Assassination Guides:
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide
#assassination
prisma monolithBOT
pliant apex
is there a classic wa i can get for assa, like that shows rupture , garrote cd and all?
i had it and then with pre patch it wouldnt work
and luxithos' wa dont have those
royal lantern
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
royal lantern
afenars works great
pliant apex
omg why do they have icons when not in combat
like the wa is always on my screen
my older one used to only display once in combat
dry atlas
you can change that yourself
dry atlas
change the conditions
pliant apex
ok hold on let me try please
dry atlas
i use these and they are hidden out of combat https://wago.io/HyTFFBSV-
pliant apex
ty for being so helpful
wary ice
have yall still been running 3x eb in keys? i cant figure out if i like it or not. i feel like the list of dungeons its less good othan stats in has increased - tanks are pulling much smaller lately in pugs in my experience
civic hatch
@civic hatch make sure you report it has to be a bug because its only the combo of EP and Subterfuge that breaks it. You can use any other combo and it doesn't break stealth. Hopefully if more people report it it'll be fixed.
@marble ruin Ye thanks for the reminder, reported it now
pliant apex
what chnages rotation wise with slice and dice, mut , rupture if 4, mut, garrote and then slice and dice?
?
pliant apex
ahh slice takes precedence over rupture now?
balmy condor
Yes
pliant apex
i mean ma
balmy condor
Ma no SS is mut slice Mut
pliant apex
dam slice changes everything eh
balmy condor
Does it?
You just cast it at the start, and everything else is the same that it’s been forever
pliant apex
but i keep casting it whenever its about to go
over rupture
thatll take some getting used to
balmy condor
Yeah, the pandemic time is like 10 seconds
So it’s mega easy
Should be enough time to cast whatever you want in any order
Just get yourself a weakaura that tracks it all
Ez pz chillington
pliant apex
thanks really helpful whisp
i copied all of what you said
youre so right, once opener is done with cd's , it dont matter what order you refresh in , as long as you do eh
just gota keep looking at wa
balmy condor
pliant apex
oh thats your own wa?
balmy condor
Yup
Got pandemics on everything
If it’s green, you’re good to go, if garrote’s orange, it’s empowered, don’t touch it
balmy condor
Np, it’s not everyone’s cup of tea, but if it works for me, might work for someone else right :)
I think there’s a glow effect on snd though, that shouldn’t be there, might have to update
pliant apex
you must be like a top player, orange parses and stuff eh?
balmy condor
Nah
I’m just a nerd
There’s plenty of rogues in here that wipe the floor with me, nairda and hemo and ryler and rae, mata, stunkei, tyra
Countless great rogues, I ain’t one of those xD
paper hatch
@balmy condor I was referring to the 60 energy you gain over 3 seconds from using vendetta, and if I used Vendetta after having slice and dice up I would utilize the entire Vendetta Window efficiently
from my message yesterday
balmy condor
I don’t remember the full context I’m sorry
But the 60 energy would be there regardless of when you cast stuff
Casting vendetta after having everything up is just more damage in an increased damage window
@pliant apex I’m a purple boy yeah xD maybe the odd orange sometimes. I raid pretty casually honestly. I have a guild where I made my best friends and I would rather play with them than be a top 100 raider
I still do mythic, I’m just not big
gentle locust
if you could ask for one buff for assassination, what would that be ?
rough agate
A insta kill button
nimble tartan
kingsbane back
main warren
increase mutilates damage by a factor of 10 and remove it from gcd
fleet whale
to buff ST: add this interaction for both mut and ambush
when you use mutilate/ambush while envenom buff is up, you deal additional damage as poison damage
buff envenom slightly
This will act both as a buff for assassin
while also being a little more rewarding for better envenom pooling
verbal knot
Hey guys,does anyone know if the assasination rogue hidden artifact appereance is still obtainable?
drifting cloud
it is
verbal knot
Thanks,does the artifact weapon still need to be rank 4 on artifact power in order to get it?
drifting cloud
it was artifact research, those things arent in the game anymore 😛
so you can get it as soon as you have the artifact
fleet whale
yeah, for the assassin one you just need to farm rares in the dalaran underbelly (Legion) and it will drop
sub is the Throne of Thunder trove scenario thing
and outlaw is combining two low drop rate items from Nelth's lair and vault of the wardens
grizzled jay
or 2nd and 3rd clears if you're me
verbal knot
Thanks for the helpful info,appreciate it.
fleet whale
for the trove scenario, it's been awhile but i think there is a perk in the rogue order hall tree
that makes Marin Noggenflogger, the goblin, give you something daily, and one of the things you can get are keys
inland lintel
Any mythic raiders here who main rogue
balmy condor
none whatsoever
inland lintel
I've seen your name before
balmy condor
at least take me out to dinner first, I'm very shy
vital haven
ill take you out to dinner
balmy condor
nairda bb you don't need to take me out to dinner to get some ;)
vital haven
❤️
fleet whale
so i just traveled time
as soon as my clock hit 2 AM... it back to 1 AM!
(Yes i know it's daylights savings)
earnest nimbus
Anyone know the deadly poison ***debuff ***spell id offhand? Trying to add it to nameplate aura tracking and no luck so far
earnest nimbus
Seems to be the spell id of the buff itself
okay awesome I'll try that one as well 🙂
Yep, 2818 is the one. Thanks Whispyr! 🙂
balmy condor
no problemo
earnest nimbus
tangential deadly poison question, actually. Tooltip says 12 second duration. Debuff on target is showing as 15 seconds when applied.
Scanning talents I can't find anything that augments that. Guessing its just a tooltip error?
balmy condor
12 second with a pandemic of 3.6 seconds is 15
earnest nimbus
AH! its being double applied so quickly when I initially attack the target. Got it. Thanks!
earnest nimbus
was trying to sort pandemic timers at 15 sec rather than 12. Cheers!
proper basin
Is sharpened blades still a thing?
im getting this buff everytime I autoattack
Is this a known bug or something?
dark crag
Reequip your azerites maybe you have a bugged piece
snow forge
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
pliant apex
rotation wise, will the covenant ability simply fit neatly at the same spot as current button for neck does?
and in the same rotation priority? or not going to be this straight forward/
grizzled jay
I am putting it on the same button, yes. And Covenant ability will pretty much always have highest prio when it is up (with some exceptions).
royal lantern
f1 essence/covenant ability gang o/
nimble tartan
i use 7 🙂
real bay
gigahands
grave monolith
!guide
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Guides:
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide
fleet whale
i know this sounds noobish but i've actually never used WA's before. Which WA has SND in it? I've tried Miz's but it doesn't track snd
balmy condor
dunno
I think afenar updated his
I know mine does
miz isn't updating his wa's till sl
grizzled jay
my personal one tracks SnD
ive been lazy about making better WAs
i need to update my RtB one
hearty basin
Luxthos' tracks all you want for all specs: https://wago.io/HJe5_pfNm
grizzled jay
i have a scuffed setup where i write a suite independently for each spec lol
hearty basin
but why?^^
grizzled jay
cause
bright path
Luxthos’ wa are the best and more polished
peak jungle
I've seen countless videos on outlaw and sub rogues and how they feel in the beta, but I've seen far and few for assassination. Are we still looking a bit weaker out of the three in terms of raw numbers?
balmy condor
yes
~10%
also sin didn't have any legendaries doubling their dps in beta like sub, so not hype
and didn't receive anything really new
so not hype
and not hype = no videos
fathom swift
It also feels a lot slower to play cause no haste at start of expac and slice n dice isnt that fun to use for assa
peak jungle
I'm really hoping that we get the old ability we had in.. MoP? WoD? Where envenom refreshes SnD. Having to juggle like 6 different up times is not fun
balmy condor
and no one gives a rats ass(assination) about that
snd doesn't really change things that much, at least imo
people keep doom and glooming how shit snd is for sin and how it feels bad and its so much juggling and oh my god the uptimes
but like
its got such a long duration
I personally don't see it as a problem tbh
peak jungle
I see not SnD as the issue, rather being energy starved due to early in expansion with so many things to juggle
fathom swift
The thing i dont like about it is having to spend most of your finishers on maintenance buffs/debuffs
fathom swift
Its not like awful tho its just like slightly worse than before imo
balmy condor
you cast snd like 8 times in a 5 minute fight
fleet whale
the only issue i have with snd is the opener
other than that i don't mind it that much
fleet whale
there are also the awkward moments
balmy condor
but to me
fleet whale
where you need to refresh both snd and rupture in a shiv window
balmy condor
that's fucking silly
fathom swift
Yeah i didnt like playing inq on ret for the same reason
balmy condor
snd pandemic is longer than a shiv window
peak jungle
My last question - are you guys planning to stick it out as assassin and hope that it just 'gets better' or are you planning to respec?
balmy condor
unless it stays this bad, I'm playing sin
its numerically behind, but aside from that, its the same good ol sin that it has been for like 4 expansions
fathom swift
Personally no ill play whatever spec is best for the boss
strange python
I find sin hard to enjoy at the start of xpacs because of how slowly it plays. Later on though it always becomes a super fun spec for me as it speeds up.
shadow tulip
That's fair
fleet whale
it's either frost DK or rogue for me in SL
balmy condor
yeh, everyone has their own likes and dislikes
fleet whale
probably will level both
balmy condor
sin rogue is one of those niches
completely understandable that 40apm is too slow for people
peak jungle
Boomer spec
fleet whale
people always say that
shadow tulip
fleet whale
yet i've seen too many bad sin rogues to count
strange python
^
balmy condor
there's bad players in every spec
strange python
lol funniest shit ever when someone complains about it being so slow and still screw it up
balmy condor
that's not really a sin only thing
strange python
like druids that need to stand in one spot to heal
fleet whale
I find BM hard to screw up tbh
dry atlas
even MM is hard to screw up as
fleet whale
MM is broken right now
dry atlas
mm should always be better than bm as its more demanding even if just a little bit
theres too much damage in pets
shadow tulip
SHOULD
fleet whale
i mean if you're talking pvp at this moment
MM is just rapid fire and aimed shot, lol
ionic quartz
Honestly ill probs play sin and sub, between the two im sure it'll cover or be performant for most fights. I don't mind outlaw but something about it feels off in my hands. Always end up firing extra abilities when spamming keys if I pivot for a proc...not sure if its ability queuing or the animations or what.
strange python
!guide
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Guides:
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide
strange python
I'll probably never let go of all the rogue specs until they let me mog a single 2 handed katana and fedora onto sub rogue, at which point I'll become a sub rogue loyalist
strange python
if they let us make the offhand "invisible" then for sure
but even "invisible" would have you punch randomly which looks dumb
then I just need to work out how to /say "nothing personnel kid" in the other factions language
delicate dagger
Is Kyrian still the move?
balmy condor
yes
balmy condor
Fine, and you?
strange lichen
is there a reason why you would have your higher item level dagger in your OH? just seeing if i'm missing something lol
dry atlas
no cause oh does less damage
strange lichen
this dude in my guild is running and i'm like wtf lol, just picked up
royal lantern
you always want the ilvl in your mainhand
cus of how skill dmg is calcualted
offhand is more or less a statstick
balmy condor
^
royal lantern
like
i could eq a random questing green dagger in my OH
and dps would not really go down by much
balmy condor
I think mythic cara to mythic wrath daggers main hand are about 1-1.3% difference
in offhand its like 0.5%
strange python
So basic gist, always put the higher ilvl in your mainhand and tell your guildy that they nub
balmy condor
yes
tropic ocean
So basic gist, always put the higher ilvl in your mainhand and tell your guildy that they nub
@strange python tell your guildies they are nub regardless 😁
shadow tulip
Any re-evaluation of covenants after the change?
vestal wren
pins should be up to date
vestal wren
kyrian is the go to on 30+ reown (so on beta)
shadow tulip
Guess there will be an update before launch for that then?
vestal wren
i update the pins regularly
the aim of sl information is mainly to help you test things on beta, so there is no reason to talk about things that are relevant past release with this many changes every week
distant cypress
how much i would fuck up if i would go and pick up nightfae as sin rogue ?
strange lichen
!guides
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Guides:
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide
vestal wren
how much i would fuck up if i would go and pick up nightfae as sin rogue ?
probably not a much early
distant cypress
so im looking at small loss early expansion wise and huge loss later on if nothing changes in covenant balance
god damn it
distant cypress
thats true, its just i really dont like kyrian, like ugh
its like forcing horde player to be human
vestal wren
kyrian is probably not best before 30+ reown
so don't worry you might play bone spike early
distant cypress
thanks
fleet whale
also note that certain covenants give you certain perks depending on the dungeon
odd flax
compendium trinket BiS for m+?
shadow tulip
Scribe trinkets bis for many LUL
Int trinkets on rogues, warriors and hunters
And BTW, Nihal, I know you don't like Kyrian, but I personally prefer the feature some give instead of a few raw numbers
The potion will be handy to dispell in the raid
Just like that's the reason I played dward (dark iron ATM) for M+. Easy budget cloak was good
vestal wren
trinkets on beta are wild
pure spire
Hey guys, does Sepsis covenant ability work with assassinations mastery? New to rogue and trying to figure out which spec to play.
vestal wren
no
fleet whale
it doesn't work with assassin's mastery. However, shiv does buff up the dot
except for the final tick for some reason
vestal wren
thats a bug
fleet whale
that shiv is working with sepsis, or the final tick not working
honest rain
fleet whale
0 more or less means your choice in terms of talents on that row
they are utility rows
they don't influence dps
with that said, highly recommend Cheat Death when raiding/doing M+ if you are new to rogue
and leeching poison for WQs
balmy condor
the final tick not working is a bug
vestal wren
0 is for rows that have no dps talents
real inlet
is there anytime i'd rather use mutilate over ambush when ambush is available? if not i can make a macro and put them on the same button?
balmy condor
not right now
unless you're using blindside obviously
in shadowlands you would ambush in opener sometimes, and blindside is competitive
so you could macro them onto the same button
probably wouldn't be too big of a loss in the opener, even if it ends up being worse
real inlet
and when blindside procs it would just go back to ambush
balmy condor
yup
real inlet
i imagine it's the same for SS and ambush in outlaw?
balmy condor
probably
real inlet
sweet, ty
real inlet
well they way i thought i was going to make this macro work doesn't work. anyone know how to do that? cast ambush when stealthed OR have blindside buff, then cast mutilate any other time
balmy condor
you need gnome sequencer
opaque grotto
Macros don’t work with conditions like that
balmy condor
yup
opaque grotto
You can’t make it cast and ability if you have X buff
balmy condor
base game doesn't allow that
opaque grotto
An*
real inlet
i see, i have one in sub that goes from shadowstrike back to backstab when i shadow dance, but that works because it changes the bar right?
balmy condor
yes, that's a stance change
real inlet
gotcha
vague vapor
!guide
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Guides:
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide
unborn root
There's no way to macro ambush and mut onto the same button for blindside procs, huh?
slim briar
Anyone still playing elaborate planning?
low girder
you play EP in prepatch, so yes
fleet whale
can you use legion gems with BFA gear? I might get a saber's eye of agi
fleet whale
tbh i just want to get it
cause im at 999 agi atm
just want to get to over 1000 lol
yeah not really worth the 4k gold since saber's eyes are expensive for some reason
would legit be like a 1.5 dps increase over a crit gem lol
marble magnet
Aside from Legion, Shaw using Garrote confirms him as a Sin rogue right?
fallow otter
When you talk about lore you might aswell be speaking mandarin
fossil slate
I've not really been scrubbed up on rogue going into SL so apologies for the lazy question but am I right in thinking Sub is fairly ahead of Sin going into SL as it currently stands?
balmy condor
~10%
vestal wren
sub is 10-15% ahead of sin with current tuning
fossil slate
Fairs what's causing that with sin? Is it just mostly down to tuning at present then?
balmy condor
bad numbers ye
fossil slate
And thanks for always being there for answers fuu and whispyr 🥳
regal cloud
balmy condor
:) I mostly just regurgitate fuu's answers
vestal wren
assassination still beats sub in cleave even with the low tuning
fossil slate
I've spent like all beta learning Shadow priest then have moved back to rogue last minute so trying to brush up haha
assassination still beats sub in cleave even with the low tuning
@vestal wren
Oh that's interesting! Good to see
warm drift
dimishing stats are live on pre patch right? if yes when does crit dimish
balmy condor
"awful"
vestal wren
sub cleave is:
- spreading fw on multiple targets
- spreading rupture on multiple targets
- higher cp gain
- vault on 3+
balmy condor
warm drift
cool thank you 🙂
balmy condor
np
warm drift
would u ignore that for m+ and go full crit ? with 3 eb?
balmy condor
yeh pretty much
balmy condor
still crit/vers
vestal wren
sin is atm ~5-15% stronger on 2 and 3 target cleave
but outlaw beats both sin/sub usually
outlaw is ~10% ahead of sin on 2 and 3 targets
worn pebble
Is it correct to look at is as of right now, oulaw is best tuned for m+ but for raids it depends on the fight with outlaw/sin being better on cleaves and sub best on ST?
balmy condor
correct
worn pebble
Thanks 🙂
balmy condor
depends entirely on what's worth to you
inland lintel
My goal right now is to guarantee I earn a raid spot. So I need to perform really well that first week of castle nathria
balmy condor
all 3 rogue specs will do that just fine
sin, with current tuning, probably less so for single target
but as per the discussion above, its still strong on cleave
inland lintel
I'm guessing you can play all 3b pretty well
inland lintel
I've been playing subtlety and it seems pretty straightforward.
balmy condor
sin and outlaw are more straightforward than sub for most people
inland lintel
Maintain SnD & rupture. Then spam shadowstrike and eviscerate, right?
inland lintel
And you're saying assassination is easier than that?
balmy condor
yes
its slower, and as long as you maintain gar rup and snd
you're basically there
less short cds as well
less punishing to mistakes
inland lintel
Niiiiice
Outlaw seems chill too, I've been playing it
I just don't understand how it does damage.
vestal wren
assassination is a questionable pick with current tuning
balmy condor
faceroll harder
if outlaw doesn't do damage, you just gotta smash your keyboard till the keycaps fall off
inland lintel
I just don't see where it would even come from
I use Sinister and pistol shot procs as my builders
balmy condor
melee, mastery, sinister strike atm
inland lintel
Then I spam between the eyes on cooldown otherwise I use dispatch.
dry atlas
Blade flurry bro
inland lintel
Blade flurry seems like dogshit compared to shuriken storm
dry atlas
They're completely different
inland lintel
Maybe I don't understand how the skill works but it seems really weak.
balmy condor
a % of your damage is just cleaved to everything around you
native lynx
it hits on melee mh+oh strikes, as well as abilities
warm drift
u need uptime for the cd reduce so u can have high uptime on bf
if that makes sense:D
inland lintel
BF?
native lynx
what
inland lintel
Oh
balmy condor
bf is blade flurry
warm drift
blade flurry
inland lintel
How much of the damage comes from getting lucky on roll the bones.
native lynx
@warm drift "u need uptime for the cd reduce" what is this
inland lintel
Yeah I guess so
dry atlas
Outlaw is crazy as a concept in general compared to sin
warm drift
@native lynx if u dont have high uptime on ur finishers u loose uptime on bf
dry atlas
"you need uptime so you can have uptime " Pepega
native lynx
Ok, i thought you meant you need the cdr buff from rtb, which is not true, but yes youre absolutely right gotta get those finishers in so that bf comes off cd during its uptime window
inland lintel
Assassination seems like the most monotonous spec of the three.
balmy condor
it is
inland lintel
Feels like feral druid Jr.
Outlaw kind of feels like enhancement shaman instead of stormstrike procs you get pistol shot.
dry atlas
Feral is way more complex than sin lol
inland lintel
Yeah but sin is way better.
inland lintel
@vestal wren who are some of your favorite rogue content creators on YouTube?
balmy condor
can confirm
is a nice guy
also would be my choice if I had to pick someone
doesn't clickbait, accurate, just generally a good time
inland lintel
Okay, I'm going to check it out right now. Thank you!
visual dragon
Infexious is good
balmy condor
that's quite an opinion
but I guess everyone has their own tastes
crim's pretty good too, I like him
crim's pretty good too, I like him
forgot about him
regal cloud
Hey sorry it's more an general question so mby not the most accurate channel but can someone answer me about soulbinds?
Like if I choose necro as sub, if I switch for OL for whatever reason, the soulbind way still the same or can I switch it?
fathom swift
you can change soulbinds or soulbind paths however you want, just not the actual conduits you slot in
those take the points to replace
strange python
i believe the paths change depending on spec but the conduits stay in
fathom swift
yeah you can set it up to have a soulbind for each spec or something if you want
jaunty arrow
How looks assa now on beta? Its worth to play it?
jaunty arrow
So nothing superior
strange python
But I heard that's typical for assa before huge gear upgrades. Don't quote me tho
dry atlas
other specs will also get the same huge gear upgrades
balmy condor
Exsang was nuts at the start of legion
Ss was nuts in uldir
Sin is slower at the start of an expac apm wise
But dps wise there’s no statement to be made about any spec being inherently bad at the start of an expac
strange python
Gotcha :)
dusky walrus
Pelagos for all
minor thicket
Is pelagos part of Kyrian?
vestal wren
palegos is overtuned, its not about any other soulbind being bad
wicked drift
placid cobalt
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
echo gust
so whats the new covenant sims now?
subtle drift
Pinned
royal lantern
congratz.now you can do dmg
maiden wolf
!stats
prisma monolithBOT
Pre patch: Versatility > Critical Strike > Mastery > Haste
**Shadowlands: ** Haste > Versatility => Critical Strike => Mastery
unreal fern
How is sin rogue gameplay state atm? Is it ok or some problems?
crimson palm
Dead
vivid summit
I feel like I saw people say CT was worth singletarget when prepatch came out. Was I stoned or is that the case?
vestal wren
assassination is atm undertuned
fleet whale
CT is not worth it anymore in ST
unreal fern
@vestal wren im more interested in rotation st/aoe if there are any design problems or it feels okayish, not numbers :)
vestal wren
assassination in 98% unchanged
if you don't think there was a design problem in bfa or legion, it will have no issue in sl
past haven
@vestal wren Is Assa undertuned in terms of talents or conduit/soulbind?
vestal wren
it is undertuned in terms of baseline tuning
all borrowed power systems (with the exception of celerity that will see tuning sooner or later) are about as good/bad on all 3 specs
assassination just isn't compatitive without a slight buff
i can see that this is a conflict for a lot of people given assassination was now the best rogue spec to play for 2 xpacs straight in raiding
but i think we will see tuning changes sooner or later
fair rain
Fuu 
past haven
Sin is my favourite spec since forever, so i'll probably stick with that only hoping for some good changes
broken moss
vestal wren
is the normal world
not at the moment ^^
sin was even in pvp the better/more pupular pick in bfa iirc
balmy condor
Correct
vestal wren
sub is in a well balanced enviroment slightly ahead of sin (not significantly like now) because sin is better to deal with raid mechanics and more forgiving what makes it even then the stronger progress spec
royal lantern
eh like
you can probably just play sin fine for raiding
people make a bigger deal out of that stuff then it really is tbh
covert patrol
!stats
prisma monolithBOT
Pre patch: Versatility > Critical Strike > Mastery > Haste
**Shadowlands: ** Haste > Versatility => Critical Strike => Mastery
vestal wren
pre patch has no new content, so it does not matter
you can play the worse spec in the game and its fine
strange python
That makes sense
balmy condor
maintain everything
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Guides:
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide
low girder
ah there we go
balmy condor
doesn't matter
inland lintel
realy?!?!
balmy condor
racials are minimal
if you really REALLY care
you can do that
and get your
0.7% dps
maybe
upper wasp
Hi guys! Have any of you tried to do freehold by yourself? Before pre-patch i could, but now mobs bishotting me XD
Any suggestion?
upper wasp
oh ok! ty! 😄
peak jungle
Any word on potential buffs to assassin? spent the day trying sub and I hate it, lol
fallow otter
Hi guys! Have any of you tried to do freehold by yourself? Before pre-patch i could, but now mobs bishotting me XD
Any suggestion?
@upper wasp if it's for speed leveling they nerfed it i thought
strange python
For progress and multitarget assa will be in the same Spot and also if ur not a wf Raider, play what u want
mossy crown
!guides
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Guides:
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide
bronze kelp
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
worn pebble
!stats
prisma monolithBOT
Pre patch: Versatility > Critical Strike > Mastery > Haste
**Shadowlands: ** Haste > Versatility => Critical Strike => Mastery
tropic ocean
For progress and multitarget assa will be in the same Spot and also if ur not a wf Raider, play what u want
@strange python imagine actually playing and having fun 😁 sometimes when reading disc I feel like everyone is a full time esports player 😋
strange python
iam doing less 5 dps...benched...but the shadow died on the pull, but he is top dps...i hate the game is so numberfocused
viral aurora
If you get benched, its most likely a combination of things, that is of you arent like 20% beneath the second worst dps. Then you dunno wtf you are doing most likely.
strange python
U wont get benched cuz of ur spec its pretty much that u dont know how to play the spec
except if u are a wf raider but then again udnt be asking this if u were
sterile jackal
Will we get some new patch notes for SL today?
balmy condor
It’s possible
shrewd night
balmy condor
Wednesdays are beta usually
tropic ocean
U wont get benched cuz of ur spec its pretty much that u dont know how to play the spec
except if u are a wf raider but then again udnt be asking this if u were
@strange python on lower Rankings wr 200 or lower, its more nepotism than actual performance
😋
strange python
Just hope assassa can be a little competetive in lower raiding come SL cause I'm rly enjoying the spec :).
royal lantern
there is a reasonable chance that sin could be the go-too progression spec simply because of how it works
frail jungle
Assassination is generally a safe spec for progression, yes.
vestal wren
likely, but tuning is currently not in fav. of it
fleet whale
People always bring up assassin being best for progression, but more often than not, most players choose the best performing spec for progression
unless if the gap is really close
vestal wren
assassination was the best performing one for 2 xpacs now
there is a certain perception build with that
but even ignoring that, if both sub/assassination are tuned about equal there is no reason to look at subtlety if there is not a specific fight that lined up a lot better with its cooldowns.
Assassination is less punishing, usually more consistent and does not suffer from downtimes as much.
lean marten
v 
= assa v sub
past haven
I would like to use Assa in M+ without having to feel like a piano player while trying doin some decent AoE
neat topaz
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
kind vault
Should I be opening with Ambush or Garrote? I’m so used to going with the talent that gives me extra time to use stealth abilities+garrote dmg and then garrot’ing multiple enemies
But it feels like when I use ambush there’s not enough time to fit in an extra stealth attack like there is for garrote
spring sparrow
Having trouble figuring out this rotation. So I've been playing outlaw exclusively. I'm used to SS to build points and then a finisher. What's my spammable on this build?
drifting cloud
mutilate
spring sparrow
ty
prime pine
!guides
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Guides:
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide
prime pine
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
hollow hawk
What does "until cancelled" mean for shiv
rough agate
Maybe til dead or you apply it on a different target 😮
karmic cedar
that has to be a datamining error...
balmy condor
Most likely error
surreal torrent
grizzled jay
Shiv toggle like Breath Pog
glad spruce
Assassination getting buffs 
grizzled jay
Runic Power
last root
jaja
random comet
What does "until cancelled" mean for shiv
@hollow hawk I saw that and thought it'd be a toggle dot like ashvane coral?
that'd be at least interesting
obsidian mountain
balmy condor
Deserved
fleet whale
you could argue that the nerf wasn't enough
grizzled jay
If it's like a half percent DPS loss, that puts Venthyr + Nadjia within 3.5%
and def puts Emeni + SBS over it in AoE
fleet whale
If you're talking ST, then Night fae should be within the same area
i mean Venth was literally just one dps higher lol
urban marsh
Oh ok
balmy condor
Should have moroes post that once an hour :P
low girder
lol
dense cedar
I believe that is a datamining error
drifting cloud
go read literally 4 posts up
sick scarab
so guys any news ? i was oflline for some days
low girder
This happens literally constantly with the "until cancelled" stuff. Idk why people fall for it.
grizzled ruin
so is the 1% on pelagos enough to dethrone him ?
fair rain
It makes it closer
sterile jackal
sin has enough skills to smoothly maintain full buff. 4s is long enough for us.
mint kindle
!guide
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Guides:
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide
vestal wren
Legendary Powers:
vestal wren
Legendary Powers:
delicate bone
still tuned under outlaw for ST? kind of crazy
dry atlas
fair rain
Fuu you the best don't let anyone tell you different 
@vestal wren
balmy condor
@delicate bone all the tuning happening so far has been generalized, we haven’t gotten sin-only tuning
So it’s gonna be behind until then
delicate bone
yea but still, leggo tuning is essentially spec specific
but i see where youre coming from
hopefully with not buffing legos for sin, they have plans for the spec tuning itsels
itself
somber bison
Yeah bench plans
vestal wren
i don't expect big changes to legendary items
they could nerf celerity a bit more, but not rly seeing a outstanding good/bad one else
shadowdust is still not good
somber bison
I assume emi is Emeni ?
vestal wren
yes
jaunty arrow
@wild kettle stupid question for m+ is best conduit on kyrian kleia or pelagos for all (raid atd.)
balmy condor
Wrong ping
fair rain
balmy condor
But Pelagos still the strongest
That’s why the soulbind chart has Pelagos as the overall best
jaunty arrow
I get it but u cant use one for all, so thats why ask coz necro have for m+ shown
jaunty arrow
But u cant switch that every day or?
balmy condor
It’s an energy system
You’ll be able to switch in and out of your raid set as long as it’s not all the time
Won’t be able to change per boss for example
jaunty arrow
Ok, ty
quaint sequoia
The change to shiv is a buff to sin right?
quaint sequoia
Damn, so no buff to sin this build either then 🙃
plain thistle
hopefully they will do a aura buff before launch, but right now it seems they are focusing on balancing convenant-conduits choice
like they did to legendaries a few weeks ago, to bring every legendary to 5% or less dps increase
vestal wren
its likely that blizz buffs/nerfs classes sooner or later
past haven
Echoing Reprimand will charge a random combo point or is based at which u have at the moment u do the spell?
fleet whale
so how about sub rogue being about 600 dps in front of sin...
strange python
what about it?
rough agate
Think they'll ever make venom rush viable or would they need to remove alacrity
vestal wren
they just need to buff VR a bit more
fleet whale
so it looks like they finally fixed the improved poisons perk
just attacked about 10 mobs one by one from stealth
and both poisons were applied immediately
vestal wren
we saw a lot of bugfixes
pliant apex
if first mut from opener, doesnt crit, im supposed to re cast till 4-5 points, then slice and dice, and then do i mut again now or garrote-mut till 4 and rupture
this in case opener mut doesnt crit
i know rotation if it crits on opener
basically asking opener for non crit mut
pliant apex
ahh ic
casting an extra mul will be dps loss?
im guessing i cast garrote if second mut doesnt crit either?
balmy condor
pretty negligible overall
pliant apex
hmm
so basically mut slice mut, garrote, rupture, irrespective of crits .. long story short?
balmy condor
yes
pliant apex
ty, youre really helpful
balmy condor
if you run subterfuge, you would obviously open with the garrote first into a slice
pliant apex
ma will be good enough im sure for purple logs in aotc guilds right
not chasing CE or orange parses
balmy condor
ye
wild kettle
@jaunty arrow I assume that wasn't for me 
prime pine
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
prime pine
!stats
prisma monolithBOT
Pre patch: Versatility > Critical Strike > Mastery > Haste
**Shadowlands: ** Haste > Versatility => Critical Strike => Mastery
prime pine
!guide
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Guides:
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide
unkempt spade
hello best covenant for asa rogue?
fleet whale
right now kyrian but all 4 are really close in ST
nimble garnet
hey guys, hows assa looking atm? pve/pvp wise thanks!
balmy condor
Worse than sub
strange python
But we don't know how it will look once stuff starts rolling sadly. Blizz is the company of surprises :)
nimble garnet
in paper tho, the 4 bleeds plus doomblade lego and +envenom dmg sounds pretty good, is it just a numbers thing then that puts assa behind?
balmy condor
Yes
strange python
I never got the hate for SnD. I feel like it has good synergy with the spec :)
grizzled jay
people randomly started hating maintenance buffs
balmy condor
wouldn't call it random
maintenance has always been not the most favorited thing
adding it to sin just adds another one
and people especially don't like that
frail birch
Idk I like slapping that snd right at the perfect moment before it ends
Same with pandemic timer on bleeds
grizzled jay
i think it's just for Legion/BfA we had Spec > Class and a lot of current players started in Legion so are used to that philosophy. Not many WoW players are used to Class > Spec, where your spec adds on to base abilities.
balmy condor
snd pandemic is so long
so I don't really care too much
and I definitely don't think its that XD
but we all have our own opinions
topaz talon
still cant get used to SnD being on sub and sin
fallow otter
Im not a fan but it's a rogue way of life now
Feels best on sub imo
But in all fairness I haven't even bothered with pre patch sin
Cbf
topaz talon
like i am by no means an expert on how rogues work, i jsut stab things and smile, but it feels like with sin it makes sense due to poisons being applied faster, and outlaw with weapons being slow, but doesnt sub white hit like a child?
balmy condor
sub and sin white hits are equal
because they're both daggers
sub gets energy and cp from autos as well
topaz talon
yeah but sin has the added bonus of poisons actually being applied faster and more effectively though right?
balmy condor
which kinda makes up for it
topaz talon
ok that last part makes more sense then
balmy condor
I mean its strong for both
idk who exactly its stronger for
I think that's splitting hairs
but sub adds something gameplay
and sin doesn't
and that's the main complaint
because people want something new from sin
and snd isn't it
topaz talon
oh im not complaining, i mean sins rotation was pretty boring, at least SnD makes it alittle more interesting
balmy condor
yeah I think most people would tell you that another maint buff isn't more interesting
but I like it so idk
topaz talon
to each their own
i was mainly just looking for clarification as to why youd even bother with it on sub, which i think i got my answer to
guess i couldve just asked that in that channel though
balmy condor
the melee damage is huge
the cp/energy is the cream on top
snd is the sole reason why you see melee damage topping every damage chart
loud brook
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
strange python
Most of them are outdated
loud brook
yeah I know, I just need something since my ssd decided to seppuku
and I didn't save my weakauras on my backup
loud brook
alright
gentle locust
mmo champion Spell Changes shows they removed nature damage buff from shiv, is this just a typo?
jaunty arrow
U dont like 0% for 0?
jaunty arrow
Dont think so
gentle locust
exsanguinate baseline on all targets, rather than just one target 😄
jaunty arrow
I want see some sinergi with snd, like envenom crit give u 3s snd or smth like this
gentle locust
well, then you would just use those CP to overlap another envenom
at least now we can still have our brains engaged 😄
jaunty arrow
I dont mind use snd but for me feels like forced comback child u dont like
gentle locust
it gives me Cataclysm vibes, but without stacking Deadly Poison
jaunty arrow
For exampl yes
Smth like that
Also rework talents, HB is just w/e atc
If they switch hb to eb trait, that will be good
vestal wren
With Bis setup (default is with legendary item):
jaunty arrow
@vestal wren ty fuu
vestal wren
Grove Invigoration was not updated in the sim yesterday. Night fae looks very appealing now for sin/outlaw
jaunty arrow
Yep looks good
vague rock
how would you make venom rush a good talent, and improve that row in general?
it's not very competitive is it
vestal wren
buff it
vague rock
so if it refunded more energy, it would actually be used
vestal wren
8 -> 10 energy
vague rock
wondering if that energy you get back ever beats alacrity
jaunty arrow
Nope
vague rock
like even if you buffed the energy
jaunty arrow
Maybe but its hard to say
vague rock
i'm interested in how much energy it would have to give back to be even or better than alacrity. Is it 10 @vestal wren ?
vestal wren
10 makes is compatitive
but idk if you would pick it given vr alacrity does not lose value if you get more targets
jaunty arrow
Exs is kinda rip i guess
jaunty arrow
Still if exs should by playable i will need 3 hand
strange python
Venomous Wounds is a passive rogue ability learned at level 46 for those with the Assassination specialization. Working in conjunction with [Rupture], it has a high chance to deal additional nature damage and restore a significant amount of energy.
This is all i want
jaunty arrow
Maybe after frst raid
vestal wren
all specs have some minor things that could change, but tbh so has every spec in the game
assassination would like to see changes in vr and exsang
outlaw probably would like changes in roll the bones buffs
subtlety would like to see a change in shadow blades and a buff to dark
crimson palm
exsang's fine tho
vestal wren
hb might be decent with PK
crimson palm
is there any other talent in the game
that forces u not to press a button
i legit wonder
vestal wren
i mean
that was the complain we had about the legendary too
but i agree, having to decide between 2 inefficient choices does not feel great
a easy fix is to just make it a cooldown
that gives you "max stacks"
crimson palm
its a last row talent
it needs to be gameplay defining
like sin is probably the only spec in the game that has bullshit last row
crimson palm
sub does change gameplay
vestal wren
mos is passive like pb
ct is similar to secret
tornado is niche, like hb
crimson palm
ye but mos grants u energy and u dont have to pool before windows
so in a way it does change the way u play
pb is just passive proc that doesnt do shit
ruby idol
anyone noted if Sepsis scales with Mastery this build?
frigid kestrel
I love this list of emotions I have to go through.
Practice Nerco, no more necro
Practice Venthyr, no more Venthyr
Practice Kyrian, no more Kyrian
And now, Night Fae
YAY, I’m officially ready for anything.
rich yew
prisma yoke
just wait until the Jailer pocket dimension becomes a covenant and you have a new ultimate :D
echo gust
NF is the only way
spice marsh
I’m hoping the dps difference is to far apart. I like necro armour and weapon mog
frigid sleet
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
lost niche
what would be the opener for assa with the singletarget build ? (Master assassin)
quaint sequoia
Do you think sin will get a buff before release? or do I have to go sub 😦
delicate bone
id still be cautiously hopeful for some tuning to help sin out.. but its looking a little rough
royal lantern
eh, its possible, but at the same time sin could go into the corner sub was during bfa
aka: 2 specs work, we ignore the 3rd
zinc frigate
Question:
I am new with rogue was reading through the guide and it seems that Vendetta and Vanish are mostly used together except in the opener.
So my question is should I make macro for them since they are both off GCD and use them separately only in the opener and is it good if I do it that way?
balmy condor
You use them separately in m+ and pvp a lot of the time
And there’s also some cheese with raid mechanics sometimes where you can vanish a couple things
I wouldn’t macro it
zinc frigate
Ahhhh okay thank you for the info makes sense
balmy condor
Ye
grim jay
how high are your sims and do you have any difficulties meeting them?
balmy condor
Where are we going with this
royal lantern
its close too impossible too get your sim dps in reality lol
when do people finally understand that
grim jay
@royal lantern nice that you answered something with a sarcastic answer thats 100% unnecessary and stupid, ty
royal lantern
its not sarcastic
grim jay
@balmy condor I had some people simming for lower than they actually deal damage
royal lantern
its how it is
royal lantern
a sim is 5min no movment no mechanics with a good amount of crits/procs
and you play 100%perfect
royal lantern
reality can have you be really lucky with crits during cd windows, and now your dps is simply higher cus of that
obtuse anvil
what's the variance
grim jay
than what they actually did
balmy condor
Okay
royal lantern
or you play perfect, and get 0 procs/crits and your dps is lower
thats how reality works
balmy condor
So if they simmed for single target
obtuse anvil
you're talking about a statistical model
balmy condor
and the fight was the same length
obtuse anvil
not the word of god
grim jay
like 200-250-ish dps
obtuse anvil
are all the options in the sim matching the log? buffs and consumables?
lust getting popped asap etc
and what fight is it
balmy condor
Yeah
royal lantern
reality can have you be really lucky with crits during cd windows, and now your dps is simply higher cus of that
thas 1 of the big things too
balmy condor
200-250 isn’t lucky crits
royal lantern
for 1 fight? it sure can be
balmy condor
Unless you’re shooting like 20% higher
royal lantern
always? then maybe the sims are wrong
dunno how optimized the sims for other classes are
we have fuu
royal lantern
what classes?
jaunty arrow
Welp u can be super unlucky but
balmy condor
So if it’s 200 higher, somethings wrong between the sim and the fight
Or it’s one in a million rng
Or it’s a class that has some missing implementation
royal lantern
eeehhhhh
like
its enough for fights like shad
when you get a OP proc+high crit count during your cd windows allready too get a bigger impact
cus the fight is over so fast
grim jay
was a shortly above 3 min kill on a twinkraid
royal lantern
timer it is
royal lantern
if it is a class with a 3min cd
and they used a cd the 2nd time during the last 5-10seconds
ofc the dps will go up by quite a bit again
jaunty arrow
Also bl can do smth i guess if u have or not have cds
grim jay
ye thinking about it it might just be the extra cd you maybe get in in the 20-ish seconds between sim and actual fightlength
royal lantern
like i said
always remember that a sim is 5min patchwork
but reality tends too be different
royal lantern
fight lenght alone has a big impact of the dmg a class can do
balmy condor
Sims run with 20% fight length variance, so there’s already that happening
But obviously if it’s longer
You’ll end on the higher side of that variance
royal lantern
+it deepens on how good the sims are handled during prepatch
its possible that they are somewhat funky for some classes/specs rn
grim mason
in M+ w/ no EB do i still run Blood,