assassination

[marble hemlock]

kyrian opener

i was nf

already changes stuff cuz

[balmy condor]

yeah fuck night fae

[marble hemlock]

lower cp

[balmy condor]

:)

[marble hemlock]

fuck kyrian bro

can you rerun

with nf?

[balmy condor]

sure

[marble hemlock]

just to see if the 1cp seps makes a difference

[balmy condor]

whats the soulbind thingy

for nightfae

seomthing hunt or something

[marble hemlock]

soulbind="238:7/240:7/325066"```

[balmy condor]

thanks

[marble hemlock]

ngl

feels nice talking like this about a spec

then you dip a toe into outlaw or sub

and they just go "brrrr no rupture sub"

and you go back to assa

cause you have decent conversations

[balmy condor]

tbh Idk if that one line change will even be accurate enough

[marble hemlock]

i mean

the opening is all kinds of fucked

[balmy condor]

since the rest of the opener is garbage

[marble hemlock]

so its hard to say

how big of an impact itll ultimately be

as i said earlier

i dont wanna suggest an opener that might be mathematically superior by like 20dps

but plays like dog

[balmy condor]

fair

[marble hemlock]

i still remember uunat prog

with MA

fuck me that shit was dumb

[balmy condor]

much closer

0.12% gain

[marble hemlock]

literally 20%+ dps swings depending on your critrate

[balmy condor]

with a 0.09% margin

[marble hemlock]

[balmy condor]

big lul

[marble hemlock]

but yeah i mean

im happy for now

[balmy condor]

snd first on kyrian I guess

[marble hemlock]

gonna wait and see what the apl cleanup and changes brings

yeah makes sense

cause 2(3)cp snd

vs 1(2)

[balmy condor]

yeah

[marble hemlock]

makes a massive difference for the lineup for shiv

[marble hemlock]

and i personally dont see a 2sec delay for shiv as a big deal, if that means i get 3 envenoms into it vs having to refresh snd+rup during it

[balmy condor]

ya know, this isn't actually that awful

minus the shiv

and double snd

[marble hemlock]

ehhh

i wouldnt rely on that sample

simply due to the blindside proc on first mut

[balmy condor]

true

but replace it with a mut

and it doesn't actually look that trash

[fleet anchor]

Whispyr is gonna write me a new APL before tomorrow right?

[marble hemlock]

you wanna tell me

[fleet anchor]

Save me some time

[balmy condor]

@fleet anchor gotchu homie

[marble hemlock]

a 1cp snd into 4cp snd into 2cp rupture doesnt feel like trash? 🙂

[fleet anchor]

I gotta implement last-second Havoc hotfixes 🤣

[balmy condor]

I'm still learning though and 4/5 times it just breaks

[marble hemlock]

someone wanna update outlaw guide for me?

ive already been sitting here since 11am

[balmy condor]

puke

get that heresy out of this good channel

[marble hemlock]

i mean

once im done with outlaw

im actually finished

so thats cool

[balmy condor]

true

[marble hemlock]

but fuck me this was some nasty crunch

and then ill go to bed happy that im done with everything, and ill wake up to 3 more soulbind, conduit and covenant changes

and ill have to redo 500lines again

[balmy condor]

I'll fiddle with the night fae stuff and see what happens

[marble hemlock]

also, they broke a quest

in maldraxxus

with the changes last night

[balmy condor]

even though kyrian is better

objectively

[marble hemlock]

the one with the kyrian abomination

[balmy condor]

you can't argue that it's not

[marble hemlock]

so you cant continue leveling after that

[balmy condor]

because I say it is

[marble hemlock]

i think its pretty cool that a mandatory mainquest is broken 3days before release

[balmy condor]

I kinda want it to be broken on live

not cause it's good

but just to see the rage

I think it would be kinda funny

[marble hemlock]

well

would be fun but also infuriating

anyway

back to the grindstone

[balmy condor]

have a good one

[grizzled jay]

they already fixed that Seli

https://twitter.com/Shiekrunner/status/1329860460468899844

Shiekrunner WF60! (@Shiekrunner)

@WarcraftDevs @WatcherDev thanks for fixing the maldraxxus quest https://t.co/FRr7KAIwmi

Twitter · Nov 20, 2020, 6:53 PM

[marble hemlock]

k

do you have to reactivate flag yourself to gain the haste, or does it auto-proc after the 20sec run out? 🤔

never had the chance to run flag on beta

[balmy condor]

reactivate

[marble hemlock]

oh okay

if you dont use it yourself after20sec

it just dissipates and no buff?

[balmy condor]

I guess

[marble hemlock]

"you guess"?

i need cold hard facts sir!

[balmy condor]

I don't have beta

what do you want from me

I'm trying my best

oh

wait

I do

wasn't there on tuesday

imagine getting beta 4 days before and expac

[fleet whale]

are you gonna play it? lol

[balmy condor]

I mean

no

[fleet whale]

most you can do is just mess around on a template character at this point

i already uninstalled the beta to free up some space

[grizzled jay]

@marble hemlock No you gain the buff once the debuff falls off

[marble hemlock]

kk

so i got

fuck you whispyr

tisu said you dont gain buff

so

you guys all suck

[balmy condor]

to be fair

I wasn't sure about sucking

[cinder nymph]

does sepsis give empowered garrote?

[balmy condor]

no

it gives you the ability to cast a stealth ability, none of the combat benefits

[cinder nymph]

i see

[balmy condor]

in pve its basically an ambush

instead of a mut

(reminder that the sepsis ambush is not free though, free ambush comes from blindside)

[marble hemlock]

(reminder that having a blindside proc while sepsis procs will use up the blindside proc and sepsis proc at the same time)

[balmy condor]

night fae bad

[hardy crypt]

i just got back after a break of like 7 months

[balmy condor]

welcome back

[hardy crypt]

back then i just spammed haste + exsang build

what the fuck is going on with all the variables now

i already got the hang of covenant abilities

[balmy condor]

what variables

[hardy crypt]

but what are those conduits and something that looks like another talent tree?

and legends?

[balmy condor]

legendaries are back

[hardy crypt]

there's so much to sim now lol

[balmy condor]

yes

conduits are pretty much solved

conduits are like essences you slot into a tree

the tree is a soulbind

each covenant has 3 soulbinds

so that makes a lot of permutations

[hardy crypt]

well yeah, that's why i'm so confused lol

at least let's hope it will be better than azerites

[royal lantern]

It is

[hardy crypt]

it just feels really overwhelming

[royal lantern]

SL looks way better then bfa

[balmy condor]

its not that bad

and they're all very close

[royal lantern]

Simply because shit actually got tested lel

[hardy crypt]

so far it was basically azerites, talents, corruptions and that's it

and now it's like a ton of them

[balmy condor]

well no

[hardy crypt]

ohh okay

nvm then lol

[balmy condor]

basically you still got talents
corruptions gone, but you have to sim conduits
azerite gone, but you have to sim legendaries
essences gone, but you have to choose a covenant

since you can't change covenants more than once every 2 weeks

its not something you'll ever have to sim

[hardy crypt]

so the covenants are not gonna mean much? you can just choose depending on which one you like

[balmy condor]

they mean something

[hardy crypt]

phh that's cool

[balmy condor]

but they're all very close

[hardy crypt]

ah, okay

[royal lantern]

For rogue,its really

Chose anyone you want

[balmy condor]

conduits are the same across all soulbinds and covenants

[royal lantern]

They are all so close,it doesnt matter

[balmy condor]

so you really find the best two, and that's that

regardless of what you're playing

and otherwise its all choice

its really not that overwhelming once you get how the system works and how you're limited in choice

you're not talenting into different covenants for every boss and changing soulbinds and legendaries constantly

[hardy crypt]

ohh, that's relieving

cause I heard some of my friends complaining

for example about shadow priest

[balmy condor]

yeah other classes have some dead covenants

rogue is a-o-k

[hardy crypt]

that one covenant is op for raids and the other one is for mythic+

and there's like a huge gap between them

it's not like that for rogue? the kyrian ability seems really strong

[balmy condor]

no

kyrian isn't even the best

[hardy crypt]

ooh okay, nvm then 😄

[balmy condor]

but the bottom to the top covenant

is like

nothing

[royal lantern]

1, something %

[balmy condor]

yeah they're super close

[royal lantern]

They are all good for some.specific situations

[hardy crypt]

ohh okay

[royal lantern]

Like,you can take what ever you want, rogue got the jackpot there

[hardy crypt]

that's great, I was worried that I would kinda have to give up M+ damage for raids etc

like i had to with azerites and corruptions

[balmy condor]

you still kinda will

but its MUCH less

[hardy crypt]

yeah, that's what i hoped for

[balmy condor]

and you can have a second soulbind tree

for an off spec

and not lose much

[hardy crypt]

ohhh yeah

that's so nice, seems like it's much better

and legendaries, is it like back in legion?

one per spec and each has their ability?

or nah

[balmy condor]

yes

our legendaries are also basically copy paste legion

you can equip 1, there's generics, and spec specifics just like in legion

the acquisition is from crafting in torghast though

so you can target craft what you want

instead of just praying

[hardy crypt]

ohhh

okay

and torghast, what is it exactly? is it like visions?

[balmy condor]

more like a solo dungeon

you go floor by floor

[royal lantern]

Somewhat roguelike dungeon

[balmy condor]

kill everything, break chests and shit

[fleet whale]

torghast has very little in common with visions

[balmy condor]

yeah

its basically rougelike

at the end of it you got a bunch of random crazy buffs

makes you crazy strong

[hardy crypt]

and you do it to level up your legendary, correct?

[royal lantern]

Ye,you get the currency too craft/upgrade them there

[hardy crypt]

okay, makes sense

[balmy condor]

its also just fun

[hardy crypt]

ohh please tell me it's not this weekly bullshit like it was in visions

[fleet whale]

not really

[hardy crypt]

wow it actually seems like it;s gonna be a nice expansion lol

[balmy condor]

everything is basically capped

[royal lantern]

Even if people.dont like too hear it

Caps are good

Cus otherwhise people burn themself.out in 1-2weeks

[hardy crypt]

so the currency you can get is just limited weekly

or the runs?

[balmy condor]

currency

[hardy crypt]

ah, okay

[fleet whale]

tbh, the thing that i think is gonna bite blizz in the ass for SL, and the thing that a lot of players are gonna complain about

is loot being more limited

[hardy crypt]

it doesn't seem like a bad choice though

[fleet whale]

well remember the time leading up to cata

everyone was soooo hype for dungeons to be hard again

[royal lantern]

Eh,i think 3items in 20players is too harsh

[fleet whale]

cata releases

[royal lantern]

It should have been 4 imp

[fleet whale]

forums flooded with complaints

[hardy crypt]

holy shit 3?

[royal lantern]

But they can update that tbh

Yep

Mythic bosses drop 3items

[hardy crypt]

yeah that seems rough

[fleet whale]

and no bonus rolls

[royal lantern]

Like i said

Should have been 4

[hardy crypt]

how about mythic+/pvp

[balmy condor]

m+ is like 1-2 items from a key

[royal lantern]

Mythic on a 15key is 1item on average

2if you time it

[fleet whale]

i can see blizz backing off from this

if things get bad

[royal lantern]

Ye

Like

Its more easy too INCREASE the numbers

[fleet whale]

it is inevitable

[royal lantern]

Like

[fleet whale]

that complaints are going to be flooding

[hardy crypt]

hmm, but with both titanforge and corruptions gone

[royal lantern]

If they did 5items.for a mythic kill and day ts too much,nerfed too 3

It would be a INSANE outcry

[hardy crypt]

wouldn't be it too easy to gear up with such a generous loot?

[balmy condor]

well that's why they changed it

[royal lantern]

Instead of starting with 3and then going up if it is bad

Well yeha

It more or less will be

You got a mythic raid item=that slot is done for the rest of the patch

[fleet whale]

or, blizz could add back badge gear but apparently the devs hated badge gear

[hardy crypt]

hmm, i'm actually wondering how that will turn out

so, basically, you choose a covenant, which has 1 rogue ability and 1 general ability, then in this covenant you have something of a bonus mini talent tree

and then you also have the legendary

[balmy condor]

no

you choose a covenant

which has a covenant ability

and a tree, which gives you passive bonuses, and slots you can put conduits into

conduits are basically just like minor essences, but connected to your spec

you don't get another ability from them

[hardy crypt]

oh so covenant ability is kind of like a major essence and conduits are minor essences?

[royal lantern]

More or less yeha

[balmy condor]

you're locked into the ability

but yeah

you can't change ability

[hardy crypt]

wait, how about the servant guy from kyrians f.e.

[balmy condor]

you have to change the entire covenant

pelagos?

he's a soulbind

[hardy crypt]

don't you get that on all the classes?

[balmy condor]

yes

[hardy crypt]

and teleport for the vampire guys

[balmy condor]

every kyrian player will have pelagos available as a soulbind

[hardy crypt]

etc etc

[balmy condor]

the teleport from venthyr is just flavor

won't have any real use tbh

night fae gets to transform and run fast

also basically flavor

[hardy crypt]

will the covenants have different trees/conduits?

[balmy condor]

each covenant has 3 trees

3 soulbinds

[hardy crypt]

ah, okay

[balmy condor]

the conduits are the same

those are spec specific

and class specific

[hardy crypt]

okay

[balmy condor]

you slot them into the soulbind tree

[hardy crypt]

so wait

this

does it show the trees you speak about?

[balmy condor]

that's all the soulbinds, yes

that's all 12 soulbinds that will be in the game

and the best pathing for each

it even has the conduits already slotted in as well

small picture so its hard to tell

but pelagos for example, that first row of 3 slots, the left one is filled

that's a conduit

then its a second row, which is all passives

a slot which is defensive conduit

and then a row of 2 passives

the next is another potency conduit, that's the one that does damage and matters

a row of 2, either a utility conduit, or a defensive conduit, your choice

and then the cap passive of the tree

[hardy crypt]

ohh okay

[balmy condor]

X slots are potency, damage
the shield slots are defensive conduits, healing from snd for example
the lightning bolts are utility, shadowstep cooldown for example

the rest all are random passive effects, and most of them are just flavor like "this random shield you get in open world also gives you move speed"

or "reduces the cooldown of this one flavor skill by a bit"

nothing that will actually affect your output in content

the choice of "whats the best soulbind" comes down to basically 1-2 passives, which you either unlock at the start of the tree, or the end of the tree

and give you random stats and stuff

each tree has 2 potency slots, so the conduits are the same, but the pathing to some is weird

like heirmir for necrolord, his potency slot goes into a bad passive

so its actually better to take the good passive and skip the potency

which then makes him kinda not great

[hardy crypt]

so every covenant has 3 different soulbinds and you have to choose a one of them

[balmy condor]

no you have them all available

[hardy crypt]

and then you have to choose a path in it

[balmy condor]

you can have a soulbind for sin, outlaw, sub for example

or you can do a soulbind for sin in raid, and sin in m+, and sin in pvp

or you can do one soulbind and never change it

up to you

[hardy crypt]

ummm

[balmy condor]

but you will have to choose a path and equip one of them

[hardy crypt]

so pelagos kleia and mikanikos in kyrian, for example

[balmy condor]

yeah

[hardy crypt]

in each of them i have to choose a path

[balmy condor]

yes

[hardy crypt]

which consists of defensive, offensive, and some other weird, not really important bonuses

[balmy condor]

yeah

[hardy crypt]

okay, yay, got it so far

so if there are those 3 different trees, let's call them

[royal lantern]

It sounds more complicated then it is

Trust me

[hardy crypt]

pelagos, kleia and mikanikos

[balmy condor]

yeah seriously

I sound like a maniac trying to explain it lmao

[hardy crypt]

is it like item sets? that you can just switch between them all the time but you can profit only from one of them at a time?

[balmy condor]

you can switch them at your covenant place I believe

but you only have 1

yes

you can't just randomly change with a tome as far as I'm aware

[hardy crypt]

and you don't have to pay or anything, like with azerite traits?

[balmy condor]

nope

[hardy crypt]

thank god

[balmy condor]

there is one thing though

which is kinda questionable how impactful it'll be

[hardy crypt]

oh no

[balmy condor]

you can't change the conduits without an energy resource

and it refreshes once a day or something

but the odds that you're changing conduits is not really that high

[hardy crypt]

ohh so for an example, if i have a conduit set exactly for raids

[balmy condor]

you can't change it to m+ and then back to raids and back to m+ over and over and over

[hardy crypt]

and after i end the raid, i can't switch back to m+ conduit?

okay

[balmy condor]

you can change back

[hardy crypt]

but only once a day?

[balmy condor]

but you can't just switch back and forth over and over

it caps at like 10 energy or something

[hardy crypt]

ahh, okay

[balmy condor]

so you get 1 energy a day, or 1 conduit swap

[hardy crypt]

ahhh that makes sense

[balmy condor]

so if you raid tues/thurs for example, you can have your raid tree, do m+ on wednesday, then switch to raid on thurs, switch back for m+ the rest of the week

and it should be okay

[hardy crypt]

it seems kind of like azerite reforging, but much less punishing

at least let's hope so

[balmy condor]

but you also have the 2 other trees

[hardy crypt]

ahh right

[balmy condor]

so you can just have a raid tree

and after raid, run over, change your tree

and then do m+

and that won't cost you any energy or anything

[hardy crypt]

so to compare it to azerite reforging, it's like you could have 3 different presets of azerite traits that you can switch all the time

but to modify a preset, you have to pay with the essence

energy*

[balmy condor]

its like having 3 gear sets of azerite, but to reforge the traits you have to pay in the magically daily energy

[hardy crypt]

okay, that makes sense

[balmy condor]

but the "traits", or the conduits

have much less impact than the traits on azerite

you're not getting into a SS/EB situation where without them all of a sudden its unplayable

[hardy crypt]

ohh so it's not gonna be such a big change if you play m+ with your raid conduits

[balmy condor]

they're a lot more broad and less punishing than that

[hardy crypt]

?

[balmy condor]

yeah

[hardy crypt]

hell yeah

[balmy condor]

there's an aoe conduit for sin, but it's not that great

[hardy crypt]

it just seems like they listened to all the things people hated about bfa

[balmy condor]

you'll probably take it

but its not like EB where you're fucked without it

[hardy crypt]

and just changed them for better, wow

[hardy crypt]

yeah that's one of the reasons i left 7 months ago hahah

i was trying to switch from outlaw to sin on m+

my raid build was great but i couldn't get any echoing blades

[balmy condor]

yeah, on top of that, you unlock conduits like you did essences

so there's no rng of like a vendor or something

like with EB

well, you kinda unlock them like essences

its more like drops you can farm

but that's semantics

[hardy crypt]

yeah yeah i get it, seems much more nicer

i think i may be getting the hang of it thanks to you

thank you a lot dude XD

[balmy condor]

no problem

[hardy crypt]

you spent a whole lot of time trying to inform my dumb ass about all the changes, i appreciate that

[balmy condor]

I live here

[hardy crypt]

i'll try to catch up on the talents changes myself, i only heard that slice and dice is coming to all the specs

which is kind of scary

[balmy condor]

you come into my house and ask me question I'll make you a cup of tea for sure

[outer lodge]

[grizzled jay]

or you @ me cause you didn't have beta until today

[balmy condor]

thank god I have beta now

imagine all the testing I can do

thanks blizzard

[grizzled jay]

lol

[fair rain]

[mental laurel]

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Fuus Shadowlands evaluation Spreadsheet: http://tiny.cc/uxr1tz

[dusk lodge]

!statS

[prisma monolith]

Pre patch: Versatility > Critical Strike > Mastery > Haste
**Shadowlands: ** Haste > Versatility => Critical Strike => Mastery

[dark token]

anyone have a good ambush/mut macro?

especially looking for nonstealth ambush (e.g. from blindside)

[balmy condor]

only way to do it is through gnomesequencer

#assassination message

that's what you're looking for

[dark token]

thanks

[pulsar flare]

Which covenant ability is well rounded for some aoe an single target?

[balmy condor]

that's not really an easy question to answer. Ability wise, night fae is only single target, and nothing else, where as kyrian you could spend the animacharge on a CT, necro has inherent cleave through multidotting, and venthyr gives stats, which obviously helps in general

but that's not really how you can look at it, because a lot of the power comes from soulbinds as well

which is why you see night fae up higher in dungeon slice

my personal opinion is that kyrian is the safe option for being "well rounded"

but they're all close enough to where you can make your own decision based on your preferences and probably be okay

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide

[reef oak]

!sims

[prisma monolith]

Simulations:
Herodamage: https://www.herodamage.com/rogue/
Bloodmallet: https://bloodmallet.com/index.html

[balmy condor]

@reef oak youre probably looking for this instead, has more targeted sims

[prisma monolith]

Fuus Shadowlands evaluation Spreadsheet: http://tiny.cc/uxr1tz

[balmy condor]

!fuu

[reef oak]

thanks

[glacial haven]

Stats for pvp?

[balmy condor]

Not sure yet

Check back with the #pvp nerds

[olive latch]

ugh been away why is night fae are top one

<.<

[slender berry]

its equal to venthyr and only a tiny bit ahead of the others

if you dont like it you dont have to pick it

[pulsar flare]

tanks for help

[primal zinc]

rip subs rogue

pelagos or pelaGONE!!!

rise of the sins is back

[woeful oxide]

Hello guys,
I m new here and i want to be a new rogue main.
I m not really good in english so read a lot of chat is really hard to me.
My questions are :
-What about rogue actually for mm+ content ?
(I actually see a lot of différents informations across the net)
-were are we about legendaries and convenant ?
I've saw that assa was a lot behind others rogues.
Coule you light me up plz ? ❤

[jaunty cedar]

Hey! So for M+ outlaw is good because of shroud and overall damage. But melee are not really great in M+. I think outlaw rogue is still very good (maybe the best melee dps to bring). FOr leg and covenants check the pins ^^. And yes assa is about 15% behind sub currently

btw are you french?

[woeful oxide]

Yes 😂

[jaunty cedar]

I'll pm you i'm also french

[woeful oxide]

Thx 😊

[grim jay]

im feeling like kyrian is the safe bet aswell, just kinda annoying if I wanna run sub in m+ since nf still prolly higher

pretty hard to get one for both specs somehow

[minor thicket]

@balmy condor when you say CT above what’s that acronym.

[pulsar flare]

crimson tempest

[minor thicket]

Gotcha but you don’t have to use CT right that was just an example

[royal lantern]

all

rogue specs covenants

are so close

it litearlly doesnt matter wich covenant you chose

they all are good

[dry atlas]

If you don't take CT for m+ you're trolling

[royal lantern]

except the long as hell time where CT was not even that good for m+?

[dry atlas]

I didn't say past tense

[pulsar flare]

does sepsis subterfuge or master assasin?

[slender berry]

No

[strange python]

has anyone tried a crit/ambush build with the prepatch changes yet?

[worldly orbit]

so is a sin opening still garrote > garrote > rupture

then into snd

or garrote > rupture/snd > garrote > rupture/snd

[outer lodge]

Any downside to using this as a mut/ambush spammable? Is it just as fast?

[vestal wren]

downside is that you partly need to press the button multiple times

[sweet pecan]

sniff

i smell the french

[shut garnet]

does garroting from sepsis empower it

[shadow tulip]

No

[shut garnet]

[shadow tulip]

Just a free ambush

[shut garnet]

sad

[shadow tulip]

Dot hits hard tho

[grim jay]

still unsure if I wanna go with NF or kyrian considering I play sub and sin

[nocturne orchid]

I'm still torn between necrolord and venthyr

[shadow tulip]

I'd grudgingly go necro if it was op, but never ventyr, hate them

Either angels os AYAYA for me

[nocturne orchid]

I mean it's an extra dot

That's why I was considering it, venthyr also sounds like a good idea

[grim jay]

venthyr looks decent aswell

I personally hate necro

with passion

I'm a guy that likes burst and/or big hits, necro is neither

[halcyon oak]

I like the venthyr aesthetic but the ability seems kind of annoying to use, but I'll see how it feels

[grim jay]

venthyr isnt that much aswell, but its fairly decent in burst window

[halcyon oak]

I like all the aesthetics tbh except for necro really

[nocturne orchid]

Well I'm more of a damage consistency dude

[grim jay]

I kinda liked the earlier iteration without the 1.5 min CD on venthyr more. seemed better to use

[halcyon oak]

I think either bonespike or the kyrian ability will be the most fun to use

[lament dove]

that's why I'm going necro, although what do I do with fleshcraft:\ soulshape would be awesome QoL

[grim jay]

ye soulshape is pretty nice. I don't like sepsis being cleansable in pvp tho.

and kinda worried since NF is clearly overperforming

that it might get nerfed

[halcyon oak]

Yeah I like soulshape but sepsis seems weird with the restealth

I assume it resets combat

[strange python]

wait wouldn't you just bait cleanse

then hit them with sepsis

seems like they are always cleansing my dots anyways

[dry atlas]

sepsis doesnt put you in stealth

it works like dance for 1 ability use

[halcyon oak]

Oh okay

[strange python]

oh 8 second cooldown on purify damn

[grim jay]

you would most likely not end up getting full value

except if you have a flawless CC chain

tho you might sometimes wanna use it just to pressure with a full cc setup

and there it could get cleansed

[strange python]

do other healers have longer purify cooldowns?

nope looks like 8 secs is pretty close to standard

[grim jay]

you even have dds that can cleanse it iirc

[strange python]

ya that's pretty dumb you're always going to be going up against a healer pretty much

[grim jay]

remove corruption of druids should work, as well as cleanse toxins of pala iirc

[strange python]

even monk has an 8 second purify thing

is it affected by haste?

[shadow tulip]

Prolly

[strange python]

ohh you can use it as a healer nuke probs

if you have them locked down

just stack it with your burst

also with a lot of pressure they are never really that consistent with purify

otherwise our bleeds/poisons would never work

we also have them running into mind numbing, wonder how much that is gonna stack with poison dmg/sepsis nodes

oo cooldown is reduced if not used in full duration, and if you are tricky with your defensive cooldowns, you can hit them with another cheapshot at the end

[vestal wren]

assassination:

[tall jay]

Are rogues still going kyrian as their convent?

[balmy condor]

I will be

It’s really your choice they’re very close

As you can see in fuu’s screenshot

[slender berry]

kyrian is also quite a bit stronger early on for m+ as outlaw

[balmy condor]

Outlaw

But ye

[gilded raptor]

Is outlaw the go to m+ spec above sub and assassination ?

[balmy condor]

Yes

[dawn merlin]

sub is perfectly fine tho

it's just sin is lagging behind

[balmy condor]

Yeah sub is okay

Outlaw’s still the meta spec

Sin is bad

[dawn merlin]

:<

[gilded raptor]

That’s sad 😦

[balmy condor]

It’s a lot easier to fix the st damage than the m+ damage imo as well

Just an aura buff would be fine for raids

But in m+ there’s some damage profile issues

Multi-dotting is basically just energy, not really damage

[jovial haven]

Would of been nice to have a conduit, leggo, or talent that replicated shrouded suffocation

[halcyon oak]

Multi-dotting is basically just energy, not really damage
@balmy condor what do you mean by this?

[balmy condor]

Rupture damage isn’t high

[halcyon oak]

Ah yeah

[balmy condor]

So you can multi dot

And it’s a gain

But it’s not really giga damage

[halcyon oak]

Right

[sick scarab]

so basically kirian still on top..

[balmy condor]

Kinda sucks that sin has to rely on borrowed power stuff

All the covenants are very close

You can pick whatever you want

[sick scarab]

y y

[halcyon oak]

Poison is still good on multi dot at least

[balmy condor]

It really isn’t though

[sick scarab]

i see the fuu pic above

[balmy condor]

Like it’s not great either

[halcyon oak]

Yeah but not hard to apply

[balmy condor]

Never has been

Just doesn’t do damage

[sick scarab]

kirian pelagos works for both singlre and m+

so gg

am i correct ?

[balmy condor]

Yeah

If you super care about that 1.5% gain or whatever

Then kyrian is the way to go early

[sick scarab]

i like night fae BUT i have the tmog lol

hate

[balmy condor]

I personally couldn’t care for any of the transmog

I’m not using any of them anyway

[sick scarab]

true

starting kirian then i will see

[strange python]

is sin still worse than sub on ST encounters?

[balmy condor]

~15%

Yes

[strange python]

pain

hopefully tuning happens before raid release

no way sin should be 15% worse

[sick scarab]

yep agree

noob question

in the same covenant

i can swicht freely or there is a cd ? i mean going from koryan to dreamweaver

[balmy condor]

soulbinds can be changed freely

[sick scarab]

ah

but nvm spesis it is not interesting anymore so.. fuck blizzard

[halcyon oak]

ER seems like it will play really well with the sin rotation

But I don't have beta so I'm just guessing

[sick scarab]

er ?

[balmy condor]

echoing reprimand

the kyrian ability

[sick scarab]

ah y y

i agree

[rotund mauve]

do we have a list of bis gear pre raid

[balmy condor]

that's todays project :)

[grizzled jay]

didn't i already make a list

[balmy condor]

seli simmed 2 pieces and they were both upgrades

[rotund mauve]

I tried sub rogue but im assassin main through and through

[lost sentinel]

is sin good at M+? I heard it is lacking in raid

[balmy condor]

its lacking everywhere

[lost sentinel]

how bad?

[balmy condor]

bad

[lost sentinel]

I also heard subtlety is good?

[balmy condor]

correct

[rotund mauve]

blizz loves assassin tho it will get fixed right

[lost sentinel]

at everything?

Yeah, I am not super worried about balance

[balmy condor]

sub is a little behind outlaw in m+

but is looking like the favorite in pvp from what I hear

and its slightly better than outlaw in single target

[grizzled jay]

i think its just because people spammed Sub when SBS/Akaari's was op and didn't play much Outlaw

But Outlaw is still really strong in pvp

It has Crippling and Wound, and that alone pushes its competitiveness up.

[balmy condor]

Yeah idk what they talk about down in that channel

I just skim through and see a lot of sub and cc pog

And I’m like yep sounds good guys

[slender berry]

the shadow duel from sub ist just so nice tho , so many uses

[strange python]

is sin close to sub on 2 targ?

or is the 15% deficit present still

or is it even more

[grizzled jay]

Outlaw has Plunder Armor and Dismantle. And atm Take Your Cut is procing off SnD.

[proper sage]

I watch a lot of pikaboo's streams and he thinks outlaw is still the worst of the three but still better than it used to be

[grizzled jay]

Trill is a Windwalker main now

[dry atlas]

not having shadowstep is pretty bad

grappling hook doesnt compare

[proper sage]

in pvp i think i would agree but i dont really do any high tier pvp :p

[grizzled jay]

Grappling Hook and Shadowstep do different things

[rotund mauve]

This might be a dumb question but what happened to make assassin so bad. Last time i played in BFA it was by far the best spec

[balmy condor]

we lost a lot of borrowed power

and we didn't have any dev time in beta

spec plays fine, just never got the number buff it needed to keep up

[lost sentinel]

sounds like an easy fix then

[balmy condor]

for single target, yeah

they could just slap a 10-15% aura buff on there and call it a day

would be fine

I personally am of the opinion that m+ has some design problems, which is a bit of a more difficult fix than "just do more damage"

but obviously a 15% aura buff would probably make it kinda okay in m+ as well

super lazy fix that would probably get sin into the ballpark enough to be playable

[vestal wren]

Soulbinds:

[balmy condor]

the great re-pin of 2020

[vestal wren]

yes, need to keep the ordering

tho i am rly not sure if the pre-patch "guide" is relevant still

[balmy condor]

I like watching the pins move around

[grim jay]

looks like kyrian to me

with the mythic week numbers on the spreadsheet being as is

[balmy condor]

looks like a whatever you feel like cause they're basically the same

:')

[grim jay]

wouldnt say that

necro still looks ass in dungeonslice

😄

[balmy condor]

its literally 1.3% behind for mythic week

[grim jay]

if you wanna go for a covenant for both sin and sub

I mean

😄

[dry atlas]

[slender berry]

you either commit to the -15% specc or you dont

[naive trellis]

Hello. I'm new here. Currently playing sin, but from what I've read Outlaw is a go to spec in SL for M+?

[balmy condor]

yes

outlaw is the meta spec for m+

[grim jay]

or you just play one for fun and the other for regular stuff

[primal zinc]

about dauntless duelist

if you swap targets during raid boss on an add or anything else

do you get 3% more on the target everytime you switch?

[balmy condor]

no

[primal zinc]

oh sorry

[balmy condor]

you can only have 1 at a time, and its the first enemy you damage

[primal zinc]

its says the 1st enemy you engage into combat

so the boss only

ye didnt notice that

so as sin

if i have rapture garrote poison on boss

and target the add

the boss still gets 3% even if i vanish to get benefit from sabterfuge garrote?

[balmy condor]

not sure

but its dps neutral either way

[primal zinc]

and also if any1 has the sims from the dreamweaver dps lose plz link them

i wanna see how much dps we lost since fields became 10 sec from 22.5

i wanna check if 1 potency is better than 2 in vanthyr aswell

[balmy condor]

field is a 2.78% delta

[primal zinc]

is full updated?

fuu*

[balmy condor]

yes

[primal zinc]

i mean the link

the !fuu

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Fuus Shadowlands evaluation Spreadsheet: http://tiny.cc/uxr1tz

[balmy condor]

yes

[primal zinc]

hmm

whats best for raids now

venthyr or kleia

haste still >anything else right?

[balmy condor]

I'm making a bis list right now

[primal zinc]

of items?

[balmy condor]

correct

haste > crit => vers => mastery seems pretty true though

the only thing that breaks that rule so far is a crit/vers neck

[primal zinc]

haste crit best stat?

[balmy condor]

haste crit or haste vers or haste mast

in basically every slot

yes

[primal zinc]

about versa and mastery

mastery boots poisons and bleeds

boosts*

[balmy condor]

correct

[primal zinc]

while versa boosts poison bleeds mutilate and envenom dmg (and soulbind skill)

[balmy condor]

vers boosts everything

[primal zinc]

how come mastery= to versa?

[fleet whale]

vers scales slower

[balmy condor]

because 1 point of mastery = x %

and 1 point of vers = y %

and x is not Y

idk the numbers off the top of my head let me check

[primal zinc]

its not x and y

its just 1 proc 1 con for both

[balmy condor]

?

[primal zinc]

pros and cons

1 good 1 bad

[balmy condor]

well no

[primal zinc]

how you say it

[balmy condor]

because you have to think about how much its adding

if 100 mastery adds 40%

and 100 vers adds 1%

then mastery is going to give you more damage

[primal zinc]

more specific dmg

not total dmg

[balmy condor]

well in the situation I gave

it definitely will get you more overall damage

currently, 100 mastery and 100 vers add roughly the same in overall damage

but % wise, vers is lower

vers affects more things, but is therefore weaker point for point

mastery affects less things, and is therefore stronger point for point

but the overall damage you get from either one is roughly the same

[primal zinc]

roughly?

which one is higher?

[balmy condor]

depends on your gear

[primal zinc]

even the slightest?

[balmy condor]

40 points of vers is 1%
21 points of mastery is 1%

before the whole DR nonsense obviously

[pulsar zealot]

If haste is the top stat for us, why is venthyr not a better covenant when it gives us damage along with extra haste? Is kyrian’s covenant ability just that good?

[balmy condor]

soulbinds

[pulsar zealot]

Even after the pelagos nerf?

[balmy condor]

correct

[grizzled jay]

Vers is best stat 🙂

[pulsar zealot]

Not according to what was just posted

[balmy condor]

he's memeing

[pulsar zealot]

Ahh

[grizzled jay]

Vers gives DR thus is best for prog

[balmy condor]

aight nvm trolling

[grizzled jay]

i'd rather have Vers than Mast for prog

[primal zinc]

whats dr?

[pulsar zealot]

All covenants are roughly equal though for all rogue specs right? It isn’t like most classes where you are potentially gimping yourself by not choosing best covenant?

[balmy condor]

would you rather have vers than haste

[pulsar zealot]

Damage reduction

[balmy condor]

yeah all the covenants are close enough

[grizzled jay]

i don't think any gear requires you to choose between those, im pretty sure most is choosing between haste/mast or haste/vers

[balmy condor]

that's not the question though is it

[pulsar zealot]

Would going korayn for soulbind be a benefit to help with damage in the early part of fights? Since zoldyck will give us our execute range damage

[shadow tulip]

I'd rather go haste, not vers

Personally

[balmy condor]

@primal zinc in order to stop stats scaling out of control, there's a reduction in stats you gain after a certain %, you can read about it on wowhead

I would rather haste over vers as well

but the claim was made that vers is best stat

so I'm trying to see what that's all about

[shadow tulip]

Smoother gameplay and feint reduces aoe dmg taken

And you shouldn't take direct hits anywax

[pulsar zealot]

I mean maybe the confusion is that currently with essences and stuff that vers is too star?

Top stat*

[balmy condor]

no, tmb knows what he's talking about

[pulsar zealot]

Got it

[balmy condor]

I'm checking the soulbinds for you btw don't think I forgot you XD

[grizzled jay]

whats the q

[balmy condor]

if korayn + zoldyck is poppin

[pulsar zealot]

Thanks! I just know wild hunt tactics looks like it could be pretty useful to make it so your damage at the beginning of the fight isn’t trash.

[grizzled jay]

well Korayn is at the beginning of a fight and Zoldyck is at the end, so I don't think they really synergize or anything

[balmy condor]

yeah

I just wanted to get the numbers

wild hunt is 3.03%, niya burrs is 5.34%

[grizzled jay]

Korayn is actually probably really bad for Sin in general because the +crit is pretty pointless when your first 3 globals are Garrote

(or are running MA)

[balmy condor]

well first strike is like

months away

I don't really care too much bout that

[grizzled jay]

ah. well Grove Invig or Social Butterfly are both much better than Wild Hunt Tactics

[balmy condor]

grove and social are both worse in sims

social especially

[grizzled jay]

well you can't sim the ally part of Social

[balmy condor]

that's why I specified

[primal zinc]

so above 50% haste we start to lose haste benefits from dps?

[balmy condor]

I think the first point is 34%

I'd have to double check

[primal zinc]

34% with alac or w/o?

[balmy condor]

34% from stats

not % gains

afaik

straight from wowhead

if you're interested

https://www.wowhead.com/guides/diminishing-returns-on-secondary-stats-in-world-of-warcraft

that's the link

[primal zinc]

so we must target 30% haste

[balmy condor]

no

[primal zinc]

so we dont get diminish

[balmy condor]

there's no breakpoints

[fleet whale]

30% haste mandatory memes inc

[balmy condor]

you don't target any of the penalty points

you don't target X stat

you don't do any of that

just keep simming your character

[fleet whale]

Infexious new video: "Stat break points for assassination!"

[balmy condor]

I'm already getting flashbacks to 34% crit

get me the fuck out

[pulsar zealot]

Where does the zoldyck recipe drop from again?

[slender berry]

torghast

[balmy condor]

yeah

Torghast, Tower of the Damned, Coldheart Interstitia, Layer 3+

[grizzled jay]

Infexious new video:

30% Haste? 30% Crit? 30% Mastery? NEW ROGUE STAT GUIDE!

[balmy condor]

30% vers

[grizzled jay]

it'll be like WW with Rune of Reorigination

[primal zinc]

so shispyr

whispyr

[balmy condor]

shitspyr

[primal zinc]

gimme the dream stat

one and only dream stats

[balmy condor]

cause I'm trash

[primal zinc]

%

[pulsar zealot]

As high as you can get them

[balmy condor]

aight

[grizzled jay]

69% Versatility

[balmy condor]

I'll give you the dream stat

the only stat you will ever need

I wasn't going to share this secret tech

[dry atlas]

stack leech

[balmy condor]

but I think its time

Item level

[verbal mantle]

[balmy condor]

[pulsar zealot]

Only bad players care about ilvl. The trick is to have as much avoidance gear as possible. Skip mechanics, keep dps up, profit

[balmy condor]

any rank 1 simdps players in chat?

[grizzled jay]

lmao Whispyr what a noob stacks Item LEvel

I stack GearScore like a fucking chad

[primal zinc]

ok enough with stupid things and memes and picking on ppl...some ppl here including me are new to rogue playstyles and want to know even the tiniest detail that never had in other chars or playstyles so plz shut your mouth if you are not going to say something helpfull

[pulsar zealot]

Mordigen the real answer is you have to sim yourself. You literally can’t have perfect stats for every situation. That goes for any class and spec

[balmy condor]

I answered your question

[pulsar zealot]

The only thing that will increase your damage is simming stat weights. Stat priority is just a general list to go for when starting out

[balmy condor]

oh no

definitely not that

[slender berry]

oh no not the stat weights

[balmy condor]

stat weights are a no no

[primal zinc]

all i wanted to know is when we start to get diminished by the secondary stat and i mean both rating and % as assassins rogues so i can focus on gathering /siming other stats on my gear

[balmy condor]

yes

[primal zinc]

pretty simple and not dump question at all

[balmy condor]

#assassination message

I gave you a screenshot

and a link to the source

right there

[grizzled jay]

we don't know rating because the rating changes as the DR kicks in

[vestal wren]

the stat dr is probably not relevant in the first tier

[balmy condor]

^

[grizzled jay]

its probably not relevant until 9.3

[vestal wren]

people tent to overthink it

[balmy condor]

The answer is "there are no breakpoints, and you shouldn't worry about it, just keep simming"

[grizzled jay]

it'll be like Haste for Demo in 8.3, they actually did hit a haste break-point.

Sin will probably hit that in 9.3

[balmy condor]

🔮

[primal zinc]

was it so hard tmb?

instead the crap you vomited 5 messeges ago?

[balmy condor]

its all cool

we got the question answered

[primal zinc]

yes all cool

[balmy condor]

chillin

[primal zinc]

at least for me its cool

there is just 1 line that some ppl should cross

thats all im saying

im cool

🙂

[grizzled jay]

[primal zinc]

ty now good night

[tough skiff]

[grizzled jay]

now that he's gone we can talk about the actual dream stat breakpoints

🙂

[verbal mantle]

[frigid kestrel]

Hmmm, I feel as though I missed something

[balmy condor]

you're yellow now

[pulsar zealot]

Yes we determined the dream stat

[frigid kestrel]

Finally

I am home

I match my name

Why in sams hell is Sin the lowest of the fruits?!?!!

[balmy condor]

cause dev-chan abandoned us

[graceful fiber]

Hi guys, Im new so maybe this question is kind of noob, but do you know where or how can I find what souldbind rogue must have with korayn?

[balmy condor]

in the pins

[frigid kestrel]

When I first joined in forever ago I signed all three roles and my name was red. I am highly disappointed and quite frankly hurt that red is at the bottom......... in other news this entire “dream stat” convo was a good read.

[graceful fiber]

(or if you know)

ty

[balmy condor]

the pins have the best tree for each soulbind

[graceful fiber]

thx very much 😄

[frigid kestrel]

Why is Kyrian top again? What tf changed?

Updated sims?

[balmy condor]

updated sims and some nerfs ye

[frigid kestrel]

Hmmm, everything still pretty close tho ye? So it doesn’t matter much.

[balmy condor]

correct

[pulsar zealot]

One luxury of being a rogue this expansion is not having to stress about picking a suboptimal covenant. Glad I swapped mains

[frigid kestrel]

........ not yet

Gonna love when a month passes and everyone swaps to something because Blizz wanted to Spice Things Up

Or.... maybe not

[balmy condor]

just wait till the dev team moves to the next expansion and no one's left to balance things, followed by a borrowed power that breaks everything

[fleet whale]

rogue covenants are already very closely tuned to one another

blizz can just focus on tuning rogues as a whole

[pulsar zealot]

Stop. They can hear you

[frigid kestrel]

By tuning rogues you mean tuning sin, ye?

[pulsar zealot]

How do I get rid of this stupid yellow name

[balmy condor]

go into botspam and type !outlaw

[frigid kestrel]

! Outlaw

[pulsar zealot]

Thank you

[balmy condor]

sin rise up

we're shit and proud

[marsh fjord]

is vanish still going to be a offensive cooldown in shadowlands ?

[balmy condor]

yes

[marsh fjord]

ty

[balmy condor]

subt/ma row forces it

[marsh fjord]

Ma?

[balmy condor]

master assassin

the right one

[marsh fjord]

ahh

yeah

i know what is it didn't know the abvravation

or how the hell is that spelled lo l

[grim jay]

@balmy condor hows that ball thingy everyone is talking about on pelagos? some say its annoying

is it worse than ToS trinket-style?

[balmy condor]

dunno

I got beta on wednesday

so beats me

[grim jay]

duh