assassination

[drifting cloud]

when you could just have a lock/mage/boomie/hunter/dh

prolly forgot a few even

[bleak spoke]

Now if our vendetta blade flurried then it’d be combust and then it’d actually be good

I keep trying to play my mage for fun in raid and we keep having some scuffed leather stacks

These few weeks

[drifting cloud]

atleast you got buyers end of the day 😛

[bleak spoke]

Yeh I guess

[drifting cloud]

weve sold maybe like 3nzoth mounts in last 2months

[bleak spoke]

Ouch

Just no advertising or

[drifting cloud]

uhm dunno actually

I assume its prolly harder to find buyers on eu

[bleak spoke]

Maybe yeah

We seem to have nzoth buyers every week

Ugh bedtime I have to be up for ksm practice tomorrow

[drifting cloud]

is it your time to be the guy who shows up late?

[wary ice]

thanks for the tips!

[strange python]

Do we know whats happening to HoD traits on gear?

Are they just going to become like greyed out

[steel ridge]

We do not for certain

Most likely it just becomes not usable

[drifting cloud]

just check ptr, but if I had to guess it just works without the corr req

not usable sounds dumb, bricking like a 1/4 of the traits on all azerite

but yeah its blizz after all

[balmy condor]

Correct

It just doesn’t work because you don’t have 25 corruption

[vital haven]

got a 96 on my last nzoth kill

dream is dead

[balmy condor]

Finally orange

you did it

[vital haven]

ty whispyr

[grizzled jay]

2 days to get CE

monka

[vital haven]

2 days?

you got like 2 weeks at least

[drifting cloud]

he prolly meant weeks 😛

unless their last raid until sl is in 2days

[vital haven]

ye i figured while i was typing lol

[grizzled jay]

you don't think next tuesday is pre-patch?

[drifting cloud]

70% 29th, 30% 6th

[coarse tusk]

they usually give a 2 weeks notice before prepatch

[balmy condor]

Ye I would agree

The background download also just went up

That’s a pretty good sign

[vital haven]

they give 2 weeks notice for pvp

and also they havent said anything today

they can still announce tomorrow

for eu reset

but if they dont

then maybe 6th of oct

[drifting cloud]

it doesnt have to be exactly 14 days

iirc for bfa it was announced on a Thursday

so yeah if its not here by Friday Id say 6th then

[balmy condor]

Ryler why ur brain so giga

[drifting cloud]

you can just read wowhead comments if you want the real scoops

"By the state of PTR and the Beta i doubt it will be on 29th. 6th or 13th sound much more plausible. Expansion delay too."

stuff like this

[steep obsidian]

whats wrong with the ptr right now?

i know the beta is a shitshow but the ptr is a diff build they can fix seperately

[drifting cloud]

well outside of SL specific systems theyre the same thing

[steep obsidian]

yes

but they are different bulids right now

beta build can be a shit show

and they can fix ptr to make it functional

[drifting cloud]

at this point I dont even want to guess

just give me mount achievs in prepatch ty

but like whatever would get patched on beta after prepatch that isnt a SL specific system should technically just be patched into live same time

the shitshow that is all monk specs

[steep obsidian]

ptr build actually seems ahead of beta build right now 35897 over 35854 🤔

id expect them to push through a build marked release soonish

[grizzled jay]

well ptr was just updated today whereas beta will get an update tomorrow

[marble tartan]

Dude it was never 14 days in the last 2 addons

Always 12 days or below

Best bet is still after the venthyr trailer

[balmy condor]

so you're holding out for 22nd?

[marble tartan]

29th

[balmy condor]

so then you're agreeing with us

[marble tartan]

Was talking to the other guy who hinted at the 2 weeks

[balmy condor]

he's not entirely wrong

they have to announce pvp end

[marble tartan]

#off-topic I guess

[balmy condor]

and that's usually longer than a week out

well, if anything #wow-general

[marble tartan]

Well same stuff icksde

[steel ridge]

they have to announce pvp end
@balmy condor what makes everyone so certain that „they have to“. Its not like its big news that 8.3 is ending soonish

[steep obsidian]

yeah i agree with ice i dont think its been exactly 2 weeks every time

but they definitley do announce it

[balmy condor]

they always announce pvp ends

[steep obsidian]

and push a build marked release to ptr

[balmy condor]

yep

[grizzled jay]

we'll probably get news tomorrow same time as beta build

[steep obsidian]

the first build isn't always the one that ends up going live though sometimes it akes a few

[strange python]

With the exsang/deeper strat, do you only envenom 5+ cp?

[balmy condor]

Yes

Finish at 5

Thats for normie ruptures and CT’s as well

Force 6cp ruptures before every exsang tho

[strange python]

before exsang, do you want to 6cp rupture -> garrote -> exsang right?

like after opener

[balmy condor]

Yeah a max pandemic garrote and a max pandemic rupture

Doesn’t really matter the order

Just as long as you’re getting a full duration on both right before exsang

[winter moss]

your fav necro soulbind sofar?

[balmy condor]

my fav is venthyr personally

but uhhhh

venthyr sucky

[winter moss]

personally i agree, numberwise ye. necro it is. but with all this soulbind crap

i must confess i lost sight on this matter

[balmy condor]

rank 15 conduits on that sim

it looks okay

especially if necro gets nerfed

[verbal mantle]

venthyr is also my personal favorite rn

but it's not that far behind

[winter moss]

it doesnt look bad and balancing isnt finished

[verbal mantle]

ye

[winter moss]

but how much do the soulbinds off-conduits abilites affect that

afaik those are only qol rihgt

[balmy condor]

no conduits

also no soulbinds

[verbal mantle]

[winter moss]

so it doesnt really matter which soulbind i take

whatever person isnt the most annoying one

welp im gonna miss draven

[balmy condor]

soulbinds are a lot of QoL

you're gonna take potency conduits obviously right

[winter moss]

ye

but

sounds so good

[balmy condor]

ye

[winter moss]

think is giga jebait

[balmy condor]

the ones on the bottom

are super good

[winter moss]

ye but how often do you plan on dying

tbf

and as rogue you will be probably one of the last ones to die

[balmy condor]

I've never died in my life

[verbal mantle]

you just dont die

as a rogue

otherwise you're standing in shit for 8 years

[balmy condor]

theotar seems kinda nutty for sin tbh

idk what the igcd is on it

but with blindside, that seems like fairly high uptime

[crimson palm]

its 60s

[winter moss]

[balmy condor]

oh

[crimson palm]

else sub would've had it permanently

[balmy condor]

well then fuck that

[crimson palm]

kekw

[balmy condor]

true true

its 2:30am

[winter moss]

i mean this is necro but puts you away from one potency conduit

[crimson palm]

wdym

[balmy condor]

my brain very small

[crimson palm]

its 11:30 am

[shrewd night]

yeah hemo, whispyr dummy

[crimson palm]

fkin KKona

[balmy condor]

sorry I live in a bad timezone

I already have to add 3 hours to all of our guild events

fkin east coast acting like they own NA

[verbal mantle]

[winter moss]

move to france

[shrewd night]

[balmy condor]

@verbal mantle have an extra couch?

[winter moss]

tbf this is bis

[verbal mantle]

ye! in my living room

[balmy condor]

hmmmmm

[verbal mantle]

come dude, and I cook very well
300 Mbps fiber

ez

[balmy condor]

tsk

I'm on 600mbps here

no can do

[verbal mantle]

sorry you have a bigger donger

[balmy condor]

my imaginary internet number is bigger than your imaginary internet number, therefore I'm better than you

[winter moss]

does slaughter work with the nrg regen nowadays

[balmy condor]

wdym with the energy regen

[verbal mantle]

cant deny that bro

im done

washed up

i think he means if it's working like rupture or smthg ?

idk

assumptions

[balmy condor]

yeah idk man jajajaja germans am I right

[verbal mantle]

[winter moss]

jajajaja is spanish

[balmy condor]

hush I don't speak wienerschnitzel

I mean I do

but for the sake of the joke I don't

[shrewd night]

Mac is trying his best to keep a lovely covenant discussion, and yall ruining it with ot dummy things.

[verbal mantle]

i think he means if it's working like rupture or smthg ?
Wrong

[balmy condor]

[verbal mantle]

Koffing i ASKED

[balmy condor]

very sorry gomenasai

[verbal mantle]

im not

but we still need to answner Maccie tho

[winter moss]

well @shrewd night after the beating you gave me i have to get informed for a solid opinion

[verbal mantle]

and idk the answer

[balmy condor]

idk either

[verbal mantle]

welp haha

[shrewd night]

Beating. I consider it a friendly noogie. Big for the maccie.

[verbal mantle]

does fuu know ?

pls someone enlight us

[balmy condor]

wow, daddy koffing never loves me like that

oh wait

@winter moss you mean the poison working with energy regen?

cause yes, they fixed the poison

[winter moss]

oh i forgot ye

meant slaughter poison with venomous wounds

[balmy condor]

yeah that works

[winter moss]

have to tread carefully or koffing might beat my ass again

[marble tartan]

Hans where is the Flammenwerfer

But shiv Deals way less damage than the old tb right?

[balmy condor]

yes

the tb effect is also weaker on shiv

[winter moss]

budget tb

[marble tartan]

Did sins get anything back damage-wise?

Like from other abilities

[balmy condor]

uh

[winter moss]

[balmy condor]

poison and melee damage from slice and dice

[winter moss]

we got more buffs to maintain

and well yeah snd increases atksp and therefore poison proccs

[vestal dune]

isn't shiv + alacrity > toxic blade dmg wise?

[balmy condor]

probably

[marble tartan]

Yeah that’s it right?

[balmy condor]

yep

blindside is good

so that's something

[winter moss]

finally

[balmy condor]

but really its the same as bfa but just worse

shiv is just tb, but worse

alacrity is mega passive and taken everywhere

blindside is a win,but not really by much, especially once EP uptime gets better

[winter moss]

well got stat squished twice in a row, tweaking and tuning will do magic tricks

[balmy condor]

yeah I'm praying for tuning pass as well

[winter moss]

and in advance stat gain

[balmy condor]

but I'm not holding my breath

I'm mostly really scared about m+

[winter moss]

well if it doesnt work out as sin

there is still sub and otl

[wet ruin]

are there sims with the slaughter giving energy

[balmy condor]

#assassination message

Farther up in here

Which I stole from #tc-research

[wet ruin]

those are updated with the extra energy regen?

[balmy condor]

What “extra” regen

The regen was bugged for a while, and that got fixed recently

If you’re referring to the convo from earlier

[wet ruin]

I thought it was something new

[balmy condor]

But it doesn’t inherently give more energy than deadly

[wet ruin]

so it was always intended to work as a regen then

[balmy condor]

It’s identical to deadly, yes

[wet ruin]

or by work with it you mean that it works in the way 'its a poisoned target'

[balmy condor]

Correct

[wet ruin]

right, I thought it was counted as an extra bleed, didn't even check if it was a bleed even

[balmy condor]

Yeah it’s not a bleed

It’s just a poison

Deadly but red

[wet ruin]

right

I was wondering why it wasn't much of an imporovement

[balmy condor]

XD ye idk what blizz is thinking tbh

Having it be entirely tied to conduit rank is so confusing

[normal olive]

They want you to go Night Fae

the better covenant

[bright lintel]

does sepsis even trigger poison bomb on the beta or is it still just envenom and rupture?

[balmy condor]

Enven and rupture

[bright lintel]

cheers

do you think it's an oversight or intended @balmy condor

[balmy condor]

Intended

[normal olive]

Henlo Weebspyr wat convenante is goodest in SL?

[balmy condor]

Let me sleep fuck

[normal olive]

[minor thicket]

When will we see a rough rotation for the different builds for SL

I assume not until game comes out?

[balmy condor]

Maintain everything

[minor thicket]

Lol

[balmy condor]

Use ambush in place of mut when possible

[minor thicket]

Gotcha

So when 9.0 drops the exsan build will essentially be dead right?

Since our haste will go back to being low

Since the corruption all end

[balmy condor]

If you want hidden tech, garrote snd ambush mut rupture opener

Depends on your gear level

[normal olive]

In Prepatch i can give you a better rundown on good openers

[balmy condor]

Shut up navi

With full socketed mythic gear, exsang is actually still usable tbh

Essences and SS still exist

I’m kidding btw navi is a boo

[normal olive]

Novi will remember this

[balmy condor]

I was looking at it earlier, even with the squish, fully optimized haste sets are like ~42% haste

which is more than enough for exsang

[minor thicket]

Good to know

[normal olive]

well that's with lvl 50

[balmy condor]

Yeah

[normal olive]

what will it look like at lvl 51

[minor thicket]

Right now I’m roughly 72% haste

[balmy condor]

We’re talking prepatch

[minor thicket]

But I can socket a few more things to help

[normal olive]

I think i was at like 45% haste on ptr

[balmy condor]

At level 51 it’ll look like sub

Because why the fuck would you level as sin

[normal olive]

i want to play assa

[minor thicket]

Are you joking ?

[normal olive]

but meming in sub is fun

[minor thicket]

I’ve never played sub

Only outlaw and sin

[balmy condor]

Sin leveling is actually painful

[normal olive]

I liked it in bfa

[minor thicket]

Do you prefer levelling as outlaw?or sub

[balmy condor]

I prefer sub

Because I can’t stand outlaw

[minor thicket]

Ah

[balmy condor]

They each do fine

[minor thicket]

How hard is sub to learn?

I figure I’ll have to learn it since it looks OP

[balmy condor]

[normal olive]

i'm at 40% haste on ptr

[balmy condor]

How hard is it to learn german

[minor thicket]

Super hard

[normal olive]

Easy

[minor thicket]

Lmao

[balmy condor]

I disagree

Because I grew up with it

[urban walrus]

GUTEN TAG

[balmy condor]

“How hard is X” is kinda troll

Cause idk if you’re 10 iq or 500

[minor thicket]

I would say I’m between 10 and 500

😉

[balmy condor]

What’s difficult to you might be easy to me

[normal olive]

How high is my iq Whispyr

[minor thicket]

True

[balmy condor]

Room temperature

But it’s measured in Fahrenheit

[normal olive]

305?

[balmy condor]

And also it’s a room in the middle of the fires

[normal olive]

in kelvin you mean

[balmy condor]

Sure

Aight can I go sleep now or is someone else gonna hop out of the woodwork

If you lurking with a question speak now or forever lurk

[late birch]

On an opener for logs do you guys rate when its two targets like vex or hivemind on opener is it best to apply 3 garrotes between the two targets then use crit prepot or tunnel vision on target with prepot or fight both with unbridled fury?

[balmy condor]

The moment there’s 2+ targets you take unbridled

Unbridled might actually be BiS single target for you as well

And on vex and hive you would indeed 3 garrotes

[late birch]

with bleed build?

[balmy condor]

Ideally gar 1 on boss, gar 2 on add gar 3 on boss

And then CDs on boss

Yeah even with bleed build

[late birch]

yep that makes snse

been doing that

ahyt ty

[balmy condor]

Take a simc

Put it in advanced sim

https://pastebin.com/NPK6vt99

Paste that underneath

It’ll sim food/potion combinations

I’ve seen basically every combination under the sun pop out for people

Vers/unbridled single target

Crit and mastery foods are super common

Unbridled is pretty common

[slim estuary]

So we play poison or sub in prepatch?

[balmy condor]

Depending on the final tuning

Probably bleed build or sub

At least for the poggers geared people

[slim estuary]

really? will exsang still be bis without the corruption?

[balmy condor]

Yeah, full haste gems on mythic gear still sitting at around 42%

With SS and essences still existing, memory puts you at ~55apm

[normal olive]

hc geared i'm stitting at 40%

[slim estuary]

exsang without CT though? iirc CT breakpoint was 60% haste

[balmy condor]

Yeah exsang and poison bomb

Just like earlier in this patch

40% out of combat navi?

I’m going off of simulation numbers

[normal olive]

yes 40% out of combat

[balmy condor]

Hm

I’ll have to recheck the numbers tomorrow then

[slim estuary]

You're actually fucking godly @balmy condor , I tried asking some questions in sub channel for shadowlands and I just got screeching

[balmy condor]

Peace love and positivity my dude

[verbal mantle]

[balmy condor]

Aighty last calls it’s almost 7am here me need sleepies

[late birch]

wish i knew about this disc earlier expansion to ask stuff D:

[slim estuary]

What azerite does sub use (or will use in prepatch) if you know? Wanna be prepared if that's the case

[normal olive]

Weebster why sin bad why sub gud

[balmy condor]

1 fd, 1 inev and the rest is pretty ???? Tbh

Nv doesn’t work with rupture afaik

So it’s probably gonna be like clock and swirling and bbi and maybe that SS trait whatever the fuck it’s called

Prepatch sub is gonna be either super jank

Or super poppin

Atm seems super jank

[slim estuary]

Well afaik sub on beta only winning cause akaari leggo is overtuned

[normal olive]

Why does Sub feel better then sin on ptr

[balmy condor]

Nah sub baseline is good as well

Akaari’s is busted op, true

But the skeleton is there

And it’s already functional and usable

[normal olive]

lvl 50 without corruptions i mean

[balmy condor]

Sub feels better cause it flows nice

[slim estuary]

I've heard that if akaari is nerfed then sin wins, if akaari goes live anywhere near where it is then sub wins.

[normal olive]

Yeah and you don't have to wait 2 minutes to press the next button

[slim estuary]

won't that mean prepatch sub is gonna be trash?

[balmy condor]

Not necessarily

I also can’t verify the whole akaari’s makes sub viable thing

I haven’t simmed them myself or seen sub vs sin sims to prove or disprove that

[slim estuary]

maybe ill dip back in the sub channel and see if they've stopped screeching 😂

[balmy condor]

God speed :)

[slim estuary]

afaik the breakpoint for what spec we play in raid is gonna be based on heroic week tuning

[balmy condor]

Yeah usually how that works

That week of tuning tips the scales pretty often

[slim estuary]

Everyone been hyping sub hard though

[balmy condor]

I think the sub hype is valid

But it’s been getting a little much

[slim estuary]

They have so many buttons now 😂

I last played sub in ToS

[balmy condor]

And a lot of it is just the community seeing akaari’s and nothing else tbh

Since no one runs basically anything else or if they do, it’s not flashy

[peak smelt]

Sub is still much higher sim than sin even without akaari, foo has sims if you search

[balmy condor]

Yeah

That’s where the tuning stuff comes back into play

Cause yes right now according to sims, sub is ~25% ahead of sin and outlaw without anything

If it survives that all the way until live, or even mythic week

Remains to be seen

[slim estuary]

I'll be @ - ing you when that comes up 🙂

[balmy condor]

:P I’ll probably be here crying about sin in m+

[high berry]

-25% ahead?

[slim estuary]

Sub will be the play for m+ but I've never taken m+ seriously

[balmy condor]

Or there’s gonna be a huge surge of new rogues and I’ll be drowning

Yeah ~25%

[slim estuary]

-25% ahead?
@high berry That'd be a tilde ~

[normal olive]

Don't worry Weebster i'll help with questions

[balmy condor]

Tilde meaning approximately

[normal olive]

like opener stuff is my jam

[high berry]

What does that mean exactly? It’s 25% behind ?

[normal olive]

25% ahead

[balmy condor]

Approximately 25% ahead

~ = approximately

It’s a ~ not a -

[high berry]

Looks like a - on my mobile device. Thanks for clarifying

[normal olive]

Sorry i don't speak ~ what do you mean?

[balmy condor]

~||<_>*#}{

Secret opener to 900k dps

[normal olive]

No they can't handle it

[balmy condor]

It’s like cheat codes

This time for realsies

[normal olive]

cya in 30 minutes

i'll ping you

[verbal mantle]

sleep

[normal olive]

[balmy condor]

30? Bruh I’m going to sleep not hibernating

Wtf

[slim estuary]

cya, till next time I need a civil and educated chat. But until then... i delve into the dark depths of the sub channel

[balmy condor]

It’s like my gf always says “30 minutes is a long time for you, usually it’s more like 5”

[normal olive]

5 seconds?

[balmy condor]

[normal olive]

poor gf

[balmy condor]

@normal olive aight boy it’s been an hour sorry bout that what I miss

[normal olive]

u wot

go to bed

[balmy condor]

But I just got up

[normal olive]

bruh

[crimson palm]

@balmy condor best covenant

[balmy condor]

Dwarf

[crimson palm]

no

[balmy condor]

:(

[normal olive]

wat

[late birch]

Anyone know why when I upload logs it shows my dps on cara shows like 68k on website but on details it shows overall 92k

[normal olive]

because you are padding

The dmg you do to the bloby thingys and shit that have a shield get's removed or something

[balmy condor]

Cara especially removes damage from stuff

[late birch]

ah, didnt know that was a thing

dafuq

[balmy condor]

You need to click on unweighted damage

The weighted damage is the one that shows in parses as well

It’s some shit the community voted on cause apparently the validity of logs or some garbage

[normal olive]

me want pad

[late birch]

lol ahyt ty

ye man

[normal olive]

me hit shit that does not care

[balmy condor]

Wcl Admin was basically like “hey these logs fucked cause people padding what do we do”

[late birch]

just wanna dot all blobs man D:

[balmy condor]

And put up a series of polls

And then they just took the majority vote on every poll and implemented

And now logs are real janky

[normal olive]

no u are janky

[balmy condor]

Gomenasai

[normal olive]

No

[late birch]

DUDE

riofl

[balmy condor]

:(

[crimson topaz]

Hello, quick question, is Serrated Bone Spike affected by Exsanguinate, and does it proc Venomous Wounds?

[balmy condor]

No because that would be insane, and I don’t think so

Double the tick rate of an infinite dot every 45 seconds

[verbal mantle]

busted

[crimson topaz]

Does it have synergy with anything?

[balmy condor]

Uhhhh..... not that I know of

Yeah can’t think of anything

[crimson topaz]

Alright thanks. Another question then, now that we are losing Shrouded Suffocation, do we already have a clear idea of what the opener is going to look like for Sin?

[balmy condor]

For what, m+ or raid

[crimson topaz]

M+ and PvP.

[balmy condor]

M+ is still 3 garrotes subterfuge

Similar concept as live

Pvp hasn’t been theorycrafted yet because balance changes every week

[crimson topaz]

Though our opener won't be as strong anymore will it? With Garrote going back to 1 combo point that is.

[balmy condor]

And I don’t even know if pvp testing is a thing

[crimson topaz]

It's going take more globals to get Rupture on the targets as well now.

[balmy condor]

Well with bone spike you’re not too worried about that

[crimson topaz]

Why is that? I mean it only generates 1 combo point.

[balmy condor]

Bone spike is 1 cp + x cp where X is the number of bone spikes out

[crimson topaz]

Ah right forgot about that part.

Have they nerfed the fracture part already?

[balmy condor]

But also the damage makeup for sin is heavily poison based

So the ruptures and stuff, while still obviously good

Aren’t going to be the main damage

We actually still don’t know about the fracture

It still exists at 200%

But the tool tips don’t reflect it anymore

[crimson topaz]

The damage is insane.

[balmy condor]

So either the tooltip is wrong and doesn’t include the fracture, or the mechanic as a whole isn’t supposed to exist

Or they’re wanting to change it

Or tune it

Your guess is as good as anyone else’s

[crimson topaz]

Right. I see.

I mainly plan on PvPing and while Slaughter was suggested to me for that content, I still feel like it's a bit underwhelming on paper compared to SBS.

[balmy condor]

definitely not in pvp

the leech from slaughter is ridiculous

[crimson topaz]

15% healing is not much, especially not against targets that don't naturally heal a lot.

I should add I will mainly/only be 2v2ing.

[balmy condor]

yeah I mean this is the pve andy channel

so I do admit I'm pretty unfamiliar with the giga brain pvp mechanics

but 15% heal steal is pretty significant in those kinds of settings

if you're mongo double dps, probably less so

but even the instant damage from slaughter itself with a couple ranks of the conduit is pretty significant instant damage

bone spike has to tick and can be dispelled, so you'd have to reapply it

the nerds in #pvp probably can give a better answer than me

but to my peanut brain, slaughter seems pretty no-brainer

[crimson topaz]

Alright well ty for your time. I'll hop into the pvp channel.

[balmy condor]

anytime, hope you find the answers you seek

[crimson topaz]

Thanks!

[normal olive]

Whepstir is kyrian realy that bad?

[balmy condor]

[normal olive]

[fleet whale]

Kyrian becomes good when you get 34% crit

[normal olive]

It becomes good as soon as you know how to optimise my openers

[fleet whale]

does your opener involve distract, pick pocket, and detection?

[normal olive]

no but mfd -> kidney -> kyrian -> throwing knife

bosses will fear us

[fleet whale]

seems good for bastion leveling

[strange python]

is sin looking good insofar as raiding rn

[balmy condor]

yeah seems fine

[strange python]

sub > sin >? outlaw ya?

[balmy condor]

probably

[strange python]

have they fixed the sub leggo bugs

so we know where they actually stand

[balmy condor]

bugs yes

[strange python]

haven't got beta access sadly

[balmy condor]

but its still overpowered af

[strange python]

ah still untuned I got u

f

well here's hoping sin/sub are still elite when it drops

[balmy condor]

they're melee

[fleet whale]

sub hits hard

[balmy condor]

and cloak is worthless tbh

so

good luck

[normal olive]

the only thing that hits hard are Whopsters tracks catJAM

[fleet whale]

people will still overhype rogue utility for nathria i bet

[strange python]

yeah split cleave on last boss is kekw

and no idea what's in the mirror

[fleet whale]

https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/2569691-Is-this-sub-thing-4-real

people still falling for the bait lol

[normal olive]

Since wow meta says sub is bis should i delete all my sin gear and reroll sub?

[plain thistle]

yes

thats a smart decision for sure

[normal olive]

okay boss

[vague rock]

really dude? listening to wowmeta?

[normal olive]

[verbal mantle]

you dont know Navi yet

[normal olive]

wot

[verbal mantle]

fixed.

[normal olive]

makes more sense now xD

[verbal mantle]

ofc rofl

typing while eating is bad

[balmy condor]

you must be new here

[vague rock]

[balmy condor]

[verbal mantle]

[plain thistle]

[frigid kestrel]

So Necro is BIS early on and Venthyr is BIS when the tree is filled out? I’m trying to wrap my head around this ish.

[balmy condor]

right now, necro is BiS throughout

venthyr has the strongest conduit

so as you get more conduit levels, venthyr starts to catch up

[fringe mist]

sorry if dumb question so the conduit isnt tied to the covenant? or

[frigid kestrel]

Ahhh gotcha, do the conduits levels make Venthyr better overall vs Necro?

[normal olive]

no

[frigid kestrel]

@fringe mist Na

[fringe mist]

ohhh ty ty

[balmy condor]

so there's 3 things @fringe mist

there's soulbinds, conduits, and the covenant

the ability, or the covenant, in this case slaughter, aka the venthyr ability

there's the soulbind, which is the tree you pick points in

and conduits are the things you slot into that tree

[fringe mist]

ahhhh i get it ty so much that clears it up a lot

[balmy condor]

there are conduits for each spec

but there's also 1 conduit which affects the covenant ability

so in this case, the venthyr ability without any added effects

[fringe mist]

so basically rock necrolord for bone spike until the proper levels

[balmy condor]

is literally just ambush but red

and deadly poison, but red

they don't do any extra damage

[fringe mist]

class fantasy

[balmy condor]

but when you level the conduit up, they gain a bunch of damage

"they" actually being "it" and "it" being the ambush part

the poison part doesn't change

anyway

that conduit basically buffs it by some ridiculous % like 40% on the tooltip but the effects are doubled with the poison active

number doesn't really matter

point is that its insane

and the necro conduit is 10% chance to deal double damage

which is in fact the same thing as 10% more damage

so the necro conduit, not great, but the ability itself is great to begin with

the venthyr conduit, amazing, but the ability itself is worthless

with current tuning, venthyr with "max" (datamined at level 15), is still behind necro

not by much

it turns into the second best single target actually

but before that, necro is just so overbearingly strong

[normal olive]

wtf

Whopperster you okay?

[balmy condor]

wdym

[normal olive]

i actually look at my raid for 1 minute and you spam the discord

[frigid kestrel]

That’s what I wanted to know, how close necro (maxed) and ven (maxed) was. I was under the false impression that Ven beat out Nec at max ranks.

[balmy condor]

yeah

venthyr maxed vs necro maxed is ~9% difference

in favor of necro

[frigid kestrel]

Hate to see it

I was rooting for that Venthyr to beat it out tbh

[normal olive]

Night Fae > All

[grizzled jay]

well Bone Spike is bugged so don't look too much into it

[sweet bane]

I will play rogue with sl but didn't since Wotlk..wanted to practice a bit/get into it before release. Have one at ilvl 445 and planned running a bit of low-key m+ which spec should I play?

[tender folio]

Dont tell me we are reroling sub in Shadowlands QQ

[normal olive]

We all rerolling to dh

[tender folio]

So if we choose Necrolords we have to spend most of our time there ?

Zone is ugly AF

[normal olive]

no u

[delicate bone]

Yes, and rogues are pretty angels I guess

[little root]

[normal olive]

[frigid kestrel]

bout to be the most bomb Sin Night Fae in life.

Dont be the meta, make the meta

[balmy condor]

@sweet bane whatever you prefer tbh

[winged basin]

I have to talk to you guys about this cause I think my guild master is damaged

[balmy condor]

not this channel

[winged basin]

are secondary stats not going to matter next xpac? you are just gonna roll with whatever the fuck is higher ilvl?

wat

[balmy condor]

oh

well that question

is fine

[loud light]

lol

[balmy condor]

stats will still matter

we're probably not going to see much change

there's just gonna be soft breakpoints

[winged basin]

Stats are TOTALLY going to matter still. "His beta tester friend" is filling his head with bullshit.

Secondary stats mattered before and they are always gonna matter as long as they exist

[balmy condor]

correct

[loud light]

I have to assume that thinking is coming from the secondary scaling DR stuff? if so we don't really expect to reach the levels of secondaries where that will be the major factor in gearing

[balmy condor]

yeah

the major DR happening on secondary stats is pretty deep into gearing

[loud light]

corruption would do it but I don't think they're going to repeat that mistake

[balmy condor]

we actually probably won't see the main effects of it until like 3rd raid

like major

[winged basin]

thank you for that reassurance. This guy left main raid team to go raid with another group, cause hes too afraid to sit people who suck.

[verbal mantle]

[plain thistle]

but whispyr, the important question is.... can we reach 34% crit with DR?

[balmy condor]

I will cut you

[plain thistle]

[slim estuary]

Welcome back Whispyr. Had your 30 min nap?

[balmy condor]

it was an hour

[slim estuary]

So since the bis rogue spec for next raid might come down to heroic tuning, what leggo is everyone planning to pick up first?

[balmy condor]

celerity atm

I'm probably playing sin regardless though

so if dashing doesn't get nerfed

we dashing

[slim estuary]

not the crit shoulders?

[frail jungle]

probably taking Dashing as well.

[balmy condor]

crit shoulders aren't that good

[grave scroll]

so. Ass is good? Good is Ass? Eat more Ass?

[balmy condor]

ass is fine in raids

[grave scroll]

coo thats all i wanna hear

[slim estuary]

But sub looks to be fotm

[delicate bone]

Can’t tell either without tuning

[surreal solar]

if Dashing gets Bashed, im going for Zoldyck

[winter moss]

if when Dashing gets Bashed, im going for Zoldyck

[normal olive]

ass is fine in raids
@balmy condor

got it boss

[sterile jackal]

btw any1 considered going for more mastery/poison dmg oriented sin? I'd prefer that over boring haste prio

[winter moss]

member legion where he had 200% mastery?

[sterile jackal]

yea

[winter moss]

exactly

we are nowhere near that poison dmg numbers would overtake that

• in legion bleeds were not hasted

which rendered haste useless

[timid cloud]

We also had different damage %’s on Poison Bomb, since it did insane damage back then baseline.

[sterile jackal]

i dont mind hasting the bleeds, but i'd like to play more into spec fantasy, which are posions

[low girder]

Haste has so many interactions now it's unlikely to ever not be strong af on ST. Maybe in some sort of m+ build with the poison conduits later.

[sterile jackal]

yass, PB was nuts

[timid cloud]

We’ll probably get more class fantasy in Shadowlands, but the dream is dead right now, unfortunately.

[winter moss]

the transition to bfa and hasting the poison and bleeds kinda put the poison build on the sideline

[sterile jackal]

at least blindside seems good

[winter moss]

as mata said it opened up so many interactions and tbh blizz doesnt give a rats ass about class fantasy

[normal olive]

i like high haste

makes us stab shit faster

[low girder]

It just double dips so hard on so many things

[timid cloud]

They’d care if it went hand in hand with class interactions / opening up the class variety. But that ain’t happening. So we’re stuck with what we have right now.

[sterile jackal]

i got like 55% of haste on bfa, pretty cool.

[winter moss]

and the fact that we use CT on st

well it kinda screams that the ahste build is bonkers

[timid cloud]

At least we don’t have to use LEGGO hidden blade cloak for single target. But it’s close.

[winter moss]

member when in aotc fok overtook mut as generator

[low girder]

That conduit bug was so funny

[winter moss]

AOTB

[timid cloud]

Free me from this pain.

[low girder]

I'm already calling them conduits

Relic*

[winter moss]

well it is the same

really

[low girder]

Yeah lol

[timid cloud]

Yeah.

[winter moss]

just where you stick them

we used to stick them into weapons now we stick them into our soulbinds a....

lets not go there

[timid cloud]

Hey. I mean, it’s just like the shadow & lightforge from Antorus. Good stuff. Rip artifact traits though, some of them were banger.

[winter moss]

whhat was that poinson buff called

from the sin artifact weapon

[golden radish]

Kingslayer?

[timid cloud]

Kingsbane.

[golden radish]

okay, I was close 😄

[winter moss]

lemme look

gimme 2 mins

[low girder]

Oh the actual buff

Uh

[winter moss]

SoT

surge of toxins

[low girder]

Yeah

[winter moss]

that shit made poison build big dick dps

and yeah the master alchemist relics

[timid cloud]

The Classico.

[winter moss]

[timid cloud]

I haven’t played Rogue on beta, for all 3 specs right now, is the move really to go bone spike? I don’t know if I wanna waste time on Sub just for it to get gutted last second, like Demo did from Legion to BFA. Were it looks so good then they nerfed it before live came out.

[sterile jackal]

tbh i have necro esthetics, might go for kyrian sin and pray for buffs or adjustments

hate*

[winter moss]

Okay imma say this once. Wait for balancing and we move from there yes? At this exact moment the look forward says us that necro is dps wise the best option, but this is subject to CHANGE

[timid cloud]

Yeah, I was just trying to see what I should test out when I play on it. Since Shadowlands is still quite a fair amount of time away & everything should be taken with a grain of salt since they’re making tuning passes quite literally almost every single day, as to what it seems like. (I.E. Boomkin)

[winter moss]

id rather recommend the vampires

kyrian is

[marble tartan]

Kyrian is for paladins

[sterile jackal]

vampires are edgy

and i'm a paladin among rogues

[winter moss]

i think you are confusing skyrim with wow

[sterile jackal]

ok, i played 10 min with echoing, it sucks

tbh sin dmg at the start sucks much

4 gazelas can kill me in no time unless i kite

[winter moss]

well

yes

[amber quail]

i lovoe venthyr back R2 😄 and hope to setup better this covenant for sin. also there are 2 nice power as flat mastery and 20%haste(2 different ventyr covenant ofc).
i'm feared by the tuning if happen too late cause the switch...them have 40days to tune-up covenant for all classes and spec.

[light pebble]

havent played in a few months, whats the go to raid talent setup?

[winter moss]

[pastel hatch]

Has there been blue posts yet for today's beta build? Or just data mining?

[low girder]

there hasn't been a beta build pushed yet

it was PTR

[pastel hatch]

Ahh okay cool. So the datamined stuff with the druid dots buff etc. was PTR?

[low girder]

yes

[pastel hatch]

Cool thanks! Praying for some rogue changes/info

[delicate bone]

im nervous tbh

idk what more changes people can take without having aneurysm's lmao

[pastel hatch]

Hahah i just hope i can go venthyr at the start without needing a conduit to be competitive

[steep obsidian]

it will be kind of funny to watch people lose their mind over pre patch tuning

if they have to do some tweaking to make sure people arent liek 1 shotting stuff

[drifting cloud]

I expect it the other way around

bosses unkillable for first day because they totally missed the balance without corr

[steep obsidian]

maybe

that the way it worked with the mop stat squish for wod and then they made it so every boss dies in 30 secs

[lime lintel]

During BFA pre-patch sin could kill almost anyone with Vendetta+TB into a Death from Above

people always freak out during pre-patch

[lean wing]

Assa only best choice maldraxxus?

[verbal mantle]

yes, for now

[normal olive]

Night Fae is the only viable choice

[minor pendant]

what stats should i go for if im fresh 120 on live ?

[normal olive]

I'd just try to get gear overall

if you just dinged

[balmy condor]

Yep yep

Try to just pump your iLvL

From there just send it on haste

[strange python]

Will haste still be best when corruptions is gone?

[balmy condor]

Yes

[strange python]

ur the real assasin guru whispyr 😮

[balmy condor]

I’m nothing special :)

[normal olive]

Oh great Shlepstyr share your great wisdom with us! What Covenant is the best to do open world pvp

[balmy condor]

[normal olive]

What

[balmy condor]

Warmode

[normal olive]

Open world pvp is the funniest shit

[vagrant mural]

what will be a good covenant for my sin and sub rogue?

[normal olive]

Burger King

[balmy condor]

I’ll tell you in a couple hours after wowhead comes up and we can see the covenant tuning

Read the pins tho

[vagrant mural]

is there a place i can look this stuff up myself so i can learn for my selg

[balmy condor]

Usually just pins

And maybe #tc-research

[surreal solar]

Celerity is now 100% outlaw, it only applies to Adren Rush

[vagrant mural]

kk thanks i prefer to learn instead of ask

[balmy condor]

If you hang around in the spec channels long enough you’ll learn too

Yeah I’m looking at it atm thistle

[normal olive]

If you have any questions Wobelster is the man to ask! If you have questions regarding openers i'm allways happy to help

[vagrant mural]

who has more energy sub or sin?

I want a faster play style this expac

[winter moss]

faster playstyle

[normal olive]

Prepatch Sub feels more fluid

[vagrant mural]

sorry more speed not energy

[winter moss]

after stat squish

[surreal solar]

meanwhile akaari looks more like a buff? since they already benefit from shadow dmg buffs, making it shadow > physical almost negates the nerf

[winter moss]

[normal olive]

is wowhead broken?

[winter moss]

probably

[surreal solar]

no, just stormed by literally everyone trying to get on

[normal olive]

any linkers?

[winter moss]

new beyta build an everyone is going rampage

[balmy condor]

Well

Sub Lego nerfs

[vagrant mural]

the new build is live

[surreal solar]

was it already shadow? if it wasn't its a secret buff

[balmy condor]

100% to 50%

Is not a buff

[surreal solar]

physical -> shadow

[balmy condor]

Doesn’t matter

[celest drift]

nothing much for sin on this build it seems

[normal olive]

Don't mind me just waiting to get onto the post

[surreal solar]

bone spike got changed (not sure how) sepsis got shifted from 25x pokes to 1 meat-jab

slaughter got a word change

[crimson palm]

spike's fracture was fixed

apparently

[balmy condor]

Cutting the damage in half and making it shadow isn’t neutral in any way

Yeah spike doesn’t fracture

Which we were sort of expecting

But weren’t sure

[surreal solar]

is that in line now? or did that just slam dunk it into the gutter?

[balmy condor]

Wdym in line

[surreal solar]

3k vs 2k/2k/1k

[balmy condor]

Oh

Uhhhh

[normal olive]

[winter moss]

[normal olive]

The diffrence wasn't 1k

[celest drift]

[balmy condor]

Quick maths says nerf

[winter moss]

tho armor bypass

sir

dont forget that

[normal olive]

There is a ez way to counter that tho

just unequip all your armor

[balmy condor]

Sepsis always did nature damage

[winter moss]

wait

[shy dust]

@balmy condor damage wise it might be a buff in the long term

given deeper daggers % shadow damage increase

[balmy condor]

Id have to check tags but I don’t think that applies outside of rogue abilities

[surreal solar]

slaughter's conduit looks to have been slapped

[fleet anchor]

There are a lot of random changes in this build

I'll probably type them up and put in tc-updates tonight

[normal olive]

"Activating your Night Fae class ability puts flowers at your feet for 1510 sec that increase your Haste by ~~5%~~10% while you stand with them."

[fleet anchor]

Sepsis was changed somewhat significantly

[surreal solar]

from 12.5 x25 to 78? but wasnt it only doing 1x of the 12.5s?

[balmy condor]

The dot itself also got buffed

[surreal solar]

40%

[balmy condor]

It was indeed doing 1x

But sims were simming it correctly

With the x25

[surreal solar]

night fae i might go then

[winter moss]

thanks koji

[normal olive]

Guys

[winter moss]

what navi

[normal olive]

Your healing spells and abilities have a chance to apply Niya's Invigorating Herbs, increasing the target's Haste by 5% for 10 sec.

Does this work with leeching poison

[balmy condor]

No

[surreal solar]

... that'd be broken

[normal olive]

[balmy condor]

Because leech isn’t a spell or ability

[winter moss]

[balmy condor]

Because it’s leech

[normal olive]

Lemme dream

[winter moss]

no

[normal olive]

i'm gonna be sad in my corner

[winter moss]

idfk

why would you slap the only conduit that made the covenant viable

imo

that r-word

[fleet anchor]

yes Sepsis was changed to be less back-loaded

But more tick damage

Which buffs the Conduit indirectly

They also added Sepsis to Shiv

[winter moss]

what

[normal olive]

what

[balmy condor]

ye

[fleet anchor]

It's Nature damage

[normal olive]

oh

[fleet anchor]

Reported it as a bug

Which is probably why they shifted some of the damage out of the final hit

Because that would be very powerful

[surreal solar]

does shiv do anything yet? besides 0 dmg and the debuff?

[winter moss]

was it actually intended to synergise with shiv

[balmy condor]

what else would you want it to do

[winter moss]

or did they just change that

[normal olive]

shiv doing dmg?

[surreal solar]

a wee bit of dmg? like it does in live

[balmy condor]

besides some damage and the debuff and applying empowered poison effects

[normal olive]

wht are you dreaming

[fleet anchor]

I mean Shiv says "increases your nature damage by 20%"

[normal olive]

[crimson palm]

@fleet anchor go pin akaari in sub channel PLEASE

[fleet anchor]

so I don't see why it wouldn't work 😄

[normal olive]

Assa got nothing changed?

[winter moss]

well knowing blizz "increases x dmg" doesnt always work with x-like things

[balmy condor]

doomblade got changed

which is kinda weird to me

[surreal solar]

wasn't doomblade already around 8 seconds tho?

i remember seli coming in and saying one of the bleeder legendaries was like that

[balmy condor]

Idk tbh

but 3 -> 8 seconds with the same damage

means its just strictly worse

if its already 8 then its a tooltip change and its still rubbish

lul

[normal olive]

I like the Night Fae changes

[winter moss]

alrighty

we becoming furry rogues

better reroll vulpera aswell

[normal olive]

Told you guys Night Fae is the go to

[crimson palm]

doomblade is a buff

since you get a window of 8s for emp envenoms

instead of 3s

[balmy condor]

I mean

maybe

[surreal solar]

didnt it also function like ignite where you could just pile dmg on

[balmy condor]

but if you're mutilating you're gonna have an envenom afterwards anyway

you're telling me you cast a mut, and won't envenom within 3 seconds?

[winter moss]

[urban surge]

If youre unlucky?

[balmy condor]

if you're unlucky then what

[inner pier]

is vulpera any better than other races for assa rogue in SL?

[crimson palm]

you dont have enough resources

for that

[balmy condor]

you cast another mutilate

and envenom

?

[winter moss]

@inner pier http://www.herodamage.com/rogue

[urban surge]

true

[crimson palm]

it depends, garrote is a pretty expensive dot to refresh

it removes pooling from the gameplay around it

you might want to mut gar env

[normal olive]

If you just ignore energy, it goes away and you don't have to bother with it anymore

[balmy condor]

why would I mut gar env over gar mut env

[crimson palm]

u still have to pool before tb windows