemlock
keep in mind also
that distract anima power
used to count as 100 anima powers
on beta
etc.
i did a run earlier, it wasnt bad
felt pretty safe
but i also have good gear
and had decent powers
and blob boss is a joke
low girder
Or maybe next raid <:monkaW:675691826505711626> ?
ye there's no guarantee sin will be good, i just meant until then we're not gonna get balance changes
i got that distract power once and forgot i took it lol
marble hemlock
i got it then had an entire floor of mobs fighting each other, being in combat with each other, so it was useless
marble hemlock
its really good though
makes clearing mobs way easier especially when you wanna take it slow and steady
but yeah i mean
i had insane assa runs as well
on beta
when you have high crit and stuff cause you get so many passive secondary upgrades
low girder
ye
and the hotfix buffs to all our defensive powers seem pretty good
especially the vial ones
gaunt aspen
balmy condor
maybe not shit