CS has some fringe uses
#assassination
fleet whale
worthy slate
Stun em until their death
I’m new to this (relatively) so I’ve only experienced assassination
balmy condor
ye
fleet whale
as assassination though you likely won't press it much
rocky ibex
what are the top covenant for raiding?
fleet whale
although they are all kind of close
worthy slate
Cs good for pvp? I only bother w pve
fleet whale
yes cheap shot is good in pvp
worthy slate
Presumably cs and kidney shot are big
worthy slate
Tf is pog lol
balmy condor
dry atlas
balmy condor
missing out on some crucial internet knowledge
dry atlas
balmy condor
I don't think calling it twitch culture is accurate anymore
dry atlas
Damn grandpa how's the retirement fund looking
balmy condor
its just internet now
worthy slate
Retirement fund is looking okay, actually
balmy condor
like shits everywhere
worthy slate
Yeah but it’s still central to that platform and those personalities, just spills out
dry atlas
Cause content from twitch gets re-uploaded everywhere else
worthy slate
Like internet culture for me is still calling people the kind of names that will get me banned now
worthy slate
I just don’t like watching twitch content or someone else play a video game
Why watch when I can play
dry atlas
Entertainment
worthy slate
¯_(ツ)_/¯
balmy condor
why watch a football game when you can play football
dry atlas
Why ask about how to play a game when you can play and figure it out yourself
worthy slate
Sports are for perverts
elfin gulch
e_e
shy dust
What is this channel wtf
balmy condor
sin after dark
prisma yoke
btw i'm 36 and i love twitch culture 
grizzled jay
ty for sharing with the class
prisma yoke
just wanted to counterbalance that statement from 30 minutes ago
lone junco
wary ice
Ok boomer :^)
gloomy knoll
man this is hilarious
the one time i come into the sin channel and the boomers are calling eachother boomers
south drum
!fuu
prisma monolithBOT
Fuus Shadowlands evaluation Spreadsheet: http://tiny.cc/uxr1tz
clear zealot
sin is the boomer spec after all
all the youngins are playing the shadows and the dancing
lofty pecan
and riding a boat
errant delta
so what did we learn from fuus spredsheet?
clear zealot
mechagnomes: % positive, transmog negative
calm copper
Hey, havn't been keeping up with the changes but I just noticed Toxic blade is not in the spellbook anymore which I think it used to be (?). I did see rank 2 shiv tho is that meant to replace it or is toxic blade just missing?
placid dawn
yes, at lvl 56 or something shiv = toxic blade
calm copper
Thanks
low girder
Toxic blade was a talent. Got replaced by alacrity in the talents, shiv got a nerfed version baseline like he said, at lvl 56
calm copper
Yeah I remember the talent but initially it when it was replaced it was coming back as a levling perk no?
low girder
Ye, it's still there, we'll get it in SL
calm copper
That's what I was curious about because I didn't see it in the spell book now and since there was a 20% nature damage component coming to shiv I assumed it would be replaced but you are saying we get both then?
low girder
The rank 2 is in the sin tab, not the general tab where shiv is, because the rank 2 is sin only.
Pretty sure anyway. But yeah, we'll get that component while leveling.
shut garnet
how strict is kyrian in terms of maximising dps?
do you have to line up the CP each time or are you fine “missing it” 1-2 times
like do you lose dps if you try to line it up with dodgy shit like early bleed refreshes/poison knife n its better to just try and naturally hit it or
fallow otter
Do you mean using a spender at less than full CP?
If so, you wanna use a spender at 4-5 without deeper strat and 5-6 with deeper strat that's best
shut garnet
no, i mean - say the magic CP is at 3, and you just mutilated for 2, the only way you 100% gain a single CP to reach it is pk/garrote
fallow otter
And there shouldnt be a need for early bleed refreshes
shut garnet
say youve JUST refreshed garrote earlier
fallow otter
Ohhh you mean specifically for kyrian ability?
shut garnet
do you just keep going with mut envenom and hope you hit a 3cp mutilate next rotation
yea
fallow otter
If I'm correct, I'm pretty sure the sim currently just keeps dpsing until it gets the right cp
Correct cp
No early refreshes of gar to get it
I am not sure whether both situations have been simmed yet
That's a question for @vestal wren
shut garnet
ty chief 
vestal wren
whats the question
carmine raven
hello 🙂
fallow otter
The sim currently just keeps dpsing for ER until it can get the correct CP without refreshing garrote early etc correct? @vestal wren
That's the last thing I heard but I don't know how true that is now, so need the expert
fallow otter
Ok sweet ta that's the best wording
Have you simmed trying to get it popped asap?
By using knife or gar early or something?
Just interested in whether we know if it's by choice or not enough difference in it to worry or if we just don't know get coz we'll figure it out later
wary ice
isnt the duration of the charged cp == the cooldown of the ability?
opal adder
@vestal wren Does Poisoned Katar stack with Hidden Blades? If it does, wouldnt that make HB better than Poison Bomb on ST?
vestal wren
its not better on st
ornate dawn
Those Sin numbers on the spreadsheet make me sad
vestal wren
i am not worried
they will probably buff sin, i hope not to much bc. i would like outlaw/sub to stay relevant
jovial haven
If the buffed sin to be best in 2-3T cleave but sub stays st and outlaw aoe, would be dream for me
opal adder
Link to the spreadsheet please?
jovial haven
!fuu
prisma monolithBOT
Fuus Shadowlands evaluation Spreadsheet: http://tiny.cc/uxr1tz
sick scarab
ffs more i look at conduits less i like them lol 🙂 wtf
Koryan.. for rogue.. face your foes and hold the line.. what the point..
we forced to go First strike ofc cause we are rogue but we have to leave behind a potency conduit
that's suckssss
royal lantern
you are forced?
dunno man
last time i checked nobody is holding a gun too my head and yells at me"take that conduit or say good bye too your dog"
vestal wren
i mad it even more obv.
with covenants being ~.3% in diffrence max, go whatever you want
sweet pecan
i got 2 random disconnects in less then an hour..
vestal wren
what is best on 30 renown is irrelevant
sweet pecan
anyone else?
vestal wren
i was only online to kill the bag rare
but it lagged when 40+ ppl attacked the rare mob 😛
sweet pecan
already got all the rares loot except the mount
vestal wren
i am always bad with drops ^^
not sure why but my "luck" skill seems to be relatively low in wow
jovial haven
You should have something like a 90% chance to get the bag in 11 tries
royal halo
@vestal wren thank you. I need it to be obvious for the dumb dumb in me
Thoughts on the new Wowhead guide?
dry atlas
No thoughts head empty
vestal wren
the guide writers need to say that one is the best
so they need to make a choice
even if it would be "pick what you prefere"
royal halo
@vestal wren Aside from DPS, do you see any covenant/conduit that may have significant utility in raid/dungeon?
vestal wren
necro benefits nearby targets and has the shield
kyrian has the hp stones
night fae has some passive hp gain
royal halo
Venthyr. Feelsbadman.
vestal wren
on beta ye
sick scarab
i say forced but ofc i cant choose all i want
but .. cmon who prefer to choose Face your Foes over First Strike..
i can also choose to run naked screaming but..
that my point
that imho ofc.. we all think different but in my mind i prefer for example old skill tree to these conduit stuff.. tons of possibility doent mean it is better.. always imho
balmy condor
I prefer the one with the bigger damage
sick scarab
old skill tree style then
royal lantern
you complain about "beeing forced too take conduit X" but old skill tree was better?
you litearlly where forced too take X there too actually unlock your class
sick scarab
what skill tree are you talking about ?
imho having 4 coventant each covenant split in 3 .. lead to mass crap but tastes are tastes 🙂
royal lantern
its all passive % increases
no real impact on your gameplay
and no impact at all for the far majority of players
sick scarab
that lead to be useless to have 02193012983012983019830129810983
that have no impac on 90% of players
do less stuff , do that right. make ppl choise stuff that it can matter and let be free to use when they need.. this to me seems a wird tentative to bring both
dry atlas
If you can't comprehend 4 covenants and 3 soulbinds each then maybe it's time to look into simpler games
sick scarab
lol
frail fossil
lmfaoooo
dry atlas
It's obvious to the most casual of players
sick scarab
i comprehend .. i just odsnt like
balmy condor
You’ll find more high skilled players here than the average rogue
frail fossil
i do not know why from all classes you complaining about rogue covs being too complicated
dry atlas
Nobody is forcing you to play a game you don't like
balmy condor
Because this is a discord to get better at the game
And you’ll find people wanting to get better
sick scarab
mm where i said rogue complicated ?
balmy condor
Which is already like top 25%
sick scarab
i said.. more i look at conduits less i like it
dry atlas
Man I love ESL people
sick scarab
lol
royal lantern
more complicated is still really easy
royal lantern
frail fossil
like most of the difficulty is playing your class in a certain set up which u need to learn
sick scarab
imho in koryan tree they should swap First Strike with Face your Foes.. to me more sense that ways.. i way damage 1 way more defence
frail fossil
lmfao
frail fossil
pl ,s st op
sick scarab
i remember landsoul ..
vestal wren
a lot of classes have hidden complexity
royal lantern
vestal wren
e.g. optimizing assassination apl is not always easy but its usually straight forward to play out in game
warm parcel
Give me more @royal lantern
sick scarab
LOOOOL
frail fossil
fav thing is like chuds coming like 5min after the patch and saying ARE THE PINS UPDATED
like fuu is some kind of omniscient being which is not affected by time
balmy condor
I usually run sims for them to hold over until fuu wakes up for that xD
vestal wren
i did some automation ^^
balmy condor
Just have moroes update all the pins 5 head
warm parcel
I meant Whispyr
vestal wren
probably will automate more in the future
balmy condor
Oh
balmy condor
Well I have all the Raidbots stuff in a document
sick scarab
so fuu started SKYNET it seems
balmy condor
Which isn’t really automation but copy pasting is easy enough
frail fossil
i just feelcraft what provide the most serotonin 🙏
sick scarab
we are all doomed 🙂
automated sims running all day 🙂
soon blizzard from future will sent a termimator to fuu house to stop him
or they have to keep balancing stuff
vestal wren
i did start automating more, a quick example(with random simc input):
dry atlas
If only the warrior discord was like this
sick scarab
seee
balmy condor
Warrior discord has @arctic walrus 
sick scarab
terminator INCOMING 😛
warm parcel
Now yoink what the mages do and output the results like this
https://cteer458.github.io/mage-sims/
Shameless plug
Not like we have HD or bloodmallet already 
More pages
vestal wren
XD
vestal wren
JS > ruby > python (personal preference)
frail fossil
tbh i've went in some other class discord it's easy how information is easy to obtain in this one
arctic walrus
warped coral
How is assassination looking in shadow lands?
warm parcel
The same its been for past 6 years
dry atlas
Solid but slightly behind outlaw and subtlety
vestal wren
not exactly the same, it looks slightly lower tuned than usual
warm parcel
I mean gameplaywise
vestal wren
i can't disagree on that
warm parcel
Dmg numbers arent too shabby rn but can change
So still a solid dot, 2min burst spec for proge
With imo better profile than the other two
Just needs some love in dps dep
frail fossil
yeah i mean assa toolkit is nice right doesn't need much change really
like i dont want them to fix things that aint broken
warm parcel
Yea its the same old boring but functions
vestal wren
never change a running system, right
balmy condor
@warm parcel should’ve been here yesterday when people were hailing outlaw as peak damage makeup
frail fossil
cuz after you end up with hpal new infusion of light
warm parcel
dry atlas
Wdym it literally is perfection
balmy condor
Had to bust out the logs
frail fossil
wait what lol
dry atlas
Who cares how you do damage if you do a lot of it
frail fossil
TRUE
dry atlas
And with minimal effort
frail fossil
i mean outlaw is kinda fun imo lol
like it kinda feels a bit less fun in ST tho
but like in cleave it's kinda like
go BRRRRRRRRRRR
balmy condor
I like fun in my games, and hitting 2 buttons isn’t enough serotonin for peanut brain
dry atlas
What was that about sin being lowest APM spec again?
frail fossil
lmfao
balmy condor
Well sin low apm is good for peanut brain, cause I can’t think fast enough for 60apm
Gotta slow it down, I’m on dialup
balmy condor
Swamp 
frail fossil
sub is like the hyperactive zoomer
verbal mantle
swamp
royal halo
Wut? Outlaw is literally gamble spec. Roll that dice
Serotonin as soon as you get 5 buff
verbal mantle
We dont roll dice here, sir.
deft raven
Not anymore.
obtuse anvil
Outlaw can't stop won't stop
Pedal to the floor 24/7
Sin is like a leisurely boat ride
royal halo
Naaa... sin is like debuff juggling.
deft raven
I mean, you just roll every 45sec. There's some expected value. It's still random but so low variance it doesn't matter.
vestal wren
weakaura management simulator
dry atlas
dry atlas
It's less than 45s cause you reduce the cd
balmy condor
@vestal wren coding weakauras for empowered garrotes was the most fun I had all bfa 
frail fossil
i mean let's not act like rolling is some kind of super active mechanic u press it every 30sec, u got a cool or a bad buff
warm parcel
Does it work properly?
deft raven
roll every y sec and it's still the same thing.
warm parcel
Does it member the targets it empowered?
balmy condor
Yes
frail fossil
afenar's rogue dont show empowered garrote i gotta change that
warm parcel
Gimme a post
warm parcel
NS
deft raven
@frail fossil there was a bit of strategy to prepping between groups, no?
balmy condor
Exactly
warm parcel
I wanna yoink that custom code
frail fossil
cuz my brain cant follow empowered garrote if a wa dont show me
royal halo
There is a little bit of strat with rolling, since you refresh bad buff ASAP, while you leave the good one until it expires
frail fossil
yeah
balmy condor
@warm parcel I posted my wago link in here at some point go find it
deft raven
more variance anyway
frail fossil
but it's just to know which one are good which one are bad
like it's not rocket science
deft raven
lol yes because that would be a lot less fun
warm parcel
warm parcel
Im afking rares
dry atlas
Watching breaking bad till I decide to kick my gf off the pc and do my dailies
frail fossil
let her do the dailies
frail fossil
i'm going necro until like renown 30ish is unlockable
after i'll see
my rl think that emeni buff is dope af so yeah and it's not like it changes much for me
dry atlas
I'm going necro and not swapping cause I like the abilities and crafting the abominations plus you can make mounts there
warm parcel
This thing has like 35 conditions and 70 triggers
royal halo
God, l like the Venthyr look, but that teleport seems kinda trash
balmy condor
Ye
frail fossil
venthys aesthetic is nice but both ability are a no from me
dry atlas
I've got a character for each covenant
balmy condor
Feels conditions man
royal halo
I like the combat ability, but the teleport seems so slow.
I have a hard time seeing when I would use that Venthyr door in PVP or PVE
dry atlas
Doesn't it fear around where you teleport after you unlock a conduit
warm parcel
This does forget too
dry atlas
I remember seeing something like that
balmy condor
Or else one of my triggers is completely worthless
warm parcel
dry atlas
And it can function like warlock gate in pvp
warm parcel
I couldnt even tell you what went wrong cause Im that good at lua
If anything did go wrong that is
balmy condor
Yeah idk
warm parcel
Seems fine now
balmy condor
If found issues with it sometimes if I lag
But idk why
Cause it reads combatlog, no networking happening there
And combatlog is client side as well afaik
balmy condor
Most of the conditions are the color controls
Trigger says “if it’s empowered”, and then the condition goes “sick that triggers active, time to color it”
Rupture has the pandemic stuff on top of it
warm parcel
Right, Im just looking to delete parts of this
warm parcel
For starters the cd
balmy condor
But the alpha ones you can delete
wary ice
Trigger says “if it’s empowered”, and then the condition goes “sick that triggers active, time to color it”
@balmy condor big fan of tony Hawk pro compiler 3
balmy condor
I’ll look at it in a second
And tell you which aren’t needed
The cd stuff is custom code in display
Basically if you’re trying to isolate the empowered tracking
Every alpha condition, and condition that changes to green, you can boot
The display code for the cd you can boot
warm parcel
The condition 5 is for exsang I presume
balmy condor
okay, so the custom text in display is for the cd
trigger 1 is to track garrote baseline
trigger 2 is just an alpha thing
trigger 3 is the remembering trigger
trigger 4 checks what mob we're hitting
trigger 5 is exsang cast tracking
condition 1 is greyscale if garrote is missing
condition 2 is change color if we remembered
condition 3 is color for pandemic if not empowered
condition 4 is alpha stuff
condition 5 is exsang
actions on init is needed to track all the spell ID's and shit
so if you're only interested in the empowered tracking, you're looking for trigger 3, trigger 4, condition 2, and the init stuff
balmy condor
XD
warm parcel
Yeye the always active
warm parcel
Dont you need the baseline spell ID track, both custom ones and then exs id track
So 4
balmy condor
nah, not my thing
warm parcel
strange python
what in tarnation is going on in here
balmy condor
we're talking about my wa's
warm parcel
A boomer trying to read LUA
balmy condor
this garrote tracking wa to be precise
strange python
I can't even read
lone junco
rip
balmy condor
subt life
lone junco
weak ass subterfuge garrotes made me sad
lone junco
idc about azerite.
balmy condor
aight
lone junco
i meant for 60
balmy condor
well for 60 its blindside and master assassin
and alacrity, in everywhere
I guess that's clearer
lone junco
sure.
so you get a blindside proc and vanish ambush env ambush
?
w/e
i always wanted blindside to do a bit more than NOTHING
balmy condor
vanish env mut env I would think
lone junco
so thats good to see.
lone junco
Disc main. So which rogue spec will enjoy my PI most?
balmy condor
glad to help
lone junco
sin vendetta lineup would be nice probably
balmy condor
yeah but every spec kinda enjoys the haste atm
lone junco
isnt haste on sub just free cps?
balmy condor
but I would assume strictly speaking, you'll probably get a little bit more out of PI on sin
yeah
balmy condor
zoldyck atm
lone junco
warm parcel
O
lone junco
i loved bracer in legion. good pick.
warm parcel
Wanna a nice cheat for pandemic timer
local aura = select(4, ...)
-- local duration = select(6, UnitDebuff("target", aura, "PLAYER")) or 0
local duration = select(6, WA_GetUnitAura("target", aura)) or 0
local combopoints = UnitPower("player", 4)
local remaining = progress - GetTime()
local refresh = (4 + (4 * combopoints)) * 0.3
local target = UnitGUID("target")
if progress ~= 0 then
if remaining < refresh then
return "|cFF00FF00"..format("%.f", remaining)
else
return "|cFFFFFFFF"..format("%.f", remaining)
end
end
end
As custom text
strange python
Should I stick with sin or go sub in slands? Been doing sub the past two weeks in mythic reclears but it feels weird 😐
warm parcel
Saves you plenty conditions
balmy condor
yeah I could do that weak but I'm lazy and the dps hit isn't noticable
balmy condor
lone junco
Should I stick with sin or go sub in slands? Been doing sub the past two weeks in mythic reclears but it feels weird 😐
@strange python I always played all 3. Sub is just cooldown alignment. Takes a bit to learn, but play what is best imo.
bright lintel
I am thankful for that, keeps the immersion in tact
balmy condor
@warm parcel I have 90 auras loaded in combat, and its 1-2 fps less in aoe than just disabling wa's entirely
so idk
2 fps out of 115
warm parcel
ikik Im just bullying
balmy condor
:)
balmy condor
that's a sadge and a half
warm parcel
Also I really need to learn lua
Spent too many hours today trying to anchor BuffFrame properly
Cause blizzard doesnt wanna be consistent with the pixels
balmy condor
can't you just do that with moveanything
dry atlas
How bad is your pc lmao
warm parcel
It aint that
Zul was just a special case in case you didnt prog it
It was fixed like the next week
Id just rather do stuff myself and learn on the way
shadow tulip
Where does the text even go? lol
warm parcel
shadow tulip
👍
summer stag
Why is outlaw picked for best for m+ over assassination in shadowlands?
balmy condor
because it does more aoe and has gouge and no reliance on vanish
balmy condor
you need more reason than ~20% more damage and more utility?
grizzled jay
it only got beat by uncapped aoe ranged dps
and VDH is the best dps tank in the game right now
and outlaw still beat it
mint peak
capped aoe 
jovial haven
Range had raids, blizz needed to find a way to give them dungeons too 
heavy vessel
o/ I'm a returning sin rogue catching up on everything and trying to get set up going into SL. I've always used class timer to keep track of bleeds and buffs. Clearly WA is the better option but I'm a bit intimidated by the scope of the addon. Is there a good write up/primer for rogue WA I could check out. Any must have WAs you guys recommend?
grizzled jay
Outlaw also has more setup than it did before with SnD and Covenant abilities, so in a short engagement it might do less aoe than tank but the longer a fight does on, Outlaw does more and more damage as it gets resets from Restless Blades
jovial haven
Surprised shadow didn’t get a “shadowy concealment “ trait haha
balmy condor
@heavy vessel you can get a bunch of premade ones that work perfectly fine
grizzled jay
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
balmy condor
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
balmy condor
yeah
grizzled jay
fuk u whispyr
heavy vessel
awesome! What's the difference in the groups, just personal perference or ?
balmy condor
must haves would be just your usual tracking of cds and dots
heavy vessel
preference*
balmy condor
its visual mostly
some of them aren't updated for slice
and don't track some niche stuff
these are mine if none of the above are your fancy
wind zenith
does garrote do a ton of bonus damage from stealth?
balmy condor
np
heavy vessel
Whispyr do you have a screengrab of your wa?
balmy condor
not on me
heavy vessel
kk, i'll dive into these after work, thanks.
grizzled jay
@balmy condor wanna help me fix my WAs
heavy vessel
@balmy condor sweet, thanks! I'm sure I'll be back later with all sorts of noob questions
balmy condor
ye np
grizzled jay
whispyr hates me 😢
prisma yoke
are the azerite traits carrying over to SL leveling process?
grizzled jay
no
prisma yoke
so a head/shoulder/chest with lower ilvl but secondary stats should prove optimal?
prisma yoke
or does the raw agi outscale any secondaries
balmy condor
agi is better
prisma yoke
i would guess i get an upgrade within the first 1 or 2 levels
but since there is nothing to do right now, i might as well pretend i am prepared for leveling as best as i can
balmy condor
sure
grizzled jay
if you have mythic azerite you won't replace it for a while
secondaries are worse than raw stats for leveling because scaling gets worse as you level
balmy condor
true
grizzled jay
if you are just in normal nyalotha azerite probably in the first 3-4 levels you replace those
prisma yoke
i am pretty low ilvl (returning player)
balmy condor
yeah if you're low ilvl, you'll replace them real quick
pliant tusk
hmm, waiting until 1 week before expac to look into anything related to classes was probably a mistake
balmy condor
I think probably fine
pliant tusk
on the bright side
rerolling back to rogue
means i dont have to deal with the DH discord people anymore
\o/
pliant tusk
noooooooooo
assassination for life
100% crit legendary is back
couldnt be happier
balmy condor
I fucking hate it
it makes a talent completely worthless, and the other options are reverse synergy
balmy condor
ma also just doesn't make sense with the gameplay tbh
melee, poison being a large part of our damage
and then ma for the..... big envenoms every 2 minutes?
kinda questionable
wind zenith
tbh im still mildly annoyed that sin is the only spec that doesnt like verse
prisma monolithBOT
Pre patch: Versatility > Critical Strike > Mastery > Haste
**Shadowlands: ** Haste > Versatility => Critical Strike => Mastery
balmy condor
lmao XD
grizzled jay
Vers is dank af, especially for prog cause it gives DR
pliant tusk
proggers
radiant raptor
Master assassin talent still existing is bullshit tho isn't?
pliant tusk
120% crit 5head
vestal wren
Master assassin talent still existing is bullshit tho isn't?
why?
grizzled jay
Presumably any time MA the talent would be good, MA the legendary would just be better
vestal wren
its only "bad" if you craft the MA legendary
balmy condor
well yes
grizzled jay
If we had MA legendary during EP, you'd take that over MA the talent
radiant raptor
why wouldnt craft it
grizzled jay
And then just use Nightstalker for vanish ruptures
grizzled jay
we'll see what happens mythic week changes
balmy condor
ye as long as it stays like this
vestal wren
why wouldn't you craft it?
👀 on first strike
pliant tusk
with current information clear choice 😛
pliant tusk
did covenants get shuffled agaib
vestal wren
but tbh, if you go with multiple legendary items early, ma is probably the best "general" legendary
balmy condor
wdym by "shuffled"
pliant tusk
last i saw it was kyrian bis for m+ and raids
balmy condor
yes
pliant tusk
pin says night fae
grizzled jay
Pelagos got nerfed
radiant raptor
but tbh, if you go with multiple legendary items early, ma is probably the best "general" legendary
@vestal wren yep and usable across all specs
grizzled jay
Pelagos has been nerfed 2 times actually since the last time Kyrian was BiS
grizzled jay
Combat med went from 5% to 4% to 3% but higher duration
radiant raptor
combat meditation is 7,5s basic duration on beta right now
wow head still saying its 10s
jovial haven
@grizzled jay that’s let go the past. Combat med is the orb one
lost sentinel
is sin gonna be good in SL?
balmy condor
not right now
drifting cosmos
balmy condor
it was very good at the start of bfa
was also fairly good at the start of legion
but classes were a lot more volatile after the legion reworks
so I don't really think its a good historical reference
frail fossil
YES BUT WE GOT THE LATE GAME IN SL 
balmy condor
fleet whale
Sin path in Legion, solid start in EN
Very good in TOV
started good in NH but fell off a bit as the tier went on
bad in ToS
became good again in ABT
strange python
it doesn't really matter, what does is that it's currently undertuned
Honestly though (puts tinfoil hat on) I suspect that devs care less about a single spec being undertuned on a class with 3 dps specs, they just sorta rely on "they have other options"
seems pretty clear that's what they did with sub in BFA too tbh
fleet whale
sub started off strong though in BFA
balmy condor
idk bout that theory tbh
strange python
it did, but once it was nerfed it just stayed that way
balmy condor
I think they just put devs somewhere else
strange python
like I say, tinfoil hat
it's just lower on priority
care "less" not, "not at all"
fleet whale
i think partly why blizz didn't do much to help sub is because they didn't like how it was designed
they've intentionally made specs weak when they aren't a fan of their design
strange python
I don't think sin fits that mold mind, they seem pretty happy with it's current iteration, though I'd wager we don't see much tuning on it for a time
I hope I'm wrong, but I really wouldn't be surprised, just due to there being higher priorities when rogue players "have other options"
in the mean time though, I guess I can relish in not being harmed by chain pulling lol
fleet whale
i don't know if blizz is so much happy with it
so much as they've just haven't put much attention to it
there is no way any dev could look at the last two talent rows and be happy
worthy hinge
People, how are you doing? What is the best covenant for raid so far? I understand that sub is good at the beginning of the patches. I'm new in the class, I hope you can understand me, thank you very much!
nimble garnet
question @balmy condor , the reason night fae is ahead is for the tree( souldbind) or rathe rmore at the ability
jovial haven
unless at the same time burrs gets 'fixed', then NF could stay on top 😛
low girder
nah if burrs gets fixed it's getting nerfed
weak oak
anyone have any good elvui configs i can use?
halcyon grail
SnD still breaks stealth with Subterfuge specced? Lovely.
grizzled jay
Necro best in M+ just for LBE for your team
lapis dragon
👀 Question of the day: Why they didnt changed 3rd talent in second row "Master Assassin" since now we have a much better option with legendary? Imo since that is "stealth" row they could use something like Overkill was in WOTLK.. After u break stealth and XX seconds after u regenerate XX% more energy.. whitch maybe would be solution to sins cripled rotation 🙂
balmy condor
ask blizz
fleet whale
if they bring back overkill it should be baseline
I'm tired of blizz "bringing things back," only to make that thing a talent
in which case you either don't get it back, or have to trade in something else you had
grizzled jay
they didn't replace Master Assassin because presumably in 10.0 we won't have the legendary
balmy condor
genius
grizzled jay
And MA can be good in a world where we don't use the legendary.
also Sin doesn't have a crippled rotation
Just get better at pooling energy
low girder
it's only "crippled" if you only played it during 8.3
fair rain
weak
fair rain
lapis dragon
@warm parcel i thinks so too... maybe some time during shadowlands, like "numbing poison" was changed with toxic blade during legion.
warm parcel
You mean ago, but yes
Hopefully they would get ro it sooner than later
Its just disappointing
pallid swift
!guide
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Guides:
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide
floral shoal
Has anyone simmed the trinkets yet after nerf? (not only am i lazy, also at work)
shrewd night
I dont think anyone really cares that much about trinketsims that has shelflife of 7 days
warm parcel
Most arent even in sim yet
summer marten
!sims
prisma monolithBOT
Simulations:
Herodamage: https://www.herodamage.com/rogue/
Bloodmallet: https://bloodmallet.com/index.html
uneven summit
Man i just can´t decide on a covenant
uneven summit
it deffo seems like it
summer marten
that sims stuff wasnt exactly i was hoping for lol
vestal wren
what do you look for?
summer marten
if possible, conduit sims and such, to see how much i lose if i pick stuff i like more gameplay wise
vestal wren
!fuu
prisma monolithBOT
Fuus Shadowlands evaluation Spreadsheet: http://tiny.cc/uxr1tz
vestal wren
soulbinds early:
summer marten
ooh, nice, thx
vestal wren
on 30 renown yes (for single target)
but as mentioned in #subtlety its expected that we see some more covenant tuning
drowsy hollow
Is poison bomb relatively weak these days?
warm drift
compared to legion yes
proper sage
you don't have to ask to ask questions here 🙂
primal zinc
just trying to be polite 😄
anyways
im kinda comfused about the stat priority of assassin at the start of shadowlands.....many ppl say versa mastery.....other say haste crit....othet versa crit
i wanna know what the best for ST stat prio
and also the opener cd of an elite encounter
shrewd night
Stat prio for the start of shadowlands is Ilevel > stats.
proper sage
!guide
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Guides:
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide
proper sage
you can find that specific information in the guides above^
primal zinc
we ty for the help but you helped me 50% of the questions
now i know i must get versa>crit
as for opener i know about what to keep up and whats my cds
talking about the order of the skills so i can pull max dps from the start
for example pre-patch ppl use garrote>rapture>garrote>muti>slice and dice> vendeta
shrewd night
primal zinc
and then refresh silce and rapture with muti and envenom for dps
summer marten
on wowhead guide, press rotation at the top where it says "guide highlights" and then scroll down to openers
shrewd night
@proper sage dw, he is reading the prepatch stat prios.....
Which is like bolded out and shit above the list.
primal zinc
im talking about what the expansion opener would be with 60 lvl shiv on rotation
not now
i know the pre-patch opener.....im talking about the shadowlands opener w/o the garrote azerite which grants 3 cp,,,,and also with shiv from 58 and on....
proper sage
the shadowlands guide isn't out yet but the !guide command will be updated when they are 🙂
shrewd night
We will let you know what the opener is when tuning is done 
primal zinc
ty
as for shadowlands stats prio?
is it the same?
or its a fact that versa>crit will be the best for shadowlands?
drifting cloud
stats prios dont exist in 2020
primal zinc
at least the start of the expansion
proper sage
at the start of expansion go for ilvl
shrewd night
Stat prio for the start of shadowlands is Ilevel > stats.
I said this right after you asked your question
proper sage
nw^^
primal zinc
btw is alacrity really a buff instead of toxic blade?
proper sage
im not sure what you mean
drifting cloud
alac is insane yes
proper sage
toxic blade doesn't compete with alacrity as a talent
in fact toxic blade just doesn't exist anymore
shrewd night
Oh, we get a skill called toxic blade at 58?
Thats news to me
Where did you get that info?
proper sage
koffing stop 
primal zinc
shiv rank 2 does more poison damg
proper sage
was just trynig to get more clarification on your message morg
because i thought you think that alacrity and toxic blade compete with each other
since you said
is alacrity really a buff instead of toxic blade?
they haven othing to do with each other
primal zinc
sorry for bad english btw
proper sage
its okay yea that's why i was asking for clarification 😄
primal zinc
koffing you dont have to be sarcastic i would be greatful but im kinda new to rogues rotation and all i wanted is the shadowlands stat prio and the shadowlands opener with the NEW shiv (as old toxic blade) ofc alac is free 10% haste but the carification i wanted is if that talent will change the stats weights and also if there could be a softcap on haste
proper sage
yea all of that is just guessing atm i would recommend checking out guides when SL comes out
vestal wren
!stats
prisma monolithBOT
Pre patch: Versatility > Critical Strike > Mastery > Haste
**Shadowlands: ** Haste > Versatility => Critical Strike => Mastery
proper sage
when you're leveling and gearing ilvl will rule and you will be upgrading gear a lot at the beginning 🙂
low girder
It'll be the same as the opener with subt with no shrouded traits in the wowhead guide. The only difference is you'll hit shiv after vendetta. Or possibly mutilate and then shiv after vendetta
primal zinc
omg
ty
mata i ❤️ u same as lauren for the understanding 😄
finally a str8 answer 🙂
proper sage
npnp
left moth
so i jus tresubbed after 6months of not playing, and i heared assa is gonna be the weakest rogue spec going into sl, also SnD feels awful on assa what is your guyses opinion
i outdamaged every outlaw in m+ with shroued suffacation and echoing blades, but now that shroudes suffacation is gone we wont do any dmg in m+ anymore i feel like
willow leaf
with enough levels in "prepared for all" is it possible to keep up evasion indefinitely if there's enough mobs attacking you?
lapis dragon
Any info on how would opener in SL would look like with MasterAssassin lego? I assume same as on guide on wowhead?
My guesses would be with Nightstalker talented:
From stealth
Mutilate>SnD..
Mutilate>Garote>Rupture..
Then pool 5cps and Vendetta Vanish Envenom..
Also theres covenant ability so any smarter guy than me to guide me maybe?
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Guides:
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide
placid dawn
!guide
late birch
damn, howd Night Fae just become the strongest covenant for all specs O.o
dry atlas
Tuning
slender berry
honestly imo there could be a >= between nightfae and kyrian
dry atlas
All the covenants are within 1% power difference
quaint sequoia
how far behind is sin vs sub right now?
quaint sequoia
guess I'll have to go sub then 😦
tropic ocean
😂
frail fossil
mf said alright i'm out
delicate bone
nothing wrong with that lol
frail fossil
never said it was
delicate bone
recognizing when you should cut your losses is a good trait xD
frail fossil
just funny
delicate bone
agreed
quaint sequoia
Not gonna be sub-optimal 🤷♂️
quaint sequoia
less than 5% I would be able to be okey with, but not 15%
frail fossil
yeah
strange python
discord.gift/5QdzRuZE3xuhJjRkATPp7V8A
grim jay
gotta wait for balancing week after raid opening. I'd be fine with either sin or sub tbf
toxic thunder
Is sin not high on dps for SL
tropic ocean
will see
first question you should ask yourself before switching to a spec that you don't like, or not like as much is, if spec x does 5% more dps than spec y will I do 5% more dps on spec x
😉
toxic thunder
Very true
I’ve been trying sub
It’s not as fun as sin to me right now
But maybe it’ll change
mental laurel
Anyone know where (as a Necro Sin) Serrated Bone Spike sits in multi-target prio? I'm guessing getting your Garrote, Rupture and SnD up is a bigger prio than putting up your first SBS, but on additional targets is it more worthwhile to put up a second Garrote/Rupture first?
balmy condor
Subt garrotes > snd > sbs > rupture > garrotes atm
mental laurel
Okay good to know. Any idea if SBS damage is enhanced by Zoldyck? Or Crimson Tempest? I have a feeling Zoldyck will only apply to Garrote/Rupture but it would be cool if those benefitted too
balmy condor
Ct is, sbs does not
grim jay
turns out: coding error
exsanguinate affects sbs dot
ticks faster after every use
- benefits from zoldyck
balmy condor
Really now
grim jay
no jk
balmy condor
Aight
grim jay
would be broken as hell
balmy condor
I don’t have beta so I’ve just been tracking and taking other peoples words for things
There’s been crazier bugs xD
rough agate
How are you gonna do Whispyr like that 
bright lintel
You know guys, we are always asking 'how is sin?', 'how good is x conduit or y legendary?' and most of the time Whispyr is answering. Yet we never ask 'How are you @balmy condor ?' 
rough agate
lol
tribal obsidian
Just sub
dense cedar
Combat is never coming back
balmy condor
We only need 69 signatures
dense cedar
It has already walked the plank
frail fossil
i mean they removed combat out of nowhere
so they can remove outlaw
out of nowhere
rough agate
took awhile though
frail fossil
idk how people will take it too xd
dense cedar
ez solution
balmy condor
I actually don’t mind it all that much
dense cedar
Make rogue like druid
balmy condor
But it’s just not my thing
dense cedar
combat and outlaw 😎
balmy condor
Too similar
frail fossil
was there a reason they totally reworked combat ?
rough agate
yeah not really
frail fossil
so they saw combat and were like
balmy condor
Revealing strike and bandits guile were the two things that it really “lost”
frail fossil
what if pirate
dense cedar
THey probably just couldn't think of what to do for their order hall and artifact stuff
balmy condor
I just hope all the outlaw players are happy :)
balmy condor
:(
grim jay
dunno like
for me the gun-thingy kills it
couldnt even think of any glyphs to implement that could change it to something else
dense cedar
Between the eyes?
balmy condor
Pistol shot
dense cedar
idk what is not to like about pistol shot tbh
dense cedar
its just the rogue ranged ability being actually a part of the normal gameplay
frail fossil
yeah but u use it when you're in melee anyway
so it doesn't change much in term of gameplay
frail fossil
yeah
dense cedar
enough outlaw in the sin chat tho
frail fossil
yeap
balmy condor
Y’all ready for “what trinket is good now that everything is nerfed”
dense cedar
Gotta tryhard that leveling
grim jay
I mean I finish leveling rather sooner than later, but ye
marble magnet
Icyveins master assassin opener.
Guide says Rupture > Mutilate > Garotte
Is there a diferrence if I Rupture > Garotte > Mutilate
dense cedar
with no reset happening
you have all the time in the world to get everything done
Is SL launching will all dungeons?
grim jay
well. its not that easy tbf. multiple chars and maybe you have limited time 😄
dense cedar
true ig
marble magnet
@grim jay pistol glyph could be a crossbow
balmy condor
Mut - Rupture - mut - garrote is strictly better than mut - rupture - garrote - mut with ma
You’re missing the crit chance on the second mutilate
marble magnet
Why is garrote a bad use of it
balmy condor
Because garrote for 1 doesn’t have any instant damage attached to it
So you’re only critting that 1 tick of it
And it can’t seal fate
So with a mut crit, you’re getting 4cp and the instant damage crit is bigger
With a garrote crit, your getting the same amount of cp, and only 1 tick is critting
So mut - rup - mut gives your strictly more cp and more damage than mut - rup - gar
sweet pecan
so in case anyone is looking for an addon manager now that twitch is quitting.. i really liked ajour, works real fast, and it has a backup addons and wtf folder option
open source too
sweet pecan
hmmm aite my B
i was wondering what all the other text channels which name doesnt contain ASS twice where for
they seemed so useless until now
balmy condor
Channel name contains ass twice to reflect our current balance state in shadowlands
vestal wren
ajour is not very stable:
fluid galleon
velvet geyser
Wowup is bae
pliant tusk
Curseforge has posted an important update stating that site support will be suspended during the launch of Shadowlands, disallowing any new addons or project updates between 11/24 to 11/30, while finalizing transition to Overwolf.
so no addon updates for the 1st week
are they trying to piss everyone off
balmy condor
good thing that all the addons are already updated then
strange python
fuck curseforge
verbal mantle
pliant tusk
spywolf delenda est
wind totem
I haven't been keeping up with the beta changes. Do we have an idea which spec looks like to be the best for raiding/m+ and is it a big difference from the rest?