And that garrote is empowered now right
#assassination
balmy condor
sly sequoia
then have 5 points
sly sequoia
i use envenom
balmy condor
You can even garrote 3 times from stealth if you wanted to
Like in a dungeon
And all of them would be from subterfuge, so they would be empowered
balmy condor
Generally with sin, you try and get garrote and rupture up on your target
And then build combo points, dump into envenom
sly sequoia
ok i used to do this in a way
but with kidney shot
but i dont want to rush my self i want to listen to your explanation
balmy condor
Usually you don’t really want to use cheap shot or kidney shot
Because things are just going to die fast enough anyways
So the envenom or rupture in that case is faster
But you could definitely use kidney and cheap
So like in dungeons right
Let’s say you have 3-4 targets
sly sequoia
sin is bad at multi target
balmy condor
And you’re running with subterfuge now
That’s not entirely true
Because what did we just learn about subterfuge
sly sequoia
in my best interest i need to make them bleed while foucsing on one of them
posion and bleed
sly sequoia
yeah
balmy condor
And subterfuge let’s us get that effect for 3 seconds right
So we can apply 3 empowered, strong garrotes
To 3 different enemies
In those 3 seconds
sly sequoia
is it doable?
balmy condor
Easily
sly sequoia
pressing TAB sometimes choses the wrong enemy
sly sequoia
yeah
balmy condor
If you get fast enough you can also click them manually
sly sequoia
ok thats a good start
i guess vigor is next?
with this gear and this low level i will be running our of energy
sly sequoia
i dont want to interupt
balmy condor
Like you do your cheap shot, garrote
Maybe a rupture
And then now you have marked for death and max combo points
sly sequoia
but first talanet is?
balmy condor
The first row?
sly sequoia
but after 120 i change it to better finisher
balmy condor
further down
and that better poison talent
makes the leeching poison better as well
so that's pretty helpful
at 120 you would usually take elaborate planning though, yes
balmy condor
well the last really important row is the last one at level 100
and I guess the second to last as well, forgot about that
which do you prefer to talk about
sly sequoia
all of them
balmy condor
which first :P
balmy condor
situational
you can play with whatever you want, doesn't change too much
prey is okay, but if you're questing on your own, internal bleeding is going to give you some more damage
which is nice
but iron wire is also good when you're doing dungeons for example
right, cause with subterfuge
you get 3 garrotes out
and all of those garrotes will silence longer, and the enemies will deal reduced damage
so if you have multiple targets that you can garrote from stealth like that, iron wire is pretty good
sly sequoia
so iron wire would be good because already my garrote is strong
balmy condor
kind of
red pagoda
Especially if they're casters
balmy condor
not because your garrote is strong
but because you're able to get 3 of them out from stealth
balmy condor
adolin's got a good point though
with caster mobs
they're silenced
for a long time
can't cast anything, gg
balmy condor
ah see
sly sequoia
perfectly i guess
balmy condor
now you're getting it
exsanguinate also isn't very good without a lot of haste buffing your bleeds
which you usually don't have during leveling
even at max level, there's some setup required to make exsanguinate work right now
venom rush is the last talent
but you can probably see that it's pretty awful
sly sequoia
yeah
balmy condor
only works on 1 target, doesn't really give a lot of energy, no extra damage
really bad talent on that one
sly sequoia
not every target can be poisioned
balmy condor
well they can
but it only works on mutilate
remember, fan of knives spreads poisons
sly sequoia
yeah thats also
balmy condor
okay
sly sequoia
but Grimson
would have no place in my bar because
it also uses points
i am already using two other point moves
so idk\
balmy condor
well crimson tempest can be okay, that's our current max level choice for dungeons
but I agree with you
crimson tempest uses combo points like envenom and rupture does
so out questing, you're never going to use it
sly sequoia
envenom rapture and grimson would be crowded
balmy condor
and in dungeons, things probably die too fast
sly sequoia
yeah
balmy condor
okay so that means we're not taking crimson tempest
so its poison bomb or hidden blades
sly sequoia
point moves i feel like maintain rapture while using envenom for fast dmg from time to time right?
balmy condor
yep
balmy condor
sin actually has really really strong 2-3 target with subterfuge
sly sequoia
hitting and posioning multipule at once i mean
balmy condor
fan of knives handles that just fine
if you want more aoe, you could go hidden blades
but there's one issue with it
sly sequoia
which is?
balmy condor
once you get multiple targets, you don't mutilate right
you just use fan of knives to generate combo points
sly sequoia
mutilate?
balmy condor
yeah
that's only like 1-2 targets
after that, you're getting more out of fan of knives
so you're going to use fan of knives a lot
in bigger fights
which means hidden blades doesn't really have time to get more stacks right
so your first fan of knives is going to be pretty big
and the rest are basically normal
but poison bomb on the other hand, just does damage sometimes
and its aoe
sly sequoia
balmy condor
it fits right into what you were normally doing
sly sequoia
so
for better aoe
poision bomb
i but i need to sometimes guide my tank
to stay still
sly sequoia
ok
balmy condor
and get some extra fan of knives damage
sly sequoia
i need to give it a try
ok cool talents are somewhat done
unless you want to explain something
balmy condor
not really
that basically sums it up
I'm just trying to get you to think about the choices and what they do more logically
balmy condor
cause I can just tell you what to take
but you're not really learning from that right
sly sequoia
yeah
i find it more usefull
when a person explains it to me
and try to make me answer things
in order to fully understand
so
rotation
balmy condor
so whats the hard part
sly sequoia
i think you dont use the same talents as i do
so
how do we get a functional rotation out of this mess XD
sly sequoia
sure
balmy condor
what are the basic rotational ideas for assassination
sly sequoia
i guess
score points
and use them
and use things that score points again
while at it
maintain some things on the enemy
bleeding poison
balmy condor
sure, generate, and finish is a pretty big concept
bleeds and poisons
very good
poisons handle themselves just from hitting things
so we don't need to worry about that
sly sequoia
yeah
sly sequoia
one small knife and the enemy is poision
balmy condor
garrote and rupture
sly sequoia
yeah
sly sequoia
yeah
sly sequoia
garrote gives one point
balmy condor
cause we're taking subterfuge
sly sequoia
i guess yeah it gives the ability to use it 3 times
balmy condor
yeah but from stealth its also a really strong garrote
so we can start with a garrote
and then build some combo points
and then use a rupture
sly sequoia
so one sec
a rouge have three how can i explain it
three things
while stealth
breaking from stealth
and after stealth
the first two is toghater
so to be able to understand it furthur
what is used during what ?
balmy condor
stealth and breaking from stealth are the same thing
so we know garrote does extra damage from stealth
sly sequoia
ok
balmy condor
well you need to build combo points
for single target, that's mutilate
for aoe, that's fan of knives
sly sequoia
oh ok
sly sequoia
you can use team viewer if you would find it easier for you
next is using these points
rapture
balmy condor
and
sly sequoia
once every second max point bars
sly sequoia
yeah
balmy condor
and that's it
sly sequoia
that is everything?
balmy condor
yep
sly sequoia
my bar seems kind of empty
sly sequoia
and wow gave me three and ahalf pages of skills
balmy condor
yep, but rotationally, that's it
balmy condor
no, rotation is just what you do in combat
sly sequoia
what about vendeta and the other cool stuff
balmy condor
vendetta and toxic blade and vanish is basically just on cooldown
whenever its up, feel free to use them
sly sequoia
will you be kind enough and explain further? how to put the other skills in use?
balmy condor
sap/blind is just control out of combat, cheap shot is basically never used outside of pvp, kidney is a nice stun for when you need to control something
cloak immunes magic damage
evasion immunes auto attacks
crimson vial is a heal
those are all pretty self-explanatory
sly sequoia
so far i have been good enough
maybe tried to ask good question from time to time
maybe gave a good answer
but here is where i lose it and really it will start to show how dump i am XD
in which order should i put "the other skills" ?
sly sequoia
because some of them uses energy
balmy condor
like feint, yeah
sly sequoia
and might
cause problems with the main rotation skill
is there a way to put them on one gaint rotation?
sly sequoia
because further than number 6 no one can reach
balmy condor
well usually that's where other buttons come in
Q, E, R, F, G,
shift modifiers
v
etc
sly sequoia
i never used them i mean
balmy condor
time to start then
sly sequoia
ofc i have them qerfg
balmy condor
you can't just use 1-5 and call it a day
balmy condor
keybinds are in the settings
balmy condor
then what
sly sequoia
action bar?
sly sequoia
so other skills are situational
balmy condor
yep
sly sequoia
where do i find these situations to start forming my action bar
training dummy?
the thing that never dies?
balmy condor
well you wouldn't ever use them on a training dummy
cause you don't need to stun it
and it doesn't deal damage to you
so why would you need to use any of those
you run into those situations in dungeons and questing, etc
sly sequoia
so right now i start playing with this action bar thats heavy on the right side only XD then i add the other skills?
sour cliff
Low on hp--use crimson vial. About to die cuz too much attacking you--use vanish. About to get hit with aoe damage, use front. Etc.
There's no rotation your guy just gets a tool box of options.
balmy condor
yep yep
frail fractal
did u activate all action bars?
balmy condor
yep
sour cliff
I use ElvUI.
Has a keybind mode where you can hover over an action bar button and type whatever key you want and it'll hotkey it
sly sequoia
what is elvui
balmy condor
addon
sly sequoia
add on?
balmy condor
replaces your ui
radiant sorrel
Elvui is a god send
warm star
keybind mode comes with 9.0 by default without any addons btw
shy heron
correct me if I'm wrong but dominos has had that functionality for a long time now, hasn't it?
dark crag
I think he means default ui function and yes bar addons have it since a long time
graceful vale
Jesus @balmy condor you're patient! Should have linked him a guide and told him to jog on 😂
There's questions and then there's whatever the fuck Porthin was doing
gray pivot
I'm looking for a faint aura that lets you see when to put the choking and bleeding back on.
?
serene osprey
Are ptr sims out yet?
proper sage
not yet
pliant apex
guys, will I able to compete as ASSA in first tier raid in SL? new rogue here and its the only spec I know as of now. I dont want to confuse/overawe myself learning sub as well
was thinking, id rather master assa somewhat
whats yalls' opinion on this approach?
surreal solar
unless you're in the top 100CE, play what you deem "fun"
pliant apex
ty
crude jasper
Hey, got a question! Is it worth to drop ilvl on azerite gear to get better traits for M+? 🙂
surreal solar
good idea to sim it
balmy condor
@serene osprey depends on what you deem as “ptr sims”
serene osprey
just a general idea about azerite / talents / stat prio
probably dd / tb / crit again?
balmy condor
Not necessarily
Ss and exsang is still strong if you’re mythic geared
Otherwise yes
Memory comes back in
Alacrity is the go to
Everything else stays the same
This was a talent sim I did a couple days ago
Take it with some big grains of salt
The ilvl scaling is a little weird
serene osprey
that's actually helpful, my "i don't care it's just pre patch" threshold is about 5% dps anyway
thanks
balmy condor
Np
@graceful vale 
“go read guide lul” doesn’t do it for some people, he said at the start that he didn’t understand the choices, so idk, learning how to go through the choices and think about it is helpful. We all learn differently
@gray pivot what do you mean by a “faint aura”
There’s weakauras here
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
balmy condor
I know for sure that mizeroks group tracks empowered bleeds
I have my own as well if you don’t like any of those
grizzled jay
i have my own custom but it doesn't track empowered bleeds, i guess i just always know when i press vanish lol
but i also long for the day that vanish rupture with NS is back. Subt again is pretty boring
balmy condor
Vanish rupture instead of vanish garrote
same thing to me
Either need a rupture buff or a nightstalker buff to see that happen though considering neither one of them is very good
ionic hemlock
I want them to stop using vanish in a rotation period. Maybe do something EQ style with rogues and let them stay in a stealth longer during combat. its always been super weird to me to use vanish in offensive way, I dunno why. I also think they outta increase back stab damage but and make players actually stay behind npcs to kill em.
grizzled jay
vanish will never not be in rotation cause at the very least we will Vanish Ambush
ionic hemlock
mostly terrible ideas with some merit but then again... SL is on the fast track to be more unfinished than WoD
grizzled jay
WoD was completely finished when it released, they just cut content. Those aren't the same things.
ionic hemlock
yeah, its still kinda bullshit lol
oh it was definitely NOT finished
lol
almost wrote a masters thesis on it
I got R mark down graphs on how much of a shit show wod was
grizzled jay
server instability cause they doubled subs on day one doesn't mean it was unfinished though
grizzled jay
neither of those two things means it was unfinished
ionic hemlock
There a lot of unfinished content, it wasn't that it was cut it just lead no where.
ionic hemlock
But that's neither here nor there
I still think vanish doesn't need to be a huge tool in a rotation, we wouldn't need things like cheat death if that was the case. I what I really want though is two talent pages again. Or maybe just a rebuild of the talent trees and make things more exciting. I liked the vanilla trees to an extent but they would need to expand a lot in that. Downside to me would be the grind.
grizzled jay
@balmy condor I think NS and Subt should just be removed and replaced with more Assassination-oriented talents. It's weird that we share NS and Subt with Sub but Outlaw doesn't.
astral sundial
well the "RP" difference between assassination and subtlety is kinda hard to argue for in the first place. It makes sense an assassin would have some stealth kit. doesn't make much sense for a pirate.
balmy condor
A lot of sins talents just don’t make much sense tbh
strange python
i picked a class that called rogue, stop differ rp in specs
grizzled jay
idk Assassination is the DoT spec, we should just have DoT-oriented talents. I know Subt and NS end up functioning as DoT talents (affecting Garrote and primarily Rupture respectively), but I would prefer more Assassination-oriented talents like how Outlaw row 2 was changed to fit more inline with their fantasy.
royal lantern
@ionic hemlock where do you get the information that SL is unfisnished?
tell me pls
i love how people always say "sl is so unfinished!!!" and have 0 examples
"unfinished" apperantly means"i dont like the covenant system"
loud light
I guess it depends if you think they should make an effort at balance tuning before it goes live
since they've done... none of that for rogues, really
and it's getting a bit late in the game to have multiple iterations and not just go live with your best guess
vast forum
sl is unfinished, but it's playable
it's like when you get a new patch and after like 30% of the download it says "playable" and at 99% it says "optimal"
vast forum
every1 wants to play the optimal version, but shadowlands won't be that AT LEAST until 9.1
grizzled jay
i wonder if a lot of people now-a-days joined in the middle of Legion so BfA is their first real expansion launch. seems the people who are "pre-WoD" are pretty rare
and are thus not accustomed to the fact all WoW expansions are like this
astral sundial
wotlk was my first time playing and I didn't feel like it or cata were like this
royal lantern
what
wotlk launch was so bad
it was ridicolous
the first raidtier was litearlly a 1-1copy of a vanilla raid, and also undertuned as hell
astral sundial
but, what have that got to do with being unfinished
balmy condor
royal lantern
.............allright
not sure if trolling or just doesnt understand the his own shit lmao
what else screams more "unfinished" then "we release the expac with a OLD RAID WE ALLREADY HAD and its also so undertuned, it got cleared on day1 with lvling greens"
astral sundial
I guess I just don't understand? there is a difference between a raid having a lame design and whole system feeling un-thought of
balmy condor
the system is definitely thought of
covenants have a lot of complexity to them
like
they had to design a bunch of soulbinds and 4 abilites for every class
just cause you don't like it
grizzled jay
wrath-cata didn't have any systems. all they had was quests and raids. there was nothing deep about expansions before WoD.
balmy condor
doesn't mean they didn't think about it
they just took it in the direction we weren't hoping for
astral sundial
I agree, I didn't say those were the best things ever or anything
but the guy said people had this feeling only because they didn't play older content
and I am saying, it is actually different
late birch
What seems to be better atm, exsang or alacrity?
late birch
sounds about right
vestal wren
you sure about exsang in prepatch?
balmy condor
ye
sims have it being within a % for geared players
for not stacked players, ye
sucks
vestal wren
idk, i think its just straight out worse
but interested to get convinced otherwise from ptr sims
balmy condor
I'm pretty sure its straight worse as well
I don't think its BiS by any means
but its usable
the problem with ptr sims is that the scaling is wonky I think
neck ilvl is like 260 or something
I'm too lazy to go fix it tbh
but it sort of makes sense, cause with memory and a decent exsang setup from live, haste gems etc
you're seeing 55apm
vestal wren
exsang mainly got popular because of the haste stacking
balmy condor
ye
vestal wren
but corruption is gone and that means you lose a lot of haste
vestal wren
so i don't see it compete with alactriy
would be interessted to see how close it can be
like "within some % " is quite vague, i would not take a 4% loss just to play exsang
balmy condor
yeah hold on
that's using @low girder's character and switching the HoD to NP
I'm not saying "lets all do exsang" by any means
alacrity will be the go-to
but if you got a lot of haste
exsang definitely keeps up
but again, the scaling on the neck specifically is scary to me
either way will probably be fine
main blaze
Oh 6k? Thats pretty competitive with Sub isnt it?
main blaze
I should redownload simcraft
Is the built in APL the up to date one?
or is there an APL floating around for prepatch or SL?
balmy condor
if you want to sim prepatch or beta you need to build it from github
main blaze
Yeah thats fine.
ionic hemlock
@royal lantern Preacher, BellularGaming, Bregvids, & Asmongold (well hes probably trolling I have no idea) all have several youtube vidoes at length discussing the game, and from watching the discussions here. And yes I played vanilla, wotlk and I am well aware each expansion is a total shit show. But the fact they are pushing an expansion and still making huge sweeping changed based on whats being data mined and posted on wowhead. You can look through their archives I haven't seen anything like that before even with WoD.
you only have to look as far as the new venyr rogue ability there are videos already from testing it on beta
vast forum
they just keep doing the same thing: release something unfinished so there is no content drought, then spend months trying to fix it instead of working on new content, causing a content drought which causes them to release the new unfinished stuff even faster
ionic hemlock
Pretty much. Which is why we still don't have a pre-patch nor a date for it.
vast forum
and they also just like adding 20 new systems to new expansions... i'd much prefer an expansion where there are literally only dungeons, raids, pvp vendors and a little bit of side-content, but every class that needs it gets a full proper rework and balancing
then they could add systems on top in .1 patch
vast forum
just imagine shadowlands without covenants (just the leveling part of the story), without conduits and soulbinds, just with legendaries and every spec getting a shadowpriest-level of rework
and then you choose a covenant in 9.1
ionic hemlock
I still think I will enjoy SL more than most expansions. Still got love for the ole TBC expansion. I just hope I can level in vanilla at 50. lol I've only played around on PTR
royal lantern
sorry man, but i cant somone that sees fking BELLULAR as a good sources of information in wow seriously
like
that guy is clickbait as a human beeing
balmy condor
royal lantern
he lives on drama and overblowing trivial stuff,just too generate clicks
balmy condor
ionic hemlock
okay then, well for starters agreed with Whispyr but to finish it up, he's just a source of many I checked out. I never said I took him seriously, that's like taking anything seriously. But streamers actively streaming beta is pretty reasonable source. Second of all you haven't made an argument that's convinced me its 100% polished either. Other then someone who mentioned most expansions are like this is proof enough that it definitely isn't ready. One last point at least during launch of TBC they actually delayed it a year before launching it. You aren't gonna get that now with Activision at the helm and probably Tencent. Which is why despite the zillions of memes out there of Ian, they are still trying to push this expac.
Are ever gonna be able to delete the artifact weapons?
royal lantern
activision was in charge for more years then it was not
final saffron
Seeing how Mike Morhaime expressed himself with his new company pretty much confirms the suspicions about how badly World of Warcraft's development is heading and has been heading for years.
Also Assassination amirite? 
I fixed it @balmy condor
balmy condor
ionic hemlock
Haha
I need to check but did we get gouge back? or just ambush ;p im trying to encourage my gf to play with me so shes been playing alts, also did skinning have any rare recipes? I have old vanilla ZG leatherworking recipes. But I can't remember if I did anything special for skinning, I was thinking of dropping it for maybe engineering or something.
final saffron
we are not getting gouge back, and I'm just waiting for whispyr to direct you to a profession channel with the other question 
ionic hemlock
haha
balmy condor
skinning has some rare recipes
but if you drop, you can re-learn all of your recipes
so you're not losing anything
ionic hemlock
I tried to google it but I can't find em, I have Elemental Leatherworking from back in the day. I was afraid of losing all those epic transmogz
I just wanted to see if I had em or not
balmy condor
I think wowhead has some tracker
but uh, could ask the #transmog nerds
bitch you thought I wouldn't direct you to a channel
get jebaited
ionic hemlock
kappa
final saffron
hahah, woaaah.. relax Whispyw :3
ionic hemlock
They aren't gonna know skinning! So hhaHA
Anyway its not a huge deal. I've never cared much about tradeskills in wow, I took mining / engineering because of chikkenz and the stamina buff from mining before they nerfed that.
balmy condor
the main ones are alchemy for the money/flask duration, engineering for the brez, leatherworking for the gear craft
jewelers are kinda sad this expac cause the jewels drop for free so they cost like 5g
inscription scrolls are good too
realistically just do whatever speaks to you
final saffron
would go back to LW in heartbeat if they added leg enchants again
ionic hemlock
Yeah, leg and shoulder enchants would be kinda nice to have again
strange python
And cloak like agility
I’m liking the enchanter for enchanted leather for our legendarys but I love engineering for the ability to use a engineering ah bot in current expansion without going to ogrimmar
Alchemy is a must imo for the 2 hour duration on flasks
grizzled jay
well, armor kits are back
lean marten
proper sage
ty:)
steep obsidian
toxic timber
halcyon falcon
!guide
prisma monolithBOT
brisk berry
!guide
prisma monolithBOT
verbal mantle
dark crag
Is it only stam? Don't bother with it
fading quiver
Assassination Rogues are looking good in shadowlands? I dont want to reroll the spec
fathom flax
look this will have been asked a million times but is there a post anywhere about prepatch info
ive been away for a while, sorry
more so about which spec is looking good for the 2 weeks before launch
again sorry
!guide
prisma monolithBOT
subtle drift
Time to change my name again
winter gale
To change it into?
winter gale
Wanted to ask the same question tbh
I do want to stay assassination
Venthyr assa rogue is what I wanted since they showed us covenants
subtle drift
Venthyr for me, i like every specc though.
winter gale
Same, I wont mind if sub will be better but most likely Maldraxxus is our covenant. Im comming here every day to ask did something change 😂
1 question per day, haha
crimson palm
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/es1rv9hZe6GcpvjdTzDbtq bomber clf + IS > bote build for any late min maxers 😄
chilly viper
Is marked of the death on the GCD ?
ionic hemlock
I dont' believe so
chilly viper
@crimson palm Your gear is pretty optimized isnt
pure moth
Do you actually run 75 corruption
bold elk
!guide
prisma monolithBOT
paper verge
jesus thats the highest assn sim ive seen i think
vestal wren
its not 5 minutes
plain thistle
I would run that on shad for sure 😂
wet ruin
unless you have a dedicated healer I would say not
wet ruin
lol, good luck
sand otter
So i just got a message from somome saying the venture ability was changed? Im not at my pc can anyone give me the tldr
iron valve
I think Ventrue get domination and fortitude
obtuse anvil
Too bad Malkavian is still gonna wind up bis
spring moth
how is sin rogue looking for Shadowlands?
compared to other classes and compared to other specs of rogue
delicate bone
under the other 2 specs in both ST and AoE
grizzled jay
Rogue is mid-range like normal. Sin and Outlaw are about the same ST, Outlaw will always be better in AoE. But tuning hasn't come yet.
final saffron
I almost feel like just going Venthyr and stacking haste+mastery
spring moth
im trying to figure out if i should use toxic blade or exsanguinate, different guides suggest different options
grizzled jay
You should stack haste/mastery in SL regardless of which Covenant you choose 😄
spring moth
im noob and i want it for pvp mainly 1v1 i guess
spring moth
thanks!
is there any good guide for pvp in 1v1 situations for sin rogue ?
im trying to learn that first
balmy condor
^
grizzled jay
wdym
final saffron
think whispyr linked something that showed all of the secondarys being pretty close but mastery was the worst one
balmy condor
It’s true
I need to recheck with conduits and flag
But flag would just push vers crit higher
final saffron
even a 15% boost to mastery won't cut it ? :I
grizzled jay
it's 10%, but it should eventually be +10% Spec Mastery not +10% Mastery from Gear
final saffron
says 15% here
balmy condor
It would be more shit if it scaled with gear
final saffron
why not both?
balmy condor
You would need 100% mastery for 15% mastery from gear to be equal to just raw 15% mastery
And that’s without DR’s
final saffron
ye true
balmy condor
which would make it nearly impossible to even get there in the first place
Bloodlust is 30% raw haste, not 30% of your stat
If it were, it would be so much weaker
final saffron
but if it scaled with both it could maybe work
but I'll leave the numbers too you as usual o:
final saffron
well if you're saying it will still push other stats further than mastery it doesn't seem good enough
balmy condor
Buffing it would make mastery even worse though
You’re suggesting we nerf the mastery component, which would make mastery as a stat worth more
final saffron
then I'm probably not explaining it well enough, atm it is 15% right? and that means "if" you already got 15% mastery as "base" you will get 30% in the duration of the buff right?
final saffron
and if it also scaled off the gear where you got like 20% mastery as example we would land on 33% instead, how is that making mastery weaker? because of the DR?
balmy condor
If it scaled off gear, and you got 20% from flag, with a base of 15%, you would have 18%
But regardless of that
Stats don’t exist in a vacuum
final saffron
yea but trying to say it should be as you think it's intended + also scaling of the gear
balmy condor
No
It should be intended as 15% flat
Regardless
But let’s do the 33% example right
30% vs 33% mastery
You now have more mastery
Stats don’t exist in a vacuum
When you get more haste, crit becomes better, when you get more mastery, vers becomes more valuable
Etc etc
They play off of each other
final saffron
yea that's where it gets more complicated
balmy condor
You see that in sims right now
People have exped on every piece of gear
But they’re gemming vers and mast and crit
That happens with every stat
So if you add X stat, you’re inherently causing other stats to get stronger
Just by fact that your character is stronger
If you had a permanent lust, haste would be worth less than before
Because now you just have 30% more
Now with all that haste, maybe mastery becomes better, or crit
The same concept applies here
You’re giving yourself mastery, and because of that, you’re making vers and crit and haste stronger
And mastery weaker
We can pull it to the extreme as well
grizzled jay
it's 10% mastery.
final saffron
thanks for the lecture Whispyr haha, just tried to think of a way to make mastery more worthwhile of a stat and if you could tweak the ability to make that happen
grizzled jay
Mastery is fine as a stat
balmy condor
Mastery might still be worth
final saffron
I understand that other stats get more value as you get more
balmy condor
But it’s worth less than it was before
grizzled jay
It isn't like Haste-on-Outlaw levels of bad
balmy condor
No one said it was
final saffron
people for example doesn't wanna got over 34% crit atm right?
balmy condor
Oh god
grizzled jay
oh god here we go agin
balmy condor
Please don’t start with that
final saffron
ohh, I'm hitting diamonds here
final saffron
tell me the juicy drama about going over 34%
final saffron
you know I haven't played for a while, just asking about things I heard
balmy condor
By a youtube clown named infexious
With no data
And no proof
And idiots went with it
And now it haunts this channel like the ghost of a dead child
final saffron
haha okay, I wanna say I that I remember even seeing you type about it 
final saffron
that's why we need sims!
balmy condor
Sims disproved 34% crit before it was even said
crimson palm
34% is real
balmy condor
Didn’t help
final saffron
grabs popcorn
balmy condor
Hemo’s just trolling cause he’s bored
fleet whale
well to be fair... most assassination rogues in basically bis gear end up with around like 32-35% crit anyway
final saffron
is there any good sims of Flag yet that I missed btw?
fleet whale
just infexious made it seem like some break point for some reason lol
last i heard flag is the second best ST covenant
grizzled jay
Flag for me right now does about 7-10% of my overall damage on ST. Pretty strong considering it doesn't have a Conduit and the Mastery isn't working correctly.
final saffron
soo.. you think it will be better when they fix those things?
grizzled jay
Well obviously. It's already only about 7-10% behind SBS right now, and that can be made up by those two things imo
crimson palm
🔮
final saffron
well then it also seems like a decent covenant now, yay
grizzled jay
Don't think you can correctly sim the Mastery, so it will be a hard ability to Sim overall
final saffron
I'm just happy that it seems promising since I wanted Venthyr for the aesthetics
and will probably be decent for PvP aswell
radiant sorrel
is it better to reapply rupture when it has 5-6 seconds left? or wait till the very last second
balmy condor
makes no difference outside of exsang
outer condor
i guess it makes sense to wait until the last second if you're pooling energy
if ur gonna cap however just reapply it then
balmy condor
doesn't make a difference even then
outer condor
i mean, sure rupture itself won't deal more or less damage
but wasted energy is wasted dps
balmy condor
well the argument for pooling is that you would be using the energy when it gives you more damage
eg pooling for tb windows so you can get the most energy into those envenom/mutilates
pooling for rupture does nothing
royal lantern
^
royal lantern
and assassination cant really pool that much in SL anymore tbh
atleast from my own expirience
outer condor
why is that
royal lantern
you spend more energy keeping stuff up with the addition of s&d
+less stats etc.....
royal lantern
sadly all specs get it
balmy condor
yeah everyone gets it
royal lantern
shit&ability 🙂
outer condor
why is that bad
royal lantern
worst ability in the entire game togheter with hunters mark
cus it does nothing gameplay wise
except you melee hit faster
so you spend less time actually doing dmg with skills, and more time keeping passive dmg up
it has no impact on your entire gameplay except " you are now balanced around that attackspeed buff, keep it up"
great desing 🙂
outer condor
i mean, isn't haste the main stat for sin rogues?
i know that haste doesn't only affect attack speed
but still
royal lantern
haste has impact on way more
higher dot tick rate->more energy reg from more bleed ticks,and more energy reg from haste
shit&ability is only attackspeed
like
it does nothing except you hit faster
outer condor
you also proc poisons more ig
royal lantern
and people love too forget that you dont gain something with shit&ability, you are now SUPPOSED too hold it up with near 100%uptime
you are balanced around it
its not a talent, its baseline, you need too use it
grizzled jay
you mean Execute
outer condor
i see
royal lantern
you 100%need too keep it up cus you are balanced around it
but its so fking boring cus it does nothing
grizzled jay
all Ferals love Savage Roar 
royal lantern
its not a gain, its something you need too do
people that play feral are braindamaged tbh
more then people that play rogue lmao
outer condor
yeah i get it, it's a pretty lich king era skill
grizzled jay
idk man maintenance buffs are just a way to separate skill levels. how many times do we see someone come in here saying 'i don't get it i do my rotation perfect and i do crap dps, help??' and they have a 50% uptime on Rupture
royal lantern
lichking era would be slice&dice reset on envenom
balmy condor
sin has always been a boring maintenance spec
royal lantern
its litearlly a vanilla skill lmao
royal lantern
it only came back cus of classic
balmy condor
but that's what it be
grizzled jay
it was a burst pvp spec in tbc-wrath at least kekw
royal lantern
@balmy condor ye,sure,but there is a difference bettwen"maintance focused" and "all you do is refresh stuff now"
wich is what i dont like
outer condor
suggest a topic
grizzled jay
this dik gottem
royal lantern
i got one
WICH COVENANT IS THE BEST?????
SHOULD I ROLL TROLL FOR HASTE RACIAL????
did i forgot something?
tulip star
why did dad never return with the milk?
royal lantern
guys, im parsing green on the first 3 bosses on hc,so i have a important question too improve my performance
undone pasture
u probably just dont have 34% crit
royal lantern
reroll dwarf for more crit dmg, or go gnome for more energy, or just reroll horde for troll and belf?
plz help me
or im gonna ping a mod
outer condor
go night elf for stealth speed!!!!!
verbal vessel
clearly always belf for free gold from thirsty orcs
royal lantern
@balmy condor plz help
balmy condor
fine
go complain about your snd
I get it
I'll start us off
me no like snd cause its not interesting to push button
big damage but no fun make me angry
blizz bad
why no rogue devs
limber lion
Ah fuck 2.3k off of rank 1 on Ra-Den
Literally no procs at all on the opener, I'm so sad
One vita proc and I'd be rank 1. WidePeepoSad
strange python
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
outer condor
exsanguinate making targets bleed "100% faster", does that only increase the tick rate or does it half the duration as well?
balmy condor
both
it also technically removes your bleeds and reapplies them with the new duration and tick rate
btw
not too important, but an interesting fact
outer condor
but it doesn't renew them right
balmy condor
what do you mean
outer condor
well, removing and reapplying is almost synonym to "renewing" the debuff
so if your rupture was at 6 seconds left
would it be at three, or the full duration halved?
outer condor
okay
balmy condor
it doesn't magically cast new bleeds
it takes the existing ones, increases the tick rate, reduces the duration, and reapplies at those values
outer condor
also rotation guides saying "cast vanish on cooldown to refresh stealth talents"
is that actually a thing?
sounds like a waste of an utility cooldown
balmy condor
its not a utility cooldown sadly
its arguably the strongest dps cooldown we have right now
outer condor
that's funny
warm star
Even more with the new legs in shadowlands
balmy condor
definitely less with the new legendaries
manic cairn
!guide
prisma monolithBOT
outer condor
i'm pretty out of touch with sl
but i hope vanish as a dps cooldown doesn't stay a thing for much longer
outer condor
sounds more like a sub thing
scenic fox
Would be nice if we got something like dks inexorable assault just for stealth
So after x ammount of time not hitting stuff we can just stealth
chilly viper
noob question
can you macro step with kidney shot?
#showtooltip shadowstep
/cast Shadowstep
/cast Kidney Shot
Like am i dumb or
lol
nvm
balmy condor
/castsequence shadowstep, kidney shot
chilly viper
What does castsequence does
balmy condor
cast in the order listed
dire spoke
That will make you use the button twice, No?
balmy condor
glad to hear it
dire spoke
What language is your game
chilly viper
English
balmy condor
indeed they are
chilly viper
#showtooltip shadowstep
/cast Shadowstep
/cast Kidney shot
this is need to click twice
same for the one w/ castsequence
But you should be able to shadowstep and kidneyshot in one macro right
chilly viper
Nothing happens :p
chilly viper
ahaha indeed
dire spoke
Maybe it doesnt work because at the time you click youre not teleported yet
Try replacing Shadowstep with Vendetta
and use that
dire spoke
I'm using Galecallers with Vendetta in one click
chilly viper
doesnt work since you're not in range for kidney, make sense
chilly viper
the yung prodigee
chilly viper
#showtooltip shadowstep
/cast Shadowstep
/cast Marked for Death
/cast Kidney Shot
thats useful tho
you click twice for the insta kidney shot
dire spoke
Sure
balmy condor
might still have the problem tbh
meager arch
does anyone know if mastery increases sepsis damage?
grizzled jay
it increases SBS but not Sepsis. Shiv does increase Sepsis damage though.
balmy condor
correct
grizzled jay
Which makes zero sense
meager arch
thats lame
grizzled jay
How it is considered a Poison for Shiv but not Mastery.
balmy condor
cause the mastery is linked to class abilities
and shiv is just all nature damage
I think that's the difference
grizzled jay
Shiv/TB tooltip does state 'the Rogue's poisons'
Even though it functionally isn't
But Blizzard tooltips 
balmy condor
yup
iron valve
shiv says nature damage, no?
dire spoke
mybad
grizzled jay
i meant the buff tooltip