but ye... burst is usually more fun in terms of getting higher short time results on the damage meter
#assassination
vestal wren
hollow bridge
Sure fuu, but like whats say go further that way and then remove things like vendetta
surreal solar
It’s also not hard to keep Envenom up.... maybe DS but envenoms easy
balmy condor
I mean
hollow bridge
sorry what is DS?
surreal solar
Deeper stratagem
balmy condor
It’ll be pretty hard with 45 apm
vestal wren
vendetta has no issue
hollow bridge
you mean EP not ds right?
balmy condor
No he means DS
hollow bridge
vendetta has an issue in that its only affecting one target with 20% more damage
balmy condor
30%
hollow bridge
its not a buff to the rogue so it has no AE potential
vestal wren
if you know that the base design is passive over time damage
low girder
i mean yes but neither does shadow blades really
surreal solar
Vendettas not bad at all.... it’s a priority burst
vestal wren
vendetta is just making that damage tick higher for 20 secs
surreal solar
Sin ain’t an aoe focused spec
balmy condor
I think your concept of sin is just not how sin is built in the last 8-9 years
vestal wren
if you want burst gameplay subtlety is the design around burst
balmy condor
It would need a pretty big overhaul from the sounds of it
hollow bridge
hmm i dont mean remake sin to be sub
balmy condor
I know but you’re basically suggesting foundational reworks of the base mechanics of the class
vestal wren
i think sin as a low apm maintainance heavy sustained dps spec is a good design
it helps seperate it from subtlety that is very burst oriented
low girder
there also aren't many of them in general
vestal wren
and outlaw that has high apm phases
balmy condor
Yea
vestal wren
this makes all 3 specs unique in a way
hollow bridge
I guess that might be the disconnect, I played Sin mostly back in wrath and then in BFA
vestal wren
wanting to change sin is like asking to change affliction
hollow bridge
i didn't play it at all during cata/mop/wod
hollow bridge
affliction HAS been changed heaps though
it was dot up and spam SB
and it had that juicy SB proc for back to back SB which could do huge crits, it had the ramp up time and then it was very strong
similarly thats what sin was like, and on fights where things died in the ramp up time it felt bad
surreal solar
Afflocks almost majority agree SB was bad, Drain Soul way better
hollow bridge
I suppose that is still the case and jut makes the argument play multi spec
of course spamming SB was considered very boring
particularly with changes to increase the easy of reapplying dots
or the strength of multi dotting with the procs
One simple thing I can point out is the only "proc" sin has is PB
balmy condor
Blindside
low girder
blindside?
hollow bridge
what about instead of fundamental redesign, they simply make it so is on the mobs and not possible for tanks and movement to lose dps?
hollow bridge
blindside wasn't taken for nearly the whole of BFA
yeah true seal of fate is an interesting proc
balmy condor
Was about to say mata
low girder
it will be now
visual terrace
!guide
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Guides:
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide
hollow bridge
yeah i have read for ST in SL u take ambush proc
thats another thing thats counter intuitive to me, muti can proc up to 4 CP while ambush max is 3
balmy condor
Theres like 25 ideas on how to rework pb
Pb is often noted as the janky talent for sin
low girder
that's more of an issue as a whole of bringing back some of the spells
hollow bridge
i get it, its free damage and its good, but the strangeness of a stealth only ability being procable for potentially less CP is a bit lame
balmy condor
It costs no energy
low girder
granted, ambush does hit like a truck
balmy condor
That’s why it’s good
hollow bridge
yup, so why do the dev's not listen and update PB?
low girder
¯_(ツ)_/¯
balmy condor
Idk man
hollow bridge
yeah ambush feels fun to press
balmy condor
I’m not blizzard
hollow bridge
and blindside feels good too
surreal solar
Because pbs fine where it is honestly
balmy condor
Hard disagree
vestal wren
i hope that blindside stays viable in later tiers
hollow bridge
I have not enjoyed PB iterations
legion PB with big damage was fun, but sucked when it didn't proc or things moved
surreal solar
I’ll take a 2sec tick over the old 5 that every tank moved out of anyday
balmy condor
Pb is imo, the worst talent sin has
vestal wren
a lot of people did talk about making PB usable
vestal wren
but also did not want to:
#1 lower impact
#2 have a high cd
low girder
there are situations where you can play around it
there's nothing to play around with pb
balmy condor
Alacrity speeds up the spec and requires thought in m+
low girder
it either procs or it doesn't
balmy condor
That’s completely different
hollow bridge
can you explain thought in m+?
vestal wren
so the "ideas" to make PB good was to make it a cd that you can line up with your cds well while retaining the same impact it had in late legion
balmy condor
Maintaining stacks between pulls
hollow bridge
man sorry there are now multiple threads going on from me and mata, my bad i'll talk exclusively about a thing then move on so not to cause confusion
vestal wren
what is obv. not practical because it would be overtuned asf
surreal solar
A cd that does 7-15% of your dmg, yeah, that’d be gross
vestal wren
fun is directly related to damage output
hollow bridge
hmm, I never though about it like that because maintaining stacks is more reliant on the tank and healer than on the rogue...can't keep up a stack if tanks take too long to pull, we can do it eaiser now with SND actually.... stay 5 CP and then use it before CP goes down to 4 or play the luck of the dice with 80% chance
fun is directly related to damage output? how can you claim that?
Fun happens lots of ways and not just damage
balmy condor
You can exit a pack with 4-5 cp and cast between packs to reset the timer
balmy condor
If your tank can’t pull the next pack in that 25 second window
surreal solar
“Tanks take too long to pull”? I run into the issue of tanks don’t let me restealth
balmy condor
Then you need new tanks
hollow bridge
Yeah i have that issue too with tanks not letting restealth, but i dont think there is much thought process into alacrity stacks
vestal wren
fun is directly related to damage output? how can you claim that?
if you ask for the spec to have more burst then this is already a very strong indicator that it is
low girder
i don't think the thing is there's a lot of thought going into it, but there's something, sometimes. there's literally 0 with PB
balmy condor
It’s min-max obviously
hollow bridge
they are either there or they are not and there can be some level of min maxing but its not exactly dependant on the rogue player per se, still as all number show the better the player the higher the uptimes of nearly every spell/tool in the kit
vestal wren
adding burst to make a spec fun is just adding numbers
balmy condor
But it’s certainly more involved and creates better gameplay than Pb
hollow bridge
if you ask for the spec to have more burst then this is already a very strong indicator that it is
@vestal wren I feel Im being misrepresented. I want to be able to either do damage via ambush evnenoms for short fights/prio adds, versus bleeds for the longer boss fights and not have energy completely different because you ALWAYS need to have rupt and garotte up for the ticks
vestal wren
^
hollow bridge
The spec has had venemous wounds since MOP?
vestal wren
i mean... you can even apply rupture to everything even if it dies fast
balmy condor
Like if the add isn’t going to survive for the rupture duration
Just don’t rupture?
vestal wren
you get energy back if the target dies
surreal solar
^
sweet pecan
ye you rupture everything
hollow bridge
doesn't sub get energy back on finishers?
vestal wren
well
balmy condor
Yeah but evisc is strictly better use of cp in that situation
sweet pecan
you even rupture something like a weak summoned add because you get the energy back, and it can be quitte a lot of it dies in 1 tick
hollow bridge
yeah rupture sniping
surreal solar
They get a small refund on finishers, for sin specifically if a target dies with Rupture we get the energy regen from every tick instantly
balmy condor
Rupture sniping isn’t that big tbh
hollow bridge
yes
vestal wren
using rupture on a target that dies fast is just a damage loss on subtlety.
Its not on assassination
sweet pecan
i like doing it, makes me feel like im good at the game, using me enemies against them
vestal wren
thats because you have a failsave on assassination that makes up for inefficient use of rupture
pliant apex
Jimmy when u gun teach me sub
hollow bridge
sure but what im talking about is EXACTLY that scenario, for Sub you can press rupture and have it be a good spell to use on say a boss or an elite mob
log now if u want
i have some time
pliant apex
You bet sexy
hollow bridge
but when its a weak mob for sub u can apply find weakness, SD with symbols and with MFD double evi
to down a mob super quick because energy is tied to auto attacks/finisher refunds right?
balmy condor
What’s stopping you from just dumping shiv + envenoms into the weak mob
It’s the same result
hollow bridge
all im advocating is something like energy regen is static for sin, still have low APM but i can decide to talent into something like subterfuge for NS for big ambush into double envenom for WQ and then go back to subterfuge and doing the bread and butter of bleeds and miantenance
makes sense?
pliant apex
It does ? Lame
hollow bridge
yes! well atm pre patch stopping me from TB/shiv envenom
low girder
depends on macros
balmy condor
Don’t quote
low girder
but yes with macros i do
hollow bridge
plus u can easily find yourself energy starved between mobs and packs without doing ruptures etc due to venemous wounds
hollow bridge
I'm not saying rework Sin to be jimmyw's pleb tier idea
i just mean why cant there be talents/setup that makes it have some open world burst as a one trick pony but it not be the balanced around gameplay style
surreal solar
Sounds like you just want a painted over sub to me
hollow bridge
similar to when snake eyes for outlaw was a thing and yes it was nerfed
low girder
it does, take MA and MFD
hollow bridge
MA doesn't affect Envenom damage though doesi t?
low girder
MA is crit
balmy condor
Of course it does
low girder
it's all dmg
hollow bridge
you still run out of energy because of bleed ticks
sub doesn't have ambush
it gets turned into Shadow strike
low girder
subterfuge
hollow bridge
at like level 11
balmy condor
Acronyms 
hollow bridge
i think single ambush from MA isn't strong enough
because you wont be at 5 CP
im just saying i think energy regen tied back to almost classic style where its relatively static would be interesting for sin which is the methodical slow spec
balmy condor
I think the cp is the least concern there
hollow bridge
as such u could always have interesting choices of upfront damage versus more damage over time
warm drift
i just wanted to say sounds like classic to me
hollow bridge
sub doesn't really have that option
its just always play around burst window
well ambush into 2 or 3 CP envenom into 5 CP mfd envemon and lets say geared to have 100% crit
I doubt its killing the mob much faster than regular dot style of gameplay
quasi ledge
Completely static energy regen will be boring as fuck, and more than likely won't be enough to accommodate said different "builds"
hollow bridge
where u can go subterfuge, Garotte rup garrote
vestal wren
ambush is weak because of subterfuge
hollow bridge
lmao why can you just assert something like its going to suck and not be viable with 1 no testing and 2 originally i wasn't arguing for completely static but more like get rid of venemous wounds passive and balance energy regen around natural or some other mechanic
vestal wren
easy way to fix is to remove/reduce the subterfuge amp
hollow bridge
i think for that row, MA subterfuge and NS it should be reworked into utility with stealth for sin
balmy condor
Getting rid of venomous wounds is literally static
low girder
or add the amp to ambush 
vestal wren
but subtletfuge is a talent people like
hollow bridge
i really dont enjoy having vanish as a dps amp/cd
vestal wren
thats also possible mata
low girder
that would crowd out the other two talents, i don't think subt needs a buff
was making a joke
vestal wren
subter is already a very dominant one
hollow bridge
obviously the issues in classic/tbc were that with static energy if abilities didn't scale well rogues started off nicely but needed number changes on abilities to make them good through each tier
vestal wren
ma is possible only minimal better on st and this will not make anyone pick it
vestal wren
nightstalker is weak because of subterfuge too
balmy condor
Nightstalker CT fuu
hollow bridge
sorry whispyr, what do you mean?
balmy condor
Make it happen
hollow bridge
how can fuu make it happen?
balmy condor
Issa joke homie
“Scaling” is a huge buzzword
Most scaling comes from borrowed power systems
And not the spec itself
hollow bridge
yes, i didn't mean to say rogues do or don't scale im talking about the changes to haste increasing energy regen rate
balmy condor
So you’ll hear things like “sin sucks at the start of the expansion, but scales”
vestal wren
like rn:
hollow bridge
its in game and readable, having 1k haste versus 2k haste doesn't noticably change the energy regen rate for people, but over say 3 or 5 mins it does lead to more spells being cast
of course, I completely agree with you
Hence Fuu said way early sin gameplay wise is good, just needs more numbers
balmy condor
1k to 2k haste is VERY noticeable
low girder
no even in bfa
balmy condor
Haste scales energy from bleed ticks
low girder
that was noticeable
vestal wren
an sub even become more dominant with more targets.
3 targets:
or dungeon slice:
sub is just too good
hollow bridge
but we are talking about things like being able to press mutilate every 2.5 seconds compared to 3 seconds with 1k-2k haste right
low girder
nightstalker 
balmy condor
You’ll actually notice haste way way more on sin than the other 2 specs
Pooling hasn’t really been a thing
In like
A long time
hollow bridge
if you played DD it mattered slightly in that if u didn't get 2 muts off during EP window u would lose free damage on the DD proc
but generally you didn't need to pool per se sure
balmy condor
The loss was pretty negligent
hollow bridge
haha maybe blizz should give every class 100% crit rate for WF race or logs so there isn't any RNG to the competetion /s
competition*
balmy condor
Tb windows aren’t strong enough to need to specifically pool for either
low girder
idk what you're trying to meme there
hollow bridge
yeah its better to just press TB on cd
how young are you to assume everything is a meme?
low girder
lol
hollow bridge
sarcasm has existed for a long time
hollow bridge
mate, thats how i feel about you
balmy condor
Because I told you that pooling doesn’t exist and i enjoy the spec as it is?
Unlucky
hollow bridge
acting with emoticons like someone who cannot hold a conversation in real life or something. are you 12?
its because you are purposely obtuse and don't try to understand anything you don't like or agree with
not because you enjoy sin as it is
balmy condor
?
warm drift
?
balmy condor
You must be new here
hollow bridge
sin could still be pretty much as you like it if the dev's changed/removed venomous wounds
sweet pecan
please cry more
hollow bridge
it would still be slow/low apm, get bleeds up to do damage
you're welcome to cry Cytos? lol
balmy condor
If I gave you the impression that I’m closed minded, then I’m sorry I rubbed you the wrong way mate
quasi ledge
In some situations its not slow because of Venomous Wounds- thats why its good
hollow bridge
Well I apologise if I didn't clearly state, hey hypothetically here, can Sin stilll be the same but just not based around venomous wounds. thats really what I am asking.
In some situations its not slow because of Venomous Wounds- thats why its good
@quasi ledge I don't understand how that makes sense
either the spec feels good because its slow and does damage and people like that, or it feels good because you can stack haste and meme it up as per 8.3
quasi ledge
Get rid of it and you'll potentially run into issues where its pointless to multi dot as its more damage to just spam Mut/Env as energy is static
vestal wren
i actually think sin scales a bit to fast with more targets
energy regeneration gets very fast absurdly high
hollow bridge
yes, and pressing FOK can even feel bad as you are constantly energy capping so the only way to fix it to be fok into finisher is high crit
vestal wren
if blizz would want to get rid of multi dotting they could just make crimson provide energy regeneration
hollow bridge
but sin isn't taken in dungeon slice/m+ which is the most common scenario we are talking about right?
warm drift
why isnt it taken?
balmy condor
Sin was viable all of last patch
And the patch before
And in 8.0
It kinda sucked during reaping cause outlaw was so strong
hollow bridge
sure i know, i played it the whole expansion
balmy condor
Well if you know why would you say the opposite
hollow bridge
Most people i played with wanted me to reroll outlaw
warm drift
utility
hollow bridge
also falls back to the whole i cna go out and smash TB/env if i want to
i guess you're saying that it was viable meaning damage was good enough
vestal wren
you don't see a lot of players on assassination on beta due to tuning
balmy condor
Sin is fine
hollow bridge
i'm definitely not pushing 25s
balmy condor
Then the difference between outlaw and sin shouldn’t affect you adversely enough to fail keys
hollow bridge
sure but i wasn't talking about timing keys, im talking abotu the hypothetical of venomous wounds not being essential to the spec. damage profile is, now veno wounds is HOW the damage profile exists and as Fuu said, in multi target scenarious veno wounds means u can drop haste because you energy regen is high enough as a baseline
vestal wren
reality is, that the community expects you to pick meta specs
hollow bridge
My discussion point is, if thats changed and made so its not based around bleed ticks then the spec can feel great both in AE and ST
im not disagreeing with that fuu
vestal wren
so even if you can do m+ keys on a specific level easy regardless of spec you will be discriminated by the community by doing so
what is rly interessting is that perception can change
hollow bridge
im just saying my whole point for the last hour or whatever time i've taken up of everyone which i am thankful for is that veno wounds doesn't need to be tied to bleed ticks
vestal wren
if your entire class sucks
balmy condor
I personally think if you take energy away from bleed ticks, the spec will actually feel worse in every way outside of maybe world quests
hollow bridge
What if its to do with poison ticks? and has a cap?
so with the change brought in via SL that attacking from stealth has 100% poison chance
balmy condor
That’s the same thing just shoved into a different box
Dashing scoundrel exists
In sl
hollow bridge
haste ticks on poison ticks bring in energy regen, but then the damage profile of bleed is just that to boost damage, not control the flow of the spec
yeah and Dashing looks awesome as it seems to have syngery with crit rather than haste
quasi ledge
That makes AoE just 2 buttons
hollow bridge
which crit also has synergy with seal of fate etc
vestal wren
e.g. its fine to play ww in raids while people would say you are stupid/hurting your raid for playing subtlety in raid in 8.3.
and both did peform equally bad
hollow bridge
i think making veno wounds tick off poison is completely different, you spread it with FOK in AE and u can then choose to do rupture versus env
if mob will die before total duration of a rupture its better to FOK env than to FOK rupture
balmy condor
I just don’t like the idea tbh
hollow bridge
damage profile is changed from upfront to over time and apm can remain the same, but its not ruining the spec
balmy condor
And that’s not changing from this conversation
hollow bridge
just giving more and varied options
warm drift
but for what?
vestal wren
i lik conversations on gameplay changes
hollow bridge
well its an interesting decision in combat to try and guage if you rupture or envenom
atm, you always need to ensure you have rupture up
warm drift
yeah and then can env into prio
vestal wren
is it bad to ensure that you have your dots running if its the main damage source of the spec?
hollow bridge
sure, but im saying changing from bleed ticks to poison ticks creates more avenue of gameplay over different content
look at feral druid, it can go around in open world and ez mode content and just mash Ferocious bite
but in raids their main damage source or a lot of their damage comes from empowered bleeds
similar thing could be done for sin rogues by moving veno wounds from bleed ticks to poison ticks
quasi ledge
Can it though? :p
Its no different than Assass spamming Mut and Env in world content
vestal wren
season 2 bfa
hollow bridge
i think because of veno wounds
quasi ledge
Unless bleeds are massively buffed causing issues elsewhere, then it will turn it into a 2 button spec outside of pure ST
vestal wren
people did spam env in mass aoe because they thought it would be the best way to play.
But limited themself to allow this gameplay only if they took a specific trait
quasi ledge
I also don't enjoy even more ramp up time
vestal wren
even tho there was no evidence that the azerite trait had a big impact on the damage profile change
what i want to say is, you can limit yourself to dismiss a specific gameplay even if it might be the best for your situation by thinking its not optimal/good
hollow bridge
hmm i was going to give another hypothetical but i think fuu answered it already. if mob dies in say 10 seconds in a dungeon, its still better to rupture it because veno wounds will give energy back if it didn't fully tick out... so the only thing im suggesting is that if it didn't do that and pressing 1 extra env versus rupture is more interesting. hmm i'll go and think about that myself and stop wasting time from others. I thought it would be cool to make that choice, but it seems most players enjoy pressing rupture before env anyways.
i think i understand the appeal of sin being the only melee dot spec besides feral right?
or does UH dk fit dot gameplay too?
balmy condor
The appeal is a slow rogue spec for me
hollow bridge
right that too
vestal wren
a way to make applying ruptre less apealing would be to remove the energy gain when a target dies
warm drift
i like pressing rupture yes but i get ur point
hollow bridge
curious did u play the crit build anyway?
balmy condor
I did
warm drift
yeah
vestal wren
it would mean you need to be more careful where you apply rupture
balmy condor
All season
hollow bridge
i read raaz suggested that even in 8.3 u could raid with crit instead of expedient
fuu i dont think anyone wants that
sounds like 2 steps back
vestal wren
but i don't think it would be good design wise given the energy refund is making the spec more accessable
balmy condor
I kinda want that tbh
hollow bridge
because in my world it wasn't that rupture isn't a good button to press, it wasj ust that the energy wasn't dependant on it
but i think i get it more, slow spec, dot style
yeah it certainly is
balmy condor
Rupture sniping for energy isn’t fun or rewarding imo
hollow bridge
its actually awful to level via sin until veno wounds 😛
because u dont get rupture energy back
sure whispyr, i dont think anyone likes thats but we are talking about atm u are actively encourged through game design to rupture always
unless the target dies in the next global
vestal wren
fuu i dont think anyone wants that
but it would achive the goal to make applying rupture in solo content and m+ more strategic
and wasn't that a part of the concern?
hollow bridge
sure, it would do that, but as i said if thats my goal moving veno wounds to poison ticks could do that too no?
balmy condor
Well if no one likes rupture sniping, get rid of it
vestal wren
^
quasi ledge
I enjoy it:p
hollow bridge
cos then its whats total hp of mob? its 4000, env does 1k rupture does 1.8k but over time, i could just try to spam env to kill in less globals/time
balmy condor
Get rid of showbiz too
vestal wren
its just not a solution that sounds good becuase it removes some qol
hollow bridge
showbiz?
LMAO
oh the person who said they enjoy it
but its not used to snipe right
its just u get percent of energy cost back due to veno ticks
do u know how it works mechanically fuu like if i rupture for 25 seconds and game calculates that veno wound energy ticks would total say 120 energy
balmy condor
I don’t think the QoL is necessary tbh
hollow bridge
then the mob dies at like 15 seconds left do i get 60% of that 120 energy upon death?
balmy condor
If you’re able to snipe, you’re able to multidot, if you’re able to multidot, you don’t need to snipe
hollow bridge
noooo, now you're making me like my idea even more then...of moving veno wound to poison ticks
balmy condor
The niche is that theres an add that lives for a VERY short amount of time
hollow bridge
it also means that it makes poisons more primary to sin
balmy condor
And that’s just not something that happens tbh
hollow bridge
i dont know, i can think of plenty of scenarios in raids where adds die in less than 10 seconds
vex
hivemind
maybe not in mythic actually...
balmy condor
Thanks for proving my point
hollow bridge
we are making the same point only difference is that if u didn't get energy back from rupture upon death, it would still be fine to put as many "dots" on all the targets because the dot is just the damage profile, as opposed to say an AE finisher with no dot component
vestal wren
well
sleek cargo
i wish they would redesign poison bomb so say an on use after you envenom, after envenom you have a 4 second window to activate poison bomb, doing X damage over 2 sec with a 30sec (or whatever CD) that last row in Assass feels so bad
hollow bridge
is it better to press ae spender with no energy regen component versus just multi dot to x degree THEN use said finisher
ie crimson tempest
yeah benjimuss a lot of us want PB changed
balmy condor
What’s an ae
vestal wren
if crimson dot would provide energy regeneration you could drop rupture in aoe
hollow bridge
AE is the older school way of saying it from back in EQ days
vestal wren
quasi ledge
The sniping part isn't mandatory, it's just a nice bonus and feeds into the next/priority mob if one of your Ruptured mobs dies sooner than expected. It makes AoE etc more engaging tbh than having energy tied to poisons where id just spam FoK instead
hollow bridge
do u think that would be better fuu?
i read someone's idea as make CT just apply AOE rupture for reduced time
warm drift
sounds like feral
hollow bridge
i miss FOK Spam
vestal wren
no energy return from rupture on target death would mean that you would need to optimize your rupture applications more
hollow bridge
with primarl wrath?
hmm okay im a fan of that then now
mindlessly rupturing
also maybe its just me but i miss rupture damage profile from legion being substantial
quasi ledge
Sounds shite in low keys
hollow bridge
but no one here cares about open world content or low keys showbiz
quasi ledge
Run into the Shadow Priest problem
quasi ledge
When I say low keys, I don't mean +8s
hollow bridge
ramp up time in this game is a problematic design imo
quasi ledge
Just anything where mobs die fast
hollow bridge
where if u dont get into a grove on mob packs u dont do damage feelsbad
quasi ledge
And there's the issue. You not thinking about the other 60% of players :p
hollow bridge
after talking with everyone for so long i now actually understand why the dev's have a problem
balancing the game around the hardest content makes the most sense for players who tackle that content
pliant apex
Jimmy is sub simply going to be better than sin?
hollow bridge
but then in other areas of the game where maybe the higher player count experience it, could be why feedback is often so varied
pliant apex
In SL
hollow bridge
yes
pliant apex
Hmmm
hollow bridge
Fuu has told us that with Theory crafting
vestal wren
i think most specs are designed to have a good baseline even if you are only casually playing
pliant apex
so I CAN get by with assa? Without ever learning sub?
hollow bridge
wonder how many sin rogues dont play with poisons
probably more than im wanting to actually know
vestal wren
but sin is already fairly fool proof
hollow bridge
of course
pliant apex
Really ? Lol
dusk narwhal
These sorts of conversations and mix/maxing isnt really for the casual playerbase
hollow bridge
sin just won't be topping the meters
vestal wren
if you look at subtlety
hollow bridge
unless everyone in your raid team is worse than you
pliant apex
ahh
hollow bridge
this is a class discord not a TC min maxxing discord
vestal wren
you will find a lot of times people asking what they should do if they don't have shadow dance charges when they use symbols
balmy condor
The people who come here will want to min max
vestal wren
what kind of indicates that they did not understand the base of the class and just use all cd's when they are up
hollow bridge
shouldn't a good sub player always ensure at least 1 SD charge for when symbops coming off cd?
vestal wren
but on assassination you can do that, and don't break your dps
royal lantern
tbh,thats the play for quite some classes
hollow bridge
i know whispyr its why i came here, but it doesn't mean the scope of discussion should ONLY be min maxing or get out
royal lantern
either you use everything on cd,or you just use everything togheter,no matter what
hollow bridge
sure, but i mean if u did get your TB window burst right and got lucky say gorals prok with DD and crit all the DD procs
its noticable
vestal wren
^ most classes atm are designed to:
- use cd's when they are up
- use what lights up
hollow bridge
as opposed to the sin rogue who just TBs on cd but doesn't mix max completely, andi know it was in the leagues of 100s of dps, but over 3-5 mins it'll add up
okay another hypothetical
balmy condor
It’ll add up to the 100’s of dps yes
hollow bridge
should blizz design a spec that has no cds or procs
vestal wren
e.g. in bfa
hollow bridge
and just does raw damage?
balmy condor
No
hollow bridge
is that possible or would it just be too op
vestal wren
esp. early you could use everything on cd and it would not make a diffrence in ouptut
balmy condor
It would be very underwhelming unless it’s tuned crazy high
quasi ledge
Like old Shadow Priest? :)
vestal wren
yet people still tried to min/max dps gain with things that actually did not prove to be a damage win
hollow bridge
exactly showbiz
quasi ledge
Yeah, shit until OP borrowed power is added
hollow bridge
nah back in like olden years of WoW
before modern wow
it was good
maybe not for raiding
but i remember shadow being key in TBC cos of the unique mana buff
quasi ledge
Thats not the spec being good though
fading wigeon
Hey guys how many stacks of coral do you normally consume the stacks at on single target?
dusk narwhal
I liked the passive raid buffs there use to be. Spriest, balance, shaman
balmy condor
Dunno, I don’t remember hearing of any magical coral numbers
I think you just pull with CDs and call it a day
vestal wren
25+ iirc
but knock yoruself out:
actions.cds+=/use_item,name=ashvanes_razor_coral,if=debuff.razor_coral_debuff.down|debuff.conductive_ink_debuff.up&target.health.pct<32&target.health.pct>=30|!debuff.conductive_ink_debuff.up&(debuff.razor_coral_debuff.stack>=25-10*debuff.blood_of_the_enemy.up|fight_remains<40)&buff.symbols_of_death.remains>8```Ah ok perfect thank you!
balmy condor
Stack>=25-10*debuff.blood
fading wigeon
Oh wow that looks too complicated for me. I just read what you guys say lol
balmy condor
What the
balmy condor
Ye but weird syntax I guess
balmy condor
Debuff.blood.up sounds like a Boolean
hollow bridge
showbiz the spec did good damage too, it wasn't like it had no place, sure it was not the best damage spec
vestal wren
actions.cds+=/use_item,name=ashvanes_razor_coral,if=debuff.razor_coral_debuff.down|target.time_to_die<20
actions.cds+=/use_item,name=ashvanes_razor_coral,if=(!talent.exsanguinate.enabled|!talent.subterfuge.enabled)&debuff.vendetta.remains>10-4*equipped.azsharas_font_of_power
actions.cds+=/use_item,name=ashvanes_razor_coral,if=(talent.exsanguinate.enabled&talent.subterfuge.enabled)&debuff.vendetta.up&(exsanguinated.garrote|azerite.shrouded_suffocation.enabled&dot.garrote.pmultiplier>1)```sins conditions
balmy condor
Just looks weird imo
vestal wren
1 is true
0 is false
so you can use value*statement to enable/dissable something
hollow bridge
thank you everyone for your input
will be lurking later and trying to main sin for SL 😛
vestal wren
have fun, sin will def. not stay undertuned ^^
sleek cargo
🙂
pliant apex
The people who come here will want to min max
@balmy condor that statement sets a very dangerous precedent. I believe lot of casual players who nevertheless wish to learn and be competitive come to class discord, including beginners.
It generalises ALL people who come here. I firmly believe that’s not true
vestal wren
the idea behind class discords is not to be a helpdesk for beginners
rather a place you can discuss things like strategy, gear decisions, opener, optimization, etc
sterile jackal
if some1 is casual then wowhead (IV?) guides are all they need
vestal wren
the perception that it is a personal helpdesk for beginners was set by players who want to get rid of those questions in their streams
i know r/wow would disagree on it
guides are for beginners, discords are social places
vale plank
It’s an important distinction, I would agree ^
strange lichen
!guides
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Guides:
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide
marble hemlock
guides are for beginners, discords are social places
@vestal wren
Pmuch this
theres a lot of people who expect the giga-minmax explanations and setups for written guides, but due to their basic nature of being written and needing to be updated/concise as to not provide too much information to overwhelm a reader, they cant really be as detailed as they would need to to appeal to the more advanced and experienced players
people often forget that
vestal wren
You can make guides about optimization
or a section in your guide what to do to get more out of your char
thats how i did it in legion
marble hemlock
yeah, thats one way to try to appeal to the more experienced players, but those players generally don't read a written guide anymore in the first place
marble hemlock
yeah
my personal experience just tells me that people who are interested in a much more detailed and complex process of improving, once theyve hit an intermediate or even advanced level, do so on discords
whereas written guides are often easier to digest and re-read than trying to learn the basics and foundations of a spec via discord
vestal wren
i think a lot of the higher world raiders don't want to spend time in discord to gain improvements when they are able to farm content to get the same or more value from better equipment
marble hemlock
well, at that point you just talk to people you know who play the same class
and do very boss-specific setups and strategies
vestal wren
the pipeline exist even to ask non public but is not used
marble hemlock
its just a continuation of seeking out more informed viewpoints, which automatically means a smaller and smaller grp of people can be considered "peers" or can educate you on those points
guides are nice for very broad strokes and basic foundational stuff, discord is a bit more narrow and works best for intermediate/advanced players, and for top-end raiders its usually just talking to 2-3 people you know are as good or better than you to bounce around thoughts
thats how i see it anyway
vestal wren
i think having more data points is good in that sense
only taking the "from experience" way is letting room for optimization open, but is a common approach as you just lined out
marble hemlock
data is often difficult to get at the top-end due to how specialized the situation youre finding yourself in is
theres seldom more than a handful of logs available to sift through, and simming gets more and more complicated when you try to adjust the APL to account for whatever situation youre finding yourself in
vestal wren
thats why you can communicate those questions 😉
marble hemlock
i remember there was a lot of talk back during jaina progress about whether to multidot ballistas or the tide elemental and there was no real conclusive solution to it
vestal wren
as mentioned, this pipeline exists but is not used
marble hemlock
i think ultimately people just multidotted ballistas when they had downtime on jaina in p1, and just garrote-multidotted but not ruptured the elemental to not over-nuke it
vestal wren
thats a very encounter/group dependent question
and not directly related to improving your gameplay by getting more information to make educated decisions
marble hemlock
well, its ultimately data thats helpful to make the grp decision, when you only have so much room for dealing dmg to an add to not overnuke it, you wanna be able to decide whos allowed to do it and who isnt
based on who gains the most
uunat was somewhat similar after they nerfed add hp once, suddenly it died too fast and healed back up 😄
marble bear
dumb question but sin now in prepatch is spent points on SnD> Rupture > Envenom Right?
marble hemlock
for maintenance, yes. but in your opener you will want to prioritize rupture over SnD first
marble bear
makes sense put dot up asap
im excited. I haven't played rogue since I gave up on it lol
marble hemlock
i mean i suppose you could just say
rupture > snd > envenom
at all times
you never want rupture to drop
same for snd, really. but if you HAVE to choose between either of them, rupture always takes precedence (unless the mob is about to disappear and dots do not keep ticking)
which is a very rare fringe-case
marble bear
do we use ambus at all?
marble hemlock
when you use vanish as a dps CD you get 1 ambush in usually
and when using blindside ofc ^^
but when running subterfuge you wanna garrote twice in your opener for pandemic, and since the bis azerite right now includes 1 SS trait thats 6CP already, so using ambush as one of your first 3 GCDs would make you overcap quite hard so you dont use it in the opener
your second vanish you already have a non-empowered garrote running though, so you only garrote once on the 3rd GCD for full pandemic duration, and have the 1st/2second one open depending on how many CP you start with when vanishing
hallow gale
what are the main differences between assassination and subtlety? which one is easier to master in pvp and who does usually perform better in arenas?
vestal wren
its probably better to ask in #pvp the spec channels are usually pve focused. A lot of our pvp players don't read them
hallow gale
ty
tardy vessel
@marble hemlock so it's not wise to wait for the non-empowered garrote to run it's course, then vanish and double garrote for pandemic?
if we have a non-empowered garrote running and we only use one garrote from vanish, that's enough? if so, TIL lol
marble hemlock
yes
and the other way around. thats why you wanna let empowered bleeds expire before refreshing them, or you overwrite the empowered with an unempowered one
balmy condor
Ye
The damage is calculated from the dot you’re applying, so whatever is already on the boss is just a duration buff
stiff frost
so for single target is crucible of flame used on CD ?
balmy condor
if you're using it, yes
vale quest
they gonna buff sin aoe inSL beta?
balmy condor
who knows
strange lichen
Yes they will
surreal solar
annnnnnnnnd where are you seeing this? @strange lichen
drifting cosmos
Any recent rogue tunings on beta?
balmy condor
depends what you mean by recent
drifting cosmos
Like this past week
balmy condor
conduit tuning
drifting cosmos
Did ours get buff?
balmy condor
90% of them got hammered into the ground
low girder
unless you're a frost mage most of the strong ones got nerfed
so it's not just us at least
and a lot of the weak ones got buffed
balmy condor
also trinket tuning
drifting cosmos
Well but us isn't strong isn't it
low girder
well yeah but all the ranged too
drifting cosmos
Yea some more balance on ranged is nice
I don't want to be rejected in m+ for being a melee
drifting cosmos
The other day my friend told me in Chinese servers, joining pug m+ is so hard, you have to play the popular spec or they just gonna reject you anyway
Aka dh outlul bm
drifting cosmos
Yea I thought that's ridicules
fleet whale
also Chinese players love outlaw for some odd reason
low girder
i never had an issue pugging as sin
low girder
i mean i played both so i guess that helped
fleet whale
yes look at how many chinese outlaw rogues there are on logs
drifting cosmos
And yea here pugs look at io I think that's more fair
fleet whale
most pugs are just happy that you are a rogue
regardless of spec, at least in my experience
fleet whale
There were barely any sub rogues in 8.3 so i didn't even consider them lol
drifting cosmos
Yea I was doing some PvP, so 3 sets just to play sin
Don't have the energy to play sub
strange python
There wasn't any reason to be a sub rogue outside of spec loyalty in 8.3. Your single target pve deeps wasn't bettr than sin by any margin and you had less aoe than either of the other 2 options.
I mean you COULD, but you'd be putting in a lot more effort than the results would show.
fleet whale
you played sub in 8.3 if you really liked seeing big evis crits
shrewd helm
@fleet whale the Chinese love outlaw because they always got 3 buff or 5 buff because of anti gambling laws.
strange python
proper sage
regal cloud
ember rover
6 BUFF POG
worldly orbit
two questions. is snapshotting still a thing, and should i still open with double garrote > rupture
vestal wren
snapshotting is a thing with subterfuge and nightstalker
marsh idol
sub out and sin back in lads?
vestal wren
wdym polly?
marsh idol
ohh my friend just told me that dratnos was saying sin is stronger than sub rn in beta
honestly dont know much about it just memeing
marsh idol
yeah read my message again
vestal wren
dratnos was saying sin is stronger than sub rn in beta
if he did he might not be that informed about beta balance
sick scarab
i bet sin will scale better
warm drift
scale with what?
sick scarab
gear
amber quail
@vestal wren fast clarification: the sims pinned are ST or MT? Also for sub? Ty a lot
warm drift
not sure about that
delicate bone
dratnos has been playing like 0 wow and 100% PoE lately
amber quail
I feel good much more every in beta SIN. Need intensive therapy on NF, but feeling becomes better every patch.
vestal wren
the legendary sim is st
amber quail
Still hate “melee” as first dmg on details
vestal wren
the other sim (in the covenants section) states in the title what it is
vestal wren
i think those are the more interesting ones
amber quail
Yes but I miss the color as ST/M+
I minded that was better/good red/orange
My fail
Yes, this is why I ask
I’m pretty more m+ player
vestal wren
the main content of beta is m+ atm
solid vault
Snd putting us out of stealth x_x
vestal wren
and if you don't play beta then the chart is relatively unrelevant
it would just be a "quick look at this weeks balance" if you don't
quasi scroll
For current BFA stuff, what azerite build would be good for both M+ and ST/raid?
3 SS + EB + HOD + NP?
quasi scroll
I had checked the pins, looks like distinct traits for M+ and ST, I was asking what's the recommended hybrid build
lilac robin
!sims
prisma monolithBOT
Simulations:
Herodamage: https://www.herodamage.com/rogue/
Bloodmallet: https://bloodmallet.com/index.html
minor thicket
is it weird that when I sim it wants me to play subterfuge with no SS and instead 2 x DD with 1 NP?
willow oracle
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
minor thicket
anyone on the above ^
balmy condor
Recommended hybrid build would be 3x SS
Also @minor thicket thats a little weird, but not completely unheard of
minor thicket
i thought so....
so subterfuge and just 3 x SS
not sure why the SIM said the output i mentioned
balmy condor
Tyty
minor thicket
ty for taking a look
lusty saddle
ok so i just started playing my rogue again. why cant i see crippling poison on any mob?
balmy condor
After vendetta @minor thicket, CLF is only like 0.7% down if you don’t care bout it
@lusty saddle “can’t see” meaning what exactly? Can’t see it on the nameplate, can’t see it on the unit frame?
Sounds like an addon is hiding it
minor thicket
cool thanks @balmy condor much appreciated as always
balmy condor
lusty saddle
@balmy condor i cant see it as a debuff and mobs aint getting slowed
balmy condor
Hm
Curious indeed
Did you try a relog/reapplication of crippling
Might be some visual bug where it shows you have crippling but don’t
lusty saddle
yes i have. not a single mob is getting slowed
balmy condor
Ye idk
If you have crippling on, and youre hitting a non-boss monster
It should slow
That’s really weird
lusty saddle
yeah i know its wierd as hell. i have mained a rogue so its not that i am new or smth
will try a duel after this raid
sweet pecan
so double dose is actually a good azarite trait now?
balmy condor
in single target yes
SS was good single target mostly because we had crazy haste
with that gone, we go back to DD meta
surreal solar
DD was always pretty good, Corruption just boosted SS through the ceiling
fleet whale
yeah you could still run a DD crit corruption/tendy build if you wanted too
hell you could run a DD expedient build if you wanted too
placid dawn
So, i heard sin is the new big boi rogue after sub conduit nerf
we are back bois
40apm gang
balmy condor
definitely not
ionic vault
balmy condor
you heard wrong foo
placid dawn
that sucks, i though the deeper dagger nerf was big
vestal wren
sin just seems tuned a bit to low relative to the other 2
balmy condor
^
vestal wren
outlaw/sub are not that far appart now what makes both a decent pick in m+ on beta
placid dawn
god, i just spent 5 minutes on a dummy wondering why my energy regen was trash
then i realized my poisons werent on
feelscasualman
vestal wren
rip
lusty nacelle
!guides
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Guides:
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide
sterile reef
ah ok
vestal wren
for wpvp
is worldpvp even a think, i don't remember it being actively played
balmy condor
some people actually tend to care
warmode has some niche people who are actually pretty into it
vestal wren
you mean the raids that abused phasing to gank people on hot points with interessting worldquests?
balmy condor
there's those people as well, yes
vestal wren
that's literally the only worldpvp that i saw throughout the entirety of bfa
balmy condor
I ran into a couple guild groups, hardcore pvpers, etc
vestal wren
don't get me wrong, worldpvp could work well
but i never saw a not one sided worldpvp happen
and it was usually on the expense of people doing their daily routine and using warmode to get the extra reward
warmode only introduced 2 issues, #1 the mentioned and #2 that you need to ask for wm on/off if you open up groups for specific content
nerveless enough rant about warmode 😛
balmy condor
:P
bright lintel
damn seems like I actually have to start learning to play outlaw 
based on the current sims
vestal wren
both outlaw and sub look good for m+ in sl currently
bright lintel
going to miss 40apm gang 
cunning blaze
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
shadow tulip
You are not entirely wrong about WM, @vestal wren
And it's 80% of the time horde raping alliance 
Sadly ANY resemblance of faction balance is so long gone, that IDK what needs to happen now
surreal solar
I think part of that is server/shard based, all I ever encounter is roving packs of 10-30 alliance just smothering any horde in sight
shadow tulip
I'm EU, so that might change it
I've played half a year as horde (guild wanted to migrate from a small alli major server to a big server that was sadly horde dominated so we changed faction as well) and I couldn't bear being horde that long. It was pretty funny tho, Barely met any alliance resisting
grizzled jay
i like world pvp, but i dislike War Mode having bonuses so a bunch of droolers have WM enabled and don't put up a fight
@vestal wren
faint harness
the WM incentive should be in killing other players
not 10% more resources
right now ppl have this silent agreement that we only activate the warmode for resources, dont touch me and i dont touch you
celest igloo
I agree, it should increase honor received or something specific to PVP.
but if it's red it's dead so sucks for them to not get ready for me 🙂 just easier for me
vestal wren
i think warmode would be not used if it was not linked to some benefits
so blizz did make a "smart" decision to then make a statement that the worldpvp engagement is high
celest igloo
Maybe a mobility buff with the loss of flying soon? lol idk
faint harness
if you get said resources from killing alliance
it might be worth
maybe you should get anima from alliance corpses in SL
celest igloo
That's not a bad idea
faint harness
you can still have the extra % rewards, just put them in alliance corpses
or horde
echo gust
hello everyone!
verbal mantle
hello there
echo gust
Doesnt look like sin rogues are going to be good for beginning of SL. Any updates to our best covenant or professions we should go in SL?
I hear sepsis has alot of utility, so i may go that route.
verbal mantle
Atm Sin is a bit undertuned compared to the other rogue spec yes
for any SL accurate informations, I suggest you to look at the pins (top right corner)
Second pin is about Shadowlands
best covenant is currently Kyrian, for now
echo gust
ok thanks! i dont see anything about professions though, any comments tips? i think its dumb they forcing the gear making specs
verbal mantle
i really dont know about professions tho, i guess skinning/lw fits very well
and yw
echo gust
Hmm, yea but engineering kinda got the shaft eh?
verbal mantle
i personally do have Engineering ye, cause its handy esp in m+ for the cr
but will see, depends on your guild too, if one person is assigned to be tailor/lw/blacksmith in order to craft all leg etc..
echo gust
CR?
yea if only grenades did not have a cast time and competitive damage, engy would be on a whole dif level.
verbal mantle
cr is combat res
echo gust
oh my bad im so used to BR (battle Res)
verbal mantle
it's fine too 
echo gust
wonder why the patch is so long, they must be sneaking in the undead event
verbal mantle
well there are enough serious reasons rn to this mess 😄
our conv is more a #wow-general topic now tho!
fading crane
Doesnt look like sin rogues are going to be good for beginning of SL. Any updates to our best covenant or professions we should go in SL?
@echo gust not good?
theyre great for killing everybody in enemy cities
echo gust
haha
shadow tulip
Honestly
echo gust
i meant overall, like pvp, M+, and raiding
echo gust
im ally
and warmode feels like constant pressure from multiple horde groups finding kills for quests....
echo gust
what was said?
shadow tulip
Give bonus honor and stuff, or "silent agreement"
LIKE LUL?
I've barely come across a horde player that doesn't instantly charge at me
Even if they are lower geared
Or the CONSTANT hunting parties nearly in every zone
echo gust
yea the consistent hunting parties are bad
i think the only counter to this is ruin gaming
shadow tulip
At one time, I had to wait 15+ mins for a WQ
echo gust
ruin gaming decimates horde usually
shadow tulip
SO that miraculously there were no hordies arraving and I could take the kill
royal lantern
people instant kill you BECAUSE you are undegeared OR because rhey are 10people
like
you and 1 guy from the other faction doing the same wq? always nothing happens
3 more show up? somone is gonna die then
shadow tulip
Honestly
I don't remember the last time I saw a horde player alone
it's like they are multiplying
echo gust
the problem is and always will be faction imbalance
shadow tulip
Yea
echo gust
doing away with factions alliegence in WM would improve WPVP significantly
shadow tulip
At it seems like Blizz doesn't even care
Like right now, at this moment, faction assault is in Drustvar and OFC there are at least 5 hordies there killing everyone (1 healer as always) while the weekly quest is in Vol'dun
lament dove
it's funny, I only world pvp because it gives some extra thrill to have to watch out, and I usually only get into fights when I see a horde player jumped and try to help - usually 3-4 alliance arrives and kills me...
this is like 90% of the time
royal lantern
@shadow tulip people do that for conquere of azeroth tbh
that title will be impossible too get once SL is out
cus how do you wanna farm that much honor when almost nobody is in the bfa zones anymore
echo gust
i still want to see faction allegiance disbanded
shadow tulip
At least during legion assaults?
verbal mantle
lament dove
assassinating other players:P
lament dove
he the real assassin
shadow tulip
And not even a rogue
Honestly, I don't think the 25-30% WM bonus is that much, when horde gets 10 too
If they did not get any, that would be a different story
But like, let's be real here for a moment. What does your 30% bonus worth when you're dead?
Exorsus switching dorf for progress doesn't help either
They will go back
royal lantern
except that it isnt like cloak at all 
shadow tulip
Tesco budget cloak
fleet whale
the regular dwarf racial is better
lofty pecan
hey guys i dont have blood , focusing iris works fine for major right
echo gust
i mean its not cloak but its pseduo cloak
fading crane
constant hunting parties you say?
my friend
have you ever killed an enemy of the opposite faction with 15 rogues?
its like a piranha feast
i kill everything that moves even if it's part of my faction
none of my friends are safe from me
fleet whale
meh, the ability itself is still fine
delicate dagger
is assass going to be viable in m+ for 15s or am I gonna have to do outlaw?
fleet whale
some pug leaders are meta slaves though, so that's something to consider 😛
but with friends or guildies any spec is fine
fleet whale
when i get out of black character screen phase
i'll let you know
nope, nothing new
sand otter
So i need some criticism
If you look at the last fight i feel like i was doing fantastic, we did wipe (its our new roster for SL practice) but i am curious personally what i can do better
sand otter
lol, i need real feedback though.
shadow tulip
IDK, did Vexi on outlaw
sand otter
well im talking as a whole not necessarily one fight.
balmy condor
If no one’s taken a look after my shower, let me know
sand otter
its no worries.
prisma yoke
i looked at it, but i'm in no position to give advice 
sand otter
xD
i feel on single target im doing "ok" but i need to work on dotting better for AoE/cleave fights
sand otter
Yeah i agree, but that means 2 sets of gear lmao
i do have 2 sets, so maybe i can make it work
idk
prisma yoke
technically a sin ST and sin multiT are also possible
sand otter
True
prisma yoke
esp with azerite traits
shadow tulip
Still need 2 sets of gear tho
I'm just a pleb too
I'm just one that play since forever
sand otter
did anyone ever read the rogue april fools stuff this year?
shadow tulip
I don't remember
sand otter
cant stop laughing every time i read them
shadow tulip
Maybe?
sand otter
Rogue
Rogues who save their Sap can now make it into a nice syrup.
Rogues who use Cloak of Shadows, Vanish, and Shadowstep in rapid succession now disappear from the game altogether.
shadow tulip
sand otter
the 2019 was insanely funny
In an effort to make the Rogue class appeal to a younger audience, Shadow Dance has been given some more modern styles:
Shadow Yeet
Shadow Floss
Shadow Dab
shadow tulip
And 2020 so far ....
sand otter
To promote class fantasy, Vendetta has had its cooldown increased by 40 years.
And one of my favorites
Because you can't stop being children with abbreviations, Assassination has been renamed. It is now known as "Sneaky Stab Guy."
prisma yoke
the best one ever was the bandage healing tree
primal turret
Hello guys I need help with a Weak Aura. Im tracking both garrote rupture and Slice N Dice with progress bars. I want to make the bar glow when pandemic so i can refresh the habilites. Can i do It with defines values of time on the conditions or its there a better way?
I dont understand how does It work if the time Will the the same if i rupture with 4 5 or 6 CP
balmy condor
you can do it with conditions pretty easily
the time changes on rupture and slice, but garrote is constant
I'll explain it with garrote, and you can then apply it to the finishers
lean marten
pandemic occurs when reapplied with <30% remaining of original buff
balmy condor
pandemic is always a maximum of 30% of the duration of the newly applied dot. Since garrote is always 18 seconds, 18*0.3 is 5.4, so you can safely refresh a non-empowered garrote at 5.4 seconds
since rupture and slice change duration based on CP
you would have to have conditions that change based on the amount of combo points you have
if you have 4, the pandemic timer on rupture would be 20*0.3, and with 5, it would be 24
same concept applies to slice, 4 cp is 30*0.3, 5 cp is 36
so make a trigger that just tracks cp, and then in the conditions you can say if rupture < duration and cp = X, glow/change color, whatever you want