assassination

[balmy condor]

Yes

[plush prairie]

How can we calculate the damage of Rupture ?

[balmy condor]

What do you mean

And why are we calculating rupture damage

[plush prairie]

I want to display the value of the tooltip

in realtime

i use TellMeWhen & it can calculate with statistic

[AttackPower]* 0.1253 * (1 + [Versatility] / 100) (1[Mastery]/100)] but the result is false

[balmy condor]

There’s a lot of stuff that goes into tool tips

[dry atlas]

Have you considered enemies having different defensive stats

[plush prairie]

yes

[balmy condor]

You’re forgetting haste

[plush prairie]

[((1 + Versatility / 100) * (1 + Mastery / 100) * (1+Haste / 100) * AttackPower * 0.1253):Short]

like that ?

but don't work too

[balmy condor]

Criticals arent added into tool tips

[plush prairie]

result is false

yes

[dry atlas]

Ok but why do you want to calculate rupture damage

[plush prairie]

like that

To optimize cast of rupture 🙂

[balmy condor]

There’s no optimization to be done

[dry atlas]

Lmao

[balmy condor]

Damage updates dynamically

[plush prairie]

Euh

Tooltip's debuff say no x(

[balmy condor]

Also why are you using attack power 0.1253

I’m telling you right now, damage updates dynamically

[plush prairie]

https://fr.wowhead.com/spell=1943/rupture#modified-by
(12.53% of Attack power)

[balmy condor]

That’s not the tooltip

[plush prairie]

But the tooltip indicates the same value as at cast

the tooltip debuff

[balmy condor]

The tooltip reads from 25.06%

[plush prairie]

what ? Sorry my english is bad & i don't understand ><'

[balmy condor]

You’re looking at tick damage

Not tooltip

[plush prairie]

Tick damage don't change with buff when Rupture is already cast

?

[balmy condor]

Yes it does

[plush prairie]

sedlkjfhjbqsdljhfbqsd

[balmy condor]

Also are you adding in the aura modifier

The only thing that snapshots

Is nightstalker

And exsang snapshots haste

Otherwise, it’s all dynamic

[plush prairie]

I just want to cry

[balmy condor]

@verbal mantle send baguette

[dry atlas]

You're overcomplicating for no reason

[verbal mantle]

yes?

[dry atlas]

Just press the button and play the game like a normal person

[balmy condor]

This guy is French

Idk figure it out

[verbal mantle]

[dry atlas]

[verbal mantle]

wait lemme read

[royal lantern]

https://tenor.com/view/french-cat-oui-beret-gif-12273856

[verbal mantle]

i mean, eng is not an issue for me but math is

[marble ruin]

Slice and Dice from stealth with EP and Subterfuge is fixed on beta

[balmy condor]

Was just ep

[verbal mantle]

why do you want to know that in the first place anw

[balmy condor]

But pog

Idk I think he doesn’t think damage updates dynamically

For whatever reason

[verbal mantle]

ofc it does lord mercy

[balmy condor]

So he’s trying to replicate the tooltip in order to ‘snapshot’ rupture casts

[verbal mantle]

okey

[balmy condor]

But apparently language barrier and I can’t explain it in French

Therefore

Summon baguette

[drifting cloud]

[verbal mantle]

@plush prairie
c'est quoi que tu captes pas ? parce que savoir ça va pas t'aider à opti tes casts de rupture, l'essentiel c'est de refresh dans le pandemic

après ça y'a pas grand chose d'autre à savoir quoi

baguette done

[dry atlas]

🥖

[plush prairie]

Enfaite, il y a presque un rapport 2 entre un cast avec et sans buff (divers et varier)

[plain thistle]

[balmy condor]

[verbal mantle]

[plush prairie]

Sauf que le tooltip du debuff sur la cible met soit du temps a se refresh soit il se refresh pas... alors que les dégats devraient varié selon plein de chose

[royal lantern]

now i know what tooltip and debuff means in french

im basicly french now

oui

[verbal mantle]

lmao

[balmy condor]

And refresh

[verbal mantle]

euh ouaaaais ok
on va go en dm jpense pour pas flood en fr

[royal lantern]

https://tenor.com/view/mr-worldwide-pitbull-gif-12198769

[verbal mantle]

parce que je capte r à ce que tu demandes x)

go dm

[plush prairie]

Ouais les roast-beef sont pas content

[balmy condor]

Thanks dadsen

What about roast beef

[verbal mantle]

anytime my friend

huh

[plush prairie]

We love you ❤️

Like you love baguette

[balmy condor]

Lmao

[plush prairie]

I return learn rogue & English

bye ❤️

[balmy condor]

[verbal mantle]

[dry atlas]

Baguette isn't even close to best bread

[balmy condor]

Sacre bleu

[verbal mantle]

we'll discuss about that roast beef thing later on
gotta eat my dinner, and not the proper channel to do it anw

[balmy condor]

Yeah, back to your regularly scheduled 💤 sin chat

[obtuse anvil]

sin chat got so cosmopolitan

[verbal mantle]

swamp

[marble ruin]

@balmy condor not sure why you're correcting me when you're dead wrong.. Why don't you hop on live where it's still bugged. Try nightstalker and EP and then switch to subterfuge EP.

[balmy condor]

Neither worked for me last time I checked

But I’m glad it’s fixed

[fleet whale]

Yes, Night Fae life looks to be good

[grim mason]

so I feel energy starved in M+ with haste procs taking me up to 55+ and feels like sometimes Mutilate isnt giving me combo points in reg/some fights

[royal lantern]

you dont cast mutilate during aoe

[balmy condor]

multi-dotting should take care of all your energy needs

[royal lantern]

get bleeds on ~6enemys and you are gcd capped

[grim mason]

nah the mut part is just like in reg wq and stuff

[balmy condor]

[royal lantern]

well,welcome too assassination, its not a gcd capped spec in st sitautions

you have downtimes etc.....

[balmy condor]

I don't think that's what he's saying

[royal lantern]

then im confused now?

[grim mason]

ok here

I feel energy starved in M+ ever with multidots on 4-6 targets or more

[balmy condor]

do you have poisons on

[royal lantern]

stupid question but, you have poisons right?

[grim mason]

When I am doing WQ and other random things outside of M+ I feel like Mut isnt giving me combo points

Yep i am poisoned out my mind lol

[dry atlas]

🧐

[balmy condor]

mut can get parried

[grim mason]

meh maybe a few more M+ to feel it out

[balmy condor]

and you can miss

so that might be something

but like

[royal lantern]

ye, the most frustraiting thing too happen in this game btw

[balmy condor]

not at all? that's weird

[grim mason]

WAIT WUT....parried is this fucking vanilla even from behind?

[balmy condor]

not behind

[grim mason]

and missing attacks......I need to level up my dagger skill then

[dry atlas]

Use fan of knives on aoe to generate combo points and just multi dot

[grim mason]

where do I go 🙂

[balmy condor]

he's not saying he's using mut in aoe

[royal lantern]

missing attacks is still a thing btw

[balmy condor]

yup

[royal lantern]

you miss quite a few offhand autoattacks

and enemys can still dodge when you hit them from the front

[grim mason]

wait really have I just not beeing paying attention

[royal lantern]

same can happen too you^^

[grim mason]

i have those turned off

[royal lantern]

rng dodge on the soak bullet on the TD endboss is the bes thing that can happen lel

[balmy condor]

you have what turned off

[grim mason]

I have odge parry misses turned of i guess

[balmy condor]

that's not something you can turn off

[dry atlas]

The combat text

[balmy condor]

that just exists

oh

combat text

[grim mason]

yeah I am saying I just never noticed the misses cuz I have the text turned off

[balmy condor]

I forget combat text exists tbh

[grim mason]

some reason I didnt think we wtill missed

[royal lantern]

i mean, dodge/parry can only happen when you hit stuff from the front

except OH autoattacks

wich have a 25%(?) chance by default too miss

[fleet whale]

i think any auto attack can miss but i'm not sure

[balmy condor]

yeah I think that's all autos

[strange python]

Same whispyr. I get PTSD when I hear "I CANT ATTACK THAT YET" 🤢

[balmy condor]

and 25% seems fairly high

but idk the numbers on that

[fleet whale]

you can just look at any damage meter

you'll see that you'll miss a lot of autos

[balmy condor]

yeah

I just don't give enough of a fuck tbh

if I miss I miss

ya know

[verbal mantle]

i have error sound quotes enabled

noshame

[fleet whale]

so do i lol

[strange python]

Y'all don't get irritated

[royal lantern]

same

[strange python]

When you hear the "I can't attack that target yet"

[dry atlas]

No lol

[royal lantern]

wanna hear that cute vulpera voice

[fleet whale]

not really

[grim mason]

that shit be mad annpoying

[verbal mantle]

i dont even hear it now

[balmy condor]

I turned that all off

[fleet whale]

was only irritated when he would keep saying "not enough energy"

[strange python]

I play vulpera lmao thats the thing but oml it's annoying

[fleet whale]

but blizz removed that thank god

[royal lantern]

it helps beeing in range, just saying

[fleet whale]

plus male nelves voice is so low

i don't really notice it most of the time

[balmy condor]

did you just say

Nelf

[fleet whale]

yeah

[royal lantern]

elf

🤢

[dry atlas]

Male and nelf in the same sentence

Curious

[fleet whale]

i like how male nelves look

[balmy condor]

alliance

curious

[dry atlas]

Indeed

[fleet whale]

horde races are ugly

except blood elves

[royal lantern]

people that play elves in fantasy games need too get their balls cut off, ngl

[verbal mantle]

Male blood elf here 🙂

[strange python]

Vulpera says hi 😍

[fleet whale]

it's a fantasy game

i'll play whatever the hell iwant

[grim mason]

ORC master race

[fleet whale]

orc smell bad

[dry atlas]

Ok bushwhacker

[fleet whale]

need deodorant

[royal lantern]

i didnt unlock wow VR yet too smell the races

[balmy condor]

aight aight aight

[strange python]

Ew y'all like stormwind. I could never play alliance again.

[balmy condor]

back to sin

[strange python]

Ok ok ok :)

all races are beautiful

[fleet whale]

nightborne is the worst race

i'll end it there

[royal lantern]

all races are beautiful
@strange python except the nightborne player modle

thats an abomination lel

[strange python]

they have inner beauty

But I do notice that your autos can miss a lot

But I feel that applies to almost every class.

[balmy condor]

yep

[strange python]

yes and even more so to those that dual wield

[fleet whale]

for dual wielders it happens more

[dry atlas]

The punishment for dual wielding is missing a bit more often

[fleet whale]

what if blizz

made two handed weapons an option for rogues

[balmy condor]

that's a warrior

[strange python]

polearms? yes please

[dry atlas]

Then we would just be fury warriors

[strange python]

plus, i want a combat pet

[balmy condor]

that's a monk

[strange python]

and wear mail armor

[balmy condor]

thats survival

[strange python]

sssh lets call it überlebens schurke

Lol rogue is basically a sneaky warrior. Jk jk. But ya missing is a bit annoying.

[royal lantern]

nah

outlaw is a sneaky fury warrior

[strange python]

Did you just say mail? 🤢

[royal lantern]

sin and sub are special

[fleet whale]

sub rogue can be the two handed spec

to fulfill the ninja fantasy

[dry atlas]

Ninjas are stupid and overused

[royal lantern]

yes, and sprint gives you the naruto run

so i have more reasons too never play sub

[fleet whale]

i bet you rogues would get a lot more players though

[strange python]

I mean isnt rogue one of the most played classes anyway?

For melee at least

[fleet whale]

i work at a library

naruto and boruto books are ultra popular

[balmy condor]

#wow-general

[strange python]

thats not how you get mod whyspirprpr

[royal lantern]

@strange python rogue is litearlly 1 of the least played classes in the entire game

like

[balmy condor]

I don't want it

I have notifications on

shut it

[strange python]

thats a you problem tbh

[royal lantern]

it battles with monk and warlock with the last 3 places for LEAT played class lel

[strange python]

HUH... This is news to me...

[royal lantern]

most played class is always switching bettwen warrior/druid/paladin/hunter

[fleet whale]

it seems like rogues are popular cause of M+ and raiding at high levels

but overall they are actually quite low

[royal lantern]

rogue is a "popular" endgame player class

[balmy condor]

but have you considered

[strange python]

In the overall population. Oh ok makes sense.

[balmy condor]

that this isn't the channel

[royal lantern]

but most people never do that stuff

the normal wow player does lfr or normal raids at best

[vestal wren]

rogue in general has decent represenation

[royal lantern]

and plays a paladin cus he wants too be a shiny kinght in armor

[balmy condor]

fuu don't enable them

[dry atlas]

"guys stop posting memes in general"

[strange python]

Ok let's bring it back to sin

[delicate dagger]

I just wanna play sin lol, are they undertuned or is sub just overtuned?

[balmy condor]

who knows

[strange python]

Um both?

[dry atlas]

Its fine

[balmy condor]

sin is undertuned for sure

[dry atlas]

Just play it if you enjoy it

[balmy condor]

but we don't know if sub is tuned properly

or overtuned

unless we magically figured out blizzards tuning goal

[delicate dagger]

makes sense

[vestal wren]

subtlety does not look overtuned on beta

[delicate dagger]

I might just play it anyway just cause I love it so much

[vestal wren]

so i would say sub and outlaw are decently balanced

and sin is undertuned

[grim mason]

The generation of kidds who are adults now that grew up on Naruto learned valuable lessons from that show, if you think about it

[delicate dagger]

I'm just hoping for some more sin tuning before live

[royal lantern]

tuning on beta is just weird, like fuu said

[strange python]

But even then overall sin is looking good right?

[fleet whale]

as of now not really tbh

[royal lantern]

its ofc playable

just not the best option

[vestal wren]

there is no reason to play assassination if tuning stays like is

[fleet whale]

unless if you really like it

[vestal wren]

but there is no reason to assume that tuning stays like this

[delicate dagger]

do they usually do a big tuning patch right before live?

I can't remember lol

[balmy condor]

ye

and heroic week tuning

is usually big

[prisma yoke]

the "helping the frenchie"-episode earlier was pretty wholesome. i don't want to incite any spec animosity, but it seems #assassination is much more relaxed and calm compared to other channels.
must be because of the low APM playstyle...

[strange python]

Oh ok so no panicking yet lol

[balmy condor]

not panicking at all

[vestal wren]

the channel is less active because of tuning

[balmy condor]

spec tuning is nowhere close to done

[delicate dagger]

that is good to hear

[strange python]

Well being panicked and being assasin don't mix :).

[vestal wren]

we will see tuning on beta and after release

so yes, current tuning doesn't rly say a lot

[royal lantern]

this channel will change when sl is out

no matter what will happen

[strange python]

foreverguy not being in here helps

Oo

[prisma yoke]

i didnt mean "chill" because of less lines of chat, but they way on how the different parties interacted with each other was "calm"

[royal lantern]

either you will have people complaining that its undertuned, or people will complain that they are F O R C E D too play assassination

the world starts and ends with people complaining about stuff

[strange python]

Forced is a bit harsh 🥺

[balmy condor]

it'll probably be fine

I hope at least

[grim mason]

ORC is master race

lil reminder, oh were you discussing something important ♥♥☺

I need some extra Eyes!!! https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/4YfiXGyd1pAsW6pz6bT9oB

[balmy condor]

for?

[grim mason]

top gear in bags! ^^

so I can vendor the rest

[strange python]

what are you simming 3 targets for?

[balmy condor]

^

[grim mason]

M+

[balmy condor]

that's a pretty bad way to go about that

[grim mason]

Dslice?

[balmy condor]

ye

[grim mason]

hmm

[balmy condor]

or like 5 target 1 min

if you're a weirdo

[frail birch]

!guide

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide

[grim mason]

don't you dare

actually that was an accident on 3 mobs

its what they say in the mage discord for M+

[balmy condor]

yeah

that's the mage discord

[grim mason]

just never changed it

[balmy condor]

our dslice implementation is pretty strong

not sure about them

[vestal wren]

if the apl supports raid events and multiple targets its good to go for dungeon slice

dungeon slice is valuable for rogue and feral because its he only fight type that allowes restealths

[balmy condor]

^

[grim mason]

I know this, 😦

I left it on by accident, ORC rule!

I been on frost all prepatch pretty much

[vestal wren]

you can also look at #tc-updates, koji did post a bit about dungeon slice

[grim mason]

@vestal wren fight me bro, infront Org now!

☻☻☻☻♥☺☺

[spring sparrow]

Question about Subterfuge - On myopener, I'm stealthed. I garrote, but then I just feel like I'm sitting around waiting to come out of stealth so I begin my rotation. Am I supposed to be doing something else in this 3 second window?

[balmy condor]

cast other abilities

[spring sparrow]

So maybe garrote, then Ambush?

[balmy condor]

mutilate and slice are good options

[spring sparrow]

ok, ty

[balmy condor]

if you have ss traits, you should gar rup gar

just like in 8.3

[spring sparrow]

I didn't play 8.3. I'm new to rogue and returning from Legion

[balmy condor]

aha

[spring sparrow]

ss traits?

[balmy condor]

shrouded suffocation

not something to worry about for shadowlands

[spring sparrow]

ok

[balmy condor]

in shadowlands you'd just garrote slice mut

[spring sparrow]

no ambush?

[balmy condor]

not in opener most likely, no

depends on how final tuning ends up

like in prepatch atm we don't press ambush at all

[spring sparrow]

cool, appreciate it.

[balmy condor]

yup yup

[main bronze]

you should try to use 2 garrotes and ruptures in your opener for your pandemic timer, it adds a few extra seconds on both bleeds

[balmy condor]

not without ss traits

and also no reason to pandemic rupture without running exsang

[main bronze]

yea i meant for now if you play the garrote build,
adding a few secs in your rupture in your opener is not bad at all, at least for m+ in boss encounters

[balmy condor]

maybe I'm misunderstanding what you're saying then

but if we're talking like hard pandemicing rupture like we did with exsang

that's very incorrect

[fleet whale]

I wish our level 45 and level 50 talent rows were better designed

[royal lantern]

we all do

i hoped for a venomrush rework

but no

dead talent for 2expacs in a row now

[fleet whale]

exsang is dead too

last talent row is lame af

[grim mason]

Orc master race

[broken swift]

on the notes from the most recent spell changes on the shadowlands beta, are they taking away the toxic blade effect from shiv?

[balmy condor]

No

It’s just a datamine error

Works exactly the same

[restive night]

is assa better than sub right now¿

[fleet whale]

as of now no

[signal kayak]

HOLD UP. I just looked at pins. Necrolord is good for m+ now?

last I checked WH was still showing kyrian best for ST and m+ what I miss?

[fleet whale]

Pelegos got a small nerf

one of Niya's traits got improved

and necro is kind of old news at this point, but one of their soulbinds were improved too

so right now Night Fae is best in ST while also being "good" in M+

[signal kayak]

so for m+ if im trying to min/max necrolord is the way to go as sin rogue...or does it even friggin matter at this point?

[fleet whale]

If you are trying to min max M+, atm i wouldn't choose sin

[signal kayak]

well min/max as sin...im not rolling other spec...I love sin

[fleet whale]

I mean i guess? right now Night fae is simming highest in ST

[balmy condor]

If you’re min/maxing as sin you would go necro or night fae depending on what your push group needs

[fleet whale]

while just being a whopping 5 dps behind in Dungeon slice

plus there are other factors to consider in M+ since certain covenants will give your group certain perks

[signal kayak]

ok...Ill just read the two again and see what I like.

I mean my needs are pumping as good dps as I can as sin..I wont have a solid group that Ill always be pushing M+...Ill be pugging more than anything....but I want to push 15-20 in keys....with an occasional hero/mythic raid as my buddy is gm in a guild that will be pushing CE...at least in the 1st tier anyways...

[balmy condor]

Then it won’t matter :P

You won’t notice a difference between night fae and necro

[signal kayak]

so go with what I like then cause I originally liked night fae anyways

[balmy condor]

Yup

[low girder]

night fae gangggggggg

[spring sparrow]

Is it typical in this spec to be garbage on trash but pretty decent on bosses?

[grizzled jay]

its the entire purpose of the spec yes

[gray fjord]

Without any borrowed powers, yeah assassination is not exactly a powerhouse of AoE xD

[spring sparrow]

ok, cool. hahaha. I'm new to rogue and been trying stuff out. I have the most experience with outlaw, but wanted to up my game. I thought for a second I was going to be kicked from that group because I was lower than the healer in DPS somehow... but then on the first boss I was 2nd place in dps.

[gray fjord]

Assassination in PrePatch isn't like super bad due to azerite powers and essences and such

[spring sparrow]

wonder how the specs will line up once SL comes out

[gray fjord]

But without the borrowed powers its not looking very good, so I hope that will change prior to launch

Sorry kinda debilitated more than normal so trying to type what I can. ^^;

[spring sparrow]

all good

[grizzled jay]

Sin is just a numbers game. But the thing about a pure dps class is that Blizzard isn't 100% concerned with making sure all 3 specs are 'balanced' with each other, more they just want to make sure at least 1 spec is good in some aspect of the game.

[manic pebble]

Is Ass rogue still good pre-patch?

stopped playing for 4 months

[balmy condor]

yeah its fine in prepatch

[manic pebble]

I heard subtlety is better than ass rogue now

is that true tho

[balmy condor]

single target yes

[manic pebble]

ah

I never touch subtlety before, guess I have a lot to learn

[hasty kraken]

Does anyone know if garrote (+subterfuge) is a different spell ID? I'm looking for a way to see the difference for my weakaura.

[balmy condor]

same id

you have to track via spell cast conditions or custom code

[hasty kraken]

ok ill look into, thanks

[tiny parrot]

is it just me or sin feel really clunky in pre patch?

their single target is just terrible

[balmy condor]

just you

[tiny parrot]

even my sub rogue can pull 4k single with m+ gear

[balmy condor]

so is your complaint that its clunky

or that its worse single target

[tiny parrot]

that i'm terrible at playing sub

[balmy condor]

dunno

sin is weaker single target

but its in no way bad

[tiny parrot]

i don't really have any problem in pooling energy for sin last patch

[balmy condor]

I mean

I hope not

[tiny parrot]

this time technically you have 3 dots/buff to keep up

[balmy condor]

pooling isn't really something to worry about anyway

hasn't been for years

but yeah, unsure why its not working for you

[tiny parrot]

like i spend half of the time reapplying dots and slice and dice

especially slice

never had this problem in 8.3, and i play max crit/vers 8.3 anw

[balmy condor]

half time reapplying things sounds pretty normal

slice is like 50 seconds though, that shouldn't be a problem

are you using lucid dreams?

[tiny parrot]

blood major

lucid minor ofc

[balmy condor]

ye seems fine

[tiny parrot]

so i assume we always want to reapply slice at 5cb?

[balmy condor]

all finishers are 4-5

5-6 was for DS

[tiny parrot]

yep maybe i just need to get use to it lol.

[balmy condor]

ye

this is actually still faster than normal sin

8.3 was crazy

even with a crit build

getting 4cp every mut

[half comet]

Can you guys send me your hotbars? i need ideas

[icy ember]

yo sup w/sin lately, didn't it get a buff to shiv

[placid dawn]

shiv is useless in prepatch

[low girder]

Also that wasn't a buff, that was a datamining error

Permanent shiv would be pretty nuts

[icy ember]

sin bruh

[vestal wren]

With Bis setup (default is with legendary item):

dungeon slice has korayn as #1 because of first strike, i forgot about it but had someone luckily remind me 🙂

[manic pebble]

Can you guys send me your hotbars? i need ideas
@half comet here

@half comet while stealth

before pre-patch btw

[vestal wren]

soulbinds:

[fleet whale]

i think it kind of sucks that you only get one potency conduit in some of those trees tbh

if following the best path

[grizzled jay]

is Lethal Poison better than the free Haste for Mikanikos in M+? 🤔

for a spec like sin, opening with 3x Garrote + CT and having that high haste to me would seem strong

[fleet whale]

idk, i thought haste really isn't desired in M+ usually

[grizzled jay]

not as a stat you'd stack, but free haste in the opener is still good

[jaunty arrow]

I dont think u will need haste

[dusky plinth]

Wasnt there a guide on how to use snd in m+? like at how many targets do I just neglect it etc.

[balmy condor]

sims cast until 6

but the loss from maintaining higher than that is honestly negligible

[dusky plinth]

ah alright thanks 🙂

[neat totem]

5k new messages since I was last here

figures

[balmy condor]

So like, 2-3 expansions

[neat totem]

not even close

[balmy condor]

HIGHER?

5?

[neat totem]

Naw its only been like 4 months

lol

[clear zealot]

is shiv gonna be part of our rotation once sl comes out?

[royal lantern]

yes

its basicly toxicblade

[clear zealot]

thanks, another q: if on 3cp in SL are we going to shiv or mut

[balmy condor]

Yes

Doesn’t really matter

But most likely shiv into envenom in that situation

Shiv is going to be on cooldown

Just like toxic blade

Regardless of cp or energy

[clear zealot]

aight thanks

[sage sierra]

hello guys

[balmy condor]

Hi there

[vale quest]

so in shady lands, we do shiv in rotation?

nvmind someone just answered that above me

nice

now just for them to replace SND with Kingsbane , and we're gold

[low girder]

not gonna happen lol

[vale quest]

Dang

[fleet whale]

i wish something like that would happen

[reef parcel]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination WA's:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)

[drifting cosmos]

Why you no like snd it's big white dmg

Which legendary to use in m+?

[balmy condor]

zoldyck

[grizzled jay]

Potentially a generic

[fleet whale]

wasn't eonar changed

[grizzled jay]

yah

i think the one that procs can be potentially good, unsure if it's been sim'd literally at all

the one that chain lightnings between you and someone else who has the same legendary

[drifting cosmos]

Oh I thought the one with T21 effect would shine in m+

[balmy condor]

its okay

but you don't really need the energy when you're already multi-dotting

[drifting cosmos]

Hmmmm and there is snd true

[nimble garnet]

whats assa convenant? necrolorrd?

[fair rain]

Disgusting

[fleet whale]

i guess you're not a night fae fan

[balmy condor]

If necro were a little closer in single target, I’d play necro in a heart beat

4% is a little sadge to me

[strange python]

So we play night fae now?

[balmy condor]

Yes

[fleet whale]

or not, it's not like gonna be that large of a deal if you decide not to

[low girder]

Night fae

[fair rain]

Yay I always wanted to play night fae

[strange python]

Both night fae abilities are nice, so i like

[drifting cosmos]

What's night Fae ability like?

Is that the one with another invisi?

Wait nvm found it

The set is really ugly rip

[bright lintel]

but at least we get free materials

[royal lantern]

wait, people really look at the shity set you wont even use cus you actually raid?

the sets are the last thing i care about, thats like saying you dont play a class back in legion cus you didnt like the orderhall set

[shadow tulip]

Wellllll

DPS > Tmog

But I do care about the mog sets of emissaries

And Tryan in the order hall sets, you could not chose, here you can.

[royal lantern]

then pick w/e you like

like

jesus i said that in all 3 channels now

people think way too deep into covenant choices

[shadow tulip]

I'm not trying to pick a fight with you, bro

[royal lantern]

the differences are allready not that big in sims, and we dont play as clean as the simulation does

no, you fight me now

1v1

no biting

[shadow tulip]

But I agree, that the Nfae mog set is hideous

[royal lantern]

https://tenor.com/view/simpsons-maggie-mad-angry-fight-gif-4480744

[shadow tulip]

All of 'em, imo

Except the plates?

[royal lantern]

opinions are opinions

i dont like any of the covenant sets

all look like shit imo

[shadow tulip]

Not amazing, yea

IMO they put in more effort to the shop mog

That faerie one

[royal lantern]

the evil evil EVIL shop mog

was supposed too be the blizzcon reward for this year

[shadow tulip]

Yea

I was saying that too

It's so obvious

[royal lantern]

+how did they put effort in it when its litearlly a meme set that is supposed too look ridicolous

when normal sets are supposed too actually look good

[shadow tulip]

I got so tilted when ppl go ranting about it being on the shop

Like, bro!

It was datamined not long after last blizzcon

You don't need to be Einstein to put 1 and 1 together

[royal lantern]

almost like the internet is full of clueless people that just want too be angry about stuff without thinking about it for 2seconds ^^

you can set a clock for the next outrage

cus immagine

[shadow tulip]

https://tenor.com/view/batman-thinking-contemplating-pondering-chin-gif-4540781

Now that you mention it

[royal lantern]

there will be another 6month sub reward in

gasp

6months

😮

[shadow tulip]

And Blizzconline is FFA anyway

And they still complain

[halcyon oak]

True but tbf it probably took the place of a free mount

The leather castle nathria set looks dope

[somber bison]

Oh wow its pixie rogues now

[grizzled jay]

nah, still Necro baby

[royal lantern]

everytime people say nightfae=fairys

im not sure if trolling or just no clue lel

[grizzled jay]

just a meme

[royal lantern]

bruh

for 99%it isnt

cus they dont know what fae means/is lel

[grim jay]

well if they google "fae" and the first thing that pops into your eyes is an article about fairy

its mostly people jumping on the hatetrain for something

same as it was with ER

[royal lantern]

the best thing too not like night fae is

they turned a intersting ability into a "high dmg" dot with a "stealth proc" you dont really use after it

[grim jay]

I tbf dont care much about the main ability as it stands now, nor the theme of the covenant.
the only thing I dont like on some is the utility ability, namely on night fae and necro

the only thing I would wish for would be a clear choice I can sit comfy on while playing sin and sub

[subtle drift]

Clearly not a fairy...

Looks 100% like an evil rogue

[bleak glacier]

hippy-esque

[halcyon oak]

Don't forget your backpack

[subtle drift]

This tint is kinda okay i guess.

For a druid..

[fleet whale]

the dark kyrian leather set actually doesn't look too bad for rogues

[left abyss]

is Shiv used in the rotation or just mainly as a ST slow?

[balmy condor]

will be in shadowlands

not right now

[left abyss]

Cheers

[fleet whale]

sadly idk how much we'll be able to use it to dispell enrages

but it may not be that big of a deal i guess

also i wish shiv would get some sort of animation...

[left abyss]

yea does look pretty shit, id rather they just make Toxic blade baseline

[balmy condor]

you're in luck

[fleet whale]

that's what they should have done tbh

[balmy condor]

that's what shiv is

[fleet whale]

yeah, but they could've made actual tb baseline

and keep shiv for utility

[left abyss]

the animation doesnt fit anything else we are doing

havent seen the covanent spells tho

[fleet whale]

it doesn't have an animation

and it uses the old school backstab sound effect

[vale quest]

so was sin good in the last day of beta

[balmy condor]

wdym

[fleet whale]

It's currently the lowest tuned rogue spec

[balmy condor]

^

[fleet whale]

and i can't remember bfa beta tuning

I don't think it was this low relatively speaking

[vale quest]

fuck

i meant SL

[grizzled jay]

so did we

[cosmic mica]

i just hope Seli will still play assa regardless so i can copy him later

from what i saw on top of being undertuned, it also feels super slow and boring

[grizzled jay]

They put everyone's Aura back to 0, so they will probably just aura buff Sin

+10% Aura buff for the whole spec or something

The spec plays functionally fine, the talents need a little work but we wouldn't get full talent reworks til 10.0 anyways, so all it needs atm is just a flat Aura buff

[vale quest]

So what melee specs are good in SL? I dont like sub or outlaw so no rogue for me then.

[grizzled jay]

Outlaw is good in SL

[balmy condor]

he literally specified not outlaw

[cosmic mica]

The spec plays functionally fine, the talents need a little work but we wouldn't get full talent reworks til 10.0 anyways, so all it needs atm is just a flat Aura buff
@grizzled jay I guess. But SnD feels unnecessary and leggos nerfed. There is still zoldyck but thats the the most boring pick imo. Wish we had legion set leggo baseline and problem fixed ?

Also why Spike is bad atm? It seems like a fun ability, pretty much never ending bleed? (guess it does not get the value for energy regen tho)

[balmy condor]

got nerfed

just numbers

[cosmic mica]

fml

[grizzled jay]

Spike is fine in multi-target boss cleave

[cosmic mica]

so question is are you guys gonna play Assa then?

[balmy condor]

I am

[cosmic mica]

Given current state of the spec persists

[balmy condor]

well

[bright lintel]

yeah

[grizzled jay]

I'll probably end up Outlaw tbh

[balmy condor]

if its still 10% behind

I'll play sub

but I'm a never-outlaw guy

so its either one of those for me

I would prefer sin

[bright lintel]

I am unable to increase my apm to 41, so I am forced into sin

[balmy condor]

ah yes

the struggle

[cosmic mica]

Hate both tbh. I am leaning towards Outlaw just because swords but ye. Did not expect to not be able to play Assa on launch.

[bright lintel]

old man hands, what can I say

[cosmic mica]

tru

[grizzled jay]

Outlaw so it's easier to get weapons from M+ lol

[bright lintel]

jokes aside, since I have to compete for my spot against other rogues in the guild I'll play whatever gives me an edge

[cosmic mica]

Well Sub it is the 4 you

[grizzled jay]

i'm the only Rogue in my entire guild lol

[bright lintel]

good on you

hoping for another round of balancing so that nightfae goes down again ... simp covenant

[cosmic mica]

hol up

nightfae is the best one ?

[balmy condor]

for sin atm yes

[cosmic mica]

[balmy condor]

pelagos nerfs came through

[grizzled jay]

and Niya got buffed

Korayn got buffed in AoE too

[bright lintel]

at least for torghast sin was fine. The one spec I didn't want to kms while in it

[cosmic mica]

Are we still not able to really switch on demand?

Specs + all the things related

[grizzled jay]

you can switch on demand you just would need to use Conduit Stamina for your 1 or 2 Potency slots

But if you wanted to, say, Sin in Raid and Outlaw in M+ you can set up 2 Soulbinds so you don't need to do any Conduit swapping

[balmy condor]

yeah, you can have different trees

there's a good chance that it won't be optimal

but if you're okay being behind like 2% because you're multi-speccing

seems good enough

[bright lintel]

and in most cases the 2% won't be the deciding factor for success or failure

[strange python]

Exactly

Your guild must have a lot of rogues lol. Well mine is a casual guild but I don't see many rogues.

[bright lintel]

2 questions btw:

1st did the change to venom rush help the talent in any way shape or form

2nd nightstalker doesn't apply to the 2nd sepsis effect right? (The stealth ability)

[balmy condor]

yes, it's still worse than alacrity

and sepsis got changed

[bright lintel]

yeah you can now use one stealth ability, but I assume the 25 row has no effect on it now, correct?

[balmy condor]

so it doesn't give you any bonuses from stealths

just the ability to use stealth abilities

which is uh

ambush

and some niche CC that won't really have any impact on the game

[bright lintel]

alright cheers

[balmy condor]

think of it just like a shadow dance for 1 ability

[bright lintel]

y figured as much, since garrote wasn't empowered when I used it

[balmy condor]

yup

[vale quest]

so if i only really play WoW sometimes and mostly only like Sin, no point in getting SL?

[balmy condor]

I mean, if you only play wow sometimes, balancing doesn't affect you

if you enjoy it, play it

[bright lintel]

^

[balmy condor]

if you don't, don't

[vale quest]

i dont really like being weak in any game

[balmy condor]

weak is relative though

to those who play around you

10% sim dps isn't 10% worse

[vale quest]

for m+ will it be as bad as affliction was in BFA

like useless for the entire expansion

[balmy condor]

probably not, since it's a rogue

[vale quest]

true

[balmy condor]

you can still clear 20's with your friends as sin

[bright lintel]

also let's face it most groups don't ask for your spec or even know how strong your spec performs in comparison

[grizzled jay]

well except bfa sub

[vale quest]

yeah thats cool but being rekt by the tank like Aff isn't fun either

as long as the aoe is okay

[balmy condor]

sub rogues could still do 20's in bfa

were they bad, yes

but what content are you doing

and with who

[vale quest]

Don't want to be low on meters. being able to do the dungeon is not the issue

[balmy condor]

well then we're back to with who

a good sub rogue can top meters in a random heroic prog guild

[vale quest]

on beta is the aoe of sin okay atm?

[balmy condor]

the cleave is good

the aoe less so

[fiery shell]

hoping they consider tweaking sin before the launch. Maintaining the rotation as is makes it feel like any envenoms that you get are at the whims of procs that add free combo points

its so close to being like MoP era crisp. just let envenom refresh/add time to snd

[pliant apex]

you do not cast vendetta before garrote,slice and rupture are up right

in any circumstance? as a general rule?

[balmy condor]

yeah

[pliant apex]

ty whisp again ! its you

how you today

[balmy condor]

fine thanks :)

[bleak glacier]

when are we supposed to pop snd?

[fiery shell]

bleeds are currently the priority followed by snd followed by envenom

[balmy condor]

False

Snd takes prio over bleeds

Pandemic timers are 0.3*duration

Snd depends on combo points

[nimble garnet]

wait why would snd take prio to bleeds?

[low girder]

because it does more damage

[deft tangle]

Because otherwise u run out of time to envenom...it smoothens the rotation a bit but snd us awkward anyway

[nimble garnet]

Because otherwise u run out of time to envenom...it smoothens the rotation a bit but snd us awkward anyway
@deft tangle what u mean run out of time to envenom?

[deft tangle]

Shorter window for envenoms before bleeds need refreshing

[balmy condor]

Huh?

[low girder]

yeah idk what that explanation is

[balmy condor]

Yeah I’m confused

[low girder]

it takes priority because snd is a ridiculous amount of dmg

[balmy condor]

You literally only prioritize it because more damage means more priority

[deft tangle]

Correct

[balmy condor]

Not some weird maintenance something bleed whatever

Envenom windows

Not sure what that’s about

[deft tangle]

You literally are able to do more envenoms inbetween your bleeds maintenance if you cast snd before bleeds?

[balmy condor]

You cast the same amount of envenoms in both situations

Cause you’re maintaining everything

You don’t lose downtime on rupture just because you cast snd first

[deft tangle]

No you dont lose rupt

[balmy condor]

Well if you don’t lose rupture, then the only other place those cp can go is envenom

[deft tangle]

Thats the idea

[low girder]

the point is doing either order doesn't net you more CPs

[balmy condor]

Yeah

[low girder]

it's the same regardless

[balmy condor]

You have the same uptime, and the same cp, and the same envenoms, which is the same uptime

[deft tangle]

No it gives u more time for envenoms inbetween ripts because snd "dot" is longer

[balmy condor]

What

It’s the same uptime

You’re casting the same amount of snd’s

As long as you’re refreshing according to pandemic timers

[deft tangle]

From rupt to rupt yes but u dont spend 5 co inbetween for snd??

[balmy condor]

You’re not getting more or less anything

I don’t get the question, but you use finishers at 4

[deft tangle]

Yes m8 4-5 cp...

[balmy condor]

Okay let’s try an example

I cast slice, rupture, then 3 envenoms or whatever

Now I need to refresh rupture

[deft tangle]

Ok

[balmy condor]

I cast 3 more envenoms

Now I need to refresh slice, and rupture

[deft tangle]

No need to go further

[balmy condor]

Huh

[deft tangle]

Lets say u casted rupt garrote and then snd

Do u have the same time to cast envenoms??

Before rupt needs refresh?

[balmy condor]

But... it doesn’t matter

You’re counting envenoms between ruptures

And I don’t understand why

Let’s say you can cast 4 finishers, between each rupture

So you rupture, 4 finishers, rupture

[deft tangle]

Not really...we were just talking why snd is better prior to bleeds...

[balmy condor]

You’re telling me

Rupture snd envenom x3 rupture

Is worse than rupture envenom x3 snd rupture

[deft tangle]

In first case u cast 4 finishers magically ?

Forget it didnt see snd🤪

But yes the longer u delay snd in your rotation the worst it gets as per damage output

[balmy condor]

It doesn’t matter when you refresh things because you’re casting the same amount of them regardless of order, as long as they’re still in pandemic times

But given the option of casting snd or rupture

After downtime for example

You cast snd first

[deft tangle]

We agree

[balmy condor]

Okay

I still don’t get the rupture timing argument then

[deft tangle]

Its not about ruptures

Its about smoother rotation

Maybe its just my experience but i have more envenom dmg

When snd-rupt than the other way

[balmy condor]

[grizzled jay]

It doesn't matter what % of your damage each ability does, all that matters is your total dps

[balmy condor]

That’s literally just not how it works

[deft tangle]

Ok guys

[balmy condor]

If anything, casting rupture first will give you more envenom damage cause of the extra 5 energy or whatever

Marginal obviously

But you’re casting the same amount of envenoms

Both ways

[deft tangle]

If from time a to time b you are able to generate lets say 3 finishers

Why spend 1 in snd and not envenom?

Dont i throw more envenoms if snd is already up?

[balmy condor]

Because you have to refresh it already

Eventually you have to refresh snd

[deft tangle]

Yes and its a longer time than rupt

[balmy condor]

That’s irrelevant

[deft tangle]

Its longer than point a and b

[balmy condor]

That’s also irrelevant

[deft tangle]

Lolwut ok gn

[balmy condor]

You’re comparing a time shorter than the time snd takes

How does that make any sense

[deft tangle]

Ok

[balmy condor]

If you want a time a to b

Let’s say 5 minutes

What’s the argument then

Or even 1 minute

[deft tangle]

We just have to juggle our finishers for optimal output...and that comes from snd-bleeds-envenoms inbetween before refreshing ...

Atm

[balmy condor]

Correct

That part we agree on

[deft tangle]

I know^^

😁

[fleet whale]

If you are talking about the opener, SND is ideal to apply first, though i don't think the dps difference would be that noticeable

if you apply rupture first

[balmy condor]

My problem is that you’re telling me that we get more envenom damage from going snd-bleeds

Which doesn’t make any sense

And I’m trying to understand how you can think that

[fleet whale]

well if we had cut to the chase again

[balmy condor]

We don’t

[fleet whale]

then it would be 100% obvious to put up snd first lol

[deft tangle]

So you dont get more envenom casts between refreshing ruptures if u have snd already up until snd itself needs refreshing?

[balmy condor]

If snd is already up, you get the same amount of envenoms between ruptures, yes

[grizzled jay]

wonder what the ideal opener for NF is I should go test

Initial thoughts are Garrote -> Ambush -> SnD -> Sepsis -> Shiv -> Rupture

[verbal mantle]

[fleet whale]

a 1 cp rupture?

[grizzled jay]

Sepsis generates a CP

[fleet whale]

a 2 cp rupture?

[grizzled jay]

yah

we use a 3cp rup in the opener rn lol

with SS

[fleet whale]

it's a shame in the niya tree, that we can't get 2 potency conduits in the ideal path

would love to use WPS and the sepsis conduit

[grizzled jay]

def

you can do it for M+ at least

thought you'd probably just take Katar

[fleet whale]

WPS and sepsis conduit

would give sin some nasty opener burst

i assume zoldyck doesn't improve sepsis

[grizzled jay]

i haven't tested actually, probably could rq

[fleet whale]

cause imagine that execute

[nimble garnet]

id like to know how doombladee legendary compares and if it makes the * bleed* concept and evenom dmg any good

[grizzled jay]

compares to what

[nimble garnet]

to other leggos

[grizzled jay]

we have pins

[fleet whale]

it wouldn't make exsang viable if that's what you are wondering

[nimble garnet]

eexasng not really imprt to it tbh

but rather the envenom dmg

20% increase

[fleet whale]

but i would imagine you would run WPS conduit with it too

[grizzled jay]

pins

[nimble garnet]

thanks tmb

[grizzled jay]

control for Sepsis (with Conduit). Checking Zoldyck now.

doesn't appear to work

[fleet whale]

damn

would be like soul reap on steroids, on a longer cd

if it did

but i guess it makes sense, it would probably make sin way too good in execute

[grizzled jay]

oh they updated icons for Conduits

Katar uses Cobra Shot

[fleet whale]

yeah, and WPS uses the TB icon

[grizzled jay]

well that was probably always gonna happen. it's a nice homage at least.

[fleet whale]

not that the TB animation was anything special.. i wish shiv used that animation

considering shiv right now doesn't really have one

[serene basin]

uh, guys, hi

how many legendaries are we goingo to use:

like legion?

2 at the same time

[balmy condor]

1 to start

Maybe 2 later we don’t know

[low girder]

don't plan on a second until something becomes official

afaik there's been no indication on beta of allowing another leggo

[fallow otter]

They battling to balance one

Don't ask them to do 2

[fiery shell]

Played some sub rogue for a day or two to sorta "reset" my muscle memory from 8.3 to 9.0 on assassination rogue. My original complaints about the envenom feeling a bit more stressful to weave in stand, but I suspect the shadowlands 60 stuff will smooth it out a bit.

[frigid kestrel]

What’s Fae’s ability again. Been checked out of WoW for like 2 weeks.

[low girder]

they changed it slightly, but sepsis

but now instead of a vanish at the end it's one use of a stealth ability

[frigid kestrel]

Does it allow for 3 Garrotes?

Or at least proc the empowered one?

[low girder]

just 1, and no empower

[frigid kestrel]

Soooo it’s just a free ambush then?

[low girder]

pretty much

[frigid kestrel]

Meh, almost think that vanishing would be better. Gonna have to hop on beta and see what’s going on.

[low girder]

dot hits hard

[frigid kestrel]

Ahh the dot itself is strong then

[low girder]

but most of the M+ value is carried by the soulbind

[frigid kestrel]

Gotcha

[low girder]

or well it might allow garrote to not go on cd

idk for sure though

thinking about it. i don't have beta though.

[balmy condor]

Does not

The garrote cd is tied to subterfuge

And you don’t get subterfuge

[low girder]

oh, for some reason i had it in my head the no CD was in the base spell

lol

guess that happens when you play subt so long 🙃

[balmy condor]

[shadow tulip]

Subterfuge is bis

Casting mounts doesn't break stealth

[balmy condor]

[shy radish]

using snd break stealth

with subt*

[balmy condor]

I heard they fixed that

[shy radish]

in SL maybe

[pseudo hamlet]

Used SnD yesterday and it did break stealth.

Casting mounts doesn't break stealth
@shadow tulip using PvP net also doesn't break stealth with subterfuge. I know it's not PvP forum, but it's awesome thing when people are flying and suddenly they fall down not know what happened 😛

[grim mason]

I have been crying about SnD breaking stealth all week 😦

Not here but in my M+ parties lol

also quick reminder Orc master race

[vestal wren]

With Bis setup (default is with legendary item):

[warm drift]

So close together

[vestal wren]

soulbinds:

[true ingot]

So what you're saying is.. they've achieved the "within a few percent" goal?

[vestal wren]

kind of ye

[left abyss]

Can you change soulbinds easily or are you locked like Covanents

[vestal wren]

you can change

but changing reuquires quite a bit of effort

[shadow tulip]

@shadow tulip using PvP net also doesn't break stealth with subterfuge. I know it's not PvP forum, but it's awesome thing when people are flying and suddenly they fall down not know what happened 😛
@pseudo hamlet
Oh fuck yea, how many ppl I killed like that...

Can you change soulbinds easily or are you locked like Covanents
@left abyss
I can check for you tomorrow, on duty today.

[twin robin]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination WA's:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)

[faint harness]

@left abyss you can activate a new soulbind in any rested area or with a tome

[urban marsh]

Does Well-placed steel conduit make Shiv a +44% nature damage? (at max rank)

[sage sierra]

hows assassination looking like in SL? I know sub is stronger rn but I prefer the DoT style

for PvP btw

[left abyss]

@faint harness Cheers mate, thought it was gonna be a massive pain like azerite gear, good to know

[hazy crater]

Used SnD yesterday and it did break stealth.
@pseudo hamlet Yes, fixed in SL. Was testing Torgath over the weekend and using Subterfuge Talent and SnD while stealthed kept me in stealth.

[balmy condor]

@urban marsh I believe so