assassination

[civic palm]

To be fair most of it should still work.

and if there's a unified spell for the Cov. Abilities like there was for the neck ability it's a simple ID swap.

[balmy condor]

I haven't seen it

but it might well exist

[civic palm]

and anyone can make a SnD WA, four click ezpz.

[balmy condor]

but not everyone can make it like you miz

[civic palm]

I mean that's sad my SnD WA would just be the template with the number colored @ a certain duration > _>

[balmy condor]

but the special ingredient of love

[civic palm]

It's the polish.

I beat my interns real good to make those WAs.

[night summit]

No idea what covenant to pick lol

[rapid harbor]

yea same

[balmy condor]

kyrian here :D

[real bay]

yolo

[night summit]

I just dont wanna get fucked

[balmy condor]

they're all fine

[atomic gate]

im just gonna pick a covenent that feels good

dont wanna hurt my brain too long

[plain thistle]

yup, thats fine

[alpine pendant]

!stats

[prisma monolith]

**Shadowlands: ** Haste > Versatility => Critical Strike => Mastery

[umbral rapids]

@balmy condor happy launch friend

[balmy condor]

[night summit]

has the venthyr ability been fixed?

[balmy condor]

it works as the abilityu

the leveling one is broken

[night summit]

thanks

[balmy condor]

np

[stiff current]

Has anyone else noticed that subterfuge is broken for anything other than garrote (eg. can only ambush once), or is it just me?

[balmy condor]

I haven't heard of it

but I'll check in a second

[worldly orbit]

do you lads drop an ambush on the free stealth attack from sepsis?

or what do you recommend

[stiff current]

is weird... i can garrote multiple times no problem, but i hit ambush once out of stealth and then it goes grey and "requires stealth"

[balmy condor]

yep

[worldly orbit]

cheers

[balmy condor]

not free though btw

keep that in mind

still costs energy afaik

they're all very close

[worldly orbit]

oh one more thing, at how many targets do i just stop refreshing slice and dice and focus on rupturing/garroting everything

[stiff current]

yeah but with 170 energy i should be able to hit it 3 times back to back and I can't hit the button after the first from stealth

[balmy condor]

you can pick whatever you want

[balmy condor]

6, but the difference from sustaining at 5 vs just always sustaining isn't really noticable

so if its easier for you, you can just always sustain

[worldly orbit]

thank you very much!

[balmy condor]

my pleasure

[sand otter]

did you end up going Kyrian Whis?

[balmy condor]

yes

[sand otter]

sweet

im just now finishing the bastion story

[worldly orbit]

woops need to annoy you again, my current opener is garrote > ambush > garrote > rupture > mutilate > snd > cooldowns > sepsis

[balmy condor]

sure

[worldly orbit]

is that about right?

[balmy condor]

yeah that's close enough

you wouldn't want to double garrote single target

[stiff current]

figured out what it was... I had a /cancelform [form:2] in my macro in case i'm in soulshape... apparently that somehow is sufficient to cancel the special stealth state from subterfuge lol

[worldly orbit]

i always assumed for the pandemic, would i just garrote > ambush > ambush > rupture perhaps?

[balmy condor]

the double garrote for pandemic was connected to shrouded suff

but yeah, garrote ambush ambush if you're going subt

we technically take MA on pure single target, but that row is very competitive

[worldly orbit]

yeah its mainly dungeoning/world content i was wondering about. thank you again

[balmy condor]

np

[sand otter]

still not sure what im doing covenant wise

[stiff current]

Thanks for the sanity check Whispyr... lesson learned: apprently subterfuge is considered a form and not just stealth so it counts as form2 just like soulshape so /cancelform [form:2] in a macro that uses stealth stuff is bad juju

[balmy condor]

if I had a nickel for every person who's said that in the last 2 days

[balmy condor]

yup

imo stance macros are pretty unnecessary

just cause me headaches mostly

[sand otter]

90% sure im going night fae

unless the story makes a left turn

[balmy condor]

it gets better

[sand otter]

i meant where the story ties into sylvanas 😛

[balmy condor]

oh right, you're one of those simps

I keep forgetting even though I stare at her face constantly

thoughts how? I think its fun

[stiff current]

/cast [stealth,nocombat] Pick Pocket
/cast [bonusbar:1][nobonusbar:1,mod] Ambush; Mutilate```
Is pretty useful for me personally... pick pocket and ambush if stealth or subterfuge or sepsis buff, else mutilate... can basically just spam it and it'll swap to ambush in every case except a blindside proc (hence the `mod`)

[sand otter]

simp is such a harsh word

i prefer loyalist

[balmy condor]

a loyal simp

[sand otter]

cannot deny that

idk the WC3 story and books just get me every time

been playing this universe since before you were born lol

[balmy condor]

probably true

[sand otter]

1994 Whisp

xD

[balmy condor]

[sand otter]

keep your youth

dont get old

[grim thistle]

Hey there guys.
Quick question: Venthyr is currently the best covenant for all around the rogue, right?

Or is it pure preference at this point?

[balmy condor]

they're all close

pretty much pure preference

venthyr is probably 3rd

kyrian and night fae are the two at the top, then venthyr/necro towards the bottom

but even that is like

2-3%

[grim thistle]

Oh ok, perfect. Thank you!
Is there any guide / video explaining stuff a bit?
Just to make the right decision from the beginning

[balmy condor]

so pick whatever you want

[grim thistle]

Ok perfect
Fair enough
Thank you!

[nocturne orchid]

!stats

[prisma monolith]

**Shadowlands: ** Haste > Versatility => Critical Strike => Mastery

[winter flicker]

!stats

[prisma monolith]

**Shadowlands: ** Haste > Versatility => Critical Strike => Mastery

[weary marten]

the nightfae stealth spell you gain from sepsis, can't empower garrote right ?

[balmy condor]

correct

[weary marten]

what's the point of it then ?

just for master assassin ?

[balmy condor]

it doesn't give you combat effects from stealth

so no master assassin, no subt

[weary marten]

is it just about the dot cuz it scales well with assa mastery or some shit ?

[balmy condor]

the dot is the main part, yes

[weary marten]

but it's not good in the other specs

[balmy condor]

yes it is

[weary marten]

you don't really care about a bonus shadowstrike or embush in others specs do you ?

[balmy condor]

well like I said, the dot is the main part

the free ability is basically whatever

can see some niche in pvp with a cheap shot or something

but for pve, doesn't really do anything

[weary marten]

drawback also : my stealth bind cheap shot is my mutilate unstealth xD so when it procs i can't mutilate anymore 😂

yeah but you need to be 10-15 sec ahead of that cheap shot

[dim glacier]

Can double dps assass get far in 2s

[balmy condor]

its still a cheap shot you wouldn't be able to use otherwise

[dim glacier]

I playbwith a surv hunter

[balmy condor]

should probably ask the #pvp guys that

I would assume not

considering how bad sin is atm

[weary marten]

yeah kyrian vial fucking up totalyl assa spec

[balmy condor]

what?

[weary marten]

dispelling bleeds and poison

in pvp it's a huge assa slap

[balmy condor]

oh

[weary marten]

20% hp and this effect ... wth

[balmy condor]

yeah I guess it would be rough

I don't really pvp much

[urban kernel]

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Fuus Shadowlands evaluation Spreadsheet: http://tiny.cc/uxr1tz

[strange python]

i bet you can re-enter stealth from the end of sepsis kinda like with nelf shadowmeld

just once your invis hit the stealth button and its like a vanish

[balmy condor]

[strange python]

Nelf shadowmeld

into stealth

[balmy condor]

that's just actually not how sepsis works though

[strange python]

does it make you invis?

[balmy condor]

no

[strange python]

leave combat?

[balmy condor]

it specifically says "allows the use of a stealth ability"

[strange python]

oh

its a shadowdance then

[balmy condor]

it doesn't drop combat, it doesn't stealth, it doesn't give the combat benefits of stealth, doesn't give you stealth legendaries, stealth talents

none of it

[strange python]

a one shot shadowdance

[balmy condor]

it doesn't even give the shadow dance bonuses to sub

[strange python]

ya

[balmy condor]

it is "the use of a stealth ability"

[strange python]

a cheapshot is a cheapshot tho

[balmy condor]

and thats it

[strange python]

kinda weird since it is a rogue skill but since NF is one of the most powerful they probs not gonna care

[real bay]

fairy is da wae

[strange python]

i'm leaning that direction

between fae and vamps

for me

[real bay]

yep

[strange python]

!guide

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide

[nocturne orchid]

aight i shut my trap sepsis is actually pretty good

[full sandal]

which covenant for subt

[balmy condor]

doesn't matter

they're all really close

[fleet whale]

I topped meters in a 5 man dungeon as SIn

#underdoglife

[errant delta]

Yer same

[strange python]

!stats

[prisma monolith]

**Shadowlands: ** Haste > Versatility => Critical Strike => Mastery

[weary lintel]

is sin looking good (raid/m+) or outclassed by sub/outlaw ?

[balmy condor]

Mega outclassed atm

Worse than sub was in bfa

[weary lintel]

ouch

[balmy condor]

Pray for the buffs come heroic week

[pallid notch]

Has Sin fallen too far behind Sub to make it viable?

[balmy condor]

yep

[lilac robin]

!guide

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide

[verbal stirrup]

Does sepsis activate subterfuge

[balmy condor]

no

no stealth effects

[verbal stirrup]

Damn

[marsh fjord]

So guys, im playing sin and i just got to bastion and got the covenant ability with the combo points, but i dont get how it should be used, can anyone explain

[balmy condor]

you use the ability, it empowers a combo point, if you finish on that combo point, it acts as if it were a 7cp finisher

just dump into envenom

and gg

[marsh fjord]

ah that makes sense

thanks bud ❤️

[balmy condor]

np

[marsh fjord]

I just tested it i did a 2.2k envenom

[dim yacht]

anyone know if essence of bloodfang works with crimson tempest?

oh wait i misread nvm

same question, but with fan of knives i guess lol

[balmy condor]

yes

[dim yacht]

nice

[latent adder]

so like does it matter what sanctum reservoirs we pick? also what do i use anima for

[balmy condor]

doesn't really matter no

sanctum upgrades are all QoL

the mission table isn't that lucrative either

[steep badger]

Whisp, meant to ask the other day. What's the best way to use lead by example as sin then as sub?

as in best times to toss it up energy efficieny wise

[balmy condor]

sims don't really optimize lbe that much, but I think its a pretty safe bet to save a charge before you shiv

[steep badger]

slap that spike>shiv>env

i like it

perhaps wrong room but what about sub?

[balmy condor]

hold a charge before sod for sure

[steep badger]

worth to refresh during?

[balmy condor]

nah

slam the ss instead

[quasi spoke]

necrolord is better than night fae right ?

[fathom echo]

hey dudes wowhead is saying Nightfae is better and pins say Kirian. is one of these sources out dated

[steep badger]

super close m8

[balmy condor]

yeah they're all super close

necro is slightly worse than night fae

kyrian is better early

[steep badger]

night fae's reverse execute is mighty tempting

[balmy condor]

night fae's better with more renown

but they all have their niche

so its really up to you

[quasi spoke]

what i need for change convenant

[balmy condor]

uh, should be able to talk to the people in oribos

and they should tell you

[quasi spoke]

ok

[steep badger]

I feel like wild hunt tactics is going to get nerfed

[balmy condor]

if something gets nerfed its burrs

[steep badger]

seems op and too simple

[balmy condor]

wild hunt is balanced perfectly fine

grove invig, field of blossom, lbe, gemstone, combat meditation, dauntless

[dusky lichen]

gm guys is night fae the covenant to go instead of kyrian atm for raid?

[balmy condor]

all within 0.5% of wild hunt

[steep badger]

feels like 10 extra % for the first 25% seems like a lot, then again that's usually a lust/burn phase on a lot of bosses

[balmy condor]

they're all very close, pick your favorite

[dusky lichen]

cheers mate

[steep badger]

whisp ur a genius

ima make a bonespike symbols macro

[wide ridge]

fuck i wanna pick venthyr for mog but wanna pick nightfae for the abilities

[steep badger]

til they fix my damn spec

then itl be a spike shiv macro 😄

[fathom echo]

anyone know the ST opener now having SnD confsung me

[balmy condor]

for subt/ma, and what cov

[fathom echo]

subt / nightfae

[balmy condor]

gar ambush(or mut) snd mut rup vend sepsis shiv

[fathom echo]

is shiv used like old TB

[balmy condor]

yes

[wide ridge]

so only 2 combo builders before snd? or you mean third ambush can be a mutilate? im kinda dumb

[balmy condor]

gar build snd

you could gar build build if you really wanted to

[wide ridge]

so no garrote>ambush>ambush?

hm

[strange python]

that's what I just figured out actually haha

2 points each from ambush

into rupture

then garrote

i just have my ambush where my mutilate was to proc off subterfuge

feels really cool haha

[wide ridge]

would MA be better with night fae then?

[balmy condor]

no big difference there

[fathom echo]

is there a good macro for ambush / mut

[strange python]

ya but if you just put it on the same spot in the bar

subturfuge will do it for you automaticall

[wide ridge]

but how do you do blindside

[balmy condor]

????

no

[wide ridge]

ambush won't show up, right

[balmy condor]

correct

[strange python]

oh

i don't do blindside

[wide ridge]

i just have them in 2 diff keys so i don't go crazy

[strange python]

i like poison (:

just using ambush for subterfuge

ya

it does switch when you use subterfuge

[radiant dove]

good morning all

[strange python]

want me to screenshhot? haha

[balmy condor]

subt yes

but blindside is the problem, not the subt

[strange python]

oh gotcha

damn that's actually a tough choice

i love poison

but ambush is really fun too

[wide ridge]

i like free combo points with blindside

[strange python]

oh shit

forget that ambush was a builder techincally

dammit

now i have to soul search

[wide ridge]

which covenant did you go said

[strange python]

i am farming rn still low level to get some of those early profits

[wide ridge]

o gotcha

[strange python]

I want to cash out gold to blizz balance to merch store stuff

haha

[wide ridge]

ive been looking at this damn screen for like 30 min

can't figure out wihch one to pick

[strange python]

i know can't decide either, the best is kryian but i'm all about flavor

peeps know more about it than me, they say what 3% diff?

[wide ridge]

something like that

[balmy condor]

3% from top to bottom yeah

[strange python]

haha

that's actually kinda impressive

[wide ridge]

do you guys know if covenant mog is usable on other characters that didnt go that specific covenant?

im assuming yu cant

[balmy condor]

I don't believe so

[iron nimbus]

I do have to say, despite there not being a lot of difference I think I put the most thought into covenant choice since aldor/scryer maybe

Blizz made it feel like a very important choice at least

[outer lodge]

I think part of the reason it feels important is because we've become so accustom to Blizz just nerfing/buffing things randomly, and with a now with this "semi" permanent choice it feels scary

[iron nimbus]

Thats fair, but you can fail up. It would be a clever design choice to exploit the player base fear about that to enforce the importance of the choice

[lament dove]

tbh I don't even know what Blizzard wanted with this "meaningful choice" thing

or maybe that was about the quests that you get within a covenant

because if it's meaningful, that means it has consequences

but if it's perfectly balanced, it shouldn't have consequences...

[undone pasture]

Most of the consequences are cosmetic

[balmy condor]

and lore/rp consequences

[undone pasture]

But the main thing is u cant just swap to the other 3 abilities at will like talents

Yea they are balanced overall but one is better than the other slightly at different things

[jovial canopy]

!guide

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide

[lament dove]

hm, I just started to look into soulbinds, and I don't get one thing, in the picture in the pins, why are not the dmg traits selected...?

[balmy condor]

they usually are

which one particularly

[lament dove]

e.g. Niya or Emeni they aren't

last ones for example

on the bottom I mean

[balmy condor]

oh you mean the conduits?

damage passive > conduit

in those circumstance

[lament dove]

alright, I see, I hope I will understand this whole system when I get there lol

[steel wagon]

!stats

[prisma monolith]

**Shadowlands: ** Haste > Versatility => Critical Strike => Mastery

[sick scarab]

good mormning fellas

[uneven summit]

guess its also based alittle on the covenant no?

[balmy condor]

a little, not much though

mastery goes up a little with zoldyck

[uneven summit]

yeah i can imagine

[balmy condor]

but its pretty consistently haste > everything else

[sick scarab]

so.. after the 50 to 60 and did some dung etc. i can say that SnD at the moment with assassinasion really suck.. it feel cluncky and out of context

[uneven summit]

SnD?

[sick scarab]

we start to dps too late .. i hpe blizz will do something

slice and dice

because it is not good.. in bfa it was a minor factor but now.. mha

in my opion ofc

[balmy condor]

we didn't have snd in bfa

[sick scarab]

well prepatch

i mean bfa gear etc

now snd it is too cluncky.. we are already cluncky, energy starving.. and that snd dont fit well at all

[balmy condor]

idk, I don't think its that clunky

[uneven summit]

Snd still good on st boss fights id imagine :)

[balmy condor]

well snd is our strongest finisher

[sick scarab]

we can better without or passive or dunno

i play gamplay wise not numbers etc

do you like it in the rotation ?

[balmy condor]

yes

[sick scarab]

me no 🙂

[uneven summit]

I dont mind it, but it often comes in abit weird in the opener

[drifting cloud]

hard life pressing an extra button every 45s

blizz pls fix

[sick scarab]

and here come the pro guys

i just commentig , to me it make the spec clunxky

[drifting cloud]

assa is clunky because its 40 apm spec

not because of snd

[sick scarab]

for me snd is not good for us as it is.. they shoudl do something i dunno

i dont like

you like it

be happy and relax

you dont have to convince me

[drifting cloud]

whats next, rupture too clunky?*

[balmy condor]

guys chill

[sick scarab]

no

[balmy condor]

its snd who cares

[drifting cloud]

its an uptime finisher that makes you do more dmg, whats clunky about it

that you dont do a 2k dmg envenom instead of it?

[gritty heron]

• energy reg

[sick scarab]

zzzzz

cya rage more

btw whispyr you went kyrian ?

[marsh fjord]

i kinda like our uptime atm

is garrote and rupture still below 5.4 refreshing ? same for snd?

[balmy condor]

pandemic is always a max of 30% of the new dot

[marsh fjord]

ah that was the word i was looking for

[balmy condor]

that means rupture and snd's pandemic timers change depending on the cp you're at

[marsh fjord]

pandemic

[balmy condor]

and garrote is still 18*0.3 = 5.4

[marsh fjord]

yeah, it's just 30 % got ya

[bleak glacier]

whispyr what kyrian soulbind are you running

[balmy condor]

pelagos

[south drum]

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Fuus Shadowlands evaluation Spreadsheet: http://tiny.cc/uxr1tz

[velvet ridge]

how do i make blindside cause ambush to replace mutilate on my hotbar

[balmy condor]

#assassination message

like this

[velvet ridge]

thats an addon?

[drifting cloud]

yes

[balmy condor]

yes, you have to do it through gnome sequencer

the base game won't allow macro interactions like that

[velvet ridge]

ugh, why create a talent like that then

ty for the info

[balmy condor]

?

its supposed to add a button

not replace one

[lament dove]

hm, during leveling, since the covenant ability changes if I switch zones, which one gets picked when going into an instance? the latest one or the one I'm standing in when queueing?:)

[balmy condor]

I would assume the latest one

[velvet ridge]

i was experiencing the associated covenant to the dungeon

[balmy condor]

that would also make sense

[sudden brook]

The Venthyr covenant ability is bugged in the zone, it should work if you join the covenant.

[marsh fjord]

LULW

[uneven summit]

those are rookie numbers

you gotta pump up those numbers

[uncut schooner]

Ey Whisp.

What covenant(s) are best to pick for assa?

[balmy condor]

if I have to answer that one more time

im losing it

[hollow barn]

[royal lantern]

what best is the pick for covenant?

[hollow barn]

If sin then what cov? Pls I ned respond.

[pseudo hamlet]

Wanted to go with Night Fae(it's only about clicking one button each 1,5min), but noticed that Bastion is best now... my brain hurts with that amount of thinking

[balmy condor]

good thing

they're within like 3%

and you decision

doesn't matter

from a dps perspective

[pseudo hamlet]

Nah, I am just kidding. I actually find that ability pretty cool. The best thing is when you click on it and you get the 2 anima powered CP immediately

[fringe lily]

NIGHT FAE 4 LIFE

[balmy condor]

strictly right now, kyrian is ahead by like

1%

and then in 2 months when you can unlock the full niya tree, night fae is ahead by 1%

[umbral rapids]

@balmy condor what cov do you recommend ?

[balmy condor]

it's pretty good yeah, not sure about 'invaluable' though. mikanikos is also pretty gud, and even at the high renown levels, its still like 2.5% to kyrian

[vestal wren]

i saw quite some ppl go necro

esp. from higher guilds

[strange python]

Higher guilds ans sin rogues?

[vestal wren]

no^^

noboday is atm playing sin

[balmy condor]

[vestal wren]

it needs a slight buff to be relevant, its atm numerical in a bad place

[balmy condor]

by a ton

[vestal wren]

sin is probably still "okay-ish" in output in raids just because it can easy deal with mechanics and is very forgiving with mistakes

[strange python]

i just kept my damage higher than a hunters in a dungeon keeping my bleeds up and using serrated

for some reason serrated does way more than the tooltip says

is it the higher tick from the haste?

• mastery

[balmy condor]

it scales off haste like other bleeds/dots

unaffected by mastery though

[strange python]

but other bleeds are

just not serrated?

[balmy condor]

baseline bleeds, yes

[strange python]

gotchya

ty (:

[balmy condor]

gar/rup/poisons

ct

pb

that stuff

[strange python]

naisuu

i was just happy i didn't look like a low dmg andy

[balmy condor]

ye idk, I was doing okay as well as sin

but then I swapped to sub and instantly did like 250 dps more at the end of the dungeon

[strange python]

haha

fair enough

oh btw, some guide said poisons increase energy regen, i thought it was just bleeds

[balmy condor]

uh

they're probably mentioning that bleed ticks against poisoned targets give energy

poisons don't inherently give energy

[strange python]

oh because they were saying always keep your poisons going and throw a knife at your other target if they were too far

but it was the same guy who wanted me to do 7 moves in 3 secs

[balmy condor]

lmao

yeah not sure I would throw knife just for the poison application tbh

feels like a lot of effort

[low girder]

the only time you PK is if there's no other target you can hit and you can't get to it

[balmy condor]

yeah

[low girder]

and you're gonna energy cap

ie you got fixated on shadhar or something

[balmy condor]

I would also throw knife if its like 2 target spread cleave and you have bleeds ticking on the far boss, but the poison is going to expire

I remember doing that on coven in legion

[low girder]

queen's court also

at times

[balmy condor]

true, forgot about that

but the uses of PK are indeed very few and far between

[low girder]

queen's court i mostly just stepped to the other boss if that happened lol

[strange python]

i'm pretty handy with the knife throw but i'm not gonna worry about it if it doesn't give energy

you mean energy cap like 5cp using poison knife instead of mutilate?

[balmy condor]

energy cap as in, you're going to have more than the max energy

you're describing cp capping

and we finish at 4

[low girder]

if you can't hit the boss in melee you can't finish anyway

[balmy condor]

so that's not happening

[low girder]

outside of snd, which does nothing until you get there

[vapid canopy]

Silly question here - but is Assa doing well in Shadowlands as far as dmg goes? I prefer assassin slightly over sub but don’t want to play it if it’s not doing well. What do you guys think?

[balmy condor]

sin is like

awful

[strange python]

finish at 4?

[vapid canopy]

Awh 😦 that’s to bad. Thanks for the answer @balmy condor

[balmy condor]

4cp

[low girder]

4+ normally, 5+ with deeper, yeah

[strange python]

ahh not not worth the energy expenditure for the extra dmg?

[low girder]

you're wasting CPs

mut gives a minimum of 2

and PK does zero dmg

[strange python]

k just read a guide saying it gave energy back and to keep it up

but that guy also said some other crazy stuff

he had me practice a 7 combo trying to get it in 3seconds

[low girder]

yeah idk where he's coming from with that lol

[strange python]

i did that shit for like an hour a day on the bags for like a week

haha fuck

[low girder]

the exception is the opener, which idk, did you guys ever hash that out whispyr

which one is optimal

[marble minnow]

are u guys running crimson tempest for assas in dungeons, also whats best dungeon spec for rogues atm?

[balmy condor]

you would run ct in dungeons, yes

but sin is legit awful atm

[dawn merlin]

Outlaw (AoE) >= Sub (prio damage) in dungeons

Not sin

And you are fine

[balmy condor]

sub/outlaw are both viable yeah

[marble minnow]

sins bad because of lack of haste right? i noticed i out damage subs in single target boss fights

[balmy condor]

sins bad because its undertuned to hell

[dawn merlin]

It's simply undertuned, and you really shouldnt be

[marble minnow]

and if the mobs stay alive long enough i out damage in that as well

[balmy condor]

that also shouldn't happen

sin is 15% behind in st and over 30% in aoe

[dawn merlin]

Assuming equal skill, sub wins in pretty much every scenario

[marble minnow]

ye its just random heroics so i cant tell

interesting, figured, i think im going to keep trying out assas tho, have they tried it at max gear for m0? its still the worst out of the 3?

[balmy condor]

its the worst at any gear level

15/30% is not something that gear fixes

when soulbinds, legendaries, and conduits combined are only ~15%

[marble minnow]

ok, thanks, ill prob swap to sub, is tht what u run?

[balmy condor]

ye

I can't stand outlaw

[marble minnow]

same i hate it

[summer marten]

interesting, garrote now silences when used with sepsis buff... guess all i needed was get some sleep for it to start working

[marble minnow]

stat prio for sub? crit>haste haste>crit or crit=haste?

[balmy condor]

vers crit

[marble minnow]

vers> crit?

[balmy condor]

yes

[marble minnow]

ok

[magic thorn]

So why is it stated in the pins to go kyrian and on wowhead it says night fae?

[balmy condor]

because kyrian is slightly better early, and night fae is better with more renown

[magic thorn]

Ach ok k

[real bay]

man I tried to like outlaw but just can't,, sub is da wae

[marble minnow]

so i chose venthyr campaign, is it too late too switch to another so i can optimally run sub

[balmy condor]

they're all optimal

but you can change to a covenant for the first time without any repercussions

just have to do the story for them instead

[marble minnow]

ahh ok, ill just stay with this one then appreciate the tips, i was running assass this whole time lmfao no one told me xD

[uncut schooner]

but whisp

i need to know

[sudden sluice]

man I'm thinking about switching to sub for this xpac

but I've only played since 8.3 and I only know law and sin from mythic raiding/keys

I need someone to push me to do it before I gear a bad class lol

spec*

[royal lantern]

while other people will tell you that sub is some book with 7 sigils

it really isnt

if you are used too assassination, you can play sub after 10min of hitting a dummy,the gameplay is really simmelar just with different ability names tbh

[vestal matrix]

How is assa doing right now in m+ compared to sub/outlaw?

[brisk moss]

pretty bad

[sudden sluice]

I'm mostly worried about mythic raids

[vestal matrix]

also bad in raids?

[sudden sluice]

I really love sin and I'm very familiar with law but I'm guessing I'll end up pidgeonholed into playing sub

[sweet pecan]

tbh

the class with the 2 ass will always have a raid pass

[sudden sluice]

[wide willow]

might be a stupid question but I have hard time understanding why Reverberation is our best MM+ conduit in the pinned message

[frosty kettle]

what spec should i be using for pve (lvling/dungeons) assa or sub? (refuse to play outlaw :D)

[charred wind]

sub

[bold folio]

jeeeesus why does it feel like i hit everything with a wet noodle and i am constantly at 0 energy

[grim hornet]

Same bro... gotta progress fast 😦

[sick scarab]

i think because it assume you are kiryan covenant

[wide willow]

well sure but even if I am, I don't really understand why it is better in AoE case when it's just a ST bonus

or I understood the conduit wrong

[hollow barn]

!guide

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide

[fast pond]

can you cloak the monk stuff

touch of death or whatever

[shadow tulip]

Death no, karma yes.

[shadow tulip]

Level scaling. Low stats, especially haste. Had 6% hast on 59. Felt like a snail.

[true stag]

!guide

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide

[nocturne orchid]

energy regen is tied to haste

iirc

[safe acorn]

waht talents am i supposed ot be using rn?

and waht cov am i supposed to join

[shadow tulip]

W/e you feel comfortable with for covenant

[stable copper]

Yeah, isn't all covenant more less equal?

[shadow tulip]

Though, night fae has 2nd potency unlocked week 4

[safe acorn]

and for talents because rn im using 2222231

[lime lintel]

What stats are prio for sin pvp other than ofcourse versatility?

[shadow tulip]

Idk for pvp, but pretty much haste...

[safe acorn]

prob mastery then crit

for pve is it still haste, msat, crit?

[lime lintel]

crit haste for PvE it seems

idk though

i'm only really into pvp

[gritty solstice]

Is sin rogue any good in M+ anymore

i havent played since shrouded suffocation

[uncut schooner]

Consensus overall I think is that assa just feels bad.

[tropic ocean]

feel? maybe yes maybe no

is it worse, yes

[primal zinc]

where does zoldyck drops?

[balmy condor]

Torghast

[uncut schooner]

👀

whisp

[foggy socket]

for single target is it rupture then snd then rotation or snd then rupture then rotation

rupture first right?

[atomic creek]

How good is assassination right now?

[fleet whale]

There isn't really a noticeble difference if you SND or rupture first

i think SND first might be better... by smallest margins of dps to near irrelevance

[balmy condor]

Trash

Snd first is better, almost a percent for kyrian, less so for night fae

Small ass margin indeed though

[atomic creek]

So you'd say Outlaw or Sub are better choices?

[drifting cloud]

yes and its not even close atm

[atomic creek]

Aight, switching to Outlaw when I get weapons then

[strange python]

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Fuus Shadowlands evaluation Spreadsheet: http://tiny.cc/uxr1tz

[umbral rapids]

That bad?

[tidal gorge]

From de current fuu spreadsheet ^ yes, it's pretty bad 😦

[uneven summit]

Is it worth buying darkmoon trinket

[low girder]

On day 2? No

[uneven summit]

i mean its like 70k

[low girder]

And it'll be a lot less by Tuesday

No reason to buy anything rn

Wait til you get your drops

[uneven summit]

but is it good for us

[low girder]

it's pretty strong, yeah

[uneven summit]

!bis

[low girder]

https://www.herodamage.com/rogue/trinkets/1t-pr-assassination

[obtuse robin]

i might be missing it but is there a talent guide for leveling somehwere

[balmy condor]

leveling guides don't really exist

because you just pick whatever and kinda power through in 10-15 hours and then thats that

[tender creek]

!stats

[prisma monolith]

**Shadowlands: ** Haste > Versatility => Critical Strike => Mastery

[balmy condor]

it's like top 5, but there's dungeon trinkets that easily beat it

[nocturne orchid]

they bumped up the chance for poison bomb?

[balmy condor]

no

[nocturne orchid]

CT it is then lol

[nimble tartan]

im all crit vers fuck da haste!!

oops wrong channel

[balmy condor]

CT for extended aoe, like higher m+, yeah

[next solar]

can anyone confirm or deny if the drop chances for the lego parts are different per difficulty?

[balmy condor]

they're 100% drops I think

[pseudo hamlet]

I didn't play BETA and I did read the Kyrian ability totally bad... I thought that I'd have these Anima Charged thing EVERY finisher for every 45s(I mean I'd have to have ideal number of CPs each finisher)

[balmy condor]

ye no just the next that lands on that cp XD

[pseudo hamlet]

And now I am wondering... it's jut like 40% stronger finisher once in 45s, it's not like a BIG DPS boost

[balmy condor]

much less than 40% stronger

the main damage comes from casting the ability itself, not the combo point

the animacharged combo point is basically just a couple free cp

not some omega big dick finisher

[pseudo hamlet]

Exactly, that's actually nice

[balmy condor]

probably ~15% stronger finisher

maybe 25-30% compared to a 5cp

[pseudo hamlet]

Even better

considering that the differences are so miniscule I think that I'd go with the Night Fae, it's "just" one abilit being used every 1/1,5min

[balmy condor]

yeah I went kyrian because I love the ability and the owl and shit

but then I switched to night fae because I'm playing sub in dungeons

and hitting the animacharge cp is fucking impossible

I love kyrian on sin though

[valid bridge]

is assassination doing good dps or is it getting beat by sub and outlaw?

[balmy condor]

its getting stomped

[valid bridge]

damn

[balmy condor]

this is probably the weakest a rogue spec has been

for a very very long time

definitely wasn't this bad in bfa, neither in legion, I don't think in wod either

[valid bridge]

thats unfortunate

[fleet whale]

yeah i got sick of it, so now i'm outlaw

and yeah, even in wod when assassin was known to be the lesser of the rogue specs

it did excel in its niche

right now in SL, it excels at nothing

[urban marsh]

I think theres a bug on Venemous wond regen

Something is not right

A full garrote is giving 6x 7 energy

afaik garrote and rupture proc'd venomous wounds every 2 secs

and now its 3 secs

[balmy condor]

not bugged

[plain jewel]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination WA's:
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)

[balmy condor]

2 seconds, hasted

seems to be working

[fleet whale]

it prolly just feels off

cause of how low haste is now

[balmy condor]

yep

that's my guess too

[urban marsh]

Hmm, i was looking at details, my mistake was to be energy capped

mb

[balmy condor]

yeah, details probably isn't the place to be looking for that sort of thing :P

would go straight to logs

[frosty kettle]

which rogue spec would you guys recommend to a new rogue player to get into eveything?

[balmy condor]

I personally would say outlaw or sin

most likely sin

outlaw has a ton of buttons

but with how bad sin is right now, would switch off real quick XD

[frosty kettle]

ive tried sin and sub so far (dont like the theme of outlaw at all) and sub is kinda confusing me 😄

[balmy condor]

yeah, that'll happen

[frosty kettle]

oh ok maybe ill just try and learn sub then ^^

[balmy condor]

you're in good company to not like outlaw though

[next solar]

Do we know if normal dungeons droprate for the legeendary memory is lower compared to heroic/mythic?

[balmy condor]

its the same

[pseudo hamlet]

Do every spec have the same conduits from the covenant?

[next solar]

dope

[balmy condor]

you mean the ones you start with when the quest tells you to slot your first soulbind?

[pseudo hamlet]

Yeah, I meant soulbinds

[balmy condor]

well each covenant has its own 3 soulbinds

the conduits you get from that quest at the start are the same generics + the covenant conduit

[pseudo hamlet]

Oh okay, nice then 🙂

[gentle locust]

anyone tried night fae / korayn soulbind ? with leggo that would bee 10% more damage 100-75% and then in execute

[balmy condor]

its fine

there's nothing that's much stronger than anything else

[strange python]

but if it's not ahead it's dead!

[cold rampart]

!rotation

[balmy condor]

you're looking for this

!guide

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide

[cold rampart]

wow or iv

[balmy condor]

its the same information

[cold rampart]

k thx

[warm olive]

with sin getting stomped, do you mean in all aspects of the game? mythic dungeons as well?

[balmy condor]

especially dungeons

you can probably raid with sin and do good enough (even though its still REALLY far behind sub/law)

but if you pick sin in m+ you're probably trolling

[fleet whale]

so the very first WQ emissary thing i ever did

gave me a sword for a reward, lol

it's like even blizz is telling me

don't go sin lol

[leaden anchor]

why is kyrian recommended?

night fae looks completly op

[balmy condor]

because its very slightly better early on

they're within like 2-3% of each other

there isn't an op one, or a weak one

[dense cedar]

Enjoying the expac so far? @balmy condor

[balmy condor]

yeah it's pretty good

[cold rampart]

which one?

[vernal walrus]

someone know a macro to use backstab with blindside talent but without backstab in the no stealth bar?

[pulsar zealot]

You mean ambush? And why not just have ambush on your bar? Sin has like 7 buttons

[vernal walrus]

yes soz

i mean ambush

[dense cedar]

@cold rampart Wild Hunt has the best mount

[willow saddle]

!guide

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide

[balmy condor]

#assassination message

Only doable with gnome sequencer, base game does not support macro interaction like that

[mellow quail]

Is assassination better than subtlely in general?

[nocturne orchid]

no

i mean

[mental laurel]

It's more forgiving than sub but worse

[balmy condor]

Assassination is worse than sub in every single measure

[nocturne orchid]

if you like comfy dot stacking

[balmy condor]

By a lot

[nocturne orchid]

then you'll like sin

[fleet whale]

assassination in its current state

is worse than post nerf bfa sub lol

[balmy condor]

It’s the most undertuned a rogue spec has been

In like

Easily 8 years

[fleet whale]

since cata maybe

[mental laurel]

Necrosin is even more dotty than it ever was

[fleet whale]

when all three specs were kind of low in the first cata tier

[buoyant quest]

that's why i'm playing it. this underperforming, it'll have to get buffed come raid week

[fleet whale]

will it be buffed enough though

[buoyant quest]

too much probably

[balmy condor]

We can hope

[fleet whale]

even a 10% buff

[buoyant quest]

that's what i'm thinking

[fleet whale]

puts it still behind sub

and likely outlaw too

[balmy condor]

10% probably not enough

Might be good enough for raids

But would still be unplayable in m+ most likely

[mellow quail]

hmmm

Thanks

[fleet whale]

leeching poison is nice in open world

about the only positive i can find for sin atm lol

[mental laurel]

I did find leeching to be really nice in BFA. Have you tried it in Torghast? I've only done Torghast as sub so far and while Soothing Darkness feels really good when Shadow Dance is up, you feel really terrible when dance is down.

It is a nice self-heal between packs though which Leeching can't provide

[fleet whale]

ok when i just did a quick sim on raidbots just to see some things

it didn't use flag at all

[balmy condor]

But the question is

Would you take leeching over soothing

Cause imo soothing is much nicer

[fleet whale]

i just want recuperator

cause as outlaw yes i can kill things

but my self heals are low

[balmy condor]

It’s gotta suck at something

[fleet whale]

blizz gave me swords so i don't really have a choice, i have found this SL iteration of outlaw fun though

still have to get used to it

[mental laurel]

I mean in BFA I loved Leeching. I did enough damage that I was pretty much unkillable in solo. But I haven't given it a shot yet. I do quite enjoy soothing in the open world though.

[vernal walrus]

@balmy condor thx

[topaz latch]

Is there some kind of bug with assa which makes me able to use stealth abilities while not in stealth, it pops randomly during combat. I didn't vanish so it's not subterfuge

[balmy condor]

that's a talent called blindside

[topaz latch]

I have elaborate planing and it's not only ambush, i could cast cheap shot

[balmy condor]

are you using sepsis

[topaz latch]

Omg you are right, thx

It was driving me crazy

[balmy condor]

:P

happens

[real bay]

what would it take to make sin great again, aura buff with echoing blades added on fok? never thought I'd miss something from bfa

lmao

[balmy condor]

lot of stuff they could do

I don't think they're bringing back something big

so Imo, the best outcome would be like a 5-10% aura buff with a rupture/fok/garrote buff

a 10% aura buff would be enough to make it viable in raids most likely

m+ needs some more love than that

[fathom echo]

anyone feel assass feels like poop atm

[balmy condor]

damage wise? I think 95% of the discord would agree with you

just feel wise? dunno

feels fine to me

but there's a lot of people hating on snd

and I'm a weirdo who loves snd

[fathom echo]

yeah the ability tracking atm with rogues seems overkill

is garrote duration also less now

[balmy condor]

nop

only change sin got is shiv takes the place of tb, and we gain snd

everything else is the same

[fathom echo]

yeah spending CP on SnD feels like im doing less damage by not spending on rupts and env

[balmy condor]

yep, a common complaint

[fathom echo]

been switching from outlaw to assass hows sub is it still top tier

[balmy condor]

sub is better single target, worse cleave than outlaw

you can make an argument for either spec being the best atm

[fathom echo]

yeah dunno what to play atm

[distant sable]

The info from Sept still hold - Kyrian still the overall way to go?

[balmy condor]

they're all within 3%, play whatever you want

they'll each be slightly better or worse depending on niche

in terms of every last dps, kyrian is better now, and then with more renown, night fae will take over

[distant sable]

Thx

[iron spruce]

Hey is it my imagintion ro did Blizz

nerf the hell out of us in SL ?

[balmy condor]

well

sin was just as undertuned in beta

so can't say its surprising

but yes

sin is the weakest rogue spec

that's why this channel is dead

[rich spindle]

hi guys

is there any decent assa rogue's guide?

for the basics, like building and gearing

[iron spruce]

yes. So its like I finished my rogue and im like...im with th Fae cause of the benefits..but now waht do i do

its like I am not sure what the best spec is at the moment. Should I just go to an alt or something for the time being till its fixeD?

[quaint dragon]

!stats

[prisma monolith]

**Shadowlands: ** Haste > Versatility => Critical Strike => Mastery

[balmy condor]

!guide

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide

[balmy condor]

Sub and outlaw are both very good

[iron spruce]

oh

[languid totem]

Is Improved poisons bugged? level 59 and I'm noticing poisons aren't always immediately applied from ambush.

[balmy condor]

Has been bugged forever on beta

Don’t think it got fixed

[iron spruce]

currently i have no swords just daggers so COmbat would be Number 2 in specs experience

God I was hoping sin would be good based on what I was hearing. I havent changed specs in several years

[balmy condor]

ye it's been bad since it hit beta and all the borrowed power disappeared

[iron spruce]

So are you still rocking it ? or na

[balmy condor]

I'm going to play it in raids unless I get stomped

but in m+ no way

if it gets buffed a decent amount, I'll reconsider

but its so far behind right now

[iron spruce]

i see

i might just switch up to Combat after this Torghast run

just pisses me off

[balmy condor]

yeah I hate outlaw

so its sub life for me

[iron spruce]

i remember it in legion

it was such a timing issue i got tired of it

is it still the same?

[balmy condor]

dfa is gone

so less so

but the base gameplay from legion is still there, yes

[iron spruce]

alrighty

thanks

[balmy condor]

my pleasure

[iron spruce]

Blizz gotta stop nerfing the class overall

since Cata its been a slow downhill

[balmy condor]

bfa was pretty good to outlaw and sin

legion wasn't bad either

especially ToS

tons of rogues there

[iron spruce]

yes but dps wise i mean it was okay

[sour bolt]

how bad would it be to go venthyr for assa

?

[balmy condor]

would be perfectly fine

there are no bad choices for covenants

[sour bolt]

well it kinda is

[balmy condor]

why

[sour bolt]

something is usually better

i wanna play high end

[balmy condor]

then you won't play sin

[sour bolt]

push 20+keys etc, mythic raid

is it just sub=

?

[balmy condor]

its anything

other than sin

[sour bolt]

oh is sin that bad?

[balmy condor]

yes

15% single target, 30% in aoe

[sour bolt]

well might ttry outlaw or sub then

[balmy condor]

covenant choices are very close for sub as well

sub is within 1.5% for all of them

each covenant will have its moment where its better

[sour bolt]

cuz i really wanna find class that plays vethur

venthyr

[balmy condor]

then play venthyr if you want

[sour bolt]

its just gonna be an alt, but mainly for m+

[balmy condor]

then play venthyr if you want

[grim canopy]

Why would they launch asssasin like this

[shut garnet]

cuz usually if assa is within 1% of sub youd just take assa

sub really sucks with 2T

and sin is pretty nuts at 2T

n more often than not you get some sort of secondary target in raid

(also sub sucked for basically a whole expac and i guess they wanted it to have the spotlight for once)

[fleet whale]

there is a big difference between being just 1% behind and 15% behind

there are also things sub has with it's profile that could make it more appealing than sin depending on the raid fight

even if they were that close

[restive spire]

are auto attacks doing like upto 30% of the damage for anyone else

lol this feels horrid to play

[fleet whale]

i think assassin actually has higher aa percent than outlaw lol

[shut garnet]

just snd things

u could always do a quicksim and compare % to make sure ur not like massively doing stuff wrong

if you're unsure

[buoyant gulch]

!stats

[prisma monolith]

**Shadowlands: ** Haste > Versatility => Critical Strike => Mastery

[restive spire]

ty blozzard

i think its a combo of losing traits like shrouded suffocation and twist the knife and then snd being a thing

now the spec is an open and go make toast kinda thing

might switch over to sub for the first time in 5 years

[fleet whale]

i swapped to outlaw

it shows how bad assassination's kit is atm for dungeon content

[restive spire]

i dont really like the new roll the bones

[fleet whale]

idk i kind of like it

then again i haven't played outlaw seriously since ike

early legion

[restive spire]

it def is more friendly old roll the bones was kinda counter intuitive just waiting for a good one

but needing to decide if it was worth to roll again was kinda cool imo

[fleet whale]

idk, i didn't really find buff fishing to be that fun, so i prefer it being a mini cd

and stuff like BTE and SND makes outlaw involved enough, for me anyway

[restive spire]

snd really feels like it should be a just outlaw thing

i was low key happy when they deleted it

[fleet whale]

at the very least bring back cut to the chase

[restive spire]

i was so sad when kingsbane got removed

one of my favorite abilities theyve ever made

[sour citrus]

guys, Did I read the thread correct? opening is Gar - SnD - Amb or Mut - Rup - Vend?

[jagged axle]

i also ultimately decided on outlaw

i've been playing assassination consistently since like end of mop

sub is kool in instances but outside of that general content is a slog

[restive spire]

i guess assa had it coming but this feels way way worse than just being under tuned

[jagged axle]

is it due to lack of attention

i wonder

[restive spire]

idk they probably didnt care to add anything to its gameplay cause it was strong

but then again destro locks were right there with us and those are fine still

[raw rune]

its just insanely slow

cause we have zero haste

so no energy

[main forge]

well they added shit to assassination and didn't balance around it... especially since it was pretty trash even in gear in Ny'alotha... until we could get targeted corruption

[restive spire]

energy feels fine actually to me

its just whatever you can spend it on doesnt do anything

[main forge]

Melee hits being 20-30% of your damage.....

[restive spire]

more

cause of deadly venom

[raw rune]

thats always going to be a side effect of snd tho

[restive spire]

it ends up being almost 50% with the deadly poison added damage lmfao

[main forge]

I don't even get SnD up sometimes because i hate it... would be at least fine if it refreshed the duration

by rupturing or envenoming or had a talent for that

or had some sort of synergy or interaction with other abilities

[raw rune]

ye aight ill agree

[storm forum]

you mean like sub's premed?

[raw rune]

its scuffed

[restive spire]

needing to snd then rupture then finally being able to envenom feels bad

[raw rune]

^

agreed

[main forge]

its clunky as fuck, and I think most of us called that when they told us we were getting snd back

its like the shadow priest or warlock rotation that took 30 seconds to get rolling

[gray oriole]

can anyone tell me which covenant is best for sin arena

[balmy condor]

Should probably gar ambush snd mut rup vend, if you’re running with subt

[restive spire]

night fae @gray oriole

[gray oriole]

why so jw

[storm forum]

free cheap shot when they use their sepsis?

[restive spire]

yes

[balmy condor]

Ye it’s saucy

[storm forum]

theoretically you could get an 8 second kidney with kyrian

but like, is that really going to happen?

[restive spire]

yeah but its weird playing around the anima combo point

[gray oriole]

the redirected anima is nice too

also podtender gives you cheat death

[restive spire]

and sepsis is just a strong dot

[storm forum]

im real sad that sepsis doesn't empower garrote

[restive spire]

same i thought it would at first

[storm forum]

i just hit 60 and tested it on the dummy :/

last i played beta was back when it just auto-used a free vanish

i liked that version better

[fleet whale]

lol, a tier list someone made for dps specs in raiding for SL

actually put sin in B tier lmao

and outlaw in C tier

[storm forum]

how many stacked two target fights are there in nathria?

[restive spire]

id be surprised if theyre above the bottom 5 in reality

the only things ik that could beat this in bad are ferals and surv hunters

[storm forum]

cause unless that number is 4 or more, idk what that dude is smoking

[fleet whale]

he also has sin b tier in M+ lol

[storm forum]

M+ is going to make me miss SS so much